What about just checking the return status of nm piped to grep, as we were
just doing?  (Once you know which function you need to look for).

- Marc

On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 11:14 AM Dima Pasechnik <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 10:44 AM Marc Culler <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > The code that is rejecting openblas 0.3.29 appears to be in
> build/pkgs/openblas/spkgconfigure.m4.
> >
> > That file includes tests for the existence of the symbol dgeqrf_ for the
> purpose of deciding whether a version of openblas also provides lapack.
> According to github blame, that seems to have been Dima's idea 5 or 6 years
> ago.  Given that LAPACK appears so many times when searching for dgeqfr in
> the output of nm, I would guess that version 0.3.29 does in fact provide
> lapack.  But the tests in that m4 file need to be revised.
>
> yes, right, that's exactly what I'm doing now. However, the test is
> very tricky and complicated, as
> a standard way to check that a Fortran function is available is to call
> Fortran
> (something what autoconf macro AC_FC_FUNC would do)
> Instead, the test is done with C++, is much more complicated, and
> fails on macOS arm64 for reasons
> not yet known to me.
>
> I'm trying to see if at least AC_FC_FUNC can do the job, in the
> presence of gfortran...
>
> Dima
>
> >
> > - Marc
> >
> > On Wednesday, February 26, 2025 at 7:45:36 AM UTC-6 [email protected]
> wrote:
> >>
> >> indeed, I get
> >>
> >> MAC-04017247:sage dcoudert$ nm
> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/lib/libopenblas.dylib | grep  dgeqrfp
> >>
> >> 0000000000d84dbc T _LAPACKE_dgeqrfp
> >>
> >> 0000000000d84eec T _LAPACKE_dgeqrfp_work
> >>
> >> 00000000008f4120 T _dgeqrfp_
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tuesday, February 25, 2025 at 11:11:21 PM UTC+1 [email protected]
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The symbol which is reported as missing from openblas 0.3.29 (dgeqrf_)
> is defined in openblas 0.3.28 (which is the version built by the Sage
> openblas spkg).
> >>> % nm local/lib/libopenblas.dylib | grep dgeqrf
> >>> 00000000007fcb64 T _LAPACKE_dgeqrf
> >>> 00000000007fcca0 T _LAPACKE_dgeqrf_work
> >>> 00000000007fce58 T _LAPACKE_dgeqrfp
> >>> 00000000007fcf94 T _LAPACKE_dgeqrfp_work
> >>> 0000000000364c60 T _dgeqrf_
> >>> 00000000003651a0 T _dgeqrfp_
> >>>
> >>> If you run that nm command on the Homebrew version of
> libopenblas.dylib it will probably not show that symbol.
> >>>
> >>> The configure script author seemed to think that dgeqrf_ is a good
> symbol to check for when deciding whether an openblas library is
> acceptable.  But that symbol was apparently removed from 0.3.29.  So maybe
> that was just a bad choice and the script should be checking for something
> else instead.
> >>>
> >>> - Marc
> >>>
> >>> On Tuesday, February 25, 2025 at 3:22:00 PM UTC-6 [email protected]
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> MAC-04017247:sage dcoudert$ otool -TV
> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/lib/libopenblas.dylib
> >>>>
> >>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/lib/libopenblas.dylib:
> >>>>
> >>>> Table of contents (0 entries)
> >>>>
> >>>> module name      symbol name
> >>>>
> >>>> MAC-04017247:sage dcoudert$ otool -TV
> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/lib/libopenblas.a | grep dgeqrf
> >>>>
> >>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/lib/libopenblas.a(dgeqrf.o):
> >>>>
> >>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/lib/libopenblas.a(dgeqrfp.o):
> >>>>
> >>>>
> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/lib/libopenblas.a(lapacke_dgeqrf.o):
> >>>>
> >>>>
> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/lib/libopenblas.a(lapacke_dgeqrf_work.o):
> >>>>
> >>>>
> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/lib/libopenblas.a(lapacke_dgeqrfp.o):
> >>>>
> >>>>
> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/lib/libopenblas.a(lapacke_dgeqrfp_work.o):
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> and yes, I'm trying with https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/39571
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tuesday, February 25, 2025 at 8:59:05 PM UTC+1 Dima Pasechnik
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 1:01 PM [email protected]
> >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > my homebrew install of openblas (0.3.29) is not accepted, as can
> be seen in the config.log file.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> can you find anything like "dgeqrf" in the output of
> >>>>>
> >>>>> otool -TV /opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/lib/libopenblas.dylib
> >>>>>
> >>>>> not 100% sure about the exact name of the dylib , but you get the
> idea, right?
