Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
I can just about understand the need for people to want to belong to something they believe in, or would like to be a part of, but anything that by nature is exclusive does not get my support or interest. Cheers, Cotty 2000 people from the PDML will show up at your local pub tomorrow, blocking the door so you can't get in and quaff your thirst with a pint. Then we'll see how you feel about exclusive. ;-) Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
What's *hard* to imagine about Pentax? Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 06:58:49 -0700 (PDT) No way it could be stated any better, Frank. Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard to imagine. Could be they consider accepted artist voting a handy explanation..if needed. When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive wanes. Jack --- frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/27/07, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. snip I agree 100%! Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition. I thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they were in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos. I didn't see it as grading or rating photos, merely accepting. I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most. I didn't understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is. I know my photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really they don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I have to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal, ordinary photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot. It may be that these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer voters, and the gallery needed photos, but it certainly points to a glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO. Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been fun. Having everything rejected isn't fun at all... cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Tom, what time is this meet... I have a production rehearsal at 7 PM EST...so with the travel time to the U.K it's going to tighten up my day considerably... - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:55 AM Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation I can just about understand the need for people to want to belong to something they believe in, or would like to be a part of, but anything that by nature is exclusive does not get my support or interest. Cheers, Cotty 2000 people from the PDML will show up at your local pub tomorrow, blocking the door so you can't get in and quaff your thirst with a pint. Then we'll see how you feel about exclusive. ;-) Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.32/1032 - Release Date: 9/26/2007 8:20 PM -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Fascinating (in Mr Spock of Vulcan way)... I tend to agree with you on most of the sentiments you expressed. In fact, I kind of thought it would be competitive (the Pentax gallery thingie) from the start. Given the fact that the submitted work is filtered by someone else immediately implies that there are criteria to be met. And here we have it - the competition. Boris Cotty wrote: On 27/09/07, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: I really thought that you were rather competitive person, Cotty. I am fairly competitive, but in photography I don't feel any desire to prove anything. So I don't really participate in competitions... My competitive side extends solely to my professional life. Needs must. Beyond that, I'm not a keen advocate of the 'I am better than you and I would like it personally vindicated' philosophy. Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. To encourage creativity? Loada bollux! I can just about understand the need for people to want to belong to something they believe in, or would like to be a part of, but anything that by nature is exclusive does not get my support or interest. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
LOL Cory. :-) Tom C. From: cbwaters [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:09:46 -0400 Tom, what time is this meet... I have a production rehearsal at 7 PM EST...so with the travel time to the U.K it's going to tighten up my day considerably... - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:55 AM Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation I can just about understand the need for people to want to belong to something they believe in, or would like to be a part of, but anything that by nature is exclusive does not get my support or interest. Cheers, Cotty 2000 people from the PDML will show up at your local pub tomorrow, blocking the door so you can't get in and quaff your thirst with a pint. Then we'll see how you feel about exclusive. ;-) Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.32/1032 - Release Date: 9/26/2007 8:20 PM -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
From: ann sanfedele Gonz wrote: Oops that should have been family Leporidae. I'm not sure whether Frank is a Rabbit or a Hare. wabbit A wascally wabbit? he-he-e-e-e -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On Sep 27, 2007, at 12:09 AM, Cotty wrote: My competitive side extends solely to my professional life. Needs must. Beyond that, I'm not a keen advocate of the 'I am better than you and I would like it personally vindicated' philosophy. Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. To encourage creativity? Loada bollux! I can just about understand the need for people to want to belong to something they believe in, or would like to be a part of, but anything that by nature is exclusive does not get my support or interest. I agree completely. I enter photos into exhibition contests on a regular basis as a part of my professional business. It's a crap shoot ... anyone with any sense realizes that a competition of this sort is 100% subjective whimsy on the part of the juror committee. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation No way it could be stated any better, Frank. Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard to imagine. Could be they consider accepted artist voting a handy explanation..if needed. When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive wanes. snip Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. snip I agree 100%! Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition. I thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they were in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos. I didn't see it as grading or rating photos, merely accepting. I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most. I didn't understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is. I know my photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really they don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I have to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal, ordinary photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot. It may be that these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer voters, and the gallery needed photos, but it certainly points to a glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO. Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been fun. Having everything rejected isn't fun at all... It's unfortunate that you believe that getting your photos to meet a minimum standard isn't a competition. Any time someone puts up a bar that you need to clear to get a reward, it is a competition. Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. OTOH, I really do think the people running the gallery totally buggered up when they changed the acceptance procedure into a peer based popularity contest. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
From: frank theriault n 9/27/07, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. snip I agree 100%! Unless the prize for the winning photograph is worth having. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Well, Robb, I'm not surprised that it's being viewed as a competition. If one chooses to consider the accepted image count as a 'score' against which one is competing, then it's a competition. Your choice. Jack --- William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation No way it could be stated any better, Frank. Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard to imagine. Could be they consider accepted artist voting a handy explanation..if needed. When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive wanes. snip Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. snip I agree 100%! Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition. I thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they were in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos. I didn't see it as grading or rating photos, merely accepting. I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most. I didn't understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is. I know my photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really they don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I have to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal, ordinary photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot. It may be that these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer voters, and the gallery needed photos, but it certainly points to a glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO. Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been fun. Having everything rejected isn't fun at all... It's unfortunate that you believe that getting your photos to meet a minimum standard isn't a competition. Any time someone puts up a bar that you need to clear to get a reward, it is a competition. Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. OTOH, I really do think the people running the gallery totally buggered up when they changed the acceptance procedure into a peer based popularity contest. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 27/09/07, Tom C, discombobulated, unleashed: 2000 people from the PDML will show up at your local pub tomorrow, blocking the door so you can't get in and quaff your thirst with a pint. Then we'll see how you feel about exclusive. ;-) Har!! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 27/09/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed: Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. Question: how subjective is this standard? -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 27/09/07, cbwaters, discombobulated, unleashed: Tom, what time is this meet... I have a production rehearsal at 7 PM EST...so with the travel time to the U.K it's going to tighten up my day considerably... Ceeb I think you'd like it over here. Ever been? We could show you a pretty nice stadium for starters -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Actually, I consider I'm just vying for a favorable subjective opinion from da 'judge'. Jack --- Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 27/09/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed: Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. Question: how subjective is this standard? -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
