date:20220613

On Mon 13 Jun 2022 at 12:38:37 (+0100), Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:24:07 -0400 Greg Wooledge wrote:
> >On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 04:58:44AM +, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> >> I suppose I should have shut down some of processes before running
> >> Synaptic.  
> >That shouldn't be necessary.

While I would generally concur, I would not advise, for example,
performing the monthly firefox upgrade while the browser is running.

> Indeed.  It seems more likely that the problems arose because Synaptic
> was forcefully terminated.  Of course, it may have been necessary due to
> a (now) unknowable problem.
> 
> It would be helpful (maybe) to know how long Russell waited before
> performing the reset after Synaptic hung.  Too late now, but it might
> simply have been performing complex 'bookkeeping' tasks.  For example,
> occasionally, I've seen initrd.img being written out more than once
> during an update (although not recently).  That can take time.

Over the weekend, both ntfs-3g and linux-image-5.10.0 were upgraded,
though I split them because I happened to upgrade ntfs-3g just after
midnight Friday. A weekly upgrade might upgrade both at the same time.

I would also point out that a pair of upgrades like this would be
split if you normally upgrade (in apt-get's parlance), but then
dist-upgrade because you see a new kernel image being held back.

But AFAICT, apt-get does not appear to try to avoid generating initrd
twice in the same step. For example, in April, both apparmor and
linux-image-5.10.0 caused initrd regeneration on this PC in one step.

Not being a synaptic user, I don't know whether it informs users of
what it is doing (other than through the logs), but I would have
thought it ought to.

Cheers,
David.

Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails

On Sun 12 Jun 2022 at 13:06:40 (-0600), Charles Curley wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 12:20:05 -0400
> gene heskett  wrote:
> 
> > Now, I really need a terminal for alt-ctl-F3 that does support the 
> > mouse.
> 
> charles@hawk:~$ apt show gpm

[ … ]

> Description: General Purpose Mouse interface
>  This package provides a daemon that captures mouse events when the system
>  console is active, and delivers events to applications through a library.
>  .
>  By default, the daemon provides a 'selection' mode, so that
>  cut-and-paste with the mouse works on the console just as it does
>  under X.

Sure, I always install gpm, and it might even be on my list because
donkey's years ago you needed it for cut and paste on X, using the
-R repeater mode.

But cutting from a VC more or less forces you to paste to an
intermediate file, which you can then copy into a graphical
email client. To do that requires another VC for the paste,
and all this complication is just so that the OP doesn't find
out how to use a text terminal that I'm sure they're running
as a matter of course. (Sure, you can keep a car in the garage
and spend Sunday afternoons listening to the radio and waggling
the steering wheel, but the idea is that you learn to drive.)

I don't think someone who can barely remember Ctrl-Alt-F3 is going
to do much inter-VC cut and pasting.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Screen power save in console mode

On Mon 13 Jun 2022 at 10:14:36 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:
> Jeremy Ardley composed on 2022-06-13 15:49 (UTC+0800):
> 
> > I have a Debain (Armbian) server that does not boot to any form of 
> > window manager, so what is seen on the screen is just the command console.
> 
> > What I would like  to do is have the console screen go into screen power 
> > save mode after some period and recover when keyboard or mouse are used.
> 
> > Is there a simple way to configure that?
> 
> consoleblank= in /etc/default/grub's GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT=.
> https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.txt

There are also Linux Console Private CSI Sequences
documented in   man 4 console_codes   that include:

   ESC [ 9 ; n ]   Set screen blank timeout to n minutes.
   ESC [ 13 ]  Unblank the screen.
   ESC [ 14 ; n ]  Set the VESA powerdown interval in minutes.

So, for example, I added \e[9;16] to the beginning of /etc/issue
when it became apparent that Linux wasn't blanking the console
any more. I think it was buster, but could have been stretch.
I wouldn't notice if bullseye still doesn't. Don't quote me on
the version.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Debian 10 --> 11 on Dell R740: network interfaces renamed

On Thu 09 Jun 2022 at 10:42:07 (+0200), Harald Dunkel wrote:
> 
> If I have to hardwire the interface names to their Mac address as you
> suggested, then I don't see a significant difference to the old-style
> /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules we had till Debian 10, except
> that the former was auto-generated and easier to modify.

The autogeneration wasn't always popular. If your network card packed
up and you replaced it with another, suddenly your eth0 configuration
would fall over because the new card's interface became eth1. Or eth2
if there was already an eth1 lurking in the file.

Perhaps calling the new interface naming scheme "predictable" is
somewhat overselling it, but "persistent" (a better choice IMHO)
was already in use, both in the way quoted above, and as one of
the choices for MAC address generation.

Easier to modify? I'd say the INI file syntax is easier to write and
maintain than incantations like:

SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*", 
ATTR{address}=="00:13:49:f0:0b:aa", ATTR{dev_id}=="0x0", ATTR{type}=="1", 
KERNEL=="wlan*", NAME="wlan0"

Cheers,
David.

Re: error using synaptic UPGRADE/INSTALL

2022-06-13 Thread Russell L. Harris

On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 06:46:02PM -0500, David Wright wrote:

On Mon 13 Jun 2022 at 12:38:37 (+0100), Brad Rogers wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:24:07 -0400 Greg Wooledge wrote:
>On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 04:58:44AM +, Russell L. Harris wrote:
>> I suppose I should have shut down some of processes before running
>> Synaptic.
>That shouldn't be necessary.

While I would generally concur, I would not advise, for example,
performing the monthly firefox upgrade while the browser is running.

