Re: [AFMUG] It has begun

[Chuck Macenski]

In today's politics, what exactly is the definition for right and left?

On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 6:45 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> I wouldn't put Putin or Kim Jong Un on the left.
>
> What I struggle with is the Great Orange Jesus (GOJ). Is he left or right?
> I say neither extreme left or right. Just extreme. He got a bunch of the
> extreme right to side with him, but I don't believe he was on anyone's side
> but his own.
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 3/24/2023 3:14 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Karl Marx
> Lenin
> Stalin
> Putin
>
> Pretty sure those dudes were far worst than Trump
> Even Castro
> Kim Jong Un
>
> Seriously you thing the far left are better?
>
> *From:* Darin Steffl
> *Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2023 3:54 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>
> The extreme left is still better than the extreme right.
>
> I don't agree with either sides' extremes but if I had to pick one side,
> everyone being taken care of, like socialism, I'd pick that over the
> extreme right who wants to murder anyone different than them. Like far
> right pastors and supporters who call for violence and murder of gay
> people, people of color, and liberals. I can find thousands of posts and
> video from Republicans calling for sick things but very few liberals saying
> the same things.
>
> I don't see far left people calling for violence and murder of people they
> disagree with.
>
> So while there are two sides, one side is better than the other, as in
> less violent and extreme.
>
> I'd take free college for all, free Healthcare, and more from the extreme
> left over the extreme right who wants to ban books, kill people they
> disagree with, try to overturn elections, cheat, lie, steal, etc. Again,
> the left is the better choice when it comes to empathy and taking care of
> people.
>
> While an average republican might not agree with the far right, their
> silence is the same as being complicit in their sick beliefs.
>
> At least an average Democrat calls out the far left people like I do. I
> don't agree in wiping out all student loans, for example. And I've
> contacted democrats I've voted for to voice my opinions.
>
> I don't see Republicans calling out far right politicians who are spewing
> hate everyday. I wish they would but since they aren't, I assume they agree
> with the hate speech and calls for violence.
>
> The right is far sicker than the left in every regard. Donald being
> elected over Hillary will go down in history as one of the worst political
> events in our country. We would be a much nicer and stable country if
> Hillary won. The racists, bigots, and violent people would mostly be hiding
> still but Donald gave them permission to act out their hate when he was
> elected. It's very sad.
>
> People who still support Donald are bullies and hate America at this point.
>
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2023, 4:37 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> Ouchie!
>> You called me the C word...
>>
>>
>> *From:* Robert
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2023 3:32 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>>
>> exactly this...  What I have learned is there is such a thing as a good
>> cult, which is what I consider the Mormon church to be.  They have a few
>> extreme points of view but on the whole they treat everyone ( now including
>> other races ) reasonably...   And they care about kids and back it up.
>>
>> On 3/24/23 2:12 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> I loved what the Gov of Utah told a bunch of school kids yesterday.
>>
>> “Republicans are wrong about Democrats and Democrats are wrong about
>> Republicans. Why? Here’s why — because, what we’re doing now is we’re only
>> listening to the most extreme voices in those parties. So Republicans are
>> only listening to the craziest Democrats and assuming that all Democrats
>> are like that. Democrats are only listening to the craziest Republicans and
>> assuming all Republicans are like that. When the difference between the
>> average Democrat and the average Republican, really isn’t that big.”
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2023 12:37 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>>
>> There's no meaningful difference between authoritarian left and
>> authoritarian right, which are what catch the most attention.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange

[Chuck Macenski]

One way to say it: "The youth of today cannot live on $15 an hour so a lot
of candidates will not even walk through the door because other places even
in the field of welding pay higher to start."

Another way to say it: "The youth of today will not invest in themselves."


On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 9:48 PM Ryan Ray  wrote:

> A lot of what is happening now can be attributed to housing imho.
>
> A house is your domain. The place you get things done. Your mind expands,
> you have more space to enjoy hobbies or learn something new. Personally, I
> don’t get that from an apartment when I have to worry about my neighbours
> and volume levels and having no space to do anything.
>
> I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with making your own sandwich, or
> living at your appropriate means, but I don’t consider living with
> roommates living. It’s a stepping stone to the American dream (owning a
> house).
>
> My parents have told me about their times growing up, living in the single
> wide. The pipes would freeze every winter and my dad would be down there
> with the hair dryer in the 70’s to unthaw. That’s all fine and dandy. When
> they had me in 88, they bought a house, probably 1700sqft, it was nice. I
> wouldn’t have had the childhood I had by being in a trailer.
>
> I don’t really believe in religion of any kind, they all have valuable
> teachings (and not so valuable) but I think it’s just how you think about
> the world at large. Things are always changing, and I don’t think it’s a
> bad mantra to think that the new generation should have it better than
> generations past. Doesn’t mean you have to stop learning, or applying
> yourself. In Canada specifically our housing is so out of control that even
> a new family with one kid still has to rent and/or be in a small apartment
> unless they wait until they’re 40 and have had decent paying jobs (70k) a
> year for a while.
>
> Or live in the boonies and kill your own food, gather your own wood, and
> there’s nothing wrong with that either.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 5:25 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Exactly what problems are young people facing?  Almost every single one
>> that wants to can enlist in the military.  That will feed them and teach
>> them a skill (and some manners, and how to work) and they will come out
>> with the VA and GI Bill.  Pell grants, student loans.
>>
>> If someone wants to better themselves, they can.  Kids today have it far
>> easier than ever before.  Work from home, online classes that are free,
>> hell you can learn highly specialized technical stuff on Youtube.
>>
>> What is wrong with making yourself a sandwich?  If you are broke, don’t
>> f**king spend.  You are making my point for me.
>>
>> Oh, the horrors of having to cook your own food, walking to work and
>> living in a single wide.  Those are human rights abuses man!  (said all the
>> snowflakes and they melted and went down the storm sewer)
>>
>> Where on the stone tablets that Moses brought down from the mountain does
>> it say: “Young people should have it easier than you had it”?
>>
>> You eat what you kill.
>>
>>
>> https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/
>>
>>
>> *From:* Ryan Ray
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 5:55 PM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
>>
>> Not defeatist or jealousy or envy.
>>
>> I’m 34, I bought a 2500sqft house on a green belt in 2013 (25 Years old).
>> Sold my company, and I live an extremely comfortable life for someone my
>> age. No mortgage, a couple nice cars. I worked very hard, lots of long
>> nights, lots of learning to get to where I’m at, and did it all without
>> having any generational wealth to start with. To phrase it for you old
>> folks, I pulled myself up by my bootstraps.
>>
>> However, your attitude is what makes me call you a boomer. You seem to
>> have no empathy and are not willing to discuss the current problems facing
>> young people today. You keep referencing back to how you did it, and just a
>> few bucks in the 80's or the 70's or whatever. I could see it in your post.
>> Saying things like "Make a sandwich at home, ride the bus, live in a
>> trailer"
>>
>> Don't get me wrong Chuck, you're a smart guy. I've learned a lot from you
>> over the years both in person and through this list. I take that as one of
>> my core values is to listen to people, even when I think they're stupidly
>> wrong, and make sure I never close myself off to any viewpoint and that
>> makes me better in everything I do.
>>
>> I just think you're hand waving away a lot of current economic issues
>> plaguing the world. Young people should have it easier than you had it,
>> just like you had it easier than someone born in the 20's. Or should we
>> just keep letting trillion dollar corps run the world and you got yours, so
>> the young kids can go pound sand because their $18/hr job should suffice.
>> (BTW my first 

Re: [AFMUG] Old Canopy FW upgrade

[Chuck Macenski]

I live a peaceful life free of litigation. I would like to keep it that
way.

On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 4:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Sure be nice if some other Chuck gave you the cheat code to turn an SM
> into an AP...
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
> *Sent:* Monday, October 17, 2022 2:29 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Old Canopy FW upgrade
>
>
> I was ready to chime in.  Glad you got it.
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Old Canopy FW upgrade
> Date: Mon, Oct 17, 2022 2:27 PM
>
>
> Bill,
>
> Got it.  Gave up on trying to do an update directly on the unit.  Just set th 
> AP to auto-update and it took care of it for me.
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communicationswww.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Monday, October 17, 2022, 2:14:50 PM, you wrote:
>
> BP> IIRC, CNUT not only uses the SNMP community string, but it also needs to 
> login to the SM. Make sure you have the username/password set for CLI access.
>
>
> BP> bp
> BP> 
>
> BP> On 10/17/2022 11:09 AM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:
> >> I still have a couple of customers on Canopy FSK900.  Had to replace a 
> >> radio due to storm damage.  Radio is at FW 7.2.9.  I'm trying to upgrade 
> >> to 10.5.  Dusted off all my CNUT stuff.  Have everything loaded and 
> >> discovered, but keep getting "No SNMP response" from SM.  I can log into 
> >> SM and see the SNMP community and it matches the CNUT settings.  Tried v1 
> >> and v2c with no luck.  Any ideas?
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>   Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> >>
> >> Myakka Communications
> >> www.Myakka.com
> >>
> >>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing 
> listAF@af.afmug.comhttp://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Chuck Macenski]

As an FYI, I consider myself politically independent. Over my lifetime, I
have voted Republican more often than Democratic for president.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 1:28 PM Chuck Macenski  wrote:

> There are real immigration issues and they are messy. I am not defending
> anyone, but I don't see that Biden or Obama have much to do with my point.
>
> The Trump administration took kids from their parents with no records that
> would allow them to be reunited:
> https://www.npr.org/2022/08/11/1116917364/how-the-trump-white-house-misled-the-world-about-its-family-separation-policy
>
> I think we may be able to agree that it is nearly impossible to prove what
> Trump knew about anything, but this was a marquee issue for him. So perhaps
> he is not evil - he just didn't know (or care) what he was enabling. I
> guess that is a more favorable way to look at it.
>
> P.S. I know you will hate that I am sourcing from NPR, but I am too lazy
> to look up the federal court cases (where the evidence was laid out under
> oath). If you doubt this actually happened *and* it will change your mind,
> I will dig out references to at least one of them.
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 12:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> This is the part I have trouble with:  “with no intention of ever
>> allowing them to be reunited “
>> If that was true then that is evil.
>>
>> I just have a hard time that ever happened like that.  They were
>> separated yes.  That there was an intention of a permanent separation?
>> No.
>>
>> Who wanted to make the separation permanent?  And why?
>>
>> The Biden administration just separated a bunch of kids, flew them to
>> upstate NW last week.  Those kids are separated from their parents.  They
>> are farmed out to shelters and homes across a tri state area.  Sounds like
>> what you are describing to me...
>>
>> So evil if Trump does it but not evil if Biden does it?
>>
>> This also goes for chain link fenced compounds for “visitors”.
>>
>> Obama OK, Trump not OK, Biden OK.  ???
>>
>> Kids treated like dogs, oh my!!!  But only when republicans are in the
>> white house.  And only on liberal news media.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Chuck Macenski
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:52 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>
>> If separating children from their parents (albeit at the border) with no
>> intention of ever allowing them to be reunited isn't evil, I may not
>> understand the word's meaning.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.
>>>
>>> 69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have
>>> received at least one shot.
>>>
>>> So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those
>>> vaxxed, that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would
>>> be 60% of the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not
>>> vaxed add to that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates
>>> there was only 10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of
>>> conservatives have received at least one shot.  That is not a large
>>> percentage of anti vax  to me.  This is old, from one year ago:
>>> [image: image]
>>>
>>> I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce
>>> subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools.
>>> Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children.  To even talk
>>> about things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids.  So yes, a long
>>> play grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts.  They are
>>> rare but they are happening.  One of my daughters teaches jr high science.
>>> She is forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented
>>> from telling parents by the school district.
>>>
>>> In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation?  4th?  3rd?  Anti vaxers
>>> are probably second deviation.  So, yeah, not really fringe but in a
>>> minority.  I don’t get them at all.  They are all about latent side effects
>>> that eventually will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine.  Hey,
>>> all vaccines are experimental and have side effects.  Wonder what they say
>>> when an MRNA compound created by a computer cures their cancer someday...
>>> I have a good friend, anti vax to the max, he has long covid and is about
>>> d

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Chuck Macenski]

There are real immigration issues and they are messy. I am not defending
anyone, but I don't see that Biden or Obama have much to do with my point.

The Trump administration took kids from their parents with no records that
would allow them to be reunited:
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/11/1116917364/how-the-trump-white-house-misled-the-world-about-its-family-separation-policy

I think we may be able to agree that it is nearly impossible to prove what
Trump knew about anything, but this was a marquee issue for him. So perhaps
he is not evil - he just didn't know (or care) what he was enabling. I
guess that is a more favorable way to look at it.

P.S. I know you will hate that I am sourcing from NPR, but I am too lazy to
look up the federal court cases (where the evidence was laid out under
oath). If you doubt this actually happened *and* it will change your mind,
I will dig out references to at least one of them.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 12:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> This is the part I have trouble with:  “with no intention of ever allowing
> them to be reunited “
> If that was true then that is evil.
>
> I just have a hard time that ever happened like that.  They were separated
> yes.  That there was an intention of a permanent separation?  No.
>
> Who wanted to make the separation permanent?  And why?
>
> The Biden administration just separated a bunch of kids, flew them to
> upstate NW last week.  Those kids are separated from their parents.  They
> are farmed out to shelters and homes across a tri state area.  Sounds like
> what you are describing to me...
>
> So evil if Trump does it but not evil if Biden does it?
>
> This also goes for chain link fenced compounds for “visitors”.
>
> Obama OK, Trump not OK, Biden OK.  ???
>
> Kids treated like dogs, oh my!!!  But only when republicans are in the
> white house.  And only on liberal news media.
>
>
> *From:* Chuck Macenski
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:52 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>
> If separating children from their parents (albeit at the border) with no
> intention of ever allowing them to be reunited isn't evil, I may not
> understand the word's meaning.
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.
>>
>> 69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have
>> received at least one shot.
>>
>> So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those
>> vaxxed, that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would
>> be 60% of the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not
>> vaxed add to that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates
>> there was only 10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of
>> conservatives have received at least one shot.  That is not a large
>> percentage of anti vax  to me.  This is old, from one year ago:
>> [image: image]
>>
>> I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce
>> subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools.
>> Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children.  To even talk
>> about things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids.  So yes, a long
>> play grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts.  They are
>> rare but they are happening.  One of my daughters teaches jr high science.
>> She is forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented
>> from telling parents by the school district.
>>
>> In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation?  4th?  3rd?  Anti vaxers
>> are probably second deviation.  So, yeah, not really fringe but in a
>> minority.  I don’t get them at all.  They are all about latent side effects
>> that eventually will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine.  Hey,
>> all vaccines are experimental and have side effects.  Wonder what they say
>> when an MRNA compound created by a computer cures their cancer someday...
>> I have a good friend, anti vax to the max, he has long covid and is about
>> dead from it.  Has had it for most of the year.  Still and anti vaxxer and
>> denying he actually has covid.
>>
>> I don’t consider Trump evil, just blinded by his own megalomania and
>> stupid enough to enjoy the attention of sycophants.  He seems incapable of
>> critical thinking.  But hey, he is a TV personality, a showman, PT Barnum.
>> Who knows what he really thinks.  He plays for the ratings.
>>
>> He did do some good things. None of which will ever get play on MSNBC or
>> Huffpo.
>>
&g

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Chuck Macenski]

If separating children from their parents (albeit at the border) with no
intention of ever allowing them to be reunited isn't evil, I may not
understand the word's meaning.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Yes, indeed, look at the vaccination rates between the right and left.
>
> 69% of our nation is now fully vaxxed two shots or more and 80% have
> received at least one shot.
>
> So if you figure 100% of liberals are vaxed accounting for 50% of those
> vaxxed, that leaves the 30% of the total for the conservatives which would
> be 60% of the conservatives.  And that means all libs were vaxed.  Libs not
> vaxed add to that 60% number.  In polls separating blues and red vax rates
> there was only 10% difference between them.  So probably 65-70% of
> conservatives have received at least one shot.  That is not a large
> percentage of anti vax  to me.  This is old, from one year ago:
> [image: image]
>
> I do believe there is a concerted effort by fringe elements to introduce
> subjects to elementary students that have no place in public schools.
> Especially that fringe group that is attracted to children.  To even talk
> about things like that plant ideas in the heads of kids.  So yes, a long
> play grooming effort would be an apt moniker for such attempts.  They are
> rare but they are happening.  One of my daughters teaches jr high science.
> She is forced to help kids that want to transition and she is prevented
> from telling parents by the school district.
>
> In any event, fringe is what 5th std deviation?  4th?  3rd?  Anti vaxers
> are probably second deviation.  So, yeah, not really fringe but in a
> minority.  I don’t get them at all.  They are all about latent side effects
> that eventually will kill and the experimental nature of the vaccine.  Hey,
> all vaccines are experimental and have side effects.  Wonder what they say
> when an MRNA compound created by a computer cures their cancer someday...
> I have a good friend, anti vax to the max, he has long covid and is about
> dead from it.  Has had it for most of the year.  Still and anti vaxxer and
> denying he actually has covid.
>
> I don’t consider Trump evil, just blinded by his own megalomania and
> stupid enough to enjoy the attention of sycophants.  He seems incapable of
> critical thinking.  But hey, he is a TV personality, a showman, PT Barnum.
> Who knows what he really thinks.  He plays for the ratings.
>
> He did do some good things. None of which will ever get play on MSNBC or
> Huffpo.
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Darin Steffl
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 9:04 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>
> Chuck,
>
> The craziest conspiracy theories are probably believed by a small number
> of people, sure. But larger conspiracies like the covid vaccine will kill
> you is believed by a much larger percentage of Republicans. Just look at
> vaccine rates between the right and left. Many also believe rumors that all
> kids are being groomed in schools, there's litter boxes for kids that
> identify as a furry, that schools are teaching kids how to be gay, and
> more. I've talked to enough anti-vaxxers that they're not the fringe
> anymore.
>
> I live in rural MN and there's some people that have "fu*k Biden" flags or
> "trump won" flags up. A farmer also painted some hay bales that say trump
> won or "keep your guns, rights, and God". People flying an American flag
> with a trump flag right underneath. What they can't see is how un-American
> that is. I can't wait for the day that he passes away and these people see
> how much of an evil person he is.
>
> I would say that at least a majority of people who still support trump are
> as low as the sewer trash I'm seeing interviewed. Normally good people have
> been indoctrinated into the cult when you actually see them talk about
> trump.
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 8:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> Very few trump supporters can ce characterized as below.  You are
>> sampling the sewage concentrate distilled down be the left.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2022, at 12:48 AM, Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Rory,
>>
>> How can anyone say trump loves this country? He hates or is indifferent
>> to most everyone in it. He's a narcissist that ONLY cares about himself. He
>> doesn't care about you, me, or anyone that disagrees with him.
>>
>> He's tossed aside and stuck his mob of cult followers on anyone who
>> disobeys him, including people who work for him in office and during
>> campaigns. One mistake and he tells everyone you're worthless or against
>> him, then the targets of his hate start receiving death threats from his
>> followers. He's the least loyal person in office.
>>
>> The people still going to his rallies are mindless sheep. I've watched
>> dozens of interviews and the conspiracies people share are insane. JFK Jr
>> is still alive, Biden is really Obama with a mask on, 

Re: [AFMUG] Is Motorola Chuck still on afmug? (I forget his last name)

[Chuck Macenski]

I wish the author would have listed some of the names/email addresses to
see if there were any I knew. There were tons of proof of concept
"products" built in the research labs whose existence never escaped the
walls of Motorola. Often they were built to identify new technologies
that warranted future development work.

