Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

[John DeSoi via 4D_Tech]

> On Oct 3, 2017, at 3:56 PM, Dennis, Neil via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> The ones that I have submitted that are reproducible I include a small 
> database demonstrating them. The bug is filed, I get email notifications as 
> it is updated and accepted, then I get an email telling me it is in one of 
> the nightly builds and I can test it.

This is the key difference. I spent about an hour this morning looking at this 
again and could not find any cause or reason. If I had, I would have opened up 
a tech support case.

> 
> The one that I reported that I could not reproduce, I had constant emails 
> between me and tech support until they actually figured out how to reproduce 
> it then sent it on to the engineers.

Yes, and this what I don't have time for. My only goal for today was to update 
my observation that I had not seen this issue previously in 16.2. The effort 
for 4D to follow this list (assuming they already do) is tiny compared to 
filing a bug without a reproducible test case. If the information on this list 
is not helpful to 4D in any way, they are free to ignore it. I find 
observations posted by others to be helpful and informative.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.




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Re: Number format

[Jeremy French via 4D_Tech]

The pattern to control the display of a zero value has 3-parts, separated by a 
semicolon. Note the 2-semicolons:

positive_format;negative_format;zero_format

To display nothing for a zero value, put nothing after the second semi-colon.

So this display filter will show positive and negative numbers, but display 
nothing for a zero value when the object doesn’t have focus:

###,##0;-###,##0;



> On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:59 PM, stardata.info via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> In one listbox, i need to display a number format so if the value is zero not 
> display anything.
> I try to insert the format ###.##0,##0 but not work properly.

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Number format

[stardata.info via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

I'm using 4D v15 on windows.
In one listbox, i need to display a number format so if the value is 
zero not display anything.

I try to insert the format ###.##0,##0 but not work properly.

Someone know how i can do.

Thanks
Ferdinando
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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

[Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech]

On Oct 3, 2017, at 3:49 PM, David Adams wrote:

> I'm with John on this one. The payoff for sending in bug reports and
> feature requests is incredibly low. Zero feedback and results are rare. *No
> matter what hoops are jumped.*
> 
> 4D the company gives the _very_ clear impression that they just don't want
> to know. If they do want to know, they're doing a terrible job of making
> that clear, making it possible, making it work, or making it worth out time
> to even try.

If this is the case, then I have to agree with you. 4D Inc. sucks.

Tim


Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com


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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

[Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech]

On Oct 3, 2017, at 3:49 PM, David Adams wrote:

>> That’s not his job. It is the job of every 4D developer to report bugs to

>> 4D by opening a tech support case.
>> And to refuse to close that tech support case, or allow it to auto close,
>> until the bug is fixed.
> 
> Sigh. Brining a fresh new flavor to the concept of "world class" customer
> service...

It is what it is. What’s more important, getting the bug fixed or bitching 
about customer service? I always vote for doing whatever it takes to get bugs 
fixed.

Now for a story…

Before I was a 4D developer, I worked for a small company that had an IBM 
System/36 computer. I was their “Data Processing Manager”. In other words I ran 
all the jobs on the computer and also did RPG programming on the system. Did 
some COBOL programming too. This was back in the 80’s before everybody at a 
company had a PC sitting on their desk. A few people had dumb terminals 
connected to the System/36. Users would come to me and report problems, bugs or 
changes to programs and I would handle them however I saw fit. It was a one man 
show. If you were nice, and I liked you, I would fix things for you. 

The company got bought by a bigger company that had a real IT department with a 
manager and programmer and other staff. The manager came to visit me and find 
out what I did and how things worked. This IT manager was now my boss. 

He asked me how I dealt with user requests. I said, they call me on the phone 
and tell me things, or stop by my office and tell me things. He said “don’t you 
have a programing change request form?" I said no, nothing official. No form 
they have to fill out. He said that changes today. From now on every program 
change request must be made in writing so we can track it. 

I told my new boss, I didn’t think the users here would like that. It’s too 
much work for them. And he said if the problem/bug they are reporting is so 
trivial that it is a waste of their time to complete a simple paper form, then 
it is not worth my time either. 

Maybe you could say I was providing “world class customer support”. I just 
thought I was doing my job. I was young, in my 20’s. He was in his 50’s and 
from the “real world”. 

Could be we are dealing with the same kind of situation. If all you are only 
willing to do is post a quick message on the iNUG and expect 4D Engineering to 
just to their feet and start investigating your claims from a iNUG message, you 
may be asking for a lot. 

4D has a way to officially report a bug. If it’s too much work to use that 
system — create a tech support case — then they are not interested in devoting 
time to it. (Refer to my story above.)

