[talk-ph] edits around Buenavista, Marinduque
Just found out today, that Buenavista in Marinduque is getting some love. http://osm.org/go/4yzegLrS- mostly made by user: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Ubacher http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3732907 -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM front page design concept
On Sun, 21 Feb 2010, SteveC wrote: I've posted a design concept with description and invitation for feedback here: http://opengeodata.org/new-design-concept-for-openstreetmaporg Yours c. Steve I was saddened to see infighting on the blog comments. I haven't seen nor heard of a front page reinvention committee. I see some things are better with less white space. I'd like to see a better map key as one thing cartographers whine about is the apparent lack of a map key. Today was the first day I ever found it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
One idea is to leverage IRC power, by having an international channel, where any language is permitted. And people can respond live translate, and people can get their answer. Having this IRC weblink directly on the feedback box will help a great deal. Many have abandoned this talk@ list because IRC is more efficient. (kind of like twitter, but the useful version) and it could be better with more languages permitted. Imo, Sam On 2/20/10, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: On Feb 20, 2010, at 11:20 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, SteveC wrote: Wrong. Map bugs. Did you read my post Fred ? :-) So you meant to integrate uservoice.com instead of integrating openstreetbugs? But can their system tie notes to map locations? Well I'll go further. openstreetbugs is basically there but has a crappy UI. It needs to be 1) click 'feedback' or 'problem' 2) enter problem 3) click ok the extra step of clicking where the problem is should not happen, we should get that from the bbox or center point plus zoom. So with some changes I think we can integrate OSB and expose it front and center to help fix up the bugs. I think in an environment where every other map on the planet is trying to hide their bugs, we should expose ours and fix them quickly while showing everyone what they got wrong. As for your comments about people entering bugs and feature requests we can't handle... look. I understand it's a case of matching requests to people who can be bothered to do them. And I understand that people here today can't be bothered to fix most of the things that are wrong in OSM because we're all happy to work around them... but it's bonkers to be dismissive about 'granny' because it's all those grannies out there who are going to help us fix this map. If I think about all the people who can help today in OSM, I immediately think of my brothers and sister, my parents and so on... and the only way is if we go through a big complicated loop with walking papers. A bug system like the above should be where we're headed. It will make so many more people help us, and we will be able to fix so many more things. So as for features and software bugs... I think we should turn up the volume of the people who want things changed. One, we might learn something about what the users actually want (because trac is a poor, poor reflection) and two... look we should be the first people to welcome input on what people think we should do. We can't all hide in our basement and hack on Java any more. We have to help these people who are crying out for it. I'll add two more things 1) Using google insight (bing for it) and many other tools it's very very clear that the german community is by far and away huge. That's wonderful, but we don't have Germans all over Europe and the US - we need these tools out here Frederik to help us fix the map. 2) We have to be very clear that the openstreetmap.org website is _awful_. Horrendous. A total PITA. We're all here because we're persistent with it. But the wonderful thing is - we don't have to make the tools and site easy to use if we can expose a simple bug system. It's very clear that nobody can convince Richard to actually write something any muggle would really want to use, you can scream at him to finish the mythical Potlatch 2 all you want, but he doesn't give a shit and lives on a boat in bliss. That's his choice, and it's totally fine, but if we all feel that way then we have to deal with the downside that every single day we lose tens of thousands of edits because of that monopoly on bad UI. All I'm suggesting is we sidestep the problem and connect people who can report a map bug but can't be bothered to deal with pain and suffering of potlatch with the people who can deal with it, at least until Richard gets his act together and stops fixing every stupid thing in the old codebase. You have to take a step back here and realise what we're missing out on. Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blog: http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans OpenStreetMap IRC: http://irc.openstreetmap.org @Acrosscanadatrails ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
openstreetbugs is basically there but has a crappy UI. It needs to be 1) click 'feedback' or 'problem' 2) enter problem 3) click ok ok and then? who will pick it up and fix it? look at openstreetbugs and most could be closed right away. the feedback from most people is useless. a comment footways are missing in this park doesn't help much if there is no experienced mapper willing to survey. And someone able to write a detailed and useful description will be able to Potlatch* in the same time the extra step of clicking where the problem is should not happen, we should get that from the bbox or center point plus zoom. So with some changes I think we can integrate OSB and expose it front and center to help fix up the bugs. I think in an environment where every other map on the planet is trying to hide their bugs, we should expose ours and fix them quickly while showing everyone what they got wrong. As for your comments about people entering bugs and feature requests we can't handle... look. I understand it's a case of matching requests to people who can be bothered to do them. And I understand that people here today can't be bothered to fix most of the things that are wrong in OSM because we're all happy to work around them... but it's bonkers to be dismissive about 'granny' because it's all those grannies out there who are going to help us fix this map. the grannies are useless unless you sit down with them and talk to them finally and do the entry yourself. If I think about all the people who can help today in OSM, I immediately think of my brothers and sister, my parents and so on... and the only way is if we go through a big complicated loop with walking papers. A bug system like the above should be where we're headed. It will make so many more people help us, and we will be able to fix so many more things. something like walking papers is what non geeks understand because they know paper maps. or to repeat you have to sit down with them So as for features and software bugs... I think we should turn up the volume of the people who want things changed. One, we might learn something about what the users actually want (because trac is a poor, poor reflection) and two... look we should be the first people to welcome input on what people think we should do. We can't all hide in our basement and hack on Java any more. We have to help these people who are crying out for it. I'll add two more things 1) Using google insight (bing for it) and many other tools it's very very clear that the german community is by far and away huge. That's wonderful, but we don't have Germans all over Europe and the US - we need these tools out here Frederik to help us fix the map. without the German's you won't get a better map. back to footways are missing in this park it's sitting in openstreetbugs for many months (or years?) openstreetbugs or keepright are the perfect tools for German's with a large community look at US. even a 5+ mio area like the bay area has probably less than 100 active mappers. they can and will do cooler and more rewarding things first. 2) We have to be very clear that the openstreetmap.org website is _awful_. Horrendous. A total PITA. We're all here because we're persistent with it. But the wonderful thing is - we don't have to make the tools and site easy to use if we can expose a simple bug system. It's very clear that nobody can convince Richard to actually write something any muggle would really want to use, you can scream at him to finish the mythical Potlatch 2 all you want, but he doesn't give a shit and lives on a boat in bliss. That's his choice, and it's totally fine, but if we all feel that way then we have to deal with the downside that every single day we lose tens of thousands of edits because of that monopoly on bad UI. All I'm suggesting is we sidestep the problem and connect people who can report a map bug but can't be bothered to deal with pain and suffering of potlatch with the people who can deal with it, at least until Richard gets his act together and stops fixing every stupid thing in the old codebase. You have to take a step back here and realise what we're missing out on. Yours c. Steve ___ dev mailing list d...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On 21/02/10 07:16, SteveC wrote: On Feb 20, 2010, at 11:13 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: SteveC wrote: http://opengeodata.org/new-design-concept-for-openstreetmaporg Whatever merits the (external, commercial) uservoice.com service might have, I am extremely sceptical about using it for openstreetmap.org. Join companies organisations of all sizes that already depend on UserVoice for feedback (Sun, Nokia, Random House, Sony BMG, Myspace.com). I don't envisage OSM being like these in any way. Our problem is not that granny doesn't find the feedback button; if we have a problem then it is that we do not have the time and patience to deal with her suggestions. Wrong. Map bugs. Did you read my post Fred ? :-) As I believe I said last night, it was entirely unclear to me if you were only talking about using that for map bugs or for other bugs as well. So I'm not surprised Fred misunderstood as well. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On 21/02/10 07:38, SteveC wrote: On Feb 20, 2010, at 11:20 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: SteveC wrote: Wrong. Map bugs. Did you read my post Fred ? :-) So you meant to integrate uservoice.com instead of integrating openstreetbugs? But can their system tie notes to map locations? Well I'll go further. openstreetbugs is basically there but has a crappy UI. It needs to be 1) click 'feedback' or 'problem' 2) enter problem 3) click ok the extra step of clicking where the problem is should not happen, we should get that from the bbox or center point plus zoom. So with some changes I think we can integrate OSB and expose it front and center to help fix up the bugs. I have been trying for several years now to get somebody to do a properly integrated version of openstreetbugs and obviously things like defaulting based on the current map view would be a perfectly sensible thing for such a tool to do. Like Fred I'm really not sure about using an external site like this in much the same way that I've resisted integrating an external tool like openstreetbugs into the main site. I will go and have a look at uservoice now though, assuming that it's back up... Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On 01/-10/-28163 08:59 PM, SteveC wrote: On Feb 20, 2010, at 11:20 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: ... openstreetbugs is basically there but has a crappy UI. It needs to be Fixing openstreetbugs crappy ui and integrating it into the main page seems like the better way to go in this case rather than replace it with a system that is not designed nor good at handling spacial suggestions. 1) click 'feedback' or 'problem' 2) enter problem 3) click ok the extra step of clicking where the problem is should not happen, we should get that from the bbox or center point plus zoom. So with some changes I think we can integrate OSB and expose it front and center to help fix up the bugs. Are you suggesting that it is a bad idea to specify a location of a map bug? Ok, so I will zoom into central london and tell you there is a turn restriction missing. How is anyone supposed to help fix this without the detailed location information? Even google with their report a problem link lets you place a marker to highlight where the problem actually is. And perhaps the UI of the bug reporting should say at the top something like Hey, you can report a map problem here, no problem, but even better would be if you click on the edit button and actually fix it your self. But if you feel uncomfortable to do that, just report it here and perhaps eventually someone else like you might come and fix it ... I'll add two more things 1) Using google insight (bing for it) and many other tools it's very very clear that the german community is by far and away huge. That's wonderful, but we don't have Germans all over Europe and the US - we need these tools out here Frederik to help us fix the map. 2) We have to be very clear that the openstreetmap.org website is _awful_.Horrendous. A total PITA. Actually, I am not that clear on why it is all that _awful_. I kind of like the design (of the main page). Yes, it has its issues and there are a few things I would like to see to improve the usability, that are better in your design. (The more prominent search bar, now that we have the technical capabilities to support larger use of search and the inclusion of some Quality Assurance tools) But most of those could be added incrementally too. We're all here because we're persistent with it. But the wonderful thing is - we don't have to make the tools and site easy to use if we can expose a simple bug system. Yes, a simple bug system can help. In particular in those regions that are already complete, are in maintanace mode and have sufficient established mappers that are actually looking for things to do. But in all other cases, which unfortunately at the moment are probably still the majority, just reporting problems won't actually get them fixed. It's very clear that nobody can convince Richard to actually write something any muggle would really want to use, you can scream at him to finish the mythical Potlatch 2 all you want, but he doesn't give a shit and lives on a boat in bliss. I don't think this comment is fair, as Richard is doing a wonderful job, especially as a one man volunteer. But I will leave it at that. That's his choice, and it's totally fine, but if we all feel that way then we have to deal with the downside that every single day we lose tens of thousands of edits because of that monopoly on bad UI. All I'm suggesting is we sidestep the problem and connect people who can report a map bug but can't be bothered to deal with pain and suffering of potlatch with the people who can deal with it, at least until Richard gets his act together and stops fixing every stupid thing in the old codebase. You have to take a step back here and realise what we're missing out on. I think what we are (partly) missing out on here is people technically capable on actually implementing any of those suggestions and also some people who are technically skilled enough to realize what is feasible for volunteers to achieve and what not and are willing to work closely with the implementers to get the UI user friendly. People just throwing ideas over the wall, can occasionally be useful, but I don't think that is our main problem. Although the general attitude of Open source programmers of Oh the code is that way, so go and fix it your self is not always helpful either. Kai Yoursc. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM front page design concept