Working in the labs was fun, but you could never talk about what you were
working on. Canopy was one of the few that escaped when no one was looking
(this is more true than you might believe).

On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 11:33 PM Chuck Macenski  wrote:

> Heisenburg
>
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 11:21 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> Check out this article about an electric Corvette Motorola made in the
>> early 1990’s
>>
>>
>> https://www.thedrive.com/culture/we-found-motorolas-secret-chevy-corvette-ev-prototype-from-the-1990s
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sean Heskett
>>
>> ZIRKEL
>> Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
>> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Is Motorola Chuck still on afmug? (I forget his last name)

[Chuck Macenski]

Heisenburg

On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 11:21 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Check out this article about an electric Corvette Motorola made in the
> early 1990’s
>
>
> https://www.thedrive.com/culture/we-found-motorolas-secret-chevy-corvette-ev-prototype-from-the-1990s
>
>
>
> --
> Sean Heskett
>
> ZIRKEL
> Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Chemistry

[Chuck Macenski]

While I would like to say I remember this from Chemistry class, I believe
my first memory of this is from an episode of Breaking Bad.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 3:27 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> *Cis* and *trans* isomers  occur
> both in organic molecules and in inorganic coordination complexes. *Cis*
> and *trans* descriptors
>  are not used for
> cases of conformational isomerism
>  where the two
> geometric forms easily interconvert, such as most open-chain single-bonded
> structures; instead, the terms "*syn*" and "*anti*" are used.
>
> I am a conformational isomer.
> You may call my syn or sir.
> I call my dad’s sister anti.
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT post LENT

[Chuck Macenski]

I prefer the terms logical and reasonable.

On Sun, May 29, 2022 at 4:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> So, in other words boring and respectful?
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 29, 2022 3:29 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT mildly political
>
>
> David Brooks is merely a conservative; not an ultra wright-wing-nut.
>
> And Jonathan Capehart is merely a liberal; not an ultra left-wing-nut.
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 5/29/2022 1:31 PM, Chuck Macenski wrote:
>
> PBS NewsHour, Fridays,  Brooks and Capehart.
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 2:02 PM CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> I vaguely remember back in the 90s when there was a TV show called
>> hannity and combs. It actually put a liberal and a conservative on the
>> same debate show.   I never watched it I just knew it existed.
>>
>> We need something like that again.   People need to hear both sides.
>>
>> - Reply message -
>> From: "Zach Underwood" 
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT mildly political
>> Date: Thu, May 19, 2022 10:07 AM
>>
>> Calling out people does work but only if you have established
>> relationships and it is a relationship that both wish to keep going. It can
>> help humanize the problem and help the other person see the harm.
>>
>> On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 10:54 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, maybe their thin skin needs some toughening up.  Everyone could
>>> use some more grit.
>>>
>>> In my experience, those that feel compelled to “call out” people never
>>> affect positive change.  And frequently they harm themselves in the
>>> trying.  Becoming toxic themselves to those they are trying to
>>> shame/expose/coerce/educate/put down.
>>>
>>> What good does it do to tell some red necked construction worker that he
>>> is being racist?  I just avoid those with views I abhor.  And I try to
>>> teach by example.  But I never call anyone out.  At work, if they are my
>>> employee, I address the concern in private.  If they don’t change I fire
>>> them.
>>>
>>> Social justice warriors are idiots in my opinion.  They invent a noble
>>> cause with which to enshroud themselves while acting out in socially
>>> impolitic ways, a good reason, in their mind,  to be an anarchist.  Look at
>>> antifa and proud boys.
>>>
>>> Exact same people, doing the exact same things, for the exact same
>>> reasons.  The ONLY difference is some contrived battle line they are trying
>>> to advance.
>>>
>>> *From:* Cameron Crum
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 19, 2022 7:42 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT mildly political
>>>
>>> You stirred the liberal hornets nest now, Chuck.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 7:51 AM  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Weirdly opposite here.  My brothers are vocally alt-right.  All
>>>> ex-military, all purport to be Christian.  One is dead from substance abuse
>>>> and suffered a variety of mental health issues.  The surviving two are
>>>> always broke, angry, and unhappy.  I feel like I have to tiptoe around them
>>>> so they don’t fly off the handle about anything.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> …..and I’m not at all “woke”.  I just know it’s not for me to pass
>>>> judgement.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, this is NY.  Maybe they feel like they’re the rebels
>>>> fighting the evil liberal death star.  Maybe your kids in Utah feel like
>>>> they’re the rebels fighting the evil Republican death star.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 18, 2022 6:11 PM
>>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
>>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT mildly political
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Woke, broke, in therapy and crazy unhappy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is how I would describe some of my kids.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The alt right unwoke ones seem to have money and happiness.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>&

Re: [AFMUG] OT mildly political

[Chuck Macenski]

PBS NewsHour, Fridays,  Brooks and Capehart.

On Sat, May 28, 2022 at 2:02 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> I vaguely remember back in the 90s when there was a TV show called hannity
> and combs. It actually put a liberal and a conservative on the same
> debate show.   I never watched it I just knew it existed.
>
> We need something like that again.   People need to hear both sides.
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Zach Underwood" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT mildly political
> Date: Thu, May 19, 2022 10:07 AM
>
> Calling out people does work but only if you have established
> relationships and it is a relationship that both wish to keep going. It can
> help humanize the problem and help the other person see the harm.
>
> On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 10:54 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Well, maybe their thin skin needs some toughening up.  Everyone could use
>> some more grit.
>>
>> In my experience, those that feel compelled to “call out” people never
>> affect positive change.  And frequently they harm themselves in the
>> trying.  Becoming toxic themselves to those they are trying to
>> shame/expose/coerce/educate/put down.
>>
>> What good does it do to tell some red necked construction worker that he
>> is being racist?  I just avoid those with views I abhor.  And I try to
>> teach by example.  But I never call anyone out.  At work, if they are my
>> employee, I address the concern in private.  If they don’t change I fire
>> them.
>>
>> Social justice warriors are idiots in my opinion.  They invent a noble
>> cause with which to enshroud themselves while acting out in socially
>> impolitic ways, a good reason, in their mind,  to be an anarchist.  Look at
>> antifa and proud boys.
>>
>> Exact same people, doing the exact same things, for the exact same
>> reasons.  The ONLY difference is some contrived battle line they are trying
>> to advance.
>>
>> *From:* Cameron Crum
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 19, 2022 7:42 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT mildly political
>>
>> You stirred the liberal hornets nest now, Chuck.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 7:51 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Weirdly opposite here.  My brothers are vocally alt-right.  All
>>> ex-military, all purport to be Christian.  One is dead from substance abuse
>>> and suffered a variety of mental health issues.  The surviving two are
>>> always broke, angry, and unhappy.  I feel like I have to tiptoe around them
>>> so they don’t fly off the handle about anything.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> …..and I’m not at all “woke”.  I just know it’s not for me to pass
>>> judgement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On the other hand, this is NY.  Maybe they feel like they’re the rebels
>>> fighting the evil liberal death star.  Maybe your kids in Utah feel like
>>> they’re the rebels fighting the evil Republican death star.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 18, 2022 6:11 PM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT mildly political
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Woke, broke, in therapy and crazy unhappy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That is how I would describe some of my kids.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The alt right unwoke ones seem to have money and happiness.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Never expected I would not be able to speak my mind at family dinners
>>> just to be able to still see some of my kids.
>>>
>>> Feel like I was convicted in absentia, thrown in the hole for a lifetime
>>> sentence, but taken out of solitary confinement now and then at their whims
>>> just so they could claim to have compassion on me for a half hour walk in
>>> the woods.  Maybe longer if I pay for dinner.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Odd times
>>>
>>> I loved my parents and grandparents.
>>>
>>> Never felt they had to earn it.
>>>
>>> Never would have thought of condemning them for the things they said.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Funny, I have a sister that lives 1000 miles from me.  Our families were
>>> separate all while the kids were growing.
>>>
>>> But some of hers have done the same things to her.  Using the exact same
>>> vernacular.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Must have something to do with energy drinks I think.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug..com
>> 
>>
>
>
> --
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
> My website 
> advance-networking.com
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Test message. 2 weeks now.

[Chuck Macenski]

Looks like Bill might have been kicked off of the list...

On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 11:35 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Some of us are still here!
>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 8:31 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Are we all done?
>>
>> --
>> bp
>> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Microwave in Movies

[Chuck Macenski]

I see AF24s!

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 5:32 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> In one of the Tom Cruise Mission Impossible when he is on a motorcycle you
> see a tower with a dish and no dipole
>
> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 2:21 PM James Howard  wrote:
>
>> So they have Keanu Reeves playing Chuck?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 10, 2022 2:38 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Microwave in Movies
>>
>>
>>
>> Here are some screenshots from the movie showing the RF gear.  Doesn't
>> even look like they blurred out the UBNT logo in post.  Unless they added
>> it in post for realism
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/10/2022 2:24 PM, James Howard wrote:
>>
>> When I saw the subject on this email I thought it was going to be about
>> Chuck being in a movie with his current mad scientist microwave oven
>> project…….  Some sort of Japanese sci-fi movie with new enemies of Godzilla
>> coming out of the Utah deserts or something like that.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF   *On
>> Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 10, 2022 12:43 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> 
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown  
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Microwave in Movies
>>
>>
>>
>> Used to be I could see a stinger now and then in a movie or show or news
>> broadcase.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Daniel White
>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 10, 2022 11:34 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Microwave in Movies
>>
>>
>>
>> There is a BridgeWave GE60 and I think a SAF link up there.  I really
>> ought to stop the movie to look it over closer.
>>
>> My guess is it was/is Webpass rooftop site based on the equipment mix
>> but it could be a variety of vendors.  WiLine also used GE60s for instance.
>>
>> [image: photograph]
>>
>>
>> *Daniel White*Co-Founder
>>
>> *phone:* +1 (702) 470-2770
>> *direct:* +1 (702) 470-2766
>>
>> Bill Prince
>>
>> January 10, 2022 at 11:05
>>
>> I've been on a few rooftops in SF, and I can tell you there are all kinds
>> of vendor and non-vendor (AKA private) links all over the freaking place.
>> We at one time considered buying a small operator there, but the crazy RF
>> environment scared me away.
>>
>> I bet Peter knows some of them too.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Nate Burke
>>
>> January 10, 2022 at 09:45
>>
>> I was just watching Matrix Resurrections and noticed the rooftop
>> helicopter battle shot in San Francisco has a lot of microwave antennas on
>> it, quite a few are Ubiquiti.  Is that equipment anybody here?  Did you
>> know filming was happening?
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: are the Russkies trying to torpedo the ISS?

[Chuck Macenski]

"*never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity*
"

--- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 12:05 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> and not just aliens, but space aliens. Them's the worst kind.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 9/10/2021 9:45 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
> Not saying it's Aliens but it's Aliens
>
> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021, 10:03 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> First there was the story about the mysterious hole found in the Russian
>> space capsule. The Russkies tried to blame that on a (female) American
>> astronaut.
>>
>> Well, OK. Things happen.
>>
>> Then they sent up a new module that mysteriously fired a thruster and
>> spun the entire ISS around almost two full turns.
>>
>> Hmmm, my spidey sense is starting to tingle.
>>
>> Now I hear that a smoke alarm went off because some part of the Russian
>> section was emitting burning plastic smoke.
>>
>> You know, I think an oxygen-filled tin can a few hundred miles up in
>> orbit is no place to have a fire.
>>
>> and then... The Russians are telling us there are things that they can no
>> longer fix/repair?
>>
>> Are you feeling like something is about to go terribly wrong up there?
>>
>> --
>> bp
>> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] I had a dream...

[Chuck Macenski]

sniff sniff...

On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 12:45 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> I remember when Charles put great information up on the screen.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 11:59 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Chuck Macenski was always the star of the show.  I was always surprised
>> by
>> his candor.  Pretty sure he stuck his neck wy out for us at times.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Jay Weekley
>> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2021 8:22 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] I had a dream...
>>
>> I remember setting up the WiFi at the last one with you and Colin.
>>
>> Nate Burke wrote:
>> > That we were all back at the old school Animal Farm.  I had my laptop
>> > setup on a table, glass of Cola next to me, Beehive note pad in front
>> of
>> > me, listening to the Motorola Engineers explain exactly how the radios
>> > work.  Man I miss those.  It was the only vacation I would get during
>> the
>> > year.
>> >
>>
>> --
>> *Jay Weekley*
>> *Cyber Broadband
>> *
>>
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

[Chuck Macenski]

Assuming the vaccine is 90% effective, your neighbor (vaccinated) has a 9
in 10 chance of not getting it. Unvaccinated, your neighbor will get it
(per your scenario) and now has the ability to infect others. A good
analogy is critical-mass in a nuclear reactor; the vaccine represents the
control rods and the infected represent the decaying isotope. Drop the
control rods and the reaction stops - pull them out and the reaction goes
super-critical.

I wish I could tie this to Dr. Strangelove, but it is late and I am tired.



On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 9:27 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I laugh at the whole "get vaccinated so you dont give it to your neighbor"
> coming from the vaccinated who are spreading it to their neighbors.
>
> Good lulz.
>
> Anybody wanna charter a flight from texas to dc?
>
> On Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 8:01 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> Run Forrest
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Jul 24, 2021, at 6:09 PM, Jay Weekley 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Yay Alabama.
>> >
>> > Jaime Solorza wrote:
>> >> Getting vaccinated is just the correct thing to do...like polio and
>> other ones..
>> >> I don't see it as an infringement on my rights at all.
>> >> Families are dying in the south mostly...the virus doesn't give a shit
>> what you believe...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 4:38 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>I've been trying to stay out of this to avoid stirring this up
>> >>further, but, it's probably time for me to stick my $0.02 in...
>> >>
>> >>One primary role of government is to make rules or laws in places
>> >>where people's rights (or opinions) come in conflict with each
>> other.
>> >>
>> >>Pre-vaccine, the most likely way for me to be protected from
>> >>infection is if other people behaved like they might be a
>> >>carrier.   That is, limit social interaction, stay away from other
>> >>people if possible, wear masks, practice good hygiene.   Some
>> >>people didn't want to do this.  Other people didn't want to be
>> >>infected, but couldn't protect themselves effectively.   Both
>> >>sides had rights - the right to do what one wants vs the right not
>> >>to be infected by others who are a carrier.  Add to that the right
>> >>of being able to have an ICU bed available if you did end up
>> >>infected.   At this point, the government needed to step in and
>> >>make a decision about who's rights were going to be protected, and
>> >>because of the nature of COVID, most places ended up choosing the
>> >>rights of people not to be infected.
>> >>
>> >>Post-vaccine this conversation changes.   Now I  have a way to
>> >>protect myself.   Post-vaccination, my risk of dying or having
>> >>long-term effects from COVID is more like dying from the flu (if
>> >>not less).   As a result, now that anyone who wants a shot can get
>> >>one, I really could care less whether someone else wears a mask or
>> >>gets vaccinated.  Your choice.  And the government rules should
>> >>reflect that, which most of them do at this point.
>> >>
>> >>There is one main caveat, and that is that in some areas we're
>> >>going to have a resurgence of COVID among (mostly) the
>> >>unvaccinated.If unvaccinated people start to fill the hospital
>> >>ICU wards, then either we need to go back to mask mandates and
>> >>similar in those areas, OR we need to be willing to kick
>> >>unvaccinated people out of the ICU when they fill, and let them
>> >>die of COVID at home.  Yes, this is cold, but if you chose a path
>> >>that results in a higher risk of dying, then you should also take
>> >>the risk of there not being an ICU bed available to you if you
>> >>need it.
>> >>
>> >>There is also the concern about variants being generated by the
>> >>virus continuing to run rampant among parts of the population.
>>  I'm going to ignore this as this makes my point a bit more messy
>> >>as then you have to start asking difficult questions about what
>> >>the actual risk of this is versus the downside of forcing a
>> >>population to either be vaccinated or continue quarantine+mask
>> >>wearing.  I'm not convinced that there is strong enough evidence,
>> >>either way, to make a decision here.
>> >>
>> >>The other point which continues to be frustrating is that we need
>> >>people to make their decision about being vaccinated based on
>> >>actual facts.   Not based on talking points or conspiracy theories
>> >>from the left or the right.  The vaccine isn't magnetic.  The
>> >>vaccine, although still not fully FDA approved has proven to have
>> >>a lower statistical risk of bad outcomes than COVID itself.  No,
>> >>the vaccine isn't 100% effective, but it is highly effective.
>> No, the vaccines don't have tracking chips.  Even if you survive
>> >>COVID-19 (99% 

Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

[Chuck Macenski]

*get

On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 3:00 PM Chuck Macenski  wrote:

> Q: Why are people that are vaccinated so obsessed with people that aren’t
> vaccinated?
>
> A: A few reasons:
>
>- We are tired of wearing masks
>- We don't want to get sick (nothing is 100%)
>- We want open ICU beds in case we need them
>
> If you find someone who has had a conversation with their physician and it
> was recommended that they not getting the vaccine, sobeit. I don't think
> that happens very often.
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 2:44 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> One question:  Should Typhoid Mary have been allowed to just roam free?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 23, 2021, at 1:37 PM, David Coudron 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Here is what I find particularly challenging about suggesting that folks
>> who have chosen not to take the vaccine are not that smart.
>>
>>
>>
>>1. Folks who do that never talk about that fact that this is not an
>>FDA approved medicine/vaccine.   I took the Moderna vaccine, the paperwork
>>clearly stated several facts.  Among them are:
>>   1. This is not FDA approved.
>>   2. This “vaccine” has not been proven to prevent the virus.
>>   While we likely all agree that there is a very good likelihood that 
>> this
>>   “vaccine” will help prevent it, it is far from a proven fact.
>>2. The argument is, “there should be no reason to think this vaccine
>>isn’t safe since people aren’t dying from taking the vaccine”.Vaccines
>>are a risk/reward type of medical treatment.   Every medicine you take has
>>some level of side effect.   The vast majority of medicines have such
>>negligible side effects, that they are considered completely safe.   The
>>FDA approval process exists to ensure we understand the potential of
>>serious side effects and drug interaction issues.   If you are 30 years 
>> old
>>and folks are saying you have to take this experimental drug to prevent
>>this incredibly small chance of you becoming seriously ill or dying, it
>>seems like an intelligent thing to say “I am not sure the risk of getting
>>seriously ill or dying from this disease outweighs the risk of using an
>>experimental drug”.   It used to be that people relied upon a conversation
>>with their doctor to determine personal risk of disease and use of a
>>drug.Apparently we no longer do that.   We publicly shame people into
>>using experimental drugs.
>>3. Since it is not FDA approved, we don’t have a full understanding
>>of drug interactions with other medicines folks need to take.   We likely
>>understand the very common medicines, but, certainly not all.   We have 
>> FDA
>>approval processes for good reason.   If for example, you were under 40 
>> and
>>were taking seizure control medication, it would be very fair to hold off
>>on an experimental drug until it is fully understood if the vaccine might
>>lessen the effectiveness of the seizure control medication.   An 
>> incredibly
>>low risk of serious illness or death from the virus could turn into a good
>>chance of serious injury from seizure.   As far as I know data like that 
>> is
>>certainly not available yet.
>>4. Why do vaccinated people feel the need to belittle those that have
>>decided not to get vaccinated by an experimental drug?Does it make 
>> them
>>feel smarter?   We have people not getting flu vaccinations every year, 
>> and
>>that is with FDA approved medicine.   But now all of a sudden it is OK to
>>ridicule folks that are making a decision based limited data on an
>>experimental drug for which the majority of the population has a very low
>>chance of serious illness or death?   And when they do ridicule folks, 
>> they
>>never discuss the facts at hand, or want to have a serious discussion 
>> about
>>the risk/reward of this particular vaccine.   Two years from now, with an
>>FDA approval in place and a full understanding of drug interactions and
>>effectiveness of the vaccine the conversation might look completely
>>different.   Right now, I believe some very intelligent people are looking
>>at the risk/reward and saying “not now, but probably some day as this will
>>become the new yearly flu vaccine”.   Until then, my risk of virus related
>>illness doesn’t warrant a decision to take the vaccine.
>>5. Why are people that are vaccinated so obsessed

Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

[Chuck Macenski]

Q: Why are people that are vaccinated so obsessed with people that aren’t
vaccinated?

