Re: [AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?

[Christopher Gray]

I'll give LinkPlanner a shot.



On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:13 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Honestly LinkPlanner is remarkable at calculating this.  Add in the trees
> and set the right dBi for the antennas and you'll get a damn good guess.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:58 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> It will be worse at 5GHz, and that's all you need to know. These days  I
>> would consider -71 dBm marginal, and anything worse is not something that I
>> would want to start with.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 4/17/2017 1:51 PM, Christopher Gray wrote:
>>
>>> I'm looking doing some calculations for a link that is currently 4.7
>>> miles effectively with M365 NanoBridges.
>>>
>>> The signal calculates out to -59 dBm, but in reality it is -71 dBm (12
>>> db loss through foliage).
>>>
>>> Is there a decent way to estimate what the equivalent foliage loss would
>>> be at 5 GHz?
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?

[Christopher Gray]

In these parts, "they" claim there is a lot of iron in the soil, so our
leaves are worse than elsewhere... but I've never been anywhere but here.



On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> The boys down in the Southern Yellow Pine parts of the world say that pine
> is worse than other types of trees.
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 3:56 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?
>
> I don't think there really is such a thing as typical loss through
> trees... there are way too many variables to be able reliably calculate
> anything, in my experience. But it's a pretty good bet that 5ghz will be
> worse although if it's a PTP link, you do have the benefit of being
> able to use a lot more TX power with 5ghz, so you might be able to make up
> for the additional loss.
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
>> 5GHz through trees?  100% loss at that range.  Seriously, I don't know,
>> but I'd be willing to bet that is not going to work well at all.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> for 3.65ghz I've been told 125db / km is typical loss through trees.  So
>>> I guess if that's true in your case then you've got 100m or so of trees to
>>> get through.
>>>
>>> I do not know the equivalent number for 5.8ghz.  Maybe somebody else can
>>> fill in the blank.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Christopher Gray" 
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 4/17/2017 4:51:23 PM
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm looking doing some calculations for a link that is currently 4.7
>>> miles effectively with M365 NanoBridges.
>>>
>>> The signal calculates out to -59 dBm, but in reality it is -71 dBm (12
>>> db loss through foliage).
>>>
>>> Is there a decent way to estimate what the equivalent foliage loss would
>>> be at 5 GHz?
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450M

[George Skorup]

AFAIK, the Cambium OEM cable gland is a specialty item produced by Lapp 
for Cambium. It doesn't even say Skintop on it. So it's not surprising 
that they're $30 a piece and only come in 10 packs. Ask your reseller. 
They might even have to order them for you.


An alternative, since I've had to order some for 450i aux ports, is the 
Lapp 52015810. It has the short base threads and rubber gasket, but not 
the flared body above the base like the OEM version. But it works 
perfectly fine at about 1/2 the price and you can get them from Allied, 
Mouser, Newark, etc. One nice thing about this particular model (6-13mm) 
is that you can fit an RJ-45 through rubber gland insert.


On 4/17/2017 7:16 PM, Tushar Patel wrote:

I agree with Adam, we have to be able to install out of the box.


Tushar


On Apr 17, 2017, at 6:10 PM, SmarterBroadband > wrote:


The 450M which has 3 ports only seems to come with one cable 
pass-through!!


Anyone know where I can buy extra of these metal pass-throughs?

Cambium, Please could you provide all 3 pass-throughs?  We should be 
able to install this out of the box without having to go and buy 
extras???


Thanks

Adam

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450M

[Tushar Patel]

I agree with Adam, we have to be able to install out of the box.


Tushar


> On Apr 17, 2017, at 6:10 PM, SmarterBroadband  wrote:
> 
> The 450M which has 3 ports only seems to come with one cable pass-through!!
>  
> Anyone know where I can buy extra of these metal pass-throughs?
>  
> Cambium, Please could you provide all 3 pass-throughs?  We should be able to 
> install this out of the box without having to go and buy extras???
>  
> Thanks
>  
> Adam

Re: [AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?

[Josh Luthman]

Honestly LinkPlanner is remarkable at calculating this.  Add in the trees
and set the right dBi for the antennas and you'll get a damn good guess.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:58 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> It will be worse at 5GHz, and that's all you need to know. These days  I
> would consider -71 dBm marginal, and anything worse is not something that I
> would want to start with.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 4/17/2017 1:51 PM, Christopher Gray wrote:
>
>> I'm looking doing some calculations for a link that is currently 4.7
>> miles effectively with M365 NanoBridges.
>>
>> The signal calculates out to -59 dBm, but in reality it is -71 dBm (12 db
>> loss through foliage).
>>
>> Is there a decent way to estimate what the equivalent foliage loss would
>> be at 5 GHz?
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?

[Bill Prince]

It will be worse at 5GHz, and that's all you need to know. These days  I 
would consider -71 dBm marginal, and anything worse is not something 
that I would want to start with.



bp


On 4/17/2017 1:51 PM, Christopher Gray wrote:
I'm looking doing some calculations for a link that is currently 4.7 
miles effectively with M365 NanoBridges.


The signal calculates out to -59 dBm, but in reality it is -71 dBm (12 
db loss through foliage).


Is there a decent way to estimate what the equivalent foliage loss 
would be at 5 GHz?

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Tecate

[dmmoffett]

I'm not gonna spit it out.  It's drinkable.  I do enjoy the miller high life, 
and the tecate is ok too.  Just saying I'm not gonna spam social media about it

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 17, 2017, at 5:50 PM, Jon Paul Kelley  wrote:
> 
> Tecate is what I drank when I went to Taos on vacation, during Spring Break. 
> Good stuff. Had to add it to my beer rotation.
>  
>  
>  
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 4:41 PM
> To: Animal Farm
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Tecate
>  
> Not a craft beer drinker...I have tried a few places in Temecula, Flagstaff, 
> Santa Fe, etcI like lagers and some pilsners ..Tecate is my favorite with 
> Modelo Especial and Dos XX..I also like Victoria, Pacifico and Carta 
> Blanca...I drank Fosters and Heineken for a while... But went back to 
> Tecate...We had an awesome cookout yesterday with Tecate and Miller 
> Tecate gone...Salud...
>  
> On Apr 17, 2017 3:29 PM, "Jeremy"  wrote:
> LMAO +1
>  
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> I was at the grocery store and I saw a 6-pack of Tecate in their beer cooler 
> nestled in among all the imports and craft brews.
>  
> Since Jamie is always talking about it I thought I should try some.  
>  
> Jamie:  This is not particularly good beer.  I'd put it somewhere in the 
> vicinity of Miller High Life.
> I guess I don't know how long it's been on the shelf, maybe it's not at the 
> peak of freshness.
>  
>  

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Tecate

[Jaime Solorza]

I don't like it...Have you tried Dos XX Agave (Blue label) and the seasonal
Noche Buena?  Both are bock'sI enjoy a Shinerbock Blonde once in a
whileDamn I am thirsty now...It's 89 degrees

On Apr 17, 2017 5:06 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:

> I also used to buy it by the keg.   hm  good days then..  My own
> kegger on the back deck above the boat on the hoist ready for a moments
> skiing...
>
> On 04/17/2017 04:03 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>
>> So what's peoples opinion of XX dark on this nefarious scale?  I don't
>> really care as I like it and that's good enough for me, but I do like
>> opinions...
>>
>> On 04/17/2017 02:28 PM, Jeremy wrote:
>>
>>> LMAO +1
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Adam Moffett >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> __
>>> I was at the grocery store and I saw a 6-pack of Tecate in their
>>> beer cooler nestled in among all the imports and craft brews.
>>>
>>> Since Jamie is always talking about it I thought I should try some.
>>>
>>> Jamie:  This is not particularly good beer.  I'd put it somewhere in
>>> the vicinity of Miller High Life.
>>> I guess I don't know how long it's been on the shelf, maybe it's not
>>> at the peak of freshness.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

[AFMUG] Cambium 450M

[SmarterBroadband]

The 450M which has 3 ports only seems to come with one cable pass-through!!

 

Anyone know where I can buy extra of these metal pass-throughs?

 

Cambium, Please could you provide all 3 pass-throughs?  We should be able to
install this out of the box without having to go and buy extras???

 

Thanks

 

Adam 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Tecate

[Robert Andrews]

I also used to buy it by the keg.   hm  good days then..  My own 
kegger on the back deck above the boat on the hoist ready for a moments 
skiing...


On 04/17/2017 04:03 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

So what's peoples opinion of XX dark on this nefarious scale?  I don't
really care as I like it and that's good enough for me, but I do like
opinions...

On 04/17/2017 02:28 PM, Jeremy wrote:

LMAO +1

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Adam Moffett > wrote:

__
I was at the grocery store and I saw a 6-pack of Tecate in their
beer cooler nestled in among all the imports and craft brews.

Since Jamie is always talking about it I thought I should try some.

Jamie:  This is not particularly good beer.  I'd put it somewhere in
the vicinity of Miller High Life.
I guess I don't know how long it's been on the shelf, maybe it's not
at the peak of freshness.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Tecate

[Robert Andrews]

So what's peoples opinion of XX dark on this nefarious scale?  I don't 
really care as I like it and that's good enough for me, but I do like 
opinions...


On 04/17/2017 02:28 PM, Jeremy wrote:

LMAO +1

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Adam Moffett > wrote:

__
I was at the grocery store and I saw a 6-pack of Tecate in their
beer cooler nestled in among all the imports and craft brews.

Since Jamie is always talking about it I thought I should try some.

Jamie:  This is not particularly good beer.  I'd put it somewhere in
the vicinity of Miller High Life.
I guess I don't know how long it's been on the shelf, maybe it's not
at the peak of freshness.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Tecate

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

My rankings:

1. Dos XX
2.  Modelo Especial
3.  Tecate

From my visits to Mexican Village in Detroit and later trips to Mexico. :-)

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

> On Apr 17, 2017, at 5:50 PM, Jon Paul Kelley  wrote:
> 
> Tecate is what I drank when I went to Taos on vacation, during Spring Break. 
> Good stuff. Had to add it to my beer rotation.
>  
>  
>  
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 4:41 PM
> To: Animal Farm
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Tecate
>  
> Not a craft beer drinker...I have tried a few places in Temecula, Flagstaff, 
> Santa Fe, etcI like lagers and some pilsners ..Tecate is my favorite with 
> Modelo Especial and Dos XX..I also like Victoria, Pacifico and Carta 
> Blanca...I drank Fosters and Heineken for a while... But went back to 
> Tecate...We had an awesome cookout yesterday with Tecate and Miller 
> Tecate gone...Salud...
>  
> On Apr 17, 2017 3:29 PM, "Jeremy"  wrote:
> LMAO +1
>  
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> I was at the grocery store and I saw a 6-pack of Tecate in their beer cooler 
> nestled in among all the imports and craft brews.
>  
> Since Jamie is always talking about it I thought I should try some.  
>  
> Jamie:  This is not particularly good beer.  I'd put it somewhere in the 
> vicinity of Miller High Life.
> I guess I don't know how long it's been on the shelf, maybe it's not at the 
> peak of freshness.
>  
>  

Re: [AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?

[Chuck McCown]

The boys down in the Southern Yellow Pine parts of the world say that pine is 
worse than other types of trees.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 3:56 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?

I don't think there really is such a thing as typical loss through trees... 
there are way too many variables to be able reliably calculate anything, in my 
experience. But it's a pretty good bet that 5ghz will be worse although if 
it's a PTP link, you do have the benefit of being able to use a lot more TX 
power with 5ghz, so you might be able to make up for the additional loss.


On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

  5GHz through trees?  100% loss at that range.  Seriously, I don't know, but 
I'd be willing to bet that is not going to work well at all.

  On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

for 3.65ghz I've been told 125db / km is typical loss through trees.  So I 
guess if that's true in your case then you've got 100m or so of trees to get 
through.

I do not know the equivalent number for 5.8ghz.  Maybe somebody else can 
fill in the blank.




-- Original Message --
From: "Christopher Gray" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 4/17/2017 4:51:23 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?

  I'm looking doing some calculations for a link that is currently 4.7 
miles effectively with M365 NanoBridges.  

  The signal calculates out to -59 dBm, but in reality it is -71 dBm (12 db 
loss through foliage).

  Is there a decent way to estimate what the equivalent foliage loss would 
be at 5 GHz?

Re: [AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?

[Mathew Howard]

I don't think there really is such a thing as typical loss through trees...
there are way too many variables to be able reliably calculate anything, in
my experience. But it's a pretty good bet that 5ghz will be worse
although if it's a PTP link, you do have the benefit of being able to use a
lot more TX power with 5ghz, so you might be able to make up for the
additional loss.

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

> 5GHz through trees?  100% loss at that range.  Seriously, I don't know,
> but I'd be willing to bet that is not going to work well at all.
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> for 3.65ghz I've been told 125db / km is typical loss through trees.  So
>> I guess if that's true in your case then you've got 100m or so of trees to
>> get through.
>>
>> I do not know the equivalent number for 5.8ghz.  Maybe somebody else can
>> fill in the blank.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Christopher Gray" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 4/17/2017 4:51:23 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?
>>
>> I'm looking doing some calculations for a link that is currently 4.7
>> miles effectively with M365 NanoBridges.
>>
>> The signal calculates out to -59 dBm, but in reality it is -71 dBm (12 db
>> loss through foliage).
>>
>> Is there a decent way to estimate what the equivalent foliage loss would
>> be at 5 GHz?
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?

[Jaime Solorza]

I have several 5GHz links going through Pecan Farms...I am sure some are
skimming over the trees...This year will be a good test if two of them
start having issues...That said...I know at short distance it will work...

On Apr 17, 2017 3:27 PM, "Jeremy"  wrote:

> 5GHz through trees?  100% loss at that range.  Seriously, I don't know,
> but I'd be willing to bet that is not going to work well at all.
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> for 3.65ghz I've been told 125db / km is typical loss through trees.  So
>> I guess if that's true in your case then you've got 100m or so of trees to
>> get through.
>>
>> I do not know the equivalent number for 5.8ghz.  Maybe somebody else can
>> fill in the blank.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Christopher Gray" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 4/17/2017 4:51:23 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?
>>
>> I'm looking doing some calculations for a link that is currently 4.7
>> miles effectively with M365 NanoBridges.
>>
>> The signal calculates out to -59 dBm, but in reality it is -71 dBm (12 db
>> loss through foliage).
>>
>> Is there a decent way to estimate what the equivalent foliage loss would
>> be at 5 GHz?
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Tecate

[Jon Paul Kelley]

Tecate is what I drank when I went to Taos on vacation, during Spring Break. 
Good stuff. Had to add it to my beer rotation.

 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 4:41 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Tecate

 

Not a craft beer drinker...I have tried a few places in Temecula, Flagstaff, 
Santa Fe, etcI like lagers and some pilsners ..Tecate is my favorite with 
Modelo Especial and Dos XX..I also like Victoria, Pacifico and Carta Blanca...I 
drank Fosters and Heineken for a while... But went back to Tecate...We had an 
awesome cookout yesterday with Tecate and Miller Tecate gone...Salud...

 

On Apr 17, 2017 3:29 PM, "Jeremy"  wrote:

LMAO +1

 

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

I was at the grocery store and I saw a 6-pack of Tecate in their beer cooler 
nestled in among all the imports and craft brews.

 

Since Jamie is always talking about it I thought I should try some.  

 

Jamie:  This is not particularly good beer.  I'd put it somewhere in the 
vicinity of Miller High Life.

