Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Matt Hoppes]

Hahaha. Exactly my thought. 

> On Sep 21, 2020, at 9:18 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> 
> "their residual gets so high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a 
> great living so they eventually stop selling and just work part time 
> maintaining their base and lifestyle."
> 
> There are worse problems to have. I'd gladly have 47 salespeople that sold so 
> much that they don't actively sell anything anymore and just sit on their 
> butts.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Lewis Bergman" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 11:21:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales
> 
> I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe I am 
> greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that always scuttles 
> sales people I have apus that way is their residual gets so high they no 
> longer have to get new clients to earn a great living so they eventually stop 
> selling and just work part time maintaining their base and lifestyle.
> 
> At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I would 
> either limit residual to some period of months and only extend it if they 
> both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term. 
> 
> None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will produce 
> commission report for you.
> 
>> On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
>> I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5% ongoing. 
>> 
>> I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making more too. 
>> 
>> A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person. Insignificant to 
>> the company, but massive potential for them considering what they are 
>> bringing in. 
>> 
>> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>  We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the monthly 
>> for that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We usually have term 
>> contracts so as to ensure the revenue stream over time since we're paying 
>> the commission up front. We haven't done a recurring commission yet.
>> 
>> Jesse DuPont
>> 
>> Owner / Network Architect
>> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
>> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>> 
>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> On 9/20/20 8:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> Does anyone have an excel sheet or other tracking method for a commissioned 
>> sales person they’d want to share, or share how you do it?
>> 
>> We are hiring our first outside sales person. She has a base salary, but 
>> then gets bonuses based on closed sales, as well as recurring commission for 
>> accounts that stay. 
>> 
>> Trying to figure out the best way to track this. 
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Lewis Bergman
> 325-439-0533 Cell
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Mike Hammett]

"their residual gets so high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a 
great living so they eventually stop selling and just work part time 
maintaining their base and lifestyle." 

There are worse problems to have. I'd gladly have 47 salespeople that sold so 
much that they don't actively sell anything anymore and just sit on their 
butts. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 11:21:35 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales 


I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe I am 
greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that always scuttles 
sales people I have apus that way is their residual gets so high they no longer 
have to get new clients to earn a great living so they eventually stop selling 
and just work part time maintaining their base and lifestyle. 


At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I would 
either limit residual to some period of months and only extend it if they both 
upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term. 


None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will produce 
commission report for you. 


On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net 
> wrote: 




I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5% ongoing. 


I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making more too. 


A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person. Insignificant to the 
company, but massive potential for them considering what they are bringing in. 



On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont < jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net > 
wrote: 






We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the monthly for 
that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We usually have term 
contracts so as to ensure the revenue stream over time since we're paying the 
commission up front. We haven't done a recurring commission yet. 



Jesse DuPont 
Owner / Network Architect 
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net 
Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC 
Like us! facebook.com/ celeritynetworksllc 
Like us! facebook.com/ celeritybroadband 

 

On 9/20/20 8:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 


Does anyone have an excel sheet or other tracking method for a commissioned 
sales person they’d want to share, or share how you do it?

We are hiring our first outside sales person. She has a base salary, but then 
gets bonuses based on closed sales, as well as recurring commission for 
accounts that stay. 

Trying to figure out the best way to track this. 




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-- 


Lewis Bergman 
325-439-0533 Cell 
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[chuck]

A bit of choke can mean that it is starved for fuel.  The choke makes it a 
richer mixture.  


From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 5:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

Well it starts no problem, it just doesn't like running the UPS without a bit 
of choke =/


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robert Andrews  wrote:

  I heart Sta-BIL...  Ski boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full tank, Sta-BIL 
  in a little extra proportion.  Connected new battery, Jumped in, turned 
  key, started.  That doesn't happen with untreated gas...

  On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
  > I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
  > Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
  > that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
  > fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
  > 

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

Well it starts no problem, it just doesn't like running the UPS without a
bit of choke =/

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> I heart Sta-BIL...  Ski boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full tank, Sta-BIL
> in a little extra proportion.  Connected new battery, Jumped in, turned
> key, started.  That doesn't happen with untreated gas...
>
> On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
> > I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
> > Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
> > that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
> > fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[chuck]

Been there, land of Dilbert.

-Original Message- 
From: Robert Andrews

Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 4:30 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

Divorcing the sales from the support can lead to sales promising more
than support can deliver...

On 09/21/2020 02:24 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Ding ding ding!!!  It’s not just the sale but the service after the sale

On Sep 21, 2020, at 5:20 PM, Lewis Bergman  
wrote:



Accidentally sent. At any rate Enterprise pays a good base plus 
commission to a salesperson dedicated to bringing in new business. After 
the contract signing they bring in your account manager for a soft 
handoff and that person takes it home from there. They do a great job of 
it. So much so I asked them how they were compensated. It breaks down 
like this:


New customer sales person gets a good base and if I remember correctly, 
15% commission. The account manager gets a 5% of that original.sale. Any 
new business into that account generates a recurring revenue of 3% for 
the new customer rep and 5% for the account manager. It created a real 
team approach I have always found their approach to be a great balance 
and an example of how to keep that person with what it takes to bring in 
new customers doing just that and make sure they are rewarded for the 
long term.


The salesperson who can win new accounts is many times, not the best 
person to make sure a customer stays happy.


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:13 PM Lewis Bergman > wrote:


I don't think I mentioned anything about residential or business.
I would assume you would only want/need a sales person for
business accounts. Mass media can handle the residential subs. 10%
of gross is a pretty huge number, but hey, it's your call of
course. The trouble comes when they do everything you asked them
to, and you can't afford them. Then what.

I would just be really cautious about residuals and
definitely have an expiration less than that of the contract. But
maybe you will have a better experience than all the salespeople
that have worked for me. You can get someone to maintain $2M worth
of accounts for a lot less than $200,000.In fact, you can likely
get 3 people. The issue is once they start making $200k a year
from residual, will they work just as hard to bring you another
$2M or just sit back and coast.

Enterprise Fleet has an interesting approach where they pay the
salesperson

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:41 AM Matt Hoppes
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:

This is for business.   Not residential.

On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual,
but maybe I
> am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for
that always
> scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual
gets so
> high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great
living so
> they eventually stop selling and just work part time
maintaining their
> base and lifestyle.
>
> At least that is what has happened every time I have tried
it. So I
> would either limit residual to some period of months and
only extend it
> if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.
>
> None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will
> produce commission report for you.
>
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes
> mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
> >> wrote:
>
> I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and
then 5%
> ongoing.
>
> I figure the more they help the company grow they should
be making
> more too.
>
> A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
> Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for 
them

> considering what they are bringing in.
>
>> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
>> mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>>  We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or
sometimes 2x the
>> monthly for that sale. We give it to them again on a
renewal. We
>> usually have term contracts so as to ensure the revenue
stream
>> over time since we're paying the commission up front.
We haven't
>> done a recurring commission yet.
>> 
>>
>> *Jesse DuPont*
>>
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] snmp

[chuck]

I have PRTG running right now.  Just don’t want to leave my desktop running.  

From: Eric Muehleisen 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 3:18 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] snmp

PRTG is pig simple and lets you monitor 10 free sensors. Can be interface 
monitoring or custom OID. Whatever as long as it's 10 or less.

Someone also mentioned STG. By far the easiest but only supports v1.


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 3:50 PM  wrote:

  What is the preferred snmp windows monitoring tool?
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Re: [AFMUG] snmp

[chuck]

That is what I was considering.  That presumes I am smart enough to set it up.  

From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 3:09 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] snmp

Or were you talking more of historical monitoring.  Then just run MRTG on your 
box with a simple webserver.  


On 9/21/2020 4:03 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

  Going to sound cheesy, but I've been using this for years.  

  stg  from leonidvm.chat.ru  Hasn't been updated in 20 years.  Only works with 
SNMPv1.  But it works, and just works.  Any OID just turn it on, say how often 
to poll and it will graph it.  




  On 9/21/2020 3:56 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Monitoring bandwidth on ethernet interfaces.
Also I would like to load it on something where I can get in and take a 
look but I don’t have to have it running on my desk top.
So thinking of perhaps some kind of raspberry PI device but would like to 
see a gui with the graphs.  

From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 2:51 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] snmp

To do what?  Single reads, or continuous monitoring?  Read/write?


On 9/21/2020 3:49 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  What is the preferred snmp windows monitoring tool?

   




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Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Matt Hoppes]

Sounds like Dilbert. This is also why we work in an open office. 

> On Sep 21, 2020, at 6:31 PM, Robert Andrews  wrote:
> 
> Divorcing the sales from the support can lead to sales promising more than 
> support can deliver...
> 
>> On 09/21/2020 02:24 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> Ding ding ding!!!  It’s not just the sale but the service after the sale
 On Sep 21, 2020, at 5:20 PM, Lewis Bergman  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Accidentally sent. At any rate Enterprise pays a good base plus commission 
>>> to a salesperson dedicated to bringing in new business. After the contract 
>>> signing they bring in your account manager for a soft handoff and that 
>>> person takes it home from there. They do a great job of it. So much so I 
>>> asked them how they were compensated. It breaks down like this:
>>> 
>>> New customer sales person gets a good base and if I remember correctly, 15% 
>>> commission. The account manager gets a 5% of that original.sale. Any new 
>>> business into that account generates a recurring revenue of 3% for the new 
>>> customer rep and 5% for the account manager. It created a real team 
>>> approach I have always found their approach to be a great balance and an 
>>> example of how to keep that person with what it takes to bring in new 
>>> customers doing just that and make sure they are rewarded for the long term.
>>> 
>>> The salesperson who can win new accounts is many times, not the best person 
>>> to make sure a customer stays happy.
>>> 
 On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:13 PM Lewis Bergman >>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>>I don't think I mentioned anything about residential or business.
>>>I would assume you would only want/need a sales person for
>>>business accounts. Mass media can handle the residential subs. 10%
>>>of gross is a pretty huge number, but hey, it's your call of
>>>course. The trouble comes when they do everything you asked them
>>>to, and you can't afford them. Then what.
>>> 
>>>I would just be really cautious about residuals and
>>>definitely have an expiration less than that of the contract. But
>>>maybe you will have a better experience than all the salespeople
>>>that have worked for me. You can get someone to maintain $2M worth
>>>of accounts for a lot less than $200,000.In fact, you can likely
>>>get 3 people. The issue is once they start making $200k a year
>>>from residual, will they work just as hard to bring you another
>>>$2M or just sit back and coast.
>>> 
>>>Enterprise Fleet has an interesting approach where they pay the
>>>salesperson
>>> 
>>>On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:41 AM Matt Hoppes
>>>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>This is for business.   Not residential.
>>> 
On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>>> I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual,
>>>but maybe I
>>>> am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for
>>>that always
>>>> scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual
>>>gets so
>>>> high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great
>>>living so
>>>> they eventually stop selling and just work part time
>>>maintaining their
>>>> base and lifestyle.
>>>>
>>>> At least that is what has happened every time I have tried
>>>it. So I
>>>> would either limit residual to some period of months and
>>>only extend it
>>>> if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.
>>>>
>>>> None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will
>>>> produce commission report for you.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and
>>>then 5%
>>>> ongoing.
>>>>
>>>> I figure the more they help the company grow they should
>>>be making
>>>> more too.
>>>>
>>>> A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
>>>> Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for them
>>>> considering what they are bringing in.
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or
>>>sometimes 2x the
>>>>> monthly for that sale. We give it to them again on a
>>>renewal. We
>>>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Robert Andrews]

Divorcing the sales from the support can lead to sales promising more 
than support can deliver...


On 09/21/2020 02:24 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Ding ding ding!!!  It’s not just the sale but the service after the sale

On Sep 21, 2020, at 5:20 PM, Lewis Bergman  
wrote:



Accidentally sent. At any rate Enterprise pays a good base plus 
commission to a salesperson dedicated to bringing in new business. 
After the contract signing they bring in your account manager for a 
soft handoff and that person takes it home from there. They do a great 
job of it. So much so I asked them how they were compensated. It 
breaks down like this:


New customer sales person gets a good base and if I remember 
correctly, 15% commission. The account manager gets a 5% of that 
original.sale. Any new business into that account generates a 
recurring revenue of 3% for the new customer rep and 5% for the 
account manager. It created a real team approach I have always found 
their approach to be a great balance and an example of how to keep 
that person with what it takes to bring in new customers doing just 
that and make sure they are rewarded for the long term.


The salesperson who can win new accounts is many times, not the best 
person to make sure a customer stays happy.


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:13 PM Lewis Bergman > wrote:


I don't think I mentioned anything about residential or business.
I would assume you would only want/need a sales person for
business accounts. Mass media can handle the residential subs. 10%
of gross is a pretty huge number, but hey, it's your call of
course. The trouble comes when they do everything you asked them
to, and you can't afford them. Then what.

I would just be really cautious about residuals and
definitely have an expiration less than that of the contract. But
maybe you will have a better experience than all the salespeople
that have worked for me. You can get someone to maintain $2M worth
of accounts for a lot less than $200,000.In fact, you can likely
get 3 people. The issue is once they start making $200k a year
from residual, will they work just as hard to bring you another
$2M or just sit back and coast.

Enterprise Fleet has an interesting approach where they pay the
salesperson

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:41 AM Matt Hoppes
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:

This is for business.   Not residential.

On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual,
but maybe I
> am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for
that always
> scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual
gets so
> high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great
living so
> they eventually stop selling and just work part time
maintaining their
> base and lifestyle.
>
> At least that is what has happened every time I have tried
it. So I
> would either limit residual to some period of months and
only extend it
> if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.
>
> None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will
> produce commission report for you.
>
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes
> mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
> >> wrote:
>
> I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and
then 5%
> ongoing.
>
> I figure the more they help the company grow they should
be making
> more too.
>
> A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
> Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for them
> considering what they are bringing in.
>
>> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
>> mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>>  We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or
sometimes 2x the
>> monthly for that sale. We give it to them again on a
renewal. We
>> usually have term contracts so as to ensure the revenue
stream
>> over time since we're paying the commission up front.
We haven't
>> done a recurring commission yet.
>> 
>>
>> *Jesse DuPont*
>>
>> Owner / Network Architect
>> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net

>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Robert Andrews]

 Prist is ( it's still around ) a fuel de-icer.  Not sure how that 
compares to the process Sta-BIL does.


On 09/21/2020 12:38 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
There used to be a product for airplanes.  Prist or something like that. 
Supposedly the best.  But that was back in the 1970s...


-Original Message- From: Larry Smith
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 1:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.



--
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Robert Andrews]

I heart Sta-BIL...  Ski boat, untouched for 5 years.  Full tank, Sta-BIL 
in a little extra proportion.  Connected new battery, Jumped in, turned 
key, started.  That doesn't happen with untreated gas...


On 09/21/2020 12:36 PM, Larry Smith wrote:

I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Matt Hoppes]

So regarding them being motivated part we also have a KPI of foreclosed 
commercial sales a month and there is the expectation that if it falls below 
that for three months in a row their job is in jeopardy. With the exception of 
maybe December and January

> On Sep 21, 2020, at 5:30 PM, Lewis Bergman  wrote:
> 
> 
> And again, the man or woman that has the personality to go get $2 mil worth 
> of sales is very often not going to be the person to give your customers the 
> service after the sale you would like them to or that which the customer 
> wants. But again, hope you're right. And again, to the original question, all 
> the good software I know about handles commission reports and I have run it 
> all with spreadsheets before and it is a royal PITA.
> 
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:24 PM Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
>> Ding ding ding!!!  It’s not just the sale but the service after the sale
>> 
 On Sep 21, 2020, at 5:20 PM, Lewis Bergman  wrote:
 
>>> 
>>> Accidentally sent. At any rate Enterprise pays a good base plus commission 
>>> to a salesperson dedicated to bringing in new business. After the contract 
>>> signing they bring in your account manager for a soft handoff and that 
>>> person takes it home from there. They do a great job of it. So much so I 
>>> asked them how they were compensated. It breaks down like this:
>>> 
>>> New customer sales person gets a good base and if I remember correctly, 15% 
>>> commission. The account manager gets a 5% of that original.sale. Any new 
>>> business into that account generates a recurring revenue of 3% for the new 
>>> customer rep and 5% for the account manager. It created a real team 
>>> approach I have always found their approach to be a great balance and an 
>>> example of how to keep that person with what it takes to bring in new 
>>> customers doing just that and make sure they are rewarded for the long term.
>>> 
>>> The salesperson who can win new accounts is many times, not the best person 
>>> to make sure a customer stays happy.
>>> 
 On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:13 PM Lewis Bergman  
 wrote:
 I don't think I mentioned anything about residential or business. I would 
 assume you would only want/need a sales person for business accounts. Mass 
 media can handle the residential subs. 10% of gross is a pretty huge 
 number, but hey, it's your call of course. The trouble comes when they do 
 everything you asked them to, and you can't afford them. Then what.
 
 I would just be really cautious about residuals and definitely have an 
 expiration less than that of the contract. But maybe you will have a 
 better experience than all the salespeople that have worked for me. You 
 can get someone to maintain $2M worth of accounts for a lot less than 
 $200,000.In fact, you can likely get 3 people. The issue is once they 
 start making $200k a year from residual, will they work just as hard to 
 bring you another $2M or just sit back and coast.
 
 Enterprise Fleet has an interesting approach where they pay the 
 salesperson 
 
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:41 AM Matt Hoppes 
>  wrote:
> This is for business.   Not residential.
> 
> On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> > I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe I 
> > am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that always 
> > scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual gets so 
> > high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great living so 
> > they eventually stop selling and just work part time maintaining their 
> > base and lifestyle.
> > 
> > At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I 
> > would either limit residual to some period of months and only extend it 
> > if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.
> > 
> > None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will 
> > produce commission report for you.
> > 
> > On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes 
> >  > > wrote:
> > 
> > I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5%
> > ongoing.
> > 
> > I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making
> > more too.
> > 
> > A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
> > Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for them
> > considering what they are bringing in.
> > 
> >> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
> >>  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>  We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the
> >> monthly for that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We
> >> usually have term contracts so as to ensure the revenue 

Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Lewis Bergman]

And again, the man or woman that has the personality to go get $2 mil worth
of sales is very often not going to be the person to give your customers
the service after the sale you would like them to or that which the
customer wants. But again, hope you're right. And again, to the original
question, all the good software I know about handles commission reports and
I have run it all with spreadsheets before and it is a royal PITA.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:24 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Ding ding ding!!!  It’s not just the sale but the service after the sale
>
> On Sep 21, 2020, at 5:20 PM, Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Accidentally sent. At any rate Enterprise pays a good base plus commission
> to a salesperson dedicated to bringing in new business. After the contract
> signing they bring in your account manager for a soft handoff and that
> person takes it home from there. They do a great job of it. So much so I
> asked them how they were compensated. It breaks down like this:
>
> New customer sales person gets a good base and if I remember correctly,
> 15% commission. The account manager gets a 5% of that original.sale. Any
> new business into that account generates a recurring revenue of 3% for the
> new customer rep and 5% for the account manager. It created a real team
> approach I have always found their approach to be a great balance and an
> example of how to keep that person with what it takes to bring in new
> customers doing just that and make sure they are rewarded for the long term.
>
> The salesperson who can win new accounts is many times, not the best
> person to make sure a customer stays happy.
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:13 PM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> I don't think I mentioned anything about residential or business. I would
>> assume you would only want/need a sales person for business accounts. Mass
>> media can handle the residential subs. 10% of gross is a pretty huge
>> number, but hey, it's your call of course. The trouble comes when they do
>> everything you asked them to, and you can't afford them. Then what.
>>
>> I would just be really cautious about residuals and definitely have an
>> expiration less than that of the contract. But maybe you will have a better
>> experience than all the salespeople that have worked for me. You can get
>> someone to maintain $2M worth of accounts for a lot less than $200,000.In
>> fact, you can likely get 3 people. The issue is once they start making
>> $200k a year from residual, will they work just as hard to bring you
>> another $2M or just sit back and coast.
>>
>> Enterprise Fleet has an interesting approach where they pay the
>> salesperson
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:41 AM Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> This is for business.   Not residential.
>>>
>>> On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>> > I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe I
>>> > am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that always
>>> > scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual gets so
>>> > high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great living so
>>> > they eventually stop selling and just work part time maintaining their
>>> > base and lifestyle.
>>> >
>>> > At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I
>>> > would either limit residual to some period of months and only extend
>>> it
>>> > if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.
>>> >
>>> > None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will
>>> > produce commission report for you.
>>> >
>>> > On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes
>>> > >> > > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5%
>>> > ongoing.
>>> >
>>> > I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making
>>> > more too.
>>> >
>>> > A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
>>> > Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for them
>>> > considering what they are bringing in.
>>> >
>>> >> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
>>> >> >> >> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>  We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the
>>> >> monthly for that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We
>>> >> usually have term contracts so as to ensure the revenue stream
>>> >> over time since we're paying the commission up front. We haven't
>>> >> done a recurring commission yet.
>>> >> 
>>> >>
>>> >> *Jesse DuPont*
>>> >>
>>> >> Owner / Network Architect
>>> >> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
>>> >> 
>>> >> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
>>> >> Like us! facebook.com/ >> >celeritynetworksllc
>>> >>
>>> >> Like 

Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Lewis Bergman]

Well, basically because they sold $2 million in business in no way means
you made $2 million. I have no idea what your expense structure looks like.
If you operate a great business you likely have a 25% margin. If that
is the case, you are paying that person 40% of your net profit. More than
that by the time you figure the taxes and so forth.