A: A few reasons:

   - We are tired of wearing masks
   - We don't want to get sick (nothing is 100%)
   - We want open ICU beds in case we need them

If you find someone who has had a conversation with their physician and it
was recommended that they not getting the vaccine, sobeit. I don't think
that happens very often.


On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 2:44 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> One question:  Should Typhoid Mary have been allowed to just roam free?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 23, 2021, at 1:37 PM, David Coudron 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Here is what I find particularly challenging about suggesting that folks
> who have chosen not to take the vaccine are not that smart.
>
>
>
>1. Folks who do that never talk about that fact that this is not an
>FDA approved medicine/vaccine.   I took the Moderna vaccine, the paperwork
>clearly stated several facts.  Among them are:
>   1. This is not FDA approved.
>   2. This “vaccine” has not been proven to prevent the virus.   While
>   we likely all agree that there is a very good likelihood that this
>   “vaccine” will help prevent it, it is far from a proven fact.
>2. The argument is, “there should be no reason to think this vaccine
>isn’t safe since people aren’t dying from taking the vaccine”.Vaccines
>are a risk/reward type of medical treatment.   Every medicine you take has
>some level of side effect.   The vast majority of medicines have such
>negligible side effects, that they are considered completely safe.   The
>FDA approval process exists to ensure we understand the potential of
>serious side effects and drug interaction issues.   If you are 30 years old
>and folks are saying you have to take this experimental drug to prevent
>this incredibly small chance of you becoming seriously ill or dying, it
>seems like an intelligent thing to say “I am not sure the risk of getting
>seriously ill or dying from this disease outweighs the risk of using an
>experimental drug”.   It used to be that people relied upon a conversation
>with their doctor to determine personal risk of disease and use of a
>drug.Apparently we no longer do that.   We publicly shame people into
>using experimental drugs.
>3. Since it is not FDA approved, we don’t have a full understanding of
>drug interactions with other medicines folks need to take.   We likely
>understand the very common medicines, but, certainly not all.   We have FDA
>approval processes for good reason.   If for example, you were under 40 and
>were taking seizure control medication, it would be very fair to hold off
>on an experimental drug until it is fully understood if the vaccine might
>lessen the effectiveness of the seizure control medication.   An incredibly
>low risk of serious illness or death from the virus could turn into a good
>chance of serious injury from seizure.   As far as I know data like that is
>certainly not available yet.
>4. Why do vaccinated people feel the need to belittle those that have
>decided not to get vaccinated by an experimental drug?Does it make them
>feel smarter?   We have people not getting flu vaccinations every year, and
>that is with FDA approved medicine.   But now all of a sudden it is OK to
>ridicule folks that are making a decision based limited data on an
>experimental drug for which the majority of the population has a very low
>chance of serious illness or death?   And when they do ridicule folks, they
>never discuss the facts at hand, or want to have a serious discussion about
>the risk/reward of this particular vaccine.   Two years from now, with an
>FDA approval in place and a full understanding of drug interactions and
>effectiveness of the vaccine the conversation might look completely
>different.   Right now, I believe some very intelligent people are looking
>at the risk/reward and saying “not now, but probably some day as this will
>become the new yearly flu vaccine”.   Until then, my risk of virus related
>illness doesn’t warrant a decision to take the vaccine.
>5. Why are people that are vaccinated so obsessed with people that
>aren’t vaccinated?   For those of us that are vaccinated, we are safe
>right?   That was the point of taking the vaccine.
>6. Most of the science that seems most accurate right now points to
>this being with us permanently like an influenza sort of virus.   It will
>show up every year with little mutations that will require updates, or
>boosters, or yearly covid shots.What ever you want to call them. Is
>really so stupid to wait until this is FDA approved before participating?
>If we have to do this without FDA approval, why does that process even
>exist?
>
>
>
> I have always appreciated this list because 

Re: [AFMUG] OT challenge

[Chuck Macenski]

I am very surprised myself, but, it looks like she still has her hair:
https://www.revolt.tv/news/2021/2/11/22278072/gorilla-glue-girl-hair-unstuck-dr-obeng-surgery

Better living through chemistry!

On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 9:55 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I would think you have removed the hair with a straight razor.  Maybe she
> thinks she can keep the hair.  I doubt that.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 11, 2021, at 6:53 AM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> 
> I did a stupid thing a time or two.
>
> She got it out, some plastic surgeon/chemist got it out. Im curious what
> all this did to the hair itself. Its been under this shell for a month but
> she had put so many solvents on its gotta be damaged beyond repair. That
> skin has got to be stinking like skin thats been in a cast. Its gonna peel
> like mad.
>
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 6:09 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> I'll talk this much: The police were involved, but since I was a juvenile
>> the records are sealed.
>> On 2/10/2021 11:43 PM, Chuck Macenski wrote:
>>
>> Just a reference to what I saw:
>> https://www.revolt.tv/news/2021/2/10/22277104/gorilla-glue-girl-denies-claims-lawsuit
>> . Here is the TMZ article going the other way:
>> https://www.tmz.com/2021/02/08/gorilla-glue-girl-unable-remove-glue-lawsuit-legal-action-sue-tiktok/
>> .
>>
>> This is one of those cases where I don't really know who has more (less)
>> credibility...neither is exactly the New York Times (or whatever you
>> consider the paper-of-record).
>>
>> I do feel a bit sorry for her. I suspect we have ALL done something
>> STUPID at some point in our lives (though some of us were smart enough not
>> to publicize it, and, no, I am not talking about it).
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 9:34 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lol, her suing was according to a statement directly from her because
>>> though it says not to ingest or get on skin it doesnt say amything about
>>> not using it on hair.
>>> Shes gonna need to get her statements in order
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 8:32 PM Chuck Macenski  wrote:
>>>
>>>> According to a statement directly from Tessica Brown, she "never ever
>>>> said that" wrt to suing anyone.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 8:26 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I want to punch that lady for threatening to sue. She did get her
>>>>> ponytail cut off tonite so shes making progress
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 6:18 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone up for the gorilla glue challenge...  make a tic tok if you do
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>> --
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>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT challenge

[Chuck Macenski]

Just a reference to what I saw:
https://www.revolt.tv/news/2021/2/10/22277104/gorilla-glue-girl-denies-claims-lawsuit
. Here is the TMZ article going the other way:
https://www.tmz.com/2021/02/08/gorilla-glue-girl-unable-remove-glue-lawsuit-legal-action-sue-tiktok/
.

This is one of those cases where I don't really know who has more (less)
credibility...neither is exactly the New York Times (or whatever you
consider the paper-of-record).

I do feel a bit sorry for her. I suspect we have ALL done something STUPID
at some point in our lives (though some of us were smart enough not to
publicize it, and, no, I am not talking about it).


On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 9:34 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Lol, her suing was according to a statement directly from her because
> though it says not to ingest or get on skin it doesnt say amything about
> not using it on hair.
> Shes gonna need to get her statements in order
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 8:32 PM Chuck Macenski  wrote:
>
>> According to a statement directly from Tessica Brown, she "never ever
>> said that" wrt to suing anyone.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 8:26 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I want to punch that lady for threatening to sue. She did get her
>>> ponytail cut off tonite so shes making progress
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 6:18 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anyone up for the gorilla glue challenge...  make a tic tok if you do
>>>> ...
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>> --
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT challenge

[Chuck Macenski]

According to a statement directly from Tessica Brown, she "never ever said
that" wrt to suing anyone.

On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 8:26 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I want to punch that lady for threatening to sue. She did get her ponytail
> cut off tonite so shes making progress
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 6:18 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> Anyone up for the gorilla glue challenge...  make a tic tok if you do ...
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT old timer question

[Chuck Macenski]

I saw those commercials on TV in NW Indiana / the Chicagoland area.

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 7:58 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I listened to a This American Life podcast about him last night.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 9, 2021, at 6:45 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> 
> You should read up on our local celebrity true life detective Jay J.
> Armes...his hands were blown off by those left by railroad tracks...
> He rescued Marlon Brando's son who was kidnapped using Cheater Bella , a
> Vietnam era helicopter pilot I believe from Baja California...he also
> started as an assassin on Hawaii Five 0...
> He was a pretty good county commissioner...
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021, 4:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> When I was young they had posters at grade school showing us what
>> blasting caps looked like and to tell a grup if we saw any.  I think there
>> may have been tv commercials too.  Just piqued my interest.  Maybe it was
>> due to growing up in logging country in Oregon.  Did they do this in other
>> places too?
>>
>> I found the lock open on an explosives locker at the county gravel pit
>> and played with caps and sticks of dynamite.  I never had the guts to
>> actually try to set it off but I took them out and messed with them.
>>
>> Couple of farm kids in the area got into their dads caps and it killed
>> one of them and blinded the other.
>>
>> I wonder when this ceased to be a thing?
>>
>> The big display boards they brought into JR High showing all the
>> different kinds of drugs piqued my interest too...
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Airfiber Repairs

[Chuck Macenski]

There was a brief window where AF-11 radios were only available as part of
a bundle; that is no longer the case.

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 9:06 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> If you can't depend on it to deploy, why depend on it to spare?
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 5:43 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> That's kinda how I feel, but there were rumors that UBNT was going to
>> stop selling the bare radios and only sell them in the kit with the dish,
>> so now you'd end up with a bunch of dishes you'd just throw out.  At least
>> repaired radios would sit on the shelf nicely.
>>
>> On 2/3/2021 2:33 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>
>> Personally, I wouldn't bother getting one repaired for $600. Even at
>> $300-400, I don't think I would, other than maybe to use as a spare, but
>> for $600, you aren't saving enough to be worth it over buying a new one, in
>> my opinion.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 2:24 PM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> SWG has been the go to repair for WISP stuff for like 10+ years I feel
>>> like.  I remember they fixed some AN50 for me back in the late 2000's.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 12:57 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>>>
 Anybody do Airfiber repairs?  I have a couple AF11 units that are dead
 to me unless someone can fix them.

 One shorts the power supply as soon as it's plugged in (lightening
 storm, but no external physical damage).

 Another looses Ethernet when the ambient temp is <15F.

 A $300 or $400 repair is cheaper than a new one.

 Once upon a time UNBT was doing some sort of repair program, but I
 think
 that might have only been for the 24ghz radios.

 A quick google search returned SWG.  Anybody use them?  Says $600 for a
 AF11 repair.

 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
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>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT NEC wire sizes

[Chuck Macenski]

Christmas tree lights have much smaller fuses built into the plugs...

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 1:33 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> When you buy a lamp or an electric mixer and plug it into a receptacle,
> the receptacle normally will be wired up with 12 or 14 gauge wire with a 15
> or 20 amp circuit breaker.
>
> Match the wire to the breaker and vise versa.
>
> But the appliance will have a 16 or 18 gauge wire in it.  Think of xmas
> tree lights.  How fine those wires are but still supplied with at least 15
> amps.
>
> I want to connect a blower motor in my shop to an existing circuit.  50
> amp 3 phase receptacle.  The blower motor only needs 3 amps.  I don’t want
> to change the circuit breaker.  I don’t want to install a motor starter
> relay.  Trying to be cheap, and safe but legal in the event something
> should happen.
>
> Any opinions?
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

[Chuck Macenski]

I give up (I am too old slow to be involved in a dual)

On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 8:44 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Sorry good chuck, but bad chuck is spitting fighting words. Its come to a
> duel
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2021, 7:13 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> LENT!
>>
>> *From:* Chuck Macenski
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 7, 2021 6:01 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB
>>
>> UBNT UBNT UBNT UBNT
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 5:12 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
>> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I hated sociology when I was in college, but had to take it.  I think
>>> sociology now would be fascinating.  Think about how far we have degraded
>>> as a society.  Of all people, the people on this list should not be
>>> surprised of where we are at.
>>>
>>> There has always been conspiracy theories.  Bigfoot, Area 51, JFK, etc.
>>> But in the pre-internet days, you really had to want to be a conspiracy
>>> person to get sucked in.  You had to subscribe to magazines, you had to
>>> find books at the store or library.  You really had to be dedicated to that
>>> conspiracy.  Most considered them urban legends, only a few took the deep
>>> dive.  It also helped that 99% of the news was centralized.  You watched a
>>> certain channel because you liked the person doing the reporting , not the
>>> news itself.  If there was spin, it was mostly all spun in the same
>>> direction.
>>>
>>> Then came the Internet.  Now we have BBS and chat rooms where these
>>> conspiracy people can virtually meet.  Still not an issue because a
>>> majority of the population is still getting their news from a centralized
>>> place.  CNN at this point was still main stream and in inline with the
>>> networks.
>>>
>>> Then AOL comes along and everyone starts getting on the Internet.
>>> Things start getting a little worst.  Remember Bonsai Kitten.  Hey, its on
>>> the Internet so it is true.  Forums start popping up, some people start
>>> building their own websites, e-mail is becoming more popular.  It's dial
>>> up, still takes a lot of work to get involved with the conspiracy guys.
>>> But now you have a bit easier access to the rabbit hole.  Most news is
>>> still consumed via TV and Newspapers.  Most events are still reported
>>> accurately.
>>>
>>> Then dedicated always on Internet shows up along with social media.
>>> This begins the downward spiral.  No more dial up.  You can create any type
>>> of bat shit crazy FB group/page.  You can post any type of video on
>>> youtube.  Now that rabbit hole is getting easier to navigate.  You can
>>> start blogging or vlogging.  You can setup websites via godaddy in a few
>>> clicks.  More people are starting to get their news via the Internet.  The
>>> news organizations start seeing this and begin their presence online.  News
>>> is starting to get a bit more blurry as some of these virtual news
>>> organizations start competing with the old timers.
>>>
>>> Then we get smart phones, snapchat, instagram, etc.  Now we have access
>>> to that rabbit hole wherever we are.  There is almost zero effort needed to
>>> make a post to social media.  Anyone with a selfie stick and a smart phone
>>> is now a reporter.  Virtual "news" channels streamed from someones basement
>>> are now on ROKU or FireStick.  There is no more centralize news.
>>> Everything is an opinion story.  Old school news outlets have to stop being
>>> independent and start leaning one way or another to survive in the new
>>> age.  All that matters now is followers, eyeballs and ad revenue.  Keep
>>> your eyeballs worked up as much as possible, so they come back or go deeper
>>> into the rabbit hole.
>>>
>>> As I said of all people, we on this list should not be surprised where
>>> we are as a country.  We watched this develop over the last 20+ years.
>>> Unfortunately, I really don't see how it gets better.  There was always
>>> some fringe groups out there, but now there is no such thing as fringe.
>>>
>>> Everyone has now been divided into tribes.  Red tribe, Blue tribe, LGQBT
>>> tribe, BLM tribe, Proud Boys tribe, Christian tribe, etc.  With social
>>> media we are now free to associated with only the people that agree with
>>> us.  We surround ourselves with yes men.  We rarely hear "The Rest of the
>>> Story".  Our believes are confir

Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

[Chuck Macenski]

UBNT UBNT UBNT UBNT

On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 5:12 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> I hated sociology when I was in college, but had to take it.  I think
> sociology now would be fascinating.  Think about how far we have degraded
> as a society.  Of all people, the people on this list should not be
> surprised of where we are at.
>
> There has always been conspiracy theories.  Bigfoot, Area 51, JFK, etc.
> But in the pre-internet days, you really had to want to be a conspiracy
> person to get sucked in.  You had to subscribe to magazines, you had to
> find books at the store or library.  You really had to be dedicated to that
> conspiracy.  Most considered them urban legends, only a few took the deep
> dive.  It also helped that 99% of the news was centralized.  You watched a
> certain channel because you liked the person doing the reporting , not the
> news itself.  If there was spin, it was mostly all spun in the same
> direction.
>
> Then came the Internet.  Now we have BBS and chat rooms where these
> conspiracy people can virtually meet.  Still not an issue because a
> majority of the population is still getting their news from a centralized
> place.  CNN at this point was still main stream and in inline with the
> networks.
>
> Then AOL comes along and everyone starts getting on the Internet.  Things
> start getting a little worst.  Remember Bonsai Kitten.  Hey, its on the
> Internet so it is true.  Forums start popping up, some people start
> building their own websites, e-mail is becoming more popular.  It's dial
> up, still takes a lot of work to get involved with the conspiracy guys.
> But now you have a bit easier access to the rabbit hole.  Most news is
> still consumed via TV and Newspapers.  Most events are still reported
> accurately.
>
> Then dedicated always on Internet shows up along with social media.  This
> begins the downward spiral.  No more dial up.  You can create any type of
> bat shit crazy FB group/page.  You can post any type of video on youtube.
> Now that rabbit hole is getting easier to navigate.  You can start blogging
> or vlogging.  You can setup websites via godaddy in a few clicks.  More
> people are starting to get their news via the Internet.  The news
> organizations start seeing this and begin their presence online.  News is
> starting to get a bit more blurry as some of these virtual news
> organizations start competing with the old timers.
>
> Then we get smart phones, snapchat, instagram, etc.  Now we have access to
> that rabbit hole wherever we are.  There is almost zero effort needed to
> make a post to social media.  Anyone with a selfie stick and a smart phone
> is now a reporter.  Virtual "news" channels streamed from someones basement
> are now on ROKU or FireStick.  There is no more centralize news.
> Everything is an opinion story.  Old school news outlets have to stop being
> independent and start leaning one way or another to survive in the new
> age.  All that matters now is followers, eyeballs and ad revenue.  Keep
> your eyeballs worked up as much as possible, so they come back or go deeper
> into the rabbit hole.
>
> As I said of all people, we on this list should not be surprised where we
> are as a country.  We watched this develop over the last 20+ years.
> Unfortunately, I really don't see how it gets better.  There was always
> some fringe groups out there, but now there is no such thing as fringe.
>
> Everyone has now been divided into tribes.  Red tribe, Blue tribe, LGQBT
> tribe, BLM tribe, Proud Boys tribe, Christian tribe, etc.  With social
> media we are now free to associated with only the people that agree with
> us.  We surround ourselves with yes men.  We rarely hear "The Rest of the
> Story".  Our believes are confirmed and reinforced each and every day until
> we are willing to die for them.  Chris Rock in the movie Dogma had a great
> quote "I just think it's better to have an idea. You can change an idea;
> changing a belief is trickier. People die for it, people kill for it."
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Thursday, January 7, 2021, 2:37:53 PM, you wrote:
>
>
> It seems like it should be pretty obvious to everyone at this point that
> no matter what is said on either side of these political issues that
> nothing is going to change the opinions and beliefs of people on the other
> side.  No matter how much “proof” either side has to show that they are
> right, no one is going to change their opinion.  I suppose there are always
> some people who straddle the fence (just watch out if you slip and it’s a
> picket or razor blade fence you’re straddling!) and might be swayed by
> something they see, but the reality is that nothing is gained by anyone by
> these conversations on a list like this.  In fact, much is lost……..
>  hopefully those that unsubscribed will come back.  Personally, as long as
> political 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Not all Texans are idiots

[Chuck Macenski]

Didn't they go to court in the states and lose?