2000 people from the PDML will show up at your local pub tomorrow, blocking the door so you can't get in and quaff your thirst with a pint. Tom C. You buying ? Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation I can just about understand the need for people to want to belong to something they believe in, or would like to be a part of, but anything that by nature is exclusive does not get my support or interest. Cheers, Cotty 2000 people from the PDML will show up at your local pub tomorrow, blocking the door so you can't get in and quaff your thirst with a pint. Then we'll see how you feel about exclusive. ;-) Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
It's a personal competition, but you're not competing against others. For the accepted image count to be a score, everyone would have to make the same number of submissions. I recall one PDML member saying he was submitting between five and ten shots every day. That obviously will skew the curve. Which is fine, but that's why it's not a mine vs. yours competition. At least that's what I think. And in the end, none of it matters a hoot:-). Paul -- Original message -- From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, Robb, I'm not surprised that it's being viewed as a competition. If one chooses to consider the accepted image count as a 'score' against which one is competing, then it's a competition. Your choice. Jack --- William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation No way it could be stated any better, Frank. Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard to imagine. Could be they consider accepted artist voting a handy explanation..if needed. When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive wanes. snip Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. snip I agree 100%! Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition. I thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they were in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos. I didn't see it as grading or rating photos, merely accepting. I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most. I didn't understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is. I know my photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really they don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I have to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal, ordinary photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot. It may be that these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer voters, and the gallery needed photos, but it certainly points to a glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO. Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been fun. Having everything rejected isn't fun at all... It's unfortunate that you believe that getting your photos to meet a minimum standard isn't a competition. Any time someone puts up a bar that you need to clear to get a reward, it is a competition. Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. OTOH, I really do think the people running the gallery totally buggered up when they changed the acceptance procedure into a peer based popularity contest. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Cotty wrote: On 27/09/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed: Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. Question: how subjective is this standard? Same as all competitions: Very. Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
..or a holler!! ;) Jack --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's a personal competition, but you're not competing against others. For the accepted image count to be a score, everyone would have to make the same number of submissions. I recall one PDML member saying he was submitting between five and ten shots every day. That obviously will skew the curve. Which is fine, but that's why it's not a mine vs. yours competition. At least that's what I think. And in the end, none of it matters a hoot:-). Paul -- Original message -- From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, Robb, I'm not surprised that it's being viewed as a competition. If one chooses to consider the accepted image count as a 'score' against which one is competing, then it's a competition. Your choice. Jack --- William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation No way it could be stated any better, Frank. Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard to imagine. Could be they consider accepted artist voting a handy explanation..if needed. When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive wanes. snip Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. snip I agree 100%! Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition. I thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they were in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos. I didn't see it as grading or rating photos, merely accepting. I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most. I didn't understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is. I know my photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really they don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I have to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal, ordinary photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot. It may be that these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer voters, and the gallery needed photos, but it certainly points to a glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO. Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been fun. Having everything rejected isn't fun at all... It's unfortunate that you believe that getting your photos to meet a minimum standard isn't a competition. Any time someone puts up a bar that you need to clear to get a reward, it is a competition. Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. OTOH, I really do think the people running the gallery totally buggered up when they changed the acceptance procedure into a peer based popularity contest. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
I agree. If acceptance is left purely to a judging panel, then we can expect the regular subjectivity. If it's based on a general vote of others, then it's also suspect, as the general public doesn't know hooey about good photography. I'd like to know the qualifications of the judges, myself. It is totally possible photos are being judged by people with no other particular qualifications than that they work for Pentax, which is totally within their bailiwick, just not reassuring. If the gallery is designed to be a high-quality gallery, then all images should clearly be outstanding. If it's not designed to be that, then the result will be something less. (Stating the obvious). Tom C. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:45:35 + It's a personal competition, but you're not competing against others. For the accepted image count to be a score, everyone would have to make the same number of submissions. I recall one PDML member saying he was submitting between five and ten shots every day. That obviously will skew the curve. Which is fine, but that's why it's not a mine vs. yours competition. At least that's what I think. And in the end, none of it matters a hoot:-). Paul -- Original message -- From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, Robb, I'm not surprised that it's being viewed as a competition. If one chooses to consider the accepted image count as a 'score' against which one is competing, then it's a competition. Your choice. Jack --- William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation No way it could be stated any better, Frank. Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard to imagine. Could be they consider accepted artist voting a handy explanation..if needed. When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive wanes. snip Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. snip I agree 100%! Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition. I thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they were in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos. I didn't see it as grading or rating photos, merely accepting. I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most. I didn't understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is. I know my photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really they don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I have to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal, ordinary photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot. It may be that these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer voters, and the gallery needed photos, but it certainly points to a glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO. Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been fun. Having everything rejected isn't fun at all... It's unfortunate that you believe that getting your photos to meet a minimum standard isn't a competition. Any time someone puts up a bar that you need to clear to get a reward, it is a competition. Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. OTOH, I really do think the people running the gallery totally buggered up when they changed the acceptance procedure into a peer based popularity contest. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
You're right, it isn't. You might look at it from the standpoint of a vocal 'artist' who looks for applause when she stops singing. Approval can be intoxicating. Jack --- Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cotty wrote: On 27/09/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed: Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. Question: how subjective is this standard? Same as all competitions: Very. Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question: how subjective is this standard? Same as all competitions: Very. Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the accepted artists' voting: How many votes are required to be accepted or rejected? What percentage of yes votes is required for acceptance? and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first screening can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel. We don't know who those people are, and what they're looking for. It's all very closed door, which to me makes it something of a crap-shoot. I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them all rejected makes me a better photographer. It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me. Some may find this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't. I mean, hey, no hard feelings. Pentax can run this thing any way they want; it's their contest. However, if this is the way they choose to run it, my choice is to not participate. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
