Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias
I am not convinced that this is useful (yet). I have been generating some red-link lists for the upcoming international edit-a-thon about Art Feminism on February 1st, and I tried out this tool to see if I could come with with lists of women artists already in other projects. With Reasonator I see 503 female persons and 760 male persons. Not very helpful (yet) for generating red-link lists. 2014/1/23, Risker risker...@gmail.com: On 23 January 2014 15:42, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On 23 January 2014 15:12, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box would be the main attraction; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have to do is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an infobox with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ... low-tech ;-) Indeed - but we have to work with what we have. Perhaps we could concentrate on one very narrow subject, and its single corresponding infobox, as a pilot? I suggest that this discussion should be on the various projects that might be affected, particularly as different projects have very different ideas about whether the use of Wikidata for anything more than language links is acceptable. Many projects do not permit bulk bot creation of content, and this proposal is a close parallel. Further, content that isn't editable on the project on which it is hosted is probably not a very effective way to persuade people to turn it into an actual page. Trialing the process on some small projects that actively volunteer to participate would be a first step. Risker/Anne ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias
Hoi, You are conflating two tools .. they are still quite distinct.. - What you refer to is a query tool and IT provides you with the numbers you quote. - Reasonator provides you with a search functionality and a display functionality So Reasonator gives you something like this [1] Thanks, GerardM [1] http://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/?lang=nlq=3356848 [1] On 24 January 2014 09:24, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote: I am not convinced that this is useful (yet). I have been generating some red-link lists for the upcoming international edit-a-thon about Art Feminism on February 1st, and I tried out this tool to see if I could come with with lists of women artists already in other projects. With Reasonator I see 503 female persons and 760 male persons. Not very helpful (yet) for generating red-link lists. 2014/1/23, Risker risker...@gmail.com: On 23 January 2014 15:42, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On 23 January 2014 15:12, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box would be the main attraction; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have to do is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an infobox with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ... low-tech ;-) Indeed - but we have to work with what we have. Perhaps we could concentrate on one very narrow subject, and its single corresponding infobox, as a pilot? I suggest that this discussion should be on the various projects that might be affected, particularly as different projects have very different ideas about whether the use of Wikidata for anything more than language links is acceptable. Many projects do not permit bulk bot creation of content, and this proposal is a close parallel. Further, content that isn't editable on the project on which it is hosted is probably not a very effective way to persuade people to turn it into an actual page. Trialing the process on some small projects that actively volunteer to participate would be a first step. Risker/Anne ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias
Hoi, As I recall it there is a category with Russian female painters.. Using Widar [1] and identifying them as a painter and a female takes all of 5 minutes.. Thanks, GerardM [1] http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/autolist.html On 24 January 2014 13:40, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote: Magnus, you are magical as always, thanks! What an odd list though - who has been working so diligently on Russian paintresses? Whoever you are, great work! meanwhile, sending more virtual kudos to Magnus while I dig into these results, Jane 2014/1/24, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com: A list of female painters with no article on en.wp: http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/autolist.html?q=claim%5B106%3A1028181%5D%20and%20claim%5B21%3A6581072%5D%20%20and%20nolink%5Benwiki%5D (might take a few seconds to load) Cheers, Magnus On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 8:24 AM, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote: I am not convinced that this is useful (yet). I have been generating some red-link lists for the upcoming international edit-a-thon about Art Feminism on February 1st, and I tried out this tool to see if I could come with with lists of women artists already in other projects. With Reasonator I see 503 female persons and 760 male persons. Not very helpful (yet) for generating red-link lists. 2014/1/23, Risker risker...@gmail.com: On 23 January 2014 15:42, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On 23 January 2014 15:12, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box would be the main attraction; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have to do is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an infobox with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ... low-tech ;-) Indeed - but we have to work with what we have. Perhaps we could concentrate on one very narrow subject, and its single corresponding infobox, as a pilot? I suggest that this discussion should be on the various projects that might be affected, particularly as different projects have very different ideas about whether the use of Wikidata for anything more than language links is acceptable. Many projects do not permit bulk bot creation of content, and this proposal is a close parallel. Further, content that isn't editable on the project on which it is hosted is probably not a very effective way to persuade people to turn it into an actual page. Trialing the process on some small projects that actively volunteer to participate would be a first step. Risker/Anne ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l , mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- undefined ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias
On 22 January 2014 08:35, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:
There are many ways to skin a cat. The most obvious
one is to add a {{Reasonator}} template as a place
holder in a Wikipedia. Another is to capture a not
found or a red link and insert Reasonator info. What
I am trying to do is to give a sense of direction. I am
not indicating how it will be done for sure.
