Re: [AI] Examinations
On Mon, 2010-09-06 at 21:41 +0530, Swasti Mathur wrote: hello madam, my views are as follows: first of all to reduce dependability of vi candidates on scribes for appearing in exams, where ever possible use of assistive technology must be laid amphysis. for eg., few management exams are now conducted on line. as these are computer based exams, it is very practical to make use of jaws or other screen readers. such exams also overcome the hinderence of bias by examiner towards Vi candidates either too libral or too harsh as pointed by one of our friend. these technological advancements must be accomodated. secondly, There should not be any stringint rules to be complied with while arranging for a writer. in place of it, invigilator in charge should be very dedicated towards his/her duty because many times i came across people who take a very good writer and they themselves dont do anything other than sitting and in place the entire paper is solved by the scribe. such practises are dubious raising serious questions on the capability of entire vi community. people tends to develop a mallaicious tendency towards us. most of the time invigilators are not found on the duty or sitting there and engaging themselves in some other chores. they should be very alert and see that upto what extent scribe is assisting the candidate. is candidate herself is answering questions or they are ansered by writer? this practice also act as a partiality against other vi candidates. writer should be always from the same field or must be assosiated with the subject concerning the examination for which a vi candidate is appearing. writer must be in no case be arranged by the body conducting exams. this must entirely lie in the domain of vi candidate appearing for exam. questions of pictorial presentations must in every case be replaced by theoritical questions. in many examinations there is no such provision like in management exams. these exams have complex data to be interpreted. as i am aiming at CAT, FMS, XAT, SNAP etc. inclusion of screen readers will be a very cozy step in this direction. hope my opinions will add to this bettle against present dogmas. regards swasti Mathur Sandeep Gautam wrote: Dear all, the problem of a scribe is common to all VI people who are student or appearing for one or other exam (either for job etc.) I know one person, who is a graduate from very reputed college in Delhi and speaks very fluent, impressive, correct and intelligent English. but, when he is told to type a paper, he even don't know the spelling of that and other so simple words. . this was because he studied from audio material and with the help of readers and got high colours with the help of a intelligent scribe. This draws very bad image for VI person as it shows VI persons got pass in high colours due to the efficiency of good scribe ( although opposite cases are also there). I say, why we depend on good or bad writer? why we depend on his/her (writer) understanding or knowledge of spellings? When we use JAWS or Talks to access machines or informations by our own without any scribe, then, why we need a scribe to evaluate our capability and academic knowledge? We should have a simple and single law to use a computer (desktop/laptop) to appear any exam and, diagram and figure questions should be replaced with equally weighted theory questions. one practical difficulty appears in my mind that how examiner will respond to the computer typed answer sheets because it is clear from the answer sheet that this is of a VI candidate ( he could be too liberal or too rigid). bye Sandeep G Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at
Re: [AI] examinations
Hi why do you make my life more complicated. I am sick of your brains it makes me think too much.. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Pranav Lal pranav@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [AI] examinations Hi Prateek and all, 1. I would agree with your suggestions. One point though and apologies if this has already been covered. Braille or tactile diagrams do need to be used for rendering certain parts of question papers. Also, a blind candidate could draw tactile diagrams as answers to questions. Think of geometrical proofs that one has to show in class 9 CBSE exams. 2. The choice to use a computer, typewriter or whatever should be with the candidate. 3. What is the scope of these regulations? For instance, are these also applicable to exams such as the GRE or professional exams such as the MCP (Microsoft Certified Professional)? 4. If we are talking about the candidate taking the exam on a computer, how will the security of the answer paper be ensured? I am thinking of a situation where a candidate gets an unexpected result in an exam and then the matter goes to court. When the answer paper is displayed, the candidate can claim that the file has been tampered with. Of course, this would be possible to do in the current paper based system too. I am not so much interested in the technical controls since there are plenty of options but what about the process of applying these controls? 5. If a candidate is accused of cheeting, where is the burden of proof? Is it on the candidate or on the accuser? How will this play out when using assistive devices? Pranav Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
in my view, difference of one acadamic year for a a scribe doesn't make any difference provided that he / she belongs to same field for which the candidate is from. of course, invigilation must be adiquately strict. i strongly uphold the idea of not having any percentage limits for a scribe. in many exams it is really simple to include computer based examination for us. in order to make rules more flexible, choice could be given to choose between computer based test (CBT) or writing exams with scribe's assistance. in my previous mail i forgot to mention about use of assistive technology in cat examination. IIM authority gives facility of magnifying software for low vission candidates. if they can accomodate use of such technology for low vission candidates, why can't they be asked to include screen readers as well? i dont advocate suggestion of writing exams in brail as it involves many perplexcities as pointed by many members. and also, it is a very tedium task to write 80 90 pages in brail. but, obviously question papers can be provided in brail to them who wish. examining authority should in no case compele students to take writer selected by them (authority). even if choice is given than also writer would not be capable of fulfilling our expectations. writers have the grand responsibility because our triumphant depends on their dexterity of flawless writing and reading! and thats all! these were my ideas. rest depends on you mam!!! Kartik Sawhney wrote: According to me, there should be no rules regarding the qualifications of the writer whatsoever. The only golden rule should be strict invigilation and nothing else. A scribe one year lower also causes a No. of problems in technical and professional examinations wherein the technicalities of the question or the diagram etc. cannot be properly explained to the candidate by him/her as he/she has absolutely no ideas. -Kartik On 9/9/10, Swasti Mathur swastimat...@gmail.com wrote: in CBSE board rules for scribe are very linient. they dont compel neiter to have writer from different field or subject nor have any upper or lower percentage limits. a very simple rule which is to be followed is that writer should be in a standard less than the candidate is appearing for exam. candidates are permited to bring there own writers. a minor loophole exist there that scribe should not be in blood relation with candidate, implying sibling of vi candidate could not be writer of the candidate. this in my view is not in any way problematic issue as there are many people around us who fulfill above norms. why not to have such flexible rules for all exams which are simple to be abide with? madam, lets not focus on making all exams computer based. i agree that there are many technical issues involved in doing so. i know it will be a troublesome step for many as technology has not maneuvered all around india. i too hold antagonistic views for making all exams computer based for vi candidates. but, it is really easy to make use of screen readers in those exams which are already computer based thereby reducing dependability on scribe. what's the harm in doing so when our vi folks will become independent? Kanchan Pamnani wrote: Thanks friends I have been reading all the mails and should start compiling them next weekend so if there are more issues lets discuss them immediately. 1. There will be no compromise on Candidate's right to choose his scribe and 2. At this stage we cannot insist that all exams be taken on line-sorry techies you need to be practical about this. We are talking about the country and all exams. Lets look at other issues and dont waste time on the above 2. Maybe we can think of different kinds of exams and their pecularities. Some years ago National Federation of the Blind had won a judgement which stated that the Blind can give the U P S E in braille. I needed to know if anyone has really done it in braille or has anyone even heard of a person who did it in braille. I need to know the experience. Thanks Kanchan Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons
Re: [AI] examinations
Hello Mam, In addition to the points mentioned by Prateek Sir, I wanted to share some of the insights that I've garnered from special accomodations currently offered by Educational Testing Services (ETS) to take GRE, TOEFL and other exams for students with disabilities across the world. First of all, ETS is running a seperate committee that scrutinize the request for accomodation on individual case by case basis. I am not matured enough to comment on the logistical complications involved in having a seperate committee. However, in my humble opinion, it would be really helpful for all individuals with diverse range of disabilities, if UPSC and UGC have a special committee to evaluate and offer special accomodations on individual case-by-case basis. There are certain accomodations provided by ets. Some of them were classified as standard accomodations i.e., extended test taking time, extra breaks and some of them were special accomodations i.e., braille question papers along with braille tactile diagrams, question papers with extra large fonts, dark fonts on the light back ground etc . If your intellectual, physical and or psychiatric disabilities requires you to have some special accomodation that we can't imagine, it needs to be properly documented by physicians. ETS also seek a document to know whether you are using/ used these kinds of accomodation in the institutions you studied in the past and if yes, get a letter of support. If you could log on to ETS website www.ets.org you can see documenting/ accomodation requesting procedures. In my humble opinion, we must have a general acomodation documentation provisions for exam takers with disabilities ( like our railway concession form) so that we don't need to get accomodation letter for each and every exam that we are appearing. Our accomodation document must clearly specify whether we are having a disability of permenant / progressive nature. In another e-mail, Vamshi sir has pointed out an example of a person writing exams with the support of his feet. ETS will take these requests in to specialaccomodation category. They do offer both paper/ pencil based test and computer based test. If you would like to take computer based test and if you feel like you need some support, ETS will allow and you can request a writer for your exam. if you want, you can also request both readers and writers. As for as the scribe (e.g., reader and writer) is concerned, ETS is taking complete responsibility for providing a trained person for you and they are reasonably good at reading the graphs and diagrams for you. They also do provide sign language interpretations. When I was taking GRE and TOEFL in 2003, there were no provisions for using screen reading applications but I am not sure, how it is working now. Please feel free to shoot me one e-mail, to get your doubts clarified. If you feel like, I can be of any help in finalizing the draft ( ( e.g., reading, writing, summarizing ) please let me know. Thanking You. Your's Sathiyaprakash. On 9/9/10, prateek aggarwal prateekagarwa...@gmail.com wrote: First of all, My sincere appreciation and thanks to our dear kanchan mam for taking this in hand. Really, the issue of scribe is burning, which touches almost everyone of us. Thanks a lot, mam, we really needed this from long. i’m aware you’ve been working assiduously for the scribes issue, and I just have no words to thank for what you have done for the visually impaired community so far. Coming on the point: I’ve been following this thread since a few days, and I think almost all the important things have been already suggested. In fact, some of the suggestions given were really amazing, which I believe should be framed in the guidelines. Following are some of my suggestions, which are based on my personal experiences: 1.the rule which states that the scribe should not be from the same stream looks absolutely inappropriate to me. specially, in technical and professional courses. God knows the problem I face while understanding the questions if there are some symbols and diagrams in it. 2.I don’t say that all exams should be online for everyone, but at least, they should be taken on computer either online or offline for those who wish to take it that way. For instance, if I’m comfortable doing it on computer, why can’t I do it? 3. in some exams, i found rules which states that the maximum marks obtained by the scribe should not be more then 50% for instance. i strongly discard this: when the scribe is already one standard lower then the candidate, what is the logic behind imposing such Arbitrary rules. 4. I don’t like the idea of having special centres for VI persons, as this makes the process too intricate for those who live in far flung areas of the state. While we are heading towards inclusion and mainstreaming, the idea of having specialize centres for exams sound
Re: [AI] Examinations
The taking of exams should assistive technology is a very good suggestion. But before that, it has to be ensured that the question papers do not contain any picture/diagramatic questions. Or else, it will become increasngly difficult for the VI candidate to take the examinations successfully. On 9/10/10, Swasti Mathur swastimat...@gmail.com wrote: in my view, difference of one acadamic year for a a scribe doesn't make any difference provided that he / she belongs to same field for which the candidate is from. of course, invigilation must be adiquately strict. i strongly uphold the idea of not having any percentage limits for a scribe. in many exams it is really simple to include computer based examination for us. in order to make rules more flexible, choice could be given to choose between computer based test (CBT) or writing exams with scribe's assistance. in my previous mail i forgot to mention about use of assistive technology in cat examination. IIM authority gives facility of magnifying software for low vission candidates. if they can accomodate use of such technology for low vission candidates, why can't they be asked to include screen readers as well? i dont advocate suggestion of writing exams in brail as it involves many perplexcities as pointed by many members. and also, it is a very tedium task to write 80 90 pages in brail. but, obviously question papers can be provided in brail to them who wish. examining authority should in no case compele students to take writer selected by them (authority). even if choice is given than also writer would not be capable of fulfilling our expectations. writers have the grand responsibility because our triumphant depends on their dexterity of flawless writing and reading! and thats all! these were my ideas. rest depends on you mam!!! Kartik Sawhney wrote: According to me, there should be no rules regarding the qualifications of the writer whatsoever. The only golden rule should be strict invigilation and nothing else. A scribe one year lower also causes a No. of problems in technical and professional examinations wherein the technicalities of the question or the diagram etc. cannot be properly explained to the candidate by him/her as he/she has absolutely no ideas. -Kartik On 9/9/10, Swasti Mathur swastimat...@gmail.com wrote: in CBSE board rules for scribe are very linient. they dont compel neiter to have writer from different field or subject nor have any upper or lower percentage limits. a very simple rule which is to be followed is that writer should be in a standard less than the candidate is appearing for exam. candidates are permited to bring there own writers. a minor loophole exist there that scribe should not be in blood relation with candidate, implying sibling of vi candidate could not be writer of the candidate. this in my view is not in any way problematic issue as there are many people around us who fulfill above norms. why not to have such flexible rules for all exams which are simple to be abide with? madam, lets not focus on making all exams computer based. i agree that there are many technical issues involved in doing so. i know it will be a troublesome step for many as technology has not maneuvered all around india. i too hold antagonistic views for making all exams computer based for vi candidates. but, it is really easy to make use of screen readers in those exams which are already computer based thereby reducing dependability on scribe. what's the harm in doing so when our vi folks will become independent? Kanchan Pamnani wrote: Thanks friends I have been reading all the mails and should start compiling them next weekend so if there are more issues lets discuss them immediately. 1. There will be no compromise on Candidate's right to choose his scribe and 2. At this stage we cannot insist that all exams be taken on line-sorry techies you need to be practical about this. We are talking about the country and all exams. Lets look at other issues and dont waste time on the above 2. Maybe we can think of different kinds of exams and their pecularities. Some years ago National Federation of the Blind had won a judgement which stated that the Blind can give the U P S E in braille. I needed to know if anyone has really done it in braille or has anyone even heard of a person who did it in braille. I need to know the experience. Thanks Kanchan Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at:
Re: [AI] Examinations
I would like to add one more quick point with relevant to Rajesh sir's point on taking exam in braille. In my opinion, we should have a provision for request question papers in braille so that we can read and digest well. In addition, we can also get tactile diagrams. Simultaneously, we should have the provision for requesting a scribe, basically a writer so that he/ she could record all of our responses and our answer sheets will undergo typical and fair evaluation. As long as our requests are reasonable, there is nothing wrong in providing more than one accomodations for individuals with disabilities. I personally do not aware anyone who took their civil service or other exams in braille. However, Vetri has taken his GRE exam in braille. Again, the the question papers were provided in braille and a writer recorded all of his responses. On 9/8/10, Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Yes I agree with you on this issue but since we had a judgement in our favour I want to know if it has ever been used and the result. K Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations I don't subscribe to idea of taking public exams in Braille. It would mark out papers of VI separately, beside requiring valuers to learn Braille. Or they would have to be valued separately by Braille knowing persons, which is not fair. Simple solution of taking scribe by candidate without any undue restrictions is fair enough. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:35 AM To: Access India Subject: [AI] Examinations Thanks friends I have been reading all the mails and should start compiling them next weekend so if there are more issues lets discuss them immediately. 1. There will be no compromise on Candidate's right to choose his scribe and 2. At this stage we cannot insist that all exams be taken on line-sorry techies you need to be practical about this. We are talking about the country and all exams. Lets look at other issues and dont waste time on the above 2. Maybe we can think of different kinds of exams and their pecularities. Some years ago National Federation of the Blind had won a judgement which stated that the Blind can give the U P S E in braille. I needed to know if anyone has really done it in braille or has anyone even heard of a person who did it in braille. I need to know the experience. Thanks Kanchan Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ
Re: [AI] Examinations
There has to be a sepret exam center for the visually challenged candidates in state level. The experienced persons should be appointed to look after the examinees and not only this, any knowledgeable and suitable visually challenged person should also be invited to moniter the exams. this type of solution can work well as far net exam conducted by UGC, and PCS and PSC exams conducted by the concern authorities by respective states. As far as I know, UPSC is providing such facility I.E. sepret and dedicated exam center for the visually challenged in delhi region. Regards, Akhilesh. On 9/9/10, Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Yes I agree with you on this issue but since we had a judgement in our favour I want to know if it has ever been used and the result. K Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations I don't subscribe to idea of taking public exams in Braille. It would mark out papers of VI separately, beside requiring valuers to learn Braille. Or they would have to be valued separately by Braille knowing persons, which is not fair. Simple solution of taking scribe by candidate without any undue restrictions is fair enough. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:35 AM To: Access India Subject: [AI] Examinations Thanks friends I have been reading all the mails and should start compiling them next weekend so if there are more issues lets discuss them immediately. 1. There will be no compromise on Candidate's right to choose his scribe and 2. At this stage we cannot insist that all exams be taken on line-sorry techies you need to be practical about this. We are talking about the country and all exams. Lets look at other issues and dont waste time on the above 2. Maybe we can think of different kinds of exams and their pecularities. Some years ago National Federation of the Blind had won a judgement which stated that the Blind can give the U P S E in braille. I needed to know if anyone has really done it in braille or has anyone even heard of a person who did it in braille. I need to know the experience. Thanks Kanchan Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