On 21/02/10 07:38, SteveC wrote: 2) We have to be very clear that the openstreetmap.org website is _awful_. Horrendous. A total PITA. We're all here because we're persistent with it. But the wonderful thing is - we don't have to make the tools and site easy to use if we can expose a simple bug system. It's very clear that nobody can convince Richard to actually write something any muggle would really want to use, you can scream at him to finish the mythical Potlatch 2 all you want, but he doesn't give a shit and lives on a boat in bliss. That's his choice, and it's totally fine, but if we all feel that way then we have to deal with the downside that every single day we lose tens of thousands of edits because of that monopoly on bad UI. All I'm suggesting is we sidestep the problem and connect people who can report a map bug but can't be bothered to deal with pain and suffering of potlatch with the people who can deal with it, at least until Richard gets his act together and stops fixing every stupid thing in the old codebase. You have to take a step back here and realise what we're missing out on. Oh for crying out loud Steve, do you have to be such a complete shit all the time? I honestly wouldn't blame Richard if he deleted all his code and walked off into the sunset and we never saw him again after that pointless little diatribe. I do help it made you feel better. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Photo_mapping - How to put EXIF data into a jpg image
Hi, I use a 'distribution based on Debian Lenny', 'Ubuntu Karmic 9.10' and 'a distribution based on Ubuntu Jaunty 9.04'. When I photo map I take some photos which I later synchronise with a GPS trace, to know with the most precision where I had taken the photos. I would like to put the lat long data right into the JPEG images though. I don't know how to use gpsbabel or any other program to integrate the lat lon in the EXIF part of the photos. I can use the commandline if it is required or if there are a few simple commands. Maybe a command could be: exiv2 -a 01:02:03 ad *.jpg I don't have trouble writing them one by one, if I know the command to use. I've seen Seth Golub's geocoding scripts, but there was no documentation so I didn't understand what to do with the scripts. Does anyone know of a command of exiv2 to take the location from a gps trace file (gpx) and put it inside the EXIF part of a jpg image? My purpose would be to later upload the photos with the EXIF data into them to a photo service, which I later link to from a source tag for various data in openstreetmap. I'm looking forward to replies, Niklas -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Inquiry about Egnos / Indoor mapping
Yes, EGNOS is live, free, reliable, and all of that. Coverage are limited to Europe (similarly WAAS is available in the US, and I think also Canada and Northern Mexico) and a similar system in Japan (don't remember name). EGNOS require clear view of the sky in the same way that the GPS needs, meaning that it will give no aid when the receiver is indoor. EGNOS does not provide positions to the algorithm, it provides corrections of the GPS satelites in order to enhance the algorithm in the unti. This often results in 50% better accuracy (or something like that) than the raw GPS position. There are a few other services that does the same, with more coverage. Most common is IALA, also live, free and reliable. IALA corrections can be activated on some GPS receivers, specially those advertised as dGPS units. The coverage of IALA is focused on the coasts as it aims on the maritime industry. How much it enhances the accuracy depends on the distance to the station. There are a serie of commercial services as well, but they usually need special hardware and expencive licenses to utilize. From my work place we use Spotbeam and Inmarsat (supplied from Fugro, these are the same signal, sent via different satelites), HP/XP (also Fugro, but a different signal), Veripos (transmitted by Veripos), IALA (free), SBAS (common name for WAAS/EGNOS/all other related systems), GPS464/GPS465 (Corrections transmitted by UHF link, generally used by Petrobras, very short range). Where I live and do ground survey for OSM there are no SBAS coverage (neither EGNOS nor WAAS), but hope that a similar system will be opened also here. I would also like to upgrade my GPS unit to one that can take both IALA and SBAS corrections and handles maps. (Current unit have SBAS corrections, no IALA, and no maps:( ) On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 3:47 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 21 February 2010 09:50, Martijn van Exel mve...@gmail.com wrote: - Is anybody working on Indoor maps AND would like to talk to me about it. I will do a paper for theWhereBusiness news letter on that. ( I know some of the volunteers are working on it and it would be great to ask them how they do it) http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2009-November/017814.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Photo_mapping - How to put EXIF data into a jpg image
Niklas Cholmkvist wrote: When I photo map I take some photos which I later synchronise with a GPS trace, to know with the most precision where I had taken the photos. I would like to put the lat long data right into the JPEG images though. There are plenty of tools to do this: * gpscorrelate - a command line tool, where you specify the gpx file, the images and (optionally) a time offset * prune - graphical tool that can be used to display gpx in front of osm map background and edit the gpx file. It supports geoimage features, as well. * photo_geotagging - a plugin for josm that does just that. See what you like best! __ Sebastian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
Hi, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: ok and then? who will pick it up and fix it? look at openstreetbugs and most could be closed right away. the feedback from most people is useless. a comment footways are missing in this park doesn't help much if there is no experienced mapper willing to survey. While I am all in favour of enticing more people to lend their local knowledge to improve OSM (and I believe there is a *lot* we can harness), I must say that Apollinaris has a point here. Commentary on OSM from people who do not have a basic understanding of it tends to be worthless. It is not worthless all the time, but very often so. That's because if people cannot be made to understand that there is something like data behind the map, and the map will always show a selection of what's there, they are bound to mix up the following: * data missing * wrong data * things left out on purpose on a specific zoom level * properties of an object that have been mapped but are not shown * things that have not been mapped because nobody is interested * ... Now we can either adopt a free-for-all approach where we encourage everyone to leave their feedback without spending 10 seconds on understanding how this map is generated, and then have a lot of work in post-processing (explaining to people that if they only had zoomed in further, the restaurant they were looking for would've been shown etc.) - or we can crowd-source this work by trying to educate those who wish to help, at the possible cost of turning away those with too small attention spans or too little technical aptitude. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On 21 February 2010 21:35, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Now we can either adopt a free-for-all approach where we encourage everyone to leave their feedback without spending 10 seconds on understanding how this map is generated, and then have a lot of work in post-processing (explaining to people that if they only had zoomed in further, the restaurant they were looking for would've been shown etc.) - or we can crowd-source this work by trying to educate those who wish to help, at the possible cost of turning away those with too small attention spans or too little technical aptitude. Or we can try a third approach and find some middle ground between the two. This might be restricting the types of information they can enter, it might try to match near by POIs and see if something similar matches etc. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
SteveC wrote: 2) We have to be very clear that the openstreetmap.org website is _awful_. Horrendous. A total PITA. We're all here because we're persistent with it. But the wonderful thing is - we don't have to make the tools and site easy to use if we can expose a simple bug system. It's very clear that nobody can convince Richard to actually write something any muggle would really want to use, you can scream at him to finish the mythical Potlatch 2 all you want, but he doesn't give a shit and lives on a boat in bliss. That's his choice, and it's totally fine, but if we all feel that way then we have to deal with the downside that every single day we lose tens of thousands of edits because of that monopoly on bad UI. All I'm suggesting is we sidestep the problem and connect people who can report a map bug but can't be bothered to deal with pain and suffering of potlatch with the people who can deal with it, at least until Richard gets his act together and stops fixing every stupid thing in the old codebase. You have to take a step back here and realise what we're missing out on. I really think you've lost the plot here Steve. You dreamed up a *really* good idea in OSM, but why do you want to piss off some of the people who have done the most to make it happen? Chris ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Photo_mapping - How to put EXIF data into a jpg image
I would like to put the lat long data right into the JPEG images though. I don't know how to use gpsbabel or any other program to integrate the lat lon in the EXIF part of the photos. I can use the commandline if it is required or if there are a few simple commands. Maybe a command could be: exiv2 -a 01:02:03 ad *.jpg Install exiftool; it more or less will do what you want, with a time offset and writing exif geo tags from a gpx. From the man page: The Geosync tag may be used to specify a time correction which is applied to each Geotime value for synchronization with GPS time. For example, the following command compensates for image times which are 1 minute and 20 seconds behind GPS: exiftool -geosync=+1:20 -geotag a.log DIR pgpUGaYtVEJpO.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Annotated Haiti video
Hi All, I watched the OSM animation [1] showing edit activity a few days before and a couple of weeks after the earthquake. It's great ! However, I think some sort of factual annotations (voice or maybe superimposed images ?) would be very helpful to convey how useful the edits were. What I mean by factual annotations is anything that would explain the white flashes. I know there aren't such big flashes as the ones I saw on another animation (a year of edits 200? showing India flashing and a few US states) but there are some noticeable ones. It could be just flashing the number of nodes/ways/whatever added/edited. Or it could be adding the name of NGO's or organizations that either contributed data (for a specific flash ?) or benefited from it by loading it on their GPS units. Maybe some free floating and moving div with a tag cloud containing organization names ? I am asking this for a very selfish purpose : I was asked to do a short presentation of OSM at a meeting and I'd love being able to tell the audience what use the data was. The video definitely shows how responsive the OSM community was with respect to the earthquake. I'd like to go further and link some of the data editing activities with its usefulness in the field. Cheers, Yves Moisan [1] http://www.vimeo.com/9182869 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On Sun, 21 Feb 2010, SteveC wrote: ... It's very clear that nobody can convince Richard to actually write something any muggle would really want to use, you can scream at him to finish the mythical Potlatch 2 all you want, but he doesn't give a shit and lives on a boat in bliss. That's his choice, and it's totally fine, but if we all feel that way then we have to deal with the downside that every single day we lose tens of thousands of edits because of that monopoly on bad UI. All I'm suggesting is we sidestep the problem and connect people who can report a map bug but can't be bothered to deal with pain and suffering of potlatch with the people who can deal with it, at least until Richard gets his act together and stops fixing every stupid thing in the old codebase. ... This comment is so completely over the top that for me at least it completely invalidates anything else that SteveC might say. Potlatch is an excellent tool for many users, myself included. It has been improving steadily, and in my experience Richard Fairhurst is very thoughtful and receptive. I hope that OSM developers will forgive my butting in here - I'm just a mapper, but with perhaps enough software-development experience to appreciate Richard. - Robert ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM2PQSQL / PostGis: Coordinate Conversion
Hi, I am working on this as well. However, for testing I am using a point that lies in the German city of Wiesbaden-Naurod. This city has the geocoordinates 8.301388 / 50.13472. When I transform it by SELECT astext(ST_Transform(ST_SetSRID(ST_MakePoint(8.301388,50.13472), 4326), 900913)) I get the value POINT(924106.285037392 6469639.74359406), which pretty much is the same as the value in my PostGIS-DB (that was fed from OSM): 646985238;92409686 (considering multiplication by 100). However, the other way round, with SELECT astext(ST_Transform(ST_SetSRID(ST_MakePoint(92409686/100,646985238/100), 900913), 4326))) I get the strange result POINT(1.30152356525693e-06 7.86059348425535e-06) instead of somethin with 8.3* and 50.1*. Any idea, why this could be? -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/OSM2PQSQL-PostGis-Coordinate-Conversion-tp4367010p4598704.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM2PQSQL / PostGis: Coordinate Conversion
On Fri, 2010-02-19 at 08:19 -0800, d8930 wrote: Hi, I am working on this as well. However, for testing I am using a point that lies in the German city of Wiesbaden-Naurod. This city has the geocoordinates 8.301388 / 50.13472. When I transform it by SELECT astext(ST_Transform(ST_SetSRID(ST_MakePoint(8.301388,50.13472), 4326), 900913)) I get the value POINT(924106.285037392 6469639.74359406), which pretty much is the same as the value in my PostGIS-DB (that was fed from OSM): 646985238;92409686 (considering multiplication by 100). However, the other way round, with SELECT astext(ST_Transform(ST_SetSRID(ST_MakePoint(92409686/100,646985238/100), 900913), 4326))) I get the strange result POINT(1.30152356525693e-06 7.86059348425535e-06) instead of somethin with 8.3* and 50.1*. Any idea, why this could be? It works for me, though there was an extra ) in what you quoted. gis= select astext(ST_Transform(ST_SetSRID(ST_MakePoint(92409686/100,646985238/100),900913), 4326)); astext - POINT(8.30129560793713 50.135942170124) (1 row) You will get slightly better accuracy if you divide by 100.0 to force the result to be calculated as a float: gis= select astext(ST_Transform(ST_SetSRID(ST_MakePoint(92409686/100.0,646985238/100.0),900913), 4326)); astext - POINT(8.3013044857 50.135944358132) (1 row) Jon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