> >>>>> The issue comes from
> >>>>>
> https://github.com/sagemath/sagetrac-mirror/commit/71ac6a5e18ad2e08383a122ef305df593a34aa3a
> >>>>> which is a very hacky way to avoid the use of gfortran. We can
> re-work
> >>>>> it if needed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dima
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > ## --------------------------------------------------------- ##
> >>>>> > ## Checking whether SageMath should install SPKG openblas... ##
> >>>>> > ## --------------------------------------------------------- ##
> >>>>> > configure:18884: checking whether any of gfortran is installed as
> or will be installed as SPKG
> >>>>> > configure:18894: result: no
> >>>>> > configure:18908: checking for openblas >= 0.2.20 openblas < 0.3.99
> >>>>> > configure:18915: $PKG_CONFIG --exists --print-errors "openblas >=
> 0.2.20 openblas < 0.3.99"
> >>>>> > configure:18918: $? = 0
> >>>>> > configure:18932: $PKG_CONFIG --exists --print-errors "openblas >=
> 0.2.20 openblas < 0.3.99"
> >>>>> > configure:18935: $? = 0
> >>>>> > configure:19931: result: yes
> >>>>> > configure:19940: $PKG_CONFIG --exists --print-errors "openblas"
> >>>>> > configure:19943: $? = 0
> >>>>> > configure:19963: checking for cblas_dgemm
> >>>>> > configure:19963: g++ -std=gnu++11 -std=gnu++11 -o conftest
> conftest.cpp -L/opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/lib -lopenblas -lbz2
> -lglpk -lgmp -lm >&5
> >>>>> > configure:19963: $? = 0
> >>>>> > configure:19963: result: yes
> >>>>> > configure:20044: checking for dgeqrf
> >>>>> > configure:20044: g++ -std=gnu++11 -std=gnu++11 -o conftest
> conftest.cpp -L/opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/lib -lopenblas -lbz2
> -lglpk -lgmp -lm >&5
> >>>>> > Undefined symbols for architecture arm64:
> >>>>> > "_dgeqrf", referenced from:
> >>>>> > _main in conftest-e6c8b5.o
> >>>>> > ld: symbol(s) not found for architecture arm64
> >>>>> > clang++: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to
> see invocation)
> >>>>> > configure:20044: $? = 1
> >>>>> > configure: failed program was:
> >>>>> > | /* confdefs.h */
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_NAME "Sage"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_TARNAME "sage"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_VERSION "10.6.beta7"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_STRING "Sage 10.6.beta7"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_BUGREPORT "[email protected]"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_URL ""
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE "sage"
> >>>>> > | #define VERSION "10.6.beta7"
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STDIO_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STDLIB_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STRING_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_INTTYPES_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STDINT_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STRINGS_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_SYS_STAT_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_SYS_TYPES_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_UNISTD_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define STDC_HEADERS 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_LIBM 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_CXX11 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_GMP_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define ABSOLUTE_GMP_H "///opt/homebrew/include/gmp.h"
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_BOOST /**/
> >>>>> > | /* end confdefs.h. */
> >>>>> > | /* Define dgeqrf to an innocuous variant, in case <limits.h>
> declares dgeqrf.