On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 12:45 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> " I think the argument your making (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that
> they won't feel like they really lost unless they get to make their
> arguments in a courtroom and THEN lose.  I'm saying they'll feel like they
> didn't really lose no matter what,"
> Yes. but its separating the Tim McVeighs from the Housewife Bettys.
> So you have something like 80 percent of the trump voters thinking he was
> robbed (oddly enough a CNN poll showed 10 percent of democrat voters
> agreeing). Of that 80 percent, there probably 25 percent youre not going to
> get to ever listen to anything, theyre the ones who know alex jones is
> garbage but still listen to him, they also believe theres a pizza joint
> selling child sex slaves to rich people, theyre as bad as the cult of left
> 25 percent that still believe the russian collusion delusion. The remaining
> 55 percent will accept an actual case result from supreme court, as much as
> most of us dont care for unelected officials making decisions, the
> constitution matters. the biggest problem is that as we speak, the ilk of
> alex jones are onboarding them left and right. It doesnt help what West,
> who by most measures is respected (aside from bigot libs who call him Tom,
> but thats a whole other bucket of hypocrisy)  is talking openly about
> constitutional secession, not new speak, but given the climate, a very
> bloody prospect. He would tone down with a legitimate, constitutional
> ruling. Without it, the scotus is literally saying there is no recourse
> against a percieved wrong in the united states, at which point, the 2A
> becomes active.
> Like it or not, this is what it is.
>
> Like I said, the ilk of mcveigh, weather underground, black liberation
> army, ted Kaczynski, theyre all going to do what they do, regardless
>
> I dont personally care either way, Ill survive the two years biden is a
> half threat, Im not opposed to reeducation being not illegal for a period
> either. I just cant tolerate coawardice at the supreme court (the 3 last
> placements), and I dont like living in grey areas and I dont like the likes
> of alex jones being given credibility to my mother.
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 12:15 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> This case was dismissed for lack of standing.  Other cases were dismissed
>> for a variety of reasons including the evidence being specious or
>> deficient.  That's losing.  All of that is losing.  If it was Steve Jones
>> vs McCown Tech and it was dismissed then you'd say you lost.  There'd be no
>> doubt in your mind.
>>
>> I think the argument your making (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that
>> they won't feel like they really lost unless they get to make their
>> arguments in a courtroom and THEN lose.  I'm saying they'll feel like they
>> didn't really lose no matter what, and a courtroom just gives them another
>> pulpit to preach from.  If the evidence sucks, the arguments are illogical,
>> and/or they're asking for relief that the court can't give them, then
>> dismissing is the right move.
>>
>>
>> On 12/14/2020 12:34 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> Thats the issue, they havent "lost in court" they never went to court.
>> The court responsible for hearing it. No one is saying hear every case, but
>> cases of national importance and with immense national consequence need not
>> ever be punted. The vast majority of pro 2A people understand the 2a
>> isnt there for hunting game adn the lack of action on scotus part will
>> result in action elsewhere. There will be blood over this, and its not
>> necessary. Once scotus actually ruled after hearing the case, most would
>> move on. The tim mcveighs out there are building their bombs regardless.
>> But Jane Q would probably go back to canning beets. Instead right now shes
>> listening to alex jones (why does covid take charlie pride, but not alex
>> jones, somebody explain this)
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 11:18 AM Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If they heard every argument and *then* dismissed it, isn't that just a
>>> different kind of political messaging? Expedience mattered in this case
>>> because the EC vote was imminent.
>>>
>>> I realize there are nutters who will rationalize the outcome as "we were
>>> right, but the court didn't want to hear it because of a technicality."
>>> But if they went all the way through with it the same people would come up
>>> with some other reasoning why they actually were right.  There are still
>>> people who insist Nixon was framed, and people still think Iraq had
>>> functional WMD's.  Forevermore there will be people who believe Donald
>>> Trump actually won the 2020 election, and nothing the court says will ever
>>> change their minds.  Losing in court >50 times didn't matter to them, why
>>> would one more?
>>>
>>> I'm ready for "justsumname" to pipe and prove me right.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/14/2020 11:55 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT HR question

[Chuck Macenski]

Once again snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...

On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 12:19 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I wouldn’t think people in Utah would be so depressed that the Bears lost
> again.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Monday, December 7, 2020 12:06 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT HR question
>
>
>
> I think it has been this way in the manual labor field for a long time. I
> know in the 90's/early 2000's when we were building a lot of cell towers
> for different companies, the Monday-Tuesday after payday was always light
> on the construction crews/tower climbers. When I asked a foreman where
> people were, he told me Friday was payday. It was mostly the young, single
> guys, but it was pretty much understood that there would be less done early
> in the week after a Friday payday. My first thought was to fire anyone who
> didn't show up, but he told me that we'd be hard pressed to find enough
> guys if we started firing everyone who didn't show up after payday. It
> would be nice if everyone had a great work ethic, but then again, it makes
> people who do look that much better.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 11:19 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> I wonder if the lack of love life is directly proportional to the quality
> and quantity of porn.  Time domain.  Please provide graph…
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, December 7, 2020 9:58 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT HR question
>
>
>
> Millennials seem to believe all their problems are because their
> generation got screwed over by the baby boomers.  Not sure where this comes
> from, but it seems to be accepted fact among Bernie supporters.  Like I
> have student debt and a crummy job and no love life because of the damn
> baby boomers.
>
>
>
> Good luck telling them they’re lazy, you’ll get about the same reaction as
> telling someone from the MAGAverse to wear a mask. Or yeah yeah yeah, old
> man, I know, get off your lawn, and you used to walk 5 miles to school
> uphill both ways.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Monday, December 7, 2020 10:36 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT HR question
>
>
>
> Is it me or are today's younger workers lazy?
>
> I have a contract with a company that supports ICE with
> transportation...most of video pulls I do are for these guys' shenanigans...
>
> $35-45.00 an hour plus insurance...
>
> WTF...
>
> I earn my pay every fucking day...
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2020, 9:10 AM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
> We don't allow people to come in when they want. If they are sick they are
> out for the whole day. We feel it protects the workers that show up on time.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 9:59 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> If you have guys call in not feeling well, but they think they might be
> able to make it by noon, do you let them come in?
>
> Like why reward laziness/hangovers.  But if they are really sick, stay
> home and recuperate.
>
> Had 4 like that this morning.  One is recovering from gall bladder surgery
> last week, so it is understandable.
>
>
>
> Not sure about the rest.  Monday absenteeism after a payday smacks of drug
> usage in my opinion.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference

[Chuck Macenski]

I believe that many (most?) of them do care. I think they are caught in a
system where they are forced to play their tribal roles or risk having no
impact. I think that the influence of money in the political system is one
of the factors that has led us here.

That said, some of them have more integrity than others, some are driven by
the need to amass power (I consider that a character flaw), and many
(most?) voters are driven by emotion.

On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 12:41 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Darin,
>
> And yet here we sit harassing each other while they sit up there in
> Washington collecting their nice large paychecks, pocketing some lobbying
> money, having the best healthcare one can get, patting each other on the
> back and not really doing anything productive.
>
> We are at the point where people from either side are willing to destroy
> their lives over their party affiliation.  Do you really think any of them
> up there give a shit about us?  Things will never get fixed.  Because if
> they fix it, there will be nothing to rile up the sheep.
>
>
> This is equivalent to the obnoxious guy at the sports bar rooting for
> "his" team.  When they win he'll be yelling in your face "WE, did it".
>  "WE", unless you ordering your 10th beer and and downing your 20th chicken
> wing had a bearing on the game, "YOU" had nothing to do with it.
>
> These aren't OUR parties anymore.  They no longer represent the people.
> As long as they keep the people arguing among themselves, we won't notice
> them accomplishing nothing.
>
> Until we re-align the US and THEM from RED and BLUE back to the people and
> OUR representatives we are doomed to relive this every two years.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Friday, November 20, 2020, 12:46:23 PM, you wrote:
>
>
> Every politician SHOULD break from their party if they feel a different
> way about an issue. I don't believe in "falling in line" for everything.
>
> Good people think for themselves, not what their party's platform is.
>
> I'm fiscally a Republican but for human rights and equality, I'm a
> Democrat.
>
> Republicans have a very hard time showing they care about anyone other
> than white men. They need to stop treating women, blacks, gays, trans,
> different people as anything less than. And for gosh sake, stop trying to
> bring religion into Government. Have they not heard of separation of church
> and state?!?! Abortion should not be a federal government issue.
>
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 11:32 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> Mitt Romney is apparently willing to split from his party when he feels
> strongly about something.  Whether that means he's a "RINO" or it means he
> has personal integrity seems to be a matter of opinion.  I'm trying to
> think of a Democratic legislator who would break with party lines to agree
> with a Republican position on something.coming up blank.  Is Romney a
> Unicorn in that respect?
>
> On 11/20/2020 12:22 PM, Robert wrote:
>
> It would have been a really tough choice between Mitt and Biden for me.
> Probably would have crossed to Mitt.  Not that I am necessarily a democrat
> but I really don't like what the republican congress has become besides
> Mitt.
>
> On 11/20/20 9:15 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> I don't think anyone really knows for sure what he's worth, and that's
> part of how it's so easy to build different narratives about it.
> He seems to have received around $400 million from his parents.  About a
> million from a trust fund and the rest from a variety of revenue streams
> they set up for him.  If he's worth $2.5 billion today, that would imply
> something like 5% annual growth.  That's not an epic failure, but it's
> pretty modest.  Except guesses about his net worth range from $700mil to
> $7billion, and even he is inconsistent in what he says about it.  He's
> somewhere from terrible, to ok, to really good and everyone gets to fill in
> the blanks with their own version.
> I don't hate him, but I am embarrassed of him.  Every time I hear him
> speak, something unbelievable comes out.  His behavior before and during
> his presidency demonstrates deep moral failings.  His messaging seems to be
> about symbolic emotional cues without any regard to factuality (aka
> bullshitting).  I don't blame anybody for voting for him in 2016.  When it
> was Hillary Clinton against an unknown outsider, it's easy to say "let's
> give this outsider a shot."  I think at this point he's made it very clear
> that he doesn't know what to do with his office.
> I don't think Biden was anybody's first choice either, but if it comes to
> the lesser of evils then Biden seems the lesser.
> -Adam
>
>
> On 11/20/2020 10:47 AM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:
>
> Robert,
>
> You guys are right.  He is the Jacques Clouseau of the business world.
> Just fumbling and bumbling his way for the past 40 years.  No 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference

[Chuck Macenski]

As I recall, the suit they 'won' allowed those overseeing the counting
process to get within ~6 feet of the counters rather than ~15 feet.

On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 8:56 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> ;-).
>
> I have PBS Newshour running in the "background". Some things catch my
> attention; others not so much.
>
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 6:46 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> How does one “watch” NPR?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 19, 2020, at 7:33 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> I'm watching NPR as I type this, and according to the talking head OCP
>> and his cast of clowns are 1 for 32 suits. They didn't mention the one that
>> they one, except to say that it was inconsequential.
>>
>> --
>> bp
>> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 6:28 PM Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-campaign-lawsuits-election-results-2020-11
>>>
>>> Zero suits in trump's favor. He's lost and no amount of bogus lawsuits
>>> will change the outcome. His supporters will rally behind him and say
>>> "everyone is corrupt!!! The election was rigged!!! Biden is paying off all
>>> the judges!!! Lock Hillary up!!!"
>>>
>>> It's like watching a child throw a tantrum on repeat, a broken record.
>>> For all the shit Republicans give liberals by calling them snowflakes, I
>>> see way more snowflake behavior from trumpers since he took office.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 8:24 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I guess I should have said disputed.  If the number of problem ballots
 is smaller than the winning margin it as a non issue.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Nov 19, 2020, at 7:15 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

 
 FYI, 100% of the votes in our county, and near that number in the
 entire state of California are now absentee. I have been registered as
 permanent absentee for the last decade or so. If you want to invalidate all
 the absentee ballots in CA, that would be a very, very large number.

 --
 bp
 part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com


 On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 5:28 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
 wrote:

> Every election there are irregularities at 100% of the counties.
> Every single county clerk in the nation has unsigned ballots, people 
> voting
> for spouses, people doing absentee then voting in person.  Happens every
> time - every election - everywhere.  Nothing new there.  Mistakes are made
> because both man and machine make counting errors.  Happens every single
> election.Nothing nefarious about it.
>
>
>
> Now, lets say 50% of the absentee ballots were discarded, changed,
> forged whatever…  They might represent 1-2% of the total vote.  If someone
> won by a margin more than the total number of absentee ballots, who cares?
> Fix it next time.  Throw folks in jail, rend your garments, but the “wide
> spread” always present ubiquitous vote fraud, was not statistically
> significant to the outcome.
>
>
>
> To launch into such histrionics over  fly specks on the wall is
> disingenuous at best and an attempt to interfere with the election itself
> at worst.
>
>
>
> But we live in a world where every crack-pot on the planet can have a
> platform and attract a following of those with diminished capacities.
> Critical thinking is in short supply on social media.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
> McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 19, 2020 6:14 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference
>
>
>
> Not interesting.  And yes, it is totally over.  Just some refuse to
> accept it.
>
>
>
> Tantrums are not over.  On that point I guess you are right, tantrums
> are far from over.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *justsumname
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 19, 2020 5:21 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBdfxJdlvcE
>
>
>
> It is getting interesting, and this election thing is still far from
> over.
>
> --
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 2:45 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> lol, they just elected a guy president with the same cruelty, so thats
> not really much of a thing anymore
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 1:43 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> It’s cruel of people to keep putting Rudy in the public eye when
> clearly he’s not all there anymore, I don’t know if it’s dementia or what,
> but he needs to be sitting on a porch somewhere playing checkers, not
> making a fool of himself 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..

[Chuck Macenski]

If Trump were trying to undermine the United States, what would he be doing
differently?

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 8:14 PM Robert  wrote:

> Having the DOJ chase down military people who vote out of state for years
> because of normal military transfers ( 3K so far in NV ) which has been the
> normal state of affairs for over 70 years and characterize that as voter
> fraud is going a little bit too far in my book.  I still am hoping that he
> is going after that more about raising money than actually thinking he can
> corrupt the belief in the voting system.
>
>
> On 11/11/20 7:38 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I don’t agree at all.  Trump got elected because more than half the
> country really really really disliked Hillary.
>
> Really really really disliked Hillary.
>
> I don’t know of anyone that voted for Trump because they liked him.
> Everyone I know thought he was an ass hat from the get go.
>
> Second, you all have seen, first hand, for 4 years how little a president
> can actually do to harm a country.  Not much.  He didn’t start any wars so
> that is about the most damaging thing he can do.  He didn’t act on the
> virus properly but lots of countries fall into the same category.  He
> embarrassed us on the world stage.  That is about it.  Congress can affect
> us.  Presidents not so much.
>
> We have always had nationalists here.  It is part of the culture.  Some
> call it patriotism. I don’t think it is bad.  I am not a globalist.  I
> support our country and our national interests above other nations.  Part
> of rooting for the home team.  Being a patriot is a far stretch from
> dictatorship.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 11, 2020 8:01 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..
>
> The scariest part is how many actually voted for an inept nationalist
> xenophobic clown ...it portends of bad things ahead. Study history and you
> will see how this nationalism fervor led to Nazi growth in Europe...
> The proof is overwhelming...
> Prove me wrong.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 9:41 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> I cant take credit on that one
>>
>> Heres some crazy stuff, I'm pretty sure offering up campaign funds for
>> anything other than a campaign is illegal.
>> I told you guys, this is gonna get hilarious. By the time it's all said
>> and done, theyll find 100 percent evidence biden cheated and there will be
>> no republicans left not in prison for the RNC to put in the big seat.
>>
>> https://www.thedailybeast.com/texas-lt-gov-dan-patrick-offers-dollar1-million-in-campaign-funds-for-voter-fraud-evidence
>>
>> Was reading another article from one of the mainstreams about what
>> happens if there is no certification and the congress has to vote in a new
>> potus, apparently it's not limited to the two candidates, it's got to do
>> with aggregate votes and would potentially leave bernie sanders in a
>> position to be president. Its was MSM and they're full of shit all the time
>> but it sounded good. Can you imagine that, the dnc fucked this guy over
>> twice in a concerted effort, particularly in 2016 when he had a real good
>> chance of beating the republican., and then he pulls that feat off. I'd
>> love it. I hate his policies, and hed have zero chance of implementing 95
>> percent of them, but I'd pay to watch that happen.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 9:37 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>>> I might have to write that one down.
>>>
>>> On 11/10/2020 10:32 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>> > Hard times breed strong men, string men breed good times, good times
>>> > breed weak men, weak men breed hard times.
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..

[Chuck Macenski]

>From Wikipedia: *The Gateway Pundit* is an American far-right
[9]
 news and
opinion website. The website is known for publishing falsehoods, hoaxes,
and conspiracy theories .
[17] 

If someone has credible evidence that would overturn the election, it
should absolutely be brought before the courts. At the moment, all of the
evidence seems to point to a fair election where Donald Trump lost by over
4,000,000 votes.


On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 7:34 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Bullshit ..pure Bullshit
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020, 5:39 PM justsumname  wrote:
>
>> this thing is just getting started, gents.   It's only Monday.
>>
>>
>> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-ag-barr-authorizes-federal-prosecutors-pursue-substantial-allegations-voting-irregularities-2020-election-certified/
>>
>> RealClearPolitics un-calls Pennsylvania for Biden.   The state is grey on
>> their map, now.   Was Blue yesterday.
>>
>> I do not understand the vitriol against Mr Trump.   He's been an
>> excellent President for all Americans.
>> No I didn't ask... I can read everyone's comments, and I have.   For
>> years.
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 6:16 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> I wish they could invent a secure method to vote online.  But it has to
>>> be resistant to buying and selling votes.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Nov 9, 2020, at 3:52 PM, Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> It's pretty straight forward to verify integrity of the vote. We have
>>> already dont it with covid test results. We are blind ballot meaning no one
>>> can see who you voted for. Covid result eliminated anyone's ability to
>>> claim their vote was stolen or manipulated since you can check your results
>>> with your code. You can do the same without recording a name.
>>> If there is any question of validity in a count, it can be verified,
>>> fairly quickly.
>>>
>>> Covid built us a system to have a secure vote. Inadvertant side effects
>>> are the best side effects.
>>> You register, you are assigned your key. Your registration can be
>>> verified legitimate. You can even vote online. The tracing infrastructure
>>> can be used to canvass a contested district for verification of vote
>>> accuracy.
>>>
>>> This is the last election where fraud can be claimed... inadvertant, as
>>> is most of the left's mistakes
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020, 12:20 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>
 The advantage to that is that the records will probably last a long
 time. OTOH, storage might become an issue.

 bp
 

 On 11/9/2020 10:16 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

 In our county, we have to quarry a stone tablet, cart it down to the
 office, make an X with a tar crayon, and be able to lift on to the ballet
 cart to have the vote count.

 On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 10:10 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Our county typically uses touchscreen machines for in-person voting,
> both early and day-of.  (A paper tape record is also printed out and can 
> be
> verified by the voter)  Obviously these are very quick to process.
>
>
>
> Early voting sites were open for 15 days prior to the election.  In
> addition, there was one early voting site open 40 days prior to the
> election, but it used paper ballots.  Basically you filled out the same
> form as a mail-in ballot, sealed it, and dropped it in a box.  That’s how 
> I
> voted and I was disappointed that was the process, I thought they would
> scan them through a “tabulator” as the last step, just like back when we
> used paper ballots for day-of voting.  I expected as the last step before
> leaving I would feed the paper ballot into a scanner.  Instead I sealed it
> in an envelope and dropped it in a box.
>
>
>
> All the paper ballots including early in-person and mail-in were
> required to sit in the locked boxes until something like 7am on election
> day before they could start processing them.  This was apparently also the
> case in many battleground states.  They weren’t even allowed to open the
> envelopes, uncrease the forms, check signatures, nothing.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Monday, November 9, 2020 9:52 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..
>
>
>
> In our county (and I have no idea if this is the norm in the rest of
> the state), they count them as they come in, but hold the results in a
> secure area until the close of the in-person polls. Ballots that are
> postmarked (if they were mailed) up until the day of the election will be
> accepted for a certain amount of time, but 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..