At any rate, not that it matters. I think I misread your original post and
you are thinking of 5%, which seems super fair for both of you. I am
absolutely not against paying people well to do good work. I am
merely pointing out what I have seen having done exactly what you are
talking about doing. Not that all people work the same way and would react
to the exact same compensation lan the same, but my bet is they will.

if you pay them enough to not be motivated, they will stop being motivated.
This is why I say your residual should expire at awesome point so that to
keep making great money, they have to keep doing great work. That is all I
am saying. But hey, maybe I am wrong.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:17 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Why would I not be able to pay them if they are bringing in $2 million a
> year I should easily be able to pay them that amount of commission and why
> would I forget that they are the reason that we are where we are?
>
> I have always had the stance that if an employee works hard and is the
> reason that the company has succeeded and they should be rewarded.
>
> I don’t see any reason why I shouldn’t pay the person who is literally
> single-handedly responsible for bringing in that much business as well. And
> hopefully they will continue to bring in another 2 million and they can be
> making 400,000 a year.
>
> As someone else stated that type of person is very valuable and you don’t
> want them to leave to go somewhere else.
>
> Plus again why should I make $2 million while the person who is
> single-handedly responsible for that money coming in have to worry about
> where their next paycheck is coming from.
>
> We’ve done projects where we have brought in $200,000 in the project and
> every single person who is involved in the project got paid extremely well.
> Yes I own the business but if you’re there in the trenches with me working
> on a project that pays that much I’m going to give you some of the profits.
>
> On Sep 21, 2020, at 5:13 PM, Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
> 
> I don't think I mentioned anything about residential or business. I would
> assume you would only want/need a sales person for business accounts. Mass
> media can handle the residential subs. 10% of gross is a pretty huge
> number, but hey, it's your call of course. The trouble comes when they do
> everything you asked them to, and you can't afford them. Then what.
>
> I would just be really cautious about residuals and definitely have an
> expiration less than that of the contract. But maybe you will have a better
> experience than all the salespeople that have worked for me. You can get
> someone to maintain $2M worth of accounts for a lot less than $200,000.In
> fact, you can likely get 3 people. The issue is once they start making
> $200k a year from residual, will they work just as hard to bring you
> another $2M or just sit back and coast.
>
> Enterprise Fleet has an interesting approach where they pay the
> salesperson
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:41 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> This is for business.   Not residential.
>>
>> On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>> > I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe I
>> > am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that always
>> > scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual gets so
>> > high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great living so
>> > they eventually stop selling and just work part time maintaining their
>> > base and lifestyle.
>> >
>> > At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I
>> > would either limit residual to some period of months and only extend it
>> > if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.
>> >
>> > None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will
>> > produce commission report for you.
>> >
>> > On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes
>> > > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5%
>> > ongoing.
>> >
>> > I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making
>> > more too.
>> >
>> > A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
>> > Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for them
>> > considering what they are bringing in.
>> >
>> >> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
>> >> > >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>  We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the

Re: [AFMUG] snmp

[Adam Moffett]

Oh I suppose "The Dude" needs an honorable mention.

The client runs on Windows, but the server/monitoring agent runs on 
RouterOS.  You can run it on certain routerboards or an x86 Virtual 
Machine.  So depending on what you mean by "windows monitoring tool" 
this might count.


It does a pretty good job for being free.  Monitoring the volume of 
traffic on an interface is easy with The Dude, but charting other stuff 
can be very tedious to set up.  You add each OID you want to measure as 
a "data source" and then create a chart and add the data sources to the 
chart.  If you want to chart RSSI on 100 different devices that means 
you have to create 100 different data sources.so that's where the 
tedium happens.



On 9/21/2020 4:49 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

What is the preferred snmp windows monitoring tool?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Matt Hoppes]

Ding ding ding!!!  It’s not just the sale but the service after the sale

> On Sep 21, 2020, at 5:20 PM, Lewis Bergman  wrote:
> 
> 
> Accidentally sent. At any rate Enterprise pays a good base plus commission to 
> a salesperson dedicated to bringing in new business. After the contract 
> signing they bring in your account manager for a soft handoff and that person 
> takes it home from there. They do a great job of it. So much so I asked them 
> how they were compensated. It breaks down like this:
> 
> New customer sales person gets a good base and if I remember correctly, 15% 
> commission. The account manager gets a 5% of that original.sale. Any new 
> business into that account generates a recurring revenue of 3% for the new 
> customer rep and 5% for the account manager. It created a real team approach 
> I have always found their approach to be a great balance and an example of 
> how to keep that person with what it takes to bring in new customers doing 
> just that and make sure they are rewarded for the long term.
> 
> The salesperson who can win new accounts is many times, not the best person 
> to make sure a customer stays happy.
> 
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:13 PM Lewis Bergman  
>> wrote:
>> I don't think I mentioned anything about residential or business. I would 
>> assume you would only want/need a sales person for business accounts. Mass 
>> media can handle the residential subs. 10% of gross is a pretty huge number, 
>> but hey, it's your call of course. The trouble comes when they do everything 
>> you asked them to, and you can't afford them. Then what.
>> 
>> I would just be really cautious about residuals and definitely have an 
>> expiration less than that of the contract. But maybe you will have a better 
>> experience than all the salespeople that have worked for me. You can get 
>> someone to maintain $2M worth of accounts for a lot less than $200,000.In 
>> fact, you can likely get 3 people. The issue is once they start making $200k 
>> a year from residual, will they work just as hard to bring you another $2M 
>> or just sit back and coast.
>> 
>> Enterprise Fleet has an interesting approach where they pay the salesperson 
>> 
>>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:41 AM Matt Hoppes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> This is for business.   Not residential.
>>> 
>>> On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>> > I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe I 
>>> > am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that always 
>>> > scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual gets so 
>>> > high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great living so 
>>> > they eventually stop selling and just work part time maintaining their 
>>> > base and lifestyle.
>>> > 
>>> > At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I 
>>> > would either limit residual to some period of months and only extend it 
>>> > if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.
>>> > 
>>> > None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will 
>>> > produce commission report for you.
>>> > 
>>> > On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes 
>>> > >> > > wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5%
>>> > ongoing.
>>> > 
>>> > I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making
>>> > more too.
>>> > 
>>> > A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
>>> > Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for them
>>> > considering what they are bringing in.
>>> > 
>>> >> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
>>> >> >> >> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>  We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the
>>> >> monthly for that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We
>>> >> usually have term contracts so as to ensure the revenue stream
>>> >> over time since we're paying the commission up front. We haven't
>>> >> done a recurring commission yet.
>>> >> 
>>> >>
>>> >> *Jesse DuPont*
>>> >>
>>> >> Owner / Network Architect
>>> >> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
>>> >> 
>>> >> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
>>> >> Like us! facebook.com/ celeritynetworksllc
>>> >>
>>> >> Like us! facebook.com/ celeritybroadband
>>> >>
>>> >> 
>>> >>
>>> >> On 9/20/20 8:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> >>> Does anyone have an excel sheet or other tracking method for a 
>>> >>> commissioned sales person they’d want to share, or share how you do it?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> We are hiring our first outside sales person. She has a base 
>>> >>> salary, but then gets bonuses based on closed sales, as well as 
>>> >>> recurring commission for accounts that stay.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Trying to 

Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Lewis Bergman]

Accidentally sent. At any rate Enterprise pays a good base plus commission
to a salesperson dedicated to bringing in new business. After the contract
signing they bring in your account manager for a soft handoff and that
person takes it home from there. They do a great job of it. So much so I
asked them how they were compensated. It breaks down like this:

New customer sales person gets a good base and if I remember correctly, 15%
commission. The account manager gets a 5% of that original.sale. Any new
business into that account generates a recurring revenue of 3% for the new
customer rep and 5% for the account manager. It created a real team
approach I have always found their approach to be a great balance and an
example of how to keep that person with what it takes to bring in new
customers doing just that and make sure they are rewarded for the long term.

The salesperson who can win new accounts is many times, not the best person
to make sure a customer stays happy.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:13 PM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> I don't think I mentioned anything about residential or business. I would
> assume you would only want/need a sales person for business accounts. Mass
> media can handle the residential subs. 10% of gross is a pretty huge
> number, but hey, it's your call of course. The trouble comes when they do
> everything you asked them to, and you can't afford them. Then what.
>
> I would just be really cautious about residuals and definitely have an
> expiration less than that of the contract. But maybe you will have a better
> experience than all the salespeople that have worked for me. You can get
> someone to maintain $2M worth of accounts for a lot less than $200,000.In
> fact, you can likely get 3 people. The issue is once they start making
> $200k a year from residual, will they work just as hard to bring you
> another $2M or just sit back and coast.
>
> Enterprise Fleet has an interesting approach where they pay the
> salesperson
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:41 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> This is for business.   Not residential.
>>
>> On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>> > I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe I
>> > am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that always
>> > scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual gets so
>> > high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great living so
>> > they eventually stop selling and just work part time maintaining their
>> > base and lifestyle.
>> >
>> > At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I
>> > would either limit residual to some period of months and only extend it
>> > if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.
>> >
>> > None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will
>> > produce commission report for you.
>> >
>> > On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes
>> > > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5%
>> > ongoing.
>> >
>> > I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making
>> > more too.
>> >
>> > A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
>> > Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for them
>> > considering what they are bringing in.
>> >
>> >> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
>> >> > >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>  We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the
>> >> monthly for that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We
>> >> usually have term contracts so as to ensure the revenue stream
>> >> over time since we're paying the commission up front. We haven't
>> >> done a recurring commission yet.
>> >> 
>> >>
>> >> *Jesse DuPont*
>> >>
>> >> Owner / Network Architect
>> >> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
>> >> 
>> >> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
>> >> Like us! facebook.com/ > >celeritynetworksllc
>> >>
>> >> Like us! facebook.com/ celeritybroadband
>> >>
>> >> 
>> >>
>> >> On 9/20/20 8:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> >>> Does anyone have an excel sheet or other tracking method for a
>> commissioned sales person they’d want to share, or share how you do it?
>> >>>
>> >>> We are hiring our first outside sales person. She has a base
>> salary, but then gets bonuses based on closed sales, as well as recurring
>> commission for accounts that stay.
>> >>>
>> >>> Trying to figure out the best way to track this.
>> >>
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com 
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Lewis Bergman
>> > 325-439-0533 Cell
>> >
>>
>
>
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Ken Hohhof]

The nearest Casey’s used to have 87 and 89 octane both with 10% ethanol, plus 
diesel.  So I have to guy gas for the Subaru at the BP in the next town.

 

Then the Casey’s switched to 87 ethanol and 91 no ethanol.  Which was great 
because I would buy gas for the generators, lawnmowers, snowblowers, etc.

 

Now they’ve switched to 87 and 93, no longer have gas without ethanol.  So 
theoretically I can fill up the Subaru, but I’m back to looking for a source of 
gas without ethanol.  It’s farming country so I can’t badmouth ethanol.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 3:09 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

 

back when gas wasn't cut with corn and it didn't go bad anyway =) all of the 
stabilization products worked great

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:39 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

There used to be a product for airplanes.  Prist or something like that. 
Supposedly the best.  But that was back in the 1970s...

-Original Message- 
From: Larry Smith
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 1:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net  

On Mon September 21 2020 13:20, Adam Moffett wrote:
> Yeahengine maintenance on a generator is skipped more often than
> not.  Go ahead and pay extra for the synthetic oil because you have to
> admit to yourself that you're not going to remember to change it.  Also
> after the outage just let it run until the tank is empty because
> realistically you aren't going to drain and replace the fuel either.
>
> On 9/21/2020 2:14 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > Generators often sit with stale fuel in them, get overdue for oil
> > changes, etc.

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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 


-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] snmp

[Eric Muehleisen]

PRTG is pig simple and lets you monitor 10 free sensors. Can be interface
monitoring or custom OID. Whatever as long as it's 10 or less.

Someone also mentioned STG. By far the easiest but only supports v1.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 3:50 PM  wrote:

> What is the preferred snmp windows monitoring tool?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] snmp

[Steve Jones]

v7 is antiquated so i dont know if the newer versions run on windows, but
te last i checked, an equivalent license to our v7 was around 14k, but
thats unlimited devices on a perpetual license

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:16 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> How much does that cost? Ballpark?
> On 9/21/2020 5:12 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> snmpc v7
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:11 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> Or were you talking more of historical monitoring.  Then just run MRTG on
>> your box with a simple webserver.
>>
>> On 9/21/2020 4:03 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>>
>> Going to sound cheesy, but I've been using this for years.
>>
>> stg  from leonidvm.chat.ru  Hasn't been updated in 20 years.  Only works
>> with SNMPv1.  But it works, and just works.  Any OID just turn it on, say
>> how often to poll and it will graph it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/21/2020 3:56 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> Monitoring bandwidth on ethernet interfaces.
>> Also I would like to load it on something where I can get in and take a
>> look but I don’t have to have it running on my desk top.
>> So thinking of perhaps some kind of raspberry PI device but would like to
>> see a gui with the graphs.
>>
>> *From:* Nate Burke
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 2:51 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] snmp
>>
>> To do what?  Single reads, or continuous monitoring?  Read/write?
>>
>> On 9/21/2020 3:49 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> What is the preferred snmp windows monitoring tool?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Matt Hoppes]

Why would I not be able to pay them if they are bringing in $2 million a year I 
should easily be able to pay them that amount of commission and why would I 
forget that they are the reason that we are where we are?

I have always had the stance that if an employee works hard and is the reason 
that the company has succeeded and they should be rewarded.

I don’t see any reason why I shouldn’t pay the person who is literally 
single-handedly responsible for bringing in that much business as well. And 
hopefully they will continue to bring in another 2 million and they can be 
making 400,000 a year.

As someone else stated that type of person is very valuable and you don’t want 
them to leave to go somewhere else.

Plus again why should I make $2 million while the person who is single-handedly 
responsible for that money coming in have to worry about where their next 
paycheck is coming from.

We’ve done projects where we have brought in $200,000 in the project and every 
single person who is involved in the project got paid extremely well. Yes I own 
the business but if you’re there in the trenches with me working on a project 
that pays that much I’m going to give you some of the profits.

> On Sep 21, 2020, at 5:13 PM, Lewis Bergman  wrote:
> 
> 
> I don't think I mentioned anything about residential or business. I would 
> assume you would only want/need a sales person for business accounts. Mass 
> media can handle the residential subs. 10% of gross is a pretty huge number, 
> but hey, it's your call of course. The trouble comes when they do everything 
> you asked them to, and you can't afford them. Then what.
> 
> I would just be really cautious about residuals and definitely have an 
> expiration less than that of the contract. But maybe you will have a better 
> experience than all the salespeople that have worked for me. You can get 
> someone to maintain $2M worth of accounts for a lot less than $200,000.In 
> fact, you can likely get 3 people. The issue is once they start making $200k 
> a year from residual, will they work just as hard to bring you another $2M or 
> just sit back and coast.
> 
> Enterprise Fleet has an interesting approach where they pay the salesperson 
> 
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:41 AM Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
>> This is for business.   Not residential.
>> 
>> On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>> > I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe I 
>> > am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that always 
>> > scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual gets so 
>> > high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great living so 
>> > they eventually stop selling and just work part time maintaining their 
>> > base and lifestyle.
>> > 
>> > At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I 
>> > would either limit residual to some period of months and only extend it 
>> > if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.
>> > 
>> > None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will 
>> > produce commission report for you.
>> > 
>> > On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes 
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > 
>> > I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5%
>> > ongoing.
>> > 
>> > I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making
>> > more too.
>> > 
>> > A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
>> > Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for them
>> > considering what they are bringing in.
>> > 
>> >> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
>> >> > >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>  We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the
>> >> monthly for that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We
>> >> usually have term contracts so as to ensure the revenue stream
>> >> over time since we're paying the commission up front. We haven't
>> >> done a recurring commission yet.
>> >> 
>> >>
>> >> *Jesse DuPont*
>> >>
>> >> Owner / Network Architect
>> >> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
>> >> 
>> >> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
>> >> Like us! facebook.com/ celeritynetworksllc
>> >>
>> >> Like us! facebook.com/ celeritybroadband
>> >>
>> >> 
>> >>
>> >> On 9/20/20 8:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> >>> Does anyone have an excel sheet or other tracking method for a 
>> >>> commissioned sales person they’d want to share, or share how you do it?
>> >>>
>> >>> We are hiring our first outside sales person. She has a base salary, 
>> >>> but then gets bonuses based on closed sales, as well as recurring 
>> >>> commission for accounts that stay.
>> >>>
>> >>> Trying to figure out the best way to track this.

Re: [AFMUG] snmp

[Adam Moffett]

For Windows the only thing I'm aware of is Solar Winds.


On 9/21/2020 4:56 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Monitoring bandwidth on ethernet interfaces.
Also I would like to load it on something where I can get in and take 
a look but I don’t have to have it running on my desk top.
So thinking of perhaps some kind of raspberry PI device but would like 
to see a gui with the graphs.

*From:* Nate Burke
*Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 2:51 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] snmp
To do what?  Single reads, or continuous monitoring?  Read/write?

On 9/21/2020 3:49 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

What is the preferred snmp windows monitoring tool?





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Re: [AFMUG] snmp

[Adam Moffett]

How much does that cost? Ballpark?

On 9/21/2020 5:12 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

snmpc v7

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:11 PM Nate Burke > wrote:


Or were you talking more of historical monitoring.  Then just run
MRTG on your box with a simple webserver.

On 9/21/2020 4:03 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

Going to sound cheesy, but I've been using this for years.

stg  from leonidvm.chat.ru  Hasn't been
updated in 20 years.  Only works with SNMPv1. But it works, and
just works.  Any OID just turn it on, say how often to poll and
it will graph it.



On 9/21/2020 3:56 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com  wrote:

Monitoring bandwidth on ethernet interfaces.
Also I would like to load it on something where I can get in and
take a look but I don’t have to have it running on my desk top.
So thinking of perhaps some kind of raspberry PI device but
would like to see a gui with the graphs.
*From:* Nate Burke
*Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 2:51 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] snmp
To do what?  Single reads, or continuous monitoring? Read/write?

On 9/21/2020 3:49 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com 
wrote:

What is the preferred snmp windows monitoring tool?





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Re: [AFMUG] snmp

[Josh Luthman]

Just run Powercode...

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 5:14 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> snmpc v7
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:11 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> Or were you talking more of historical monitoring.  Then just run MRTG on
>> your box with a simple webserver.
>>
>> On 9/21/2020 4:03 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>>
>> Going to sound cheesy, but I've been using this for years.
>>
>> stg  from leonidvm.chat.ru  Hasn't been updated in 20 years.  Only works
>> with SNMPv1.  But it works, and just works.  Any OID just turn it on, say
>> how often to poll and it will graph it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/21/2020 3:56 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> Monitoring bandwidth on ethernet interfaces.
>> Also I would like to load it on something where I can get in and take a
>> look but I don’t have to have it running on my desk top.
>> So thinking of perhaps some kind of raspberry PI device but would like to
>> see a gui with the graphs.
>>
>> *From:* Nate Burke
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 2:51 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] snmp
>>
>> To do what?  Single reads, or continuous monitoring?  Read/write?
>>
>> On 9/21/2020 3:49 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> What is the preferred snmp windows monitoring tool?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Lewis Bergman]

I don't think I mentioned anything about residential or business. I would
assume you would only want/need a sales person for business accounts. Mass
media can handle the residential subs. 10% of gross is a pretty huge
number, but hey, it's your call of course. The trouble comes when they do
everything you asked them to, and you can't afford them. Then what.

I would just be really cautious about residuals and definitely have an
expiration less than that of the contract. But maybe you will have a better
experience than all the salespeople that have worked for me. You can get
someone to maintain $2M worth of accounts for a lot less than $200,000.In
fact, you can likely get 3 people. The issue is once they start making
$200k a year from residual, will they work just as hard to bring you
another $2M or just sit back and coast.

Enterprise Fleet has an interesting approach where they pay the salesperson

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:41 AM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> This is for business.   Not residential.
>
> On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> > I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe I
> > am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that always
> > scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual gets so
> > high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great living so
> > they eventually stop selling and just work part time maintaining their
> > base and lifestyle.
> >
> > At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I
> > would either limit residual to some period of months and only extend it
> > if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.
> >
> > None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will
> > produce commission report for you.
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes
> >  > > wrote:
> >
> > I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5%
> > ongoing.
> >
> > I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making
> > more too.
> >
> > A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
> > Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for them
> > considering what they are bringing in.
> >
> >> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
> >>  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>  We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the
> >> monthly for that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We
> >> usually have term contracts so as to ensure the revenue stream
> >> over time since we're paying the commission up front. We haven't
> >> done a recurring commission yet.
> >> 
> >>
> >> *Jesse DuPont*
> >>
> >> Owner / Network Architect
> >> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> >> 
> >> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
> >> Like us! facebook.com/  >celeritynetworksllc
> >>
> >> Like us! facebook.com/ celeritybroadband
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >> On 9/20/20 8:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> >>> Does anyone have an excel sheet or other tracking method for a
> commissioned sales person they’d want to share, or share how you do it?
> >>>
> >>> We are hiring our first outside sales person. She has a base
> salary, but then gets bonuses based on closed sales, as well as recurring
> commission for accounts that stay.
> >>>
> >>> Trying to figure out the best way to track this.
> >>
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com 
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lewis Bergman
> > 325-439-0533 Cell
> >
>


-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] snmp

[Steve Jones]

snmpc v7

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:11 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Or were you talking more of historical monitoring.  Then just run MRTG on
> your box with a simple webserver.
>
> On 9/21/2020 4:03 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>
> Going to sound cheesy, but I've been using this for years.
>
> stg  from leonidvm.chat.ru  Hasn't been updated in 20 years.  Only works
> with SNMPv1.  But it works, and just works.  Any OID just turn it on, say
> how often to poll and it will graph it.
>
>
>
> On 9/21/2020 3:56 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Monitoring bandwidth on ethernet interfaces.
> Also I would like to load it on something where I can get in and take a
> look but I don’t have to have it running on my desk top.
> So thinking of perhaps some kind of raspberry PI device but would like to
> see a gui with the graphs.
>
> *From:* Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 2:51 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] snmp
>
> To do what?  Single reads, or continuous monitoring?  Read/write?
>
> On 9/21/2020 3:49 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> What is the preferred snmp windows monitoring tool?
>
>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] snmp

[Nate Burke]

Or were you talking more of historical monitoring.  Then just run MRTG 
on your box with a simple webserver.