I thought that having a center for the disabled is quite a bad idea. We need a special room but within the same center as others. I know that U P S E is doing this but I think it is pure tokenism. I rather have a better writer than a special center. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: akhilesh akhil.akhi...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations There has to be a sepret exam center for the visually challenged candidates in state level. The experienced persons should be appointed to look after the examinees and not only this, any knowledgeable and suitable visually challenged person should also be invited to moniter the exams. this type of solution can work well as far net exam conducted by UGC, and PCS and PSC exams conducted by the concern authorities by respective states. As far as I know, UPSC is providing such facility I.E. sepret and dedicated exam center for the visually challenged in delhi region. Regards, Akhilesh. On 9/9/10, Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Yes I agree with you on this issue but since we had a judgement in our favour I want to know if it has ever been used and the result. K Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations I don't subscribe to idea of taking public exams in Braille. It would mark out papers of VI separately, beside requiring valuers to learn Braille. Or they would have to be valued separately by Braille knowing persons, which is not fair. Simple solution of taking scribe by candidate without any undue restrictions is fair enough. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:35 AM To: Access India Subject: [AI] Examinations Thanks friends I have been reading all the mails and should start compiling them next weekend so if there are more issues lets discuss them immediately. 1. There will be no compromise on Candidate's right to choose his scribe and 2. At this stage we cannot insist that all exams be taken on line-sorry techies you need to be practical about this. We are talking about the country and all exams. Lets look at other issues and dont waste time on the above 2. Maybe we can think of different kinds of exams and their pecularities. Some years ago National Federation of the Blind had won a judgement which stated that the Blind can give the U P S E in braille. I needed to know if anyone has really done it in braille or has anyone even heard of a person who did it in braille. I need to know the experience. Thanks Kanchan Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo
Re: [AI] Examinations
Ok mam. fine. but, if the visually challenged will be allocated different different center it'd be a very probalmatic to implement the reforms that we're trying to bring. So the one amendment can be taken into account in this regard. the center has to be with other candidates but all the visually challenged candidates shal be allotted the same center. it would definetly ensure that all the guidelines would be known to the examination authority, and they'll raise the less objection about the scribe. they'll also aware about the problems of visually challenged candidates very well, and it will ensure the conduct of free and fair exams. Thanks, Akhilesh. On 9/9/10, Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: I thought that having a center for the disabled is quite a bad idea. We need a special room but within the same center as others. I know that U P S E is doing this but I think it is pure tokenism. I rather have a better writer than a special center. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: akhilesh akhil.akhi...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations There has to be a sepret exam center for the visually challenged candidates in state level. The experienced persons should be appointed to look after the examinees and not only this, any knowledgeable and suitable visually challenged person should also be invited to moniter the exams. this type of solution can work well as far net exam conducted by UGC, and PCS and PSC exams conducted by the concern authorities by respective states. As far as I know, UPSC is providing such facility I.E. sepret and dedicated exam center for the visually challenged in delhi region. Regards, Akhilesh. On 9/9/10, Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Yes I agree with you on this issue but since we had a judgement in our favour I want to know if it has ever been used and the result. K Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations I don't subscribe to idea of taking public exams in Braille. It would mark out papers of VI separately, beside requiring valuers to learn Braille. Or they would have to be valued separately by Braille knowing persons, which is not fair. Simple solution of taking scribe by candidate without any undue restrictions is fair enough. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:35 AM To: Access India Subject: [AI] Examinations Thanks friends I have been reading all the mails and should start compiling them next weekend so if there are more issues lets discuss them immediately. 1. There will be no compromise on Candidate's right to choose his scribe and 2. At this stage we cannot insist that all exams be taken on line-sorry techies you need to be practical about this. We are talking about the country and all exams. Lets look at other issues and dont waste time on the above 2. Maybe we can think of different kinds of exams and their pecularities. Some years ago National Federation of the Blind had won a judgement which stated that the Blind can give the U P S E in braille. I needed to know if anyone has really done it in braille or has anyone even heard of a person who did it in braille. I need to know the experience. Thanks Kanchan Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss
Re: [AI] Examinations
this means that a person will be forced to travel 500KMS to attend his exam. here in chhattisgarh, the government had setup a separate centres for disabled persons, and the centre was far of from their residence. please don't compare Delhi with rest of India. - Original Message - From: akhilesh akhil.akhi...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations There has to be a sepret exam center for the visually challenged candidates in state level. The experienced persons should be appointed to look after the examinees and not only this, any knowledgeable and suitable visually challenged person should also be invited to moniter the exams. this type of solution can work well as far net exam conducted by UGC, and PCS and PSC exams conducted by the concern authorities by respective states. As far as I know, UPSC is providing such facility I.E. sepret and dedicated exam center for the visually challenged in delhi region. Regards, Akhilesh. On 9/9/10, Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Yes I agree with you on this issue but since we had a judgement in our favour I want to know if it has ever been used and the result. K Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations I don't subscribe to idea of taking public exams in Braille. It would mark out papers of VI separately, beside requiring valuers to learn Braille. Or they would have to be valued separately by Braille knowing persons, which is not fair. Simple solution of taking scribe by candidate without any undue restrictions is fair enough. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:35 AM To: Access India Subject: [AI] Examinations Thanks friends I have been reading all the mails and should start compiling them next weekend so if there are more issues lets discuss them immediately. 1. There will be no compromise on Candidate's right to choose his scribe and 2. At this stage we cannot insist that all exams be taken on line-sorry techies you need to be practical about this. We are talking about the country and all exams. Lets look at other issues and dont waste time on the above 2. Maybe we can think of different kinds of exams and their pecularities. Some years ago National Federation of the Blind had won a judgement which stated that the Blind can give the U P S E in braille. I needed to know if anyone has really done it in braille or has anyone even heard of a person who did it in braille. I need to know the experience. Thanks Kanchan Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons
Re: [AI] Examinations
in CBSE board rules for scribe are very linient. they dont compel neiter to have writer from different field or subject nor have any upper or lower percentage limits. a very simple rule which is to be followed is that writer should be in a standard less than the candidate is appearing for exam. candidates are permited to bring there own writers. a minor loophole exist there that scribe should not be in blood relation with candidate, implying sibling of vi candidate could not be writer of the candidate. this in my view is not in any way problematic issue as there are many people around us who fulfill above norms. why not to have such flexible rules for all exams which are simple to be abide with? madam, lets not focus on making all exams computer based. i agree that there are many technical issues involved in doing so. i know it will be a troublesome step for many as technology has not maneuvered all around india. i too hold antagonistic views for making all exams computer based for vi candidates. but, it is really easy to make use of screen readers in those exams which are already computer based thereby reducing dependability on scribe. what's the harm in doing so when our vi folks will become independent? Kanchan Pamnani wrote: Thanks friends I have been reading all the mails and should start compiling them next weekend so if there are more issues lets discuss them immediately. 1. There will be no compromise on Candidate's right to choose his scribe and 2. At this stage we cannot insist that all exams be taken on line-sorry techies you need to be practical about this. We are talking about the country and all exams. Lets look at other issues and dont waste time on the above 2. Maybe we can think of different kinds of exams and their pecularities. Some years ago National Federation of the Blind had won a judgement which stated that the Blind can give the U P S E in braille. I needed to know if anyone has really done it in braille or has anyone even heard of a person who did it in braille. I need to know the experience. Thanks Kanchan Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
According to me, there should be no rules regarding the qualifications of the writer whatsoever. The only golden rule should be strict invigilation and nothing else. A scribe one year lower also causes a No. of problems in technical and professional examinations wherein the technicalities of the question or the diagram etc. cannot be properly explained to the candidate by him/her as he/she has absolutely no ideas. -Kartik On 9/9/10, Swasti Mathur swastimat...@gmail.com wrote: in CBSE board rules for scribe are very linient. they dont compel neiter to have writer from different field or subject nor have any upper or lower percentage limits. a very simple rule which is to be followed is that writer should be in a standard less than the candidate is appearing for exam. candidates are permited to bring there own writers. a minor loophole exist there that scribe should not be in blood relation with candidate, implying sibling of vi candidate could not be writer of the candidate. this in my view is not in any way problematic issue as there are many people around us who fulfill above norms. why not to have such flexible rules for all exams which are simple to be abide with? madam, lets not focus on making all exams computer based. i agree that there are many technical issues involved in doing so. i know it will be a troublesome step for many as technology has not maneuvered all around india. i too hold antagonistic views for making all exams computer based for vi candidates. but, it is really easy to make use of screen readers in those exams which are already computer based thereby reducing dependability on scribe. what's the harm in doing so when our vi folks will become independent? Kanchan Pamnani wrote: Thanks friends I have been reading all the mails and should start compiling them next weekend so if there are more issues lets discuss them immediately. 1. There will be no compromise on Candidate's right to choose his scribe and 2. At this stage we cannot insist that all exams be taken on line-sorry techies you need to be practical about this. We are talking about the country and all exams. Lets look at other issues and dont waste time on the above 2. Maybe we can think of different kinds of exams and their pecularities. Some years ago National Federation of the Blind had won a judgement which stated that the Blind can give the U P S E in braille. I needed to know if anyone has really done it in braille or has anyone even heard of a person who did it in braille. I need to know the experience. Thanks Kanchan Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
Dear Kanchan, I too endorse to your opinion of having the same centre with the other sighted candidates. We cannot expect each and everything to be happened in our favor. Let's not try to disconnect from the Mainstream of our Society. Regards, Amit Bhatt - Original Message - From: Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations I thought that having a center for the disabled is quite a bad idea. We need a special room but within the same center as others. I know that U P S E is doing this but I think it is pure tokenism. I rather have a better writer than a special center. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: akhilesh akhil.akhi...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations There has to be a sepret exam center for the visually challenged candidates in state level. The experienced persons should be appointed to look after the examinees and not only this, any knowledgeable and suitable visually challenged person should also be invited to moniter the exams. this type of solution can work well as far net exam conducted by UGC, and PCS and PSC exams conducted by the concern authorities by respective states. As far as I know, UPSC is providing such facility I.E. sepret and dedicated exam center for the visually challenged in delhi region. Regards, Akhilesh. On 9/9/10, Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Yes I agree with you on this issue but since we had a judgement in our favour I want to know if it has ever been used and the result. K Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations I don't subscribe to idea of taking public exams in Braille. It would mark out papers of VI separately, beside requiring valuers to learn Braille. Or they would have to be valued separately by Braille knowing persons, which is not fair. Simple solution of taking scribe by candidate without any undue restrictions is fair enough. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:35 AM To: Access India Subject: [AI] Examinations Thanks friends I have been reading all the mails and should start compiling them next weekend so if there are more issues lets discuss them immediately. 1. There will be no compromise on Candidate's right to choose his scribe and 2. At this stage we cannot insist that all exams be taken on line-sorry techies you need to be practical about this. We are talking about the country and all exams. Lets look at other issues and dont waste time on the above 2. Maybe we can think of different kinds of exams and their pecularities. Some years ago National Federation of the Blind had won a judgement which stated that the Blind can give the U P S E in braille. I needed to know if anyone has really done it in braille or has anyone even heard of a person who did it in braille. I need to know the experience. Thanks Kanchan Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman
Re: [AI] Examinations
You very well said Rajesh bhai!! Although thought of using Braille in the examination was also in my mind for a while but if we deeply analyze it's practical aspects on the ground level, it is not wise to use Braille. Using Braille means that the team to evaluate or check the papers will be deputed separately. There is a huge possibility of increasing such problems. Along with you I would also say that making so many norms in order to use a Scribe is unnecessary. it is quite enough that the Writer should be one class junior than the VI Candidate. I even do not see any logic of using the Scribe who has less marks than the applicant when the Scribe is already one standard lower than the examinee. Regards, Amit Bhatt - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations I don't subscribe to idea of taking public exams in Braille. It would mark out papers of VI separately, beside requiring valuers to learn Braille. Or they would have to be valued separately by Braille knowing persons, which is not fair. Simple solution of taking scribe by candidate without any undue restrictions is fair enough. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:35 AM To: Access India Subject: [AI] Examinations Thanks friends I have been reading all the mails and should start compiling them next weekend so if there are more issues lets discuss them immediately. 1. There will be no compromise on Candidate's right to choose his scribe and 2. At this stage we cannot insist that all exams be taken on line-sorry techies you need to be practical about this. We are talking about the country and all exams. Lets look at other issues and dont waste time on the above 2. Maybe we can think of different kinds of exams and their pecularities. Some years ago National Federation of the Blind had won a judgement which stated that the Blind can give the U P S E in braille. I needed to know if anyone has really done it in braille or has anyone even heard of a person who did it in braille. I need to know the experience. Thanks Kanchan Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
[AI] Examinations
Thanks friends I have been reading all the mails and should start compiling them next weekend so if there are more issues lets discuss them immediately. 1. There will be no compromise on Candidate's right to choose his scribe and 2. At this stage we cannot insist that all exams be taken on line-sorry techies you need to be practical about this. We are talking about the country and all exams. Lets look at other issues and dont waste time on the above 2. Maybe we can think of different kinds of exams and their pecularities. Some years ago National Federation of the Blind had won a judgement which stated that the Blind can give the U P S E in braille. I needed to know if anyone has really done it in braille or has anyone even heard of a person who did it in braille. I need to know the experience. Thanks Kanchan Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
one universal guidelines should be framed to possess writer/scribe. the guideline must be mandatory for all the exam conducting authorities. - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations Well, braillers, what about evaluation? Do you want papers of VI to be valued by VI only, or would you insist valuers to learn Braille? -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Amit Bhatt Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 10:12 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations Well I too would not deny the fact that there is no better option than writing the exams on our own using the Assistive Technology or Computer. But if we want to use it just because some of the candidates are taking the help from their Writers, then use of Computer also seems to be futile and helpless to stop the cheating in the examination since Computer will be very useful to correct the spelling mistakes specially for those who are not that good in English spellings while writing a subjective Paper. I think currently the main theme of our on going discussion is Criteria and eligibility of Scribe, not about the Candidate whether he or she is honestly answering the papers or not. so better if we do not deviate from the original topic and do not discuss about cheating and copying in the exam. Otherwise this will be a endless debate and our motive of preparing the correct guidelines on Scribe eligibility will not be fulfilled, however, the problem of cheating will be remained there unless the Invigilator is very active. I would again say that how can you stop the sighted applicants who copy in the exam? So what my purpose is to say that doing swindle during the examinations is not our problem but the problem lies on the part of Invigilator and related authority who conduct the examination. As far as taking the Exams through Braille is concerned, the idea is good but then I would again say the time needs to be extended for writing the exams since practically writing Braille takes more energy as compare to use the pen and Braille cannot be faster than the print in writing in case of use of simple Braille-Slate. Yes, brailor can indeed be a very useful tool to overcome with the problem of speed but, now question is raised about how to arrange the Brailor, who would afford for those who cannot buy it and there are many such problems involved in the use of Brail script during the examination. So better if we continue with the use of Scribe. Regards, Amit Bhatt Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
I don't subscribe to idea of taking public exams in Braille. It would mark out papers of VI separately, beside requiring valuers to learn Braille. Or they would have to be valued separately by Braille knowing persons, which is not fair. Simple solution of taking scribe by candidate without any undue restrictions is fair enough. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:35 AM To: Access India Subject: [AI] Examinations Thanks friends I have been reading all the mails and should start compiling them next weekend so if there are more issues lets discuss them immediately. 1. There will be no compromise on Candidate's right to choose his scribe and 2. At this stage we cannot insist that all exams be taken on line-sorry techies you need to be practical about this. We are talking about the country and all exams. Lets look at other issues and dont waste time on the above 2. Maybe we can think of different kinds of exams and their pecularities. Some years ago National Federation of the Blind had won a judgement which stated that the Blind can give the U P S E in braille. I needed to know if anyone has really done it in braille or has anyone even heard of a person who did it in braille. I need to know the experience. Thanks Kanchan Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