I guess I don't know how long it's been on the shelf, maybe it's not at the 
peak of freshness.

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Tecate

[Cameron Crum]

Yeah, I'd probably take Tecate, or even a Corona at a cookout over anything
by BMC.

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:41 PM, Jay Weekley 
wrote:

> Them's fightin' words.
>
>
> Adam Moffett wrote:
>
>> I was at the grocery store and I saw a 6-pack of Tecate in their beer
>> cooler nestled in among all the imports and craft brews.
>>
>> Since Jamie is always talking about it I thought I should try some.
>>
>> Jamie:  This is not particularly good beer.  I'd put it somewhere in the
>> vicinity of Miller High Life.
>> I guess I don't know how long it's been on the shelf, maybe it's not at
>> the peak of freshness.
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Af24hd front cover

[Tyler Treat]

Kinda what I figured.  Thanks!

___
Mangled by my iPhone.
___
Tyler Treat
tyler.tr...@cornbelttech.com
___


> On Apr 17, 2017, at 4:45 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> First one I ever had did this.  They are held on by some kind of RTV.  Just 
> scrape it out and put in new stuff.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Tyler Treat
> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 3:43 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Af24hd front cover
> 
> Have a friend who had the front cover on an AF24hd come off on a rooftop 
> install, so luckily he was able to find it.   Is there a good way to keep it 
> attached?
> 
> ___
> Mangled by my iPhone.
> ___
> Tyler Treat
> tyler.tr...@cornbelttech.com
> ___
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Af24hd front cover

[Chuck McCown]

First one I ever had did this.  They are held on by some kind of RTV.  Just 
scrape it out and put in new stuff.


-Original Message- 
From: Tyler Treat

Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 3:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Af24hd front cover

Have a friend who had the front cover on an AF24hd come off on a rooftop 
install, so luckily he was able to find it.   Is there a good way to keep it 
attached?


___
Mangled by my iPhone.
___
Tyler Treat
tyler.tr...@cornbelttech.com
___

[AFMUG] Af24hd front cover

[Tyler Treat]

Have a friend who had the front cover on an AF24hd come off on a rooftop 
install, so luckily he was able to find it.   Is there a good way to keep it 
attached?

___
Mangled by my iPhone.
___
Tyler Treat
tyler.tr...@cornbelttech.com
___

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Tecate

[Jay Weekley]

Them's fightin' words.

Adam Moffett wrote:
I was at the grocery store and I saw a 6-pack of Tecate in their beer 
cooler nestled in among all the imports and craft brews.


Since Jamie is always talking about it I thought I should try some.

Jamie:  This is not particularly good beer.  I'd put it somewhere in 
the vicinity of Miller High Life.
I guess I don't know how long it's been on the shelf, maybe it's not 
at the peak of freshness.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Tecate

[Jeremy]

LMAO +1

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I was at the grocery store and I saw a 6-pack of Tecate in their beer
> cooler nestled in among all the imports and craft brews.
>
> Since Jamie is always talking about it I thought I should try some.
>
> Jamie:  This is not particularly good beer.  I'd put it somewhere in the
> vicinity of Miller High Life.
> I guess I don't know how long it's been on the shelf, maybe it's not at
> the peak of freshness.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Tecate

[Cameron Crum]

If you are a craft beer drinker, Mexican Lagers probably won't suit your
pallet. They are good for high volume quaffing at a cookout or a day at the
lake. though.

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I was at the grocery store and I saw a 6-pack of Tecate in their beer
> cooler nestled in among all the imports and craft brews.
>
> Since Jamie is always talking about it I thought I should try some.
>
> Jamie:  This is not particularly good beer.  I'd put it somewhere in the
> vicinity of Miller High Life.
> I guess I don't know how long it's been on the shelf, maybe it's not at
> the peak of freshness.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?

[Jeremy]

5GHz through trees?  100% loss at that range.  Seriously, I don't know, but
I'd be willing to bet that is not going to work well at all.

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> for 3.65ghz I've been told 125db / km is typical loss through trees.  So I
> guess if that's true in your case then you've got 100m or so of trees to
> get through.
>
> I do not know the equivalent number for 5.8ghz.  Maybe somebody else can
> fill in the blank.
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Christopher Gray" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 4/17/2017 4:51:23 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?
>
> I'm looking doing some calculations for a link that is currently 4.7 miles
> effectively with M365 NanoBridges.
>
> The signal calculates out to -59 dBm, but in reality it is -71 dBm (12 db
> loss through foliage).
>
> Is there a decent way to estimate what the equivalent foliage loss would
> be at 5 GHz?
>
>

[AFMUG] OT: Tecate

[Adam Moffett]

I was at the grocery store and I saw a 6-pack of Tecate in their beer 
cooler nestled in among all the imports and craft brews.


Since Jamie is always talking about it I thought I should try some.

Jamie:  This is not particularly good beer.  I'd put it somewhere in the 
vicinity of Miller High Life.
I guess I don't know how long it's been on the shelf, maybe it's not at 
the peak of freshness.

Re: [AFMUG] Butterfly Drop Cable

[Adam Moffett]

Wow.  I guess it's more like $0.02 - 0.03/ft on Alibaba if I can meet 
somebody's MOQ.



-- Original Message --
From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 4/17/2017 5:17:24 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Butterfly Drop Cable

That is manufactured by probably twenty different companies in China 
and re-sold by at least 50 vendors. If you go to Alibaba and search for 
"FTTH drop cable" you will see a product with the exact same cross 
section diagram being sold by a ton of resellers.



On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 2:13 PM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:
A vendor just sent me a sample of what they call a "butteryfly" drop 
cable.


It's dirt friggin cheap.  Like $0.09/foot.  Hopefully my little 
picture comes through.


The steel measures .042" dia which is somewhere around 18AWG.

You can get it with 1 or 2 bare fibers, and you access them by peeling 
apart the two aramid strength members.


The cheapness is tantalizing.  Will I regret this vs a "normal" flat 
drop cable like Superior Essex or Corning?  They put corning glass 
inside the jacket so I'm not worried about the optical performance, 
but I'm wondering if it's rugged enough.

Re: [AFMUG] Butterfly Drop Cable

[Eric Kuhnke]

That is manufactured by probably twenty different companies in China and
re-sold by at least 50 vendors. If you go to Alibaba and search for "FTTH
drop cable" you will see a product with the exact same cross section
diagram being sold by a ton of resellers.


On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 2:13 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> A vendor just sent me a sample of what they call a "butteryfly" drop cable.
>
> It's dirt friggin cheap.  Like $0.09/foot.  Hopefully my little picture
> comes through.
>
> The steel measures .042" dia which is somewhere around 18AWG.
>
> You can get it with 1 or 2 bare fibers, and you access them by peeling
> apart the two aramid strength members.
>
> The cheapness is tantalizing.  Will I regret this vs a "normal" flat drop
> cable like Superior Essex or Corning?  They put corning glass inside the
> jacket so I'm not worried about the optical performance, but I'm wondering
> if it's rugged enough.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Butterfly Drop Cable

[Adam Moffett]

No gel.  I think they rely on the fiber being buried in plastic.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Sent: 4/17/2017 5:14:56 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Butterfly Drop Cable


No gel?

From:Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 3:14 PM
To:Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Butterfly Drop Cable

Cross section from their spec sheet:


-- Original Message --
From: "Adam Moffett" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Sent: 4/17/2017 5:13:36 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Butterfly Drop Cable

A vendor just sent me a sample of what they call a "butteryfly" drop 
cable.


It's dirt friggin cheap.  Like $0.09/foot.  Hopefully my little 
picture comes through.


The steel measures .042" dia which is somewhere around 18AWG.

You can get it with 1 or 2 bare fibers, and you access them by peeling 
apart the two aramid strength members.


The cheapness is tantalizing.  Will I regret this vs a "normal" flat 
drop cable like Superior Essex or Corning?  They put corning glass 
inside the jacket so I'm not worried about the optical performance, 
but I'm wondering if it's rugged enough.

Re: [AFMUG] Butterfly Drop Cable

[Adam Moffett]

Cross section from their spec sheet:


-- Original Message --
From: "Adam Moffett" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Sent: 4/17/2017 5:13:36 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Butterfly Drop Cable

A vendor just sent me a sample of what they call a "butteryfly" drop 
cable.


It's dirt friggin cheap.  Like $0.09/foot.  Hopefully my little picture 
comes through.


The steel measures .042" dia which is somewhere around 18AWG.

You can get it with 1 or 2 bare fibers, and you access them by peeling 
apart the two aramid strength members.


The cheapness is tantalizing.  Will I regret this vs a "normal" flat 
drop cable like Superior Essex or Corning?  They put corning glass 
inside the jacket so I'm not worried about the optical performance, but 
I'm wondering if it's rugged enough.

Re: [AFMUG] Butterfly Drop Cable

[Chuck McCown]

No gel?

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 3:14 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Butterfly Drop Cable

Cross section from their spec sheet:
 


-- Original Message --
From: "Adam Moffett" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Sent: 4/17/2017 5:13:36 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Butterfly Drop Cable

  A vendor just sent me a sample of what they call a "butteryfly" drop cable. 

  It's dirt friggin cheap.  Like $0.09/foot.  Hopefully my little picture comes 
through.  

  The steel measures .042" dia which is somewhere around 18AWG.  

  You can get it with 1 or 2 bare fibers, and you access them by peeling apart 
the two aramid strength members.


  The cheapness is tantalizing.  Will I regret this vs a "normal" flat drop 
cable like Superior Essex or Corning?  They put corning glass inside the jacket 
so I'm not worried about the optical performance, but I'm wondering if it's 
rugged enough.

Re: [AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?

[Adam Moffett]

for 3.65ghz I've been told 125db / km is typical loss through trees.  So 
I guess if that's true in your case then you've got 100m or so of trees 
to get through.


I do not know the equivalent number for 5.8ghz.  Maybe somebody else can 
fill in the blank.





-- Original Message --
From: "Christopher Gray" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 4/17/2017 4:51:23 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?

I'm looking doing some calculations for a link that is currently 4.7 
miles effectively with M365 NanoBridges.


The signal calculates out to -59 dBm, but in reality it is -71 dBm (12 
db loss through foliage).


Is there a decent way to estimate what the equivalent foliage loss 
would be at 5 GHz?

[AFMUG] Equivalent Loss When Moving NLOS from 3 to 5 GHz?

[Christopher Gray]

I'm looking doing some calculations for a link that is currently 4.7 miles
effectively with M365 NanoBridges.

The signal calculates out to -59 dBm, but in reality it is -71 dBm (12 db
loss through foliage).

Is there a decent way to estimate what the equivalent foliage loss would be
at 5 GHz?

Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 vs 450i 3GHz?

[Sean Heskett]

oh yeah and the improved filters...i knew i was forgetting something!

thanks george!

-Sean


On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 2:32 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> We upgraded a 5GHz AP that was running into the PPS limit. But not only
> that, the Rx filter improved the uplinks quite a bit. And actually, the
> downlinks improved as well. The 450i overall is "improved" which is what
> the "i" actually means, BTW.
>
> On 4/17/2017 2:24 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>
> Same as the other bands, basically more packets per second processing and
> the hardened industrial case.
>
> -Sean
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:52 AM Jon Langeler 
> wrote:
>
>> Any significant advantages?
>>
>> Jon Langeler
>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 vs 450i 3GHz?

[George Skorup]

We upgraded a 5GHz AP that was running into the PPS limit. But not only 
that, the Rx filter improved the uplinks quite a bit. And actually, the 
downlinks improved as well. The 450i overall is "improved" which is what 
the "i" actually means, BTW.


On 4/17/2017 2:24 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
Same as the other bands, basically more packets per second processing 
and the hardened industrial case.


-Sean


On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:52 AM Jon Langeler 
> wrote:


Any significant advantages?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

Re: [AFMUG] Verizon Email to Text Gateway

[Nate Burke]

I think about 1/2 the texts are coming through.  Ups self tests completed 
email. But not the starting self test etc. 

On April 17, 2017 10:41:19 AM CDT, Robert Andrews  
wrote:
>I just used it to send texts to/from so it works in some way...
>
>On 04/17/2017 07:27 AM, George Skorup wrote:
>> From one of my BIND servers exiting one upstream, I'm seeing...
>> smtpin01.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.202.0.158 = PTR
>> vzwgw5003a.a.cloudfilter.net
>> smtpin02.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.36.60.220 = PTR
>> vzwgw6003a.a.cloudfilter.net
>>
>> Another exiting another upstream...
>> smtpin01.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.202.0.158 = PTR
>> vzwgw5003a.a.cloudfilter.net
>> smtpin02.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.10.83.138 = PTR
>> vzwgw6002a.a.cloudfilter.net
>>
>> And yet another...
>> smtpin01.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.16.175.197 = PTR
>> vzwgw5001a.a.cloudfilter.net
>> smtpin02.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.11.98.232 = PTR
>> vzwgw6001a.a.cloudfilter.net
>>
>> And a slightly different response when using 8.8.8.8.
>>
>> I'm sure these are all hitting different load-balancers coming in on
>> different peers of theirs. So this is probably a case where it
>wouldn't
>> be a terrible idea to use 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 as tertiary resolvers
>at
>> least on your monitoring systems.
>>
>> On 4/17/2017 7:57 AM, Andy Trimmell wrote:
>>> Both of those addresses report as down.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>>> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 8:49 AM
>>> To: Animal Farm
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Verizon Email to Text Gateway
>>>
>>> I didn't want tho post this over on the Outages list, since I hadn't
>>> seen anything there, I figured it is just me, but you guys are
>cooler
>>> to tell me that it's just my problem.
>>>
>>> I'm getting errors starting yesterday trying to email
>>> phonenum...@vtext.com  some messages are going through, but most are
>>> not.  I'm not getting rejections, just this SMTP Reply, so they sit
>in
>>> my outbound queue.
>>>
>>> DNS query 'vtext.com' 0 (2) [OK - 2]
>>> Connecting to 'smtpin01.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net'
>>> 421 vzw-ibgw-5002a.stratus.cloudmark.com cmsmtp ESMTP server
>>> temporarily not available
>>>
>>> Anyone else seeing Verizon Email to text issues.
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Paul McCall]

This looks like a decent approach, have to give it more thought.  I would have 
to do it per customer Mikrotik, because if a customer WANTS to get all his 
updates during the day, and feels he has the BW to pull it off, I can't cripple 
him by "group"

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Wireless Administrator
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 3:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

And then all was quiet on the thread ..

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 2:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

Seth says that he is seeing this download going to his akamai servers, that 
makes it a much harder nut to crack...

