Do not top post, is rude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting
Peter Weber wrote:
> You seem to think that the discussion is around you, and your work :-)
>
> It is about Gentoo, please keep this in mind. Nobody says YOU have to
> make the work, or that you are doing sth. wrong. You could do
On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 20:06 +0200, Peter Weber wrote:
> - The same installtion (networkless!) possibilites should be offered to
> the people who install via the shell (the oldschool an most often used
> way i believe), the ncurses-installer and the gtk-installer. I
> personally think a real Stage-3
Hi, im sorry about "creating" a flamewar. But their are a view points
that disturb me really:
- The same installtion (networkless!) possibilites should be offered to
the people who install via the shell (the oldschool an most often used
way i believe), the ncurses-installer and the gtk-installer.
On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 10:40:01AM -0400, Kari Hazzard wrote:
> Not going to happen. I'm many things, but a software developer is not one of
> them. I generally prefer to work on things like design and user psychology
> than actually being involved in the coding of it.
>
> You don't want me prod
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 23:30 -0400, Kari Hazzard wrote:
> The point is that if you build Gentoo to be developer-friendly rather than
> user-friendly, Gentoo will be replaced by something else.
...and? You seem to think that Gentoo being "developer-friendly" would
be a change in the current way we
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 23:30 -0400, Kari Hazzard wrote:
> The point is that if you build Gentoo to be developer-friendly rather than
> user-friendly, Gentoo will be replaced by something else.
>
> User-centric design is why Gentoo is/was different from everything else. Take
> away choices that pe
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 19:50 -0400, Caleb Cushing wrote:
> from the ones that are on the mirrors. so what is the hangup? I doubt
> it's storage space and bandwidth.
Uhh... it *is* storage space.
In fact, the space usage on our donated mirrors is one of the primary
motivators to have us decrease o
On Tuesday 10 October 2006 03:45, Kari Hazzard wrote:
After writing the last response, another thought came to mind that I figured I
should post - and should probably be set out in a "user's guide to posting on
dev mailing lists".
I had the thought that users likely feel that it's okay to repe
On Tuesday 10 October 2006 03:45, Kari Hazzard wrote:
> On Monday 09 October 2006 6:30 pm, Alec Warner wrote:
> > I concur with Donnie here; Gentoo exists not because of Users, but
> > because of (a subset of active) Developers. It isn't a statement that
> > is meant to trash users (because you ar
Not going to happen. I'm many things, but a software developer is not one of
them. I generally prefer to work on things like design and user psychology
than actually being involved in the coding of it.
You don't want me producing code for the project, trust me on that one. >>
--
Kari Hazzard
O
Kari Hazzard wrote: [Mon Oct 09 2006, 10:30:40PM CDT]
> User-centric design is why Gentoo is/was different from everything
> else. Take away choices that people want and you take the Gentoo
> philosophy out of Gentoo itself.
Heh. You might want to read drobbins' "Making the distribution"
articles
On 10/10/06, Seemant Kulleen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If the design was in any way user-centric, then that was a side-effect
of the design being developer-centric. The choices are all about
enabling development and developers. The Gentoo philosophy is about
empowerment -- we provide a platform
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 23:30 -0400, Kari Hazzard wrote:
> User-centric design is why Gentoo is/was different from everything else. Take
> away choices that people want and you take the Gentoo philosophy out of
> Gentoo itself.
If the design was in any way user-centric, then that was a side-effect
On Monday 09 October 2006 6:30 pm, Alec Warner wrote:
> I concur with Donnie here; Gentoo exists not because of Users, but
> because of (a subset of active) Developers. It isn't a statement that
> is meant to trash users (because you are quite helpful in many
> instances). But the naive thought t
The point is that if you build Gentoo to be developer-friendly rather than
user-friendly, Gentoo will be replaced by something else.
User-centric design is why Gentoo is/was different from everything else. Take
away choices that people want and you take the Gentoo philosophy out of
Gentoo itsel
Simon Stelling wrote:
Roy Bamford wrote:
Dropping support for x86 suppose, its a question of when.
There is clearly only a few users, besides myself using systems that
old, since there were very few forums posts about the original 2006.1
x86 media not workign on P1 and AMD k6 based systems.