Sam Vekemans wrote: Many have abandoned this talk@ list because IRC is more efficient. Only if you want to talk to people either in your own time zone or are night workers. Talk@ communicates ideas with all people all over the globe. Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
Apollinaris Schoell wrote: ok and then? who will pick it up and fix it? look at openstreetbugs and most could be closed right away. the feedback from most people is useless. a comment footways are missing in this park doesn't help much if there is no experienced mapper willing to survey. And someone able to write a detailed and useful description will be able to Potlatch* in the same time +1 Streetbugs encourages people to 'get others to do it' when OSM should be encouraging them to 'do it yourself' Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
SteveC wrote: Well I'll go further. openstreetbugs is basically there but has a crappy UI. It needs to be 1) click 'feedback' or 'problem' 2) enter problem 3) click ok the extra step of clicking where the problem is should not happen, we should get that from the bbox or center point plus zoom. So with some changes I think we can integrate OSB and expose it front and center to help fix up the bugs. How is zooming all the way in repeatedly panning around to centre up, quicker than one click to _accurately_ locate the problem? 2) We have to be very clear that the openstreetmap.org website is _awful_. Horrendous. A total PITA. We're all here because we're persistent with it. But the wonderful thing is - we don't have to make the tools and site easy to use if we can expose a simple bug system. It's very clear that nobody can convince Richard to actually write something any muggle would really want to use, you can scream at him to finish the mythical Potlatch 2 all you want, but he doesn't give a shit and lives on a boat in bliss. That's his choice, and it's totally fine, but if we all feel that way then we have to deal with the downside that every single day we lose tens of thousands of edits because of that monopoly on bad UI. All I'm suggesting is we sidestep the problem and connect people who can report a map bug but can't be bothered to deal with pain and suffering of potlatch with the people who can deal with it, at least until Richard gets his act together and stops fixing every stupid thing in the old codebase. You have to take a step back here and realise what we're missing out on. You really are a grade A tosser. When most people here treat others with respect, why do you have to degenerate it into a juvenile, Youtube style slanging match? What do you think Granny's reaction will be when she reads this? Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On 22 February 2010 01:37, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: Streetbugs encourages people to 'get others to do it' when OSM should be encouraging them to 'do it yourself' While it'd be nice if people would fix any problems themselves, I don't think OSM's website is at the point where some granny can just quickly/easily sign up and tweak a few things, there is simply too many alien concepts for most people to grasp quickly and easily. Find some random non-technical family member and try and explain it to them some time. In the mean time if they can quickly explain the problem people could explain to the person reporting it how to fix it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On Feb 21, 2010, at 12:55 AM, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: openstreetbugs is basically there but has a crappy UI. It needs to be 1) click 'feedback' or 'problem' 2) enter problem 3) click ok ok and then? who will pick it up and fix it? I will. look at openstreetbugs and most could be closed right away. the feedback from most people is useless. a comment footways are missing in this park doesn't help much if there is no experienced mapper willing to survey. And someone able to write a detailed and useful description will be able to Potlatch* in the same time I don't think that's the issue - I think that most people aren't aware of OSB or keepright etc because they're not front ant center. the extra step of clicking where the problem is should not happen, we should get that from the bbox or center point plus zoom. So with some changes I think we can integrate OSB and expose it front and center to help fix up the bugs. I think in an environment where every other map on the planet is trying to hide their bugs, we should expose ours and fix them quickly while showing everyone what they got wrong. As for your comments about people entering bugs and feature requests we can't handle... look. I understand it's a case of matching requests to people who can be bothered to do them. And I understand that people here today can't be bothered to fix most of the things that are wrong in OSM because we're all happy to work around them... but it's bonkers to be dismissive about 'granny' because it's all those grannies out there who are going to help us fix this map. the grannies are useless unless you sit down with them and talk to them finally and do the entry yourself. I'm trying to make the point that a simple OSB -like interface means you don't have to. If I think about all the people who can help today in OSM, I immediately think of my brothers and sister, my parents and so on... and the only way is if we go through a big complicated loop with walking papers. A bug system like the above should be where we're headed. It will make so many more people help us, and we will be able to fix so many more things. something like walking papers is what non geeks understand because they know paper maps. or to repeat you have to sit down with them Right... but OSB is even simpler because you don't have to print it out etc. So as for features and software bugs... I think we should turn up the volume of the people who want things changed. One, we might learn something about what the users actually want (because trac is a poor, poor reflection) and two... look we should be the first people to welcome input on what people think we should do. We can't all hide in our basement and hack on Java any more. We have to help these people who are crying out for it. I'll add two more things 1) Using google insight (bing for it) and many other tools it's very very clear that the german community is by far and away huge. That's wonderful, but we don't have Germans all over Europe and the US - we need these tools out here Frederik to help us fix the map. without the German's you won't get a better map. back to footways are missing in this park it's sitting in openstreetbugs for many months (or years?) openstreetbugs or keepright are the perfect tools for German's with a large community look at US. even a 5+ mio area like the bay area has probably less than 100 active mappers. they can and will do cooler and more rewarding things first. Sure. In Germany you have this amazing community where there's a stamptish around every corner. But out here it's much harder and we need these easier tools to build the map. Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On Feb 21, 2010, at 1:05 AM, Tom Hughes wrote: On 21/02/10 07:16, SteveC wrote: On Feb 20, 2010, at 11:13 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: SteveC wrote: http://opengeodata.org/new-design-concept-for-openstreetmaporg Whatever merits the (external, commercial) uservoice.com service might have, I am extremely sceptical about using it for openstreetmap.org. Join companies organisations of all sizes that already depend on UserVoice for feedback (Sun, Nokia, Random House, Sony BMG, Myspace.com). I don't envisage OSM being like these in any way. Our problem is not that granny doesn't find the feedback button; if we have a problem then it is that we do not have the time and patience to deal with her suggestions. Wrong. Map bugs. Did you read my post Fred ? :-) As I believe I said last night, it was entirely unclear to me if you were only talking about using that for map bugs or for other bugs as well. So I'm not surprised Fred misunderstood as well. I spent three paragraphs in my post on OGD about it, I think it's entirely open ended. I know lots of people hate companies that make money and so on, but, I thought putting a feedback tab would be a good straw man. I didn't think we'd all hate feedback so much. Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On Feb 21, 2010, at 1:08 AM, Tom Hughes wrote: On 21/02/10 07:38, SteveC wrote: On Feb 20, 2010, at 11:20 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: SteveC wrote: Wrong. Map bugs. Did you read my post Fred ? :-) So you meant to integrate uservoice.com instead of integrating openstreetbugs? But can their system tie notes to map locations? Well I'll go further. openstreetbugs is basically there but has a crappy UI. It needs to be 1) click 'feedback' or 'problem' 2) enter problem 3) click ok the extra step of clicking where the problem is should not happen, we should get that from the bbox or center point plus zoom. So with some changes I think we can integrate OSB and expose it front and center to help fix up the bugs. I have been trying for several years now to get somebody to do a properly integrated version of openstreetbugs and obviously things like defaulting based on the current map view would be a perfectly sensible thing for such a tool to do. Go to oDesk.com and pay someone to do it? That's what I did. I think the community is great at many things, but for those you spend years on not convincing anybody, you can just pay them. Like Fred I'm really not sure about using an external site like this in much the same way that I've resisted integrating an external tool like openstreetbugs into the main site. I will go and have a look at uservoice now though, assuming that it's back up... I don't care if it's uservoice or whatever. The thing about uservoice is though that it's working today and they have free plans for open source projects. If there's a better solution, lets use it. Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
John Smith wrote: On 22 February 2010 01:37, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: Streetbugs encourages people to 'get others to do it' when OSM should be encouraging them to 'do it yourself' While it'd be nice if people would fix any problems themselves, I don't think OSM's website is at the point where some granny can just quickly/easily sign up and tweak a few things, there is simply too many alien concepts for most people to grasp quickly and easily. Find some random non-technical family member and try and explain it to them some time. Yes, I fully understand the problems, but I think that, in principle, OSM should be encouraging community participation. Streetbugs, as it stands, doesn't do this. In the mean time if they can quickly explain the problem people could explain to the person reporting it how to fix it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
As there are two sorts of problems - 'easy fix' ones (There is a bank here, This road is Clifton Road, not Clifton Avenue etc.) and the 'hard' ones (this road is also part of NCN Route 17 or there is a road missing here), maybe we need two solutions? OpenStreetBugs is pretty good for the harder ones, but I think we should encourage casual users to fix the easy ones. This would mean providing a simple editor with a very limited feature set, that concentrates on being easy to use (probably following Microsoft UI style of single click, double click, right click etc. to make it intuitive for most users). I have seen a javascript application to allow users to add POIs (can't remember the web address though) - I would suggest that we work up a specification for what a non technical user would need to be able to work on these simple things and look at producing something similar under the 'Edit' tab, with an 'Advanced' option that opens Potlatch. Thoughts? Graham. On 21 February 2010 16:04, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 22 February 2010 01:37, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: Streetbugs encourages people to 'get others to do it' when OSM should be encouraging them to 'do it yourself' While it'd be nice if people would fix any problems themselves, I don't think OSM's website is at the point where some granny can just quickly/easily sign up and tweak a few things, there is simply too many alien concepts for most people to grasp quickly and easily. Find some random non-technical family member and try and explain it to them some time. In the mean time if they can quickly explain the problem people could explain to the person reporting it how to fix it. ___ dev mailing list d...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On Feb 21, 2010, at 1:15 AM, Kai Krueger wrote: the extra step of clicking where the problem is should not happen, we should get that from the bbox or center point plus zoom. So with some changes I think we can integrate OSB and expose it front and center to help fix up the bugs. Are you suggesting that it is a bad idea to specify a location of a map bug? Ok, so I will zoom into central london and tell you there is a turn restriction missing. How is anyone supposed to help fix this without the detailed location information? Even google with their report a problem link lets you place a marker to highlight where the problem actually is. And perhaps the UI of the bug reporting should say at the top something like Hey, you can report a map problem here, no problem, but even better would be if you click on the edit button and actually fix it your self. But if you feel uncomfortable to do that, just report it here and perhaps eventually someone else like you might come and fix it I like the latter, reporting the *exact* location as a extra feature. I think you'll get more bugs if you allow people to type descriptively the location rather than force a click on the location. It seems simple to all of us, but it isn't to the vast majority of people. ... I'll add two more things 1) Using google insight (bing for it) and many other tools it's very very clear that the german community is by far and away huge. That's wonderful, but we don't have Germans all over Europe and the US - we need these tools out here Frederik to help us fix the map. 2) We have to be very clear that the openstreetmap.org website is _awful_.Horrendous. A total PITA. Actually, I am not that clear on why it is all that _awful_. I kind of like the design (of the main page). Yes, it has its issues and there are a few things I would like to see to improve the usability, that are better in your design. (The more prominent search bar, now that we have the technical capabilities to support larger use of search and the inclusion of some Quality Assurance tools) But most of those could be added incrementally too. It's the number one complaint I hear when I fly all over the world talking to people about OSM. Bad design, hard to learn editor tools (just go and look at Google/Waze stuff for comparison) and then the dreaded when will you guys get your act together and change license... We're all here because we're persistent with it. But the wonderful thing is - we don't have to make the tools and site easy to use if we can expose a simple bug system. Yes, a simple bug system can help. In particular in those regions that are already complete, are in maintanace mode and have sufficient established mappers that are actually looking for things to do. But in all other cases, which unfortunately at the moment are probably still the majority, just reporting problems won't actually get them fixed. It's very clear that nobody can convince Richard to actually write something any muggle would really want to use, you can scream at him to finish the mythical Potlatch 2 all you want, but he doesn't give a shit and lives on a boat in bliss. I don't think this comment is fair, as Richard is doing a wonderful job, especially as a one man volunteer. But I will leave it at that. I'm sorry I disagree. I think it's great Richard volunteers of course, and puts all the effort in, but it has to be said that that effort would be 100x more useful in finishing potlatch 2 than more time on potlatch 1. I think what we are (partly) missing out on here is people technically capable on actually implementing any of those suggestions and also some people who are technically skilled enough to realize what is feasible for volunteers to achieve and what not and are willing to work closely with the implementers to get the UI user friendly. People just throwing ideas over the wall, can occasionally be useful, but I don't think that is our main problem. Although the general attitude of Open source programmers of Oh the code is that way, so go and fix it your self is not always helpful either. That's exactly it - and why I made that point on the OGD post. Some projects have a 'design dictator' because nobody can ever agree web design issues. That's a bit harsh but it's one way to do it. Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On Feb 21, 2010, at 4:54 AM, Robert Funnell wrote: On Sun, 21 Feb 2010, SteveC wrote: ... It's very clear that nobody can convince Richard to actually write something any muggle would really want to use, you can scream at him to finish the mythical Potlatch 2 all you want, but he doesn't give a shit and lives on a boat in bliss. That's his choice, and it's totally fine, but if we all feel that way then we have to deal with the downside that every single day we lose tens of thousands of edits because of that monopoly on bad UI. All I'm suggesting is we sidestep the problem and connect people who can report a map bug but can't be bothered to deal with pain and suffering of potlatch with the people who can deal with it, at least until Richard gets his act together and stops fixing every stupid thing in the old codebase. ... This comment is so completely over the top that for me at least it completely invalidates anything else that SteveC might say. Potlatch is an excellent tool for many users, myself included. It mostly works for me too, but we have a lot of patience. If you look at the bigger picture beyond us though it's very hard to use and there's a much better codebase waiting in the wings. It doesn't look like that will be finished. Now, you can dance around that and talk about how receptive Richard is: It has been improving steadily, and in my experience Richard Fairhurst is very thoughtful and receptive. And that's fine, and he is thoughtful... but at the end of the day that doesn't make PL any easier to use. The simple fact is that PL2 needs to get finished and PL1 needs to be put in to an end-of-life freeze. I don't see that happening, but I do see hundreds of frustrated people at conferences (like I did yesterday) who give up on it when really we should be welcoming them. So I'd prefer not to pretend there isn't a problem, there is, it's big, and we should try to do something about it. Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On Feb 21, 2010, at 8:03 AM, Dave F. wrote: How is zooming all the way in repeatedly panning around to centre up, quicker than one click to _accurately_ locate the problem? Hi, you've never done a UI review. http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/UX_and_Usability_Study Money quote: Every user in this study struggled to get a basic grasp of the editing interface. Despite users’ overall excitement about Wikipedia, their willingness to spend up to an hour on the site, and varying levels of computer expertise, they largely failed to make edits correctly without repeated attempts and efforts. It would be worse for OSM. Ir shouldn't be. 2) We have to be very clear that the openstreetmap.org website is _awful_. Horrendous. A total PITA. We're all here because we're persistent with it. But the wonderful thing is - we don't have to make the tools and site easy to use if we can expose a simple bug system. It's very clear that nobody can convince Richard to actually write something any muggle would really want to use, you can scream at him to finish the mythical Potlatch 2 all you want, but he doesn't give a shit and lives on a boat in bliss. That's his choice, and it's totally fine, but if we all feel that way then we have to deal with the downside that every single day we lose tens of thousands of edits because of that monopoly on bad UI. All I'm suggesting is we sidestep the problem and connect people who can report a map bug but can't be bothered to deal with pain and suffering of potlatch with the people who can deal with it, at least until Richard gets his act together and stops fixing every stupid thing in the old codebase. You have to take a step back here and realise what we're missing out on. You really are a grade A tosser. When most people here treat others with respect, why do you have to degenerate it into a juvenile, Youtube style slanging match? What do you think Granny's reaction will be when she reads this? Sorry, do you disagree with any specific point I made? Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On Feb 21, 2010, at 3:49 AM, Chris Hill wrote: SteveC wrote: 2) We have to be very clear that the openstreetmap.org website is _awful_. Horrendous. A total PITA. We're all here because we're persistent with it. But the wonderful thing is - we don't have to make the tools and site easy to use if we can expose a simple bug system. It's very clear that nobody can convince Richard to actually write something any muggle would really want to use, you can scream at him to finish the mythical Potlatch 2 all you want, but he doesn't give a shit and lives on a boat in bliss. That's his choice, and it's totally fine, but if we all feel that way then we have to deal with the downside that every single day we lose tens of thousands of edits because of that monopoly on bad UI. All I'm suggesting is we sidestep the problem and connect people who can report a map bug but can't be bothered to deal with pain and suffering of potlatch with the people who can deal with it, at least until Richard gets his act together and stops fixing every stupid thing in the old codebase. You have to take a step back here and realise what we're missing out on. I really think you've lost the plot here Steve. You dreamed up a *really* good idea in OSM, but why do you want to piss off some of the people who have done the most to make it happen? Fair point, I shouldn't have been that harsh and I apologise Richard, but I don't dissent from the basic points I'm making. Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 66, Issue 47
I'm not sure whether this will do what you need - but I think it will. Take a look at Exifer at: http://www.friedemann-schmidt.com/software/exifer/ The program is no longer maintained but I find it works fine for the things I need. It has the advantage of being very simple, low overhead ... and free. The link page also gives the author's ideas of alternatives that he considers better - so plenty to research from there. Have fun 8-) 8-) Mike Harris On 21/02/2010 13:28, talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: Send talk mailing list submissions to talk@openstreetmap.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org You can reach the person managing the list at talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of talk digest... Today's Topics: 1. Photo_mapping - How to put EXIF data into a jpg image (Niklas Cholmkvist) 2. Re: Inquiry about Egnos / Indoor mapping (Aun Johnsen) 3. Re: Photo_mapping - How to put EXIF data into a jpg image (Sebastian Klein) 4. Re: [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept (Frederik Ramm) 5. Re: [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept (John Smith) 6. Re: [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept (Chris Hill) 7. Re: Photo_mapping - How to put EXIF data into a jpg image (Greg Troxel) 8. Re: OSM2PQSQL / PostGis: Coordinate Conversion (d8930) 9. Annotated Haiti video (Yves Moisan) 10. Re: [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept (Robert Funnell) 11. Re: OSM2PQSQL / PostGis: Coordinate Conversion (Jon Burgess) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- */Mike Harris/* ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
SteveC wrote: On Feb 21, 2010, at 8:03 AM, Dave F. wrote: How is zooming all the way in repeatedly panning around to centre up, quicker than one click to _accurately_ locate the problem? Hi, you've never done a UI review. http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/UX_and_Usability_Study Money quote: Every user in this study struggled to get a basic grasp of the editing interface. Despite users’ overall excitement about Wikipedia, their willingness to spend up to an hour on the site, and varying levels of computer expertise, they largely failed to make edits correctly without repeated attempts and efforts. It would be worse for OSM. Ir shouldn't be. What proof do you have for that? You're comparing oranges with apples. With OSM being vector graphics icons, it's much easier to get to grips with than a scripting language. (As a side point, I think all references to XML format data should be banned from the wiki. It's too confusing not relevant for newbies.) Initial points after skimming your link: 15 is not a big enough set for accurate conclusions. Even worse it was vetted down, removing users who were willing editors. This gives a distorted view on how user friendly it is. And they were just from SF. Environment plays a big part in opinion surveys like this. Going on the photo' for the remote sessions it's results are hardly surprising - uncomfortable seats, broom cupboard room (I bet it got hot in there) poor posture positions. Most OSM users will learn at their own pace in the comfort of their own homes. I got to grips with OSM fairly quickly, yet I've still not worked out how to edit a wiki properly. 2) We have to be very clear that the openstreetmap.org website is _awful_. Horrendous. A total PITA. We're all here because we're persistent with it. But the wonderful thing is - we don't have to make the tools and site easy to use if we can expose a simple bug system. It's very clear that nobody can convince Richard to actually write something any muggle would really want to use, you can scream at him to finish the mythical Potlatch 2 all you want, but he doesn't give a shit and lives on a boat in bliss. That's his choice, and it's totally fine, but if we all feel that way then we have to deal with the downside that every single day we lose tens of thousands of edits because of that monopoly on bad UI. All I'm suggesting is we sidestep the problem and connect people who can report a map bug but can't be bothered to deal with pain and suffering of potlatch with the people who can deal with it, at least until Richard gets his act together and stops fixing every stupid thing in the old codebase. You have to take a step back here and realise what we're missing out on. You really are a grade A tosser. When most people here treat others with respect, why do you have to degenerate it into a juvenile, Youtube style slanging match? What do you think Granny's reaction will be when she reads this? Sorry, And so you should be. do you disagree with any specific point I made? I disagree with you general attitude. Regards Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On Feb 21, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Dave F. wrote: Hi, you've never done a UI review. http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/UX_and_Usability_Study Money quote: Every user in this study struggled to get a basic grasp of the editing interface. Despite users’ overall excitement about Wikipedia, their willingness to spend up to an hour on the site, and varying levels of computer expertise, they largely failed to make edits correctly without repeated attempts and efforts. It would be worse for OSM. Ir shouldn't be. What proof do you have for that? Oh, please. do you disagree with any specific point I made? I disagree with you general attitude. Yawn. Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
SteveC wrote: Oh, please... ...Yawn. That kind of sums you up. Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On Feb 21, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Dave F. wrote: SteveC wrote: Oh, please... ...Yawn. That kind of sums you up. /me prods the troll Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
Anyone on the outside seeing this won't be inspired to learn to fix any errors people are trying to get fixed... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
SteveC wrote: On Feb 21, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Dave F. wrote: SteveC wrote: Oh, please... ...Yawn. That kind of sums you up. /me prods the troll I'm a troll because I disagree with you? You're weird. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Planet, osm2pgsql interruptus, and reclaiming disk space
Hi, I have a problem with osm2pgsql and postgres, I hope someone can point me in the right direction for a fix. I started up a whole-planet osm2pgsql import session from a recent planet dump. While that was going on, the computer had to be rebooted and the process was interrupted. Now I have no data tables (okay) and a few dozen GB less disk space (not okay). I tried to vacuum full the planet_osm database, but didn't reclaim any space. Where does storage go when osm2pgsql is rudely interrupted like that? Temp files? A core dump somewhere? Any advice much appreciated. -mike. michal migurski- m...@stamen.com 415.558.1610 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Planet, osm2pgsql interruptus, and reclaiming disk space
On Sun, 2010-02-21 at 10:12 -0800, Michal Migurski wrote: Hi, I have a problem with osm2pgsql and postgres, I hope someone can point me in the right direction for a fix. I started up a whole-planet osm2pgsql import session from a recent planet dump. While that was going on, the computer had to be rebooted and the process was interrupted. Now I have no data tables (okay) and a few dozen GB less disk space (not okay). I tried to vacuum full the planet_osm database, but didn't reclaim any space. Where does storage go when osm2pgsql is rudely interrupted like that? Temp files? A core dump somewhere? Any advice much appreciated. osm2pgsql only stores data in PostgreSQL. I imagine that the extra disk space is in use in the postgres DB directory. I should get cleared and re-used if you begin the import again. Otherwise you should be able to reclaim it immediately by dropping the database. Jon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