On 9/21/2020 4:03 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

Going to sound cheesy, but I've been using this for years.

stg  from leonidvm.chat.ru  Hasn't been updated in 20 years.  Only 
works with SNMPv1.  But it works, and just works.  Any OID just turn 
it on, say how often to poll and it will graph it.




On 9/21/2020 3:56 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Monitoring bandwidth on ethernet interfaces.
Also I would like to load it on something where I can get in and take 
a look but I don’t have to have it running on my desk top.
So thinking of perhaps some kind of raspberry PI device but would 
like to see a gui with the graphs.

*From:* Nate Burke
*Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 2:51 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] snmp
To do what?  Single reads, or continuous monitoring? Read/write?

On 9/21/2020 3:49 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

What is the preferred snmp windows monitoring tool?





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Re: [AFMUG] snmp

[Nate Burke]

Going to sound cheesy, but I've been using this for years.

stg  from leonidvm.chat.ru  Hasn't been updated in 20 years.  Only works 
with SNMPv1.  But it works, and just works.  Any OID just turn it on, 
say how often to poll and it will graph it.




On 9/21/2020 3:56 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Monitoring bandwidth on ethernet interfaces.
Also I would like to load it on something where I can get in and take 
a look but I don’t have to have it running on my desk top.
So thinking of perhaps some kind of raspberry PI device but would like 
to see a gui with the graphs.

*From:* Nate Burke
*Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 2:51 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] snmp
To do what?  Single reads, or continuous monitoring?  Read/write?

On 9/21/2020 3:49 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

What is the preferred snmp windows monitoring tool?





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[AFMUG] snmp

[chuck]

What is the preferred snmp windows monitoring tool?-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Probably separate, but you'd have to look. If there is a separate
  choke control, then the throttle is probably set by a governor.


bp

On 9/21/2020 1:24 PM, Josh Luthman
  wrote:


  
  There's no throttle, I guess it's tied to choke? 
Not really my area of knowledge at all...

  

  
  
  Josh Luthman
  24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
  


  
  
  
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 1:25
  PM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:


  Does the choke also
open the throttle?   That’s common on car engines, no idea
if it does on a generator.   That little bit of choke might
be kicking the speed up just enough to make the UPS happy.


Mark
  

  On Sep 21, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:
  
  
So you're thinking the 110v is
  probably its output and not relevant?  Carb issue
  could be causing it to bog down like that and it
  gets resolved by closing the choke a bit?
  

  

  
  
  It's labeled for 6250 running watts
and if I'm doing ~1500 that seems odd
that it'd be an overloading issue.
  
  
  Josh Luthman
  24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
  


  



  On Mon, Sep 21,
2020 at 12:24 PM TJ Trout 
wrote:
  
  
or maybe the 110v side is
  overloaded, maybe try running @ 220


  On Mon, Sep
21, 2020 at 9:22 AM 
wrote:
  
  

  

  Sounds like you have a carburetor
issue.  Maybe some plugged up
metering jets due to varnish.  
  

   
  
From: Josh
Luthman 
Sent: Monday,
  September 21, 2020 10:13 AM
To: AnimalFarm
Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG]
  Generator power supply
  questions
  

 
  
  
None of our
  generators or any one I've seen
  let's you adjust voltage.  The
  ones we have are all TroyBilt-ish
  with Briggs engines.
  
The UPS did switch to the
generator when I lowered the
choke ~10%.  But it would not
use the generator at full open
and the generator sounded like
it was bogging down.

  

   

Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Larry Smith]

Yea, that's the regular stuff, I use the STA-BIL 22239 which
is labeled Marine Fuel Stabilizer.  Seems to work better in
environments with lots of water.

Either work just about as well I am sure, main thing with
ethanol based fuel is that you use one (stabilizer).

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Mon September 21 2020 15:23, Josh Luthman wrote:
> We do put fuel stabil in it.  Looks like this:
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/STA-BIL-22208-Storage-Fuel-Stabilizer-8-fl-oz/16
>879745?wmlspartner=wlpa=0=1410&=227019318
>115==g=c=42529873352=aud-834279576166:pla-81187482992
>5=9015806pla=8175035=local=16879745=s
>em=Cj0KCQjwnqH7BRDdARIsACTSAduVLGNkTKxISk3QDHRBZ32cOrZ-mhsFE5F8b5RgSj5
>xVYUhZubqhZ4aApp1EALw_wcB
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:09 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
> > back when gas wasn't cut with corn and it didn't go bad anyway =) all of
> > the stabilization products worked great
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:39 PM  wrote:
> >> There used to be a product for airplanes.  Prist or something like that.
> >> Supposedly the best.  But that was back in the 1970s...
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Larry Smith
> >> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 1:36 PM
> >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
> >>
> >> I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
> >> Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
> >> that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
> >> fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Larry Smith
> >> lesm...@ecsis.net
> >>
> >> On Mon September 21 2020 13:20, Adam Moffett wrote:
> >> > Yeahengine maintenance on a generator is skipped more often than
> >> > not.  Go ahead and pay extra for the synthetic oil because you have to
> >> > admit to yourself that you're not going to remember to change it. 
> >> > Also after the outage just let it run until the tank is empty because
> >> > realistically you aren't going to drain and replace the fuel either.
> >> >
> >> > On 9/21/2020 2:14 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> >> > > Generators often sit with stale fuel in them, get overdue for oil
> >> > > changes, etc.
> >>
> >> --
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> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> >
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Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

[chuck]

Exactly Blue for –48.  That was the standard for all Automatic Electric step 
switches.  I think for Stromberg Carlson XY switches too.  I have had this 
argument many times with people that want to use red for –48.  That is just 
asking for trouble.  But so is using black for –48.  

From: George Skorup 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 2:18 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

820C/S most definitely tie DC plug + to chassis. Believe me. I smoked a 
RackInjector PDU board not paying attention. POE into those is floating. 
They'll basically take any 4pr scheme you throw at it. I have a couple 820S's 
running on AirFiber POE bricks.

Yes, I still do red for +24, orange for +48 and blue for -48 at mixed sites. 
Just makes sense to me. A wise man will use a labeler too. Which I always do. 
[sarcasm emoji]

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 2:25 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

  hmm... that's an interesting point about the direct DC input... I suppose it 
would be possible to have POE floating and the direct DC input tied to ground. 
Without thinking about it too much, it seems to me that would probably require 
some somewhat complicated circuitry that most likely isn't there though...


  On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

I can’t comment specifically on DC direct power to an Aviat radio.  Most 
802.3 POE powered radios are in fact floating and don’t care, but I’m not sure 
about the direct DC input.



As far as does one radio dictate how you power everything else?  No, but it 
does complicate things.  I have a site that was built with Eltek -48 VDC 
because we had a Purewave WiMax basestation which required -48V DC direct 
power.  We had several things like Mikrotik, Packetflux, Cambium and Ubiquiti 
that needed +24, so we have a Traco DC-DC converted that generates +24 from the 
-48  Actually it just generates 24 volts floating and we connect the – side to 
ground.  Then we got rid of the Purewave and replaced it with Cambiumj 450i 
which needs +48 (or +56), so we added a Mean Well DC-DC converter to give us 
+48.  So now we have -48, +24 and +48 in the same enclosure, each with their 
own bank of dual level DIN rail fuses for distribution.  The DC-DC converters 
are relatively small DIN rail supplies, so all of this takes us less room than 
it sounds like.



Actually we now feed this site with an 11 GHz PTP820S, and we used one of 
the DC powered POE injectors that can take + or – 24 or 48 volts, connected to 
the Eltek -48V.  Could have also used a Cat6-POE-APC off the +48V rail.  At 
some point we will probably switch to a +48V battery system since we don’t 
specifically need -48 anymore.  But this should demonstrate that you can have 
all sorts of DC voltages at a site, some with the + side connected to ground, 
some with the – side connected to ground.  You just need to keep your 
documentation straight.  The most complicated thing is probably choosing wire 
colors.  I use a lot of red/black zip cord so I’ve just accepted that red is + 
and black is – and you can’t make assumptions about which side is grounded.  
You could make a different decision and red is always hot and black is always 
ground.  Or don’t use zip cord and buy lots of colors of wire.  For awhile I 
was doing stuff like blue was -48 and red was +24 and yellow was +48 and orange 
was from the charger to the batteries and it got really confusing.





From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 10:07 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)



I run WTM4200's off of +48VDC plants.  Reach out to Ken Ruppel if you 
want/need more details.



On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:05 AM Steve Jones  
wrote:

  These are wtm4200. He told me the connector in the radio bonds + to 
ground at the radio. Could be wrong. I'm outside my wheelhouse anyway with this 
being our first direct dc radios.



  On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 10:00 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

I should have said -- at least the WTM4200 and WTM4800, both of which I 
have used.



On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:59 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

  Aviat radios don't bond + or - to the chassis.  You can run them at 
-48VDC or +48VDC.



  On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:45 AM Steve Jones 
 wrote:

So, like on these aviats, my contractor says they're -48v, but the 
connector in the radio bonds to ground. Does that mean my whole site has to 
have -48v or just radios powered by that particular psu?



On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 8:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Now if we could get the manufacturers to be less secretive about 
their POE schemes.  They mostly want you to use their POE device and don’t want 
to document the pinouts or explain if it matters which side is referenced to 
ground.



  Mostly I find that using a Cat6-POE-APC with the jumpers as set 
at the factory and 

Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

This particular generator is probably 2 years old.  The other ones are
probably closer to 12 years old and have 0 problems =/

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 3:31 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> How long have you had the generator? The first thing to have problems on a
> gas generator is usually the carburetor (and/or the fuel system). The only
> thing we've had to service on our gas generators is carbs, filters, and oil
> changes.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 9/21/2020 8:03 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Before the UPS units were plugged in, it ran just fine.  Once they were
> plugged in it sounded like it was struggling/running out of gas - this was
> resolved by closing the choke a little bit.  Do you think that's a
> frequency problem?
>
> 110vac at the UPS.  I didn't measure what was coming out of the generator.
>
> 6 amps per UPS load.  It charges very slowly so maybe 7-8 amps.  Still,
> well within the 20 amp circuit limit.  Generator has a 220v 30 amp plug as
> well.  It's an 8500w unit.  This is it:
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/Troy-Bilt-6250-8500-Watt-Gasoline-Portable-Generator-with-Briggs-Stratton-Engine/4732729
>
> UPS is two 1500va APC- Smart UPS 1500VA.  It's an OLDER version of this:
> https://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-SMX1500RM2U-1500VA-System/dp/B002TIR2Z2/
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:44 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> 110v at the generator or the other end of the 175 feet of 10 AWG wire?
>>
>>
>>
>> And total load is 5-6 amps each including the UPS charging the
>> batteries?  What kind of UPS?  Something like an APC will have a relatively
>> low charging current, other setups may be quite a bit higher.  I know our
>> Alpha UPS units have programmable charging current and I had to lower it in
>> case the only generator I have available is our smallest Honda 1000 VA,
>> otherwise the generator would run for a minute or two and then trip on
>> overload.
>>
>>
>>
>> Doing the math on voltage drop in the wire, 10 AWG is around 1 ohm per
>> 1000 feet, and you have 350 feet of wire including hot and neutral.  So
>> 0.35 ohm times 5.5 amps is 2 volts.  Assuming the generator is putting out
>> 120 volts, that wouldn’t account for a 10 volt drop.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sounds like you suspect the generator can’t handle the load and as a
>> result is putting out low voltage.
>>
>>
>>
>> What kind of generator is this?  Is it an inverter style?  What is the VA
>> rating?  If it’s just a standard generator for power tools and stuff, a UPS
>> will sometimes find the voltage or frequency out of spec or unstable and
>> refuse to run off it.  If it’s just an APC UPS or something like that,
>> sometimes they have a sensitivity setting that you can set lower.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 9:22 AM
>> *To:* AFMUG 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>>
>>
>>
>> So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They
>> unplugged it all so that wing had nothing.
>>
>>
>>
>> As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other
>> phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains
>> and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and
>> the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going
>> on here.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator,
>> two runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
>>
>>
>> What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as
>> simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open
>> choke.
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

There's no throttle, I guess it's tied to choke?  Not really my area of
knowledge at all...

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 1:25 PM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

> Does the choke also open the throttle?   That’s common on car engines, no
> idea if it does on a generator.   That little bit of choke might be kicking
> the speed up just enough to make the UPS happy.
>
> Mark
>
> On Sep 21, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> So you're thinking the 110v is probably its output and not relevant?  Carb
> issue could be causing it to bog down like that and it gets resolved by
> closing the choke a bit?
>
> It's labeled for 6250 running watts and if I'm doing ~1500 that seems odd
> that it'd be an overloading issue.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:24 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> or maybe the 110v side is overloaded, maybe try running @ 220
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 9:22 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Sounds like you have a carburetor issue.  Maybe some plugged up metering
>>> jets due to varnish.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 10:13 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>>>
>>> None of our generators or any one I've seen let's you adjust voltage.
>>> The ones we have are all TroyBilt-ish with Briggs engines.
>>>
>>> The UPS did switch to the generator when I lowered the choke ~10%.  But
>>> it would not use the generator at full open and the generator sounded like
>>> it was bogging down.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:57 AM  wrote:
>>>
 But engine speed will affect voltage.  At least on older units.

 -Original Message-
 From: Mark Radabaugh
 Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:40 AM
 To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

 Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the
 output voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just
 crank
 the generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note
 that is
 done by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine.
 Engine speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional
 generator, not a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)

 ark

 > On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman <
 j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
 > wrote:
 >
 > So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They
 unplugged
 > it all so that wing had nothing.
 >
 > As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the
 other
 > phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator
 complains
 > and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke
 and
 > the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's
 going
 > on here.
 >
 > I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the
 generator, two
 > runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
 >
 > What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as
 > simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full
 open
 > choke.
 >
 > Josh Luthman
 > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
 > Direct: 937-552-2343
 > 1100 Wayne St
 > Suite 1337
 > Troy, OH 45373
 > --
 > AF mailing list
 > AF@af.afmug.com
 > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

We do put fuel stabil in it.  Looks like this:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/STA-BIL-22208-Storage-Fuel-Stabilizer-8-fl-oz/16879745?wmlspartner=wlpa=0=1410&=227019318115==g=c=42529873352=aud-834279576166:pla-81187482992=9015806pla=8175035=local=16879745=sem=Cj0KCQjwnqH7BRDdARIsACTSAduVLGNkTKxISk3QDHRBZ32cOrZ-mhsFE5F8b5RgSj5xVYUhZubqhZ4aApp1EALw_wcB

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:09 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> back when gas wasn't cut with corn and it didn't go bad anyway =) all of
> the stabilization products worked great
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:39 PM  wrote:
>
>> There used to be a product for airplanes.  Prist or something like that.
>> Supposedly the best.  But that was back in the 1970s...
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Larry Smith
>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 1:36 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>>
>> I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
>> Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
>> that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
>> fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
>>
>> --
>> Larry Smith
>> lesm...@ecsis.net
>>
>> On Mon September 21 2020 13:20, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> > Yeahengine maintenance on a generator is skipped more often than
>> > not.  Go ahead and pay extra for the synthetic oil because you have to
>> > admit to yourself that you're not going to remember to change it.  Also
>> > after the outage just let it run until the tank is empty because
>> > realistically you aren't going to drain and replace the fuel either.
>> >
>> > On 9/21/2020 2:14 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> > > Generators often sit with stale fuel in them, get overdue for oil
>> > > changes, etc.
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

[George Skorup]

820C/S most definitely tie DC plug + to chassis. Believe me. I smoked a
RackInjector PDU board not paying attention. POE into those is floating.
They'll basically take any 4pr scheme you throw at it. I have a couple
820S's running on AirFiber POE bricks.

Yes, I still do red for +24, orange for +48 and blue for -48 at mixed
sites. Just makes sense to me. A wise man will use a labeler too. Which I
*always* do. [sarcasm emoji]

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 2:25 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> hmm... that's an interesting point about the direct DC input... I suppose
> it would be possible to have POE floating and the direct DC input tied to
> ground. Without thinking about it too much, it seems to me that would
> probably require some somewhat complicated circuitry that most likely isn't
> there though...
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> I can’t comment specifically on DC direct power to an Aviat radio.  Most
>> 802.3 POE powered radios are in fact floating and don’t care, but I’m not
>> sure about the direct DC input.
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as does one radio dictate how you power everything else?  No, but
>> it does complicate things.  I have a site that was built with Eltek -48 VDC
>> because we had a Purewave WiMax basestation which required -48V DC direct
>> power.  We had several things like Mikrotik, Packetflux, Cambium and
>> Ubiquiti that needed +24, so we have a Traco DC-DC converted that generates
>> +24 from the -48  Actually it just generates 24 volts floating and we
>> connect the – side to ground.  Then we got rid of the Purewave and replaced
>> it with Cambiumj 450i which needs +48 (or +56), so we added a Mean Well
>> DC-DC converter to give us +48.  So now we have -48, +24 and +48 in the
>> same enclosure, each with their own bank of dual level DIN rail fuses for
>> distribution.  The DC-DC converters are relatively small DIN rail supplies,
>> so all of this takes us less room than it sounds like.
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually we now feed this site with an 11 GHz PTP820S, and we used one of
>> the DC powered POE injectors that can take + or – 24 or 48 volts, connected
>> to the Eltek -48V.  Could have also used a Cat6-POE-APC off the +48V rail.
>> At some point we will probably switch to a +48V battery system since we
>> don’t specifically need -48 anymore.  But this should demonstrate that you
>> can have all sorts of DC voltages at a site, some with the + side connected
>> to ground, some with the – side connected to ground.  You just need to keep
>> your documentation straight.  The most complicated thing is probably
>> choosing wire colors.  I use a lot of red/black zip cord so I’ve just
>> accepted that red is + and black is – and you can’t make assumptions about
>> which side is grounded.  You could make a different decision and red is
>> always hot and black is always ground.  Or don’t use zip cord and buy lots
>> of colors of wire.  For awhile I was doing stuff like blue was -48 and red
>> was +24 and yellow was +48 and orange was from the charger to the batteries
>> and it got really confusing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 10:07 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>>
>>
>>
>> I run WTM4200's off of +48VDC plants.  Reach out to Ken Ruppel if you
>> want/need more details.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:05 AM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> These are wtm4200. He told me the connector in the radio bonds + to
>> ground at the radio. Could be wrong. I'm outside my wheelhouse anyway with
>> this being our first direct dc radios.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 10:00 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>> I should have said -- at least the WTM4200 and WTM4800, both of which I
>> have used.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:59 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>> Aviat radios don't bond + or - to the chassis.  You can run them at
>> -48VDC or +48VDC.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:45 AM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> So, like on these aviats, my contractor says they're -48v, but the
>> connector in the radio bonds to ground. Does that mean my whole site has to
>> have -48v or just radios powered by that particular psu?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 8:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Now if we could get the manufacturers to be less secretive about their
>> POE schemes.  They mostly want you to use their POE device and don’t want
>> to document the pinouts or explain if it matters which side is referenced
>> to ground.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mostly I find that using a Cat6-POE-APC with the jumpers as set at the
>> factory and + and – hooked up per the markings works.  Which is basically
>> 802.3at.  It works with the – side grounded, I suspect it would also work
>> with the + side grounded, or neither.  I was hesitant to use this on a
>> PTP820 but it works fine.  I don’t know why they make their POE scheme
>> sound so mysterious.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On 

Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[TJ Trout]

back when gas wasn't cut with corn and it didn't go bad anyway =) all of
the stabilization products worked great

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:39 PM  wrote:

> There used to be a product for airplanes.  Prist or something like that.
> Supposedly the best.  But that was back in the 1970s...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Larry Smith
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 1:36 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>
> I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
> Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
> that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
> fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.
>
> --
> Larry Smith
> lesm...@ecsis.net
>
> On Mon September 21 2020 13:20, Adam Moffett wrote:
> > Yeahengine maintenance on a generator is skipped more often than
> > not.  Go ahead and pay extra for the synthetic oil because you have to
> > admit to yourself that you're not going to remember to change it.  Also
> > after the outage just let it run until the tank is empty because
> > realistically you aren't going to drain and replace the fuel either.
> >
> > On 9/21/2020 2:14 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > > Generators often sit with stale fuel in them, get overdue for oil
> > > changes, etc.
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question

[Ken Hohhof]

The issue Mark is talking about is that relay contact ratings are lower for DC 
because AC arcs are self-extinguishing.

 

On the other hand, AC is RMS and the peak will be higher, so technically 24VAC 
is around 34V peak on a sinewave.  But I suspect you’d be fine.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 2:28 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question

 

He was talking about the output, so I assume we're talking about the voltage 
that's being switched, not the input.