Roy Bamford wrote:
Dropping support for x86 suppose, its a question of when.
There is clearly only a few users, besides myself using systems that
old, since there were very few forums posts about the original 2006.1
x86 media not workign on P1 and AMD k6 based systems.
I'm sure I'm not the o
umm... I don't that was the point (that it can't work for everyone).
However it would be nice if I didn't have to download a tarball.
I see the point in why it's hard with distfiles but how hard would it
be to add tarballs and limited distfiles. to a "minimal cd) and make
it universal and put it
On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 19:11:47 -0400 "Caleb Cushing"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| I would like to state my opinion on this... debate. the installer for
| me... is inadequate it does not allow for nearly enough customization.
Then don't use the installer.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail: cia
I would like to state my opinion on this... debate. the installer for
me... is inadequate it does not allow for nearly enough customization.
I generally keep my boot partitions at 32 MB why? because I don't need
anymore space than that( I have never even used half that much). I
optomize my ext3 pa
Kari Hazzard wrote:
On Thursday 05 October 2006 10:48 am, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
What about *our* choice to not waste time building things we don't want?
So what about those of us who DO want that? Forcing us into an installer is
more constricting and gives us less freedom--That's not the Ge
It was only a suggestion, not a decision. Of course, there are only a
little number of this early systems.
i686 would be really nice, i386 would be nice, too ;-)
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 20:45 +0100, Roy Bamford wrote:
> On 2006.10.09 19:42, Peter Weber wrote:
> [snip]
> > But to include the sources
You've wrote sth. about more content and a stage3 on the LiveDVD, or
not?!
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 17:50 -0400, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 20:42 +0200, Peter Weber wrote:
> > Hello, I am very glad to here that a complet networkless install via a
> > stage3 on the dvd without t
On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 07:40:53 -0400 Kari Hazzard
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| "If the tool forces the user to do things a particular way, then the
| tool is working against, rather than for, the user.
That doesn't mean that the user is using the right tool. If you're
trying to nail something to a w
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 07:40 -0400, Kari Hazzard wrote:
> On Thursday 05 October 2006 10:48 am, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> > What about *our* choice to not waste time building things we don't want?
>
> So what about those of us who DO want that? Forcing us into an installer is
> more constricting a
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 20:42 +0200, Peter Weber wrote:
> Hello, I am very glad to here that a complet networkless install via a
> stage3 on the dvd without the installer would be possible again!
I never said that.
> > At any rate, the next release will allow a user to *very* easily to
> > networkl
Kari Hazzard wrote:
> There's a thing called self-reference criteria. It's anathema in marketing.
> If
> you think you know what is best for your users, you will all of your users
> and thus most of your employees. Your users know what is best for them, *not*
> you, as you are not a user (wheth
On Thursday 05 October 2006 10:48 am, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> What about *our* choice to not waste time building things we don't want?
So what about those of us who DO want that? Forcing us into an installer is
more constricting and gives us less freedom--That's not the Gentoo way.
"If the too
On 2006.10.09 19:42, Peter Weber wrote:
[snip]
But to include the sources need simply too much space. I also think
it it enough to deliver only one stage3 (i686 on the x86-disk, x86-64
on
amd64-disk...).
Greetz
[snip]
Peter,
Such a disk will not support P1s and AMD k6 CPUs (or older).
Is
Hello, I am very glad to here that a complet networkless install via a
stage3 on the dvd without the installer would be possible again!
But why you write always something about the distfiles? Are there users
who want this? I really don't know.
I personally, think in the same way like you!
It is un
On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 10:38 +0200, Simon Stelling wrote:
> Dominique Michel wrote:
> > When an user or a potential user read it and want to do a networkless
> > install,
> > it will just use the Live CD install, and just get in trouble. It is even
> > worse
> > when many Linux magazines will have
Dominique Michel wrote:
When an user or a potential user read it and want to do a networkless install,
it will just use the Live CD install, and just get in trouble. It is even worse
when many Linux magazines will have this CD. And you cannot argue at it is just
to use catalyst or to burn a CD fr
Le Fri, 06 Oct 2006 10:06:41 -0400,
Chris Gianelloni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :
> On Fri, 2006-10-06 at 09:39 +0200, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> > Steev Klimaszewski wrote:
> > > No... but didn't one download and burn that CD that is being used for
> > > the _networkless_ install? One could also d
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 03:32:41PM -0500, Steev Klimaszewski wrote:
[:snip:]
>> Stop being stupid please, you're only making fun of yourself. I guess I
>> don't have to explain you how useful a URL is to a _networkless_
>> installation, do I?
