Re: [AFMUG] IP TV

[Chris Fabien]

ically, while I
> love that they have apps for Roku, Android, iOS, etc, I want a set top box
> to be available as an option because I believe a lot of people are
> terminally lazy or stupid.
>
>
>
> If there’s a way to have an Android set top box that automatically opens a
> particular app on bootup then that might solve my one Realchoice quibble.
> It would have to be something we could buy already set up like that.
>
>
>
>1. I already know Dish/Direct are going to have a system where I do
>all the work and they get all the money.  That’s how they did satellite and
>I doubt their streaming would have any different philosophy.
>2. I have one opinion that Rodeo wasn’t good.  Any concurrence or
>disagreement on that?
>3. I’ll never get buy in from upper management to invest six figures
>in a head-end, and I don’t really want that to be my problem.
>
>
>
> There must be other players for reselling an IP TV option.  Do we know of
> any?
>
>
>
> If Layne is still on this list I do apologize buddy.  Your company has
> always responded when we needed something and I’d advocate your product to
> anyone. In fact, I currently **am** advocating your product to our upper
> management.  I only have the *one* issue, and I know I’ll be asked about
> it, and I want to have an answer prepared ahead of time when it comes up.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 17, 2024 6:51 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IP TV
>
>
>
> I have been through this several times.  Huge pita, not worth the effort.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2024, at 11:28 PM, Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> It's probably best to avoid TV at this point. Very low margin, lots of
> issues, increasing wholesale rates, churn, etc.
>
>
>
> Lots of companies are dropping TV and pushing people to streaming instead.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 16, 2024, 7:13 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Out of curiosity, why do you want to do TV?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Monday, September 16, 2024 6:48 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IP TV
>
>
>
> Good to know
>
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> --
>
> *From:* AF  on behalf of Chris Fabien <
> ch...@lakenetmi.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, September 16, 2024 7:30:35 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IP TV
>
>
>
> We had an extremely bad experience with Rodeo TV, FYI. We ended up
> building a proper cable TV headend. It was definitely not a turnkey
> project.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 3:24 PM  wrote:
>
> The last time I dug into doing TV I found anything from companies that
> would help you set up a head-end to the turnkey players like Realchoice.  I
> think I’d rather be on the turnkey end of it.
>
>
>
> The most
>
>
>
> I know Realchoice TV is a good product.  They’ve always been responsive
> whenever I needed anything, and the TV works fine.  What else is out there
> these days?
>
>1. Realchoice TV
>2. Rodeo Networks?  Are they still a thing?
>3. Direct TV has something you can resell as well, but frankly I’ve
>been a retailer for Dish Network and DirecTV for satellite TV, and both
>were like having an abusive spouse.
>
>
>
> What else is there?
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] IP TV

[Chris Fabien]

We had an extremely bad experience with Rodeo TV, FYI. We ended up building
a proper cable TV headend. It was definitely not a turnkey project.

On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 3:24 PM  wrote:

> The last time I dug into doing TV I found anything from companies that
> would help you set up a head-end to the turnkey players like Realchoice.  I
> think I’d rather be on the turnkey end of it.
>
>
>
> The most
>
>
>
> I know Realchoice TV is a good product.  They’ve always been responsive
> whenever I needed anything, and the TV works fine.  What else is out there
> these days?
>
>- Realchoice TV
>- Rodeo Networks?  Are they still a thing?
>- Direct TV has something you can resell as well, but frankly I’ve
>been a retailer for Dish Network and DirecTV for satellite TV, and both
>were like having an abusive spouse.
>
>
>
> What else is there?
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Problem employees

[Chris Fabien]

Ken, we have an open position currently and I'd say 90% of the resumes that
come thru have what I would consider a garbage work history. Random
assortment of unrelated job roles, most for less than a year. Clearly no
attempt or success at anything resembling a "career".  I guess this is just
normal now?


On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 11:57 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Based on Internet posts, one thing Gen XYZ seems to understand is that a
> PIP (performance improvement plan) or CAP (corrective action plan)
> basically means you’re getting fired and should start your job search now.
> They don’t take it as a wake up call to improve.
>
>
>
> Over the past decade or two, loyalty and trust between employers and
> employees seems to have mutually gone to zero.  The idea of a “career” or
> working at the same place for years is gone, and both sides blame the
> other.  Big corporations that regularly overhire and then lay off to
> appease shareholders don’t help.  Yet billionaire owners like Musk expect
> “extreme hardcore” effort from employees who sleep on the floor.  Seems
> like local small businesses and family owned businesses are collateral
> damage in all this.  Younger workers learn from their reddits and tiktoks
> that they are expendable and so they owe no loyalty or hard work to their
> job.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Sent:* Monday, September 16, 2024 10:29 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Problem employees
>
>
>
> We do write them up.  But a bit of a harsh ass chewing seems to yield much
> better results much quicker than gentle feed back, mentoring, multiple
> reviews etc.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
>
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>
> *Sent:* Monday, September 16, 2024 9:04 AM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Problem employees
>
>
>
> I read a book that was about cultivating a high performance team.  Bottom
> line was similar to the seminar you mention, but slightly different.
>
>
>
> The short version is set expectations clearly, have regular reviews, and
> make it clear when expectations are not being met.  After a few bad reviews
> the most likely outcomes are that they improve or they find another job and
> go away on their own.  If they don’t do either one then you have
> documentation of these reviews and you can drop them without fear of any
> unfounded accusations.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 14, 2024 4:22 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Problem employees
>
>
>
> I many years ago I went to a skilpath seminar on what to do with problem
> employees.  After two days the bottom line was that you probably will not
> change them, learn to live with them or fire them.
>
>
>
> So for a number of years I gave them gentle performance reviews, some
> respectful feedback and then fired the ones the did not perform.  There was
> some positive outcomes.  We frequently could find someone better for the
> position.  I used to say that I have never regretted firing anyone and
> almost always realized that I should have done it long ago.  And I have
> remarked that part of our success is that we did fire people.  I still
> believe that is true and is good advice.
>
>
>
> But in the past few years I have changed my view and tactic a little bit.
> I got tired of performance reviews, coaching, coddling,  firing etc.  I
> just started chewing ass.  Not to the point that I created permanent
> psychic damage, but certainly some temporary psychic damage.  One gen Z kid
> told me the next day that he was OK, had a cry in his car but he is now
> OK.  And he is now OK, good performer.
>
>
>
> I decided I did not want to waste the training I invested.  And that if
> they could survive the ass chewing and learn from it, I ended up overall in
> a better situation and they did too.  So far I haven’t fired anyone since
> starting this I don’t think.  One guy is on thin ice but he only got his
> ass chewing on Thursday.  We will see if can pull it out.
>
>
>
> Sick of coddling Gen Z.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables

[Chris Fabien]

"but I think the planned redundancy will turn out to be imaginary
redundancy." I have run into this over and over again on our upstream
transport/transit providers in Michigan. It's very hard to really verify
diversity when some of the carriers don't even know where their plant is or
what's connected to what. We recently had an outage on 2 carriers at the
same time when a 3rd party cut out a colo rack that nobody thought or
realized had anything active on it still. Similar issues several other
times and most of it tracks back to a late 90s CLEC fiber network that's
now owned by windstream, that must have been the cheapest place to get IRUs
from. Poorly documented, poorly maintained, poorly operated longhaul
network.

On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 9:25 AM  wrote:

> Redundancy is expensive.  It’s relatively easy to quantify the cost of
> adding extra paths and hard to quantify the cost of downtime.  If you need
> the accounting department to approve the funding then having a question
> mark on half of the formula won’t help your case.  If you’ve been on the
> operations side (and all you owner/operators certainly are) then it’s easy
> to see the stress and wasted labor during an outage, but you may not have
> hard data to put a dollar value on it.
>
>
>
> Some companies also have a target figure of dollars per household passed.
> If you can’t hit the target while paying for a diverse trunk path but you
> can hit the target without it, then your choice may be to not build that
> area or to build it without redundancy.
>
>
>
> I also recently was at a meeting regarding a build in a new area where
> they planned connections to the POP site from two different long haul
> providers, but it appears to me that both providers are overlapping for at
> least several miles down Main St in the town.  Both providers also have
> data centers in the same part of the state, so I’d bet money they both get
> there along the same highway.  One of the two is clearly leasing fiber from
> the cable company….for all we know they both could be.  I opened my mouth
> so now it’s on me to get maps of their paths and verify this, but I think
> the planned redundancy will turn out to be imaginary redundancy.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 3:55 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables
>
>
>
> I would think also it would be different where you have a ring or diverse
> paths in a backhaul network, as opposed to PON fed from 15 miles away and
> the whole town has no Internet until you find and repair the cut.
>
>
>
> I’m often surprised at how many fiber networks have zero redundancy.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 2:43 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables
>
>
>
> We are something like 80% direct bury.  We pay for it ourselves.  There
> are use cases for both.
>
>
> Our repair kit is: two handholes, a little bit of fiber, and a pair of
> splice cases.  Like $1000.  This is much cheaper than say $1/foot pipe for
> a million feet (which of course does not guarantee you will not have
> damage).
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 2:11 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> We’ve had a lot of fiber installs in the ROW around here (including for a
> Meta datacenter), almost all buried, combination of directional boring and
> trenching but I haven’t seen anyone doing direct burial.  It’s all in
> conduit.  One county it’s something like 4 inch and I was told the county
> requires that size.  Not sure if conduit and handholes and blown fiber are
> just the preferred method of construction to make repairs easier, or if
> it’s a govt requirement to bury stuff in the ROW.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 12:47 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables
>
>
>
> >Sometimes just one strand
>
> That sucks!
>
>
>
> So you have a HH every 20k/40k feet with the butt splice?  Nothing in
> between?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 1:42 PM  wrote:
>
> Gophers will kill one fiber at a time.  Sometimes just one strand,
> sometimes they will eat through the whole cable.  Steel armor and all.
>
>
>
> Direct bury across the desert, there is no advantage to hand holes.  Since
> you are not blowing you cannot install slack loops.  So the HH is at the
> splice point.  When you have damage you dig it back and install two HH with
> slack loops.
>
>
>
> I don’t build direct bury any more.  But some do.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 11:20 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables
>
>
>
> When the gophers hit, do they get the entire cable or just a healthy bite
> of the cable.  I'm wondering if you could somehow see the strength of a
> tone down the armor?
>
>
> How far apart are your HH

Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables

[Chris Fabien]

We do a lot of direct bury, including at time up to 144F. Every so often I
get ashamed of myself and design a project using conduit for the larger
county fiber sections. Most of those, I have ran into various problems with
pulling or blowing the fiber, causing additional re-work or troubleshooting
time. So it's more material cost, additional work steps (placing cable) and
more chace for problems requiring troubleshooting. We've almost never had
issues with installation damage during plowing cable. The conduit does
offer some protection against critters, around here we have ground
hogs which like to dig into ditch banks, every spring we get a handful of
cuts from that, usually they only seem to damage areas where we ran 12F
flat drop as mainline. That's a pretty quick and inexpensive repair.

On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 4:54 PM  wrote:

> Are you using double or triple armor cable?
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 1:43 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables
>
> We are something like 80% direct bury.  We pay for it ourselves.  There
> are use cases for both.
>
> Our repair kit is: two handholes, a little bit of fiber, and a pair of
> splice cases.  Like $1000.  This is much cheaper than say $1/foot pipe for
> a million feet (which of course does not guarantee you will not have
> damage).
>
> On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 2:11 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> We’ve had a lot of fiber installs in the ROW around here (including for a
>> Meta datacenter), almost all buried, combination of directional boring and
>> trenching but I haven’t seen anyone doing direct burial.  It’s all in
>> conduit.  One county it’s something like 4 inch and I was told the county
>> requires that size.  Not sure if conduit and handholes and blown fiber are
>> just the preferred method of construction to make repairs easier, or if
>> it’s a govt requirement to bury stuff in the ROW.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 12:47 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables
>>
>>
>>
>> >Sometimes just one strand
>>
>> That sucks!
>>
>>
>>
>> So you have a HH every 20k/40k feet with the butt splice?  Nothing in
>> between?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 1:42 PM  wrote:
>>
>> Gophers will kill one fiber at a time.  Sometimes just one strand,
>> sometimes they will eat through the whole cable.  Steel armor and all.
>>
>>
>>
>> Direct bury across the desert, there is no advantage to hand holes.
>> Since you are not blowing you cannot install slack loops.  So the HH is at
>> the splice point.  When you have damage you dig it back and install two HH
>> with slack loops.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don’t build direct bury any more.  But some do.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 11:20 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables
>>
>>
>>
>> When the gophers hit, do they get the entire cable or just a healthy bite
>> of the cable.  I'm wondering if you could somehow see the strength of a
>> tone down the armor?
>>
>>
>> How far apart are your HH?  We try to keep it 1320 or 2640 feet at most
>> but we are doing FTTH.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 1:17 PM  wrote:
>>
>> Yes, if it is a strike you don’t even need the OTDR.  Just drive the
>> route and stop where they are digging.
>>
>> Sometimes splices go bad and normally the OTDR indicates a distance very
>> close to a splice point so that is easy too.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gophers, never easy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 11:06 AM
>>
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables
>>
>>
>>
>> Sounds like gophers are a lot worse than somebody digging in the wrong
>> spot, because once you are close you can just look for the above ground
>> evidence like a hole or an excavator with yellow vest people standing
>> around.
>>
>>
>>
>> What were the critters than Bill Murray was at war with in Caddyshack,
>> were those gophers?  Dumb movie, but iconic I guess.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@go-mtc.com
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2024 11:43 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] fiber patch cables
>>
>>
>>
>> Index of refraction (IOR) differs from reel to reel.  If you need
>> accurate distance measurements you have to enter a precise index of
>> refraction, and the IOR can vary with distance as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> The internal timebase drifts.  Clock errors and stability cause accuracy
>> issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> Pulse width and sample interval adds precision errors.  Longer distances
>> need wider pulses so you lose precision.
>>
>> So with a loss of both precision and accuracy that is proportional to
>> distances being shot, you are never going to walk right up and dig up the
>> correct spot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bottom line, long cab

Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic

[Chris Fabien]

We have seen an extremely wide range of prices for dark fiber leases,
it's one of these things where every situation and provider is
different. I have been quoted prices over $100/mo per strand-mile and
as low as $15/mo/strand-mile. A lot of the value seems to be what they
suspect you're going to try to do with the strands. 50 Miles to a
datacenter, you're gonna be running NxDWDM 100gig waves, big money.
Shorter local/metro distance that maybe gets you between your NOC and
a small/WISP style tower, or maybe grabbing a piece of an "island" run
that can't even connect to anything else, much more reasonable prices.

On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 5:50 PM Darin Steffl  wrote:
>
> For those of you who have dark fiber access, what kind of costs do you have?
>
> I'm thinking more of the cost to access these strands? IRU costs, lease, 
> swaps with other providers, etc?
>
> I want some sort of ballpark costs to know what's reasonable when we start 
> looking at this over wavelengths for shorter paths.
>
> On Thu, May 2, 2024, 2:50 PM Chris Fabien  wrote:
>>
>> Mark, we do exactly this on a segment where we have leased 2 strands
>> of dark fiber on a 30mile path. The ends of the run have 8-ch DWDM
>> Muxes and we have two spots along the run where we have an OADM in a
>> splice case to drop out a wavelength. At those points, we set a
>> handhole next to the carrier's handhole, and they looped the 2 strands
>> onto a 12F jumper into our case, so our OADM is in our case, in our
>> handhole. Just be sure your optical margins are planned for any
>> potential add/drop points because each does have some loss.
>>
>> On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 12:41 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > We may have the opportunity to grab 2 strands of dark fiber.  These will 
>> > allow us to build a loop between two points on our network.  We have been 
>> > told we can also break into this fiber within our loop.  I'm guessing when 
>> > we break into this fiber they will just extend the dark fiber into our 
>> > handhole and we will be responsible to figure out what we do once we cut 
>> > into that fiber.
>> >
>> > I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to do this passively so we 
>> > don't have to depend on having our loop run though a customers location.  
>> > I was thinking of CWDM.  I can setup a CWDM/DWDM at our site and send 
>> > multiple wave lengths down the fiber.  Is there a way for me to break out 
>> > just one wavelength at a hand hole passively?
>> >
>> > Let's say I have a North/South run of 2 strands going though a hand hole 
>> > and I what to break out 1270nm for a customer.  Is there away for me in 
>> > the hand hole, passively, to peel off just 1270nm.  Put something like a 
>> > 1x2 splitter in on N1, N2, S1, S2 and send those 4 fibers into the 
>> > customer site.  Then install a couple of 1270nm optics in a switch to 
>> > preserve the loop for that one customer.
>> >
>> > Do the optics do all the magic or are there some type of filters in the 
>> > DWDM/CWDM modules?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>> >
>> > Myakka Communications
>> > www.Myakka.com
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic

[Chris Fabien]

Mark, we do exactly this on a segment where we have leased 2 strands
of dark fiber on a 30mile path. The ends of the run have 8-ch DWDM
Muxes and we have two spots along the run where we have an OADM in a
splice case to drop out a wavelength. At those points, we set a
handhole next to the carrier's handhole, and they looped the 2 strands
onto a 12F jumper into our case, so our OADM is in our case, in our
handhole. Just be sure your optical margins are planned for any
potential add/drop points because each does have some loss.

On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 12:41 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF
 wrote:
>
> We may have the opportunity to grab 2 strands of dark fiber.  These will 
> allow us to build a loop between two points on our network.  We have been 
> told we can also break into this fiber within our loop.  I'm guessing when we 
> break into this fiber they will just extend the dark fiber into our handhole 
> and we will be responsible to figure out what we do once we cut into that 
> fiber.
>
> I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to do this passively so we don't 
> have to depend on having our loop run though a customers location.  I was 
> thinking of CWDM.  I can setup a CWDM/DWDM at our site and send multiple wave 
> lengths down the fiber.  Is there a way for me to break out just one 
> wavelength at a hand hole passively?
>
> Let's say I have a North/South run of 2 strands going though a hand hole and 
> I what to break out 1270nm for a customer.  Is there away for me in the hand 
> hole, passively, to peel off just 1270nm.  Put something like a 1x2 splitter 
> in on N1, N2, S1, S2 and send those 4 fibers into the customer site.  Then 
> install a couple of 1270nm optics in a switch to preserve the loop for that 
> one customer.
>
> Do the optics do all the magic or are there some type of filters in the 
> DWDM/CWDM modules?
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] PON question

[Chris Fabien]

PON is much more flexible mainly due to the much lower signal loss per
distance. There are ways to deploy that almost exactly mirror an HFC
network - There are strand mounted OLTs, you can "tap" the signal in
exactly the same fashion as HFC taps where you have one active coax or
fiber and the tap values change as you go down the road to keep
customer outputs correct. They even make plug and play taps that look
almost like CATV taps.

