Re: Changes to use-livecode list.

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 01/06/2017 04:29 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:


Unless there a real advantage that I can't think of, or a need, for this
change, could I please plead with Heather to reverse that particular
change.


I believe the change that Heather (et al?) made to the MailMan 
configuration is the correct way (or at least one of the correct ways) 
to handle DMARC. DMARC has been around for quite some time, although the 
adoption of DMARC record processing has lagged way behind its need. And 
the pain points of its adoption are in the direction of increased 
security and lower spam and phishing volume.




--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com


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Re: Changes to use-livecode list.

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Bouncy, bouncy, rubber ball . . .

30 seconds . . .

Not really the end of the world.

Richmond.

On 1/6/17 5:56 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

-1 I plead with Heather to NOT reverse this recent change! Cmon, no one sees 
that people getting bounced is MUCH WORSE than the inconvenience of what your 
from address looks like??

Bob S



On Jan 6, 2017, at 04:29 , Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
 wrote:


I know Heather has just made some changes to try to solve the 'bounce' problem. 
But I think in doing so a new problem has arisen.

It used to be that email from the list showed up as
   'from' : someu...@theiraddress.com
   'reply-to' : use-livecode@lists.runrev.com

They now show up as
   'from' : How to use Livecode 
   'cc' : someu...@theiraddress.com

which is (for me at least) much less convenient.
Previously I could sit there in my email client, and immediately see who had sent each 
email on the list, so it was very easy to look back to remind myself what an individual 
had said - indeed it was even easy to search for their emails using the "Find" 
feature.

Now that's impossible - all emails in the thread appear from the same address, 
and need to be individually opened to see who they were from, and so searching 
for a reply that I remember ws from (say) Richard is much harder.

Unless there a real advantage that I can't think of, or a need, for this 
change, could I please plead with Heather to reverse that particular change.

Thanks
Alex.


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Re: Changes to use-livecode list.

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Thank you very much for that recipe Peter Brett; very useful as I use 
Thunderbird on both Mac and Linux.


Returning to Macintosh I realise how much my experience on Mac has been 
enriched by what I learnt from

a 10 year sojourn on Linux . . .

Richmond.

On 1/6/17 5:43 pm, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
Yes, and Yes. That does indeed solve the problem for me - I too now 
see "Some Name via use-livecode" so all my functionality and preferred 
way of working is restored.


And, as I said originally - if there's a need for this, then I would 
have happily put up with (sorry - "accepted") it just fine :-)


Thanks again Peter (and Heather, and everyone else)

Alex


On 06/01/2017 14:27, Peter TB Brett via use-livecode wrote:

On 06/01/2017 12:29, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:

Now that's impossible - all emails in the thread appear from the same
address, and need to be individually opened to see who they were from,
and so searching for a reply that I remember ws from (say) Richard is
much harder.


Hi Alex,

Do you use Thunderbird?  If so, you probably want to:

1. Open the 'Preferences' window
2. Go to the 'Display' page
3. Go to the 'Advanced' tab
4. Disable the checkbox marked 'Show only display name for people in 
my address book'


This resolved the problem for me.

  Peter




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Re: Changes to use-livecode list.

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

-1 I plead with Heather to NOT reverse this recent change! Cmon, no one sees 
that people getting bounced is MUCH WORSE than the inconvenience of what your 
from address looks like?? 

Bob S


> On Jan 6, 2017, at 04:29 , Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I know Heather has just made some changes to try to solve the 'bounce' 
> problem. But I think in doing so a new problem has arisen.
> 
> It used to be that email from the list showed up as
>   'from' : someu...@theiraddress.com
>   'reply-to' : use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> 
> They now show up as
>   'from' : How to use Livecode 
>   'cc' : someu...@theiraddress.com
> 
> which is (for me at least) much less convenient.
> Previously I could sit there in my email client, and immediately see who had 
> sent each email on the list, so it was very easy to look back to remind 
> myself what an individual had said - indeed it was even easy to search for 
> their emails using the "Find" feature.
> 
> Now that's impossible - all emails in the thread appear from the same 
> address, and need to be individually opened to see who they were from, and so 
> searching for a reply that I remember ws from (say) Richard is much harder.
> 
> Unless there a real advantage that I can't think of, or a need, for this 
> change, could I please plead with Heather to reverse that particular change.
> 
> Thanks
> Alex.
> 
> 
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Re: Changes to use-livecode list.

