On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 21:22:39 +0200, Sebastian Klein wrote:
> Dirk Stöcker wrote:
>> On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Anthony wrote:
>>
>>> And it is something that should be consistent across different
>>> editors.
>>
>> Actually this is nothing we need to worry about. JOSM is still settings
>> the standards
On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 19:46:30 +0200, Sebastian Klein wrote:
> I would vote for keeping the changeset open by default. If the user
> changes the changeset comment or other tags on subsequent upload, it
> should ask if a new changeset should be started.
I find this arrangement to be overly cumberso
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Sebastian Klein wrote:
Actually this is nothing we need to worry about. JOSM is still settings
the standards here. We have 50% of the market. Potlatch the remaining 50%.
The other editors don't really count at all ATM.
Don't forget Merkaartor! It has a fair amount of use
Dirk Stöcker wrote:
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Anthony wrote:
And it is something that should be consistent across different editors.
Actually this is nothing we need to worry about. JOSM is still settings
the standards here. We have 50% of the market. Potlatch the remaining
50%. The other editors
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Anthony wrote:
And it is something that should be consistent across different editors.
Actually this is nothing we need to worry about. JOSM is still settings
the standards here. We have 50% of the market. Potlatch the remaining 50%.
The other editors don't really count a
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> It is also unrealistic to expect good OSM data edits every time. Still it's
> good if people try, and good if the software helps them with it.
Agreed.
>> IMO the job of the software should be to make sure the person knows
>> the software ha
Hi,
Anthony wrote:
So do I... I just think it's unrealistic to expect it every time.
It is also unrealistic to expect good OSM data edits every time. Still
it's good if people try, and good if the software helps them with it.
IMO the job of the software should be to make sure the person k
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 4:26 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Arguably, the changeset comment could be split up in a number of individual
> tags. Currently, people use it for different things - they say something
> about the source, about their method, about where they worked, about why
> they changed so
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Marko Mäkelä wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 03, 2010 at 08:08:56PM -0400, Anthony wrote:
>>>
>>> The quality of my own changeset comments is absolutely irrelevant in this
>>> discussion; let's assume, if it gives you pleasure, that they are all just
>>> "...". That might disc
Anthony,
The way I like to think of this is: If you speak to another mapper later that day,
and they ask you "what
you've been up to?" and you answer them in one sentence - that's what you
should put as a changeset
comment.
Sounds like a better place for that would be a diary entry.
If the
mm [mailto:frede...@remote.org]
Verzonden: dinsdag 3 augustus 2010 20:47
Aan: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
CC: josm-dev@openstreetmap.org
Onderwerp: Re: [josm-dev] Change to changeset comment handling, RfD
Hi,
ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen wrote:
> I suggest we try to J
Frederik Ramm writes:
> Julien Balas wrote:
> > I prefere some new data and no comment rather than... nothing.
>
> See, that's the difference between the "data is more important" and the
> "community is more important" view.
I'd agree with you, call a lack of comment a lack of data, and the
On Tue, Aug 03, 2010 at 08:08:56PM -0400, Anthony wrote:
The quality of my own changeset comments is absolutely irrelevant in
this discussion; let's assume, if it gives you pleasure, that they
are all just "...". That might discredit the messenger, but not
change anything about the message. I t
Am 04.08.2010 01:19, schrieb Frederik Ramm:
Ulf,
P.S: Yes, this isn't a theoretical situation. While riding my
motorbike, I frequently have a lot of such tiny changes spread over a
huge area.
Perhaps we can try to be a bit more reasonable about this.
That's what I'm trying to do.
I have t
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> The way I like to think of this is: If you speak to another mapper later that
> day, and they ask you "what
> you've been up to?" and you answer them in one sentence - that's what you
> should put as a changeset
> comment.
Sounds like a bet
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 7:34 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Anthony wrote:
>>
>> I asked you for your username, because I wanted to see what you
>> consider to be a good changeset comment. It never struck me that you
>> might not actually consider your own changeset comments to be good.
>
> I
Hi,
Anthony wrote:
I asked you for your username, because I wanted to see what you
consider to be a good changeset comment. It never struck me that you
might not actually consider your own changeset comments to be good.
I have given a number of examples that I consider good in the discussion
Ulf,
P.S: Yes, this isn't a theoretical situation. While riding my motorbike,
I frequently have a lot of such tiny changes spread over a huge area.
Perhaps we can try to be a bit more reasonable about this.
I have the impression that those who oppose changeset comments,
including you, think
Ulf,
Is it really your strategy to offend anyone not sharing your point of
view and build a community on top of that?
Please count the number of people who have participated in the
discussion on talk, and see how many of them thought that changeset
comments are important.
If I had the impr
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Ulf Lamping wrote:
> Am 03.08.2010 18:12, schrieb Anthony:
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:51 AM, Ulf Lamping
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't think that the change to 10 chars is a good idea. E.g. if I only
>>> add
>>> a tag to a node, the comment "tag added" is IMO suffi
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Ulf Lamping wrote:
Fine, so why don't you start your own project and *then* pick the community
you like? Remember, OSM is a project to build a free map of the world, not to
build a nice community of people sharing the ideas of Frederik.
Please do flaming outside of JOSM de
Am 03.08.2010 18:12, schrieb Anthony:
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:51 AM, Ulf Lamping wrote:
I don't think that the change to 10 chars is a good idea. E.g. if I only add
a tag to a node, the comment "tag added" is IMO sufficient but still "rings
the bell".