I think it's more common to have your aggregation points serving
larger areas with PON, mainly because you can and it's more economical
that way. One large cabinet or hut can serve thousands of homes within
a 10-15 mile radius without sacrificing anything. Using splitters out
in the field (small splitter cabinets, or distributed in splice cases)
keeps your PON feeder fiber count moderate so you can hit a huge area
without getting into large cables,cases, and handholes.

In our network, at first we deployed cabinets, but have moved to huts
mainly for security, backup power, cooling, and technician
convenience. It's a rural area so one hut might have two to four
72-288 fibers, but that's a lot of spare strands. Most of our main
runs have at most about 30-40 active PON strands leaving the hut in a
given direction.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 7:59 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Since there are FTTH people here and I’m mostly ignorant of such things, 
> maybe someone can clear something up for me.
>
>
>
> I always assumed a PON based FTTH system had a topology kind of like HFC.  I 
> expected fiber down the street with splitters, but fed by some sort of 
> neighborhood node in a cabinet with power and electronics, fed by active EPL 
> style fiber.  Which could have redundant paths, rings, etc. so a fiber cut 
> wouldn’t take down a whole town or multiple towns, the backbone traffic would 
> reroute.
>
>
>
> I’ve been told this is not the case.  And that instead, each PON could go 
> back over a strand to a headend several towns and many miles away, all 
> passive.
>
>
>
> Sorry for the poor description of my question, hopefully you can figure out 
> what I’m asking.
>
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber on bad spool

[Chris Fabien]

If you have a spare wood spool of similar or larger size, you can fashion a
spool turntable pretty easily. Disassemble the good spool, one side turns
into the base, mount 4 or 6 large swivel casters around the spool, and
mount a 2" galvanized pipe mounted in a floor flange in the center as an
axle. Place the other spool side over the axle and it will spin easily on
the casters. Then just place the bad spool on its side over the axle.

On Wed, Mar 6, 2024, 11:15 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF <
af@af.afmug.com> wrote:

> I have some 144 fiber that is sitting on a wooden spool that is rotting
> away.  Apparently this spool is in real bad shape.  I'm waiting on some
> pictures to see how bad.  Guys are telling me we are going to have to
> abandon all the fiber.  I hoping to try to re-spool it to another spool.
>
> Any tips or tricks?
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees

[Chris Fabien]

We have never had success with production based bonuses, it always was
hurt feelings when expectations were not met or bending the criteria
to make sure the productions bonus was awarded sometimes, lot of
finger pointing and resentment when it wasn't met.
For a while we did annual christmas bonus based on somewhat on
seniority. Also hurt feelings and whining when the most senior
employee blabbed what his bonus was.
Last year we did a fixed bonus for everyone. It might have
over-rewarded some of the new employees a bit but everyone was happy
at least.
Of course do annual or semi-annual performance based increases and
keep wages very competitive.

On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 9:45 AM  wrote:
>
> An employee’s perspective:
>
> I’d continue with regular increases.  I have been at two places where the 
> only time I’d get a raise was when I had an offer from someone else.  This 
> tends to happen at tiny businesses with no HR department.
> More than anything else I want a good work environment:  People I like to 
> work with, management who know what they’re doing, a product I can be proud 
> of working on, etc.
> Sticking around for stock is a danger for an employee because while the 
> documents say how many shares you’ll have, you won’t have any way to know 
> whether they’re worth a million dollars or 94 cents.  I’d be angry and 
> frustrated if I stuck it out and let other opportunities pass by and didn’t 
> get a big payout.
> An offer of stock from an employer I wasn’t happy with actually pushed me to 
> resign.  I work because I should, and I don’t usually stop to think about why 
> I’m doing it. The offer made me do some reflection on them, myself, and 
> whether I want to be committed to that group of people long term.  That 
> answer was definitely “no”, and that prompted me to look for other options 
> sooner rather than later.
> Production based bonuses are good in theory, but I have not yet had those 
> based on a metric that I had any impact on.  I’ve been just along for the 
> ride on the bonus programs.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 2:12 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees
>
>
>
> I worked for big companies in the 80’s and remember profit sharing and 
> Christmas bonuses.  Then we had a period of startups with stock options as a 
> huge part of compensation – the idea was you worked 80 hour weeks for modest 
> pay but if the company hit it big your options could be worth a lot.  I 
> suspect some people hit the jackpot and a lot more got the shaft.
>
>
>
> My sense is that employees today are mostly focused on the short term.  They 
> have bills to pay, they want to know what income they can count on, they 
> probably don’t want to roll the dice on profit sharing or a bonus or stock 
> options.  Also, Millennials and Gen XYZ I talk to seem to view employment as 
> transactional, and they don’t necessarily identify with the company or the 
> owners (thanks to companies like Amazon and owners like Bezos).
>
>
>
> So while I don’t have any hard facts, my guess is you’re doing the right 
> thing already.  If you’re inclined to tie compensation to company 
> performance, I wouldn’t make it a large percentage, and I wouldn’t try to use 
> it as an incentive for people to work insane hours or achieve impossible 
> goals (like Elon Musk’s “extremely hardcore”).  And I’d make it fairly short 
> term, like monthly or something, so employees aren’t making their families 
> scrimp in hopes of a windfall at the end of the quarter or year.
>
>
>
> If you do experience hard times, reduced hours might be a temporary solution 
> at least for hourly employees.  Realizing that with low unemployment, some of 
> them might move elsewhere.
>
>
>
> The good news is that any part of your business tied to fiber projects is 
> likely to have at least 5 good years coming.
>
>
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 12:16 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] compensation for employees
>
>
>
> My latest pivot a couple of years ago to microtrenching blades, adding grout 
> machines, then microtrenching saw attachments and now to a specialized type 
> of vacuum excavator has gone extremely well.  Almost no software involved.  
> Just a little in a motion control PCB in the grout machine to control the 
> hydrostatic transmission.  This is by far my most profitable season I have 
> ever had in 50 years of running some kind of hustle.  And those years of the 
> stinger and other related antennas and hardware were not bad at all.  I am a 
> bit more confident that these new “durable products” have more legs than the 
> antennas that were radio specific.
>
>
>
> But having been through wax and wane of business, economy and product cycles 
> for many decades, I am always reticent to ratchet up pay.  I do give bonuses. 
>  I will always live in fear

Re: [AFMUG] WDM transceivers

[Chris Fabien]

It should work. If you ever anticipate needing more channels, choose
receivers with enough optical budget to allow adding the DWDM Muxes
later on.

On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 5:37 PM  wrote:
>
> Dumb question of the week:
>
> Could I run a pair of DWDM transceivers through a CWDM multiplexer and expect 
> it to work?  I’d only be using a small slice of the channel, but if the DWDM 
> wavelength is encompassed by the larger CWDM wavelength then that light 
> should still reach the intended destination, right?
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] who caves first? charter? disney?

[Chris Fabien]

It's a dance that's been danced 1000 times before over the years. I
highly doubt losing even their full TV lineup would put Charter out of
business. There is very little margin in TV even for the big guys.
Programming costs are completely insane and the networks want to
believe they can demand whatever increases they want. As a small CATV
operator any pushback by a large carrier helps the general landscape
although doesn't help us directly. As it stands, Disney/ESPN lineup
was never part of our TV service because costs were insane even a few
years back. We do miss a few customers because of that but most people
don't mind... that says a lot about how valuable those channels really
are vs what the network thinks they are worth.

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 10:50 PM CBB - Jay Fuller
 wrote:
>
>
> Talking heads are making it out to be a big deal.  They'll both lose a lot of 
> money.  Charter may not survive
> pay tv may not survive
>
> my take?  per 1,000 facebook posts here last Saturday as SEC football kicked 
> off, they're all dropping whatever
> charter they had left and going to youtube tv.  meaning it's all being dumped 
> on our networks (ok, no worries).
>
> disney isn't going to lose that revenue, now it's just coming in from a 
> different pay-tv provider.
>
> so i see charter being the big loser.  Those SEC football fans are going to 
> find a way to get the feed.
> Seems youtube tv is now getting their money - - - if they weren't before.
>
>
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question

[Chris Fabien]

The term that got us cheap power was "unmetered CATV power supply".
They allow connection of a fixed capacity power supply unit with no
meter, just a small disconnect and drop a 120V 10AWG service and bill
us based on half of the power supply's nameplate capacity.

On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 3:45 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> Some places have what is called a “street light tariff” that is about as low 
> as you can get.
>
>
>
> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 10:38 AM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>
>
> I can save you the suspense.  If you have access to electric that’ll be 
> cheaper than solar.  The problem is the need to run 24/7.  You have to design 
> around the December-January months.  I’m in NY State, and at our latitude we 
> only get a few hours of average production per day during those months.  And 
> obviously if it’s snowing for a week you need to be able to ride through that 
> on mostly battery power.  Even with a modest load it takes a silly amount of 
> panels and batteries to stay up 24/7 in the winter.  More than you’d ever be 
> allowed to put on a utility pole.
>
>
>
> Talk to your electric co about the smallest service you can get.  Explain 
> what you’re trying to do and that your max load is very low.
>
> NYSEG normally doesn’t do less than 100A, but they made an exception and let 
> us do 60A.  You need a meter can, a service rated panel, a conduit up the 
> pole and a weatherhead.  Then you either have an outdoor outlet, or have an 
> outlet inside your enclosure.  You’ll want the smallest service they’ll let 
> you do because of the wire size on the service cable.  A 20A (if they’d allow 
> it) would only need a 12/3 with ground, and that’s up to 4800 Watts (240x20) 
> so it’s still more than you’d ever need.   A 12/3 is way cheaper than a 100A 
> service entrance cable.
>
>
>
> My figure is 8 years old, and obviously there’s been inflation since then, 
> but I went to the same contractor who does electric installs for the cable 
> company and they quoted me about $1000.  Even if it’s 3x that for you today 
> you’d still never beat that with a solar installation even if they’d let you 
> do it.  And I’m not some knee-jerk anti-solar lunatic, I’m just saying I’ve 
> run the numbers and it doesn’t add up.   People do it when they’re off grid, 
> or when the electric service is unreliable in the area, or sometimes just for 
> the PR/marketing power of being “solar powered”.  Those are all fine reasons, 
> but doing it for cost savings isn’t going to work out.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 10:27 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>
>
>
> we have a dozen or so, but are looking at pole mount micropops (our own 
> poles). We are losing a grain elevator site because they decommissioned the 
> elevator and theres no real options for the customers in some of the areas. 
> Im just trying to get to something we can get solar power with enough battery 
> to last through overcast. So Im calculating per battery runtimes, then will 
> look at number of batteries we would need to survive vs paying for a ROW 
> meter vs losing the customers. Just have to get to the cost per customer to 
> retain them and the benefit gained per pole
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 8:53 AM Brian Webster  
> wrote:
>
> How many of the batteries do you have? Do you need any voltages other than 
> the 48 volts? If you have 4 batteries and only need 48 volts then wire them 
> in series and not have to deal with the converter.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 6:59 AM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>
>
>
> *You’re around C/30 which should be on the high end of capacity.
>
> Lower load usually means a little extra capacity out of the battery.  I 
> realized that sentence might have been ambiguous.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 6:56 AM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> Subject: RE: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>
>
>
> You can do the whole thing in Watts.
>
>
>
> 12V * 150ah = 1800 Watt-hours
>
> 1800Wh / 50W = 36 hours
>
>
>
> If they’re telling me 95% efficiency, I’d assume 50W out needs 53W in (50 / 
> 0.95).
>
> There’s usually an efficiency curve for the device based on load and 
> temperature so it wouldn’t be 95% in all circumstances.  Your system should 
> be drawing less than 5A off the battery, and if your multimeter has a 10A 
> fuse like most do, then you could put the meter in line and actually measure 
> the amperage before and after the converter.  Then you’d know for sure.
>
>
>
> And the battery’s total capacity will have a curve based on C-rate so there’s 
> some variability t

Re: [AFMUG] "Low pass" attenuator

[Chris Fabien]

If it's for calix I'd be curious to know what you're testing...

On Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 1:27 PM  wrote:

> Exactly.
>
> We were testing a different brand of XGS-PON transceiver.  It works fine,
> except clients stronger than about -14 don’t connect.  Our current brand
> alarms at -10, but functions as high as -7, so our design assumes -10 as a
> cutoff.
>
> We can go around and pad the hot ONT’s, but it would be super convenient
> if we could magically add 5dB to only the real hot ones.
>
>
>
> …. we could just not use the transceiver, but it’s a lot cheaper than what
> the OLT manufacturer is selling us so it would be nice to make it work.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2023 11:01 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] “Low pass” attenuator
>
>
>
> Curious, where would you have two signals of different amplitude in a
> fiber system?  PON return signals?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2023 5:07 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] “Low pass” attenuator
>
>
>
> Is there such a thing as a fiber attenuator that only attenuates a signal
> higher than some threshold?
>
>
>
> I’m thinking to prevent overloading a receiver, but let weaker signals
> pass unimpeded.
>
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
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Re: [AFMUG] Headphones and earbuds

[Chris Fabien]

I think you're right on the money, employees are there to work not
listen to music. I walked up on an employee once potholing a plastic
gas service right at the edge of the pavement with headphones on, I
had to scream to get his attention. Totally zero situational awareness
and no way he'd have heard hissing if he damaged the gas line. Our
policy is no music/headphones while working near equipment, in a
hazardous area like the road ROW or with a customer nearby. For some
jobs, like sitting in the van splicing fiber, I am OK with it.

On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 3:00 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> I warned an employee wearing noise cancelling earphones that they were a 
> safety hazard yesterday.  Today I noticed he had them on again, I pointed to 
> his ear.  He went off on me, complaining that everyone else had earbuds.  I 
> told him that many times I started talking to him and he either acted like he 
> was not hearing anything or he chose to ignore me.  Yadda y adda, yadda.  He 
> quit a few minutes later.  Good worker but lousy attitude.  43 years old and 
> had worked about 20 different places.
>
> So I adopted an open ears policy.  If I am the asshole, that is fine.  I am a 
> boomer and proud of it.
>
> Whadya y’all think?
>
>
>
> Should Employees Be Allowed to Wear Earbuds?
>
> 
>
>
>
> Currently, the Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA) does not 
> have guidelines on earbud use in the workplace. However, OSHA has issued 
> recommendations regarding earbud use while on the job. Of course, wearing 
> earbuds in some work environments poses more of a threat than in others.
>
> Earbud Dangers
>
> The dangers of wearing earbuds while on the job are similar to non-employment 
> use of these devices. People wearing earbuds simply cannot hear emergency 
> signals, but it goes beyond that. Overall, earbuds may pose a safety hazard 
> because the employee is less cognizant of their surroundings and is not 
> paying attention to their safety.
>
> No Earbuds Allowed
>
> OSHA urges employers to forbidTop of Form
>
>  Bottom of Form
>
> the use of earbuds when workers are operating any sort of heavy equipment. 
> Anyone working on a manufacturing or construction site where heavy equipment 
> is used should not have earbuds, headphones, or similar devices on their 
> heads. For example, even if the forklift operator is not wearing earbuds, a 
> fellow employee in the vicinity using these devices could end up getting hit 
> if they cannot hear the machine. Along with earbuds, the same warnings hold 
> true for smartphones.  Manufacturing machinery such as milling machines emit 
> noises that indicate problem conditions or unsafe conditions.  Operators of 
> machines need to be able to hear what is going on with the machine.
>
> Other Earbud Risks
>
> In most manufacturing industries, various energy-related hazards exist. These 
> may include chemical, electrical, or fire hazards. Failure to hear a warning 
> device due to earbud use not only puts that employee at risk if they cannot 
> hear warnings from coworkers but may be at risk as earbuds also affect 
> evacuations or the realization that equipment is not functioning properly. 
> For maximum safety, no employee in a manufacturing setting should wear 
> earbuds, even if they are not in an area of heavy equipment use. That 
> includes those working in warehouses. Earbuds are never a substitute for any 
> type of hearing protection on the job.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.

[Chris Fabien]

There are times visual contact is just not practicable without extreme
expense. We have a lot of sandy seasonal high water table areas where
it's difficult to  expose a line even 3ft deep, and anything deeper is
impossible without dewatering and shoring. Even with a vac truck you
just might catch a glimpse of the line before the walls cave in. Our
reality is, for buried phone, we check depth with our locator and plan
our bores to avoid it by 18" or more, we only daylight if we actually
need our line to cross it close. Gas, we pothole that 100% mainly
because of the risk and the potential of locate wire being not right
with the pipe which is fairly common. Luckily we only have gas in town
here.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 2:27 PM  wrote:
>
> I said it poorly.  I was thinking more about the “visual contact” rule.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2023 2:23 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> Cc: Chuck McCown 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.
>
>
>
> I pothole 100%.  Crazy expensive not to.
>
>
>
> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
>
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2023 10:58 AM
>
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.
>
>
>
> “theres law and then theres what guys do.”
>
>
>
> I had a boss who gave a long speech about how the law is written vs how the 
> policy for enforcement is written vs how the court interprets it, and how it 
> can change at each step along the way.  I heard the same speech every time I 
> brought up that something he’s doing might be illegal. I can summarize his 
> long winded speech as, “It was legal if I got away with it.”
>
>
>
> That may not be how we’d like things to be, but it’s true in a practical 
> sense.
>
>
>
> The only time I saw a roofer on a house with a tied off safety harness was 
> Mike Holmes when he was on TV.  The speed limit is 55mph unless everybody 
> else is going 65mph.  And I suppose how much you pothole for buried pipes 
> becomes irrelevant if you didn’t hit any of them.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 4:53 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.
>
>
>
> theres law and then theres what guys do. here its 18 inches either side of 
> the outside of the mark.
>
>
>
> Reason why im anal about this is not liability, sure the guy who didnt 
> pothole is liable, but that irrelevant to the fact that the water is hit. if 
> my pipe is 40 inches and an accurate utility locator is used, i want it 
> reading at 40 inches, not 30 or 24 cause the trace was sloppy. Everybody from 
> start to finish should always do their jobs accurately, but operate under the 
> assumption that the guy before and the guy after did not and will not
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 3:28 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> Here, you have to pothole until you see the gas line.  I tell my guys that if 
> they have gone deeper and side to side to cover the whole 24” protected zone 
> then we are good to go.  But technically the Utah law says you have to have 
> “visual contact” with the thing you are crossing.
>
>
>
> From: Steve Jones
>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 1:05 PM
>
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.
>
>
>
> the vertical concern is based in the real world. A guy will believe his 
> locator and not pothole.
>
>
>
> by attached i mean a wrap or tape if its trench. you can get any pipe you 
> want to pay for. i dont know what plumbers can get embedded
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 8:56 AM Josh Luthman  
> wrote:
>
> Ohio is 18 inches and some people tell me neighboring states are 24 inches 
> horizontally.
>
>
>
> >The bug concern is vertical
>
>
>
> That's what I'm talking about - if you're below or above the 3 inch pipe, 
> that's a 3 inch variance.
>
>
>
> >If I was paying id spec the trace be attached to the product
>
>
>
> Can you get tracer wire built onto plumbing pipe?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 5:01 PM Steve Jones  wrote:
>
> if youre paying to be able to trace, that trace should be exact, no tolerance 
> on installation. My locator it most of the time dead on.  The bug concern is 
> vertical. If the pipe is sitting at 48" but the trace is coiled up to 24, 
> some yahoo isnt gonna pothole and drill under it. Nobody gives a shit about 
> liability when their utility is blasted, they want their utility back on. A 
> sloppy trace also causes cut tracers that dont get spliced. We are supposed 
> to pothole to the side of the mark to avoid hitting the utility top on.
>
> If I was paying id spec the trace be attached to the product
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 3:25 PM Josh Luthman  
> wrote:
>
> How big of a pipe would it have to be for that to be a concern?  I would 
> think ~3 inche

Re: [AFMUG] beet juice

[Chris Fabien]

What's your application for this?