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

Yes, and Yes. That does indeed solve the problem for me - I too now see 
"Some Name via use-livecode" so all my functionality and preferred way 
of working is restored.


And, as I said originally - if there's a need for this, then I would 
have happily put up with (sorry - "accepted") it just fine :-)


Thanks again Peter (and Heather, and everyone else)

Alex


On 06/01/2017 14:27, Peter TB Brett via use-livecode wrote:

On 06/01/2017 12:29, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:

Now that's impossible - all emails in the thread appear from the same
address, and need to be individually opened to see who they were from,
and so searching for a reply that I remember ws from (say) Richard is
much harder.


Hi Alex,

Do you use Thunderbird?  If so, you probably want to:

1. Open the 'Preferences' window
2. Go to the 'Display' page
3. Go to the 'Advanced' tab
4. Disable the checkbox marked 'Show only display name for people in 
my address book'


This resolved the problem for me.

  Peter




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Re: Changes to use-livecode list.

[Peter TB Brett via use-livecode]

On 06/01/2017 12:29, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:

Now that's impossible - all emails in the thread appear from the same
address, and need to be individually opened to see who they were from,
and so searching for a reply that I remember ws from (say) Richard is
much harder.


Hi Alex,

Do you use Thunderbird?  If so, you probably want to:

1. Open the 'Preferences' window
2. Go to the 'Display' page
3. Go to the 'Advanced' tab
4. Disable the checkbox marked 'Show only display name for people in my 
address book'


This resolved the problem for me.

  Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Technical Project Manager

lcb-mode for Emacs: https://github.com/peter-b/lcb-mode

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Re: Changes to use-livecode list.

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

The "via" for this gmail user doesn't pose any issues, so if this change
solves the unsubscribe problem, yay!

On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 8:22 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I don't really see what all the fuss is about.
>
> I have been "bounced"/"blocked" or whatever it is called 7 times: but as
> it takes about 30 seconds to reset things after the first one or two times
> I couldn't be bothered getting annoyed with it.
>
> Whether a posting i labelled as "via" or not seems neither here nor there
> as long as one can read the thing.
>
> Richmond.
>
>
> On 1/6/17 3:08 pm, Keith Martin via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> On 6 Jan 2017, at 12:55, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
>>
>> Well. That's the problem you see. DMARC rejects mail on the basis that it
>>> does not come from the same address as the sender ie the posting person's
>>> email is not the list address.
>>>
>>
>> Actually, what *I* now see is emails being marked as from "[individual
>> name] via use-livecode", which is actually perfectly usable for me. (I
>> don't mean this as an 'I'm alright Jack' message, just noting that I do see
>> individual names.)
>>
>> k
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Changes to use-livecode list.

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

I don't really see what all the fuss is about.

I have been "bounced"/"blocked" or whatever it is called 7 times: but as 
it takes about 30 seconds to reset things after the first one or two 
times I couldn't be bothered getting annoyed with it.


Whether a posting i labelled as "via" or not seems neither here nor 
there as long as one can read the thing.


Richmond.

On 1/6/17 3:08 pm, Keith Martin via use-livecode wrote:

On 6 Jan 2017, at 12:55, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:

Well. That's the problem you see. DMARC rejects mail on the basis 
that it does not come from the same address as the sender ie the 
posting person's email is not the list address.


Actually, what *I* now see is emails being marked as from "[individual 
name] via use-livecode", which is actually perfectly usable for me. (I 
don't mean this as an 'I'm alright Jack' message, just noting that I 
do see individual names.)


k
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Re: Changes to use-livecode list.

