Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Jeremy]

LOL.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

> So who's the father?
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
>> My wife got me with, "it's a puppy or a baby".  I bought her a puppy.
>> Now, we have three kids and a dog.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So I asked the old lady if I could take the Christmas fund and invest it
>>> in bitcoin, figured shed say no. but now she has me in a bind. "Yes, as
>>> long as we can get a puppy right now"
>>>
>>> guys, I need some financial advice here. I know what happens when a
>>> woman gets a puppy, she gets another puppy and another, and another. Im not
>>> a math magician so I cant figure out how to calculate BC rate of return
>>> agains some logarithmic increase in puppy population. Im afraid bitcoin
>>> could top one million and i still wont be able to afford the dog food
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:55 AM, Robert  wrote:
>>>
 Then you find out it's actually some guy in the back using a pyramid to
 make the profits...

 On 12/7/17 9:34 AM, Jesse DuPont wrote:

> You guys should check out aitrader.us. It uses a custom algorithm and
> GDAX (coinbase) API to do auto-trading for you, based on the thresholds 
> you
> set. High-level overview: it will potentially buy BTC every 4 hours, based
> on the moving average and your buy sensitivity setting. For selling back 
> to
> USD, it looks every minute at the BTC value (compared to USD) and once it
> falls below your trailing stop threshold, it issues API command to trade
> back to USD.
>
> So during all this, my account auto traded to BTC yesterday at 4:00 AM
> and it just traded back to USD today at 4:34 PM. I gained 45% and didn't
> have to babysit it!
>
> Aitrader.us is $99/mo so you'd need to have a few thousand USD
> trading, but unless BTC has a downward moving average over mutliple weeks,
> you'll almost always gain because the actual BTC value doesn't matter, 
> just
> the relative gains between buys and sell.
>
> If you sign up, my referral code i/s BZQECIBCDOZK/ and we both get $40
> USD put into our accounts.
>
> *_Jesse DuPont_*
>
> Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC
>
> Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>
> On 12/7/17 9:36 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>
>> I had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :) This is
>> nuts.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Steve Jones]

lol you mean to tell me an unmonitored, untraceable crime associated
commodity might be manipulated by some shady characters.. no way


for real though, i was reading an article that says its going live on one
of the real exchanges tommorrow or the next day? If thats the case this
would all make sense, apparently there are alot of companies right now with
inflated values even though theyre not profitable due to their blockchain
associations. Its outside my scope, but it painted a dangerous and dismal
picture in regard to this years market gains,

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 8:44 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> I'm now considering if it's the banks and huge money holders that are
> setting this up for pump/dump.
>
> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
> > I had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :) This is
> nuts.
> >
> > Travis
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Josh Reynolds]

I'm now considering if it's the banks and huge money holders that are
setting this up for pump/dump.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
> I had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :) This is nuts.
>
> Travis
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Mark Radabaugh]

That’s a bitch of a problem if ever there was one.

> On Dec 7, 2017, at 1:24 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> So I asked the old lady if I could take the Christmas fund and invest it in 
> bitcoin, figured shed say no. but now she has me in a bind. "Yes, as long as 
> we can get a puppy right now"
> 
> guys, I need some financial advice here. I know what happens when a woman 
> gets a puppy, she gets another puppy and another, and another. Im not a math 
> magician so I cant figure out how to calculate BC rate of return agains some 
> logarithmic increase in puppy population. Im afraid bitcoin could top one 
> million and i still wont be able to afford the dog food
> 
> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:55 AM, Robert  > wrote:
> Then you find out it's actually some guy in the back using a pyramid to make 
> the profits...
> 
> On 12/7/17 9:34 AM, Jesse DuPont wrote:
> You guys should check out aitrader.us . It uses a custom 
> algorithm and GDAX (coinbase) API to do auto-trading for you, based on the 
> thresholds you set. High-level overview: it will potentially buy BTC every 4 
> hours, based on the moving average and your buy sensitivity setting. For 
> selling back to USD, it looks every minute at the BTC value (compared to USD) 
> and once it falls below your trailing stop threshold, it issues API command 
> to trade back to USD.
> 
> So during all this, my account auto traded to BTC yesterday at 4:00 AM and it 
> just traded back to USD today at 4:34 PM. I gained 45% and didn't have to 
> babysit it!
> 
> Aitrader.us is $99/mo so you'd need to have a few thousand USD trading, but 
> unless BTC has a downward moving average over mutliple weeks, you'll almost 
> always gain because the actual BTC value doesn't matter, just the relative 
> gains between buys and sell.
> 
> If you sign up, my referral code i/s BZQECIBCDOZK/ and we both get $40 USD 
> put into our accounts.
> 
> *_Jesse DuPont_*
> 
> Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net 
> Celerity Networks LLC
> 
> Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc 
> 
> 
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband 
> 
> 
> On 12/7/17 9:36 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
> I had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :) This is nuts.
> 
> Travis
> 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Lewis Bergman]

