Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices

[Colin Stanners]

One of our competitors did that - but they had some cables coming out of
weathertights *at the top* of the middle connection box to go to the top
connection box, and in some cases had pull on the cables that made those
weathertights not-so-tight. Connection boxes got a nice bath.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 3:56 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> It'll be nice when you can just run a 48 count fiber up the side of the
> tower, plug each radio into a strand of glass and never have to worry about
> having enough cables up the tower ever again.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
> *From: *"Mark Radabaugh" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, July 17, 2019 3:52:54 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices
>
> >
> > IMO The replacement question is moot anywaywhy are you replacing
> cables?  Probably they got water in them.  Why did they get water in them?
> Because someone stomped it with their boot, banged a toolbag into it,
> nicked it when cutting a zip tie, a bird or squirrel picked at it, or it
> rubbed on sharp edge.  I.E.: Physical damage which would have been
> prevented by the conduit.  I'm not an evangelist on this topic, and we have
> plenty of cables that are just zip tied up a structure, but I do believe
> conduit is better.
>
> Usually it’s because the 12 cables we installed the first time are not
> enough for the additional radios we are adding to the tower.   Yeah - I
> know, run more cables the first time.   Except that this time we need 12ga
> + 2 fiber.  Or something other than what we originally put up.
>
> Mark
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices

[Sean Heskett]

Preach it brother Mike!!

-Sean


On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 2:56 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> It'll be nice when you can just run a 48 count fiber up the side of the
> tower, plug each radio into a strand of glass and never have to worry about
> having enough cables up the tower ever again.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ----------
> *From: *"Mark Radabaugh" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, July 17, 2019 3:52:54 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices
>
> >
> > IMO The replacement question is moot anywaywhy are you replacing
> cables?  Probably they got water in them.  Why did they get water in them?
> Because someone stomped it with their boot, banged a toolbag into it,
> nicked it when cutting a zip tie, a bird or squirrel picked at it, or it
> rubbed on sharp edge.  I.E.: Physical damage which would have been
> prevented by the conduit.  I'm not an evangelist on this topic, and we have
> plenty of cables that are just zip tied up a structure, but I do believe
> conduit is better.
>
> Usually it’s because the 12 cables we installed the first time are not
> enough for the additional radios we are adding to the tower.   Yeah - I
> know, run more cables the first time.   Except that this time we need 12ga
> + 2 fiber.  Or something other than what we originally put up.
>
> Mark
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices

[Mike Hammett]

It'll be nice when you can just run a 48 count fiber up the side of the tower, 
plug each radio into a strand of glass and never have to worry about having 
enough cables up the tower ever again. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mark Radabaugh"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 3:52:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices 

> 
> IMO The replacement question is moot anywaywhy are you replacing cables? 
> Probably they got water in them. Why did they get water in them? Because 
> someone stomped it with their boot, banged a toolbag into it, nicked it when 
> cutting a zip tie, a bird or squirrel picked at it, or it rubbed on sharp 
> edge. I.E.: Physical damage which would have been prevented by the conduit. 
> I'm not an evangelist on this topic, and we have plenty of cables that are 
> just zip tied up a structure, but I do believe conduit is better. 

Usually it’s because the 12 cables we installed the first time are not enough 
for the additional radios we are adding to the tower. Yeah - I know, run more 
cables the first time. Except that this time we need 12ga + 2 fiber. Or 
something other than what we originally put up. 

Mark 


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Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices

[Mark Radabaugh]

> 
> IMO The replacement question is moot anywaywhy are you replacing cables?  
> Probably they got water in them.  Why did they get water in them? Because 
> someone stomped it with their boot, banged a toolbag into it, nicked it when 
> cutting a zip tie, a bird or squirrel picked at it, or it rubbed on sharp 
> edge.  I.E.: Physical damage which would have been prevented by the conduit.  
> I'm not an evangelist on this topic, and we have plenty of cables that are 
> just zip tied up a structure, but I do believe conduit is better.

Usually it’s because the 12 cables we installed the first time are not enough 
for the additional radios we are adding to the tower.   Yeah - I know, run more 
cables the first time.   Except that this time we need 12ga + 2 fiber.  Or 
something other than what we originally put up.

Mark


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Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices

[Adam Moffett]

Do you guys ground all your base radios?


Yes.


Do you use surge suppressors?


I've done it both ways.  Currently yes, but only at the bottom.


Do you use shielded cable on the towers with metal ends?


Yes


Do you put all your cable in conduit going up the tower?

Depends.  We have some that are highly visible, and conduit keeps them 
looking cleaner than a bundle of zip tied cables would.  The point about 
long vertical hanging is valid, but there are ways to mitigate that:  
You can add boxes with grips in the middle, or you can stuff the conduit 
so full that the cables can't move.  Laugh if you want to, but I promise 
you that works.  On shortish towers I don't even worry about it.  We 
have more than twenty 70' high poles with CAT5, fiber, and DC power 
secured at the top, but otherwise hanging freely in a vertical 2" 
conduit.  Zero problems.