Yes I agree with you on this issue but since we had a judgement in our favour I want to know if it has ever been used and the result. K Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations I don't subscribe to idea of taking public exams in Braille. It would mark out papers of VI separately, beside requiring valuers to learn Braille. Or they would have to be valued separately by Braille knowing persons, which is not fair. Simple solution of taking scribe by candidate without any undue restrictions is fair enough. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:35 AM To: Access India Subject: [AI] Examinations Thanks friends I have been reading all the mails and should start compiling them next weekend so if there are more issues lets discuss them immediately. 1. There will be no compromise on Candidate's right to choose his scribe and 2. At this stage we cannot insist that all exams be taken on line-sorry techies you need to be practical about this. We are talking about the country and all exams. Lets look at other issues and dont waste time on the above 2. Maybe we can think of different kinds of exams and their pecularities. Some years ago National Federation of the Blind had won a judgement which stated that the Blind can give the U P S E in braille. I needed to know if anyone has really done it in braille or has anyone even heard of a person who did it in braille. I need to know the experience. Thanks Kanchan Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
Once again, if the criteria is that for all competitive examinations, the scribe should be a student of class XII, and suppose I am taking my M.Tech. paper in Computer Sciences, then there will be a number of technical symbols and other stuff that the student would be clueless of. Who will suffer then? The VI candidate will have to suffer due to no fault of his. A better option would be to allow any writer, while the invigilation should be made much more strict. On 9/7/10, Srinivasu Chakravarthula sriniv...@srinivasu.org wrote: Well, now computers should be taught right from the school. When there's something is available, our students must learn and adopt. Even for sighted childre, computers are taught right from 1st std. Why not for blind students when it gives more independance? Sadly, most of the NGOs themselves do not aware about the advancement of technology. Of course a student should learn Braille to learn spellings and enjoy reading. On 9/7/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: braile is a good option, but, various NGOs for the blind are opposing the context. - Original Message - From: RENUKA WARRIER eren...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 6:22 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations In Kerala the candidates can write their exams in braille for the SSLC examination and the pictorial based questions are exumpted. For other exams there is no such rule though. E RENUKA, SECTION OFFICER, ICT CENTRE FOR VISUALLY CHALLENGED, CHMK LIBRARY, UNIVERSITY OF CALICUT CALICUT, UNIVERSITY P O, MALAPPURAM DISTRICT, KERALA. - Original Message - From: Swasti Mathur swastimat...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations hello madam, my views are as follows: first of all to reduce dependability of vi candidates on scribes for appearing in exams, where ever possible use of assistive technology must be laid amphysis. for eg., few management exams are now conducted on line. as these are computer based exams, it is very practical to make use of jaws or other screen readers. such exams also overcome the hinderence of bias by examiner towards Vi candidates either too libral or too harsh as pointed by one of our friend. these technological advancements must be accomodated. secondly, There should not be any stringint rules to be complied with while arranging for a writer. in place of it, invigilator in charge should be very dedicated towards his/her duty because many times i came across people who take a very good writer and they themselves dont do anything other than sitting and in place the entire paper is solved by the scribe. such practises are dubious raising serious questions on the capability of entire vi community. people tends to develop a mallaicious tendency towards us. most of the time invigilators are not found on the duty or sitting there and engaging themselves in some other chores. they should be very alert and see that upto what extent scribe is assisting the candidate. is candidate herself is answering questions or they are ansered by writer? this practice also act as a partiality against other vi candidates. writer should be always from the same field or must be assosiated with the subject concerning the examination for which a vi candidate is appearing. writer must be in no case be arranged by the body conducting exams. this must entirely lie in the domain of vi candidate appearing for exam. questions of pictorial presentations must in every case be replaced by theoritical questions. in many examinations there is no such provision like in management exams. these exams have complex data to be interpreted. as i am aiming at CAT, FMS, XAT, SNAP etc. inclusion of screen readers will be a very cozy step in this direction. hope my opinions will add to this bettle against present dogmas. regards swasti Mathur Sandeep Gautam wrote: Dear all, the problem of a scribe is common to all VI people who are student or appearing for one or other exam (either for job etc.) I know one person, who is a graduate from very reputed college in Delhi and speaks very fluent, impressive, correct and intelligent English. but, when he is told to type a paper, he even don't know the spelling of that and other so simple words. . this was because he studied from audio material and with the help of readers and got high colours with the help of a intelligent scribe. This draws very bad image for VI person as it shows VI persons got pass in high colours due to the efficiency of good scribe ( although opposite cases are also there). I say, why we depend on good or bad writer? why we depend on his/her (writer) understanding or knowledge of spellings? When we use JAWS or Talks to access machines or informations by our own without any scribe, then, why we need a scribe to evaluate our
Re: [AI] Examinations
Well I too would not deny the fact that there is no better option than writing the exams on our own using the Assistive Technology or Computer. But if we want to use it just because some of the candidates are taking the help from their Writers, then use of Computer also seems to be futile and helpless to stop the cheating in the examination since Computer will be very useful to correct the spelling mistakes specially for those who are not that good in English spellings while writing a subjective Paper. I think currently the main theme of our on going discussion is Criteria and eligibility of Scribe, not about the Candidate whether he or she is honestly answering the papers or not. so better if we do not deviate from the original topic and do not discuss about cheating and copying in the exam. Otherwise this will be a endless debate and our motive of preparing the correct guidelines on Scribe eligibility will not be fulfilled, however, the problem of cheating will be remained there unless the Invigilator is very active. I would again say that how can you stop the sighted applicants who copy in the exam? So what my purpose is to say that doing swindle during the examinations is not our problem but the problem lies on the part of Invigilator and related authority who conduct the examination. As far as taking the Exams through Braille is concerned, the idea is good but then I would again say the time needs to be extended for writing the exams since practically writing Braille takes more energy as compare to use the pen and Braille cannot be faster than the print in writing in case of use of simple Braille-Slate. Yes, brailor can indeed be a very useful tool to overcome with the problem of speed but, now question is raised about how to arrange the Brailor, who would afford for those who cannot buy it and there are many such problems involved in the use of Brail script during the examination. So better if we continue with the use of Scribe. Regards, Amit Bhatt Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
Again, we are deviating from the real theme. If someone has not been able to develop his skills then its a matter of skill development and I can just say that we should certainly enhance our skills but then the matter of skill enhancement has nothing to do with the Scribe eligibity and it's criteria. I would like to express my another opinion with an instance of a Car Driver and the owner of the Car. suppose I do hire a Driver for my Car and I want him to pick me from the Office and drop at home. I can just let him know the route if he is not aware, but I cannot teach him how to use the staring, gear and how to operate the car. Similarly, The candidates are not expected to tell their Scribe about how to write in the exam but we are just expected to tell him what to Write. So at least the Writer should be able to stand at our minimum comfort level. Regards, Amit Bhatt - Original Message - From: Sandeep Gautam sandeepgautam.n...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations Dear all, the problem of a scribe is common to all VI people who are student or appearing for one or other exam (either for job etc.) I know one person, who is a graduate from very reputed college in Delhi and speaks very fluent, impressive, correct and intelligent English. but, when he is told to type a paper, he even don't know the spelling of that and other so simple words. . this was because he studied from audio material and with the help of readers and got high colours with the help of a intelligent scribe. This draws very bad image for VI person as it shows VI persons got pass in high colours due to the efficiency of good scribe ( although opposite cases are also there). I say, why we depend on good or bad writer? why we depend on his/her (writer) understanding or knowledge of spellings? When we use JAWS or Talks to access machines or informations by our own without any scribe, then, why we need a scribe to evaluate our capability and academic knowledge? We should have a simple and single law to use a computer (desktop/laptop) to appear any exam and, diagram and figure questions should be replaced with equally weighted theory questions. one practical difficulty appears in my mind that how examiner will respond to the computer typed answer sheets because it is clear from the answer sheet that this is of a VI candidate ( he could be too liberal or too rigid). bye Sandeep G Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
Sorry for responding to the thread quite late. Was off the list due to other preoccupations. Responding to Rajesh\'s and Kanchan's mails, anyone who had appeared in the same exam 30 years ago are unlikely to be of help (in terms of informing how to solve questions), since exam patterns, the kind of questions asked and their intensity keep changing. 30 years ago, there may have been math questions, but the kind of questions I may solve now may have no relations with questions that long. So eligibility of that person, even though they may have been successful in the past and may have been working as bank official, is not going to help the candidate in an unacceptable way. I don't see why a scribe who has adequate knowledge level to understand and inform the candidate the actual meaning of the question, irrespective of age, experience or qualifications can be my scribe. Let's not forget that there will be invigilators who would ensure that I don't take advantage of my status as a blind person to get help from my scribe. So, to have a simple criteria that the scribe has not appeared in the same exam as the one I am taking in the last three years should be a good enough one. Subramani On 9/3/10, Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Rajesh, very complicated and too much emphasis on the candidate being able to prove and too many variables. anyway lets look at it in more details. The more complicated we make it the tougher it will be to live with later. Getting it passed is not the problem. Need to be practical. Kanchan - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations 1. I said should not have appeared in the past, primarily to satisfy paranoids. However, it is better dropped. Or at least, a reasonable time limit, say past three years, may be prescribed. However, it also will lay the onus of proving the non-appearance on the candidate or scribe which is difficult. 2. Upper age limit I mentioned to mean that scribe should not be ineligible merely due to upper age limit for taking the exam. So, this condition does not apply to exams where there is no age limit. Hence, anybody, say who cannot appear for M.A. part 2 in English, because she does not have M.A. part 1 pass certificate in English, will be able to be a scribe. So will be anybody who has done PG in say, physics, or PH.D. in anything but English, for that matter. Upper age limit will come into play when, say, I take a scribe for SBI exam where upper age limit is 28 years, and minimum qualification for applying is graduation. So, a person who is 35, but who is a graduate cannot be a scribe, for she could herself have taken the exam, but for her being overage. Here, anybody who does not have a graduation degree will be a scribe I know this condition will deviate a little from strictly having one year junior scribe, but I propose it to be a short eligibility criteria for all exams. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:13 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations 1. How is it possible to prove that someone did not give the exam in the past? If the writer is younger than the candidate it may be possible but if my mom wrote an exam eg. a exam for recruiting to SBI for you then how will you prove that she didnt sit for the same exam 30 years ago? 2 . Also there are many exams like M. A. which does not have an upper age limit for the candidate so any person who is about 22 years or more even 100 will be eligible to give the exam. Can such a person be a writer? I dont know lets analyse these situations more in depth. I had started drafting but I put it aside because I knew there were many complications. I have read Apoorva, Kartik,Rakesh and Vasu's views. Waiting for others. This affects each of us and at various times in our lives. I also understand that there is a feeling that there should be tactile questions and that all visual questions should have alternatives. This is a great leap forward. However the young visually challenged have to be taught this from school. Are our organisations either special schools or supplementary facilities ready for this? I can tell you that one of the turning points in the latest physiotherapy case was when I handed over tactile diagrams of the foot to the judges. how many organisations have these machines, how many will do it on time, how many readily teach their kids to read and understand these?Sorry for going off on a tangent. Lets get back to the real issue of the examinations. Kanchan - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday
Re: [AI] Examinations
Dear Rajesh bhai, Kanchan and others, I haven't tried to put my point across on Age limitation of Scribe against any suggestion or thought but I wanted to raise my own suggestion pertaining to eligibility criteria of Scribe. Following are some more points to be suggested from my end. 1. If the Visually Impaired candidate appearing in the exam like Music, the Writer should be from same stream. In Jan 2010, one of my friends in Delhi appeared in the exam conducted by Kendriya Vidyalay Sangathan for the post of Music teacher for Primary level. he was provided with the Writer who was studding in 9th standard and having no knowledge of Music. As a result, the child was not able to understand what the candidate is dictating him. It has happened since writing of Music has some special symbols, notations and so on. Secondly, the Candidate had to taken two exam in the same day and the Scribe was much tired seating and writing two exams one by another. By sharing this incidence, I just want to convey that such problems will always arrive if a Child of 9th Class writes an exam of higher level for the longer hours. The exam was indeed for the primary level teacher but we all know that the syllabus of such kind of examinations will not be as simple or easy as class 5th examination. hence, the Scribe should be only one standard junior to the standard of the Examinee. No matters whether Exam is being conducted for the primary, TGT, PGT or UGC level. According to me, my friend would have got the Scribe of Graduation level since he was already Post Graduate. 2. Some time the Examination Centre provide us the Writer whose writing skills are not that good. this is also not acceptable to me. If I am seating for the exam, I am not suppose to tell him the spelling of each word, or symbols and other writing manners in the exam. In this way, my entire time will waste in dictating him the spelling and all. At least the Scribe should have the genuine knowledge and idea to write an exam. Someone very rightly said that if the Centre is ready to provide us the Scribe, the Candidate should be allowed to meet his or her Scribe at least 24 ours before the exam taking place. I would say it even before 48 hours. so if the Candidate is not satisfied at the comfort level with his Scribe, he can request the Authority to change the Scribe. I know another lady who was appearing in the NET Exam. The Scribe was arranged by UGC only and again he was not found up to the mark. The Scribe had no idea about how to write that paper and his entire concentration was in talking about Scribe Fee to be given by UGC. he again and again used to complain about the lesser amount to be given from the Centre. The Examinee tried to make her Scribe understand to just to focus on writing the Exam but the Scribe was constantly trying to show his strain and tiredness saying that the Money is given to me is not sufficient. at the end of the Exam, when the Candidate asked the Scribe whether any Question is left, he said: No madam, nothing is left. You do not be worried. But after the Exam, the Candidate was shocked to know that her Scribe has left a Question of 40 Marks on Sociology! What I mean to say that we are talking about the qualification of Scribe, I am unhappy to observe this pathetic condition of Scribes writing the exams for the VI people. I am sorry to say but a Visually Impaired Candidate cannot afford to lose anything just because of silliness of his Scribe. if this is the case, you never know if I am telling my Writer to Write Delhi, and he writes Mumbai instead. so, above example also compel us to have doubts on the loyalty and honesty of the Scribe. I therefore, request you all to think about all these aspects while drafting the norms. regards, Amit Bhatt - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations Dear Amit Nobody, to my knowledge, has tried to include age limit or so for scribes in suggestions given here. I am afraid if my statement about scribe eligibility cannot be properly interpreted, I would shut up and let others draft guidelines wisely, hoping to benefit from them. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Amit Bhatt Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 12:03 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations In my opinion, when the necessary credentials and Certificates of Scribe are shown to the examination authority, there is no point of even thinking of age limit unnecessary. We all know age is now no more barrier in our education. finding a writer is always not that easy and, we are trying to make this task more tough by framing out the norm like age limit and so on. Suppose I am a scribe, my age is 35 but I am currently
Re: [AI] Examinations