My wife told me I either had to sit and talk to her all the time and stare
lovingly into her eyes or get her a puppy. The dog is 13 years old and I
think we are both happier.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 1:28 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:

> So who's the father?
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
>> My wife got me with, "it's a puppy or a baby".  I bought her a puppy.
>> Now, we have three kids and a dog.
>>
> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
> So I asked the old lady if I could take the Christmas fund and invest it
>>> in bitcoin, figured shed say no. but now she has me in a bind. "Yes, as
>>> long as we can get a puppy right now"
>>>
>>> guys, I need some financial advice here. I know what happens when a
>>> woman gets a puppy, she gets another puppy and another, and another. Im not
>>> a math magician so I cant figure out how to calculate BC rate of return
>>> agains some logarithmic increase in puppy population. Im afraid bitcoin
>>> could top one million and i still wont be able to afford the dog food
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:55 AM, Robert  wrote:
>>>
 Then you find out it's actually some guy in the back using a pyramid to
 make the profits...

 On 12/7/17 9:34 AM, Jesse DuPont wrote:

> You guys should check out aitrader.us. It uses a custom algorithm and
> GDAX (coinbase) API to do auto-trading for you, based on the thresholds 
> you
> set. High-level overview: it will potentially buy BTC every 4 hours, based
> on the moving average and your buy sensitivity setting. For selling back 
> to
> USD, it looks every minute at the BTC value (compared to USD) and once it
> falls below your trailing stop threshold, it issues API command to trade
> back to USD.
>
> So during all this, my account auto traded to BTC yesterday at 4:00 AM
> and it just traded back to USD today at 4:34 PM. I gained 45% and didn't
> have to babysit it!
>
> Aitrader.us is $99/mo so you'd need to have a few thousand USD
> trading, but unless BTC has a downward moving average over mutliple weeks,
> you'll almost always gain because the actual BTC value doesn't matter, 
> just
> the relative gains between buys and sell.
>
> If you sign up, my referral code i/s BZQECIBCDOZK/ and we both get $40
> USD put into our accounts.
>
> *_Jesse DuPont_*
>
> Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC
>
> Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>
> On 12/7/17 9:36 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>
>> I had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :) This is
>> nuts.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Cameron Crum]

So who's the father?


On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

> My wife got me with, "it's a puppy or a baby".  I bought her a puppy.
> Now, we have three kids and a dog.
>
> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> So I asked the old lady if I could take the Christmas fund and invest it
>> in bitcoin, figured shed say no. but now she has me in a bind. "Yes, as
>> long as we can get a puppy right now"
>>
>> guys, I need some financial advice here. I know what happens when a woman
>> gets a puppy, she gets another puppy and another, and another. Im not a
>> math magician so I cant figure out how to calculate BC rate of return
>> agains some logarithmic increase in puppy population. Im afraid bitcoin
>> could top one million and i still wont be able to afford the dog food
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:55 AM, Robert  wrote:
>>
>>> Then you find out it's actually some guy in the back using a pyramid to
>>> make the profits...
>>>
>>> On 12/7/17 9:34 AM, Jesse DuPont wrote:
>>>
 You guys should check out aitrader.us. It uses a custom algorithm and
 GDAX (coinbase) API to do auto-trading for you, based on the thresholds you
 set. High-level overview: it will potentially buy BTC every 4 hours, based
 on the moving average and your buy sensitivity setting. For selling back to
 USD, it looks every minute at the BTC value (compared to USD) and once it
 falls below your trailing stop threshold, it issues API command to trade
 back to USD.

 So during all this, my account auto traded to BTC yesterday at 4:00 AM
 and it just traded back to USD today at 4:34 PM. I gained 45% and didn't
 have to babysit it!

 Aitrader.us is $99/mo so you'd need to have a few thousand USD trading,
 but unless BTC has a downward moving average over mutliple weeks, you'll
 almost always gain because the actual BTC value doesn't matter, just the
 relative gains between buys and sell.

 If you sign up, my referral code i/s BZQECIBCDOZK/ and we both get $40
 USD put into our accounts.

