[css-d] Question about standards compliant mode in IE

[Claude Needham]

Rumor has it that by using the proper doctype it is possible to force
IE to operate in a standards compliant mode -- and thus avoid (in that
one situation at least) the quirks that one might otherwise confront.

I have two standard-ish header templates I'm working with. (i.e.
flailing in the dark).
4.01 strict and XHTML 1.0 Strict.

It annoys me that apparently I need to leave off the "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd";>











http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd";>
http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml";>








 removed from its proper
position at top of file because of rumors that it will put some
version of IE into quirks mode.
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Re: [css-d] 2 more problems (div width issues)

[David Laakso]

Rory Bernstein wrote:
>   
>>
>>> On this page:
>>> http://rorybernstein.com/francesca_proto/book1.html
>>>
>>>   
> Now I have to get the layout working in ie7! The book images are pushed down 
> way too low on the page. Any suggestions?
>
> Rory
>
>
>   







The correction for IE 7.0 is:
*:first-child+html #book_images {min-height: 1px;}
Reference: 

Best,
Helen Keller




-- 
desktop
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/
mobile
http://chelseacreekstudio.mobi/

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Re: [css-d] 2 more problems (div width issues)

[Rory Bernstein]

On Mar 19, 2010, at 3:23 PM, Peter Abramowicz wrote:

> On 19/03/2010 9:14 AM, Rory Bernstein wrote:
>> 
>> Peter, thank you for this solution. It works perfectly. Now I just have to 
>> ask: How are the photos in #book_images being aligned to the bottom of the 
>> div? I don't understand what makes that happen. There doesn't seem to be any 
>> rule for that. I am mystified!
>> 
>> A new question for everyone!
>> 
>> On this page:
>> http://rorybernstein.com/francesca_proto/book1.html
>> 
>> The text in the left nav that is contained in  is not 
>> getting as small as I want it (this the black text starting with "The 
>> Portraits of Francisco Clemente..."). This is the CSS for .small:
>> .small {font-size: 0.8em;}
>> 
>> But I can't seem to get it go go any smaller. The rule works when I make the 
>> text bigger. Is there some sort of "floor" to font-size that won't let me 
>> make it smaller?
> Hi Rory,
> 
> The answer to your first question is that the default settings in browsers 
> for images is vertical-align: baseline.
> 
> As to the font size, this could be an issue with your browser settings, I was 
> able to quickly made text completely unreadable in both ff and ie. Here is an 
> article I would recommend -http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_1_03_04.html.
> 
> -- 
> Peter Abramowicz
> Arachne Web Designs
> 403.990.6016
> www.arachne-design.com

Re: font size: Ah, I see. I looked at the page on another computer and sure 
enough the font is smaller.

Thanks for the info on vertical-align: baseline. I did not know that.

I so appreciate your help. Now I have to get the layout working in ie7! The 
book images are pushed down way too low on the page. Any suggestions?

Rory

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Re: [css-d] 2 more problems (div width issues)

[Peter Abramowicz]

On 19/03/2010 9:14 AM, Rory Bernstein wrote:
> Peter, thank you for this solution. It works perfectly. Now I just 
> have to ask: How are the photos in #book_images being aligned to the 
> bottom of the div? I don't understand what makes that happen. There 
> doesn't seem to be any rule for that. I am mystified!
>
> A new question for everyone!
>
> On this page:
> http://rorybernstein.com/francesca_proto/book1.html
>
> The text in the left nav that is contained in  is 
> not getting as small as I want it (this the black text starting with 
> "The Portraits of Francisco Clemente..."). This is the CSS for .small:
> .small {font-size: 0.8em;}
>
> But I can't seem to get it go go any smaller. The rule works when I 
> make the text bigger. Is there some sort of "floor" to font-size that 
> won't let me make it smaller?
Hi Rory,

The answer to your first question is that the default settings in 
browsers for images is vertical-align: baseline.

As to the font size, this could be an issue with your browser settings, 
I was able to quickly made text completely unreadable in both ff and ie. 
Here is an article I would recommend 
-http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_1_03_04.html.

-- 

Peter Abramowicz
Arachne Web Designs
403.990.6016
www.arachne-design.com 

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Re: [css-d] IE problem

[Atkinson, Sarah]

I think I got the giant white box fixed... I added display: block and position: 
relative; to a few divs then I had to change the z-index on a couple of other 
items to compensate. This caused a couple of other problems to develop in 
safari but I think I have got it.