 

bp


On 9/21/2020 12:25 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Are we talking about AC on the contacts? 

 

Coil will only work with what it’s specified for (AC or DC).

 

Contacts will be fine with AC if they have a DC rating.   The inverse isn’t 
necessarily true.

 

Mark





On Sep 21, 2020, at 3:17 PM, Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

But the reverse is generally not a problem. AC RMS  current is much less 
demanding than continuous DC current.

 

bp


On 9/21/2020 9:40 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

I have had AC coil relays get stuck closed with putting DC on them.  

 

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 10:30 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question

 

it will work fine

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 8:34 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

Yes, some do.  Some will get magnitized if they are AC relays and you use DC 
on them.

-Original Message- 
From: Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:29 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question

The Specsheet for the 4 channel relay output unit says 1A@24VDC.  I want
to control some HVAC Dampers that are running at 24VAC.  The Relay
doesn't care if it's VAC or VDC right?

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Larry Smith]

I have learned to almost love Sta-BIL 360 Marine fuel stabilizer.
Use it in our golf cart, boat, motorcycles, lawn mowers, anything
that can (and likely) does sit for any period of time with ethanol
fuel in it.  It seems to actually work.

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Mon September 21 2020 13:20, Adam Moffett wrote:
> Yeahengine maintenance on a generator is skipped more often than
> not.  Go ahead and pay extra for the synthetic oil because you have to
> admit to yourself that you're not going to remember to change it.  Also
> after the outage just let it run until the tank is empty because
> realistically you aren't going to drain and replace the fuel either.
>
> On 9/21/2020 2:14 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > Generators often sit with stale fuel in them, get overdue for oil
> > changes, etc.

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Bill Prince]

  
  
How long have you had the generator? The first thing to have
  problems on a gas generator is usually the carburetor (and/or the
  fuel system). The only thing we've had to service on our gas
  generators is carbs, filters, and oil changes.


bp

On 9/21/2020 8:03 AM, Josh Luthman
  wrote:


  
  
Before the UPS units were plugged in, it ran just fine. 
  Once they were plugged in it sounded like it was
  struggling/running out of gas - this was resolved by closing
  the choke a little bit.  Do you think that's a frequency
  problem?


110vac at the UPS.  I didn't measure what was coming out of the
generator.


6 amps per UPS load.  It charges very slowly so maybe 7-8
  amps.  Still, well within the 20 amp circuit limit.  Generator
  has a 220v 30 amp plug as well.  It's an 8500w unit.  This is
  it: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Troy-Bilt-6250-8500-Watt-Gasoline-Portable-Generator-with-Briggs-Stratton-Engine/4732729


UPS is two 1500va APC- Smart UPS 1500VA.  It's an OLDER
  version of this: https://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-SMX1500RM2U-1500VA-System/dp/B002TIR2Z2/
  

  


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

  
  

  
  
  
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:44
  AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:


  

  110v at the generator or the other
end of the 175 feet of 10 AWG wire?
   
  And total load is 5-6 amps each
including the UPS charging the batteries?  What kind of
UPS?  Something like an APC will have a relatively low
charging current, other setups may be quite a bit
higher.  I know our Alpha UPS units have programmable
charging current and I had to lower it in case the only
generator I have available is our smallest Honda 1000
VA, otherwise the generator would run for a minute or
two and then trip on overload.
   
  Doing the math on voltage drop in the
wire, 10 AWG is around 1 ohm per 1000 feet, and you have
350 feet of wire including hot and neutral.  So 0.35 ohm
times 5.5 amps is 2 volts.  Assuming the generator is
putting out 120 volts, that wouldn’t account for a 10
volt drop.
   
  Sounds like you suspect the generator
can’t handle the load and as a result is putting out low
voltage.
   
  What kind of generator is this?  Is
it an inverter style?  What is the VA rating?  If it’s
just a standard generator for power tools and stuff, a
UPS will sometimes find the voltage or frequency out of
spec or unstable and refuse to run off it.  If it’s just
an APC UPS or something like that, sometimes they have a
sensitivity setting that you can set lower.
   
   
  
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:22 AM
  To: AFMUG 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Generator power supply
  questions
  
   
  
So Friday we have another 3 phase
  go down in the building.  They unplugged it all so
  that wing had nothing.

   


  As a precaution I start up the
generator.  When they're cutting the other phases we
are using I move it to the generator.  The generator
complains and the UPS units don't switch over.  I
drop it to say 90% open choke and the UPS switches
over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's
going on here.


   


  I have 175 feet of 10 gauge
(times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two runs
of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps
each.


  
What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd
like to 

Re: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question

[Bill Prince]

  
  
He was talking about the output, so I assume we're talking about
  the voltage that's being switched, not the input.


bp

On 9/21/2020 12:25 PM, Mark Radabaugh
  wrote:


  
  Are we talking about AC on the contacts?
  
  
  Coil will only work with what it’s specified for (AC
or DC).
  
  
  Contacts will be fine with AC if they have a DC
rating.   The inverse isn’t necessarily true.
  
  
  Mark

  
On Sep 21, 2020, at 3:17 PM, Bill Prince 
  wrote:


  
  
But the reverse is generally not a problem.
  AC RMS  current is much less demanding than continuous
  DC current.


bp

On 9/21/2020 9:40 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  I have had AC coil relays get stuck
closed with putting DC on them.  
  

   
  
From: TJ Trout

Sent: Monday,
  September 21, 2020 10:30 AM
To: AnimalFarm
Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re:
  [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question
  

 
  
  
it will work fine
 

  On Mon, Sep
21, 2020 at 8:34 AM 
wrote:
  
  Yes, some do.  Some will get
magnitized if they are AC relays and you use
DC 
on them.

-Original Message- 
From: Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:29 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question

The Specsheet for the 4 channel relay output
unit says 1A@24VDC.  I want
to control some HVAC Dampers that are
running at 24VAC.  The Relay
doesn't care if it's VAC or VDC right?

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Re: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question

[Mark Radabaugh]

Are we talking about AC on the contacts?

Coil will only work with what it’s specified for (AC or DC).

Contacts will be fine with AC if they have a DC rating.   The inverse isn’t 
necessarily true.

Mark

> On Sep 21, 2020, at 3:17 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> But the reverse is generally not a problem. AC RMS  current is much less 
> demanding than continuous DC current.
> 
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> On 9/21/2020 9:40 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com  wrote:
>> I have had AC coil relays get stuck closed with putting DC on them. 
>>  
>> From: TJ Trout <>
>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 10:30 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question
>>  
>> it will work fine
>>  
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 8:34 AM > wrote:
>> Yes, some do.  Some will get magnitized if they are AC relays and you use DC 
>> on them.
>> 
>> -Original Message- 
>> From: Nate Burke
>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:29 AM
>> To: Animal Farm
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question
>> 
>> The Specsheet for the 4 channel relay output unit says 1A@24VDC.  I want
>> to control some HVAC Dampers that are running at 24VAC.  The Relay
>> doesn't care if it's VAC or VDC right?
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

[Mathew Howard]

hmm... that's an interesting point about the direct DC input... I suppose
it would be possible to have POE floating and the direct DC input tied to
ground. Without thinking about it too much, it seems to me that would
probably require some somewhat complicated circuitry that most likely isn't
there though...

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I can’t comment specifically on DC direct power to an Aviat radio.  Most
> 802.3 POE powered radios are in fact floating and don’t care, but I’m not
> sure about the direct DC input.
>
>
>
> As far as does one radio dictate how you power everything else?  No, but
> it does complicate things.  I have a site that was built with Eltek -48 VDC
> because we had a Purewave WiMax basestation which required -48V DC direct
> power.  We had several things like Mikrotik, Packetflux, Cambium and
> Ubiquiti that needed +24, so we have a Traco DC-DC converted that generates
> +24 from the -48  Actually it just generates 24 volts floating and we
> connect the – side to ground.  Then we got rid of the Purewave and replaced
> it with Cambiumj 450i which needs +48 (or +56), so we added a Mean Well
> DC-DC converter to give us +48.  So now we have -48, +24 and +48 in the
> same enclosure, each with their own bank of dual level DIN rail fuses for
> distribution.  The DC-DC converters are relatively small DIN rail supplies,
> so all of this takes us less room than it sounds like.
>
>
>
> Actually we now feed this site with an 11 GHz PTP820S, and we used one of
> the DC powered POE injectors that can take + or – 24 or 48 volts, connected
> to the Eltek -48V.  Could have also used a Cat6-POE-APC off the +48V rail.
> At some point we will probably switch to a +48V battery system since we
> don’t specifically need -48 anymore.  But this should demonstrate that you
> can have all sorts of DC voltages at a site, some with the + side connected
> to ground, some with the – side connected to ground.  You just need to keep
> your documentation straight.  The most complicated thing is probably
> choosing wire colors.  I use a lot of red/black zip cord so I’ve just
> accepted that red is + and black is – and you can’t make assumptions about
> which side is grounded.  You could make a different decision and red is
> always hot and black is always ground.  Or don’t use zip cord and buy lots
> of colors of wire.  For awhile I was doing stuff like blue was -48 and red
> was +24 and yellow was +48 and orange was from the charger to the batteries
> and it got really confusing.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 10:07 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>
>
>
> I run WTM4200's off of +48VDC plants.  Reach out to Ken Ruppel if you
> want/need more details.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:05 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> These are wtm4200. He told me the connector in the radio bonds + to ground
> at the radio. Could be wrong. I'm outside my wheelhouse anyway with this
> being our first direct dc radios.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 10:00 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>
> I should have said -- at least the WTM4200 and WTM4800, both of which I
> have used.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:59 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>
> Aviat radios don't bond + or - to the chassis.  You can run them at -48VDC
> or +48VDC.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:45 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> So, like on these aviats, my contractor says they're -48v, but the
> connector in the radio bonds to ground. Does that mean my whole site has to
> have -48v or just radios powered by that particular psu?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 8:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Now if we could get the manufacturers to be less secretive about their POE
> schemes.  They mostly want you to use their POE device and don’t want to
> document the pinouts or explain if it matters which side is referenced to
> ground.
>
>
>
> Mostly I find that using a Cat6-POE-APC with the jumpers as set at the
> factory and + and – hooked up per the markings works.  Which is basically
> 802.3at.  It works with the – side grounded, I suspect it would also work
> with the + side grounded, or neither.  I was hesitant to use this on a
> PTP820 but it works fine.  I don’t know why they make their POE scheme
> sound so mysterious.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 8:44 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>
>
>
> Yep - great explanation!
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 4:55 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> You have a power supply, say a 6 volt car battery.  You connect a pair of
> headlights to it with two wires. All is well.
>
>
>
> Now you start building cars.  And you are going to wire up the
> headlights.  Someone points out that you can save some money on wiring by
> using the car chassis instead if one of the wires.
>
>
>
> You decide to run 

Re: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question

[Bill Prince]

  
  
But the reverse is generally not a problem. AC RMS  current is
  much less demanding than continuous DC current.


bp

On 9/21/2020 9:40 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  I have had AC coil relays get stuck closed with putting
DC on them.  
  

   
  
From: TJ
Trout 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 10:30 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay
  Question
  

 
  
  
it will work fine
 

  On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at
8:34 AM 
wrote:
  
  Yes, some do.  Some will get magnitized if
they are AC relays and you use DC 
on them.

-Original Message- 
From: Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:29 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question

The Specsheet for the 4 channel relay output unit says
1A@24VDC.  I want
to control some HVAC Dampers that are running at 24VAC. 
The Relay
doesn't care if it's VAC or VDC right?

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Re: [AFMUG] GPON over radio

[chuck]

With Calix you can go way beyond 20 km if you split less.  So the timing for 
them is not as tight as the GPON spec.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2020 8:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] GPON over radio

I've talked to someone who made a GPON extender out of back to back SFPs so its 
probably not entirely nuts. The timing range is pretty narrow so you'll have to 
consider any delay in the radio link will be significant. Many platforms the 
nearest to furthest ONU must be within 20km even if they are all much further 
out they can't differ by >20km. 


On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 12:12 PM  wrote:

  I am wondering if I took a media converter with a bidi with the gpon up and 
down frequency and did another one at the other end, if the signal would come 
out unmolsted.  



  From: Matt Hoppes 
  Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 9:49 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] GPON over radio

  Yikes. Sounds like the old attempts to do DOCSIS over RF. 


On Sep 19, 2020, at 11:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:


 
Anyone ever figured out how to take a gpon on fiber and run it over 
microwave radios/ethernet and back to gpon?
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Adam Moffett]

Yeahengine maintenance on a generator is skipped more often than 
not.  Go ahead and pay extra for the synthetic oil because you have to 
admit to yourself that you're not going to remember to change it.  Also 
after the outage just let it run until the tank is empty because 
realistically you aren't going to drain and replace the fuel either.



On 9/21/2020 2:14 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Generators often sit with stale fuel in them, get overdue for oil 
changes, etc. 


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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Ken Hohhof]

I’ve had cases where a UPS would cycle back and forth between trying to run off 
the generator and off batteries, each time it would try to run off the 
generator it would bog down the generator and the voltage would drop and the 
UPS would sense undervoltage and kick back to batteries and it would just 
thrash like that.  That was years ago, the last time I tried to use a 
conventional generator.  Doesn’t sound like your problem though.

 

It’s also possible the generator has a problem, needs a tuneup or something.  
Generators often sit with stale fuel in them, get overdue for oil changes, etc. 
 Can it run a load close to its rated capacity OK, like 6000 watts of electric 
heaters or something?  Can it run a sump pump?  I had a brand new generator 
once that would run but not with a significant load, turns out it had a spark 
plug cracked in shipment.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 12:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

 

So you're thinking the 110v is probably its output and not relevant?  Carb 
issue could be causing it to bog down like that and it gets resolved by closing 
the choke a bit?

 

It's labeled for 6250 running watts and if I'm doing ~1500 that seems odd that 
it'd be an overloading issue.

 

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:24 PM TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com> > wrote:

or maybe the 110v side is overloaded, maybe try running @ 220

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 9:22 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

Sounds like you have a carburetor issue.  Maybe some plugged up metering jets 
due to varnish.  

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 10:13 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

 

None of our generators or any one I've seen let's you adjust voltage.  The ones 
we have are all TroyBilt-ish with Briggs engines. 


The UPS did switch to the generator when I lowered the choke ~10%.  But it 
would not use the generator at full open and the generator sounded like it was 
bogging down.


 

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:57 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

But engine speed will affect voltage.  At least on older units.

-Original Message- 
From: Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:40 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the 
output voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just crank 
the generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note that is 
done by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine. 
Engine speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional 
generator, not a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)

ark

> On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman   > 
> wrote:
>
> So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged 
> it all so that wing had nothing.
>
> As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other 
> phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains 
> and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and 
> the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going 
> on here.
>
> I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two 
> runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
>
> What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as 
> simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open 
> choke.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Adam Moffett]

Our emergency generator now is a 20KW diesel.  The UPS's like that one 
just fine.


I've wondered sometimes if it's not about how many Watts it could make, 
but about the number of cylinders.  If you have a 2 cylinder engine then 
it seems like all the power for one side of the stator would end up 
coming from one cylinder.  That would seem to account for the engine 
running rougher when the load was uneven.  A 2 cylinder 4-stroke is also 
coasting on momentum half of the time, so the resitance on the stator 
must be slowing the rotation between power strokes and then it must 
burst back to full speed during the power stroke.  That would also seem 
to lead to rough running and fluctuating frequency.


That's speculation on my part, but Incidentally the 20KW diesel is 4 
cylinders.



On 9/21/2020 1:56 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:
Some UPS don't care for an unregulated AC. Either run your current 
generator through a line conditioner or go with inverter generators. 
The latter would be my choice and is what I use. Way back in the day I 
had cisco t1 routers that would not run on a 6kw portable generator. I 
had to use my truck inverter to power the site.


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 10:49 Adam Moffett > wrote:


Ken's answer of "use an inverter generator" is probably the
simplest thing.  You'll have way fewer problems than with any
other portable generator.  Also "dramatically oversize the
generator" would be a good solution too.

Half the windings on the generator give you a 110v phase.  The
other half give you the other 110v phase. Both together gives you
the 220v.

Are both UPS's about 5-6 amps, or is one much heavier loaded than
the other?  Are they both on the same phase or are they on
opposite phases?  A wiring diagram for the Troy-Bilt 6250 shows
two separate circuit breakers feeding two separate duplexes, so
you'd want to distribute load across them both.

If one phase has more load than the other, then there's more
resistance on one side of the stator.  That'll make the engine run
rough and that'll make the frequency unstable. Lights and power
tools won't care, but UPS's will.  If that was the issue, then the
engine would run better with a 220v UPS.  If the imbalance is real
bad you can even stall the engine. A bigger engine won't care so
much, and an inverter generator doesn't have this issue at all. 
At one time when the server room had to run on a 6KW generator I
had lots of problems until I carefully balanced the loadsso
there's my anecdotal/experimental evidence.

There might also be a sensitivity setting on the UPS. I'm not sure
about that specific model, but on some of them you can get into
the management software and change them to be less sensitive about
the AC input.

-Adam




On 9/21/2020 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They
unplugged it all so that wing had nothing.

As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting
the other phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The
generator complains and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop
it to say 90% open choke and the UPS switches over - but it's
only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going on here.

I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the
generator, two runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6
amps each.

What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it
as simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it
from full open choke.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Jason Wilson]

Some UPS don't care for an unregulated AC. Either run your current
generator through a line conditioner or go with inverter generators. The
latter would be my choice and is what I use. Way back in the day I had
cisco t1 routers that would not run on a 6kw portable generator. I had to
use my truck inverter to power the site.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 10:49 Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Ken's answer of "use an inverter generator" is probably the simplest
> thing.  You'll have way fewer problems than with any other portable
> generator.  Also "dramatically oversize the generator" would be a good
> solution too.
>
> Half the windings on the generator give you a 110v phase.  The other half
> give you the other 110v phase.  Both together gives you the 220v.
>
> Are both UPS's about 5-6 amps, or is one much heavier loaded than the
> other?  Are they both on the same phase or are they on opposite phases?  A
> wiring diagram for the Troy-Bilt 6250 shows two separate circuit breakers
> feeding two separate duplexes, so you'd want to distribute load across them
> both.
>
> If one phase has more load than the other, then there's more resistance on
> one side of the stator.  That'll make the engine run rough and that'll make
> the frequency unstable. Lights and power tools won't care, but UPS's will.
> If that was the issue, then the engine would run better with a 220v UPS.
> If the imbalance is real bad you can even stall the engine. A bigger engine
> won't care so much, and an inverter generator doesn't have this issue at
> all.  At one time when the server room had to run on a 6KW generator I had
> lots of problems until I carefully balanced the loadsso there's my
> anecdotal/experimental evidence.
>
> There might also be a sensitivity setting on the UPS.  I'm not sure about
> that specific model, but on some of them you can get into the management
> software and change them to be less sensitive about the AC input.
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
> On 9/21/2020 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged
> it all so that wing had nothing.
>
> As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other
> phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains
> and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and
> the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going
> on here.
>
> I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two
> runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
>
> What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as
> simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open
> choke.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
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Re: [AFMUG] FBI Virus?

[Steven Kenney]

Believe or not FBI called me once in Canada. Most law enforcement will call 
first. Talk to someone then follow up with email. I always ask for a number 
that I can call them back that shows up as a legit number that is traced back 
to the proper law enforcement. Then I trace the headers in the email. 

They are used to making sure they verify their ID to you, so you wont have any 
problems if you ask. 

[ https://www.wavedirect.net/ |] 
[ https://www.facebook.com/ruralhighspeed ] [ 
https://www.instagram.com/wave.direct/ ] [ 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/wavedirect-telecommunication/ ] [ 
https://twitter.com/wavedirect1 ] [ https://www.youtube.com/user/WaveDirect ] 
STEVEN KENNEY 
DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL CONNECTIVITY & CONTINUITY A: 158 Erie St. N | Leamington ON 
E: st...@wavedirect.org | P: 519-737-9283 
W: www.wavedirect.net 


From: "Bill Prince"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2020 3:26:23 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FBI Virus? 



I am doubtful that the FBI would contact you via email. Most likely they would 
send you a letter (assuming the USPS could deliver it). If they're actually 
serving you a subpoena, I would expect agents or some legal officer would issue 
it to you in person. 

I would file it in the same category as this voice mail I got yesterday: 





BQ_BEGIN
Listen to this message carefully, this message is to inform you that SSA and 
legal enforcement agency is filing a legal warrant against your name and your 
Social Security number for fraudulent activities and arrest em has also been 
issued on your name for money laundering and the investigating team of our 
department is investigating you and your family to get more information about 
your arrest warrant in case File from United States government. You may press 
one for more information before we download your case into the courthouse. 
Thank you, press one now. 



BQ_END

bp
 
On 9/18/2020 11:49 AM, Nate Burke wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN
I got this message to the INFO mailbox of a company we acquired a year ago. 
Everything about it says that it's spam, but the headers look legit. Although 
the 153.31.119.142 IP address does not exist in the ARIN whois. BGP.he.net says 
that it's part of a /17 assigned to the FBI. It has an attached PDF that I have 
not yet opened. (file name SBP634366-WOW125412.pdf) I can't imagine this is 
anything other than Spam/virus? Is it possible this is how the FBI Actually 
sends out things? 

What's the best way to open a suspect PDF File? 


_ 

*** CHILD EXPLOITATION *** 

Good afternoon - please review the attached administrative subpoena and proceed 
accordingly - thank you and have a great weekend! 

