Fr FN. What a brilliant account. Thank you ever so much for taking the time, trouble and effort to answer my queries, Fr Nascimento. I sense much of what you have written was unknown to the group, and that surely is a great tribute to your dedication and efforts. As I said earlier, you are a scholar. God bless you and I wish you all the best with your health.
PS. FN, you read too much into my choice of mis-spelt word ;) PPS Albert, I dont want to go into the communidade/church/common man equation. Im in enough trouble already! over and out. [email protected] From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SALIGAONET] What did it cost to build the Saligao Church? [Saligao Serenade] Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 01:09:57 +0530 Dear Dr. Delip, thanks for your questions. For almost 300 years the people of Saligao were under Nagoa church. The Nagoa Church had also the followihg villages under its jurisdiction, Oxel, Siolim, Anjuna-Assagao, Parra, Arpora, Baga, Nagoa and Saligao Omagine the distances. All the villages slowly began to have their own ondependant churches and the second last was Assagao built as Chapel in1775 and raised to the status of a church in 1813 so still under the control of Franciscans. The Franciscans were in Bardes till 1835 and the diocesan priests took over bardes churches. Saligao was the last village to have its church only in 1873 The Communidade of Saligad did have money to build the church as periodically the same Communidade de Saligao from 1813 to 1841 made a total donation to the parent Church of Nagoa amounting to 9.084-3-15 xerafins.this is recorded in the on Bosquejo Historoco by Folope nery xavier on page 467 of vol II. Now count the money in donation given to the Nagoa Church for the services from 1560 to 1840 and then1841 to say 1861 The request to build the church came from the Archbishop of Goa, Amorim de Pessoa. He made this visit to Saligaokars during his Pastoral visit to the parent Nagoa Church and Saligao village in the early 1860's. (Saligao was under Nagoa church from 1560 . However Saligaokars had already build their own chapels five of them in Arrarim, Tabravaddo, Grande- Morodd, Pequeno- Morodd and Mudd'davadi. At the time if his visit the Archbishop gave some idea to Saligaokars to break their five chapels and use stones and paraphermelia of the chapels to build the new church. In the subsequent meeting of the Communidade Saliganvkars rejected the idea of destroying the chapels. om the end a slall chapel that existed in the property temba was brought down and stones and paraphernalia was use. there is the image of the chapel, the bell and the confraria and also old vestments in the church till this day. As Archbishop odea of the chapel was rejected so there was a hurry to show the authorities that saligaokars were in a position to built the church. other weighing reasons you will find below. Besides, less affluent villages had churches and so the suggestion given by the Archbishop to build the Church was accepted with glee. The Communidade de Saligao had already the money, the central property Temba plus gamvkars had the annual 'zonn' and of say ten years it would be quite a sizable amount and quite many saligaokars were already in various parts of the world earning and well-off and literate too. Yhere was a tradition that our ladies from saligao even donated their gold to build the Church but I have not read about it in the any document. There were hundreds of priests then, educated in Rachol Seminary which incidently is celebrating 400 years of its existence this year. Some of our priests even were Vicar Generals, Monsehores, Canons etc ( Till today the highest number of priests in Bardez are from Saligao (not counting those ordained in other parts of India and bishops and archbishops too) Now. can you understand why a Seminary was built in Saligao, yjos is ome of the reasons). The Archbishop knew all this and that the people were industrious too, But the number of people of Saligao dying without last Sacraments hesides long distances for the ever growing farming population of saligao was weighing much in the conscience of the Archbishop. By the time the priest could attend to the dying at his house the person had died without receiving the Sacrament and this was a very grave and serious lapse.. So there was a spiritual haste to build the church and have priest to attend to their spiritual need. The chapels of Saligao were older than the church but there was no resident priest then.Our priests from Saligao were exercising yheir pastoral ministry in different other goan parishes and churches, chapels etc.. So there was a need to have a church and quickly. So after this background I will try to answer your three questions. 1.Where did the request to build originate from ? >From Archbishop's house, Panjim. But it was told to the ward people in Saligao when His Grace went to visit them in their ward chapels. 2. How did the Saligao communidade come to inherit the bill ? It had enough money to spend. you have read the amount in the budget.. Why was it done in such apparent haste ? As the elderly people in Saligao were dying without the last Sacraments and the distances were quite long,besides the people in Saligao were farmers and they had to attend masses too in Nagoa and Nagoa had only one priest with no assistants then and he had to cater to Baga, Arpora, Nagoa and Saligao. I think the church in Saligao should have come during the francviscan era, but it was not to be.. Thank your forpatiently read the above accounts I have heavy duties at Margao church with a catholic population of 23 thousands and saligaokar will tell you that iam old and sickly There is a parish priest and an assistant. With personal.regard fr. nascimento mascarenhas ----- Original Message ----- From: dilip dacruz To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 8:40 PM Subject: RE: [SALIGAONET] What did it cost to build the Saligao Church? [Saligao Serenade] Thanks. There's also a webpage (unreferenced) that deals with jaggery's strange uses, including as a cementing agent: http://www.organicfacts.net/nutrition-facts/others/strange-uses-of-jaggery.html Guess the other questions I had are more difficult and contentious .... Where did the request to build originate from? How did the saligao communidade come to inherit the bill? and why was it all done with such apparent haste? [email protected] From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SALIGAONET] What did it cost to build the Saligao Church? [Saligao