Best way is to vehemently resist imposition of scribes and find and take one's own scribes. NGOs may pitch in if aspirants are not able to find on their own But, authorities imposing scribes in the name of helping the blind is not acceptable to me. Love marriage is always better than arranged, even if it fails, merely because choice was my own, and spouse was not thrust upon by somebody -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Amit Bhatt Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:35 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations Dear Rajesh bhai, Kanchan and others, I haven't tried to put my point across on Age limitation of Scribe against any suggestion or thought but I wanted to raise my own suggestion pertaining to eligibility criteria of Scribe. Following are some more points to be suggested from my end. 1. If the Visually Impaired candidate appearing in the exam like Music, the Writer should be from same stream. In Jan 2010, one of my friends in Delhi appeared in the exam conducted by Kendriya Vidyalay Sangathan for the post of Music teacher for Primary level. he was provided with the Writer who was studding in 9th standard and having no knowledge of Music. As a result, the child was not able to understand what the candidate is dictating him. It has happened since writing of Music has some special symbols, notations and so on. Secondly, the Candidate had to taken two exam in the same day and the Scribe was much tired seating and writing two exams one by another. By sharing this incidence, I just want to convey that such problems will always arrive if a Child of 9th Class writes an exam of higher level for the longer hours. The exam was indeed for the primary level teacher but we all know that the syllabus of such kind of examinations will not be as simple or easy as class 5th examination. hence, the Scribe should be only one standard junior to the standard of the Examinee. No matters whether Exam is being conducted for the primary, TGT, PGT or UGC level. According to me, my friend would have got the Scribe of Graduation level since he was already Post Graduate. 2. Some time the Examination Centre provide us the Writer whose writing skills are not that good. this is also not acceptable to me. If I am seating for the exam, I am not suppose to tell him the spelling of each word, or symbols and other writing manners in the exam. In this way, my entire time will waste in dictating him the spelling and all. At least the Scribe should have the genuine knowledge and idea to write an exam. Someone very rightly said that if the Centre is ready to provide us the Scribe, the Candidate should be allowed to meet his or her Scribe at least 24 ours before the exam taking place. I would say it even before 48 hours. so if the Candidate is not satisfied at the comfort level with his Scribe, he can request the Authority to change the Scribe. I know another lady who was appearing in the NET Exam. The Scribe was arranged by UGC only and again he was not found up to the mark. The Scribe had no idea about how to write that paper and his entire concentration was in talking about Scribe Fee to be given by UGC. he again and again used to complain about the lesser amount to be given from the Centre. The Examinee tried to make her Scribe understand to just to focus on writing the Exam but the Scribe was constantly trying to show his strain and tiredness saying that the Money is given to me is not sufficient. at the end of the Exam, when the Candidate asked the Scribe whether any Question is left, he said: No madam, nothing is left. You do not be worried. But after the Exam, the Candidate was shocked to know that her Scribe has left a Question of 40 Marks on Sociology! What I mean to say that we are talking about the qualification of Scribe, I am unhappy to observe this pathetic condition of Scribes writing the exams for the VI people. I am sorry to say but a Visually Impaired Candidate cannot afford to lose anything just because of silliness of his Scribe. if this is the case, you never know if I am telling my Writer to Write Delhi, and he writes Mumbai instead. so, above example also compel us to have doubts on the loyalty and honesty of the Scribe. I therefore, request you all to think about all these aspects while drafting the norms. regards, Amit Bhatt - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations Dear Amit Nobody, to my knowledge, has tried to include age limit or so for scribes in suggestions given here. I am afraid if my statement about scribe eligibility cannot be properly interpreted, I would shut up and let others draft guidelines wisely, hoping to benefit from them. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
Dear all, the problem of a scribe is common to all VI people who are student or appearing for one or other exam (either for job etc.) I know one person, who is a graduate from very reputed college in Delhi and speaks very fluent, impressive, correct and intelligent English. but, when he is told to type a paper, he even don't know the spelling of that and other so simple words. . this was because he studied from audio material and with the help of readers and got high colours with the help of a intelligent scribe. This draws very bad image for VI person as it shows VI persons got pass in high colours due to the efficiency of good scribe ( although opposite cases are also there). I say, why we depend on good or bad writer? why we depend on his/her (writer) understanding or knowledge of spellings? When we use JAWS or Talks to access machines or informations by our own without any scribe, then, why we need a scribe to evaluate our capability and academic knowledge? We should have a simple and single law to use a computer (desktop/laptop) to appear any exam and, diagram and figure questions should be replaced with equally weighted theory questions. one practical difficulty appears in my mind that how examiner will respond to the computer typed answer sheets because it is clear from the answer sheet that this is of a VI candidate ( he could be too liberal or too rigid). bye Sandeep G Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
hello madam, my views are as follows: first of all to reduce dependability of vi candidates on scribes for appearing in exams, where ever possible use of assistive technology must be laid amphysis. for eg., few management exams are now conducted on line. as these are computer based exams, it is very practical to make use of jaws or other screen readers. such exams also overcome the hinderence of bias by examiner towards Vi candidates either too libral or too harsh as pointed by one of our friend. these technological advancements must be accomodated. secondly, There should not be any stringint rules to be complied with while arranging for a writer. in place of it, invigilator in charge should be very dedicated towards his/her duty because many times i came across people who take a very good writer and they themselves dont do anything other than sitting and in place the entire paper is solved by the scribe. such practises are dubious raising serious questions on the capability of entire vi community. people tends to develop a mallaicious tendency towards us. most of the time invigilators are not found on the duty or sitting there and engaging themselves in some other chores. they should be very alert and see that upto what extent scribe is assisting the candidate. is candidate herself is answering questions or they are ansered by writer? this practice also act as a partiality against other vi candidates. writer should be always from the same field or must be assosiated with the subject concerning the examination for which a vi candidate is appearing. writer must be in no case be arranged by the body conducting exams. this must entirely lie in the domain of vi candidate appearing for exam. questions of pictorial presentations must in every case be replaced by theoritical questions. in many examinations there is no such provision like in management exams. these exams have complex data to be interpreted. as i am aiming at CAT, FMS, XAT, SNAP etc. inclusion of screen readers will be a very cozy step in this direction. hope my opinions will add to this bettle against present dogmas. regards swasti Mathur Sandeep Gautam wrote: Dear all, the problem of a scribe is common to all VI people who are student or appearing for one or other exam (either for job etc.) I know one person, who is a graduate from very reputed college in Delhi and speaks very fluent, impressive, correct and intelligent English. but, when he is told to type a paper, he even don't know the spelling of that and other so simple words. . this was because he studied from audio material and with the help of readers and got high colours with the help of a intelligent scribe. This draws very bad image for VI person as it shows VI persons got pass in high colours due to the efficiency of good scribe ( although opposite cases are also there). I say, why we depend on good or bad writer? why we depend on his/her (writer) understanding or knowledge of spellings? When we use JAWS or Talks to access machines or informations by our own without any scribe, then, why we need a scribe to evaluate our capability and academic knowledge? We should have a simple and single law to use a computer (desktop/laptop) to appear any exam and, diagram and figure questions should be replaced with equally weighted theory questions. one practical difficulty appears in my mind that how examiner will respond to the computer typed answer sheets because it is clear from the answer sheet that this is of a VI candidate ( he could be too liberal or too rigid). bye Sandeep G Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
In Kerala the candidates can write their exams in braille for the SSLC examination and the pictorial based questions are exumpted. For other exams there is no such rule though. E RENUKA, SECTION OFFICER, ICT CENTRE FOR VISUALLY CHALLENGED, CHMK LIBRARY, UNIVERSITY OF CALICUT CALICUT, UNIVERSITY P O, MALAPPURAM DISTRICT, KERALA. - Original Message - From: Swasti Mathur swastimat...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations hello madam, my views are as follows: first of all to reduce dependability of vi candidates on scribes for appearing in exams, where ever possible use of assistive technology must be laid amphysis. for eg., few management exams are now conducted on line. as these are computer based exams, it is very practical to make use of jaws or other screen readers. such exams also overcome the hinderence of bias by examiner towards Vi candidates either too libral or too harsh as pointed by one of our friend. these technological advancements must be accomodated. secondly, There should not be any stringint rules to be complied with while arranging for a writer. in place of it, invigilator in charge should be very dedicated towards his/her duty because many times i came across people who take a very good writer and they themselves dont do anything other than sitting and in place the entire paper is solved by the scribe. such practises are dubious raising serious questions on the capability of entire vi community. people tends to develop a mallaicious tendency towards us. most of the time invigilators are not found on the duty or sitting there and engaging themselves in some other chores. they should be very alert and see that upto what extent scribe is assisting the candidate. is candidate herself is answering questions or they are ansered by writer? this practice also act as a partiality against other vi candidates. writer should be always from the same field or must be assosiated with the subject concerning the examination for which a vi candidate is appearing. writer must be in no case be arranged by the body conducting exams. this must entirely lie in the domain of vi candidate appearing for exam. questions of pictorial presentations must in every case be replaced by theoritical questions. in many examinations there is no such provision like in management exams. these exams have complex data to be interpreted. as i am aiming at CAT, FMS, XAT, SNAP etc. inclusion of screen readers will be a very cozy step in this direction. hope my opinions will add to this bettle against present dogmas. regards swasti Mathur Sandeep Gautam wrote: Dear all, the problem of a scribe is common to all VI people who are student or appearing for one or other exam (either for job etc.) I know one person, who is a graduate from very reputed college in Delhi and speaks very fluent, impressive, correct and intelligent English. but, when he is told to type a paper, he even don't know the spelling of that and other so simple words. . this was because he studied from audio material and with the help of readers and got high colours with the help of a intelligent scribe. This draws very bad image for VI person as it shows VI persons got pass in high colours due to the efficiency of good scribe ( although opposite cases are also there). I say, why we depend on good or bad writer? why we depend on his/her (writer) understanding or knowledge of spellings? When we use JAWS or Talks to access machines or informations by our own without any scribe, then, why we need a scribe to evaluate our capability and academic knowledge? We should have a simple and single law to use a computer (desktop/laptop) to appear any exam and, diagram and figure questions should be replaced with equally weighted theory questions. one practical difficulty appears in my mind that how examiner will respond to the computer typed answer sheets because it is clear from the answer sheet that this is of a VI candidate ( he could be too liberal or too rigid). bye Sandeep G Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your
Re: [AI] Examinations
hello! my observations here: 1. if writer must belong to the same field, i am a bank employee, on my promotion exams, should i possess my colleague to write my papers? 2. what about those blind candidates, who don't know computers. we always discuss about highprofile exams like cat or other. what about that blind person, who passed only 12th standard and appearing on the exams like shiksha karmee or shiksha mitra. where he is trying to get a fixed salary job of rs.7500/-. in such exams, some centres are given far of places from the urban areas. where, there is no electricity. 3. some of sighted people also take notes and copy their answers in exams. like swasti observed about writers regarding blind candidates. 4. who will negotiate the matter with the authority? the NGOs and organisations for the blind have no consensus at all. some of them support special schools, but, some of them are forcing government to send the blind students to the so called integrated education system. the difference is same regarding Braille teaching and writers. you can read the entire matter reported on jigyasa published by AICB in July-august 2010 addition. 5. what is the business of NIVH? even they can not print and deliver their own publication regularly. the employees and authorities of NIVH are enjoying the money of government. to sum up, i would like to say that it should make employed mandatory that a blind person, will possess scribe to appear examinations, whether it is offline, online or written on hardcopy. if blind person is a student, then a writer should be one standard lower then the blind student, but, he or she does not belong to the same faculty. if a blind person appearing on competitive exams, then writer's qualification should be minimum 12th standard. but, there should be no criteria of percentage. - Original Message - From: Swasti Mathur swastimat...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations hello madam, my views are as follows: first of all to reduce dependability of vi candidates on scribes for appearing in exams, where ever possible use of assistive technology must be laid amphysis. for eg., few management exams are now conducted on line. as these are computer based exams, it is very practical to make use of jaws or other screen readers. such exams also overcome the hinderence of bias by examiner towards Vi candidates either too libral or too harsh as pointed by one of our friend. these technological advancements must be accomodated. secondly, There should not be any stringint rules to be complied with while arranging for a writer. in place of it, invigilator in charge should be very dedicated towards his/her duty because many times i came across people who take a very good writer and they themselves dont do anything other than sitting and in place the entire paper is solved by the scribe. such practises are dubious raising serious questions on the capability of entire vi community. people tends to develop a mallaicious tendency towards us. most of the time invigilators are not found on the duty or sitting there and engaging themselves in some other chores. they should be very alert and see that upto what extent scribe is assisting the candidate. is candidate herself is answering questions or they are ansered by writer? this practice also act as a partiality against other vi candidates. writer should be always from the same field or must be assosiated with the subject concerning the examination for which a vi candidate is appearing. writer must be in no case be arranged by the body conducting exams. this must entirely lie in the domain of vi candidate appearing for exam. questions of pictorial presentations must in every case be replaced by theoritical questions. in many examinations there is no such provision like in management exams. these exams have complex data to be interpreted. as i am aiming at CAT, FMS, XAT, SNAP etc. inclusion of screen readers will be a very cozy step in this direction. hope my opinions will add to this bettle against present dogmas. regards swasti Mathur Sandeep Gautam wrote: Dear all, the problem of a scribe is common to all VI people who are student or appearing for one or other exam (either for job etc.) I know one person, who is a graduate from very reputed college in Delhi and speaks very fluent, impressive, correct and intelligent English. but, when he is told to type a paper, he even don't know the spelling of that and other so simple words. . this was because he studied from audio material and with the help of readers and got high colours with the help of a intelligent scribe. This draws very bad image for VI person as it shows VI persons got pass in high colours due to the efficiency of good scribe ( although opposite cases are also there). I say, why we depend on good or bad writer? why we depend on his/her
Re: [AI] Examinations
braile is a good option, but, various NGOs for the blind are opposing the context. - Original Message - From: RENUKA WARRIER eren...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 6:22 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations In Kerala the candidates can write their exams in braille for the SSLC examination and the pictorial based questions are exumpted. For other exams there is no such rule though. E RENUKA, SECTION OFFICER, ICT CENTRE FOR VISUALLY CHALLENGED, CHMK LIBRARY, UNIVERSITY OF CALICUT CALICUT, UNIVERSITY P O, MALAPPURAM DISTRICT, KERALA. - Original Message - From: Swasti Mathur swastimat...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations hello madam, my views are as follows: first of all to reduce dependability of vi candidates on scribes for appearing in exams, where ever possible use of assistive technology must be laid amphysis. for eg., few management exams are now conducted on line. as these are computer based exams, it is very practical to make use of jaws or other screen readers. such exams also overcome the hinderence of bias by examiner towards Vi candidates either too libral or too harsh as pointed by one of our friend. these technological advancements must be accomodated. secondly, There should not be any stringint rules to be complied with while arranging for a writer. in place of it, invigilator in charge should be very dedicated towards his/her duty because many times i came across people who take a very good writer and they themselves dont do anything other than sitting and in place the entire paper is solved by the scribe. such practises are dubious raising serious questions on the capability of entire vi community. people tends to develop a mallaicious tendency towards us. most of the time invigilators are not found on the duty or sitting there and engaging themselves in some other chores. they should be very alert and see that upto what extent scribe is assisting the candidate. is candidate herself is answering questions or they are ansered by writer? this practice also act as a partiality against other vi candidates. writer should be always from the same field or must be assosiated with the subject concerning the examination for which a vi candidate is appearing. writer must be in no case be arranged by the body conducting exams. this must entirely lie in the domain of vi candidate appearing for exam. questions of pictorial presentations must in every case be replaced by theoritical questions. in many examinations there is no such provision like in management exams. these exams have complex data to be interpreted. as i am aiming at CAT, FMS, XAT, SNAP etc. inclusion of screen readers will be a very cozy step in this direction. hope my opinions will add to this bettle against present dogmas. regards swasti Mathur Sandeep Gautam wrote: Dear all, the problem of a scribe is common to all VI people who are student or appearing for one or other exam (either for job etc.) I know one person, who is a graduate from very reputed college in Delhi and speaks very fluent, impressive, correct and intelligent English. but, when he is told to type a paper, he even don't know the spelling of that and other so simple words. . this was because he studied from audio material and with the help of readers and got high colours with the help of a intelligent scribe. This draws very bad image for VI person as it shows VI persons got pass in high colours due to the efficiency of good scribe ( although opposite cases are also there). I say, why we depend on good or bad writer? why we depend on his/her (writer) understanding or knowledge of spellings? When we use JAWS or Talks to access machines or informations by our own without any scribe, then, why we need a scribe to evaluate our capability and academic knowledge? We should have a simple and single law to use a computer (desktop/laptop) to appear any exam and, diagram and figure questions should be replaced with equally weighted theory questions. one practical difficulty appears in my mind that how examiner will respond to the computer typed answer sheets because it is clear from the answer sheet that this is of a VI candidate ( he could be too liberal or too rigid). bye Sandeep G Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message
Re: [AI] Examinations