[I'm not on the devs list, so trimmed from the CC]
I would like people to be able to subst that template (or have a big
button that does the same thing), and have some code draft a stub
article based on the statements in Wikidata, say:
X was a German painter born in [[Munich]] on
27 May 1801. He died in [[Berlin]] on 3
March 1899
with formatted references, a reflist template, and a pre-populated
infobox. It would be delivered in preview state, allowing further
editing before publication.
A suitably prominent warning would alert editors that they still bear
responsibility for ensuring that the subject is notable, and the
article fit for publication, according to local standards. A hidden
category and/or an edit tag would allow tracking.
Because of the complexity of this task, we could pilot it for one type
of subject (say, buildings, or people, or even a subset of one of
those) in one or two languages.
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias
Hi Andy,
I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box would be
the main attraction; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata
information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have to do
is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the
wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an infobox
with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ... low-tech ;-)
Cheers,
Magnus
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.ukwrote:
On 22 January 2014 08:35, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
wrote:
There are many ways to skin a cat. The most obvious
one is to add a {{Reasonator}} template as a place
holder in a Wikipedia. Another is to capture a not
found or a red link and insert Reasonator info. What
I am trying to do is to give a sense of direction. I am
not indicating how it will be done for sure.
[I'm not on the devs list, so trimmed from the CC]
I would like people to be able to subst that template (or have a big
button that does the same thing), and have some code draft a stub
article based on the statements in Wikidata, say:
X was a German painter born in [[Munich]] on
27 May 1801. He died in [[Berlin]] on 3
March 1899
with formatted references, a reflist template, and a pre-populated
infobox. It would be delivered in preview state, allowing further
editing before publication.
A suitably prominent warning would alert editors that they still bear
responsibility for ensuring that the subject is notable, and the
article fit for publication, according to local standards. A hidden
category and/or an edit tag would allow tracking.
Because of the complexity of this task, we could pilot it for one type
of subject (say, buildings, or people, or even a subset of one of
those) in one or two languages.
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias
What about having the Reasonator sit in the Draft namespace, with a
link from the search results or the text preloaded for non-existing
pages in the main namespace?
Daniel
--
http://www.naturkundemuseum-berlin.de/en/institution/mitarbeiter/mietchen-daniel/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Daniel_Mietchen/Publications
http://okfn.org
http://wikimedia.org
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Magnus Manske
magnusman...@googlemail.com wrote:
Hi Andy,
I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box would be
the main attraction; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata
information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have to do
is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the
wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an infobox
with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ... low-tech ;-)
Cheers,
Magnus
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Andy Mabbett
a...@pigsonthewing.org.ukwrote:
On 22 January 2014 08:35, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
wrote:
There are many ways to skin a cat. The most obvious
one is to add a {{Reasonator}} template as a place
holder in a Wikipedia. Another is to capture a not
found or a red link and insert Reasonator info. What
I am trying to do is to give a sense of direction. I am
not indicating how it will be done for sure.
