Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[ubiquitous1980]

Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:36 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
> mailto:volkerar...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>
> On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> > I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
> > important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
> > I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I
> need from
> > any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple
> > desktops. I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and
> > documentation toolchains or in a browser.
> >
> > The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me
> from running
> > out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
> odd-sounding thing
> > called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some dotfiles.
>  It turns out
> > to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've got a lot of space
> here and
> > there, but my /home partition was never near full before.
> >
> > I'd like to just nuke nepomuk, but fear the consequences.  I'm
> seriously
> > entertaining ideas about a more efficient way to run my Gentoo
> system,
> > although I'll probably keep kdelibs because I like a few of
> their games.
> > Similarly for gnome.  But I wonder what I should do about the rest.
> >
> > Ideas?
>
> just deactivate it.
>
> But one thing surprises me - I have 400gb of data in /home. And
> nepomuk just
> needs 600mb...
>
> Okay, but I don't really know what it is, let alone how to deactivate
> it.  I'll search around.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> -- 
> Kevin O'Gorman, PhD
>
Kevin

To deactivate it:

System Settings >  Desktop Search > [De-select] Enable Nepomuk Semantic
Desktop

In my case, on the same page, I disabled Strigi also.

Damien Sticklen

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CUPS - Some apps see printers, some do not

[Mark Knecht]

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 7:53 PM, walt  wrote:
> On 02/23/2010 06:23 PM, Mark Knecht wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>    I'm looking around in vain for info on why some apps (Open Office
>> apps for instance) see printers while other apps (Evolution and
>> Firefox for instance) do not. Apps that don't work seem to offer print
>> to file and print to LPR. On the other hand Open Office provides only
>> the obscenely ugly CUPS printer name
>> "HP_LaserJet_M1522nf_MFP_192.168.1.5".
>
> Ugly?  I think it's quite fetching, really.  Are you sure you're a real
> computer nerd?
>
> I have an HP LaserJet 3015 that works with everything in my gnome DE,
> but IIRC I struggled until I discovered the net-print/hplip package,
> which is the opensource driver supplied by HP.  It does everything
> including faxing, printing, and high-res color scanning all from my
> HP multi-function printer.
>
> Does your dad's machine have that package installed and configured?
>
>
>

Yes, version 3.9.12-r1 is installed but I'm not totally sure I'm using
the driver it supplied.

gandalf ~ # emerge -pv hplip

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild   R   ] net-print/hplip-3.9.12-r1  USE="gtk hpcups libnotify
qt4 -doc -fax -hpijs -minimal -new-hpcups -parport -policykit -scanner
-snmp -static-ppds -udev-acl" 0 kB

Total: 1 package (1 reinstall), Size of downloads: 0 kB

 * IMPORTANT: 1 news items need reading for repository 'gentoo'.
 * Use eselect news to read news items.

gandalf ~ #



# Printer configuration file for CUPS v1.3.11
# Written by cupsd on 2010-02-23 11:32

Info HP LaserJet M1522nf MFP
Location Local Printer
DeviceURI socket://192.168.1.5
State Idle
StateTime 1266953458
Accepting Yes
Shared Yes
JobSheets none none
QuotaPeriod 0
PageLimit 0
KLimit 0
OpPolicy default
ErrorPolicy stop-printer


Again, I figured it was working because Open Office finds it without
any trouble, but his Gnome account doesn't. (Nor does mine actually -
I cannot print from Firefox in my account either.)

Thanks,
Mark

[gentoo-user] Re: CUPS - Some apps see printers, some do not

[walt]

On 02/23/2010 06:23 PM, Mark Knecht wrote:

Hi,
I'm looking around in vain for info on why some apps (Open Office
apps for instance) see printers while other apps (Evolution and
Firefox for instance) do not. Apps that don't work seem to offer print
to file and print to LPR. On the other hand Open Office provides only
the obscenely ugly CUPS printer name
"HP_LaserJet_M1522nf_MFP_192.168.1.5".


Ugly?  I think it's quite fetching, really.  Are you sure you're a real
computer nerd?

I have an HP LaserJet 3015 that works with everything in my gnome DE,
but IIRC I struggled until I discovered the net-print/hplip package,
which is the opensource driver supplied by HP.  It does everything
including faxing, printing, and high-res color scanning all from my
HP multi-function printer.

Does your dad's machine have that package installed and configured?