Well, now computers should be taught right from the school. When there's something is available, our students must learn and adopt. Even for sighted childre, computers are taught right from 1st std. Why not for blind students when it gives more independance? Sadly, most of the NGOs themselves do not aware about the advancement of technology. Of course a student should learn Braille to learn spellings and enjoy reading. On 9/7/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: braile is a good option, but, various NGOs for the blind are opposing the context. - Original Message - From: RENUKA WARRIER eren...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 6:22 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations In Kerala the candidates can write their exams in braille for the SSLC examination and the pictorial based questions are exumpted. For other exams there is no such rule though. E RENUKA, SECTION OFFICER, ICT CENTRE FOR VISUALLY CHALLENGED, CHMK LIBRARY, UNIVERSITY OF CALICUT CALICUT, UNIVERSITY P O, MALAPPURAM DISTRICT, KERALA. - Original Message - From: Swasti Mathur swastimat...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations hello madam, my views are as follows: first of all to reduce dependability of vi candidates on scribes for appearing in exams, where ever possible use of assistive technology must be laid amphysis. for eg., few management exams are now conducted on line. as these are computer based exams, it is very practical to make use of jaws or other screen readers. such exams also overcome the hinderence of bias by examiner towards Vi candidates either too libral or too harsh as pointed by one of our friend. these technological advancements must be accomodated. secondly, There should not be any stringint rules to be complied with while arranging for a writer. in place of it, invigilator in charge should be very dedicated towards his/her duty because many times i came across people who take a very good writer and they themselves dont do anything other than sitting and in place the entire paper is solved by the scribe. such practises are dubious raising serious questions on the capability of entire vi community. people tends to develop a mallaicious tendency towards us. most of the time invigilators are not found on the duty or sitting there and engaging themselves in some other chores. they should be very alert and see that upto what extent scribe is assisting the candidate. is candidate herself is answering questions or they are ansered by writer? this practice also act as a partiality against other vi candidates. writer should be always from the same field or must be assosiated with the subject concerning the examination for which a vi candidate is appearing. writer must be in no case be arranged by the body conducting exams. this must entirely lie in the domain of vi candidate appearing for exam. questions of pictorial presentations must in every case be replaced by theoritical questions. in many examinations there is no such provision like in management exams. these exams have complex data to be interpreted. as i am aiming at CAT, FMS, XAT, SNAP etc. inclusion of screen readers will be a very cozy step in this direction. hope my opinions will add to this bettle against present dogmas. regards swasti Mathur Sandeep Gautam wrote: Dear all, the problem of a scribe is common to all VI people who are student or appearing for one or other exam (either for job etc.) I know one person, who is a graduate from very reputed college in Delhi and speaks very fluent, impressive, correct and intelligent English. but, when he is told to type a paper, he even don't know the spelling of that and other so simple words. . this was because he studied from audio material and with the help of readers and got high colours with the help of a intelligent scribe. This draws very bad image for VI person as it shows VI persons got pass in high colours due to the efficiency of good scribe ( although opposite cases are also there). I say, why we depend on good or bad writer? why we depend on his/her (writer) understanding or knowledge of spellings? When we use JAWS or Talks to access machines or informations by our own without any scribe, then, why we need a scribe to evaluate our capability and academic knowledge? We should have a simple and single law to use a computer (desktop/laptop) to appear any exam and, diagram and figure questions should be replaced with equally weighted theory questions. one practical difficulty appears in my mind that how examiner will respond to the computer typed answer sheets because it is clear from the answer sheet that this is of a VI candidate ( he could be too liberal or too rigid). bye Sandeep G Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons
Re: [AI] Examinations
In my opinion, when the necessary credentials and Certificates of Scribe are shown to the examination authority, there is no point of even thinking of age limit unnecessary. We all know age is now no more barrier in our education. finding a writer is always not that easy and, we are trying to make this task more tough by framing out the norm like age limit and so on. Suppose I am a scribe, my age is 35 but I am currently studding in 12th standard and writing an exam for a candidate who is doing graduation, so what goes wrong here. Let us try to create the easiness and good norms for examinations. Regards, Amit Bhatt - Original Message - From: Pamnani kanchanpamn...@hotmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 4:28 PM Subject: [AI] Examinations Most of you know that I have been working on the guidelines for examinations especially the issue of scribes for some time. All of us have realised the need for standard guidelines in the country. After the maharashtra guidelines were issued many of you approached me and have been approaching me regularly for All India guidelines. Therefore it is time to act. I have based my work on the: 1. Guidelines in Maharashtra 2. Minutes of meeting held in2008 3. Judgement in Asif's case 4. University of Bombay's circular on psychology I need to know from each of you as to what you want in the new Rules. What you want to safe guard against,What you want the Examination authority to take care of and what will be the visually challenged's responsibility. Anything that I should take into account especially for any particular exam. Please ask for the moon we just might get it of course be practical. Think of all the variations and combinations and complications that someone somewhere may face. Thats why I am still on this group. I cannot take care of the idiot who denies the rules but I can ensure good rules on paper at least. So lets go for it. Please dont send me a list of what happened in the past I cant rectify it but I can see that it does not happen again. So requesting for some input. The new rules will apply to : 1. All recruiting exams 2. All college and school exams 3. All entrance exams 4. any other exam that I have forgotten Looking forward to your inputs Thanks Kanchan Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
I completely disagree to the suggestion. After all, Invigilator is Invigilator, if he comes and write our exam, the definition of Invigilator and the terms of his responsibilities will be totally changed. we do not need to be worried about the expenditure being done on Invigilator since it is the duty and responsibility of concern authority to observe the Invigilator whether he is properly involved in his job or not. This is nun of our business. I would also say if the writer is arranged by the candidate, and he or she could not appear in the Centre to write our paper for what so ever reason, the examination authority should not be blamed for it. But if the writer is arranged by the concern examination department, then it is their responsibility to depute the scribe on time in a proper manner. Regards, Amit Bhatt - Original Message - From: RENUKA WARRIER eren...@gmail.com To: m.chandrashekar chandru...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations This suggestion seems to be most suitable. Since the invigilater is suppose to spend the whole time in the room why can't they be the scribe? When I was appearing for the departmental tests, )only then I had to use the scribe, since I had vision till then.) the invigilater actually did not even come to the room. So, why wasting money on them? E RENUKA, SECTION OFFICER, ICT CENTRE FOR VISUALLY CHALLENGED, CHMK LIBRARY, UNIVERSITY OF CALICUT CALICUT, UNIVERSITY P O, MALAPPURAM DISTRICT, KERALA. - Original Message - From: m.chandrashekar chandru...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 12:27 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations very nice, thank you for preparation and suggestions. 1 more suggestion I would like to add: in case of sudden absence of scribe, because of various reasons, let the invigilator become scribe, instead of simply sitting and observing, he or she can do this job. with best regards m.chandru - Original Message - From: Prashant Verma pr_ve...@hotmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations Dear Kanchan, Here is another draft that is on the same subject for the University level exams. Exam writing policy for students with disability- 1. The term examination stands for all examinations conducted by the University, the Colleges and the Departments. It would include the final exams, the college conducted half yearly (House exams), the semester exams, the entrance tests and any other exams officially conducted by the University, the colleges or the teaching faculty. 2. The facilities specified in the Document will include the following categories of students: a. Students with visual disabilities b. Students with low vision c. Students with short term disability due to injury d. Students with orthopaedic disability e. Students with brain related ailments that demand support systems f. Students with any other type of disability accepted for this purpose by the head of the institution, (to be approved by an officer designated by the Examination Branch) 3. All students, in any of the categories mentioned above, may arrange for their own writers, scribes. In case they are unable to do so, the superintendent of the examination centre would provide a writer. The candidate must, however, request for a writer at least 24 hours prior to the commencement of the examination. A writers' bank must be created for the purpose for a ready availability of writers whenever required. The candidate must be given an opportunity to satisfy himself/ herself about the writer's ability to take dictation from the candidate. There should be, at least, a minimum comfort level between the candidate and the writer and the invigilator. 4. One hour extra time over and above the prescribed time for a paper of three hours duration and where the period is less than 3hrs., then extra time allowed will be 1 / 3rd of the total duration of examination, be given to write answer scripts, without obtaining prior approval of the University. 5. There should be no clause regarding the academic qualification of the scribe except a minimum level of education. As each candidate is required to be assigned a separate invigilator and a separate room, it is the responsibility of the invigilator to ensure a fair conduct of the examination. (UPSC guidelines may be used) (Suggestion from Vikas Gupta: students of humanities should preferably be provided with scribes of humanities background and those of science and commerce and different languages with scribes of respective backgrounds. He also feels that levels of minimum education could be different for different courses). 6. It should not be mandatory for a candidate to mention his/ her disability on the cover page of the answer script. 7. The writer must be paid
Re: [AI] Examinations
Dear Kanchan, At the outset I apologize for not reacting earlier. I have following to say: VI students should be allowed the use of assistive devices like abacus, Taylor frame etc. for arithmetic/mathematic questions as these are mere tools and not the devices that solve the sums. The invigilation should be emphasized rather than qualifications of the scribe. School children should in no circumstances be compeled to take a junior scribe, it is extremely harmful to them if they are to search for a scribe till the last moment and not get a scribe. We have to remember that blindness is in no circumstances a punishment. No bar of percentage etc. be laid down on the scribe. The problems of science and mathematics being technical subjects also applies to music as Mukta's experience shows me that musical exams can only be written by those who are familiar with musical notation. Our guidelines should also be expressly applicable to universities/examination bodies conducting musical exams. In fact, Kanchan, while laying down the applicability criterion, we must give a list that is inclusive and has an option of adding more and more examinations/bodies conducting these examinations. Shall revert if something more comes to mind. - Original Message - From: Pamnani kanchanpamn...@hotmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 4:28 PM Subject: [AI] Examinations Most of you know that I have been working on the guidelines for examinations especially the issue of scribes for some time. All of us have realised the need for standard guidelines in the country. After the maharashtra guidelines were issued many of you approached me and have been approaching me regularly for All India guidelines. Therefore it is time to act. I have based my work on the: 1. Guidelines in Maharashtra 2. Minutes of meeting held in2008 3. Judgement in Asif's case 4. University of Bombay's circular on psychology I need to know from each of you as to what you want in the new Rules. What you want to safe guard against,What you want the Examination authority to take care of and what will be the visually challenged's responsibility. Anything that I should take into account especially for any particular exam. Please ask for the moon we just might get it of course be practical. Think of all the variations and combinations and complications that someone somewhere may face. Thats why I am still on this group. I cannot take care of the idiot who denies the rules but I can ensure good rules on paper at least. So lets go for it. Please dont send me a list of what happened in the past I cant rectify it but I can see that it does not happen again. So requesting for some input. The new rules will apply to : 1. All recruiting exams 2. All college and school exams 3. All entrance exams 4. any other exam that I have forgotten Looking forward to your inputs Thanks Kanchan Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
Dear Amit Nobody, to my knowledge, has tried to include age limit or so for scribes in suggestions given here. I am afraid if my statement about scribe eligibility cannot be properly interpreted, I would shut up and let others draft guidelines wisely, hoping to benefit from them. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Amit Bhatt Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 12:03 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations In my opinion, when the necessary credentials and Certificates of Scribe are shown to the examination authority, there is no point of even thinking of age limit unnecessary. We all know age is now no more barrier in our education. finding a writer is always not that easy and, we are trying to make this task more tough by framing out the norm like age limit and so on. Suppose I am a scribe, my age is 35 but I am currently studding in 12th standard and writing an exam for a candidate who is doing graduation, so what goes wrong here. Let us try to create the easiness and good norms for examinations. Regards, Amit Bhatt - Original Message - From: Pamnani kanchanpamn...@hotmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 4:28 PM Subject: [AI] Examinations Most of you know that I have been working on the guidelines for examinations especially the issue of scribes for some time. All of us have realised the need for standard guidelines in the country. After the maharashtra guidelines were issued many of you approached me and have been approaching me regularly for All India guidelines. Therefore it is time to act. I have based my work on the: 1. Guidelines in Maharashtra 2. Minutes of meeting held in2008 3. Judgement in Asif's case 4. University of Bombay's circular on psychology I need to know from each of you as to what you want in the new Rules. What you want to safe guard against,What you want the Examination authority to take care of and what will be the visually challenged's responsibility. Anything that I should take into account especially for any particular exam. Please ask for the moon we just might get it of course be practical. Think of all the variations and combinations and complications that someone somewhere may face. Thats why I am still on this group. I cannot take care of the idiot who denies the rules but I can ensure good rules on paper at least. So lets go for it. Please dont send me a list of what happened in the past I cant rectify it but I can see that it does not happen again. So requesting for some input. The new rules will apply to : 1. All recruiting exams 2. All college and school exams 3. All entrance exams 4. any other exam that I have forgotten Looking forward to your inputs Thanks Kanchan Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
very nice, thank you for preparation and suggestions. 1 more suggestion I would like to add: in case of sudden absence of scribe, because of various reasons, let the invigilator become scribe, instead of simply sitting and observing, he or she can do this job. with best regards m.chandru - Original Message - From: Prashant Verma pr_ve...@hotmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations Dear Kanchan, Here is another draft that is on the same subject for the University level exams. Exam writing policy for students with disability- 1. The term examination stands for all examinations conducted by the University, the Colleges and the Departments. It would include the final exams, the college conducted half yearly (House exams), the semester exams, the entrance tests and any other exams officially conducted by the University, the colleges or the teaching faculty. 2. The facilities specified in the Document will include the following categories of students: a. Students with visual disabilities b. Students with low vision c. Students with short term disability due to injury d. Students with orthopaedic disability e. Students with brain related ailments that demand support systems f. Students with any other type of disability accepted for this purpose by the head of the institution, (to be approved by an officer designated by the Examination Branch) 3. All students, in any of the categories mentioned above, may arrange for their own writers, scribes. In case they are unable to do so, the superintendent of the examination centre would provide a writer. The candidate must, however, request for a writer at least 24 hours prior to the commencement of the examination. A writers' bank must be created for the purpose for a ready availability of writers whenever required. The candidate must be given an opportunity to satisfy himself/ herself about the writer's ability to take dictation from the candidate. There should be, at least, a minimum comfort level between the candidate and the writer and the invigilator. 4. One hour extra time over and above the prescribed time for a paper of three hours duration and where the period is less than 3hrs., then extra time allowed will be 1 / 3rd of the total duration of examination, be given to write answer scripts, without obtaining prior approval of the University. 5. There should be no clause regarding the academic qualification of the scribe except a minimum level of education. As each candidate is required to be assigned a separate invigilator and a separate room, it is the responsibility of the invigilator to ensure a fair conduct of the examination. (UPSC guidelines may be used) (Suggestion from Vikas Gupta: students of humanities should preferably be provided with scribes of humanities background and those of science and commerce and different languages with scribes of respective backgrounds. He also feels that levels of minimum education could be different for different courses). 6. It should not be mandatory for a candidate to mention his/ her disability on the cover page of the answer script. 7. The writer must be paid at the end of each examination by the superintendent of the concerned Centre whether the writer has been arranged by the candidate or by the superintendent. Each Centre must receive the required remuneration in advance from the University. 8. The remuneration to be paid to the writers must be enhanced from Rs. 100/- to Rs. 300/- in accordance with revisions in the entire examination system. 9. An extremely cumbersome requirement of a certificate from the University Health Centre, in the case of persons with short term disability, should be replaced with a simplified and convenient approach. A certificate from an MBBS doctor and endorsed by the Head of the Institution should be acceptable for a candidate to seek a writer for writing an exam. 10. In case of a candidate, whose disability may not be a hindrance in his/ her ability to write the exam himself/ herself, but could cause a significant slow down in writing speed, the provision of extra time should be allowed even if the service of a writer is not required. (Vikas feels that a separate room should also be provided) 11. If the candidates so desire, they must be allowed to write their exam through computers with the help of relevant and friendly software chosen by them. Such students may write their exam at the college, if the college is equipped with the software or at a centre approved by the Examination Branch. 12. There should be clearly stated directions for invigilators who would supervise over the candidates. The directives should be sent to the superintendents with other printed instructions in advance. 13. Institutions used as centers for the entrance test/ exams etc. should be the campus centers or the CIE run schools
Re: [AI] Examinations
This suggestion seems to be most suitable. Since the invigilater is suppose to spend the whole time in the room why can't they be the scribe? When I was appearing for the departmental tests, )only then I had to use the scribe, since I had vision till then.) the invigilater actually did not even come to the room. So, why wasting money on them? E RENUKA, SECTION OFFICER, ICT CENTRE FOR VISUALLY CHALLENGED, CHMK LIBRARY, UNIVERSITY OF CALICUT CALICUT, UNIVERSITY P O, MALAPPURAM DISTRICT, KERALA. - Original Message - From: m.chandrashekar chandru...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 12:27 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations very nice, thank you for preparation and suggestions. 1 more suggestion I would like to add: in case of sudden absence of scribe, because of various reasons, let the invigilator become scribe, instead of simply sitting and observing, he or she can do this job. with best regards m.chandru - Original Message - From: Prashant Verma pr_ve...@hotmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations Dear Kanchan, Here is another draft that is on the same subject for the University level exams. Exam writing policy for students with disability- 1. The term examination stands for all examinations conducted by the University, the Colleges and the Departments. It would include the final exams, the college conducted half yearly (House exams), the semester exams, the entrance tests and any other exams officially conducted by the University, the colleges or the teaching faculty. 2. The facilities specified in the Document will include the following categories of students: a. Students with visual disabilities b. Students with low vision c. Students with short term disability due to injury d. Students with orthopaedic disability e. Students with brain related ailments that demand support systems f. Students with any other type of disability accepted for this purpose by the head of the institution, (to be approved by an officer designated by the Examination Branch) 3. All students, in any of the categories mentioned above, may arrange for their own writers, scribes. In case they are unable to do so, the superintendent of the examination centre would provide a writer. The candidate must, however, request for a writer at least 24 hours prior to the commencement of the examination. A writers' bank must be created for the purpose for a ready availability of writers whenever required. The candidate must be given an opportunity to satisfy himself/ herself about the writer's ability to take dictation from the candidate. There should be, at least, a minimum comfort level between the candidate and the writer and the invigilator. 4. One hour extra time over and above the prescribed time for a paper of three hours duration and where the period is less than 3hrs., then extra time allowed will be 1 / 3rd of the total duration of examination, be given to write answer scripts, without obtaining prior approval of the University. 5. There should be no clause regarding the academic qualification of the scribe except a minimum level of education. As each candidate is required to be assigned a separate invigilator and a separate room, it is the responsibility of the invigilator to ensure a fair conduct of the examination. (UPSC guidelines may be used) (Suggestion from Vikas Gupta: students of humanities should preferably be provided with scribes of humanities background and those of science and commerce and different languages with scribes of respective backgrounds. He also feels that levels of minimum education could be different for different courses). 6. It should not be mandatory for a candidate to mention his/ her disability on the cover page of the answer script. 7. The writer must be paid at the end of each examination by the superintendent of the concerned Centre whether the writer has been arranged by the candidate or by the superintendent. Each Centre must receive the required remuneration in advance from the University. 8. The remuneration to be paid to the writers must be enhanced from Rs. 100/- to Rs. 300/- in accordance with revisions in the entire examination system. 9. An extremely cumbersome requirement of a certificate from the University Health Centre, in the case of persons with short term disability, should be replaced with a simplified and convenient approach. A certificate from an MBBS doctor and endorsed by the Head of the Institution should be acceptable for a candidate to seek a writer for writing an exam. 10. In case of a candidate, whose disability may not be a hindrance in his/ her ability to write the exam himself/ herself, but could cause a significant slow down in writing speed, the provision of extra time should be allowed even if the service of a writer is not required. (Vikas
