Re: Windows CE on freerunner
Jeff Sadowski wrote: snip the whole reason to buy a freerunner is the fact that they support linux. snip Isn't the whole reason to buy a freerunner, that you are free to do whatever you like with it? :) (the name could give a hint...) Kalle Happonen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: stupid guy! thinks it's a train wreck!
Jan Keymeulen wrote: On Mon 18 August 2008 om 16:27:48 GMT Kalle Happonen told us: Flyin_bbb8 wrote: hahahah this guy is really stupid,, check it out.. be sure to check out his comments!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3ntUy2eqlk Not as much stupid as not grasping where/what OpenMoko is. Now the comments. They were pretty much written by idiots :). http://xkcd.com/202/ Aaah, xkcd. How many times hasn't that saved my day :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: stupid guy! thinks it's a train wreck!
Flyin_bbb8 wrote: hahahah this guy is really stupid,, check it out.. be sure to check out his comments!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3ntUy2eqlk Not as much stupid as not grasping where/what OpenMoko is. Now the comments. They were pretty much written by idiots :). Kalle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Usable Keyboard
Hi all, First of all I also have to say great job with 2008.08. I like it a lot. Then the normal keyboard rant. I don't mind the predictive keyboard at all. As long as 1) I can add languages 2) can choose the word I actually typed. When the predictive kb is on, and I type in english I really like it. Yesterday at the bar when friends were taynting ooh let's see if you manage to write an sms with openmoko, I whipped out the freerunner, and had a message written in english before the othe guys had their phones out of the pocket. And this was with accuracy - (beer * 4). But when they asked to write something in finnish, I said ooh, who's ready for anothe beer and deftly hid the freerunner. Cheers, Kalle With this crazy «dictionary-thing» I'm not able to write a message in (Swiss) German or any other language than English. Even a simple «Hallo» ends up in «Hello». And as long I'm not able to write a word that is not in the dictionary it's pretty useless for me. There are also keys missing to make it usable for the terminal. I think I am talking for a lot of people who want to have a _nice and usable_ keyboard - for any language and any app. The keyboard has to be finger friendly and not too small. It should contain all usual letters and special characters. I made a little mockup (it's no design masterpiece... ;-)) of a keyboard. I think something in this direction would be really cool: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2008 WTF??
Bumbl wrote: As it seems they have the contrary. They have a leader which seems to dictate everything without accepting ideas from the developers or the community. Well, that's just mean. It's not like they don't listen to the community or communicate with it, on ALL levels. But it's not like all community ideas can be implemented immideately, and that everyone can be made happy. Anarchy doesn't work even in open source. I think 2008.08 is in most ways a step forward. And in the things that aren't like that.. sometimes you have to take a half step back to get two steps forward. Constructive criticism is the best help one can give, but bitching is just stupid. Cheers, Kalle Dimitri wrote: It's hard to argue with your points, since the phone STILL can't connect to the internet *out-of-the-box*. (Who wants to manually hack a dozen files, or install some guy's half-working gui posted on some blog that requires google-translate to read?) Why the developers are spending time breaking things that were previously worked (see ASU keyboard), rather than fixing what's broken and in desperate need of fixing, is beyond me. Is it a lack of leadership? For this aggressive undertaking to be successful, it needs at least one person to prioritize, delegate, and lead the other developers. Is there such a person at Openmoko? If not, that's the problem. Having a team of developers, without clear leadership, is akin to herding cats :) D ted braak wrote: I have real doubts about the some Quality Assurance aspects of this team. Also I don't see real dedication and vision to get rid of bugs and produce something stable and usable. It looks like there is more effort in bringing us bling. I think bling is something that can be created by the community itself. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: InvibleShield at ZAGG : swindling ?!?
I got my order confirmation 27.7, shipping confirmation 28.7 and received it yesterday. I chose the slowest cheapes delivery, so I think it was in time. Delivery to France. Got one for my Nokia N810 too at the same time :) Cheers, Kalle Cédric DUFOUIL wrote: I finally received an answer from ZAGG. They say they will ship another one ... So now ... Wait See ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: usb networking no longer works
Hi, I had the same problem. IIRC it was resolved by flashing a new uboot to the device. cheers, Kalle Dimitri wrote: I've flashed the latest 2008.8 images, and the script I was previously using to connect to the phone via usb no longer works. What I used to run (with 2007.2 images) was the following script as sudo in Ubuntu: -- #!/bin/bash iptables -F ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 route add 192.168.0.202 usb0 iptables -I INPUT 1 -s 192.168.0.202 -j ACCEPT iptables -I OUTPUT 1 -s 192.168.0.200 -j ACCEPT iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24 bash -c echo '1 /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward' -- But now, it fails with errors. I ran it, line by line, the first line that fails is ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 with the error: -- SIOCSIFADDR: No such device usb0: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device SIOCSIFNETMASK: No such device -- What's going on? Dimitri ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Phonecalls hanging up
Hi, I just got out of a lengthy call which got hung up 4 times during the call. It seemed like it went to powersave mode. It might just be that the audio died, and the remote person hung up and called again. I did an upgrade to the newest 2007.2 today. I use the dim-first-then-lock option. Is the phone going to suspend even if a call is active? Kalle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
Nkoli wrote: On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having worked in Open-Hardware for over 15 years now, I was, in fact, expecting a much more coherent strategy for the software platform on Freerunner than just let the community decide. Certainly, the community aspect of this project is huge; I am not saying that it is not valuable to have such great public influence on the design; just that: there *has* to be a rigid design approach to guide development, or else we end up with a torn map navigating fork-city. Jay, your negative posts on this ML do nothing but foster an unpleasant atmosphere Actually I disagree a bit here. Jay is not trolling but just saying where he's trying to come from. I'm not saying that everybody should immideately agree with him, but this is one of the main points of having an open community. There NEEDS to be open criticism and discussion, it's not like there's only one truth. Trying to silence and belittle people who see differently is exactly what should be avoided. Trolling is one thing, but I think Linus is a great example. Having strong oppinions and stating them can be good, even if I don't always agree, but they're never at least unfounded. Kalle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How do you reply to an sms in 2007.2?