Indeed.  It seems more likely that the problems arose because Synaptic
was forcefully terminated.  Of course, it may have been necessary due to
a (now) unknowable problem.

It would be helpful (maybe) to know how long Russell waited before
performing the reset after Synaptic hung.  Too late now, but it might
simply have been performing complex 'bookkeeping' tasks.  For example,
occasionally, I've seen initrd.img being written out more than once
during an update (although not recently).  That can take time.

Over the weekend, both ntfs-3g and linux-image-5.10.0 were upgraded,
though I split them because I happened to upgrade ntfs-3g just after
midnight Friday. A weekly upgrade might upgrade both at the same time.

>

I would also point out that a pair of upgrades like this would be
split if you normally upgrade (in apt-get's parlance), but then
dist-upgrade because you see a new kernel image being held back.

But AFAICT, apt-get does not appear to try to avoid generating initrd
twice in the same step. For example, in April, both apparmor and
linux-image-5.10.0 caused initrd regeneration on this PC in one step.

Not being a synaptic user, I don't know whether it informs users of
what it is doing (other than through the logs), but I would have
thought it ought to.

If I recall correctly, the system became unresponsive.  I've gotten
lazy because I seldom have a problem with Synaptic.  But it is easy
enough to close files before starting the download+install,
particularly if it involves a kernel upgrade.

RLH

Re: error using synaptic UPGRADE/INSTALL

2022-06-13 Thread tomas

On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 06:46:02PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Mon 13 Jun 2022 at 12:38:37 (+0100), Brad Rogers wrote:
> > On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:24:07 -0400 Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > >On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 04:58:44AM +, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> > >> I suppose I should have shut down some of processes before running
> > >> Synaptic.  
> > >That shouldn't be necessary.
> 
> While I would generally concur, I would not advise, for example,
> performing the monthly firefox upgrade while the browser is running.

Confirmed. I do it regularly and the browser regularly freaks out.
If you depend too much on the browser's information contents (open
tabs, what not), then some care is in order.

I try to not have critical stuff "in" the browser, so I enjoy the
fireworks (OMG! Something weird happened! We are so sorry!1!!).

Cheers
-- 
t

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Re: which X11 app can show wifi info

2022-06-13 Thread Celejar

On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 12:00:35 +0100
Brian  wrote:

> On Sat 11 Jun 2022 at 18:08:24 +0800, lou wrote:
> 
> > On 6/11/22 4:57 PM, Brian wrote:
> > 
> > > You may want wpagui, a graphical frontend for wpasupplicant.
> > 
> > > Use of Qt apps does not involve installing KDE.
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks, but i use ifup/ifdown (not wpasupplicant) to manage network
> > connection.
> 
> You are associating with a wireless access point. You must be using
> wpasupplicant. Have you tried installing wpagui?

JFTR, wpasupplicant is no longer required for WiFi - I use iwd.

-- 
Celejar

Re: user perms

On 6/13/22 14:36, Greg Wooledge wrote:
On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 01:56:12PM -0400, gene heskett wrote: >> I appear as user 1000 seem to be stuck behind some sort of a >>

permissions wall. > > SHOW. US.

I got tired of fighting with it Greg, so I did install #32 and installed

gnome_desktop (that was new) and xfce4 during the install, and

now things including the screen colors are back to normal,

I've installed the brother printers and scanner drivers and I can modify t

them by the usual rules. I also set a root pw in addition to adding myself

to /etc/group in the appropriate places. I created an /sshnet tree with the

other 5 machines here, did a root chown -R me:me on that path and just now

mounted all of them as me, so I own the path to me on the other 5 machines.

And my working environment is getting close to completed, something

that only been workable occasionally since that last Seagate 2T drive

went tits down in the night last Dec 8th.

Kmail5 is buggier than road kill in June, but t-bird is more like
August, so

I'm looking for a mailer that actually works. tbirds sort filters don't,
and

they think everybody uses only html, so word wrap doesn't work So I'm

doing this by hand..

So my only instant question is when will the developers understand that

stuff that runs as a $USER, needs one of two changes, either a .conf file

someplace readable by the $USER that tells things like t-bird, running as

the user, can have write privs to /var/log, /or/ an entry in that *.conf so

logging can be done instead of just gobbling up the denial w/o bothering

to tell the user it can't open the log. Its trivial to fix logrotate to
service

the logs in /home/$USER/logs where there's no perms problem because

the $USER owns the whole path. Same perms story for heyu and nut,

but some somebody, thinking security as opposed to usability, insists

on building /dev/ttyUSB*, with 0600 perms. Neither nut, nor heyu can

get past that to get their job done. And IF I reset those two devices to
0777,

re reboot fixes that.

I must have asked 15 or 20 times in the last decade, how to fix this in

permanently in /lib/udev, and have been ignored when I ask that for

several years. Usability, letting a computer actually DO its job simply

isn't on the menu. With a record like that, can you blame me for being

frustrated? Frustrated by asking for advice so I do do it right, and being

ignored.

[...]

You're a goddamned 20+ year Linux veteran. You should be able to > handle
something as ridiculously simple as this.

I just did, but haven't changed the perms of /dev/ttyUSB* yet. Only so

much time in one 24 hour day. Up since 4:40 my time, by 20:00 I'm burned

out for the day.

Take care and stay well, Greg.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis

Re: perms


On 6/13/22 14:49, mick crane wrote:

On 2022-06-13 19:11, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

Hi Gene,

For CUPS - you can use lpadmin from a terminal as a command line.