AS Jennifer L. Isom 
FBI Chicago 
Violent Crimes Against Children 
312-829-5835 


- 
Email Headers: 
Received: from mx-east-ic.fbi.gov ([153.31.119.142]) 
Received: from unknown (HELO HQV2-UEMBX-401.fbi.gov) ([10.93.22.26]) 
by mx-east-ic.fbi.gov with ESMTP; 18 Sep 2020 14:21:58 -0400 
Received: from hqv2-uembx-402.FBI.GOV (10.90.70.12) by hqv2-uembx-401.FBI.GOV 
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2020 14:21:57 -0400 
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2020 18:21:54 + 




BQ_END

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Adam Moffett]

Ken's answer of "use an inverter generator" is probably the simplest 
thing.  You'll have way fewer problems than with any other portable 
generator.  Also "dramatically oversize the generator" would be a good 
solution too.


Half the windings on the generator give you a 110v phase.  The other 
half give you the other 110v phase.  Both together gives you the 220v.


Are both UPS's about 5-6 amps, or is one much heavier loaded than the 
other?  Are they both on the same phase or are they on opposite phases?  
A wiring diagram for the Troy-Bilt 6250 shows two separate circuit 
breakers feeding two separate duplexes, so you'd want to distribute load 
across them both.


If one phase has more load than the other, then there's more resistance 
on one side of the stator.  That'll make the engine run rough and 
that'll make the frequency unstable. Lights and power tools won't care, 
but UPS's will.  If that was the issue, then the engine would run better 
with a 220v UPS.  If the imbalance is real bad you can even stall the 
engine. A bigger engine won't care so much, and an inverter generator 
doesn't have this issue at all. At one time when the server room had to 
run on a 6KW generator I had lots of problems until I carefully balanced 
the loadsso there's my anecdotal/experimental evidence.


There might also be a sensitivity setting on the UPS.  I'm not sure 
about that specific model, but on some of them you can get into the 
management software and change them to be less sensitive about the AC 
input.


-Adam




On 9/21/2020 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They 
unplugged it all so that wing had nothing.


As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the 
other phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator 
complains and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% 
open choke and the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like 
to know what's going on here.


I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, 
two runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.


What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as 
simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full 
open choke.


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Mark Radabaugh]

Does the choke also open the throttle?   That’s common on car engines, no idea 
if it does on a generator.   That little bit of choke might be kicking the 
speed up just enough to make the UPS happy.

Mark

> On Sep 21, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> 
> So you're thinking the 110v is probably its output and not relevant?  Carb 
> issue could be causing it to bog down like that and it gets resolved by 
> closing the choke a bit?
> 
> It's labeled for 6250 running watts and if I'm doing ~1500 that seems odd 
> that it'd be an overloading issue.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:24 PM TJ Trout  > wrote:
> or maybe the 110v side is overloaded, maybe try running @ 220
> 
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 9:22 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
> wrote:
> Sounds like you have a carburetor issue.  Maybe some plugged up metering jets 
> due to varnish. 
>  
> From: Josh Luthman <>
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 10:13 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>  
> None of our generators or any one I've seen let's you adjust voltage.  The 
> ones we have are all TroyBilt-ish with Briggs engines.
> 
> The UPS did switch to the generator when I lowered the choke ~10%.  But it 
> would not use the generator at full open and the generator sounded like it 
> was bogging down.
>  
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>  
>  
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:57 AM > wrote:
> But engine speed will affect voltage.  At least on older units.
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Mark Radabaugh
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:40 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
> 
> Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the 
> output voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just crank 
> the generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note that is 
> done by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine. 
> Engine speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional 
> generator, not a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)
> 
> ark
> 
> > On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman > 
> > wrote:
> >
> > So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged 
> > it all so that wing had nothing.
> >
> > As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other 
> > phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains 
> > and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and 
> > the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going 
> > on here.
> >
> > I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two 
> > runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
> >
> > What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as 
> > simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open 
> > choke.
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> > -- 
> > AF mailing list
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> > 
> 
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>  
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

So you're thinking the 110v is probably its output and not relevant?  Carb
issue could be causing it to bog down like that and it gets resolved by
closing the choke a bit?

It's labeled for 6250 running watts and if I'm doing ~1500 that seems odd
that it'd be an overloading issue.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:24 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> or maybe the 110v side is overloaded, maybe try running @ 220
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 9:22 AM  wrote:
>
>> Sounds like you have a carburetor issue.  Maybe some plugged up metering
>> jets due to varnish.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 10:13 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>>
>> None of our generators or any one I've seen let's you adjust voltage.
>> The ones we have are all TroyBilt-ish with Briggs engines.
>>
>> The UPS did switch to the generator when I lowered the choke ~10%.  But
>> it would not use the generator at full open and the generator sounded like
>> it was bogging down.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:57 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> But engine speed will affect voltage.  At least on older units.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Mark Radabaugh
>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:40 AM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>>>
>>> Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the
>>> output voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just
>>> crank
>>> the generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note
>>> that is
>>> done by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine.
>>> Engine speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional
>>> generator, not a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)
>>>
>>> ark
>>>
>>> > On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They
>>> unplugged
>>> > it all so that wing had nothing.
>>> >
>>> > As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the
>>> other
>>> > phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator
>>> complains
>>> > and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke
>>> and
>>> > the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's
>>> going
>>> > on here.
>>> >
>>> > I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator,
>>> two
>>> > runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
>>> >
>>> > What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as
>>> > simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full
>>> open
>>> > choke.
>>> >
>>> > Josh Luthman
>>> > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> > 1100 Wayne St
>>> > Suite 1337
>>> > Troy, OH 45373
>>> > --
>>> > AF mailing list
>>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Robert]

When you get a sales person that has that kind of connectivity they 
pretty much feel they can pull those customers with them to any provider 
they want to work for.   Watched exactly that at L3 when we started up.  
They hired a team of sales droids that could pull million dollar 
customers over because of a higher commission plan.   The VP of sales 
then pulled the rug out from under them after the first year.  L3 lost a 
couple of those huge customers when the sales droids jumped ship but 
kept the majority of them with lower prices paid partially with the new 
sales droid contracts...


On 9/21/20 9:55 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

That's kind of my thought.

So you brought in 2 million in yearly recurring sales?  I'm perfectly 
happy giving you 200k in salary for that.


On 9/21/20 12:46 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
If you have somebody who can actually make those sales then they're 
worth almost anything you can pay them.


On 9/21/2020 12:41 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

This is for business.   Not residential.

On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but 
maybe I am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for 
that always scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their 
residual gets so high they no longer have to get new clients to 
earn a great living so they eventually stop selling and just work 
part time maintaining their base and lifestyle.


At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I 
would either limit residual to some period of months and only 
extend it if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer 
term.


None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will 
produce commission report for you.


On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes 
> wrote:


    I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5%
    ongoing.

    I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making
    more too.

    A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
    Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for them
    considering what they are bringing in.


    On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
    mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net>> wrote:

     We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x 
the

    monthly for that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We
    usually have term contracts so as to ensure the revenue stream
    over time since we're paying the commission up front. We haven't
    done a recurring commission yet.
    

    *Jesse DuPont*

    Owner / Network Architect
    email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
    
    Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
    Like us! facebook.com/ 
celeritynetworksllc


    Like us! facebook.com/ celeritybroadband

    

    On 9/20/20 8:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
    Does anyone have an excel sheet or other tracking method for 
a commissioned sales person they’d want to share, or share how 
you do it?


    We are hiring our first outside sales person. She has a base 
salary, but then gets bonuses based on closed sales, as well as 
recurring commission for accounts that stay.


    Trying to figure out the best way to track this.



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Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Matt Hoppes]

That's kind of my thought.

So you brought in 2 million in yearly recurring sales?  I'm perfectly 
happy giving you 200k in salary for that.


On 9/21/20 12:46 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
If you have somebody who can actually make those sales then they're 
worth almost anything you can pay them.


On 9/21/2020 12:41 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

This is for business.   Not residential.

On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe 
I am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that 
always scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual 
gets so high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great 
living so they eventually stop selling and just work part time 
maintaining their base and lifestyle.


At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I 
would either limit residual to some period of months and only extend 
it if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.


None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will 
produce commission report for you.


On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes 
> wrote:


    I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5%
    ongoing.

    I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making
    more too.

    A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
    Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for them
    considering what they are bringing in.


    On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
    mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net>> wrote:

     We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the
    monthly for that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We
    usually have term contracts so as to ensure the revenue stream
    over time since we're paying the commission up front. We haven't
    done a recurring commission yet.
    

    *Jesse DuPont*

    Owner / Network Architect
    email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
    
    Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
    Like us! facebook.com/ 
celeritynetworksllc


    Like us! facebook.com/ celeritybroadband

    

    On 9/20/20 8:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
    Does anyone have an excel sheet or other tracking method for a 
commissioned sales person they’d want to share, or share how you do 
it?


    We are hiring our first outside sales person. She has a base 
salary, but then gets bonuses based on closed sales, as well as 
recurring commission for accounts that stay.


    Trying to figure out the best way to track this.



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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Ken Hohhof]

I gave up long ago trying to be cheap and run a UPS or any electronics off that 
kind of generator which is meant for power tools and has mechanical governors 
for voltage and frequency.  I would just pay the money for a Honda EU2200i or 
similar inverter style generator and be done with it.

 

My next door neighbor after our last power outage bought something off Amazon 
that was an inverter style trifuel generator instead of the Honda, but I don’t 
have any feedback from him on how it worked out.  Obviously the advantage being 
right out of the box it could run on either gasoline or propane.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 10:04 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

 

Before the UPS units were plugged in, it ran just fine.  Once they were plugged 
in it sounded like it was struggling/running out of gas - this was resolved by 
closing the choke a little bit.  Do you think that's a frequency problem?

 

110vac at the UPS.  I didn't measure what was coming out of the generator.

 

6 amps per UPS load.  It charges very slowly so maybe 7-8 amps.  Still, well 
within the 20 amp circuit limit.  Generator has a 220v 30 amp plug as well.  
It's an 8500w unit.  This is it: 
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Troy-Bilt-6250-8500-Watt-Gasoline-Portable-Generator-with-Briggs-Stratton-Engine/4732729

 

UPS is two 1500va APC- Smart UPS 1500VA.  It's an OLDER version of this: 
https://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-SMX1500RM2U-1500VA-System/dp/B002TIR2Z2/


 

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:44 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

110v at the generator or the other end of the 175 feet of 10 AWG wire?

 

And total load is 5-6 amps each including the UPS charging the batteries?  What 
kind of UPS?  Something like an APC will have a relatively low charging 
current, other setups may be quite a bit higher.  I know our Alpha UPS units 
have programmable charging current and I had to lower it in case the only 
generator I have available is our smallest Honda 1000 VA, otherwise the 
generator would run for a minute or two and then trip on overload.

 

Doing the math on voltage drop in the wire, 10 AWG is around 1 ohm per 1000 
feet, and you have 350 feet of wire including hot and neutral.  So 0.35 ohm 
times 5.5 amps is 2 volts.  Assuming the generator is putting out 120 volts, 
that wouldn’t account for a 10 volt drop.

 

Sounds like you suspect the generator can’t handle the load and as a result is 
putting out low voltage.

 

What kind of generator is this?  Is it an inverter style?  What is the VA 
rating?  If it’s just a standard generator for power tools and stuff, a UPS 
will sometimes find the voltage or frequency out of spec or unstable and refuse 
to run off it.  If it’s just an APC UPS or something like that, sometimes they 
have a sensitivity setting that you can set lower.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:22 AM
To: AFMUG mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

 

So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged it 
all so that wing had nothing.

 

As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other 
phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains and 
the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and the UPS 
switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going on here.

 

I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two runs 
of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.


What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as simple as 
possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open choke.

 

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber jumper

[Carl Peterson]

I've seen a bunch of plastic ST connectors.  More common with MM but I've
seen them used for both.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:39 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> It does resemble ST, except for the color.  They're usually stainless.
> "Stab & Twist" is the mnemonic device for that.  Basically works like a BNC
> connector.
>
> ST = Stab & Twist
>
> SC = Stab and Click
>
> LC = Little connector
>
> FC is threaded.  If yours doesn't screw on then it's almost definitely
> ST.  If you order on the phone say "Sierra Tango" because ST and SC sound
> the same over the horn.
>
> I don't know if you can order cable with a female end, but your female end
> could be a mating sleeve like so:
>
> [image: ST Mating Sleeve | ST Simplex Mating Sleeve | ST Coupler]
>
>
>
> On 9/21/2020 12:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I don’t recognize it.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 10:07 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Fiber jumper
>
> Oh. All knowledgeable Borg,
> I need a 100 jumper to extend 6 fibers. I am sure it is single mode as it
> comes from a CO about 2 miles away. If I remember right it might be an ST
> connector. Can you guys verify the connector and anything else I would need
> to know to order something like this?
> Everything will be indoors but I want it rugged. Do it needs to be female
> on one end and make on the other.
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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>


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*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707
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Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[can...@believewireless.net]

I wouldn't pay recurring to any sales rep. They need to be hungry for the
next sale.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:42 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> This is for business.   Not residential.
>
> On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> > I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe I
> > am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that always
> > scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual gets so
> > high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great living so
> > they eventually stop selling and just work part time maintaining their
> > base and lifestyle.
> >
> > At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I
> > would either limit residual to some period of months and only extend it
> > if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.
> >
> > None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will
> > produce commission report for you.
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes
> >  > > wrote:
> >
> > I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5%
> > ongoing.
> >
> > I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making
> > more too.
> >
> > A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
> > Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for them
> > considering what they are bringing in.
> >
> >> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
> >>  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>  We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the
> >> monthly for that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We
> >> usually have term contracts so as to ensure the revenue stream
> >> over time since we're paying the commission up front. We haven't
> >> done a recurring commission yet.
> >> 
> >>
> >> *Jesse DuPont*
> >>
> >> Owner / Network Architect
> >> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> >> 
> >> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
> >> Like us! facebook.com/  >celeritynetworksllc
> >>
> >> Like us! facebook.com/ celeritybroadband
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >> On 9/20/20 8:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> >>> Does anyone have an excel sheet or other tracking method for a
> commissioned sales person they’d want to share, or share how you do it?
> >>>
> >>> We are hiring our first outside sales person. She has a base
> salary, but then gets bonuses based on closed sales, as well as recurring
> commission for accounts that stay.
> >>>
> >>> Trying to figure out the best way to track this.
> >>
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com 
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lewis Bergman
> > 325-439-0533 Cell
> >
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Adam Moffett]

If you have somebody who can actually make those sales then they're 
worth almost anything you can pay them.


On 9/21/2020 12:41 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

This is for business.   Not residential.

On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe 
I am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that 
always scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual 
gets so high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great 
living so they eventually stop selling and just work part time 
maintaining their base and lifestyle.


At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I 
would either limit residual to some period of months and only extend 
it if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.


None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will 
produce commission report for you.


On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes 
> wrote:


    I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5%
    ongoing.

    I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making
    more too.

    A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
    Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for them
    considering what they are bringing in.


    On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
    mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net>> wrote:

     We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the
    monthly for that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We
    usually have term contracts so as to ensure the revenue stream
    over time since we're paying the commission up front. We haven't
    done a recurring commission yet.
    

    *Jesse DuPont*

    Owner / Network Architect
    email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
    
    Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
    Like us! facebook.com/ 
celeritynetworksllc


    Like us! facebook.com/ celeritybroadband

    

    On 9/20/20 8:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
    Does anyone have an excel sheet or other tracking method for a 
commissioned sales person they’d want to share, or share how you do 
it?


    We are hiring our first outside sales person. She has a base 
salary, but then gets bonuses based on closed sales, as well as 
recurring commission for accounts that stay.


    Trying to figure out the best way to track this.



    --     AF mailing list
    AF@af.afmug.com 
    http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell





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Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Matt Hoppes]

This is for business.   Not residential.

On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe I 
am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that always 
scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual gets so 
high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great living so 
they eventually stop selling and just work part time maintaining their 
base and lifestyle.


At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I 
would either limit residual to some period of months and only extend it 
if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.


None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will 
produce commission report for you.


On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes 
> wrote:


I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5%
ongoing.

I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making
more too.

A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for them
considering what they are bringing in.


On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net>> wrote:

 We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the
monthly for that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We
usually have term contracts so as to ensure the revenue stream
over time since we're paying the commission up front. We haven't
done a recurring commission yet.


*Jesse DuPont*

Owner / Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net

Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/ celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/ celeritybroadband



On 9/20/20 8:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Does anyone have an excel sheet or other tracking method for a commissioned 
sales person they’d want to share, or share how you do it?

We are hiring our first outside sales person. She has a base salary, but 
then gets bonuses based on closed sales, as well as recurring commission for 
accounts that stay.

Trying to figure out the best way to track this.


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325-439-0533 Cell



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Re: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question

[chuck]

I have had AC coil relays get stuck closed with putting DC on them.  

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 10:30 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question

it will work fine

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 8:34 AM  wrote:

  Yes, some do.  Some will get magnitized if they are AC relays and you use DC 
  on them.

  -Original Message- 
  From: Nate Burke
  Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:29 AM
  To: Animal Farm
  Subject: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question

  The Specsheet for the 4 channel relay output unit says 1A@24VDC.  I want
  to control some HVAC Dampers that are running at 24VAC.  The Relay
  doesn't care if it's VAC or VDC right?

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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber jumper

[Adam Moffett]

It does resemble ST, except for the color.  They're usually stainless.  
"Stab & Twist" is the mnemonic device for that. Basically works like a 
BNC connector.


ST = Stab & Twist

SC = Stab and Click

LC = Little connector

FC is threaded.  If yours doesn't screw on then it's almost definitely 
ST.  If you order on the phone say "Sierra Tango" because ST and SC 
sound the same over the horn.


I don't know if you can order cable with a female end, but your female 
end could be a mating sleeve like so:


ST Mating Sleeve | ST Simplex Mating Sleeve | ST Coupler



On 9/21/2020 12:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I don’t recognize it.
*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 10:07 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Fiber jumper
Oh. All knowledgeable Borg,
I need a 100 jumper to extend 6 fibers. I am sure it is single mode as 
it comes from a CO about 2 miles away. If I remember right it might be 
an ST connector. Can you guys verify the connector and anything else I 
would need to know to order something like this?
Everything will be indoors but I want it rugged. Do it needs to be 
female on one end and make on the other.



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Re: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question

[TJ Trout]

it will work fine

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 8:34 AM  wrote:

> Yes, some do.  Some will get magnitized if they are AC relays and you use
> DC
> on them.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Nate Burke
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:29 AM
> To: Animal Farm
> Subject: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question
>
> The Specsheet for the 4 channel relay output unit says 1A@24VDC.  I want
> to control some HVAC Dampers that are running at 24VAC.  The Relay
> doesn't care if it's VAC or VDC right?
>
> --
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>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber jumper

[Lewis Bergman]

It pushes on and twists. I didn't realize I would take such a lousy
picture. It's like Jaime's before he got his new phone.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:27 AM  wrote:

> I don’t recognize it.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 10:07 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Fiber jumper
>
> Oh. All knowledgeable Borg,
> I need a 100 jumper to extend 6 fibers. I am sure it is single mode as it
> comes from a CO about 2 miles away. If I remember right it might be an ST
> connector. Can you guys verify the connector and anything else I would need
> to know to order something like this?
> Everything will be indoors but I want it rugged. Do it needs to be female
> on one end and make on the other.
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber jumper

[chuck]

I don’t recognize it.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 10:07 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber jumper

Oh. All knowledgeable Borg, 
I need a 100 jumper to extend 6 fibers. I am sure it is single mode as it comes 
from a CO about 2 miles away. If I remember right it might be an ST connector. 
Can you guys verify the connector and anything else I would need to know to 
order something like this?
Everything will be indoors but I want it rugged. Do it needs to be female on 
one end and make on the other. 



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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[TJ Trout]

or maybe the 110v side is overloaded, maybe try running @ 220

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 9:22 AM  wrote:

> Sounds like you have a carburetor issue.  Maybe some plugged up metering
> jets due to varnish.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 10:13 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>
> None of our generators or any one I've seen let's you adjust voltage.  The
> ones we have are all TroyBilt-ish with Briggs engines.
>
> The UPS did switch to the generator when I lowered the choke ~10%.  But it
> would not use the generator at full open and the generator sounded like it
> was bogging down.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:57 AM  wrote:
>
>> But engine speed will affect voltage.  At least on older units.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mark Radabaugh
>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:40 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>>
>> Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the
>> output voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just
>> crank
>> the generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note that
>> is
>> done by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine.
>> Engine speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional
>> generator, not a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)
>>
>> ark
>>
>> > On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman 
>>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They
>> unplugged
>> > it all so that wing had nothing.
>> >
>> > As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the
>> other
>> > phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator
>> complains
>> > and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke
>> and
>> > the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's
>> going
>> > on here.
>> >
>> > I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator,
>> two
>> > runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
>> >
>> > What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as
>> > simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full
>> open
>> > choke.
>> >
>> > Josh Luthman
>> > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>> > 1100 Wayne St
>> > Suite 1337
>> > Troy, OH 45373
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[chuck]

Sounds like you have a carburetor issue.  Maybe some plugged up metering jets 
due to varnish.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 10:13 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

None of our generators or any one I've seen let's you adjust voltage.  The ones 
we have are all TroyBilt-ish with Briggs engines. 