Hit the pen (lower right) when you have the message open.. Kalle William Kenworthy wrote: How do you reply to an sms in 2007.2? Does not seem to be possible. Is there any user documentation for the various standard apps? - they are not all that intuitive! BillK ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Public build host (proposal)
Stroller wrote: On 24 Jul 2008, at 06:22, Kalle Happonen wrote: John Mark Walker wrote: On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Yorick Moko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: by gratis he means without cost Oops... :) Yes, I mean free as in beer. Not to be a nitpick, but I think the official quote is free as in free beer which makes much more sense :). I have never seen the phrase used this way, only free as in beer (vs free as in speech). Yes, I have always also heard it like that. But then I saw a question to Stallman, that doesn't make sense, there's no real free beer? And he answered that no, but people are misquoting. It was originally free as in free speech, not as in free beer or something pretty close... If there are some real gpl stallman enthusiast there, feel free to flame me for mistelling/quoting/having proprietary nvidia drivers on the laptop.. Kalle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Public build host (proposal)
John Mark Walker wrote: On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Yorick Moko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: by gratis he means without cost Oops... :) Yes, I mean free as in beer. Not to be a nitpick, but I think the official quote is free as in free beer which makes much more sense :). In general I have a way too hard time to find free beer. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Launching apps in ASU
Hello, I just flashed to ASU (again, it's fun to play around :) ). I installed the vte terminal with opkg, and it installed nicely. Now I wonder how I can add it to the launcher, or how I can launch it at all? I can ofcourse do it with X forwarding over ssh, but that kind of misses the whole point :). If I'm not completely mistaken, the settings are in a sqlite database, and even if I do like fiddling, I wondered if there would be an easier way than playing with sqlite. Cheers, Kalle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Launching apps in ASU
Marcel wrote: Am Dienstag 22 Juli 2008 08:39:20 schrieb Kalle Happonen: Hello, I just flashed to ASU (again, it's fun to play around :) ). I installed the vte terminal with opkg, and it installed nicely. Now I wonder how I can add it to the launcher, or how I can launch it at all? I can ofcourse do it with X forwarding over ssh, but that kind of misses the whole point :). If I'm not completely mistaken, the settings are in a sqlite database, and even if I do like fiddling, I wondered if there would be an easier way than playing with sqlite. Simply add a new .desktop file for it to /usr/share/applications. :) ah, well that seems more than obvious. Is this in the wiki btw? I'm sure I'm not the first with this problem/question. Cheers, Kalle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Terminal for ASU
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:39:01 +0100 JW [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Where are the design documents which say no keyboard toggle button should be included, please? If one wishes to contribute code or patches to ASU then I guess it's necessary to know this, or one will find patches rejected because they don't meet this design specification? surely this is a prime candidate for a motion detection / gesture detection to bring up the keyboard easy - no extra button needed geeks who enable their gesture of choice get the keyboard when they want it carsten can you build in the sleeping gesture as you go? what gesture, where? how? how ill this be able to not conflict with operation of other apps? i am not so hot on gestures - especially ones that use up the whole screen or parts o the screen where apps run - as now gestures fight for usability with apps themselves. there is no coordination. example: if the gesture was slide up the screen from bottom to top - how is this gesture different from me dragging my finger to scroll a list in the application on my screen? how do i make sure only ONE of these happens (the keyboard pops up OR the scroll happens) and not both? I'm not sure, but I think he meant gesture as in accelerometer. Double tap the phone for instance, or tap it on the bottom and it slides up, and tap it on the top and it slides down... or... Kalle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anyone using FR as a phone?
Scott Derrick wrote: Its hard to believe the distro doesn't come pre-configured with settings that don't produce echo, very low volume, interference? It's hard to believe nobody has come up with Better Than Default settings, uploaded the config, and gotten it in the newest release :) Scott Cédric Berger wrote: People I had on the phone never complained about echo. When I asked, they said there was none. But they often complained about volume level too low... and maybe that's why there was no echo... (and they also complained about interference noise, which I heard too) I need to make more calls and change my volume settings to know more... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Import contacts qtopia
Greg Bonett wrote: Unofficial answer (as this is not tested by us... it is the code from trolltech as is so is likely to have issues) 1.) copy the the file vcf to the device 2.) /opt/Qtopia/bin/addressbook /path/to/vcf-file (will get deleted) 3.) GUI makes some stuff... asks you to import.. 4.) You might need to restart afterwards maybe someone comes up with a FAQ... z. Ah, thats seems easy. Can anyone confirm this method? (I'll try it as soon as I get home from work) Hmm I didn't get this to work. I didn't have a terminal on the phone, so I ran it with X forwarding, i.e. the windows opened on my laptop. I think I would have gotten them imported (vCard version 2.1, not 3 for some reason), but I found no way of confirmin the Would you like to import dialog. I didn't find a way to tell addressbook to autoimport, the documentation is a bit skimpy.. Cheers, Kalle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Rogers SIM (Canada) causing crash on Dialer
Sparrow wrote: Hi Folks, I have an issue with a rogers (Canada) SIM card crashing the dialer application when a call is started. After hitting dial on the dialer app the screen moves cuts over to the out going call screen and then the dial crashes. I have tried another SIM from a friend's 1st gen iPhone and it works without issue. This SIM does work in several other phones without issue. Where should I start to debug this issue? Thanks for your time and help. My Swiss Orange card shows the same symptoms, but only intermittently. Much of the time, I can call and receive calls. Sometimes after a the phone has been on for a while the dialer crashes when I try to call, or dialer looks like it's dialing, but nothing happens. When this happens I can't receive calls or sms's either. A reboot solves the problem. Any idea where to start debugging? I run the latest scaredycat (as of last thursday). I have also had dialing/receiving problems when I tested ASU. Cheers, Kalle Happonen Best Regards, Steven O'Reilly ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery Lifetime