[Chuck Macenski]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/us/politics/nixon-tried-to-spoil-johnsons-vietnam-peace-talks-in-68-notes-show.html

On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 10:59 AM  wrote:

> Nixon ended the war.  My dad hired hippies at the start of summer every
> year in Oregon.  Many of them were refugees from society believing
> civilization was coming to an end.  They loved to debate politics with me
> as a young man.  When they got down on Nixon I would just say he ended the
> war.  It always ended the debate.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 8, 2020 9:52 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..
>
> Nixon was intelligent, articulate and knew his shit.  He did some positive
> things for the USA ...too bad he fucked it up.
> Trump is best summed up in one word..
> Inept
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2020, 4:36 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Speaking of John Ford, you remind me of Gerald Ford who said "Our long
>> national nightmare is over." That was back in the days when you could shame
>> a corrupt president. I didn't particularly like Richard Nixon, but I still
>> have more respect for him than for 45.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 11/7/2020 3:21 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> The Founding Fathers didn’t account for the rise of political parties,
>> which came soon enough.
>>
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Electoral_College#Original_plan
>>
>>
>>
>> Somehow I’m reminded of the movie The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.  Set
>> in the fading days of the old west with territories becoming states and
>> deciding who to elect as their representatives.  Should it be Jimmy Stewart
>> the righteous lawyer, or Lee Marvin the outlaw gang leader?  The old
>> fashioned idea that you sent the brightest and best educated person to
>> Washington to represent you.  Hah!  Politicians are not held in great
>> esteem today, and we would probably vote for Liberty Valance.  I assume
>> everyone has seen the movie.  It’s an old John Ford western, in fact he
>> shot it in B, but it’s a must see.  Look at the cast – Jimmy Stewart,
>> John Wayne, Lee Marvin, Vera Miles, Andy Devine, Edmond O’Brien, John
>> Caradine, Lee Van Cleef.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Saturday, November 7, 2020 4:46 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..
>>
>>
>>
>> The three-fifths compromise was enacted long before California existed.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-fifths_Compromise
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>> On 11/7/2020 12:54 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>
>> U. No. The EC was created so that California has the same voice power
>> as Rhode Island.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 7, 2020, at 3:17 PM, Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Could have been over on Tuesday if we didn't have the silly Electoral
>> College shenanigans; which actually evolved from the crazy slave is 3/5 of
>> a person nonsense. Here we are ~~ 250 years later and we're still dealing
>> with decisions we made about slaves.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>> On 11/7/2020 11:15 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>
>> We have spoken.
>>
>>
>>
>> Righteous Indignation
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cell signals.

[Chuck Macenski]

"I still can’t wrap my head around how they get ∞x∞ MIMO and 1.21 gigawattsbits
from 5 MHz of spectrum. "

I don't think they do. From the most recent book I have on LTE
(forward-looking/dated 2011), it appears that they were planning to use
channels as wide as 20 MHz with an aggregation of as many as 5 channels
(effectively 100 MHz). Their target efficiency was between 7.5 and 15
bits/sec/Hz. Admittedly I have fallen behind in my cellular knowledge since
leaving Motorola.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 7:30 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> I have done passive antenna installs ...done right , they work
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 2:51 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Are cell signals V pol?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT (not political) first pitch

[Chuck Macenski]

I heard someone way he did it his way: threw it so that no one would catch
anything :)

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 12:56 PM  wrote:

> I like football on the radio too.  It induces a zen state.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 25, 2020 11:34 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT (not political) first pitch
>
> I wonder if the pitch was theatrics.
>
> I'm glad people who like baseball have baseball back though, may get
> people to calm their tits.
> I've always envied baseball fans who can listen to a game on the radio and
> enjoy the hell out of themselves.
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 12:01 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> One for certain is that I would have walked 30’ closer to the plate so my
>> pitch could have made it to the catcher.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> I dont like fauci going political at all, and I definitely don't like the
>> guy not following his own rules and then lying about it, but nobody should
>> hold that pitch against him. He on the mound at a major league stadium,
>> that's got to put butterflies in your tummy on it's own and then knowing
>> every baseball fan on the planet is watching one of the most historic
>> pitches in sports history. I probably would have just pissed myself and ran
>> into a wall
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 7:11 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> It's been quite a while since the guy was in high school. Hell, it's
>>> been a while since I was in high school, and he has several years on me. I
>>> think I can pitch better though. I can still play catch with my nephews.
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/24/2020 5:07 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>>
>>> Apparently Fauci was the captain of his Basketball team in high
>>> school.   So I would guess he's at least thrown a 9.5" round ball.
>>>
>>> I also know of at least one excellent basketball player that couldn't
>>> hit the side of a barn with a baseball.   Sink a basket from the half-line,
>>> no problem.   Pitch a strike, not gonna happen.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 2:09 PM Cameron Crum 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I don't think that guy has ever thrown a ball in his life and it
 shows.


 On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:45 PM Bill Prince 
 wrote:

> My money is on Redtails.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 7/20/2020 5:48 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Dr. Fauci to throw ceremonial first pitch on opening day for
> Washington Nationals.
>
>
>
> And in other sports news, what will be the new name for the Washington
> football team?  Apparently the smart money is on Washington Warriors,
> although personally I liked the Internet’s suggestion of Washington Red
> Pandas.
>
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>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Forrest
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT - political

[Chuck Macenski]

The Purge. I saw it on Rick and Morty!

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:21 PM Robert  wrote:

> One night a year?  I think there are movies about that.
>
> On 7/20/20 6:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> What would be the reasonable compromise between one caveman's right to
> kill and other's not to be killed?
>
> Perhaps "kill whoever you want on Sunday, otherwise no killing"
>
>
> On 7/20/2020 7:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> Since this doesn't really reply to anyone's specific points, I figured I'd
> just post this separately in the thread.
>
> I've recently realized that pretty much all of the conflicts we see are
> where two sides 'rights' come in conflict with each other.
>
> Back before there were rules, I'm sure there was one group that thought
> killing other humans was just fine and it was their right.  Another group
> just wanted to live their lives without being worried about being killed by
> other humans, and it was their right to do so.   When those groups came in
> conflict their 'rights' didn't match so a rule had to be made - in this
> case, 'the right to live is more important than the right to kill others'.
>  So we now have laws against murdering others.
>
> What I think people miss is that 'rights' are really nothing but a
> construction of societal norms and laws built up over years.   You have the
> right to not be killed (life).   But it could have just as easily been "you
> have a right to kill anything you want, including other humans".   Of
> course, I have a feeling that a society with that as a right might not have
> a long lifecycle...
>
> As time has progressed, more and more things have moved into the realm of
> 'rights'.   Right to free speech, right to peacefully assemble, and so on.
>
>
> In our current situation, there seem to be several 'rights' being fought
> over right now.   Whether my desire to not wear a mask is more important
> than the desire of society to reduce the transmission of a virus.   Whether
> the color of your skin should determine if you are more or less likely to
> be shot or abused by a police officer in some areas.And on and on and
> on.
>
> If you look at the civil rights movement, a lot of the protests (peaceful
> or violent) came about where 'rights' were in conflict.   For example,
> the rights of black people to be non-segregated vs the rights of the white
> people to not want black people to share their facilities/businesses.   At
> some point, there is going to be conflict and disagreement.   In an ideal
> society, one would hope that you could come to an agreement that both sides
> would at least be equally unhappy about without resorting to protests and
> civil disobedience.   But when you're the party who's perceived rights are
> being trampled on, it's kinda hard to get the people who are doing the
> trampling to listen, since you'd end up trampling on their rights if things
> changed.   In this circumstance, often some sort of protest or refusal to
> go along with the societal norms is unfortunately needed to bring the topic
> up to the light.  Thus you saw the lunch counter sit-ins and the freedom
> riders and similar.
>
> The ignition for a lot of the current events seems to be the George Floyd
> death.  This is obviously a conflict between the perceived rights the
> police officers believed they had, and the right of a black man to not be
> killed at the hands of those officers.  And obviously, this has been
> bubbling under the surface for some time.   There are a lot of these types
> of conflicts going on right now... one doesn't have to look very far to
> find some.
>
> I think to bring this back to another point of this discussion made by
> others, it seems like a lot of this country has lost the ability to stop
> and listen to both sides to understand what 'right' it is that the other
> side thinks is more important than your right you're not happy with being
> curtailed.And to come to some sort of reasonable agreement.
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Tx/Rx

[Chuck Macenski]

Isn't history fun. As found on the Internet:

DTE vs. DCE

This is one of the most misunderstood areas of RS-232. DTE stands for Data
Terminal Equipment, and DCE stands for Data Communications Equipment. DTE
is typically either a dumb terminal or the serial port on a
computer/workstation. DCE is typically a modem, DSU/CSU, or other piece of
data communications equipment, hence the names. This is all most people
really need to know about these terms. Where it gets confusing is when you
start to talk about signal definitions and direction.

For example, it's easy for someone to understand that when you transmit
data, you send it out. However, when you talk in terms of DCE, it becomes
an input signal. This is because the specification was written from the
perspective of the DTE end of the link. Another example is the Receive Data
signal is an input to DTE, but an output from DCE. Therefore, a straight
through "one to one" cable is all that is necessary between a modem and a
standard DTE serial port. However, if you want to connect two DTE ports
together, you have to simulate the existence of the pair of DCE devices,
typically modems that would normally be between the two DTE devices. This
is where the null-modem device or cable comes in.

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 12:48 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Sometimes when a port is labeled "Tx" they mean "this port transmits".
>
> Sometimes when a port is labeled "Tx" they mean "connect the transmit
> from your other device here".
>
> So sometimes you have equipment wanting cabling from Tx to Tx, and other
> times you want Tx to Rx.  Is there some standard or rule of thumb for
> when it's done one way or the other?  Or is it just a toss up?
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Airfiber11 Coax Cable Kit

[Chuck Macenski]

I don't know the answer, but I suggest an email to supp...@ui.com might be
in order.

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 3:50 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I know some UBNT People see these list posts, and I don't see them in
> the UBNT Store anymore.
>
> AF11-CA
>
> Was the mount bracket for an AF11 (the dish side) and 2 Coax Cables.  I
> need to order some more.  Actually, I really only care about the
> mounting bracket.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Do I dare jinx it?

[Chuck Macenski]

To calculate the infection rate of a specific population, you would need a
statistically significant randomized sample of the target population. Given
the testing regimen where people either self-select, take multiple tests,
or are symptomatic, I am not really sure what conclusions you can draw.

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 4:28 PM Mike Black  wrote:

> 3.2M population with 5% tested = 16 tested.  6432 cases out of 16
> tested = 4% infection rate?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 11:49 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Do I dare jinx it?
>
>
>
> Utah
>
> 3.2M population
>
> 5% of the population tested (anyone can get tested on demand with very
> little waiting)
>
> 6432 cases so far.  So that is .2% infection rate.
>
> 73 deaths so far.  1.1% death rate.
>
>
>
> 73/3.2M = .23 or .0022%  22 per million
>
>
>
> According to one source, your odds of being struck by lightning in your
> lifetime is .31 or .0031%
>
> So, if any of this is correct, I am slightly more likely to be struck by
> lightning than to die from this in Utah?
>
> Did I make a math error?
>
>
>
> *From:* James Howard
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:34 AM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Do I dare jinx it?
>
>
>
> Plus the fact that the pool of uninfected people gets smaller every day
> (even if by a small amount).
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:27 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Do I dare jinx it?
>
>
>
> The problem with terms like exponential growth, is that theyre still used
> though they never came to fruition
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:15 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Your 14-18 days is optimistic IMHO, more likely 1-2 months.
>
>
>
> Get infected.  Become contagious.  Infect others.  Show symptoms.  Take a
> turn for the worse.  Go into the hospital.  Transferred to ICU.  Put on
> ventilator.  Linger for a month or more and probably don’t recover.  Die.
> That’s more than 14-18 days.
>
>
>
> So as you turn the dial, the gauge doesn’t tell you if you’re a hero or a
> bum for quite a while.  And if you’ve caused an oops, now you’ve got to
> deal with the exponential growth problem again.  Lag between cause and
> effect, plus exponential growth if you screw up, means be careful and go
> slow with the dial.
>
>
>
> Remember Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer’s Apprentice in Fantasia?  It seemed
> to be going so good at first.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 9:29 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Do I dare jinx it?
>
>
>
> Well the local minima seems to be taking nice orderly steps down each week
> except for a couple weeks back where it stayed about the same.
>
> But the trends do not seem to be going up.  So I will take that as a phase
> 1 win.  Hopefully we are on the road to eradication.  If the local minima
> steps continue on the same trend, it looks like they will hit the bottom in
> a month one month to go...   I think I have said that several times
> over the past few months...
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2020 8:14 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Do I dare jinx it?
>
>
>
> I would love if they still did the 7-day moving average. If you look at
> the logarithmic curve of total deaths, the curve is actually flattening.
> However, the linear curve is still rising.
>
> Since there is about a 2 to 2-1/2 hysteresis to the action/effect, we will
> know more sometime between May 24 and May 30. Much of the country is
> "opening up" around May 10, so if that negatively impacts the death rate,
> we won't really know about it for 14-18 days.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 5/13/2020 7:06 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> [image: image]
>
>
>
> --
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>
> Login 
>
> To: ja...@litewire.net
> 
>
> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
>
> *You received this message because the domain afmug.com 
> is on your allow list.*
>
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT I need a smuggler

[Chuck Macenski]

https://web.archive.org/web/20080227224025/http://www.incb.org/pdf/e/list/red.pdf

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 4:50 PM  wrote:

> It appears not all of Utah either.  Just some counties.  I think it has to
> do perhaps with making meth or huffing.
>
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 12, 2020 3:46 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* OT I need a smuggler
>
> For some reason, no supplier will ship MEK solvent to me anymore.  They
> say not to Utah...
> That is my #1 adhesive for ABS plastic parts.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Chuck Macenski]

oops :)

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 4:57 PM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

> Yeah we get those ourselves. Chuck was asking where the $1500 all-in kit
> was. The $1500 link I posted is only one side of the link, from what I read
> plus one would need another duplexer for each side.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 9, 2020, at 15:27, Chuck Macenski  wrote:
>
> 
> Cassidy: No, you can buy the stand-alone radio (unless I am missing
> something)
> https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 4:13 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Somebody’s got to pay the salaries of the people who unbox the kits,
>> break them up into individual radios, and throw the antennas in the
>> dumpster.  Ordinarily you would pay an eBay seller to do this.  Maybe it’s
>> like the “chicken tax” and Ford pulling the back seats out of new Transit
>> Connect vans.
>>
>>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-strange-case-of-fords-attempt-to-avoid-thechicken-tax/2018/07/06/643624fa-796a-11e8-8df3-007495a78738_story.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:58 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>>
>>
>>
>> $999 for a single radio, where a kit is $1500 for two radios and all the
>> trimmings?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Chuck Macenski
>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:44 PM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>>
>>
>>
>> In stock:
>>
>> https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:10 PM Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Well, right, that's true, and another thing that you need to consider is
>> that something like an Aviat will run at higher TX power, and probably has
>> better receive sensitivity, meaning you might be able to use smaller dishes
>> for similar performance in some circumstances.
>>
>>
>>
>> Using 2 foots is doable on 7 miles around here (the ubnt dishes are
>> actually something like 32", but the gain is more in line with a decent
>> 2')... but it all depends on what your requirements are. It will lose some
>> capacity in heavy storms, but I wouldn't expect that to be a major problem
>> in Utah. Even putting a 3' dish on some structures we're installing on is
>> questionable (whether for wind load reasons, appearance or even just lack
>> of space), so 4' or 6' has pretty much been out of the question on the
>> links I've done. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>> I didn't mean to imply it would be the same price, but it's a different
>> value that needs to be considered.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you need larger or higher quality dishes, they very well could
>> represent more cost than the electronics in either scenario. Ever price out
>> 4' or 6' high performance dishes?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It's not just cat A vs. cat b, but within cat A there are still huge
>> differences in what you may need to use in your environment.
>>
>>
>>
>> That said, in our area, I can't imagine using less than a 3' dish for a 7
>> mile link in 11 GHz. I'd be happier with a 4'.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:18:56 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>>
>> Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at
>> some poin

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Chuck Macenski]

Cassidy: No, you can buy the stand-alone radio (unless I am missing
something)
https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 4:13 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Somebody’s got to pay the salaries of the people who unbox the kits, break
> them up into individual radios, and throw the antennas in the dumpster.
> Ordinarily you would pay an eBay seller to do this.  Maybe it’s like the
> “chicken tax” and Ford pulling the back seats out of new Transit Connect
> vans.
>
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-strange-case-of-fords-attempt-to-avoid-thechicken-tax/2018/07/06/643624fa-796a-11e8-8df3-007495a78738_story.html
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:58 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>
>
>
> $999 for a single radio, where a kit is $1500 for two radios and all the
> trimmings?
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck Macenski
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:44 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>
>
>
> In stock:
>
> https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:10 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
> Well, right, that's true, and another thing that you need to consider is
> that something like an Aviat will run at higher TX power, and probably has
> better receive sensitivity, meaning you might be able to use smaller dishes
> for similar performance in some circumstances.
>
>
>
> Using 2 foots is doable on 7 miles around here (the ubnt dishes are
> actually something like 32", but the gain is more in line with a decent
> 2')... but it all depends on what your requirements are. It will lose some
> capacity in heavy storms, but I wouldn't expect that to be a major problem
> in Utah. Even putting a 3' dish on some structures we're installing on is
> questionable (whether for wind load reasons, appearance or even just lack
> of space), so 4' or 6' has pretty much been out of the question on the
> links I've done. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> I didn't mean to imply it would be the same price, but it's a different
> value that needs to be considered.
>
>
>
> If you need larger or higher quality dishes, they very well could
> represent more cost than the electronics in either scenario. Ever price out
> 4' or 6' high performance dishes?
>
>
>
>
>
> It's not just cat A vs. cat b, but within cat A there are still huge
> differences in what you may need to use in your environment.
>
>
>
> That said, in our area, I can't imagine using less than a 3' dish for a 7
> mile link in 11 GHz. I'd be happier with a 4'.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:18:56 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>
> Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at
> some point...
>
>
>
> I think an Aviat single transceiver link came out to about $6k for the
> hardware, with 2' dishes when I priced it, so that's nearly double the
> price of the AF11. If we say $1k of that is in the dishes (I don't remember
> exactly how the pricing broke down, but I think the dishes were actually
> quite a bit less than that), that's still an almost $2k difference (with
> throwing the ubiquiti dishes away)... presumably the better dishes will be
> about the same price for either radio, so the only other difference is
> going to be a few hundred for adapters to connect the AF11 to a real dish.
>
>
>
> It didn't used to be too big of a difference in price to use Jirous dishes
> with the AF11, because even though you had to buy an adapter (which I think
> was like $140), the dishes were cheaper, but I 

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Chuck Macenski]

I just do the technical stuff.