Open a konsole terminal, su - inside it, then use lpadmin


Just looking to see if I could remember how to add a cups printer 
noticed that 


I am in lpadmin group in /etc/group which might be why I look to be able 
to login


as me in cups webpage "add printer".

I just looked, cup was installed when I rebooted this time but 
/etc/group has only an


lp entry, no lpadmin. So I made it like this: "lp:x:7:gene" and it seems 
to have worked.




colours would likely be the colours of the shell and the editor rather 
than the terminal.

I think I did this "select-editor" in mc and was presented with a choice.
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/80845/how-to-set-default-editor-viewer-for-midnight-commander-to-sublime 


maybe there are things to do in [colors] section of
~/.config/mc/ini


That also was fixed by a re-install.

Thank you, Take care & stay well, mick

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: user perms

2022-06-13 Thread Felix Miata

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI composed on 2022-06-13 16:29 (UTC-0400):

> And Gene is one of a few users that never help themselves, even when 
> repeatedly told what to do and what not to do.

Just wait until your wife of 60 years is gone and you're 89. See how you like
having no one there to talk to any more while your memory is fading from memory.
It may be poor excuse, but it isn't something you can expect to go away through
razzing, if ever. Be kind.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails

2022-06-13 Thread Michael Stone


On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 11:06:38AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

On 6/13/22 09:17, Michael Stone wrote:

On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 08:19:02PM +0100, mick crane wrote:
The clue though is as somebody said that disabling this new 
fangled EFI doesn't seem to do what Gene (or I ) thinks it does.


new fangled? UEFI has been around longer than the PC BIOS was when 
linux was first written...
If that is what they taught you in history, Michael, sue the the 
school.   Bios has been around since the first IBM PC, or before.


When linux was first written, the IBM PC was 15 years old. UEFI 2.0 (the 
form used in basically everything these days) was released in 2006, 16 
years ago. QED, UEFI has been around longer now than the PC BIOS was 
when linux was introduced. You can push the antecedents of the PC BIOS a 
back a few years to CP/M in the mid 70s, but you can likewise trace EFI 
to its genesis in the itanium project in the late 90s. At any rate, UEFI 
makes a lot more sense for booting a modern system than does a 
compatibility layer trying to emulate a 50-year-old 16-bit 
microcomputer.


UEFI 
was microsofts failed attempt to lock people into dos/windows about 20 
years ago when unix/linux was beginning to eat their lunch.


Please just stop the editorializing, especially when it isn't based in 
actual facts.

Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails

2022-06-13 Thread rhkramer

On Monday, June 13, 2022 11:35:29 AM Greg Wooledge wrote:
> Let's get some actual numbers in here.  From wikipedia:
> 
> IBM PC with proprietary BIOS introduced: 1981
> Linus Torvalds begins writing Linux: 1991

Efforts started toward EFI (predecessor in some sense of UEFI) -- see below:   
1998

> Intel stops doing EFI and starts contributing to UEFI: 2005
> Current year:  2022
> 
> Number of years PC BIOS had been around when Linux started: 10
> Number of years UEFI has been around now:   17
> 
> I don't know how well those two numbers are supposed to indicate that
> UEFI "isn't new-fangled", but there they are.

Very interesting / helpful.

I wanted to see when EFI (the predecessor to UEFI) came into the picture.  In 
the Wikipedia article 
[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface#History]
[Unified Extensible Firmware Interface]]

I found:

The original motivation for EFI came during early development of the first 
Intel–HP Itanium systems in the mid-1990s. BIOS limitations (such as 16-bit 
real mode, 1MB addressable memory space,[7] assembly language programming, and 
PC AT hardware) had become too restrictive for the larger server platforms 
Itanium was targeting.[8] The effort to address these concerns began in 1998 
and was initially called Intel Boot Initiative.[9] It was later renamed to 
Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI).[10][11]

So it looks like the effort towards that started in 1998.

-- 
A picture, sketch, diagram, or chart is worth a thousand words -- divide by 10 
for each minute of video (or audio) -- or, where feasible, create a transcript 
and edit it to 10% of the original!  (Oxford comma included in this sig at no 
charge.)

Re: user perms

2022-06-13 Thread Eduardo M KALINOWSKI


On 13/06/2022 15:33, Greg Wooledge wrote:

Why the hell do you CONTINUE to make these vague statements with NO
demonstration of what the actual problem is?


And why do you continue asking for the same things, knowing that they 
won't be provided?


Not that your request in invalid - certainly if the user wants actual 
help, they must provided good and accurate details of the problem and of 
what they have tried in order to identify and/or solve the problem.


But the OP in question never provides such details - even after 
repeatedly being asked for them, by you and other equally patient people.


I understand the desire to help, but the user must be willing to help 
themselves - providing details when asked for, showing output of 
diagnostic commands, or just not jumping from unrelated problem to 
unrelated problem in the same conversation.


And Gene is one of a few users that never help themselves, even when 
repeatedly told what to do and what not to do.



--
In the strict scientific sense we all feed on death -- even vegetarians.
-- Spock, "Wolf in the Fold", stardate 3615.4

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
edua...@kalinowski.com.br

Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails

2022-06-13 Thread tomas

On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 05:57:00PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 05:53:59PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> > When linux was first written, the IBM PC was 15 years old.
> 
> *10
> 
> I'm not sure if it's math or typing that's hard

All three of them, actually ;-)

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: MC settings (was: user perms)

2022-06-13 Thread Felix Miata

Joe composed on 2022-06-13 20:03 (UTC+0100):

> I don't know if you know this, but when you close mc the *current*
> version of the config file is re-saved. So if you edited the file in
> mc, the new version will be overwritten.