Re: [AI] Examinations
We are discussing about tactile formats. But, my question is: there are certain figures involving very complecated stuff. And, one shouldn't forget 3D diagrams. How can we attempt such questions or represent them using tactile diagrams? I'll share my experiences in the NTSE here. In the theory test, there were questions on non-verbal reasoning as in count the No. of squares, complete the pattern, folded paper and what not. Even if we understand the picture, it will be difficult for a person who's never seen anything to visualise and comprehend the figure properly. Writer's assistance will still be required. Eventually, this is not the true ability and intellect of the candidate which is being tested. The concept of tactile diagrams work well only where the figures are easy to interpret. But, one cannot be sure of the complexity in figures. So, according to me, the best bet will be alternate theoretical questions, testing the same concept in a different way. -Kartik On 9/3/10, Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Rajesh, very complicated and too much emphasis on the candidate being able to prove and too many variables. anyway lets look at it in more details. The more complicated we make it the tougher it will be to live with later. Getting it passed is not the problem. Need to be practical. Kanchan - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations 1. I said should not have appeared in the past, primarily to satisfy paranoids. However, it is better dropped. Or at least, a reasonable time limit, say past three years, may be prescribed. However, it also will lay the onus of proving the non-appearance on the candidate or scribe which is difficult. 2. Upper age limit I mentioned to mean that scribe should not be ineligible merely due to upper age limit for taking the exam. So, this condition does not apply to exams where there is no age limit. Hence, anybody, say who cannot appear for M.A. part 2 in English, because she does not have M.A. part 1 pass certificate in English, will be able to be a scribe. So will be anybody who has done PG in say, physics, or PH.D. in anything but English, for that matter. Upper age limit will come into play when, say, I take a scribe for SBI exam where upper age limit is 28 years, and minimum qualification for applying is graduation. So, a person who is 35, but who is a graduate cannot be a scribe, for she could herself have taken the exam, but for her being overage. Here, anybody who does not have a graduation degree will be a scribe I know this condition will deviate a little from strictly having one year junior scribe, but I propose it to be a short eligibility criteria for all exams. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:13 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations 1. How is it possible to prove that someone did not give the exam in the past? If the writer is younger than the candidate it may be possible but if my mom wrote an exam eg. a exam for recruiting to SBI for you then how will you prove that she didnt sit for the same exam 30 years ago? 2 . Also there are many exams like M. A. which does not have an upper age limit for the candidate so any person who is about 22 years or more even 100 will be eligible to give the exam. Can such a person be a writer? I dont know lets analyse these situations more in depth. I had started drafting but I put it aside because I knew there were many complications. I have read Apoorva, Kartik,Rakesh and Vasu's views. Waiting for others. This affects each of us and at various times in our lives. I also understand that there is a feeling that there should be tactile questions and that all visual questions should have alternatives. This is a great leap forward. However the young visually challenged have to be taught this from school. Are our organisations either special schools or supplementary facilities ready for this? I can tell you that one of the turning points in the latest physiotherapy case was when I handed over tactile diagrams of the foot to the judges. how many organisations have these machines, how many will do it on time, how many readily teach their kids to read and understand these?Sorry for going off on a tangent. Lets get back to the real issue of the examinations. Kanchan - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations May I add a proviso to the eligibility condition mentioned in my earlier mail to the effect that the scribe should not have appeared in the same exam at any
Re: [AI] Examinations
I had proposed it as one quick eligibility condition for all exams. Surprisingly enough, if it appears complicated and plagued with so many variables. I cannot help it. Perhaps, it is my fault that I am impractical and incomprehensible to most. I only mean to say: Scribe should not be eligible to take the same exam at the time she is acting as scribe, such ineligibility not caused by her being overage for the exam. Now, if it is complicated, and various conditions being imposed now, are simple enough, and something can be thought of to prevent undue harassment of blind folk without sacrificing competence of the scribes and palatable to paranoids, I have nothing to say. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 10:24 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations Rajesh, very complicated and too much emphasis on the candidate being able to prove and too many variables. anyway lets look at it in more details. The more complicated we make it the tougher it will be to live with later. Getting it passed is not the problem. Need to be practical. Kanchan - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations 1. I said should not have appeared in the past, primarily to satisfy paranoids. However, it is better dropped. Or at least, a reasonable time limit, say past three years, may be prescribed. However, it also will lay the onus of proving the non-appearance on the candidate or scribe which is difficult. 2. Upper age limit I mentioned to mean that scribe should not be ineligible merely due to upper age limit for taking the exam. So, this condition does not apply to exams where there is no age limit. Hence, anybody, say who cannot appear for M.A. part 2 in English, because she does not have M.A. part 1 pass certificate in English, will be able to be a scribe. So will be anybody who has done PG in say, physics, or PH.D. in anything but English, for that matter. Upper age limit will come into play when, say, I take a scribe for SBI exam where upper age limit is 28 years, and minimum qualification for applying is graduation. So, a person who is 35, but who is a graduate cannot be a scribe, for she could herself have taken the exam, but for her being overage. Here, anybody who does not have a graduation degree will be a scribe I know this condition will deviate a little from strictly having one year junior scribe, but I propose it to be a short eligibility criteria for all exams. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:13 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations 1. How is it possible to prove that someone did not give the exam in the past? If the writer is younger than the candidate it may be possible but if my mom wrote an exam eg. a exam for recruiting to SBI for you then how will you prove that she didnt sit for the same exam 30 years ago? 2 . Also there are many exams like M. A. which does not have an upper age limit for the candidate so any person who is about 22 years or more even 100 will be eligible to give the exam. Can such a person be a writer? I dont know lets analyse these situations more in depth. I had started drafting but I put it aside because I knew there were many complications. I have read Apoorva, Kartik,Rakesh and Vasu's views. Waiting for others. This affects each of us and at various times in our lives. I also understand that there is a feeling that there should be tactile questions and that all visual questions should have alternatives. This is a great leap forward. However the young visually challenged have to be taught this from school. Are our organisations either special schools or supplementary facilities ready for this? I can tell you that one of the turning points in the latest physiotherapy case was when I handed over tactile diagrams of the foot to the judges. how many organisations have these machines, how many will do it on time, how many readily teach their kids to read and understand these?Sorry for going off on a tangent. Lets get back to the real issue of the examinations. Kanchan - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations May I add a proviso to the eligibility condition mentioned in my earlier mail to the effect that the scribe should not have appeared in the same exam at any past time, or could have appeared but for upper age limit. Simplified, the eligibility condition
Re: [AI] Examinations
Dear Mam, UGC net paper has also be included in the list, and it needs the special and seprat attention. more I'll write later. On 9/2/10, Kartik Sawhney sawhney.kar...@gmail.com wrote: We are discussing about tactile formats. But, my question is: there are certain figures involving very complecated stuff. And, one shouldn't forget 3D diagrams. How can we attempt such questions or represent them using tactile diagrams? I'll share my experiences in the NTSE here. In the theory test, there were questions on non-verbal reasoning as in count the No. of squares, complete the pattern, folded paper and what not. Even if we understand the picture, it will be difficult for a person who's never seen anything to visualise and comprehend the figure properly. Writer's assistance will still be required. Eventually, this is not the true ability and intellect of the candidate which is being tested. The concept of tactile diagrams work well only where the figures are easy to interpret. But, one cannot be sure of the complexity in figures. So, according to me, the best bet will be alternate theoretical questions, testing the same concept in a different way. -Kartik On 9/3/10, Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Rajesh, very complicated and too much emphasis on the candidate being able to prove and too many variables. anyway lets look at it in more details. The more complicated we make it the tougher it will be to live with later. Getting it passed is not the problem. Need to be practical. Kanchan - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations 1. I said should not have appeared in the past, primarily to satisfy paranoids. However, it is better dropped. Or at least, a reasonable time limit, say past three years, may be prescribed. However, it also will lay the onus of proving the non-appearance on the candidate or scribe which is difficult. 2. Upper age limit I mentioned to mean that scribe should not be ineligible merely due to upper age limit for taking the exam. So, this condition does not apply to exams where there is no age limit. Hence, anybody, say who cannot appear for M.A. part 2 in English, because she does not have M.A. part 1 pass certificate in English, will be able to be a scribe. So will be anybody who has done PG in say, physics, or PH.D. in anything but English, for that matter. Upper age limit will come into play when, say, I take a scribe for SBI exam where upper age limit is 28 years, and minimum qualification for applying is graduation. So, a person who is 35, but who is a graduate cannot be a scribe, for she could herself have taken the exam, but for her being overage. Here, anybody who does not have a graduation degree will be a scribe I know this condition will deviate a little from strictly having one year junior scribe, but I propose it to be a short eligibility criteria for all exams. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:13 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations 1. How is it possible to prove that someone did not give the exam in the past? If the writer is younger than the candidate it may be possible but if my mom wrote an exam eg. a exam for recruiting to SBI for you then how will you prove that she didnt sit for the same exam 30 years ago? 2 . Also there are many exams like M. A. which does not have an upper age limit for the candidate so any person who is about 22 years or more even 100 will be eligible to give the exam. Can such a person be a writer? I dont know lets analyse these situations more in depth. I had started drafting but I put it aside because I knew there were many complications. I have read Apoorva, Kartik,Rakesh and Vasu's views. Waiting for others. This affects each of us and at various times in our lives. I also understand that there is a feeling that there should be tactile questions and that all visual questions should have alternatives. This is a great leap forward. However the young visually challenged have to be taught this from school. Are our organisations either special schools or supplementary facilities ready for this? I can tell you that one of the turning points in the latest physiotherapy case was when I handed over tactile diagrams of the foot to the judges. how many organisations have these machines, how many will do it on time, how many readily teach their kids to read and understand these?Sorry for going off on a tangent. Lets get back to the real issue of the examinations. Kanchan - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 02
Re: [AI] Examinations
Making available diagrams which are in the question paper in tactile format to examinee, is farfetched, at least now. Alternative questions are best strategy, me thinks. Further, We would do well to guard against imposition of scribes, which I think we are not doing. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of akhilesh Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 12:22 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations Dear Mam, UGC net paper has also be included in the list, and it needs the special and seprat attention. more I'll write later. On 9/2/10, Kartik Sawhney sawhney.kar...@gmail.com wrote: We are discussing about tactile formats. But, my question is: there are certain figures involving very complecated stuff. And, one shouldn't forget 3D diagrams. How can we attempt such questions or represent them using tactile diagrams? I'll share my experiences in the NTSE here. In the theory test, there were questions on non-verbal reasoning as in count the No. of squares, complete the pattern, folded paper and what not. Even if we understand the picture, it will be difficult for a person who's never seen anything to visualise and comprehend the figure properly. Writer's assistance will still be required. Eventually, this is not the true ability and intellect of the candidate which is being tested. The concept of tactile diagrams work well only where the figures are easy to interpret. But, one cannot be sure of the complexity in figures. So, according to me, the best bet will be alternate theoretical questions, testing the same concept in a different way. -Kartik On 9/3/10, Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Rajesh, very complicated and too much emphasis on the candidate being able to prove and too many variables. anyway lets look at it in more details. The more complicated we make it the tougher it will be to live with later. Getting it passed is not the problem. Need to be practical. Kanchan - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations 1. I said should not have appeared in the past, primarily to satisfy paranoids. However, it is better dropped. Or at least, a reasonable time limit, say past three years, may be prescribed. However, it also will lay the onus of proving the non-appearance on the candidate or scribe which is difficult. 2. Upper age limit I mentioned to mean that scribe should not be ineligible merely due to upper age limit for taking the exam. So, this condition does not apply to exams where there is no age limit. Hence, anybody, say who cannot appear for M.A. part 2 in English, because she does not have M.A. part 1 pass certificate in English, will be able to be a scribe. So will be anybody who has done PG in say, physics, or PH.D. in anything but English, for that matter. Upper age limit will come into play when, say, I take a scribe for SBI exam where upper age limit is 28 years, and minimum qualification for applying is graduation. So, a person who is 35, but who is a graduate cannot be a scribe, for she could herself have taken the exam, but for her being overage. Here, anybody who does not have a graduation degree will be a scribe I know this condition will deviate a little from strictly having one year junior scribe, but I propose it to be a short eligibility criteria for all exams. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:13 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations 1. How is it possible to prove that someone did not give the exam in the past? If the writer is younger than the candidate it may be possible but if my mom wrote an exam eg. a exam for recruiting to SBI for you then how will you prove that she didnt sit for the same exam 30 years ago? 2 . Also there are many exams like M. A. which does not have an upper age limit for the candidate so any person who is about 22 years or more even 100 will be eligible to give the exam. Can such a person be a writer? I dont know lets analyse these situations more in depth. I had started drafting but I put it aside because I knew there were many complications. I have read Apoorva, Kartik,Rakesh and Vasu's views. Waiting for others. This affects each of us and at various times in our lives. I also understand that there is a feeling that there should be tactile questions and that all visual questions should have alternatives. This is a great leap forward. However the young visually challenged have to be taught this from school. Are our organisations either special schools or supplementary facilities ready for this? I can
Re: [AI] Examinations
as per computer exams like BCA/MCA or B.tech/M.tech in this courses some papers are like digital electronics, computer organization, Liniar programming, Theory of computation/automata and object Oriented modeling have lots of simbles, which are not known by other students Accept computer students. so if scribe does not study these subjects he or she can't read and describe the questions, which have the complex and half complete cerkits . so that means that scribe who not atemped the perticular exam 60 to 70% questions are useless (Vary by university to university) . in this condition vi candidates can't pass the exam. On 9/3/10, Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in wrote: Making available diagrams which are in the question paper in tactile format to examinee, is farfetched, at least now. Alternative questions are best strategy, me thinks. Further, We would do well to guard against imposition of scribes, which I think we are not doing. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of akhilesh Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 12:22 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations Dear Mam, UGC net paper has also be included in the list, and it needs the special and seprat attention. more I'll write later. On 9/2/10, Kartik Sawhney sawhney.kar...@gmail.com wrote: We are discussing about tactile formats. But, my question is: there are certain figures involving very complecated stuff. And, one shouldn't forget 3D diagrams. How can we attempt such questions or represent them using tactile diagrams? I'll share my experiences in the NTSE here. In the theory test, there were questions on non-verbal reasoning as in count the No. of squares, complete the pattern, folded paper and what not. Even if we understand the picture, it will be difficult for a person who's never seen anything to visualise and comprehend the figure properly. Writer's assistance will still be required. Eventually, this is not the true ability and intellect of the candidate which is being tested. The concept of tactile diagrams work well only where the figures are easy to interpret. But, one cannot be sure of the complexity in figures. So, according to me, the best bet will be alternate theoretical questions, testing the same concept in a different way. -Kartik On 9/3/10, Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Rajesh, very complicated and too much emphasis on the candidate being able to prove and too many variables. anyway lets look at it in more details. The more complicated we make it the tougher it will be to live with later. Getting it passed is not the problem. Need to be practical. Kanchan - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations 1. I said should not have appeared in the past, primarily to satisfy paranoids. However, it is better dropped. Or at least, a reasonable time limit, say past three years, may be prescribed. However, it also will lay the onus of proving the non-appearance on the candidate or scribe which is difficult. 2. Upper age limit I mentioned to mean that scribe should not be ineligible merely due to upper age limit for taking the exam. So, this condition does not apply to exams where there is no age limit. Hence, anybody, say who cannot appear for M.A. part 2 in English, because she does not have M.A. part 1 pass certificate in English, will be able to be a scribe. So will be anybody who has done PG in say, physics, or PH.D. in anything but English, for that matter. Upper age limit will come into play when, say, I take a scribe for SBI exam where upper age limit is 28 years, and minimum qualification for applying is graduation. So, a person who is 35, but who is a graduate cannot be a scribe, for she could herself have taken the exam, but for her being overage. Here, anybody who does not have a graduation degree will be a scribe I know this condition will deviate a little from strictly having one year junior scribe, but I propose it to be a short eligibility criteria for all exams. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:13 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations 1. How is it possible to prove that someone did not give the exam in the past? If the writer is younger than the candidate it may be possible but if my mom wrote an exam eg. a exam for recruiting to SBI for you then how will you prove that she didnt sit for the same exam 30 years ago? 2 . Also there are many exams like M. A. which does not have an upper age limit for the candidate so any person who is about 22
