Re: [Wikitech-l] showing videos and images in modal viewers within articles

[Michael Dale]

On 05/30/2013 06:28 PM, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
OK, I decided to be slightly bold. I changed the modal video threshold 
on en.wiki from 200px to 800px. This means all video thumbnails that 
are 800px or smaller will open a modal player when you click on the 
thumbnail. If there are no complaints from people, we can switch the 
modal behavior to just be the default everywhere. Try it out and let 
me know what you think:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain#Presentation 



Ryan Kaldari


I would lean towards more like < 400 px. There are probably pages that 
have large videos already, maybe don't need to be re-modal-ized ?


I agree with Erik we should autoplay after you click on the "play" 
button on a modal. https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/66551


Note in IOS, modal popups require an additional click to play if loading 
anything asyncronusly. We have done work in the kaltura library to be 
smart capturing the click gesture in thumbnail embeds [1]. In mediaWiki 
we may need to do something similar if we async load the player library.

http://player.kaltura.com/docs/thumb

But the extra click is the least of our iOS video issues, for the time 
being :(


--michael




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Re: [Wikitech-l] showing videos and images in modal viewers within articles

[Antoine Musso]

Le 31/05/13 00:28, Ryan Kaldari a écrit :
> 
> OK, I decided to be slightly bold. I changed the modal video threshold
> on en.wiki from 200px to 800px. This means all video thumbnails that are
> 800px or smaller will open a modal player when you click on the
> thumbnail. If there are no complaints from people, we can switch the
> modal behavior to just be the default everywhere. Try it out and let me
> know what you think:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain#Presentation

That is a huge improvement to the user experience (tm © ..).  It would
be great to have the video to start playing whenever it expands.  Might
want to select a small video whenever the browser windows size is small
(I use a low resolution).

Overall, nice. Thanks!

-- 
Antoine "hashar" Musso


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Re: [Wikitech-l] showing videos and images in modal viewers within articles

[Fabrice Florin]

Hey Kaldari,

Thanks so much for yesterday's code fix to display videos in a modal viewer 
when you click on article thumbnails!

This was long overdue and makes a huge difference already, as shown in this 
example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain

I agree with Erik that the ideal behavior would be to play the video 
immediately after you click on the thumbnail, without requiring a second click 
to play in modal view.

Now, is there any chance we could do something similar for still photos? As a 
longtime photographer, it drives me nuts that clicking on a thumbnail article 
takes you to this overwhelming page on Commons, with scary walls of text all 
around the image. (That's one of the reasons I haven't yet migrated any of my 
20k Flickr photos to Commons, BTW.)

Most modern web sites nowadays just show you the photo in full screen, with 
only a few icons around it, so you can experience the image as it was intended 
to be seen (typically in a black modal panel, to make it pop up more). You 
still have the option to reveal all the text details if you want them, but they 
are not forced on you as we do today on Wikipedia and Commons.

Hopefully, our new multimedia team will be able to join forces with the design 
team to tackle some of these commonsense UI improvements, once we get up to 
speed this summer.

Thanks again for this welcome prelude :)


Fabrice


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Fabrice Florin
Product Manager, Editor Engagement
Wikimedia Foundation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fabrice_Florin_(WMF)