On 04/17/2017 11:17 AM, Wireless Administrator wrote:
> Paul,
>
> The IP addresses used by Microsoft for windows updates are a moving 
> target but there are relatively easy ways to get this situation under
> control .   Give this a try:
>
>
>
> � Use a packet trace tool to Identify the host names used for
> windows update.
>
> � Current Mikrotik Router OS supports address Lists using
> Dynamic Names.  (Cool feature that allows you to use host name and OS 
> updates address list with current IPs)
>
> � Create simple Queue(s) to control traffic.
>
> � Use time of day on Queue if you prefer.
>
>
>
> Game over, you�re the winner �..
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
> *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 11:16 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild
>
>
>
> What are you guys doing to control Windows 10 update from downloading 
> updates whenever it wants to?  Windows used to have a setting for when 
> it would download and install, and now that setting (IF have you have 
> access to the Group Policy editor - some Win versions supposedly don') 
> only allows defining when it will INSTALL the updates and not when it 
> downloads them.  You can make the update process manual I think 
> through settings,  but customers won't ever update then, introducing 
> other issues.  So, that isnt a great workaround.  You can also set an 
> interface to �metered� which means it won�t DL until it gets an 
> unmetered connection but that won�t help either.
>
> Today 3 customers (plus my PC) were killing an AP, all connected to 
> Microsoft presumably downloading updates as mine was from that IP.
> That is what my PC was doing when I caught the problem.  All customers 
> and myself were connected to the same MS IP address.
>
> Even if customers had access to GPEDIT, and if it had that ability, 
> talking customers through that would have been a not fun job for tech 
> support for all the Win10 devices out there now.  Supposedly, not all 
> versions of Win 10 have access to GPEDIT easily.  GPEDIT does have a 
> setting for maximum DL for updates which helps but that would only 
> slow things down for a lng time to get updaes.  Much better to 
> have it do full updates after midnight.
>
> Was wondering if there was something that could be defined at the 
> customers CPE Mikrotik (in place at 95% of our customers) or at the 
> tower Mikrotik.
>
> There has to be some solution.
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net 
>
> www.pdmnet.com 
>
> www.floridabroadband.com 
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Wireless Administrator]

And then all was quiet on the thread ..

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 2:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

Seth says that he is seeing this download going to his akamai servers, that
makes it a much harder nut to crack...

On 04/17/2017 11:17 AM, Wireless Administrator wrote:
> Paul,
>
> The IP addresses used by Microsoft for windows updates are a moving 
> target but there are relatively easy ways to get this situation under
> control .   Give this a try:
>
>
>
> � Use a packet trace tool to Identify the host names used for
> windows update.
>
> � Current Mikrotik Router OS supports address Lists using
> Dynamic Names.  (Cool feature that allows you to use host name and OS 
> updates address list with current IPs)
>
> � Create simple Queue(s) to control traffic.
>
> � Use time of day on Queue if you prefer.
>
>
>
> Game over, you�re the winner �..
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
> *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 11:16 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild
>
>
>
> What are you guys doing to control Windows 10 update from downloading 
> updates whenever it wants to?  Windows used to have a setting for when 
> it would download and install, and now that setting (IF have you have 
> access to the Group Policy editor - some Win versions supposedly don') 
> only allows defining when it will INSTALL the updates and not when it 
> downloads them.  You can make the update process manual I think 
> through settings,  but customers won't ever update then, introducing 
> other issues.  So, that isnt a great workaround.  You can also set an 
> interface to �metered� which means it won�t DL until it gets an 
> unmetered connection but that won�t help either.
>
> Today 3 customers (plus my PC) were killing an AP, all connected to 
> Microsoft presumably downloading updates as mine was from that IP.  
> That is what my PC was doing when I caught the problem.  All customers 
> and myself were connected to the same MS IP address.
>
> Even if customers had access to GPEDIT, and if it had that ability, 
> talking customers through that would have been a not fun job for tech 
> support for all the Win10 devices out there now.  Supposedly, not all 
> versions of Win 10 have access to GPEDIT easily.  GPEDIT does have a 
> setting for maximum DL for updates which helps but that would only 
> slow things down for a lng time to get updaes.  Much better to 
> have it do full updates after midnight.
>
> Was wondering if there was something that could be defined at the 
> customers CPE Mikrotik (in place at 95% of our customers) or at the 
> tower Mikrotik.
>
> There has to be some solution.
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net 
>
> www.pdmnet.com 
>
> www.floridabroadband.com 
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PMP450 vs 450i 3GHz?

[Sean Heskett]

Same as the other bands, basically more packets per second processing and
the hardened industrial case.

-Sean


On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:52 AM Jon Langeler 
wrote:

> Any significant advantages?
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Wireless Administrator]

Akamai IP's but unique to Microsoft updates from our experience.

Procera, Sandvine, etc .

CheckMate.  I win always!

Steve 

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 2:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

Seth says that he is seeing this download going to his akamai servers, that
makes it a much harder nut to crack...

On 04/17/2017 11:17 AM, Wireless Administrator wrote:
> Paul,
>
> The IP addresses used by Microsoft for windows updates are a moving 
> target but there are relatively easy ways to get this situation under
> control .   Give this a try:
>
>
>
> � Use a packet trace tool to Identify the host names used for
> windows update.
>
> � Current Mikrotik Router OS supports address Lists using
> Dynamic Names.  (Cool feature that allows you to use host name and OS 
> updates address list with current IPs)
>
> � Create simple Queue(s) to control traffic.
>
> � Use time of day on Queue if you prefer.
>
>
>
> Game over, you�re the winner �..
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
> *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 11:16 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild
>
>
>
> What are you guys doing to control Windows 10 update from downloading 
> updates whenever it wants to?  Windows used to have a setting for when 
> it would download and install, and now that setting (IF have you have 
> access to the Group Policy editor - some Win versions supposedly don') 
> only allows defining when it will INSTALL the updates and not when it 
> downloads them.  You can make the update process manual I think 
> through settings,  but customers won't ever update then, introducing 
> other issues.  So, that isnt a great workaround.  You can also set an 
> interface to �metered� which means it won�t DL until it gets an 
> unmetered connection but that won�t help either.
>
> Today 3 customers (plus my PC) were killing an AP, all connected to 
> Microsoft presumably downloading updates as mine was from that IP.  
> That is what my PC was doing when I caught the problem.  All customers 
> and myself were connected to the same MS IP address.
>
> Even if customers had access to GPEDIT, and if it had that ability, 
> talking customers through that would have been a not fun job for tech 
> support for all the Win10 devices out there now.  Supposedly, not all 
> versions of Win 10 have access to GPEDIT easily.  GPEDIT does have a 
> setting for maximum DL for updates which helps but that would only 
> slow things down for a lng time to get updaes.  Much better to 
> have it do full updates after midnight.
>
> Was wondering if there was something that could be defined at the 
> customers CPE Mikrotik (in place at 95% of our customers) or at the 
> tower Mikrotik.
>
> There has to be some solution.
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net 
>
> www.pdmnet.com 
>
> www.floridabroadband.com 
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Robert Andrews]

Seth says that he is seeing this download going to his akamai servers, 
that makes it a much harder nut to crack...


On 04/17/2017 11:17 AM, Wireless Administrator wrote:

Paul,

The IP addresses used by Microsoft for windows updates are a moving
target but there are relatively easy ways to get this situation under
control .   Give this a try:



� Use a packet trace tool to Identify the host names used for
windows update.

� Current Mikrotik Router OS supports address Lists using
Dynamic Names.  (Cool feature that allows you to use host name and OS
updates address list with current IPs)

� Create simple Queue(s) to control traffic.

� Use time of day on Queue if you prefer.



Game over, you�re the winner �..



Steve





*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
*Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 11:16 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild



What are you guys doing to control Windows 10 update from downloading
updates whenever it wants to?  Windows used to have a setting for when
it would download and install, and now that setting (IF have you have
access to the Group Policy editor - some Win versions supposedly don')
only allows defining when it will INSTALL the updates and not when it
downloads them.  You can make the update process manual I think through
settings,  but customers won't ever update then, introducing other
issues.  So, that isnt a great workaround.  You can also set an
interface to �metered� which means it won�t DL until it gets an
unmetered connection but that won�t help either.

Today 3 customers (plus my PC) were killing an AP, all connected to
Microsoft presumably downloading updates as mine was from that IP.  That
is what my PC was doing when I caught the problem.  All customers and
myself were connected to the same MS IP address.

Even if customers had access to GPEDIT, and if it had that ability,
talking customers through that would have been a not fun job for tech
support for all the Win10 devices out there now.  Supposedly, not all
versions of Win 10 have access to GPEDIT easily.  GPEDIT does have a
setting for maximum DL for updates which helps but that would only slow
things down for a lng time to get updaes.  Much better to have it do
full updates after midnight.

Was wondering if there was something that could be defined at the
customers CPE Mikrotik (in place at 95% of our customers) or at the
tower Mikrotik.

There has to be some solution.



Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800

pa...@pdmnet.net 

www.pdmnet.com 

www.floridabroadband.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Wireless Administrator]

Paul,

The IP addresses used by Microsoft for windows updates are a moving target
but there are relatively easy ways to get this situation under control .
Give this a try:

 

. Use a packet trace tool to Identify the host names used for
windows update.

. Current Mikrotik Router OS supports address Lists using Dynamic
Names.  (Cool feature that allows you to use host name and OS updates
address list with current IPs)

. Create simple Queue(s) to control traffic.

. Use time of day on Queue if you prefer.

 

Game over, you're the winner ...

 

Steve

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Paul McCall
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 11:16 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

 

What are you guys doing to control Windows 10 update from downloading
updates whenever it wants to?  Windows used to have a setting for when it
would download and install, and now that setting (IF have you have access to
the Group Policy editor - some Win versions supposedly don') only allows
defining when it will INSTALL the updates and not when it downloads them.
You can make the update process manual I think through settings,  but
customers won't ever update then, introducing other issues.  So, that isnt a
great workaround.  You can also set an interface to "metered" which means it
won't DL until it gets an unmetered connection but that won't help either.  

Today 3 customers (plus my PC) were killing an AP, all connected to
Microsoft presumably downloading updates as mine was from that IP.  That is
what my PC was doing when I caught the problem.  All customers and myself
were connected to the same MS IP address.

Even if customers had access to GPEDIT, and if it had that ability, talking
customers through that would have been a not fun job for tech support for
all the Win10 devices out there now.  Supposedly, not all versions of Win 10
have access to GPEDIT easily.  GPEDIT does have a setting for maximum DL for
updates which helps but that would only slow things down for a lng time
to get updaes.  Much better to have it do full updates after midnight.

Was wondering if there was something that could be defined at the customers
CPE Mikrotik (in place at 95% of our customers) or at the tower Mikrotik.

There has to be some solution.

 

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800  

pa...@pdmnet.net

www.pdmnet.com

www.floridabroadband.com

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Adam Moffett]

A scriptthat's an idea for Paul's question.  Email the user a vb 
script which changes the settings for them.



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 4/17/2017 1:10:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild


Interesting.  I did not know that was in there.
So you just write a script to turn it on and off with icons to trigger 
it... hmmm.


From:Paul McCall
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 11:08 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

Metered means the Updates won’t DL on that connection.  Period.  You 
can then unmeter it when you want to DL.




Separately, you can also tell how much BW you want to use (in Kb) or by 
a % (not sure how it figures that you).  But that is by that one 
device.  AND, requires GPEDIT and requires smart uses AND requires 
time.  So, works for your own concerns but not as an ISP wise solution




From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 1:05 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild



So all your browsing, downloading, streaming etc is metered?  What 
speed do you give yourself?




From: Bill Prince

Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 11:02 AM

To:af@afmug.com

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild



Is this the so-called "Creator's Update"?

I have for a long time set all my ethernet connection to "metered" via 
a registry hack. I leave the WiFi connection turned off, except when I 
want updates to run. It works for me, as it leaves me in charge of 
exactly when the updates run.




bp


On 4/17/2017 8:15 AM, Paul McCall wrote:

What are you guys doing to control Windows 10 update from downloading 
updates whenever it wants to?� Windows used to have a setting for 
when it would download and install, and now that setting (IF have you 
have access to the Group Policy editor - some Win versions supposedly 
don') only allows defining when it will INSTALL the updates and not 
when it downloads them.� You can make the update process manual I 
think through settings,� but customers won't ever update then, 
introducing other issues.� So, that isnt a great workaround.� You 
can also set an interface to �metered� which means it won�t DL 
until it gets an unmetered connection but that won�t help either.�


Today 3 customers (plus my PC) were killing an AP, all connected to 
Microsoft presumably downloading updates as mine was from that IP.� 
That is what my PC was doing when I caught the problem.� All 
customers and myself were connected to the same MS IP address.


Even if customers had access to GPEDIT, and if it had that ability, 
talking customers through that would have been a not fun job for tech 
support for all the Win10 devices out there now.� Supposedly, not 
all versions of Win 10 have access to GPEDIT easily.� GPEDIT does 
have a setting for maximum DL for updates which helps but that would 
only slow things down for a lng time to get updaes.� Much better 
to have it do full updates after midnight.


Was wondering if there was something that could be defined at the 
customers CPE Mikrotik (in place at 95% of our customers) or at the 
tower Mikrotik.


There has to be some solution.

�

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800�

pa...@pdmnet.net

www.pdmnet.com

www.floridabroadband.com

�

�

[AFMUG] PMP450 vs 450i 3GHz?

[Jon Langeler]

Any significant advantages?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Bill Prince]

Excellent way to illustrate the difference between bandwidth and latency.


bp


On 4/17/2017 10:21 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Very high res...
*From:* Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 11:20 AM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer
I like it, you may be on to something. So we basically just need to 
convince the gamers to become good old fashioned bums that ride around 
on freight trains all day...

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 12:07 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Gamers have to actually get in a RR car and physically fight. 
Much more realistic and very low latency.

*From:* Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 11:06 AM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer
The gamers won't like the latency at all...
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Chuck McCown 
wrote:

Time to invest in RR stock.  Screw fiber.
*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 10:33 AM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer
Well, assuming that the rail was moving at a similar speed to
the trucks - say 60MPH, And the rail cars were ~60 feet in
length, and had the same volume as the 53 foot truck.
60MPH = 316,800 FPH / 60 Feet = 5280 Railcars per hour, 88
railcars per minute, 1.4 rail cars per second.
Once the first one arrived, you'd have a continous feed of
26857.6Pbit/S
Get to work on the automatic tape transcription device.  You
only need to write ~557,136 tapes per second, and don't forget
loading them on the train...
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Chuck McCown
 wrote:

No, what would it be if you had continuous railcar
transport??? We could eliminate all the fiber with railroads!
*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 10:15 AM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer
Chicago to LA is 30 hours by truck.
Typical 53 foot trailer is 3816 cubic feet.
A LTO-7 tape can hold 6TB
The volume of a LTO-7 tape is just under 0.01 cubic foot
(0.00839973) We'll use 0.01 cubic foot.
A 53 foot trailer packed completely full can hold 381600
Tapes X 6TB = 2,289,600TB, or 2289 PB.
2,289,600TB/30hours = 76320TB/hr.
or
1272TB/min
or
21.2TB/sec.
or
169.6Tbit/second.
On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Robert Andrews
 wrote:

I can't remember which but there was a nanog
presentation a few years ago about max bandwidth and
the top of the chart was still listed as a 747 cargo
full of optical media..   Now as far as getting that
data on and off the media

On 04/17/2017 07:36 AM, Forrest Christian (List
Account) wrote:

For the seed you need to understand this quote:

"/Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station
wagon full of tapes
hurtling down the highway/." —Tanenbaum, Andrew S.
(1989). Computer
Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. p. 57. ISBN
0-13-166836-6.

I'd highly recommend you think about how to move
that seed via Fedex or
UPS.You're already going to be storing the
data somewhere, if
possible, take whatever it is your storing it on
(or backing it up on)
to the origin location and copy it to it
*then* ship it to and
install it in your datacenter. It is likely that
the cost of doing
this will actually be less than the cost of buying
a circuit which will
do this in a reasonable amount of time, especially
if you are buying a
piece of hardware to store this data (likely).