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Kevin O'Gorman]

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:36 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann <
volkerar...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> > I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
> > important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
> > I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need from
> > any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple
> > desktops. I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and
> > documentation toolchains or in a browser.
> >
> > The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
> running
> > out of disk space.  A little research showed that an odd-sounding thing
> > called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some dotfiles.  It turns
> out
> > to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've got a lot of space here and
> > there, but my /home partition was never near full before.
> >
> > I'd like to just nuke nepomuk, but fear the consequences.  I'm seriously
> > entertaining ideas about a more efficient way to run my Gentoo system,
> > although I'll probably keep kdelibs because I like a few of their games.
> > Similarly for gnome.  But I wonder what I should do about the rest.
> >
> > Ideas?
>
> just deactivate it.
>
> But one thing surprises me - I have 400gb of data in /home. And nepomuk
> just
> needs 600mb...
>
> Okay, but I don't really know what it is, let alone how to deactivate it.
I'll search around.

Thanks.


-- 
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need from
> any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple
> desktops. I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and
> documentation toolchains or in a browser.
> 
> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from running
> out of disk space.  A little research showed that an odd-sounding thing
> called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some dotfiles.  It turns out
> to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've got a lot of space here and
> there, but my /home partition was never near full before.
> 
> I'd like to just nuke nepomuk, but fear the consequences.  I'm seriously
> entertaining ideas about a more efficient way to run my Gentoo system,
> although I'll probably keep kdelibs because I like a few of their games.
> Similarly for gnome.  But I wonder what I should do about the rest.
> 
> Ideas?

just deactivate it.

But one thing surprises me - I have 400gb of data in /home. And nepomuk just 
needs 600mb...

[gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Kevin O'Gorman]

I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need from any
of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple desktops.
I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
toolchains or in a browser.

The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from running
out of disk space.  A little research showed that an odd-sounding thing
called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some dotfiles.  It turns out
to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've got a lot of space here and
there, but my /home partition was never near full before.

I'd like to just nuke nepomuk, but fear the consequences.  I'm seriously
entertaining ideas about a more efficient way to run my Gentoo system,
although I'll probably keep kdelibs because I like a few of their games.
Similarly for gnome.  But I wonder what I should do about the rest.

Ideas?

-- 
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

[gentoo-user] CUPS - Some apps see printers, some do not

[Mark Knecht]

Hi,
   I'm looking around in vain for info on why some apps (Open Office
apps for instance) see printers while other apps (Evolution and
Firefox for instance) do not. Apps that don't work seem to offer print
to file and print to LPR. On the other hand Open Office provides only
the obscenely ugly CUPS printer name
"HP_LaserJet_M1522nf_MFP_192.168.1.5". The printer does work from Open
Office and printing test pages.

   Are default names like that a problem for Gnome which is the
environment my dad is using?

   The machine is remote so I'm having to ssh in and run apps remotely.

   On my machine running Gnome I didn't find any global configuration
for printing in the system menus. I typically run XFCE so I'm not
deeply familiar with what Gnome offers in terms of printer setup.

Thanks in advance,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 23 February 2010 16:25:45 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> There might be better options out there, but it requires getting used
> to those new options so they usually don't bother.

That's me with cfg-update, conf-update etc. I got used to etc-update and 
I still use it because I know how to.

-- 
Rgds
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:32:54 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:

> > And that all my mail is accessible from the same place,
> > including mails I'd never put on a server owned by someone
> > else.  
> 
> I guess I just have no interest in keeping archives of 50
> newsgroups/mailing-lists on a handful of different machines.

Nor me, that's why it's all on one server.

> Any "servers" I set up would be a lot less reliable and
> accessible than those at either Gmane or my Usenet provider.

Possible, but the connection between them and you may not. I need to keep
some of my mails locally, not stored at an online service - as the server
is already there and set up, it makes sense to use it for everything. For
me, using an email-to-usenet gateway would actually mean more work.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Two rights don't make a wrong, they make an airplane.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Stroller]

On 23 Feb 2010, at 09:09, Neil Bothwick wrote:

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:42:25 +, Stroller wrote:


Some comments were made recently about KDE4, where it was advised
"don't try using just Kmail under a different window manager - use  
the
whole KDE environment, but not single apps. Use something else  
instead

of Kmail".


I took it more as "KDE programs are intended to be run on KDE, so  
don't

complain if they don't work as you want elsewhere". So if it works and
you are happy with it, why change?


Well, duh! I'm not really happy with it. Not with all the  
dependencies. And whilst I see why they're necessary regarding KDE's  
future direction, I'd prefer to be without them.


Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Stroller]

On 23 Feb 2010, at 09:16, ubiquitous1980 wrote:

...
I don't use knode or usenet, but am I missing something?  Can't kde4
applications be used on Mac these days?


Perhaps.

The Mac Unix experience is that grep and sed and shellscripts and  
stuff like that are useful. If you just want something small like  
exiftool then it's easy to make && install it.


Larger packages with lots of dependencies, though, it's just less  
hassle to let a native package manager install them under Linux.


Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Stroller]

On 23 Feb 2010, at 09:29, Peter Ruskin wrote:

...
I've always used pan in preference to knode.


Thanks. From the screenshots at  it looks perfect.


Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] customized init script

[Stroller]

On 23 Feb 2010, at 09:18, hb-...@web.de wrote:


On 23.02.2010 09:41, Kaushal Shriyan wrote:

* Starting ScriptRunner ...
/sbin/start-stop-daemon: Unable to start
/usr/local/scriptrunner/bin/startup.sh: Exec format error (Exec  
format

error)[ ok ]

Looks like your startup.sh is not an executable. As I assume  
startup.sh

is a shell script. So it has to use "#!/bin/bash" as its first line


Suggest you run `head -n 1 /etc/init.d/* | grep runscript` and compare  
with the script the OP posted.


Stroller.

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Grant Edwards]

On 2010-02-23, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:33:56 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>>> No, I read them from a number of machines but using a single
>>> server that handles all the filtering too.  
>> 
>> Same here -- the only difference between the two approaches is
>> who's administering the server.  You handle it yourself, I let
>> gmane do it.  :)
>
> The main difference is that mine still works when my Internet
> connection is not available.

I read the mailing lists from many different locations. I don't
keep complete Usenet and mailing-list archives at all machines
and locations.  It doesn't really matter to me where the server
is -- if I've no network access, I can't read Usenet or mailing
lists.  But, it's just not an issue.

> And that all my mail is accessible from the same place,
> including mails I'd never put on a server owned by someone
> else.

I guess I just have no interest in keeping archives of 50
newsgroups/mailing-lists on a handful of different machines.
Any "servers" I set up would be a lot less reliable and
accessible than those at either Gmane or my Usenet provider.

-- 
Grant Edwards   grante Yow! So this is what it
  at   feels like to be potato
   visi.comsalad

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 23 February 2010 22:06:04 Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 09:22:10PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > On 02/23/2010 07:42 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > >>  [...]
> > >> 
> > >> You got me with that one :)  Just because I don't have this problem
> > >> doesn't mean no else does either.
> > > 
> > > You are permanently wired to the Internet? Don't you ever go out? :P
> > 
> > I'm referring to the machine.  It's always connected.  Broadband
> > flatrate ftw :P  There's no point in ever disconnecting it.
> 
> Someone obviously isn't a student with ridiculously expensive electricity.
> ;-)


Or an admin at a major ISP and *very* good friends with those who dish out the 
bandwidth  

A man must look after his friends in this world, and they will look after you 

:-)



-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Zeerak Mustafa Waseem]

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 09:22:10PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 02/23/2010 07:42 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> >>  [...]
> >> You got me with that one :)  Just because I don't have this problem
> >> doesn't mean no else does either.
> >
> > You are permanently wired to the Internet? Don't you ever go out? :P
> 
> I'm referring to the machine.  It's always connected.  Broadband 
> flatrate ftw :P  There's no point in ever disconnecting it.
> 
> 

Someone obviously isn't a student with ridiculously expensive electricity. ;-)

-- 
Zeerak Waseem


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:33:56 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:

> > No, I read them from a number of machines but using a single
> > server that handles all the filtering too.  
> 
> Same here -- the only difference between the two approaches is
> who's administering the server.  You handle it yourself, I let
> gmane do it.  :)

The main difference is that mine still works when my Internet connection
is not available. And that all my mail is accessible from the same place,
including mails I'd never put on a server owned by someone else.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

The law of Probability Dispersal decrees that whatever it is that hits
the fan will not be evenly distributed.


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[gentoo-user] Ping ElseCZ (re: Nvidia WAIT; (also KVM GPM passthrough ))

[7v5w7go9ub0o]

I tried to respond to your NVidia forums post; but couldn't join the 
forum (apparently they didn't like my gmail address).

- FWIW I get that wait (WAIT (E, 0, 0x0887d, 0) ) when I activate the 
following kernel options:

#  set "Bus options (PCI etc.)" -> "Support for DMA Remapping Devices" 
to "*"
# set "Bus options (PCI etc.)" -> "Enable DMA Remapping Devices" to "*"
# set "Bus options (PCI etc.)" -> "PCI Stub driver" to "*"

Activating these options is prescribed by the KVM folks to allow VM 
access of the GPM; < 
http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/How_to_assign_devices_with_VT-d_in_KVM>

- When I deactivate those options, the NV driver works fine. kernel: 
linux-2.6.32-gentoo-r6 (and r3)

- Perhaps you could post these comments in the NV form. Perhaps you 
could also advise them that they might get more participation if they 
were a little more accessible.

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/23/2010 07:42 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:

 [...]
You got me with that one :)  Just because I don't have this problem
doesn't mean no else does either.


You are permanently wired to the Internet? Don't you ever go out? :P


I'm referring to the machine.  It's always connected.  Broadband 
flatrate ftw :P  There's no point in ever disconnecting it.