On May 30, 2013, at 1:35 AM, wikitech-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
> 
> From: Erik Moeller 
> Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] showing videos and images in modal viewers within 
> articles
> Date: May 29, 2013 9:21:48 PM PDT
> To: Ryan Kaldari 
> Cc: Wikimedia developers 
> Reply-To: Wikimedia developers 
> 
> 
> Yes, better support for display of images through a modal viewer would
> be great. I'm not sure a "modal" parameter that has to be explicitly
> set for files is the best approach - I would recommend optimizing the
> default experience when a user clicks an image or video. It's not
> clear that the current behavior based on a pixel threshold is actually
> desirable as the default behavior. (On a side note, the TMH behavior
> should be improved to actually play the video immediately, not require
> a second click to play in modal view.)
> 
> Magnus Manske explored an alternative approach pretty extensively in
> response to the October 2011 Coding Challenge, which is worth taking a
> look at:
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Magnus_Manske/wikipic
> 
> Cheers,
> Erik
> 
> 
> From: Brion Vibber 
> Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] showing videos and images in modal viewers within 
> articles
> Date: May 30, 2013 12:42:00 AM PDT
> To: Wikimedia developers 
> Cc: Erik Moeller 
> Reply-To: Wikimedia developers 
> 
> 
> I tend to agree that a light box or other modalish zoom should become the
> default behavior.
> 
> -- brion
> On May 30, 2013 5:50 AM, "Ryan Kaldari"  wrote:
> 
>> For years, I have weeped and wailed about people adding complicated maps
>> and diagrams as 220px thumbnail images to Wikipedia articles. These sort of
>> images are virtually useless within an article unless they are displayed at
>> relatively large sizes. Unfortunately, including them at large sizes
>> creates a whole new set of problems. Namely, large images mess up the
>> formatting of the page and cause headers, edit links, and other images to
>> get jumbled around into strange places (or even overlapping each other on
>> occasion), especially for people on tablets or other small screens. The
>> problem is even worse for videos. Who wants to watch a hi-res video in a
>> tiny 220px inline viewer? If there are subtitles, you can't even read them.
>> But should we instead include them as giant 1280px players within the
>> article? That seems like it would be obnoxious.
>> 
>> What if instead we could mark such complicated images and high-res videos
>> to be shown in modal viewers when the user clicks on them? For example:
>> [[File:Highres-video1.webm|**thumb|right|modal|A high res video]]. When
>> you clicked on the thumbnail, instead of going to Commons, a modal viewer
>> would overlay across the screen and let you view the video/image at high
>> resolution (complete with a link to Commons and the attribution
>> information). Believe it or not, this capability already exists for videos
>> on Wikipedia, but it's basically a hidden feature of TimedMediaHandler. If
>> you include a video in a page and set the size as 200px or less, it
>> activates the modal behavior. U

Re: [Wikitech-l] showing videos and images in modal viewers within articles

[Ryan Kaldari]

On 5/30/13 1:34 AM, Antoine Musso wrote:

Le 30/05/13 09:46, Ryan Kaldari a écrit :

Does anyone think it would be a bad idea to just make modal viewing the
default for thumbnailed videos?

Be bold!  To play it safe, you can make the feature protected with a
global feature that we will slowly enable on all wiki and eventually
phase out later on :-]   This way the code will land everywhere and we
can play test it on beta then on commons ...


OK, I decided to be slightly bold. I changed the modal video threshold 
on en.wiki from 200px to 800px. This means all video thumbnails that are 
800px or smaller will open a modal player when you click on the 
thumbnail. If there are no complaints from people, we can switch the 
modal behavior to just be the default everywhere. Try it out and let me 
know what you think:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain#Presentation

Ryan Kaldari

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Re: [Wikitech-l] showing videos and images in modal viewers within articles

[Mathieu Stumpf]

Le 2013-05-30 06:21, Erik Moeller a écrit :
Yes, better support for display of images through a modal viewer 
would

be great. I'm not sure a "modal" parameter that has to be explicitly
set for files is the best approach - I would recommend optimizing the
default experience when a user clicks an image or video. It's not
clear that the current behavior based on a pixel threshold is 
actually

desirable as the default behavior. (On a side note, the TMH behavior
should be improved to actually play the video immediately, not 
require

a second click to play in modal view.)


You'll probably need to pop-up a menu on mouse over the media, so user 
may open the modal window, open the commons page, and so on. Also you 
may want to integrate a next/previous media file in your modal.




Magnus Manske explored an alternative approach pretty extensively in
response to the October 2011 Coding Challenge, which is worth taking 
a

look at:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Magnus_Manske/wikipic


Oh, well, I suppose he already wrote all this obvious things then :P



Cheers,
Erik

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Association Culture-Libre
http://www.culture-libre.org/

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Re: [Wikitech-l] showing videos and images in modal viewers within articles

[Petr Onderka]

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:21 PM, billinghurst wrote:

> > (On a side note, the TMH behavior should be improved to actually play
> the video
> > immediately, not require a second click to play in modal view.)
>
> Please NO, if there has to be anything please make it an preference that
> users can toggle, but have the default as OFF.  There is more than
> Wikipedia here; there are some of us who don't want to be playing videos
> that others have selected for us.
>

I think you might have misunderstood.