I live in a place where I feel the need to map some streets as areas. If I start a little of such mapping, will routing software get confused? Regards, Niklas -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On Feb 21, 2010, at 9:56 AM, Dave F. wrote: SteveC wrote: On Feb 21, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Dave F. wrote: SteveC wrote: Oh, please... ...Yawn. That kind of sums you up. /me prods the troll I'm a troll because I disagree with you? No, because you live under a bridge with your forest friends You're weird. Thanks! :-) Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 16:36, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: ... It's very clear that nobody can convince Richard to actually write something any muggle would really want to use, you can scream at him to finish the mythical Potlatch 2 all you want, but he doesn't give a shit and lives on a boat in bliss. That's his choice, and it's totally fine, but if we all feel that way then we have to deal with the downside that every single day we lose tens of thousands of edits because of that monopoly on bad UI. All I'm suggesting is we sidestep the problem and connect people who can report a map bug but can't be bothered to deal with pain and suffering of potlatch with the people who can deal with it, at least until Richard gets his act together and stops fixing every stupid thing in the old codebase. ... This comment is so completely over the top that for me at least it completely invalidates anything else that SteveC might say. Potlatch is an excellent tool for many users, myself included. It mostly works for me too, but we have a lot of patience. If you look at the bigger picture beyond us though it's very hard to use and there's a much better codebase waiting in the wings. It doesn't look like that will be finished. Now, you can dance around that and talk about how receptive Richard is: It has been improving steadily, and in my experience Richard Fairhurst is very thoughtful and receptive. And that's fine, and he is thoughtful... but at the end of the day that doesn't make PL any easier to use. The simple fact is that PL2 needs to get finished and PL1 needs to be put in to an end-of-life freeze. I don't see that happening, but I do see hundreds of frustrated people at conferences (like I did yesterday) who give up on it when really we should be welcoming them. So I'd prefer not to pretend there isn't a problem, there is, it's big, and we should try to do something about it. I know you don't personify CloudMade but if you think Potlatch 2 is such a high priority perhaps CM could have helped with its development instead of striking out on its own with Mapzen - an editor that's also written in AS3. Aside from that I don't know how closely you follow Potlatch 1 development but most of the changes in the last half year have been purely bugfixes: i18n fixes, Haiti / nearmap imagery support etc. But as we can't change the past work on making it an alternative to Potlatch on the main site (as well as offering JOSM as another alternative). This is something I brought up on IRC yesterday. I think it would be nice to change the Edit tab so that when the first time you use it you don't get Potlatch but a short page showing screenshots a short explanation for the most popular editors, with an emphasis on the Potlatch/Mapzen icon explaining that you can edit right now if you go that route. Then after that when editing you'd get a short message somewhere on the page saying You're editing with Potlatch [linkconfigure another editor/link]. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On Feb 21, 2010, at 11:49 AM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 16:36, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: ... It's very clear that nobody can convince Richard to actually write something any muggle would really want to use, you can scream at him to finish the mythical Potlatch 2 all you want, but he doesn't give a shit and lives on a boat in bliss. That's his choice, and it's totally fine, but if we all feel that way then we have to deal with the downside that every single day we lose tens of thousands of edits because of that monopoly on bad UI. All I'm suggesting is we sidestep the problem and connect people who can report a map bug but can't be bothered to deal with pain and suffering of potlatch with the people who can deal with it, at least until Richard gets his act together and stops fixing every stupid thing in the old codebase. ... This comment is so completely over the top that for me at least it completely invalidates anything else that SteveC might say. Potlatch is an excellent tool for many users, myself included. It mostly works for me too, but we have a lot of patience. If you look at the bigger picture beyond us though it's very hard to use and there's a much better codebase waiting in the wings. It doesn't look like that will be finished. Now, you can dance around that and talk about how receptive Richard is: It has been improving steadily, and in my experience Richard Fairhurst is very thoughtful and receptive. And that's fine, and he is thoughtful... but at the end of the day that doesn't make PL any easier to use. The simple fact is that PL2 needs to get finished and PL1 needs to be put in to an end-of-life freeze. I don't see that happening, but I do see hundreds of frustrated people at conferences (like I did yesterday) who give up on it when really we should be welcoming them. So I'd prefer not to pretend there isn't a problem, there is, it's big, and we should try to do something about it. I know you don't personify CloudMade but if you think Potlatch 2 is such a high priority perhaps CM could have helped with its development instead of striking out on its own with Mapzen - an editor that's also written in AS3. I think you're forgetting just how hard it was to convince Richard that AS3 was a good idea in the first place :-) Aside from that I don't know how closely you follow Potlatch 1 development but most of the changes in the last half year have been purely bugfixes: i18n fixes, Haiti / nearmap imagery support etc. Sure, sure, but the point is that if you spent those same man hours on PL2, it would be here by now. But as we can't change the past work on making it an alternative to Potlatch on the main site (as well as offering JOSM as another alternative). This is something I brought up on IRC yesterday. I think it would be nice to change the Edit tab so that when the first time you use it you don't get Potlatch but a short page showing screenshots a short explanation for the most popular editors, with an emphasis on the Potlatch/Mapzen icon explaining that you can edit right now if you go that route. Then after that when editing you'd get a short message somewhere on the page saying You're editing with Potlatch [linkconfigure another editor/link] I think this is a cool idea. Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Photo_mapping - How to put EXIF data into a jpg image
Hi, On Dom 21 Feb 2010, Sebastian Klein wrote: * gpscorrelate- a command line tool, where you specify the gpx file, the images and (optionally) a time offset gpscorrelate: There is as well a graphical user interface if you prefer it - I just can say it works very well, normally I use interpolation as well between track segments (option -t), as in mountains often the GPS signal is lost, and hence the the track segments are more or less fragmented. Be aware of your time zone (and daylight savings timezone as well) of your camera, as GPX times are all in lon=0°/ Greenwich/ UTC/ Zulu time. Good luck, Jochen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Photo_mapping - How to put EXIF data into a jpg image
On 22 February 2010 06:10, Jochen Plumeyer joc...@plumeyer.org wrote: Be aware of your time zone (and daylight savings timezone as well) of your camera, as GPX times are all in lon=0°/ Greenwich/ UTC/ Zulu time. Actually they are in GPS time, and have an offset in seconds from UTC embedded in the signal. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Photo_mapping - How to put EXIF data into a jpg image
GPS time is now 15 secs ahead of UTC, due to ignoring leap seconds implemented since 1980. See http://leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm PHILLIP BARNETT SERVER MANAGER 200 GRAY'S INN ROAD LONDON WC1X 8XZ UNITED KINGDOM T +44 (0)20 7430 4474 F E phillip.barn...@itn.co.uk http://WWW.ITN.CO.UK P Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email? -Original Message- From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of John Smith Sent: 21 February 2010 20:18 To: Jochen Plumeyer Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Photo_mapping - How to put EXIF data into a jpg image On 22 February 2010 06:10, Jochen Plumeyer joc...@plumeyer.org wrote: Be aware of your time zone (and daylight savings timezone as well) of your camera, as GPX times are all in lon=0°/ Greenwich/ UTC/ Zulu time. Actually they are in GPS time, and have an offset in seconds from UTC embedded in the signal. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Please Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Independent Television News Limited unless specifically stated. This email and any files attached are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify postmas...@itn.co.uk Please note that to ensure regulatory compliance and for the protection of our clients and business, we may monitor and read messages sent to and from our systems. Thank You. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Planet, osm2pgsql interruptus, and reclaiming disk space
On Feb 21, 2010, at 10:37 AM, Jon Burgess wrote: On Sun, 2010-02-21 at 10:12 -0800, Michal Migurski wrote: Hi, I have a problem with osm2pgsql and postgres, I hope someone can point me in the right direction for a fix. I started up a whole-planet osm2pgsql import session from a recent planet dump. While that was going on, the computer had to be rebooted and the process was interrupted. Now I have no data tables (okay) and a few dozen GB less disk space (not okay). I tried to vacuum full the planet_osm database, but didn't reclaim any space. Where does storage go when osm2pgsql is rudely interrupted like that? Temp files? A core dump somewhere? Any advice much appreciated. osm2pgsql only stores data in PostgreSQL. I imagine that the extra disk space is in use in the postgres DB directory. I should get cleared and re-used if you begin the import again. Otherwise you should be able to reclaim it immediately by dropping the database. Thanks Jon. I'm hesitant to drop the DB because of some other data stored there, but it's good to know that osm2pgsql doesn't have any other storage squireled away elsewhere. -mike. michal migurski- m...@stamen.com 415.558.1610 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] 3D OpenStreetMap? (micazook)
Hi, please check out this video and then share your opinion it this is maybe start of 3D OpenStreetMap? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tVcAuNpgk8feature=grec There is also a blog: http://micazook.com/MicaBlogs.mica ps. I'm not involved with micazook.com and have no further info, just stumbled upon this myself via youtube recommended video. Valent. -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, msn: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
Hi folks, On Dom 21 Feb 2010, SteveC wrote: 1) click 'feedback' or 'problem' 2) enter problem 3) click ok I think an easy feedback system is great. And I like the idea of exposing bugs. For this I think it would be essential to coordinate a bit and prepare in an explicit manner workflows (and make them fun, light and non-bureaucratic). I know, these workflows exist already, but they are not mapped (not documented) I think, as usual in an OpenSource project or other common team structures, where workflows establish themselves over time, and mostly perform quite well. Basically I think of creating a tree of bug categories, and in the end of that tree should be supporters who feel it their job to fix the incoming bugs. This bug tree should be easy and fun to use. For me, i.e. bugzilla is an example of a highly functional but difficult bug tracking system. The first supporters we need are the ones who decide the category of a bug, to assign bugs to the right category/ supporting people. Oviously, bug categories correlate with skill profile, interest and free time of supporters (and for mapping fixes, geographic activity). I think it would be helpful as well to make a survey about skill profiles of the supporters (us), to find in some emergency perhaps another supporter who could help out, without depending always on optimal communications. So this would expose as well the skill and power of human resources (or the lack of it) of an important part of the OSM project. So your kind of provocative post could have a very good impact on OSM I think, in establishing better-organized workflows. Of course the whole process should be fun, and no boring bug-fixing slavery. Even more challenging than that kind of system to organize collaborative work would be establishing an organized system of decision-making (but I think this is perhaps just fully utopic democratic geekery). Chances are that an external feedback system will not fit our needs. Cheers! Jochen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Niklas Cholmkvist towards...@gmail.com wrote: I live in a place where I feel the need to map some streets as areas. If I start a little of such mapping, will routing software get confused? Perhaps. That may vary by router? What is it about these streets that requires areas? Does this extend to your town and state as well? Can you give us a link to this area? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
How much traffic do you have and will you get a fine or ticket for choosing the best racing line ? I would like to do something about the related problem of routing through parking areas. But non-convex objects are quite hard to detect and process considering how much data we have. Furthermore, I believe academics have not yet found an efficient (n^2 or n^3) algorithm for routing through areas and the best we have is something like exp(n). On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Niklas Cholmkvist towards...@gmail.com wrote: I live in a place where I feel the need to map some streets as areas. If I start a little of such mapping, will routing software get confused? Regards, Niklas -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Niklas Cholmkvist towards...@gmail.comwrote: I live in a place where I feel the need to map some streets as areas. If I start a little of such mapping, will routing software get confused? If it's not a one-way road, routing software should be pretty much fine, even if it ignores the area tag and treats the road as a loop. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
