Re: _ as first character in Method Name [was 64 bit...]

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

Hello

rhe extended 255 lengrh applies to form object names.




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Re: _ as first character in Method Name [was 64 bit...]

[Narinder Chandi via 4D_Tech]

I was checking the docs on this point a couple of days ago. Method names are 
still limited to 31 characters but variable length up to 255 characters 
_should_ be possible if the database is running in Unicode mode.

Why do I say _should_? Because in my current v17 conversion project (from v15) 
I am not able to go beyond the current 31 character limit, even though the 
database is running with Unicode support active. I have not investigated this 
limitation at any length as I have the bigger task of the conversion itself to 
deal with.

I also just quickly checked this in a clean v17 database that I am using for 
testing and the 31 character limit still exists there. At this point I would 
say that the v17 docs are wrong?!

It would be interesting to hear from anyone who can definitively confirm the we 
can go above the old 31 character limit though and/or whether there is some 
other magic setting to enable this support?

Regards,
 
Narinder Chandi,
ToolBox Systems Ltd.
-- 

-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com> on behalf of 4D Tech Mailing List 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Reply-To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Date: Saturday, 24 August 2019 at 17:39
To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Jim Labos - infobase 
Subject: Re: _ as first character in Method Name [was 64 bit...]

I haven't started to look at v17. Are we still limited to 32 characters for
Method and Variable names?





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Re: _ as first character in Method Name [was 64 bit...]

[Jim Labos - infobase via 4D_Tech]

I haven't started to look at v17. Are we still limited to 32 characters for
Method and Variable names?





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Re: _ as first character in Method Name [was 64 bit...]

[Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech]

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 9:58 PM Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> 4D already uses some private property names,
>
> e.g.
>
> __LockerID
> __NEW
> __KEY
>
>
> https://doc.4d.com/4Dv17R5/4D/17-R5/dataClassfromCollection.305-4128671.en.html
>
> https://doc.4d.com/4Dv17R5/4D/17-R5/Shared-objects-and-shared-collections.300-4128430.en.html
>
> so beware.
>

That is how I understand it - 4D internal objects can have hidden
properties with underscores, so it is better to not use underscore as a
first char in field and table names. But method names starting with
underscore  should be OK (for now.)

--

Peter Bozek
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Re: _ as first character in Method Name [was 64 bit...]

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

4D already uses some private property names,

e.g.

__LockerID
__NEW
__KEY

https://doc.4d.com/4Dv17R5/4D/17-R5/dataClassfromCollection.305-4128671.en.html
https://doc.4d.com/4Dv17R5/4D/17-R5/Shared-objects-and-shared-collections.300-4128430.en.html

so beware.

> 2019/08/20 2:12、Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:
> of course that will work!




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Re: _ as first character in Method Name [was 64 bit...]

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 09:31:09 -0700, Tom Benedict wrote:
> How about two underscores instead of a space?
DUH

of course that will work!

Chip


> 
> Tom
> 
>> On Aug 19, 2019, at 08:38, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>> related...
>> 
>> I name project methods in 'modules', that is the first 3 - 7 characters 
>> are the same.
>> i.e. animal_
>> I also have a 'header method', which is all comments and has a summary 
>> of the function of the module. I currently name these 'module headers' 
>> with the module name + space + 'Module_Info'.
>> ex: animal Module_Info
>> 
>> This causes the 'module headers' to float to the top of the module 
>> method list.
>> ex:
>> animal Module_Info
>> animal_a
>> animal_b
>> 
>> 
>> Again, 64 bit 4D is not going to like this.  Ideas to solve this, or do 
>> I just forego the ' module headers'?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Chip
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 16:27:07 +0100, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech wrote:
>>> Hi Chip,
>>> Yes, we've been doing that for years also ... and sometimes a dot, which
>>> also is not allowed any more.
>>> We've changed them all to "aa..."
>>> 
>>> Pat
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 16:24, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech 
>>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 I use an underscore to start the name of methods which I want to
 'float' to the top of the method list.
 I.E. _Conventions
 
 What allowed character(s) can I use instead?
 
 Thanks
 Chip
 
 On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 06:03:27 +, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech wrote:
> underscore prefixes are reserved for internal features,
> for plugins in particular.
> 
> in the past, they were used to auto-save 4D Write/View/Draw 
> plugin areas.
> I don't know if there are any other plugins that take advantage of
> the implicit association,
> but to avoid unintended consequences, it's better to avoid them if at
> all possible.
> 
> 2019/08/17 8:17、Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:
> - methods which start with Underscore are not allowed?
> 
> 
> 
> **
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Re: _ as first character in Method Name [was 64 bit...]

