Hello all
I think that UML is an excellent tool for modelling Business Systems, but
the highly specialised
field of Business Process Modelling perhaps with a view to Business Process
Re-engineering
might benefit from Soft Systems Methods. There is a whole range of
diagramming tools in Soft Systems
which lend themselves to Business Process Modelling (including, but not
limited to Pretty Pictures).
There are even standard templates containing icons for what to include in
Pretty Pictures to
ease/simplify/standardise what is communicated.
Soft Systems Methods with their focus on people related issues, the
politics and dynamics of
a situation (system owners, actors etc...) provide a rich toolset from
which UML could be
enhanced if it is to be useful as a Business Process Modelling tool.
Best Regards.
Ayman
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Romuald Restout
<rrestout@recruits To: "'Lyalin, David S.'"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "'Harold van Garderen'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
oft.com> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: cc: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
owner-rose_forum@r Subject: RE: (RUP) RE: (ROSE) Process
Modelling?
ational.com
20-09-2002 16:02
Please respond to
Romuald Restout
David,
I am not aiming your particular email.
This thread deals with both issues at the same time, and more than often
mixes them.
This was just for outlining there are two issues.
Regarding Rose:
As I said, it is a powerful tool for people who master it. However it is
aimed primarily at software development.
There are a number of functions that are of no use for business modelers.
As a pure modeling tool, I even prefer Visio !
So I wouldn't ask to a business modeler to use Rose, especially regarding
the high learning curve associated.
Romuald
-----Original Message-----
From: Lyalin, David S. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 10:56 AM
To: Romuald Restout; 'Harold van Garderen'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; Lyalin, David S.
Subject: RE: (RUP) RE: (ROSE) Process Modelling?
Romuald,
1. Was it not clear from my posting that questions about UML-Business
Modeling and Tools (Rose/ReqPro) - Business modeling are two
different questions?
I placed them in different paragraphs separated by a blank line.
How it can NOT be viewed as a two different questions?! I am puzzled.
Anyway, I will start numbering the separate issues to avoid such
misunderstanding.
2. I think that Business Modelers should master a tool like Rose. You
would expect certain degree of sophistication from this type of
people :-)
Also, pretty often Business and System modeler is the same
person.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Romuald Restout [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 10:19 AM
To: 'Harold van Garderen'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: (RUP) RE: (ROSE) Process Modelling?
I agree with Harold on this point.
There are actually two subjects
1. Is UML useful for Business Modeling?
2. Is Rose tool suitable for business modelers?
Answer to 1st question is Yes. UML is suitable for business
modeling, while there is still a lot of room for improvement.
Answer to 2nd question is, IMO, No. Rose is a very powerful
tool, but far from being user-friendly.
Business Modelers are above all business experts, and while I
agree, they have to develop their modeling skills, they don't
need to master a software such as Rose.
Romuald Restout
Software Architect, Recruitsoft
P: 418.524.5665, x 232
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.recruitsoft.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Harold van Garderen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 10:00 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: (RUP) RE: (ROSE) Process Modelling?
At 09:25 20-9-2002 -0400, Lyalin, David S wrote:
>Your posting is an excellent illustration of the following
problem:
>Rational is very vague with Business Modeling issues, its
strategy
>with the subject (if any) unclear, its positioning of Rose and
ReqPro
>as business modeling tool is unconvincing.
>
>What do you mean saying that UML can be used to model business
process
>"in general"? Could you elaborate on "specific" situations
where UML
>can't be used for this purpose?
I find it strange that Lyalin keeps on confusing UML, the
notation language
with the tools like
Rose & ReqPro. But if you want my answer: yes, you can model
Business
Processes with UML,
although you can in principle do it, I wouldn't attempt to use
Rose/Repro
to build a full set of models
as proposed in Zachman's Enterprise Architecture Framework. I
find Rational
very clear on this,
they even explicitely refer to more in-depth business
modelling frameworks
that are not covered in the RUP process.
>Do you think that Rose and ReqPro "the best choice" of tools
for
>business modeling? Maybe Casewise or some of the "lots of
others tools"
>are better?
I think I didn;t see anyone saying this. Again see Zachman site
www.zifa.com for links to BP modeling tooling.
>Should we use UML for business modeling, or should we draw
"pictures and
>boxes" with PowerPoint?
This question does not deserve an anwer I'm afraid.
Harold van Garderen
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