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Grant Edwards]

On 2010-02-23, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:48:35 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> I get the impression you always read the mailing lists on a
>> single machine?  I read Gmane's "lists" from 4-5 different
>> machines and locations. Duplicating all that mail locally on
>> all those machines would be a pain.
>
> No, I read them from a number of machines but using a single
> server that handles all the filtering too.

Same here -- the only difference between the two approaches is
who's administering the server.  You handle it yourself, I let
gmane do it.  :)

-- 
Grant Edwards   grante Yow! Of course, you
  at   UNDERSTAND about the PLAIDS
   visi.comin the SPIN CYCLE --

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:25:45 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> > Which takes about ten seconds usually.
> 
> 10 is more than 0 :D

Not for large values of 0 :)

> >> , need to unsubscribe when you don't want to receive email
> >> anymore,
> >
> > Which takes about half that time, and both of these are infrequent
> > occurrences. For lists that I had only a transient interest in, I
> > would look at usenet versions.
> 
> And when later you want to subscribe again...

I'm not that indecisive... at least, I don't think I am ;-)

> >> need hard disk space to store all the downloaded messages,
> >> don't have access to messages from the time you weren't subscribed
> >> yet,
> >
> > No, but I do have access to  Google :)
> 
> Yes, but this requires to go to Google.  I have the messages right
> there in front of me.

What, all of them? You still need to search for old messages and if they
predate your subscribing you are only searching for specific information,
not particular threads. Or are you referring to backtracking a thread you
joined midway through? For that, online archives are useful.

> No, that wasn't my intention.  All I'm saying in the end is that people 
> stick to the ways they are used to do their tasks.  There might be 
> better options out there, but it requires getting used to those new 
> options so they usually don't bother.  I just though I'd mention the 
> stuff here so people actually know the option exists and has saved me 
> from quite some annoyances I had to deal with in the past.

Fair enough.

> > How do you read messages without an Internet connection?
> >
> > Everything has pros and cons.
> 
> You got me with that one :)  Just because I don't have this problem 
> doesn't mean no else does either.

You are permanently wired to the Internet? Don't you ever go out? :P


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Windows to CPU: Don't rush me, don't rush me...


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:48:35 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:

> I get the impression you always read the mailing lists on a
> single machine?  I read Gmane's "lists" from 4-5 different
> machines and locations. Duplicating all that mail locally on
> all those machines would be a pain.

No, I read them from a number of machines but using a single server that
handles all the filtering too.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Theory is when you know everything, but nothing works.
Reality is when everything works, but you don't know why.
However, usually theory and reality are mixed together :
Nothing works, and nobody knows why not.


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[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/23/2010 05:15 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:59:33 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:


You and I do the same thing in the end.  The difference is that you
waste bandwidth, need to set up filters every time you subscribe to a
new list


Which takes about ten seconds usually.


10 is more than 0 :D



, need to unsubscribe when you don't want to receive email
anymore,


Which takes about half that time, and both of these are infrequent
occurrences. For lists that I had only a transient interest in, I would
look at usenet versions.


And when later you want to subscribe again...



need hard disk space to store all the downloaded messages,
don't have access to messages from the time you weren't subscribed yet,


No, but I do have access to  Google :)


Yes, but this requires to go to Google.  I have the messages right there 
in front of me.




So in the end, we end up doing the same thing, by I do it in a saner
way that was designed to do exactly that. :)


No, you do it in a different way that suits your needs. That doesn't make
you right and people with other needs wrong. It just illustrates the
benefits of choice. I did not insult your choice, why assume that you
know better than me what I need?


No, that wasn't my intention.  All I'm saying in the end is that people 
stick to the ways they are used to do their tasks.  There might be 
better options out there, but it requires getting used to those new 
options so they usually don't bother.  I just though I'd mention the 
stuff here so people actually know the option exists and has saved me 
from quite some annoyances I had to deal with in the past.




It appears it only has
pros and no cons, so I don't see a reason to use email instead.


How do you read messages without an Internet connection?

Everything has pros and cons.


You got me with that one :)  Just because I don't have this problem 
doesn't mean no else does either.

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Paul Hartman]

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Stroller
 wrote:
> Some comments were made recently about KDE4, where it was advised "don't try
> using just Kmail under a different window manager - use the whole KDE
> environment, but not single apps. Use something else instead of Kmail".
>
> I kept my gob somewhat shut at that time, because I've been using Knode for
> a long time on my headless server. I ssh in from my Mac and open Knode in
> X11.
>
> I guess Usenet isn't so popular these days, and I have never been able to
> find a Mac native client that I'm happy with.
>
> I like Knode's simple 3-pane layout. Knode has improved visually with the
> KDE4 release, but the much debated KDE4 dependencies thing.
>
> It has only just occurred to me today to ask if there's an alternative that
> looks & acts just the same, but which isn't part of the whole KDE4
> environment.
>
> Any suggestions?