> >>>>> > | For example, HP-UX 11i <limits.h> declares gettimeofday. */
> >>>>> > | #define dgeqrf innocuous_dgeqrf
> >>>>> > |
> >>>>> > | /* System header to define __stub macros and hopefully few
> prototypes,
> >>>>> > | which can conflict with char dgeqrf (void); below. */
> >>>>> > |
> >>>>> > | #include <limits.h>
> >>>>> > | #undef dgeqrf
> >>>>> > |
> >>>>> > | /* Override any GCC internal prototype to avoid an error.
> >>>>> > | Use char because int might match the return type of a GCC
> >>>>> > | builtin and then its argument prototype would still apply. */
> >>>>> > | #ifdef __cplusplus
> >>>>> > | extern "C"
> >>>>> > | #endif
> >>>>> > | char dgeqrf (void);
> >>>>> > | /* The GNU C library defines this for functions which it
> implements
> >>>>> > | to always fail with ENOSYS. Some functions are actually named
> >>>>> > | something starting with __ and the normal name is an alias. */
> >>>>> > | #if defined __stub_dgeqrf || defined __stub___dgeqrf
> >>>>> > | choke me
> >>>>> > | #endif
> >>>>> > |
> >>>>> > | int
> >>>>> > | main (void)
> >>>>> > | {
> >>>>> > | return dgeqrf ();
> >>>>> > | ;
> >>>>> > | return 0;
> >>>>> > | }
> >>>>> > configure:20044: result: no
> >>>>> > configure:20051: checking for dgeqrf_
> >>>>> > configure:20051: g++ -std=gnu++11 -std=gnu++11 -o conftest
> conftest.cpp -L/opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/lib -lopenblas -lbz2
> -lglpk -lgmp -lm >&5
> >>>>> > configure:20051: $? = 0
> >>>>> > configure:20051: result: yes
> >>>>> > configure:20058: checking for DGEQRF
> >>>>> > configure:20058: g++ -std=gnu++11 -std=gnu++11 -o conftest
> conftest.cpp -L/opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/lib -lopenblas -lbz2
> -lglpk -lgmp -lm >&5
> >>>>> > Undefined symbols for architecture arm64:
> >>>>> > "_DGEQRF", referenced from:
> >>>>> > _main in conftest-8dfd93.o
> >>>>> > ld: symbol(s) not found for architecture arm64
> >>>>> > clang++: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to
> see invocation)
> >>>>> > configure:20058: $? = 1
> >>>>> > configure: failed program was:
> >>>>> > | /* confdefs.h */
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_NAME "Sage"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_TARNAME "sage"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_VERSION "10.6.beta7"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_STRING "Sage 10.6.beta7"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_BUGREPORT "[email protected]"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_URL ""
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE "sage"
> >>>>> > | #define VERSION "10.6.beta7"
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STDIO_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STDLIB_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STRING_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_INTTYPES_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STDINT_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STRINGS_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_SYS_STAT_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_SYS_TYPES_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_UNISTD_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define STDC_HEADERS 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_LIBM 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_CXX11 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_GMP_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define ABSOLUTE_GMP_H "///opt/homebrew/include/gmp.h"
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_BOOST /**/
> >>>>> > | /* end confdefs.h. */
> >>>>> > | /* Define DGEQRF to an innocuous variant, in case <limits.h>
> declares DGEQRF.
> >>>>> > | For example, HP-UX 11i <limits.h> declares gettimeofday. */
> >>>>> > | #define DGEQRF innocuous_DGEQRF
> >>>>> > |
> >>>>> > | /* System header to define __stub macros and hopefully few
> prototypes,
> >>>>> > | which can conflict with char DGEQRF (void); below. */
> >>>>> > |
> >>>>> > | #include <limits.h>
> >>>>> > | #undef DGEQRF
> >>>>> > |
> >>>>> > | /* Override any GCC internal prototype to avoid an error.