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 3:59 PM  wrote:

> $999 for a single radio, where a kit is $1500 for two radios and all the
> trimmings?
>
> *From:* Chuck Macenski
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:44 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>
> In stock:
> https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11
>
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:10 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> Well, right, that's true, and another thing that you need to consider is
>> that something like an Aviat will run at higher TX power, and probably has
>> better receive sensitivity, meaning you might be able to use smaller dishes
>> for similar performance in some circumstances.
>>
>> Using 2 foots is doable on 7 miles around here (the ubnt dishes are
>> actually something like 32", but the gain is more in line with a decent
>> 2')... but it all depends on what your requirements are. It will lose some
>> capacity in heavy storms, but I wouldn't expect that to be a major problem
>> in Utah. Even putting a 3' dish on some structures we're installing on is
>> questionable (whether for wind load reasons, appearance or even just lack
>> of space), so 4' or 6' has pretty much been out of the question on the
>> links I've done. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't mean to imply it would be the same price, but it's a different
>>> value that needs to be considered.
>>>
>>> If you need larger or higher quality dishes, they very well could
>>> represent more cost than the electronics in either scenario. Ever price out
>>> 4' or 6' high performance dishes?
>>>
>>>
>>> It's not just cat A vs. cat b, but within cat A there are still huge
>>> differences in what you may need to use in your environment.
>>>
>>> That said, in our area, I can't imagine using less than a 3' dish for a
>>> 7 mile link in 11 GHz. I'd be happier with a 4'.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:18:56 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>>>
>>> Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at
>>> some point...
>>>
>>> I think an Aviat single transceiver link came out to about $6k for the
>>> hardware, with 2' dishes when I priced it, so that's nearly double the
>>> price of the AF11. If we say $1k of that is in the dishes (I don't remember
>>> exactly how the pricing broke down, but I think the dishes were actually
>>> quite a bit less than that), that's still an almost $2k difference (with
>>> throwing the ubiquiti dishes away)... presumably the better dishes will be
>>> about the same price for either radio, so the only other difference is
>>> going to be a few hundred for adapters to connect the AF11 to a real dish.
>>>
>>> It didn't used to be too big of a difference in price to use Jirous
>>> dishes with the AF11, because even though you had to buy an adapter (which
>>> I think was like $140), the dishes were cheaper, but I don't think that's
>>> the case anymore (and it obvious isn't if you can only get the kit).
>>>
>>> And of course, if you only need ~350Mbps, you could just do single pol
>>> with the AF11, and there'd be no need to go with better radios... and it
>>> would take ~$350 off the price, since you don't need the extra duplexers.
>>>
>>> But the only reason I'd see you needing better dishes on a 7 mile link
&

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Chuck Macenski]

In stock:
https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11


On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:10 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Well, right, that's true, and another thing that you need to consider is
> that something like an Aviat will run at higher TX power, and probably has
> better receive sensitivity, meaning you might be able to use smaller dishes
> for similar performance in some circumstances.
>
> Using 2 foots is doable on 7 miles around here (the ubnt dishes are
> actually something like 32", but the gain is more in line with a decent
> 2')... but it all depends on what your requirements are. It will lose some
> capacity in heavy storms, but I wouldn't expect that to be a major problem
> in Utah. Even putting a 3' dish on some structures we're installing on is
> questionable (whether for wind load reasons, appearance or even just lack
> of space), so 4' or 6' has pretty much been out of the question on the
> links I've done. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get.
>
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I didn't mean to imply it would be the same price, but it's a different
>> value that needs to be considered.
>>
>> If you need larger or higher quality dishes, they very well could
>> represent more cost than the electronics in either scenario. Ever price out
>> 4' or 6' high performance dishes?
>>
>>
>> It's not just cat A vs. cat b, but within cat A there are still huge
>> differences in what you may need to use in your environment.
>>
>> That said, in our area, I can't imagine using less than a 3' dish for a 7
>> mile link in 11 GHz. I'd be happier with a 4'.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:18:56 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>>
>> Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at
>> some point...
>>
>> I think an Aviat single transceiver link came out to about $6k for the
>> hardware, with 2' dishes when I priced it, so that's nearly double the
>> price of the AF11. If we say $1k of that is in the dishes (I don't remember
>> exactly how the pricing broke down, but I think the dishes were actually
>> quite a bit less than that), that's still an almost $2k difference (with
>> throwing the ubiquiti dishes away)... presumably the better dishes will be
>> about the same price for either radio, so the only other difference is
>> going to be a few hundred for adapters to connect the AF11 to a real dish.
>>
>> It didn't used to be too big of a difference in price to use Jirous
>> dishes with the AF11, because even though you had to buy an adapter (which
>> I think was like $140), the dishes were cheaper, but I don't think that's
>> the case anymore (and it obvious isn't if you can only get the kit).
>>
>> And of course, if you only need ~350Mbps, you could just do single pol
>> with the AF11, and there'd be no need to go with better radios... and it
>> would take ~$350 off the price, since you don't need the extra duplexers.
>>
>> But the only reason I'd see you needing better dishes on a 7 mile link is
>> if congestion makes a cat A dish necessary.
>>
>> Shipping cost also starts to add up when you're dealing with bigger
>> dishes... Chuck could probably pick up the AF11 kits locally from
>> Streakwave, but that may not be the case for other stuff.
>>
>> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:44 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> How much more is it, though, for better radios if you need the better
>>> dishes, yet have to buy the Ubiquiti dishes anyway?
>>>
>>> AF11 kit with dishes (that you'll just throw away)
>>> N to waveguide adapters
>>> Good dish
>>>
>>> vs.
>>>
>>> Better radio
>>> Good dish
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Airfiber 11 radios

[Chuck Macenski]

I don't which distributors have these on order from us (Ubiquiti), but we
have an air shipment of stand-alone radios coming into the US next week.

Chuck

On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 2:26 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Really, if you're doing a link longer than 7-8 miles, you should be
> looking at different radios. You're going to have a much better link with
> radios with better tx power.
>
> But that still leaves the problem that I just don't like their dishes...
> and there are good reasons to use a different brand of dish instead.
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 8:27 AM Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
> wrote:
>
>> Agreed.  I’ve sold a bunch of them and they’ve been solid if
>> unspectacular...but the price was right for certain applications.
>>
>> I’m REALLY concerned about their new kit program.  They said they would
>> sell the bare radios again, but that hasn’t happened yet.
>>
>> If you have a link (depending on where you are) longer than 7-8 miles,
>> you need bigger/better dishes than their 2.5’ dish.  Right now, you have to
>> buy the kit and the other dishes and hope you have a use for the 2.5’
>> dishes down the road.  Horribly wasteful.  Radiowave and KP built dishes
>> specifically for the AF-11.  They are really screwed right now.
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> CTIconnect
>> 312-205-2519 Office
>> 574-220-7826 Cell
>> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>>
>> On Apr 28, 2020, at 5:16 AM, Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> While the 11 has issues and other vendors have far superior products -
>> something was wrong if you faded in the rain at 5 miles.
>>
>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 11:51 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
>> wrote:
>>
>> This is why I'm moving away from UBNT for 11ghz backhauls. They jacked
>> the price up on the stand alone units. Stock has been non-existent since
>> November/December which was the last time I was able to order stand alone
>> AF11 radios. Now a rumor they will never sell them again without their
>> crappy dish? Which BTW has steel bolts on that you know will turn to rust
>> in a couple years which really pisses me off. I know that other brands cost
>> about 2x-2.5x like Aviat but for the same licensed 80mhz channel you can
>> get 1.4gbps full duplex and I have never seen a AF11 radio actually push
>> over 600 meg. Had a 5 mile and 6 mile AF11 link fade in the rain just as
>> bad as a AF24 would on a 3-4 mile shot. I'm going all Aviat from here on
>> out, 11, 18, 80ghz. Their pricing is extremely competitive. Ken is awesome,
>> always emails me back within 30 minutes with any questions I have. Hell you
>> can buy a 80ghz link that is keyed up for 10gbps full duplex for $5200 out
>> the door. Siklu's promo for $4200 link will only do 2gbps which you can't
>> even get from Baltic because they are sold out.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 5:14 PM Chuck Macenski 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, ignore that. I will forward this issue internally so that the
>>> AF11 is added. So many changes, so little time...
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 4:10 PM Chuck Macenski 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.ui.com/distributors/stock-locator/
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 3:33 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From Streakwave?  They're the one's that told me this morning they
>>>>> were never going to get them.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/27/2020 3:30 PM, Cassidy B. Larson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Streakwave was telling me that originally too, but it was during the
>>>>> change of the model number of the standalone radio.  Now that the model
>>>>> number for the stand alone radio is changed, price is a bit higher, but
>>>>> they are once again available.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 14:26, Nate Burke 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  One distributor I talked to said they were being told by UBNT that
>>>>> their Single Radio order would never be fulfilled
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/27/2020 3:20 PM, Chuck Macenski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> That rumor is incorrect. The AF11 radio is available as a stand-alone
>>>>> SKU.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 3:11 PM Sean Hesket

Re: [AFMUG] Airfiber 11 radios

[Chuck Macenski]

Sorry, ignore that. I will forward this issue internally so that the AF11
is added. So many changes, so little time...

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 4:10 PM Chuck Macenski  wrote:

> https://www.ui.com/distributors/stock-locator/
>
> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 3:33 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> From Streakwave?  They're the one's that told me this morning they were
>> never going to get them.
>>
>> On 4/27/2020 3:30 PM, Cassidy B. Larson wrote:
>>
>> Streakwave was telling me that originally too, but it was during the
>> change of the model number of the standalone radio.  Now that the model
>> number for the stand alone radio is changed, price is a bit higher, but
>> they are once again available.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 14:26, Nate Burke 
>>  wrote:
>>
>>  One distributor I talked to said they were being told by UBNT that
>> their Single Radio order would never be fulfilled
>>
>> On 4/27/2020 3:20 PM, Chuck Macenski wrote:
>>
>> That rumor is incorrect. The AF11 radio is available as a stand-alone
>> SKU.
>>
>> https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 3:11 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> Why in the world would you buy crappy radios from a crappy company that
>>> likes to frivolously sue its customers and distributors?  They also seem to
>>> like to discontinue products at the drop of a hat.
>>>
>>> Not gonna build my business model around a crappy company like that.
>>>
>>> 2 cents
>>>
>>> -Sean
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 1:05 PM Nate Burke < 
>>> n...@blastcomm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've heard a rumor that the only way to buy an AF11 radio now is in a
>>>> kit with Radio+Single Diplexer+Dish.  Single radios cannot be
>>>> purchased.  How can you keep spares of equipment if that's the case?
>>>>
>>>> The price has gone up too.  We were getting bare radios for $585 last
>>>> year.  Now if you break the cost out of the Dishes and Diplexers from
>>>> the Kit, it's $680 for just the radio.  And places that have bare
>>>> radios
>>>> listed in their online stores (but have no stock) have a single radio
>>>> in
>>>> the $900 range.
>>>>
>>>> Is UBNT Just trying to kill the 3rd party Antenna market?  Or were they
>>>> having problems interfacing to other dishes  because of their unique N
>>>> connector method?  The part that really annoys me is that I can't just
>>>> have spare radios sitting on the shelf.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Airfiber 11 radios

[Chuck Macenski]

https://www.ui.com/distributors/stock-locator/

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 3:33 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> From Streakwave?  They're the one's that told me this morning they were
> never going to get them.
>
> On 4/27/2020 3:30 PM, Cassidy B. Larson wrote:
>
> Streakwave was telling me that originally too, but it was during the
> change of the model number of the standalone radio.  Now that the model
> number for the stand alone radio is changed, price is a bit higher, but
> they are once again available.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 27, 2020, at 14:26, Nate Burke 
>  wrote:
>
>  One distributor I talked to said they were being told by UBNT that their
> Single Radio order would never be fulfilled
>
> On 4/27/2020 3:20 PM, Chuck Macenski wrote:
>
> That rumor is incorrect. The AF11 radio is available as a stand-alone
> SKU.
>
> https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11
>
> Chuck
>
> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 3:11 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> Why in the world would you buy crappy radios from a crappy company that
>> likes to frivolously sue its customers and distributors?  They also seem to
>> like to discontinue products at the drop of a hat.
>>
>> Not gonna build my business model around a crappy company like that.
>>
>> 2 cents
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 1:05 PM Nate Burke < 
>> n...@blastcomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I've heard a rumor that the only way to buy an AF11 radio now is in a
>>> kit with Radio+Single Diplexer+Dish.  Single radios cannot be
>>> purchased.  How can you keep spares of equipment if that's the case?
>>>
>>> The price has gone up too.  We were getting bare radios for $585 last
>>> year.  Now if you break the cost out of the Dishes and Diplexers from
>>> the Kit, it's $680 for just the radio.  And places that have bare radios
>>> listed in their online stores (but have no stock) have a single radio in
>>> the $900 range.
>>>
>>> Is UBNT Just trying to kill the 3rd party Antenna market?  Or were they
>>> having problems interfacing to other dishes  because of their unique N
>>> connector method?  The part that really annoys me is that I can't just
>>> have spare radios sitting on the shelf.
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Airfiber 11 radios

[Chuck Macenski]

That rumor is incorrect. The AF11 radio is available as a stand-alone SKU.

https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11

Chuck

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 3:11 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Why in the world would you buy crappy radios from a crappy company that
> likes to frivolously sue its customers and distributors?  They also seem to
> like to discontinue products at the drop of a hat.
>
> Not gonna build my business model around a crappy company like that.
>
> 2 cents
>
> -Sean
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 1:05 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> I've heard a rumor that the only way to buy an AF11 radio now is in a
>> kit with Radio+Single Diplexer+Dish.  Single radios cannot be
>> purchased.  How can you keep spares of equipment if that's the case?
>>
>> The price has gone up too.  We were getting bare radios for $585 last
>> year.  Now if you break the cost out of the Dishes and Diplexers from
>> the Kit, it's $680 for just the radio.  And places that have bare radios
>> listed in their online stores (but have no stock) have a single radio in
>> the $900 range.
>>
>> Is UBNT Just trying to kill the 3rd party Antenna market?  Or were they
>> having problems interfacing to other dishes  because of their unique N
>> connector method?  The part that really annoys me is that I can't just
>> have spare radios sitting on the shelf.
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Dang, not normal

[Chuck Macenski]

eemed essential last week, but that's why they're there.
> Clearly define everything, on the state and county websites. Accurate
> information is critical. That and tracing.
>
> Define regional thresholds for stages of opening. If a region declines,
> shut it down. If a region does well, progress the stages. Exactly as the
> feds recommend.
>
> Define and justify every single essential and non essential industry. With
> a mandatory state clarification within 24 hours of a designation request.
> Justify being key. And publicly accessible designations. This would be
> fluid and ongoing.
>
> Leisure activities need designations. Nuclear family needs clarification.
> As it reads, I cant take my family fishing in illinois because the
> designated limit is 2. This will get police in situations with bad outcomes
> because nobody bothered to clarify.
>
> If a region's medical resources are verifiably and documented to be taxed
> to a predefined and clearly defined level, then ease back on the stages,
> all the way to lockdown if need be. But media reports and public opinion
> arent the metrics. The staffing levels and documented patient loads define
> that.
>
>
> I can continue
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 9:01 PM Chuck Macenski  wrote:
>
>> Would you please articulate specifically "what is right" in this
>> situation? I am asking for your non-political opinion of the most
>> constructive way forward.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 8:24 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I sit back and watch as people contradict their own statements. "Its
>>> going to be here like this for years" "tests are growing, as is the number"
>>> "it's been here longer than we think" "it hasn't peaked because muh
>>> testing" "it's going to be worse in fall" "mitigation has had a major
>>> impact"
>>> The best is regarding the medication mien fuehrer  liked. "Its only
>>> anecdotal" "a tiny group had a negative outcome, thisnis the gold standard
>>> and this drug must be banned"
>>>
>>> I live in a state where our governor is in a pissing contest with the
>>> White House, but doing pretty much what the White House recommends, with
>>> the exception of looking at things by region. We only have two regions,
>>> chicago, and people who voted for the current president at 1600. So the
>>> whole of downstate will be punished for not voting the right way. When
>>> asked about the data, for the "science" behind this, we were told the state
>>> doesnt own the data, so we cant see it.
>>>
>>> I'm part of a foster parent group. One of the fosters is utterly
>>> destroyed right now. Her prior ward, that she stayed in contact with died 3
>>> days ago at 15. He had returned home, but went back into the system during
>>> this (our state, in its infinite wisdom has effectively shut down the
>>> foster support system, non essential and all) he couldn't come back to her
>>> because she is at capacity. He had cancer and was in a drug trial. He had
>>> been thriving. The governors orders didnt allow for him to get access to
>>> the trial resources, so he lost his trial spot, as is the nature of trials.
>>> There were no resources available to get him into a linear treatment. 3
>>> days ago he succumbed to the complication. While anecdotal, this is exactly
>>> what the cure being worse than the disease looks like. Granted, the speed
>>> at which he declined from thriving to dead indicates underlying issues, the
>>> chicago emperors orders made certain there were no resources. Right now,
>>> thanks to the emperors orders, there are approximately zero resources
>>> available to the foster families. Anticipate a whole lot of negative
>>> outcomes.
>>>
>>> Point is, everybody is more concerned about proving how wrong their
>>> political enemy is, that nobody is even actually looking for what is right.
>>>
>>> Thankfully mother nature doesnt care and this will, like all ailments of
>>> proximity, diminish in the next week or so.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:48 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just listened (in part) to a discussion about COVID-19 as it regards
>>>> China/US relations. It is a discussion between Dubner, Michèle Flournoy (
>>>> former undersecretary of defense and co-founder of strategic-advisory firm
>>>> WestExec.), and Michael Auslin (historian at Stanford University’s Hoover
>>&g

Re: [AFMUG] OT Dang, not normal

[Chuck Macenski]

Would you please articulate specifically "what is right" in this situation?
I am asking for your non-political opinion of the most constructive way
forward.