For textual usenet i use mail-client/mozilla-thunderbird. For binary
usenet I use net-nntp/bnr2.

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Grant Edwards]

On 2010-02-23, Nikos Chantziaras  wrote:
> On 02/23/2010 01:39 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 02/23/2010 12:26 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>
>>> Why are you passing the mail through a conversion gateway only
>>> to read it in a mail client? Wouldn't subscribing directly be
>>> even more simple?
>>
>> No, because then I would get all the mail in my inbox and I
>> would be the one responsible for filtering it; a total waste
>> on bandwidth and my time. GMane does that for me instead.
>
> Just to make my point more clear:
>
>http://i50.tinypic.com/15ow2g8.png
>
> All of these under the "GMane" groups are mailing lists, but they appear 
> just like Usenet newsgroups.  I can't imagine any easier way to easily 
> deal with 30+ mailing list subscriptions.

I too use Gmane to read all mailing lists, but I use a
dedicated news client (slrn) instead of a combined e-mail/news
client.  I definitely don't want all those e-mailes coming
through my in-box where _I've_ got to filter, sort, and archive
them. I'd much rather let gmane handle that.

-- 
Grant Edwards   grante Yow! BARBARA STANWYCK makes
  at   me nervous!!
   visi.com

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Grant Edwards]

On 2010-02-23, Neil Bothwick  wrote:

> With the downside being that the process is slower, as you
> have to download each message or thread as you want to read
> it. Contrast this with having email delivered whether you are
> reading it or not and being filtered at the moment of arrival
> so it is instantly available, sorted into folders, when you
> start up your client.

I get the impression you always read the mailing lists on a
single machine?  I read Gmane's "lists" from 4-5 different
machines and locations. Duplicating all that mail locally on
all those machines would be a pain.

> However, this convenience uses more bandwidth, so if that is
> worth more to you than your time, using Usenet for selective
> reading does make sense.

-- 
Grant Edwards   grante Yow! Hello...  IRON
  at   CURTAIN?  Send over a
   visi.comSAUSAGE PIZZA!  World War
   III?  No thanks!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:59:33 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> You and I do the same thing in the end.  The difference is that you 
> waste bandwidth, need to set up filters every time you subscribe to a 
> new list

Which takes about ten seconds usually.

>, need to unsubscribe when you don't want to receive email 
> anymore,

Which takes about half that time, and both of these are infrequent
occurrences. For lists that I had only a transient interest in, I would
look at usenet versions. 

> need hard disk space to store all the downloaded messages, 
> don't have access to messages from the time you weren't subscribed yet, 

No, but I do have access to  Google :)

> So in the end, we end up doing the same thing, by I do it in a saner
> way that was designed to do exactly that. :)

No, you do it in a different way that suits your needs. That doesn't make
you right and people with other needs wrong. It just illustrates the
benefits of choice. I did not insult your choice, why assume that you
know better than me what I need?

> It appears it only has
> pros and no cons, so I don't see a reason to use email instead.

How do you read messages without an Internet connection?

Everything has pros and cons.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Walk softly and carry a fully charged phazer.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Skype && pulseaudio [SOLVED]

[Alexander Puchmayr]

Am Dienstag 23 Februar 2010 13:48:29 schrieb Mike Mazur:
> Hi,
>
> 
> Usually the pavucontrol app does this. When a call starts, open
> pavucontrol (or Applications -> Sound & Video -> PulseAudio Volume
> Control), find your Skype call in the Streams list, right-click and
> pick the device you want that call to use.
> 
Aaaahh! The trick is to start a call (echo123 for example), then use 
pavucontrol. Then you see the skype-specific streams which you can re-assign.

> As the note at the bottom of the Streams tab says, this appears to
> only modify the output device, not the input device. That would
> explain why Skype stubbornly continued to use only the built-in mic in
> my case.
> 
> Hope that helps,

Yes, that solved the problem :-) Thanks a lot!

Alex

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/23/2010 03:08 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:39:48 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

I am currently "subscribed" to 31 mailing lists on GMane.  I don't even
want to imagine what would happen if I would receive email from all of
them (and 90% of the posts would not interest me anyway, so why recieve
them in the first place?)  It's just not practical.  A Usenet-like
front-end is the perfect solution here; a mailing list is very similar
to a Usenet newsgroup and that's why this approach is the most
practical one.  And even if I were subscribed to only one list, it
would still be the best way to access it; even though the traffic is
much lower when compared to 31 lists, but it's still high enough to get
annoying with something landing on your inbox every 10 minutes or so,
even stuff you don't intend to read.  With Usenet, you only get what
you're interested in, and you get it in a way that is very easy to
access and browse though.