> >>>>> > | Use char because int might match the return type of a GCC
> >>>>> > | builtin and then its argument prototype would still apply. */
> >>>>> > | #ifdef __cplusplus
> >>>>> > | extern "C"
> >>>>> > | #endif
> >>>>> > | char DGEQRF (void);
> >>>>> > | /* The GNU C library defines this for functions which it
> implements
> >>>>> > | to always fail with ENOSYS. Some functions are actually named
> >>>>> > | something starting with __ and the normal name is an alias. */
> >>>>> > | #if defined __stub_DGEQRF || defined __stub___DGEQRF
> >>>>> > | choke me
> >>>>> > | #endif
> >>>>> > |
> >>>>> > | int
> >>>>> > | main (void)
> >>>>> > | {
> >>>>> > | return DGEQRF ();
> >>>>> > | ;
> >>>>> > | return 0;
> >>>>> > | }
> >>>>> > configure:20058: result: no
> >>>>> > configure:20065: checking for DGEQRF_
> >>>>> > configure:20065: g++ -std=gnu++11 -std=gnu++11 -o conftest
> conftest.cpp -L/opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/lib -lopenblas -lbz2
> -lglpk -lgmp -lm >&5
> >>>>> > Undefined symbols for architecture arm64:
> >>>>> > "_DGEQRF_", referenced from:
> >>>>> > _main in conftest-ff1fe7.o
> >>>>> > ld: symbol(s) not found for architecture arm64
> >>>>> > clang++: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to
> see invocation)
> >>>>> > configure:20065: $? = 1
> >>>>> > configure: failed program was:
> >>>>> > | /* confdefs.h */
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_NAME "Sage"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_TARNAME "sage"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_VERSION "10.6.beta7"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_STRING "Sage 10.6.beta7"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_BUGREPORT "[email protected]"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_URL ""
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE "sage"
> >>>>> > | #define VERSION "10.6.beta7"
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STDIO_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STDLIB_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STRING_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_INTTYPES_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STDINT_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STRINGS_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_SYS_STAT_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_SYS_TYPES_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_UNISTD_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define STDC_HEADERS 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_LIBM 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_CXX11 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_GMP_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define ABSOLUTE_GMP_H "///opt/homebrew/include/gmp.h"
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_BOOST /**/
> >>>>> > | /* end confdefs.h. */
> >>>>> > | /* Define DGEQRF_ to an innocuous variant, in case <limits.h>
> declares DGEQRF_.
> >>>>> > | For example, HP-UX 11i <limits.h> declares gettimeofday. */
> >>>>> > | #define DGEQRF_ innocuous_DGEQRF_
> >>>>> > |
> >>>>> > | /* System header to define __stub macros and hopefully few
> prototypes,
> >>>>> > | which can conflict with char DGEQRF_ (void); below. */
> >>>>> > |
> >>>>> > | #include <limits.h>
> >>>>> > | #undef DGEQRF_
> >>>>> > |
> >>>>> > | /* Override any GCC internal prototype to avoid an error.