The UPS did switch to the generator when I lowered the choke ~10%.  But it 
would not use the generator at full open and the generator sounded like it was 
bogging down.


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:57 AM  wrote:

  But engine speed will affect voltage.  At least on older units.

  -Original Message- 
  From: Mark Radabaugh
  Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:40 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

  Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the 
  output voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just crank 
  the generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note that is 
  done by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine. 
  Engine speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional 
  generator, not a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)

  ark

  > On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman  
  > wrote:
  >
  > So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged 
  > it all so that wing had nothing.
  >
  > As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other 
  > phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains 
  > and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and 
  > the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going 
  > on here.
  >
  > I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two 
  > runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
  >
  > What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as 
  > simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open 
  > choke.
  >
  > Josh Luthman
  > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  > Direct: 937-552-2343
  > 1100 Wayne St
  > Suite 1337
  > Troy, OH 45373
  > -- 
  > AF mailing list
  > AF@af.afmug.com
  > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Lewis Bergman]

I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe I am
greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that always
scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual gets so high
they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great living so they
eventually stop selling and just work part time maintaining their base and
lifestyle.

At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I would
either limit residual to some period of months and only extend it if they
both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.

None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will
produce commission report for you.

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5% ongoing.
>
> I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making more
> too.
>
> A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person. Insignificant
> to the company, but massive potential for them considering what they are
> bringing in.
>
> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont 
> wrote:
>
>  We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the monthly
> for that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We usually have term
> contracts so as to ensure the revenue stream over time since we're paying
> the commission up front. We haven't done a recurring commission yet.
> 
>
> *Jesse DuPont*
>
> Owner / Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>
> 
>
>
> On 9/20/20 8:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>
> Does anyone have an excel sheet or other tracking method for a commissioned 
> sales person they’d want to share, or share how you do it?
>
> We are hiring our first outside sales person. She has a base salary, but then 
> gets bonuses based on closed sales, as well as recurring commission for 
> accounts that stay.
>
> Trying to figure out the best way to track this.
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

None of our generators or any one I've seen let's you adjust voltage.  The
ones we have are all TroyBilt-ish with Briggs engines.

The UPS did switch to the generator when I lowered the choke ~10%.  But it
would not use the generator at full open and the generator sounded like it
was bogging down.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:57 AM  wrote:

> But engine speed will affect voltage.  At least on older units.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Radabaugh
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:40 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>
> Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the
> output voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just
> crank
> the generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note that
> is
> done by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine.
> Engine speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional
> generator, not a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)
>
> ark
>
> > On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman 
>
> > wrote:
> >
> > So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They
> unplugged
> > it all so that wing had nothing.
> >
> > As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the
> other
> > phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains
> > and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke
> and
> > the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's
> going
> > on here.
> >
> > I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator,
> two
> > runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
> >
> > What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as
> > simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full
> open
> > choke.
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

[Ken Hohhof]

I can’t comment specifically on DC direct power to an Aviat radio.  Most 802.3 
POE powered radios are in fact floating and don’t care, but I’m not sure about 
the direct DC input.

 

As far as does one radio dictate how you power everything else?  No, but it 
does complicate things.  I have a site that was built with Eltek -48 VDC 
because we had a Purewave WiMax basestation which required -48V DC direct 
power.  We had several things like Mikrotik, Packetflux, Cambium and Ubiquiti 
that needed +24, so we have a Traco DC-DC converted that generates +24 from the 
-48  Actually it just generates 24 volts floating and we connect the – side to 
ground.  Then we got rid of the Purewave and replaced it with Cambiumj 450i 
which needs +48 (or +56), so we added a Mean Well DC-DC converter to give us 
+48.  So now we have -48, +24 and +48 in the same enclosure, each with their 
own bank of dual level DIN rail fuses for distribution.  The DC-DC converters 
are relatively small DIN rail supplies, so all of this takes us less room than 
it sounds like.

 

Actually we now feed this site with an 11 GHz PTP820S, and we used one of the 
DC powered POE injectors that can take + or – 24 or 48 volts, connected to the 
Eltek -48V.  Could have also used a Cat6-POE-APC off the +48V rail.  At some 
point we will probably switch to a +48V battery system since we don’t 
specifically need -48 anymore.  But this should demonstrate that you can have 
all sorts of DC voltages at a site, some with the + side connected to ground, 
some with the – side connected to ground.  You just need to keep your 
documentation straight.  The most complicated thing is probably choosing wire 
colors.  I use a lot of red/black zip cord so I’ve just accepted that red is + 
and black is – and you can’t make assumptions about which side is grounded.  
You could make a different decision and red is always hot and black is always 
ground.  Or don’t use zip cord and buy lots of colors of wire.  For awhile I 
was doing stuff like blue was -48 and red was +24 and yellow was +48 and orange 
was from the charger to the batteries and it got really confusing.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 10:07 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

 

I run WTM4200's off of +48VDC plants.  Reach out to Ken Ruppel if you want/need 
more details.

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:05 AM Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

These are wtm4200. He told me the connector in the radio bonds + to ground at 
the radio. Could be wrong. I'm outside my wheelhouse anyway with this being our 
first direct dc radios.

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 10:00 AM Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I should have said -- at least the WTM4200 and WTM4800, both of which I have 
used.

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:59 AM Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Aviat radios don't bond + or - to the chassis.  You can run them at -48VDC or 
+48VDC.

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:45 AM Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

So, like on these aviats, my contractor says they're -48v, but the connector in 
the radio bonds to ground. Does that mean my whole site has to have -48v or 
just radios powered by that particular psu?

 

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 8:59 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Now if we could get the manufacturers to be less secretive about their POE 
schemes.  They mostly want you to use their POE device and don’t want to 
document the pinouts or explain if it matters which side is referenced to 
ground.

 

Mostly I find that using a Cat6-POE-APC with the jumpers as set at the factory 
and + and – hooked up per the markings works.  Which is basically 802.3at.  It 
works with the – side grounded, I suspect it would also work with the + side 
grounded, or neither.  I was hesitant to use this on a PTP820 but it works 
fine.  I don’t know why they make their POE scheme sound so mysterious.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Josh Baird
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 8:44 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

 

Yep - great explanation!

 

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 4:55 PM Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

You have a power supply, say a 6 volt car battery.  You connect a pair of 
headlights to it with two wires. All is well.  

 

Now you start building cars.  And you are going to wire up the headlights.  
Someone points out that you can save some money on wiring by using the car 
chassis instead if one of the wires.

 

You decide to run the positive connection from the battery to the headlights 
with wire and return the current via the car’s chassis.  

 

Now you have turned a 6 volt electrical system into a +6 volt system.  If you 
reverse the battery and connect the + side to the chassis and run the wire from 
the 

Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[chuck]

But engine speed will affect voltage.  At least on older units.

-Original Message- 
From: Mark Radabaugh

Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:40 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the 
output voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just crank 
the generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note that is 
done by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine. 
Engine speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional 
generator, not a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)


ark

On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:


So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged 
it all so that wing had nothing.


As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other 
phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains 
and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and 
the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going 
on here.


I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two 
runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.


What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as 
simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open 
choke.


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Mark Radabaugh]

Not sure what the generator is but most have the ability to adjust the output 
voltage and frequency.   If you have the option you could just crank the 
generator output voltage up enough to make the UPS happy.   Note that is done 
by adjusting the excitation voltage, not the speed of the engine.   Engine 
speed changes frequency.  (All of this assumes a traditional generator, not 
a inverter style generator like the small Honda’s)

 ark

> On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Josh Luthman  
> wrote:
> 
> So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged it 
> all so that wing had nothing.
> 
> As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other 
> phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains and 
> the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and the UPS 
> switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going on here.
> 
> I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two 
> runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
> 
> What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as simple 
> as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open choke.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

[Mathew Howard]

My guess is that it's just the connector shield that's tied to ground,
which doesn't matter if it isn't tied to + or -, but I'd still check it
with a meter.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:22 AM  wrote:

> I would double check the radio.  Power them with 48 volts, make sure they
> are not touching anything grounded, then check each side of the power leads
> to the chassis.  If there is not 48 volts reading on either side then it is
> a floating load.
>
> You mention the connector bonds to ground.  What does it bond to ground?
> If it is a –48 radio then you will find that the chassis to the – power
> terminal will read 48 volts.
>
> If it truly is a –48 load, you will have to insulate it from ground or
> power it from a –48 power supply or its own floating 48 volt power supply.
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 8:44 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>
> So, like on these aviats, my contractor says they're -48v, but the
> connector in the radio bonds to ground. Does that mean my whole site has to
> have -48v or just radios powered by that particular psu?
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 8:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Now if we could get the manufacturers to be less secretive about their
>> POE schemes.  They mostly want you to use their POE device and don’t want
>> to document the pinouts or explain if it matters which side is referenced
>> to ground.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mostly I find that using a Cat6-POE-APC with the jumpers as set at the
>> factory and + and – hooked up per the markings works.  Which is basically
>> 802.3at.  It works with the – side grounded, I suspect it would also work
>> with the + side grounded, or neither.  I was hesitant to use this on a
>> PTP820 but it works fine.  I don’t know why they make their POE scheme
>> sound so mysterious.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 8:44 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>>
>>
>>
>> Yep - great explanation!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 4:55 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> You have a power supply, say a 6 volt car battery.  You connect a pair of
>> headlights to it with two wires. All is well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now you start building cars.  And you are going to wire up the
>> headlights.  Someone points out that you can save some money on wiring by
>> using the car chassis instead if one of the wires.
>>
>>
>>
>> You decide to run the positive connection from the battery to the
>> headlights with wire and return the current via the car’s chassis.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now you have turned a 6 volt electrical system into a +6 volt system.  If
>> you reverse the battery and connect the + side to the chassis and run the
>> wire from the negative post to the headlights , it will still work fine.
>> The headlights don’t care.  Now you have a -6 volt electrical system.
>>
>>
>>
>> The headlights don’t care but the radio does.  Most radios expect the
>> chassis to be negative and their power wire to be positive.  You can
>> “float” the radio by mounting it on an insulator and connecting its power
>> wire to the car’s chases and the chassis of the radio to the negative wire
>> going to the battery.  A bit dangerous but I have had to do this at times.
>>
>>
>>
>> Oh, and the car is an early VW.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 20, 2020, at 2:19 PM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I still cant comprehend any of this. I'm just dumb when it comes to it
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:51 PM  wrote:
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:48 PM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>>
>>
>>
>> It's just a simple 48 to 12v converter to feed the mikrotik. I tested
>> with a ict +48 supply and the 12v comes out fine, I'm 99% sure it will work
>> on the wood bench, and about 90% sure it will work in a rack.
>>
>>
>>
>> If it was true -48 I would assume the + terminal would be bonded with
>> chassis ground?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 12:45 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>> I think some of my devices have the chassis ground bonded with the
>> negative input terminals, I discovered this
>> because I am running a telecom rectifier shelf designed for -48 on a +48
>> system because it's floating, but this
>> causes the + output to not be fused, so I practiced arc welding once.
>>
>> Strange, didn't know the 1100 had dc input, but it looks floating though
>> (per specs -48, 12-57 V)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:40 PM  wrote:
>>
>> I don’t think I have ever seen a true +48 load.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:29 PM
>>
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>>
>>
>>
>> Different situation, but I have several sites with 1100ahx4 powered 

Re: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question

[chuck]

Yes, some do.  Some will get magnitized if they are AC relays and you use DC 
on them.


-Original Message- 
From: Nate Burke

Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:29 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question

The Specsheet for the 4 channel relay output unit says 1A@24VDC.  I want
to control some HVAC Dampers that are running at 24VAC.  The Relay
doesn't care if it's VAC or VDC right?

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[AFMUG] Site Monitor Relay Question

[Nate Burke]

The Specsheet for the 4 channel relay output unit says 1A@24VDC.  I want 
to control some HVAC Dampers that are running at 24VAC.  The Relay 
doesn't care if it's VAC or VDC right?


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Re: [AFMUG] Next project

[chuck]

That would be fun, I think the deepest point on the lake is something like 30 
feet deep.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Next project

A sub to see how many cars are at the bottom of the salt lake cause of drunks 
watching slc punk and thinking theyll float

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 9:59 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

  It's an escape capsule for the Starship.

  We will have to blow a few up to be sure they work.



bp
On 9/20/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

In the on deck circle.  You guess.  Will post progress photos.


 
Sent from my iPhone
 
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Re: [AFMUG] Next project

[chuck]

No, I never do fun projects...

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 8:55 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Next project

Go cart? 


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 7:28 AM Robert  wrote:

  Steam rocket to find out if the world is flat..  Oh, sorry, that was done 
already...


  On 9/21/20 4:59 AM, can...@believewireless.net wrote:

MOAB?

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 8:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  In the on deck circle.  You guess.  Will post progress photos.



  Sent from my iPhone-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

[chuck]

I would double check the radio.  Power them with 48 volts, make sure they are 
not touching anything grounded, then check each side of the power leads to the 
chassis.  If there is not 48 volts reading on either side then it is a floating 
load.  

You mention the connector bonds to ground.  What does it bond to ground?
If it is a –48 radio then you will find that the chassis to the – power 
terminal will read 48 volts.  

If it truly is a –48 load, you will have to insulate it from ground or power it 
from a –48 power supply or its own floating 48 volt power supply.


From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 8:44 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

So, like on these aviats, my contractor says they're -48v, but the connector in 
the radio bonds to ground. Does that mean my whole site has to have -48v or 
just radios powered by that particular psu?

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 8:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Now if we could get the manufacturers to be less secretive about their POE 
schemes.  They mostly want you to use their POE device and don’t want to 
document the pinouts or explain if it matters which side is referenced to 
ground.



  Mostly I find that using a Cat6-POE-APC with the jumpers as set at the 
factory and + and – hooked up per the markings works.  Which is basically 
802.3at.  It works with the – side grounded, I suspect it would also work with 
the + side grounded, or neither.  I was hesitant to use this on a PTP820 but it 
works fine.  I don’t know why they make their POE scheme sound so mysterious.





  From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Baird
  Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 8:44 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)



  Yep - great explanation!



  On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 4:55 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

You have a power supply, say a 6 volt car battery.  You connect a pair of 
headlights to it with two wires. All is well.  



Now you start building cars.  And you are going to wire up the headlights.  
Someone points out that you can save some money on wiring by using the car 
chassis instead if one of the wires.



You decide to run the positive connection from the battery to the 
headlights with wire and return the current via the car’s chassis.  



Now you have turned a 6 volt electrical system into a +6 volt system.  If 
you reverse the battery and connect the + side to the chassis and run the wire 
from the negative post to the headlights , it will still work fine.  The 
headlights don’t care.  Now you have a -6 volt electrical system. 



The headlights don’t care but the radio does.  Most radios expect the 
chassis to be negative and their power wire to be positive.  You can “float” 
the radio by mounting it on an insulator and connecting its power wire to the 
car’s chases and the chassis of the radio to the negative wire going to the 
battery.  A bit dangerous but I have had to do this at times.



Oh, and the car is an early VW.

Sent from my iPhone





  On Sep 20, 2020, at 2:19 PM, Steve Jones  
wrote:

  

  I still cant comprehend any of this. I'm just dumb when it comes to it 



  On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:51 PM  wrote:

Yes.



From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:48 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)



It's just a simple 48 to 12v converter to feed the mikrotik. I tested 
with a ict +48 supply and the 12v comes out fine, I'm 99% sure it will work on 
the wood bench, and about 90% sure it will work in a rack.  



If it was true -48 I would assume the + terminal would be bonded with 
chassis ground?



On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 12:45 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

  I think some of my devices have the chassis ground bonded with the 
negative input terminals, I discovered this
  because I am running a telecom rectifier shelf designed for -48 on a 
+48 system because it's floating, but this
  causes the + output to not be fused, so I practiced arc welding once.

  Strange, didn't know the 1100 had dc input, but it looks floating 
though (per specs -48, 12-57 V)






  On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:40 PM  wrote:

I don’t think I have ever seen a true +48 load.  



From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:29 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)



Different situation, but I have several sites with 1100ahx4 powered 
with +48, even though Mikrotik says they take -48.  I suspect you will find the 
same to be true on the CCR.



Connect the – terminal to ground and the + terminal to +48, 
obviously you don’t want to apply reverse polarity by trying to connect +48 to 
the -48 terminal.

Re: [AFMUG] Next project

[Steve Jones]

A sub to see how many cars are at the bottom of the salt lake cause of
drunks watching slc punk and thinking theyll float

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 9:59 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> It's an escape capsule for the Starship.
>
> We will have to blow a few up to be sure they work.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 9/20/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> In the on deck circle.  You guess.  Will post progress photos.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Josh Luthman]

Sales guy gets 5% or $18/mo no one bats an eye.

Software that controls the entire functionality of the business and at $1
people riot.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 11:09 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Include upsells and add-ons in your plan.  Theoretically a salesperson who
> follows up regularly can greatly increase ARPU, especially if you sell more
> than just Internet.  If they’re thinking about getting a VoIP phone system
> or signing a computer/network maintenance contract or buying security
> cameras, a call from your salesperson could swing that sale to you instead
> of somewhere like Geek Squad.  Salesperson should get compensation for that.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 20, 2020 9:38 AM
> *To:* Jesse DuPont 
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales
>
>
>
> I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5% ongoing.
>
>
>
> I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making more
> too.
>
>
>
> A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person. Insignificant
> to the company, but massive potential for them considering what they are
> bringing in.
>
>
>
> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont 
> wrote:
>
>  We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the
> monthly for that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We usually
> have term contracts so as to ensure the revenue stream over time since
> we're paying the commission up front. We haven't done a recurring
> commission yet.
>
> 
>
> *Jesse DuPont*
>
> Owner / Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>
> 
>
> On 9/20/20 8:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>
> Does anyone have an excel sheet or other tracking method for a commissioned 
> sales person they’d want to share, or share how you do it?
>
>
>
> We are hiring our first outside sales person. She has a base salary, but then 
> gets bonuses based on closed sales, as well as recurring commission for 
> accounts that stay.
>
>
>
> Trying to figure out the best way to track this.
>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

[Josh Baird]

I run WTM4200's off of +48VDC plants.  Reach out to Ken Ruppel if you
want/need more details.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:05 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> These are wtm4200. He told me the connector in the radio bonds + to ground
> at the radio. Could be wrong. I'm outside my wheelhouse anyway with this
> being our first direct dc radios.
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 10:00 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> I should have said -- at least the WTM4200 and WTM4800, both of which I
>> have used.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:59 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>>> Aviat radios don't bond + or - to the chassis.  You can run them at
>>> -48VDC or +48VDC.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:45 AM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 So, like on these aviats, my contractor says they're -48v, but the
 connector in the radio bonds to ground. Does that mean my whole site has to
 have -48v or just radios powered by that particular psu?

 On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 8:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Now if we could get the manufacturers to be less secretive about their
> POE schemes.  They mostly want you to use their POE device and don’t want
> to document the pinouts or explain if it matters which side is referenced
> to ground.
>
>
>
> Mostly I find that using a Cat6-POE-APC with the jumpers as set at the
> factory and + and – hooked up per the markings works.  Which is basically
> 802.3at.  It works with the – side grounded, I suspect it would also work
> with the + side grounded, or neither.  I was hesitant to use this on a
> PTP820 but it works fine.  I don’t know why they make their POE scheme
> sound so mysterious.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 8:44 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>
>
>
> Yep - great explanation!
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 4:55 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> You have a power supply, say a 6 volt car battery.  You connect a pair
> of headlights to it with two wires. All is well.
>
>
>
> Now you start building cars.  And you are going to wire up the
> headlights.  Someone points out that you can save some money on wiring by
> using the car chassis instead if one of the wires.
>
>
>
> You decide to run the positive connection from the battery to the
> headlights with wire and return the current via the car’s chassis.
>
>
>
> Now you have turned a 6 volt electrical system into a +6 volt system.
> If you reverse the battery and connect the + side to the chassis and run
> the wire from the negative post to the headlights , it will still work
> fine.  The headlights don’t care.  Now you have a -6 volt electrical
> system.
>
>
>
>  The headlights don’t care but the radio does.  Most radios expect the
> chassis to be negative and their power wire to be positive.  You can
> “float” the radio by mounting it on an insulator and connecting its power
> wire to the car’s chases and the chassis of the radio to the negative wire
> going to the battery.  A bit dangerous but I have had to do this at times.
>
>
>
> Oh, and the car is an early VW.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Sep 20, 2020, at 2:19 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> I still cant comprehend any of this. I'm just dumb when it comes to it
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:51 PM  wrote:
>
> Yes.
>
>
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:48 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>
>
>
> It's just a simple 48 to 12v converter to feed the mikrotik. I tested
> with a ict +48 supply and the 12v comes out fine, I'm 99% sure it will 
> work
> on the wood bench, and about 90% sure it will work in a rack.
>
>
>
> If it was true -48 I would assume the + terminal would be bonded with
> chassis ground?
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 12:45 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
> I think some of my devices have the chassis ground bonded with the
> negative input terminals, I discovered this
> because I am running a telecom rectifier shelf designed for -48 on a
> +48 system because it's floating, but this
> causes the + output to not be fused, so I practiced arc welding once.
>
> Strange, didn't know the 1100 had dc input, but it looks floating
> though (per specs -48, 12-57 V)
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:40 PM  wrote:
>
> I don’t think I have ever seen a true +48 load.
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:29 PM
>
> *To:* 

Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

I set mine to low when I install them due to that same post I've seen over
the years.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:00 AM Larry Smith  wrote:

> We had to set the sensitivity (sp?) setting on all our APC
> UPS to medium (drop from default of HIGH) or they would
> not accept the generator current (would stay on battery).
>
> --
> Larry Smith
> lesm...@ecsis.net
>
> On Mon September 21 2020 09:43, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > 110v at the generator or the other end of the 175 feet of 10 AWG wire?
> >
> >
> >
> > And total load is 5-6 amps each including the UPS charging the
> batteries?
> > What kind of UPS?  Something like an APC will have a relatively low
> > charging current, other setups may be quite a bit higher.  I know our
> Alpha
> > UPS units have programmable charging current and I had to lower it in
> case
> > the only generator I have available is our smallest Honda 1000 VA,
> > otherwise the generator would run for a minute or two and then trip on
> > overload.
> >
> >
> >
> > Doing the math on voltage drop in the wire, 10 AWG is around 1 ohm per
> 1000
> > feet, and you have 350 feet of wire including hot and neutral.  So 0.35
> ohm
> > times 5.5 amps is 2 volts.  Assuming the generator is putting out 120
> > volts, that wouldn’t account for a 10 volt drop.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sounds like you suspect the generator can’t handle the load and as a
> result
> > is putting out low voltage.
> >
> >
> >
> > What kind of generator is this?  Is it an inverter style?  What is the VA
> > rating?  If it’s just a standard generator for power tools and stuff, a
> UPS
> > will sometimes find the voltage or frequency out of spec or unstable and
> > refuse to run off it.  If it’s just an APC UPS or something like that,
> > sometimes they have a sensitivity setting that you can set lower.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:22 AM
> > To: AFMUG 
> > Subject: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
> >
> >
> >
> > So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They
> unplugged
> > it all so that wing had nothing.
> >
> >
> >
> > As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other
> > phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains
> > and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and
> > the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's
> going
> > on here.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator,
> two
> > runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
> >
> >
> > What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as
> simple
> > as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open choke.
> >
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

Before the UPS units were plugged in, it ran just fine.  Once they were
plugged in it sounded like it was struggling/running out of gas - this was
resolved by closing the choke a little bit.  Do you think that's a
frequency problem?