frank theriault wrote: I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? And it's a moving target, to boot. You never know who may be voting on your photo at any given time. Subjective is one thing. Variably subjective is irritating at best. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Subjective is one thing. Variably subjective is irritating at best. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ ... said the married man... Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Pooka Gonz wrote: Oops that should have been family Leporidae. I'm not sure whether Frank is a Rabbit or a Hare. On 9/26/07, Gonz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank, didn't you read the fine print? In Title 9, section 4, paragraph 110, Item b) : No work shall be accepted from the class Lepus and all its associated species and subspecies. =:) On 9/26/07, frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation
How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow? Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. Hope that helps. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of frank theriault Sent: 27 September 2007 21:29 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question: how subjective is this standard? Same as all competitions: Very. Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the accepted artists' voting: How many votes are required to be accepted or rejected? What percentage of yes votes is required for acceptance? and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first screening can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel. We don't know who those people are, and what they're looking for. It's all very closed door, which to me makes it something of a crap-shoot. I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them all rejected makes me a better photographer. It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me. Some may find this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't. I mean, hey, no hard feelings. Pentax can run this thing any way they want; it's their contest. However, if this is the way they choose to run it, my choice is to not participate. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation
USE THE FORCE, FRANK. Tom C. From: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' pdml@pdml.net Subject: RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:07:05 +0100 How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow? Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. Hope that helps. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of frank theriault Sent: 27 September 2007 21:29 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question: how subjective is this standard? Same as all competitions: Very. Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the accepted artists' voting: How many votes are required to be accepted or rejected? What percentage of yes votes is required for acceptance? and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first screening can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel. We don't know who those people are, and what they're looking for. It's all very closed door, which to me makes it something of a crap-shoot. I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them all rejected makes me a better photographer. It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me. Some may find this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't. I mean, hey, no hard feelings. Pentax can run this thing any way they want; it's their contest. However, if this is the way they choose to run it, my choice is to not participate. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 9/27/07, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pooka Just like Harvey... :-) cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Gee thanks. Now how do I get this arrow out of my butt? Ob.Trivia - did you know that archery targets are called 'butts'? Do you know why? As far as the Pentax Gallery goes - I didn't submit originally for a couple of reasons; my first attempt didn't work (because I was trying to submit a scanned image, and there was a bug in their validation code), and I never got round to writing a bio. Now, after hearing of all the various problems others are having, I doubt if I'll bother to submit anything (and I *still* haven't written a bio). On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 10:07:05PM +0100, Bob W wrote: How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow? Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. Hope that helps. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of frank theriault Sent: 27 September 2007 21:29 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question: how subjective is this standard? Same as all competitions: Very. Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the accepted artists' voting: How many votes are required to be accepted or rejected? What percentage of yes votes is required for acceptance? and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first screening can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel. We don't know who those people are, and what they're looking for. It's all very closed door, which to me makes it something of a crap-shoot. I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them all rejected makes me a better photographer. It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me. Some may find this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't. I mean, hey, no hard feelings. Pentax can run this thing any way they want; it's their contest. However, if this is the way they choose to run it, my choice is to not participate. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 27/09/07, Mark Roberts, discombobulated, unleashed: Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Points taken! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 27/09/07, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed: I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the accepted artists' voting: How many votes are required to be accepted or rejected? What percentage of yes votes is required for acceptance? and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first screening can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel. We don't know who those people are, and what they're looking for. It's all very closed door, which to me makes it something of a crap-shoot. I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them all rejected makes me a better photographer. It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me. Some may find this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't. I mean, hey, no hard feelings. Pentax can run this thing any way they want; it's their contest. However, if this is the way they choose to run it, my choice is to not participate. Hey Frank, let's start our own gallery pages :- Avante-garde??? You ain't seen nothin yet baby!! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Bob W wrote: How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow? Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. Hope that helps. That's a funny reply and it's essentially correct. Any kind of artistic endeavor is just like real life: There's no definite target, no step-by-step instructions that will guarantee success. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Mercy that's deep. Jack --- Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow? Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. Hope that helps. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of frank theriault Sent: 27 September 2007 21:29 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question: how subjective is this standard? Same as all competitions: Very. Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the accepted artists' voting: How many votes are required to be accepted or rejected? What percentage of yes votes is required for acceptance? and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first screening can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel. We don't know who those people are, and what they're looking for. It's all very closed door, which to me makes it something of a crap-shoot. I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them all rejected makes me a better photographer. It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me. Some may find this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't. I mean, hey, no hard feelings. Pentax can run this thing any way they want; it's their contest. However, if this is the way they choose to run it, my choice is to not participate. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Subjective is one thing. Variably subjective is irritating at best. Every photo contest I've ever entered had variable subjectivity IMO Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Scott Loveless [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation frank theriault wrote: I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? And it's a moving target, to boot. You never know who may be voting on your photo at any given time. Subjective is one thing. Variably subjective is irritating at best. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
...after hearing of all the various problems others are having, I doubt if I'll bother to submit anything (and I *still* haven't written a bio). I've got a fair number of images accepted into the Gallery several into the Premiere Gallery. I've handed out my Pentax gallery address to a lot of people the response I get back from most of them is that are really impressed with the overall manner in which the images are presented. I couldn't have done that kind of presentation without having my own web site with its attending costs maintenance. And yes, I'm getting more rejections now than early on. I can also say that I see a lot of images up for voting now that I would never think of submitting. The images I saw posted in the gallery in the beginning are much better than what I see in the voting section now. my $.02 worth. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: John Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 6:09 PM Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Gee thanks. Now how do I get this arrow out of my butt? Ob.Trivia - did you know that archery targets are called 'butts'? Do you know why? As far as the Pentax Gallery goes - I didn't submit originally for a couple of reasons; my first attempt didn't work (because I was trying to submit a scanned image, and there was a bug in their validation code), and I never got round to writing a bio. Now, after hearing of all the various problems others are having, I doubt if I'll bother to submit anything (and I *still* haven't written a bio). On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 10:07:05PM +0100, Bob W wrote: How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow? Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. Hope that helps. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of frank theriault Sent: 27 September 2007 21:29 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question: how subjective is this standard? Same as all competitions: Very. Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the accepted artists' voting: How many votes are required to be accepted or rejected? What percentage of yes votes is required for acceptance? and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first screening can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel. We don't know who those people are, and what they're looking for. It's all very closed door, which to me makes it something of a crap-shoot. I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them all rejected makes me a better photographer. It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me. Some may find this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't. I mean, hey, no hard feelings. Pentax can run this thing any way they want; it's their contest. However, if this is the way they choose to run it, my choice is to not participate. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've got a fair number of images accepted into the Gallery several into the Premiere Gallery. I've handed out my Pentax gallery address to a lot of people the response I get back from most of them is that are really impressed with the overall manner in which the images are presented. It's not bad, but most people love my photos when I show to them. Yippee! :-) However, I'm pretty sure I could show them my rejects or images I don't like and they'd love them just as much. Most non-serious photographers are not looking at an image or a site with a critical eye. Overall I find people to be too easily impressed. I couldn't have done that kind of presentat ion without having my own web site with its attending costs maintenance. And yes, I'm getting more rejections now than early on. I can also say that I see a lot of images up for voting now that I would never think of submitting. The images I saw posted in the gallery in the beginning are much better than what I see in the voting section now. That's what I'd expect. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 9/28/07, frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: crap-shoot. Going off topic. This phrase always brings to mind Mambo t-shirts the artwork of Reg Mombassa. Carry on. Cheers, Dave (I don't think non-Aussies will get the connection) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
..especially kind people. Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've got a fair number of images accepted into the Gallery several into the Premiere Gallery. I've handed out my Pentax gallery address to a lot of people the response I get back from most of them is that are really impressed with the overall manner in which the images are presented. It's not bad, but most people love my photos when I show to them. Yippee! :-) However, I'm pretty sure I could show them my rejects or images I don't like and they'd love them just as much. Most non-serious photographers are not looking at an image or a site with a critical eye. Overall I find people to be too easily impressed. I couldn't have done that kind of presentat ion without having my own web site with its attending costs maintenance. And yes, I'm getting more rejections now than early on. I can also say that I see a lot of images up for voting now that I would never think of submitting. The images I saw posted in the gallery in the beginning are much better than what I see in the voting section now. That's what I'd expect. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
I agree with Mark on this. For all of its faults, the Pentax Gallery has given my photography a bit more focus (pun not intended). I'm not necessarily taking photos specifically aimed at being accepted (because most aren't) but I find I'm taking more care about composition and lighting and looking for other possibilities in a subject that I may have not noticed previously. And I'm a bit more enthusiastic about my photography - and that has to be a good thing... Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ Quoting Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. -- Get a free email address with REAL anti-spam protection. http://www.bluebottle.com/tag/1 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
... especially kind people. Point taken and agreed. That's one of the problems I constantly battle against. I like kind people. :-) 1. I don't want to think my images are good just because I pressed the shutter or because I may have a personal attachment to the subject. 2. On the other hand, just because a preponderance of people seeing the image say they like it, does not make it a good or successful image. Those people could be responding that way because they really like me, or they could be reacting that way because they like the subject matter. There's a fair chance that most people viewing the image couldn't really tell you why they like. 3. Or, I may have a good image that just doesn't strike a chord with most people. That's why I've ranted a little bit in the past on this. Not every image displayed is worthy of praise, yet it seems almost invariably the image is praised... maybe it's kindness, maybe as a mistaken way of encouraging the photographer to keep trying, I don't know. Could be I'm overanalyzing. :-) Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:02:43 -0700 (PDT) ..especially kind people. Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've got a fair number of images accepted into the Gallery several into the Premiere Gallery. I've handed out my Pentax gallery address to a lot of people the response I get back from most of them is that are really impressed with the overall manner in which the images are presented. It's not bad, but most people love my photos when I show to them. Yippee! :-) However, I'm pretty sure I could show them my rejects or images I don't like and they'd love them just as much. Most non-serious photographers are not looking at an image or a site with a critical eye. Overall I find people to be too easily impressed. I couldn't have done that kind of presentat ion without having my own web site with its attending costs maintenance. And yes, I'm getting more rejections now than early on. I can also say that I see a lot of images up for voting now that I would never think of submitting. The images I saw posted in the gallery in the beginning are much better than what I see in the voting section now. That's what I'd expect. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Tom C wrote: 1. I don't want to think my images are good just because I pressed the shutter or because I may have a personal attachment to the subject. 2. On the other hand, just because a preponderance of people seeing the image say they like it, does not make it a good or successful image. Those people could be responding that way because they really like me, or they could be reacting that way because they like the subject matter. There's a fair chance that most people viewing the image couldn't really tell you why they like. 3. Or, I may have a good image that just doesn't strike a chord with most people. If you're talking about image displayed on the PDML, I'd guess that at least some of it is the self selection effect. Basically, people who think well of the image are far more likely to post about it. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
It's not bad, but most people love my photos when I show to them. Yippee! :-) My point is a lot more people are getting to see my images because of the gallery. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've got a fair number of images accepted into the Gallery several into the Premiere Gallery. I've handed out my Pentax gallery address to a lot of people the response I get back from most of them is that are really impressed with the overall manner in which the images are presented. It's not bad, but most people love my photos when I show to them. Yippee! :-) However, I'm pretty sure I could show them my rejects or images I don't like and they'd love them just as much. Most non-serious photographers are not looking at an image or a site with a critical eye. Overall I find people to be too easily impressed. I couldn't have done that kind of presentat ion without having my own web site with its attending costs maintenance. And yes, I'm getting more rejections now than early on. I can also say that I see a lot of images up for voting now that I would never think of submitting. The images I saw posted in the gallery in the beginning are much better than what I see in the voting section now. That's what I'd expect. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
William Robb wrote: I find people too reluctant to label crap as what it is. William Robb Good to have you back, Bill. :) -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: Doug Franklin Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation If you're talking about image displayed on the PDML, I'd guess that at least some of it is the self selection effect. Basically, people who think well of the image are far more likely to post about it. There have been occassions when a dissenting opinion has triggered an outpouring of loathing and abuse at the transgressor, also. There are or have been people on this list who are/were at least passingly familiar with judging pictures who rarely comment(ed) on photos for this reason. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: frank theriault Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You can see what has been accepted can't you? The standard is there to be seen, but you need to learn how, and then be willing to judge your own pictures against those of others. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Actually, I consider I'm just vying for a favorable subjective opinion from da 'judge'. You may get a favourable enough opinion, and still not win the competition, in that if your picture didn't (doesn't) get published in the gallery, and some else's does, then subjectively speaking, the other picture was considered to be the better picture, given the often rather vague subjective criteria that is applied to artistic merit. Shit, I just used the A word. Sorry. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation It's a personal competition, but you're not competing against others. For the accepted image count to be a score, everyone would have to make the same number of submissions. I recall one PDML member saying he was submitting between five and ten shots every day. That obviously will skew the curve. Which is fine, but that's why it's not a mine vs. yours competition. At least that's what I think. And in the end, none of it matters a hoot:-). Bullshit, it just proves some are more equal than others, no matter what the old adage says. Some may consider it very important. As an example, I don't have breeding rights on Jester, so I have nothing to gain by his getting his championship other than bragging rights that I own a peer recognized dog and a warm feeling someplace other than my pants, but I still intend to show him to championship A breeder may have several dogs in a show, this doesn't change that it is a competition. Really, does the gallery differ in principle from this? William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: Bob W Subject: RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow? Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. Bob, that was beautiful. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: Tom C Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Overall I find people to be too easily impressed. I find people too reluctant to label crap as what it is. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Well, Robb, I'm not surprised that it's being viewed as a competition. If one chooses to consider the accepted image count as a 'score' against which one is competing, then it's a competition. Your choice. I think we are on the same side of the fence on this one, Davis. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: Cotty Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation On 27/09/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed: Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. Question: how subjective is this standard? I've judged a few contests. They are pretty damned subjective. You wanna see really subjective judging, start hanging out at dog shows. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Pentax Gallery Resignation
Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation
At the risk of sounding insensitive... you can't resign from an entity you were not a part of. I hope this cheers you up and provides added incentive to continue. ;-) Tom C. From: frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net Subject: Pentax Gallery Resignation Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:54:15 -0400 Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Frank they simply don't understand you the way we do. frank theriault wrote: Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- Remember, it’s pillage then burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
A couple things are working against you here, and neither reflects in a negative way on your photography. One: You waited too long. Based on observation, I'd say the gallery is getting a lot of submissions now and accepting very few. BW street shots seem to be a small minority of the accepted submissions. Take it with a grain of salt. You're an excellent photographer. Paul -- Original message -- From: frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 9/26/07, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At the risk of sounding insensitive... you can't resign from an entity you were not a part of. I hope this cheers you up and provides added incentive to continue. ;-) Actually, I was a part of it in some manner. I could vote on photos, and in fact I was exhorted to do so. It's from that exhortation that I was told that I was an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery. On that basis (so they told me) I could vote. In fact, it was when I read that line I decided to resign. It seems rather paradoxical to call me an accepted artist and then reject every piece of work I submit. Perhaps they should have waited until one of my submissions was accepted before calling me an accepted artist. BTW, I'm not in need of cheering up. I find this whole thing amusing. If by continue you mean continuing submission of photos to The Gallery, that seems rather futile. I'm fine with how things are going photographically these days, so I'll continue shooting, with or without The PENTAX Photo Gallery. ;-) -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Frank, here is what I think: 1. You're an excellent photographer. You really are. 2. You were somewhat late jumping on the Pentax photo gallery train. I for one realize that with the grand amount of submitted photographs my chances to have my work accepted are very small. I was lucky enough to submit some of my photos when there were only few photographs and photographers in the gallery. And some of my work got accepted. Having said that, I think you should really not dwell much in this specific project. I realize it would be cool to be on display on Pentax Gallery, but if you're not there it *really* does not make you any less a photographer than you actually are. Cheer up! Boris frank theriault wrote: Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 9/26/07, Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank, here is what I think: 1. You're an excellent photographer. You really are. 2. You were somewhat late jumping on the Pentax photo gallery train. I for one realize that with the grand amount of submitted photographs my chances to have my work accepted are very small. I was lucky enough to submit some of my photos when there were only few photographs and photographers in the gallery. And some of my work got accepted. Having said that, I think you should really not dwell much in this specific project. I realize it would be cool to be on display on Pentax Gallery, but if you're not there it *really* does not make you any less a photographer than you actually are. Cheer up! No worries, and thanks for the vote of confidence (from everybody, not just you, Boris). In fact, I'm fine with this, and I'm not depressed about being rejected. I've spoken with another list-member who got into the Gallery early, got a photo or two accepted, then got a bunch rejected later on. His theory is that he got in early, when photos were needed and far fewer accepted artists were voting on images. I'm sure that there are several things happening here: As Paul said, there aren't many street photos in the gallery. A few, yes, but not many. (although I did submit several still-lifes, a sports photo and a portrait or three) Also, in the FAQ of the gallery, Pentax suggests that voters consider things such as focus and exposure when assessing photos. Yikes! What chance to I have if one is told to consider such things! ;-) I'm not too worried about this, and I likely wouldn't have made comment at all, except that there were comments made on this list in the past about the whole voting/acceptance procedure, so I thought that I'd throw in my two cents. As for whether I'm a good photographer or not, well let's just say that I have fun at it, I'm happy with the way some shots turn out, get some nice feedback once in a while (from this list and elsewhere), all of which is important to me. Thanks again, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Well, at least you got rejected. I never a peep from them after submitting myself for acceptance. At 12:54 PM -0400 9/26/07, frank theriault wrote: Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Sounds like an internet reality show in the making.:-) Dave On 9/26/07, frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/26/07, Steve Sharpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, at least you got rejected. I never a peep from them after submitting myself for acceptance. So I'm not the biggest loser on the list? ;-) cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 9/26/07, Steve Sharpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, at least you got rejected. I never a peep from them after submitting myself for acceptance. So I'm not the biggest loser on the list? ;-) cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Actually, I was a part of it in some manner. I could vote on photos, and in fact I was exhorted to do so. It's from that exhortation that I was told that I was an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery. On that basis (so they told me) I could vote. In fact, it was when I read that line I decided to resign. It seems rather paradoxical to call me an accepted artist and then reject every piece of work I submit. Perhaps they should have waited until one of my submissions was accepted before calling me an accepted artist. Ironic, n'est pas? Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
As the PDML Turns Last week, Frank decided to discontinue his relationship with the Pentax Gallery. Little did he know that... Tom C. From: David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 14:44:20 -0400 Sounds like an internet reality show in the making.:-) Dave On 9/26/07, frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/26/07, Steve Sharpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, at least you got rejected. I never a peep from them after submitting myself for acceptance. So I'm not the biggest loser on the list? ;-) cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
At 2:36 PM -0400 9/26/07, frank theriault wrote: On 9/26/07, Steve Sharpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, at least you got rejected. I never a peep from them after submitting myself for acceptance. So I'm not the biggest loser on the list? Apparently not. :^( -- Steve Sharpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://earth.delith.com/photo_gallery.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Right on Frankie, cool, join the club. I resigned my position on Monday. Feels good... Norm frank theriault wrote: Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 9/26/07, Steve Sharpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I'm not the biggest loser on the list? Apparently not. :^( Clearly a plot against Canadians! ;-) cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
...Tom had a mole in place to decline Frank's work due of abject jealousy. Ahhh, but Frank had a plan... Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As the PDML Turns Last week, Frank decided to discontinue his relationship with the Pentax Gallery. Little did he know that... Tom C. From: David J Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 14:44:20 -0400 Sounds like an internet reality show in the making.:-) Dave On 9/26/07, frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/26/07, Steve Sharpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, at least you got rejected. I never a peep from them after submitting myself for acceptance. So I'm not the biggest loser on the list? ;-) cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545433 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Tom C wrote: As the PDML Turns Last week, Frank decided to discontinue his relationship with the Pentax Gallery. Little did he know that... ...Dave had just accepted a job with an escort service. Meanwhile, on the other side of the world there are more strange goings-on as the eBay sale of a Pentax endoscope goes awry and... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
At 3:38 PM -0400 9/26/07, frank theriault wrote: On 9/26/07, Steve Sharpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I'm not the biggest loser on the list? Apparently not. :^( Clearly a plot against Canadians! By Gosh, you're right! I'll bet the neocons have taken over Pentax! Hoya is just a front! -- Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 26/09/07, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed: so I'll continue shooting, with or without The PENTAX Photo Gallery. Hey Frank. Welcome to my life :-) I entered a photographic competition once. It was the first and last time. Absolutely never again. I only ever make pics for one person: me. If someone else likes them, too bad ;-) I suspect you are the same. I raise a glass to you sir. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Frank, didn't you read the fine print? In Title 9, section 4, paragraph 110, Item b) : No work shall be accepted from the class Lepus and all its associated species and subspecies. =:) On 9/26/07, frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation
I sent the club a wire stating, PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER. Groucho Marx From: frank theriault Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
