Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

[Darren Shea]

I have mostly had good luck with fs.com, but in those circumstances where
they aren't as compatible as I want, fluxlight.com is pretty good, too.

 

https://www.fluxlight.com/sfp-10g-lr/

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2019 11:58 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

 

Hi

 

We are using CCR 1036-8G-2S+, what Single Mode LR Fiber 10G SFP+ compatible
modules are you using successfully?  

 

Thanks

 

Adam

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Re: [AFMUG] Real threat

[Robert Andrews]

Phased array lasers?  or more properly Optical phased array 
transmitter...


On 05/09/2019 02:19 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
These are the guys the landed a rocket ship on its tail feathers on a 
tiny barge in open ocean...

They can obviously do difficult things.
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 2:56 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Real threat
I got into a discussion on Quora about this the other day.

Their FCC filing says they'll use 2000mhz of bandwidth for the Satellite 
to User Terminal downlink.  However many satellites they have, they'll 
be limited to 2000mhz per geographic area.  If we generously assume 10 
bits/hz then that's 20gbps.  That's useful, especially in rural areas, 
but it's not enough to replace cable or fiber like some pundits seem to 
think


Consider the trouble you can have coordinating channels for 50 or 100 
stationary towers.  Apply that problem to thousands of moving 
satellites.  That's a serious engineering problem in and of itself.  
Maybe do-able in software, but not easy.


A person in the discussion pointed out that if the satellites are going 
to use lasers to communicate with each other then they'll have to keep 
adjusting alignment on those lasers constantly.  The servo aiming the 
laser must apply torque to the satellite which has to be countered by 
either propellant or maybe a counter rotating motor on the other side of 
the satellite. It wouldn't be a big deal except they're moving 
constantly, so that's another big engineering problem.


They also have to manage station keeping and maintenance for 7 times the 
number of man-made satellites currently in operation for the whole world.


The potential for better rural internet is nice and all, but if they 
really get all of this working it's an engineering feat on par with 
building the pyramids.


-Adam


On 5/8/2019 5:09 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


So we are roughly a week away from seeing how quickly this can scale.

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-schedules-starlink-launch-debut/

bp


On 4/18/2019 7:42 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Visible antennas
Cost per mbps
Latency
I will keep my head in the sand.
*From:* dave
*Sent:* Thursday, April 18, 2019 8:15 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Real threat
LOL... Yep..

On 4/18/19 9:05 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Well, well, well. Reality may be rearing its ugly head...

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4254917-spacex-backtracking-satellite-internet-puts-future-profits-doubt 




bp


On 4/4/2019 5:21 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Sounds like a job for Space Force.

Actually, I'm a little confused.  Will these LEO sats be 5G?  What 
good are

they if they aren't 5G?  How are we going to get remote surgery and
self-driving vehicles without 5G?

I wish these big corporations would make up their minds, do I need 
a small
cell 1000 feet away because , or do I need thousands of 
satellites
whizzing overhead 50 miles up? Seems like polar opposites, but 
apparently

we gotta have 'em.


-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2019 7:03 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Real threat

And one more Indian anti-sat test to turn it all into chaff...

On 04/04/2019 04:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
So now in addition to Elon and his thousands of satellites, and 
OneWeb

with their thousands of satellites, we will now add Bezos and another
few thousand satellites:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-com-broadband/amazon-plans-t 

o-launch-over-3000-satellites-to-offer-broadband-internet-idUSKCN1RG1Y 


W

bp


On 3/20/2019 10:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Oh, no, Elon will be able to market it to all Tesla owners!  And 
have

kiosks in all the Tesla stores! We're doomed!

So I guess what I'm saying is technology doesn't sell, marketing
sells, and it all depends on who they partner with to actually sell
service to end customers. Also of course they are not the only
company doing this. OneWeb for example.  SpaceX has the advantage of
having their own launch service and being able to piggyback on other
payloads.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Chuck 
McCown

*Sent:* Wednesday, March 20, 2019 12:09 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Real threat

Or is the sky falling?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/7zqm2c/starlink_faq/





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Re: [AFMUG] Real threat

[chuck]

These are the guys the landed a rocket ship on its tail feathers on a tiny 
barge in open ocean...
They can obviously do difficult things.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 2:56 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Real threat

I got into a discussion on Quora about this the other day.

Their FCC filing says they'll use 2000mhz of bandwidth for the Satellite to 
User Terminal downlink.  However many satellites they have, they'll be limited 
to 2000mhz per geographic area.  If we generously assume 10 bits/hz then that's 
20gbps.  That's useful, especially in rural areas, but it's not enough to 
replace cable or fiber like some pundits seem to think 

Consider the trouble you can have coordinating channels for 50 or 100 
stationary towers.  Apply that problem to thousands of moving satellites.  
That's a serious engineering problem in and of itself.  Maybe do-able in 
software, but not easy.

A person in the discussion pointed out that if the satellites are going to use 
lasers to communicate with each other then they'll have to keep adjusting 
alignment on those lasers constantly.  The servo aiming the laser must apply 
torque to the satellite which has to be countered by either propellant or maybe 
a counter rotating motor on the other side of the satellite. It wouldn't be a 
big deal except they're moving constantly, so that's another big engineering 
problem.

They also have to manage station keeping and maintenance for 7 times the number 
of man-made satellites currently in operation for the whole world.

The potential for better rural internet is nice and all, but if they really get 
all of this working it's an engineering feat on par with building the pyramids. 

-Adam



On 5/8/2019 5:09 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

  So we are roughly a week away from seeing how quickly this can scale.

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-schedules-starlink-launch-debut/ 

bp


On 4/18/2019 7:42 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Visible antennas
Cost per mbps
Latency

I will keep my head in the sand.  

From: dave 
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 8:15 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Real threat

LOL... Yep.. 



On 4/18/19 9:05 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

  Well, well, well. Reality may be rearing its ugly head... 

  
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4254917-spacex-backtracking-satellite-internet-puts-future-profits-doubt
 


  bp 
   

  On 4/4/2019 5:21 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 

Sounds like a job for Space Force. 

Actually, I'm a little confused.  Will these LEO sats be 5G?  What good 
are 
they if they aren't 5G?  How are we going to get remote surgery and 
self-driving vehicles without 5G? 

I wish these big corporations would make up their minds, do I need a 
small 
cell 1000 feet away because , or do I need thousands of 
satellites 
whizzing overhead 50 miles up?  Seems like polar opposites, but 
apparently 
we gotta have 'em. 