For the updates,  4pb per year is just over 1Mb/s
if I did the math
correctly   This is in the realm of normal
internet, assuming the
data grows gradually throughout a year.

I'll let others point you toward a 10Gig wave if
you'd rather not use
the "move media" approach.


On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Zach Underwood

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Chuck McCown]

Very high res...

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 11:20 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

I like it, you may be on to something. So we basically just need to convince 
the gamers to become good old fashioned bums that ride around on freight trains 
all day...


On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 12:07 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Gamers have to actually get in a RR car and physically fight.  Much more 
realistic and very low latency.  

  From: Mathew Howard 
  Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 11:06 AM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

  The gamers won't like the latency at all...


  On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Time to invest in RR stock.  Screw fiber.  

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 10:33 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

Well, assuming that the rail was moving at a similar speed to the trucks - 
say 60MPH, And the rail cars were ~60 feet in length, and had the same volume 
as the 53 foot truck. 

60MPH = 316,800 FPH / 60 Feet = 5280 Railcars per hour, 88 railcars per 
minute, 1.4 rail cars per second.

Once the first one arrived, you'd have a continous feed of 26857.6Pbit/S

Get to work on the automatic tape transcription device.  You only need to 
write ~557,136 tapes per second, and don't forget loading them on the train...



On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  No, what would it be if you had continuous railcar transport???  We could 
eliminate all the fiber with railroads!

  From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
  Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 10:15 AM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

  Chicago to LA is 30 hours by truck. 

  Typical 53 foot trailer is 3816 cubic feet.

  A LTO-7 tape can hold 6TB
  The volume of a LTO-7 tape is just under 0.01 cubic foot (0.00839973) 
 We'll use 0.01 cubic foot.

  A 53 foot trailer packed completely full can hold 381600 Tapes X 6TB = 
2,289,600TB, or 2289 PB.

  2,289,600TB/30hours = 76320TB/hr.
  or
  1272TB/min
  or
  21.2TB/sec.
  or
  169.6Tbit/second.






  On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Robert Andrews  
wrote:

I can't remember which but there was a nanog presentation a few years 
ago about max bandwidth and the top of the chart was still listed as a 747 
cargo full of optical media..   Now as far as getting that data on and off the 
media

On 04/17/2017 07:36 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

  For the seed you need to understand this quote:

  "/Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
  hurtling down the highway/." —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989). Computer
  Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. p. 57. ISBN 0-13-166836-6.

  I'd highly recommend you think about how to move that seed via Fedex 
or
  UPS.You're already going to be storing the data somewhere, if
  possible, take whatever it is your storing it on (or backing it up on)
  to the origin location and copy it to it *then* ship it to and
  install it in your datacenter.   It is likely that the cost of doing
  this will actually be less than the cost of buying a circuit which 
will
  do this in a reasonable amount of time, especially if you are buying a
  piece of hardware to store this data (likely).

  For the updates,  4pb per year is just over 1Mb/s if I did the math
  correctly   This is in the realm of normal internet, assuming the
  data grows gradually throughout a year.

  I'll let others point you toward a 10Gig wave if you'd rather not use
  the "move media" approach.


  On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Zach Underwood > wrote:

  I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project
  where will be getting data from a human genome company. What would
  be a option for move the data between our datacenter and there
  datacenter? We are in the southeast and they are in the midwest. 
The
  data amount would be a seed of 5pb and growth of 4pb per year. The
  networking on our side would be 100gbit LAN.

  --
  Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
  My website 
  advance-networking.com 




  --
  *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
  Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
  forre...@imach.com
   | http://www.packetflux.com
  
  

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Chuck McCown]

So this is a windows update only knob?

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 11:19 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

It doesn't change the speed. It only affects what/how Windows decides to feed 
itself. everything else is normal.




bp


On 4/17/2017 10:05 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  So all your browsing, downloading, streaming etc is metered?� What speed do 
you give yourself?
  �
  From: Bill Prince 
  Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 11:02 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild
  �
  Is this the so-called "Creator's Update"? 


  I have for a long time set all my ethernet connection to "metered" via a 
registry hack. I leave the WiFi connection turned off, except when I want 
updates to run. It works for me, as it leaves me in charge of exactly when the 
updates run.

  �

bp


On 4/17/2017 8:15 AM, Paul McCall wrote:

What are you guys doing to control Windows 10 update from downloading 
updates whenever it wants to?� Windows used to have a setting for when it 
would download and install, and now that setting (IF have you have access to 
the Group Policy editor - some Win versions supposedly don') only allows 
defining when it will INSTALL the updates and not when it downloads them.� 
You can make the update process manual I think through settings,� but 
customers won't ever update then, introducing other issues.� So, that isnt a 
great workaround.� You can also set an interface to �metered� which means 
it won�t DL until it gets an unmetered connection but that won�t help 
either.� 

Today 3 customers (plus my PC) were killing an AP, all connected to 
Microsoft presumably downloading updates as mine was from that IP.� That is 
what my PC was doing when I caught the problem.� All customers and myself 
were connected to the same MS IP address.

Even if customers had access to GPEDIT, and if it had that ability, talking 
customers through that would have been a not fun job for tech support for all 
the Win10 devices out there now.� Supposedly, not all versions of Win 10 have 
access to GPEDIT easily.� GPEDIT does have a setting for maximum DL for 
updates which helps but that would only slow things down for a lng time to 
get updaes.� Much better to have it do full updates after midnight.

Was wondering if there was something that could be defined at the customers 
CPE Mikrotik (in place at 95% of our customers) or at the tower Mikrotik.

There has to be some solution.

�

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800� 

pa...@pdmnet.net

www.pdmnet.com

www.floridabroadband.com

�

�

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Mathew Howard]

I like it, you may be on to something. So we basically just need to
convince the gamers to become good old fashioned bums that ride around on
freight trains all day...

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 12:07 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Gamers have to actually get in a RR car and physically fight.  Much more
> realistic and very low latency.
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 11:06 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer
>
> The gamers won't like the latency at all...
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Time to invest in RR stock.  Screw fiber.
>>
>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 10:33 AM
>> *To:* af
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer
>>
>> Well, assuming that the rail was moving at a similar speed to the trucks
>> - say 60MPH, And the rail cars were ~60 feet in length, and had the same
>> volume as the 53 foot truck.
>>
>> 60MPH = 316,800 FPH / 60 Feet = 5280 Railcars per hour, 88 railcars per
>> minute, 1.4 rail cars per second.
>>
>> Once the first one arrived, you'd have a continous feed of 26857.6Pbit/S
>>
>> Get to work on the automatic tape transcription device.  You only need to
>> write ~557,136 tapes per second, and don't forget loading them on the
>> train...
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> No, what would it be if you had continuous railcar transport???  We
>>> could eliminate all the fiber with railroads!
>>>
>>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 10:15 AM
>>> *To:* af
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer
>>>
>>> Chicago to LA is 30 hours by truck.
>>>
>>> Typical 53 foot trailer is 3816 cubic feet.
>>>
>>> A LTO-7 tape can hold 6TB
>>> The volume of a LTO-7 tape is just under 0.01 cubic foot
>>> (0.00839973)  We'll use 0.01 cubic foot.
>>>
>>> A 53 foot trailer packed completely full can hold 381600 Tapes X 6TB =
>>> 2,289,600TB, or 2289 PB.
>>>
>>> 2,289,600TB/30hours = 76320TB/hr.
>>> or
>>> 1272TB/min
>>> or
>>> 21.2TB/sec.
>>> or
>>> 169.6Tbit/second.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Robert Andrews 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I can't remember which but there was a nanog presentation a few years
 ago about max bandwidth and the top of the chart was still listed as a 747
 cargo full of optical media..   Now as far as getting that data on and off
 the media

 On 04/17/2017 07:36 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

> For the seed you need to understand this quote:
>
> "/Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
> hurtling down the highway/." —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989). Computer
> Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. p. 57. ISBN 0-13-166836-6.
>
> I'd highly recommend you think about how to move that seed via Fedex or
> UPS.You're already going to be storing the data somewhere, if
> possible, take whatever it is your storing it on (or backing it up on)
> to the origin location and copy it to it *then* ship it to and
> install it in your datacenter.   It is likely that the cost of doing
> this will actually be less than the cost of buying a circuit which will
> do this in a reasonable amount of time, especially if you are buying a
> piece of hardware to store this data (likely).
>
> For the updates,  4pb per year is just over 1Mb/s if I did the math
> correctly   This is in the realm of normal internet, assuming the
> data grows gradually throughout a year.
>
> I'll let others point you toward a 10Gig wave if you'd rather not use
> the "move media" approach.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Zach Underwood  > wrote:
>
> I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project
> where will be getting data from a human genome company. What would
> be a option for move the data between our datacenter and there
> datacenter? We are in the southeast and they are in the midwest.
> The
> data amount would be a seed of 5pb and growth of 4pb per year. The
> networking on our side would be 100gbit LAN.
>
> --
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
> My website 
> advance-networking.com 
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com
>  | http://www.packetflux.com
> 
>  <
> http://facebook.com/packetflux> 
>
>
>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Josh Reynolds]

:)

- Josh

On Apr 17, 2017 11:15 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Chicago to LA is 30 hours by truck.
>
> Typical 53 foot trailer is 3816 cubic feet.
>
> A LTO-7 tape can hold 6TB
> The volume of a LTO-7 tape is just under 0.01 cubic foot (0.00839973)
>  We'll use 0.01 cubic foot.
>
> A 53 foot trailer packed completely full can hold 381600 Tapes X 6TB =
> 2,289,600TB, or 2289 PB.
>
> 2,289,600TB/30hours = 76320TB/hr.
> or
> 1272TB/min
> or
> 21.2TB/sec.
> or
> 169.6Tbit/second.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
>> I can't remember which but there was a nanog presentation a few years ago
>> about max bandwidth and the top of the chart was still listed as a 747
>> cargo full of optical media..   Now as far as getting that data on and off
>> the media
>>
>> On 04/17/2017 07:36 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>
>>> For the seed you need to understand this quote:
>>>
>>> "/Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
>>> hurtling down the highway/." —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989). Computer
>>> Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. p. 57. ISBN 0-13-166836-6.
>>>
>>> I'd highly recommend you think about how to move that seed via Fedex or
>>> UPS.You're already going to be storing the data somewhere, if
>>> possible, take whatever it is your storing it on (or backing it up on)
>>> to the origin location and copy it to it *then* ship it to and
>>> install it in your datacenter.   It is likely that the cost of doing
>>> this will actually be less than the cost of buying a circuit which will
>>> do this in a reasonable amount of time, especially if you are buying a
>>> piece of hardware to store this data (likely).
>>>
>>> For the updates,  4pb per year is just over 1Mb/s if I did the math
>>> correctly   This is in the realm of normal internet, assuming the
>>> data grows gradually throughout a year.
>>>
>>> I'll let others point you toward a 10Gig wave if you'd rather not use
>>> the "move media" approach.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Zach Underwood >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project
>>> where will be getting data from a human genome company. What would
>>> be a option for move the data between our datacenter and there
>>> datacenter? We are in the southeast and they are in the midwest. The
>>> data amount would be a seed of 5pb and growth of 4pb per year. The
>>> networking on our side would be 100gbit LAN.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
>>> My website 
>>> advance-networking.com 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
>>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>>> forre...@imach.com
>>>  | http://www.packetflux.com
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Robert Andrews]

All limited by the write read speed to media, seems to me... But 
parallelization to multiple servers from multiple tapes...


On 04/17/2017 09:40 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Time to invest in RR stock.  Screw fiber.

*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 10:33 AM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

Well, assuming that the rail was moving at a similar speed to the trucks
- say 60MPH, And the rail cars were ~60 feet in length, and had the same
volume as the 53 foot truck.

60MPH = 316,800 FPH / 60 Feet = 5280 Railcars per hour, 88 railcars per
minute, 1.4 rail cars per second.

Once the first one arrived, you'd have a continous feed of 26857.6Pbit/S

Get to work on the automatic tape transcription device.  You only need
to write ~557,136 tapes per second, and don't forget loading them on the
train...



On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

No, what would it be if you had continuous railcar transport???  We
could eliminate all the fiber with railroads!

*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 10:15 AM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

Chicago to LA is 30 hours by truck.

Typical 53 foot trailer is 3816 cubic feet.

A LTO-7 tape can hold 6TB
The volume of a LTO-7 tape is just under 0.01 cubic foot
(0.00839973)  We'll use 0.01 cubic foot.

A 53 foot trailer packed completely full can hold 381600 Tapes X 6TB
= 2,289,600TB, or 2289 PB.

2,289,600TB/30hours = 76320TB/hr.
or
1272TB/min
or
21.2TB/sec.
or
169.6Tbit/second.






On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Robert Andrews
 wrote:

I can't remember which but there was a nanog presentation a few
years ago about max bandwidth and the top of the chart was still
listed as a 747 cargo full of optical media..   Now as far as
getting that data on and off the media

On 04/17/2017 07:36 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

For the seed you need to understand this quote:

"/Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full
of tapes
hurtling down the highway/." —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989).
Computer
Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. p. 57. ISBN 0-13-166836-6.

I'd highly recommend you think about how to move that seed
via Fedex or
UPS.You're already going to be storing the data
somewhere, if
possible, take whatever it is your storing it on (or backing
it up on)
to the origin location and copy it to it *then* ship it
to and
install it in your datacenter.   It is likely that the cost
of doing
this will actually be less than the cost of buying a circuit
which will
do this in a reasonable amount of time, especially if you
are buying a
piece of hardware to store this data (likely).

For the updates,  4pb per year is just over 1Mb/s if I did
the math
correctly   This is in the realm of normal internet,
assuming the
data grows gradually throughout a year.

I'll let others point you toward a 10Gig wave if you'd
rather not use
the "move media" approach.


On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Zach Underwood
> wrote:

I work for a medical data company and we have a possible
project
where will be getting data from a human genome company.
What would
be a option for move the data between our datacenter and
there
datacenter? We are in the southeast and they are in the
midwest. The
data amount would be a seed of 5pb and growth of 4pb per
year. The
networking on our side would be 100gbit LAN.

--
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com 





--
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345  | Address: 3577
Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com
 | http://www.packetflux.com

>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Chuck McCown]

Interesting.  I did not know that was in there.  
So you just write a script to turn it on and off with icons to trigger it... 
hmmm.  

From: Paul McCall 
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 11:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

Metered means the Updates won’t DL on that connection.  Period.  You can then 
unmeter it when you want to DL.  

 

Separately, you can also tell how much BW you want to use (in Kb) or by a % 
(not sure how it figures that you).  But that is by that one device.  AND, 
requires GPEDIT and requires smart uses AND requires time.  So, works for your 
own concerns but not as an ISP wise solution

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 1:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

 

So all your browsing, downloading, streaming etc is metered?  What speed do you 
give yourself?

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 11:02 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

 

Is this the so-called "Creator's Update"? 

I have for a long time set all my ethernet connection to "metered" via a 
registry hack. I leave the WiFi connection turned off, except when I want 
updates to run. It works for me, as it leaves me in charge of exactly when the 
updates run.

 

bp On 4/17/2017 8:15 AM, Paul McCall wrote:

  What are you guys doing to control Windows 10 update from downloading updates 
whenever it wants to?� Windows used to have a setting for when it would 
download and install, and now that setting (IF have you have access to the 
Group Policy editor - some Win versions supposedly don') only allows defining 
when it will INSTALL the updates and not when it downloads them.� You can 
make the update process manual I think through settings,� but customers won't 
ever update then, introducing other issues.� So, that isnt a great 
workaround.� You can also set an interface to �metered� which means it 
won�t DL until it gets an unmetered connection but that won�t help 
either.� 

  Today 3 customers (plus my PC) were killing an AP, all connected to Microsoft 
presumably downloading updates as mine was from that IP.� That is what my PC 
was doing when I caught the problem.� All customers and myself were connected 
to the same MS IP address.