Re: [AI] Examinations
way of exchange of information and use of expertise. The following are some new points not included in the Draft: 1. Blind students can write their answers on computers. The facility can be extended to include laptops. 2. There are Declaration forms to be filled by both the scribe and the candidate. 3. The scribe has to submit the following certificates: Certified copy of Identification proof Attested copies of Educational Qualifications 4. The candidate may be permitted to draw the diagrams etc. themselves, if desired by them. 5. The Centre Superintendent shall make the sitting arrangements for the dyslexic, blind, physically handicapped and spastic candidates on the ground floor, as far as possible. 6. Alternate type questions may be provided in lieu of questions having visual inputs for the blind candidates in English Communicative, social Sciences, History, Geography and Economics etc. 7. Separate question papers in enlarged print for Maths and Science Technology may be provided for candidates having visual impairment. 8. The Centre Superintendent(s) are directed to send the answer books of special category students in separate covers to the Examination Branch. -- From: Pamnani kanchanpamn...@hotmail.com Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 4:28 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: [AI] Examinations Most of you know that I have been working on the guidelines for examinations especially the issue of scribes for some time. All of us have realised the need for standard guidelines in the country. After the maharashtra guidelines were issued many of you approached me and have been approaching me regularly for All India guidelines. Therefore it is time to act. I have based my work on the: 1. Guidelines in Maharashtra 2. Minutes of meeting held in2008 3. Judgement in Asif's case 4. University of Bombay's circular on psychology I need to know from each of you as to what you want in the new Rules. What you want to safe guard against,What you want the Examination authority to take care of and what will be the visually challenged's responsibility. Anything that I should take into account especially for any particular exam. Please ask for the moon we just might get it of course be practical. Think of all the variations and combinations and complications that someone somewhere may face. Thats why I am still on this group. I cannot take care of the idiot who denies the rules but I can ensure good rules on paper at least. So lets go for it. Please dont send me a list of what happened in the past I cant rectify it but I can see that it does not happen again. So requesting for some input. The new rules will apply to : 1. All recruiting exams 2. All college and school exams 3. All entrance exams 4. any other exam that I have forgotten Looking forward to your inputs Thanks Kanchan Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Prashant Ranjan Verma Consultant Training Technical Support DAISY Consortium www.daisy.org Guest Faculty, Equal Opportunity Cell University of Delhi http://eoc.du.ac.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
Hello madam, My views are: 1. the technological developements may be taken in to consideration like computers. computers can be used to read out the question paper and may be answered by a scribe or on the computer. 2. The scribe may be choosen by the candidate himself and strict invigilation may be taken up. 3. Like U G C special questions may be given instead of diagrams and figures. or from such questions blind may be exempted. 4. Extra time should be awarded in case of both online and off line exams. In our state; most of the v i candidates are still suffering in IIITs because they are not provided any fecility for extra time for their online exams. 5. special care may be taken to verrify the answer sheets of visually challenged persons. because i lost a well answered exam by the small mistake of the scribe. Thanks alot for taking my views in consideration. Thanks and regards, Suryanarayana. On 9/2/10, Pamnani kanchanpamn...@hotmail.com wrote: Most of you know that I have been working on the guidelines for examinations especially the issue of scribes for some time. All of us have realised the need for standard guidelines in the country. After the maharashtra guidelines were issued many of you approached me and have been approaching me regularly for All India guidelines. Therefore it is time to act. I have based my work on the: 1. Guidelines in Maharashtra 2. Minutes of meeting held in2008 3. Judgement in Asif's case 4. University of Bombay's circular on psychology I need to know from each of you as to what you want in the new Rules. What you want to safe guard against,What you want the Examination authority to take care of and what will be the visually challenged's responsibility. Anything that I should take into account especially for any particular exam. Please ask for the moon we just might get it of course be practical. Think of all the variations and combinations and complications that someone somewhere may face. Thats why I am still on this group. I cannot take care of the idiot who denies the rules but I can ensure good rules on paper at least. So lets go for it. Please dont send me a list of what happened in the past I cant rectify it but I can see that it does not happen again. So requesting for some input. The new rules will apply to : 1. All recruiting exams 2. All college and school exams 3. All entrance exams 4. any other exam that I have forgotten Looking forward to your inputs Thanks Kanchan Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
[AI] Examinations
Most of you know that I have been working on the guidelines for examinations especially the issue of scribes for some time. All of us have realised the need for standard guidelines in the country. After the maharashtra guidelines were issued many of you approached me and have been approaching me regularly for All India guidelines. Therefore it is time to act. I have based my work on the: 1. Guidelines in Maharashtra 2. Minutes of meeting held in2008 3. Judgement in Asif's case 4. University of Bombay's circular on psychology I need to know from each of you as to what you want in the new Rules. What you want to safe guard against,What you want the Examination authority to take care of and what will be the visually challenged's responsibility. Anything that I should take into account especially for any particular exam. Please ask for the moon we just might get it of course be practical. Think of all the variations and combinations and complications that someone somewhere may face. Thats why I am still on this group. I cannot take care of the idiot who denies the rules but I can ensure good rules on paper at least. So lets go for it. Please dont send me a list of what happened in the past I cant rectify it but I can see that it does not happen again. So requesting for some input. The new rules will apply to : 1. All recruiting exams 2. All college and school exams 3. All entrance exams 4. any other exam that I have forgotten Looking forward to your inputs Thanks Kanchan Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
I opine that: the only bar on scribe taken by candidate should be that she/he should not be eligible to appear for exactly the same exam at the time she is so acting. This condition should be sufficient to satisfy the paranoids who devise ever new criteria for scribe eligibility. Besides, Imposition of scribe should be guarded against, at the same time leaving scope open for candidate to request a competent scribe in advance, if candidate so wishes. scope should also be left for eleventh hour changes, provided they satisfy the prescribed eligibility mentioned above. Use of technology be facilitated, in conjunction with human aid, and not necessarily as the sole mode for taking the exam. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Pamnani Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 4:29 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: [AI] Examinations Most of you know that I have been working on the guidelines for examinations especially the issue of scribes for some time. All of us have realised the need for standard guidelines in the country. After the maharashtra guidelines were issued many of you approached me and have been approaching me regularly for All India guidelines. Therefore it is time to act. I have based my work on the: 1. Guidelines in Maharashtra 2. Minutes of meeting held in2008 3. Judgement in Asif's case 4. University of Bombay's circular on psychology I need to know from each of you as to what you want in the new Rules. What you want to safe guard against,What you want the Examination authority to take care of and what will be the visually challenged's responsibility. Anything that I should take into account especially for any particular exam. Please ask for the moon we just might get it of course be practical. Think of all the variations and combinations and complications that someone somewhere may face. Thats why I am still on this group. I cannot take care of the idiot who denies the rules but I can ensure good rules on paper at least. So lets go for it. Please dont send me a list of what happened in the past I cant rectify it but I can see that it does not happen again. So requesting for some input. The new rules will apply to : 1. All recruiting exams 2. All college and school exams 3. All entrance exams 4. any other exam that I have forgotten Looking forward to your inputs Thanks Kanchan Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
May I add a proviso to the eligibility condition mentioned in my earlier mail to the effect that the scribe should not have appeared in the same exam at any past time, or could have appeared but for upper age limit. Simplified, the eligibility condition for the scribe should be: Anybody who has not appeared for and is not eligible to appear for exactly the same exam as she is acting as scribe at the time,, and such ineligibility should not be merely due to upper age limit for the exam. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Pamnani Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 4:29 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: [AI] Examinations Most of you know that I have been working on the guidelines for examinations especially the issue of scribes for some time. All of us have realised the need for standard guidelines in the country. After the maharashtra guidelines were issued many of you approached me and have been approaching me regularly for All India guidelines. Therefore it is time to act. I have based my work on the: 1. Guidelines in Maharashtra 2. Minutes of meeting held in2008 3. Judgement in Asif's case 4. University of Bombay's circular on psychology I need to know from each of you as to what you want in the new Rules. What you want to safe guard against,What you want the Examination authority to take care of and what will be the visually challenged's responsibility. Anything that I should take into account especially for any particular exam. Please ask for the moon we just might get it of course be practical. Think of all the variations and combinations and complications that someone somewhere may face. Thats why I am still on this group. I cannot take care of the idiot who denies the rules but I can ensure good rules on paper at least. So lets go for it. Please dont send me a list of what happened in the past I cant rectify it but I can see that it does not happen again. So requesting for some input. The new rules will apply to : 1. All recruiting exams 2. All college and school exams 3. All entrance exams 4. any other exam that I have forgotten Looking forward to your inputs Thanks Kanchan Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete the message and any attachments. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The Reserve Bank of India accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
Hi, I am currently in class X, and am aiming at IIT-JEE and other engineering examinations. What I expect of the examining authorities is: 1. As already mentioned, a scribe who knows about Sciences/any other subjects for that matter, so that he can explain the questions properly to the candidate. Put it across in a different way, in technical subjects like Physics, Chemistry and Mathematics which are full of symbols and other pictorial stuff, the scribe should be such who can easily explain the question properly to the candidate. Invigilation can ensure that no malpractice/unfair means on the part of the candidate is taking place. 2. As far as possible, visually impaired students should be exempted from questions involving figure inputs. For instance, in my case, subjects like Physics and Chemistry have complecated diagrams or structures, that cannot be explained to the visually challenged students that easily. Even if they are explained, the candidate have absolutely no prior exposure to such questions, making it extremely difficult for us to answer it. Therefore, reasonable accomodations in terms of exemption from pictorial inputs to the extent possible should be provided. 3. Suitable extra time should be provided. Although most of the examinations have this rule in place, however many of the professional/technical entrace examinations like IIT-JEE, AIEEE, BITS-to name a few, do not have any such rules. 4. Use of technology in taking the examination should be promoted. For instance, the question papers can be provided on the computers (wherever possible), so that the visually challenged candidate can easily and indipendently answer the questions. I hope that you will consider these inputs seriously, so that the talents and capabilities of all blind students are evaluated on an equal basis with other students. Regards, -Kartik On 9/2/10, Pamnani kanchanpamn...@hotmail.com wrote: Most of you know that I have been working on the guidelines for examinations especially the issue of scribes for some time. All of us have realised the need for standard guidelines in the country. After the maharashtra guidelines were issued many of you approached me and have been approaching me regularly for All India guidelines. Therefore it is time to act. I have based my work on the: 1. Guidelines in Maharashtra 2. Minutes of meeting held in2008 3. Judgement in Asif's case 4. University of Bombay's circular on psychology I need to know from each of you as to what you want in the new Rules. What you want to safe guard against,What you want the Examination authority to take care of and what will be the visually challenged's responsibility. Anything that I should take into account especially for any particular exam. Please ask for the moon we just might get it of course be practical. Think of all the variations and combinations and complications that someone somewhere may face. Thats why I am still on this group. I cannot take care of the idiot who denies the rules but I can ensure good rules on paper at least. So lets go for it. Please dont send me a list of what happened in the past I cant rectify it but I can see that it does not happen again. So requesting for some input. The new rules will apply to : 1. All recruiting exams 2. All college and school exams 3. All entrance exams 4. any other exam that I have forgotten Looking forward to your inputs Thanks Kanchan Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations
1. How is it possible to prove that someone did not give the exam in the past? If the writer is younger than the candidate it may be possible but if my mom wrote an exam eg. a exam for recruiting to SBI for you then how will you prove that she didnt sit for the same exam 30 years ago? 2 . Also there are many exams like M. A. which does not have an upper age limit for the candidate so any person who is about 22 years or more even 100 will be eligible to give the exam. Can such a person be a writer? I dont know lets analyse these situations more in depth. I had started drafting but I put it aside because I knew there were many complications. I have read Apoorva, Kartik,Rakesh and Vasu's views. Waiting for others. This affects each of us and at various times in our lives. I also understand that there is a feeling that there should be tactile questions and that all visual questions should have alternatives. This is a great leap forward. However the young visually challenged have to be taught this from school. Are our organisations either special schools or supplementary facilities ready for this? I can tell you that one of the turning points in the latest physiotherapy case was when I handed over tactile diagrams of the foot to the judges. how many organisations have these machines, how many will do it on time, how many readily teach their kids to read and understand these?Sorry for going off on a tangent. Lets get back to the real issue of the examinations. Kanchan - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations May I add a proviso to the eligibility condition mentioned in my earlier mail to the effect that the scribe should not have appeared in the same exam at any past time, or could have appeared but for upper age limit. Simplified, the eligibility condition for the scribe should be: Anybody who has not appeared for and is not eligible to appear for exactly the same exam as she is acting as scribe at the time,, and such ineligibility should not be merely due to upper age limit for the exam. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Pamnani Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 4:29 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: [AI] Examinations Most of you know that I have been working on the guidelines for examinations especially the issue of scribes for some time. All of us have realised the need for standard guidelines in the country. After the maharashtra guidelines were issued many of you approached me and have been approaching me regularly for All India guidelines. Therefore it is time to act. I have based my work on the: 1. Guidelines in Maharashtra 2. Minutes of meeting held in2008 3. Judgement in Asif's case 4. University of Bombay's circular on psychology I need to know from each of you as to what you want in the new Rules. What you want to safe guard against,What you want the Examination authority to take care of and what will be the visually challenged's responsibility. Anything that I should take into account especially for any particular exam. Please ask for the moon we just might get it of course be practical. Think of all the variations and combinations and complications that someone somewhere may face. Thats why I am still on this group. I cannot take care of the idiot who denies the rules but I can ensure good rules on paper at least. So lets go for it. Please dont send me a list of what happened in the past I cant rectify it but I can see that it does not happen again. So requesting for some input. The new rules will apply to : 1. All recruiting exams 2. All college and school exams 3. All entrance exams 4. any other exam that I have forgotten Looking forward to your inputs Thanks Kanchan Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. Voice your thoughts in the blog to discuss the Rights of persons with disability bill at: http://www.accessindia.org.in/harish/blog.htm To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use, review, distribution, printing or copying of the information contained in this e-mail message and/or attachments to it are strictly prohibited. If you have received this email by error, please notify us by return e-mail or telephone and immediately and permanently delete
Re: [AI] Examinations