-Original Message- 
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert Andrews 
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2019 7:03 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Real threat 

And one more Indian anti-sat test to turn it all into chaff... 

On 04/04/2019 04:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 

  So now in addition to Elon and his thousands of satellites, and 
OneWeb 
  with their thousands of satellites, we will now add Bezos and another 
  few thousand satellites: 

  
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-com-broadband/amazon-plans-t 
  
o-launch-over-3000-satellites-to-offer-broadband-internet-idUSKCN1RG1Y 
  W 

  bp 
   

  On 3/20/2019 10:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 

Oh, no, Elon will be able to market it to all Tesla owners!  And 
have 
kiosks in all the Tesla stores! We're doomed! 

So I guess what I'm saying is technology doesn't sell, marketing 
sells, and it all depends on who they partner with to actually sell 
service to end customers.  Also of course they are not the only 
company doing this.  OneWeb for example.  SpaceX has the advantage 
of 
having their own launch service and being able to piggyback on 
other 
payloads. 

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Chuck 
McCown 
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 20, 2019 12:09 PM 
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Real threat 

Or is the sky falling? 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/7zqm2c/starlink_faq/ 





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Re: [AFMUG] Real threat

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I think the laser aiming is the least of the problem areas. The
  satellites will be in a more or less constant position relative to
  each other and there are probably non-mechanical ways to aim
  lasers.
I, for one, will be impressed to see how many the "dozens" they
  plan to launch next week actually turn out to be. I would be
  impressed if it's just 24, but my impression would go up for each
  additional dozen. Could be as many as 60 for this launch.


bp



On 5/9/2019 1:56 PM, Adam Moffett
  wrote:


  
  I got into a discussion on Quora about this the other day.
  
  Their FCC filing says they'll use 2000mhz of bandwidth for the
  Satellite to User Terminal downlink.  However many satellites they
  have, they'll be limited to 2000mhz per geographic area.  If we
  generously assume 10 bits/hz then that's 20gbps.  That's useful,
  especially in rural areas, but it's not enough to replace cable or
  fiber like some pundits seem to think 
  
  Consider the trouble you can have coordinating channels for 50 or
  100 stationary towers.  Apply that problem to thousands of moving
  satellites.  That's a serious engineering problem in and of
  itself.  Maybe do-able in software, but not easy.
  
  A person in the discussion pointed out that if the satellites are
  going to use lasers to communicate with each other then they'll
  have to keep adjusting alignment on those lasers constantly.  The
  servo aiming the laser must apply torque to the satellite which
  has to be countered by either propellant or maybe a counter
  rotating motor on the other side of the satellite. It wouldn't be
  a big deal except they're moving constantly, so that's another big
  engineering problem.
  
  They also have to manage station keeping and maintenance for 7
  times the number of man-made satellites currently in operation for
  the whole world.
  
  The potential for better rural internet is nice and all, but if
  they really get all of this working it's an engineering feat on
  par with building the pyramids. 
  
  -Adam
  
  
  On 5/8/2019 5:09 PM, Bill Prince
wrote:
  
  

So we are roughly a week away from seeing how quickly this
  can scale.

  https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-schedules-starlink-launch-debut/
  

bp



On 4/18/2019 7:42 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  Visible antennas
  Cost per mbps
  Latency
   
  I will keep my head in the sand.  
  

   
  
From: dave 
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 8:15 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Real threat
  

 
  
  LOL...
Yep.. 

  
On 4/18/19 9:05 AM, Bill
  Prince wrote:

Well, well, well. Reality may be rearing
  its ugly head... 
  
  https://seekingalpha.com/article/4254917-spacex-backtracking-satellite-internet-puts-future-profits-doubt
  
  
  
  bp 
   
  
  On 4/4/2019 5:21 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 
  Sounds like a job for Space
Force. 

Actually, I'm a little confused.  Will these LEO
sats be 5G?  What good are 
they if they aren't 5G?  How are we going to get
remote surgery and 
self-driving vehicles without 5G? 

I wish these big corporations would make up their
minds, do I need a small 
cell 1000 feet away because , or do I
need thousands of satellites 
whizzing overhead 50 miles up?  Seems like polar
opposites, but apparently 
we gotta have 'em. 


-Original Message- 
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
On Behalf Of Robert Andrews 
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2019 7:03 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Real threat 

And one more Indian anti-sat test to turn it all
into chaff... 

Re: [AFMUG] Real threat

[Adam Moffett]

I got into a discussion on Quora about this the other day.

Their FCC filing says they'll use 2000mhz of bandwidth for the Satellite 
to User Terminal downlink.  However many satellites they have, they'll 
be limited to 2000mhz per geographic area.  If we generously assume 10 
bits/hz then that's 20gbps.  That's useful, especially in rural areas, 
but it's not enough to replace cable or fiber like some pundits seem to 
think


Consider the trouble you can have coordinating channels for 50 or 100 
stationary towers.  Apply that problem to thousands of moving 
satellites.  That's a serious engineering problem in and of itself. 
Maybe do-able in software, but not easy.


A person in the discussion pointed out that if the satellites are going 
to use lasers to communicate with each other then they'll have to keep 
adjusting alignment on those lasers constantly.  The servo aiming the 
laser must apply torque to the satellite which has to be countered by 
either propellant or maybe a counter rotating motor on the other side of 
the satellite. It wouldn't be a big deal except they're moving 
constantly, so that's another big engineering problem.


They also have to manage station keeping and maintenance for 7 times the 
number of man-made satellites currently in operation for the whole world.


The potential for better rural internet is nice and all, but if they 
really get all of this working it's an engineering feat on par with 
building the pyramids.


-Adam


On 5/8/2019 5:09 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


So we are roughly a week away from seeing how quickly this can scale.

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-schedules-starlink-launch-debut/

bp


On 4/18/2019 7:42 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Visible antennas
Cost per mbps
Latency
I will keep my head in the sand.
*From:* dave
*Sent:* Thursday, April 18, 2019 8:15 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Real threat
LOL... Yep..

On 4/18/19 9:05 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Well, well, well. Reality may be rearing its ugly head...

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4254917-spacex-backtracking-satellite-internet-puts-future-profits-doubt 




bp


On 4/4/2019 5:21 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Sounds like a job for Space Force.