Hi, I just installed script, and made a menu command for it to see what it does to my battery. However, the phone wakes up inside a few minutes. Someone earlier wrote: That's currently the crux of the problem, and why I don't yet use suspend. It resumes on cell registration messages, and each resume is another chance to fail. It also has to resume to accept a call, and not being able to reliably resume makes it an unreliable phone. So is the cell registration the problem? Is it normal that it wakes up from susped this often, which pretty much voids any benefits atm. I know it's under development, just curious. Cheers, Kalle Adam Talbot wrote: I am currently using the 20080716 build, from: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/ Try running the apm -s That will suspend to ram. I do this by hand every time I want the phone to suspend. The power button, or a call will wake it. Please keep in mind, suspend to ram is currently unstable. Just give it a 12~100 hour test, let me know. apm with out any arguments will give you the battery status. None of this is any good if I am the only one who can get these numbers ;-) -Adam On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 21:35 -0500, Steven ** wrote: I too am using the 2007.2 image upgraded. But I have no problem with dim+lock. I haven't had my FreeRunner for long enough to definitively say how long the battery will last. But I had it at work today, showing it off several times. The remaining time it mostly sat on my desk with dim+lock (I picked it up and played with something every 30 minutes or so). apm showed 61% at the end of the work day. Perhaps apm isn't accurate, but it would imply I could get quite a lot of standby time if I truly left the Freerunner alone. -Steven On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Christoph Anton Mitterer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How are you doing this? If I fully charge my GTA02 battery before I go to bed,.. it will be nearly empty when I wake up (I seep 7-8 hours),... Dim+nolock is choosen, as dim+lock seems to crash the device and I have to remove the battery to reboot (nothing else works). Does anybody else suffer from this? I'm using the 2007.2 image with everything upgraded... What are you using? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Jay Vaughan wrote: For something as evocative as this GPS/SD issue, I'd like to see at *least* daily updates posted to an official website or blog (not wiki). Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue *not* diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS testing issue is a *huge* screw up. No, the SD+GPS issue is a bug. Admittedly a somewhat nasty bug, but nothing extraordinary. The Debian key generation vulnerability was a *huge* screw up. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Jay Vaughan wrote: Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue *not* diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS testing issue is a *huge* screw up. No, the SD+GPS issue is a bug. Context:SD+Glamo == No go. SD+GPS == No go. How many GTA02's have been shipped before this problem was discovered? How much time wasted trying to get GPS functioning so that development can continue? Haha, compared to how many products has a big phone company shipped before fixing their hw bugs?, a neglible amount, and those to HC fans and supporters that know they are beta testers. Admittedly a somewhat nasty bug, but nothing extraordinary. If I can't use SD+GPS, its a no-brainer: Freerunner is no longer qualified for my project. Having spent a year on OpenMoko, thats nasty. I was willing to give the SD+Glamo issue a slide, but .. Well, then it's a big issue for you, which of course is crappy. But that's just it, it's a huge issue for *you*. In the grand scheme of things it's a bug, and a bug Joerg has told us to be patient about, and one where there will be a fix for. I'd just wait for the sw + hw fixes, and see what the result is. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found!
Marcus Bauer wrote: On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 08:45 +0200, Kalle Happonen wrote: Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue *not* diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS testing issue is a *huge* screw up. No, the SD+GPS issue is a bug. Admittedly a somewhat nasty bug, but nothing extraordinary. The Debian key generation vulnerability was a *huge* screw up. I don't follow your view. The Debian ssh bug was all but obvious. That's why it went for a long time unnoticed. Not being obvious doesn't mean it isn't a huge screw up. Small things can mean huge implications. The Debian bug immideately cut the foundation of a huge amount of security that relies on this, worldwide and in critical applications. Keys are expected to be practically uncrackable, and a *lot* is built on this assumption, so correct key generations should be a no-brainer (20-20 hindsight, I admit). So the debian bug was a huge screw up, but luckily I think it was fixed with a bad scare in most cases. However, the GPS is a basic feature and its malfunctioning is very obvious. If you buy a new car and the engine doesn't run you'll wonder if anybody ever drove around with it. Well, if you buy a beta first customer release car and the gps isn't working when you play a cd, You might think crap! well luckily they promised a fix in the end of the week, in time for the weekend trip to my parents. The same goes for making phone calls: there is quite often a buzzing sound on the far end and it can be really bad. Unless you don't care about the people you are calling the Neo is not usable as your daily phone. This IMHO is a much bigger problem, which has caught much less attention. Then there are the phones with a GSM modem that constantly re-registers. And there is still no word about which headsets are usable with the Neo. Don't mix up freedom with broken hardware! Don't mix first release beta phones with big-company market ready devices (which sometimes are market ready themselves, even with a lot more resources). I think this is just a bit bigger case of the whole gta02v5 vs gta02v6 led issue, that when quickly resolved actually was forgotten and even the word issue is too strong. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery Lifetime
thomasg wrote: Where ever you think you might have heard this: it's bullshit. Complete bullshit. Which of this? I agree with Scott, well, in a more understanding, and smiling way but still. I took the phone from the charger this morning, and it's almost dead now at the end of the workday, without me having used it at all. But I know there's work on improving this, and some nice results too, and I'm ok with this now. For real use, the current battery life just doesn't work in most cases. As for the other stuff in the mail, people have been fighting with sim cards, gsm (o/), gps (o/). But not to worry, improvement is on the way, and the speed that this moves on with the openmoko team and the community, I'm pretty sure this (and most other issues) will be solved sooner than later. On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Scott Derrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery lifetime people are seeing? I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large poll concerning users of mobile devices. What was the number 1 issue, far and above any other issue people are concerned about and want to see improvement. Yes, battery life. The times I've seen posted here are pathetic! 8 hours of standby! Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time! 8 hours of standby makes the FR a toy at best. I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit to accept a sim card, or make a call, get a gps fix, etc.. But I seriously can't use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery life. Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in that is granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using software? Scott -- - Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add within the limits of the law, because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. Thomas Jefferson ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Package and image signatures
Hi, would it be possible to add signatures for the packages and hashes for the images? The latter one should be easy and it could be pretty much automated in the build process. I agree that it doesn't help much, but it would stop some of possible malicious repo tampering. I'm not saying it will happen, but they got Ubuntu too so it's always a possibility :).. Having package signatures is a bit more work, at least if you want to do it well and securely, but I think this would be importat at latest when openmoko starts getting mirrors, just to make sure users get correct versions of software. Cheers, Kalle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Anyone using FR as a phone?