As far as I understand it, the current behavior is:
Click 1 on thumbnail -> modal view opens
Click 2 on the video in modal view -> video starts playing

And the proposed change is to:
Click 1 on thumbnail -> modal window opens and starts playing

This is not about playing videos as soon as a page loads.

Petr Onderka
[[en:User:Svick]]
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Re: [Wikitech-l] showing videos and images in modal viewers within articles

[billinghurst]

> (On a side note, the TMH behavior should be improved to actually play
the video
> immediately, not require a second click to play in modal view.)

Please NO, if there has to be anything please make it an preference that
users can toggle, but have the default as OFF.  There is more than
Wikipedia here; there are some of us who don't want to be playing videos
that others have selected for us.

Regards, Billinghurst

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Re: [Wikitech-l] showing videos and images in modal viewers within articles

[Antoine Musso]

Le 30/05/13 09:46, Ryan Kaldari a écrit :
> Does anyone think it would be a bad idea to just make modal viewing the
> default for thumbnailed videos?

Be bold!  To play it safe, you can make the feature protected with a
global feature that we will slowly enable on all wiki and eventually
phase out later on :-]   This way the code will land everywhere and we
can play test it on beta then on commons ...

-- 
Antoine "hashar" Musso
"did I say: 'be bold' ?"


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Re: [Wikitech-l] showing videos and images in modal viewers within articles

[Antoine Musso]

Le 30/05/13 05:49, Ryan Kaldari a écrit :
> When you clicked on the thumbnail, instead of going to Commons, a modal
> viewer would overlay across the screen and let you view the video/image
> at high resolution


I discovered yesterday that Commons as such a tool to browse pictures in
a category.  Whenever you browse a category page such as:
  https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Hackathons

There is a Green icon which when hovered will expand to 'show slideshow'
and when clicked replace the view with a slideshow view like Picassa /
Flickr ...

It would be nice to have that build in MediaWiki.  Maybe there is a well
supported JQuery plugin that does just that and we could ship in core?


-- 
Antoine "hashar" Musso


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Re: [Wikitech-l] showing videos and images in modal viewers within articles

[Ryan Kaldari]

On 5/29/13 9:21 PM, Erik Moeller wrote:

Yes, better support for display of images through a modal viewer would
be great. I'm not sure a "modal" parameter that has to be explicitly
set for files is the best approach - I would recommend optimizing the
default experience when a user clicks an image or video. It's not
clear that the current behavior based on a pixel threshold is actually
desirable as the default behavior. (On a side note, the TMH behavior
should be improved to actually play the video immediately, not require
a second click to play in modal view.)


Does anyone think it would be a bad idea to just make modal viewing the 
default for thumbnailed videos?


Ryan Kaldari

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Re: [Wikitech-l] showing videos and images in modal viewers within articles

[Brion Vibber]

I tend to agree that a light box or other modalish zoom should become the
default behavior.

-- brion
On May 30, 2013 5:50 AM, "Ryan Kaldari"  wrote:

> For years, I have weeped and wailed about people adding complicated maps
> and diagrams as 220px thumbnail images to Wikipedia articles. These sort of
> images are virtually useless within an article unless they are displayed at
> relatively large sizes. Unfortunately, including them at large sizes
> creates a whole new set of problems. Namely, large images mess up the
> formatting of the page and cause headers, edit links, and other images to
> get jumbled around into strange places (or even overlapping each other on
> occasion), especially for people on tablets or other small screens. The
> problem is even worse for videos. Who wants to watch a hi-res video in a
> tiny 220px inline viewer? If there are subtitles, you can't even read them.
> But should we instead include them as giant 1280px players within the
> article? That seems like it would be obnoxious.
>
> What if instead we could mark such complicated images and high-res videos
> to be shown in modal viewers when the user clicks on them? For example:
> [[File:Highres-video1.webm|**thumb|right|modal|A high res video]]. When
> you clicked on the thumbnail, instead of going to Commons, a modal viewer
> would overlay across the screen and let you view the video/image at high
> resolution (complete with a link to Commons and the attribution
> information). Believe it or not, this capability already exists for videos
> on Wikipedia, but it's basically a hidden feature of TimedMediaHandler. If
> you include a video in a page and set the size as 200px or less, it
> activates the modal behavior. Unfortunately, the default size for videos is
> 220px (as of 2010) so you will almost never see this behavior on a real
> article. If you want to see it, go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**
> American_Sign_Language#**Variationand
>  click on one of the videos. Compare that with the video viewing
> experience at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Congenital_insensitivity_to_
> **pain .
> It's a world of difference. Now imagine that same modal behavior at
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Cathedral_Peak_Granodiorite#**
> Geological_overviewand
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Battle_of_Jutland
> .
>
> Such an idea would be relatively trivial to implement. The steps would be:
> 1. Add support for a 'modal' param to the [[File:]] handler (
> https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/**r/#/c/66062/
> )
> 2. Add support for the 'modal' param to TimedMediaHandler (
> https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/**r/#/c/66063/
> )
> 3. Add support for the 'modal' param to images via some core JS module
> (not done yet)
>
> As you can see, I've already gotten started on adding this feature for
> videos via TimedMediaHandler, but I haven't done anything for images yet. I
> would like to hear people's thoughts on this potential feature and how it
> could be best implemented for images before doing anything else with it.
> What are your thoughts, concerns, ideas?
>
> Ryan Kaldari
>
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] showing videos and images in modal viewers within articles

[Erik Moeller]

Yes, better support for display of images through a modal viewer would
be great. I'm not sure a "modal" parameter that has to be explicitly
set for files is the best approach - I would recommend optimizing the
default experience when a user clicks an image or video. It's not
clear that the current behavior based on a pixel threshold is actually
desirable as the default behavior. (On a side note, the TMH behavior
should be improved to actually play the video immediately, not require
a second click to play in modal view.)

Magnus Manske explored an alternative approach pretty extensively in
response to the October 2011 Coding Challenge, which is worth taking a
look at:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Magnus_Manske/wikipic

Cheers,
Erik

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[Wikitech-l] showing videos and images in modal viewers within articles

[Ryan Kaldari]

For years, I have weeped and wailed about people adding complicated maps 
and diagrams as 220px thumbnail images to Wikipedia articles. These sort 
of images are virtually useless within an article unless they are 
displayed at relatively large sizes. Unfortunately, including them at 
large sizes creates a whole new set of problems. Namely, large images 
mess up the formatting of the page and cause headers, edit links, and 
other images to get jumbled around into strange places (or even 
overlapping each other on occasion), especially for people on tablets or 
other small screens. The problem is even worse for videos. Who wants to 
watch a hi-res video in a tiny 220px inline viewer? If there are 
subtitles, you can't even read them. But should we instead include them 
as giant 1280px players within the article? That seems like it would be 
obnoxious.


What if instead we could mark such complicated images and high-res 
videos to be shown in modal viewers when the user clicks on them? For 
example: [[File:Highres-video1.webm|thumb|right|modal|A high res 
video]]. When you clicked on the thumbnail, instead of going to Commons, 
a modal viewer would overlay across the screen and let you view the 
video/image at high resolution (complete with a link to Commons and the 
attribution information). Believe it or not, this capability already 
exists for videos on Wikipedia, but it's basically a hidden feature of 
TimedMediaHandler. If you include a video in a page and set the size as 
200px or less, it activates the modal behavior. Unfortunately, the 
default size for videos is 220px (as of 2010) so you will almost never 
see this behavior on a real article. If you want to see it, go to 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Sign_Language#Variation and click 
on one of the videos. Compare that with the video viewing experience at 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain. It's a 
world of difference. Now imagine that same modal behavior at 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_Peak_Granodiorite#Geological_overview 
and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jutland.


Such an idea would be relatively trivial to implement. The steps would be:
1. Add support for a 'modal' param to the [[File:]] handler 
(https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/66062/)
2. Add support for the 'modal' param to TimedMediaHandler 
(https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/66063/)
3. Add support for the 'modal' param to images via some core JS module 
(not done yet)


As you can see, I've already gotten started on adding this feature for 
videos via TimedMediaHandler, but I haven't done anything for images 
yet. I would like to hear people's thoughts on this potential feature 
and how it could be best implemented for images before doing anything 
else with it. What are your thoughts, concerns, ideas?


Ryan Kaldari


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