frank theriault wrote: Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault Good for you, Frank! keith -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Oops that should have been family Leporidae. I'm not sure whether Frank is a Rabbit or a Hare. On 9/26/07, Gonz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank, didn't you read the fine print? In Title 9, section 4, paragraph 110, Item b) : No work shall be accepted from the class Lepus and all its associated species and subspecies. =:) On 9/26/07, frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
At 01:42 AM 27/09/2007, frank theriault wrote: On 9/26/07, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At the risk of sounding insensitive... you can't resign from an entity you were not a part of. I hope this cheers you up and provides added incentive to continue. ;-) Actually, I was a part of it in some manner. I could vote on photos, and in fact I was exhorted to do so. It's from that exhortation that I was told that I was an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery. On that basis (so they told me) I could vote. They accept that you are an artist. They don't accept that your work is art ;-) F$k'em Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Gonz wrote: Oops that should have been family Leporidae. I'm not sure whether Frank is a Rabbit or a Hare. wabbit ann On 9/26/07, Gonz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank, didn't you read the fine print? In Title 9, section 4, paragraph 110, Item b) : No work shall be accepted from the class Lepus and all its associated species and subspecies. =:) On 9/26/07, frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Ewmew_Fuddheaheaheaheahea/ewmew_fudd ann sanfedele wrote: Gonz wrote: Oops that should have been family Leporidae. I'm not sure whether Frank is a Rabbit or a Hare. wabbit ann On 9/26/07, Gonz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank, didn't you read the fine print? In Title 9, section 4, paragraph 110, Item b) : No work shall be accepted from the class Lepus and all its associated species and subspecies. =:) On 9/26/07, frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Remember, it’s pillage then burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Strange. I really thought that you were rather competitive person, Cotty. I am fairly competitive, but in photography I don't feel any desire to prove anything. So I don't really participate in competitions... Boris Cotty wrote: On 26/09/07, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed: so I'll continue shooting, with or without The PENTAX Photo Gallery. Hey Frank. Welcome to my life :-) I entered a photographic competition once. It was the first and last time. Absolutely never again. I only ever make pics for one person: me. If someone else likes them, too bad ;-) I suspect you are the same. I raise a glass to you sir. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Pentax Gallery
Very, VERY true. I have watched this in a number of situations - applies in commentary and in notice given. Rod -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of graywolf Welcome to the Camera Club, Frank. If your photos don't look like everyone else's photos you do not know how to take pictures... delete for bandwidth -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
On 13/09/07, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed: How about Jackson Pollock's paintings? Now you're getting nasty!!! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
Art criticism is not art, and does not define art. It merely judges it. G On Sep 13, 2007, at 7:32 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: That's why the test of time is critical. Works that are appreciated and applauded over the centuries earn the right to be called art. Nothing current can rightfully claim that title until generations have arrived at a consensus opinion. Almost all serious art critics would agree. One can express an opinion of recent works, but one can never be certain. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
On Sep 14, 2007, at 12:49 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Sep 13, 2007, at 7:27 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: The question you posed is indeed What is a good picture? a sibling to What is art? ... We haven't had this debate in at least a month. It's time... :o) that, and does a good subject make a good picture? Good pictures come in all shapes and sizes. Sometimes it's the compositon that makes a shot memorable. But a fascinating subject can achieve that as well. And of course sheer beauty is always worth a second look. In truth, there is no single, narrow definition. What is sheer beauty? It is, of course, in the eye of the beholder. The logic of your statement is that there is no definition of art, or beauty, that is not entirely subjective. Is that qualitative judgment, in the eye of the beholder, a product of nature or nurture? There are many definitions of art, and all of them are in some way subjective. But there can be a consensus. ... Your choices are far too limiting. It's a product of many things: environment, experience, nature, nurture and more. It's quite simple really. If it's pleasing to the eye, it's beautiful. To one individual, that makes it personal art. If the consensus of opinion finds it beautiful, it can be said to be art. But that is still somewhat subjective. Because we are unique individuals, the subjectivity of these kinds of judgments can never be eliminated completely. However, over time, the consensus can become very broad and far reaching. Consensus does not change whether something is subjective or objective. Words mean certain things due to a consensus on their meaning, not because a given symbol or utterance has an a priori meaning. Your choices are far too limiting. It's a product of many things: environment, experience, nature, nurture and more. The shorthand of nurture or nature means is it something a part of the animal (genetics, physiology, atomic structure, what have you) or a learned behavior (which includes experience, environment, teaching, etc). There are no other choices to these two classes of kind other than possibly the supernatural, which we have yet to see a proof of existence for. It's quite simple really. If it's pleasing to the eye, it's beautiful. To one individual, that makes it personal art. If the consensus of opinion finds it beautiful, it can be said to be art. But that is still somewhat subjective. Because we are unique individuals, the subjectivity of these kinds of judgments can never be eliminated completely. However, over time, the consensus can become very broad and far reaching. Your statement presumes that pleasing equals beautiful, that things considered beautiful are art, and that a consensus of opinion on the beauty of something defines it as art. By your definition, everything can be art, because nearly everything can be pleasing to someone's eye. There is plenty of work out there that is considered art which is not considered beautiful or pleasing to the eye, from virtually every major recognized artist. That would seem to make your definition insubstantial. How do you account for this conflict between consensus of art and your definition of same? I said no such thing. You're cherry picking. Go back to my original post. No, I disagree. All your posts are in sequence above. I said that there is no single path to successful photography. You said that good pictures come in all shapes and sizes, and in addition: ... And of course sheer beauty is always worth a second look. ... I asked What is sheer beauty? Your response was a circular, subjective support of beauty being something that you know either by yourself or by consensus with others, and then you went on to assert that pleasing equals beautiful, which makes it personal art, and agreement on what is beautiful by consensus also defines something as art. I assert that there is work created by recognized artists and considered by consensus not to be beautiful which is considered art. And that this is in contradiction to your definition. The paths to great photography are unlimited. That is why it's impossible to develop rules or precise measurements. In regard to subjectivity, nearly all critics of artistic pursuits — whether the genre be painting, music, literature or even that fledging art known as photography — agree that consensus -- or the test of time -- is a valid measure of artistic merit. It's a basic tenet of criticism in all the arts. It's you who went down the path of defining art as representing something recognized as beauty, not I, and deviated from the original question of what makes a great picture when you tossed in that notion of recognizing sheer beauty. How do you define sheer beauty and why is it special? What is the criteria by which it is recognized? Why does art have to be beautiful? Are you asserting that art is ONLY
Re: Pentax Gallery
On Sep 14, 2007, at 12:49 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Sep 13, 2007, at 7:27 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: The question you posed is indeed What is a good picture? a sibling to What is art? ... We haven't had this debate in at least a month. It's time... :o) that, and does a good subject make a good picture? Good pictures come in all shapes and sizes. Sometimes it's the compositon that makes a shot memorable. But a fascinating subject can achieve that as well. And of course sheer beauty is always worth a second look. In truth, there is no single, narrow definition. What is sheer beauty? It is, of course, in the eye of the beholder. The logic of your statement is that there is no definition of art, or beauty, that is not entirely subjective. Is that qualitative judgment, in the eye of the beholder, a product of nature or nurture? There are many definitions of art, and all of them are in some way subjective. But there can be a consensus. ... Your choices are far too limiting. It's a product of many things: environment, experience, nature, nurture and more. It's quite simple really. If it's pleasing to the eye, it's beautiful. To one individual, that makes it personal art. If the consensus of opinion finds it beautiful, it can be said to be art. But that is still somewhat subjective. Because we are unique individuals, the subjectivity of these kinds of judgments can never be eliminated completely. However, over time, the consensus can become very broad and far reaching. Consensus does not change whether something is subjective or objective. Words mean certain things due to a consensus on their meaning, not because a given symbol or utterance has an a priori meaning. Your choices are far too limiting. It's a product of many things: environment, experience, nature, nurture and more. The shorthand of nurture or nature means is it something a part of the animal (genetics, physiology, atomic structure, what have you) or a learned behavior (which includes experience, environment, teaching, etc). There are no other choices to these two classes of kind other than possibly the supernatural, which we have yet to see a proof of existence for. It's quite simple really. If it's pleasing to the eye, it's beautiful. To one individual, that makes it personal art. If the consensus of opinion finds it beautiful, it can be said to be