On 7/15/2016 11:28 PM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
First of all, it sounds like you envision that everyone will solely be using the
D supplied allocators, and no one will be writing their own.
There won't be anything stopping anyone from writing their own allocators, just
like there's nothing stopp
On 7/15/2016 11:12 PM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
So, would you say you shouldn't use D unless all of your code is @safe? Most?
Some? None?
The idea is to minimize the use of @system.
If you've got a large team and large codebase, the use of @system should merit
special attention in code reviews,
On 7/15/2016 11:04 PM, Andrew Godfrey wrote:
Ok. Well, when you and Shachar were arguing, it still doesn't seem like Shachar
was talking about @safe code specifically. I can't wrap my mind around wanting a
"logical const" feature usable in @safe context; you could already use @system
for those ca
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 09:29:27 UTC, Kagamin wrote:
On Thursday, 14 July 2016 at 20:12:13 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad
wrote:
And please note that this horrible excuse is propagate in the
C++ community too. Time and time again people claim that C++
is complex, but it has to be like that in orde
On 16/07/16 02:04, Walter Bright wrote:
On 7/15/2016 1:58 PM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
Do enlighten me how to use intrusive reference counting in D. I am quite
interested in the answer.
Andrei and I are working on it. As he's expressed elsewhere, the idea is
to maintain the reference count in me
On 16/07/16 07:24, Walter Bright wrote:
Since casting away immutable/const is allowed in @system code, yes, I am
referring to @safe code here.
That is something without which none of your arguments made sense to me.
Thank you for your clarification.
So, would you say you shouldn't use D un
On Saturday, 16 July 2016 at 04:24:39 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 7/15/2016 8:25 PM, Andrew Godfrey wrote:
I agree and I like mechanically checkable things. But I also
like compiler
features that mix mechanical checking with the ability to
attest to something
that can't be mechanically checked
On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 10:33:05PM -0700, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On 7/15/2016 10:09 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> > Even though Linux sucks too, at least it doesn't force-install
> > newer, more broken versions of itself without you asking for it.
>
> You have to go i
On 7/15/2016 10:09 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
Even though Linux sucks too, at least it doesn't force-install
newer, more broken versions of itself without you asking for it.
You have to go into the windows update menu and select the only install critical
updates.
I upgraded my l
On 7/15/2016 9:30 PM, Joakim wrote:
As for printing, you're still printing? I think I've printed maybe three or
four times in the last decade, but then I almost never read anything on paper
during that time either.
Sometimes I have to sign a document, scan it, and email it back. An inevitable
On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 04:30:31AM +, Joakim via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 05:10:29 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> > I'm excluding the pain of Windows reinstall, as it took 14 hours of
> > sitting there blankly "checking for updates". I wonder what it was
> > possibly doing
On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 05:02:55PM -0700, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On 7/15/2016 3:43 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> > One of the many reasons I gave up on Windows many years ago, and
> > never looked back. ;-)
>
> I have my grump list for Linux, too. Tried to install it
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 05:10:29 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
I'm excluding the pain of Windows reinstall, as it took 14
hours of sitting there blankly "checking for updates". I wonder
what it was possibly doing that took 14 hours (the disk was
fresh, there was nothing to transmit to the NSA).
On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 10:55:06PM +, Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 22:48:14 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> > For a time at Symantec I pushed through making the compiler runnable
> > directly off of the CD without requiring an installation.
>
> Fun fact: this
On 7/15/2016 8:25 PM, Andrew Godfrey wrote:
I agree and I like mechanically checkable things. But I also like compiler
features that mix mechanical checking with the ability to attest to something
that can't be mechanically checked. Like the @system attribute. So this line of
reasoning feels inco
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 23:00:45 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 7/15/2016 1:48 PM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
On 15/07/16 22:50, Walter Bright wrote:
You can do logical const in D just like in C++, and get those
performance gains. You just can't call it "const". But you
can call it
/*logical_co
On 7/15/2016 3:55 PM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 22:48:14 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
For a time at Symantec I pushed through making the compiler runnable directly
off of the CD without requiring an installation.