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 8:24 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I sit back and watch as people contradict their own statements. "Its going
> to be here like this for years" "tests are growing, as is the number" "it's
> been here longer than we think" "it hasn't peaked because muh testing"
> "it's going to be worse in fall" "mitigation has had a major impact"
> The best is regarding the medication mien fuehrer  liked. "Its only
> anecdotal" "a tiny group had a negative outcome, thisnis the gold standard
> and this drug must be banned"
>
> I live in a state where our governor is in a pissing contest with the
> White House, but doing pretty much what the White House recommends, with
> the exception of looking at things by region. We only have two regions,
> chicago, and people who voted for the current president at 1600. So the
> whole of downstate will be punished for not voting the right way. When
> asked about the data, for the "science" behind this, we were told the state
> doesnt own the data, so we cant see it.
>
> I'm part of a foster parent group. One of the fosters is utterly destroyed
> right now. Her prior ward, that she stayed in contact with died 3 days ago
> at 15. He had returned home, but went back into the system during this (our
> state, in its infinite wisdom has effectively shut down the foster support
> system, non essential and all) he couldn't come back to her because she is
> at capacity. He had cancer and was in a drug trial. He had been thriving.
> The governors orders didnt allow for him to get access to the trial
> resources, so he lost his trial spot, as is the nature of trials. There
> were no resources available to get him into a linear treatment. 3 days ago
> he succumbed to the complication. While anecdotal, this is exactly what the
> cure being worse than the disease looks like. Granted, the speed at which
> he declined from thriving to dead indicates underlying issues, the chicago
> emperors orders made certain there were no resources. Right now, thanks to
> the emperors orders, there are approximately zero resources available to
> the foster families. Anticipate a whole lot of negative outcomes.
>
> Point is, everybody is more concerned about proving how wrong their
> political enemy is, that nobody is even actually looking for what is right.
>
> Thankfully mother nature doesnt care and this will, like all ailments of
> proximity, diminish in the next week or so.
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:48 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Just listened (in part) to a discussion about COVID-19 as it regards
>> China/US relations. It is a discussion between Dubner, Michèle Flournoy (
>> former undersecretary of defense and co-founder of strategic-advisory firm
>> WestExec.), and Michael Auslin (historian at Stanford University’s Hoover
>> Institution).
>>
>> Within the discussion Auslin asserts that the death toll within Wuhan
>> alone was between 45 and 47 thousand; at least 10X what they have reported
>> through official channels. He gets his data through croudsourcing
>> crematoria activity and the number of people picking up urns of deceased
>> family members.
>>
>> If you don't have time to listen to this, it is at least worth a read of
>> the transcript.
>>
>> https://freakonomics.com/podcast/covid-19-china/
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 4/25/2020 3:11 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>
>> This virus doesn't care if you are a Republican, a Democrat, an
>> Independent, agnostic, religious or an atheist...if it gets you it might
>> kill you...
>> Stay smart, listen to doctors and scientistsnot ineptus maximus
>> politicians.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 12:45 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> As we test more, we are undoubtedly going to find more cases that were
>>> previously going undetected (asymptomatic infection). This is a long way
>>> from over. The other thing we have not come to grips with is the uneven
>>> spread/mitigation.
>>>
>>> There was an interesting graphic for the state of California showing the
>>> state as a whole versus just the Bay Area (Mercury News this morning). The
>>> 7 counties around the bay instituted shelter in place very early, and it's
>>> beginning to show in the statistics. The Bay Area accounts for almost 18%
>>> of the entire state population (7 of the 40 million).
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/25/2020 8:45 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>
>>> [image: image]
>>>
>>> Might be Chebyshev BPF though... hopefully...Bessell.
>>> Hopefully not high pass...
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Need AirFiber5x

[Chuck Macenski]

The antenna structure allows for a low-cost full duplex system. If you
don't need the sub-ms latency and full-duplex capacity, it is not the radio
for you.

That said, AF5/AF5U is a current product; the AF5X was EOLed in favor of
the AF5XHD.

Jamie: Contact me offlist.

Chuck

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 5:34 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Airfiber5 - garbage gain.
>
> I was taking about AF5x. Maybe I missed the X?
>
> On Apr 21, 2020, at 6:31 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> I told guy who needs them to get some Cambium higher end radios...
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 4:07 PM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> Ubiquiti really needs to realize they screwed the pooch by stopping
>> production on that product.
>>
>> On Apr 21, 2020, at 5:22 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>
>> 
>> Here’s what we’ve got.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 2:59 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ok.  Thanks
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 2:35 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Jamie,

 I think we have a decommissioned pair in our storage.  I’ll go look
 later today.

 -Sean


 On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 2:31 PM Jaime Solorza <
 losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> We need an older model AirFiber5x...
> Any one know where we can get one? Thanks, El Dude
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
 --
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 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] 5.9 extension?

[Chuck Macenski]

+1 to the Alexander Haig comment

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 12:23 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Not good when you proudly compare yourself to Captain Bligh.  At least he
> didn’t choose Captain Queeg.  I was thinking it was his Alexander Haig
> moment, but Haig kind of got a raw deal, that was just a PR blunder and not
> a power grab IMHO.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 14, 2020 10:51 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 5.9 extension?
>
>
>
> Oh, lol, I thought you were serious. that was a disaster. I like this
> admin, but I wouldnt be surprised if they has stuck their fingers in this
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 8:41 AM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>
> No, it was a commentary on Potus and his news conference yesterday.
>
>
>
> Being serious now - if the federal government says we are still in an
> emergency near the STA’s expiration date I think we are in a good position
> to request an extension based on conditions being unchanged from the
> emergency that prompted the STA in the first place.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Apr 14, 2020, at 9:36 AM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> I didnt see these STAs come up in any of the POTUS press conferences.
> You're saying the oval office is involved in this?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 8:18 AM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>
> I guess it depends on what “The president of the United States call[ing]
> the shots” decides on when this is over.
>
>
>
> The bigger picture at play is this NPRM:
> https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-360940A1.pdf
>
>
>
> The FCC has an open proceeding to make the STA’s the permanent law of the
> land.   This is one of those ’never let a crisis go to waste’ moments where
> the FCC gets to make the facts on the ground match up with something they
> want to do anyway.
>
>
>
> So yes, I do see this as becoming permanent, and the more use we as an
> industry can show it being used responsibly the better.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Apr 14, 2020, at 8:48 AM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Are you anticipating an extension or grant of permanence?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 6:58 AM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>
> Some of our 450m’s have seen subtle improvements, others have been more
> dramatic.  Nice to have some breathing room to push AP’s from 20 to 30Mhz
> channels.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Apr 14, 2020, at 6:56 AM, Mike Meluskey  wrote:
>
>
>
> And they are beautiful!
> 8x8 MIMO for our 450m’s
>
> On 14 Apr 2020, at 6:25, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>
> The STA’s for the original applicants were granted with the original
> letter and could be used with notification to the other license holders in
> the state.  A condition of the grant was that you had to make your own
> application for the STA under the company name within 10 days.   Those
> applications, as best I can tell, are still working through the process
> with the FCC.
>
>
>
> Yes, they are in use.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2020, at 10:48 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Very useful but is anyone even operational on 5.9 today? It appears the
> STA's never got granted from what I read in some other threads on here. I
> was told the FCC backed out of issuing the STA's because of some resistance
> by some group.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 8:11 PM Dev  wrote:
>
> Talking to Congress folks/WISPA about pushing to see if we could get an
> extension on the 60 day 5.9 spectrum to something more like 6-12 months,
> there seems to be an interest in raising the issue to FCC commissioners.
> Both Senator/WISPA folks want to judge how much interest there would be
> from the community. No promises, but how useful would this be for you all?
> --
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>
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>
>
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>
>
>
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>
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Webinar tomorrow

[Chuck Macenski]

The irony...

On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 9:51 AM  wrote:

> It was first held at the Airport Hilton, it was called AnimalFarm and that
> suggestion came from Jaime.  It was later held at several other venues.
> It
> was only the latter days where it was held at the fairpark.
>
> Motorola expressly and specifically disavowed any connection with
> AnimalFarm
> but they did send people.  I tried to get Mot to sponsor a users group
> meeting during the Tucson channel partner meetings and Mot said legally
> there were too many problems.
>
> So, I took it upon myself to rent the conference room and invite everyone
> to
> come.  We were the pigs taking over the farm from the farmer.  Thus
> AnimalFarm.  And thus trademarked by WB Manufacturing as it was our trade
> show and our main means of marketing each year.
>
> But not the first time I have been knocked off by Mot and its
> descendants...
> At least WispAmerica asked permission...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Mangriotis via AF
> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2020 8:10 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Cc: Matt Mangriotis
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Webinar tomorrow
>
> Someone??? It's me, Chuck!
>
> We've called it Animal Farm since it was held at the Utah State
> Fairpark...
> you used to join us and speak about the history, etc. I miss that.
>
> In any case, we've virtualized it this year. As such, we'll record it and
> post it to our forum.
>
> If you'd like to attend, please visit our website to see what we're doing
> to
> virualize the WISPAmerica experience (and sign up to attend):
> https://www.cambiumnetworks.com/wispamerica2020/
>
> Thanks!
> Matt
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2020 8:49 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Webinar tomorrow
>
> Really, someone is using my AnimalFarm trademark without permission?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 17, 2020, at 2:32 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account)
> >  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > I just registered for the cambium "Animal Farm" webinar, however it's at
> 8
> > central which is 7am my time.
> >
> > Does anyone know if they record these for later playback?   I'm not
> > particularly thrilled about getting up that early, considering I've been
> > on the "go to bed at 4am" schedule recently.
> >
> > --
> > - Forrest
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> >
> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.comdata=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Ca0675d866427407b197d08d7ca7a1067%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C637200497932895210sdata=4Hgi24aCEX3tkp0wUwn9v8B%2F8o7TMubufYR%2FfiQPQM0%3Dreserved=0
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> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.comdata=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Ca0675d866427407b197d08d7ca7a1067%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C637200497932895210sdata=4Hgi24aCEX3tkp0wUwn9v8B%2F8o7TMubufYR%2FfiQPQM0%3Dreserved=0
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Europe travel ban, or also "trade and cargo"?

[Chuck Macenski]

I guess when we blame the virus on China is was just a matter of time
before they did the same thing. What goes around comes around.

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jay Weekley 
wrote:

> Beer. Lots of beer.  I can wipe my rear end with a t-shirt but if beer
> gets hard to find I'm getting scared.
>
> James Howard wrote:
> >
> >
> https://nypost.com/2020/03/12/chinese-official-blames-coronavirus-outbreak-on-us-military/
> >
> > It’s official.  The US is to blame for everything.
> >
> > I was in the local grocery store to get something for lunch today and
> > a couple of old women were pushing carts around full of toilet paper
> > and diet pepsi (about even split it looked).  As I walked past one of
> > them said to the other that they needed to go look for something else
> > (couldn’t hear what it was though) because “gotta stock up before it’s
> > hard to get”.   I wonder what you could possibly need besides tp and
> > pepsi?
> >
> > *From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 12, 2020 3:56 PM
> > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Europe travel ban, or also "trade and cargo"?
> >
> > If we could shot everyone infected, we would have it contained to...
> > btw, can we shoot the infected?... asking for a friend. For real
> > though, im stopping out to top off ammunition tonight. When people say
> > nobody needs 10,000 rounds of ammunition, I want to ask them how
> > theyre doing on toilet paper. I fear thats what they will come for,
> > they will kick at my door with their emaciated bony legs wanting to
> > get the TP and not my food. I am planning on taking the new infant
> > home on next thursday, the wife has to stay til friday or saturday for
> > post op care from the c-section but the baby is just required to stay
> > one day. These morons are already lining up at the hospital, convinced
> > they have coronavision cause their TV told them so. Bringing all their
> > vile diseases with them to one place. some super-bug is going to be
> > created in that hospital. dirty vile disgusting cesspools of death
> > that hospitals already are. Ill post some pics, for those of you still
> > alive thursday, of me and the baby, with our toilet paper and guns. We
> > are under state of emergency, i never checked to see if illinois has
> > the constitutional carry under state of emergency like some states do.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:51 PM  > > wrote:
> >
> > Maybe James Franco could pay him a visit and see how they are
> > doing it.
> >
> > *From:*Lewis Bergman
> >
> > *Sent:*Thursday, March 12, 2020 1:48 PM
> >
> > *To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >
> > *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Europe travel ban, or also "trade and cargo"?
> >
> > I have heard that, but having a police state where movement is
> > already curtailed and everybody is taught from birth to believe
> > the stubby leader is a super hero does have benefits. It is
> > impossible to compare a society like that to one of almost any
> > other type. Reminds me of World War Z with Brad Pitt. There was a
> > little social engineering speech in there that seems apropos.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:31 PM  > > wrote:
> >
> > He seems to have a special talent, (where is Al Frankin to
> > write a book when you need one...)
> >
> > Everyone seems to be forgetting that North Korea has knocked
> > it out of the ball park...
> >
> > *From:*Lewis Bergman
> >
> > *Sent:*Thursday, March 12, 2020 1:18 PM
> >
> > *To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >
> > *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Europe travel ban, or also "trade and
> > cargo"?
> >
> > It is hard for me to believe any speech by anyone rises to the
> > level of disaster. Having said that, if anyone is capable of
> > delivering such a speech, I am sure Trump is. I would hope
> > that a speech isn't all someone expects as a government
> > response in times like these.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 11:41 AM Jaime Solorza
> > mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > From a conservative source..
> >
> >
> https://www.commentarymagazine.com/noah-rothman/trump-coronavirus-speech-was-a-disaster/
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020, 8:30 PM Ken Hohhof  > > wrote:
> >
> > Did anyone listen to the POTUS address tonight? It is
> > being reported as a 30 day European travel ban.  But I
> > heard him say “these prohibitions will not only apply
> > to the tremendous amount of trade and cargo, but
> > various other things as we get approval. Anything
> > coming from Europe to the United States is what we are
> > discussing.”

Re: [AFMUG] OT youtube hell

[Chuck Macenski]

Thanks for that...now my weekend is shot.

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 9:09 PM Robert  wrote:

> Let me see if I can help you out...
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/user/errolprowse
>
> This one is down south from you, I think...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwdVOry0oNF9WIe_3uCfz9Q
>
>
> On 1/21/20 7:01 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Is there a 12 step program for this?
>
> 10x more addictive than porn.
>
> I love forgings
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Apple vs Android demographics

[Chuck Macenski]

Ditto

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 5:59 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> That's surprising, I wouldn't have guessed that IOS was more popular than
> Android in the US. I would've guessed it was closer to 60/40 the other way.
>
> On Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 3:43 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> OK. I had the worldwide ratio pretty close, but I had no clue about the
>> US. In the US it's pretty much 60:40 in favor of IOS. In the rest of the
>> world it's all over the map. India is 90:10 in favor of Android, while
>> Canada looks close to 50:50.
>>
>> Details here:   https://deviceatlas.com/blog/android-v-ios-market-share
>>
>> Still don't know about the demographics.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 12/14/2019 12:52 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone know the relative market share of iPhones/iPads vs Android
>> devices?  And what are the demographics behind who tends to have each type?
>>
>>
>>
>> My expectation was that Android probably outsells Apple by at least 2:1
>> and maybe 3:1.  Also that the demographics would favor more Apple devices
>> in cities and suburbs, and Android in small towns and rural areas.
>> Partially because of the stereotype of an Apple customer, partially because
>> of price, but also just the fact that there are no Apple stores in rural
>> areas.
>>
>>
>>
>> My area is mostly rural, yet when I see what devices have DHCP leases on
>> customer routers, most of the time there are all these iPhones and iPads.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m trying to figure out the demographics, but the only thing I’ve
>> noticed is that from the DHCP hostnames like Marys-Iphone and Susans-iPad,
>> a lot of them tend to be female.  Still, the whole household tends to have
>> the same brand of phone.  I assume one of the parents goes to the AT or
>> Verizon store and gets 5 phones and a family share plan and everybody gets
>> the same brand of phone.
>>
>>
>>
>> Does Apple really have bigger market share than Samsung and all the other
>> Android phone makers put together?  Or am I wrong and rural areas actually
>> tend to be Apple country?
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Thomas Freeburg

[Chuck Macenski]

Amongst many other accomplishments and countless patents, Tom was the guy
who assembled (and provided a Motorola home for) the original Canopy
engineering team. He is missed.

On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 4:36 PM Chuck Macenski  wrote:

> Amongst many other accomplishments and countless patents, Tom was the buy
> who assembled (and provided a Motorola home for) the original Canopy
> engineering team. He is missed.
>
> On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 7:20 AM Gino A. Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> RIP
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino*
>> *Villarini *Founder/President
>> @gvillarini
>> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
>> m:
>> [image: aeronet-logo] <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> [image: inc500]
>> <https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet> [image: fb-logo]
>> <https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/>  [image: insta-logo]
>> <https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en>  [image: in-logo]
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp>  [image:
>> tw-logo]
>> <https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor>
>>   [image: yt-logo]
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA>
>> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>>
>> *From: *AF  on behalf of Colin Stanners <
>> cstann...@gmail.com>
>> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Date: *Friday, November 8, 2019 at 9:13 PM
>> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Thomas Freeburg
>>
>>
>>
>> I was doing some research, visited the Bitlomat site (remember them?) and
>> googled Thomas Freeburg, who was instrumental in creating the Canopy
>> system. Turns out that he died in 2018. RIP great engineer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20180923/motorola-executive-known-as-the-wizard-was-ahead-of-his-time
>>
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Thomas Freeburg

[Chuck Macenski]

Amongst many other accomplishments and countless patents, Tom was the buy
who assembled (and provided a Motorola home for) the original Canopy
engineering team. He is missed.

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 7:20 AM Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

> RIP
>
>
>
> *Gino*
> *Villarini *Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
> m:
> [image: aeronet-logo]  [image: inc500]
>  [image: fb-logo]
>   [image: insta-logo]
>   [image: in-logo]
>   [image:
> tw-logo]
> 
>   [image: yt-logo]
> 
> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of Colin Stanners <
> cstann...@gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Date: *Friday, November 8, 2019 at 9:13 PM
> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Thomas Freeburg
>
>
>
> I was doing some research, visited the Bitlomat site (remember them?) and
> googled Thomas Freeburg, who was instrumental in creating the Canopy
> system. Turns out that he died in 2018. RIP great engineer.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20180923/motorola-executive-known-as-the-wizard-was-ahead-of-his-time
>
>
> --
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[AFMUG] Is it common to share IPs with outside companies?

[Chuck Macenski]

I just became aware of a company that pays to tunnel into your network and
use your IPs to send their internet traffic. They then sell their access
into your system for "competitive market research, QoE for large companies,
and ad verification products."

Their service sounds like an ideal platform from which to launch social
media campaigns or DDoS attacks (they don't mention that in the glossy
brochure.) Is this sort of thing used by anyone here? If so, how do you
know what they are doing with your IPs?

Chuck
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Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: FCC ID SWX-AF60 Application Processed : Ubiquiti Inc. for New Equipment

[Chuck Macenski]

I am not going to comment on new products, but I will remind everyone that
we came from Motorola, not Cambium!

On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 9:22 AM Colin Stanners  wrote:

> Unfortunately the AirFiber 60 FCC submission does not urrently include the
> user guide, so there's many things that are still unknown about it, but
> some notes from my quick view:
>
> -The Ubiquiti Early Access store lists it for $300. At that low price I'd
> be quite surprised if it was based on FPGA or Ubnt's proprietay silicon -
> it's likely Wi-Fi chipset based. This would be the first member of the
> AirFiber family that is Wi-Fi chipset based, in which case I'd have
> questions about its performance, especially in number of PPS, and software
> stability. (Currently the AirFiber line is what I consider Ubiquiti's best
> products - kind of expected since the ex-Cambium team was involved).
>
> -I'm surprised of the manufacturers (Ubnt and MT) that use a grid dish at
> 60Ghz; at that wavelengthand considering their experience in using solid
> dishes, I would think it would be easier and cheaper to use a solid dish.
>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: FCC ID Alert 
> Date: Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 8:38 AM
> Subject: FCC ID SWX-AF60 Application Processed : Ubiquiti Inc. for New
> Equipment
> To: 
>
>
> FCC ID Application Processed For Ubiquiti Inc. for New Equipment.
> FCC ID SWX-AF60
> 
> Equipment: airFiber 60
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] FSK Stability

[Chuck Macenski]

Sniff sniff...

On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 4:45 PM dave via AF  wrote:

> Decompd our last one 3 months ago
>
>
>
> On 8/27/19 2:57 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>
> Getting ready to decom some old FSK aps.  Almost makes me sad to unplug
> it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Radio Failure, which is more common

[Chuck Macenski]

When an airFiber radio has signal issues and modulates all the way down to
1x, it stops using chain 1 (hence the signal level drops). It may be that
there is some issue causing that direction to modulate down to 1x?

On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 8:40 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Not AF24 specific, but absent any other information, I always change the
> xmt
> side first.  Losing 20-30 dB sounds like a blown xmt power amp.  Totally
> deaf could be either side.
>
> But maybe someone can add info about typical AF24 failure modes that would
> supersede this.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2019 7:19 AM
> To: Animal Farm 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Radio Failure, which is more common
>
> I have an AF24 Link which was humming along nicely, but just dropped 30db
> on
> one chain on one end.  Since it's only 1 chain, and only on one end, I'm
> thinking it's not an alignment or infringement problem.  Which is more
> likely to be the failure, that the Transmitter burned out, or that the
> Receiver went deaf?  Just trying to figure out which end to start with
> replacing the equipment.
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT fun call

[Chuck Macenski]

Since we are playing grammar police, I think it is written "intents and
purposes". I suspect that this is already known and I just fell into a
troll trap.