art. But that is still somewhat subjective. Because we are unique individuals, the subjectivity of these kinds of judgments can never be eliminated completely. However, over time, the consensus can become very broad and far reaching. Your statement presumes that pleasing equals beautiful, that things considered beautiful are art, and that a consensus of opinion on the beauty of something defines it as art. By your definition, everything can be art, because nearly everything can be pleasing to someone's eye. There is plenty of work out there that is considered art which is not considered beautiful or pleasing to the eye, from virtually every major recognized artist. That would seem to make your definition insubstantial. How do you account for this conflict between consensus of art and your definition of same? I said no such thing. You're cherry picking. Go back to my original post. No, I disagree. All your posts are in sequence above. I said that there is no single path to successful photography. You said that good pictures come in all shapes and sizes, and in addition: ... And of course sheer beauty is always worth a second look. ... Exactly. I didn't say beauty defines art. I said something beautiful is worth looking at.. I asked What is sheer beauty? Your response was a circular, subjective support of beauty being something that you know either by yourself or by consensus with others, and then you went on to assert that pleasing equals beautiful, which makes it personal art, and agreement on what is beautiful by consensus also defines something as art. I said something that is beautiful CAN be art, just as a great composition CAN be art. A consensus that something is beautiful doesn't make it art. A consensus, over time, that something is artful, however, is a certain indication of aesthetic value. You are again cherry picking. I assert that there is work created by recognized artists and considered by consensus not to be beautiful which is considered art. And that this is in contradiction to your definition. I never said that art has to be beautiful, only that the beautiful can be art. Two different things. Go back and read more carefully. The paths to great photography are unlimited. That is why it's impossible to develop rules or precise measurements. In regard to subjectivity, nearly all critics of artistic pursuits — whether the genre be painting, music, literature or even that fledging art known as photography — agree that consensus -- or the
Re: Pentax Gallery
P. J. Alling wrote: Much modern art is a scam, just so much crap, Very true. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
On Sep 14, 2007, at 3:06 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote: Exactly. I didn't say beauty defines art. I said something beautiful is worth looking at.. But you still haven't suggested what allows you to recognize what is beautiful. I said something that is beautiful CAN be art, just as a great composition CAN be art. A consensus that something is beautiful doesn't make it art. A consensus, over time, that something is artful, however, is a certain indication of aesthetic value. You are again cherry picking. Cherry picking, no. I'm trying to have a discussion and looking for a criteria that allows on to separate what is art vs what is not. Sorry if you think that is difficult, but I haven't found it in your statement yet. I never said that art has to be beautiful, only that the beautiful can be art. Two different things. Go back and read more carefully. That's a useful distinction. No. You suggested I said that. I never did. But of course you have to win every discussion. We all know that. So it's pointless to go on and on with you. Let's not go down the path of a personal insult. I thought we were having an interesting discussion. There is nothing to win here. I posit that: 1: Art is intentional and has affect. 2: Great photographs capture a likeness, are executed with technical expertise, express emotion, or convey information. 3: There are many great photographs in the world. Most of them are not art, but some are. How they differ is in how they are conceived and how they exhibit affect or influence the viewer. 4: Likewise there is much great art in the world. Most of it is not photographs, but some is. Of that subset of art which is photographs, many are not great photographs by the definition above, but that they are art can be discerned on the basis of their intent and affect. There's enough obfuscation in your definition to make it bullet proof. So be it. I though the notions I posed were fairly simply stated and reasonably clear, a set of notions to explore. What is about them is obfuscation? what do you take issue with? Again, there's nothing here to win. I'm enjoying the discussion of something other than how many lines of resolution a particular sensor might have, or whether it would be more sensible to buy a Nikon or Canon over a Pentax. The definition of art and great photographs are elusive and complex things, worthy of discussion. What in my positing are you uncomfortable with? Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
An expressed mutual respect for points made will always facilitate a stimulating discussion. An apparent disregard or correcting exchange will only last 'til someone feels they have won. Jack --- Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 14, 2007, at 3:06 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote: Exactly. I didn't say beauty defines art. I said something beautiful is worth looking at.. But you still haven't suggested what allows you to recognize what is beautiful. I said something that is beautiful CAN be art, just as a great composition CAN be art. A consensus that something is beautiful doesn't make it art. A consensus, over time, that something is artful, however, is a certain indication of aesthetic value. You are again cherry picking. Cherry picking, no. I'm trying to have a discussion and looking for a criteria that allows on to separate what is art vs what is not. Sorry if you think that is difficult, but I haven't found it in your statement yet. I never said that art has to be beautiful, only that the beautiful can be art. Two different things. Go back and read more carefully. That's a useful distinction. No. You suggested I said that. I never did. But of course you have to win every discussion. We all know that. So it's pointless to go on and on with you. Let's not go down the path of a personal insult. I thought we were having an interesting discussion. There is nothing to win here. I posit that: 1: Art is intentional and has affect. 2: Great photographs capture a likeness, are executed with technical expertise, express emotion, or convey information. 3: There are many great photographs in the world. Most of them are not art, but some are. How they differ is in how they are conceived and how they exhibit affect or influence the viewer. 4: Likewise there is much great art in the world. Most of it is not photographs, but some is. Of that subset of art which is photographs, many are not great photographs by the definition above, but that they are art can be discerned on the basis of their intent and affect. There's enough obfuscation in your definition to make it bullet proof. So be it. I though the notions I posed were fairly simply stated and reasonably clear, a set of notions to explore. What is about them is obfuscation? what do you take issue with? Again, there's nothing here to win. I'm enjoying the discussion of something other than how many lines of resolution a particular sensor might have, or whether it would be more sensible to buy a Nikon or Canon over a Pentax. The definition of art and great photographs are elusive and complex things, worthy of discussion. What in my positing are you uncomfortable with? Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
Now that's a classic. Mark! Tom C. From: Digital Image Studio [EMAIL PROTECTED] If it has a frame around it. I say a dog shit with a frame around it is still a dog shit. -- Rob Studdert -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
Of course it can concurrently be art and a dog shit but practically I'd tend towards labeling it the latter if that's what it is. -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Honestly. I have two dogs which make some very nice pieces of work. If anyone here want's some of this doggy art let me know. I'll take some pictures so you can see what your getting. I accept Paypal and I'll even frame it for you, if desired. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
Now, Rob, you know that if it is well composed, properly lit, and shot with Velvia it is ART. But crappy ART, of course. chuckle Digital Image Studio wrote: On 14/09/2007, Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I say is art, IS art. If it has a frame around it. I say a dog shit with a frame around it is still a dog shit. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
Well if you want to be anal bout it. On 9/13/07, Digital Image Studio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 14/09/2007, Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I say is art, IS art. If it has a frame around it. I say a dog shit with a frame around it is still a dog shit. -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://picasaweb.google.com/distudio/PESO http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
Well if it makes you feel better Frank, if HCB would be here today submitting photos to them, I dont think any of *his* would have been accepted either On 9/13/07, frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To those who've complained that not all of your photos have been accepted in the Pentax Gallery, quit yer bitchin'! Not one of mine has been accepted so far. Not a single one. I've still got about 6 pending, but 6 have been rejected outright. Street shots, still lifes, sports shots (Corner Kick, fer gawd's sake - and if I'm allowed a moment of immodesty, that was a muther of a photo!), portraits. None of it good enough. I no longer hold great hope for my participation in this venture. I kind of feel like not submitting any more. If the 6 that I have pending are rejected, I guess I'll know that I don't measure up to their standards (whatever they may be), and find another place to show my piccies... cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
Are you going to start that shit again! From: Gonz Well if you want to be anal bout it. On 9/13/07, Digital Image Studio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 14/09/2007, Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I say is art, IS art. If it has a frame around it. I say a dog shit with a frame around it is still a dog shit. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Pentax Gallery
To those who've complained that not all of your photos have been accepted in the Pentax Gallery, quit yer bitchin'! Not one of mine has been accepted so far. Not a single one. I've still got about 6 pending, but 6 have been rejected outright. Street shots, still lifes, sports shots (Corner Kick, fer gawd's sake - and if I'm allowed a moment of immodesty, that was a muther of a photo!), portraits. None of it good enough. I no longer hold great hope for my participation in this venture. I kind of feel like not submitting any more. If the 6 that I have pending are rejected, I guess I'll know that I don't measure up to their standards (whatever they may be), and find another place to show my piccies... cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