[I'm not on the devs list, so trimmed from the CC]
I would like people to be able to subst that template (or have a big
button that does the same thing), and have some code draft a stub
article based on the statements in Wikidata, say:
X was a German painter born in [[Munich]] on
27 May 1801. He died in [[Berlin]] on 3
March 1899
with formatted references, a reflist template, and a pre-populated
infobox. It would be delivered in preview state, allowing further
editing before publication.
A suitably prominent warning would alert editors that they still bear
responsibility for ensuring that the subject is notable, and the
article fit for publication, according to local standards. A hidden
category and/or an edit tag would allow tracking.
Because of the complexity of this task, we could pilot it for one type
of subject (say, buildings, or people, or even a subset of one of
those) in one or two languages.
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias
Hoi,
Having Reasonator generated content in a draft namespace is *NOT* a bad
idea.
- I do not know enough about the draft namespace.. Is there a way to
discover that an article exists in Draft ??
- My personal target for this functionality is very much the smaller
projects. By using a draft environment I am afraid it becomes easily too
complicated in these environments.
- Red links, are they allowed to point to the draft namespace?
- How about disambiguation because, Wikidata is very likely to create
ambiguity ... then again, as there is an auto describe function, it is
possible to add suffixes like actor politician etc..
- Magnus indicated that providing information to templates is well
possible. grin he calls it low tech /grin
- So far we prefer to show a label in stead of a Qnumber.
- We would *REALLY* like to have a personal fall-back chain of
languages based on #babel information..
- There is no API to read #Babel yet
- Obviously this has implications for caching..
- HOWEVER as we share this content with Wikidata and all other
projects, it can aggregate in one cache.. do not know if that is
good or bad
Thanks,
GerardM
On 23 January 2014 16:26, Daniel Mietchen daniel.mietc...@googlemail.comwrote:
What about having the Reasonator sit in the Draft namespace, with a
link from the search results or the text preloaded for non-existing
pages in the main namespace?
Daniel
--
http://www.naturkundemuseum-berlin.de/en/institution/mitarbeiter/mietchen-daniel/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Daniel_Mietchen/Publications
http://okfn.org
http://wikimedia.org
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Magnus Manske
magnusman...@googlemail.com wrote:
Hi Andy,
I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box would
be
the main attraction; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata
information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have to do
is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the
wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an infobox
with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ... low-tech
;-)
Cheers,
Magnus
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk
wrote:
On 22 January 2014 08:35, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
wrote:
There are many ways to skin a cat. The most obvious
one is to add a {{Reasonator}} template as a place
holder in a Wikipedia. Another is to capture a not
found or a red link and insert Reasonator info. What
I am trying to do is to give a sense of direction. I am
not indicating how it will be done for sure.
[I'm not on the devs list, so trimmed from the CC]
I would like people to be able to subst that template (or have a big
button that does the same thing), and have some code draft a stub
article based on the statements in Wikidata, say:
X was a German painter born in [[Munich]] on
27 May 1801. He died in [[Berlin]] on 3
March 1899
with formatted references, a reflist template, and a pre-populated
infobox. It would be delivered in preview state, allowing further
editing before publication.
A suitably prominent warning would alert editors that they still bear
responsibility for ensuring that the subject is notable, and the
article fit for publication, according to local standards. A hidden
category and/or an edit tag would allow tracking.
Because of the complexity of this task, we could pilot it for one type
of subject (say, buildings, or people, or even a subset of one of
those) in one or two languages.
