David,
I am not
aiming your particular email.
This
thread deals with both issues at the same time, and more than often mixes them.
This was
just for outlining there are two issues.
Regarding
Rose:
As I said,
it is a powerful tool for people who master it. However it is aimed primarily at
software development.
There are
a number of functions that are of no use for business modelers.
As a pure
modeling tool, I even prefer Visio !
So I wouldn’t
ask to a business modeler to use Rose, especially regarding the high learning
curve associated.
Romuald
-----Original
Message-----
From: Lyalin, David S.
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002
10:56 AM
To: Romuald Restout; 'Harold van
Garderen'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]';
Lyalin, David S.
Subject: RE: (RUP) RE: (ROSE)
Process Modelling?
Romuald,
1. Was
it not clear from my posting that questions about UML-Business Modeling and
Tools (Rose/ReqPro) - Business modeling are two different questions?
I placed them in different paragraphs separated by a blank line. How it
can NOT be viewed as a two different questions?! I am puzzled.
Anyway, I will start numbering the separate issues to avoid such
misunderstanding.
2. I
think that Business Modelers should master a tool like Rose. You would expect
certain degree of sophistication from this type of people :-)
Also, pretty often Business and System modeler is the same person.
David
-----Original
Message-----
From: Romuald Restout [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002
10:19 AM
To: 'Harold van Garderen';
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: (RUP) RE: (ROSE)
Process Modelling?
I agree with Harold on this point.
There are actually two subjects
1. Is UML useful for Business Modeling?
2. Is Rose tool suitable for business modelers?
Answer to 1st question is Yes. UML is
suitable for business modeling, while there is still a lot of room for
improvement.
Answer to 2nd question is, IMO, No. Rose
is a very powerful tool, but far from being user-friendly.
Business Modelers are above all business experts, and while I
agree, they have to develop their modeling skills, they don't need to master a
software such as Rose.
Romuald Restout
Software Architect, Recruitsoft
P: 418.524.5665, x 232
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.recruitsoft.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Harold van Garderen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 10:00 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: (RUP) RE: (ROSE) Process Modelling?
At 09:25 20-9-2002 -0400, Lyalin, David S
wrote:
>Your posting is an excellent
illustration of the following problem:
>Rational is very vague with Business Modeling issues, its
strategy
>with the subject (if any) unclear, its positioning of Rose and
ReqPro
>as business modeling tool is unconvincing.
>
>What do you mean saying that UML can be used to model business
process
>"in general"? Could you elaborate on
"specific" situations where UML
>can't be used for this purpose?
I find it strange that Lyalin keeps on
confusing UML, the notation language
with the tools like
Rose & ReqPro. But if you want my answer: yes, you can model
Business
Processes with UML,
although you can in principle do it, I wouldn't attempt to use
Rose/Repro
to build a full set of models
as proposed in Zachman's Enterprise Architecture Framework. I find
Rational
very clear on this,
they even explicitely refer to more in-depth business
modelling frameworks
that are not covered in the RUP process.
>Do you think that Rose and ReqPro
"the best choice" of tools for
>business modeling? Maybe Casewise or some of the "lots of
others tools"
>are better?
I think I didn;t see anyone saying this.
Again see Zachman site
www.zifa.com for links to BP modeling tooling.
>Should we use UML for business
modeling, or should we draw "pictures and
>boxes" with PowerPoint?
This question does not deserve an anwer
I'm afraid.
Harold van Garderen
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
dr. Harold F. van Garderen
Group Research and Technology
Oc� Technologies B.V.
R&D, building 2S, room 167
St. Urbanusweg 43, Venlo, The Netherlands
P.O. Box 101, 5900 MA, Venlo, The Netherlands
tel. +31 77 359 2446
fax. +31 77 359 5471
email. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The content of this email is an expression of a personal opinion
and
does not in any way represent an official Oc� opinion
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
*********************************************************************************
* RUP Forum is a public venue for discussions about the
* Rational Unified Process (RUP).
*
* For RUP support materials, process Plug-Ins, tutorials,
whitepapers,
* a biweekly column, Rational University training courses, and more,
* please visit the Rational Developer Network (available to
Rational
* customers) at: http://www.rational.net.
*
* For technical support of RUP, RPW, Rose or any other Rational
* product, please visit: http://www.rational.com/support
*
* For other discussion groups, such as Rose and UML, please
* sign up at: http://www.rational.com/support/usergroups/index.jsp
*
* To reply to a posting, please "Reply to all" or send
* To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
*
* Admin.Subscription Requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
*
* Other Requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
*
* To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email:
*
* To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
* Subject:<BLANK>
* Body: unsubscribe rup_forum
*
****************************************************************************
