On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 11:16 AM John H Palmieri <[email protected]> wrote: > > Maybe this is naive, but if you're testing a change from the old situation, > where Python 3.13 was not allowed, to now allowing it, I might imagine that > you would test it on standard supported platforms, like OS X with Python 3.13 > installed via homebrew. We should back out the change until it's implemented > correctly.
There is always a Mac out there on which for some reason Sage doesn't install, actually, it always was like this. Shouldn't we expect an expert user like you, who noticed an issue to actively debug it and possibly fix, rather than wait for someone to fix it? As I said, there is a workaround to avoid this issue, but you complain that this workaround is not what "is expected", demand rolling something back, while not telling why it doesn't work for you without it. Maybe it's a problem on your computer only. The less we rely on flaky vendored packages, the less likely breakages occur. As the number of packages we vendor approaches 500, it's a Herculean task to make sure they all work. That's why I keep saying Homebrew to Mac users. Dima > > > On Tuesday, February 25, 2025 at 6:46:41 AM UTC-8 Dima Pasechnik wrote: >> >> >> >> On 24 February 2025 23:52:36 GMT-06:00, John H Palmieri >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >Sage should work out of the box without "--enable-system-site-packages". >> >> >> The box has become so heavy that one needs a forklift to do anything with it >> :-) >> >> >> > If >> >it doesn't, that's a bug in Sage. How about we don't allow Python 3.13 if >> >it's broken? Why wasn't this caught in testing? >> >> well, Sage with Python 3.13 works on Linux, >> and is default on some. >> >> It appears that there are dozens of macOS/apple toolchain/apple hardware >> combos, and each of them has its very own set of bugs, misfeatures, multiple >> dodgy Python installs, etc. >> >> We can't possibly test for all of them. >> >> And please don't force on Sage developers the need to dig up and reproduce >> solutions by Homebrew, which has 10 times more developers and nontrivial >> funding, solutions which are already there. >> >> What's wrong with using the flag above, if it works? >> >> I hope William S. forgives me if I quote his up to date opinion on Macs: >> >> ----- >> For me, Macs are reasonable as basically "Chromebooks" that can also >> run Linux VM's pretty well and keep track of photos and video. Beyond >> that it's extremely painful, and I vastly prefer Linux for all things >> dev/server/remote. >> ----- >> >> My opinion is similar - except that the only use of Mac I have is to cause >> myself extreme pain by trying to fix never ending macOS - specific >> issues. >> >> On macOS, either we embrace Homebrew and use it to get external >> dependencies, or we use Conda. Current "build everything from ground up" has >> become next to impossible in any reliable way. >> >> >> Dima >> >> >> > >> > >> >On Monday, February 24, 2025 at 7:34:13 PM UTC-8 Dima Pasechnik wrote: >> > >> >> On Mon, Feb 24, 2025 at 5:44 PM John H Palmieri <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > On OS X 15.3.1 with many homebrew packages installed, including both >> >> Python 3.12 and Python 3.13: >> >> > >> >> > - if I use Python 3.13, `pillow` and `cffi` fail to build. (I used >> >> "./configure", and I also tried after applying the patch from #39570) >> >> >> >> how about using installing pillow and cffi in Homebrew, and doing >> >> >> >> ./configure --enable-system-site-packages >> >> >> >> This should pick them from Homebrew. (If it doesn't it's a Sage bug I >> >> suppose) >> >> >> >> Frankly speaking I am less than excited to try to figure out what goes >> >> wrong in sdh_pip_install >> >> in this case. Homebrew can do it... >> >> >> >> > - if I use Python 3.12, then `pillow` and `cffi` and indeed everything >> >> builds successfully. (I used "./configure --with-python=`which >> >> python3.12`") >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Friday, February 21, 2025 at 3:40:17 PM UTC-8 Volker Braun wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> As always, you can get the latest beta version from the "develop" git >> >> branch. Alternatively, the self-contained source tarball is at >> >> http://www.sagemath.org/download-latest.