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 7:26 AM, Daniel Mietchen daniel.mietc...@googlemail.com wrote: What about having the Reasonator sit in the Draft namespace, with a link from the search results or the text preloaded for non-existing pages in the main namespace? Daniel It is still far too early to do this. We still need to resolve a lot of open questions around the Draft namespace. We don't advertise drafts on red links or search yet, we haven't figured out how to deal with drafts for articles that already exist, how to present a proper feed of drafts, and lots more. Plus, it's only on English Wikipedia so you're not going to get much bang for your buck working on implementing some kind of suggested content via Wikidata. We should put this idea in the list of future possible enhancements at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Draft_namespace ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias
Hoi, We can provide information now(ish). We are discussing draft because it is a likely avenue. It is however very much NOT intended for the English Wikipedia. If anything it would be much better if we work this out on other Wikipedias first. The most benefit from Reasonator will be for the bottom 240 Wikipedias (in page views or articles). They are most unlikely to provide the information we take for granted. They do have first and foremost a quantity problem; a quality problem does not exist when there is nothing to assess. If anything Wikidata is growing fast. It supports more subjects than any Wikipedia. It supports more subjects in any language than its Wikipedia. All the time statements are added that make the Wikidata content more valuable. Steven, Reasonator allows us to share information we have and do not serve in any other way with our public. Reasonator is very much developed in an iterative way. It is not developed by committee but it relies very much on the feedback we get. We have reported on Reasonator and associated tools for quite some time now. The bottom line is not that every thing is perfect. Reasonator is not. It is however getting better all the time. We are also ready to progress towards the functionality we are discussing. Steven would you be interested in supporting us in such an adventure ... remember, WMF aims to share in the sum of all knowledge ... It is one way to grow both our public and our community, it will teach us much about how to bring Wikidata content to a public and grow its community that is already a top 10 WMF community in contributors. Thanks, Gerard On 23 January 2014 20:45, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 7:26 AM, Daniel Mietchen daniel.mietc...@googlemail.com wrote: What about having the Reasonator sit in the Draft namespace, with a link from the search results or the text preloaded for non-existing pages in the main namespace? Daniel It is still far too early to do this. We still need to resolve a lot of open questions around the Draft namespace. We don't advertise drafts on red links or search yet, we haven't figured out how to deal with drafts for articles that already exist, how to present a proper feed of drafts, and lots more. Plus, it's only on English Wikipedia so you're not going to get much bang for your buck working on implementing some kind of suggested content via Wikidata. We should put this idea in the list of future possible enhancements at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Draft_namespace ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias
On 23 January 2014 15:12, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box would be the main attraction; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have to do is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an infobox with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ... low-tech ;-) Indeed - but we have to work with what we have. Perhaps we could concentrate on one very narrow subject, and its single corresponding infobox, as a pilot? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias
On 23 January 2014 15:42, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On 23 January 2014 15:12, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box would be the main attraction; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have to do is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an infobox with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ... low-tech ;-) Indeed - but we have to work with what we have. Perhaps we could concentrate on one very narrow subject, and its single corresponding infobox, as a pilot? I suggest that this discussion should be on the various projects that might be affected, particularly as different projects have very different ideas about whether the use of Wikidata for anything more than language links is acceptable. Many projects do not permit bulk bot creation of content, and this proposal is a close parallel. Further, content that isn't editable on the project on which it is hosted is probably not a very effective way to persuade people to turn it into an actual page. Trialing the process on some small projects that actively volunteer to participate would be a first step. Risker/Anne ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias
Hoi,
The mail I send is meant to be a warning in advance. If you are interested
in the Reasonator, it is in continuous development and information is
provided on an almost daily basis. When you have read it, you may
understand the potential it has. It will help you understand why it can
have a place as a stand in for an article in a Wikipedia and also why it
can beat the quality of information of most stubs.
There are many ways to skin a cat. The most obvious one is to add a
{{Reasonator}} template as a place holder in a Wikipedia. Another is to
capture a not found or a red link and insert Reasonator info. What I am
trying to do is to give a sense of direction. I am not indicating how it
will be done for sure.
When the English Wikipedia community makes a decision, it is what the
English Wikipedia community thinks best for itself. No problem in that. It
would only become a problem when it is inferred to be a decision for every
Wikipedia community.
The he Media Viewer is very similar to the situation at hand with Wikidata
and Reasonator. Wikidata data can be used on every Wikipedia and to some
extend this is done on many if not most Wikipedias (including en.wp). Like
with Media, it can be confusing that the information is actually not on
that local project. It is also not that obvious that Wikidata is not
necessarily interested in the policies that are dreamt up locally. The
alternative is NOT having central storage of images or NOT having central
data storage. Both are not really an option.