Fun fact: this was basically THE killer feature of the Digital
On 7/15/2016 3:43 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
One of the many reasons I gave up on Windows many years ago, and never
looked back. ;-)
I have my grump list for Linux, too. Tried to install it once on an HP laptop,
and the installer crashed with some long error message in hex. Like a
On 7/15/2016 1:58 PM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
Do enlighten me how to use intrusive reference counting in D. I am quite
interested in the answer.
Andrei and I are working on it. As he's expressed elsewhere, the idea is to
maintain the reference count in memory that is outside the type system. It
On 7/15/2016 1:58 PM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
I think your argument there is completely destroyed :-)
I do not understand the joy both you and Andrei express when you think you have
"won" an "argument". This gives me the feeling that I'm not part of a process
designed to make the language better,
On 7/15/2016 1:48 PM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
On 15/07/16 22:50, Walter Bright wrote:
You can do logical const in D just like in C++, and get those
performance gains. You just can't call it "const". But you can call it
/*logical_const*/ and get the same result.
No, you can't. The fact that the
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 22:48:14 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
For a time at Symantec I pushed through making the compiler
runnable directly off of the CD without requiring an
installation.
Fun fact: this was basically THE killer feature of the Digital
Mars compiler for me way back when. I sta
On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 03:44:20PM -0700, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On 7/15/2016 12:16 PM, Meta wrote:
> > On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 05:10:29 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> > > I'm excluding the pain of Windows reinstall, as it took 14 hours
> > > of sitting there blankly "checking for
On 7/15/2016 12:46 PM, Jack Stouffer wrote:
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 05:10:29 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
The absolutely easiest reinstall was dmd - I just copied the directory over
from the backup - but I suppose handing out awards to ourselves is a bit
narcissistic.
Always nice to dog food e
On 7/15/2016 12:16 PM, Meta wrote:
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 05:10:29 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
I'm excluding the pain of Windows reinstall, as it took 14 hours of sitting
there blankly "checking for updates". I wonder what it was possibly doing that
took 14 hours (the disk was fresh, there was
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 21:24:12 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
On 07/15/2016 04:58 PM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
I do not understand the joy both you and Andrei express when
you think
you have "won" an "argument". This gives me the feeling that
I'm not
part of a process designed to make the l
On 07/15/2016 03:42 PM, tcak wrote:
If it is about speed, we can still use a public shared memory for that
purpose. So, statistical messages can be written in shared memory, and
other program reads from that to get those messages. A suitable
communication protocol can be implemented in way. At th
On 07/15/2016 04:58 PM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
I do not understand the joy both you and Andrei express when you think
you have "won" an "argument". This gives me the feeling that I'm not
part of a process designed to make the language better, but rather part
of an argument meant to prove to me th
On 07/14/2016 09:18 PM, Basile B. wrote:
> On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 00:17:35 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOErZuzZpS8
>>>
>>
>> OK, this is really going off off topic but thank you for posting that.
>> I've discovered Arthur Brown (you? ;) ). An "under-appreciated
On 15/07/16 22:06, Walter Bright wrote:
2. memory allocation - D programmers can use any of C++'s allocation
methods
Do enlighten me how to use intrusive reference counting in D. I am quite
interested in the answer. Or, for that matter, tracking lifetime through
an external linked list with a
On 15/07/16 22:50, Walter Bright wrote:
You can do logical const in D just like in C++, and get those
performance gains. You just can't call it "const". But you can call it
/*logical_const*/ and get the same result.
No, you can't. The fact that the compiler enforces the no const to
mutable tr
On Thursday, 14 July 2016 at 09:36:17 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
Java does basically the same thing (though they take it even
farther, since they only allow one, public class per module),
and IIRC, a number of other languages do as well (haskell does
from what I recall, and python might; I do
On 7/15/2016 12:55 PM, Jack Stouffer wrote:
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 19:06:15 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
4. making use of asserts to provide information to the optimizer
Do dmd/ldc/gdc actually do this?
dmd doesn't. I don't know about other compilers.
The point is it's possible because C++
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 18:01:43 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Read or write.
For const(T) , same thing, but limited to write.
Thanks. Reworked:
"During and after mutating a memory location typed as
(unqualified) type T, no thread in the program (including the
current thread) is allowe
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 19:06:15 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
4. making use of asserts to provide information to the optimizer
Do dmd/ldc/gdc actually do this?