 *_Jesse DuPont_*

 Network Architect
 email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
 Celerity Networks LLC

 Celerity Broadband LLC
 Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

 Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband

 On 12/7/17 9:36 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:

> I had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :) This is
> nuts.
>
> Travis
>
>

>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Jeremy]

My wife got me with, "it's a puppy or a baby".  I bought her a puppy.  Now,
we have three kids and a dog.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> So I asked the old lady if I could take the Christmas fund and invest it
> in bitcoin, figured shed say no. but now she has me in a bind. "Yes, as
> long as we can get a puppy right now"
>
> guys, I need some financial advice here. I know what happens when a woman
> gets a puppy, she gets another puppy and another, and another. Im not a
> math magician so I cant figure out how to calculate BC rate of return
> agains some logarithmic increase in puppy population. Im afraid bitcoin
> could top one million and i still wont be able to afford the dog food
>
> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:55 AM, Robert  wrote:
>
>> Then you find out it's actually some guy in the back using a pyramid to
>> make the profits...
>>
>> On 12/7/17 9:34 AM, Jesse DuPont wrote:
>>
>>> You guys should check out aitrader.us. It uses a custom algorithm and
>>> GDAX (coinbase) API to do auto-trading for you, based on the thresholds you
>>> set. High-level overview: it will potentially buy BTC every 4 hours, based
>>> on the moving average and your buy sensitivity setting. For selling back to
>>> USD, it looks every minute at the BTC value (compared to USD) and once it
>>> falls below your trailing stop threshold, it issues API command to trade
>>> back to USD.
>>>
>>> So during all this, my account auto traded to BTC yesterday at 4:00 AM
>>> and it just traded back to USD today at 4:34 PM. I gained 45% and didn't
>>> have to babysit it!
>>>
>>> Aitrader.us is $99/mo so you'd need to have a few thousand USD trading,
>>> but unless BTC has a downward moving average over mutliple weeks, you'll
>>> almost always gain because the actual BTC value doesn't matter, just the
>>> relative gains between buys and sell.
>>>
>>> If you sign up, my referral code i/s BZQECIBCDOZK/ and we both get $40
>>> USD put into our accounts.
>>>
>>> *_Jesse DuPont_*
>>>
>>> Network Architect
>>> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
>>> Celerity Networks LLC
>>>
>>> Celerity Broadband LLC
>>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>>>
>>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>>>
>>> On 12/7/17 9:36 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>>
 I had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :) This is
 nuts.

 Travis


>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Steve Jones]

So I asked the old lady if I could take the Christmas fund and invest it in
bitcoin, figured shed say no. but now she has me in a bind. "Yes, as long
as we can get a puppy right now"

guys, I need some financial advice here. I know what happens when a woman
gets a puppy, she gets another puppy and another, and another. Im not a
math magician so I cant figure out how to calculate BC rate of return
agains some logarithmic increase in puppy population. Im afraid bitcoin
could top one million and i still wont be able to afford the dog food

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:55 AM, Robert  wrote:

> Then you find out it's actually some guy in the back using a pyramid to
> make the profits...
>
> On 12/7/17 9:34 AM, Jesse DuPont wrote:
>
>> You guys should check out aitrader.us. It uses a custom algorithm and
>> GDAX (coinbase) API to do auto-trading for you, based on the thresholds you
>> set. High-level overview: it will potentially buy BTC every 4 hours, based
>> on the moving average and your buy sensitivity setting. For selling back to
>> USD, it looks every minute at the BTC value (compared to USD) and once it
>> falls below your trailing stop threshold, it issues API command to trade
>> back to USD.
>>
>> So during all this, my account auto traded to BTC yesterday at 4:00 AM
>> and it just traded back to USD today at 4:34 PM. I gained 45% and didn't
>> have to babysit it!
>>
>> Aitrader.us is $99/mo so you'd need to have a few thousand USD trading,
>> but unless BTC has a downward moving average over mutliple weeks, you'll
>> almost always gain because the actual BTC value doesn't matter, just the
>> relative gains between buys and sell.
>>
>> If you sign up, my referral code i/s BZQECIBCDOZK/ and we both get $40
>> USD put into our accounts.
>>
>> *_Jesse DuPont_*
>>
>> Network Architect
>> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
>> Celerity Networks LLC
>>
>> Celerity Broadband LLC
>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>>
>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>>
>> On 12/7/17 9:36 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> I had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :) This is
>>> nuts.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Robert]

Then you find out it's actually some guy in the back using a pyramid to 
make the profits...


On 12/7/17 9:34 AM, Jesse DuPont wrote:
You guys should check out aitrader.us. It uses a custom algorithm and 
GDAX (coinbase) API to do auto-trading for you, based on the thresholds 
you set. High-level overview: it will potentially buy BTC every 4 hours, 
based on the moving average and your buy sensitivity setting. For 
selling back to USD, it looks every minute at the BTC value (compared to 
USD) and once it falls below your trailing stop threshold, it issues API 
command to trade back to USD.