I like the fact that you come up with some suggestions however, your
proposal does not consider disambiguation. At this stage we are improving
the information that is provided by Reasonator; the latest iteration has
de-cluttered complicated pages like the one for Shakespeare a lot while
adding to the information that is made available.
Quality information is provided by the Reasonator, the biggest problem I
see is that we do not have info-boxes of high quality available when an
article is being written.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 21 January 2014 20:07, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org wrote:
Can you explain how such a {{Reasonator}} template would actually work. You
say that it would be a stand-in until the article was actually written, but
how would it know when the article is actually written? Is there a way to
access the target article's state via Lua?
From a community perspective, linking to external sites from body content
is normally frowned upon (on en.wiki at least), even if the link is to a
sister project. There are two main reasons for this:
1. It discourages the creation of new articles via redlinks
2. It can be confusing for readers to be sent to other sites while surfing
Wikipedia content. (This is one of reasons why the WMF Multimedia team has
been developing the Media Viewer.)
My suggestion would be to leave the redlinks intact, but to provide a
pop-up when hovering over the redlinks (similar to Navigation pop-ups (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation_popups)). This
pop-up could provide a small set of core data (via an ajax request) and
also a link to the full Reasonator page. I would probably implement this as
a gadget first and do a few design iterations based on user-feedback before
proposing it as something for readers.
Ryan Kaldari
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Magnus Manske
magnusman...@googlemail.com
wrote:
On a technical note, Reasonator is pure JavaScript, so should be easily
portable, even to a Wikipedia:Reasonator.js page (or several pages, with
support JS).
git here:
https://bitbucket.org/magnusmanske/reasonator
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Lane rlan...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Gerard Meijssen
gerard.meijs...@gmail.comwrote:
Hoi,
At this moment Wikipedia red links provide no information
whatsoever.
This is not cool.
In Wikidata we often have labels for the missing (=red link)
articles.
We
can and do provide information from Wikidata in a reasonable way that
is
informative in the Reasonator. We also provide additional search
information on many Wikipedias.
In the Reasonator we have now implemented red lines [1]. They
indicate
when a label does not exist in the primary language that is in use.
What we are considering is creating a template {{Reasonator}} that
will
present information based on what is available in Wikidata. Such a
template
would be a stand in until an article is actually written. What we
would
provide is information that is presented in the same way as we
provide
it
as this moment in time [2]
This may open up a box of worms; Reasonator is NOT using any caching.
There
may be lots of other reasons why you might think this proposal is
evil.
All
the evil that is technical has some merit but, you have to consider
that
the other side of the
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Gerard Meijssen
gerard.meijs...@gmail.comwrote:
Hoi,
At this moment Wikipedia red links provide no information whatsoever.
This is not cool.
In Wikidata we often have labels for the missing (=red link) articles. We
can and do provide information from Wikidata in a reasonable way that is
informative in the Reasonator. We also provide additional search
information on many Wikipedias.
In the Reasonator we have now implemented red lines [1]. They indicate
when a label does not exist in the primary language that is in use.
What we are considering is creating a template {{Reasonator}} that will
present information based on what is available in Wikidata. Such a template
would be a stand in until an article is actually written. What we would
provide is information that is presented in the same way as we provide it
as this moment in time [2]
This may open up a box of worms; Reasonator is NOT using any caching. There
may be lots of other reasons why you might think this proposal is evil. All
the evil that is technical has some merit but, you have to consider that
the other side of the equation is that we are not sharing in the sum of
all knowledge even when we have much of the missing requested information
available to us.
One saving (technical) grace, Reasonator loads round about as quickly as
WIkidata does.
As this is advance warning, I hope that you can help with the issues that
will come about. I hope that you will consider the impact this will have on
our traffic and measure to what extend it grows our data.