Actually, I'm a little confused.  Will these LEO sats be 5G?  What 
good are

they if they aren't 5G?  How are we going to get remote surgery and
self-driving vehicles without 5G?

I wish these big corporations would make up their minds, do I need 
a small
cell 1000 feet away because , or do I need thousands of 
satellites
whizzing overhead 50 miles up?  Seems like polar opposites, but 
apparently

we gotta have 'em.


-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2019 7:03 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Real threat

And one more Indian anti-sat test to turn it all into chaff...

On 04/04/2019 04:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
So now in addition to Elon and his thousands of satellites, and 
OneWeb

with their thousands of satellites, we will now add Bezos and another
few thousand satellites:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-com-broadband/amazon-plans-t 

o-launch-over-3000-satellites-to-offer-broadband-internet-idUSKCN1RG1Y 


W

bp


On 3/20/2019 10:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Oh, no, Elon will be able to market it to all Tesla owners!  And 
have

kiosks in all the Tesla stores! We're doomed!

So I guess what I'm saying is technology doesn't sell, marketing
sells, and it all depends on who they partner with to actually sell
service to end customers.  Also of course they are not the only
company doing this.  OneWeb for example.  SpaceX has the 
advantage of

having their own launch service and being able to piggyback on other
payloads.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Chuck 
McCown

*Sent:* Wednesday, March 20, 2019 12:09 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Real threat

Or is the sky falling?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/7zqm2c/starlink_faq/





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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com








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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

[Richard Strittmatter]

https://www.fs.com/products/11591.html

We use a bunch of these.. Dell Coded, Intel coded, generic.. doesn't seem to 
matter, they all work fine for us.

We've also used their bidi, and cwdm ones with no issues.

Richard

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 1:36 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

Which one?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Richard Strittmatter
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 10:01 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

Fs.com

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 11:58 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

Hi

We are using CCR 1036-8G-2S+, what Single Mode LR Fiber 10G SFP+ compatible 
modules are you using successfully?

Thanks

Adam
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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

[chuck]

We had a customer have an SFP fail after we put a visual reg light on its 
input.  I don’t think that should have killed it.  He was questioning whether 
or not the fiber was working.  We put on the red light and he later swapped out 
the SFP and things started working.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 12:47 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

I've not had any issues with their jumpers. Their outdoor pigtails, on the 
other hand, have never worked at all for me. It's like they're making them with 
the wrong fiber type.

On Thursday, May 9, 2019,  wrote:

  I have had problems with fs.com jumpers lately.  Starting to worry about 
using any of their stuff.  

  From: SmarterBroadband 
  Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 12:35 PM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

  Which one?



  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Richard Strittmatter
  Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 10:01 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+



  Fs.com



  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
  Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 11:58 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+



  Hi



  We are using CCR 1036-8G-2S+, what Single Mode LR Fiber 10G SFP+ compatible 
modules are you using successfully?  



  Thanks



  Adam


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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

[Jason McKemie]

I've not had any issues with their jumpers. Their outdoor pigtails, on the
other hand, have never worked at all for me. It's like they're making them
with the wrong fiber type.

On Thursday, May 9, 2019,  wrote:

> I have had problems with fs.com jumpers lately.  Starting to worry about
> using any of their stuff.
>
> *From:* SmarterBroadband
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 12:35 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+
>
>
> Which one?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Richard
> Strittmatter
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 10:01 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+
>
>
>
> Fs.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *
> SmarterBroadband
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 11:58 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+
>
>
>
> Hi
>
>
>
> We are using CCR 1036-8G-2S+, what Single Mode LR Fiber 10G SFP+
> compatible modules are you using successfully?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Adam
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

[chuck]

I have had problems with fs.com jumpers lately.  Starting to worry about using 
any of their stuff.  

From: SmarterBroadband 
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 12:35 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

Which one?

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Richard Strittmatter
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 10:01 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

 

Fs.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 11:58 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

 

Hi

 

We are using CCR 1036-8G-2S+, what Single Mode LR Fiber 10G SFP+ compatible 
modules are you using successfully?  

 

Thanks

 

Adam




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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

[SmarterBroadband]

Which one?

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Richard Strittmatter
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 10:01 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

 

Fs.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 11:58 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

 

Hi

 

We are using CCR 1036-8G-2S+, what Single Mode LR Fiber 10G SFP+ compatible
modules are you using successfully?  

 

Thanks

 

Adam

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Re: [AFMUG] KentuckyWired fiber mess and "Old Bub" the mule

[Robert Andrews]

How to make an ass out of the gov't...

On 05/09/2019 10:36 AM, Colin Stanners wrote:

image.png

"I decided to give Old Bub a call.

He’s the mule who spent a couple years trudging up and down Eastern 
Kentucky mountains hauling spools of fiber optic cables that would 
eventually haul parts of rural Kentucky into the 21st Century.


He was part of a project that worked. A local deal to bring high-speed 
internet to economically depressed Jackson and Owsley counties.


That project stands in stark contrast to what's happened with a state 
and federal initiative to bring the same service to the rest of Kentucky 
— a project that has been plagued by delays, financial penalties and 
huge cost overruns. "


https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/joseph-gerth/2019/05/09/officials-wont-talk-about-kentuckywired/1145606001/






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Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

[Lewis Bergman]

It wasn't for that use when I was using it but where we spent time you
tried everything. That was the only thing that worked against everything.

On Thu, May 9, 2019, 10:11 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I thought you guys were kidding about some off-label use of an Avon skin
> lotion, but apparently this is for real.  If you look up the active
> ingredient in Wikipedia it lists other repellants including one I think
> from the UK called Smidge.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icaridin#Commercial_products
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Daniel White
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:19 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season
>
>
>
> They call it out right in the description too:
>
>
> https://www.avon.com/product/skin-so-soft-bug-guard-plus-ir3535-expedition-spf-30-family-size-pump-spray-47861?rrec=false
>
> Find yourself an Avon lady Chuck :-)
>
>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.] 
>
> *Daniel White*
>
> Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
>
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. Facebook icon]
>   [image: Image removed by sender.
> LinkedIn icon]    [image:
> Image removed by sender. Youtbue icon]
> 
>
> Lewis Bergman wrote on 5/8/19 19:58:
>
> Avon skin so soft. No idea if they still sell it but when I was in the
> USMC it repelled everything from jungles, swamps, and dessert.
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019, 7:32 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Every year, the biting midge flies come out.  Miserable to be outside my
> shop during certain hours of the day.  I got some mosquito nets that are to
> be worn over the hat.  The bugs get through.
>
>
>
> Nothing we have tried seems to work.  DEET seems to attract them.
>
> We have had a wet spring and there are wetlands next to my shop.  Perfect
> breeding grounds.
>
> Anyone have suggestions other than tyvec full hazmat suit?
>
>
>
> I pine for a bag of DDT wetable powder.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] My grandson Noah Jaime.