On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 7:28 PM Steve Jones  wrote:
>
> where does a guy look to find beetjuice for lowering water freezepoint that 
> doesnt have other additives or salt in in? saline free beet brine if you 
> will. Is beet soluble enough to get in powder form?
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Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units

[Chris Fabien]

We have had mixed luck with ebay locators, and there is a pretty good
chance at them being stolen so getting repairs/service could be
troublesome. We ended up buying two new RD7200 they were around $5k
each. We also have a used 7100 and 8100 and have been through a few
RD4000. I would just buy a new one personally.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 5:31 PM Carl Peterson
 wrote:
>
> Thoughts on a used R7200 off of ebay vs something like a new Ridgid SR-24? 
> Trying to do this with a 4K budget.  Is a locator either good or bad or is 
> there a middle ground where they don't work well.
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 3:30 PM Steve Jones  wrote:
>>
>> there  is also the vermeer lin of locators. massive option set, LM42 is 
>> pretty efficient and can find most things in the  ISP domain. SPX25 is good 
>> for locating shallower thing. stuff like the 10x15 or 20x22 utility locator 
>> are surprisingly accurate for it having to be pretty pinpoint. But if you 
>> really want to be certain about finding the utilities on a smaller ISP 
>> budget, youd want to look at Bobcat brand locators, those will find 
>> everything.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 3:17 PM Carl Peterson  
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Any consensus on locators?  We need to buy a new one too.  The only one I 
>>> really know is the T5.  We don't do a ton of locates so it doesn't need to 
>>> be too high end.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 2:34 PM Jason McKemie 
>>>  wrote:

 I'm looking at getting one of these:

 https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/sr-24-line-locator-with-bluetooth-and-gps


 On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 8:59 AM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
> I'm looking to pickup a 2nd locating unit.  Without visiting a bunch of
> websites and wading through tech docs, does anyone have
> recommendations?  USIC around here uses a blue unit, but they're always
> so covered with spray paint I can't see the name/model.  We have an
> Amprobe AT-3500 today.  Looks like Amprobe has a newer model out, that's
> cheaper than the AT-3500
>
> Mainly need to locate either a tracer wire (alligator clips) or
> traceable fiber (Clamp)
>
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 --
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Carl Peterson
>>>
>>> PORT NETWORKS
>>>
>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>>>
>>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>>>
>>> (410) 637-3707
>>>
>>> --
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> PORT NETWORKS
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
>
> (410) 637-3707
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cisco SPA122

[Chris Fabien]

We have a good number of SPA112 in service still.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 5:33 PM  wrote:
>
> Does anyone here still use the Cisco SPA122?
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units

[Chris Fabien]

USIC Uses radiodetection gear, currently they are using the RD-8200.
We just bought a couple RD-7200 new this year and they are very nice
units. Fiber will always locate better if you can attach to the locate
terminal on a splice case vs using the induction clamp FYI.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 9:59 AM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
> I'm looking to pickup a 2nd locating unit.  Without visiting a bunch of
> websites and wading through tech docs, does anyone have
> recommendations?  USIC around here uses a blue unit, but they're always
> so covered with spray paint I can't see the name/model.  We have an
> Amprobe AT-3500 today.  Looks like Amprobe has a newer model out, that's
> cheaper than the AT-3500
>
> Mainly need to locate either a tracer wire (alligator clips) or
> traceable fiber (Clamp)
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] The Hartford claims

[Chris Fabien]

We have Hartford but do not have any smallish claims like that to know
what their response would be. I would be more concerned about making
any claim as a brand new company / policyholder. What's the $$ of the
damage in question. My general policy is for a damage that we were
really at fault, under maybe $3000ish I would just pay it. Same for a
damaged piece of equipment etc. Anything over $5k I would probably
make a claim. When we have had an at-fault claim, I have had success
in negotiating with the utility. Local power/gas co will knock off 25%
for prompt payment and asking nicely. Some utilities really inflate
the repair costs and others are very reasonable. If it's an inflated
bill I would have a discussion about that. We do get damage bills all
the time for telco cables that were mismarked and we hit and were not
at fault, those I tell them once we were not at fault and here is why
and then ignore them. Eventually they give up and stop bothering.


On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 2:32 PM Steve Jones  wrote:
>
> Any of you fine gents use the Hartford for general liability?
>
> Is there some method to talk to an agent with these guys without filing a 
> claim? Calling just circles me to claims agents, and they wont tell me 
> anything.
> Im just trying to find out what the impact of a small claim is with these 
> guys and whether its best to just pay out of pocket if the liability does 
> fall on me.
> I dont want to save a couple grand out of pocket to have my rates skyrocket 
> or coverage cancelled since its a new account, but then again, I pay for more 
> coverage than I need for what I do so its kind of a waste to not use it.
>
> If any of you guys have filed a claim with them, how smooth is the process?
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Re: [AFMUG] Datacenter power submetering

[Chris Fabien]

Forrest, Thanks for the suggestion on egauge, that looks like a nice
solution and reasonable cost.

Trying to do multiple actual utility meters presented some hurdles in
needing a PE to stamp a design, township zoning approval (several months),
and significant timing issues from the utility who is many months behind on
service installs and availability issues on the multi gang meter banks.
Plus it complicates having two large standby generators to A/B power all
the loads, I guess you need to use  seperate transfer switches for each
customer then?

Thanks,
Chris




On Sat, Oct 1, 2022, 4:34 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Many states require revenue grade metering if you're going to be metering
> via the kwh. This can get expensive.
>
> One option is to calculate what the maximum your customer can draw is
> based on 80% of the breaker size.   And charge based on that.
>
> 20A breaker, maximum continuous load of 16A, 16(amps) x 120(volts) x
> 24(hours) x 30(days) / 1000(kilo) = 1,382.4kwh.  At 10c per kwh, you can
> specify  $150/ month for this circuit, and specify a maximum continuous
> load of 16A.
>
> If you're only going to have 3 or 4 tenants, I'd put a meter pack in (like
> they have on apartments) and use real meters.  If you do it right, the
> utility company will just handle the billing.
>
> If you really do want to go the per circuit metering route, look at
> egauge.
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 1, 2022, 10:43 AM Chris Fabien  wrote:
>
>> We are remodeling our old office building into a datacenter with 2 or 3
>> tenants and a 2500 sqft general retail space. I want to be able to
>> sub-meter the power on a per-circuit basis, and ideally be able to assign a
>> group of circuits to each tenant they serve. I have seen some inexpensive
>> solution using small current transformers in the panel but they are
>> targeted at residential. The circuits needing to be metered will be from 20
>> to 200A feeds. Any solutions out there like this?
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Datacenter power submetering

[Chris Fabien]

It's flat rate power billing. But thats a good thought to keep in mind. We
currently have individual meters installed for the two colo racks but are
installing redundant generators and transfer switches, so makes the # of
meters double so I'll have like 12 seperate feeds at the start to meter and
that could increase as datacenter grows. I think it will be cleaner to have
two large panels and meter individual circuits vs a cascade of panels to
put a physical meter at each appropriate point.

On Sat, Oct 1, 2022, 3:20 PM Zach Underwood  wrote:

> Do you have a fixed cost per kwh or is time of use or different cost per
> kwh based on what bucket your overall usage.
>
> You have any other than  fixed cost per kwh then just wire everything in
> the same leased spaces to its own meter. If that retail space ends up being
> food service do you really want to foot the bill for their power usage when
> they hit peak traffic during peak power rates like at lunch time.
>
> On Sat, Oct 1, 2022 at 2:10 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Found by googling:
>> https://accucdn.accuenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/AcuRev-2100-Multi-Circuit-Submeter-Datasheet.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 1, 2022 11:41 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Datacenter power submetering
>>
>> We are remodeling our old office building into a datacenter with 2 or 3
>> tenants and a 2500 sqft general retail space. I want to be able to
>> sub-meter the power on a per-circuit basis, and ideally be able to assign a
>> group of circuits to each tenant they serve. I have seen some inexpensive
>> solution using small current transformers in the panel but they are
>> targeted at residential. The circuits needing to be metered will be from 20
>> to 200A feeds. Any solutions out there like this?
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
> My website <http://zachunderwood.me>
> advance-networking.com
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[AFMUG] Datacenter power submetering

[Chris Fabien]

We are remodeling our old office building into a datacenter with 2 or 3
tenants and a 2500 sqft general retail space. I want to be able to
sub-meter the power on a per-circuit basis, and ideally be able to assign a
group of circuits to each tenant they serve. I have seen some inexpensive
solution using small current transformers in the panel but they are
targeted at residential. The circuits needing to be metered will be from 20
to 200A feeds. Any solutions out there like this?
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Electronic question

[Chris Fabien]

I think you are correct about the cause of the issue, probably the
easiest solution is to leave the buzzer in the main circuit, and wire
a 24vac relay in parallel with it, using the relay contacts to close
and open the circuit to the ding-dong bell.

On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 10:08 AM  wrote:
>
> I know some of you are really good at this stuff…..
>
>
>
> I’m in a 95 year old house.  There are two doorbells.  I just replaced the 
> front doorbell with a new cheapo from Lowes.  Two chimes and two solenoids.  
> One solenoid fires when you press the button, and the other fires when you 
> release the button so you get the “ding-dong”.
>
>
>
> There’s an old doorbell in the back kitchen that sounds like an old school 
> bell.  Two coils make the clacker move rapidly back and forth striking the 
> bell repeatedly.
>
>
>
> Well, when I hooked up both the old and new bell at the same time, the school 
> bell goes off when you press the button and the new one just goes “dong” when 
> you release the button.  Either one works fine hooked up separately.  I’m 
> guessing the first solenoid never fires on the new doorbell because the 
> school bell is a way heavier load and takes all the current.  I could just 
> replace the school bell, but I kinda like the nostalgic factor.  And I 
> suppose the other easy answer is put them on separate transformers triggered 
> by the same switch.
>
>
>
> Is there some simple nerd-gineer answer like “just put a resistor here”?
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC service

[Chris Fabien]

We have a similar problem, we have wireless customers in an area that we
are over building with FTTH, and we no longer install new wireless service.
This trips an error because it wants to see wireless coverage. Have not got
a good response from them yet.

On Sun, Aug 28, 2022, 1:56 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:

> Yeah they definitely did not accommodate certain scenarios and force you
> into submitting inaccurate data either on the subscription side or the
> address locations side. Here is one we are commonly running into:
>
> The subscription file shows 1 subscriber in a tract. That tract is
> typically on the edge or even outside of the "normal" coverage area of the
> Wisp. Using our methodology and THEIR requirements for if a location is
> "serviceable" we did not find any locations in that tract. The 1 that shows
> up in the subscription file is typically a "one-off" case, like a 50ft pole
> or a tower in someone's back yard, the top of a grain silo, etc. These are
> not deemed "serviceable" by their requirements as they are not a "typical"
> installation that can be done within 10 days. So, to be in compliance with
> the requirements it is not reported. However, if you have no locations in a
> tract that shows up in the subscription file, you can't continue the
> filing.
>
> So there is a direct conflict with the two requirements. On one hand, you
> have to report the subscriber in your subscription. On the other, the
> location is technically not serviceable by their requirements so you can't
> report it in the addresses and because the tract is generally unserviceable
> anyway, no other locations show up. You either have to remove the tract
> from subscriptions, or add a point that doesn't qualify under their rules.
>
> I've emailed them 4 times about it and their only response was to tell me
> we must have geocoded our customer incorrectly. What? I don't even think
> they are reading my description of the problem.
>
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 11:24 AM Trey Scarborough  wrote:
>
>> Yeah, but this is kind of unheard of they didn't even require this type
>> of information back when they were doing all of this for phone lines. Its
>> too late now but if as a whole everyone would have said no we are not doing
>> this. If a majority of small ISPs didn't they would have a hard time
>> enforcing the 15k fines. That would leave a spoltlight on VZ, ATT,
>> Windstream, etc and there is no way their information is going to be
>> accurate either. Then it would have been made more apparent that the data
>> they are providing is garbage. When the underlying element of address
>> fabric is flawwed and not accurate especially in rural areas. I really
>> don't understand how they can expect the RF propagation and everything else
>> to be accurate.
>>
>>
>> On 8/25/22 2:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> Not filing is a bad decision.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 2:55 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:
>>
>>> cheat has a special section for this . Look at the bottom left. You have
>>> to build your speed tier to signal strength mappings so they can export
>>> polygons for your speed tiers. It's a bit different from just the regular
>>> runs. If you have cheat polygons, we can prep your stuff pretty quickly as
>>> we don't have to do all the analysis. It's basically your contact info,
>>> what services you are filing for and then your polygon and fabric uploads.
>>>
>>> Cameron
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 1:45 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The companies doing the BDC filings
 What data, specifically are they going to need from us to do the filing?
 Im trying to get the export out of CnHeat, but I still need to get more
 sites into it and I havent even started the whole subscription side
 Anybody just not filing?
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>>
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[AFMUG] Larger Standby Generators

[Chris Fabien]

Our main datacenter has for years had a single 11kw residential style
generac. Due to increasing power load and improving redundancy I want to
upgrade to dual larger generators.

Trying to decide between new 22kw air cooled residential units or used
larger liquid cooled commercial style units. Maybe one of each. Building
has 200A single phase service so ~50kw is the max that would make sense.

I am leaning towards used commercial style units but not sure how the
controls/ATS work, and if there is a concern of being able to fish the
correct transfer switch for an older generator, or if they are fairly
universal. Have only installed whole kits from generac before.

Thanks for any input.
Chris
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Re: [AFMUG] Release of Liability Review

[Chris Fabien]

I wouldn't sign either if I were a homeowner. I think you need to more
clearly define what you will and won't do, and what you can and cannot
reasonably avoid. For example, you can reasonably avoid a private
power run to an out building if the homeowner discloses it's
existence, you should have equipment to locate the exact path/depth.
Other things that are not locatable, what we do is put the
responsibility on the homeowner to locate & expose. We typically have
to do this for drainage lines, dog fence wires etc. And you definitely
do want a disclaimer of liability for hitting something that was not
disclosed and you would have no way to know of it's existence.
Whether that disclaimer would stand up in court is another issue. I
also think telling the homeowner they are responsible for future
erosion control is going too far, your crew should be doing enough
restoration to stabilize the ground and get grass growing again.


On Sat, Aug 13, 2022 at 11:15 AM Steve Jones  wrote:
>
> You guys who do this want to review this and tell me what im missing. Ive 
> sent it to the attorney for review but shes more an estate attorney, so may 
> be that there are some gotchas im missing. I dont like that its 2 pages, but 
> I like liability even less.
> This is more for residential, small commercial and WISP/FISP work . I assume 
> if I get into a bigger drill and bigger work, those contracts will address 
> all that.
>
> Thanks in advance
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Re: [AFMUG] Type of Fiber to pull through Poly

[Chris Fabien]

Flat drop would be fine for this, use tonable if you need a locate method.

On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 2:27 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
> I need to pull 12 strand fiber through a 1.25" poly.  About 1500' and 4
> handholes.  It's been a couple years since we've done physical fiber
> installation underground, and that was mostly 128 strand. Should I get a
> flat drop cable, or would a different type be better?  Flat vs round?
> The handholes are only 18x30, so not very big.  The 48 Strand that's
> coiled in the handholes now takes most of the space.   It'll be an empty
> poly that this line runs through.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Door Access Control System (self-install, self-hosted)

[Chris Fabien]

I just installed the ubnt access system. Already had unifi and the right
controller box. Easy install. Works fine. I think their video reader might
have an access code option but we just used the lite reader.

On Thu, Jun 16, 2022, 2:02 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Before I get pissed and just make something (which is how many of my
> products start).
>
> Is there a good door access system which meets the following requirements:
>
> 1) I can actually buy as a mere mortal and not a "security system
> installer"
> 2) Is self-hosted and doesn't require an internet connection to operate
> 3) Supports both keypad and NFC card and/or phone access
>
> Mainly I'm looking for a good old-fashioned door access system where I can
> put a door controller in and put a latch lock on the door and have staff
> come and go either with some sort of NFC access or have a keypad to enter
> (if someone forgets their NFC or for third-party access to the facility
> where needed).
>
> It seems like either I have to be an installer, or it has to be an
> internet-connected thing, or has a monthly fee.
>
> I am aware of the unifi stuff from UBNT, not sure how I feel about that,
> but if I don't find another option, I'll give that a try.   If someone has
> that in place, let me know as I'm curious how well it works.
>
> --
> - Forrest
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Re: [AFMUG] Utility Pole Rating

[Chris Fabien]

I think for antenna mounting your limiting criteria may not be the
pole strength related to it breaking but the stiffness related to
antenna deflection during wind events mis-aligning your antennas. If
you're only mounting APs it would be less of an issue than for a
backhaul.