That's an unfortunate default, not carved in stone. Turn off auto save setup and
saving of settings won't happen unless you goto menu and select save.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: error using synaptic UPGRADE/INSTALL

2022-06-13 Thread Greg Wooledge

On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 04:58:44AM +, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> That occurred to me when I first typed "su", but then I forgot to go
> back and try.  Now I can sleep tonight without worrying about it.

If you want more details (and more options):

https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes

> I suppose I should have shut down some of processes before running
> Synaptic.

That shouldn't be necessary.

Re: How should learning to program in c++ be approached, if learning objectives are sought to be customised?


On 2022-06-13 01:57, Bijan Soleymani wrote:

On 2022-05-30 13:01, Susmita/Rajib wrote:

I was trying to find out if c++ could be used to build device drivers.
You said, "... Linux drivers are written in C, but technically you can
mix languages: use C++ and link it against C ...". But I would request
more specificity here:(a)  if c++ could be used without using any
other programming language to build a device driver. (b)  If it is
practised industrially.


I work on a kernel mode driver for windows. It is written in C++. But
we can't use the C++ standard library, as Windows kernel mode doesn't
support exceptions. I think someone managed to make a version that did
but it never ended up being good enough to catch on.


Sorry this last bit wasn't clear. Someone made a version of the standard 
library that didn't use exceptions. But it wasn't that useful probably 
because of all the other limitations I mentioned.


Also before this I worked on a user space mobile app library. The 
initial version was in Java with only the cryptography done in C and 
accessed via JNI. This was because we started on Android and the server 
was written in Java.


But iOS (iPhones) doesn't run Java, so we had to move the core to C, and 
access that from Java/Kotlin on Android using JNI and from objective 
C/swift on iOS using the standard C interface.


Otherwise the Android and iOS implementations would need to be 
duplicated.


We could have done the core in C++ or objective C, but C had less 
headaches with portability.


Before this I worked on another project in perl (my code) and ruby (an 
existing software component) on Linux but it needed heavy access to OS 
syscalls to monitor file accesses (inotify), and so I had to have a 
C/C++ component that did the file access monitoring that the ruby/perl 
code needed to communicate with.


Bijan

Re: error using synaptic UPGRADE/INSTALL

2022-06-13 Thread Brad Rogers

On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 07:24:07 -0400
Greg Wooledge  wrote:

Hello,

>On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 04:58:44AM +, Russell L. Harris wrote:
>> I suppose I should have shut down some of processes before running
>> Synaptic.  
>That shouldn't be necessary.

Indeed.  It seems more likely that the problems arose because Synaptic
was forcefully terminated.  Of course, it may have been necessary due to
a (now) unknowable problem.

It would be helpful (maybe) to know how long Russell waited before
performing the reset after Synaptic hung.  Too late now, but it might
simply have been performing complex 'bookkeeping' tasks.  For example,
occasionally, I've seen initrd.img being written out more than once
during an update (although not recently).  That can take time.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
It's got nothing to do with the need to impress
Titanic (My Over) Reaction - 999

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Re: Choix d'un gestionnaire de mots de passe

2022-06-13 Thread Erwann Le Bras

bon bin keepassXC définitivement adopté car effectivement fonctionne 
bien mieux que Keepass...

en plus tout est dans les dépôts...


Le 30/05/2022 à 16:53, Erwann Le Bras a écrit :

bonjour

J'utilise keepass car multiplate-forme et accessible de partout grâce 
à mon serveur ownCloud.


l'App pour Android est une tuerie ; je rame un peu sous Linux pour 
l'autocompletion des mots de passe sous Firefox avec keepasshttp.


J'ai eu les memes soucis, qui ont été résolus en passant a keepassXC.

je testerai donc keepassXC au vu des retours que j'ai. La base reste 
compatible avec Keepass?


Oui, par contre les extensions ne sont pas les memes. Il faut prendre 
KeePassXC-Browser pour firefox et keepassxc-mail pour thunderbird.

https://github.com/kkapsner/keepassxc-mail


amitiés,

--

Erwann

Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails

2022-06-13 Thread Michael Stone


On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 08:19:02PM +0100, mick crane wrote:
The clue though is as somebody said that disabling this new fangled 
EFI doesn't seem to do what Gene (or I ) thinks it does.


new fangled? UEFI has been around longer than the PC BIOS was when linux 
was first written...



So having twigged that I'd initially have the installer do its thing.


Yes, most of his problems seem to stem from trying to do things his own 
way, often with a rationale that's simply incorrect. When someone tries 
to figure out what's wrong they're starting in a hole--first needing to 
reverse engineer the unrevealed set of actions that led to the mess in 
the first place.

Re: Screen power save in console mode

2022-06-13 Thread Felix Miata

Jeremy Ardley composed on 2022-06-13 15:49 (UTC+0800):

> I have a Debain (Armbian) server that does not boot to any form of 
> window manager, so what is seen on the screen is just the command console.

> What I would like  to do is have the console screen go into screen power 
> save mode after some period and recover when keyboard or mouse are used.

> Is there a simple way to configure that?

consoleblank= in /etc/default/grub's GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT=.
https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.txt
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: How should learning to program in c++ be approached, if learning objectives are sought to be customised?


On 2022-05-30 05:12, Susmita/Rajib wrote:


Could I please be given a little more guidance on the following aspects 
please?:

(1)   exhaustive example codes


All Debian main packages have source code as they are free software.