[Jaime Solorza]

Yes it is wonderful...I take my grandkids on safe projects and let them get
dirty...I pay them and they learn...my oldest grandson can install camera
systems by himself now ...

On Thu, May 9, 2019, 9:13 AM  wrote:

> Isn’t it wonderful and exciting to see your offspring do so well!
> You should be proud.
>
>
> I am the first person in my family to graduate from college and it took me
> about 5 colleges and 35 years to do it.
> Most of my kids are graduates or are working on it.  I have two with
> graduate degrees.
> However... the MSEE kid still doesn’t seem to know ohm’s law...
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2019 8:39 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] My grandson Noah Jaime.
>
> My daughter Jezzelle just got hired to teach physics at Southwestern
> University to sonogram students.  Practicing her lecture with my 8 year old
> grandson...his older sister is the future EE in our family.
> Proud pops and grandfather.
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

[Robert Andrews]

The margins were because of a lucky circumstance.   Selling to the gov't 
is highly regulated with very specific margins.  Great way to limit your 
growth.   Because the oil companies decided to start doing shot analysis 
in the field instead of recording and bringing back to the office they 
needed a ruggedized field computer.   They bought them like Pez!
   Because ROLM could prove that more than 50% of sales was not to the 
Gov't we could set our own prices and the Gov't had to buy list.  And 
the oil companies were rocking and rolling so the price was high.
  ROLM was descended from a group at GTE that did a lot of military 
radio comms projects and so had good military roots.   They didn't start 
with doing the PBX's that actually came about 5 years later.   They saw 
that Mil-spec was limited in growth and term ( they understood that 
processors would come to dominate, very sharp engineers ).


 You pretty much nailed ROLM ( GREAT PLACE TO WORK, company slogan ) 
except that the PBX's weren't an original thought.   I was there from 
82-85 when the IBM and acquisition and then the Loral spin off of the 
mil-spec systems happened.  We were on the moon when IBM bought and in 
the dumps when the DOJ said IBM had to sell us.


One of the best times was working with Red Force where I got to go up to 
the snake river canyon and watch B-52's fly by below us up the canyon 
from the rim where our Red Force radars ( run by ROLM computers ) were 
the bad actors for the BUFFS to decoy and jam.  Yes we got off the cliff 
when they lit the jammers up, you could cook chicken with the as close 
as they were.   Went there three times with new code and one time they 
flew the snake in fog.   That was totally awesome!   I also worked 
extensively on GLCM and SLCM projects..


 Oh  Ken Oshman was a great CEO and Dennis Pabojian (sp?) was a 
computer savant.. even though he didn't like UNIX.


On 05/09/2019 09:50 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Rolm was an interesting beast.

They started out selling ruggedized DG gear (Rugged Nova was one of 
their first products). They took a basic DG minicomputer, and put it 
into a mil-spec package. None of the components actually came from DG, 
they built it ground up to take a beating at incredible temperature and 
vibration extremes. They also sold it at incredible margins. It was a 
cash cow.


But the CEO said from the beginning that the military-grade computer 
systems were only a means to build cash in order to bootstrap the Rolm 
PBX system. At the time it came to market, it was the Cadillac of PBX 
systems. I lost track of them after that.


--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com


On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 9:44 AM > wrote:


ROLM, have not thought about them for a very long time.  They had ISDN
stuff, right?

-Original Message-
From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 10:31 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

They say success kills more businesses...   I say it is getting the $$
from people that does.  I know of about 5 people who set up businesses,
had fairly good success selling and totally failed at collecting.   I
used to work in sales engineering at some big companies ( IBM, ROLM )
and I couldn't believe the number of salesdroids that absolutely had no
sense of making a sale except giving away the product.  The customers
saw them coming a mile away ( basically the first phone call )..   These
sales would drag the district results in the toilet for the 6 months to
a year to get rid of the non-sales person and impact results for
years...   Usually a 4 to one ratio of salesdroit tries to success..
And these were for products that almost sold themselves...   Two
absolute needs in business, the ability to collect ( and twist and arm )
and the ability to fire..

On 05/09/2019 08:15 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com  wrote:
 > No longer Avon.  We were first married.  She used to lug her
stuff around
 > the small town where I was the “phone man”.  I knew absolutely every
 > person in that town, every dwelling, every dog.  I gave her a
nice list so
 > she wasn’t totally cold calling.  She enjoyed it until it came
time to
 > collect from some of those wonderful people...
 > *From:* Ken Hohhof
 > *Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:11 AM
 > *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
 > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season
 >
 > No longer married, or no longer an Avon lady?
 >
 > (OK, now that is reminding me of the lame old joke that starts
“it won’t
 > be long until we’re married”.)
 >
 > *From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com

 > *Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:57 AM
 > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
 > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

[Richard Strittmatter]

Fs.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 11:58 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

 

Hi

 

We are using CCR 1036-8G-2S+, what Single Mode LR Fiber 10G SFP+ compatible
modules are you using successfully?  

 

Thanks

 

Adam

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[AFMUG] Mikrotik Fiber SFP+

[SmarterBroadband]

Hi

 

We are using CCR 1036-8G-2S+, what Single Mode LR Fiber 10G SFP+ compatible
modules are you using successfully?  

 

Thanks

 

Adam

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Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

[Bill Prince]

Rolm was an interesting beast.

They started out selling ruggedized DG gear (Rugged Nova was one of their
first products). They took a basic DG minicomputer, and put it into a
mil-spec package. None of the components actually came from DG, they built
it ground up to take a beating at incredible temperature and vibration
extremes. They also sold it at incredible margins. It was a cash cow.

But the CEO said from the beginning that the military-grade computer
systems were only a means to build cash in order to bootstrap the Rolm PBX
system. At the time it came to market, it was the Cadillac of PBX systems.
I lost track of them after that.

