Matt, Just as I should not be offended by “I feel like you’re trolling me”, because that is describing your feelings and not actually making a claim that I am (thus, giving me the benefit of the doubt), one should similarly be reluctant to jump to the conclusion that any statement made in a forum such as this is intended to offend.
I am making something of an issue of this because the rules, written or unwritten, of a community are important. I feel that Andreas posted a comment that was: - concise - impersonal - informative - relevant and that raised an issue worth discussing in the context of the job posting. Perhaps some folks here know something about the current goings on at HP or in the relevant division, or Mark may have relevant information that he might care to add. Passive aggressive would have been something like “Wow, now I hope someone posts some jobs at Palm”, which would have clearly been ridiculing Mark, and thus beyond the pale. Equally important as “being welcoming to new members” are such issues as “respecting all members” and “giving the benefit of the doubt”. If a posting is clearly offensive, it should be called out. But if something might possibly be offensive if you squint at it the right way, one should assume that it isn’t and move on, because it’s easy to misunderstand written words, and because discussion online is particularly unedited. Although I can’t see Andreas’ statements as offensive no matter how hard I squint, and I would have been happy to have said what he did no matter how carefully I edited it. What he said wasn’t ad hominem, or irrelevant, or off-topic, or offending any other criteria that ought to govern discussion in a community such as this. If in fact it was offensive in some other way, I’d be grateful if someone who feels as though it is would explain so slowly, using small words, so that I might understand. On Sep 11, 2012, at 1:39 PM, Matt Aimonetti <[email protected]> wrote: > Guyren, I feel like you're trolling me, but since it's just Tuesday, I'll put > some gangnam style in the background and reply. > > I’m particularly bemused by Matt’s response, after his previous experience > with political correctness online. > > As you mentioned, I have my share of experience in this area and learned from > my own mistakes. As I mentioned previously, the "offending debate" isn't > interesting nor the main point here. > We are talking about being welcoming to new members. If you cared about the > position, you could have asked about HP financial's current position. You > could have even done that in this thread in a nice way. > > The problem for me is that we have a local PM who knows about our group, who > signs up to our mailing list and shares a nice, short email about a local > opening. And on the other hand, we have someone who he doesn't know that is > being passive aggressive and doesn't make him feel welcome. > So my reaction is simple, I don't find that attitude needed nor useful. Is it > a big deal? No. But I still think that, the same way you're free to voice > your desire to not have to worry about others, I'm free to say that I don't > think we should behave like that. > > - Matt > > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Guyren Howe <[email protected]> wrote: > On Sep 11, 2012, at 1:14 PM, Neal Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > amusing for sure, but i like hearing about local openings through this > > list, and i'd much rather hear about them through a PM than a recruiter. > > let's not scare these guys off! > > Had I an interest in this position, I would actually be interested in what > Mark had to say about that. “Oh, yes, but this division is one of the most > profitable in the company and is desperately in need of IT staff, so the > position should be pretty safe” or whatever. > > So in fact, the response was not only amusing and pointed, but contra what > Matt said, potentially useful and needed. > > I’m really mystified by this discussion. Who are we likely to offend here, > and how are we offending them? I’ve no earthly idea. > > I’m particularly bemused by Matt’s response, after his previous experience > with political correctness online. -- SD Ruby mailing list [email protected] http://groups.google.com/group/sdruby