Hello, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote: Hi, Diego Fernández Durán escribió: I use the FR as a phone. And I trying to figure out where can I apply my C, C++, Gtk knowledge to help in the development. A list of small things that must be done will be appreciated, so anybody of us can use our free time to read the code, write a small patch and summit it to a om developer. :) I have using it also as a phone, almost as soon as I get one. It works fine. After a while I reflash it and screw it, but seems nothing serious. I will play with it tomorrow finding a solution. I also use it as a phone. Even with all the glitches it's better than my old one which I had by accident manhandled over a long time :). For me it works ok. The main problem is that now and then, after a boot, I can't call or receive calls even if I seem to be connected. Another boot usually solves this. With some kernel/image combination, I also had the problem that the gsm doesn't work after it goes to sleep... I have heard that my sound quality is poor though, but I haven't done further testing. Cheers. Kalle Cheers, Offray El dom, 13-07-2008 a las 10:11 +0200, Yorick Moko escribió: there is some talk about this on the devel-list: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003560.html http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003562.html http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003563.html On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 9:40 PM, Randy S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am curious to know if anyone is using their FR as a phone. Mine has such poor audio quality, it is unfortunately useless as a phone. The audio I hear is clear but at a very low volume; the other person hears my voice very distorted and with a buzz. I am on T-Mobile in Texas, USA. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery Lifetime
This is great news indeed! Since I'm adventurous, and thought I'd take the Freerunner into phone use immideately, this has been the biggest obstacle for normal use so far. With decent battery life I'd be a Very Happy User. Adam Talbot wrote: This is all with my FreeRunner. 144 hours, to be exact. Or, about 6 days of stand by time. Something like 4 hours of active talk time. Looks like you could get 8 days and 5 of talk, but I like every thing turned on. I have GPS running, but with out an SD card ;-). Currently using the built in APM for power management. Keep in mind suspend/resume is unstable. As I have seen many times. Still working on squashing the bugs. Currently do not have a working SIM to test wake up on call. Is there a way to stop the screen bumping issue? Perhaps unload the module that runs the touchscreen until there is a wake event (Auk key)? On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 22:26 -0500, Steven ** wrote: Last I read, they were getting like 100 hours standby with the new suspend/resume functionality. I don't know if there's an image that has those changes available though. It's not a hardware issue... -Steven On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Scott Derrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery lifetime people are seeing? I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large poll concerning users of mobile devices. What was the number 1 issue, far and above any other issue people are concerned about and want to see improvement. Yes, battery life. The times I've seen posted here are pathetic! 8 hours of standby! Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time! 8 hours of standby makes the FR a toy at best. I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit to accept a sim card, or make a call, get a gps fix, etc.. But I seriously can't use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery life. Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in that is granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using software? Scott -- - Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add within the limits of the law, because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. Thomas Jefferson ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: MokSec - The Security Framework
Hello, I've only had my freerunner for a week or so, so I'm not too into the security aspects yet. One thing I did notice was of course passwordless root login. Now over usb this can be acceptable, but if this is possible over wifi (I haven't actually tested), it needs the firewall / make it listen only to the usb. In addition to that, a separate encrypted partition for /root (or /home if the account will changed to a non-privileged user) could be nice, but maybe too heavy and battery draining? In addition to that, I'd say all linux security administration best practices should be at least considered, including automatic security updates. After the basic security is in good shape, one could move on to fun things like phone lock/unlock/shutdown with an sms, personal data backups / remote removal... the possibilities! :) Cheers, Kalle Yorick Moko wrote: This mail was posted on the devel list (http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-July/003594.html). Thought it would interest a lot of people who are not subscribed to that list: Hi Guys, a few months ago we have planned to improve the security of our beloved Neo, after we have read about desires of the community regarding to the security issue. And here we are. Today I will present you our project MokSec. What is MokSec? === MokSec is framework which target is to improve the security of the mobile devices which are based on OpenMoko (and other frameworks which are running on Neos) What is our main focus at the moment? = The main focus is the encryption over GSM. This is very complicated issue and for this we searching developer which are willing to work with us on this interesting project. What are the other components? == At the moment we only working on a phone firewall, which will be blocking/accepting incoming calls. Later one we will add other projects or developer will be able to add their projects. Were you can find more informations? http://moksec.networld.to : The main page http://moko.networld.to : The git repositories http://networld.to/mailman/listinfo/moksec-public : The mailinglist We hope that a lot of people will work with us on the security issue. Happy programming Alex Oberhauser ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Import Contacts
Andreas Dalsgaard wrote: 2008/7/12 Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Friday 11 July 2008, Kalle Happonen wrote: Hi, Brian C wrote: Brian C wrote: [a long error message because he didn't run the script from the OM terminal] Ok, so the script runs now that I realize it must be run from the OM terminal. It might work from an ssh session if you run: dbus-launch scriptname I haven't tried this though - just guessing based on similar behaviour from gconftool-2 However, it appears to have entered all null contacts and so far none of them appear to have any actual contact info in them If you do not want to delete all the null contacts by hand I've made a script(attached as remove_all_contacts.py) based on Wurps script which removes all contacts in your addressbook. It should be pretty easy to modify so that it only deletes null contacts. I ran into the same problem, but I did get them in now with the script. I had two issues actually. The easiest to try is to remove the empty lines between the entries in the vCard file, and have them all in a long jumble. That solved my last problem. Blank line removal should be a one-liner - if only I were more familiar with python ;-) Take a quick look at the attached import_contacts.py script, it is based on Al Johnson modification to Wurps script. Hah, thanks for fixing the script. I almost feel ashamed for not spending a few minutes to fix it up, but just did vim magic on my contacts files :). And thanks for the contact remover too! I did have another problem when I played around with the contacts in Evolution on the desktop. I started by exporting the contacts as vCard from Wammu. Evolution refused to read those v2.1 vCards. I then exported it as ldif from wammu, and had to make a small change in the entries so that evolution read them correctly (adding a cn or smth). AFAIK the openmoko contacts is also based on evolution so there might be similar problems. When I tried to import Wammu vCards, they showed up as null entries on openmoko. When I exported the contacts as vCard (3.0) from evolution, and removed the empty lines in the vCard file, I could import them to openmoko with the script. I'm not sure if the new vCard format helped any. Interesting...I remember having similar problems with OpenXchange a couple of years ago. It assumed v3 and didn't check the version in the vCard itself. You had to pick which interface to use depending on the vCard version. i wonder if Evolution Data Server is doing something similar? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: MokSec - The Security Framework