> >>>>> > | Use char because int might match the return type of a GCC
> >>>>> > | builtin and then its argument prototype would still apply. */
> >>>>> > | #ifdef __cplusplus
> >>>>> > | extern "C"
> >>>>> > | #endif
> >>>>> > | char DGEQRF_ (void);
> >>>>> > | /* The GNU C library defines this for functions which it
> implements
> >>>>> > | to always fail with ENOSYS. Some functions are actually named
> >>>>> > | something starting with __ and the normal name is an alias. */
> >>>>> > | #if defined __stub_DGEQRF_ || defined __stub___DGEQRF_
> >>>>> > | choke me
> >>>>> > | #endif
> >>>>> > |
> >>>>> > | int
> >>>>> > | main (void)
> >>>>> > | {
> >>>>> > | return DGEQRF_ ();
> >>>>> > | ;
> >>>>> > | return 0;
> >>>>> > | }
> >>>>> > configure:20065: result: no
> >>>>> > configure:20157: checking the OpenBLAS version using
> openblas_get_config
> >>>>> > configure:20185: gcc -o conftest
> -I/opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/include -fopenmp -g -O2 conftest.c
> -L/opt/homebrew/Cellar/openblas/0.3.29/lib -lopenblas -lbz2 -lglpk -lgmp
> -lm >&5
> >>>>> > clang: error: unsupported option '-fopenmp'
> >>>>> > clang: error: unsupported option '-fopenmp'
> >>>>> > configure:20185: $? = 1
> >>>>> > configure: program exited with status 1
> >>>>> > configure: failed program was:
> >>>>> > | /* confdefs.h */
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_NAME "Sage"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_TARNAME "sage"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_VERSION "10.6.beta7"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_STRING "Sage 10.6.beta7"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_BUGREPORT "[email protected]"
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE_URL ""
> >>>>> > | #define PACKAGE "sage"
> >>>>> > | #define VERSION "10.6.beta7"
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STDIO_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STDLIB_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STRING_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_INTTYPES_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STDINT_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_STRINGS_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_SYS_STAT_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_SYS_TYPES_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_UNISTD_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define STDC_HEADERS 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_LIBM 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_CXX11 1
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_GMP_H 1
> >>>>> > | #define ABSOLUTE_GMP_H "///opt/homebrew/include/gmp.h"
> >>>>> > | #define HAVE_BOOST /**/
> >>>>> > | /* end confdefs.h. */
> >>>>> > | #include <string.h>
> >>>>> > | char *openblas_get_config(void);
> >>>>> > | int
> >>>>> > | main (void)
> >>>>> > | {
> >>>>> > | if (!strncmp(openblas_get_config(), "OpenBLAS 0.3.22", 15))
> return 1;
> >>>>> > | ;
> >>>>> > | return 0;
> >>>>> > | }
> >>>>> > |
> >>>>> > configure:20191: result: known bad version
> >>>>> > configure:20261: no suitable system package found for SPKG openblas
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > On Tuesday, February 25, 2025 at 7:36:27 PM UTC+1 Dima Pasechnik
> wrote:
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 12:03 PM [email protected]
> >>>>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > I agree that we should use as many homebrew packages as
> possible, but how can we ensure that we follow the upgrades ?
> >>>>> >> > For instance the versions of openblas (0.3.29), gsl (2.8),
> numpy (2.2.3), scipy (1.15.2) and pari (2.17.1) are newer on homebrew than
> what we accept.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> Because the update of pari is stalled due to a bug reported?
> >>>>> >> A Pari expert should step up and tell whether it's an upstream
> bug, or not.
> >>>>> >> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/38749
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> openblas (of any version less than 0.3.99) should be accepted,
> >>>>> >> provided it is recognised by pkg-config
> >>>>> >> (you'd need to run source .homebrew-build-env for the latter).
> >>>>> >> Same applies to gsl.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> numpy and scipy are Python packages, you need
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> ./configure --enable-system-site-packages
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> to have them from "outside".
> >>>>> >> There are no version constraints on them imposed.
> >>>>> >> I have a meanwhile bitrotten PR to upgrade numpy and scipy, and
> >>>>> >> despite requesting review from 5 people, only two responded.
> >>>>> >> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/38846, back in Oct 2024.
> >>>>> >> Then reviewers just disappeared there...
> >>>>> >> Some of these updates are now in separate PRs. Some need to be
> done.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> See, that's what I mean by "Sage has too many vendored packages".