--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com


On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 9:44 AM  wrote:

> ROLM, have not thought about them for a very long time.  They had ISDN
> stuff, right?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Robert Andrews
> Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 10:31 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season
>
> They say success kills more businesses...   I say it is getting the $$
> from people that does.  I know of about 5 people who set up businesses,
> had fairly good success selling and totally failed at collecting.   I
> used to work in sales engineering at some big companies ( IBM, ROLM )
> and I couldn't believe the number of salesdroids that absolutely had no
> sense of making a sale except giving away the product.  The customers
> saw them coming a mile away ( basically the first phone call )..   These
> sales would drag the district results in the toilet for the 6 months to
> a year to get rid of the non-sales person and impact results for
> years...   Usually a 4 to one ratio of salesdroit tries to success..
> And these were for products that almost sold themselves...   Two
> absolute needs in business, the ability to collect ( and twist and arm )
> and the ability to fire..
>
> On 05/09/2019 08:15 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> > No longer Avon.  We were first married.  She used to lug her stuff
> around
> > the small town where I was the “phone man”.  I knew absolutely every
> > person in that town, every dwelling, every dog.  I gave her a nice list
> so
> > she wasn’t totally cold calling.  She enjoyed it until it came time to
> > collect from some of those wonderful people...
> > *From:* Ken Hohhof
> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:11 AM
> > *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season
> >
> > No longer married, or no longer an Avon lady?
> >
> > (OK, now that is reminding me of the lame old joke that starts “it won’t
> > be long until we’re married”.)
> >
> > *From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:57 AM
> > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season
> >
> > I used to be married to one.
> >
> > *From:*Daniel White
> >
> > *Sent:*Thursday, May 9, 2019 8:19 AM
> >
> > *To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >
> > *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season
> >
> > They call it out right in the description too:
> >
> >
> https://www.avon.com/product/skin-so-soft-bug-guard-plus-ir3535-expedition-spf-30-family-size-pump-spray-47861?rrec=false
> >
> > Find yourself an Avon lady Chuck :-)
> >
> > Image removed by sender. 
> >
> >
> >
> > *Daniel White***
> >
> > Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
> >
> > direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
> >
> > Image removed by sender. Facebook icon
> >  Image removed by sender. LinkedIn
> > icon  Image removed by
> sender.
> > Youtbue icon 
> >
> > Lewis Bergman wrote on 5/8/19 19:58:
> >
> > Avon skin so soft. No idea if they still sell it but when I was in
> > the USMC it repelled everything from jungles, swamps, and dessert.
> >
> > On Wed, May 8, 2019, 7:32 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
> >
> > Every year, the biting midge flies come out.  Miserable to be
> > outside my shop during certain hours of the day.  I got some
> > mosquito nets that are to be worn over the hat.  The bugs get
> > through.
> >
> > Nothing we have tried seems to work.  DEET seems to attract them.
> >
> > We have had a wet spring and there are wetlands next to my
> > shop.  Perfect breeding grounds.
> >
> > Anyone have suggestions other than tyvec full hazmat suit?
> >
> > I pine for a bag of DDT wetable powder.
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> > 
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > 

Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

[Robert Andrews]

Phone switches and office systems.  First decent voice mail, callback, 
etc. etc. etc.   Always battling with Ma Bell.   But I was on the 
original ROLM side which was Mil-Spec computers and was hired as Systems 
engineering and to try to get them into doing a UNIX port which was 
bashing my head against the wall in a Data General household...   We 
made a 65% margin on our sales and, as we called it, threw the profits 
over the wall to support the phone systems side which lost money year 
after year...  But had all the hot buzzz...  Everybody remembers phone 
ROLM, nobody remembers the side that hauled the mail...  I learned how 
to read core memory, did a huge amount of assembly language 
optimization, got a top-secret clearance in two areas, worked on a 
boatload of projects with black curtains all around, and learned who 
really pushed the buttons that really mattered...


On 05/09/2019 09:43 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
ROLM, have not thought about them for a very long time.  They had ISDN 
stuff, right?


-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 10:31 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

They say success kills more businesses...   I say it is getting the $$
from people that does.  I know of about 5 people who set up businesses,
had fairly good success selling and totally failed at collecting.   I
used to work in sales engineering at some big companies ( IBM, ROLM )
and I couldn't believe the number of salesdroids that absolutely had no
sense of making a sale except giving away the product.  The customers
saw them coming a mile away ( basically the first phone call )..   These
sales would drag the district results in the toilet for the 6 months to
a year to get rid of the non-sales person and impact results for
years...   Usually a 4 to one ratio of salesdroit tries to success..
And these were for products that almost sold themselves...   Two
absolute needs in business, the ability to collect ( and twist and arm )
and the ability to fire..

On 05/09/2019 08:15 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
No longer Avon.  We were first married.  She used to lug her stuff 
around the small town where I was the “phone man”.  I knew absolutely 
every person in that town, every dwelling, every dog.  I gave her a 
nice list so she wasn’t totally cold calling.  She enjoyed it until it 
came time to collect from some of those wonderful people...

*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:11 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

No longer married, or no longer an Avon lady?

(OK, now that is reminding me of the lame old joke that starts “it 
won’t be long until we’re married”.)


*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:57 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

I used to be married to one.

*From:*Daniel White

*Sent:*Thursday, May 9, 2019 8:19 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

They call it out right in the description too:

https://www.avon.com/product/skin-so-soft-bug-guard-plus-ir3535-expedition-spf-30-family-size-pump-spray-47861?rrec=false 



Find yourself an Avon lady Chuck :-)

Image removed by sender. 



*Daniel White***

Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations

direct: +1 (702) 470-2766

Image removed by sender. Facebook icon 
 Image removed by sender. 
LinkedIn icon  Image 
removed by sender. Youtbue icon 



Lewis Bergman wrote on 5/8/19 19:58:

Avon skin so soft. No idea if they still sell it but when I was in
the USMC it repelled everything from jungles, swamps, and dessert.

On Wed, May 8, 2019, 7:32 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

Every year, the biting midge flies come out.  Miserable to be
outside my shop during certain hours of the day.  I got some
mosquito nets that are to be worn over the hat.  The bugs get
through.

Nothing we have tried seems to work.  DEET seems to attract them.

We have had a wet spring and there are wetlands next to my
shop.  Perfect breeding grounds.

Anyone have suggestions other than tyvec full hazmat suit?

I pine for a bag of DDT wetable powder.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

[Robert Andrews]

Collecting is part of why I think so many businesses want to go to a 
subscription model..


On 05/09/2019 09:41 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Yep, I have repeated many times that I have never regretted firing 
someone after the fact.