Just so I understand you correctly, in order for 4D Inc. to have “world class 
customer support” they need to take action for EVERY bug or issue reported on 
the iNUG.  Some action must being taken by 4D Engineering. And details of those 
actions must also be reported to the world by a message post on the iNUG. 

I would agree with you that if they did that they would would be providing 
“world class customer support”. But is that realistic? Can you name other 
software development company that does this?

Sorry to act like a hardon about this, but let’s get real because we live and 
work in the real world. 

Tim


Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com


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RE: 4D v16.2 false record locks

[Dennis, Neil via 4D_Tech]

> I'm with John on this one. The payoff for sending in bug reports and feature
> requests is incredibly low. Zero feedback and results are rare.
> *No matter what hoops are jumped.*

I have a different experience, I have reported a few bugs.

The ones that I have submitted that are reproducible I include a small database 
demonstrating them. The bug is filed, I get email notifications as it is 
updated and accepted, then I get an email telling me it is in one of the 
nightly builds and I can test it.

The one that I reported that I could not reproduce, I had constant emails 
between me and tech support until they actually figured out how to reproduce it 
then sent it on to the engineers.

I have never felt ignored or neglected. I think they do a great job with bugs 
that I have reported.

IMO

Neil




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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

Tim,

I'm with John on this one. The payoff for sending in bug reports and
feature requests is incredibly low. Zero feedback and results are rare. *No
matter what hoops are jumped.*

4D the company gives the _very_ clear impression that they just don't want
to know. If they do want to know, they're doing a terrible job of making
that clear, making it possible, making it work, or making it worth out time
to even try.

IMO
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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

[John DeSoi via 4D_Tech]

Hi Tim,

I have not opened a tech support case for this issue. But I have opened my 
share of them. The only way to get something fixed is to provide a reproducible 
example or perhaps a log with some detail that can help 4D fix it. Even with 
these details provided, many problems remain unsolved. It is a lot of time and 
effort and there are only so many hours in a day. 

I find it useful when other developers report their problems and experiences 
(good and bad) on this list. Other developers with the same problem may have 
identified a helpful work-around or alternative solution.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.



> On Oct 3, 2017, at 2:29 PM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> John, did you immediately contact 4D Tech Support and open a support case for 
> this bug? If you did, then you are helping to get this bug fixed. 
> 
> As you must know, just reporting the bug and talking about it here on the 
> iNUG will accomplish absolutely nothing regarding getting this fixed.

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RE: Undroppable Fantom Users in 4D v16.2 Server Mac

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

Have you tried a build above 216021 ?

http://bugs.4d.fr/fixedbugslist?branch=16
21602126/09/2017ACI0097341Ghost connection left on server after canceling from 
User Identification (login dialog) window.

-Tim



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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

> That’s not his job. It is the job of every 4D developer to report bugs to
4D by opening a tech support case.
> And to refuse to close that tech support case, or allow it to auto close,
until the bug is fixed.

Sigh. Brining a fresh new flavor to the concept of "world class" customer
service...
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Undroppable Fantom Users in 4D v16.2 Server Mac

[Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech]

Aloha,

I’m getting users logged in twice to 4D Server 16.2 Mac. One of the duplicate 
is stuck for days. A manual “Drop User” doesn’t do anything. The only choice is 
to quit and restart 4D Server.

This is becoming a pain as we run out of licenses with stuck users!

Anyone run into this?

Clients are all on a mac, all but me are running the 32-bit client. I’ve been 
using the 64-bit client exclusively and also have a duplicate of me that’s 
un-droppable.

Clicking on “Watch Process” on one of these takes me to a 1 process:
Application process - 4D Client Process
State: Postponed

Tech support is my next option.

Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami
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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

[Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech]

On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:57 AM, John DeSoi wrote:

> I just encountered this in version 16.2 (Mac, single user merged 
> application). The Locked function returns true, but LOCKED BY has empty 
> values for everything. The record is only accessed by one process and never 
> becomes unlocked even though it is repeatedly reloaded via subsequent queries.

John, did you immediately contact 4D Tech Support and open a support case for 
this bug? If you did, then you are helping to get this bug fixed. 

As you must know, just reporting the bug and talking about it here on the iNUG 
will accomplish absolutely nothing regarding getting this fixed.

The only way to get this bug to be recognized and have 4D devote some 
engineering time to fixing it is to have 50+ tech support cases opened by 50+ 
different developers reporting the same bug. That will get their attention.

Tim Penner read your message and he is reading this message. But don’t expect 
him to do anything about it. That’s not his job. It is the job of every 4D 
developer to report bugs to 4D by opening a tech support case. And to refuse to 
close that tech support case, or allow it to auto close, until the bug is 
fixed. 