The Reasonator pages will not show up prettily on mobile phones .. so does
Wikidata by the way. It does not consider Wikipedia zero. There may be more
issues that may require attention. But again, it beats not serving the
information that we have to those that are requesting it.
I have a strong feeling you're going to bring labs to its knees.
Sending editors to labs is one thing, but you're proposing sending readers
to labs, to a service that isn't cached.
If reasonator is something we want to support for something like this,
maybe we should consider turning it into a production service?
- Ryan
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias
On a technical note, Reasonator is pure JavaScript, so should be easily
portable, even to a Wikipedia:Reasonator.js page (or several pages, with
support JS).
git here:
https://bitbucket.org/magnusmanske/reasonator
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Lane rlan...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Gerard Meijssen
gerard.meijs...@gmail.comwrote:
Hoi,
At this moment Wikipedia red links provide no information whatsoever.
This is not cool.
In Wikidata we often have labels for the missing (=red link) articles. We
can and do provide information from Wikidata in a reasonable way that is
informative in the Reasonator. We also provide additional search
information on many Wikipedias.
In the Reasonator we have now implemented red lines [1]. They indicate
when a label does not exist in the primary language that is in use.
What we are considering is creating a template {{Reasonator}} that will
present information based on what is available in Wikidata. Such a
template
would be a stand in until an article is actually written. What we would
provide is information that is presented in the same way as we provide it
as this moment in time [2]
This may open up a box of worms; Reasonator is NOT using any caching.
There
may be lots of other reasons why you might think this proposal is evil.
All
the evil that is technical has some merit but, you have to consider that
the other side of the equation is that we are not sharing in the sum of
all knowledge even when we have much of the missing requested
information
available to us.
One saving (technical) grace, Reasonator loads round about as quickly as
WIkidata does.
As this is advance warning, I hope that you can help with the issues that
will come about. I hope that you will consider the impact this will have
on
our traffic and measure to what extend it grows our data.
The Reasonator pages will not show up prettily on mobile phones .. so
does
Wikidata by the way. It does not consider Wikipedia zero. There may be
more
issues that may require attention. But again, it beats not serving the
information that we have to those that are requesting it.
I have a strong feeling you're going to bring labs to its knees.
Sending editors to labs is one thing, but you're proposing sending readers
to labs, to a service that isn't cached.
If reasonator is something we want to support for something like this,
maybe we should consider turning it into a production service?
- Ryan
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias
Hoi,
Given that Reasonator requests services through Javascript, it will likely
piggy back on the Wikidata infrastructure. As caching is as far as I know
not implemented on Wikidata, it will benefit everyone when caching for
Wikidata gets on the WMF-Ops agenda.
Until now Wikidata is considered to be irrelevant from an end-user / page
view perspective [1]. This is obviously no longer true.
Again, our aim is to share in the sum of all knowledge. Wikidata has
information that is ours to share. It is our prime objective to ensure that
this is done, it is our challenge to do it in an optimal fashion.
Thanks,
GerardM
[1] http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikispecial/EN/TablesWikipediaWIKIDATA.htm
On 21 January 2014 18:13, Ryan Lane rlan...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Gerard Meijssen
gerard.meijs...@gmail.comwrote:
Hoi,
At this moment Wikipedia red links provide no information whatsoever.
This is not cool.
In Wikidata we often have labels for the missing (=red link) articles. We
can and do provide information from Wikidata in a reasonable way that is
informative in the Reasonator. We also provide additional search
information on many Wikipedias.
In the Reasonator we have now implemented red lines [1]. They indicate
when a label does not exist in the primary language that is in use.
What we are considering is creating a template {{Reasonator}} that will
present information based on what is available in Wikidata. Such a
template
would be a stand in until an article is actually written. What we would
provide is information that is presented in the same way as we provide it
as this moment in time [2]
This may open up a box of worms; Reasonator is NOT using any caching.
