RE: [WSG] Video of Screen Reader Use?

2005-11-14 Thread Glen Wallis
This is a wonderful resource Justin. Thank you.   Glen Wallis     Hi Joseph,   These are really great videos from the University of Wisconsin. http://www.doit.wisc.edu/accessibility/video/   I have shown these in a lot of classes and presentations.  

[WSG] Wild metadata

2005-11-14 Thread Jonathan O'Donnell
Hi DC-General and the Web Standards Group Here's another half-baked idea that I am trying to straighten out. I would appreciate your feedback and suggestions. This will be my last one for a while, I promise. ** The problem ** On the Web, DC.description and DC.subject are not very effectiv

[WSG] CSS and PHP

2005-11-14 Thread designer
H All, I've been having a little bother with validation of my PHP generated pages. I'm new to PHP/mySQL and I'm finding that some peculiar things happen, such as and appear in the middle of the code. (???) Also, I find that submitting a URL such as: $myurl="testdate.php?houseID=$housename

RE: [WSG] hover div fill query

2005-11-14 Thread Patrick Lauke
> ivanovitch > The demo page is at http://imeet.com.au/aa2/ - it's cut right backto > highlight my problem. Ignore the content, and the site URL > I'm trying to find a way to make blocks of text in a div (item) to > display the hover background for the entire div, and not just the > linked text.

RE: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Patrick Lauke
> Geoff Deering wrote: > With all due respects this is the way default graphical user interface > on operating systems are designed to function. > From page 158 of "The Windows Interface Guidelines for Software Design"; But we're talking about the design of web sites, not software that should

Re: [WSG] hover div fill query

2005-11-14 Thread ivanovitch
Thanks for the prompt response, Tim - but your suggestion did not alter the output (in my browser, at least). Sounded plausible, though... Anyone else? On 14/11/05, Tim Burgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If I remember correctly (others, please correct me if I'm wrong).. > > Make your links block

Re: [WSG] hover div fill query

2005-11-14 Thread The Visual Process
This will get the background color through the whole div: div.item a:link {text-decoration: none; display: block; height: 100%; width: 100%;} And if you want the hover text to turn white you'll have to take a look at the way your classes and id's are working, the .author class is overriding o

Re: [WSG] CSS and PHP

2005-11-14 Thread The Visual Process
I'm not clued up on php or mySQL but if you use amersands then you need to display it as such & otherwise it wont validate. designer wrote: H All, I've been having a little bother with validation of my PHP generated pages. I'm new to PHP/mySQL and I'm finding that some peculiar things ha

RE: [WSG] CSS and PHP

2005-11-14 Thread Patrick Lauke
> designer > I'm new to PHP/mySQL and I'm finding that some peculiar things > happen, such as and appear in the middle of the code. Difficult to know without seeing a URL and the associated PHP code. Sound like an error in the PHP to me, though... > $myurl="testdate.php?houseID=$housename&ch

Re: [WSG] CSS and PHP

2005-11-14 Thread Tim Burgan
Just a quick note that'll help: In the URL, the special characters (such as ampersands, question marks, etc) need to be converted to html character entities. You can find entity codes from: http://www.ascii.cl/htmlcodes.htm For example: ampersand can be & or & question mark is ? Therefore yo

Re: [WSG] CSS and PHP

2005-11-14 Thread Lea de Groot
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:09:42 +, designer wrote: > I've been having a little bother with validation of my PHP generated > pages. I'm new to PHP/mySQL and I'm finding that some peculiar things > happen, such as and appear in the middle of the code. > (???) Also, I find that submitting a URL

Re: [WSG] CSS and PHP

2005-11-14 Thread Bert Doorn
Tim Burgan wrote: Just a quick note that'll help: In the URL, the special characters (such as ampersands, question marks, etc) need to be converted to html character entities. Question marks do not need to be converted. Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.

Re: [WSG] Wild metadata

2005-11-14 Thread Steven C. Perkins
You might be interested in MKSearch, it searches for DC metadata in the head section of web pages. http://www.mksearch.mkdoc.org/ Regards, Steven C. Perkins At 03:16 AM 11/14/2005, you wrote: Hi DC-General and the Web Standards Group Here's another half-baked idea that I am trying to straig

[WSG] Design_Time_Lock

2005-11-14 Thread Robert Nicolson
This is another Visual Studio .Net designer related question I think, I have had a quick google, but would anyone be willing to back me up that 'Design_Time_Lock' is not a valid html or css attribute. I am sure it is about as valid as'Design_Time_Drag_And_Drop' is but someone on my team insi

Re: [WSG] Design_Time_Lock

2005-11-14 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Quoting Robert Nicolson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: I have had a quick google, but would anyone be willing to back me up that 'Design_Time_Lock' is not a valid html or css attribute. Hah...but of course it's not valid. If your team grumbles, tell them they're muppets and challenge them to find a refe