The problem with your analysis is pretty simple - maybe those people left because the site was crap, not because they inherently don't like adding more than 10 things. Maybe if we make it better, they will add a lot more. On Feb 21, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: Instead of whining about the good and and and the ugly of osm.org and Potlatch and speculating some stats who is contributing to osm # Planet + daily diff from 2010-02-20 total users, with 0 objects in a planet file: 66949 total users, with 10 objects in a planet file: 42450 # North America extract from Nov 2009 total users, with 0 objects: 8043 total users, with 10 objects: 4723 # Germany from Geofabrik total users, with 0 objects: 24172 total users, with 10 objects: 16421 users with less than 10 objects are probably not active anymore and their contributions have been reworked or they haven't done anything useful at all. an even stricter user count quoted from recent talk 8173 as of the beginning of the month, I think. See http://www.flickr.com/photos/itoworld/4360166105 Don't have the total number of users but remember it was 130k long time back Now my speculations. 1/3 -1/2 of users with an account are present in planet 2/3 of active users contributed more than the Potlatch live mode error in their first and last edits the stricter definition of active users reduces these numbers to 1/8 +1/3 of active users in germany Except for germany I would say Osm contributions is still a project for geeks and this will not change anytime soon. That's totally moronic. OSB or other bug entry systems for non mappers are pointless until the experienced user base is big enough to be willing to work on bugs rather their own interests. No, we need to keep innovating not living in 1991. OSB is really cool idea but definitely lacks 2 features - add pictures, now all smart-phones have gps and camera. a pic will tell more than any description. this is easy for anyone to take pics of turn restrictions, speed limits, all kinds of POI. I use Josm with geotagged pics and this is better than anything else and much faster than notebooks, walking papers … - no contact info. as a mapper it's not possible to verify and ask for more details. sure anonymous bugs should be allowed but many people are willing to share their contact email and will love the idea to get points for a certain number of bugs, or a voting system ala amazon reviews might attract non mappers. Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 00:09, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: The problem with your analysis is pretty simple - maybe those people left because the site was crap, not because they inherently don't like adding more than 10 things. Maybe if we make it better, they will add a lot more. OSM, the website, the tools, the interface has to be made easier to use, both for mapmakers and mapusers. I really welcome tools like the wonderful mapbox.com (for devs) and cloudmade poi collector (for mapusers). This is the way to go. And surely a simplification of UX for the main site is a good thing. And goes along with the others. -- -S ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Planet, osm2pgsql interruptus, and reclaiming disk space
On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 22:45, Michal Migurski m...@stamen.com wrote: I'm hesitant to drop the DB because of some other data stored there, but it's good to know that osm2pgsql doesn't have any other storage squireled away elsewhere. What about something like this: http://phppgadmin.sourceforge.net/ -- -S ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On 21 Feb 2010, at 15:09 , SteveC wrote: The problem with your analysis is pretty simple - maybe those people left because the site was crap, not because they inherently don't like adding more than 10 things. Maybe if we make it better, they will add a lot more. I can't agree or disagree here. It's just numbers. I am sure other opensource projects and especially wikipedia will have similar patterns. though their numbers might be completely different. until someone contacts a statistical sample of users and ask why this is pure speculation. some interesting questions - how many users have a GIS, Software background? - which tool, osm.org, wiki, lack of documentation, lack of support, … stopped them this could be done when we move to the new license and all active users have to be contacted anyway and might shed some light on the motivation just in case you forgot. Tom said it many times. fix it, send patches. I am sure Richard will say the same for Potlatch. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
2010/2/21 SteveC st...@asklater.com: Sure. In Germany you have this amazing community where there's a stamptish around every corner. But out here it's much harder and we need these easier tools to build the map. thing is that you can't build a crowd-sourced map when missing the crowd. There is no easy shortcut. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Photo_mapping - How to put EXIF data into a jpg image
John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com writes: On 22 February 2010 06:10, Jochen Plumeyer joc...@plumeyer.org wrote: Be aware of your time zone (and daylight savings timezone as well) of your camera, as GPX times are all in lon=0°/ Greenwich/ UTC/ Zulu time. Actually they are in GPS time, and have an offset in seconds from UTC embedded in the signal. Huh? I realize that GPS internally computes in GPS time (!= UTC, != TAI), but I have never seen an actual device output a track log in GPS time - it's always been UTC. pgpyODmS3ADwb.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] cartagena colrut reconocimiento
veo este link http://groups.google.com.co/group/colrut-em/browse_thread/thread/f27c4b8bc7ffb029/d776a7d882a7db83?lnk=gstq=cartagena#d776a7d882a7db83 pienso me pareceria justo ellos tuviesen en sus mapas y web una simple cita asi: Algunos datos CCBYSA 2010 por OpenStreetMap.org y contribuyentes - Terminos de uso ¿o se quitara algo? _ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=createwx_url=/friends.aspxmkt=en-us___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Photo_mapping - How to put EXIF data into a jpg image
On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:03:40 +1100, Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote: John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com writes: On 22 February 2010 06:10, Jochen Plumeyer joc...@plumeyer.org wrote: Be aware of your time zone (and daylight savings timezone as well) of your camera, as GPX times are all in lon=0°/ Greenwich/ UTC/ Zulu time. Actually they are in GPS time, and have an offset in seconds from UTC embedded in the signal. Huh? I realize that GPS internally computes in GPS time (!= UTC, != TAI), but I have never seen an actual device output a track log in GPS time - it's always been UTC. The GPS/UTC time offset is sent as part of the almanac data. Effectively, if you have a position lock, time will be in UTC. Most GPS receivers can output the time before achieving a position lock. That might be UTC or it might be GPS time, depending on if the almanac has been received or not. -- Andrew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Photo_mapping - How to put EXIF data into a jpg image
Hi again, On Dom 21 Feb 2010, Greg Troxel wrote: John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com writes: On 22 February 2010 06:10, Jochen Plumeyer joc...@plumeyer.org wrote: Be aware of your time zone (and daylight savings timezone as well) of your camera, as GPX times are all in lon=0°/ Greenwich/ UTC/ Zulu time. Actually they are in GPS time, and have an offset in seconds from UTC embedded in the signal. Huh? I realize that GPS internally computes in GPS time (!= UTC, != TAI), but I have never seen an actual device output a track log in GPS time - it's always been UTC. I see no difference between GPS and official ntp (network time protocol) time via internet. AFAIK for ntp servers exist drivers to connect GPS as an official reference time, to distribute and synchronize that time in a network. So (we are blessed) there is no time forking. I think the problem is the POSIX gmtime() function, the algorithm to calculate UNIX epoch seconds is not exact. In our case of photo geo tagging this is no issue I think. Please tell me if I'm wrong here. Jochen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
Even within your own time zone, IRC only allows you to communicate with people who are online right now, not someone who might log in an hour from now. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:29:24 Cc: Talk Openstreetmaptalk@openstreetmap.org; dev listd...@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept Sam Vekemans wrote: Many have abandoned this talk@ list because IRC is more efficient. Only if you want to talk to people either in your own time zone or are night workers. Talk@ communicates ideas with all people all over the globe. Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On Feb 21, 2010, at 18:57, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/2/21 SteveC st...@asklater.com: Sure. In Germany you have this amazing community where there's a stamptish around every corner. But out here it's much harder and we need these easier tools to build the map. thing is that you can't build a crowd-sourced map when missing the crowd. There is no easy shortcut. Was that meant to disagree or agree with what I said or what? cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 5:03 AM, Niklas Cholmkvist towards...@gmail.com wrote: I live in a place where I feel the need to map some streets as areas. If I start a little of such mapping, will routing software get confused? How were you planning to achieve this? Mapping streets (and other linear features) as areas has been discussed many times on the tagging list. See e.g. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2010-February/001389.html There is still no consensus that I'm aware of for how to do this (though I personally think a possible solution is to represent a road as an area (for e.g. rendering) AND a way (for e.g. routing), and relate them with a relation). I would suggest bringing this up again (if you like) on tagg...@openstreetmap.org, rather than talk@openstreetmap.org :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
On 22 February 2010 13:17, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: Was that meant to disagree or agree with what I said or what? Everyone keeps complaining that OSB is the wrong approach, it will create too much work, but no one has any proof of what will happen, and current bugs listed aren't much of a guide because those finding OSM probably won't stumble upon OSB unless they start mapping. I don't see any harm in integrating something into OSM, like OSB, but if it ends up being too much work, then just disable it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk-nl] 3Dshapes
Hallo, inmiddels is ook in mijn omgeving 3Dshapes geïmporteerd. Wat mij opvalt is het aantal wegen die de gebouwen door kruisen. Ik weet zo niet wat correct is, staan de gebouwen correct of zijn de straten goed? Wat is jullie ervaring hiermee? Alvast bedankt, Peter ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] 3Dshapes
Op 21-02-10 21:03, Peter Peterse schreef: inmiddels is ook in mijn omgeving 3Dshapes geïmporteerd. Wat mij opvalt is het aantal wegen die de gebouwen door kruisen. Ik weet zo niet wat correct is, staan de gebouwen correct of zijn de straten goed? Wat is jullie ervaring hiermee? Ik denk dat de gebouwen het correctste zijn. Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] 3Dshapes
Stefan de Konink wrote: Wat mij opvalt is het aantal wegen die de gebouwen door kruisen. Ik weet zo niet wat correct is, staan de gebouwen correct of zijn de straten goed? Wat is jullie ervaring hiermee? Ik denk dat de gebouwen het correctste zijn. Maar de meest pragmatische oplossing is om je $vervoermiddel te pakken en wat tijd te spenderen aan het doorkruisen van je omgeving. Als je dit een aantal keer en op verschillende dagen doet, en je bekijkt dan al je traces, ben je redelijk in staat om te zeggen wat er fout en goed gepositioneerd is. -- Lennard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
It could be argued that the location of pools, even if private, would be a valuable knowledgebase in fire and other emergencies. You are not saying whose pool it is, or who has a pool, only that there is a pool at this location. But I would nevertheless be interested in the privacy implications, given that you can see them with google and similar. jim On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 2:28 PM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: Ive been wondering about the idea of mapping private pools in the same way as private tennis courts have been marked, but been worried about some issues, particularly privacy. With the mapping of tennis courts taking place, is there any reason to not start mapping out private pools in the suburbs? Is there any existing tagging for this? -- _ Jim Croft ~ jim.cr...@gmail.com ~ +61-2-62509499 ~ http://www.google.com/profiles/jim.croft 'A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity.' - Robert Frost, poet (1874-1963) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] State forest areas - possible from DCDB-lite?
Hi, I've heard that the Qld DCDB-lite dataset has some cadastral information that can be used to populate OSM. Does this contain State Forests boundaries? If so, I'd like to understand the process to improve the OSM map around Benarkin by getting the forest tagged; so the question is how would one extract the correct area bounds for Benarkin state forest from DCDB? Refs: 2007 Govt Pdf map of forest extent: http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/register/p02554aa.pdf DERM Qld Govt page on Benarkin: http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/parks/benarkin/index.html OpenStreetmap area is here: http://osm.org/go/ueFPK5A Whereis has the forest extent in green here: http://j.mp/a0tgyr Cheers, Chris ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] State forest areas - possible from DCDB-lite?
On 22 February 2010 14:49, Chris Barham cbar...@pobox.com wrote: so the question is how would one extract the correct area bounds for Benarkin state forest from DCDB? If you know the rough start location then yes you can pull that info from DCDB, I've tagged a number of state forests and national parks this way, some even have a void running through them where roads go :) They usually show up as one big boundary... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
On 22 February 2010 13:28, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: Ive been wondering about the idea of mapping private pools in the same way as private tennis courts have been marked, but been worried about some issues, particularly privacy. With the mapping of tennis courts How are there any privacy issues when you can see those same pools on aerial imagery? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[Talk-br] Fwd: [Local-contacts] Google Data Liberation Front
-- Forwarded message -- From: Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net Date: 2009/9/12 Subject: [Local-contacts] Google Data Liberation Front To: local-conta...@openstreetmap.org Cc: Steve Coast st...@asklater.com Hello Local Contacts, Ævar suggested you'd be good people to spread the gospel about the Google Data Liberation Front initiative. In brief: Google have an initiative to make sure data can't be locked in to Google. Usually this means adding an export function or using a well-known file format (e.g. GMail, Google Docs). But in the case of maps, as ever, it's licensing that's the problem. So we're asking that they sort out the licensing so people know where they stand with tracings from Google aerial imagery. What we'd like, of course, is that the tracings are unrestricted - so we could use them in OSM! Google ask people to vote on these suggestions via Google Moderator. Our suggestion is at http://url.ie/2ero , and so far it has 414 votes - that's three times the next most popular. :) Please, if you can, post it to your local lists and spread the word. We want it to be so well supported that Google feel they have to respond. cheers Richard ___ Local-contacts mailing list local-conta...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/local-contacts ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Fwd: [Local-contacts] Google Data Liberation Front