(2)   object library resources, references, explanations, et al


All Debian main libraries have source code as they are free software.


(3)   Whether Eclipse could be used for c++


Yes, it can.


(4)   Whether Device Drivers and other lower-level programs could be
designed with c++, like they are done in c or assembly level languages
(I am aware that KDE was written in c++, but ...).


Yes with severe limitations as I described in my previous email.


(5)   Whether optimisation tools like valgrind and gdb are available
for c++ also


Yes I have used valgrind and gdb on C++.

However kernel mode debugging (for kernel or device drivers) can't use 
valgrind and needs a special debugger (this exists now for Linux but I 
don't think it did when I started using Linux 20+ years ago).



Please feel free to post any other general guidance and advice please,
considering that you are actually talking to a novice.


My advice is take advantage of the fact that Debian and all its software 
are free software (open source). Grab the code for some program you use 
and compile it then modify it to suit your needs. You will find this 
hard. But software is hard. This is something you need to accept. It is 
not primarily because people have done a bad job writing the software. 
It is reality.


As an intellectual philosophical read I recommend in the beginning was 
the command line by Neal Stephenson.


https://web.archive.org/web/20180218045352/http://www.cryptonomicon.com/beginning.html

To quote the end (apologies for the length):

THE RIGHT PINKY OF GOD


In his book The Life of the Cosmos, which everyone should read, Lee 
Smolin gives the best description I've ever read of how our universe 
emerged from an uncannily precise balancing of different fundamental 
constants. The mass of the proton, the strength of gravity, the range of 
the weak nuclear force, and a few dozen other fundamental constants 
completely determine what sort of universe will emerge from a Big Bang. 
If these values had been even slightly different, the universe would 
have been a vast ocean of tepid gas or a hot knot of plasma or some 
other basically uninteresting thing--a dud, in other words. The only way 
to get a universe that's not a dud--that has stars, heavy elements, 
planets, and life--is to get the basic numbers just right. If there were 
some machine, somewhere, that could spit out universes with randomly 
chosen values for their fundamental constants, then for every universe 
like ours it would produce 10^229 duds.


Though I haven't sat down and run the numbers on it, to me this seems 
comparable to the probability of making a Unix computer do something 
useful by logging into a tty and typing in command lines when you have 
forgotten all of the little options and keywords. Every time your right 
pinky slams that ENTER key, you are making another try. In some cases 
the operating system does nothing. In other cases it wipes out all of 
your files. In most cases it just gives you an error message. In other 
words, you get many duds. But sometimes, if you have it all just right, 
the computer grinds away for a while and then produces something like 
emacs. It actually generates complexity, which is Smolin's criterion for 
interestingness.


Not only that, but it's beginning to look as if, once you get below a 
certain size--way below the level of quarks, down into the realm of 
string theory--the universe can't be described very well by physics as 
it has been practiced since the days of Newton. If you look at a small 
enough scale, you see processes that look almost computational in 
nature.


I think that the message is very clear here: somewhere outside of and 
beyond our universe is an operating system, coded up over incalculable 
spans of time by some kind of hacker-demiurge. The cosmic operating 
system uses a command-line interface. It runs on something like a 
teletype, with lots of noise and heat; punched-out bits flutter down 
into its hopper like drifting stars. The demiurge sits at his teletype, 
pounding out one command line after another, specifying the values of 
fundamental constants of physics:


universe -G 6.672e-11 -e 1.602e-19 -h 6.626e-34 -protonmass 
1.673e-27


and when he's finished typing out the command line, his right pinky 
hesitates above the ENTER key for an aeon or two, wondering what's going 
to happen; then down it comes--and the WHACK you hear is another Big 
Bang.


Now THAT is a cool operating system, and if such a thing were actually 
made available on the Internet (for free, of course) every hacker in the 
world would download it right away and then stay up all night long 
messing with it, spitting out universes right and left. Most of them 
would be pretty dull

Re: Screen power save in console mode


On 2022-06-13 03:49, Jeremy Ardley wrote:

I have a Debain (Armbian) server that does not boot to any form of
window manager, so what is seen on the screen is just the command
console.

What I would like  to do is have the console screen go into screen
power save mode after some period and recover when keyboard or mouse
are used.

Is there a simple way to configure that?


It seems this can be done via setterm command. It might require kernel 
or kernel command line parameter changes depending on what you need to 
do.


This link may be of some help:
https://superuser.com/questions/152347/change-linux-console-screen-blanking-behavior

Bijan

Screen power save in console mode

2022-06-13 Thread Jeremy Ardley

I have a Debain (Armbian) server that does not boot to any form of 
window manager, so what is seen on the screen is just the command console.


What I would like  to do is have the console screen go into screen power 
save mode after some period and recover when keyboard or mouse are used.


Is there a simple way to configure that?

--
Jeremy



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails


On 6/13/22 09:17, Michael Stone wrote:

On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 08:19:02PM +0100, mick crane wrote:
The clue though is as somebody said that disabling this new fangled 
EFI doesn't seem to do what Gene (or I ) thinks it does.


new fangled? UEFI has been around longer than the PC BIOS was when 
linux was first written...
If that is what they taught you in history, Michael, sue the the 
school.   Bios has been around since the first IBM PC, or before. UEFI 
was microsofts failed attempt to lock people into dos/windows about 20 
years ago when unix/linux was beginning to eat their lunch.

So having twigged that I'd initially have the installer do its thing.


Yes, most of his problems seem to stem from trying to do things his 
own way, often with a rationale that's simply incorrect. When someone 
tries to figure out what's wrong they're starting in a hole--first 
needing to reverse engineer the unrevealed set of actions that led to 
the mess in the first place.