110vac at the UPS.  I didn't measure what was coming out of the generator.

6 amps per UPS load.  It charges very slowly so maybe 7-8 amps.  Still,
well within the 20 amp circuit limit.  Generator has a 220v 30 amp plug as
well.  It's an 8500w unit.  This is it:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Troy-Bilt-6250-8500-Watt-Gasoline-Portable-Generator-with-Briggs-Stratton-Engine/4732729

UPS is two 1500va APC- Smart UPS 1500VA.  It's an OLDER version of this:
https://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-SMX1500RM2U-1500VA-System/dp/B002TIR2Z2/

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:44 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> 110v at the generator or the other end of the 175 feet of 10 AWG wire?
>
>
>
> And total load is 5-6 amps each including the UPS charging the batteries?
> What kind of UPS?  Something like an APC will have a relatively low
> charging current, other setups may be quite a bit higher.  I know our Alpha
> UPS units have programmable charging current and I had to lower it in case
> the only generator I have available is our smallest Honda 1000 VA,
> otherwise the generator would run for a minute or two and then trip on
> overload.
>
>
>
> Doing the math on voltage drop in the wire, 10 AWG is around 1 ohm per
> 1000 feet, and you have 350 feet of wire including hot and neutral.  So
> 0.35 ohm times 5.5 amps is 2 volts.  Assuming the generator is putting out
> 120 volts, that wouldn’t account for a 10 volt drop.
>
>
>
> Sounds like you suspect the generator can’t handle the load and as a
> result is putting out low voltage.
>
>
>
> What kind of generator is this?  Is it an inverter style?  What is the VA
> rating?  If it’s just a standard generator for power tools and stuff, a UPS
> will sometimes find the voltage or frequency out of spec or unstable and
> refuse to run off it.  If it’s just an APC UPS or something like that,
> sometimes they have a sensitivity setting that you can set lower.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 9:22 AM
> *To:* AFMUG 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>
>
>
> So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged
> it all so that wing had nothing.
>
>
>
> As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other
> phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains
> and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and
> the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going
> on here.
>
>
>
> I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two
> runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
>
>
> What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as
> simple as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open
> choke.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

[Steve Jones]

These are wtm4200. He told me the connector in the radio bonds + to ground
at the radio. Could be wrong. I'm outside my wheelhouse anyway with this
being our first direct dc radios.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 10:00 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

> I should have said -- at least the WTM4200 and WTM4800, both of which I
> have used.
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:59 AM Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> Aviat radios don't bond + or - to the chassis.  You can run them at
>> -48VDC or +48VDC.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:45 AM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So, like on these aviats, my contractor says they're -48v, but the
>>> connector in the radio bonds to ground. Does that mean my whole site has to
>>> have -48v or just radios powered by that particular psu?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 8:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
 Now if we could get the manufacturers to be less secretive about their
 POE schemes.  They mostly want you to use their POE device and don’t want
 to document the pinouts or explain if it matters which side is referenced
 to ground.



 Mostly I find that using a Cat6-POE-APC with the jumpers as set at the
 factory and + and – hooked up per the markings works.  Which is basically
 802.3at.  It works with the – side grounded, I suspect it would also work
 with the + side grounded, or neither.  I was hesitant to use this on a
 PTP820 but it works fine.  I don’t know why they make their POE scheme
 sound so mysterious.





 *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
 *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 8:44 AM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)



 Yep - great explanation!



 On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 4:55 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

 You have a power supply, say a 6 volt car battery.  You connect a pair
 of headlights to it with two wires. All is well.



 Now you start building cars.  And you are going to wire up the
 headlights.  Someone points out that you can save some money on wiring by
 using the car chassis instead if one of the wires.



 You decide to run the positive connection from the battery to the
 headlights with wire and return the current via the car’s chassis.



 Now you have turned a 6 volt electrical system into a +6 volt system.
 If you reverse the battery and connect the + side to the chassis and run
 the wire from the negative post to the headlights , it will still work
 fine.  The headlights don’t care.  Now you have a -6 volt electrical
 system.



  The headlights don’t care but the radio does.  Most radios expect the
 chassis to be negative and their power wire to be positive.  You can
 “float” the radio by mounting it on an insulator and connecting its power
 wire to the car’s chases and the chassis of the radio to the negative wire
 going to the battery.  A bit dangerous but I have had to do this at times.



 Oh, and the car is an early VW.

 Sent from my iPhone



 On Sep 20, 2020, at 2:19 PM, Steve Jones 
 wrote:

 

 I still cant comprehend any of this. I'm just dumb when it comes to it



 On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:51 PM  wrote:

 Yes.



 *From:* TJ Trout

 *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:48 PM

 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)



 It's just a simple 48 to 12v converter to feed the mikrotik. I tested
 with a ict +48 supply and the 12v comes out fine, I'm 99% sure it will work
 on the wood bench, and about 90% sure it will work in a rack.



 If it was true -48 I would assume the + terminal would be bonded with
 chassis ground?



 On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 12:45 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

 I think some of my devices have the chassis ground bonded with the
 negative input terminals, I discovered this
 because I am running a telecom rectifier shelf designed for -48 on a
 +48 system because it's floating, but this
 causes the + output to not be fused, so I practiced arc welding once.

 Strange, didn't know the 1100 had dc input, but it looks floating
 though (per specs -48, 12-57 V)




 On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:40 PM  wrote:

 I don’t think I have ever seen a true +48 load.



 *From:* Ken Hohhof

 *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:29 PM

 *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)



 Different situation, but I have several sites with 1100ahx4 powered
 with +48, even though Mikrotik says they take -48.  I suspect you will find
 the same to be true on the CCR.

Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Larry Smith]

We had to set the sensitivity (sp?) setting on all our APC
UPS to medium (drop from default of HIGH) or they would
not accept the generator current (would stay on battery).

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Mon September 21 2020 09:43, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> 110v at the generator or the other end of the 175 feet of 10 AWG wire?
>
>
>
> And total load is 5-6 amps each including the UPS charging the batteries? 
> What kind of UPS?  Something like an APC will have a relatively low
> charging current, other setups may be quite a bit higher.  I know our Alpha
> UPS units have programmable charging current and I had to lower it in case
> the only generator I have available is our smallest Honda 1000 VA,
> otherwise the generator would run for a minute or two and then trip on
> overload.
>
>
>
> Doing the math on voltage drop in the wire, 10 AWG is around 1 ohm per 1000
> feet, and you have 350 feet of wire including hot and neutral.  So 0.35 ohm
> times 5.5 amps is 2 volts.  Assuming the generator is putting out 120
> volts, that wouldn’t account for a 10 volt drop.
>
>
>
> Sounds like you suspect the generator can’t handle the load and as a result
> is putting out low voltage.
>
>
>
> What kind of generator is this?  Is it an inverter style?  What is the VA
> rating?  If it’s just a standard generator for power tools and stuff, a UPS
> will sometimes find the voltage or frequency out of spec or unstable and
> refuse to run off it.  If it’s just an APC UPS or something like that,
> sometimes they have a sensitivity setting that you can set lower.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:22 AM
> To: AFMUG 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions
>
>
>
> So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged
> it all so that wing had nothing.
>
>
>
> As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other
> phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains
> and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and
> the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going
> on here.
>
>
>
> I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two
> runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
>
>
> What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as simple
> as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open choke.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373

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Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

[Josh Baird]

Aviat radios don't bond + or - to the chassis.  You can run them at -48VDC
or +48VDC.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:45 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> So, like on these aviats, my contractor says they're -48v, but the
> connector in the radio bonds to ground. Does that mean my whole site has to
> have -48v or just radios powered by that particular psu?
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 8:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Now if we could get the manufacturers to be less secretive about their
>> POE schemes.  They mostly want you to use their POE device and don’t want
>> to document the pinouts or explain if it matters which side is referenced
>> to ground.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mostly I find that using a Cat6-POE-APC with the jumpers as set at the
>> factory and + and – hooked up per the markings works.  Which is basically
>> 802.3at.  It works with the – side grounded, I suspect it would also work
>> with the + side grounded, or neither.  I was hesitant to use this on a
>> PTP820 but it works fine.  I don’t know why they make their POE scheme
>> sound so mysterious.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 8:44 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>>
>>
>>
>> Yep - great explanation!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 4:55 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> You have a power supply, say a 6 volt car battery.  You connect a pair of
>> headlights to it with two wires. All is well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now you start building cars.  And you are going to wire up the
>> headlights.  Someone points out that you can save some money on wiring by
>> using the car chassis instead if one of the wires.
>>
>>
>>
>> You decide to run the positive connection from the battery to the
>> headlights with wire and return the current via the car’s chassis.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now you have turned a 6 volt electrical system into a +6 volt system.  If
>> you reverse the battery and connect the + side to the chassis and run the
>> wire from the negative post to the headlights , it will still work fine.
>> The headlights don’t care.  Now you have a -6 volt electrical system.
>>
>>
>>
>>  The headlights don’t care but the radio does.  Most radios expect the
>> chassis to be negative and their power wire to be positive.  You can
>> “float” the radio by mounting it on an insulator and connecting its power
>> wire to the car’s chases and the chassis of the radio to the negative wire
>> going to the battery.  A bit dangerous but I have had to do this at times.
>>
>>
>>
>> Oh, and the car is an early VW.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 20, 2020, at 2:19 PM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I still cant comprehend any of this. I'm just dumb when it comes to it
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:51 PM  wrote:
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:48 PM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>>
>>
>>
>> It's just a simple 48 to 12v converter to feed the mikrotik. I tested
>> with a ict +48 supply and the 12v comes out fine, I'm 99% sure it will work
>> on the wood bench, and about 90% sure it will work in a rack.
>>
>>
>>
>> If it was true -48 I would assume the + terminal would be bonded with
>> chassis ground?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 12:45 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>> I think some of my devices have the chassis ground bonded with the
>> negative input terminals, I discovered this
>> because I am running a telecom rectifier shelf designed for -48 on a +48
>> system because it's floating, but this
>> causes the + output to not be fused, so I practiced arc welding once.
>>
>> Strange, didn't know the 1100 had dc input, but it looks floating though
>> (per specs -48, 12-57 V)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:40 PM  wrote:
>>
>> I don’t think I have ever seen a true +48 load.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:29 PM
>>
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>>
>>
>>
>> Different situation, but I have several sites with 1100ahx4 powered with
>> +48, even though Mikrotik says they take -48.  I suspect you will find the
>> same to be true on the CCR.
>>
>>
>>
>> Connect the – terminal to ground and the + terminal to +48, obviously you
>> don’t want to apply reverse polarity by trying to connect +48 to the -48
>> terminal.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have some ccr1009 and ccr1036 but they are all AC powered, and I have
>> no ccr1072, so I can’t answer your exact question.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 2:19 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>>
>>
>>
>> So I have a handful of ccr1072's that I want to run on our +48v plant,
>> mikrotik sells a '-48v telecom' power supply and they insist it's not
>> compatible with +48v. I 

Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

[Josh Baird]

I should have said -- at least the WTM4200 and WTM4800, both of which I
have used.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:59 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

> Aviat radios don't bond + or - to the chassis.  You can run them at -48VDC
> or +48VDC.
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:45 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> So, like on these aviats, my contractor says they're -48v, but the
>> connector in the radio bonds to ground. Does that mean my whole site has to
>> have -48v or just radios powered by that particular psu?
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 8:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> Now if we could get the manufacturers to be less secretive about their
>>> POE schemes.  They mostly want you to use their POE device and don’t want
>>> to document the pinouts or explain if it matters which side is referenced
>>> to ground.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mostly I find that using a Cat6-POE-APC with the jumpers as set at the
>>> factory and + and – hooked up per the markings works.  Which is basically
>>> 802.3at.  It works with the – side grounded, I suspect it would also work
>>> with the + side grounded, or neither.  I was hesitant to use this on a
>>> PTP820 but it works fine.  I don’t know why they make their POE scheme
>>> sound so mysterious.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
>>> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 8:44 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yep - great explanation!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 4:55 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> You have a power supply, say a 6 volt car battery.  You connect a pair
>>> of headlights to it with two wires. All is well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now you start building cars.  And you are going to wire up the
>>> headlights.  Someone points out that you can save some money on wiring by
>>> using the car chassis instead if one of the wires.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You decide to run the positive connection from the battery to the
>>> headlights with wire and return the current via the car’s chassis.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now you have turned a 6 volt electrical system into a +6 volt system.
>>> If you reverse the battery and connect the + side to the chassis and run
>>> the wire from the negative post to the headlights , it will still work
>>> fine.  The headlights don’t care.  Now you have a -6 volt electrical
>>> system.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  The headlights don’t care but the radio does.  Most radios expect the
>>> chassis to be negative and their power wire to be positive.  You can
>>> “float” the radio by mounting it on an insulator and connecting its power
>>> wire to the car’s chases and the chassis of the radio to the negative wire
>>> going to the battery.  A bit dangerous but I have had to do this at times.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, and the car is an early VW.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 20, 2020, at 2:19 PM, Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> I still cant comprehend any of this. I'm just dumb when it comes to it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:51 PM  wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* TJ Trout
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:48 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's just a simple 48 to 12v converter to feed the mikrotik. I tested
>>> with a ict +48 supply and the 12v comes out fine, I'm 99% sure it will work
>>> on the wood bench, and about 90% sure it will work in a rack.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If it was true -48 I would assume the + terminal would be bonded with
>>> chassis ground?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 12:45 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>>
>>> I think some of my devices have the chassis ground bonded with the
>>> negative input terminals, I discovered this
>>> because I am running a telecom rectifier shelf designed for -48 on a +48
>>> system because it's floating, but this
>>> causes the + output to not be fused, so I practiced arc welding once.
>>>
>>> Strange, didn't know the 1100 had dc input, but it looks floating though
>>> (per specs -48, 12-57 V)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:40 PM  wrote:
>>>
>>> I don’t think I have ever seen a true +48 load.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:29 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Different situation, but I have several sites with 1100ahx4 powered with
>>> +48, even though Mikrotik says they take -48.  I suspect you will find the
>>> same to be true on the CCR.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Connect the – terminal to ground and the + terminal to +48, obviously
>>> you don’t want to apply reverse polarity by trying to connect +48 to the
>>> -48 terminal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have some ccr1009 and ccr1036 but they are all AC powered, and I have
>>> no ccr1072, so I can’t answer your exact question.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
>>> *Sent:* 

Re: [AFMUG] Next project

[Bill Prince]

  
  
It's an escape capsule for the Starship.
We will have to blow a few up to be sure they work.


bp

On 9/20/2020 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown
  wrote:


  In the on deck circle.  You guess.  Will post progress photos.


  
  
  

Sent from my iPhone
  
  

  


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Re: [AFMUG] Next project

[Cameron Crum]

Go cart?


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 7:28 AM Robert  wrote:

> Steam rocket to find out if the world is flat..  Oh, sorry, that was done
> already...
>
> On 9/21/20 4:59 AM, can...@believewireless.net wrote:
>
> MOAB?
>
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 8:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> In the on deck circle.  You guess.  Will post progress photos.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone--
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP and Nested DHCP Option82

[dave]

K..
 Possibly, Drop one of the option 82 on the Closest Ap to the server. 
Check the firewall settings int he 1K devices to be sure nothing is 
being dropped.
Sounds like a broadcast isolation issue or some kind of security measure 
turned on by default.. We used to run in to this with the 1k devices and 
found allowing
dhcp below sm seemed to correct the issue. I dont remember if it said 
dhcp server or just dhcp below sm.




On 9/21/20 9:45 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

That is the correct layout.

Wouldn't enabling DHCP Below sub just be if there was a DHCP Server on 
the 1K system?  DHCP Works, it just randomly stops working, and 
rebooting the EPMP1k AP brings it back.


I saw this one other time when I tried to enable Option 82 on an FSK 
AP.  Same things happened, Client router would not get a DHCP Lease.  
I never did more troubleshooting of it then, just turned off Option82 
in the AP.  I'm guessing something strange is happening because 2 
devices are trying to write Option82 into the same request?


On 9/21/2020 7:57 AM, dave wrote:
So to understand what you have is a 
3kAP-->300sub--Switch--1KAP--->1kSub correct?


If this is correct then try this..

Ensure that you have allow Dhcp below sub on the 300 to allow those 
responses to relay to 3kAP



On 9/20/20 11:39 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

I'm running into a strange issue that's being difficult to replicate.

EPMP 3k AP W/option82 -> EPMP 300 SM -> Switch

Local Customer and EPMP1000 radio plug into this switch

EPMP1000 2.4 AP (nonGPS w/Option82)  -> EPMP1000 2.4SM

I'm using Option 82 so that Sonar can Tie the Public IP Address to 
the MAC of equipment on the customer account.


The Local customer off the switch runs just fine, Option 82 records 
the EPMP300 SM MAC, it has had no problems.


But the Customer behind the EPMP1000 radio randomly loses the 
ability to get a DHCP Lease.  The Mikrotik DHCP Server Log just 
reports 'Offered DHCP Lease without success'.   When it does work, 
Option82 shows the MAC of the EPMP1000 SM Like it's supposed to. 
DHCP Lease time is set to 3 hours.  At some point between 3-24 
hours, the customers router will lose its lease and won't be able to 
renew it.  The only way to get it working again is to reboot the 
EPMP1000 AP.  Rebooting the EPMP300 SM or the EPMP1000 SM does not 
fix it.  And it doesn't happen at every lease renewal, yesterday it 
ran for 16 hours before suddenly losing it's lease.


I have just disabled option 82 in the EPMP1000 AP and I'm guessing 
that will fix the customer, but I lose the ability to automatically 
track them in Sonar.  I've tried Firmware 4.4.3 and 4.5.5 on the 
EPMP1000, it's had the issue on both of them.  Anybody run into 
something like this before?












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Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

[Bill Prince]

  
  
If the equipment you're looking at (Aviat in this case) bonds +
  or - to the frame/chassis it means your job just got more
  complicated. If the rest of your equipment is floating, you might
  be OK, but more likely, some or all of the other equipment will be
  negative ground. In that case, the simple solution is to have two
  power supplies, one with negative ground, and one with positive
  ground (or floating).


bp

On 9/21/2020 7:44 AM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  So, like on these aviats, my contractor says
they're -48v, but the connector in the radio bonds to ground.
Does that mean my whole site has to have -48v or just radios
powered by that particular psu?
  
  
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 8:59 AM
  Ken Hohhof  wrote:


  

  Now if we could get the manufacturers
to be less secretive about their POE schemes.  They
mostly want you to use their POE device and don’t want
to document the pinouts or explain if it matters which
side is referenced to ground.
   
  Mostly I find that using a
Cat6-POE-APC with the jumpers as set at the factory and
+ and – hooked up per the markings works.  Which is
basically 802.3at.  It works with the – side grounded, I
suspect it would also work with the + side grounded, or
neither.  I was hesitant to use this on a PTP820 but it
works fine.  I don’t know why they make their POE scheme
sound so mysterious.
   
   
  
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of Josh Baird
  Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 8:44 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions
  (mikrotik)
  
   
  
Yep - great explanation!
  
   
  

  On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 4:55 PM
Chuck McCown 
wrote:


  
You have a power supply, say a
  6 volt car battery.  You connect a pair of
  headlights to it with two wires. All is well.  

   


  Now you start building cars. 
And you are going to wire up the headlights. 
Someone points out that you can save some money
on wiring by using the car chassis instead if
one of the wires.


   


  You decide to run the
positive connection from the battery to the
headlights with wire and return the current via
the car’s chassis.  