On 3/19/10 1:22 PM, "Claude Needham"  wrote:

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 8:28 AM, Atkinson, Sarah
 wrote:
> I have been working on this yesterday and today And I simply can't figure it 
> out.
> It is a wordpress site. And it just is giving me some very weird giant white 
> box display problems win IE6 and 7.
>
>  http://test.grantstinn.com/

Hello Sarah,

In IE6, I am not seeing what I would call a "giant white box" in the
above sample page.

I do see two issues.

1) The png images are not displayed properly. This is a common problem
with IE6. There are known methods for handling png in IE6. Me, I'm a
coward. I just use gif and jpg.

2) There is a 10 px margin between the light brown background content
box and the darker brown border like line.

For me, given my attitude about folks still using IE 6 in the light of
current hyper-security risks, I would just pretend that I wanted the
10px margin at the bottom of the page. And let the IE6 users have a
slightly different viewer experience. If this is a job for a client
try browbeating them into upgrading to IE8 .

Given the ultra weirdness of Wordpress/Addon css handling. I would try
saving the document onto your hard-drive using something like the
Firefox save complete document.

Then you can edit the page removing stuff bit by bit until you isolate
the problem without the extra complexity of potential cross
interactions between different style sheets.

If your "giant white box" is a different effect than I am seeing in my
particular IE6, perhaps you could point to an image displaying the
behavior.

Regards,
Claude
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Re: [css-d] IE problem

[Atkinson, Sarah]

They arn't there they are put in there on the server before it serves the file. 
They are called and the header html is compiled with the get_header() function. 
This looks at all the loaded plugins and installs the necessary files. As well 
as the header info I put into the header.php file.
I could uninstall the plug ins but then nothing would work.
Right now I have 5 plugins installed.
One for SEO (it's whats throwing the B&B errors.) It allows our content person 
to manage meta data, and she used the '&'.
One for Magic-fields - in the back end it lets me create panels for items.. For 
instance they get a new friend for the friends page. I created a panal in tools 
for them to select new friend and then they fill out some data and whala the 
content of the page just changed without me even having to no about it. It is 
also probably the most important plugin I have.
Then there is the Contact Forms- again they can change any of it If a month 
from now they find they need a new bit of info then it can be added by them.
There is also one for shadowbox. It has all the needed JS and integrates it 
into the back end of wordpress. It is very file intensive but looks realy nice 
and we use it a lot.
The last is Google Analytics.

And then there is wordpress itself... It is a monster but it does separate 
content from presentation.




On 3/19/10 1:03 PM, "Bill Braun"  wrote:



Atkinson, Sarah wrote:
> I'll tread very lightly here, Sarah. There seems to be a lot of styles
> that are either redundant or conflicting. I did not examine them with
> any rigor, it is a first impression. Also, it looks like you are linked
> to five different external style sheets. Are they all necessary? There
> may be conflicts between/among them that would be hard to track down.
>
> Bill B
>
> Those have to do with Wordpress Plugins... Some of the plugins auto load 
> their own stylesheets.
> Wordpress is a decent CMS but it does have issues with massive amounts of 
> loaded files and it makes a mess of CSS files and JS files.
>


Can you remove the  references from your HTML
documents?

Bill B


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Re: [css-d] IE problem

[Claude Needham]

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 8:28 AM, Atkinson, Sarah
 wrote:
> I have been working on this yesterday and today And I simply can't figure it 
> out.
> It is a wordpress site. And it just is giving me some very weird giant white 
> box display problems win IE6 and 7.
>
>  http://test.grantstinn.com/

Hello Sarah,

In IE6, I am not seeing what I would call a "giant white box" in the
above sample page.

I do see two issues.

1) The png images are not displayed properly. This is a common problem
with IE6. There are known methods for handling png in IE6. Me, I'm a
coward. I just use gif and jpg.

2) There is a 10 px margin between the light brown background content
box and the darker brown border like line.

For me, given my attitude about folks still using IE 6 in the light of
current hyper-security risks, I would just pretend that I wanted the
10px margin at the bottom of the page. And let the IE6 users have a
slightly different viewer experience. If this is a job for a client
try browbeating them into upgrading to IE8 .

Given the ultra weirdness of Wordpress/Addon css handling. I would try
saving the document onto your hard-drive using something like the
Firefox save complete document.

Then you can edit the page removing stuff bit by bit until you isolate
the problem without the extra complexity of potential cross
interactions between different style sheets.

If your "giant white box" is a different effect than I am seeing in my
particular IE6, perhaps you could point to an image displaying the
behavior.