You forget that I have been fixing things with battery's or line cord's 
since long before you were born.


I was fixing radio's for cig money a year after end of WW-II. WOI-TV out 
of Iowa State college, the first


tv station in Iowa was still 2 years in the future.


Microsofts attempt to impose UEFI on the industry is just one of the 
reasons there are no operating


windows machines out of the 6 that run 24/7 here.


4 of them carve wood or metal, running code I wrote, the 5th runs a 3d 
printer to make things I


design in OpenSCAD on this machine, and this one.


And they all boot linux from the bios. The bios may have UEFI, but if it 
can't be turned off, they won't


get ANY of my cash OR card numbers. Since it is my money, it is my 
choice, and its not open for discussion.



You have been helpful on this list for a long time, and the fact that 
you and I don't see eye to eye does


not prevent me from saying: take care, and stay well Michael.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

enlever mon adresse de la liste

2022-06-13 Thread mc2


bonjour,

Pourriez-vous enlever mon adresse de la liste de debian-user-french.

merci

Re: xterm. Was Re: 26th pass at installing 11-3, fails

2022-06-13 Thread Greg Wooledge

On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 11:06:38AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 6/13/22 09:17, Michael Stone wrote:
> > new fangled? UEFI has been around longer than the PC BIOS was when linux
> > was first written...
> If that is what they taught you in history, Michael, sue the the school.  

*sigh*

Let's get some actual numbers in here.  From wikipedia:

IBM PC with proprietary BIOS introduced: 1981
Linus Torvalds begins writing Linux: 1991

Intel stops doing EFI and starts contributing to UEFI: 2005
Current year:  2022

Number of years PC BIOS had been around when Linux started: 10
Number of years UEFI has been around now:   17

I don't know how well those two numbers are supposed to indicate that
UEFI "isn't new-fangled", but there they are.

memtest86+ on 12th gen intel

2022-06-13 Thread Ram Ramesh


I had memtest86+ working just fine on a legacy bullseye install.

However, due to age of the CPU, I recently upgraded to 12th gen 
i3-12100. As part of the upgrade, I also changed over to UEFI boot. In 
addition I had to upgrade kernel to 5.16 using backports to get video 
working right. Now memtest86 in the grub menu does not work. Once 
selected, grub menu goes away and the background debian 11 canvas shows 
up and nothing after that. Memtest never starts.


I removed memtest86+ and reinstalled and that did not help. I looked for 
it in backports and as far as I can tell there is no package matching 
memtest. Please help. I bought two sticks of RAM and would like to test 
it when possible. My search on internet did not bring up any useful 
article. May be I do not know how to search for this specific item.


BTW, debian boots and runs as expected. Just that memtest does not start 
up. May be, just may be,  it starts up, but cannot use iGPU (UHD 730, I 
think) to display activities.


Regards
Ramesh

Re: Choix d'un gestionnaire de mots de passe

2022-06-13 Thread Michel Memeteau


Bonjour ,

Le 26/05/2022 à 19:05, kaliderus a écrit :

Bonjour la liste,

Quel est votre gestionnaire de mot de passe préféré et pourquoi ?

J'utilise Bitwarden en entreprise au quotidien avec satisfaction mais je 
pense passer sur nextcloud passwords qui me semble abouti et 
fonctionnel  ( contrairement a passman qu'on a fait bugué en 20 secondes )


https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/passwords

--
--
Michel Memeteau

Ekimia ( https://ekimia.fr )

Directeur

tel:0624808051

Address :
620 avenue de la roche fourcade
13400 Aubagne
France

Re: memtest86+ on 12th gen intel


On 6/13/2022 11:47 AM, Ram Ramesh wrote:

I had memtest86+ working just fine on a legacy bullseye install.

However, due to age of the CPU, I recently upgraded to 12th gen 
i3-12100. As part of the upgrade, I also changed over to UEFI boot.


Looks like current Memtest works only with UEFI boot (won't boot otherwise):

https://www.memtest86.com/download.htm

And the legacy version is needed if runing without UEFI (which you 
probably had since you hadn't enabled it before).


I'm guessing the legacy version won't boot with UEFI which is what you 
are seeing.


Bijan

Re: Re: [OT] Error de autenticación en cuentas @gmail.com en Clientes de Correo que no son el de Gmail.

2022-06-13 Thread Camaleón

El 2022-06-13 a las 11:19 -0500, Aristobulo Pinzon escribió:

> Buenos días...
> Y una pregunta: ¿Cómo configurar todas las cuentas de Gmail con 2FA?
> Gracias por facilitar ayuda.

Sigue estos pasos:

Activar la verificación en dos pasos
https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/185839?hl=es=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop=0

Ojo, activar este sistema va bien para quienes NO usamos el webmail y 
mantenemos cuentas configuradas «a la antigua usanza», esto es, con 
clientes IMAP/POP3 que requieren usuario y contraseña.

Cuando activas el 2FA cada vez que accedes a tu cuenta de Google/Gmail 
a través del webmail te manda un código SMS o te llama para permitr el 
acceso, lo cual no e s nada práctico si el webmail es el sistema de 
acceso más utilizado.

Luego sólo tendrías que generar una contraseña de aplicación para que 
Google te cree una contraseña automáticamente, que es la que pones en 
la aplicación de correo o donde la vayas a usar.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón

Re: memtest86+ on 12th gen intel


On 6/13/2022 12:22 PM, Bijan Soleymani wrote:

https://www.memtest86.com/download.htm


Sorry I didn't realize that version of memtest isn't free software.