Almost always it is, I should have fired them a long time ago.

Collecting is simple.  Just have to be very persistent.
You don't need to be rude, disrespectful or strident.
Just persistent.
Inform them you will take them to court and you will win.
And then take them to court and win.

-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 10:31 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

They say success kills more businesses...   I say it is getting the $$
from people that does.  I know of about 5 people who set up businesses,
had fairly good success selling and totally failed at collecting.   I
used to work in sales engineering at some big companies ( IBM, ROLM )
and I couldn't believe the number of salesdroids that absolutely had no
sense of making a sale except giving away the product.  The customers
saw them coming a mile away ( basically the first phone call )..   These
sales would drag the district results in the toilet for the 6 months to
a year to get rid of the non-sales person and impact results for
years...   Usually a 4 to one ratio of salesdroit tries to success..
And these were for products that almost sold themselves...   Two
absolute needs in business, the ability to collect ( and twist and arm )
and the ability to fire..

On 05/09/2019 08:15 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
No longer Avon.  We were first married.  She used to lug her stuff 
around the small town where I was the “phone man”.  I knew absolutely 
every person in that town, every dwelling, every dog.  I gave her a 
nice list so she wasn’t totally cold calling.  She enjoyed it until it 
came time to collect from some of those wonderful people...

*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:11 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

No longer married, or no longer an Avon lady?

(OK, now that is reminding me of the lame old joke that starts “it 
won’t be long until we’re married”.)


*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:57 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

I used to be married to one.

*From:*Daniel White

*Sent:*Thursday, May 9, 2019 8:19 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

They call it out right in the description too:

https://www.avon.com/product/skin-so-soft-bug-guard-plus-ir3535-expedition-spf-30-family-size-pump-spray-47861?rrec=false 



Find yourself an Avon lady Chuck :-)

Image removed by sender. 



*Daniel White***

Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations

direct: +1 (702) 470-2766

Image removed by sender. Facebook icon 
 Image removed by sender. 
LinkedIn icon  Image 
removed by sender. Youtbue icon 



Lewis Bergman wrote on 5/8/19 19:58:

Avon skin so soft. No idea if they still sell it but when I was in
the USMC it repelled everything from jungles, swamps, and dessert.

On Wed, May 8, 2019, 7:32 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

Every year, the biting midge flies come out.  Miserable to be
outside my shop during certain hours of the day.  I got some
mosquito nets that are to be worn over the hat.  The bugs get
through.

Nothing we have tried seems to work.  DEET seems to attract them.

We have had a wet spring and there are wetlands next to my
shop.  Perfect breeding grounds.

Anyone have suggestions other than tyvec full hazmat suit?

I pine for a bag of DDT wetable powder.

-- AF mailing list
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

[chuck]

ROLM, have not thought about them for a very long time.  They had ISDN 
stuff, right?


-Original Message- 
From: Robert Andrews

Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 10:31 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

They say success kills more businesses...   I say it is getting the $$
from people that does.  I know of about 5 people who set up businesses,
had fairly good success selling and totally failed at collecting.   I
used to work in sales engineering at some big companies ( IBM, ROLM )
and I couldn't believe the number of salesdroids that absolutely had no
sense of making a sale except giving away the product.  The customers
saw them coming a mile away ( basically the first phone call )..   These
sales would drag the district results in the toilet for the 6 months to
a year to get rid of the non-sales person and impact results for
years...   Usually a 4 to one ratio of salesdroit tries to success..
And these were for products that almost sold themselves...   Two
absolute needs in business, the ability to collect ( and twist and arm )
and the ability to fire..

On 05/09/2019 08:15 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
No longer Avon.  We were first married.  She used to lug her stuff around 
the small town where I was the “phone man”.  I knew absolutely every 
person in that town, every dwelling, every dog.  I gave her a nice list so 
she wasn’t totally cold calling.  She enjoyed it until it came time to 
collect from some of those wonderful people...

*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:11 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

No longer married, or no longer an Avon lady?

(OK, now that is reminding me of the lame old joke that starts “it won’t 
be long until we’re married”.)


*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:57 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

I used to be married to one.

*From:*Daniel White

*Sent:*Thursday, May 9, 2019 8:19 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

They call it out right in the description too:

https://www.avon.com/product/skin-so-soft-bug-guard-plus-ir3535-expedition-spf-30-family-size-pump-spray-47861?rrec=false

Find yourself an Avon lady Chuck :-)

Image removed by sender. 



*Daniel White***

Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations

direct: +1 (702) 470-2766

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Lewis Bergman wrote on 5/8/19 19:58:

Avon skin so soft. No idea if they still sell it but when I was in
the USMC it repelled everything from jungles, swamps, and dessert.

On Wed, May 8, 2019, 7:32 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

Every year, the biting midge flies come out.  Miserable to be
outside my shop during certain hours of the day.  I got some
mosquito nets that are to be worn over the hat.  The bugs get
through.

Nothing we have tried seems to work.  DEET seems to attract them.

We have had a wet spring and there are wetlands next to my
shop.  Perfect breeding grounds.

Anyone have suggestions other than tyvec full hazmat suit?

I pine for a bag of DDT wetable powder.

-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

[chuck]

Yep, I have repeated many times that I have never regretted firing someone 
after the fact.

Almost always it is, I should have fired them a long time ago.

Collecting is simple.  Just have to be very persistent.
You don't need to be rude, disrespectful or strident.
Just persistent.
Inform them you will take them to court and you will win.
And then take them to court and win.

-Original Message- 
From: Robert Andrews

Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 10:31 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

They say success kills more businesses...   I say it is getting the $$
from people that does.  I know of about 5 people who set up businesses,
had fairly good success selling and totally failed at collecting.   I
used to work in sales engineering at some big companies ( IBM, ROLM )
and I couldn't believe the number of salesdroids that absolutely had no
sense of making a sale except giving away the product.  The customers
saw them coming a mile away ( basically the first phone call )..   These
sales would drag the district results in the toilet for the 6 months to
a year to get rid of the non-sales person and impact results for
years...   Usually a 4 to one ratio of salesdroit tries to success..
And these were for products that almost sold themselves...   Two
absolute needs in business, the ability to collect ( and twist and arm )
and the ability to fire..