frank theriault wrote: To those who've complained that not all of your photos have been accepted in the Pentax Gallery, quit yer bitchin'! Not one of mine has been accepted so far. Not a single one. I've still got about 6 pending, but 6 have been rejected outright. Street shots, still lifes, sports shots (Corner Kick, fer gawd's sake - and if I'm allowed a moment of immodesty, that was a muther of a photo!), portraits. None of it good enough. I no longer hold great hope for my participation in this venture. I kind of feel like not submitting any more. If the 6 that I have pending are rejected, I guess I'll know that I don't measure up to their standards (whatever they may be), and find another place to show my piccies... cheers, frank I guess I got started early(ish) with the Pentax gallery. I submitted three photos and had one accepted. When they started the peer review process I deleted my photo and politely requested they remove my account. Considering the concerns recently on the list about this system, I have no regrets. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
Frank, that's because they don't understand the Theraultian ethos, they're aiming for punchy eye candy, not muddy thought provoking existentialism. frank theriault wrote: To those who've complained that not all of your photos have been accepted in the Pentax Gallery, quit yer bitchin'! Not one of mine has been accepted so far. Not a single one. I've still got about 6 pending, but 6 have been rejected outright. Street shots, still lifes, sports shots (Corner Kick, fer gawd's sake - and if I'm allowed a moment of immodesty, that was a muther of a photo!), portraits. None of it good enough. I no longer hold great hope for my participation in this venture. I kind of feel like not submitting any more. If the 6 that I have pending are rejected, I guess I'll know that I don't measure up to their standards (whatever they may be), and find another place to show my piccies... cheers, frank -- Remember, it’s pillage then burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
I haven't even submitted any of mine. I doubt they'd accept the ones I like and those I think they'd accept I'm not to sure I'd want there. I guess I'm agree with Groucho Marx, I wouldn't join a club that would have me as a member. frank theriault wrote: To those who've complained that not all of your photos have been accepted in the Pentax Gallery, quit yer bitchin'! Not one of mine has been accepted so far. Not a single one. I've still got about 6 pending, but 6 have been rejected outright. Street shots, still lifes, sports shots (Corner Kick, fer gawd's sake - and if I'm allowed a moment of immodesty, that was a muther of a photo!), portraits. None of it good enough. I no longer hold great hope for my participation in this venture. I kind of feel like not submitting any more. If the 6 that I have pending are rejected, I guess I'll know that I don't measure up to their standards (whatever they may be), and find another place to show my piccies... cheers, frank -- Remember, it’s pillage then burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
Welcome to the Camera Club, Frank. If your photos don't look like everyone else's photos you do not know how to take pictures... frank theriault wrote: To those who've complained that not all of your photos have been accepted in the Pentax Gallery, quit yer bitchin'! Not one of mine has been accepted so far. Not a single one. I've still got about 6 pending, but 6 have been rejected outright. Street shots, still lifes, sports shots (Corner Kick, fer gawd's sake - and if I'm allowed a moment of immodesty, that was a muther of a photo!), portraits. None of it good enough. I no longer hold great hope for my participation in this venture. I kind of feel like not submitting any more. If the 6 that I have pending are rejected, I guess I'll know that I don't measure up to their standards (whatever they may be), and find another place to show my piccies... cheers, frank -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
A lot of the pictures on there seem like crisp snapshots of pretty things rather than good photographs. Anyone can take a well focused picture of something pretty, but is it really worthy? I don't know. Perhaps we're just back to the art discussion. rg2 On 9/13/07, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Welcome to the Camera Club, Frank. If your photos don't look like everyone else's photos you do not know how to take pictures... frank theriault wrote: To those who've complained that not all of your photos have been accepted in the Pentax Gallery, quit yer bitchin'! Not one of mine has been accepted so far. Not a single one. I've still got about 6 pending, but 6 have been rejected outright. Street shots, still lifes, sports shots (Corner Kick, fer gawd's sake - and if I'm allowed a moment of immodesty, that was a muther of a photo!), portraits. None of it good enough. I no longer hold great hope for my participation in this venture. I kind of feel like not submitting any more. If the 6 that I have pending are rejected, I guess I'll know that I don't measure up to their standards (whatever they may be), and find another place to show my piccies... cheers, frank -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- the subject of a photograph is far less important than its composition -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
You need to study the compositional aspects of many of those pictures. Sometime it takes more than a quick glance. What looks like a snapshot may only look like that because you don't know what work went into the composition. Anybody can take a picture of a leaf laying on a dirty sidewalk also. There's millions of leaves laying on dirty sidewalks all over the USA and other parts of the world. Taking a picture of one of them does not make it art. The fact is people like beautiful photographs of beautiful places because beauty is almost universally appreciated. Tom C. From: Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:25:33 -0400 A lot of the pictures on there seem like crisp snapshots of pretty things rather than good photographs. Anyone can take a well focused picture of something pretty, but is it really worthy? I don't know. Perhaps we're just back to the art discussion. rg2 On 9/13/07, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Welcome to the Camera Club, Frank. If your photos don't look like everyone else's photos you do not know how to take pictures... frank theriault wrote: To those who've complained that not all of your photos have been accepted in the Pentax Gallery, quit yer bitchin'! Not one of mine has been accepted so far. Not a single one. I've still got about 6 pending, but 6 have been rejected outright. Street shots, still lifes, sports shots (Corner Kick, fer gawd's sake - and if I'm allowed a moment of immodesty, that was a muther of a photo!), portraits. None of it good enough. I no longer hold great hope for my participation in this venture. I kind of feel like not submitting any more. If the 6 that I have pending are rejected, I guess I'll know that I don't measure up to their standards (whatever they may be), and find another place to show my piccies... cheers, frank -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- the subject of a photograph is far less important than its composition -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
You need to study the compositional aspects of many of those pictures. the lack of composition was my point rg2 On 9/13/07, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You need to study the compositional aspects of many of those pictures. Sometime it takes more than a quick glance. What looks like a snapshot may only look like that because you don't know what work went into the composition. Anybody can take a picture of a leaf laying on a dirty sidewalk also. There's millions of leaves laying on dirty sidewalks all over the USA and other parts of the world. Taking a picture of one of them does not make it art. The fact is people like beautiful photographs of beautiful places because beauty is almost universally appreciated. Tom C. From: Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:25:33 -0400 A lot of the pictures on there seem like crisp snapshots of pretty things rather than good photographs. Anyone can take a well focused picture of something pretty, but is it really worthy? I don't know. Perhaps we're just back to the art discussion. rg2 On 9/13/07, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Welcome to the Camera Club, Frank. If your photos don't look like everyone else's photos you do not know how to take pictures... frank theriault wrote: To those who've complained that not all of your photos have been accepted in the Pentax Gallery, quit yer bitchin'! Not one of mine has been accepted so far. Not a single one. I've still got about 6 pending, but 6 have been rejected outright. Street shots, still lifes, sports shots (Corner Kick, fer gawd's sake - and if I'm allowed a moment of immodesty, that was a muther of a photo!), portraits. None of it good enough. I no longer hold great hope for my participation in this venture. I kind of feel like not submitting any more. If the 6 that I have pending are rejected, I guess I'll know that I don't measure up to their standards (whatever they may be), and find another place to show my piccies... cheers, frank -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- the subject of a photograph is far less important than its composition -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- the subject of a photograph is far less important than its composition -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery
The question you posed is indeed What is a good picture? a sibling to What is art? ... Let the debate commence (again) ! Godfrey On Sep 13, 2007, at 11:39 AM, Rebekah wrote: You need to study the compositional aspects of many of those pictures. the lack of composition was my point On 9/13/07, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You need to study the compositional aspects of many of those pictures. Sometime it takes more than a quick glance. What looks like a snapshot may only look like that because you don't know what work went into the composition. Anybody can take a picture of a leaf laying on a dirty sidewalk also. There's millions of leaves laying on dirty sidewalks all over the USA and other parts of the world. Taking a picture of one of them does not make it art. The fact is people like beautiful photographs of beautiful places because beauty is almost universally appreciated. Tom C. From: Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] A lot of the pictures on there seem like crisp snapshots of pretty things rather than good photographs. Anyone can take a well focused picture of something pretty, but is it really worthy? I don't know. Perhaps we're just back to the art discussion. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