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 17:37:19 +0100, Narinder Chandi via 4D_Tech wrote:
> 
> Personally, I've never used spaces (or all uppercase for that matter) 
> when naming any 4D object but spaces are allowable and actually 
> encouraged according to that above?!
I only use a space in the specific instance mentioned - 'module headers'

> Maybe we could with some official clarification from 4D about this?
I agree.
There appears to be some break between various bits of documentation, 
and "reality" :)

Chip
 
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Re: _ as first character in Method Name [was 64 bit...]

[Narinder Chandi via 4D_Tech]

>> and 4D then processes to list all method names, and forms (1) with a  space 
>> in their names

...and actually, by chance I was reading the v17.2 docs at the weekend which 
explicitly states:

"Tip: It is a good programming technique to adopt the same naming convention as 
the one used by 4D for built-in commands. Use uppercase characters for naming 
your methods; however if a method is a function, capitalize the first character 
of its name. By doing so, when you reopen a database for maintenance after a 
few months, you will already know if a method returns a result by simply 
looking at its name in the Explorer window."

That quote above was taken from here:
https://doc.4d.com/4Dv17/4D/17.2/Identifiers.300-4387242.en.html

Personally, I've never used spaces (or all uppercase for that matter) when 
naming any 4D object but spaces are allowable and actually encouraged according 
to that above?!

Maybe we could with some official clarification from 4D about this?

Regards,
 
Narinder Chandi,
ToolBox Systems Ltd.
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Re: _ as first character in Method Name [was 64 bit...]

[Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech]

How about two underscores instead of a space?

Tom

> On Aug 19, 2019, at 08:38, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> related...
> 
> I name project methods in 'modules', that is the first 3 - 7 characters 
> are the same.
> i.e. animal_
> I also have a 'header method', which is all comments and has a summary 
> of the function of the module. I currently name these 'module headers' 
> with the module name + space + 'Module_Info'.
> ex: animal Module_Info
> 
> This causes the 'module headers' to float to the top of the module 
> method list.
> ex:
> animal Module_Info
> animal_a
> animal_b
> 
> 
> Again, 64 bit 4D is not going to like this.  Ideas to solve this, or do 
> I just forego the ' module headers'?
> 
> Thanks
> Chip
> 
> 
> On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 16:27:07 +0100, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech wrote:
>> Hi Chip,
>> Yes, we've been doing that for years also ... and sometimes a dot, which
>> also is not allowed any more.
>> We've changed them all to "aa..."
>> 
>> Pat
>> 
>> On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 16:24, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I use an underscore to start the name of methods which I want to
>>> 'float' to the top of the method list.
>>> I.E. _Conventions
>>> 
>>> What allowed character(s) can I use instead?
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Chip
>>> 
>>> On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 06:03:27 +, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech wrote:
 underscore prefixes are reserved for internal features,
 for plugins in particular.
 
 in the past, they were used to auto-save 4D Write/View/Draw plugin areas.
 I don't know if there are any other plugins that take advantage of
 the implicit association,
 but to avoid unintended consequences, it's better to avoid them if at
 all possible.
 
 2019/08/17 8:17、Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech
 <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:
 - methods which start with Underscore are not allowed?
 
 
 
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Re: _ as first character in Method Name [was 64 bit...]

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

from my 64 Bit compatibility report:
"Naming Conventions
If Object Notation is enabled, naming conventions of items must not 
conflict with the object notation format. Even if Object Notation is 
not enabled, an MSC verify will complain.
"

and 4D then processes to list all method names, and forms (1) with a 
space in their names


On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 11:12:57 -0500, John DeSoi via 4D_Tech wrote:
> Why is 64 bit 4D not going to like it? Spaces are still allowed in 
> method names.
> 
> You could also use animal__Module_Info (2 underscores) to keep it at 
> the top.
> 
> John DeSoi, Ph.D.
> 
> 
>> On Aug 19, 2019, at 10:38 AM, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>> This causes the 'module headers' to float to the top of the module 
>> method list.
>> ex:
>> animal Module_Info
>> animal_a
>> animal_b
>> 
>> 
>> Again, 64 bit 4D is not going to like this.  Ideas to solve this, or do 
>> I just forego the ' module headers'?
> 
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Re: _ as first character in Method Name [was 64 bit...]

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

I agree. I haven't found anything indicating a leading underscore is not
allowed. Miyako said it's discouraged to avoid unintended consequences.
That's a lot different than not allowed.

I'm using, and compiling, leading underscore methods in 17r6 without
issues.

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 9:13 AM John DeSoi via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> Why is 64 bit 4D not going to like it? Spaces are still allowed in method
> names.
>

-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

What can be said, can be said clearly,
and what you can’t say, you should shut up about

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Re: _ as first character in Method Name [was 64 bit...]