That’s my opinion.

Tim


Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com


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Re: Canvas alternative

[Jim Dorrance via 4D_Tech]

I also use On Mouse Move for hover events


On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 8:33 PM, Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Hi Tom,
>
> > Could you please explain a bit further how you get from attributes to
> event callbacks? Do you capture an event on the SVG area and scan all its
> element attributes?
>
> I am just guessing here but check out this command:
>
> SVG Find element ID by coordinates
> http://livedoc.4d.com/4Dv15.4/help/Command/en/page1054.html
>
> The description of this command talks about using the On Clicked event of
> the object to get the mouse coordinates and then then using the X Y
> coordinates of the mouse location with the SVG Find element ID by
> coordinates to find out what is beneath the mouse during the click event.
>
> You should then have the ID of the element that was clicked on.
>
> If you had set a custom attribute for that element using SVG SET ATTRIBUTE
> you could then use SVG GET ATTRIBUTE to obtain that custom attribute, then,
> assuming it is a method name, you could use the EXECUTE METHOD command to
> execute it.
>
> This is just one approach.
>
> Another approach could be to use a case statement for the elements that
> you know may be clicked on, with each action defined within the case
> statements.
>
> There could be other approaches to.
>
> -Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
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www.4d.dorrance.eu

PS: If you know of anyone that needs an experienced 4D programmer to add
energy and experience to their team, please let me know. I have
experience in many areas. Reasonable rates. Remote or Paris only.
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Re: Canvas alternative

[Jim Dorrance via 4D_Tech]

That's exactly what I do.

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 8:33 PM, Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Hi Tom,
>
> > Could you please explain a bit further how you get from attributes to
> event callbacks? Do you capture an event on the SVG area and scan all its
> element attributes?
>
> I am just guessing here but check out this command:
>
> SVG Find element ID by coordinates
> http://livedoc.4d.com/4Dv15.4/help/Command/en/page1054.html
>
> The description of this command talks about using the On Clicked event of
> the object to get the mouse coordinates and then then using the X Y
> coordinates of the mouse location with the SVG Find element ID by
> coordinates to find out what is beneath the mouse during the click event.
>
> You should then have the ID of the element that was clicked on.
>
> If you had set a custom attribute for that element using SVG SET ATTRIBUTE
> you could then use SVG GET ATTRIBUTE to obtain that custom attribute, then,
> assuming it is a method name, you could use the EXECUTE METHOD command to
> execute it.
>
> This is just one approach.
>
> Another approach could be to use a case statement for the elements that
> you know may be clicked on, with each action defined within the case
> statements.
>
> There could be other approaches to.
>
> -Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **
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Jim Dorrance
jim.dorra...@gmail.com
4...@dorrance.eu
www.4d.dorrance.eu

PS: If you know of anyone that needs an experienced 4D programmer to add
energy and experience to their team, please let me know. I have
experience in many areas. Reasonable rates. Remote or Paris only.
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RE: Canvas alternative

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

Hi Tom,

> Could you please explain a bit further how you get from attributes to event 
> callbacks? Do you capture an event on the SVG area and scan all its element 
> attributes?

I am just guessing here but check out this command:

SVG Find element ID by coordinates
http://livedoc.4d.com/4Dv15.4/help/Command/en/page1054.html

The description of this command talks about using the On Clicked event of the 
object to get the mouse coordinates and then then using the X Y coordinates of 
the mouse location with the SVG Find element ID by coordinates to find out what 
is beneath the mouse during the click event.

You should then have the ID of the element that was clicked on.

If you had set a custom attribute for that element using SVG SET ATTRIBUTE you 
could then use SVG GET ATTRIBUTE to obtain that custom attribute, then, 
assuming it is a method name, you could use the EXECUTE METHOD command to 
execute it.

This is just one approach.

Another approach could be to use a case statement for the elements that you 
know may be clicked on, with each action defined within the case statements.

There could be other approaches to.

-Tim






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Re: Canvas alternative

[Jim Dorrance via 4D_Tech]

When I build the SVG I *optionally* associate a call-back method name in a
custom SVG attribute. When On Mouse Move, On Click, On Double Click etc.,
if there is a custom call-back attribute, I execute method.