I'll disagree with the idea that replacing one cable is harder.  You 
just use the bad cable to pull in the good one.  If you have grips in 
the middle, then stop at each box and pull it at each one.  If you have 
a bundle zip tied up a tower leg you have to cut and replace zip ties 
the whole way up the tower.  There's no way that's faster.  And let's be 
real here, when you're zip tying those cables up you're probably just 
adding in a new good cable and leaving the old one there forever because 
it's too much hassle to get it out of the bundle.


IMO The replacement question is moot anywaywhy are you replacing 
cables?  Probably they got water in them.  Why did they get water in 
them? Because someone stomped it with their boot, banged a toolbag into 
it, nicked it when cutting a zip tie, a bird or squirrel picked at it, 
or it rubbed on sharp edge.  I.E.: Physical damage which would have been 
prevented by the conduit.  I'm not an evangelist on this topic, and we 
have plenty of cables that are just zip tied up a structure, but I do 
believe conduit is better.


You could also use a ladder and snap-ins like Daniel White suggested.  
They make blocks with holes for multiple CAT5 cables.  I never went down 
that road only because it seemed to add up to a lot of $ when you figure 
up what all the little parts cost.  It sounds like a good way in principle.




Do you use steel cable ties?


No


Do you put some kind of grease or spray on the cat5 end before you set 
in place?



No, but nor do I object to the practice.


Do you use stainless steel guy wires?

Stainless never occurred to me.  I didn't know that was an option. 
Structural steel has higher tensile strength than stainless, and hot dip 
galvanized isn't going to rust in your lifetime unless you've got a 
galvanic corrosion thing going on.


-Adam





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Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices

[Lewis Bergman]

Huh, that sounds kind of like an always or never statement. I'll bet some
people have other good reasons for doing conduit.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 11:16 AM Daniel White  wrote:

> Conduit should only be used on rooftops (cable trays can be expensive) and
> tower situations where heavy RF interference is leaking into the cable.
>
> In an ideal world to run cable up the tower you do a cable ladder and
> cable blocks:  https://www.sitepro1.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list=4
>
> [image: photograph]
> Daniel White
> Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
> phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2770
> Colin Stanners wrote on 7/17/19 08:12:
>
> The only ones that I'd give a hard-no to are to cable in conduit going up
> the tower (would result in a lot of pull on the cables as they aren't
> attached for a very long distance; limits upgrade options) and the
> grease/spray on cat5 ends (unless you're at sea or very humid areas).
>
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 8:48 AM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> Most of those things are a good idea, even if not completely necessary (a
>> lot of it, like shielded cable, is necessary, in my opinion).
>>
>> Steel cable ties sound like a bad idea (assuming you're talking about the
>> zip tie type... I imagine that would tend to cut through cables).
>>
>> If you've had problems with guy wires rusting, then I would probably look
>> into stainless steel, but I think galvanized is generally fine... I'm
>> certainly not an expert on that subject though.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 1:31 AM Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT) <
>> r...@latrobeit.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Guys
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m continually improving my 15 year old Wisp and had some questions..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you guys ground all your base radios?
>>>
>>> Do you use surge suppressors?
>>>
>>> Do you use shielded cable on the towers with metal ends?
>>>
>>> Do you put all your cable in conduit going up the tower?
>>>
>>> Do you use steel cable ties?
>>>
>>> Do you put some kind of grease or spray on the cat5 end before you set
>>> in place?
>>>
>>> Do you use stainless steel guy wires?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My answer to all these is no ☹  but I figure if I’m rebuilding I should
>>> do it right the 5th time!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks very much for any idea’s
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rhys
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>>
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices

[Daniel White]

Conduit should only be used on rooftops (cable trays can be expensive) 
and tower situations where heavy RF interference is leaking into the cable.


In an ideal world to run cable up the tower you do a cable ladder and 
cable blocks: https://www.sitepro1.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list=4


photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
phone: +1 (702) 470-2766
direct:+1 (702) 470-2770

Colin Stanners wrote on 7/17/19 08:12:
The only ones that I'd give a hard-no to are to cable in conduit going 
up the tower (would result in a lot of pull on the cables as they 
aren't attached for a very long distance; limits upgrade options) and 
the grease/spray on cat5 ends (unless you're at sea or very humid areas).


On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 8:48 AM Mathew Howard > wrote:


Most of those things are a good idea, even if not completely
necessary (a lot of it, like shielded cable, is necessary, in my
opinion).

Steel cable ties sound like a bad idea (assuming you're talking
about the zip tie type... I imagine that would tend to cut through
cables).