On 05/09/2019 08:15 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
No longer Avon.  We were first married.  She used to lug her stuff around 
the small town where I was the “phone man”.  I knew absolutely every 
person in that town, every dwelling, every dog.  I gave her a nice list so 
she wasn’t totally cold calling.  She enjoyed it until it came time to 
collect from some of those wonderful people...

*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:11 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

No longer married, or no longer an Avon lady?

(OK, now that is reminding me of the lame old joke that starts “it won’t 
be long until we’re married”.)


*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:57 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

I used to be married to one.

*From:*Daniel White

*Sent:*Thursday, May 9, 2019 8:19 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

They call it out right in the description too:

https://www.avon.com/product/skin-so-soft-bug-guard-plus-ir3535-expedition-spf-30-family-size-pump-spray-47861?rrec=false

Find yourself an Avon lady Chuck :-)

Image removed by sender. 



*Daniel White***

Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations

direct: +1 (702) 470-2766

Image removed by sender. Facebook icon 
 Image removed by sender. LinkedIn 
icon  Image removed by sender. 
Youtbue icon 


Lewis Bergman wrote on 5/8/19 19:58:

Avon skin so soft. No idea if they still sell it but when I was in
the USMC it repelled everything from jungles, swamps, and dessert.

On Wed, May 8, 2019, 7:32 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

Every year, the biting midge flies come out.  Miserable to be
outside my shop during certain hours of the day.  I got some
mosquito nets that are to be worn over the hat.  The bugs get
through.

Nothing we have tried seems to work.  DEET seems to attract them.

We have had a wet spring and there are wetlands next to my
shop.  Perfect breeding grounds.

Anyone have suggestions other than tyvec full hazmat suit?

I pine for a bag of DDT wetable powder.

-- 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

[Robert Andrews]

They say success kills more businesses...   I say it is getting the $$ 
from people that does.  I know of about 5 people who set up businesses, 
had fairly good success selling and totally failed at collecting.   I 
used to work in sales engineering at some big companies ( IBM, ROLM ) 
and I couldn't believe the number of salesdroids that absolutely had no 
sense of making a sale except giving away the product.  The customers 
saw them coming a mile away ( basically the first phone call )..   These 
sales would drag the district results in the toilet for the 6 months to 
a year to get rid of the non-sales person and impact results for 
years...   Usually a 4 to one ratio of salesdroit tries to success.. 
And these were for products that almost sold themselves...   Two 
absolute needs in business, the ability to collect ( and twist and arm ) 
and the ability to fire..


On 05/09/2019 08:15 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
No longer Avon.  We were first married.  She used to lug her stuff 
around the small town where I was the “phone man”.  I knew absolutely 
every person in that town, every dwelling, every dog.  I gave her a nice 
list so she wasn’t totally cold calling.  She enjoyed it until it came 
time to collect from some of those wonderful people...

*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:11 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

No longer married, or no longer an Avon lady?

(OK, now that is reminding me of the lame old joke that starts “it won’t 
be long until we’re married”.)


*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:57 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

I used to be married to one.

*From:*Daniel White

*Sent:*Thursday, May 9, 2019 8:19 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

They call it out right in the description too:

https://www.avon.com/product/skin-so-soft-bug-guard-plus-ir3535-expedition-spf-30-family-size-pump-spray-47861?rrec=false

Find yourself an Avon lady Chuck :-)

Image removed by sender. 



*Daniel White***

Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations

direct: +1 (702) 470-2766

Image removed by sender. Facebook icon 
 Image removed by sender. LinkedIn 
icon  Image removed by 
sender. Youtbue icon 



Lewis Bergman wrote on 5/8/19 19:58:

Avon skin so soft. No idea if they still sell it but when I was in
the USMC it repelled everything from jungles, swamps, and dessert.

On Wed, May 8, 2019, 7:32 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

Every year, the biting midge flies come out.  Miserable to be
outside my shop during certain hours of the day.  I got some
mosquito nets that are to be worn over the hat.  The bugs get
through.

Nothing we have tried seems to work.  DEET seems to attract them.

We have had a wet spring and there are wetlands next to my
shop.  Perfect breeding grounds.

Anyone have suggestions other than tyvec full hazmat suit?

I pine for a bag of DDT wetable powder.

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

[chuck]

No longer Avon.  We were first married.  She used to lug her stuff around the 
small town where I was the “phone man”.  I knew absolutely every person in that 
town, every dwelling, every dog.  I gave her a nice list so she wasn’t totally 
cold calling.  She enjoyed it until it came time to collect from some of those 
wonderful people...

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:11 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

No longer married, or no longer an Avon lady?

 

(OK, now that is reminding me of the lame old joke that starts “it won’t be 
long until we’re married”.)

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:57 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

 

I used to be married to one.  

 

From: Daniel White 

Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 8:19 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

 

They call it out right in the description too:

https://www.avon.com/product/skin-so-soft-bug-guard-plus-ir3535-expedition-spf-30-family-size-pump-spray-47861?rrec=false

Find yourself an Avon lady Chuck :-)

 


 Daniel White
   
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
   
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
   
   
   
 

Lewis Bergman wrote on 5/8/19 19:58:



  Avon skin so soft. No idea if they still sell it but when I was in the USMC 
it repelled everything from jungles, swamps, and dessert.

   

  On Wed, May 8, 2019, 7:32 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

Every year, the biting midge flies come out.  Miserable to be outside my 
shop during certain hours of the day.  I got some mosquito nets that are to be 
worn over the hat.  The bugs get through.  

 

Nothing we have tried seems to work.  DEET seems to attract them.  

We have had a wet spring and there are wetlands next to my shop.  Perfect 
breeding grounds.  

Anyone have suggestions other than tyvec full hazmat suit?

 

I pine for a bag of DDT wetable powder.  

-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] My grandson Noah Jaime.

[chuck]

Isn’t it wonderful and exciting to see your offspring do so well!
You should be proud.  


I am the first person in my family to graduate from college and it took me 
about 5 colleges and 35 years to do it.
Most of my kids are graduates or are working on it.  I have two with graduate 
degrees.
However... the MSEE kid still doesn’t seem to know ohm’s law...


From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2019 8:39 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] My grandson Noah Jaime.

My daughter Jezzelle just got hired to teach physics at Southwestern University 
to sonogram students.  Practicing her lecture with my 8 year old grandson...his 
older sister is the future EE in our family.  
Proud pops and grandfather. 



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Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

[Ken Hohhof]

No longer married, or no longer an Avon lady?

 

(OK, now that is reminding me of the lame old joke that starts “it won’t be 
long until we’re married”.)