Re: [WSG] hover div fill query

2005-11-14 Thread Steve Clason
On 11/14/2005 4:44 AM ivanovitch wrote: I've been trying very hard to propel myself into the 21st century and apply web standards and use good CSS as much as possible, but I'm stuck on getting a div to honour a hover state that I am trying to build. Guidance appreciated... The demo page is at h

Re: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Hassan Schroeder
Geoff Deering wrote: > This also leads to another problem, in that if users configure their > operating system to a custom scheme, unwittingly the web designer may be > indicating to the user that a field may be read only even if it is not > grey. How does the designer know whether to use grey or

Re: [WSG] Altering a Valid (X)HTML with DHTML => Is it still REAL LY valid?

2005-11-14 Thread Ben Curtis
It's a tricky one How? If a tree falls in a wood and no-one hears it - does it still make a noise? Well, it is tricky one. It certainly makes some air waves, ... So, kidding aside, invalid is invalid. Except that validity is a concept that can only be applied to documents. Is the d

Re: [WSG] PNG Question

2005-11-14 Thread Ben Curtis
Only supported in IE 6 with a hack, kind of an ugly one too as it renders the PNG's transparent area with a mid gray until it has finished loading, I guess if it's on a small image it's ok. I've had a lot of luck with "PNG Behavior": http://webfx.eae.net/dhtml/pngbehavior/pngbehavior.html

Re: [WSG] hover div fill query

2005-11-14 Thread ivanovitch
Thank you: this is a great improvement, but not quite there. I've added the extra declaration as shown, but... This addtion only hovers the text component, not the entire span area. A table cell would go to the ruled edges - it's only a few pixels, I know, but it's important. (and I've not solved

Re: [WSG] CSS and PHP

2005-11-14 Thread designer
Thank you Gentlemen, Very helpful as always! (I mean it!) -- Best Regards, Bob McClelland Cornwall (UK) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelin

Re: [WSG] hover div fill query

2005-11-14 Thread Hassan Schroeder
ivanovitch wrote: > Thank you: this is a great improvement, but not quite there. I've > added the extra declaration as shown, but... > > This addtion only hovers the text component, not the entire span area. > A table cell would go to the ruled edges - it's only a few pixels, I > know, but it's i

Re: [WSG] hover div fill query

2005-11-14 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
ivanovitch wrote: Thank you: this is a great improvement, but not quite there. I've added the extra declaration as shown, but... This addtion only hovers the text component, not the entire span area. A table cell would go to the ruled edges - it's only a few pixels, I know, but it's important.

Re: [WSG] hover div fill query

2005-11-14 Thread ivanovitch
Nope: it's the demo page that is failing. Might be the browser (I'm using Safari and Firefox at present, and rebuilding my Windows box after a trojan popped in). We're only talking a few pixels: the text does show the hover state, but if I were to use a table cell, the entire cell would show it. A

Re: [WSG] hover div fill query

2005-11-14 Thread Thierry Koblentz
ivanovitch wrote: > Nope: it's the demo page that is failing. Might be the browser (I'm > using Safari and Firefox at present, and rebuilding my Windows box > after a trojan popped in). > > We're only talking a few pixels: the text does show the hover state, > but if I were to use a table cell, th

Re: [WSG] hover div fill query

2005-11-14 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
ivanovitch wrote: We're only talking a few pixels: the text does show the hover state, but if I were to use a table cell, the entire cell would show it. At present, the hover finishes at exactly the edge of the text, and not to the div border. Ah, hang on, missed the bit about the white space.

Re: [WSG] hover div fill query

2005-11-14 Thread Terrence Wood
This is a really brief answer, but should get you started on the right track to thinking about the "C" in CSS =) First, some house work: "id" must be unique, "class" can be reused on any number of elements. Second, the following demonstrates the use of the cascade - "C" - to color the author clas

Re: [WSG] Wild metadata

2005-11-14 Thread Terrence Wood
Jonathan O'Donnell said: > ** The solution ** > Wild metadata, such as anchor text, blog descriptions and folksonomies > may provide better description and subject (or keyword) metadata. > The quality will not be as good as trained librarians applying metadata > via a standardised system and contr

Re: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Geoff Deering
Patrick Lauke wrote: Geoff Deering wrote: With all due respects this is the way default graphical user interface on operating systems are designed to function. From page 158 of "The Windows Interface Guidelines for Software Design"; But we're talking about the d

Re: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Geoff Deering
Hassan Schroeder wrote: Geoff Deering wrote: This also leads to another problem, in that if users configure their operating system to a custom scheme, unwittingly the web designer may be indicating to the user that a field may be read only even if it is not grey. How does the designer know