On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 9:03 AM  wrote:
>
> Yeah, I think my frustration with this in the past was that what I really 
> wanted to know was "how many sq feet of antenna can I put on this pole", but 
> the sources are often more technical than that.  Or if they've presented a 
> rule of thumb it's more about size of strand not size of antenna.
>
> I think we eventually arrived at the idea that a class 3 pole could carry 
> more antenna than we could realistically fit on it, so we bought class 3 and 
> didn't worry about it anymore.
>
> If the pole already has wireline utilities on it, then engineering the load 
> is part of the attachment application process and we're paying for that 
> whether the load is a wire or an antenna so figuring that out is built in to 
> the process.
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2022 7:48 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Cc: Chuck McCown 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Utility Pole Rating
>
> As I recall there is a chart or graph that boils it down to a class and 
> length to wind load.  I remember having to determine the load of my planned 
> cable.  The RUS had a great manual about it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 15, 2022, at 10:05 PM, Jason McKemie 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > So, as far as I can tell l, utility poles are rated by their moment
> > capacity vs. wind loading. Am I interpreting this correctly? If so, is
> > there a way to get an approximate wind loading number from the moment
> > capacity? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] underground footage expectations

[Chris Fabien]

We have pretty favorable conditions for both drilling/plowing. We do
work in house and also hire some out. Last year we paid $5-8/ft for
drilling and $1.50-2/ft for plowing. Production, when I drill with one
other guy locating, in open ground we can usually do >1000ft in a full
day although often it's more like 6-7 shorter bores in the same day.
Plowing, it's all based on how many obstacles. We usually do 1/3 or
1/2 mile a day but that's with crossing a few obstacles, drains,
ditches etc. The plow itself can run at ~1mph in easy ground so that's
not the limiting factor.

On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 12:54 PM Steve Jones  wrote:
>
> whether it be crewed or contracted, where do you sit rule of thumb on footage 
> expectations on average. I know conditions, soil types, all that have a 
> factor to play, but where do you start to cringe on production? ducted fiber, 
> direct bury, city and rural.
>
> What you contracted comfort zone per foot on each? how low per foot before 
> you get suspicious, (as in some guy coming in telling you he can put in for 
> you at 10 cents a foot in downtown chicago)
>
> Im looking for numbers excluding the material since that can vary more than 
> soil type
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Re: [AFMUG] GIS

[Chris Fabien]

Cameron, I'm curious how you feel manifold compares to mapinfo. I use
mapinfo to do our fiber plans, mainly just drawing lines/points/text
on aerial photo and parcel data layers and exporting to PDF via layout
one sheet at a time. It's slow and cumbersome, but it's paid for and I
know it. Would Manifold give me the same abilities and be
faster/easier? Thanks for your input!

On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 8:36 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
> I second Brian's recommendations on QGIS and Manifold. If you want really 
> powerful GIS functions, Manifold is the best system, hands down. I would 
> never use Arc or MapInfo again after using manifold and I used to be a 
> MapInfo trainer. Both QGIS and Manifold can link to external SQL DBs so you 
> could probably build layers of customer point data with pop-up labels that 
> contain customer info or create thematic maps based on certain values, etc, 
> if you are looking for quick visuals.
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 6:31 PM Steve Jones  wrote:
>>
>> i use qgis and love it, its dolt friendly and will even render. albeit 
>> slowly on my laptop
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 5:58 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>>>
>>> Are there samples/examples that will help me not have to learn too much?  
>>> Like a map with data that I can splice in my map and data.  I am a lazy man.
>>>
>>> From: Forrest Christian (List Account)
>>> Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 4:54 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Cc: Chuck McCown
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] GIS
>>>
>>> I use qgis (open source).  A bit of a learning curve but it's amazingly 
>>> functional.
>>>
>>> There is also manifold which is dirt cheap as far as GIS is concerned.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2022, 4:44 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

 Anyone here use GIS?  Thinking of a blend of a map and customer info.  Too 
 cheap for ESRI.  Are there alternates?
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: business loans

[Chris Fabien]

We have a local bank that was willing to do a 5 year loan for working
capital on a fiber build that was partially grant funded. 5% interest.
Maybe we got lucky but we had our books in order and had done a
projected cashflow study as part of the grant and they easily
understood why the project and loan made sense.

On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 9:51 AM Josh Luthman  wrote:
>
> There's only one business loan writer at the "local" bank here (Wright Patt 
> Credit Union).  We went to baseball games, we'd talk when we walked past each 
> other, done several vehicle loans, had a line of credit for years after it 
> was supposed to have closed.
>
> She went from $30k unsecured for a building loan to getting it rejected by 
> the committee.  She was clearly upset with them and was debating about 
> leaving them after the last ~18 months.  This was the middle of 2021 when 
> they had a huge hard on for PPP loans.  They didn't even want to lend money 
> to buy land and a building.
>
> Even if you know them personally, there's some sort of stop gap.
>
> Moral of the story, fiber building means Live Oak Bank and maybe CoBack in 
> the future as far as I'm concerned.
>
> On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 3:15 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>>
>> OK, my “local” bank is pretty large.  Zions.  But we do know the local 
>> branch manager, and all the employees.  I don’t deal with the small truly 
>> local banks.  I will amend this to you should get to know your banker.
>>
>> From: Mark Radabaugh
>> Sent: Friday, February 4, 2022 12:47 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: business loans
>>
>> Tried that myself, in the end it wasn’t worth a shit. Probably spent 15 
>> years grooming a local bank.They were more than happy to take our 
>> deposits, give us auto and real estate loans but when it came to fiber it 
>> was a completely different story.
>>
>> In the end they were worthless.   Ended up going with Live Oak, who has been 
>> great to work with.
>>
>> Skip the local guys - they don’t understand anything that isn’t real estate 
>> or vehicles. Get your books in order, do proper accrual accounting, quit 
>> expensing everything, and go find a bank that knows the industry.
>>
>> Stop wasting your time with the idiots.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2022, at 9:00 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>>
>> That’s important: “was on first name basis with VP and loan officer... “
>>
>> You gotta get a local bank, stick with it and get to know them and them get 
>> to know you.  Makes a huge difference.
>>
>> From: Jaime Solorza
>> Sent: Thursday, February 3, 2022 5:30 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: business loans
>>
>> When I started my company in 1992, I had some large purchase orders from 
>> Johnson & Johnson plus GE Capcom which I used to receive loans from bank.  
>> Had to get them signed over to bank at first but after a few large orders, 
>> the bank gave me a $100,000.00 credit line to get ramped up...Always paid on 
>> time and never abused it...was on first name basis with VP and loan 
>> officer...
>> Not sure if banks are this open to help small businesses anymore...can't 
>> hurt to trygood luck
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 3, 2022, 3:18 PM Steve Jones  wrote:
>>>
>>> Ive never done business loans before, just mortgage and personal.
>>>
>>> Do lenders consider contracts to be future revenue?
>>>
>>> Where is the best type of lender to look for with no business history? The 
>>> local lender with the mortgages and local personal loans? National lenders? 
>>> What about if 2021 deatroyed your personal credit to a fair rating, is a 
>>> business loan even an option even with a contract exceeding the loan amount 
>>> by 80 percent?
>>>
>>> Is the sba an actual resource to invest time into for starting something 
>>> up, or is it like BBB.
>>>
>>>
>>> Aside from the loan question, when getting into underground work (laying 
>>> pipe, and cablework) what expenses outside labor, insurance, 
>>> maintenance(vehicle, equipment, staff lodging/per diem, fuel, etc), 
>>> tax/workmans comp, etc do you come across? If you dont own the duct.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> 
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>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Calix E7-2 dial plan

[Chris Fabien]

Hi Carl
Here is what we are using on our E7s. Note this does not support
7-digit dialling as we are in an area where that was mandated to be
removed. But it does allow 10 and 11 digit calls.
Note that the order of these rules matters, it matches top down.
^911n
^411
^988
^[2-9][0-9]{9}
^1[2-9][0-9]{9}
^011[0-9]*T
^S[0-9]{2}


On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 4:07 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies
 wrote:
>
> Carl,
>
> yes they are three different rules.  I think the standard is using the | as 
> an or operator
> --
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Wednesday, January 26, 2022, 3:24:12 PM, you wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Mark,  I'm not quite getting that.  Would that be three rules like:
> ^[2-9][11]
> ^*xx
> ^x,T
>
> On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 2:06 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies  
> wrote:
>
> Carl,
>
> This is what I'm using on my zhone
>
> [2-9]11|*xx|x.T
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Wednesday, January 26, 2022, 2:59:58 PM, you wrote:
>
>
> Anyone have a working dial plan off an E7-2 they can share?  I can't get 10 
> digit dialing to work without a 1 in front of it.
>
> ^911n
> ^411n
> ^811n
> ^1[2-9][0-9]{9}   <--- 10 digit dialing with 1 works
> ^011[0-9]*T
> ^[2-9][0-9]{9}   <--- 10 digit dialing without 1 won't work
> ^[2-9][0-9]{6} <-- 7 digit dialing in the area code works
> ^S[0-9]{2}
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>
>
> --
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> PORT NETWORKS
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
> Baltimore, MD 21202
> (410) 637-3707
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Re: [AFMUG] CWDM vs DWDM, Single Fiber vs Dual fiber

[Chris Fabien]

If there may ever be an opportunity to use this path to connect to another
network via a handhole meet, you should try to use the same technology on
your side. We have two handhole meets where a carrier drops a DWDM 10G wave
out from longhaul and we take it into an add drop module and into our DWDM
transport back to a CO or cabinet. No power or cabinet or anything needed
at the meet point.

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 4:44 PM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> We are leasing a few new strands of dark to a couple locations.  On our
> other paths we have just Done BiDi for our ring or payload and used another
> for our routed/management network.  For these strands, I'm thinking of
> doing passive WDM.
>
> Any benefit to DWDM vs CWDM if you aren't expecting to scale it?  Why
> would you use two strands vs one strand?  We generally use one strand for
> everything, either BiDi or GPON so my brain just sort of assumes that.
> What am I missing?
>
> --
>
> https://www.fs.com/products/43711.html?attribute=4364&id=297095
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Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit

[Chris Fabien]

Chuck, Interesting idea. Does this scale up to long distances like
blowing does? Water seems like it would have a lot more resistance in
a mile of 1.25" pipe but perhaps with 200psi behind it that's no
issue?

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 3:46 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> Right, they are always full of water.
> I made a proofing dart with a cup seal at the end.
> 20 GPM 200 PSI moves it along at about 5 feet per second.  The pump was 
> remarkably cheap to build.
>
> The cable or mule tape is buoyant so that reduces friction and the water does 
> too.  I have read about this for years but never tried it.
>
> From: TJ Trout
> Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 1:37 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>
> Underground condit gets filled with water from condensation anyway, so I'm 
> sure he doesn't clean it out. I'm assuming he's using a dart and pushing it 
> with water to pull cable in?
>
> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 12:34 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>> I don't understand how that works (with water). Seems like it would be a
>> pain to get it out? or do you just leave it in there?
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 11/8/2021 11:59 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> > Cheap is a selling point for me.  We have started to put stuff down
>> > conduit with water rather than air.  So far it is much better than air.
>> >
>> > -Original Message- From: Chris Fabien
>> > Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 10:33 AM
>> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >
>> > I would just use normal duct of whatever size is appropriate . That
>> > just doesn't look as sturdy as solid wall of plastic. Looks like being
>> > more flexible is the key selling point.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 7:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> No, not smurf tube.  It is corrugated micro duct.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> On Nov 4, 2021, at 4:02 PM, Josh Luthman
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> 
>> >> The cheap stuff from Home Depot?  That sounds like a nightmare.
>> >>
>> >> Josh Luthman
>> >> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> >> 1100 Wayne St
>> >> Suite 1337
>> >> Troy, OH 45373
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 4:08 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> There is HDPE versions that are designed for direct burial.
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Bill Prince
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 2:04 PM
>> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> That orange stuff? I would not think it is outdoor rated, nor would
>> >>> it hold up if buried.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> bp
>> >>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> On 11/4/2021 12:56 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Conduit.  Like 1/2” corrugated microduct.
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Bill Prince
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 1:41 PM
>> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> You talking about conduit or culvert?
>> >>>
>> >>> We replaced all of our old corrugated (galvanized)  culvert(s) with
>> >>> the plastic stuff that's corrugated on the outside and smooth wall
>> >>> on the inside. Way better stuff because it doesn't trap stuff.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> bp
>> >>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> On 11/4/2021 12:30 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Anyone have any opinions about using cheap corrugated conduit for
>> >>> areas where the ditch is already open?
>> >>> I have never used it.  I worry it is not terribly strong and you
>> >>> probably can’t blow it.
>> >>>
>> >>> 
>> >>> --
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>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >>>
>> >>> 
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>> >>
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Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit

[Chris Fabien]

I would just use normal duct of whatever size is appropriate . That
just doesn't look as sturdy as solid wall of plastic. Looks like being
more flexible is the key selling point.

On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 7:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> No, not smurf tube.  It is corrugated micro duct.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 4, 2021, at 4:02 PM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
>
> 
> The cheap stuff from Home Depot?  That sounds like a nightmare.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 4:08 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>>
>> There is HDPE versions that are designed for direct burial.
>>
>> From: Bill Prince
>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 2:04 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>>
>>
>> That orange stuff? I would not think it is outdoor rated, nor would it hold 
>> up if buried.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 11/4/2021 12:56 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> Conduit.  Like 1/2” corrugated microduct.
>>
>> From: Bill Prince
>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 1:41 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>>
>>
>> You talking about conduit or culvert?
>>
>> We replaced all of our old corrugated (galvanized)  culvert(s) with the 
>> plastic stuff that's corrugated on the outside and smooth wall on the 
>> inside. Way better stuff because it doesn't trap stuff.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 11/4/2021 12:30 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> Anyone have any opinions about using cheap corrugated conduit for areas 
>> where the ditch is already open?
>> I have never used it.  I worry it is not terribly strong and you probably 
>> can’t blow it.
>>
>> 
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>>
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Billing for underground damage

[Chris Fabien]

The damages we have been paid on, we have not submitted much of a
detailed bill. Simple description of the damaged facilities, relevant
facts, and Cost to Repair: $.xx.
Have been paid by local power company, auto insurance, and our
customers. Have an $8000 damage invoice out to local road commission
currently for mowing 3 pedestals and may have to fight on that one.
Good luck!

On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 6:43 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> Depends on the company.  I generally get a check in about a month or two
> from smaller guys.  Larger companies you may have to gin up a small clams
> complaint and fire it across their bow to get their attention.  If they
> ignore it just file the thing.  They probably will not show to the hearing
> if they are dusting you off.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Nate Burke
> Sent: Tuesday, November 2, 2021 1:56 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing for underground damage
>
> How long does it usually take for the offending company to payout?  It's
> a nationwide contractor.  Is it a year long process of them submitting
> to their insurance and just waiting through bureaucracy?
>
> On 7/23/2021 2:35 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> > I bill for time and materials as if I was making the repair for someone
> > else.  That means marked up materials and profit on top of loaded payroll
> > expense.  You can bill for whatever you want but if you have to litigate
> > it best to just try to get yourself whole.  If you have proof it was
> > painted prior to damage it will help a bunch.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Jul 23, 2021, at 12:52 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:
> >>
> >> Not sure if this varies state to state, how do you bill for damage to
> >> underground facilities?  A large contractor hit one of our marked
> >> underground lines twice in 4 days while putting in a new conduit.
> >>
> >> Do you send them a simple invoice with a dollar amount, a fully itemized
> >> time/materials bill?  We haven't had a hit of this scale before, so I'm
> >> not sure what they would be expecting.  I'm guessing they deal with this
> >> on a daily basis, probably have a whole team to deal with claims.  Just
> >> not sure what documentation/invoices we need to send them.
> >>
> >> Can you bill for the time the customers were down, or purely for the
> >> repair?
> >>
> >> --
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> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] before and after VFL

[Chris Fabien]

I have had a fiber break in a splice case weeks after it was spliced,
similar to this pic. All I could reason was pre-existing scratch or
kink or something that I didn't notice and it finally broke from temp
cycling or vibration, both of which are pretty minimal in a handhole
but it did happen.

On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 2:36 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> You can see the kink if you look at the before photo.  This drop had been
> operational for months.  Then just one day it quit working.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2021 12:32 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Cc: Chuck McCown
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] before and after VFL
>
> Didn't get the after.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2021 9:11 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Cc: Chuck McCown
> Subject: [AFMUG] before and after VFL
>
> With and without VFL
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Long run - low draw batteries for Regen locations

[Chris Fabien]

TJ got any links or shopping lists for a solid lithium pack solution
for a low draw application like this? We have a regen cabinet going in
soon pretty much same situation except I haven't chose the switch yet
so could be DC.

On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 12:45 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
> if it's carrier grade, you can swap the psu's to dc normally... your going to 
> need a large system, I would spring for lithium as the TCO will be much lower 
> since they last forever
>
> On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 9:34 AM Paul McCall  wrote:
>>
>> Unfortunately it is existing gear, running on 110
>>
>>
>>
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of TJ Trout
>> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2021 12:29 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Long run - low draw batteries for Regen locations
>>
>>
>>
>> DC would be the most common and what the carriers use, more efficient so the 
>> batteries are smaller for the same run time.
>>
>>
>>
>> No magical improvements in backup, your going to need 5kw of battery to be 
>> safe (12v 100ah x 4)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 9:25 AM Paul McCall  wrote:
>>
>> We have a couple Regen locations we are lighting up.  The draw (110vac) will 
>> be around 1amp.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am looking forward to a backup system that will run for 24 hours at that 
>> current draw.
>>
>>
>>
>> Haven’t shopped UPS like this in a few years.  I am assuming there are some 
>> wiz-bang solutions for that now 😊
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul McCall, President
>>
>> Florida Broadband / PDMNet
>>
>> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>>
>> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>>
>> 772-564-6800
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cable Ties

[Chris Fabien]

We like Frosty Ties from US Cable Ties.

On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 12:32 PM Matt  wrote:
>
> What is everyone's favorite cables ties? Prefer ones that don't snap
> after a few years in UV.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Momentum Telcom?

[Chris Fabien]

Jay, an obvious cut, like a backhoe dug up a cable or a pole taken out
by an accident, maybe 8-12 hours or so, yea. The cut we just
experienced was a number of broken strands at different places along a
mile or so of aerial cable. They spent a lot of time troubleshooting
where the breaks were and then actually repairing took I think about 6
hours, they ended up replacing a 3/4 mile section. Never got
information about what actually caused the damage on that one. I've
also heard some stories locally of extended repair times due to
flooding, where a road (and a cable) was washed out and it took
several days to even regain access to the site to start working on
repairs.

