Roy, I agree about a healthy debate - as long it remains a debate and not an argument!
--- In [email protected], "Roy" <royhoffman@...> wrote: > > That 13% figure is probably an accurate reflection of just how many pure scalers exist. If the NASG membership is about 1500, it would mean that there are about 195 scalers. That's not a whole lot when you consider how many total model railroaders there are. When you hold it against the 18,000 NMRA members, the percentage becomes 2.34%. That's about what you get when you read the results of the various polls that are conducted. Dead right, but focussing on this is, in my opinion, where it is going wrong. Focus on the numbers, the likely market, etc, and not the percentage. 13% of S is better than 2.3% of NMRA, if you want to use them - and that suggests that products which are not also useful for the "scale" market mean that a manufacturer has cut himself off from 1/8 of his market. I produce and use statistics professionally, and believe me, percentages are only useful when the "base" quantity is known, and even then I am always wary. I will, yet again, talk about my experience in the UK, which includes 7 years spent in two committee posts of the S Scale Model Railway Society. Almost of all of us follow what would be called "Proto:64" in North America, because we do not have the legacy of AF, and the move from what was quite close to "scale" to proto:64 started back in 64, when there was very little S scale in the UK. Quite simply, there is no real alternative, and there are no problems with it, either. Membership is just over a hundred, of which I would say maybe 10 are very active, with another 10 fairly active, and another 10-20 dabbling in S as well as other scales. Despite the small numbers, the scale flourishes, because it has the one unifying Society, which is the source of parts. Yes, parts. For the most part, not kits, and not RTR. With a few exceptions which arose because a major supplier of finescale components happened to model in S for his own modelling, all of these parts have come about through the efforts of a few members. Etchings are usually re-scaled from other scales (sometimes with modifications - I have done genuine cut and past using glue and re-sized colour photocopies cut about) but castings are produced from patterns made by individual members who needed a reasonable number of items themselves, and it was obvious that other people would need them, too, so the SSMRS took over the production side of things. Exact comparisons are difficult, as the prototypes are different, but the equivalent parts would be truck wheels, truck and brake gear castings, etc. There is no NMRA in the UK: we don't work like that over here as we don't have a federal union of self-governing states, which causes other problems. (There was a self-styled "British Railway Modelling Standards Bureau" but the trade ignored their recommendations, and for many years there were major incompatibilities between different manufacturers. Individual modellers largely ignored them!) It also means we have lots of specialist societies, sometimes competing with each other (as in the primary, 4mm scale UK market, with a 00 gauge association, and then the EM Gauge and ScaleFour Societies, both claiming to cater for all 4mm scale modellers!) and sometimes complimentary - two 0 "scale" (7mm to one foot) societies, the Gauge 0 Guild (32mm gauge) and the Scale 7 Group (33mm gauge, i.e. proto:43.5). >The 13% is probably close to the ratio of scale vs highrail sales at AM and formerly SHS. When you hold it against the 18,000 NMRA members, the percentage becomes 2.34%. That's about what you get when you read the results of the various polls that are conducted. Which means that the NMRA, catering for the majority of its membership, will not pay a great deal of attention to the "scale" side of S, nor indeed to S scale itself. Why should it? If, say, 87% of its members model in 1:87 scale (see what I did there?) then 87% of its resources will rightly and fairly be directed towards that part of its membership. Imagine if you were the NMRA, and that there was also an NASG in existence to support 1:64 modelling. Would you not leave most decisions to the NASG, which is focussed on that single scale? It makes perfect sense so to do. I have no idea how active the NASG is in such matters as defining standards in conjunction with the NMRA (I suspect they more or less leave them to it) but it is one area where active dialogue would be beneficial. I have to be honest and say that, as an outsider, I am not sure what the NASG does do, but that may be because a lot goes on behind the scenes, and also because, as I said, I am an outsider. (But with so little apparent activity, why would I join? I would get no social benefits, not being in the USA.) People will come into S for one (or more) of three major reasons: 1) Childhood memories of AF (a decreasing number, I would guess); 2) They like the size (nearly everyone does); 3) They are up for the challenge of something different (and almost certainly will be at the "scale" if not P:64 end of the market). The first group need items compatible with their AF range. The second want a reasonable variety of things to buy, and possibly are prepared to do some modelling, too - the old PRS kits were ideal for this! The latter want what there is to be as accurate as possible, but accept having to do things like fit new wheels/trucks/pilots/couplers, as well as make modification for the sake of variety. There is already a growing "after-market" for these, and it will continue to grow. I reckon the old SHS range was perfectly pitched - it accommodated all parts of the spectrum: compatible with AF, yet correctly proportioned and capable of conversion and modification, and appealing to the "scale" modeller. AM in my experience requires a little more work to refine some of the finer details, but also scores highly for serving all parts of the market. If MTH pick up where SHS left off, then we are all in for a treat. If they don't, then they will have cut themselves off from 1/8 of the current market, but more importantly a market which is the most likely to grow. I can't see them doing that, but let's give them a chance. >From my (outside) perspective, I think it would be beneficial to S Scale in North America for the efforts of the NASG to be more visible, and for some clearer understanding of how they can (and hopefully do) interlink with the NMRA on behalf of 1:64 railway modelling, but let's be positive about this: like H0, but unlike 0 scale in the USA and 00 scale in the UK, we have a common scale and (AF apart) a common, accurate (and AF is pretty close!) track gauge. If models are made to scale, then those who wish to fit P:64 wheels will be happy, and everyone else will be, too. > I for one am happy to see all these positive opinions being expressed. I agree, as long as the opinions are positive. >This thread has been long overdue in my humble opinion. Don't be humble about your opinion, Roy: it is as valid as everyone and anyone else's. (S0rry - pet hate about that phrase - if an opinion is humble, would it be uttered?) S scale is in a great place to be a massively broad church: let's keep it that way. Simon Dunkley PS - Feedback from job interviews is often that I could talk for England, and win an Olympic Gold. You'd never guess that, would you?