With the downside being that the process is slower, as you have to
download each message or thread as you want to read it. Contrast this
with having email delivered whether you are reading it or not and being
filtered at the moment of arrival so it is instantly available, sorted
into folders, when you start up your client. However, this convenience
uses more bandwidth, so if that is worth more to you than your time, using
Usenet for selective reading does make sense.


No, each message gets downloaded in under 1 second; it immediately 
appears when you click on it.  It's blindingly fast.  No surprise 
though, since it's just text.  However, downloading thousands of 
messages per day that I don't intent to read is a waste of bandwidth. 
It's not so much about time, it's about volume.


You and I do the same thing in the end.  The difference is that you 
waste bandwidth, need to set up filters every time you subscribe to a 
new list, need to unsubscribe when you don't want to receive email 
anymore, need hard disk space to store all the downloaded messages, 
don't have access to messages from the time you weren't subscribed yet, 
and probably more I can't think of right now.


So in the end, we end up doing the same thing, by I do it in a saner way 
that was designed to do exactly that. :)  It appears it only has pros 
and no cons, so I don't see a reason to use email instead.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:48:03 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

>http://i50.tinypic.com/15ow2g8.png
> 
> All of these under the "GMane" groups are mailing lists, but they
> appear just like Usenet newsgroups.  I can't imagine any easier way to
> easily deal with 30+ mailing list subscriptions.

That looks just like my mailboxes do :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Anything is possible if you don't know what
you are talking about.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:39:48 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> > Why are you passing the mail through a conversion gateway only to
> > read it in a mail client? Wouldn't subscribing directly be even more
> > simple?  
> 
> No, because then I would get all the mail in my inbox and I would be
> the one responsible for filtering it; a total waste on bandwidth and my 
> time.  GMane does that for me instead.

Well, setting up filters is hardly taxing or time consuming, but I see
your point.

> I am currently "subscribed" to 31 mailing lists on GMane.  I don't even 
> want to imagine what would happen if I would receive email from all of 
> them (and 90% of the posts would not interest me anyway, so why recieve 
> them in the first place?)  It's just not practical.  A Usenet-like 
> front-end is the perfect solution here; a mailing list is very similar 
> to a Usenet newsgroup and that's why this approach is the most
> practical one.  And even if I were subscribed to only one list, it
> would still be the best way to access it; even though the traffic is
> much lower when compared to 31 lists, but it's still high enough to get
> annoying with something landing on your inbox every 10 minutes or so,
> even stuff you don't intend to read.  With Usenet, you only get what
> you're interested in, and you get it in a way that is very easy to
> access and browse though.

With the downside being that the process is slower, as you have to
download each message or thread as you want to read it. Contrast this
with having email delivered whether you are reading it or not and being
filtered at the moment of arrival so it is instantly available, sorted
into folders, when you start up your client. However, this convenience
uses more bandwidth, so if that is worth more to you than your time, using
Usenet for selective reading does make sense.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

furbling, v.:
Having to wander through a maze of ropes at an airport or bank
even when you are the only person in line.
-- Rich Hall, "Sniglets"


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Re: [gentoo-user] Skype && pulseaudio

[Mike Mazur]

Hi,

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 16:08, Alexander Puchmayr
 wrote:
> The original problem is still not solved: How do I tell pulseaudio that the
> sound from application XX shall go to device YY ???

Usually the pavucontrol app does this. When a call starts, open
pavucontrol (or Applications -> Sound & Video -> PulseAudio Volume
Control), find your Skype call in the Streams list, right-click and
pick the device you want that call to use.

As the note at the bottom of the Streams tab says, this appears to
only modify the output device, not the input device. That would
explain why Skype stubbornly continued to use only the built-in mic in
my case.

Hope that helps,
Mike

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Mick]

On 23 February 2010 11:48, Nikos Chantziaras  wrote:
> On 02/23/2010 01:39 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>
>> On 02/23/2010 12:26 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:11:40 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>
 I'm on KDE4 but I use Thunderbird for both Usenet (including this
 mailing list through GMane's "mailing-list-to-Usenet" interface) and
 email. I like the simplicity and using only one app for both.
>>>
>>> Why are you passing the mail through a conversion gateway only to read it
>>> in a mail client? Wouldn't subscribing directly be even more simple?
>>
>> No, because then I would get all the mail in my inbox and I would be the
>> one responsible for filtering it; a total waste on bandwidth and my
>> time. GMane does that for me instead.
>
> Just to make my point more clear:
>
>  http://i50.tinypic.com/15ow2g8.png
>
> All of these under the "GMane" groups are mailing lists, but they appear
> just like Usenet newsgroups.  I can't imagine any easier way to easily deal
> with 30+ mailing list subscriptions.

Also, unlike when using a mail client, with usenet you don't have to
download the message/thread if you're not interested in reading it.