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 10:27 AM CBB - Jay Fuller
 wrote:
>
>
> Oh, i've been following details.  They're putting another redundant 
> connection in at the other side of their electric coverage area and are 
> planning on connecting the two sides but they aren't finished with 
> construction yet.  I wasn't aware fiber connections can take a long time to 
> repair.  I figured the average was eight hours or so.  Per their update, "a 
> problem exists at the core".  I had never heard of Momentum, I wondered if 
> they actually went under or something.  I appreciate the dialogue.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Chris Fabien
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 9:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Momentum Telcom?
>
> Is it really two full days of outage or just, on it's second day today?
> As I'm sure you know it's very possible for a fiber cut to take more
> than 24 hours to restore. We had a windstream cut recently that took
> 30 hours. And, our other carrier had a maintenance event overnight
> that same night they couldn't delay! But luckily it was just for a few
> hours at night. Working on a 3rd diverse path now.
> This sounds like they are still single homed which in current times,
> really seems irresponsible especially for a company with as much
> resources as an electric coop should have. I'd have some anonymous
> accounts start a discussion of where's your backup connection on their
> FB group if you want to play nasty.
>
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 9:54 AM CBB - Jay Fuller
>  wrote:
> >
> >
> > and after their outage on june 3 i offered them a backup connection.  we 
> > are located across the street from them.
> > they sent me a nasty email basically saying their pages were for 
> > communicating with their customers and they were
> > not interested.
> >
> > we are both building - but i don't really want to have an adversarial 
> > relationship with them
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: Josh Luthman
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 8:40 AM
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Momentum Telcom?
> >
> > Do you have a link to the Facebook posts/original source of these posts?
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 9:34 AM CBB - Jay Fuller 
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> The local electric coop who is building a fiber network "to connect their 
> >> substations" and will serve anyone they pass has been offline now for two 
> >> days.  Their provider is apparently this company.
> >>
> >> Any back story or inside info?
> >>
> >> from their facebook -
> >>
> >> 8/9/2021 - 8/10/2021
> >> 6:00 AM Update:
> >> Overnight communications with our carrier have yielded no results. 
> >> Unfortunately, we still do not have an ETA on when the outage will be 
> >> resolved. Please know our board, management, and Sprout team find this is 
> >> as unacceptable as you do and this is not how we treat our subscribers. We 
> >> will make this right. We will ensure this type of issue does not occur 
> >> again.
> >> __
> >> 8:00 PM Update:
> >> Guys, we are so very sorry for this outage! The information we've received 
> >> so far is that the carrier has their engineers testing the connection and 
> >> the only explanation is "difficulties at the core." It's not good news as 
> >> we still have not been giving a cause, location or ETA. We will continue 
> >> to work with the carrier until the issue is resolved and all of our 
> >> subscribers are back online. We know everyone's patience, including ours, 
> >> is wearing thin 

Re: [AFMUG] Momentum Telcom?

[Chris Fabien]

Is it really two full days of outage or just, on it's second day today?
As I'm sure you know it's very possible for a fiber cut to take more
than 24 hours to restore. We had a windstream cut recently that took
30 hours. And, our other carrier had a maintenance event overnight
that same night they couldn't delay! But luckily it was just for a few
hours at night. Working on a 3rd diverse path now.
This sounds like they are still single homed which in current times,
really seems irresponsible especially for a company with as much
resources as an electric coop should have. I'd have some anonymous
accounts start a discussion of where's your backup connection on their
FB group if you want to play nasty.

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 9:54 AM CBB - Jay Fuller
 wrote:
>
>
> and after their outage on june 3 i offered them a backup connection.  we are 
> located across the street from them.
> they sent me a nasty email basically saying their pages were for 
> communicating with their customers and they were
> not interested.
>
> we are both building - but i don't really want to have an adversarial 
> relationship with them
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Josh Luthman
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 8:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Momentum Telcom?
>
> Do you have a link to the Facebook posts/original source of these posts?
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 9:34 AM CBB - Jay Fuller  
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> The local electric coop who is building a fiber network "to connect their 
>> substations" and will serve anyone they pass has been offline now for two 
>> days.  Their provider is apparently this company.
>>
>> Any back story or inside info?
>>
>> from their facebook -
>>
>> 8/9/2021 - 8/10/2021
>> 6:00 AM Update:
>> Overnight communications with our carrier have yielded no results. 
>> Unfortunately, we still do not have an ETA on when the outage will be 
>> resolved. Please know our board, management, and Sprout team find this is as 
>> unacceptable as you do and this is not how we treat our subscribers. We will 
>> make this right. We will ensure this type of issue does not occur again.
>> __
>> 8:00 PM Update:
>> Guys, we are so very sorry for this outage! The information we've received 
>> so far is that the carrier has their engineers testing the connection and 
>> the only explanation is "difficulties at the core." It's not good news as we 
>> still have not been giving a cause, location or ETA. We will continue to 
>> work with the carrier until the issue is resolved and all of our subscribers 
>> are back online. We know everyone's patience, including ours, is wearing 
>> thin due to the lack of information and resolution. We will pass along any 
>> new information as it becomes available.
>> _
>> 4:30 PM Update:
>> We have sent an email communication to all of our subscribers with 
>> additional information, including the notice that a bill credit will be 
>> issued for this outage. Please check the email associated with your Sprout 
>> Account. Unfortunately, the short answer is we still do not have an ETA of 
>> when service will be restored and we still do not know the cause. The issue 
>> is in the connection from Atlanta via an internet carrier to us. There is no 
>> damage or cause on our side of the connection.
>> __
>> 1:30 PM Update:
>> We do not have an estimated time for service restoration. We are 
>> communicating with our service provider, and as soon as we hear any new 
>> information from them, we will let you know.
>> __
>> We are experiencing an internet outage from our provider that is impacting 
>> all of our subscribers. We are getting more information and will report 
>> updates here.
>>
>>
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>
> 
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Building a CO

[Chris Fabien]

Brad, we have, the building will be back at least 100ft from road and
is 800ft from the intersection. Luckily all our fiber is underground
so we should be pretty safe there.

 Adam, good point on the leaks. I was thinking about doing the walls
as poured concrete using those forms that look like brick on the
exterior. Attractive and super strong, I'm not sure where that puts me
as far as insulation though. I wonder if they could form and pour a
concrete ceiling/roof as well. This is definitely going to be  strong
construction, not just a shed or 2x4 walls etc.

Grounding, I had not given much thought there. If my fiber coming into
the building is dielectric does that make it less important to go to a
telco style grounding system? I would have just done NEC grounding for
the electrical service.

On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 10:26 AM Aeron Wireless  wrote:
>
> I'm sure you've considered your "exposure" to the roadway. My fiber upstream 
> had a major outage as all of their fiber to one of two COs was at this pole. 
> Underground joined aerial at this pole. All fibers then led to the CO behind 
> the building. So while the building was safe from the roadway, they had a 
> single point of failure at that pole.
>
> On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 9:58 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>> Steel roofing and siding are zero maintenance and long lasting. A
>> shingled roof and T111 siding are cheaper, but nobody will be there to
>> tell you if it's leaking.  You'll find out when something dies.
>>
>>
>> On 7/28/2021 9:39 AM, Chris Fabien wrote:
>> > We need to upgrade a roadside FTTH cabinet to a small building. I've
>> > never started from scratch before. It will house maybe 2 racks of
>> > equipment. I'm thinking 10x15 or 10x20 footprint. I know a used tower
>> > shelter is an option but I'm leaning towards a real building, maybe
>> > concrete for tornado resistance.
>> >
>> > Probably two small Mini Splits for cooling.  Power, I'm not sure,
>> > probably dual 48v system although we may have some 120 equipment.
>> > Propane backup generator or course. Probably needs some propane heat
>> > also for winter in Michigan but maybe I could just run the right mini
>> > split and some electric heat for super cold days.
>> >
>> > Interested in any other ideas and what stuff do I need to consider
>> > that's not even on my radar.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Chris
>> >
>>
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[AFMUG] Building a CO

[Chris Fabien]

We need to upgrade a roadside FTTH cabinet to a small building. I've
never started from scratch before. It will house maybe 2 racks of
equipment. I'm thinking 10x15 or 10x20 footprint. I know a used tower
shelter is an option but I'm leaning towards a real building, maybe
concrete for tornado resistance.

Probably two small Mini Splits for cooling.  Power, I'm not sure,
probably dual 48v system although we may have some 120 equipment.
Propane backup generator or course. Probably needs some propane heat
also for winter in Michigan but maybe I could just run the right mini
split and some electric heat for super cold days.

Interested in any other ideas and what stuff do I need to consider
that's not even on my radar.

Thanks,
Chris

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Re: [AFMUG] Fax line replacement

[Chris Fabien]

We use FaxSIPit for this. It is an HTTPS relay method and works well.
Number porting is done manually but they handle it quickly, their
porting coverage is maybe not as great as say Voip Innovations
coverage. They do have support available that knows the system and can
resolve issues. The only change from the user standpoint is that they
may have to dial area code where they didn't have to previously, and
you need to set the fax machine to not print a confirmation, FaxSIPit
will fax them back a confirmation when the fax is delivered. Since
it's faxing twice it takes like about 2-3 minutes for a fax to go
through and get a confirmation.
Chris

On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 9:39 AM Paul McCall  wrote:
>
> For you guys doing a lot of VoIP, what Internet based faxed service are you 
> having good success with, cost effectively?
>
>
>
> Being able to reach someone and easily port numbers is important obviously.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> Florida Broadband / PDMNet
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] GPON through MUX?

[Chris Fabien]

Adam,
GPON is 1310/1490. There are definitely ways to overlay DWDM. We
overlay 1550 RF video over our GPON and it's probably a way wider
signal than DWDM would be.

On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 4:33 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> GPON is 1490 down and 1550 up
>
> I've been using CWDM which overlaps that.  I hadn't looked at DWDM.
>
> DWDM C band is 1525-1565 which would overlap.
>
> DWDM L band is 1570-1625.so yeah I guess a DWDM MUX that only
> touched L-Band might pass GPON through.  Maybe I've been looking at it
> through the wrong lens.
>
>
> On 4/2/2021 4:24 PM, Cassidy B. Larson wrote:
> > Cant you just use a dwdm with expansion port? everything not in the dwdm 
> > range would get spit out the expansion port (gpon).
> >
> >> On Apr 2, 2021, at 2:15 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> >>
> >> Why isn't there a MUX that carries GPON on one port and then also allows 
> >> me a few ethernet paths on other wavelengths?  I feel like this would be a 
> >> really useful thing for people leasing dark fiber, so I can't fathom why 
> >> it's not a commodity item.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti AP replacement

[Chris Fabien]

Upgrade the M5 AP to a rocket 5AC with the updated firmware on the stations
will work well and give you a significant performance improvement on a
loaded M5 AP.


On Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 5:54 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Yes, the AC APs are backwards compatible. You can't connect an airmax AC
> client to an N AP, but N clients to AC APs works fine. I'd replace it with
> a Rocket 5AC Prism.
>
> If it hadn't been killed off, ePMP Elevate would be the smart thing to do,
> but yeah...
>
> On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 2:49 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Will an AC rocket work with older N stations?
>>
>>
>> On 2/12/2021 3:45 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> We would deploy epmp + elevate.  They can't sell any more licenses after
>> Jan 1 though...
>>
>> If you can't replace the CPE, I guess just another Rocket M5?
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 3:40 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What radio are you using to replace Rocket M5s that will work with Nano
>>> and PowerBeams? Thanks
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Re: [AFMUG] router programming

[Chris Fabien]

With that list of specs I would be comfortable using a Tik CCR. If you want
to start doing multiple upstream with full tables BGP I would go to
Juniper. We just finally switched our edge routing to Juniper and it really
should have been a couple years ago.

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 5:52 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> It is looking like I may be starting yea another new ISP.  DIA on fiber.
> Upstream provider announcing my IPs and doing BGP for me.
>
> Router(s) feeding Calix E7-20
> DHCP
> DNS
> What else do I need?
> Router based NAT or server based NAT?
> Server based router?
>
> Like to keep it simple but fully redundant.
>
> (All the infrastructure, DC, building, Generator, hvac etc etc is easy,
> not asking about any of that).
>
> A pair of routers for redundancy.  I was just going to call Dennis and say
> “fix me up” but I am a bit gun shy about MT anymore.  Thinking Juniper but
> nobody here has much experience with programing edge/core routing
> irrespective of the brand of router.
>
> Anyone want to consult on this and do our router setup?
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Re: [AFMUG] Need a 200-400 watt load

[Chris Fabien]

I killed a Tripp-Lite UPS once using a 750 watt space heater to try to
load test. Their excuse was spike of inrush as heater element heated
up. Sounded like BS to me and they did RMA it but anyway if you use
light bulbs I'd plug them in one at a time to avoid a similar
situation.

On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 10:31 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> I've used a heat gun with a "low" setting.
>
> Hair dryer might be about the same.
>
> On 1/7/2021 9:57 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> My UPS needs to be at 30% load to get a runtime load test.  I'm at 11% (of 
> 750va) with the BH and AP up there.
>
> If memory serves, back in 2015 I used a couple CRT monitors.  Those are long 
> gone.  The only idea I have is a space heater, but that's 850-900 watts and 
> will probably be too much.
>
> Short of carrying up 20 Ubiquiti AP/POE and some surge strips, anyone have 
> any clever ideas?  I have to carry this up 5 flights of stairs so please be 
> gentle :)
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations

[Chris Fabien]

We Just pulled a Maxxwave Vengence CHR from an edge router role. Had some
major major issues with iBGP route convergence with another x86 based
mikrotik router where each router had a full table from an upstream and
they needed to synchronize between them. Even when we moved the upstreams
to all be on the Vengence and pulled out the full routes downstream to
reduce that convergence, it still was running out of CPU at about 3.5 Gbps,
causing packet loss under heavier network load times. We went to Juniper. I
am far from a routing expert but once you get into multiple full table
upstreams or > 2Gbps I would strongly look at real routing hardware. Even a
small ISP could lease one and it should be affordable. It is probably the
single most critical piece of your infrastructure after all.
Chris


On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 9:19 AM Tushar Patel  wrote:

> Has anyone tried Maxwave from Baltic networks?
>
>
> https://www.balticnetworks.com/manufacturers/maxxwave/maxxwave-routermaxx-vengeance-8-port-gigabit-core-i7-i7-8700k-hexa-core-router
>
> They have bunch of cards options which can be added
>
>
> Tushar
>
>
> On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:28 PM, Steven Kenney  wrote:
>
> 
> Welp replacing it with a brand new 1072  with new transceivers etc lasted
> about a week before it rebooted itself.
>
> Mikrotik basically said RMA it or it may be faulty hardware.   Well I
> ruled that out with a unit that came from the factory with a pretty recent
> firmware.
>
> Mikrotik if you read this.  Get off your ass and lab this up.  If you are
> happy dealing with residential equipment for the rest of your lives keep
> doing what you are doing.  If you want to move up into the enterprise level
> you better get on top of this.
>
> [image: logo] 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * STEVEN KENNEY *
> DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL CONNECTIVITY & CONTINUITY A: 158 Erie St. N |
> Leamington ON
> E: st...@wavedirect.org | P: 519-737-9283
> W: www.wavedirect.net
>
> --
> *From: *"Josh Baird" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, December 22, 2020 10:20:36 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations
>
> Fair enough.  But, I have quad port x710's in many ESXi hosts (running CHR
> and otherwise) - and they are completely fine.
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 8:58 AM Steven Kenney 
> wrote:
>
>> I've been warned away from using the quad cards and speaking from
>> experience I myself have used quad ethernet cards with x86 mikrotiks in the
>> past with little success.   All sorts of funky issues.
>>
>> I understand clearly we can use vlans and such in ESXI but I'm talking
>> the pure amount of traffic I'll need will be beyond the demands the bus on
>> the motherboard will be able to handle.  I guess I really need to look at
>> the specs.  I know PCI Express V6 can do over 100Gbps.  But I'll prob use a
>> couple off lease Dells in its own routing cluster.
>>
>> [image: logo] 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> * STEVEN KENNEY *
>> DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL CONNECTIVITY & CONTINUITY A: 158 Erie St. N |
>> Leamington ON
>> E: st...@wavedirect.org | P: 519-737-9283
>> W: www.wavedirect.net
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"Josh Baird" 
>> *To: *"af" 
>> *Sent: *Monday, December 21, 2020 4:03:21 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations
>>
>> The x710 has 4 SFP+ ports.  You don't necessarily need dedicated physical
>> interfaces for each router either.  Our CHR boxes have a single x710 and
>> several instances of CHR "sharing" the physical interfaces.  We use ESXi
>> with a virtual switch trunking VLANs to the CHR instances.
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 3:43 PM Steven Kenney 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Right those are 2x though for a total of 4 ports.  I need more than
>>> that, especially if I want to run more than one router on these.
>>>
>>> Might even consider to see if there is any support for 40Gbps cards or
>>> whether a server's bus can handle those speeds with a card.  I can
>>> aggregate different devices on a switch instead.
>>>
>>> [image: logo] 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> * STEVEN KENNEY *
>>> DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL CONNECTIVITY & CONTINUITY A: 158 Erie St. N |
>>> Leamington ON
>>> E: st...@wavedirect.org | P: 519-737-9283
>>> W: www.wavedirect.net
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Josh Baird" 

Re: [AFMUG] OT glad I lived this long

[Chris Fabien]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
Getting pretty dang close on this one I think. Amazing stuff.

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 11:33 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> https://youtu.be/fn3KWM1kuAw
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT PPE

[Chris Fabien]

For vac ex crew you might look into some of the goggles that dirt bike
racers and the like use with plastic tear-offs to clear the mud. When I
have run the vac to be honest I found safety glasses too annoying to use
because they got dirty in about 10 seconds and once you're covered in mud
there's nothing to wipe them clean with.

On Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 3:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> We provide our employees an orange vest and hard hat.  We tell them they
> need steel toed boots.
> We don’t provide safety glasses.
>
> Had a new guy work 7 hours and quit a couple of weeks ago.  Today he calls
> and claims an eye injury from mud during potholing.  Threatening legal
> action, called my wife a F.. C...
>
> (He did not report the injury to anyone at the time.  We are starting
> workers compensation process just in case.  Not sure he even went to the
> doctor).
>
> I called him and we had an interesting conversation.  He was on speaker
> phone, Jenny was standing here, I recorded it.  Was an asshole but I
> convinced him to do the right thing. He apologized.
>
> Pretty sure he did not want what was going to come next if he did not
> apologize.
>
> Do y’all provide safety glasses?  I think we will start now.  Potholing
> does spray mud.  And they are cheap.
>
> I was fixin’ to go to jail a half hour ago.   Fun day...
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Re: [AFMUG] stabilizing an Unguyed tower

[Chris Fabien]

How many feet of space do you actually have on the closest side of the
tower. And what's the deal with that large base plate?