  Even if customers had access to GPEDIT, and if it had that ability, talking 
customers through that would have been a not fun job for tech support for all 
the Win10 devices out there now.� Supposedly, not all versions of Win 10 have 
access to GPEDIT easily.� GPEDIT does have a setting for maximum DL for 
updates which helps but that would only slow things down for a lng time to 
get updaes.� Much better to have it do full updates after midnight.

  Was wondering if there was something that could be defined at the customers 
CPE Mikrotik (in place at 95% of our customers) or at the tower Mikrotik.

  There has to be some solution.

  �

  Paul McCall, President

  PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

  658 Old Dixie Highway

  Vero Beach, FL 32962

  772-564-6800� 

  pa...@pdmnet.net

  www.pdmnet.com

  www.floridabroadband.com

  �

  �

 

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Paul McCall]

Metered means the Updates won't DL on that connection.  Period.  You can then 
unmeter it when you want to DL.

Separately, you can also tell how much BW you want to use (in Kb) or by a % 
(not sure how it figures that you).  But that is by that one device.  AND, 
requires GPEDIT and requires smart uses AND requires time.  So, works for your 
own concerns but not as an ISP wise solution

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 1:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

So all your browsing, downloading, streaming etc is metered?  What speed do you 
give yourself?

From: Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 11:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild


Is this the so-called "Creator's Update"?

I have for a long time set all my ethernet connection to "metered" via a 
registry hack. I leave the WiFi connection turned off, except when I want 
updates to run. It works for me, as it leaves me in charge of exactly when the 
updates run.



bp




On 4/17/2017 8:15 AM, Paul McCall wrote:
What are you guys doing to control Windows 10 update from downloading updates 
whenever it wants to?� Windows used to have a setting for when it would 
download and install, and now that setting (IF have you have access to the 
Group Policy editor - some Win versions supposedly don') only allows defining 
when it will INSTALL the updates and not when it downloads them.� You can 
make the update process manual I think through settings,� but customers won't 
ever update then, introducing other issues.� So, that isnt a great 
workaround.� You can also set an interface to �metered� which means it 
won�t DL until it gets an unmetered connection but that won�t help 
either.�

Today 3 customers (plus my PC) were killing an AP, all connected to Microsoft 
presumably downloading updates as mine was from that IP.� That is what my PC 
was doing when I caught the problem.� All customers and myself were connected 
to the same MS IP address.

Even if customers had access to GPEDIT, and if it had that ability, talking 
customers through that would have been a not fun job for tech support for all 
the Win10 devices out there now.� Supposedly, not all versions of Win 10 have 
access to GPEDIT easily.� GPEDIT does have a setting for maximum DL for 
updates which helps but that would only slow things down for a lng time to 
get updaes.� Much better to have it do full updates after midnight.

Was wondering if there was something that could be defined at the customers CPE 
Mikrotik (in place at 95% of our customers) or at the tower Mikrotik.

There has to be some solution.
�
Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800�
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com
�
�

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Chuck McCown]

Gamers have to actually get in a RR car and physically fight.  Much more 
realistic and very low latency.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 11:06 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

The gamers won't like the latency at all...


On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Time to invest in RR stock.  Screw fiber.  

  From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
  Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 10:33 AM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

  Well, assuming that the rail was moving at a similar speed to the trucks - 
say 60MPH, And the rail cars were ~60 feet in length, and had the same volume 
as the 53 foot truck. 

  60MPH = 316,800 FPH / 60 Feet = 5280 Railcars per hour, 88 railcars per 
minute, 1.4 rail cars per second.

  Once the first one arrived, you'd have a continous feed of 26857.6Pbit/S

  Get to work on the automatic tape transcription device.  You only need to 
write ~557,136 tapes per second, and don't forget loading them on the train...



  On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

No, what would it be if you had continuous railcar transport???  We could 
eliminate all the fiber with railroads!

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 10:15 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

Chicago to LA is 30 hours by truck. 

Typical 53 foot trailer is 3816 cubic feet.

A LTO-7 tape can hold 6TB
The volume of a LTO-7 tape is just under 0.01 cubic foot (0.00839973)  
We'll use 0.01 cubic foot.

A 53 foot trailer packed completely full can hold 381600 Tapes X 6TB = 
2,289,600TB, or 2289 PB.

2,289,600TB/30hours = 76320TB/hr.
or
1272TB/min
or
21.2TB/sec.
or
169.6Tbit/second.






On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Robert Andrews  
wrote:

  I can't remember which but there was a nanog presentation a few years ago 
about max bandwidth and the top of the chart was still listed as a 747 cargo 
full of optical media..   Now as far as getting that data on and off the 
media

  On 04/17/2017 07:36 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

For the seed you need to understand this quote:

"/Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
hurtling down the highway/." —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989). Computer
Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. p. 57. ISBN 0-13-166836-6.

I'd highly recommend you think about how to move that seed via Fedex or
UPS.You're already going to be storing the data somewhere, if
possible, take whatever it is your storing it on (or backing it up on)
to the origin location and copy it to it *then* ship it to and
install it in your datacenter.   It is likely that the cost of doing
this will actually be less than the cost of buying a circuit which will
do this in a reasonable amount of time, especially if you are buying a
piece of hardware to store this data (likely).

For the updates,  4pb per year is just over 1Mb/s if I did the math
correctly   This is in the realm of normal internet, assuming the
data grows gradually throughout a year.

I'll let others point you toward a 10Gig wave if you'd rather not use
the "move media" approach.


On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Zach Underwood > wrote:

I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project
where will be getting data from a human genome company. What would
be a option for move the data between our datacenter and there
datacenter? We are in the southeast and they are in the midwest. The
data amount would be a seed of 5pb and growth of 4pb per year. The
networking on our side would be 100gbit LAN.

--
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com 




--
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com
 | http://www.packetflux.com

 
 







-- 

  Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

  Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
  forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com

 







  -- 

Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Paul McCall]

Yeah, we could start hacking at IP addresses, that could be unfruitful and 
change at any time also.

We used to have a WSUS server, and yeah, ummm, no, not something I would want 
to support for our customers.

OK, so we have explained and agree on the problem.  All the really smart guys 
can step forward now where their solutions?

Paul

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 11:25 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

I think there was a thread last year about this, some cobbling of a list of MS 
IP addresses or something, probably would fail in that the IP space is probably 
shared with xbox live stuff

This particular release they put out Tuesday i believe it something like 4-5 gb 
and theyre staging it out over two months or so, its just going to suck

It will allow people to delay the installations much easier, but not delay the 
dl

From the ISP side, we would never tell anybody not to do updates or to delay 
updates, and never walk a farmer through gpedit ... bad things

you could always throw up an AD domain controller and join all your customers 
to it and run a WSUS server. nothing could go wrong with  that :-)



On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:15 AM, Paul McCall 
> wrote:
What are you guys doing to control Windows 10 update from downloading updates 
whenever it wants to?  Windows used to have a setting for when it would 
download and install, and now that setting (IF have you have access to the 
Group Policy editor - some Win versions supposedly don') only allows defining 
when it will INSTALL the updates and not when it downloads them.  You can make 
the update process manual I think through settings,  but customers won't ever 
update then, introducing other issues.  So, that isnt a great workaround.  You 
can also set an interface to “metered” which means it won’t DL until it gets an 
unmetered connection but that won’t help either.

Today 3 customers (plus my PC) were killing an AP, all connected to Microsoft 
presumably downloading updates as mine was from that IP.  That is what my PC 
was doing when I caught the problem.  All customers and myself were connected 
to the same MS IP address.

Even if customers had access to GPEDIT, and if it had that ability, talking 
customers through that would have been a not fun job for tech support for all 
the Win10 devices out there now.  Supposedly, not all versions of Win 10 have 
access to GPEDIT easily.  GPEDIT does have a setting for maximum DL for updates 
which helps but that would only slow things down for a lng time to get 
updaes.  Much better to have it do full updates after midnight.

Was wondering if there was something that could be defined at the customers CPE 
Mikrotik (in place at 95% of our customers) or at the tower Mikrotik.

There has to be some solution.

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Mathew Howard]

The gamers won't like the latency at all...

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Time to invest in RR stock.  Screw fiber.
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 10:33 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer
>
> Well, assuming that the rail was moving at a similar speed to the trucks -
> say 60MPH, And the rail cars were ~60 feet in length, and had the same
> volume as the 53 foot truck.
>
> 60MPH = 316,800 FPH / 60 Feet = 5280 Railcars per hour, 88 railcars per
> minute, 1.4 rail cars per second.
>
> Once the first one arrived, you'd have a continous feed of 26857.6Pbit/S
>
> Get to work on the automatic tape transcription device.  You only need to
> write ~557,136 tapes per second, and don't forget loading them on the
> train...
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> No, what would it be if you had continuous railcar transport???  We could
>> eliminate all the fiber with railroads!
>>
>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 10:15 AM
>> *To:* af
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer
>>
>> Chicago to LA is 30 hours by truck.
>>
>> Typical 53 foot trailer is 3816 cubic feet.
>>
>> A LTO-7 tape can hold 6TB
>> The volume of a LTO-7 tape is just under 0.01 cubic foot
>> (0.00839973)  We'll use 0.01 cubic foot.
>>
>> A 53 foot trailer packed completely full can hold 381600 Tapes X 6TB =
>> 2,289,600TB, or 2289 PB.
>>
>> 2,289,600TB/30hours = 76320TB/hr.
>> or
>> 1272TB/min
>> or
>> 21.2TB/sec.
>> or
>> 169.6Tbit/second.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Robert Andrews 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I can't remember which but there was a nanog presentation a few years
>>> ago about max bandwidth and the top of the chart was still listed as a 747
>>> cargo full of optical media..   Now as far as getting that data on and off
>>> the media
>>>
>>> On 04/17/2017 07:36 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>>
 For the seed you need to understand this quote:

 "/Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
 hurtling down the highway/." —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989). Computer
 Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. p. 57. ISBN 0-13-166836-6.

 I'd highly recommend you think about how to move that seed via Fedex or
 UPS.You're already going to be storing the data somewhere, if
 possible, take whatever it is your storing it on (or backing it up on)
 to the origin location and copy it to it *then* ship it to and
 install it in your datacenter.   It is likely that the cost of doing
 this will actually be less than the cost of buying a circuit which will
 do this in a reasonable amount of time, especially if you are buying a
 piece of hardware to store this data (likely).

 For the updates,  4pb per year is just over 1Mb/s if I did the math
 correctly   This is in the realm of normal internet, assuming the
 data grows gradually throughout a year.

 I'll let others point you toward a 10Gig wave if you'd rather not use
 the "move media" approach.


 On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Zach Underwood > wrote:

 I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project
 where will be getting data from a human genome company. What would
 be a option for move the data between our datacenter and there
 datacenter? We are in the southeast and they are in the midwest. The
 data amount would be a seed of 5pb and growth of 4pb per year. The
 networking on our side would be 100gbit LAN.

 --
 Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
 My website 
 advance-networking.com 




 --
 *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
 Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
 forre...@imach.com
  | http://www.packetflux.com
 
   



>>
>>
>> --
>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>> 
>>   
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Chuck McCown]

So all your browsing, downloading, streaming etc is metered?  What speed do you 
give yourself?

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 11:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

Is this the so-called "Creator's Update"? 


I have for a long time set all my ethernet connection to "metered" via a 
registry hack. I leave the WiFi connection turned off, except when I want 
updates to run. It works for me, as it leaves me in charge of exactly when the 
updates run.



bp


On 4/17/2017 8:15 AM, Paul McCall wrote:

  What are you guys doing to control Windows 10 update from downloading updates 
whenever it wants to?� Windows used to have a setting for when it would 
download and install, and now that setting (IF have you have access to the 
Group Policy editor - some Win versions supposedly don') only allows defining 
when it will INSTALL the updates and not when it downloads them.� You can 
make the update process manual I think through settings,� but customers won't 
ever update then, introducing other issues.� So, that isnt a great 
workaround.� You can also set an interface to �metered� which means it 
won�t DL until it gets an unmetered connection but that won�t help 
either.� 

  Today 3 customers (plus my PC) were killing an AP, all connected to Microsoft 
presumably downloading updates as mine was from that IP.� That is what my PC 
was doing when I caught the problem.� All customers and myself were connected 
to the same MS IP address.

  Even if customers had access to GPEDIT, and if it had that ability, talking 
customers through that would have been a not fun job for tech support for all 
the Win10 devices out there now.� Supposedly, not all versions of Win 10 have 
access to GPEDIT easily.� GPEDIT does have a setting for maximum DL for 
updates which helps but that would only slow things down for a lng time to 
get updaes.� Much better to have it do full updates after midnight.

  Was wondering if there was something that could be defined at the customers 
CPE Mikrotik (in place at 95% of our customers) or at the tower Mikrotik.

  There has to be some solution.

  �

  Paul McCall, President

  PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

  658 Old Dixie Highway

  Vero Beach, FL 32962

  772-564-6800� 

  pa...@pdmnet.net

  www.pdmnet.com

  www.floridabroadband.com

  �

  �

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Bill Prince]

Is this the so-called "Creator's Update"?

I have for a long time set all my ethernet connection to "metered" via a 
registry hack. I leave the WiFi connection turned off, except when I 
want updates to run. It works for me, as it leaves me in charge of 
exactly when the updates run.



bp


On 4/17/2017 8:15 AM, Paul McCall wrote:


What are you guys doing to control Windows 10 update from downloading 
updates whenever it wants to? Windows used to have a setting for when 
it would download and install, and now that setting (IF have you have 
access to the Group Policy editor - some Win versions supposedly don') 
only allows defining when it will INSTALL the updates and not when it 
downloads them.  You can make the update process manual I think 
through settings,  but customers won't ever update then, introducing 
other issues.  So, that isnt a great workaround. You can also set an 
interface to �metered� which means it won�t DL until it gets an 
unmetered connection but that won�t help either.


Today 3 customers (plus my PC) were killing an AP, all connected to 
Microsoft presumably downloading updates as mine was from that IP.  
That is what my PC was doing when I caught the problem.  All customers 
and myself were connected to the same MS IP address.


Even if customers had access to GPEDIT, and if it had that ability, 
talking customers through that would have been a not fun job for tech 
support for all the Win10 devices out there now.  Supposedly, not all 
versions of Win 10 have access to GPEDIT easily.  GPEDIT does have a 
setting for maximum DL for updates which helps but that would only 
slow things down for a lng time to get updaes.  Much better to 
have it do full updates after midnight.


Was wondering if there was something that could be defined at the 
customers CPE Mikrotik (in place at 95% of our customers) or at the 
tower Mikrotik.


There has to be some solution.

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800

pa...@pdmnet.net 

www.pdmnet.com 

www.floridabroadband.com 

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Chuck McCown]

Time to invest in RR stock.  Screw fiber.  

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 10:33 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

Well, assuming that the rail was moving at a similar speed to the trucks - say 
60MPH, And the rail cars were ~60 feet in length, and had the same volume as 
the 53 foot truck. 