> >>>>> >> These packages are bog-standard PyPI packages, we could have
> followed
> >>>>> >> the new versions if we didn't have this so beloved by some version
> >>>>> >> locks.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> Dima
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > I'm currently facing the following issue:
> >>>>> >> > ipykernel fails to compile and reports that it is unable to
> find jupyter_core. But configure says:
> >>>>> >> > jupyter_core: using system package; SPKG will not be installed
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > I'm currently trying to compile from scratch with
> --with-system-jupyter_core=no. We'll see if it's better.
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > On Tuesday, February 25, 2025 at 6:16:24 PM UTC+1 John H
> Palmieri wrote:
> >>>>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> Maybe this is naive, but if you're testing a change from the
> old situation, where Python 3.13 was not allowed, to now allowing it, I
> might imagine that you would test it on standard supported platforms, like
> OS X with Python 3.13 installed via homebrew. We should back out the change
> until it's implemented correctly.
> >>>>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> On Tuesday, February 25, 2025 at 6:46:41 AM UTC-8 Dima
> Pasechnik wrote:
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> On 24 February 2025 23:52:36 GMT-06:00, John H Palmieri <
> [email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>> >> >>> >Sage should work out of the box without
> "--enable-system-site-packages".
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> The box has become so heavy that one needs a forklift to do
> anything with it :-)
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> > If
> >>>>> >> >>> >it doesn't, that's a bug in Sage. How about we don't allow
> Python 3.13 if
> >>>>> >> >>> >it's broken? Why wasn't this caught in testing?
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> well, Sage with Python 3.13 works on Linux,
> >>>>> >> >>> and is default on some.
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> It appears that there are dozens of macOS/apple
> toolchain/apple hardware combos, and each of them has its very own set of
> bugs, misfeatures, multiple dodgy Python installs, etc.
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> We can't possibly test for all of them.
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> And please don't force on Sage developers the need to dig up
> and reproduce solutions by Homebrew, which has 10 times more developers and
> nontrivial funding, solutions which are already there.
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> What's wrong with using the flag above, if it works?
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> I hope William S. forgives me if I quote his up to date
> opinion on Macs:
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> -----
> >>>>> >> >>> For me, Macs are reasonable as basically "Chromebooks" that
> can also
> >>>>> >> >>> run Linux VM's pretty well and keep track of photos and
> video. Beyond
> >>>>> >> >>> that it's extremely painful, and I vastly prefer Linux for
> all things
> >>>>> >> >>> dev/server/remote.
> >>>>> >> >>> -----
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> My opinion is similar - except that the only use of Mac I
> have is to cause myself extreme pain by trying to fix never ending macOS -
> specific
> >>>>> >> >>> issues.
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> On macOS, either we embrace Homebrew and use it to get
> external dependencies, or we use Conda. Current "build everything from
> ground up" has become next to impossible in any reliable way.
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> Dima
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> >
> >>>>> >> >>> >
> >>>>> >> >>> >On Monday, February 24, 2025 at 7:34:13 PM UTC-8 Dima
> Pasechnik wrote:
> >>>>> >> >>> >
> >>>>> >> >>> >> On Mon, Feb 24, 2025 at 5:44 PM John H Palmieri <
> [email protected]>
> >>>>> >> >>> >> wrote:
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >
> >>>>> >> >>> >> > On OS X 15.3.1 with many homebrew packages installed,
> including both
> >>>>> >> >>> >> Python 3.12 and Python 3.13:
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >
> >>>>> >> >>> >> > - if I use Python 3.13, `pillow` and `cffi` fail to
> build. (I used
> >>>>> >> >>> >> "./configure", and I also tried after applying the patch
> from #39570)
> >>>>> >> >>> >>
> >>>>> >> >>> >> how about using installing pillow and cffi in Homebrew,
> and doing
> >>>>> >> >>> >>
> >>>>> >> >>> >> ./configure --enable-system-site-packages
> >>>>> >> >>> >>
> >>>>> >> >>> >> This should pick them from Homebrew. (If it doesn't it's a
> Sage bug I
> >>>>> >> >>> >> suppose)
> >>>>> >> >>> >>
> >>>>> >> >>> >> Frankly speaking I am less than excited to try to figure
> out what goes
> >>>>> >> >>> >> wrong in sdh_pip_install
> >>>>> >> >>> >> in this case. Homebrew can do it...