On 7/15/2016 7:43 AM, Andrew Godfrey wrote:
One example is if you make a class that has an internal cache of something.
Updating or invalidating that cache has no logical effect on the
externally-observable state of the class. So you should be able to modify the
cache even on a 'const' object.
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 05:10:29 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
The absolutely easiest reinstall was dmd - I just copied the
directory over from the backup - but I suppose handing out
awards to ourselves is a bit narcissistic.
Always nice to dog food every once and a while to confirm it
though.
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 17:04:35 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
On 07/15/2016 12:31 PM, tcak wrote:
Do you know about --profile=gc?
1. Never worked for me in a multithreaded program.
Could you please give it another look. Walter fixed it
relatively recently.
Hmm, I will check it out
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 19:22:41 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
On 2016-07-15 18:14, tcak wrote:
It is great to see memory usage on Xcode while running an iOS
app.
Have you tried to run a D application inside Xcode to get the
same information? Or is it not available due to the GC?
Never used
On 2016-07-15 18:14, tcak wrote:
It is great to see memory usage on Xcode while running an iOS app.
Have you tried to run a D application inside Xcode to get the same
information? Or is it not available due to the GC?
--
/Jacob Carlborg
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 05:10:29 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
I'm excluding the pain of Windows reinstall, as it took 14
hours of sitting there blankly "checking for updates". I wonder
what it was possibly doing that took 14 hours (the disk was
fresh, there was nothing to transmit to the NSA).
On 7/15/2016 3:25 AM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
On 15/07/16 13:13, Walter Bright wrote:
1. no protection against casting away const and changing it anyway
2. no protection against adding 'mutable' members and changing it anyway
3. only good for one level, no way to specify a data structure of
gene
On Fri, 2016-07-15 at 20:04 +0200, Jordi Sayol via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> El 15/07/16 a les 15:42, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d ha escrit:
> > However there is a PreDepends on multiarch-support. I am trying to
> > get
> > rid of this package but that means dmd, dcd, dfmt, dscanner, gtkd,
> > etc
I'm not having success trying to use the allocator API.
What am doing wrong here? (OS X, 64-bit)
void main()
{
import std.exception;
import std.experimental.allocator;
import std.experimental.allocator.building_blocks.region;
import std.stdio;
sta
On 07/15/2016 01:27 PM, deadalnix wrote:
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 14:45:41 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 07/14/2016 12:17 PM, Jesse Phillips wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 July 2016 at 05:15:09 UTC, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
C++ fully defines when it is okay to cast away constness, gives you
aids s
El 15/07/16 a les 15:42, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d ha escrit:
> However there is a PreDepends on multiarch-support. I am trying to get
> rid of this package but that means dmd, dcd, dfmt, dscanner, gtkd, etc.
> all have to go.
You are right. I'll remove it.
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 14:43:35 UTC, Andrew Godfrey wrote:
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 11:09:24 UTC, Patrick Schluter wrote:
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 10:25:16 UTC, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
I think the one that hurts the most is fixing "C++ fault" #3.
It means there are many scenarios in wh
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 14:45:41 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
On 07/14/2016 12:17 PM, Jesse Phillips wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 July 2016 at 05:15:09 UTC, Shachar Shemesh
wrote:
C++ fully defines when it is okay to cast away constness,
gives you
aids so that you know that that's what you are d
On 07/15/2016 12:31 PM, tcak wrote:
Do you know about --profile=gc?
1. Never worked for me in a multithreaded program.
Could you please give it another look. Walter fixed it relatively recently.
2. I am not able to retrieve that data on runtime by another application
to see close to real-ti
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 16:21:15 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote:
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 16:14:39 UTC, tcak wrote:
It is great to see memory usage on Xcode while running an iOS
app.
What I thought is that:
1. GC knows available heap memory locations and their length.
2. GC can detect what par
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 16:14:39 UTC, tcak wrote:
It is great to see memory usage on Xcode while running an iOS
app.
What I thought is that:
1. GC knows available heap memory locations and their length.
2. GC can detect what parts of heap is in use.
3. A program can create a file to write (
It is great to see memory usage on Xcode while running an iOS app.