1. I said should not have appeared in the past, primarily to satisfy paranoids. However, it is better dropped. Or at least, a reasonable time limit, say past three years, may be prescribed. However, it also will lay the onus of proving the non-appearance on the candidate or scribe which is difficult. 2. Upper age limit I mentioned to mean that scribe should not be ineligible merely due to upper age limit for taking the exam. So, this condition does not apply to exams where there is no age limit. Hence, anybody, say who cannot appear for M.A. part 2 in English, because she does not have M.A. part 1 pass certificate in English, will be able to be a scribe. So will be anybody who has done PG in say, physics, or PH.D. in anything but English, for that matter. Upper age limit will come into play when, say, I take a scribe for SBI exam where upper age limit is 28 years, and minimum qualification for applying is graduation. So, a person who is 35, but who is a graduate cannot be a scribe, for she could herself have taken the exam, but for her being overage. Here, anybody who does not have a graduation degree will be a scribe I know this condition will deviate a little from strictly having one year junior scribe, but I propose it to be a short eligibility criteria for all exams. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:13 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations 1. How is it possible to prove that someone did not give the exam in the past? If the writer is younger than the candidate it may be possible but if my mom wrote an exam eg. a exam for recruiting to SBI for you then how will you prove that she didnt sit for the same exam 30 years ago? 2 . Also there are many exams like M. A. which does not have an upper age limit for the candidate so any person who is about 22 years or more even 100 will be eligible to give the exam. Can such a person be a writer? I dont know lets analyse these situations more in depth. I had started drafting but I put it aside because I knew there were many complications. I have read Apoorva, Kartik,Rakesh and Vasu's views. Waiting for others. This affects each of us and at various times in our lives. I also understand that there is a feeling that there should be tactile questions and that all visual questions should have alternatives. This is a great leap forward. However the young visually challenged have to be taught this from school. Are our organisations either special schools or supplementary facilities ready for this? I can tell you that one of the turning points in the latest physiotherapy case was when I handed over tactile diagrams of the foot to the judges. how many organisations have these machines, how many will do it on time, how many readily teach their kids to read and understand these?Sorry for going off on a tangent. Lets get back to the real issue of the examinations. Kanchan - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations May I add a proviso to the eligibility condition mentioned in my earlier mail to the effect that the scribe should not have appeared in the same exam at any past time, or could have appeared but for upper age limit. Simplified, the eligibility condition for the scribe should be: Anybody who has not appeared for and is not eligible to appear for exactly the same exam as she is acting as scribe at the time,, and such ineligibility should not be merely due to upper age limit for the exam. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Pamnani Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 4:29 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: [AI] Examinations Most of you know that I have been working on the guidelines for examinations especially the issue of scribes for some time. All of us have realised the need for standard guidelines in the country. After the maharashtra guidelines were issued many of you approached me and have been approaching me regularly for All India guidelines. Therefore it is time to act. I have based my work on the: 1. Guidelines in Maharashtra 2. Minutes of meeting held in2008 3. Judgement in Asif's case 4. University of Bombay's circular on psychology I need to know from each of you as to what you want in the new Rules. What you want to safe guard against,What you want the Examination authority to take care of and what will be the visually challenged's responsibility. Anything that I should take into account especially for any particular exam. Please ask for the moon we just might get it of course be practical. Think of all the variations and combinations and complications
Re: [AI] Examinations using pc
Universities in Karnataka give 1* 1/3 more time that is, 20mins extra per hour. Even the UGC has this above said facility. - Original Message - From: Taraprakash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pamnani [EMAIL PROTECTED]; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations using pc That's what we do, balance the western excesses. I said that university arbitrarily decide on the extra time. Delhi university allows 1 3rd extra time (1 hour to be more precise for 3 hour exam). JNU provides 50% extra time for the entrance exams. In the US you can get double of normal time even for a test like GRE. But the standard is 50 % extra. I will try to fish out the UGC circular in the matter. May be you'll need to wait till summers. - Original Message - From: pamnani [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 6:44 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations using pc Tara, Universal where? Do you know if it is written anywhere? I have never got more than 30 mins extra for a 3 hour paper. We must check this out completely. It will be really helpful. I would have stood first in all my exams if I had had more time to finish the paper. If anybody has a circular or any reference please mail it to the group. Kanchan - Original Message - From: Taraprakash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 21:48 Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations using pc That is the universal standard. universities arbitrarily decide the amount of extra time. But that can be legally challenged. - Original Message - From: rajesh asudani [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations using pc Well, the ratio of 50% extra time is something new for me. Has it been recently fixed by UGC? hitherto we used to get either half an hour or in case of some universities like Nagpur and [perhaps delhi also], one full hour extra.. Rajesh - Original Message - From: Taraprakash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations using pc UGC provides for 50 % extra time. so If the total time allowed is 3 hours, you should get 4.5 hours. The computer crash or load shading all depend on your luck. You have no legal right on asking for more extra time. what you can however, ask for is uninterupted power supply. - Original Message - From: Shadab Husain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:02 PM Subject: [AI] Examinations using pc Friends, I have some questions on giving examinations using pc. 1. what if the electricity goes off during the exam, and the substituting device takes time to start? Will we get extra time for that? 2. we are not getting any extra time, but almost everyone makes typographical errors, and it is easier for sighted people to catch their mistakes because they look at the screen when they type; but we don't look. Do we not deserve any extra time for proof reading? 3. the speed of the computer, in my humble opinion, plays a crucial role while typing. For example, if we are using the option of both characters and words while typing on pentium 4, and the ram is less than 256, jaws takes a little time to speak the typed letter, and when we press the space bar in order to listen the word, it takes half a second to speak the word. And sometimes this takes more than this! Will we get a p 4 with 512 ram to take our examination? trusting a reply from you Shadab Husain To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit
Re: [AI] Examinations using pc
can anyone give the circular regarding examination using pc please? best of regards, shadab husain On 12/4/06, rajesh asudani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, the ratio of 50% extra time is something new for me. Has it been recently fixed by UGC? hitherto we used to get either half an hour or in case of some universities like Nagpur and [perhaps delhi also], one full hour extra.. Rajesh - Original Message - From: Taraprakash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations using pc UGC provides for 50 % extra time. so If the total time allowed is 3 hours, you should get 4.5 hours. The computer crash or load shading all depend on your luck. You have no legal right on asking for more extra time. what you can however, ask for is uninterupted power supply. - Original Message - From: Shadab Husain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:02 PM Subject: [AI] Examinations using pc Friends, I have some questions on giving examinations using pc. 1. what if the electricity goes off during the exam, and the substituting device takes time to start? Will we get extra time for that? 2. we are not getting any extra time, but almost everyone makes typographical errors, and it is easier for sighted people to catch their mistakes because they look at the screen when they type; but we don't look. Do we not deserve any extra time for proof reading? 3. the speed of the computer, in my humble opinion, plays a crucial role while typing. For example, if we are using the option of both characters and words while typing on pentium 4, and the ram is less than 256, jaws takes a little time to speak the typed letter, and when we press the space bar in order to listen the word, it takes half a second to speak the word. And sometimes this takes more than this! Will we get a p 4 with 512 ram to take our examination? trusting a reply from you Shadab Husain To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations using pc
That is the universal standard. universities arbitrarily decide the amount of extra time. But that can be legally challenged. - Original Message - From: rajesh asudani [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations using pc Well, the ratio of 50% extra time is something new for me. Has it been recently fixed by UGC? hitherto we used to get either half an hour or in case of some universities like Nagpur and [perhaps delhi also], one full hour extra.. Rajesh - Original Message - From: Taraprakash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations using pc UGC provides for 50 % extra time. so If the total time allowed is 3 hours, you should get 4.5 hours. The computer crash or load shading all depend on your luck. You have no legal right on asking for more extra time. what you can however, ask for is uninterupted power supply. - Original Message - From: Shadab Husain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:02 PM Subject: [AI] Examinations using pc Friends, I have some questions on giving examinations using pc. 1. what if the electricity goes off during the exam, and the substituting device takes time to start? Will we get extra time for that? 2. we are not getting any extra time, but almost everyone makes typographical errors, and it is easier for sighted people to catch their mistakes because they look at the screen when they type; but we don't look. Do we not deserve any extra time for proof reading? 3. the speed of the computer, in my humble opinion, plays a crucial role while typing. For example, if we are using the option of both characters and words while typing on pentium 4, and the ram is less than 256, jaws takes a little time to speak the typed letter, and when we press the space bar in order to listen the word, it takes half a second to speak the word. And sometimes this takes more than this! Will we get a p 4 with 512 ram to take our examination? trusting a reply from you Shadab Husain To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations using pc
Well, the ratio of 50% extra time is something new for me. Has it been recently fixed by UGC? hitherto we used to get either half an hour or in case of some universities like Nagpur and [perhaps delhi also], one full hour extra.. Rajesh - Original Message - From: Taraprakash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations using pc UGC provides for 50 % extra time. so If the total time allowed is 3 hours, you should get 4.5 hours. The computer crash or load shading all depend on your luck. You have no legal right on asking for more extra time. what you can however, ask for is uninterupted power supply. - Original Message - From: Shadab Husain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:02 PM Subject: [AI] Examinations using pc Friends, I have some questions on giving examinations using pc. 1. what if the electricity goes off during the exam, and the substituting device takes time to start? Will we get extra time for that? 2. we are not getting any extra time, but almost everyone makes typographical errors, and it is easier for sighted people to catch their mistakes because they look at the screen when they type; but we don't look. Do we not deserve any extra time for proof reading? 3. the speed of the computer, in my humble opinion, plays a crucial role while typing. For example, if we are using the option of both characters and words while typing on pentium 4, and the ram is less than 256, jaws takes a little time to speak the typed letter, and when we press the space bar in order to listen the word, it takes half a second to speak the word. And sometimes this takes more than this! Will we get a p 4 with 512 ram to take our examination? trusting a reply from you Shadab Husain To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations using pc
UGC provides for 50 % extra time. so If the total time allowed is 3 hours, you should get 4.5 hours. The computer crash or load shading all depend on your luck. You have no legal right on asking for more extra time. what you can however, ask for is uninterupted power supply. - Original Message - From: Shadab Husain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:02 PM Subject: [AI] Examinations using pc Friends, I have some questions on giving examinations using pc. 1. what if the electricity goes off during the exam, and the substituting device takes time to start? Will we get extra time for that? 2. we are not getting any extra time, but almost everyone makes typographical errors, and it is easier for sighted people to catch their mistakes because they look at the screen when they type; but we don't look. Do we not deserve any extra time for proof reading? 3. the speed of the computer, in my humble opinion, plays a crucial role while typing. For example, if we are using the option of both characters and words while typing on pentium 4, and the ram is less than 256, jaws takes a little time to speak the typed letter, and when we press the space bar in order to listen the word, it takes half a second to speak the word. And sometimes this takes more than this! Will we get a p 4 with 512 ram to take our examination? trusting a reply from you Shadab Husain To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations using pc
4.5 hours should be enough time for anyone who is comfortable with computer. A well-functioning UPS can bridge the gap till the substituting device (though I'm not sure what do you mean by that. Generators?) would start. Secondly, if you are typing with both word and character mode, there is no reason why you should lag behind a sighted person while proof reading. Finally, I doubt the opinion made about the speed. P4 with 256 Ram, I think, is more than enough. Well, if you get 512, it is all the better. To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations using pc
I never knew that the time is 4.5 hours, thank you very much for telling me this! thank you also for clearing all the other doubts. once, I heard this that there is no extra time for blinds if they take their exams by pc that's why I was perplexed. Cheers! On 12/1/06, Viraj Kafle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 4.5 hours should be enough time for anyone who is comfortable with computer. A well-functioning UPS can bridge the gap till the substituting device (though I'm not sure what do you mean by that. Generators?) would start. Secondly, if you are typing with both word and character mode, there is no reason why you should lag behind a sighted person while proof reading. Finally, I doubt the opinion made about the speed. P4 with 256 Ram, I think, is more than enough. Well, if you get 512, it is all the better. To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations using pc
None the less, check this with your university/college before exam, in case there is any trouble just on the exam day. - Original Message - From: Shadab Husain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 12:24 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations using pc I never knew that the time is 4.5 hours, thank you very much for telling me this! thank you also for clearing all the other doubts. once, I heard this that there is no extra time for blinds if they take their exams by pc that's why I was perplexed. Cheers! On 12/1/06, Viraj Kafle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 4.5 hours should be enough time for anyone who is comfortable with computer. A well-functioning UPS can bridge the gap till the substituting device (though I'm not sure what do you mean by that. Generators?) would start. Secondly, if you are typing with both word and character mode, there is no reason why you should lag behind a sighted person while proof reading. Finally, I doubt the opinion made about the speed. P4 with 256 Ram, I think, is more than enough. Well, if you get 512, it is all the better. To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations using pc
Hello, I think, you are absolutely right. Thanks, Rakesh. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Shadab Husain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:32 AM Subject: [AI] Examinations using pc Friends, I have some questions on giving examinations using pc. 1. what if the electricity goes off during the exam, and the substituting device takes time to start? Will we get extra time for that? 2. we are not getting any extra time, but almost everyone makes typographical errors, and it is easier for sighted people to catch their mistakes because they look at the screen when they type; but we don't look. Do we not deserve any extra time for proof reading? 3. the speed of the computer, in my humble opinion, plays a crucial role while typing. For example, if we are using the option of both characters and words while typing on pentium 4, and the ram is less than 256, jaws takes a little time to speak the typed letter, and when we press the space bar in order to listen the word, it takes half a second to speak the word. And sometimes this takes more than this! Will we get a p 4 with 512 ram to take our examination? trusting a reply from you Shadab Husain To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger.yahoo.com To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations using pc
Hello Neeraj and to all, When I appeared in Entrance Test of LLB [affiliated with Delhi University] in the year of 1994, no extra time was given to me because according to officials, the facility of extra time for blind students is available only in their exams, not in Entrance Test. However, I succeeded this Entrance Test without having this facility. Thanks, rakesh. - Original Message - From: Viraj Kafle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations using pc 4.5 hours should be enough time for anyone who is comfortable with computer. A well-functioning UPS can bridge the gap till the substituting device (though I'm not sure what do you mean by that. Generators?) would start. Secondly, if you are typing with both word and character mode, there is no reason why you should lag behind a sighted person while proof reading. Finally, I doubt the opinion made about the speed. P4 with 256 Ram, I think, is more than enough. Well, if you get 512, it is all the better. To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger.yahoo.com To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations using pc
That must have been the misinterpretation of some officials because JNU certainly offers 50% extra time and my assumption is that it applies to all the institutions. - Original Message - From: rakesh kumar gupta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 3:37 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations using pc Hello Neeraj and to all, When I appeared in Entrance Test of LLB [affiliated with Delhi University] in the year of 1994, no extra time was given to me because according to officials, the facility of extra time for blind students is available only in their exams, not in Entrance Test. However, I succeeded this Entrance Test without having this facility. Thanks, rakesh. - Original Message - From: Viraj Kafle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations using pc 4.5 hours should be enough time for anyone who is comfortable with computer. A well-functioning UPS can bridge the gap till the substituting device (though I'm not sure what do you mean by that. Generators?) would start. Secondly, if you are typing with both word and character mode, there is no reason why you should lag behind a sighted person while proof reading. Finally, I doubt the opinion made about the speed. P4 with 256 Ram, I think, is more than enough. Well, if you get 512, it is all the better. To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger.yahoo.com To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Examinations using pc
yes! you are right sir! let the university and college people know that a blind person can operate PC. - Original Message - From: Viraj Kafle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 1:03 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations using pc None the less, check this with your university/college before exam, in case there is any trouble just on the exam day. - Original Message - From: Shadab Husain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 12:24 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Examinations using pc I never knew that the time is 4.5 hours, thank you very much for telling me this! thank you also for clearing all the other doubts. once, I heard this that there is no extra time for blinds if they take their exams by pc that's why I was perplexed. Cheers! On 12/1/06, Viraj Kafle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 4.5 hours should be enough time for anyone who is comfortable with computer. A well-functioning UPS can bridge the gap till the substituting device (though I'm not sure what do you mean by that. Generators?) would start. Secondly, if you are typing with both word and character mode, there is no reason why you should lag behind a sighted person while proof reading. Finally, I doubt the opinion made about the speed. P4 with 256 Ram, I think, is more than enough. Well, if you get 512, it is all the better. To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in DISCLAIMER: The Information transmitted in this email is solely for the addressee. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorized. Any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken by anyone other than by the intended recipient is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient then kindly delete the mail from your system. Any opinion or views expressed in this mail may not necessarily reflect that of Punjab National Bank. The bank considers unencrypted email as an insecure mode of communication. To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