>>
>No... but didn't one download and burn that CD that
On Fri, 2006-10-06 at 09:39 +0200, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> Steev Klimaszewski wrote:
> > No... but didn't one download and burn that CD that is being used for
> > the _networkless_ install? One could also download the stage needed,
> > slap it on a usb key, and viola! Of course, the other option,
Steev Klimaszewski wrote:
> No... but didn't one download and burn that CD that is being used for
> the _networkless_ install? One could also download the stage needed,
> slap it on a usb key, and viola! Of course, the other option, is to use
> that crazy installer option "Networkless" - I could
Simon Stelling wrote:
> Jakub Moc wrote:
>>> The missing Stage3 is the real problem.
>> Apparently...
>>
>> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/2006.1/stages/stage3-i686-2006.1.tar.bz2
>> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/amd64/2006.1/stages/stage3-amd64-2006.1.tar.bz2
>> http://gentoo.osuosl.org
grab catalyst 2 learn how to use it an make your own stage 3
installer. it's pretty easy. their's the gentoo-cayalyst list if you
need help.
Plus nothing stops you from creating your own customized media using our
release tools, as already said. You can still install Gentoo from stage1
if you re
Jakub Moc wrote:
>> The missing Stage3 is the real problem.
>
> Apparently...
>
> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/2006.1/stages/stage3-i686-2006.1.tar.bz2
> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/amd64/2006.1/stages/stage3-amd64-2006.1.tar.bz2
> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ppc/2006.1/ppc32
Dan Meltzer wrote:
> None of which are that helpful for a networkless install :/
Funny, I can still do networkless install with those just fine by
fetching the distfiles tarballs before install - hint: emerge -[fF]
Plus nothing stops you from creating your own customized media using our
release
On 10/5/06, Jakub Moc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Peter Weber wrote:
> You don't unterstand me, sorry.
> There is no Universal-CD, a User must to download the LiveCD which
> forces he/she to use the Ncurses/X11-Installer, because there is no
> Stage3-Tarball.
OH RLY? Maybe just read the options y
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 10:48 -0400, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
>
> > Second Question: Will there be a new Universal-CD (or a DVD) with a real
> > Stage3 for networkless-installion?
>
> No. I do plan on putting the stage3 on the next LiveDVD, but without
> the necessary distfiles, it won't do much go
Peter Weber wrote:
> You don't unterstand me, sorry.
> There is no Universal-CD, a User must to download the LiveCD which
> forces he/she to use the Ncurses/X11-Installer, because there is no
> Stage3-Tarball.
OH RLY? Maybe just read the options you can pass to bootloader to get CLI?
> The missin
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 15:52 +0200, Peter Weber wrote:
> First Question: Where is here the Choice_Of_Gentoo and why are we
> breaking with our tradition of shell-installing?
I love this argument.
What about *our* choice to not waste time building things we don't want?
> I would be better to offer
You don't unterstand me, sorry.
There is no Universal-CD, a User must to download the LiveCD which
forces he/she to use the Ncurses/X11-Installer, because there is no
Stage3-Tarball.
The missing Stage3 is the real problem.
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 16:27 +0200, Jakub Moc wrote:
> Peter Weber wrote:
>
Peter Weber wrote:
> Hello,
> since Gentoo started its "Gentoopix" LiveCD I really miss a CD for
> networkless-installation. I don't know why the stage3 is missing,
> because just some people need a full Gnome-Desktop for the
> installation :-(
Oh noes, we even have a whole special handbook versio
Hello,
since Gentoo started its "Gentoopix" LiveCD I really miss a CD for
networkless-installation. I don't know why the stage3 is missing,
because just some people need a full Gnome-Desktop for the
installation :-(
A year ago I could choose between a Minimal-CD for network-installation,
or a Univ
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