thomasg wrote: On 7/14/08, *Kalle Happonen* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've only had my freerunner for a week or so, so I'm not too into the security aspects yet. One thing I did notice was of course passwordless root login. Now over usb this can be acceptable, but if this is possible over wifi (I haven't actually tested), it needs the firewall / make it listen only to the usb. There's no need for a firewall at all (in fact it's probably the worst idea). Just set a root password (you're probably a win user, the command is simply passwd) and it'll be fine. What an insult! *slap* :P. No I'm not a windows user. and I can set the root password on my device, but defaults matter. And they matter a lot if openmoko will become more mass-market. A firewall migth be a bit heavy, I agree, every watt and cycle should try to be saved, but making dropbear just listen to the usb interface would be a pretty good compromise, if that is possible. However, later on an easily configurable firewall would be almost essential imho. Connecting to the phone (any port) over the wifi should (almost?)never be allowed as default. Even if the point with the phone is that users can do what they want, it doesn't mean that the apps they install shouldn't be protected. And a firewall is almost the only viable way. There's no easy way of making all the apps listen to just one interface, and while host.allow/deny is more lightweight than a firewall, those don't allow distinguishing of interface. In addition to that, a separate encrypted partition for /root (or /home if the account will changed to a non-privileged user) could be nice, but maybe too heavy and battery draining? Imho it's not needed to encrypt the whole system. Would be the better choice to have some crypto-containers for the files that really need to be secured (phonebook, messages, important documents). We had some discussion in IRC a while ago and my idea would No, not the whole system. But well the user homedir would be basically what we want to protect, and if it was on it's own partition, there is kernel support for it already. be to have that containers and a daemon in background who handles encryption/decryption, asks for passwords if needed and makes sure that applications who want access to a encrypted container get it (e.g. dialer wants to look up a number in the phonebook). This way the containers can stay decrypted while the phone is on and access is granted dynamically (as needed). I think completely dynamic decryption would be too cumbersone to use. If you mean that it would need an unlock for every received sms (to get the contact behind the number) and phone call, it's just unfeasible. If you want to protect the en/decryption key, it needs a passphrase that is long enough to be of any benefit. The other option is a PKI enabled SIM, which would be cool. Hence it should be unlocked only once, at bootup. The sim pin could also be saved on the encrypted partition (maybe the pin itself again encrypted with the passphrase, so it's not accessible easily at runtime) so that the user only needs to authenticate once to use the phone. There could be then options to forget the encryption key either locally or via a magic sms. Yeah, it's a little much effort, but there is no security without it. If you'd encrypt the whole rootfs you'd have it decrypted the whole time the phone is on (otherwise nothing would work), what means, the security is gone. No it doesn't. Everything NEEDS to be decrypted automagically when the phone is on. Otherwise it's just unusable. The whole system shouldn't be encrypted, that's just waste. But having a personal area decrypted at startup means that only you can access it at bootup, and one can add the option of remotely disabling access to it. That is very much security, way more than phones usually have nowadays, even more than laptops/desktops, but not too much to make it hard/annoying to use. Well, that's only a part of a possible security framework, but this are only some thoughts. In addition to that, I'd say all linux security administration best practices should be at least considered, including automatic security updates. It's a standard linux system with a lightweight, but still standard, packet management, so that's how it already is handeled (well, without the automatic, but I don't like automatic updating anyway). The fact that it has package management doesn't mean much in itself. I think current linux distributions have a pretty good model. A separate security updates repo, which just releases security patches, and since these are an security update of the recommended version, they don't (well shouldn't) break anything, so they can even be pretty safely applied automatically. Again, defaults matter. If you need to log in, run
Re: MokSec - The Security Framework
arne anka wrote: How would being root help somebody decrypt a filesystem? Accessing an encrypted filesystem should depend only on having the correct key. well, to be really usefull the fs should be mounted transparently (hacking in the passphrase on every access seems utterly tedious with that tiny keyboard -- and would probably add to the exposure risk). depends on what you mean on every access. If it's once per startup, I wouldn't think it's too much. How often do you reboot the phone? Cheers, Kalle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: MokSec - The Security Framework
arne anka wrote: wouldn't think it's too much. How often do you reboot the phone? with a battery uptime of about 8h -- at least once a day, because the fr usually silently shuts down. on weekends more frequently because i play around and something crashes or so. Well, this wasn't available now, was it? :). Since these are only plans, and afaik the powersave functionality will be vastly improved, that argument is hopefully invalid when the encryption is available. Kalle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: MokSec - The Security Framework
Tilman Baumann wrote: Paul Jimenez wrote: Alex Oberhauser wrote: Bumbl wrote: It would be more important to not run everything as root I think This will be also a main focus. When we receive the Freerunners, we will see how fast we can change this bad state. Personally, I'd be more interested in an encrypted filesystem so that I can worry less about snoopy people getting access to my personal data if I lose my phone or it's stolen. How many 'main focuses' are you allowed ? :) Can we use the SIM-Card to decrypt stuff? It's after all a smart card. :) Would be cool if we could store a crypto key on the SIM, which it will only release if you provide the right SIM. I don't think that's doable with normal SIMs. But there are places where you can get SIM cards with built in encyption/decryption keys, and a certificate (PKI). This is possible at least in Finland, but not widely used. If you had the PKI enabled SIM, I'd say it wouldn't only be cool, it would be THE way to go, as far as security and ease of use goes. :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: MokSec - The Security Framework
Jan de Haan wrote: On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Kalle Happonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But there are places where you can get SIM cards with built in encyption/decryption keys, and a certificate (PKI). I agree. Would you care to elaborate (link)? Sincerely, Sure, the only one I know about directly is this, it's coordinated by the Finninsh government, and naturally only available in finland. http://www.vrk.fi/vrk/home.nsf/pages/FE039B4246B8FED9C22572450036E7E6?opendocument ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: MokSec - The Security Framework