60MPH = 316,800 FPH / 60 Feet = 5280 Railcars per hour, 88 railcars per minute, 
1.4 rail cars per second.

Once the first one arrived, you'd have a continous feed of 26857.6Pbit/S

Get to work on the automatic tape transcription device.  You only need to write 
~557,136 tapes per second, and don't forget loading them on the train...



On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  No, what would it be if you had continuous railcar transport???  We could 
eliminate all the fiber with railroads!

  From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
  Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 10:15 AM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

  Chicago to LA is 30 hours by truck. 

  Typical 53 foot trailer is 3816 cubic feet.

  A LTO-7 tape can hold 6TB
  The volume of a LTO-7 tape is just under 0.01 cubic foot (0.00839973)  
We'll use 0.01 cubic foot.

  A 53 foot trailer packed completely full can hold 381600 Tapes X 6TB = 
2,289,600TB, or 2289 PB.

  2,289,600TB/30hours = 76320TB/hr.
  or
  1272TB/min
  or
  21.2TB/sec.
  or
  169.6Tbit/second.






  On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Robert Andrews  
wrote:

I can't remember which but there was a nanog presentation a few years ago 
about max bandwidth and the top of the chart was still listed as a 747 cargo 
full of optical media..   Now as far as getting that data on and off the 
media

On 04/17/2017 07:36 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

  For the seed you need to understand this quote:

  "/Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
  hurtling down the highway/." —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989). Computer
  Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. p. 57. ISBN 0-13-166836-6.

  I'd highly recommend you think about how to move that seed via Fedex or
  UPS.You're already going to be storing the data somewhere, if
  possible, take whatever it is your storing it on (or backing it up on)
  to the origin location and copy it to it *then* ship it to and
  install it in your datacenter.   It is likely that the cost of doing
  this will actually be less than the cost of buying a circuit which will
  do this in a reasonable amount of time, especially if you are buying a
  piece of hardware to store this data (likely).

  For the updates,  4pb per year is just over 1Mb/s if I did the math
  correctly   This is in the realm of normal internet, assuming the
  data grows gradually throughout a year.

  I'll let others point you toward a 10Gig wave if you'd rather not use
  the "move media" approach.


  On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Zach Underwood > wrote:

  I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project
  where will be getting data from a human genome company. What would
  be a option for move the data between our datacenter and there
  datacenter? We are in the southeast and they are in the midwest. The
  data amount would be a seed of 5pb and growth of 4pb per year. The
  networking on our side would be 100gbit LAN.

  --
  Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
  My website 
  advance-networking.com 




  --
  *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
  Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
  forre...@imach.com
   | http://www.packetflux.com
  
    








  -- 

Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com

   







-- 

  Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

  Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
  forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com

 

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Well, assuming that the rail was moving at a similar speed to the trucks -
say 60MPH, And the rail cars were ~60 feet in length, and had the same
volume as the 53 foot truck.

60MPH = 316,800 FPH / 60 Feet = 5280 Railcars per hour, 88 railcars per
minute, 1.4 rail cars per second.

Once the first one arrived, you'd have a continous feed of 26857.6Pbit/S

Get to work on the automatic tape transcription device.  You only need to
write ~557,136 tapes per second, and don't forget loading them on the
train...



On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> No, what would it be if you had continuous railcar transport???  We could
> eliminate all the fiber with railroads!
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 10:15 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer
>
> Chicago to LA is 30 hours by truck.
>
> Typical 53 foot trailer is 3816 cubic feet.
>
> A LTO-7 tape can hold 6TB
> The volume of a LTO-7 tape is just under 0.01 cubic foot (0.00839973)
> We'll use 0.01 cubic foot.
>
> A 53 foot trailer packed completely full can hold 381600 Tapes X 6TB =
> 2,289,600TB, or 2289 PB.
>
> 2,289,600TB/30hours = 76320TB/hr.
> or
> 1272TB/min
> or
> 21.2TB/sec.
> or
> 169.6Tbit/second.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
>> I can't remember which but there was a nanog presentation a few years ago
>> about max bandwidth and the top of the chart was still listed as a 747
>> cargo full of optical media..   Now as far as getting that data on and off
>> the media
>>
>> On 04/17/2017 07:36 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>
>>> For the seed you need to understand this quote:
>>>
>>> "/Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
>>> hurtling down the highway/." —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989). Computer
>>> Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. p. 57. ISBN 0-13-166836-6.
>>>
>>> I'd highly recommend you think about how to move that seed via Fedex or
>>> UPS.You're already going to be storing the data somewhere, if
>>> possible, take whatever it is your storing it on (or backing it up on)
>>> to the origin location and copy it to it *then* ship it to and
>>> install it in your datacenter.   It is likely that the cost of doing
>>> this will actually be less than the cost of buying a circuit which will
>>> do this in a reasonable amount of time, especially if you are buying a
>>> piece of hardware to store this data (likely).
>>>
>>> For the updates,  4pb per year is just over 1Mb/s if I did the math
>>> correctly   This is in the realm of normal internet, assuming the
>>> data grows gradually throughout a year.
>>>
>>> I'll let others point you toward a 10Gig wave if you'd rather not use
>>> the "move media" approach.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Zach Underwood >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project
>>> where will be getting data from a human genome company. What would
>>> be a option for move the data between our datacenter and there
>>> datacenter? We are in the southeast and they are in the midwest. The
>>> data amount would be a seed of 5pb and growth of 4pb per year. The
>>> networking on our side would be 100gbit LAN.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
>>> My website 
>>> advance-networking.com 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
>>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>>> forre...@imach.com
>>>  | http://www.packetflux.com
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Mathew Howard]

I don't know that they've completely fixed it, but it's definitely not as
bad as it used to be.

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Have they fixed the problem where they were hammering the queueing\policer
> with several times more traffic than the maximum set to? I haven't heard
> that complaint lately.
>
> How many TCP connections were they using?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Paul McCall" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, April 17, 2017 10:15:37 AM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild
>
> What are you guys doing to control Windows 10 update from downloading
> updates whenever it wants to?  Windows used to have a setting for when it
> would download and install, and now that setting (IF have you have access
> to the Group Policy editor - some Win versions supposedly don') only allows
> defining when it will INSTALL the updates and not when it downloads them.
> You can make the update process manual I think through settings,  but
> customers won't ever update then, introducing other issues.  So, that isnt
> a great workaround.  You can also set an interface to “metered” which means
> it won’t DL until it gets an unmetered connection but that won’t help
> either.
>
> Today 3 customers (plus my PC) were killing an AP, all connected to
> Microsoft presumably downloading updates as mine was from that IP.  That is
> what my PC was doing when I caught the problem.  All customers and myself
> were connected to the same MS IP address.
>
> Even if customers had access to GPEDIT, and if it had that ability,
> talking customers through that would have been a not fun job for tech
> support for all the Win10 devices out there now.  Supposedly, not all
> versions of Win 10 have access to GPEDIT easily.  GPEDIT does have a
> setting for maximum DL for updates which helps but that would only slow
> things down for a lng time to get updaes.  Much better to have it do
> full updates after midnight.
>
> Was wondering if there was something that could be defined at the
> customers CPE Mikrotik (in place at 95% of our customers) or at the tower
> Mikrotik.
>
> There has to be some solution.
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Lewis Bergman]

careful. UP is listening.

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 11:22 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> No, what would it be if you had continuous railcar transport???  We could
> eliminate all the fiber with railroads!
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 10:15 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer
> Chicago to LA is 30 hours by truck.
>
> Typical 53 foot trailer is 3816 cubic feet.
>
> A LTO-7 tape can hold 6TB
> The volume of a LTO-7 tape is just under 0.01 cubic foot (0.00839973)
> We'll use 0.01 cubic foot.
>
> A 53 foot trailer packed completely full can hold 381600 Tapes X 6TB =
> 2,289,600TB, or 2289 PB.
>
> 2,289,600TB/30hours = 76320TB/hr.
> or
> 1272TB/min
> or
> 21.2TB/sec.
> or
> 169.6Tbit/second.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
>> I can't remember which but there was a nanog presentation a few years ago
>> about max bandwidth and the top of the chart was still listed as a 747
>> cargo full of optical media..   Now as far as getting that data on and off
>> the media
>>
>> On 04/17/2017 07:36 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>
>>> For the seed you need to understand this quote:
>>>
>>> "/Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
>>> hurtling down the highway/." —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989). Computer
>>> Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. p. 57. ISBN 0-13-166836-6.
>>>
>>> I'd highly recommend you think about how to move that seed via Fedex or
>>> UPS.You're already going to be storing the data somewhere, if
>>> possible, take whatever it is your storing it on (or backing it up on)
>>> to the origin location and copy it to it *then* ship it to and
>>> install it in your datacenter.   It is likely that the cost of doing
>>> this will actually be less than the cost of buying a circuit which will
>>> do this in a reasonable amount of time, especially if you are buying a
>>> piece of hardware to store this data (likely).
>>>
>>> For the updates,  4pb per year is just over 1Mb/s if I did the math
>>> correctly   This is in the realm of normal internet, assuming the
>>> data grows gradually throughout a year.
>>>
>>> I'll let others point you toward a 10Gig wave if you'd rather not use
>>> the "move media" approach.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Zach Underwood >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project
>>> where will be getting data from a human genome company. What would
>>> be a option for move the data between our datacenter and there
>>> datacenter? We are in the southeast and they are in the midwest. The
>>> data amount would be a seed of 5pb and growth of 4pb per year. The
>>> networking on our side would be 100gbit LAN.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
>>> My website 
>>> advance-networking.com 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
>>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>>> forre...@imach.com
>>>  | http://www.packetflux.com
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Chuck McCown]

No, what would it be if you had continuous railcar transport???  We could 
eliminate all the fiber with railroads!

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 10:15 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

Chicago to LA is 30 hours by truck. 

Typical 53 foot trailer is 3816 cubic feet.

A LTO-7 tape can hold 6TB
The volume of a LTO-7 tape is just under 0.01 cubic foot (0.00839973)  
We'll use 0.01 cubic foot.

A 53 foot trailer packed completely full can hold 381600 Tapes X 6TB = 
2,289,600TB, or 2289 PB.

2,289,600TB/30hours = 76320TB/hr.
or
1272TB/min
or
21.2TB/sec.
or
169.6Tbit/second.






On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Robert Andrews  wrote:

  I can't remember which but there was a nanog presentation a few years ago 
about max bandwidth and the top of the chart was still listed as a 747 cargo 
full of optical media..   Now as far as getting that data on and off the 
media

  On 04/17/2017 07:36 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

For the seed you need to understand this quote:

"/Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
hurtling down the highway/." —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989). Computer
Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. p. 57. ISBN 0-13-166836-6.

I'd highly recommend you think about how to move that seed via Fedex or
UPS.You're already going to be storing the data somewhere, if
possible, take whatever it is your storing it on (or backing it up on)
to the origin location and copy it to it *then* ship it to and
install it in your datacenter.   It is likely that the cost of doing
this will actually be less than the cost of buying a circuit which will
do this in a reasonable amount of time, especially if you are buying a
piece of hardware to store this data (likely).

For the updates,  4pb per year is just over 1Mb/s if I did the math
correctly   This is in the realm of normal internet, assuming the
data grows gradually throughout a year.

I'll let others point you toward a 10Gig wave if you'd rather not use
the "move media" approach.


On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Zach Underwood > wrote:

I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project
where will be getting data from a human genome company. What would
be a option for move the data between our datacenter and there
datacenter? We are in the southeast and they are in the midwest. The
data amount would be a seed of 5pb and growth of 4pb per year. The
networking on our side would be 100gbit LAN.

--
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com 




--
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com
 | http://www.packetflux.com

  








-- 

  Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

  Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
  forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com

 

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Rory Conaway]

Forest, you are my hero.

The best analogy I ever saw on how slow DSL infrastructure was when someone 
proved they could carry more data by carrier pigeon across Africa faster than 
their internet.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 9:16 AM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

Chicago to LA is 30 hours by truck.

Typical 53 foot trailer is 3816 cubic feet.

A LTO-7 tape can hold 6TB
The volume of a LTO-7 tape is just under 0.01 cubic foot (0.00839973)  
We'll use 0.01 cubic foot.

A 53 foot trailer packed completely full can hold 381600 Tapes X 6TB = 
2,289,600TB, or 2289 PB.

2,289,600TB/30hours = 76320TB/hr.
or
1272TB/min
or
21.2TB/sec.
or
169.6Tbit/second.






On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
I can't remember which but there was a nanog presentation a few years ago about 
max bandwidth and the top of the chart was still listed as a 747 cargo full of 
optical media..   Now as far as getting that data on and off the media

On 04/17/2017 07:36 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
For the seed you need to understand this quote:

"/Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
hurtling down the highway/." —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989). Computer
Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. p. 57. ISBN 0-13-166836-6.

I'd highly recommend you think about how to move that seed via Fedex or
UPS.You're already going to be storing the data somewhere, if
possible, take whatever it is your storing it on (or backing it up on)
to the origin location and copy it to it *then* ship it to and
install it in your datacenter.   It is likely that the cost of doing
this will actually be less than the cost of buying a circuit which will
do this in a reasonable amount of time, especially if you are buying a
piece of hardware to store this data (likely).

For the updates,  4pb per year is just over 1Mb/s if I did the math
correctly   This is in the realm of normal internet, assuming the
data grows gradually throughout a year.

I'll let others point you toward a 10Gig wave if you'd rather not use
the "move media" approach.


On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Zach Underwood 

>> wrote:

I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project
where will be getting data from a human genome company. What would
be a option for move the data between our datacenter and there
datacenter? We are in the southeast and they are in the midwest. The
data amount would be a seed of 5pb and growth of 4pb per year. The
networking on our side would be 100gbit LAN.

--
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com 





--
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, 
MT 59602
forre...@imach.com
> | 
http://www.packetflux.com

  





--
Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | 
http://www.packetflux.com
[https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/linkedin.png]
 [https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/facebook.png] 
  
[https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wisestamp.com/icons/twitter.png] 

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Chicago to LA is 30 hours by truck.

Typical 53 foot trailer is 3816 cubic feet.

A LTO-7 tape can hold 6TB
The volume of a LTO-7 tape is just under 0.01 cubic foot (0.00839973)
 We'll use 0.01 cubic foot.

A 53 foot trailer packed completely full can hold 381600 Tapes X 6TB =
2,289,600TB, or 2289 PB.

2,289,600TB/30hours = 76320TB/hr.
or
1272TB/min
or
21.2TB/sec.
or
169.6Tbit/second.






On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> I can't remember which but there was a nanog presentation a few years ago
> about max bandwidth and the top of the chart was still listed as a 747
> cargo full of optical media..   Now as far as getting that data on and off
> the media
>
> On 04/17/2017 07:36 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
>> For the seed you need to understand this quote:
>>
>> "/Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
>> hurtling down the highway/." —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989). Computer
>> Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. p. 57. ISBN 0-13-166836-6.
>>
>> I'd highly recommend you think about how to move that seed via Fedex or
>> UPS.You're already going to be storing the data somewhere, if
>> possible, take whatever it is your storing it on (or backing it up on)
>> to the origin location and copy it to it *then* ship it to and
>> install it in your datacenter.   It is likely that the cost of doing
>> this will actually be less than the cost of buying a circuit which will
>> do this in a reasonable amount of time, especially if you are buying a
>> piece of hardware to store this data (likely).
>>
>> For the updates,  4pb per year is just over 1Mb/s if I did the math
>> correctly   This is in the realm of normal internet, assuming the
>> data grows gradually throughout a year.
>>
>> I'll let others point you toward a 10Gig wave if you'd rather not use
>> the "move media" approach.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Zach Underwood > > wrote:
>>
>> I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project
>> where will be getting data from a human genome company. What would
>> be a option for move the data between our datacenter and there
>> datacenter? We are in the southeast and they are in the midwest. The
>> data amount would be a seed of 5pb and growth of 4pb per year. The
>> networking on our side would be 100gbit LAN.
>>
>> --
>> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
>> My website 
>> advance-networking.com 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>> forre...@imach.com
>>  | http://www.packetflux.com
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>
>>
>>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Seth Mattinen]

On 4/17/17 08:32, Mathew Howard wrote:

The problem I see with that is, a lot of the time these updates come
from CDN's rather than Microsoft IP space... I'm pretty sure bad things
would happen if you try to limit access to major CDN's IP space.