> >>>>> >> >>> >>
> >>>>> >> >>> >> > - if I use Python 3.12, then `pillow` and `cffi` and
> indeed everything
> >>>>> >> >>> >> builds successfully. (I used "./configure
> --with-python=`which python3.12`")
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >
> >>>>> >> >>> >> > On Friday, February 21, 2025 at 3:40:17 PM UTC-8 Volker
> Braun wrote:
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> As always, you can get the latest beta version from the
> "develop" git
> >>>>> >> >>> >> branch. Alternatively, the self-contained source tarball
> is at
> >>>>> >> >>> >> http://www.sagemath.org/download-latest.html
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 9cd86e9596a (tag: 10.6.beta7, github/develop) Updated
> SageMath version
> >>>>> >> >>> >> to 10.6.beta7
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> c2766d1f625 gh-39541: Remove dead mailing lists.
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 54951498178 gh-39536: Fix a nonfunctional long time
> doctest tag
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 5289298248a gh-39533: build/pkgs: update eclib to
> version 20250122
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 7420a272382 gh-39530: Improvement to flint_autogen
> reader
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> cee1e2b52f9 gh-39527: Test on CI that update-meson is
> properly ran
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> a007379b910 gh-39523: multi polynomial element/repr
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 850493472d5 gh-39521: rename also set-like species
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> bd626efc02f gh-39518: line_graph for multigraphs
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 72c6188116a gh-39513: Show test failures of ci-meson as
> annotations
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 4f4c1203415 gh-39510: add of the function
> rank_support_of_vector
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 2af3de6fa6e gh-39509: Add a doctest for
> >>>>> >> >>> >> HomsetsCategory._make_named_class_key
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> d8b7cdfcecb gh-39508: Fix some typo
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> b567299fbbb gh-39506: New algorithm for cuts of a Poset
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 88672d71a29 gh-39505: Improve handling of strings
> supplied as matrix
> >>>>> >> >>> >> entries
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 935232df552 gh-39504: Implement im_gens in the class
> fraction_field_FpT
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> a01815fda00 gh-39499: Improve sage_getfile by looking
> at __init__
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> b7da8f23c43 gh-39498: Apply sort and filter of
> walk_packages
> >>>>> >> >>> >> consistently
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 3500f616037 gh-39497: moving random_element to category
> of rings
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> e368fa71812 gh-39496: Add deformation cones and
> checking for regularity
> >>>>> >> >>> >> for Point Configurations and normal fans of Polyhedra
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 8978ff83f52 gh-39495: Add documentation of Gabidulin
> codes in the
> >>>>> >> >>> >> reference manual
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 98eec5d86fe gh-39494: Fix more doctests in
> meson_editable install
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> cfbaaf16be2 gh-39491: fixing doctests failures in
> misc/latex*.py
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> a2737325c19 gh-39489: fix several oeis related doctests
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 8a44c7365b7 gh-39488: Fix issue on matrix construction
> over integer mod
> >>>>> >> >>> >> ring for large coefficients
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 78a3eede92c gh-39487: Improvement of the rendering of
> the documentation
> >>>>> >> >>> >> in polynomial sequence
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 34b7f9050fb gh-39486: Finish changing Rational's round
> method default
> >>>>> >> >>> >> rounding to even
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 04afcf71552 gh-39485: Implement conversion from laurent
> series to
> >>>>> >> >>> >> rational function field
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> ae158663847 gh-39482: fix one typo
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 83f7d065286 gh-39481: Fixed issue in list_plot where it
> assumed data
> >>>>> >> >>> >> had been enumerated when it might not have been
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 8e204dde3b3 gh-39479: Fixed crash when exp(0) of p-adic
> numbers is
> >>>>> >> >>> >> called
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 11ee7ca4e19 gh-39477: typing and details in tableaux
> files