Here's a post on the issues with memtest86+ (the free software version) 
and UEFI:


https://askubuntu.com/questions/917961/can-i-boot-memtest86-if-im-using-uefi

Bijan

Re: perms

2022-06-13 Thread Andrew M.A. Cater

Hi Gene,

For CUPS - you can use lpadmin from a terminal as a command line.

Open a konsole terminal, su - inside it, then use lpadmin

For the other issues: if you really want to do another install, go ahead
- this time, maybe try UEFI ? 

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

Re: user perms

2022-06-13 Thread Greg Wooledge

On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 01:56:12PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> I appear as user 1000 seem to be stuck behind some sort of a permissions
> wall.

SHOW.  US.

Why the hell do you CONTINUE to make these vague statements with NO
demonstration of what the actual problem is?

It would take you FIVE SECONDS to paste the offending results from your
terminal to the email you're already writing.

Anyway, if you're seeing "1000" instead of "gene" in the output of some
command such as "ls -ld ~" then it's probably your /etc/passwd file being
broken in some way.  Permissions on the file.  Contents of the file.
Permissions on the directories leading up to the file (/ and /etc).
One of those things.

Whatever it is, fix it.

You're a goddamned 20+ year Linux veteran.  You should be able to handle
something as ridiculously simple as this.

Re: perms

2022-06-13 Thread mick crane


On 2022-06-13 19:11, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

Hi Gene,

For CUPS - you can use lpadmin from a terminal as a command line.

Open a konsole terminal, su - inside it, then use lpadmin


Just looking to see if I could remember how to add a cups printer 
noticed that I am in lpadmin group in /etc/group which might be why I 
look to be able to login as me in cups webpage "add printer".


colours would likely be the colours of the shell and the editor rather 
than the terminal.
I think I did this "select-editor" in mc and was presented with a 
choice.

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/80845/how-to-set-default-editor-viewer-for-midnight-commander-to-sublime
maybe there are things to do in [colors] section of
~/.config/mc/ini

mick

Re: user perms




On 6/13/2022 2:33 PM, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 01:56:12PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

I appear as user 1000 seem to be stuck behind some sort of a permissions
wall.

SHOW.  US.

No need to shout in all caps.

Why the hell

no need for language

You're a goddamned 20+ year Linux veteran.  You should be able to handle
something as ridiculously simple as this.

again language and personal attack

I just got an email saying there's a FAQ and a code of conduct.

Bijan

Re: user perms

2022-06-13 Thread Joe

On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 13:56:12 -0400
gene heskett  wrote:

> I can't modify screen colors in any terminal or in mc, and mc's
> colors are all so alike I can only read a directory list which is in
> a different color, if I want to read a file, I have to use nano.
> 

I don't know if you know this, but when you close mc the *current*
version of the config file is re-saved. So if you edited the file in
mc, the new version will be overwritten.

I edit it in mc, save it under a different name, close mc and rename my
file mc.ini. What I haven't yet found is a means of changing the colour
of comments in files that mc recognises as programs.

-- 
Joe

Re: perms

2022-06-13 Thread Joe

On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 19:46:13 +0100
mick crane  wrote:

> On 2022-06-13 19:11, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > Hi Gene,
> > 
> > For CUPS - you can use lpadmin from a terminal as a command line.
> > 
> > Open a konsole terminal, su - inside it, then use lpadmin  
> 
> Just looking to see if I could remember how to add a cups printer 
> noticed that I am in lpadmin group in /etc/group which might be why I 
> look to be able to login as me in cups webpage "add printer".
> 
> colours would likely be the colours of the shell and the editor
> rather than the terminal.
> I think I did this "select-editor" in mc and was presented with a 
> choice.
> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/80845/how-to-set-default-editor-viewer-for-midnight-commander-to-sublime

And those choices are all you get. I've stuck with cooledit.

> maybe there are things to do in [colors] section of
> ~/.config/mc/ini

There most certainly are, but it's a pain, and as I say, if you edit it
in mc and just re-save it, mc will overwrite it with the old file when
it closes.

-- 
Joe

Re: memtest86+ on 12th gen intel


On 6/13/2022 12:27 PM, Bijan Soleymani wrote:


Here's a post on the issues with memtest86+ (the free software 
version) and UEFI:


https://askubuntu.com/questions/917961/can-i-boot-memtest86-if-im-using-uefi


Sorry for the spam, looks like they just added UEFI support last week:

https://www.memtest.org/

"Changelog

 * Rewrite code for UEFI 32 & 64 bits"

Bijan

Re: memtest86+ on 12th gen intel

2022-06-13 Thread piorunz


On 13/06/2022 17:22, Bijan Soleymani wrote:

On 6/13/2022 11:47 AM, Ram Ramesh wrote:

I had memtest86+ working just fine on a legacy bullseye install.

However, due to age of the CPU, I recently upgraded to 12th gen
i3-12100. As part of the upgrade, I also changed over to UEFI boot.


Looks like current Memtest works only with UEFI boot (won't boot
otherwise):

https://www.memtest86.com/download.htm

And the legacy version is needed if runing without UEFI (which you
probably had since you hadn't enabled it before).

I'm guessing the legacy version won't boot with UEFI which is what you
are seeing.

Bijan



I think author talks about Memtest86+, not PassMark's Memtest86. There
are two independently developed programs:
https://www.memtest.org/
https://www.memtest86.com/

Memtest86+ (Plus) uses https://www.memtest.org/ webpage. This one
doesn't work in UEFI at all, to my knowledge. It's open source.