Back to the OP's topic, I am also using Knode (but not for this M/L).
If you set your USE flags right you should be able to continue using
Kmail/Knode without some of the dependencies that the full KDE4
desktop requires.  However, I don't know if from KDE4.4 changes on
dependencies (as per recent thread on semantic-desktop) mean that more
of these will be pulled in.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/23/2010 01:39 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

On 02/23/2010 12:26 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:11:40 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:


I'm on KDE4 but I use Thunderbird for both Usenet (including this
mailing list through GMane's "mailing-list-to-Usenet" interface) and
email. I like the simplicity and using only one app for both.


Why are you passing the mail through a conversion gateway only to read it
in a mail client? Wouldn't subscribing directly be even more simple?


No, because then I would get all the mail in my inbox and I would be the
one responsible for filtering it; a total waste on bandwidth and my
time. GMane does that for me instead.


Just to make my point more clear:

  http://i50.tinypic.com/15ow2g8.png

All of these under the "GMane" groups are mailing lists, but they appear 
just like Usenet newsgroups.  I can't imagine any easier way to easily 
deal with 30+ mailing list subscriptions.

Re: [gentoo-user] customized init script

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 23 February 2010 08:41:20 Kaushal Shriyan wrote:

> /usr/local/scriptrunner/bin/startup.sh: Exec format error

When I've got that error it's been because I'd tried to chroot from a 
32-bit system into a 64-bit, or vice versa. Naturally, one width of bash 
won't run on an other-width system.

I don't know how this helps you, but it's all I can offer.  :-(

-- 
Rgds
Peter.

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/23/2010 12:26 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:11:40 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:


I'm on KDE4 but I use Thunderbird for both Usenet (including this
mailing list through GMane's "mailing-list-to-Usenet" interface) and
email.  I like the simplicity and using only one app for both.


Why are you passing the mail through a conversion gateway only to read it
in a mail client? Wouldn't subscribing directly be even more simple?


No, because then I would get all the mail in my inbox and I would be the 
one responsible for filtering it; a total waste on bandwidth and my 
time.  GMane does that for me instead.


I am currently "subscribed" to 31 mailing lists on GMane.  I don't even 
want to imagine what would happen if I would receive email from all of 
them (and 90% of the posts would not interest me anyway, so why recieve 
them in the first place?)  It's just not practical.  A Usenet-like 
front-end is the perfect solution here; a mailing list is very similar 
to a Usenet newsgroup and that's why this approach is the most practical 
one.  And even if I were subscribed to only one list, it would still be 
the best way to access it; even though the traffic is much lower when 
compared to 31 lists, but it's still high enough to get annoying with 
something landing on your inbox every 10 minutes or so, even stuff you 
don't intend to read.  With Usenet, you only get what you're interested 
in, and you get it in a way that is very easy to access and browse though.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:11:40 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> I'm on KDE4 but I use Thunderbird for both Usenet (including this 
> mailing list through GMane's "mailing-list-to-Usenet" interface) and 
> email.  I like the simplicity and using only one app for both.

Why are you passing the mail through a conversion gateway only to read it
in a mail client? Wouldn't subscribing directly be even more simple?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

SITCOM: Single Income, Two Children, Oppressive Mortgage


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[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/23/2010 07:42 AM, Stroller wrote:

Some comments were made recently about KDE4, where it was advised "don't
try using just Kmail under a different window manager - use the whole
KDE environment, but not single apps. Use something else instead of Kmail".

I kept my gob somewhat shut at that time, because I've been using Knode
for a long time on my headless server. I ssh in from my Mac and open
Knode in X11.

I guess Usenet isn't so popular these days, and I have never been able
to find a Mac native client that I'm happy with.

I like Knode's simple 3-pane layout. Knode has improved visually with
the KDE4 release, but the much debated KDE4 dependencies thing.

It has only just occurred to me today to ask if there's an alternative
that looks & acts just the same, but which isn't part of the whole KDE4
environment.

Any suggestions?


I'm on KDE4 but I use Thunderbird for both Usenet (including this 
mailing list through GMane's "mailing-list-to-Usenet" interface) and 
email.  I like the simplicity and using only one app for both.

Re: [gentoo-user] customized init script

[Amit Dor-Shifer]

Kaushal Shriyan wrote:

Hi,

I have a customized script.

hosta# /etc/init.d/scriptrunner start
 * Starting ScriptRunner ...
/sbin/start-stop-daemon: Unable to start
/usr/local/scriptrunner/bin/startup.sh: Exec format error (Exec format
error)[ ok ]
hosta#

My customized script is as below

#!/sbin/runscript
# Copyright 1999-2004 Gentoo Foundation
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2
# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/www-servers/tomcat/files/5.0.27/tomcat.init,v
1.3 2004/10/08 13:38:08 axxo Exp $

start() {
ebegin "Starting ScriptRunner"
start-stop-daemon --start --exec /usr/local/scriptrunner/bin/startup.sh
sleep 5
eend $?
}

stop()  {
ebegin "Stopping ScriptRunner"
start-stop-daemon --stop --exec /usr/local/scriptrunner/bin/shutdown.sh
sleep 5
eend $?
}