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:57 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

 

I used to be married to one.  

 

From: Daniel White 

Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 8:19 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

 

They call it out right in the description too:

https://www.avon.com/product/skin-so-soft-bug-guard-plus-ir3535-expedition-spf-30-family-size-pump-spray-47861?rrec=false

Find yourself an Avon lady Chuck :-)

 


  


Daniel White


Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations


direct: +1 (702) 470-2766


 
 
   

Lewis Bergman wrote on 5/8/19 19:58:



Avon skin so soft. No idea if they still sell it but when I was in the USMC it 
repelled everything from jungles, swamps, and dessert.

 

On Wed, May 8, 2019, 7:32 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

Every year, the biting midge flies come out.  Miserable to be outside my shop 
during certain hours of the day.  I got some mosquito nets that are to be worn 
over the hat.  The bugs get through.  

 

Nothing we have tried seems to work.  DEET seems to attract them.  

We have had a wet spring and there are wetlands next to my shop.  Perfect 
breeding grounds.  

Anyone have suggestions other than tyvec full hazmat suit?

 

I pine for a bag of DDT wetable powder.  

-- 
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  _  

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Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

[Ken Hohhof]

I thought you guys were kidding about some off-label use of an Avon skin 
lotion, but apparently this is for real.  If you look up the active ingredient 
in Wikipedia it lists other repellants including one I think from the UK called 
Smidge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icaridin#Commercial_products

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Daniel White
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 9:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

 

They call it out right in the description too:

https://www.avon.com/product/skin-so-soft-bug-guard-plus-ir3535-expedition-spf-30-family-size-pump-spray-47861?rrec=false

Find yourself an Avon lady Chuck :-)

 


  


Daniel White


Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations


direct: +1 (702) 470-2766


 
 
   

Lewis Bergman wrote on 5/8/19 19:58:



Avon skin so soft. No idea if they still sell it but when I was in the USMC it 
repelled everything from jungles, swamps, and dessert.

 

On Wed, May 8, 2019, 7:32 PM Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Every year, the biting midge flies come out.  Miserable to be outside my shop 
during certain hours of the day.  I got some mosquito nets that are to be worn 
over the hat.  The bugs get through.  

 

Nothing we have tried seems to work.  DEET seems to attract them.  

We have had a wet spring and there are wetlands next to my shop.  Perfect 
breeding grounds.  

Anyone have suggestions other than tyvec full hazmat suit?

 

I pine for a bag of DDT wetable powder.  

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

[chuck]

I used to be married to one.  

From: Daniel White 
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 8:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

They call it out right in the description too:

https://www.avon.com/product/skin-so-soft-bug-guard-plus-ir3535-expedition-spf-30-family-size-pump-spray-47861?rrec=false

Find yourself an Avon lady Chuck :-)


 Daniel White 
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations 
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766 

 

Lewis Bergman wrote on 5/8/19 19:58:

  Avon skin so soft. No idea if they still sell it but when I was in the USMC 
it repelled everything from jungles, swamps, and dessert.

  On Wed, May 8, 2019, 7:32 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

Every year, the biting midge flies come out.  Miserable to be outside my 
shop during certain hours of the day.  I got some mosquito nets that are to be 
worn over the hat.  The bugs get through.  

Nothing we have tried seems to work.  DEET seems to attract them.  
We have had a wet spring and there are wetlands next to my shop.  Perfect 
breeding grounds.  
Anyone have suggestions other than tyvec full hazmat suit?

I pine for a bag of DDT wetable powder.  
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com









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Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

[Daniel White]

They call it out right in the description too:

https://www.avon.com/product/skin-so-soft-bug-guard-plus-ir3535-expedition-spf-30-family-size-pump-spray-47861?rrec=false

Find yourself an Avon lady Chuck :-)


Daniel White
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
Facebook icon  LinkedIn icon 
 Youtbue icon 



Lewis Bergman wrote on 5/8/19 19:58:
Avon skin so soft. No idea if they still sell it but when I was in the 
USMC it repelled everything from jungles, swamps, and dessert.


On Wed, May 8, 2019, 7:32 PM Chuck McCown > wrote:


Every year, the biting midge flies come out.  Miserable to be
outside my shop during certain hours of the day.  I got some
mosquito nets that are to be worn over the hat.  The bugs get
through.
Nothing we have tried seems to work.  DEET seems to attract them.
We have had a wet spring and there are wetlands next to my shop.
Perfect breeding grounds.
Anyone have suggestions other than tyvec full hazmat suit?
I pine for a bag of DDT wetable powder.
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

[Chuck McCown]

Both were fun.  I can relate to the one with the flies.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 8, 2019, at 8:33 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> That’s great.
>  
> Reminds me of another Canadian animation which believe it or not we checked 
> out from the public library when our kids were little:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW9f04Dctz4
>  
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
> Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2019 9:03 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season
>  
>  
> https://youtu.be/qjLBXb1kgMo
>  
>  
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:00 PM Lewis Bergman  wrote:
> Avon skin so soft. No idea if they still sell it but when I was in the USMC 
> it repelled everything from jungles, swamps, and dessert.
>  
> On Wed, May 8, 2019, 7:32 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
> Every year, the biting midge flies come out.  Miserable to be outside my shop 
> during certain hours of the day.  I got some mosquito nets that are to be 
> worn over the hat.  The bugs get through. 
>  
> Nothing we have tried seems to work.  DEET seems to attract them. 
> We have had a wet spring and there are wetlands next to my shop.  Perfect 
> breeding grounds. 
> Anyone have suggestions other than tyvec full hazmat suit?
>  
> I pine for a bag of DDT wetable powder. 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT tis the season

[dave]

Nuthin like the smell of avon in the morning LOL!


On 5/8/19 8:58 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
Avon skin so soft. No idea if they still sell it but when I was in the 
USMC it repelled everything from jungles, swamps, and dessert.


On Wed, May 8, 2019, 7:32 PM Chuck McCown > wrote:


Every year, the biting midge flies come out. Miserable to be
outside my shop during certain hours of the day.  I got some
mosquito nets that are to be worn over the hat.  The bugs get
through.
Nothing we have tried seems to work.  DEET seems to attract them.
We have had a wet spring and there are wetlands next to my shop. 
Perfect breeding grounds.
Anyone have suggestions other than tyvec full hazmat suit?
I pine for a bag of DDT wetable powder.
-- 
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