I can always be contacted in private for more info: www.4d.dorrance.eu

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:33 PM, Tom DeMeo via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> Hi Jim
>
>
> Could you please explain a bit further how you get from attributes to
> event callbacks? Do you capture an event on the SVG area and scan all its
> element attributes?
>
> I took a look at the Projects page you mentioned but those are screen
> shots.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
> > --
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 08:25:10 +0200
> > From: Jim Dorrance 
> > To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> > Subject: Re: Canvas alternative
> > Message-ID:
> >   

Re: Canvas alternative

[Tom DeMeo via 4D_Tech]

Hi Jim


Could you please explain a bit further how you get from attributes to event 
callbacks? Do you capture an event on the SVG area and scan all its element 
attributes?

I took a look at the Projects page you mentioned but those are screen shots.



Tom

> --
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 08:25:10 +0200
> From: Jim Dorrance 
> To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Subject: Re: Canvas alternative
> Message-ID:
>   

Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

[John DeSoi via 4D_Tech]

Not the case here. Table is set to READ WRITE at the start of the process and 
never changed.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.



> On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:25 AM, Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org> wrote:
> 
> one thing that bit me in earlier versions (not v16) is Read Only.
> A record is locked when it is loaded in read only, in a single user 
> system this might be an explanation.

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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

one thing that bit me in earlier versions (not v16) is Read Only.
A record is locked when it is loaded in read only, in a single user 
system this might be an explanation.

On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 10:05:20 -0500, John DeSoi via 4D_Tech wrote:
> 
>> On Sep 19, 2017, at 7:33 PM, John DeSoi  wrote:
>> 
>> I still think there is a new bug in version 16, but I have not seen 
>> it happen again since upgrading to 16.2. This is a single user 
>> application with one process accessing the record. There is a 
>> trigger, but it just assigns one field and nothing else (no "fancy 
>> stuff"). 
> 
> I just encountered this in version 16.2 (Mac, single user merged 
> application). The Locked function returns true, but LOCKED BY has 
> empty values for everything. The record is only accessed by one 
> process and never becomes unlocked even though it is repeatedly 
> reloaded via subsequent queries.
> 
> John DeSoi, Ph.D.
> 
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Re: 4D v16.2 false record locks

[John DeSoi via 4D_Tech]

> On Sep 19, 2017, at 7:33 PM, John DeSoi  wrote:
> 
> I still think there is a new bug in version 16, but I have not seen it happen 
> again since upgrading to 16.2. This is a single user application with one 
> process accessing the record. There is a trigger, but it just assigns one 
> field and nothing else (no "fancy stuff"). 

I just encountered this in version 16.2 (Mac, single user merged application). 
The Locked function returns true, but LOCKED BY has empty values for 
everything. The record is only accessed by one process and never becomes 
unlocked even though it is repeatedly reloaded via subsequent queries.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.

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RE: NGINX Config

[David Ringsmuth via 4D_Tech]

Paul,

I can attest to the speed nginx provides in front of 4D!

But nginx also increases stability. 

Nginx will close stale connections, whereas an extremely busy 4D Server may not 
close stale connections, resulting in eventual crashing with thousands of http 
processes.

David Ringsmuth

From: Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 2:16 AM
To: 4d_tech@lists.4d.com
Cc: Paul Dennis
Subject: Re: NGINX Config

RE: Note if you enable 443 and ssl for any server you must have a cert for
all servers listening on 443 you cant mix them up. 

To Clarify I use nginx on windows and linux in a hyper v vm to proxy to our
different internal servers for web, testing etc. Each ssl is tied to a
domain however if you enable ssl and 443 on the nginx instance then you 
must have an ssl for each domain listening on port 443. 

It is much faster to have nginx ssl sitting in front of 4d and have proxy to
4d on normal http.
Paul



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Re: NGINX Config

[Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech]

RE: Note if you enable 443 and ssl for any server you must have a cert for
all servers listening on 443 you cant mix them up. 

To Clarify I use nginx on windows and linux in a hyper v vm to proxy to our
different internal servers for web, testing etc. Each ssl is tied to a
domain however if you enable ssl and 443 on the nginx instance then you 
must have an ssl for each domain listening on port 443. 

It is much faster to have nginx ssl sitting in front of 4d and have proxy to
4d on normal http.
Paul



--
Sent from: http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/4D-Tech-f1376241.html
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Re: Canvas alternative

[Jim Dorrance via 4D_Tech]

I regularly implement call-back events by creating custom attributes in
SVG. The associated 4D methods are then executed either in the host
database or in the component. You can see some interface possibilities on
my website: www.dorrance.eu in the section:"Projects".

>
> --
Jim Dorrance
jim.dorra...@gmail.com
4...@dorrance.eu
www.4d.dorrance.eu

PS: If you know of anyone that needs an experienced 4D programmer to add
energy and experience to their team, please let me know. I have
experience in many areas. Reasonable rates. Remote or Paris only.
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