[Keith Martin via use-livecode]

On 6 Jan 2017, at 12:55, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:

Well. That's the problem you see. DMARC rejects mail on the basis that 
it does not come from the same address as the sender ie the posting 
person's email is not the list address.


Actually, what *I* now see is emails being marked as from "[individual 
name] via use-livecode", which is actually perfectly usable for me. (I 
don't mean this as an 'I'm alright Jack' message, just noting that I do 
see individual names.)


k
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Re: Changes to use-livecode list.

[Keith Martin via use-livecode]

On 6 Jan 2017, at 12:29, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:

> I please plead with Heather to reverse that particular change.

Seconded, with bells on! :(

k


---

Keith Martin
Senior Lecturer, LCC (University of the Arts London)
Technical Editor, MacUser magazine (1997-2015)
http://PanoramaPhotographer.com
http://thatkeith.com
+44 (0)7909541365

---
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Re: Changes to use-livecode list.

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2017-01-06 13:55, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:

Well. That's the problem you see. DMARC rejects mail on the basis that
it does not come from the same address as the sender ie the posting
person's email is not the list address. Reversing this change will
reinstate that issue. There is no good solution here, which is why I'm
wondering if the list is reaching end of life. Either a proportion of
list users get persistently bounced, creating bounce problems for
other list users in the process, or we live with this style of from
address. And as yet, I do not know if this has really solved the
problem, we'll need to wait a few weeks and see.


This is a pretty useful blog post about the subject, for anyone 
interested. It doesn't sound like any 'perfect' solution is going to 
appear anytime soon...




Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Changes to use-livecode list.

[Heather Laine via use-livecode]

Well. That's the problem you see. DMARC rejects mail on the basis that it does 
not come from the same address as the sender ie the posting person's email is 
not the list address. Reversing this change will reinstate that issue. There is 
no good solution here, which is why I'm wondering if the list is reaching end 
of life. Either a proportion of list users get persistently bounced, creating 
bounce problems for other list users in the process, or we live with this style 
of from address. And as yet, I do not know if this has really solved the 
problem, we'll need to wait a few weeks and see.

Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 6 Jan 2017, at 12:29, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I know Heather has just made some changes to try to solve the 'bounce' 
> problem. But I think in doing so a new problem has arisen.
> 
> It used to be that email from the list showed up as
>   'from' : someu...@theiraddress.com
>   'reply-to' : use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> 
> They now show up as
>   'from' : How to use Livecode 
>   'cc' : someu...@theiraddress.com
> 
> which is (for me at least) much less convenient.
> Previously I could sit there in my email client, and immediately see who had 
> sent each email on the list, so it was very easy to look back to remind 
> myself what an individual had said - indeed it was even easy to search for 
> their emails using the "Find" feature.
> 
> Now that's impossible - all emails in the thread appear from the same 
> address, and need to be individually opened to see who they were from, and so 
> searching for a reply that I remember ws from (say) Richard is much harder.
> 
> Unless there a real advantage that I can't think of, or a need, for this 
> change, could I please plead with Heather to reverse that particular change.
> 
> Thanks
> Alex.
> 
> 
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Changes to use-livecode list.

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

I know Heather has just made some changes to try to solve the 'bounce' 
problem. But I think in doing so a new problem has arisen.


It used to be that email from the list showed up as
   'from' : someu...@theiraddress.com
   'reply-to' : use-livecode@lists.runrev.com

They now show up as
   'from' : How to use Livecode 
   'cc' : someu...@theiraddress.com

which is (for me at least) much less convenient.
Previously I could sit there in my email client, and immediately see who 
had sent each email on the list, so it was very easy to look back to 
remind myself what an individual had said - indeed it was even easy to 
search for their emails using the "Find" feature.


Now that's impossible - all emails in the thread appear from the same 
address, and need to be individually opened to see who they were from, 
and so searching for a reply that I remember ws from (say) Richard is 
much harder.


Unless there a real advantage that I can't think of, or a need, for this 
change, could I please plead with Heather to reverse that particular change.


Thanks
Alex.


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