Please suggest/guide

Thanks,

Kaushal

  

Looks like startup.sh is invalid.
Perhaps check what 'file /usr/local/scriptrunner/bin/startup.sh'  returns.
Amit

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[ubiquitous1980]

Peter Ruskin wrote:
> On Tuesday 23 February 2010 05:42:25 Stroller wrote:
>   
>> Some comments were made recently about KDE4, where it was advised
>> "don't try using just Kmail under a different window manager -
>> use the whole KDE environment, but not single apps. Use something
>> else instead of Kmail".
>>
>> I kept my gob somewhat shut at that time, because I've been using
>> Knode for a long time on my headless server. I ssh in from my Mac
>> and open Knode in X11.
>>
>> I guess Usenet isn't so popular these days, and I have never been
>> able to find a Mac native client that I'm happy with.
>>
>> I like Knode's simple 3-pane layout. Knode has improved visually
>> with the KDE4 release, but the much debated KDE4 dependencies
>> thing.
>>
>> It has only just occurred to me today to ask if there's an
>> alternative that looks & acts just the same, but which isn't part
>> of the whole KDE4 environment.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Stroller.
>> 
>
> I've always used pan in preference to knode.
>
>   
I don't use knode or usenet, but am I missing something?  Can't kde4
applications be used on Mac these days?

Re: [gentoo-user] customized init script

[hb-xxl]

On 23.02.2010 09:41, Kaushal Shriyan wrote:
>  * Starting ScriptRunner ...
> /sbin/start-stop-daemon: Unable to start
> /usr/local/scriptrunner/bin/startup.sh: Exec format error (Exec format
> error)[ ok ]
>   
Looks like your startup.sh is not an executable. As I assume startup.sh
is a shell script. So it has to use "#!/bin/bash" as its first line and
has to be marked executable (at least chmod u+rx startup.sh).

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:42:25 +, Stroller wrote:

> Some comments were made recently about KDE4, where it was advised  
> "don't try using just Kmail under a different window manager - use the  
> whole KDE environment, but not single apps. Use something else instead  
> of Kmail".

I took it more as "KDE programs are intended to be run on KDE, so don't
complain if they don't work as you want elsewhere". So if it works and
you are happy with it, why change?

> I like Knode's simple 3-pane layout. Knode has improved visually with  
> the KDE4 release, but the much debated KDE4 dependencies thing.
> 
> It has only just occurred to me today to ask if there's an alternative  
> that looks & acts just the same, but which isn't part of the whole  
> KDE4 environment.

I haven't done usenet in a while, but when I did I preferred Pan to
Knode. While I am a KDE fan, I do find myself using quite a few GTK apps
on my KDE desktop.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

The considered application of terror is also a form of communication.


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[gentoo-user] customized init script

[Kaushal Shriyan]

Hi,

I have a customized script.

hosta# /etc/init.d/scriptrunner start
 * Starting ScriptRunner ...
/sbin/start-stop-daemon: Unable to start
/usr/local/scriptrunner/bin/startup.sh: Exec format error (Exec format
error)[ ok ]
hosta#

My customized script is as below

#!/sbin/runscript
# Copyright 1999-2004 Gentoo Foundation
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2
# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/www-servers/tomcat/files/5.0.27/tomcat.init,v
1.3 2004/10/08 13:38:08 axxo Exp $

start() {
ebegin "Starting ScriptRunner"
start-stop-daemon --start --exec /usr/local/scriptrunner/bin/startup.sh
sleep 5
eend $?
}

stop()  {
ebegin "Stopping ScriptRunner"
start-stop-daemon --stop --exec /usr/local/scriptrunner/bin/shutdown.sh
sleep 5
eend $?
}

Please suggest/guide

Thanks,

Kaushal

Re: [gentoo-user] Skype && pulseaudio

[Alexander Puchmayr]

Am Montag 22 Februar 2010 17:42:22 schrieb David:
> Alexander Puchmayr wrote:
> > Just tried this tool, but it seems to be a complete failure. Just gives a
> > box with "connection refused", but no information what it tries to
> > connect to. The pulseaudio-deamon itself is running, and I can connect to
> > it via pacmd without any problem.
> >
> > Alex
> 

I really don't know what was going on yesterday, but after getting rid of the 
~/.pulse directory and logging out and in again, this particular problem 
vanished. 

NB: I started the deamon as user, not as root. 

> I don't use it system wide, here are the guides I used;
> http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-789181-highlight-pulseaudio.html
> http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/PerfectSetup
> 

The original problem is still not solved: How do I tell pulseaudio that the 
sound from application XX shall go to device YY ???

Alex