Serenade] Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 19:55:05 +0530 Dear Albert, Thank you very much for explaining how the paste was done with coconut jaggery for building purposes in olden times. God bless you and your family.fr. nascimento mascarenhas. ----- Original Message ----- From: Albert Desouza To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 11:10 AM Subject: RE: [SALIGAONET] What did it cost to build the Saligao Church? [Saligao Serenade] Dear saligaonkars In olden days people did not use cement or chunnam. They bu.ilt houses using clay which was mixed with coconut jaggery and small stones and pounded using heavy sticks. This pounding was done till the clay became a paste So the houses were made of this paste alone or used to join stones. But the construction was very strong and durable. Later they started using chunnam. This chunnam along with jaggery and small stones was put in a small well dug for the purpose and pounded to make a sticky paste. The pounding was done by women around five to six and for three to four days till the stickness was obtained. They would use this inplace of cement . Albert de souza From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [SALIGAONET] What did it cost to build the Saligao Church? [Saligao Serenade] Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 08:39:35 +0400 Thanks for posting Val. This is a fascinating historical article about the building of the church. A few questions for the group: 1. I'm intrigued by the jaggery. Was it used as a glue? Or was it a form of heat insulation? I understand Jaggery is sometimes used to line tandoors. 2. Quote: " The Inspector of Public Works Department, Major Engineer Martins was asked to draw up a plan for a Gothic Church, which he did." Who asked Martins? Was it the Governor (a top-down request) or a bottom-up (the people)? 3. Quote: "The Comunidade of Saligao is to pay all expenses of the building." Pardon my ignorance, but I doubt the communidade was a representative body in 1866 (not that it is now!). How did that order come to pass? Again, was it top-down or bottom-up? Are there any documented discussions that might have occurred in Communicade available? 4. The speed at which the project was sanctioned is breath-taking: 10th april Major Martins makes request, 20th June Governor agrees. That's really really quick. Similarly, the additional budget was passed in a matter of a few weeks. Was this just super-efficient administration or was there a need for speed? I suspect there was a political policy rapidly to promote the building of churches throughout portugese Goa, and that's why applications (and budgets) were passed at such a pace. Was such a policy in existence at that time? I realise its easy to ask questions and hard to find answers, but its possible someone in the group might know. [email protected] From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: [SALIGAONET] What did it cost to build the Saligao Church? [Saligao Serenade] Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 17:47:57 +0530 [Posted by Val Souza] New essay on Saligao Serenade: ========================================= What Did it Cost to Build the Saligao Church? by Fr. Nascimento Mascarenhas As people from all over the world, with roots in Goa’s northern village of Saligao, celebrate the 137th anniversary of the inauguration of the Mae de Deus Church, it’s interesting to look back and establish how much money was set aside for the construction of our beloved church all those years ago. We begin with the set-up of things prior to the laying of the foundation stone of the church. The year is 1866... [Click here to read the entire essay] http://www.saligaoserenade.com/2010/11/26/what-did-it-cost-to-build-the-saligao-church/ ========================================= Other essays featured this week: A Red-Letter Day for Saligao A great joy, a feeling of exaltation, a festive aura seemed to permeate and spur the village of Saligao. The day had an electrifying effect that charged everyone with nonpareil happiness. The village seemed to have woken up on the morning of November 26, 1873, as one unique and compact mass to celebrate the great day in its history, and to render the greatest possible homage to Our Lady Mae de Deus under whose mantle protection and maternal care all of the village would be placed from this day. [Click here to read the entire essay] http://www.saligaoserenade.com/2008/09/08/a-red-letter-day-for-saligao/ ========================================== First Mass in Saligao Church In the new Saligao Church, on 27 November 1873, there was a solemn High Mass with a choir and music in honour of the Patroness of the Church. After the Gospel reading, the well-known preacher and one of the greatest luminaries of the Goan clergy... [Click here to read the entire essay] http://www.saligaoserenade.com/2010/03/11/first-mass-in-saligao-church/ ========================================== The Man Behind the Saligao Church If one were called upon to single out a specific individual as the greatest benefactor of the village of Saligao, that individual would undoubtedly be Francisco Salvador Zeferino Pinto, fondly known as Salu Pinto. [Click here to read the entire essay] http://www.saligaoserenade.com/2008/08/06/the-man-behind-the-saligao-church/ ========================================== -- This message comes via the Google Groups "Saligao-Net" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/saligao-net?hl=en Please post regularly to keep the e-village active! -- This message comes via the Google Groups "Saligao-Net" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/saligao-net?hl=en Please post regularly to keep the e-village active! -- This message comes via the Google Groups "Saligao-Net" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/saligao-net?hl=en Please post regularly to keep the e-village active! -- This message comes via the Google Groups "Saligao-Net" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/saligao-net?hl=en Please post regularly to keep the e-village active! -- This message comes via the Google Groups "Saligao-Net" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/saligao-net?hl=en Please post regularly to keep the e-village active! -- This message comes via the Google Groups "Saligao-Net" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/saligao-net?hl=en Please post regularly to keep the e-village active! -- This message comes via the Google Groups "Saligao-Net" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/saligao-net?hl=en Please post regularly to keep the e-village active!
