Ed, let me disagree with you and many others a bit over the hi-rail/AF
thing. When I was a lot younger I bought a little paper back book
published by Gilbert written by Marshall McClintock (hope I spelled that
right). The book deals with taking stock AF trains and talks about
building a very nice little layout. In the book the term Hi-rail is
mentioned in reference to AF trains. I think it would be simpler if we
just eliminate the AF/tinplate tags from our modeling vocabularies. I
suggest going with scale and hi-rail.
Over the years I have visited or watched videos of many layouts
that are tagged AF--however many of them are using products from our
other manufacturers so by defination are not really AF layouts anymore.
Face it most of the good AF stuff is being designated as a collection
and will reside on the shelves around the room and for all practical
purposes are no longer part of an operating layout. Face it most guys
want to make a fortune selling their 'new in the box' stuff rather than
trains that have been run.
Although our manufacturers probably won't compare production runs,
I would bet that DesPlains, SHS and AM combined sell a lot more stuff
than Lionel/AF. We also know that most of non Lionel stuff is basically
'scale' with larger flanged wheels simply making it Hi-Rail. In fact if
you take the new Lionel/AF Mikado you will find it a very well detailed
Hi-Rail engine. Additionally you will find even the old '50's stuff
compares favorably to the HO stuff that was made at the time (our AF had
cast on detail and a fair amount of HO does too). I've never heard a HO
modeler say their layout was a Mantua layout, or a Roundhouse layout!
This switch in product lines has also happened in Zero scale, to where
the term Lionel layout really doesn't apply to a true operating layout.
Most of those layouts have stuff from Weaver, MTH and others.
I see no reason to confuse the issue with definations that apply to
a different time (50 years ago) when model railroading was two major
manufacturers selling trainsets to every kid on the block. In today's
world I think we can say that we can include all our Scale into two
groups (scale and hi-rail) with a very fuzzy line between the two (and
this includes narrow gauge and any of the non-US type modelers).
Bob Werre
ed_loizeaux wrote:
> --- In [email protected] <mailto:S-Scale%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Thomas Stoltz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > What is what? To me, it is all a question of your rail choice,
>
> I suppose there are a thousand opinions out there, but in my mind it
> really is very simple. If the track and wheels meet the NASG's
> scale specifications, then you are operating a "scale" layout. If
> the track and wheels and couplers are made by American Flyer or
> Lionel, then you are operating an "American Flyer" layout or
> a "Flyonel" layout depending on your sense of humor. All else,
> including the so-called AF-compatible products, fall into that never-
> never land called "hi-rail" which is a nickname for "high" rail
> because the rail is larger than true scale rail. That is the simple
> explanation -- at least according to my dictionary -- which is
> probably quite different from the dictionary in someone else's
> library.
>
>
> Further, a hi-rail layout should, in theory, have at least one of
> the three key items -- wheels, track and couplers -- be "more
> realistic" (whatever that means) than a pure AF layout in order to
> be considered a genuine hi-rail layout. After all, the only reason
> that hi-rail exists is because there are many folks who desire
> greater realism than that offered by American Flyer. If none of the
> three key items are more realistic than AF, than it is probably an
> AF layout.
>
>
> I would agree with the scenery and accessories part, but I would
> disagree with the coupler aspect. See comments above. Scale rails
> and scale wheels and AF couplers would not, in my opinion,
> constitute an operating scale layout. Neither would it be an AF
> layout. Thus, this hypothetical situation should properly be
> categorized as a hi-rail layout.
>
> > If you use scale rail and run brass engines on a
> > plywood tabletop with ACG accessories, aren't you still running
> scale?
>
>
> NASG has defined scale wheels and scale track very well. Not being
> an AF or hi-rail guy, I don't know about the other areas of interest.
>
>
>
> This is a difficult arena since NASG has no way to enforce it's AF
> standards on large corporations like Lionel or the former K-Line.
> Hi-rail enthusiasts vary all over the map and, in my opinion,
> achieving a group agreement on standards would be almost
> impossible. Some hi-rail guys only change the couplers, others
> change only the track, others change everything. Everyone has their
> own ideas about what is important. I tend to think this is akin to
> tilting windmills and herding cats.
>
> > I have my ideas, but I'll wait to here yours.
> > Tom Stoltz
>
> OK, now it its your turn.
>
> Have fun with this......Cheers...Ed L.
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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