I see Microsoft ISO downloads and updates coming from the local Akamai node.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Mike Hammett]

Have they fixed the problem where they were hammering the queueing\policer with 
several times more traffic than the maximum set to? I haven't heard that 
complaint lately. 

How many TCP connections were they using? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul McCall"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 10:15:37 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild 



What are you guys doing to control Windows 10 update from downloading updates 
whenever it wants to? Windows used to have a setting for when it would download 
and install, and now that setting (IF have you have access to the Group Policy 
editor - some Win versions supposedly don') only allows defining when it will 
INSTALL the updates and not when it downloads them. You can make the update 
process manual I think through settings, but customers won't ever update then, 
introducing other issues. So, that isnt a great workaround. You can also set an 
interface to “metered” which means it won’t DL until it gets an unmetered 
connection but that won’t help either. 

Today 3 customers (plus my PC) were killing an AP, all connected to Microsoft 
presumably downloading updates as mine was from that IP. That is what my PC was 
doing when I caught the problem. All customers and myself were connected to the 
same MS IP address. 

Even if customers had access to GPEDIT, and if it had that ability, talking 
customers through that would have been a not fun job for tech support for all 
the Win10 devices out there now. Supposedly, not all versions of Win 10 have 
access to GPEDIT easily. GPEDIT does have a setting for maximum DL for updates 
which helps but that would only slow things down for a lng time to get 
updaes. Much better to have it do full updates after midnight. 

Was wondering if there was something that could be defined at the customers CPE 
Mikrotik (in place at 95% of our customers) or at the tower Mikrotik. 

There has to be some solution. 

Paul McCall, President 
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc. 
658 Old Dixie Highway 
Vero Beach, FL 32962 
772-564-6800 
pa...@pdmnet.net 
www.pdmnet.com 
www.floridabroadband.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Verizon Email to Text Gateway

[Robert Andrews]

I just used it to send texts to/from so it works in some way...

On 04/17/2017 07:27 AM, George Skorup wrote:

From one of my BIND servers exiting one upstream, I'm seeing...
smtpin01.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.202.0.158 = PTR
vzwgw5003a.a.cloudfilter.net
smtpin02.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.36.60.220 = PTR
vzwgw6003a.a.cloudfilter.net

Another exiting another upstream...
smtpin01.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.202.0.158 = PTR
vzwgw5003a.a.cloudfilter.net
smtpin02.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.10.83.138 = PTR
vzwgw6002a.a.cloudfilter.net

And yet another...
smtpin01.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.16.175.197 = PTR
vzwgw5001a.a.cloudfilter.net
smtpin02.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.11.98.232 = PTR
vzwgw6001a.a.cloudfilter.net

And a slightly different response when using 8.8.8.8.

I'm sure these are all hitting different load-balancers coming in on
different peers of theirs. So this is probably a case where it wouldn't
be a terrible idea to use 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 as tertiary resolvers at
least on your monitoring systems.

On 4/17/2017 7:57 AM, Andy Trimmell wrote:

Both of those addresses report as down.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 8:49 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Verizon Email to Text Gateway

I didn't want tho post this over on the Outages list, since I hadn't
seen anything there, I figured it is just me, but you guys are cooler
to tell me that it's just my problem.

I'm getting errors starting yesterday trying to email
phonenum...@vtext.com  some messages are going through, but most are
not.  I'm not getting rejections, just this SMTP Reply, so they sit in
my outbound queue.

DNS query 'vtext.com' 0 (2) [OK - 2]
Connecting to 'smtpin01.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net'
421 vzw-ibgw-5002a.stratus.cloudmark.com cmsmtp ESMTP server
temporarily not available

Anyone else seeing Verizon Email to text issues.

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik speed test...

[Dennis Burgess]

Yep,

East.us.linktechs.net and west.us.linktechs.net




Dennis Burgess – Network Solution Engineer – Consultant
MikroTik Certified 
Trainer/Consultant
 – MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE

For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
Radio Frequency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
Office: 314-735-0270
E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe Novak
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 9:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik speed test...

https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=104266 - Two public 10G test 
servers. I don't know if LinkTechs still has a setup in the midwest or not..

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
Hi all,
I just upgraded a circuit and need to verify speed.  I saved an email 
with an external MT bandwidth test to it but can't find the email. I guess I 
should have marked it special..  Anyone help out with one of the locations that 
someone is providing one of those?

Thanks a bunch,
Robert

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Robert Andrews]

I can't remember which but there was a nanog presentation a few years 
ago about max bandwidth and the top of the chart was still listed as a 
747 cargo full of optical media..   Now as far as getting that data on 
and off the media


On 04/17/2017 07:36 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

For the seed you need to understand this quote:

"/Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
hurtling down the highway/." —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989). Computer
Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. p. 57. ISBN 0-13-166836-6.

I'd highly recommend you think about how to move that seed via Fedex or
UPS.You're already going to be storing the data somewhere, if
possible, take whatever it is your storing it on (or backing it up on)
to the origin location and copy it to it *then* ship it to and
install it in your datacenter.   It is likely that the cost of doing
this will actually be less than the cost of buying a circuit which will
do this in a reasonable amount of time, especially if you are buying a
piece of hardware to store this data (likely).

For the updates,  4pb per year is just over 1Mb/s if I did the math
correctly   This is in the realm of normal internet, assuming the
data grows gradually throughout a year.

I'll let others point you toward a 10Gig wave if you'd rather not use
the "move media" approach.


On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Zach Underwood > wrote:

I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project
where will be getting data from a human genome company. What would
be a option for move the data between our datacenter and there
datacenter? We are in the southeast and they are in the midwest. The
data amount would be a seed of 5pb and growth of 4pb per year. The
networking on our side would be 100gbit LAN.

--
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com 




--
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com
 | http://www.packetflux.com

  

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Mathew Howard]

The problem I see with that is, a lot of the time these updates come from
CDN's rather than Microsoft IP space... I'm pretty sure bad things would
happen if you try to limit access to major CDN's IP space.

I'd agree that telling anybody not to do or delay updates is a bad idea,
even if there was an easy way to do that on Windows 10... ideally, I'd like
to limit updates to something like half of the connection speed, but I
don't really see a realistic way of doing that, so we're pretty much stuck
with telling the customer to just deal with it and make sure they leave
their PC turned on until it finishes... I don't know how many customers
I've seen on our basic plan that call us to complain that their connection
hasn't worked for "weeks" and when I look at it, it's obvious that it's
been trying to do an update, but because their connection is so slow, they
just give up trying to use it and turn the PC off after a few minutes, so
it never finishes.

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I think there was a thread last year about this, some cobbling of a list
> of MS IP addresses or something, probably would fail in that the IP space
> is probably shared with xbox live stuff
>
> This particular release they put out Tuesday i believe it something like
> 4-5 gb and theyre staging it out over two months or so, its just going to
> suck
>
> It will allow people to delay the installations much easier, but not delay
> the dl
>
> From the ISP side, we would never tell anybody not to do updates or to
> delay updates, and never walk a farmer through gpedit ... bad things
>
> you could always throw up an AD domain controller and join all your
> customers to it and run a WSUS server. nothing could go wrong with
>  that :-)
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:15 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
>
>> What are you guys doing to control Windows 10 update from downloading
>> updates whenever it wants to?  Windows used to have a setting for when it
>> would download and install, and now that setting (IF have you have access
>> to the Group Policy editor - some Win versions supposedly don') only allows
>> defining when it will INSTALL the updates and not when it downloads them.
>> You can make the update process manual I think through settings,  but
>> customers won't ever update then, introducing other issues.  So, that isnt
>> a great workaround.  You can also set an interface to “metered” which means
>> it won’t DL until it gets an unmetered connection but that won’t help
>> either.
>>
>> Today 3 customers (plus my PC) were killing an AP, all connected to
>> Microsoft presumably downloading updates as mine was from that IP.  That is
>> what my PC was doing when I caught the problem.  All customers and myself
>> were connected to the same MS IP address.
>>
>> Even if customers had access to GPEDIT, and if it had that ability,
>> talking customers through that would have been a not fun job for tech
>> support for all the Win10 devices out there now.  Supposedly, not all
>> versions of Win 10 have access to GPEDIT easily.  GPEDIT does have a
>> setting for maximum DL for updates which helps but that would only slow
>> things down for a lng time to get updaes.  Much better to have it do
>> full updates after midnight.
>>
>> Was wondering if there was something that could be defined at the
>> customers CPE Mikrotik (in place at 95% of our customers) or at the tower
>> Mikrotik.
>>
>> There has to be some solution.
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul McCall, President
>>
>> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>>
>> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>>
>> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>>
>> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>>
>> pa...@pdmnet.net
>>
>> www.pdmnet.com
>>
>> www.floridabroadband.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Steve Jones]

I think there was a thread last year about this, some cobbling of a list of
MS IP addresses or something, probably would fail in that the IP space is
probably shared with xbox live stuff

This particular release they put out Tuesday i believe it something like
4-5 gb and theyre staging it out over two months or so, its just going to
suck

It will allow people to delay the installations much easier, but not delay
the dl

>From the ISP side, we would never tell anybody not to do updates or to
delay updates, and never walk a farmer through gpedit ... bad things

you could always throw up an AD domain controller and join all your
customers to it and run a WSUS server. nothing could go wrong with
 that :-)



On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:15 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> What are you guys doing to control Windows 10 update from downloading
> updates whenever it wants to?  Windows used to have a setting for when it
> would download and install, and now that setting (IF have you have access
> to the Group Policy editor - some Win versions supposedly don') only allows
> defining when it will INSTALL the updates and not when it downloads them.
> You can make the update process manual I think through settings,  but
> customers won't ever update then, introducing other issues.  So, that isnt
> a great workaround.  You can also set an interface to “metered” which means
> it won’t DL until it gets an unmetered connection but that won’t help
> either.
>
> Today 3 customers (plus my PC) were killing an AP, all connected to
> Microsoft presumably downloading updates as mine was from that IP.  That is
> what my PC was doing when I caught the problem.  All customers and myself
> were connected to the same MS IP address.
>
> Even if customers had access to GPEDIT, and if it had that ability,
> talking customers through that would have been a not fun job for tech
> support for all the Win10 devices out there now.  Supposedly, not all
> versions of Win 10 have access to GPEDIT easily.  GPEDIT does have a
> setting for maximum DL for updates which helps but that would only slow
> things down for a lng time to get updaes.  Much better to have it do
> full updates after midnight.
>
> Was wondering if there was something that could be defined at the
> customers CPE Mikrotik (in place at 95% of our customers) or at the tower
> Mikrotik.
>
> There has to be some solution.
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Calix E7-2 vs AdTran, Zhone, or?

[PE R]

ONT only, I believe.

  From: Daniel Gerlach 
 To: "af@afmug.com"  
 Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 11:43 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix E7-2 vs AdTran, Zhone, or?
   
zyxel

2017-04-14 4:37 GMT+02:00 Dev :
> We are looking at the Calix E7-2 for GPON, and wondering what others are 
> running? Are you happy with  and why/why not?


   

Re: [AFMUG] Calix E7-2 vs AdTran, Zhone, or?

[PE R]

We met with operators at NTCA last week and discussed ZTE vs. other 
options...very, very postive feedback.  Would welcome the chance to follow up 
and discuss the CAPEX benefits we can offer as well.

  From: Dev 
 To: af@afmug.com 
 Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 9:37 PM
 Subject: [AFMUG] Calix E7-2 vs AdTran, Zhone, or?
   
We are looking at the Calix E7-2 for GPON, and wondering what others are 
running? Are you happy with  and why/why not?

   

[AFMUG] Windows 10 Updates running wild

[Paul McCall]

What are you guys doing to control Windows 10 update from downloading updates 
whenever it wants to?  Windows used to have a setting for when it would 
download and install, and now that setting (IF have you have access to the 
Group Policy editor - some Win versions supposedly don') only allows defining 
when it will INSTALL the updates and not when it downloads them.  You can make 
the update process manual I think through settings,  but customers won't ever 
update then, introducing other issues.  So, that isnt a great workaround.  You 
can also set an interface to "metered" which means it won't DL until it gets an 
unmetered connection but that won't help either.

Today 3 customers (plus my PC) were killing an AP, all connected to Microsoft 
presumably downloading updates as mine was from that IP.  That is what my PC 
was doing when I caught the problem.  All customers and myself were connected 
to the same MS IP address.

Even if customers had access to GPEDIT, and if it had that ability, talking 
customers through that would have been a not fun job for tech support for all 
the Win10 devices out there now.  Supposedly, not all versions of Win 10 have 
access to GPEDIT easily.  GPEDIT does have a setting for maximum DL for updates 
which helps but that would only slow things down for a lng time to get 
updaes.  Much better to have it do full updates after midnight.

Was wondering if there was something that could be defined at the customers CPE 
Mikrotik (in place at 95% of our customers) or at the tower Mikrotik.

There has to be some solution.

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Addition to new site.

[Sam Lambie]

Ok Thanks. The Syncbox is new as of a month ago.
Cabling from to Medusa is RJ-12 using pins 1 and 6 for sync. I have a
feeling that I need to use a different termination
What is the proper termination type and cabling pinout? Your site is
lacking on documentation.

Thanks
Sam

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> This is definitely in the weird category.
>
> Can you verify how old this syncbox 12 is?   I'm guessing that it is new
> from us in February.
>
> Can you also let me know how you cabled the syncbox to the medusa?
>
> The two weird items here are:
>
> 1) Why is it not picking up sync from the timing port?   (Cabling issue?
> There's a special cable from the syncbox to the aux port since the aux port
> is a 8p8c with a different pinout)
>
> 2) Why does it think it's picking up sync from the power port?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:45 AM, Sam Lambie  wrote:
>
>> Well, That didn't work... I turned off Sync to the radio via the Site
>> Monitor on Friday and the Radio still flopped all weekend. It still thinks
>> it is getting sync from the power port and never has indicated that it is
>> getting sync from the timing port. Are there any settings on the radio that
>> I am missing?
>> [image: Inline image 1]
>> [image: Inline image 2]
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 5:53 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, that was correct, and yes, as long as it's a recent syncbox it
>>> should work fine.
>>>
>>> -forrest
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Sam Lambie 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I just did that and will monitor it over the weekend. Thanks for the
 tip. Lastly, The Sync coming out of the Sync Box into the timing port of
 the Medusa should work right?