Ja voto muito tempo atrais :D On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Arlindo Pereira openstreet...@arlindopereira.com wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net Date: 2009/9/12 Subject: [Local-contacts] Google Data Liberation Front To: local-conta...@openstreetmap.org Cc: Steve Coast st...@asklater.com Hello Local Contacts, Ævar suggested you'd be good people to spread the gospel about the Google Data Liberation Front initiative. In brief: Google have an initiative to make sure data can't be locked in to Google. Usually this means adding an export function or using a well-known file format (e.g. GMail, Google Docs). But in the case of maps, as ever, it's licensing that's the problem. So we're asking that they sort out the licensing so people know where they stand with tracings from Google aerial imagery. What we'd like, of course, is that the tracings are unrestricted - so we could use them in OSM! Google ask people to vote on these suggestions via Google Moderator. Our suggestion is at http://url.ie/2ero , and so far it has 414 votes - that's three times the next most popular. :) Please, if you can, post it to your local lists and spread the word. We want it to be so well supported that Google feel they have to respond. cheers Richard ___ Local-contacts mailing list local-conta...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/local-contacts ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Fwd: [Local-contacts] Google Data Liberation Front
Vamos ver no que dá. No YouTube a votação a favor da tag video do HTML 5 deu resultado! 2010/2/21 Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org Ja voto muito tempo atrais :D On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Arlindo Pereira openstreet...@arlindopereira.com wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net Date: 2009/9/12 Subject: [Local-contacts] Google Data Liberation Front To: local-conta...@openstreetmap.org Cc: Steve Coast st...@asklater.com Hello Local Contacts, Ævar suggested you'd be good people to spread the gospel about the Google Data Liberation Front initiative. In brief: Google have an initiative to make sure data can't be locked in to Google. Usually this means adding an export function or using a well-known file format (e.g. GMail, Google Docs). But in the case of maps, as ever, it's licensing that's the problem. So we're asking that they sort out the licensing so people know where they stand with tracings from Google aerial imagery. What we'd like, of course, is that the tracings are unrestricted - so we could use them in OSM! Google ask people to vote on these suggestions via Google Moderator. Our suggestion is at http://url.ie/2ero , and so far it has 414 votes - that's three times the next most popular. :) Please, if you can, post it to your local lists and spread the word. We want it to be so well supported that Google feel they have to respond. cheers Richard ___ Local-contacts mailing list local-conta...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/local-contacts ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-de] Strassenlistenabgleich - jetzt in Selbstbedienung
Am 20. Februar 2010 18:33 schrieb Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de: On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 04:08:58AM -0800, Walter Nordmann wrote: hi florian, ist zwar nicht meine Baustelle aber bei Lauf_a_d_Pegnitz in Bayern scheint was faul zu sein. Die Liste ist 504 Namen lang aber er findet nur eine Straße in OSM. Es ist allerdings eine relativ komplexe Relation - eventuell liegt es daran? Woa - was ist das denn - mehrere outers - Ich halte die relation allerdings fuer broken - Es gibt eine grosse Outer - dann mehrere inner - und dann innerhalb einer der inners dann noch ein outer - Mal davon abgesehen das ich das ganze thema outer/inner nicht wirklich handle ist das aber nur mit mehreren relations abzuhandeln - wie das allerdings mit boundarys funktionieren soll *kratz am kopf*. Ich wuerde tendentiell jetzt eine 2te - Stark vereinfachte relation anlegen mit nur der outers - das Thema Kreisfrei/Gemeindefreie Gebiete ignorierend und die fuer die auswertung nutzen ... Die Relation ist korrekt. Siehe dazu die Beispiele im Wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:multipolygon#Advanced_multipolygons Ciao André ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Advanced Polygone in SQL zusammenbauen? Was: Strassenlistenabgleich - jetzt in Selbstbedienung
On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 09:40:30AM +0100, André Riedel wrote: Ich wuerde tendentiell jetzt eine 2te - Stark vereinfachte relation anlegen mit nur der outers - das Thema Kreisfrei/Gemeindefreie Gebiete ignorierend und die fuer die auswertung nutzen ... Die Relation ist korrekt. Siehe dazu die Beispiele im Wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:multipolygon#Advanced_multipolygons Woa - Hat sichmal jemand Fig. 7 angesehen und mal ueberlegt wie man das automatisiert zusammenbauen soll? IMHO gibt es ausser zufaelliges wuerfeln und gucken welches der inner und outer in welches andere wohl reinpasst keine systematische loesung. Hat jemand schoenes SQL das via postgis dafuer flaechen rauswirft? Bisher (das thema inner outer ignorierend) habe ich die flaechen so zusammengebaut: select ST_BuildArea(ST_Collect(linestring)) as geom from( select linestring fromways where id in ( select member_id fromrelation_members where member_type = 'W' and relation_id = ? order bymember_id ) ) as waylines where ST_NumPoints(linestring)1 ) as border Ich sehe im moment keine moeglichkeit im SQL das zusammenzubauen was da in den Advanced MultiPolygon steht ... Wenn man das getrennt fuer die outer und inner macht kommt da keine flaeche bei raus weil ja die outer zusammen keine flaeche bilden. Und wenn wir schon dabei sind - wie finde ich raus welche flaeche ich von welcher flaeche abziehen soll? Und bevor hier wieder jemand schlaue Sprueche bringt - SQL das funktioniert bitte ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de Es ist ein grobes Missverständnis und eine Fehlwahrnehmung, dem Staat im Internet Zensur- und Überwachungsabsichten zu unterstellen. - - Bundesminister Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble -- 10. Juli in Berlin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Advanced Polygone in SQL zusammenbauen? Was: Strassenlistenabgleich - jetzt in Selbstbedienung
Hallo, Florian Lohoff wrote: Woa - Hat sichmal jemand Fig. 7 angesehen und mal ueberlegt wie man das automatisiert zusammenbauen soll? IMHO gibt es ausser zufaelliges wuerfeln und gucken welches der inner und outer in welches andere wohl reinpasst keine systematische loesung. Wieso das? Am Fusse der Seite habe ich sogar einen Algorithmus verlinkt, der das korrekt macht. Hat jemand schoenes SQL das via postgis dafuer flaechen rauswirft? Man kann diesen Algorithmus vermutlich in SQL bauen, aber ich wuerde davon abraten. schoen wird das bestimmt nicht. Bisher (das thema inner outer ignorierend) habe ich die flaechen so zusammengebaut: select ST_BuildArea(ST_Collect(linestring)) as geom Ich hatte fuer meinen C-Code zunaechst in der GEOS-Library den PolygonBuilder benutzt, auf dem auch das ST_BuildArea aufsetzt, aber der fuehrt nicht in allen Faellen zu korrekten Resultaten, besonders dort, wo zwei inner-Flaechen sich beruehren. Und bevor hier wieder jemand schlaue Sprueche bringt - SQL das funktioniert bitte ... Wie gesagt, ich sehe nicht, wie das in SQL gehen soll. Bestimmt kann man eine Stored Procedure machen, die das kann, aber das ist nicht mein Spezialgebiet. Oder Du laedst Dir unter http://download.geofabrik.de/polygon/polygon.tar.bz2 einen fertigen, weltweiten SQL-Dump mit allen Polygonen (simple+advanced) runter. Das ist noch nicht so richtig dokumentiert, weil wir noch ein paar Unklarheiten bezgl. des Taggings haben (wann und in welchem Umfang uebernimmt ein Multipolygon die Tags seiner Member?), aber der Plan ist, daraus einen regelmaessigen Service zu machen. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Advanced Polygone in SQL zusammenbauen? Was: Strassenlistenabgleich - jetzt in Selbstbedienung
Hi Frederik On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 12:44:27PM +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hallo, Florian Lohoff wrote: Woa - Hat sichmal jemand Fig. 7 angesehen und mal ueberlegt wie man das automatisiert zusammenbauen soll? IMHO gibt es ausser zufaelliges wuerfeln und gucken welches der inner und outer in welches andere wohl reinpasst keine systematische loesung. Wieso das? Am Fusse der Seite habe ich sogar einen Algorithmus verlinkt, der das korrekt macht. Ich habe mir das gerade mal durchgelesen - im prinzip ist das thema inner/outer taggen also obsolete weil die annahme wenn ein ring in einem anderen ist wandelt sich die role von inner zu outer und vice versa. Der aeussere ist immer outer und dann wechselt das jeweils - Also grosses gerate was wenn nur irgendjemand einen kleinen fehler macht (ringe beruehren sich oder ueberlappen sich) das ganze auf die nase faellt. Hat jemand schoenes SQL das via postgis dafuer flaechen rauswirft? Man kann diesen Algorithmus vermutlich in SQL bauen, aber ich wuerde davon abraten. schoen wird das bestimmt nicht. Super Oder Du laedst Dir unter http://download.geofabrik.de/polygon/polygon.tar.bz2 Ich baue die derzeit neu fuer jeden auswertung der Strassenliste, falls jemand das Stadtgebiet modifiziert hat um die boundary zu verbessern. D.h. im zweifelsfalle all 5 minuten ... einen fertigen, weltweiten SQL-Dump mit allen Polygonen (simple+advanced) runter. Das ist noch nicht so richtig dokumentiert, weil wir noch ein paar Unklarheiten bezgl. des Taggings haben (wann und in welchem Umfang uebernimmt ein Multipolygon die Tags seiner Member?), aber der Plan ist, daraus einen regelmaessigen Service zu machen. Unbrauchbar fuer meinen Anwendungsfall. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de Es ist ein grobes Missverständnis und eine Fehlwahrnehmung, dem Staat im Internet Zensur- und Überwachungsabsichten zu unterstellen. - - Bundesminister Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble -- 10. Juli in Berlin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Advanced Polygone in SQL zusammenbauen? Was: Strassenlistenabgleich - jetzt in Selbstbedienung
On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 01:41:09PM +0100, Florian Lohoff wrote: Ich habe mir das gerade mal durchgelesen - im prinzip ist das thema inner/outer taggen also obsolete weil die annahme wenn ein ring in einem anderen ist wandelt sich die role von inner zu outer und vice versa. Der aeussere ist immer outer und dann wechselt das jeweils - Also grosses gerate was wenn nur irgendjemand einen kleinen fehler macht (ringe beruehren sich oder ueberlappen sich) das ganze auf die nase faellt. Okay - Also die idee die ich habe (noch nicht fertig) - Alle polygone zusammensammeln, nach der groesse sortieren und via xor uebereinander legen dabei mit dem groessten anfangen. So habe ich zumindest schonmal die einzelnen polygone der groesse nach sortiert ... select (ST_Dump(geom)).geom from ( select ST_Polygonize(linestring) as geom from( select linestring fromways where id in ( select member_id fromrelation_members where member_type = 'W' and relation_id = 163109 order bymember_role ) ) as waylines where ST_NumPoints(linestring)1 ) as polygons order by ST_Area(geom) desc Nur das Xor fehlt mir gerade noch ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de Es ist ein grobes Missverständnis und eine Fehlwahrnehmung, dem Staat im Internet Zensur- und Überwachungsabsichten zu unterstellen. - - Bundesminister Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble -- 10. Juli in Berlin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Neue Wanderzeichen /-markierungen - Symbole
Hallo, ich habe eifrig nach einem Wanderzeichen für den Wanderweg Deutsche Weinstraße gesucht. In der OSMC Reit- und Wanderkarte werden, wie ich finde gute und schöne, Wanderzeichen angezeigt. Wie diese in der Karte erzeugt werden ist mir teilweise klar. Z.B. scheint für Pferdeverbot es auszureichen, wenn horse=no angegeben ist und diese in einer (mir nicht klar welcher) Datenbank abgelegt sind. Nun möchte ich, daß für den Wanderweg Deutsche Weinstraße das Symbol gerne angeben, in der Relation z.B. oder als Schlüssel-Wert Kombination. Ist mir gleich. Es gibt ein abfotografiertes Bild auf http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Trail_markings für den Weg.Da diese ein Foto ist wird das nicht klappen, denke ich. Ich würde gerne ein Sybol erstellen und in die Datenbank eintragen. Wäre erfreut über Hinweise wie ich das erreiche. Gruß Klaus -- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Neue Wanderzeichen /-markierungen - Symbole
Hallo! fuddel26 wrote: Nun möchte ich, daß für den Wanderweg Deutsche Weinstraße das Symbol gerne angeben, in der Relation Wie Du in OSM solche Wandermarkierungen eintragen kannst, findest Du hier [1] nachlesen. Die Weinstraße hat bereits ein Symbol-Tag: green:white: :WDW:green, also nur mit einem Text. Mit dem vor kurzem hinzugekommenen Symbol Grünes Dreieck auf der Spitze (green_triangle_turned) ließe sich die Weintraube vermutlich gut annähern, das könntest Du dahingehend ändern. bye Nop [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:OSMC_Reitkarte#Wandermarkierungen_direkt_per_Tag_steuern -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Neue-Wanderzeichen-markierungen-Symbole-tp4606847p4607096.html Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Advanced Polygone in SQL zusammenbauen? Was: Strassenlistenabgleich - jetzt in Selbstbedienung
Hallo, Florian Lohoff wrote: Ich baue die derzeit neu fuer jeden auswertung der Strassenliste, Da ist es zwar eine schoene Fingeruebung mit den inner-Polygonen, aber waere es nicht einfacher, fuer die Staedte, welche Exklaven mit nennenswerter Strassenanzahl haben, eine Ausnahme von Hand zu definieren und ansonsten einfach nur den aeussersten Umriss zu verwenden? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Strassensuche in der Karte
Am Donnerstag 18 Februar 2010 schrieb Alexander Matheisen: Am Donnerstag 18 Februar 2010 18:12:31 schrieb Hanno Böck: Am Donnerstag 18 Februar 2010 schrieb Markus: Test: ok dr.-völker-strasse, lauf ok dr. völker strasse, lauf ok dr völker strasse, lauf no d völker strasse, lauf ok völker strasse, lauf ok dr. völker str., lauf ok dr. völker str, lauf Finde ich ganz schön gut! Interessant. Ist scheinbar besser als ich dachte. delphinstr, berlin geht nicht. Hat dafür jemand ne Erklärung? Wundert mich jetzt auch ein wenig. Ok, ich denke ich hab das Problem, das kann Abkürzungen garnicht. Es funktioniert nur weil zwei suchbegriffe matchen, also in deinem fall halt dr völker, aber strasse nicht. Insofern dürfte es bei allen, wo [irgendwas]straße in einem Wort geschrieben ist, nicht funktionieren. Oder seh ich das falsch? -- Hanno Böck Blog: http://www.hboeck.de/ GPG: 3DBD3B20 Jabber/Mail:ha...@hboeck.de http://schokokeks.org - professional webhosting signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Strassensuche in der Karte