If you've had problems with guy wires rusting, then I would
probably look into stainless steel, but I think galvanized is
generally fine... I'm certainly not an expert on that subject though.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 1:31 AM Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT)
mailto:r...@latrobeit.com.au>> wrote:

Hi Guys

I’m continually improving my 15 year old Wisp and had some
questions..

Do you guys ground all your base radios?

Do you use surge suppressors?

Do you use shielded cable on the towers with metal ends?

Do you put all your cable in conduit going up the tower?

Do you use steel cable ties?

Do you put some kind of grease or spray on the cat5 end before
you set in place?

Do you use stainless steel guy wires?

My answer to all these is no ☹  but I figure if I’m rebuilding
I should do it right the 5^th time!

Thanks very much for any idea’s

Rhys

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Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices

[Lewis Bergman]

>
> Do you guys ground all your base radios?
>
Yes

> Do you use surge suppressors?
>
Yes, Chuck's

> Do you use shielded cable on the towers with metal ends?
>
Yes, watch for ground loops

> Do you put all your cable in conduit going up the tower?
>
No, but I know a number of really good WISPs that do and it probably is the
best idea. Replacing a cable would be a bear I would think.

> Do you use steel cable ties?
>
Rubber grommet things made for the cable with snapin hangers. If you space
then to far apart they will cause the cable jacket to split is the wind
vibrates the cable. 2 for apart seems to work well.

> Do you put some kind of grease or spray on the cat5 end before you set in
> place?
>
Yes

> Do you use stainless steel guy wires?
>
I don't anyone makes SS guys as SS is so soft.

>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices

[Chuck McCown]

Not sure if I have ever seen stainless guys.  They have all been galvanized in 
my experience.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 7:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices

Most of those things are a good idea, even if not completely necessary (a lot 
of it, like shielded cable, is necessary, in my opinion).

Steel cable ties sound like a bad idea (assuming you're talking about the zip 
tie type... I imagine that would tend to cut through cables). 


If you've had problems with guy wires rusting, then I would probably look into 
stainless steel, but I think galvanized is generally fine... I'm certainly not 
an expert on that subject though.


On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 1:31 AM Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT)  
wrote:

  Hi Guys



  I’m continually improving my 15 year old Wisp and had some questions..



  Do you guys ground all your base radios?

  Do you use surge suppressors?

  Do you use shielded cable on the towers with metal ends?

  Do you put all your cable in conduit going up the tower?

  Do you use steel cable ties?

  Do you put some kind of grease or spray on the cat5 end before you set in 
place?

  Do you use stainless steel guy wires?



  My answer to all these is no ☹  but I figure if I’m rebuilding I should do it 
right the 5th time!



  Thanks very much for any idea’s



  Rhys









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Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, I've never done cable in conduit, unless it's required at that
particular site for whatever reason (and even then it's typically just a DC
cable, and maybe one data line in the conduit)... packing a dozen cat5
cables into a conduit sounds like way too much hassle.  We have done grease
on cat5 ends in some cases, but in general, we don't bother with it... but
yeah, in some environments it's probably a good idea.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 9:13 AM Colin Stanners  wrote:

> The only ones that I'd give a hard-no to are to cable in conduit going up
> the tower (would result in a lot of pull on the cables as they aren't
> attached for a very long distance; limits upgrade options) and the
> grease/spray on cat5 ends (unless you're at sea or very humid areas).
>
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 8:48 AM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> Most of those things are a good idea, even if not completely necessary (a
>> lot of it, like shielded cable, is necessary, in my opinion).
>>
>> Steel cable ties sound like a bad idea (assuming you're talking about the
>> zip tie type... I imagine that would tend to cut through cables).
>>
>> If you've had problems with guy wires rusting, then I would probably look
>> into stainless steel, but I think galvanized is generally fine... I'm
>> certainly not an expert on that subject though.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 1:31 AM Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT) <
>> r...@latrobeit.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Guys
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m continually improving my 15 year old Wisp and had some questions..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you guys ground all your base radios?
>>>
>>> Do you use surge suppressors?
>>>
>>> Do you use shielded cable on the towers with metal ends?
>>>
>>> Do you put all your cable in conduit going up the tower?
>>>
>>> Do you use steel cable ties?
>>>
>>> Do you put some kind of grease or spray on the cat5 end before you set
>>> in place?
>>>
>>> Do you use stainless steel guy wires?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My answer to all these is no ☹  but I figure if I’m rebuilding I should
>>> do it right the 5th time!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks very much for any idea’s
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rhys
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices

[Colin Stanners]

The only ones that I'd give a hard-no to are to cable in conduit going up
the tower (would result in a lot of pull on the cables as they aren't
attached for a very long distance; limits upgrade options) and the
grease/spray on cat5 ends (unless you're at sea or very humid areas).