Tilman Baumann wrote: Kalle Happonen wrote: Jan de Haan wrote: On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Kalle Happonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But there are places where you can get SIM cards with built in encyption/decryption keys, and a certificate (PKI). I agree. Would you care to elaborate (link)? Sincerely, Sure, the only one I know about directly is this, it's coordinated by the Finninsh government, and naturally only available in finland. http://www.vrk.fi/vrk/home.nsf/pages/FE039B4246B8FED9C22572450036E7E6?opendocument I wish more governments would be so progressive. *g* We in Germany are botching around on this idea for years with apparently no result. But at least our politicians have the will to implement anonymous signatures, which is rather cool. Sometimes you just want to prove that you are real, and not who you actually are. Well, off topic... Congrats Finland. ;) Well it looks cool, but in practice... there's maybe 1 service that accepts these.. maybe. And the operators are clueless about it. I agree, it's great to have this infrastructure, but without services, it's just a virtual finnish penis ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: MokSec - The Security Framework
thomasg wrote: On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 5:22 PM, arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course you can create another user, as you are used to on any unix system. It just doesn't ship with one because the distro comes in ready-to-deploy images, not with a installer like the binary-distro-people are used to. sure? i think it possible that some things won't work when non-root ... Of course some things won't work - if they would, there would be no need for a special root account. Basically all the tools someone would use without a terminal should work (dialer, contacs, ...) no matter what stack is used. The daemons that need root access run in background and can be controlled by userspace-programs without root-access. If of course would take a loginmanager or similar to use a user with password at startup, because currently the user root is automatically logged in. Should be easy to fix. Even running only critical things as root, and most stuff on a no-password unprivileged account would be better. But an user account with a password a would of course be better. The I'd say that the PIN could almost be saved somewhere, to avoid the need for a double log-in. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: MokSec - The Security Framework
thomasg wrote: On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Kalle Happonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What an insult! *slap* :P. No I'm not a windows user. and I can set the root password on my device, but defaults matter. And they matter a lot if openmoko will become more mass-market. A firewall migth be a bit heavy, I agree, every watt and cycle should try to be saved, but making dropbear just listen to the usb interface would be a pretty good compromise, if that is possible. Ok, sorry, that was a too mean joke :P I forgive you :) The situation with no root password set is of course not bearable, but I'm pretty sure that this issue will be solved in a consumer-ready release. What I'd imagine would be a kind of first-run-guide, that forces (or allows, however you want :) ) the user to do all the important settings at the first run of the phone (could be used for backup purposes, too, e.g. load an xml-file with the settings). Would make the life way easier for newbies. That would make sense yes. And since it's a pretty complex device, a first-run setup is almost needed anyway. However, later on an easily configurable firewall would be almost essential imho. Connecting to the phone (any port) over the wifi should (almost?)never be allowed as default. Even if the point with the phone is that users can do what they want, it doesn't mean that the apps they install shouldn't be protected. And a firewall is almost the only viable way. There's no easy way of making all the apps listen to just one interface, and while host.allow/deny is more lightweight than a firewall, those don't allow distinguishing of interface. A firewall is always a more or less big piece of software, always not the best for performance, and always a security risk (if it's not dedicated). It also is not possible to do a easy and _good_ configuration, so however it's done, it's always suboptimal. There are not too much services running, and all of them are open source software, so that is imho not that a big deal. iptables fits into a small kernel, that's not big software :). It might have some performance hits, but with these traffic amounts it shouldn't matter. The big but is of course the frontend to it. And open source software isn't immune to vulnerabilities :). Security patches help, but if possible, I'd still go for a firewall. In addition to that, a separate encrypted partition for /root (or /home if the account will changed to a non-privileged user) could be nice, but maybe too heavy and battery draining? Imho it's not needed to encrypt the whole system. Would be the better choice to have some crypto-containers for the files that really need to be secured (phonebook, messages, important documents). We had some discussion in IRC a while ago and my idea would No, not the whole system. But well the user homedir would be basically what we want to protect, and if it was on it's own partition, there is kernel support for it already. be to have that containers and a daemon in background who handles encryption/decryption, asks for passwords if needed and makes sure that applications who want access to a encrypted container get it (e.g. dialer wants to look up a number in the phonebook). This way the containers can stay decrypted while the phone is on and access is granted dynamically (as needed). I think completely dynamic decryption would be too cumbersone to use. If you mean that it would need an unlock for every received sms (to get the contact behind the number) and phone call, it's just unfeasible. If you want to protect the en/decryption key, it needs a passphrase that is long enough to be of any benefit. The other option is a PKI enabled SIM, which would be cool. Hence it should be unlocked only once, at bootup. The sim pin could also be saved on the encrypted partition (maybe the pin itself again encrypted with the passphrase, so it's not accessible easily at runtime) so that the user only needs to authenticate once to use the phone. There could be then options to forget the encryption key either locally or via a magic sms. Yeah, it's a little much effort, but there is no security without it. If you'd encrypt the whole rootfs you'd have it decrypted the whole time the phone is on (otherwise nothing would work), what means, the security is gone. No it doesn't. Everything NEEDS to be decrypted automagically when the phone is on. Otherwise it's just unusable. The whole system shouldn't be encrypted, that's just waste. But having a personal area decrypted at startup means that only you can access
Accessing the freerunner filesystem
Hi all, I was wondering what the easiest way to access freerunner's filesystem from a computer. Or just copy over files. If i got the wlan up, it would be one way, but for that I apparently need to write the wpa supplicant conf, and I prefer not doing that on the phone :). I could probalby just make a new image with the files included, but is there an easier way? I could probably copy it over to the flash card on the laptop, but that also means removing the battery and sim for every change. Cheers, Kalle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Accessing the freerunner filesystem
Ah, how could I have been so blind and missed that part. Thanks, just what I needed. Cheers, Kalle arne anka wrote: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Import Contacts