I'd say a comment of "tag added" isn't a
Am 03.08.2010 17:10, schrieb Frederik Ramm:
Hi,
Julien Balas wrote:
I prefere some new data and no comment rather than... nothing.
See, that's the difference between the "data is more important" and the
"community is more important" view. I think that the people count more
than the data they
Frederik Ramm wrote:
Hi,
ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen wrote:
I suggest we try to JOSM add some comments by itself:
Merkaartor did that, or perhaps does it still. These auto-generated
comments are next to worthless. They cannot replace one human being
telling another human b
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:51 AM, Ulf Lamping wrote:
> I don't think that the change to 10 chars is a good idea. E.g. if I only add
> a tag to a node, the comment "tag added" is IMO sufficient but still "rings
> the bell".
I'd say a comment of "tag added" isn't any better than no comment at all.
_
may inspire someone
Gert
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: josm-dev-boun...@openstreetmap.org
[mailto:josm-dev-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens Julien Balas
Verzonden: dinsdag 3 augustus 2010 16:33
Aan: Russ Nelson
CC: josm-dev@openstreetmap.org
Onderwerp: Re: [josm-dev] Change to change
Hi,
Julien Balas wrote:
I prefere some new data and no comment rather than... nothing.
See, that's the difference between the "data is more important" and the
"community is more important" view. I think that the people count more
than the data they contribute, and if their attitude towards t
i use to work on a system where "comments" where mandatory to validate an
order.
most of the people use "X" as a comment.
then the IT guys add a rule forbidding "X"
then users use "."
then IT add a rule "at least 3 chars"
then user use "bla" as comments
and so on, and so on.
as far as i don't lik
Frederik Ramm writes:
> Hi,
>
> Ulf Lamping wrote:
> > Sorry, you overemphasize the importance of changeset comments.
>
> I think you underestimate the importance of changeset comments.
Trouble is that you can't force people to provide good comments. You
can force them to provide comments
Hi,
Sebastian Klein wrote:
Personally I only check a "don't show this message again"-box if I'm
100% sure I understood the message and I really, really don't want it to
show up again
We have had users on talk-de who had "accidentally" clicked a "don't
show this message again" box and were de
Hi,
Ulf Lamping wrote:
Sorry, you overemphasize the importance of changeset comments.
I think you underestimate the importance of changeset comments.
Please keep in mind, that a changeset comment is *optional*, and there
is no "misbehaviour" if not added.
If a user don't want to add commen
Sebastian Klein wrote:
Frederik Ramm wrote:
Hi,
Sebastian Klein wrote:
Good idea. I modified it a little, because the buttons and their
icons might be somewhat misleading. For me, the cancel icon is
associated with "Take me back, I don't want to break anything here!"
rather than "Beware! Don
Frederik Ramm wrote:
Hi,
Sebastian Klein wrote:
Good idea. I modified it a little, because the buttons and their icons
might be somewhat misleading. For me, the cancel icon is associated
with "Take me back, I don't want to break anything here!" rather than
"Beware! Don't click this button!".
Am 31.07.2010 21:23, schrieb Frederik Ramm:
For a while now, JOSM has forced people to add a changeset comment that
is at least three characters long, and refused to perform an upload
otherwise. In addition, JOSM *always* loaded that last recently used
changeset comment as a default, making it ea
Matthias Julius wrote:
Apollinaris Schoell writes:
On 31 Jul 2010, at 12:23 , Frederik Ramm wrote:
I have now changed this in the following way:
* The last recently used changeset description is only loaded as
default if it was used less than 4 hours ago. Otherwise there is no
default.
Wh
Apollinaris Schoell writes:
> On 31 Jul 2010, at 12:23 , Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
>> I have now changed this in the following way:
>>
>> * The last recently used changeset description is only loaded as
>> default if it was used less than 4 hours ago. Otherwise there is no
>> default.
>>
>
> Why 4
On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Apollinaris Schoell wrote:
>
> On 31 Jul 2010, at 12:23 , Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
>> I have now changed this in the following way:
>>
>> * The last recently used changeset description is only loaded as default if
>> it was used less than 4 hours ago. Otherwise ther
On 31 Jul 2010, at 12:23 , Frederik Ramm wrote:
> I have now changed this in the following way:
>
> * The last recently used changeset description is only loaded as default if
> it was used less than 4 hours ago. Otherwise there is no default.
>
Why 4h and not 1h or 5min? this doesn't help mu
Frederik Ramm wrote:
Hi,
I have changed the way JOSM treats changeset comments. This is a
politically sensitive topic (see recent discussion on talk list), so I'd
value your input. I'm willing to revert the change (applied in r3399) if
people think it is for the worse.
Tha vast majority
On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 12:56, Anthony wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>> * If you try to upload a changeset with a comment of less than 10 (!)
>> characters, there's a dialog that explains the importance of changeset
>> comments, and asks the user to reconsider. The
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> * If you try to upload a changeset with a comment of less than 10 (!)
> characters, there's a dialog that explains the importance of changeset
> comments, and asks the user to reconsider. The user may refuse to
> reconsider, in which case JOS
Hi,
Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
JOSM is sometimes a maze of popup windows, all alike :)
Just when I tested that little change I found that JOSM is also
sometimes a maze of pop*under* windows which is even more confusing ;)
It'd be nice to data mine the changeset comments for the whole p
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 19:23, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> I have changed the way JOSM treats changeset comments. This is a
> politically sensitive topic (see recent discussion on talk list), so I'd
> value your input. I'm willing to revert the change (applied in r3399) if
> people think it is for th
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