Re: [WSG] hover div fill query

2005-11-14 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: > Ah, hang on, missed the bit about the white space. Why not just set > the padding on both div.input and div.item to 0, and reapply the > padding in div.item a:link? Also, you don't need the width: 100%; and > height: 100% in the a:link The width is not needed, but I belie

Re: [WSG] hover div fill query

2005-11-14 Thread ivanovitch
Tried height adjustments (0, 1, 99%) in Safari, but no dice. It seems as though the padding (needed here) is getting in the way no matter what. I didn't think that the full-width div color would be so tricky. I think that I can work my head around Terence's advice on the text color (Thanks, Terenc

Re: [WSG] hover div fill query

2005-11-14 Thread ivanovitch
On 15/11/05, Terrence Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This is a really brief answer, but should get you started on the right > track to thinking about the "C" in CSS =) > > First, some house work: "id" must be unique, "class" can be reused on any > number of elements. Oops - leftover from the bi

Re: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Geoff Deering wrote: So I cannot see how your argument applies, to me, it doesn't stand up. A designer should not implement a design element where their design falsely indicates to the user that the form control is in another state than it is actually in. This is misrepresentation of state.

Re: [WSG] CSS and PHP

2005-11-14 Thread Katrina
designer wrote: H All, I've been having a little bother with validation of my PHP generated pages. I'm new to PHP/mySQL and I'm finding that some peculiar things happen, such as and appear in the middle of the code. (???) Also, I find that submitting a URL such as: $myurl="testdate.php?h

Re: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Geoff Deering
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Geoff Deering wrote: So I cannot see how your argument applies, to me, it doesn't stand up. A designer should not implement a design element where their design falsely indicates to the user that the form control is in another state than it is actually in. This is mi

Re: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Geoff Deering wrote: You find these types of web environments mostly on intranets. For a lot of people in large organisations, these are primary interfaces they have to work with. To neglect to address this issue correctly could easily impact the integrity of data because the interface is no

Re: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Terrence Wood
Patrick H. Lauke said: > But is the solution to make a sweeping "don't style inputs" > recommendation, or to actually educate the designers not to just make > arbitrary decision, but decisions firmly based on usability (including > expected behaviour/presentation of state)? Yes, this is indeed th

Re: [WSG] hover div fill query

2005-11-14 Thread Terrence Wood
ivanovitch said: > I didn't think that the full-width div color would be so tricky. erm, it's not that tricky, it's just easy to overlook. take the padding (and border) off the div and add it to your anchor instead. The hover state will then fill the entire div. kind regards Terrence Wood **

Re: [WSG] hover div fill query

2005-11-14 Thread Sarah Peeke (XERT)
> ivanovitch said: > > I didn't think that the full-width div color would be so tricky. Try using the following css: div.input{border-top: 1px dotted #999;border-right: 1px dotted #999;border-left: 1px dotted #999;} div.item {padding: 0;border-bottom: 1px dotted #999;margin: 0px; width: 100%;} di

[WSG] Help with menu

2005-11-14 Thread James O'Neill
I am having problems with a menu that is similar to the Alistapart's hybrid menu. I can not get the width to be consistantly even with the rest of the site and it is not workig in IE or Opera. It works fine in Firebird. I have been beating my head against this for quite a long time. It seems that

Re: [WSG] Help with menu

2005-11-14 Thread Thierry Koblentz
James O'Neill wrote: > I am having problems with a menu that is similar to the Alistapart's > hybrid menu. I can not get the width to be consistantly even with the > rest of the site and it is not workig in IE or Opera. It works fine > in Firebird. I have been beating my head against this for quite

Re: [WSG] CSS and PHP

2005-11-14 Thread Alan Trick
Another issue: this may be caused by ussing sessions. When PHP manages sessions using GET queries as opposed to Cookies it might do this to your. What it does is appends &PHPSESSION= to the end of your urls, by default the & is *not* escaped. There's a way (in php.ini I think) to fix it. Check http

Re: [WSG] Design_Time_Lock

2005-11-14 Thread Alan Trick
I think thedailywtf.com needs a seperate section for web developers. Btw, googling 'Design_Time_Lock' gives some interesting results. Robert Nicolson wrote: > > This is another Visual Studio .Net designer related question I think, > > I have had a quick google, but would anyone be willing to ba

Re: [WSG] PNG Question

2005-11-14 Thread Alan Trick
Terrence Wood wrote: > Patrick H. Lauke said: > >>IE does not natively support 24 bit alpha transparency on PNGs without >>some seriously hacky workarounds. > > > ...which is to say that IE *does* support 8-bit transparency (i.e. same as > gif). > That is about the only reason to ever use the