What I thought is that:
1. GC knows available heap memory locations and their length.
2. GC can detect what parts of heap is in use.
3. A program can create a file to write (stdout, stderr, etc.)
So, when desired (e.g. use of a
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 15:35:37 UTC, Dicebot wrote:
One example is if you make a class that has an internal cache
of something. Updating or invalidating that cache has no
logical effect on the externally-observable state of the
class. So you should be able to modify the cache even on a
'c
On 07/15/2016 05:43 PM, Andrew Godfrey wrote:
> On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 11:09:24 UTC, Patrick Schluter wrote:
>> On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 10:25:16 UTC, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
>>>
>>> I think the one that hurts the most is fixing "C++ fault" #3. It
>>> means there are many scenarios in which I
On 07/14/2016 12:17 PM, Jesse Phillips wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 July 2016 at 05:15:09 UTC, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
C++ fully defines when it is okay to cast away constness, gives you
aids so that you know that that's what you are doing, and nothing
else, and gives you a method by which you can do it
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 11:09:24 UTC, Patrick Schluter wrote:
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 10:25:16 UTC, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
I think the one that hurts the most is fixing "C++ fault" #3.
It means there are many scenarios in which I could put const
in C++, and I simply can't in D, because
On Thu, 2016-07-14 at 20:54 +0200, Jordi Sayol via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> El 14/07/16 a les 17:13, Dicebot via Digitalmars-d ha escrit:
> > Very likely it has same packaging mistake as DMD in d-apt, listing
> > gcc-multilib dependencies as mandatory and not optional, even if
> > you are never going
https://wiki.dlang.org/Vision/2016H2
Safety and Memory Management
Safety and making the GC optional remain important concerns
through the end of this year. We are putting them together
because the GC alternatives we endorse must address safety.
Has there been any progress so far? Are there
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 05:10:29 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
I'm excluding the pain of Windows reinstall, as it took 14
hours of sitting there blankly "checking for updates". I wonder
what it was possibly doing that took 14 hours (the disk was
fresh, there was nothing to transmit to the NSA
On Friday, 15 July 2016 at 10:25:16 UTC, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
I think the one that hurts the most is fixing "C++ fault" #3.
It means there are many scenarios in which I could put const in
C++, and I simply can't in D, because something somewhere needs
to be mutable.
Then it is not const a
On 15/07/16 13:13, Walter Bright wrote:
1. no protection against casting away const and changing it anyway
2. no protection against adding 'mutable' members and changing it anyway
3. only good for one level, no way to specify a data structure of
generic type T as const
(and, sadly, not somethi
On 7/15/2016 2:34 AM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
Const is very far from meaningless in C++. It is an extremely valuable tool in
turning bugs into compile time errors. That is not something to think lightly of
Unfortunately, C++ const is little more than advisory:
1. no protection against casting a
On Thursday, 14 July 2016 at 13:24:51 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad
wrote:
You mean your process describes building prototypes only?
Yes?
You cannot easily iterate over the design of the core language
without creating a mess. You can iterate the design of
libraries and to some extent syntactical
On 15/07/16 02:06, Jesse Phillips wrote:
On Thursday, 14 July 2016 at 18:49:36 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
If what you wrote is UB (as it is in D), then the compiler can go
ahead and assign 5 to y.
In C++, the compiler has to reload x, because it may have changed.
Someone explained this t
On Thursday, 14 July 2016 at 14:46:50 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad
wrote:
The JVM is also a decent example of a core language that is
fairly stable. It as based on the StrongTalk VM.
AFAIK JVM has a design bug: can't reliably differentiate between
methods to invoke the right one.
On Thursday, 14 July 2016 at 20:12:13 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad
wrote:
And please note that this horrible excuse is propagate in the
C++ community too. Time and time again people claim that C++ is
complex, but it has to be like that in order to provide the
features it provides.
Not true for C+
On 7/14/2016 8:57 AM, Atila Neves wrote:
It's possible that someone introduced new unittests that aren't explicitly @safe
or @system, but with the exception of std.stream (because of imminent
deprecation) all phobos unittests are now explicity tagged. So now, if you want
to help make Phobos @safe
67 matches
Mail list logo