Zu deiner Karte, dein gutes Recht. Aber der IE ist noch immer mit Abstand der am weitesten verbreitete Browser. Muss man so hinnehmen, umerziehen funktioniert nicht mal eben. Ist mir auch ehrlich gesagt egal. Ich bin der letzte der jemandem seine Lieblingssoftware mit teils unsinnigen Argumenten aufs Auge drücken möchte. Ich könnte nichts böses darüber sagen. IE war bei mir bisher genauso Sicher wie jeder andere Browser auch. Die Sicherheitsvorkehrungen und der vor der Tatstatur machen es aus, nicht der Name oder die Firma dahinter. Wenn ich nun beispielsweise Werbung oder Anfragen für OSM mache, dann muss ich davon ausgehen, dass gegenüber eben ein IE läuft, der durch irgendwelche Arbeitsplatzlizenzen etc. sogar vorgeschrieben ist. Da kann man dann leider nicht mehr entsprechende IE Unfähige Seiten mitgeben. Da hilft es dann auch nicht auf den Firefox zu verweisen. Entweder können die nicht, oder da passiert in den meisten Fällen das gleiche wie früher mit den Für IE optimiert Seiten bei Anhängern anderer Browser. Die haben es auch nicht eingesehen mal eben den Bwrowser zu wecheln. Umgekehrte Situation heute, die man keinem krum nehmen kann. Oh Wunder, ich habe die Karte zumindest für den IE 8 voll lauffähig bekommen! Das Problem waren so einige Eigenarten dieses Browsers, wie z.B., dass eine Variable nicht den gleichen Namen wie die id eines HTML-Elementes haben darf! Etwas merkwürdig, dieses Verhalten. Und was mich eben dabei aufregt, ist, dass man nur für einen einzigen Browser erstmal lange nach den möglichen Fehlerursachen suchen kann, und dann erstmal einige Browserweichen einbauen muss. Alles musste ich im Prinzip für den IE anpassen: * Handling beim Druck der Entertaste * CSS-Style * Favicon * Teile des Javascripts (siehe oben) * den Button zum Melden von Spam bei OSB Sollte man gegenüber so einem intoleranten Browser etwa tolerant sein? Ich habe besseres zu tun, als mich stundenlang hinzusetzen, und alles nur für den IE umzuschreiben. Dies hängt bei mir auch nicht mit dem IE zusammen. Würde sich der Firefox so wenig an die Standarts halten, würde ich auch ihn irgendwie hassen. Wofür gibt es Webstandarts, wenn man es doch immer an jeden Browser anpassen muss? Gruß Mirko Alex ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Advanced Polygone in SQL zusammenbauen? Was: Strassenlistenabgleich - jetzt in Selbstbedienung
On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 05:09:48PM +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hallo, Florian Lohoff wrote: Ich baue die derzeit neu fuer jeden auswertung der Strassenliste, Da ist es zwar eine schoene Fingeruebung mit den inner-Polygonen, aber waere es nicht einfacher, fuer die Staedte, welche Exklaven mit nennenswerter Strassenanzahl haben, eine Ausnahme von Hand zu definieren und ansonsten einfach nur den aeussersten Umriss zu verwenden? Das ist ja genau die idee - einfach eine simpel relation bauen. Dann muss das nicht jeder neu erfinden das rad - so ein bischen wie Landmasse und Boundary - Einfach die Flaeche ohne die Sonderlocken. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de Es ist ein grobes Missverständnis und eine Fehlwahrnehmung, dem Staat im Internet Zensur- und Überwachungsabsichten zu unterstellen. - - Bundesminister Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble -- 10. Juli in Berlin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tool - Fensterkoordinaten abgreifen
Am 18. Februar 2010 12:44 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck o...@tappenbeck.net: im prinzip ja - nur leider kein osm und zumindest finde ich keine funktion für ein rechteck ! die Geofabrikkarte hat AFAIR so eine JS Funktion, mit der man das anzeigen kann (rechts unten das Plus) Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tool - Fensterkoordinaten abgreifen
Hallo, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: die Geofabrikkarte hat AFAIR so eine JS Funktion, mit der man das anzeigen kann (rechts unten das Plus) Aber Jan wollte ja unbedingt alles fertig in einer Zeile mit Kommata dazwischen ;-) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Bürgermeister beunruhigt wegen OSM und R outing
Am 18. Februar 2010 02:10 schrieb Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com: netter Thread hier ;-), aber was hat das Navigationsgerät im Fahrzeug mit dem Führerschein zu tun? Du hast als Fahrzeugführer im Strassenverkehr gewisse Sorgfaltspflichten, z.B. mußt du dich vor Fahrtantritt vom sicheren Zustand deines Fahrzeuges überzeugen. Zu dieser Sorgfalt gehört meines erachtens auch, bei Verwendung eines Navis dazu geeignete Geräte zu verwenden. nach meinem Erachten gehört das Navigationsgerät nicht zu den Bestandteilen des Fahrzeugs, von deren sicheren Zustand man sich bei Fahrtantritt überzeugen muss. Genauso wie es z.B auch nicht verboten ist, mit einer Karte von 1924 im Handschuhfach rumzufahren. Oder mit einer Karte für Skifahrer, die für Kfz gar nicht geeignet ist. Oder mit überhaupt keiner Karte. Karten und Navigationsgeräte sind kein Bestandteil des Kfz., und man sollte sich im Zweifel auch nicht danach richten. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Rendern von Seezeichen und Editor
Falk Zscheile wrote: Am 19. Februar 2010 20:53 schrieb Arne Johannessen a...@thaw.de: Falk Zscheile wrote: [...] Weiteres Beispiel: durch normale Abnutzung erlangen die Toppzeichen auf Backbord- und Steuerbordtonnen in Dänemark gerne schon mal die Form eines Balls. [...] Und Du bist der Meinung, dies müsse ohne wenn und aber in die Karte? :) Das habe ich nie behauptet. Die OSM-*Datenbank* sollte aber an sich in der Lage sein, auch solche temporären Zustände wiederzugeben, wenn jemand meint, die taggen zu müssen (was andere in diesem Thread vorgeschlagen haben, nicht ich). Nur dazu braucht man eben etwas feinere Möglichkeiten, als die bisherigen GUI-Editoren das ermöglichen. Von Hand in JOSM geht natürlich alles, wird aber evtl. vom nächsten User mit einem GUI- Editor nicht berücksichtigt und überschrieben, warum jetzt auch immer. Deshalb mag ich Christians Vorschlag mit den Vorlagen. Meine Meinung nach sprechen verschiedene Aspekte dagegen. Zum einen ist eine Seekarte keine normale topografische Karte, sondern eine Darstellung von Verkehrszeichen. [...] Ja klar. [...] In der Regel wird die Schifffahrtsverwaltung also schneller mit der Korrektur sein als der Maper mit dem Verzeichnen des Fehlers. Zumal es nicht so viele Seefahrende Maper gibt. Aus hauptsächlich diesem Grund halte ich nicht viel davon, von Anfang an Abweichungen zu taggen. Sich bei Tonnen also auf Sollpositionen und den Ursprungszustand (mit intakten Toppzeichen etc.) zu beschränken, wäre vorerst sinnvoll. Es ist also auch ein Problem der Aktualität der Karte. Auch das ein Grund, allenfalls eine Zusatzinformation mit Datum der Sichtung an die Tonne. Ja, genau. [...] Nationale Ergänzungen sind zulässig, jedoch keine Abweichungen vom festgelegten Standard. Was glaubst Du, was alles gemacht wird, obwohl es nicht zulässig ist... In der Seefahrt ist mir so etwas bisher noch nicht aufgefallen, allerdings kenne ich bisher auch nur die Ostsee. Du hast Recht, die WSAs und die meisten ihrer Pendants in der Welt bemühen sich im Allgemeinen schon sehr, Abweichungen zu vermeiden. Mein Argument ist nur: Ausnahmen *kommen* vor, deshalb muss die mit OSM arbeitende Software mit ihnen rechnen, und zwar bei allen Attributen und Kombinationen. Könnte mir aber vorstellen, dass die vom üblichen Schema abweichenden Tonnen dann extra auf der Seekarte erklärt werden. Die in der nautischen Kartographie gebräuchlichen IHO-Standards S-4 (ehem. M-4) und S-57 ENC lassen da einiges mehr zu, als in einem einfachen GUI-Editor ohne Weiteres abbildbar ist. In der Praxis werden Abweichungen manchmal nicht erklärt (z. B. wenn sie landesüblich sind [1]), manchmal umgangen (z. B. Tonnensignaturen ersetzt durch Schrift betonnt [2]), manchmal durch Kartenschrift erklärt [3]. [1] besondere Bedeutung von Toppzeichen auf Warngebietstonnen in Deutschland [2] einige privat bezeichnete Fahrwasser [3] sehr selten, steht dann eher im Seehandbuch Wie gesagt eine eingetragene Tonne, deren Bedeutung sich nicht erschließt, weil sie nicht im offiziellen Schema vorkommt, ist wertlos für die Navigation. Naja, sie hat vielleicht keine verkehrliche Bedeutung, aber immer noch einen Wert als Navigationshilfe (also zu Orientierungszwecken). -- Arne Johannessen ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Werte fuer XY:urban XY:rural etc.
Chris-Hein Lunkhusen schrieb: gibt es eine Zusammenfassung fuer maxspeed Werte der Form XY:urban XY:rural irgendwo im wiki? Bin leider nicht fuendig geworden. In Tagwatch? http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/Germany/De/keystats_maxspeed.html Danke, aber ich habe mich leider ein bischen falsch ausgedrueckt: ich suche die entsprechenden Geschwindigkeiten fuer XY:urban/rural, etc. Fuer Deutschland sind diese klar, fuer andere Laender leider nicht. Aber bitte beachten, dass die meisten Apps damit nichts anfangen können. Ich versuche gerade meiner Applikation diese Werte beizubringen und suche eben nach solch einer Liste mit Geschwindigkeiten. :-) Julian signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Navivertrauen
Johann H. Addicks glaubte zu wissen: Volker Fischer schrieb: Manche meine wohl, dass man unter einer Brücke, die für Fahrzeuge mit mehr als 3,80 Meter Höhe gesperrt ist, doch durchfahren kann, wenn die Polizei nicht in der Nähe ist. *lol* Ich weiss nicht, was daran lustig sein soll. Z 265 sagt ganz klar, daß Fahrzeuge, die höher als die Angabe auf dem Schild sind, dort nicht fahren *dürfen*. Egal ob es technisch passen könnte oder nicht. Es ist einfach eine Fehleinschätzung der Toleranzen und des Umgangs damit. Denn wenn der Fahrer -um im Bild zu bleiben- 3m90 hohen Gespanns vor so einem Schild steht und hofft, dass wie üblich 20cm Sicherheitsreserve in der Beschilderung vorhanden sind, zumal wenn man sich auf der richtigen Fahrbahnseite hält... Und wenn die Toleranz eben mal knapper bemessen ist, dann heisst's hoch gepokert und verloren. Wer so bescheuert ist und da ungebremst durchrauschen will hat den Lacher verdient. Sorry, aber wenn ich schon ein solches Zeichen mißachte, dann laß ich da ganz langsam ranrollen und schau mir rechtzeitig an, ob das klappt oder nicht. Nein, ich hab da kein Mitleid. Beschimpfungen bitte per PM. flo -- Ich hab nur eine Bitte: bitte _nicht_ die Ausstellungs-WCs benutzen. Und was ist mit try before you buy?[Matthias Kryn und Hajo Pflueger in dag°] ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] (NIcht-)Raucherbereiche mappen
Am 19. Februar 2010 18:46 schrieb 1248 1...@gmx.de: Da sich auch auf der Diskussionsseite des Proposals keine Einwände finden, bin ich auch für die Abstimmung. Für Interessierte hier noch der Link zum Proposal: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Smoking üblicherweise sollten solche Ankündigungen auf der englischen Liste (Talk) (zusätzlich) gemacht werden. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] (NIcht-)Raucherbereiche mappen
Am 19. Februar 2010 18:46 schrieb 1248 1...@gmx.de: Da sich auch auf der Diskussionsseite des Proposals keine Einwände finden, bin ich auch für die Abstimmung. Für Interessierte hier noch der Link zum Proposal: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Smoking mal ne Frage: die üblichen Raucherbereiche auf deutschen Bahnhöfen: wie würde ich die nach diesem Schema taggen? Diese gelben Zonen, die entweder innen oder aussen, normalerweise aber nicht abgetrennt (also nicht separated) sind. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Navivertrauen
Johann H. Addicks glaubte zu wissen: Am 19.02.2010 21:01, schrieb Florian Gross: Du willst damit jetzt sagen, daß man als Führer eines Sattelzuges nicht darauf achten muß, wo man hinfährt? ;-) Ich hab jahrelang u.a. Transporte bis 25,5m Länge unter sehr beengten Verhältnissen auf Baustellen eingewiesen, da lernt man sehr schnell, was der Fahrer sieht oder auch nicht. Dann weisst Du aber auch, dass nicht die hier kolportiertierten Geschichten (Navi sagt: Jetzt links abbiegen. Frau fährt mit Auto in den Fluss) das Problem darstellen, wenn Sattelzüge (oder meinetwegen auch Kleintransporter mit Doppelachs-Anhängern) in die Bedrouille geraten. Hier in der Gegend sind nur die LKW ein Problem, die dem PKW- Navi nachfahren und Zeichen 110-58 mit der Angabe 20% in Verbindung mit Zeichen 253 ignorieren. Navis für LKW routen gar nicht über solche Strecken, wenn man die Daten des LKW/Zuges richtig eingibt. Früher haben die Fahrer sich einfach kaum von den Hauptstraßen heruntergetraut und sind strikt Nach vorher aufgeschriebener Route gefahren. Heute hat jeder ein Navi und die Fahrer werden wagemutiger. Bingo. Die sparen sich aber gerne das Geld für ein ihrem Fahrzeug angepaßtem Navi und nehmen das nächste Billigangebot aus dem Blödmarkt. Daß ein 40-Tonner dann doch etwas anderes als ein PKW ist, merken manche erst, wenn sie festhängen. Und wenn dann die Gemeinde dann noch (für heutige Verhältnisse) unzureichend beschildert hat (Durchfahrtsbreitenprobleme nicht rechtzeitig vorher angeschlagen, fehlende Wendemöglichkeiten nicht angekündigt), dann gibt's eben (fast) feststeckende Fahrer, die zu Verkehrsbehinderungen und Anwohnerstörungen führen. Ich bleib dabei: viele Probleme entstehen auch dadurch, daß immer mehr beim Fahren das Denken nicht auf die Situation vor sich lenken und damit über kurz oder lang auf die Nase fallen. Sieht eng aus, wird schon passen. Und dann mit 60km/h durch ein enges Sträßchen, weil man ja unter Zeitdruck steht. Nach dem Rums haben die auf einmal viel Zeit. flo -- Wieso sollte ich quoten lernen, wenn ich überhaupt nicht quote ??[Reiner Riehlnehm in drts] ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Strassensuche in der Karte
Am 18. Februar 2010 18:03 schrieb Alexander Matheisen Finde ich ganz schön gut! Meiner Meinung wird das dem normalsterblichen Nutzer i.d.r ausreichen. Klar ist es nicht perfekt, aber besser, als gar keine Suchfunktion. die Lösung, die derzeit dort läuft (Auswahl per Drop-Down je Anfangsbuchstabe) ist m.E. für den gewünschten Anwendungsfall besser geeignet, weil automatisch nur Straßen des Ortes auftauchen und Tippfehler von vornherein ausgeschlossen werden. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Mal wieder: Blaues Meer und mkgmap; Karten für Garmins
Nun ein Selbstkommentar: Ich hab mich inzwischen in die mkgmap-dev-Liste eingetragen und bin ein wenig schlauer. Allerdings noch nicht schlau genug, um damit auf Basis der All-in-one-Map selber eine funktionierende Karte zu erzeugen. Es gibt für einen Anfänger wie mich einfach zuviel zu beachten. Man muß Anpassungen im TYP-File machen und in den style files bzgl. der Polygone. Was mich nun interessieren würde, ist, ob es eine zentrale Stelle gibt, wo Leute ihre Typ-files nebst styles hochladen können? Eigentlich wäre der typfile-Editor dieser Punkt, wenn man nur sagen könnte, dass die auch sichtbar für andere User sein sollen. Viele Grüße von Dani ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tool - Fensterkoordinaten abgreifen
Am 21. Februar 2010 21:51 schrieb Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: Hallo, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: die Geofabrikkarte hat AFAIR so eine JS Funktion, mit der man das anzeigen kann (rechts unten das Plus) Aber Jan wollte ja unbedingt alles fertig in einer Zeile mit Kommata dazwischen ;-) schon, aber kann man das nicht kurz anpassen? Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