Hi, Brian C wrote: Brian C wrote: [a long error message because he didn't run the script from the OM terminal] Ok, so the script runs now that I realize it must be run from the OM terminal. However, it appears to have entered all null contacts and so far none of them appear to have any actual contact info in them I ran into the same problem, but I did get them in now with the script. I had two issues actually. The easiest to try is to remove the empty lines between the entries in the vCard file, and have them all in a long jumble. That solved my last problem. I did have another problem when I played around with the contacts in Evolution on the desktop. I started by exporting the contacts as vCard from Wammu. Evolution refused to read those v2.1 vCards. I then exported it as ldif from wammu, and had to make a small change in the entries so that evolution read them correctly (adding a cn or smth). AFAIK the openmoko contacts is also based on evolution so there might be similar problems. When I tried to import Wammu vCards, they showed up as null entries on openmoko. When I exported the contacts as vCard (3.0) from evolution, and removed the empty lines in the vCard file, I could import them to openmoko with the script. I'm not sure if the new vCard format helped any. Hope it helps, Kalle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear - what market
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:16:40 + Jorge . [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Robert Taylor wrote: On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract. If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than the $600 the phone is worth. The first iPhone was released june 29/2007 and the first hacked that allow you to use it with any operator was announced on july 9/2007. It will happen again and unlocked iPhones 3G will be available, it does not matter if the first bunch are stolen, second hand or refurbished, it short time everyone will be able to buy an iPhone 3G without contract for almost the same price than it contract. Then we will be able to compare unsubsidized iphones with moko. until that moment lets end the flame :-) but if I am right the iPhone will be cheaper even unsubsidized. (although i would buy a moko anyway) not so simple. i think he business plan is changing because before this happened with the 1st iphone. people could buy without contract. it was assumed that the phone lock would force people to get a contract anyway and apple bore the risk by losing out on their cut of the carrier's revenue (att). so they sold it at $399 or $499 etc. and din't get any money from att after that. now it changes with the 3g iphone. you must sign up when you buy. sure - you can now take that phone, unlock it, re-sell it, but you are stuck with a contract you must keep paying for... with no phone to use on that contract unless you buy another phone - outright. there will be contract termination clauses if you want to cancel then and this will help cover the subsidy - of not completely cover it and then some. This is how I've understood it too, so this means there would be no cheap unlocked iPhones on the market in any significant volume. But the next thing to consider is what market/audience is the main target of OM. It seems some places (US) you'll end up to pay the same for the contract with or without a subsidised phone, which makes OM pricey compared to other options. In many places in europe however you can get much cheaper contracts without an included phone. In Finland (which is a best case scenario, granted) for example, I would never touch a phone+subscription combo, partly thanks to a good legislation. So in many (most?) countries in europe OM + a contract could be significantly cheaper than iPhone. I can't say about the asian market, but I think the imporant thing to consider where the most phones are expected to be sold. Another thing to consider is the target audience of GTA02. Are people who consider getting GTA02 also considering iPhone, or is it more of a geek/hacker (GTA02) - ooh look at me, I'm so trendy (iPhone) split, in which case the problem isn't a big deal to begin with. sure - some (a very few) phones will somehow be smuggled from the factory or from shipments before they get to an apple or att or other carrier store, and some may be sold under the counter without contract - but i guarantee that that likely is a business losing proposition for anyone as they get a rebate once they sign you on a contract. selling without a contract will mean hey have to jack up the price to cover the lost rebate money. as such - legal, legitimate and easy to get 3g iphones WITHOUT contract are going to be much more than $199. furthermore the freedom, there is a war for the smartphones market and a freephone have to be competitive in price, not only in quality and philosophy. This is only true if you do what you are insisting on doing, comparing things that are not of equal value. While it is fine for consumers to be ignorant of these facts and actually think your argument is valid, it's not correct on this thread as you are clearly educated and understand the reality of the situation. not equal value? Moko, iPhone, iRiver, Blackberry... we are talking about smartphones, and money is money. If you buy an orange, and apple or a pinable you pay with money!! every fruit have advantages and disadvantages, but you pay anyway _ Do more with your photos with Windows Live Photo Gallery. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_photos_022008 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sillyness: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
Michael Kluge wrote: 7. Apple currently defines the PDA/mobile marketplace. No, the smartphone market is dominated by the Blackberry. Dominate and define are different things. Blackberry might dominate (only in US though), but now Apple has the new cool thing, and every manufacturer from Samsung to Nokia make releases of similar models at the same time. So Apple does define the smartphone market for a given cusomer segment. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: comparing Apples and Oranges $199 iPhone Freerunner GTA02
Hello, I won't coment on the techical specs, but the pricing is in no way comparable. The iPhone v2 might be 199$, but that's with a 2 year ATT subscription. If you want a real comparison of the real device price, at least double the iPhone price. There was some country where Apple had to sell the original iPhone separately too because of the law (france? gremany?), and then it was priced 799€ or thereabouts iirc. So to compare the actual phone price, I think iPhone is even more expensive. Cheers, Kalle Ron K. Jeffries wrote: [I trust this will not initiate a flame war.] Please? iPhone v2 announced today. I'd like to understand on a hardware basis ONLY (I grok the value of free and open source) how does the entry level $199 iPhone with 4GB compare with Freerunner GTA02. where I get lost is how much RAM iPhone has vs Freerunner. I realize I can buy high capacity microSD flash card to match iPhone flash capacity are these assertions correct? Apple has: -- 3G data [much faster than Freeruner's GPRS] -- faster processor -- larger physical screen size (but about the same dpi?) -- 2 megapixel camera -- proximity sensor (knows when held to face, can dim screen) the two smart phones are aprox equal on -- wi-fi -- accelerometer -- bluetooth Ron K. Jeffries http://www.retaggr.com/Card/RonKJeffries ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: comparing Apples and Oranges $199 iPhone Freerunner GTA02
arne anka wrote: It's 8GB not 4 and it's $199 with a 2yr contract. Regular retail prices have yet to be announced. as i understand, 199 is apple's price -- providers may subsidise the iphone, too. No, 199$ is a operator subsidised price. from http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/the-cost-of-the-199-iphone-10-more-per-month-for-data/ According to a press release from ATT, the carrier will no longer give a portion of monthly usage fees to Apple. Instead carriers will pay Apple a subsidy for each phone sold, in order to bring the price from $399 down to $199 for the 8 Gigabyte model. later in the same Now Apple will get its money, say $500, up front and it no longer has to police what people do with them. which I guess is a fair estimate. What this means is of course significantly higher monthly fees. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: resolution preferences??
Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: On 6/6/08, NeilBrown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, June 6, 2008 3:39 pm, Carsten Haitzler wrote: we can just drive the vga screen at qvga. no need for scaling - just change the output at the lcd controller level. but it is a waste to pay for a vga screen when we won't use it. also it does look blocky. it isn't about glamo or not - it's separate to glamo entirely. simply - how important is a vga screen... really? how many people out there can really see the difference? be really honest. stop thinking my specs are bigger than your specs. scan u REALLY see all the pixels on a vga screen of that size. i bet to most people its all a blur - a qvga screen looks identical to them. only to a minority who have very good eyesight does it really make a difference, but this is just my bet. i'm asking the question - and hoping for real honest answers. Well, it's hard to know without having an actual device to look at, but I'll try My notebook has a 15 inch 1920x1200 monitor which comes to 147dpi. The Freerunner is 285dpi, the pixels are very close to half the width/ height of my pixels. So at first I thought wow, that's tiny. I don't think I need them *that* small - and I have better than average eye sight. Then I resized my browser to 640x480 and found I could read it quite well, though lots of web pages don't quite fit. I took a screenshot of the window and displayed it at 50% in the GIMP. So presumably that is how the image could look on the Freerunner. No. Now you need to zoom 2x. Then compare the original with this. They should occupy the same amount of space on your screen, but the QVGA should only have half the pixels. No again :). Someone has mentioned this before, but I thought I'd clear this up since it's come up a few times. QVGA stands for Quarter VGA (320*240 = 75kpix), so it's 1/4 of the pixels of real VGA (640*480 = 300kpix). Half the height and you have half the pixels, after that half the width and 1/4 remains. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Illume / ASU on GTA01 - Video
thomasg wrote: Hi list, there are still many people who don't know about ASU, and about the change in the Openmoko distribution - and there are not many videos, too. So I decided to do a small video to show what it looks like, what it behaves like and some of the next-generation apps. I took my Neo (still gta01), flashed one of the qtopia-x11 images[1] (that's what ASU is at moment!) and played around. It's far away from being complete, it's not perfect and it surely doesn't show what will come, but I hope it will show you what the softwareguys at openmoko are working on and what the future will look alike. Here it is: http://videos.gstaedtner.net/openmoko/illume_intro.mkv (16 MB, ~3.5 min) I hope you don't mind getting no crappy flashvideo this time, but a 500 kbps h264 with vorbis sound. Feel free to download, share, and whatever you want. P.S. Excuse my bad english, I'm not a native speaker :( Thanks for the great vid. It's exciting to see what we'll be able to get our hands on. And epic music :). And my 2 cents (eurocents), downloadable real video flash in most cases. Kalle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Stylus Recommendation
I've actually thought about the stylus issue, and it's a small shame that there isn't storage for the stylus within the freerunner itself. One idea would be to make a magnetic flat stylys that should attach itself to the back of the Freerunner? Its profile could be be shaped like this |) with a place for a nail to get it loose, and pointy ends. This way it would probably stay with the freerunner and it would be easily accessible. I'd probably try doing something like this myself if I had some experience in that field. Cheers, Kalle Tom Russell wrote: I like to have both a pen and stylus handy but hate carrying more than necessary. I found a very small (10cm, closed) combo from Fisher http://www.spacepen.com/Public/Products/BulletPen/Stylus/index.cfm?productID=74 It doesn't take up much space in my pocket, so I can carry it everywhere. While I look forward to the multi-function stylus that will come with my Freerunner (my cat loves laser pointers), this has been a great tool. Regards, Tom ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: new main page of our wiki
Sebastian Hammerl wrote: Steven Le Roux schrieb: crash your win, install a debian/gentoo or any other real good OS... then try again :) i use linux with opera no windows! Ah, so do I, but it looks good here. You might want to play around with the author mode/user mode settings (and/or update to newest opera). If this page doesn't look good, there's a big chance that other pages have problems as well. Cheers, Kalle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Accelerometer brainstorming
Alexey Feldgendler wrote: Do you think it's possible to use traits of a person's walk for identification? Never heard about something like this. Interesting idea, if it turns out implementable. I remember seeing some research results about this a few years back. Using a phone with accelerometers they managed to identify different persons from their walk with about a 90% accuracy IIRC. So it seems to be completely feasible, but I doubt that it's trivial. Kalle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