Regards,
Claude
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Re: [css-d] IE problem

[Bill Braun]

Atkinson, Sarah wrote:
> I'll tread very lightly here, Sarah. There seems to be a lot of styles
> that are either redundant or conflicting. I did not examine them with
> any rigor, it is a first impression. Also, it looks like you are linked
> to five different external style sheets. Are they all necessary? There
> may be conflicts between/among them that would be hard to track down.
>
> Bill B
>
> Those have to do with Wordpress Plugins... Some of the plugins auto load 
> their own stylesheets.
> Wordpress is a decent CMS but it does have issues with massive amounts of 
> loaded files and it makes a mess of CSS files and JS files.
>   


Can you remove the  references from your HTML 
documents?

Bill B


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Re: [css-d] IE problem

[Atkinson, Sarah]

I'll tread very lightly here, Sarah. There seems to be a lot of styles
that are either redundant or conflicting. I did not examine them with
any rigor, it is a first impression. Also, it looks like you are linked
to five different external style sheets. Are they all necessary? There
may be conflicts between/among them that would be hard to track down.

Bill B

Those have to do with Wordpress Plugins... Some of the plugins auto load their 
own stylesheets.
Wordpress is a decent CMS but it does have issues with massive amounts of 
loaded files and it makes a mess of CSS files and JS files.
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Re: [css-d] Question about how to handle div height with floating children

[Claude Needham]

> Bobby: http://www.fiveminuteargument.com/float-container
> Thierry: 
> http://tjkdesign.com/articles/clearing-floats_and_block-formatting_context.asp

Thank you both for the explanations. I think I have a much better idea
why this behavior is necessary as the default. And I have a better
idea on how to handle it.

I must say though, that Thierry's article reintroduced me to the "hell
in a can of worms" known as cross-browser compatibility. Periodically
I make resolutions (of the New Year's variety) to be more
cross-browser compatible. Then I fall into blissful sleep forgetting
about everything other than Firefox and IE7+.

Now at least I have another resource when making fresh attempts to
handle those other browsers properly.

Thanks for the help. Much appreciated.
Claude Needham
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Re: [css-d] IE problem

[Bill Braun]

Atkinson, Sarah wrote:
> I have been working on this yesterday and today And I simply can't figure it 
> out.
> It is a wordpress site. And it just is giving me some very weird giant white 
> box display problems win IE6 and 7.
>
>  http://test.grantstinn.com/
> __
>   
I'll tread very lightly here, Sarah. There seems to be a lot of styles 
that are either redundant or conflicting. I did not examine them with 
any rigor, it is a first impression. Also, it looks like you are linked 
to five different external style sheets. Are they all necessary? There 
may be conflicts between/among them that would be hard to track down.

Bill B


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Re: [css-d] IE problem

[David Postill]

On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:28:11 -0400, Atkinson, Sarah wrote:

| I have been working on this yesterday and today And I simply can't figure it 
out.
| It is a wordpress site. And it just is giving me some very weird giant white 
box display problems win IE6 and 7.
| 
|  http://test.grantstinn.com/

You have errors:



-- 
David Postill
Dance your Life - Biodanza in Holland - 
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Re: [css-d] IE problem

[Bill Braun]

CSS validation is pointing to a style sheet that cannot be found. Also, 
there are some HTML validation errors. About half refer to how the 
phrase "b & b" is being treated, but there are some  related errors.

Bill B

Atkinson, Sarah wrote:
> I have been working on this yesterday and today And I simply can't figure it 
> out.
> It is a wordpress site. And it just is giving me some very weird giant white 
> box display problems win IE6 and 7.
>
>  http://test.grantstinn.com/
> __
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>
>
>   

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Re: [css-d] IE problem

[James White]

I was able to get it to display with IE dev tools by adding zoom: 1 to
the contentWrapper id to trigger haslayout.

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Atkinson, Sarah
 wrote:
> I have been working on this yesterday and today And I simply can't figure it 
> out.
> It is a wordpress site. And it just is giving me some very weird giant white 
> box display problems win IE6 and 7.
>
>  http://test.grantstinn.com/
> __
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>
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[css-d] IE problem

[Atkinson, Sarah]

I have been working on this yesterday and today And I simply can't figure it 
out.
It is a wordpress site. And it just is giving me some very weird giant white 
box display problems win IE6 and 7.

 http://test.grantstinn.com/
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Re: [css-d] 2 more problems (div width issues)

[Rory Bernstein]

On Mar 19, 2010, at 2:37 AM, Peter Abramowicz wrote:

> On 18/03/2010 2:40 PM, Rory Bernstein wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All, me again. 
>> 
>> http://rorybernstein.com/francesca_proto/book1.html
>> 
>> So, I now have a new page. On the URL above, I have 2 problems:
>> 
>> 1. I want the div called #book_images to have the images it containts to sit 
>> on the bottom of that div (bottom aligned). I tried changing the position to 
>> absolute and using bottom: 0; but it does not work; it puts the whole div in 
>> a totally different place (moves it up and almost totally out of the 
>> window). Here's the rules for that div now (the blue border is just so you 
>> can see it better):
>> #book_images {
>> position: relative;
>> border: 1px solid blue;
>> width: auto;
>> overflow: hidden;
>> }
>> 
>> 2. I want that same div to always be just as wide as it needs to be to 
>> contain whatever images might be there, as they go out horizontally to the 
>> right. If the images are fewer, I don't want the page to scroll out farther 
>> than it needs to go. Currently, its parent-parent container 
>> (#nav_item_container) has a fixed width; if I don't use this fixed width, 
>> the whole div moves down under #nav. And, I don't want to break the layout 
>> if the images that get put in there exceed that width. How do I code this 
>> for a variable width in the best way? Part of the trouble seems to be that 
>> my #nav div has to have a fixed width (200px), because it has text in in 
>> that I want to wrap if that text gets longer (don't want the text in there 
>> to push that div wider). So, since that has a fixed width, the layout gets 
>> messed up if I don't set a fixed width for the parent-parent div. Am I being 
>> unreasonable to expect that I can have a changing width for this div, and 
>> that they will always keep going ou
>> t
>>   to the right, and keep the scrollbars to always fit to the existing width 
>> of the images, even as that changes? This will go into a CMS and the client 
>> will have the freedom to put a lot of images in there, and I want it to work 
>> at whatever width those images turn out to be. 
>> 
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Rory
>>   
> Try this:
> 
> #nav_item_container {
> 
> }
> 
> #item {
> padding: 0 0 20px 0;
> }
> 
> #book_images {
> white-space: nowrap;
> }
> 
> #book_images img {
> padding-right: 10px;
> }
> 
> -- 
> Peter Abramowicz
> Arachne Web Designs
> 403.990.6016
> www.arachne-design.com

Peter, thank you for this solution. It works perfectly. Now I just have to ask: 
How are the photos in #book_images being aligned to the bottom of the div? I 
don't understand what makes that happen. There doesn't seem to be any rule for 
that. I am mystified!

A new question for everyone!

On this page:
http://rorybernstein.com/francesca_proto/book1.html

The text in the left nav that is contained in  is not 
getting as small as I want it (this the black text starting with "The Portraits 
of Francisco Clemente..."). This is the CSS for .small:
.small {font-size: 0.8em;}

But I can't seem to get it go go any smaller. The rule works when I make the 
text bigger. Is there some sort of "floor" to font-size that won't let me make 
it smaller?

Thanks for your help with the horizontal div problem; much, much appreciated!
Rory





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Re: [css-d] Question about how to handle div height with floating children

[Thierry Koblentz]

> The issue is when an image is set to float, the height of the graphic
> is not taken into account for the calculation of the div height.
> 
> This is illustrated on page:
> http://www.xxaxxsoft.com/cssdiscuss/test.html
> 
> I can hack my way around this by setting the height of the div
> explicitly.
> 
> Or, I can also put something like 
> inside the parent div after the image. This seems to trigger the
> image's height being used to calculate the height of the div.
> 
> But I would like to understand why this is happening and have some
> idea of the "best practice" for handling this issue.
> 
> Any hints would be much appreciated.

This may help:



--
Regards,
Thierry 
www.tjkdesign.com | articles and tutorials
www.ez-css.org | ultra light CSS framework





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Re: [css-d] Question about how to handle div height with floating children

[Bobby Jack]

--- On Fri, 3/19/10, Claude Needham  wrote:

> The issue is when an image is set to
> float, the height of the graphic
> is not taken into account for the calculation of the div
> height.
> 
> But I would like to understand why this is happening

Here's my explanation:

http://www.fiveminuteargument.com/float-container

> and have some idea of the "best practice" for handling this issue.

I'm not sure if it's considered *best* practice, but a very common technique is 
to apply 'overflow: hidden' (or another non-default overflow value) to the 
container.

- Bobby
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[css-d] Question about how to handle div height with floating children

[Claude Needham]

The issue is when an image is set to float, the height of the graphic
is not taken into account for the calculation of the div height.

This is illustrated on page: http://www.xxaxxsoft.com/cssdiscuss/test.html

I can hack my way around this by setting the height of the div explicitly.

Or, I can also put something like 
inside the parent div after the image. This seems to trigger the
image's height being used to calculate the height of the div.

But I would like to understand why this is happening and have some
idea of the "best practice" for handling this issue.

Any hints would be much appreciated.

Regards,
Claude Needham
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