 On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Sam Lambie 
 wrote:

> Changing the value function on the Radio 4 Sync from 1 to 0 will do
> the trick?
>
> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> This error means you have sync over power pulses coming in from the
>> syncinjector.
>>
>> The radio is seeing the old-style pulses and is trying to lock onto
>> them, which won't work reliably - since the pulses aren't even close to
>> what it's expecting.
>>
>> You need to disable the pulses in the injector in some way.   If
>> you've got a SiteMonitor base unit attached, just turn off sync on those
>> ports.   If you don't, then just use a cambium power supply and skip the
>> injector, or if you don't have any radios which need the sync over power
>> pulse attached to the injector, make a cable shorting pins 1 and 2 of a
>> RJ45 jack and plug that into the sync input port on the syncinjector.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Sam Lambie 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Medusa doesn't seem to like the packetflux gps. I am getting this
>>> most of the time.
>>>
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:12:44 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:12:45 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:12:45 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:00 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:03 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:03 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:03 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:05 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:05 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:05 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:07 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:07 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:07 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:09 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:09 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:09 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:12 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:12 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:12 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:14 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:14 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:14 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:16 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:16 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:21 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:23 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:23 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:23 MDT 

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik speed test...

[Robert Andrews]

Merci!

On 04/17/2017 07:43 AM, Joe Novak wrote:

https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=104266 - Two public 10G test
servers. I don't know if LinkTechs still has a setup in the midwest or not..

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Robert Andrews > wrote:

Hi all,
I just upgraded a circuit and need to verify speed.  I saved
an email with an external MT bandwidth test to it but can't find the
email. I guess I should have marked it special..  Anyone help out
with one of the locations that someone is providing one of those?

Thanks a bunch,
Robert

Re: [AFMUG] Addition to new site.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

This is definitely in the weird category.

Can you verify how old this syncbox 12 is?   I'm guessing that it is new
from us in February.

Can you also let me know how you cabled the syncbox to the medusa?

The two weird items here are:

1) Why is it not picking up sync from the timing port?   (Cabling issue?
There's a special cable from the syncbox to the aux port since the aux port
is a 8p8c with a different pinout)

2) Why does it think it's picking up sync from the power port?



On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:45 AM, Sam Lambie  wrote:

> Well, That didn't work... I turned off Sync to the radio via the Site
> Monitor on Friday and the Radio still flopped all weekend. It still thinks
> it is getting sync from the power port and never has indicated that it is
> getting sync from the timing port. Are there any settings on the radio that
> I am missing?
> [image: Inline image 1]
> [image: Inline image 2]
>
> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 5:53 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, that was correct, and yes, as long as it's a recent syncbox it
>> should work fine.
>>
>> -forrest
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Sam Lambie  wrote:
>>
>>> I just did that and will monitor it over the weekend. Thanks for the
>>> tip. Lastly, The Sync coming out of the Sync Box into the timing port of
>>> the Medusa should work right?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Sam Lambie 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Changing the value function on the Radio 4 Sync from 1 to 0 will do the
 trick?

 On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
 li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> This error means you have sync over power pulses coming in from the
> syncinjector.
>
> The radio is seeing the old-style pulses and is trying to lock onto
> them, which won't work reliably - since the pulses aren't even close to
> what it's expecting.
>
> You need to disable the pulses in the injector in some way.   If
> you've got a SiteMonitor base unit attached, just turn off sync on those
> ports.   If you don't, then just use a cambium power supply and skip the
> injector, or if you don't have any radios which need the sync over power
> pulse attached to the injector, make a cable shorting pins 1 and 2 of a
> RJ45 jack and plug that into the sync input port on the syncinjector.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Sam Lambie 
> wrote:
>
>> Medusa doesn't seem to like the packetflux gps. I am getting this
>> most of the time.
>>
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:12:44 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:12:45 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:12:45 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:00 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:03 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:03 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:03 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:05 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:05 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:05 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:07 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:07 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:07 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:09 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:09 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:09 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:12 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:12 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:12 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:14 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:14 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:14 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:16 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:16 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:21 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:23 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:23 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:23 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:25 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:25 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:27 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:30 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:30 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:30 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
>> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:32 MDT : Lost sync pulse from 

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Oh, a couple of things I meant to add but forgot:

Other shippable media is an option as well  I thankfully haven't had to
deal with tapes recently, but it looks like single tapes will hold around
6TB.  The advantage of tapes is you have a copy of the data if something
happens to your storage in the datacenter.

On the updates, If this data is bursty, you might want to consider moving
the updates via fedex as well.



On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:36 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> For the seed you need to understand this quote:
>
> "*Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
> hurtling down the highway*." —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989). Computer
> Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. p. 57. ISBN 0-13-166836-6.
>
> I'd highly recommend you think about how to move that seed via Fedex or
> UPS.You're already going to be storing the data somewhere, if possible,
> take whatever it is your storing it on (or backing it up on) to the origin
> location and copy it to it *then* ship it to and install it in your
> datacenter.   It is likely that the cost of doing this will actually be
> less than the cost of buying a circuit which will do this in a reasonable
> amount of time, especially if you are buying a piece of hardware to store
> this data (likely).
>
> For the updates,  4pb per year is just over 1Mb/s if I did the math
> correctly   This is in the realm of normal internet, assuming the data
> grows gradually throughout a year.
>
> I'll let others point you toward a 10Gig wave if you'd rather not use the
> "move media" approach.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Zach Underwood 
> wrote:
>
>> I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project where
>> will be getting data from a human genome company. What would be a option
>> for move the data between our datacenter and there datacenter? We are in
>> the southeast and they are in the midwest. The data amount would be a seed
>> of 5pb and growth of 4pb per year. The networking on our side would be
>> 100gbit LAN.
>>
>> --
>> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
>> My website 
>> advance-networking.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] Addition to new site.

[Sam Lambie]

Well, That didn't work... I turned off Sync to the radio via the Site
Monitor on Friday and the Radio still flopped all weekend. It still thinks
it is getting sync from the power port and never has indicated that it is
getting sync from the timing port. Are there any settings on the radio that
I am missing?
[image: Inline image 1]
[image: Inline image 2]

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 5:53 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Yes, that was correct, and yes, as long as it's a recent syncbox it should
> work fine.
>
> -forrest
>
> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Sam Lambie  wrote:
>
>> I just did that and will monitor it over the weekend. Thanks for the tip.
>> Lastly, The Sync coming out of the Sync Box into the timing port of the
>> Medusa should work right?
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Sam Lambie  wrote:
>>
>>> Changing the value function on the Radio 4 Sync from 1 to 0 will do the
>>> trick?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>>
 This error means you have sync over power pulses coming in from the
 syncinjector.

 The radio is seeing the old-style pulses and is trying to lock onto
 them, which won't work reliably - since the pulses aren't even close to
 what it's expecting.

 You need to disable the pulses in the injector in some way.   If you've
 got a SiteMonitor base unit attached, just turn off sync on those ports.
 If you don't, then just use a cambium power supply and skip the injector,
 or if you don't have any radios which need the sync over power pulse
 attached to the injector, make a cable shorting pins 1 and 2 of a RJ45 jack
 and plug that into the sync input port on the syncinjector.



 On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Sam Lambie 
 wrote:

> Medusa doesn't seem to like the packetflux gps. I am getting this most
> of the time.
>
> 04/13/2017 : 09:12:44 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:12:45 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:12:45 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:00 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:03 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:03 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:03 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:05 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:05 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:05 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:07 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:07 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:07 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:09 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:09 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:09 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:12 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:12 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:12 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:14 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:14 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:14 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:16 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:16 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:21 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:23 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:23 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:23 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:25 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:25 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:27 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:30 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:30 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:30 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:32 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:32 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:32 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:33 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:33 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:37 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:39 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:39 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:48 MDT : Acquired sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:51 MDT : Lost sync pulse from Power Port
> 04/13/2017 : 09:13:51 MDT : Generating Sync - Free Run

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik speed test...

[Joe Novak]

https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=104266 - Two public 10G test
servers. I don't know if LinkTechs still has a setup in the midwest or not..

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> Hi all,
> I just upgraded a circuit and need to verify speed.  I saved an
> email with an external MT bandwidth test to it but can't find the email. I
> guess I should have marked it special..  Anyone help out with one of the
> locations that someone is providing one of those?
>
> Thanks a bunch,
> Robert
>

[AFMUG] Mikrotik speed test...

[Robert Andrews]

Hi all,
	I just upgraded a circuit and need to verify speed.  I saved an email 
with an external MT bandwidth test to it but can't find the email. I 
guess I should have marked it special..  Anyone help out with one of the 
locations that someone is providing one of those?


Thanks a bunch,
Robert

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

For the seed you need to understand this quote:

"*Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
hurtling down the highway*." —Tanenbaum, Andrew S. (1989). Computer
Networks. New Jersey: Prentice-Hall. p. 57. ISBN 0-13-166836-6.

I'd highly recommend you think about how to move that seed via Fedex or
UPS.You're already going to be storing the data somewhere, if possible,
take whatever it is your storing it on (or backing it up on) to the origin
location and copy it to it *then* ship it to and install it in your
datacenter.   It is likely that the cost of doing this will actually be
less than the cost of buying a circuit which will do this in a reasonable
amount of time, especially if you are buying a piece of hardware to store
this data (likely).

For the updates,  4pb per year is just over 1Mb/s if I did the math
correctly   This is in the realm of normal internet, assuming the data
grows gradually throughout a year.

I'll let others point you toward a 10Gig wave if you'd rather not use the
"move media" approach.


On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Zach Underwood 
wrote:

> I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project where
> will be getting data from a human genome company. What would be a option
> for move the data between our datacenter and there datacenter? We are in
> the southeast and they are in the midwest. The data amount would be a seed
> of 5pb and growth of 4pb per year. The networking on our side would be
> 100gbit LAN.
>
> --
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
> My website 
> advance-networking.com
>



-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] Verizon Email to Text Gateway

[George Skorup]

From one of my BIND servers exiting one upstream, I'm seeing...
smtpin01.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.202.0.158 = PTR 
vzwgw5003a.a.cloudfilter.net
smtpin02.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.36.60.220 = PTR 
vzwgw6003a.a.cloudfilter.net


Another exiting another upstream...
smtpin01.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.202.0.158 = PTR 
vzwgw5003a.a.cloudfilter.net
smtpin02.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.10.83.138 = PTR 
vzwgw6002a.a.cloudfilter.net


And yet another...
smtpin01.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.16.175.197 = PTR 
vzwgw5001a.a.cloudfilter.net
smtpin02.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net = 52.11.98.232 = PTR 
vzwgw6001a.a.cloudfilter.net


And a slightly different response when using 8.8.8.8.

I'm sure these are all hitting different load-balancers coming in on 
different peers of theirs. So this is probably a case where it wouldn't 
be a terrible idea to use 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 as tertiary resolvers at 
least on your monitoring systems.


On 4/17/2017 7:57 AM, Andy Trimmell wrote:

Both of those addresses report as down.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 8:49 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Verizon Email to Text Gateway

I didn't want tho post this over on the Outages list, since I hadn't seen 
anything there, I figured it is just me, but you guys are cooler to tell me 
that it's just my problem.

I'm getting errors starting yesterday trying to email phonenum...@vtext.com  
some messages are going through, but most are not.  I'm not getting rejections, 
just this SMTP Reply, so they sit in my outbound queue.

DNS query 'vtext.com' 0 (2) [OK - 2]
Connecting to 'smtpin01.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net'
421 vzw-ibgw-5002a.stratus.cloudmark.com cmsmtp ESMTP server temporarily not 
available

Anyone else seeing Verizon Email to text issues.

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Josh Reynolds]

I'll tell you what other companies do here, and you might be surprised.

Tapes and FedEx.

Shock resistant, and a pallet of tapes doesn't clog your wan. It scales
pretty darn well. I am currently a SME contractor for a large federal
agency that does this, and private industry does this as well.

- Josh

On Apr 17, 2017 9:04 AM, "Zach Underwood"  wrote:

> I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project where
> will be getting data from a human genome company. What would be a option
> for move the data between our datacenter and there datacenter? We are in
> the southeast and they are in the midwest. The data amount would be a seed
> of 5pb and growth of 4pb per year. The networking on our side would be
> 100gbit LAN.
>
> --
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
> My website 
> advance-networking.com
>

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Zach Underwood]

At this time I dont know the other location as this is just the start of
the talks. With a 10gbit wave can it cross different provides?

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> A 10 Gig wave would transfer it in about two to three weeks. Let me know
> the A and Z offlist and I can line up who would be good contenders for that.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Zach Underwood" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, April 17, 2017 9:04:54 AM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] bulk data transfer
>
>
> I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project where
> will be getting data from a human genome company. What would be a option
> for move the data between our datacenter and there datacenter? We are in
> the southeast and they are in the midwest. The data amount would be a seed
> of 5pb and growth of 4pb per year. The networking on our side would be
> 100gbit LAN.
>
> --
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
> My website 
> advance-networking.com
>
>


-- 
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com

Re: [AFMUG] Canopy SNMP and Spectrum Analysis

[Matt]

Closest I found:

http://169.254.1.1/SpectrumAnalysis.xml


> Is there anyway to retrieve the results of a spectrum analysis from canopy
> gear with snmp?
>

Re: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Mike Hammett]

A 10 Gig wave would transfer it in about two to three weeks. Let me know the A 
and Z offlist and I can line up who would be good contenders for that. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Zach Underwood"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 9:04:54 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] bulk data transfer 



I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project where will be 
getting data from a human genome company. What would be a option for move the 
data between our datacenter and there datacenter? We are in the southeast and 
they are in the midwest. The data amount would be a seed of 5pb and growth of 
4pb per year. The networking on our side would be 100gbit LAN. 

-- 






Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT, UACA ) 


My website 

advance-networking.com 

[AFMUG] bulk data transfer

[Zach Underwood]

I work for a medical data company and we have a possible project where will
be getting data from a human genome company. What would be a option for
move the data between our datacenter and there datacenter? We are in the
southeast and they are in the midwest. The data amount would be a seed of
5pb and growth of 4pb per year. The networking on our side would be 100gbit
LAN.

-- 
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com

Re: [AFMUG] Verizon Email to Text Gateway

[Andy Trimmell]

Both of those addresses report as down.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 8:49 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Verizon Email to Text Gateway

I didn't want tho post this over on the Outages list, since I hadn't seen 
anything there, I figured it is just me, but you guys are cooler to tell me 
that it's just my problem.

I'm getting errors starting yesterday trying to email phonenum...@vtext.com  
some messages are going through, but most are not.  I'm not getting rejections, 
just this SMTP Reply, so they sit in my outbound queue.

DNS query 'vtext.com' 0 (2) [OK - 2]
Connecting to 'smtpin01.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net'
421 vzw-ibgw-5002a.stratus.cloudmark.com cmsmtp ESMTP server temporarily not 
available

Anyone else seeing Verizon Email to text issues.

[AFMUG] Verizon Email to Text Gateway

[Nate Burke]

I didn't want tho post this over on the Outages list, since I hadn't 
seen anything there, I figured it is just me, but you guys are cooler to 
tell me that it's just my problem.


I'm getting errors starting yesterday trying to email 
phonenum...@vtext.com  some messages are going through, but most are 
not.  I'm not getting rejections, just this SMTP Reply, so they sit in 
my outbound queue.


DNS query 'vtext.com' 0 (2) [OK - 2]
Connecting to 'smtpin01.vzw.a.cloudfilter.net'
421 vzw-ibgw-5002a.stratus.cloudmark.com cmsmtp ESMTP server temporarily 
not available


Anyone else seeing Verizon Email to text issues.