There
may be lots of other reasons why you might think this proposal is evil.
All
the evil that is technical has some merit but, you have to consider that
the other side of the equation is that we are not sharing in the sum of
all knowledge even when we have much of the missing requested
information
available to us.
One saving (technical) grace, Reasonator loads round about as quickly as
WIkidata does.
As this is advance warning, I hope that you can help with the issues that
will come about. I hope that you will consider the impact this will have
on
our traffic and measure to what extend it grows our data.
The Reasonator pages will not show up prettily on mobile phones .. so
does
Wikidata by the way. It does not consider Wikipedia zero. There may be
more
issues that may require attention. But again, it beats not serving the
information that we have to those that are requesting it.
I have a strong feeling you're going to bring labs to its knees.
Sending editors to labs is one thing, but you're proposing sending readers
to labs, to a service that isn't cached.
If reasonator is something we want to support for something like this,
maybe we should consider turning it into a production service?
- Ryan
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias
Can you explain how such a {{Reasonator}} template would actually work. You
say that it would be a stand-in until the article was actually written, but
how would it know when the article is actually written? Is there a way to
access the target article's state via Lua?
From a community perspective, linking to external sites from body content
is normally frowned upon (on en.wiki at least), even if the link is to a
sister project. There are two main reasons for this:
1. It discourages the creation of new articles via redlinks
2. It can be confusing for readers to be sent to other sites while surfing
Wikipedia content. (This is one of reasons why the WMF Multimedia team has
been developing the Media Viewer.)
My suggestion would be to leave the redlinks intact, but to provide a
pop-up when hovering over the redlinks (similar to Navigation pop-ups (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation_popups)). This
pop-up could provide a small set of core data (via an ajax request) and
also a link to the full Reasonator page. I would probably implement this as
a gadget first and do a few design iterations based on user-feedback before
proposing it as something for readers.
Ryan Kaldari
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com
wrote:
On a technical note, Reasonator is pure JavaScript, so should be easily
portable, even to a Wikipedia:Reasonator.js page (or several pages, with
support JS).
git here:
https://bitbucket.org/magnusmanske/reasonator
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Lane rlan...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Gerard Meijssen
gerard.meijs...@gmail.comwrote:
Hoi,
At this moment Wikipedia red links provide no information whatsoever.
This is not cool.
In Wikidata we often have labels for the missing (=red link) articles.
We
can and do provide information from Wikidata in a reasonable way that
is
informative in the Reasonator. We also provide additional search
information on many Wikipedias.
In the Reasonator we have now implemented red lines [1]. They
indicate
when a label does not exist in the primary language that is in use.
What we are considering is creating a template {{Reasonator}} that will
present information based on what is available in Wikidata. Such a
template
would be a stand in until an article is actually written. What we would
provide is information that is presented in the same way as we provide
it
as this moment in time [2]
This may open up a box of worms; Reasonator is NOT using any caching.
There
may be lots of other reasons why you might think this proposal is evil.
All
the evil that is technical has some merit but, you have to consider
that
the other side of the equation is that we are not sharing in the sum
of
all knowledge even when we have much of the missing requested
information
available to us.
One saving (technical) grace, Reasonator loads round about as quickly
as
WIkidata does.
As this is advance warning, I hope that you can help with the issues
that
will come about. I hope that you will consider the impact this will
have
on
our traffic and measure to what extend it grows our data.
The Reasonator pages will not show up prettily on mobile phones .. so
does
Wikidata by the way. It does not consider Wikipedia zero. There may be
more
issues that may require attention. But again, it beats not serving the
information that we have to those that are requesting it.
I have a strong feeling you're going to bring labs to its knees.
Sending editors to labs is one thing, but you're proposing sending
readers
to labs, to a service that isn't cached.
If reasonator is something we want to support for something like this,
maybe we should consider turning it into a production service?
- Ryan
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