[John DeSoi via 4D_Tech]

Why is 64 bit 4D not going to like it? Spaces are still allowed in method names.

You could also use animal__Module_Info (2 underscores) to keep it at the top.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.


> On Aug 19, 2019, at 10:38 AM, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> This causes the 'module headers' to float to the top of the module 
> method list.
> ex:
> animal Module_Info
> animal_a
> animal_b
> 
> 
> Again, 64 bit 4D is not going to like this.  Ideas to solve this, or do 
> I just forego the ' module headers'?

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Re: _ as first character in Method Name [was 64 bit...]

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

related...

I name project methods in 'modules', that is the first 3 - 7 characters 
are the same.
i.e. animal_
I also have a 'header method', which is all comments and has a summary 
of the function of the module. I currently name these 'module headers' 
with the module name + space + 'Module_Info'.
ex: animal Module_Info

This causes the 'module headers' to float to the top of the module 
method list.
ex:
animal Module_Info
animal_a
animal_b


Again, 64 bit 4D is not going to like this.  Ideas to solve this, or do 
I just forego the ' module headers'?

Thanks
Chip


On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 16:27:07 +0100, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech wrote:
> Hi Chip,
> Yes, we've been doing that for years also ... and sometimes a dot, which
> also is not allowed any more.
> We've changed them all to "aa..."
> 
> Pat
> 
> On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 16:24, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> I use an underscore to start the name of methods which I want to
>> 'float' to the top of the method list.
>> I.E. _Conventions
>> 
>> What allowed character(s) can I use instead?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Chip
>> 
>> On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 06:03:27 +, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech wrote:
>>> underscore prefixes are reserved for internal features,
>>> for plugins in particular.
>>> 
>>> in the past, they were used to auto-save 4D Write/View/Draw plugin areas.
>>> I don't know if there are any other plugins that take advantage of
>>> the implicit association,
>>> but to avoid unintended consequences, it's better to avoid them if at
>>> all possible.
>>> 
>>> 2019/08/17 8:17、Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech
>>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:
>>> - methods which start with Underscore are not allowed?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> **
>>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
>>> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
>>> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
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Re: _ as first character in Method Name [was 64 bit...]

[Narinder Chandi via 4D_Tech]

We have used digits for years, e.g. 00MyMethod, 000MyMethod2, etc. I haven't 
checked yet if digit prefixes for methods are still valid in v17 though!

Regards,
 
Narinder Chandi,
ToolBox Systems Ltd.
-- 

-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com> on behalf of 4D Tech Mailing List 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Reply-To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Date: Monday, 19 August 2019 at 16:27
To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Pat Bensky 
Subject: Re: _ as first character in Method Name [was 64 bit...]

Hi Chip,
Yes, we've been doing that for years also ... and sometimes a dot, which
also is not allowed any more.
We've changed them all to "aa..."

Pat

On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 16:24, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> I use an underscore to start the name of methods which I want to
> 'float' to the top of the method list.
> I.E. _Conventions
>
> What allowed character(s) can I use instead?
>
> Thanks
> Chip
>
> On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 06:03:27 +, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech wrote:
> > underscore prefixes are reserved for internal features,
> > for plugins in particular.
> >
> > in the past, they were used to auto-save 4D Write/View/Draw plugin 
areas.
> > I don't know if there are any other plugins that take advantage of
> > the implicit association,
> > but to avoid unintended consequences, it's better to avoid them if at
> > all possible.
> >
> > 2019/08/17 8:17、Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech
> > <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:
> > - methods which start with Underscore are not allowed?
> >
> >
> >
> > **
> > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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> > Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
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Re: _ as first character in Method Name [was 64 bit...]

[Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech]

Hi Chip,
Yes, we've been doing that for years also ... and sometimes a dot, which
also is not allowed any more.
We've changed them all to "aa..."

Pat

On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 16:24, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> I use an underscore to start the name of methods which I want to
> 'float' to the top of the method list.
> I.E. _Conventions
>
> What allowed character(s) can I use instead?
>
> Thanks
> Chip
>
> On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 06:03:27 +, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech wrote:
> > underscore prefixes are reserved for internal features,
> > for plugins in particular.
> >
> > in the past, they were used to auto-save 4D Write/View/Draw plugin areas.
> > I don't know if there are any other plugins that take advantage of
> > the implicit association,
> > but to avoid unintended consequences, it's better to avoid them if at
> > all possible.
> >
> > 2019/08/17 8:17、Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech
> > <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:
> > - methods which start with Underscore are not allowed?
> >
> >
> >
> > **
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