On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 10:49 PM Craig House  wrote:
>
> Its not about comfort on the tower as much as it is trying to keep the link 
> stable.  Plus it is a pain to align since turning a wrench moves the tower.  
> So AF24 and and MM wave gear is near impossible to align.  I'm always about 
> trying to figure out a way to resolve something like this.  I like the 
> engineering challenge but this one has me a bit baffled.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -
> From: "Chris Fabien" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 9:42:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stabilizing an Unguyed tower
>
> Just make him rent a lift when you need to service it. Not your fault
> he build a sketchy tower. I think your proposed guy wires would do
> little improve climber comfort and zero to improve actual safety.
>
> On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 10:20 PM Craig House  wrote:
> >
> > The attached drawing is rough but I hope you get the idea.  It is not the 
> > tower in questions but is a photo I had I could mark up
> >
> > I have a customer that has a tower in the very corner of their yard  90 
> > degree angle corner.  Best I can get in the yard is one guy wire and the 
> > neighbor is not an option to put guy wires in.  25g 50' tall.  I'd like to 
> > make it more stable but how?   The base is in concrete and has been there 
> > for some time.  Heavy winds have not caused damage to the tower so it is 
> > not about how solid it is as much as how much it moves  Would a guy wire 
> > design where all three legs were guyed back to the base of the tower using 
> > some kind of stand off in the middle do anything?  I think it might make 
> > the tower more rigid but would it keep it from swaying?  Since some of the 
> > unstableness of the tower comes from the joints it seems like it might help 
> > but is it worth the effort?  I maybe could move out 3' from the base but 
> > that angle just doesn't do much more than attaching to the base just above 
> > the concrete.  Thoughts?--
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] stabilizing an Unguyed tower

[Chris Fabien]

Just make him rent a lift when you need to service it. Not your fault
he build a sketchy tower. I think your proposed guy wires would do
little improve climber comfort and zero to improve actual safety.

On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 10:20 PM Craig House  wrote:
>
> The attached drawing is rough but I hope you get the idea.  It is not the 
> tower in questions but is a photo I had I could mark up
>
> I have a customer that has a tower in the very corner of their yard  90 
> degree angle corner.  Best I can get in the yard is one guy wire and the 
> neighbor is not an option to put guy wires in.  25g 50' tall.  I'd like to 
> make it more stable but how?   The base is in concrete and has been there for 
> some time.  Heavy winds have not caused damage to the tower so it is not 
> about how solid it is as much as how much it moves  Would a guy wire design 
> where all three legs were guyed back to the base of the tower using some kind 
> of stand off in the middle do anything?  I think it might make the tower more 
> rigid but would it keep it from swaying?  Since some of the unstableness of 
> the tower comes from the joints it seems like it might help but is it worth 
> the effort?  I maybe could move out 3' from the base but that angle just 
> doesn't do much more than attaching to the base just above the concrete.  
> Thoughts?--
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] OT vac ex in freezing temps

[Chris Fabien]

I would add a diesel powered water heater like hot water pressure
washers use into the pressure circuit. This would help keep the vacuum
hose from freezing while excavating, and then set up a recirculate
system where they disconnect the wand and plug the end of the hose
into a fitting that returns it to the tank. Then leave the heater and
pump running on low and this will keep your water tank nice and warm.
Might take some thermostats to make it be stable. I'm not sure if
keeping the spoils warm in the tank would even matter that much, other
than making it a pain to get empty.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 3:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> I bought a 12 volt dc air compressor with tank.  Going to have them blow out 
> the spray hose when done spraying in the afternoon.  So that when they get 
> back to the shop at least it will not be frozen stiff when they go to 
> winterize everything.
>
> From: Colin Stanners
> Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 1:10 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT vac ex in freezing temps
>
> Some excavator manufacturers have "arctic" upgrade packages. My understanding 
> is that as long as the vacuum truck is stored inside a warm shop when not in 
> use, the clean water tank will have enough thermal mass to not freeze during 
> most workdays. The vac design may be passing the engine exhaust underneath 
> the tank to warm it too. A heater on the outgoing water helps protect the 
> rest of the circulation system. Employees being careful of freezing risk is 
> important too, not letting things "sit".
>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:19 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>>
>> Trying to figure out how to keep my vacuum excavators working in low temps.  
>> Thinking of perhaps a heat exchanger dumping engine heat via the water 
>> jacket or exhaust into the water tank.  Thinking of an air purge that would 
>> blow out the hose every time they are done using it.  Perhaps some kind of 
>> propane heater to warm up the water tank.
>>
>> Looked at heated hoses but most of those are for the spray foam industry.  
>> Might work.
>>
>> Any other ideas?  How do they do it in your part of the world Colin?
>> --
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>
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Time on Analog Phones

[Chris Fabien]

Time comes in the Caller ID data. Your ATA or ONT needs to know the correct
time.


On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 9:55 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> That's kinda where I'm at too.  I'm sure our ATA's were giving time to
> people's handsets too because this came up a lot after they changed the
> daylight savings dates.  ATA's that didn't have that fixed would give
> people wrong times for a few weeks near the DST changes.
>
>
> Exactly how they do it is where I'm fuzzy.  I think you're right that they
> can bury some modulated data in the ringing.
>
>
>
> On 11/6/2020 9:46 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
>
> With my Non-phone background, I think that it sends the time as part of
> the CID string.  So a customer may manually set the time on a phone, and
> then when the first call comes in, it resets the time.  I usually track
> time issues down to an incorrect time setting in the ATA.
>
> On 11/6/2020 8:44 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> I think they do send the time on POTS lines.  ADSI maybe?
>
> Are the time and timezone both correct on the ONT?
>
>
>
> On 11/6/2020 8:32 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> I thought we had talked about this recently (and I thought it was Nate),
> but I can't find the conversation to figure out what's going on.
>
> We recently have moved a couple customers off of Frontier to dialtone
> derived from our ONTs that are having problems. The only problem is that
> the time displayed on their phone is now no longer correct. They set the
> time and it stays for a bit, but then resets to something not correct. I
> guess when they were on Frontier, it worked correctly all of the time.
>
> Would Frontier have had some kind of service setup on their POTS lines
> that provided time? I've never heard of such a thing.
>
> I would think it was just a failing phone system, but to have multiple
> customers converted in a month all have the same problem? Seems fishy.
>
>
> I'm assuming it's some kind of key system, but I don't know what as I
> haven't seen it.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation

[Chris Fabien]

Chuck, I like your idea but I think the pay for each category is too low
for some of them. A competent drill operator or splicer should be worth
much more than $16/hr. Likewise a guy that can literally do any job in the
company is probably a $30/hr guy not $20/hr.


On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 7:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I am considering telling all new interviewees that we start at $15/hour
> but they can make more quickly according to this schedule.  And we also do
> COLA and Merit increases every 6 months.
>
> Love to have feedback on this idea.
>
> Please note my new email address: ch...@go-mtc.com
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Re: [AFMUG] GPON - alternate wavelengths

[Chris Fabien]

 Jared - " What you can do is transport multiple PONs over a single fiber
using CWDM wavelengths. However, you need to do an OEO conversion at the
remote side back to standard wavelengths and have separate PON trees for
each wavelength."
Can you elaborate on what it takes to make this happen? Is that powered
equipment at the OEO conversion or passive? Interesting...

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 3:56 PM  wrote:

> > Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020
> > From: "Adam Moffett" 
> > Subject: [AFMUG] GPON - alternate wavelengths
> >
> > Do any vendors sell PON optics on non-standard wavelengths?
>   Not as far as I know. I recall an old press release [1], but I don't
> recall anything coming of it.
>   The reason standard wavelengths are used is because, well, they are
> standard and any other wavelengths would not have scale benefits.
>
>
> [1]
> https://www.lightwaveonline.com/optical-tech/article/16671134/source-photonics-unveils-cwdm-gpon-olt-and-ont
>
>
> > I could just overlay a second XGPON network on a different wavelength?
>   If you did you'd have problems on the client side. The ONU would either
> have to be custom made to be wavelength selective or you'd have to install
> the correct wavelength filters at each drop.
>   Doable in theory, but expensive.
>
>   What you can do is transport multiple PONs over a single fiber using
> CWDM wavelengths. However, you need to do an OEO conversion at the remote
> side back to standard wavelengths and have separate PON trees for each
> wavelength.
>
> Jared
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT metal detectors

[Chris Fabien]

Our water guys use something like this:
https://www.schonstedt.com/products/ga-52cx/
But I have only ever seen them use it to find valve lids or risers that
have been covered by a little bit of dirt or paved over.
Tell the drill guys next time they break off priority #1 is mark where the
head is!

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 5:51 PM  wrote:

> Had a drill rod break today.  The guys did not know where the end was
> because the sonde went to sleep on them.  Had the local water guy go over
> with his metal detector and help them find it.
>
> I am going to ask him what kind he has.  Anyone here use them?  Any
> opinions?
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Re: [AFMUG] GPON over radio

[Chris Fabien]

Chuck, yes most platforms can go further, our ZTE OLT supports out to 80km.
I guess what I meant was if the microwave equipment adds any processing
delay it would need to be within that range which I calculate as 66
microseconds. It would be especially troublesome if the added delay varied
at all.


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 2:30 PM  wrote:

> With Calix you can go way beyond 20 km if you split less.  So the timing
> for them is not as tight as the GPON spec.
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 20, 2020 8:08 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] GPON over radio
>
> I've talked to someone who made a GPON extender out of back to back SFPs
> so its probably not entirely nuts. The timing range is pretty narrow so
> you'll have to consider any delay in the radio link will be significant.
> Many platforms the nearest to furthest ONU must be within 20km even if they
> are all much further out they can't differ by >20km.
>
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 12:12 PM  wrote:
>
>> I am wondering if I took a media converter with a bidi with the gpon up
>> and down frequency and did another one at the other end, if the signal
>> would come out unmolsted.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 9:49 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] GPON over radio
>>
>> Yikes. Sounds like the old attempts to do DOCSIS over RF.
>>
>> On Sep 19, 2020, at 11:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Anyone ever figured out how to take a gpon on fiber and run it over
>> microwave radios/ethernet and back to gpon?
>> --
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>>
>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] GPON over radio

[Chris Fabien]

I've talked to someone who made a GPON extender out of back to back SFPs so
its probably not entirely nuts. The timing range is pretty narrow so you'll
have to consider any delay in the radio link will be significant. Many
platforms the nearest to furthest ONU must be within 20km even if they are
all much further out they can't differ by >20km.

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 12:12 PM  wrote:

> I am wondering if I took a media converter with a bidi with the gpon up
> and down frequency and did another one at the other end, if the signal
> would come out unmolsted.
>
>
>
> *From:* Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2020 9:49 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] GPON over radio
>
> Yikes. Sounds like the old attempts to do DOCSIS over RF.
>
> On Sep 19, 2020, at 11:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> 
> Anyone ever figured out how to take a gpon on fiber and run it over
> microwave radios/ethernet and back to gpon?
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Re: [AFMUG] My solution

[Chris Fabien]

Sorry I meant slack of the outside flat drop intact, takes about a 12"
square box to be able to make it coil in there.

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 9:17 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> This has slack storage and a splice holder.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 9, 2020, at 6:36 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:
>
> 
> We had way more field failures with AFL Fastconnects than after we
> switched to spliced pigtails. We use a little larger NID that allows for
> some slack storage and has a splice holder. Tii 506F.
> Chris
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 8:13 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> I think I will switch to a mechanical.  Too cumbersome to haul out an
>> expensive fusion splicer.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone--
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] My solution

[Chris Fabien]

We had way more field failures with AFL Fastconnects than after we switched
to spliced pigtails. We use a little larger NID that allows for some slack
storage and has a splice holder. Tii 506F.
Chris


On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 8:13 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I think I will switch to a mechanical.  Too cumbersome to haul out an
> expensive fusion splicer.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone--
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Re: [AFMUG] Possible Fiber project for school

[Chris Fabien]

Mark,
I am NOT at all an e-rate expert, we have only ever bid on one project.
But, I believe there is a requirement that the school can only get funding
for special construction (your option 1) if they were unable to purchase
the services they need on a monthly service basis.

I think you may want to present an option 4. Build 4 new miles of your
fiber that you own, and sell them the services they need, whether that is a
dark fiber lease, or a lit transport circuit or a Metro WAN or whatever
they want.

You may want to find an expert to assist. If you have a good relationship
with the school they can shape the RFP to help you in the bidding. For
example the scoring criteria can be set up various ways. Price has to be
the most heavily weighted item but you can for example set up: Lowest Price
30%, Has an office in Myakka City 25%, Local tech can respond within 30
minutes 25%, Owners Name is Mark, 20%.  Exaggerating but you get the idea.

Chris


On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 5:51 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Chris,
>
> #2 maybe the only way we bid.  I know they want #1, but I think we can
> come in with a low enough bid that #2 would be the best option.  Still do
> some research on the usac site to see the best way to do this.  I have had
> quotes of $50 - $80 per strand per mile per month for some of the dark
> fiber we have looked at in the past.  Currently we only sell dark fiber to
> one customer and we are charging them 37.50/mile/month
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Wednesday, September 9, 2020, 5:02:11 PM, you wrote:
>
>
> If you have the strands available #2 is the money maker.
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 3:50 PM  wrote:
>
> There is also fabric innerduct which you can use to sub-duct an occupied
> duct. However, in a 1.25" duct it will be a *really* tight squeeze.
>
>
> Jared
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 09
> > From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Possible Fiber project for school
> >
> > You can put micro duct in regular duct, but not if it is occupied.
> Perhaps
> > someone can do it.  I can't.
> > I hate any form of overblowing/double stuffing.
> >
> > I would not do it unless I got a piece of the recurring action.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 9
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> > Subject: [AFMUG] Possible Fiber project for school
> >
> > We  may  have  an  opportunity  to  bid  on a fiber project to a rural
> > elementary  school  in our footprint.  RFP has not been published yet,
> > so we have had only high level talks about this.
> >
> > We can do this 3 ways.
> >
> > 1.  A  completely new build out for the school.  Their own fiber, ducts,
> > handholes,  etc.   About  16  miles  of  state  road  so  DOT  will be
> > involved.
> >
> > 2.  About 4 miles new build on a state road which will get them to our
> > footprint.  We then lease them the other 12 miles on our fiber.
> >
> > 3.  About  4 miles new build on a state road to our footprint, then we
> > attempt  to  pull  their  fiber  through our duct for the remaining 12
> > miles.
> >
> >
> > Option  #1  is going to be the most time consuming and most expensive.
> > But  they  are  only out of pocket 20%.  E-Rate will pick up the other
> > 80%.   Advantages  to  them,  they own everything.  Disadvantage, they
> > have  to maintain everything.  No real advantage to us,  Just takes us
> > away  from  doing what we do.  Maybe we can get a maintenance contract
> > from them for fiber cuts, etc.  But I doubt it.
> >
> > Option  #2  quickest cleanest way to go.  Bang out a 4 mile run and be
> > done  with  it.  Disadvantages to them, reoccurring charges.  Not sure
> > if dark fiber is covered under e-rate.
> >
> > Option   #3  try to squeeze their fiber into our current duct.  We use
> > 1.25" duct and I think our current fiber is .75", so it would be tight
> > depending on count.  Is there a way to sub-duct existing duct?  I know
> > I  saw  some  high  count low diameter dense fiber at one of the WISPA
> > shows.
> >
> > Opinions?
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> >
> > Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> > www.Myakka.com
> >
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> > --
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> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Circle parental control device

[Chris Fabien]

They use ARP spoofing and can definitely cause problems. We tested one and
they were not compatible with the SmartRG SR400 routers we use. Their
support was no help whatsoever either.

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 4:59 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> H, does that work seamlessly, or could it cause problems people blame
> on their Internet?  And would it play nice with a range extender or mesh
> system?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Darin Steffl
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 9, 2020 1:07 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Circle parental control device
>
>
>
> ARP spoofing. It's not inline at all. If possible, it should be hardwired
> to the router instead of wifi for best performance.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2020, 12:51 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> routerlimits had something similar, never got to investigate much before
> bark bought them
>
> i figured it either did dns or spoofing of something
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 12:43 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Customer has a Circle device on their WiFi network which apparently is a
> parental control device.
>
>
>
> How does this work if it’s just another device on the WiFi?  It seems like
> it would have to either be inline with the path to the Internet, or somehow
> take over DNS.  Or is it doing something intrusive on the WiFi?
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Possible Fiber project for school

[Chris Fabien]

If you have the strands available #2 is the money maker.

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 3:50 PM  wrote:

> There is also fabric innerduct which you can use to sub-duct an occupied
> duct. However, in a 1.25" duct it will be a *really* tight squeeze.
>
>
> Jared
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 09
> > From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Possible Fiber project for school
> >
> > You can put micro duct in regular duct, but not if it is occupied.
> Perhaps
> > someone can do it.  I can't.
> > I hate any form of overblowing/double stuffing.
> >
> > I would not do it unless I got a piece of the recurring action.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 9
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> > Subject: [AFMUG] Possible Fiber project for school
> >
> > We  may  have  an  opportunity  to  bid  on a fiber project to a rural
> > elementary  school  in our footprint.  RFP has not been published yet,
> > so we have had only high level talks about this.
> >
> > We can do this 3 ways.
> >
> > 1.  A  completely new build out for the school.  Their own fiber, ducts,
> > handholes,  etc.   About  16  miles  of  state  road  so  DOT  will be
> > involved.
> >
> > 2.  About 4 miles new build on a state road which will get them to our
> > footprint.  We then lease them the other 12 miles on our fiber.
> >
> > 3.  About  4 miles new build on a state road to our footprint, then we
> > attempt  to  pull  their  fiber  through our duct for the remaining 12
> > miles.
> >
> >
> > Option  #1  is going to be the most time consuming and most expensive.
> > But  they  are  only out of pocket 20%.  E-Rate will pick up the other
> > 80%.   Advantages  to  them,  they own everything.  Disadvantage, they
> > have  to maintain everything.  No real advantage to us,  Just takes us
> > away  from  doing what we do.  Maybe we can get a maintenance contract
> > from them for fiber cuts, etc.  But I doubt it.
> >
> > Option  #2  quickest cleanest way to go.  Bang out a 4 mile run and be
> > done  with  it.  Disadvantages to them, reoccurring charges.  Not sure
> > if dark fiber is covered under e-rate.
> >
> > Option   #3  try to squeeze their fiber into our current duct.  We use
> > 1.25" duct and I think our current fiber is .75", so it would be tight
> > depending on count.  Is there a way to sub-duct existing duct?  I know
> > I  saw  some  high  count low diameter dense fiber at one of the WISPA
> > shows.
> >
> > Opinions?
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> >
> > Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> > www.Myakka.com
> >
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> > --
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> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Upstream Bandwidth Question

[Chris Fabien]

Mark, I would go for option B as well, as long as you can thoroughly verify
that you're achieving a completely diverse path. That way as you grow,
assuming you keep the links the same size over the years you're at 2/3
capacity in an outage not 1/2 capacity.  The verify it's actually redundant
can be tricky as providers will try to hide situations when they are in a
common path or common cable sheath with other carriers. Around us, almost
all of the carriers that are not ILEC and not MSO end up mostly using the
same 1990s CLEC fiber network.