Re: [WSG] Wild metadata

2005-11-14 Thread Andy Kirkwood, Motive
Hi Jonathan, >** The problem ** >On the Web, DC.description and DC.subject are not very effective finding aids >when the full text is indexed. I'm unclear as to the purpose of your enquiry. My take on what you have outlined is that you're seeking a method of generating metadata records without

Re: [WSG] PNG Question

2005-11-14 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Alan Trick wrote: Terrence Wood wrote: ...which is to say that IE *does* support 8-bit transparency (i.e. same as gif). That is about the only reason to ever use the GIF any more. And, as I mentioned, the fact that very old browsers don't know what a PNG is...which is only an issue if you k

Re: [WSG] CSS and PHP

2005-11-14 Thread James Ellis
Hi This has been discussed on the list before but the quick answer to URL's generated by PHP automatically  (like its session handler) is to use ini_set("arg_separator.output", "&");See : http://php.mirrors.ilisys.com.au/manual/en/ini.core.php#ini.arg-separator.outputIf you generate URL's m

Re: [WSG] PNG Question

2005-11-14 Thread Terrence Wood
Alan Trick said: >> ...which is to say that IE *does* support 8-bit transparency (i.e. same >> as >> gif). > That is about the only reason to ever use the GIF any more. Apart from I meant it supports png with 8-bit transparency. kind regards Terrence Wood. ***

Re: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Andy Kirkwood, Motive
Hi Geoff, (To pick up on Patrick's point.) Have you come across a scenario on a website where it seems appropriate to use an input element to indicate that an option exists but cannot be edited by the user? Perhaps it's preferable to show such content as text rather than as an input? (Seems

RE: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Rebecca Cox
Could be useful depending on the context. For example, if you wanted to show that a field was editable content (within the whole application), but not on the particular screen you are on right now (especially if the user knew that by clicking on "edit" or some other option they would be able t

Re: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Kevin Futter
On 15/11/05 3:20 PM, "Andy Kirkwood, Motive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Geoff, > > (To pick up on Patrick's point.) Have you come across a scenario on a > website where it seems appropriate to use an input element to > indicate that an option exists but cannot be edited by the user? > > Pe

Re: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Geoff Deering
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Geoff Deering wrote: You find these types of web environments mostly on intranets. For a lot of people in large organisations, these are primary interfaces they have to work with. To neglect to address this issue correctly could easily impact the integrity of data b

[WSG] UDM navigation issues with standards and validity

2005-11-14 Thread Benson Low
Hi I need some information on UDM (http://www.udm4.com/) navigation as a web standard navigation. The reason I am looking into this is the need to resolve issues with drop-down menus go behind field in IE. As some of us knows that there are inherent flaws/problems with IE & Window controls like f

[WSG] Label text for search input

2005-11-14 Thread Andy Kirkwood, Motive
Hi, Currently there seem to be a few different approaches (with regional variation) to marking up a simple search form. -Search for [Input field] [Button: Go] -[Input field: Text: Search for...] [Button: Go] -[Input field] [Button: Search] The above approaches seem ok for sighted users. The

RE: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Andy Kirkwood, Motive
Hi Rebecca, >For example, if you wanted to show that a field was editable content (within >the whole application), but not on the particular screen you are on right now >(especially if the user knew that by clicking on "edit" or some other option >they would be able to edit those particular fie

Re: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Geoff Deering
Terrence Wood wrote: Patrick H. Lauke said: But is the solution to make a sweeping "don't style inputs" recommendation, or to actually educate the designers not to just make arbitrary decision, but decisions firmly based on usability (including expected behaviour/presentation of state)?

Re: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Geoff Deering
Andy Kirkwood, Motive wrote: Hi Geoff, (To pick up on Patrick's point.) Have you come across a scenario on a website where it seems appropriate to use an input element to indicate that an option exists but cannot be edited by the user? Yes I can (domain registrars). In various states fi

Re: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Geoff Deering
Rebecca Cox wrote: Could be useful depending on the context. For example, if you wanted to show that a field was editable content (within the whole application), but not on the particular screen you are on right now (especially if the user knew that by clicking on "edit" or some other option th

Re: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Geoff Deering
Kevin Futter wrote: On 15/11/05 3:20 PM, "Andy Kirkwood, Motive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Geoff, (To pick up on Patrick's point.) Have you come across a scenario on a website where it seems appropriate to use an input element to indicate that an option exists but cannot be edited by

Re: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Andy Kirkwood, Motive
Hi Kevin, Nice example, top marks ;). Sometimes these discussions can get a little abstract and one (real world) example can help make the discussion less murky. Geoff, I understand your pain with regard to traditional (print) designers and the often rocky transition to screen-based design. (A