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 9cd86e9596a (tag: 10.6.beta7, github/develop) Updated SageMath version >> >> to 10.6.beta7 >> >> >> c2766d1f625 gh-39541: Remove dead mailing lists. >> >> >> 54951498178 gh-39536: Fix a nonfunctional long time doctest tag >> >> >> 5289298248a gh-39533: build/pkgs: update eclib to version 20250122 >> >> >> 7420a272382 gh-39530: Improvement to flint_autogen reader >> >> >> cee1e2b52f9 gh-39527: Test on CI that update-meson is properly ran >> >> >> a007379b910 gh-39523: multi polynomial element/repr >> >> >> 850493472d5 gh-39521: rename also set-like species >> >> >> bd626efc02f gh-39518: line_graph for multigraphs >> >> >> 72c6188116a gh-39513: Show test failures of ci-meson as annotations >> >> >> 4f4c1203415 gh-39510: add of the function rank_support_of_vector >> >> >> 2af3de6fa6e gh-39509: Add a doctest for >> >> HomsetsCategory._make_named_class_key >> >> >> d8b7cdfcecb gh-39508: Fix some typo >> >> >> b567299fbbb gh-39506: New algorithm for cuts of a Poset >> >> >> 88672d71a29 gh-39505: Improve handling of strings supplied as matrix >> >> entries >> >> >> 935232df552 gh-39504: Implement im_gens in the class fraction_field_FpT >> >> >> a01815fda00 gh-39499: Improve sage_getfile by looking at __init__ >> >> >> b7da8f23c43 gh-39498: Apply sort and filter of walk_packages >> >> consistently >> >> >> 3500f616037 gh-39497: moving random_element to category of rings >> >> >> e368fa71812 gh-39496: Add deformation cones and checking for regularity >> >> for Point Configurations and normal fans of Polyhedra >> >> >> 8978ff83f52 gh-39495: Add documentation of Gabidulin codes in the >> >> reference manual >> >> >> 98eec5d86fe gh-39494: Fix more doctests in meson_editable install >> >> >> cfbaaf16be2 gh-39491: fixing doctests failures in misc/latex*.py >> >> >> a2737325c19 gh-39489: fix several oeis related doctests >> >> >> 8a44c7365b7 gh-39488: Fix issue on matrix construction over integer mod >> >> ring for large coefficients >> >> >> 78a3eede92c gh-39487: Improvement of the rendering of the documentation >> >> in polynomial sequence >> >> >> 34b7f9050fb gh-39486: Finish changing Rational's round method default >> >> rounding to even >> >> >> 04afcf71552 gh-39485: Implement conversion from laurent series to >> >> rational function field >> >> >> ae158663847 gh-39482: fix one typo >> >> >> 83f7d065286 gh-39481: Fixed issue in list_plot where it assumed data >> >> had been enumerated when it might not have been >> >> >> 8e204dde3b3 gh-39479: Fixed crash when exp(0) of p-adic numbers is >> >> called >> >> >> 11ee7ca4e19 gh-39477: typing and details in tableaux files >> >> >> c61e562de76 gh-39476: typing annotation for gens method in rings and >> >> groups (pyx files) >> >> >> 85ce297ff2c gh-39474: convert gens method in modular to return tuple >> >> >> c732c6552e4 gh-39473: add tuple typing to gens methods in algebras >> >> >> 556d5f0eb80 gh-39466: remove some deprecations in groups >> >> >> c22e48480c3 gh-39456: Trivial simplifications for arccos >> >> >> 68744be391e gh-39454: remove deprecated stuff in permutation.py >> >> >> 784ff00867a gh-39449: Magma padics >> >> >> 897e722c74e gh-39423: Use import_module instead of find_spec >> >> >> 870aba20786 gh-39397: details in braid groups >> >> >> e6975bebe80 gh-39381: Allow system python 3.13 >> >> >> b57e33797cf gh-39366: Add documentation to LaurentSeries point to >> >> accessors >> >> >> 357f95e088c gh-39365: Allow coercion from Frac(QQ[x]) to >> >> LaurentSeriesRing(QQ) >> >> >> 041336691f6 gh-39266: add parameter immutable to generators in >> >> `sage/graphs/digraph_generators.py` (part 2) >> >> >> e0806107d60 gh-39251: Require Python 3.11 or newer; remove outdated >> >> workarounds >> >> >> ac8406fba6a gh-39248: introduce new apozeta polynomial for posets >> >> >> 10edc54de0a gh-39215: Class polynomial for Drinfeld modules >> >> >> 2e0d6d201bf gh-39214: Add keyword prec for exponential and logarithm of >> >> Drinfeld modules >> >> >> b5c26156430 gh-39212: Refactor period lattice >> >> >> d0e72a61433 gh-39128: Add note about makeflags and ninja parallelism >> >> >> 067ebbd0c8c gh-39093: Improve hack used in debug_options >> >> >> a89c57b64f8 gh-39092: Remove erroneous member declaration in >> >> farey_symbol >> >> >> cc231ef0353 gh-39061: Fix some errors in documentation of cachefunc >> >> >> f0581cbe397 gh-39025: Add reseed_rng option to p_iter_fork >> >> >> 290b261bc4f gh-38986: Allow CRT_list() to be called with one argument >> >> >> 0a278fc918e gh-38824: Turn some doctests in `ell_rational_field.py` >> >> into long tests >> >> >> c43cd23ee83 gh-38650: Add support for pseudomorphisms >> >> >> 6e82ee51eb9 gh-38108: Implicit function solver for lazy series >> >> >> 42d00ed27b3 gh-37173: Implemented `.ramified_places` and modified >> >> further methods to extend quaternion algebra functionality to number >> >> fields >> >> >> 8d7107c1aab gh-37158: use Parent in quotient rings too >> >> >> 766c7a0c5b8 (tag: 10.6.beta6) Updated SageMath version to 10.6.beta6 >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups "sage-release" group. >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> >> an email to [email protected]. >> >> > To view this discussion visit >> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-release/aa27984d-e9b6-4eb4-b4a1-a422672e26a6n%40googlegroups.com >> >> . >> >> >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-release" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-release/f74cd9ef-3ec4-42dc-8ae4-ad8654490f9en%40googlegroups.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-release" group. 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