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 2:33 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> We  are  starting  to  get close enough on upstream bandwidth, where I
> need to start thinking about getting some more.
>
> Currently  we have two 10G ports going to  two different data centers.
> With  the  internet  connections, IX links and current hardware, I can
> pull  about 8GB max from each port.  Currently in peak times we pull a
> total  of  about  4-5 gbps on one line and about 3-4 gbps on the other.
>  It  is manageable now, until an upstream goes down during peak times.
>  That has only happened once and it was a bit dicey.
>
>  The question is which would be "better"?
>
>  A.  Upgrade the two pipes to 20/40/100G whatever is the standard now.
>  Buy new hardware to handle the new speeds needed.
>
>  B.   Build   out   a  9  mile fiber run to a possible POP where I can
>  possibly grab some dark fiber or at least another 10G and run to a
> possible 3rd data center.
>
>  I  personally  like B, being I can push upgrading the other two links
>  down  the road.  This is a rural area, but a state road, so the fiber
>  install  won't  be  cheap.   However,  I  can  possibly pick up 10-15
>  customers along the way with the possibility of getting more as things
>  build out.
>
>  Currently  the  two upstreams  balance themselves out.  I don't
>  have  any  fancy  code doing load balancing.  If I add a third to the
>  mix, I'm not sure how well they will balance out.
>
>  Just trying to figure out pros and cons of each.
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Installer tool list

[Chris Fabien]

Takes a 1/2" bit to pass a pre-terminated SC connector, unless you are
using the type where you put on the connector shell later.

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 3:14 PM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> Where do you buy those booger picks?
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 2:05 PM  wrote:
>
>> 5’ step ladder
>>
>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 25, 2020 12:49 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Installer tool list
>>
>> This is how it currently looks now:
>>
>>
>> *Installer’s Tool Bag/Belt*
>>
>> Electric drill
>>
>> Phillips bit for drill
>>
>> Bell hangers bit.  .250”
>>
>> Arrow T-18 stapler and staples
>>
>> Markers
>> Zip tie labels
>> Zip ties
>> Screw-in anchors
>>
>> *Installer’s Truck  - MEL*
>>
>> 2 Batteries
>>
>> Charger that can plug into 12V
>>
>> Arrow T-18 Staples
>>
>> Glow rods
>>
>> Long flex bit
>>
>> Alcohol
>> One click cleaners for SC/APC
>> #6, 8 & 10 Philips pan head sheet metal screws
>>
>> Duct Cutter
>>
>> VFL
>>
>> *Optional but recommended*
>>
>> Fish tape
>>
>> Caulk
>> Electrical tape (at least black and white, red and green)
>> Micro screwdrivers
>> Standard screwdrivers
>> Mini socket set with common sizes
>> open end wrenches in common sizes (maybe 5 metric, 5 ANSI with a
>> different size on each end of the wrench)
>> Several types of pliers (linesman, needle nose, common)
>> Diagonal cutters (big ones, and tiny nippers)
>> Hammer
>> Crescent wrench
>> Vise Grips
>> Pipe wrench
>> Micro screwdrivers
>> Spudger/booger pick
>> Wire brush
>> Utility knife with blades
>> Electrician scissors
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
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> 325-439-0533 Cell
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Geothermal Power Quality

[Chris Fabien]

It's probably a precautionary statement rather than a "this will not work".
Depending on the quality and size of the generator you could have issues
starting the compressor for example and end up feeding high current into a
stalled motor until a breaker trips. I would expect a modern geothermal
system to have adequate controls and protection to avoid system damage but
you never know. Maybe it's to avoid nuisance trouble calls for systems that
aren't acting right on a crappy generator.

On Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 10:05 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> My brother has a geothermal heating\cooling system. The primary reason he
> got a generator was to run the geothermal system.
>
> The people that sold the geothermal system to him told him that he
> shouldn't run the geothermal system on the generator.
>
> Why would this be?
>
> Could he purchase a line conditioner of some sort to clean the power
> before it gets to the geothermal system?
>
>
>
> I'm not sure of the size, but it's one of those Bobcat portable
> welder\generators and he hooks it up to a transfer switch at the meter for
> his farm.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] CPE Install Costs.xlsx

[Chris Fabien]

I would say no on both of those.
If you want to push through microduct you need a real stiff cable. That
makes it not so nice for the rest of the install.

If you want a premade assembly that you can staple around a house or to
joists in a basement, look at the Corning rugged drop cables. They have a
5mm jacket with a tight buffer BIF and are rated for a 5mm bend radius. You
can tie it in a knot, bend it back completely on itself, staple the heck
out of it, no problem.

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 11:22 AM  wrote:

> Will this FS stuff take a staple and can you push it through microduct?
>
> *From:* Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2020 7:23 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CPE Install Costs.xlsx
>
> I fhink you preterminated indoor jumper cost is too high.   These
> https://www.fs.com/c/armored-patch-cables-220 work fine for the inside
> wiring from the outdoor box to the wall plate or direct to CPE if you are
> not doing a inside jack.  They are not UV rated so you have to make sure
> you don’t leave them exposed outdoor.   You can pop the outer SC portion
> off the jumper if you want to pass through a smaller hole.
>
> Mark
>
> On Aug 12, 2020, at 7:00 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> 
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] CPE Install Costs.xlsx

[Chris Fabien]

Chuck, we are close to your proposed design. We use a Tii 506f NID, fusion
splice pigtail, pre-terminated cable assembly from NID to biscuit style
wall jack. Either a corning RuggedDrop for ~$25-35 or one of the blue
fiberstore cables Mark linked, which are our default unless we need to
house wrap or leave some exposed outside.  From the Biscuit jack to modem
is also one of the blue armored FS patch cables. I think this approach is
the best balance of cheap and easy to install. You do need to have a tech
that can do a single fusion splice but otherwise it's an easy job.

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 9:23 PM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

> I fhink you preterminated indoor jumper cost is too high.   These
> https://www.fs.com/c/armored-patch-cables-220 work fine for the inside
> wiring from the outdoor box to the wall plate or direct to CPE if you are
> not doing a inside jack.  They are not UV rated so you have to make sure
> you don’t leave them exposed outdoor.   You can pop the outer SC portion
> off the jumper if you want to pass through a smaller hole.
>
> Mark
>
> On Aug 12, 2020, at 7:00 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> 
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] SC-APC patch Cables

[Chris Fabien]

Graybar stocks a corning rugged drop assembly which is a 5mm indoor outdoor
cable with single tight buffer BIF with SC APC on either end. 100ft is
about $40 I think.



On Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 2:50 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Anyone have a good US Source for SC-APC Patch cables, 30M indoor. Most
> of what I'm finding is shipped from china with a 20-30 day lead time.  I
> could pull a drop cable, and splice the ends on, but for this short
> distance on an easy pull, preterminated would be simpler.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer

[Chris Fabien]

It will probably look like a clean sine wave but there is a control loop in
the voltage regulator that adjusts the field voltage to generate the
correct output voltage. That loop has some instability under zero load,
that's what it sounds like to me anyway.

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 3:57 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> We just said screw it and did 12vdc (12v LED, battery) charge the battery
> via trailer cable.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 1:26 PM  wrote:
>
>> Brand new splicing trailer.  Just finishing it up.
>> Put in florescent looking fixtures that are actually LED.
>> They flicker with the generator power.
>>
>> I am going to try to put caps on the output of the LED ballasts...
>> But what is the best way to stabilize the output of the generator?
>>
>> I am going to put a scope on the output and see what it looks like.
>> I turned on the air conditioner and the flickering reduced, so it is low
>> load causing it.
>>
>> But this is after an electronic LED driver which should regulate out the
>> AC line issues I would thing.
>>
>> Odd...
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Re: [AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer

[Chris Fabien]

What kind of generator? Cheap one?
That seems like probably voltage fluctuation causing that.
If I were going to use a small generator I'd go for a honda 2000 or 3000
inverter generator, or one of the competing models. Very quiet, last
forever.
Chris


On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 1:36 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> That sounds like the generator must have particularly ratty output? The
> constant current regulators on the input to the LEDs are supposed to filter
> that out. Maybe put an AC filter on the input to the light fixtures?
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/22/2020 10:25 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Brand new splicing trailer.  Just finishing it up.
> Put in florescent looking fixtures that are actually LED.
> They flicker with the generator power.
>
> I am going to try to put caps on the output of the LED ballasts...
> But what is the best way to stabilize the output of the generator?
>
> I am going to put a scope on the output and see what it looks like.
> I turned on the air conditioner and the flickering reduced, so it is low
> load causing it.
>
> But this is after an electronic LED driver which should regulate out the
> AC line issues I would thing.
>
> Odd...
>
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Chris Fabien]

We did a fiber fed unifi system in a 150 site RV campground and it has
worked out quite well. Active Ethernet with BiDi optics to a Ubnt Fiber POE
and Unifi AP mounted on a 4x4 post between sites or on a building. Hid a
24V 1A POE inside the nearest power pedestal and a short buried cat5 to
feed fiber to each post. Two loops of 12F flat drop cable buried along the
road, homerun back to a small network cabinet in the office. I caution
anyone looking at a campground network to carefully set expectations with
management, if you want guaranteed wifi inside all campers, you're probably
going to need one AP per two sites. With our deployment you can use wifi
outside in most areas and inside some campers and not inside others. And
coverage varies considerably with RVs moving in and out and all kinds of
interfering wifi networks, repeaters, hotspots etc. We basically handle any
complaints as, we'd be happy to come install another AP to improve signal
in that location, here's the cost. They haven't had us back out yet.

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 4:31 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
>
> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next
> to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to
> plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And
> if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV.
>
> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together,
> but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already.
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Internal fiber

[Chris Fabien]

01UR43F050F
Graybar normally has these and then 100F version in stock.

On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 1:35 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Do you have a part number for the Corning assembly?  I can't seem to
> locate it.
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 11:23 AM Chris Fabien  wrote:
>
>> We use one of two options
>>
>> Corning RuggedDrop assembly, is a 5mm 1F tight buffered cable with SC/APC
>> on either end, outside rated in case you need to house wrap, we use this
>> from the NID to a baseboard jack. These are $25-35 range for 50-100ft
>> length.
>>
>> Fiberstore armored patch cables - 3mm with a blue PVC jacket, we use
>> these from the baseboard jack to the modem/ONU. Depending on the ONU you
>> may need a UPC to APC which is a custom item about a 1 month lead time.
>> We've also bought a similar cable from total cable solutions. About $5 for
>> the FS and only about $8.50 for the TCS.  We have also bought longer ones
>> of these to use from NID to the baseboard jack, in cases when it will not
>> be exposed to UV, like right into the crawl space and then up into the
>> living area.
>>
>> This is the baseboard jack we use:
>> http://www.ecablemart.com/terminal_box/2-fiber-86-type-ftth-terminal-box-p-119819.html
>>
>> Hope the helps
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 11:25 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> I am planning to run the fiber clear into the 844G router at each home.
>>> But in the past when we have done this, we have had issues with people
>>> not understanding that the fiber is a bit more delicate than cat5.  Then
>>> there is the issue with the termination.  You can get long jumpers and
>>> splice outside in a small enclosure.  But replacing the end on the router
>>> is a bit more difficult.  I have used unicams in the past, but with my new
>>> system I am looking for something better.
>>>
>>> I really need something a bit tougher than jumpers to route through the
>>> house.  Anything like that exist?
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Internal fiber

[Chris Fabien]

Mike, we splice a pigtail onto the flat drop, then a premade cable to a
baseboard jack inside.

On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 9:33 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> For those that are using connectors in the NID, are you using a
> pre-terminated drop cable or are you splicing on a pigtail?
>
> Do you then just use cables that are pre-terminated the rest of the way to
> the ONT?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, June 4, 2020 10:24:28 AM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Internal fiber
>
> I am planning to run the fiber clear into the 844G router at each home.
> But in the past when we have done this, we have had issues with people not
> understanding that the fiber is a bit more delicate than cat5.  Then there
> is the issue with the termination.  You can get long jumpers and splice
> outside in a small enclosure.  But replacing the end on the router is a bit
> more difficult.  I have used unicams in the past, but with my new system I
> am looking for something better.
>
> I really need something a bit tougher than jumpers to route through the
> house.  Anything like that exist?
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Internal fiber

[Chris Fabien]

We would typically replace the cable run although there is room in the NID
and in that baseboard jack to fusion splice a pigtail in a pinch.


On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 12:48 PM  wrote:

> This does help, thanks.  What do you do when you have to re terminate the
> Corning drop?
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 4, 2020 10:22 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Internal fiber
>
> We use one of two options
>
> Corning RuggedDrop assembly, is a 5mm 1F tight buffered cable with SC/APC
> on either end, outside rated in case you need to house wrap, we use this
> from the NID to a baseboard jack. These are $25-35 range for 50-100ft
> length.
>
> Fiberstore armored patch cables - 3mm with a blue PVC jacket, we use these
> from the baseboard jack to the modem/ONU. Depending on the ONU you may need
> a UPC to APC which is a custom item about a 1 month lead time. We've also
> bought a similar cable from total cable solutions. About $5 for the FS and
> only about $8.50 for the TCS.  We have also bought longer ones of these to
> use from NID to the baseboard jack, in cases when it will not be exposed to
> UV, like right into the crawl space and then up into the living area.
>
> This is the baseboard jack we use:
> http://www.ecablemart.com/terminal_box/2-fiber-86-type-ftth-terminal-box-p-119819.html
>
> Hope the helps
> Chris
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 11:25 AM  wrote:
>
>> I am planning to run the fiber clear into the 844G router at each home.
>> But in the past when we have done this, we have had issues with people
>> not understanding that the fiber is a bit more delicate than cat5.  Then
>> there is the issue with the termination.  You can get long jumpers and
>> splice outside in a small enclosure.  But replacing the end on the router
>> is a bit more difficult.  I have used unicams in the past, but with my new
>> system I am looking for something better.
>>
>> I really need something a bit tougher than jumpers to route through the
>> house.  Anything like that exist?
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Internal fiber

[Chris Fabien]

We use one of two options

Corning RuggedDrop assembly, is a 5mm 1F tight buffered cable with SC/APC
on either end, outside rated in case you need to house wrap, we use this
from the NID to a baseboard jack. These are $25-35 range for 50-100ft
length.

Fiberstore armored patch cables - 3mm with a blue PVC jacket, we use these
from the baseboard jack to the modem/ONU. Depending on the ONU you may need
a UPC to APC which is a custom item about a 1 month lead time. We've also
bought a similar cable from total cable solutions. About $5 for the FS and
only about $8.50 for the TCS.  We have also bought longer ones of these to
use from NID to the baseboard jack, in cases when it will not be exposed to
UV, like right into the crawl space and then up into the living area.

This is the baseboard jack we use:
http://www.ecablemart.com/terminal_box/2-fiber-86-type-ftth-terminal-box-p-119819.html

Hope the helps
Chris



On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 11:25 AM  wrote:

> I am planning to run the fiber clear into the 844G router at each home.
> But in the past when we have done this, we have had issues with people not
> understanding that the fiber is a bit more delicate than cat5.  Then there
> is the issue with the termination.  You can get long jumpers and splice
> outside in a small enclosure.  But replacing the end on the router is a bit
> more difficult.  I have used unicams in the past, but with my new system I
> am looking for something better.
>
> I really need something a bit tougher than jumpers to route through the
> house.  Anything like that exist?
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Dark Fiber Pricing

[Chris Fabien]

I think a yearly maintenance fee is the typical arrangement but have also
heard of a strand leesee or maybe IRU owner needing to share a portion of
the costs for, say, a cable relocation due to road widening. All depends on
the agreement in place.

You can also expect to pay their splicer each time you need to access a
strand. Sometimes those costs can be reasonable and sometimes they can be
ridiculous.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 3:21 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I'm not in the dark fiber game, but what do you mean by 'per-event'
> billing?  Like if there's a fiber cut, you're responsible for part of the
> repair cost?  Or is that for like accessing the electronics on the ends of
> the fiber.
>
> On 4/20/2020 2:10 PM, Chris Fabien wrote:
>
> Those seem like fair rates, is that all inclusive or will you also get
> billed for maintenance annually or per-event?
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 2:44 PM Jeremy Grip  wrote:
>
>> Can anybody give me an idea of reasonable dark fiber pricing per strand
>> mile? I’m trying to figure out if the rates Vermont asks for state-owned
>> fiber are reasonable, see the attached.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeremy Grip, LTLOP (long time lurker, occasional poster)
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Dark Fiber Pricing

[Chris Fabien]

Those seem like fair rates, is that all inclusive or will you also get
billed for maintenance annually or per-event?

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 2:44 PM Jeremy Grip  wrote:

> Can anybody give me an idea of reasonable dark fiber pricing per strand
> mile? I’m trying to figure out if the rates Vermont asks for state-owned
> fiber are reasonable, see the attached.
>
>
>
> Jeremy Grip, LTLOP (long time lurker, occasional poster)
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Market saturation

[Chris Fabien]

In our rural areas, with FTTH on a road for several years, we usually get
no higher than 75%.

On Wed, Apr 15, 2020, 12:30 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> What percentage of rural customers would you all consider saturated?
>
> I have access to some new datasets and it disturbing. It's good
> disturbing, but unanticipated.
>
> May be bad.
>
> Is there a rural percentage of capture that is considered saturated as a
> standard? 100 percent is what we all want. But there are customers who dont
> want, or simply cannot afford internet access. There has to be some numbers
> out there.
>
> I doubt government numbers count, since government is dumb. Where does a
> simpleton such as myself go to find out what is considered saturated?
>
> Say I touch 1000 households. What is the percentage of capture that
> marketing is no longer recommended? If I have 500 of them, I'd think that's
> pretty good, maybe even saturated between lack of need, want, or ability
> and offset by whatever percentage per terrain would be co sided
> unservicable. I'd assume my midwest flatlands unservicable would be
> different than Johnny paychecks Arkansas hills unservicable.
>
> These numbers have to be somewhere
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid measures at work

[Chris Fabien]

Chuck, we came up with a very similar approach. No shared trucks, no shared
spaces like lunchrooms, our office building only has 3-4 employees in a
3200 sqft building with 4 restrooms so we are assigning a restroom to each
person and literally zero contact, call them on the phone if you need
something. OSP guys working solo as much as possible. We are providing
masks, gloves, sanitizer for the techs with customer contact and avoiding
in-home work as much as possible although some amount is unavoidable. I set
up SMS on our office number so we can ask customers text us a photo of your
router, cords, cable you just cut in the yard etc.