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> c61e562de76 gh-39476: typing annotation for gens method
> in rings and
> >>>>> >> >>> >> groups (pyx files)
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 85ce297ff2c gh-39474: convert gens method in modular to
> return tuple
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> c732c6552e4 gh-39473: add tuple typing to gens methods
> in algebras
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 556d5f0eb80 gh-39466: remove some deprecations in groups
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> c22e48480c3 gh-39456: Trivial simplifications for arccos
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 68744be391e gh-39454: remove deprecated stuff in
> permutation.py
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 784ff00867a gh-39449: Magma padics
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 897e722c74e gh-39423: Use import_module instead of
> find_spec
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 870aba20786 gh-39397: details in braid groups
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> e6975bebe80 gh-39381: Allow system python 3.13
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> b57e33797cf gh-39366: Add documentation to
> LaurentSeries point to
> >>>>> >> >>> >> accessors
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 357f95e088c gh-39365: Allow coercion from Frac(QQ[x]) to
> >>>>> >> >>> >> LaurentSeriesRing(QQ)
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 041336691f6 gh-39266: add parameter immutable to
> generators in
> >>>>> >> >>> >> `sage/graphs/digraph_generators.py` (part 2)
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> e0806107d60 gh-39251: Require Python 3.11 or newer;
> remove outdated
> >>>>> >> >>> >> workarounds
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> ac8406fba6a gh-39248: introduce new apozeta polynomial
> for posets
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 10edc54de0a gh-39215: Class polynomial for Drinfeld
> modules
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 2e0d6d201bf gh-39214: Add keyword prec for exponential
> and logarithm of
> >>>>> >> >>> >> Drinfeld modules
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> b5c26156430 gh-39212: Refactor period lattice
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> d0e72a61433 gh-39128: Add note about makeflags and
> ninja parallelism
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 067ebbd0c8c gh-39093: Improve hack used in debug_options
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> a89c57b64f8 gh-39092: Remove erroneous member
> declaration in
> >>>>> >> >>> >> farey_symbol
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> cc231ef0353 gh-39061: Fix some errors in documentation
> of cachefunc
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> f0581cbe397 gh-39025: Add reseed_rng option to
> p_iter_fork
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 290b261bc4f gh-38986: Allow CRT_list() to be called
> with one argument
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 0a278fc918e gh-38824: Turn some doctests in
> `ell_rational_field.py`
> >>>>> >> >>> >> into long tests
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> c43cd23ee83 gh-38650: Add support for pseudomorphisms
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 6e82ee51eb9 gh-38108: Implicit function solver for lazy
> series
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 42d00ed27b3 gh-37173: Implemented `.ramified_places`
> and modified
> >>>>> >> >>> >> further methods to extend quaternion algebra functionality
> to number fields
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 8d7107c1aab gh-37158: use Parent in quotient rings too
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >> 766c7a0c5b8 (tag: 10.6.beta6) Updated SageMath version
> to 10.6.beta6
> >>>>> >> >>> >> >
> >>>>> >> >>> >> > --
> >>>>> >> >>> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to
> the Google
> >>>>> >> >>> >> Groups "sage-release" group.
> >>>>> >> >>> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
> from it, send
> >>>>> >> >>> >> an email to [email protected].
> >>>>> >> >>> >> > To view this discussion visit
> >>>>> >> >>> >>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-release/aa27984d-e9b6-4eb4-b4a1-a422672e26a6n%40googlegroups.com
> >>>>> >> >>> >> .
> >>>>> >> >>> >>
> >>>>> >> >>> >
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > --
> >>>>> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
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> >>>>> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
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> >>>>> >> > To view this discussion visit
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> .
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > --
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