Memtest86 uses https://www.memtest86.com/. This one one is much more
established, and its being developed by PassMark Software. It only works
in UEFI, but old legacy versions for BIOS are available for download.
They have free and paid versions. Free version works perfectly fine, but
I didn't checked the licence if GPL or not?

I suggest to OP to use what works :) Either of the two. Unless open
source is a requirement then he may need to stick to Memtest86+.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: enlever mon adresse de la liste

2022-06-13 Thread Pierre Malard

bonjour,

c’est dans l’en-tête des messages :
List-Id: 
List-URL: 
List-Post: 
List-Help: 
List-Subscribe: 

List-Unsubscribe: 


A+

> Le 13 juin 2022 à 17:38, mc2  a écrit :
> 
> bonjour,
> 
> Pourriez-vous enlever mon adresse de la liste de debian-user-french.
> 
> merci
> 

--
Pierre Malard

  « Si l'on veut croire en l'humanité,
 il faut voir et comprendre l'inhumanité »
   |\  _,,,---,,_
   /,`.-'`'-.  ;-;;,_
  |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
 '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)   πr

perl -e '$_=q#: 3|\ 5_,3-3,2_: 3/,`.'"'"'`'"'"' 5-.  ;-;;,_:  |,A-  ) )-,_. ,\ 
(  `'"'"'-'"'"': '"'"'-3'"'"'2(_/--'"'"'  `-'"'"'\_): 
24πr::#;y#:#\n#;s#(\D)(\d+)#$1x$2#ge;print'
- --> Ce message n’engage que son auteur <--



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Re: Re: [OT] Error de autenticación en cuentas @gmail.com en Clientes de Correo que no son el de Gmail.

2022-06-13 Thread Camaleón

El 2022-06-13 a las 19:00 +0200, Ramses escribió:

> El 13 de junio de 2022 18:28:12 CEST, "Camaleón"  
> escribió:
> >El 2022-06-13 a las 11:19 -0500, Aristobulo Pinzon escribió:
> >
> >> Buenos días...
> >> Y una pregunta: ¿Cómo configurar todas las cuentas de Gmail con 2FA?
> >> Gracias por facilitar ayuda.
> >
> >Sigue estos pasos:
> >
> >Activar la verificación en dos pasos
> >https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/185839?hl=es=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop=0
> >
> >Ojo, activar este sistema va bien para quienes NO usamos el webmail y 
> >mantenemos cuentas configuradas «a la antigua usanza», esto es, con 
> >clientes IMAP/POP3 que requieren usuario y contraseña.
> >
> >Cuando activas el 2FA cada vez que accedes a tu cuenta de Google/Gmail 
> >a través del webmail te manda un código SMS o te llama para permitr el 
> >acceso, lo cual no e s nada práctico si el webmail es el sistema de 
> >acceso más utilizado.
> >
> >Luego sólo tendrías que generar una contraseña de aplicación para que 
> >Google te cree una contraseña automáticamente, que es la que pones en 
> >la aplicación de correo o donde la vayas a usar.
> >
> 
> Una duda: ¿Puedes crear una única Contraseña de Aplicación en una cuenta y 
> usarla en todas las aplicaciones / clieide correo en las que uses esa cuenta?.

Sí, al menos yo lo tengo así (una contraseña para gobernarlos a 
todos...) y de momento no me ha dado problemas.

Desconozco si hay algún límite o si Google lleva la cuenta los inicios
 de sesión desde las distintas aplicaciones... yo me creo todo ya :-(

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón

Scanner Epson : attente interminable pour le lancer

2022-06-13 Thread antoine . valmer

Bonsoir à tous,

Je suis sous Debian-10.

J'ai une imprimante-scanner Epson WF-3520 reliée à la box par wifi.

L'imprimante marche très bien, mais pour le scanner, je dois attendre
un temps fou pour voir apparaître son écran de config graphique.
Je lance la commande "/usr/bin/xsane".

Cette attente ne se produit pas avec mes 2 autres ordinateurs.

J'ai totalement supprimé tous les paquets "sane", tout réinstallé,
et le blême recommence.

Merci d'une aide, piste...

Bonne soirée.

user perms


Greetings all;

I appear as user 1000 seem to be stuck behind some sort of a permissions 
wall.


I can't modify screen colors in any terminal or in mc, and mc's colors are all 
so alike I can
only read a directory list which is in a different color, if I want to read a 
file, I have to use nano.

I've installed cups which wasn't before along with the brother drivers for my 
two printers,
but they aren't configured, so I installed apache2 to use localhost:631 to set 
them up, firefox won't
run as root and cups is denying me permissions to do anything to the displayed 
printers its finding,
without asking me for a pw.

So obviously, something is wrong. I am a member of the sudo group and the lp 
group.

Do I have to do a 32nd install so it all hopefully gets fixed so I can actually 
do something?

hanks for any ideas.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: Re: [OT] Error de autenticación en cuentas @gmail.com en Clientes de Correo que no son el de Gmail.

2022-06-13 Thread Aristobulo Pinzon

Buenos días...
Y una pregunta: ¿Cómo configurar todas las cuentas de Gmail con 2FA?
Gracias por facilitar ayuda.

-- 
la Razón en su sentido absoluto no es algo que esté en el cielo esperando a
ser descubierto, sino que está mezclada con la sinrazón, con lo irrelevante
y lo cotidiano.

Re: How should learning to program in c++ be approached, if learning objectives are sought to be customised?