On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 11:52 AM  wrote:

> I have stepped up our response to this at work.
> Comments and suggestions are very much welcome.
>
> 1)Mechanic will work swing shift.  No overlap with day shift employees.
> 2)PCB production stays in their part of the building.
> 3)Fabrication stay in their part of the building.
> 4)Avoid the lunchroom.
> 5)OSP construction one person per truck.
> 6)Bring lunch from home and eat it alone in the truck.
> 7)Vac excavators will have to do it with one person.  Much slower but
> safer.
> 8)More 2 way radio use to try to enforce the 10 foot rule.
>
> Anything I can add?
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Hiring

[Chris Fabien]

We've had this same problem in the past. This year we advertised two days
for walk-in interviews. Have had about 16 people walk in so far and several
very good candidates. Might be worth a shot. At least you get people that
are motivated enough to show up.
Chris


On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 1:04 PM  wrote:

> Outside Salt Lake City.
>
> *From:* Steven Kenney
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2020 11:00 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Hiring
>
> Remind me where you are from Chuck?   We had all sorts of difficulties
> finding good people down in the USA.  Pay was better in all the other
> industries, especially oil.  So nobody would go to a job that paid so much
> less.  You looking for installers, techs?
>
> I find this is a problem in a lot of areas finding people who "get it" in
> this industry.  There really is no school for it and most WISPs are self
> taught self motivated people with some original skills.  So people coming
> in need to have a desire to work and learn something new our our brand of
> wireless.  Problem is most wireless engineers get into it for big dollars
> at a major telecom.
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
> --
> *From: *"chuck" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 10, 2020 12:20:27 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] OT Hiring
>
> We are doing another round of hiring.  Had 12 interviews scheduled today.
> So far 0 out of the first 4 have shown up.  Last time we did this the ratio
> was 1 out of 5.  So the next one is absolutely positively guaranteed to
> show
>
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Re: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies

[Chris Fabien]

We have done some with LCA and process has been fine but rates a bit high.
Latest equipment we have financed through the dealer at around 5-5.5% I
believe.

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 1:33 PM Dev  wrote:

> Has anyone had a good experience with equipment lease/purchase/finance
> companies for things like mini-ex, directional bore, etc? Our local banks
> are totally clueless on equipment, so you have to go find a broker (who
> takes a cut) who shops it to an out-of-state non-retail bank.
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Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN License Expiry

[Chris Fabien]

So sounds like consensus is we can continue to operate under the NN license
until 10/24/2022?
I do have these AP locations registered and will double check power is
within limits.
Thanks
Chris


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 10:32 AM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

> I would very much second that statement - make sure you are following all
> the rules for 90z going forward.
>
> Mark
>
> On Feb 26, 2020, at 10:25 AM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
>
> Yeah, but tricky part is going to be stuff that's still operating legally
> under an unexpired license that the SAS can't manage. I think it would be
> wise to make sure everything is properly registered and you're not doing
> anything questionable if you plan to keep operating under the old rules
> much beyond April.
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:17 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> I was told when I asked about examples being made that hopefully SAS will
>> sort things out on its own. If it goes outside of SAS being able to manage
>> an issue, such all illegal operators, particularly when more sensing
>> capability comes into play with SAS 2.0, you do not want to be the guy who
>> gets nailed. Apparently this iteration of the SAS modality is an entry run
>> for a much larger spectrum management, as is the cowboy days are over
>> moving forward
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:54 AM Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, I agree, they probably will make an example out of a few
>>> operators. But I don't see any reason why they'd bother with somebody who
>>> still has a valid license. They'll probably go after some guys that are
>>> blatantly running some old Ubiquiti or WiMax gear after their license
>>> expires.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 6:56 AM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>>>

 > On Feb 25, 2020, at 5:20 PM, Mathew Howard 
 wrote:
 >
 > 

 > I would assume that if a CBRS operator puts up gear that you're
 interfering with, it's going to be handled pretty much the same way it was
 under the old rules (in other words, work it out with eachother, or shut up
 and live with it)... there's a reason that they made 3650-3700 GAA only.
 >

 I would expect the FCC to make an example of a couple of operators who
 continue to operate 90z equipment illegally after the license expires.   We
 all have too much to lose here if the operators are not running legally and
 the mobile industry starts another attempt to push everyone out that isn’t
 a mobile carrier.

 Mark


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Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 NN License Expiry

[Chris Fabien]

No...

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 1:11 PM Eric Nielsen  wrote:

> Did you register for grandfathered status before the deadline?
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 12:51 PM Chris Fabien  wrote:
>
>> We have a little bit of old WiMax gear, PMP320 and Telrad. At some point
>> my understanding was we could operate this until the expiry of our 10 year
>> license. Has that changed now? We are not planning to deploy anything under
>> CBRS just will let these few customers stay on until we have to shut it
>> down.
>> Thanks
>> Chris
>>
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> ericlniel...@gmail.com
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[AFMUG] 3.65 NN License Expiry

[Chris Fabien]

We have a little bit of old WiMax gear, PMP320 and Telrad. At some point my
understanding was we could operate this until the expiry of our 10 year
license. Has that changed now? We are not planning to deploy anything under
CBRS just will let these few customers stay on until we have to shut it
down.
Thanks
Chris
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Re: [AFMUG] Cable TV Monies

[Chris Fabien]

Matt, come for a visit in Michigan and I can take you around to several
smaller companies building out fiber in rural areas with private funding.
We ARE seeing it, I am doing it personally with over 60 miles of fiber in
the ground now.

On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 12:48 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> So why are we not seeing the same thing with fiber optic then?  Why are we
> needing USDA grants?  Here in PA much of rural areas are covered by Zito
> Media that was various smaller cable companies.
>
> > On Jan 9, 2020, at 12:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> >
> > I think it was all private money.  Lots of little cable companies that
> were acquired to form the big ones we have now.  For example, Comcast in my
> area used to be Jones Intercable:
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jones_Intercable
> >
> > I don't know of any cable TV systems in very rural areas.  They
> typically cover towns but not the outside areas.  Not profitable to run
> coax where there aren't a lot of people.  Franchise agreements might have
> required them to cover the entire incorporated area of the town, otherwise
> they might not even extend to the edge of town.
> >
> > I'm guessing cable TV systems were pretty profitable, hence lots of
> people started them.  And originally cable franchises were like a monopoly,
> you didn't have to compete with 10 other providers on price, and it was an
> asset you could sell.  Even today, the big cable companies have an
> unwritten agreement to mostly not compete in each others territory.
> >
> > In my WISP service area we have a small cable company that covers 4
> towns.  Not the rural areas, just the towns.  It is basically owned and run
> by one guy, I think the cable system was bankrupt and shut down for several
> years before that.
> >
> > www.heartlandcable.com
> >
> > There were a number of cable TV "magnates", the most famous maybe being
> John Malone, aka "The Cable Cowboy".
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> > Sent: Thursday, January 9, 2020 11:13 AM
> > To: af@af.afmug.com
> > Subject: [AFMUG] Cable TV Monies
> >
> > I know there are USF funds that have been used to build out internet and
> phone and other funding for electric.
> >
> > How did the early cable systems get funded?  I’m not necessarily talking
> about associations although certainly to some extent, but like full on
> analog cable TV systems in very rural area.
> >
> > The cost of copper is worse than fiber. How were these systems bank
> rolled?  Sometimes by a single private person.
> > --
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> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [AFMUG] why can't guys call tech support?

[Chris Fabien]

The ones I love are the wife calling in, husband clearly in same room and
won't talk on the phone himself, but wants to be controlling give the wife
a play by play.

"They say to find the black wire coming in from outside and follow it to
the power supply, see if it has a light lit"
"Mumble mumble argue argue back under the desk just look for it"
"Okay we are looking for it"
"Tell him this is F-Ing BS I ain't doing that"
"Umm we're still looking hold on"
"More arguing"


On Sat, Dec 21, 2019, 3:00 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> (rant warning, you might want to hit delete now)
>
>
>
> Does everyone experience certain customers of the male gender who will
> call their wife, girlfriend or mom (who is usually driving or at work) and
> have them call the ISP about a problem but will never just call directly?
>
>
>
> Am I lacking in empathy, and these are socially awkward dudes whose only
> social interaction is playing on the Xbox, and thank goodness for the
> Internet?  They may have a genuine medical or psychological condition, but
> I don’t think it’s an inability to talk, they are able to call the female
> person in their life about the Internet problem.
>
>
>
> I am wondering if I’m just being a dick, having a mental image of these
> guys sitting at home playing games while their wife or mom is out working,
> and they can’t call the Internet place themselves.  Maybe they are
> stay-at-home dads trying to get multiple kids fed and diapers changed while
> their wife is out having a fun time and the least she can do is call and
> get the Internet fixed.
>
>
>
> I suspect it’s biology, or how we raise girls vs boys, or maybe the
> insidious effect of online gaming on social skills or lack thereof.
>
>
>
> Yesterday I was at a quite large house that a family had just closed on,
> trying to set up WiFi throughout the house.  Mom (high powered professional
> who needs Internet for work), dad, daughter home on break from college, and
> son.  The daughter handled all the tech questions and decisions, very good
> communication skills and decision making.  The son hardly said a word, was
> just waiting for the moving truck to bring his Xbox, only concern was
> Ethernet connection in the bedroom that was to be his gaming room, had to
> be “hardwired”, couldn’t be WiFi.  Now maybe he has autism or something,
> but it just felt like the stereotype of young men who can’t talk to other
> people IRL, only online.
>
>
>
> OK, sorry, this turned into a rant.  And my question is probably
> rhetorical.  I’m pretty sure you all have customers like this.  It’s just
> frustrating to try and do tech support when the person who is actually at
> the site and experiencing the problem doesn’t call himself, he calls
> someone else who is at work or driving or at the store or picking the kids
> up from school.  I wonder how outsourced tech support handles this?  Maybe
> the obvious way – call us when you get home.
> --
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[AFMUG] Commercial Shop Building

[Chris Fabien]

Hey AF guys,
We are going to be consolidating our office/tech employees and our fiber
construction in a new facility, buying an existing office building and we
will add a shop/warehouse building to be storage, vehicle parking, and
equipment maintenance. I have seen some related discussion on the list so
interested in any input on particulars of building design that will work
best for our uses.

Thinking a 60x60 building. Unsure whether "pole barn" style or a steel
building. Not sure what's best type of heat in a building with big doors
opening occasionally. Any other suggestions or input are welcome.

Thanks
Chris
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber question

[Chris Fabien]

We have powered cabinets in the ROW. Has been fine so far. One adjacent
homeowner was a PIA for a while.

On Mon, Oct 21, 2019, 8:42 PM Jon Langeler 
wrote:

> Thanks guys! I might check both avenues
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
>
> On Oct 21, 2019, at 7:36 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> 
> I do both.  Frequently the ROW is wide enough and the local road
> department will authorize the cabinet.  Once it is there it is there.
> Private easements can become difficult if not negotiated properly.
>
> *From:* Jon Langeler
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 22, 2019 12:25 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Fiber question
>
> Having to put a Purcell cabinet with fiber switching in the RoW. Is that
> normal to use the RoW or sublease 5ft sq from a private owner? Extra
> paperwork involved?
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] ZTE Fiber onu availability

[Chris Fabien]

The china sources I have do not have the AC wifi models We just run the
F660 4-port ONU in bridge mode and use standalone router.


On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 9:39 AM Louis Arsenault  wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> We are running short on ZTE ONU's. ZTE Corp says they are out of stock and
> may not ever get more.
>
> We are looking for
> English Firmware
> 4 GE
> 1 or 2 phone lines
> AC Wireless (2.4Ghz + 5Ghz)
>
> Anyone recommend a seller on Alibaba or know anyone looking to offload
> some units.
>
> --
> -Louis
>
> NTInet
> O: 803-533-1660 X 207
> C: 803-997-0004
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Re: [AFMUG] tecnu

[Chris Fabien]

I'm lucky to not be sensitive to posion ivy but I've always recommended
rubbing alcohol to remove. Even handed the guys commscope alcohol wipes
that come with splice cases in a pinch. Seems to do the trick.

On Thu, Aug 8, 2019, 9:44 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> I always thought mineral spirits tasted like refined kerosene, im assuming
> the taste test isnt a part of the chemistry testing though. Anything that
> dissolves oil should be good though.
> Rubbing alcohol or hand sanitizer probably works as long as its rinsed
> off, but the higher content dries quicker, so less distilled keeps
> everything soluable  for removal.
> I found out a few years ago bragging i used to be immune from poison ivy
> cutting  a tree covered in it and holding my crank while evacuating the
> bladder that i am, in fact, no longer immune.
> When the red is on it, ive been told its almost a powder, like pollen, so
> i dont know.
>
> On Thu, Aug 8, 2019, 2:16 PM  wrote:
>
>> Not much.  We use it in our parts washer.
>>
>> It does not have flammability warnings on it.
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 8, 2019 12:59 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] tecnu
>>
>>
>> Well, the ingredients list for Tecnu lists mineral spirits.  I wonder if
>> it’s flammable.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 8, 2019 1:04 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] tecnu
>>
>>
>>
>> My mom uses some soap that getis it off, comes in a metal tin, dont
>> recall what it is. we sunk out boat at the lake the other day and had to
>> use a rope and stick winch to get it up before the corps saw it. the only
>> tree was in a muddle of poison ivy so we were twisting the rope in the
>> leaves, had to go in when we got the boat up enough to pull off the smaller
>> motor, the gas tanks were leaking and i was covered in gas. so im guessing
>> gasoline works good too since im clear so far.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 8:06 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>> My Mom used to insist on using Fels Naptha soap
>> . She was very sensitive to
>> poison ivy, but loved collecting mushrooms where I grew up. She would
>> always wash up with the stuff after a mushroom outing.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/7/2019 5:57 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> As someone who is ridiculously allergic to poison ivy/oak:
>>
>>
>>
>> Tecnu works.  I keep it on hand.  Dawn+cold water also works as it cuts
>> the oil.  There are also some other soaps that are typically available at
>> outdoors stores that are known to work if applied immediately after
>> exposure.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 8:52 AM Andrew Haninger  wrote:
>>
>> It seems to me that plain soap and water (if available) should also do
>> the trick.
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oyoDRHpQK0
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 8:44 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>> >
>> > What we do instead of Tecnu is just carry a bottle of rubbing alcohol
>> > and a roll of paper towels. Alcohol will cut the usushiol without
>> > opening the pores on your skin. Pour a liberal amount of alcohol on a
>> > paper towel and wipe it over your arms (or face or legs or hands), and
>> > dispose of the paper towel in a plastic or paper bag. Use each towel
>> > once so you're not just spreading the oil around. This is pretty
>> > effective, and costs a lot less than Tecnu and it's available almost
>> > anywhere.
>> >
>> > As a point of note; if you shower after exposure to poison oak or poison
>> > ivy, don't take a hot shower. Take a cold shower because you don't want
>> > to open the pores on your skin.
>> >
>> > Lessons from field work...
>> >
>> > bp
>> > 
>> >
>> > On 8/7/2019 4:11 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>> > > I've tried Tecnu as well as degreasers such as Gojo and Super Orange.
>> > > I figure if it removes black motor grease from my skin it should work
>> > > on poison ivy.  I can't tell if either works or not.
>> > >
>> > > Bill Prince wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Yes, it works. The open space district field workers use it all the
>> > >> time. You can get it in pharmacies around here.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> bp
>> > >> 
>> > >>
>> > >> On 8/6/2019 6:21 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> There’s a product on Amazon called Tecnu that claims to remove the
>> > >>> oil from poison ivy/oak if you use it right away.  Can anyone
>> verify?
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Unfortunately you would have to buy it ahead of time and have it
>> > >>> with you, along with running cool water.  Kind of like the products
>> > >>> they sell at pet stores to get skunk smell out of your dog, it’s
>> > >>> great if you buy it before the actual skunk incident and can grab it
>> > >>> quick and also have a hose.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> >
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Future FTTH bandwidth usage standard

[Chris Fabien]

Mark, I'm working on a grant application and they are wanting to see proof
(and a PE stamp) on the design that it will meet performance requirements
for X years. I'm very comfortable with GPON at a 32 split or less being
fine for probably at least 8+ years.  Just was asking if there is an
industry standard way of calculating this or if everyone doesn't worry
about it. I suppose it would be much more relevant if we were proposing a
VDSL system instead of FTTH.

On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 8:36 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Chris,
>
> Does it really matter?  If you are AE you get 1GB per customer dedicated.
> Not too hard or expensive to to bump that to 10GB per customer dedicated.
> GPON does 2.5Gbps per pon usually shared by 32 customers.  New 10 Gbps PON
> will do 10 per pon or I've even heard that they can do 40Gbps per pon using
> different wave lengths.
>
> Our system has been up and running for 6+ years.  I've had to upgrade
> switches and routers.  Even had to upgrade to sfp+ uplink cards on one of
> my fiber systems.  Haven't had to touch GPON cards or customer ONT's.  In
> my system I see the 2.5Gbps PON lasting for many many years unless
> something drastic happens.
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Thursday, August 8, 2019, 6:34:06 PM, you wrote:
>
>
> Is there any standard or common rule of thumb to design for future usage
> when designing a FTTH deployment? As in, we estimate average usage per sub
> to be 2Mbps now and increase by 40% per year. The intent being to certify
> that your design will meet demand for say 10 years.
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Re: [AFMUG] Future FTTH bandwidth usage standard

[Chris Fabien]

How do you forecast that to increase in the future?  Double every year?
Every 2 years? Is there a Moore's Law for bandwidth usage?


On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 6:37 PM  wrote:

> 4 Mbps is what my average works out to.
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 8, 2019 4:34 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Future FTTH bandwidth usage standard
>
> Is there any standard or common rule of thumb to design for future usage
> when designing a FTTH deployment? As in, we estimate average usage per sub
> to be 2Mbps now and increase by 40% per year. The intent being to certify
> that your design will meet demand for say 10 years.
>
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[AFMUG] Future FTTH bandwidth usage standard

[Chris Fabien]

Is there any standard or common rule of thumb to design for future usage
when designing a FTTH deployment? As in, we estimate average usage per sub
to be 2Mbps now and increase by 40% per year. The intent being to certify
that your design will meet demand for say 10 years.
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Re: [AFMUG] Indoor/Outdoor Fiber Patch

[Chris Fabien]

Corning makes a "rugged drop" assembly Graybar has them in stock in several
sizes. Not armored but very sturdy jacket, I think they only come in SC/APC
ends. We use for run from NID to a baseboard jack.

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 11:22 AM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> I need an outdoor, possibly armored fiber patch cable to run from my
> splice point on the outside of the customer's house to a NID located
> indoors. Does anyone have a good source for these? I don't need them to be
> too long, since I can likely mount just inside of the house.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jason
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