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 9:15 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> It's not "irregardless", it's "undissirregardless".
>
> You should no that.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 7/30/2019 4:47 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> For all intensive purposes this is not music to my oldtimers brane.
> Irreguardless, it should be allow to call itself music.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 30, 2019 5:40 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT fun call
>
>
> Now could you care less?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 30, 2019 6:36 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT fun call
>
>
>
> That was music?
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 30, 2019 5:33 PM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT fun call
>
>
>
> OK, it looks like there’s an official music video for that, can’t say I’m
> very fond of the band or the song.  But the comments compare them to Lamb
> of God, which I know has a loyal following.
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9_nsXgtD6k
>
>
>
> Someone once gave me a bumper sticker that said “It’s not that I’m old,
> your music really does suck.”
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 30, 2019 5:59 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT fun call
>
>
>
> I could care less...
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 30, 2019 4:09 PM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT fun call
>
>
>
> The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
>
>
>
> Not sure why everyone says it wrong.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *dave
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 30, 2019 4:19 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT fun call
>
>
>
> I was always taught the proof is in the puddin :)
>
>
> On 7/18/19 10:19 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I got a call from a guy wanting to know why my surge suppressors are
> better than Transtector.  Hard question to answer.  Which paper towel is
> the quicker picker upper.  Duracell or Energizer etc.  He had lots of
> grounding opinions etc.  Was a bit of a tedious call in the beginning.
>
>
>
> I told him to get on this list and get opinions from users.  He did not
> want to do that.
>
>
>
> The conversation evolved into him describeing the high frequency trading
> system he is building using HF radio to Europe. Curtain Arrays.  16-64 QAM
> 50-200 kbps.  50 kW transmitter I think.   A real hummingbird project.
> They send the data via radio and fiber.  Then at the far end they look at
> the delayed pure data to adjust RF equalizer circuits to clean up the RX
> data.  Fun stuff.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT 50 years ago

[Chuck Macenski]

I still own one of these. It got me started

On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 2:22 PM  wrote:

> http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/html/1969/hr124.html
> It was still kicking around a few years ago.
> That was probably the best xmas gift my folks ever gave me.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:21 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 50 years ago
>
>
> I had a Knight 12-in-1 lab kit (page 65 in the catalog).
>
>
> https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Catalogs/Allied-Catalogs/Allied-Catalog-1963.pdf
>
>
>
> I also remember taking tubes to the drug store with a tube tester.  Often
> a TV had several tubes of the same type (6SN7 or 12AX7 or 12AU7) and you
> could just play musical chairs until the weak one ended up in a less
> critical location.  That or you called the TV repairman to come out to your
> house.  Once the transistor sets came out though, he would always say “the
> board” needed to be replaced, and at that point you might as well buy a new
> set.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:12 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 50 years ago
>
>
>
> I spent hours at 2 am trying to improve the convergence on my parents
> color set as that is when the test pattern were on.
>
>
>
> I used to feed audio into the vertical deflection coils of old B TVs
> trying to make a rudimentary oscilloscope.  Probably was all of 10 years
> old at the time.  Kids used to have much more fun than they do now.  I also
> had saltpeter...
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:05 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 50 years ago
>
>
>
> Black and white TVs just shot one beam; color would shoot 3 beams. The
> beams would just go straight out to the center of the screen without any
> steering. That's why one of the failure modes was just a glowing dot in the
> center of the screen. Steering was done with electromagnets in the form of
> a "yoke" wrapped around the neck of the CRT. One pair for horizontal scan,
> and one pair for vertical scan. Black and white was pretty simple, but
> color had all kinds of issues because the 3 beams could not be concentric,
> they were closely-spaced parallel beams.
>
> I forget what tool we used once to measure the radiation from the front of
> a CRT, but it wasn't much. In fact, it was almost undetectable once you got
> more than an inch away.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 7/21/2019 8:36 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> I got a thumb into the HV on a TV once.  Felt like a dull twisted awl that
> was red hot being jabbed into my thumb.  Not a feeling of shock at all.
>
>
>
> Yep, once I discharged my first CRT I got over the fear and then kinda
> looked forward to doing it.  I don’t remember triplers, seems like there
> was an HV rectifier tube.  Maybe it was just a chopper that fed the
> triplers or stick rectifier.  I always presumed the tube did the job.
> Maybe the tube just made the horizontal scan?
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 21, 2019 9:23 AM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 50 years ago
>
>
>
> I think it could be as high as 30 KV.  Hard to believe we all had these
> things in our living rooms.  Between the high voltage, the X-rays (stopped
> by thick leaded glass at the front), and a big glass tube with a vacuum
> inside and a fragile neck.
>
>
>
> I worked a couple years in the 70’s for Warwick Electronics, which made
> TVs for Sears and Kmart.  Before you worked on a set, you had to discharge
> the CRT which was like a big capacitor and would hold the charge for
> awhile.  The engineers and techs there would break off a length of solder,
> hold one end against the chassis, and hold the other end against a big flat
> bladed screwdriver which they would shove under the anode cap with a Zap
> sound.  I was not brave enough to do it that way, I would at least use a
> wire with alligator clips at each end.
>
>
>
> BTW, the lingering charge problem was worse when they replaced went to
> triplers instead of stick rectifiers.  A voltage tripler is basically a
> bunch of capacitors and diodes.
>
>
>
> We also had an electrostatic voltmeter to measure second anode voltage.
> It was on a rollaround cart and had a vacuum inside and the voltage was
> measured by the deflection of a needle based on the electrostatic repulsion
> of two plates.  Another capacitor, and it could hold a charge for days.  It
> was referred to as “the dog” because it was the size and shape of a medium
> size dog, had a snout where the high voltage probe went in, and it would
> bite you if you weren’t careful.
>
>
>
> We had a high voltage engineer who died of electrocution.  Not at work,
> but at home, from his ham radio transmitter.  Heart stopped, wife called
> 911, but they didn’t get there in time.  Live by the sword, die by the
> sword.
>
>
>
> I was told that most 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Email Etiquette

[Chuck Macenski]

I end up using voice recognition to keep up with my kids when texting.

On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 6:45 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> One of my nieces texts so fast, they are incoming in a chain almost faster
> than I can read. I think she texts faster than she talks. Naw. She talks
> fast too...
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 7/1/2019 4:24 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> I’m amazed when I send someone a text message and receive a response
> within 5 seconds.  In that time they realized they had a message, read it,
> decided on a reply, typed it probably with 2 thumbs, and sent it, plus
> propagation time through the phone network twice.  And this is probably
> while they were at work, or driving.  Now, that’s real time.  Probably too
> real time.  Back in the written communication era, you would put the letter
> in the desk drawer overnight before sending it.  Email has a Drafts folder,
> so you can think about it and maybe do some editing or not send it at all.
> But texts don’t have a Drafts folder, just a Send button.  No Oops button
> either.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Monday, July 1, 2019 5:56 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Email Etiquette
>
>
>
> Text?  What is this text you speak of...
>
>
>
> I tell my kids I love email because of its real time nature...
>
>
>
> *From:* Matt Corcoran
>
> *Sent:* Monday, July 1, 2019 3:36 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Email Etiquette
>
>
>
> You think writing Etiquette is bad.   How about reading Etiquette. I
> find when you send a clean point by point list via email.  Half the time
> people only respond to the first point and dump the rest.
>
>
>
> Some people think email is just another way to text.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of Lewis Bergman <
> lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Date: *Monday, July 1, 2019 at 10:45 AM
> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Email Etiquette
>
>
>
> It's funny. Many people are hyper sensative about privacy, but when their
> internet breaks, they believe you should be able to read their minds, know
> everything about their issue, and be able to devine anything else that
> might have happened in or around their property that might have caused the
> issue.
>
>
>
> I also find the older people get, the less they seem to remember that
> whoever they are communicting with, no matter the method, may not have any
> context for the conversation. Many times, the conversation they were having
> was in their own head.
>
>
>
> Before my father died I remember an email he sent to a model airplane
> supplier he purchased a lot of product from. It basically went something
> like this:
>
> "I got this order in late and some stuff was missing and another thing was
> broken. Can you make this right? Thanks". He probably ordered 5 times a
> month from this company. There is no way they could have been anything but
> confused.
>
>
>
> My dad was well spoken and intelligent and wrote email like he was a
> drunken toddler.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 8:50 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> I think there are a couple of issues. First, people who attempt to use
> email on their phone with some crappy email interface can barely
> actually send the email, let alone leave any identifiable information.
>
> Second is people who are not even slightly technical who just don't know
> how to use email. E.g.: We have a neighbor with whom we share a private
> road. He will dig up an email string from 3 years ago and "reply all",
> even though the subject line is 3 years old and has nothing to do with
> what he's talking about today.
>
> IOW, I don't think it's so much etiquette as it is ignorance.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 7/1/2019 4:08 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
> > So I've noticed a slide recently of what I would consider 'Email
> > Etiquette'  Customers send an email with no subject line.  Or reply to
> > an old email, with a new topic.  EG: our billing system sends out
> > automated invoices.  A customer will just reply to one of those
> > emails, weeks later, with a service issue.  Doesn't bother to change
> > the subject line or anything.  Another common email is just an email
> > with the text "my internet is down"  No name/address/phone, anything
> > else identifiable.  sometimes the email they use is in our system and
> > we can find it that way, other times not.
> >
> > At some point I must have learned how to use email, I'm guessing
> > people no longer learn that.
> >
> > And don't get me started on the people that text the main office
> > number.  I mean, we do get the SMS messages, but again, usually it's
> > just a text like 'Internet is not working'  With nothing else to know
> > who it is.
> >
>
> --
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
> --
>

Re: [AFMUG] Today’s quiz

[Chuck Macenski]

The larger blank band separates the value from the accuracy band starts. As
to what those colors actually are, well, I really couldn't tell.

On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 3:26 PM  wrote:

> Actually Ken got it right.
> My DVM was reading .802k and I had a brain fart thinking it was 802k and
> there was no way I could make 802K match the colors.
> Not sure why it cannot display 802 instead.  Fluke.  I even manually set
> the range and it just says over limit on the straight ohm setting.
>
> But I could not figure out which end to start reading from, the gray band
> looks like it could be white or silver to my eyes.
>
> So brown black blue black gray should be 106 ohms, right?
>
> How are you supposed to know which end to start with on these precision
> resistors?
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 19, 2019 12:40 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Today’s quiz
>
>
> Is that first band grey or white?  Makes more sense that it’s grey.  806
> ohms 1%.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Albert J Rachide
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:37 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Today’s quiz
>
>
>
> 4060 ohms?
>
> Al Rachide
> Pink Hill, NC
>
>
>
>
>
> [image:
> https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]
> 
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
> 
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 2:16 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>
> What should the resistance be?
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone--
> AF mailing list
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Fair warning

[Chuck Macenski]

Hey! I didn't see these terms when I signed up. What if I want to get more
spam?

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 3:44 PM  wrote:

>
>
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2019 2:42 PM
> *To:* ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fair warning
>
> We will try this again:
> [image: image]
>
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2019 2:13 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fair warning
>
> Thanks,
> Mail Chimp received a direct complaint today from one of our list
> subscribers.
> Not too long after the complaint, we had a new subscriber join the list.
> I asked him if, during the subscription process, anything was said about
> me sending out spam now and then.
>
> He said he received the following from the list serv:
>
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> Not sure what more I can do.  I went to Mail Chimp several years ago so
> that you can have the option of getting my spam or not but staying on the
> list.  This particular person that complained to me today and (presumably
> to Mail Chimp) prefers we spam the list instead.
>
> I think this is the first complaint that Mail Chimp has ever received
> about me.
>
> I guess if they boot me, I will have to spam the list...
>
>
> *From:* Albert J Rachide
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2019 1:59 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fair warning
>
> Keep up the good work!
>
> Al Rachide
> Pink Hill, NC
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 2:07 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> As all of the old timers know, I advertise my products here.  Forrest is
>> free to do so as well.  My dealers too.   And we open it up on Friday
>> mornings to everyone as a swap meet.  When I send things there days I use
>> mailchimp for a variety of reasons.  Plus it allows you to opt out of my
>> spam and still be on this list for all the rest of the subject matter.  It
>> appears that some are unaware.  I will have to double check the list
>> subscription process to make sure this is made clear to new subs here.
>> Sorry to those that think I am mining the list for spam purposes.  It is
>> worse than that actually as I own the domain and have always used it and
>> the AF shows to market my junk.  I guess I need to make it more clear when
>> subscribing.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit

[Chuck Macenski]

Did you look at REFf with a scope? Is that an oscillator?

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 3:44 PM  wrote:

> They also have a pair of LEDs in parallel with each other but in series
> with the op amp power rail to indicate output.  Crazy all over the place.
>
> *From:* Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 4, 2018 2:29 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit
>
> Check the V- side of the circuit - is it tied to 0v or is that the
> output?
>
> https://www.edn.com/design/analog/4320338/Op-amp-can-source-or-sink-current
>
> version (e) looks a bit like what you have and they are using the negative
> rail of the chip as a constant current source.
>
> Mark
>
> On Dec 4, 2018, at 3:51 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Nope.  The sensor is a different part of the circuit.
>
> *From:* Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 4, 2018 1:41 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Linear Circuit
>
> Seems like one of those resistors is the sensor?   To me it looks like the
> output is going to try to stay just over 3V but will lag ‘ref out’ up or
> down if there is any voltage on it.I can’t recall if op amps can sink
> current or not.
>
> The wife was annoyed that the contractor blew up the new fan hood for the
> kitchen remodel with a dead short on the output.  A Replacement board was 8
> weeks out.   “Can’t you get out your special catalog and fix it?”.   I
> suppose - hum.. this circuit board is built to drive more than one fan.
> Let’s take this SCR out and move it over here, solder a new fuse in here…
> yep - don’t even need to order parts.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Dec 4, 2018, at 2:43 PM,   wrote:
>
> I am reverse engineering a temp control circuit on an electric tankless
> hot water heater.
> Manufacturer says no user replicable parts inside.  Oh yeah?
>
> It has this as a reference voltage circuit (below) for a comparator to
> compare against a thermistor and pot combo.
> LM324
>
> Odd taking a reference voltage from an input.  Have never seen this
> circuit before.  I think I have drawn it correctly.
> The op amp will drive the output to minimize the differences between pins
> 5&6 so pin 6 should reflect the voltage of the divider with lower
> impedance.
>
> Anyone see why this wouldn’t work?  I was sure I had traced it
> incorrectly, but I think this really is the circuit.
> It seems the values of R10 and R11 are not critical.  Or are they?
>
>
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT this too

[Chuck Macenski]

I'll store it for you :)

On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 6:00 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> never know when you might need that...
>
> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 11:51 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Let it go  let it go 
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2018 10:56 AM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT this too
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Massachusettes Gas situation

[Chuck Macenski]

That or an air pocket in the main that killed all of those old pilot lights?

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 8:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Whadya wanna bet it was a huge over-pressure surge situation.
> At lease we will will probably never blow up someone’s house.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

[Chuck Macenski]

If the "law" in question is that the export of a 3D printed design is an
ITAR violation, then that's what the discussion (in the courts) should be
about. Having said that, it is my limited understanding that the judge in
the case was more worried about its use inside the US. To me, that seems
like a stretch. You should not read my personal position on whether this is
a good idea into this comment; I just wish people would argue about
controversial issues honestly rather than, as an example, using an ITAR
restriction to control distribution within the US. This is far from the
only issue where people argue their position based on one set of facts when
their real concern is something quite different.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 3:22 PM justsumname  wrote:

> In response to OP:
> “Regardless of what a person may be able to publish on the Internet,
> undetectable plastic guns have been illegal for 30 years.  Federal law
> passed in 1988, crafted with the NRA’s support, makes it unlawful to
> manufacture, import, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive an
> undetectable firearm.”
>
> In response to my Nanny State comment:   I am offended by victimless
> felonies.   They trigger me.   And when I think about them, I feel
> micro-aggressed.
>
> My understanding is that there is NO "plastic gun" even in question.
>  Even a 3-D printed 'firearm' will not function without a few metal parts,
> such as, a chamber.   Or maybe perhaps a trigger spring.   Or a barrel.
>
> Ya know, if you make a gun wrongly, you might discover how to make a
> bomb.   And that's illegal already, too.
>
> --Damn It
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Nixie tubes

[Chuck Macenski]

Old silver and black typewriter keys. Think Enigma machine...

On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 3:28 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I must be nuts.
> I am working on a calculator project that uses nixie tubes for a display.
>
> I want to use a telephone magneto to charge up a cap to run the thing.
> Kinda a steam punk RPN HP type of calculator.
> I am stuck on what to use for buttons.  I am thinking elevator buttons.
>
> Large oak case.  Just crank it for 10 seconds and then do  your
> calculation.
>
> I am also conflicted as to how many buttons.
> Square and square root for sure.
> Undecided about log, trig functions and whether or not to have scientific
> notation.  I think I will.
> How many digits to display?  Probably 5.  Engineering mode only.  3 dot 2
> display.
> Also considering multiple lines to show 4 levels of the stack but I doubt
> I will actually do that.
>
> The question is: will I ever finish this thing?
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Re: [AFMUG] Mimo Antenna Magic

[Chuck Macenski]

Nate,

Don't go there. Make both antennas either V/H or Slant.

Chuck

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 7:11 PM Chris Fabien  wrote:

> We recently ran into this exact situation with AF5X-HD radios. 3ft dishes
> with H/V on one end and 45 Slant on the other end. I tried to switch the
> H/V antenna to Slant, it looked at first glance like it had provision to do
> both but the bolt holes didn't actually line up. However I did monitor
> signal as I rotated the feed from H/V to Slant, there was no noticable
> difference in signal or air rates.
>
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 7:56 PM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> It seems to me that you're always better off matching them, unless you
>> have a good reason not to (like, say, if both antennas were already on the
>> towers).
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 4:45 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> I agree, just match them and then it doesn’t matter if the radio does
>>> the fancy stuff or not.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 5, 2018 3:29 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mimo Antenna Magic
>>>
>>> Yeah, that works with any wifi based radio, and Canopy, but I don't know
>>> that it works with airFiber... it seems to me that I tried it once, and it
>>> work very badly, but things could've changed since then. Why don't you just
>>> use a V/H dish for the new one? If you want to use the 23dbi airfiber dish,
>>> UBNT doesn't have a V/H equivalent, but there are plenty of other antennas
>>> that will do the job fine.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 11:39 AM,  wrote:
>>>
 I wouldn't say there is no signal loss, but the white paper I read
 indicated that the circuit is able to extract information from both
 antennas and combine it in such a way that the SNR does not suffer.

 -Original Message- From: Nate Burke
 Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2018 10:32 AM
 To: Animal Farm
 Subject: [AFMUG] Mimo Antenna Magic


 Do I remember reading somewhere (possibly on this list) that because of
 the way that MIMO Works, you can have a 45 slant antenna on one end and
 a V/H antenna on the other end and there is no signal loss? I want to
 upgrade a Link; Rocket with a 2' dish (V/H) to Powerbridge, to a set of
 AFx radios 2'(V/H) to AFx antenna.  I can't easily change the 2' dish to
 dual slant without replacing it, since it's not a UBNT dish, but the AFx
 dish on the other end will be dual slant.  Would that work?



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