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 8:48 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Most of those things are a good idea, even if not completely necessary (a
> lot of it, like shielded cable, is necessary, in my opinion).
>
> Steel cable ties sound like a bad idea (assuming you're talking about the
> zip tie type... I imagine that would tend to cut through cables).
>
> If you've had problems with guy wires rusting, then I would probably look
> into stainless steel, but I think galvanized is generally fine... I'm
> certainly not an expert on that subject though.
>
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 1:31 AM Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT) <
> r...@latrobeit.com.au> wrote:
>
>> Hi Guys
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m continually improving my 15 year old Wisp and had some questions..
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you guys ground all your base radios?
>>
>> Do you use surge suppressors?
>>
>> Do you use shielded cable on the towers with metal ends?
>>
>> Do you put all your cable in conduit going up the tower?
>>
>> Do you use steel cable ties?
>>
>> Do you put some kind of grease or spray on the cat5 end before you set in
>> place?
>>
>> Do you use stainless steel guy wires?
>>
>>
>>
>> My answer to all these is no ☹  but I figure if I’m rebuilding I should
>> do it right the 5th time!
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks very much for any idea’s
>>
>>
>>
>> Rhys
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices

[Mark Radabaugh]

inline

> On Jul 17, 2019, at 2:30 AM, Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT)  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Guys
>  
> I’m continually improving my 15 year old Wisp and had some questions..
>  
> Do you guys ground all your base radios?

Yes

> Do you use surge suppressors?

Yes - type varies depending on equipment but if recommended by the manufacturer 
we use them.  Some gear has it built in.

> Do you use shielded cable on the towers with metal ends?

Shielded cable yes.   We do not use metal ends and prefer to bring the drain 
wire out out of the cable at the RJ45 and ground it directly.  I don’t really 
trust the metal shell on a RJ45 to actually make good contact.

> Do you put all your cable in conduit going up the tower?

We try to avoid that as much as possible.Ganged in cable management 
grommets.  It’s much easier when changes are required.

> Do you use steel cable ties?

Nope - hate those.   If the ends are not carefully secured they are about the 
same as leaving razor blades all over the tower.

> Do you put some kind of grease or spray on the cat5 end before you set in 
> place?

Silicon grease on and in the RJ45

> Do you use stainless steel guy wires?

No, standard EHS galvanized

>  
> My answer to all these is no ☹  but I figure if I’m rebuilding I should do it 
> right the 5th time!

Mostly yes would be my answer.

Mark

>  
> Thanks very much for any idea’s
>  
> Rhys
>  
>  
>  
>  
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Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices

[Mathew Howard]

Most of those things are a good idea, even if not completely necessary (a
lot of it, like shielded cable, is necessary, in my opinion).

Steel cable ties sound like a bad idea (assuming you're talking about the
zip tie type... I imagine that would tend to cut through cables).

If you've had problems with guy wires rusting, then I would probably look
into stainless steel, but I think galvanized is generally fine... I'm
certainly not an expert on that subject though.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 1:31 AM Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT) <
r...@latrobeit.com.au> wrote:

> Hi Guys
>
>
>
> I’m continually improving my 15 year old Wisp and had some questions..
>
>
>
> Do you guys ground all your base radios?
>
> Do you use surge suppressors?
>
> Do you use shielded cable on the towers with metal ends?
>
> Do you put all your cable in conduit going up the tower?
>
> Do you use steel cable ties?
>
> Do you put some kind of grease or spray on the cat5 end before you set in
> place?
>
> Do you use stainless steel guy wires?
>
>
>
> My answer to all these is no ☹  but I figure if I’m rebuilding I should
> do it right the 5th time!
>
>
>
> Thanks very much for any idea’s
>
>
>
> Rhys
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Best Practices

[Colin Stanners]

I can't answer on the SS guy wires as I don't build the non-residential
towers, but usually all the first 3 should be "yes", with some reason (e.g.
SSes near the shed entry, but not on the tower next to the radio, which
some manufacturers recommend but is excessive / prone to issues IMO).

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 1:31 AM Rhys Cuff (Latrobe IT) <
r...@latrobeit.com.au> wrote:

> Hi Guys
>
>
>
> I’m continually improving my 15 year old Wisp and had some questions..
>
>
>
> Do you guys ground all your base radios?
>
> Do you use surge suppressors?
>
> Do you use shielded cable on the towers with metal ends?
>
> Do you put all your cable in conduit going up the tower?
>
> Do you use steel cable ties?
>
> Do you put some kind of grease or spray on the cat5 end before you set in
> place?
>
> Do you use stainless steel guy wires?
>
>
>
> My answer to all these is no ☹  but I figure if I’m rebuilding I should
> do it right the 5th time!
>
>
>
> Thanks very much for any idea’s
>
>
>
> Rhys
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com