   


  Now you have turned a 6 volt
electrical system into a +6 volt system.  If you
reverse the battery and connect the + side to
the chassis and run the wire from the negative
post to the headlights , it will still work
fine.  The headlights don’t care.  Now you have
a -6 volt electrical system. 


   


   The headlights don’t care
but the radio does.  Most radios expect the
chassis to be negative and their power wire to
be positive.  You can “float” the radio by
mounting it on an insulator and connecting its
power wire to the car’s chases and the chassis
of the radio to the negative wire going to the
battery.  A bit dangerous but I have had to do
this at times.


   


  Oh,
and the car is an early VW.
  
Sent from my iPhone
  
  

  

  

Re: [AFMUG] EPMP and Nested DHCP Option82

[Nate Burke]

That is the correct layout.

Wouldn't enabling DHCP Below sub just be if there was a DHCP Server on 
the 1K system?  DHCP Works, it just randomly stops working, and 
rebooting the EPMP1k AP brings it back.


I saw this one other time when I tried to enable Option 82 on an FSK 
AP.  Same things happened, Client router would not get a DHCP Lease.  I 
never did more troubleshooting of it then, just turned off Option82 in 
the AP.  I'm guessing something strange is happening because 2 devices 
are trying to write Option82 into the same request?


On 9/21/2020 7:57 AM, dave wrote:
So to understand what you have is a 
3kAP-->300sub--Switch--1KAP--->1kSub correct?


If this is correct then try this..

Ensure that you have allow Dhcp below sub on the 300 to allow those 
responses to relay to 3kAP



On 9/20/20 11:39 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

I'm running into a strange issue that's being difficult to replicate.

EPMP 3k AP W/option82 -> EPMP 300 SM -> Switch

Local Customer and EPMP1000 radio plug into this switch

EPMP1000 2.4 AP (nonGPS w/Option82)  -> EPMP1000 2.4SM

I'm using Option 82 so that Sonar can Tie the Public IP Address to 
the MAC of equipment on the customer account.


The Local customer off the switch runs just fine, Option 82 records 
the EPMP300 SM MAC, it has had no problems.


But the Customer behind the EPMP1000 radio randomly loses the ability 
to get a DHCP Lease.  The Mikrotik DHCP Server Log just reports 
'Offered DHCP Lease without success'.   When it does work, Option82 
shows the MAC of the EPMP1000 SM Like it's supposed to. DHCP Lease 
time is set to 3 hours.  At some point between 3-24 hours, the 
customers router will lose its lease and won't be able to renew it.  
The only way to get it working again is to reboot the EPMP1000 AP.  
Rebooting the EPMP300 SM or the EPMP1000 SM does not fix it.  And it 
doesn't happen at every lease renewal, yesterday it ran for 16 hours 
before suddenly losing it's lease.


I have just disabled option 82 in the EPMP1000 AP and I'm guessing 
that will fix the customer, but I lose the ability to automatically 
track them in Sonar.  I've tried Firmware 4.4.3 and 4.5.5 on the 
EPMP1000, it's had the issue on both of them. Anybody run into 
something like this before?









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Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

[Steve Jones]

So, like on these aviats, my contractor says they're -48v, but the
connector in the radio bonds to ground. Does that mean my whole site has to
have -48v or just radios powered by that particular psu?

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 8:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Now if we could get the manufacturers to be less secretive about their POE
> schemes.  They mostly want you to use their POE device and don’t want to
> document the pinouts or explain if it matters which side is referenced to
> ground.
>
>
>
> Mostly I find that using a Cat6-POE-APC with the jumpers as set at the
> factory and + and – hooked up per the markings works.  Which is basically
> 802.3at.  It works with the – side grounded, I suspect it would also work
> with the + side grounded, or neither.  I was hesitant to use this on a
> PTP820 but it works fine.  I don’t know why they make their POE scheme
> sound so mysterious.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 8:44 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>
>
>
> Yep - great explanation!
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 4:55 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> You have a power supply, say a 6 volt car battery.  You connect a pair of
> headlights to it with two wires. All is well.
>
>
>
> Now you start building cars.  And you are going to wire up the
> headlights.  Someone points out that you can save some money on wiring by
> using the car chassis instead if one of the wires.
>
>
>
> You decide to run the positive connection from the battery to the
> headlights with wire and return the current via the car’s chassis.
>
>
>
> Now you have turned a 6 volt electrical system into a +6 volt system.  If
> you reverse the battery and connect the + side to the chassis and run the
> wire from the negative post to the headlights , it will still work fine.
> The headlights don’t care.  Now you have a -6 volt electrical system.
>
>
>
>  The headlights don’t care but the radio does.  Most radios expect the
> chassis to be negative and their power wire to be positive.  You can
> “float” the radio by mounting it on an insulator and connecting its power
> wire to the car’s chases and the chassis of the radio to the negative wire
> going to the battery.  A bit dangerous but I have had to do this at times.
>
>
>
> Oh, and the car is an early VW.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Sep 20, 2020, at 2:19 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> I still cant comprehend any of this. I'm just dumb when it comes to it
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:51 PM  wrote:
>
> Yes.
>
>
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:48 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>
>
>
> It's just a simple 48 to 12v converter to feed the mikrotik. I tested with
> a ict +48 supply and the 12v comes out fine, I'm 99% sure it will work on
> the wood bench, and about 90% sure it will work in a rack.
>
>
>
> If it was true -48 I would assume the + terminal would be bonded with
> chassis ground?
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 12:45 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
> I think some of my devices have the chassis ground bonded with the
> negative input terminals, I discovered this
> because I am running a telecom rectifier shelf designed for -48 on a +48
> system because it's floating, but this
> causes the + output to not be fused, so I practiced arc welding once.
>
> Strange, didn't know the 1100 had dc input, but it looks floating though
> (per specs -48, 12-57 V)
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:40 PM  wrote:
>
> I don’t think I have ever seen a true +48 load.
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:29 PM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>
>
>
> Different situation, but I have several sites with 1100ahx4 powered with
> +48, even though Mikrotik says they take -48.  I suspect you will find the
> same to be true on the CCR.
>
>
>
> Connect the – terminal to ground and the + terminal to +48, obviously you
> don’t want to apply reverse polarity by trying to connect +48 to the -48
> terminal.
>
>
>
> I have some ccr1009 and ccr1036 but they are all AC powered, and I have no
> ccr1072, so I can’t answer your exact question.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 2:19 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>
>
>
> So I have a handful of ccr1072's that I want to run on our +48v plant,
> mikrotik sells a '-48v telecom' power supply and they insist it's not
> compatible with +48v. I ordered one for testing and both +/- input
> terminals have no reference to chassis ground. I went ahead and applied
> +48v and the power supply fired up (no smoke) and when measuring from
> chassis ground to the input terminals I see no difference in potential.
>
>
>
> Before I shove this into a $3,000 router I 

Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Ken Hohhof]

110v at the generator or the other end of the 175 feet of 10 AWG wire?

 

And total load is 5-6 amps each including the UPS charging the batteries?  What 
kind of UPS?  Something like an APC will have a relatively low charging 
current, other setups may be quite a bit higher.  I know our Alpha UPS units 
have programmable charging current and I had to lower it in case the only 
generator I have available is our smallest Honda 1000 VA, otherwise the 
generator would run for a minute or two and then trip on overload.

 

Doing the math on voltage drop in the wire, 10 AWG is around 1 ohm per 1000 
feet, and you have 350 feet of wire including hot and neutral.  So 0.35 ohm 
times 5.5 amps is 2 volts.  Assuming the generator is putting out 120 volts, 
that wouldn’t account for a 10 volt drop.

 

Sounds like you suspect the generator can’t handle the load and as a result is 
putting out low voltage.

 

What kind of generator is this?  Is it an inverter style?  What is the VA 
rating?  If it’s just a standard generator for power tools and stuff, a UPS 
will sometimes find the voltage or frequency out of spec or unstable and refuse 
to run off it.  If it’s just an APC UPS or something like that, sometimes they 
have a sensitivity setting that you can set lower.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 9:22 AM
To: AFMUG 
Subject: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

 

So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged it 
all so that wing had nothing.

 

As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other 
phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains and 
the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and the UPS 
switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going on here.

 

I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two runs 
of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.


What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as simple as 
possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open choke.

 

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

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Re: [AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Chuck McCown]

I would guess your frequency was high and that may have bothered the ups. 
Dropping it lowered the freq and the voltage both.  110 volts is ok.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 21, 2020, at 8:23 AM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> 
> 
> So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged it 
> all so that wing had nothing.
> 
> As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other 
> phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains and 
> the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and the UPS 
> switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going on here.
> 
> I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two 
> runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.
> 
> What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as simple 
> as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open choke.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
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> AF mailing list
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[AFMUG] Generator power supply questions

[Josh Luthman]

So Friday we have another 3 phase go down in the building.  They unplugged
it all so that wing had nothing.

As a precaution I start up the generator.  When they're cutting the other
phases we are using I move it to the generator.  The generator complains
and the UPS units don't switch over.  I drop it to say 90% open choke and
the UPS switches over - but it's only 110v.  I'd like to know what's going
on here.

I have 175 feet of 10 gauge (times 2).  Two circuits on the generator, two
runs of copper, two UPS.  UPS is doing about 5-6 amps each.

What can I do better?  Should I?  It runs but I'd like to keep it as simple
as possible to avoid "teaching someone" to lower it from full open choke.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
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Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

[Ken Hohhof]

Now if we could get the manufacturers to be less secretive about their POE 
schemes.  They mostly want you to use their POE device and don’t want to 
document the pinouts or explain if it matters which side is referenced to 
ground.

 

Mostly I find that using a Cat6-POE-APC with the jumpers as set at the factory 
and + and – hooked up per the markings works.  Which is basically 802.3at.  It 
works with the – side grounded, I suspect it would also work with the + side 
grounded, or neither.  I was hesitant to use this on a PTP820 but it works 
fine.  I don’t know why they make their POE scheme sound so mysterious.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 8:44 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

 

Yep - great explanation!

 

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 4:55 PM Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

You have a power supply, say a 6 volt car battery.  You connect a pair of 
headlights to it with two wires. All is well.  

 

Now you start building cars.  And you are going to wire up the headlights.  
Someone points out that you can save some money on wiring by using the car 
chassis instead if one of the wires.

 

You decide to run the positive connection from the battery to the headlights 
with wire and return the current via the car’s chassis.  

 

Now you have turned a 6 volt electrical system into a +6 volt system.  If you 
reverse the battery and connect the + side to the chassis and run the wire from 
the negative post to the headlights , it will still work fine.  The headlights 
don’t care.  Now you have a -6 volt electrical system. 

 

 The headlights don’t care but the radio does.  Most radios expect the chassis 
to be negative and their power wire to be positive.  You can “float” the radio 
by mounting it on an insulator and connecting its power wire to the car’s 
chases and the chassis of the radio to the negative wire going to the battery.  
A bit dangerous but I have had to do this at times.

 

Oh, and the car is an early VW.

Sent from my iPhone





On Sep 20, 2020, at 2:19 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:



I still cant comprehend any of this. I'm just dumb when it comes to it 

 

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:51 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Yes.

 

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:48 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

 

It's just a simple 48 to 12v converter to feed the mikrotik. I tested with a 
ict +48 supply and the 12v comes out fine, I'm 99% sure it will work on the 
wood bench, and about 90% sure it will work in a rack.  

 

If it was true -48 I would assume the + terminal would be bonded with chassis 
ground?

 

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 12:45 PM TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com> > wrote:

I think some of my devices have the chassis ground bonded with the negative 
input terminals, I discovered this
because I am running a telecom rectifier shelf designed for -48 on a +48 system 
because it's floating, but this
causes the + output to not be fused, so I practiced arc welding once.

Strange, didn't know the 1100 had dc input, but it looks floating though (per 
specs -48, 12-57 V)




 

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:40 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

I don’t think I have ever seen a true +48 load.  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:29 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

 

Different situation, but I have several sites with 1100ahx4 powered with +48, 
even though Mikrotik says they take -48.  I suspect you will find the same to 
be true on the CCR.

 

Connect the – terminal to ground and the + terminal to +48, obviously you don’t 
want to apply reverse polarity by trying to connect +48 to the -48 terminal.

 

I have some ccr1009 and ccr1036 but they are all AC powered, and I have no 
ccr1072, so I can’t answer your exact question.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of TJ Trout
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 2:19 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

 

So I have a handful of ccr1072's that I want to run on our +48v plant, mikrotik 
sells a '-48v telecom' power supply and they insist it's not compatible with 
+48v. I ordered one for testing and both +/- input terminals have no reference 
to chassis ground. I went ahead and applied +48v and the power supply fired up 
(no smoke) and when measuring from chassis ground to the input terminals I see 
no difference in potential.

 

Before I shove this into a $3,000 router I wanted to see what I may be missing 
here?


  _  


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Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)

[Josh Baird]

Yep - great explanation!

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 4:55 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> You have a power supply, say a 6 volt car battery.  You connect a pair of
> headlights to it with two wires. All is well.
>
> Now you start building cars.  And you are going to wire up the
> headlights.  Someone points out that you can save some money on wiring by
> using the car chassis instead if one of the wires.
>
> You decide to run the positive connection from the battery to the
> headlights with wire and return the current via the car’s chassis.
>
> Now you have turned a 6 volt electrical system into a +6 volt system.  If
> you reverse the battery and connect the + side to the chassis and run the
> wire from the negative post to the headlights , it will still work fine.
> The headlights don’t care.  Now you have a -6 volt electrical system.
>
>  The headlights don’t care but the radio does.  Most radios expect the
> chassis to be negative and their power wire to be positive.  You can
> “float” the radio by mounting it on an insulator and connecting its power
> wire to the car’s chases and the chassis of the radio to the negative wire
> going to the battery.  A bit dangerous but I have had to do this at times.
>
> Oh, and the car is an early VW.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 20, 2020, at 2:19 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> 
> I still cant comprehend any of this. I'm just dumb when it comes to it
>
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:51 PM  wrote:
>
>> Yes.
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:48 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)
>>
>> It's just a simple 48 to 12v converter to feed the mikrotik. I tested
>> with a ict +48 supply and the 12v comes out fine, I'm 99% sure it will work
>> on the wood bench, and about 90% sure it will work in a rack.
>>
>> If it was true -48 I would assume the + terminal would be bonded with
>> chassis ground?
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 12:45 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>>> I think some of my devices have the chassis ground bonded with the
>>> negative input terminals, I discovered this
>>> because I am running a telecom rectifier shelf designed for -48 on a +48
>>> system because it's floating, but this
>>> causes the + output to not be fused, so I practiced arc welding once.
>>>
>>> Strange, didn't know the 1100 had dc input, but it looks floating though
>>> (per specs -48, 12-57 V)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:40 PM  wrote:
>>>
 I don’t think I have ever seen a true +48 load.

 *From:* Ken Hohhof
 *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:29 PM
 *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)


 Different situation, but I have several sites with 1100ahx4 powered
 with +48, even though Mikrotik says they take -48.  I suspect you will find
 the same to be true on the CCR.



 Connect the – terminal to ground and the + terminal to +48, obviously
 you don’t want to apply reverse polarity by trying to connect +48 to the
 -48 terminal.



 I have some ccr1009 and ccr1036 but they are all AC powered, and I have
 no ccr1072, so I can’t answer your exact question.





 *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
 *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 2:19 PM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik)



 So I have a handful of ccr1072's that I want to run on our +48v plant,
 mikrotik sells a '-48v telecom' power supply and they insist it's not
 compatible with +48v. I ordered one for testing and both +/- input
 terminals have no reference to chassis ground. I went ahead and applied
 +48v and the power supply fired up (no smoke) and when measuring from
 chassis ground to the input terminals I see no difference in potential.



 Before I shove this into a $3,000 router I wanted to see what I may be
 missing here?
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 AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP and Nested DHCP Option82

[dave]

So to understand what you have is a 3kAP-->300sub--Switch--1KAP--->1kSub 
correct?


If this is correct then try this..

Ensure that you have allow Dhcp below sub on the 300 to allow those 
responses to relay to 3kAP



On 9/20/20 11:39 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

I'm running into a strange issue that's being difficult to replicate.

EPMP 3k AP W/option82 -> EPMP 300 SM -> Switch

Local Customer and EPMP1000 radio plug into this switch

EPMP1000 2.4 AP (nonGPS w/Option82)  -> EPMP1000 2.4SM

I'm using Option 82 so that Sonar can Tie the Public IP Address to the 
MAC of equipment on the customer account.


The Local customer off the switch runs just fine, Option 82 records 
the EPMP300 SM MAC, it has had no problems.


But the Customer behind the EPMP1000 radio randomly loses the ability 
to get a DHCP Lease.  The Mikrotik DHCP Server Log just reports 
'Offered DHCP Lease without success'.   When it does work, Option82 
shows the MAC of the EPMP1000 SM Like it's supposed to. DHCP Lease 
time is set to 3 hours.  At some point between 3-24 hours, the 
customers router will lose its lease and won't be able to renew it.  
The only way to get it working again is to reboot the EPMP1000 AP.  
Rebooting the EPMP300 SM or the EPMP1000 SM does not fix it.  And it 
doesn't happen at every lease renewal, yesterday it ran for 16 hours 
before suddenly losing it's lease.


I have just disabled option 82 in the EPMP1000 AP and I'm guessing 
that will fix the customer, but I lose the ability to automatically 
track them in Sonar.  I've tried Firmware 4.4.3 and 4.5.5 on the 
EPMP1000, it's had the issue on both of them. Anybody run into 
something like this before?





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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP and Nested DHCP Option82

[David Coudron]

Hi Ryan,

This is probably going deeper than what I should be talking about with 
confidence as our router guys set it up.   But, what we do is any device that 
requests an IP Address that does not have a DHCP reservation in the DHCP server 
gets assigned what we call a Penalty Box address.   We set up a Penalty Box 
subnet for each tower router (have to do this for any router that gets DHCP 
requests) on our central DHCP server and any request coming from one of the 
downstream routers gets a Penalty Box address in the subnet we set up for the 
downstream router getting the DHCP request.  So we have a bunch of Penalty Box 
subnets (100.64.x.x range) and since they aren’t routable, folks can’t get to 
the Internet with a Penalty Box address.   They get a standard (Your account 
isn’t set up, call us) message.  We know if we see assigned addresses in the 
Penalty Box space that something is attached that is set up wrong in Sonar, or 
shouldn’t be attached to our network.

Otherwise, every device is set up on Sonar with their correct MAC and a 
dynamically assigned IP in Sonar.  This is written to the DHCP server on the 
Mikrotik, we just need to do this before plugging in the equipment at the 
customer or it will grab a Penalty Box address first.  This happens quite often 
it isn’t in Sonar before being installed and gets a Penalty box assignment, we 
just delete that Penalty Box assignment after it is set up in Sonar and then 
reboot the device to force a new DHCP request and everything is good.

It takes a little work to set up at first, but after that it has really been 
working well.   The guys at Linktechs set it up for us.   We like it because it 
definitively tells us that the IP in Sonar is accurately tied to the right 
piece of equipment and then we know all of our monitoring, etc is accurate.   
We also know that folks can’t be attaching their own equipment to our network 
this way, as they won’t have service.   The security of it could probably be 
better with VLANs, but this is pretty simple and works well.   If you want to 
dig deeper let me know and I can set up a screen share some time and show you 
the routers where this is set up.

Thanks,

David Coudron

From: AF  On Behalf Of Ryan Ray
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 1:41 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] EPMP and Nested DHCP Option82

Can you explain how you’re doing this? How can you assign a different ip in a 
dhcp space?

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 10:56 AM David Coudron 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
I just saw a post in the Sonar forum that looks pretty similar to this one.   
We don't use Option 82, but otherwise have Sonar write the DHCP table to the 
Mikrotiks.   If someone requests a DHCP that isn't in Sonar, we just assign 
them a Penalty Box IP address that doesn't have access to the Internet.This 
seems to work pretty well.



David Coudron





-Original Message-

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Nate Burke

Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2020 11:40 AM

To: Animal Farm mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>

Subject: [AFMUG] EPMP and Nested DHCP Option82



I'm running into a strange issue that's being difficult to replicate.



EPMP 3k AP W/option82 -> EPMP 300 SM -> Switch



Local Customer and EPMP1000 radio plug into this switch



EPMP1000 2.4 AP (nonGPS w/Option82)  -> EPMP1000 2.4SM



I'm using Option 82 so that Sonar can Tie the Public IP Address to the MAC of 
equipment on the customer account.



The Local customer off the switch runs just fine, Option 82 records the

EPMP300 SM MAC, it has had no problems.



But the Customer behind the EPMP1000 radio randomly loses the ability to get a 
DHCP Lease.  The Mikrotik DHCP Server Log just reports 'Offered

DHCP Lease without success'.   When it does work, Option82 shows the MAC

of the EPMP1000 SM Like it's supposed to. DHCP Lease time is set to 3 hours.  
At some point between 3-24 hours, the customers router will lose its lease and 
won't be able to renew it.  The only way to get it working again is to reboot 
the EPMP1000 AP.  Rebooting the EPMP300 SM or the

EPMP1000 SM does not fix it.  And it doesn't happen at every lease renewal, 
yesterday it ran for 16 hours before suddenly losing it's lease.



I have just disabled option 82 in the EPMP1000 AP and I'm guessing that will 
fix the customer, but I lose the ability to automatically track them in Sonar.  
I've tried Firmware 4.4.3 and 4.5.5 on the EPMP1000, it's had the issue on both 
of them.  Anybody run into something like this before?





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