50 was a heavyweight old enough to have wood collision posts. I wish I could remember the private name of a car that I remember was said to be Mount Doane in the earlier life. It was a lighter green and white/silver, and had yellow trim stripes on the truck sideframes, it showed up here in the 70's at one time. Other than that I am totally clueless. DJE
----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Baker To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:25 PM Subject: RE: {S-Scale List} Streamlined, Turtle Back and Harriman roofs for AM heavy weight passenger cars Dave, This is getting interesting: If #50 had a turtle-backed roof, then I assume it was a heavyweight car. Odd that KCS would add modern trucks to it, six-wheel trucks, I assume, or no? By the way, you might know where the KCS operated the former 10-section Pullman club lounges, numbered #200 and #201 on the KCS. From 1932 or so up through May 10, 1949, these two Pullman club lounges operated on the Twin City-Omaha/Omaha-Twin City night trains of the Chicago Great Western. They were of course named Pullmans, "Mount Mansfield" and Mount Doane". The CGW also operated 10-section club lounges between the Twin Cities and KC and return, so it is possible that the two cars occasionally showed up on the CGW "Mill Cities Limited" between the two aforementioned end points, but they generally appeared on the TC/Omaha "Nebraska Limited" and "Twin City Limited". I just wondered in what operation the KCS used the cars. I suspect that they were used as parlor dining cars or parlor club lounges between Shreveport and Port Arthur on Trains #15 and #16 but am not at all certain. They were repainted in the KCS colors, and years ago I saw one of them in Houston, Texas, when I lived there. Tom _____ From: [email protected] on behalf of David Engle Sent: Thu 3/10/2011 3:39 PM To: [email protected] Cc: Johnson, Tom Subject: Re: {S-Scale List} Streamlined, Turtle Back and Harriman roofs for AM heavy weight passenger cars Yes on 6, but they didn't bother to letter it. 50 was taken off its trucks, the carbody was scrapped by Intercon at Riverside, Mo., and the modern trucks sold to a private car owner in NJ, prior to ~1980. Also a correction, 6 went to a developer in connection with the restoration of the KCT roundhouse on Southwest Boulevard, have not seen it for at least 10 years. DJE' ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Baker To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:15 PM Subject: RE: {S-Scale List} Streamlined, Turtle Back and Harriman roofs for AM heavy weight passenger cars Dave, I'm told that #6 still does exist and has been curiously repainted in the KCS passenger car scheme, a livery it never had when it was in active service. Any possibility of getting a photo of diner-lounge #50? Tom _____ From: [email protected] on behalf of David Engle Sent: Thu 3/10/2011 10:39 AM To: [email protected] Cc: Johnson, Tom Subject: Re: {S-Scale List} Streamlined, Turtle Back and Harriman roofs for AM heavy weight passenger cars KCS 50 was a diner-lounge that was also re-roofed. Both had final owner SHRHS-KCRM, 6 may still exist. DJE ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Baker To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 8:08 AM Subject: RE: {S-Scale List} Streamlined, Turtle Back and Harriman roofs for AM heavy weight passenger cars Frisco modernized many of its coaches with the turntle-back roof. About 1954 many of the Chicago Great Western baggage cars and mial-baggage cars came from its Oelwein shops with turtle-backed roofs. I do not recall seeing any turtle-backed roofs on cars from the GN, NP, CB&Q, C&NW, M&StL, RI, and the KCS had ONE turtle-backed roof car--a mail-baggage/express car #6 that had been worked over by the CGW and given the turtle-backed roof and painted in CGW solid maroon, a color it retained durings its service on the KCS. The car itself had come from the MKT as car #225. Tom _____ From: [email protected] on behalf of Bob McCarthy Sent: Thu 3/10/2011 6:51 AM To: [email protected] Subject: {S-Scale List} Streamlined, Turtle Back and Harriman roofs for AM heavy weight passenger cars Bill, The roofs of heavy weight cars began receiving air conditioning ducts in the 1930's according to what I have read. With the advent of streamlined passenger cars various efforts were made to upgrade heavy weight cars. Railroads either applied the streamline roofs or turtle back type to help with the appearance in older cars or completely rebuilt them with sealed windows and made everything look like their new modern cars. Rebuilt cars were common in the SE on the ACL, CofGa, NC&STL, SAL and others. Am certain that others on this list can identify railroads in other parts of the country which did similar modifications.. The only easy way to spot these cars at a glance was by noting the trucks they road upon were heavy weight trucks. Bob McCarthy --- On Thu, 3/10/11, Bill Rigsby <[email protected]> wrote: From: Bill Rigsby <[email protected]> Subject: Re: {S-Scale List} Streamlined, Turtle Back and Harriman roofs for AM heavy weight passenger cars To: [email protected] Date: Thursday, March 10, 2011, 8:31 AM Bob, When or what era were the moderized roof placed on Heavyweight cars? Bill --- On Wed, 3/9/11, Bob McCarthy <[email protected]> wrote: From: Bob McCarthy <[email protected]> Subject: {S-Scale List} Streamlined, Turtle Back and Harriman roofs for AM heavy weight passenger cars To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, March 9, 2011, 2:29 PM Howdy, Dick's comments are appreciated. The first roofs we did will fit anmy AM Heavy Weight passenger car. They will provide a low streamliner roof or the 'Turtle Back' roof for non modernized AM heavy weight passenger cars. We are also working on creating a cast HARRIMAN roof sized to fit the AM heavy weight cars. Many of you have asked about the newest roofs. Hope to have them ready by the convention in July. Let me know whether you want rivet or welded when you replay off site. Thanks, Bob McCarthy --- On Sun, 3/6/11, Richard Karnes <[email protected]> wrote: From: Richard Karnes <[email protected]> Subject: {S-Scale List} Re:Streamlined roofs To: [email protected] Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 6:53 PM All -- Sometimes I am amazed by the depth of knowledge of people on this e-list, and sometimes I am amazed by the lack thereof. This is a case of the latter... At the 2009 NASG Convention in St. Louis, Bob McCarthy (The Supply Car) showed off new basswood passenger-car roof sections. There are two: a low arch and a higher arch (for most streamlined cars). These were highlighted (text and photos) in my "S-Curves" column in the Feb. 2010 issue of "Model Railroad News." Bob has also talked about them here on this e-list. 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