So during all this, my account auto traded to BTC yesterday at 4:00 AM 
and it just traded back to USD today at 4:34 PM. I gained 45% and didn't 
have to babysit it!


Aitrader.us is $99/mo so you'd need to have a few thousand USD trading, 
but unless BTC has a downward moving average over mutliple weeks, you'll 
almost always gain because the actual BTC value doesn't matter, just the 
relative gains between buys and sell.


If you sign up, my referral code i/s BZQECIBCDOZK/ and we both get $40 
USD put into our accounts.


*_Jesse DuPont_*

Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
Celerity Networks LLC

Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband

On 12/7/17 9:36 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
I had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :) This is 
nuts.


Travis

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Jesse DuPont]

  
  
:) I love this list.


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Jesse DuPont

  Network
  Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC
  Celerity
  Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
  

  

On 12/7/17 10:49 AM, Steve Jones wrote:


  I dont know, i think this is just a long con. you
joined afmug back in the day just to build a credible profile to
get free 40 dollar bills, youve used some russian interference
technology to fill all the sfmug users news feeds with BC fake
news, and have an army of bots on social media pushing this.


Bitcoin probably doesnt even exist


Im on to you
  
  
On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Jesse
  DuPont 
  wrote:
  
 Alert, alert, danger
  Will Robinson...
  
  I don't care if you use the code - I'm winning either way.
  Besides, the referral was a win for both parties and it's
  only $40 USD equivalent in BTC.


  
Jesse DuPont

  Network Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC
  Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
  

  

  
On
  12/7/17 10:39 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

  
  
  is stuff like that whats pushing it at
this pace?
can you imagine how much youll bank if half
  afmug uses your code?
are you a russian bot??
fake news, fake news
  


  On Thu, Dec 7,
  2017 at 11:34 AM, Jesse DuPont 
  wrote:


  

   You
guys should check out aitrader.us. It
uses a custom algorithm and GDAX (coinbase)
API to do auto-trading for you, based on the
thresholds you set. High-level overview: it
will potentially buy BTC every 4 hours,
based on the moving average and your buy
sensitivity setting. For selling back to
USD, it looks every minute at the BTC value
(compared to USD) and once it falls below
your trailing stop threshold, it issues API
command to trade back to USD.

So during all this, my account auto traded
to BTC yesterday at 4:00 AM and it just
traded back to USD today at 4:34 PM. I
gained 45% and didn't have to babysit it!

Aitrader.us is $99/mo so you'd need to have
a few thousand USD trading, but unless BTC
has a downward moving average over mutliple
weeks, you'll almost always gain because the
actual BTC value doesn't matter, just the
relative gains between buys and sell.

If you sign up, my referral code is
  BZQECIBCDOZK and we both get $40 USD
put into our accounts.


  
Jesse
DuPont

  Network
  Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC
  Celerity
  Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
 

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Jesse DuPont]

  
  
He couldn't find a plugin to snag the data directly from GDAX so
that graph is from another exchange.


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Jesse DuPont

  Network
  Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC
  Celerity
  Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
  

  

On 12/7/17 10:47 AM, Jesse DuPont
  wrote:


  
  I'm asking him now...
  
  













  Jesse DuPont
  
Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
Celerity Networks LLC
Celerity Broadband LLC
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband

  

  
  On 12/7/17 10:40 AM, Travis Johnson
wrote:
  
  

Looks cool but they show the peak in the last 2 hours to be
$15,356... yet GDAX itself shows a peak of $20k during that same
time??

Travis


On 12/7/2017 10:34 AM, Jesse DuPont
  wrote:


  
  You guys should check out aitrader.us. It uses a custom
  algorithm and GDAX (coinbase) API to do auto-trading for you,
  based on the thresholds you set. High-level overview: it will
  potentially buy BTC every 4 hours, based on the moving average
  and your buy sensitivity setting. For selling back to USD, it
  looks every minute at the BTC value (compared to USD) and once
  it falls below your trailing stop threshold, it issues API
  command to trade back to USD.
  
  So during all this, my account auto traded to BTC yesterday at
  4:00 AM and it just traded back to USD today at 4:34 PM. I
  gained 45% and didn't have to babysit it!
  
  Aitrader.us is $99/mo so you'd need to have a few thousand USD
  trading, but unless BTC has a downward moving average over
  mutliple weeks, you'll almost always gain because the actual
  BTC value doesn't matter, just the relative gains between buys
  and sell.
  
  If you sign up, my referral code is BZQECIBCDOZK and we
  both get $40 USD put into our accounts.
  
  













  Jesse DuPont
  
Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
Celerity Networks LLC
Celerity Broadband LLC
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband

  

  
  On 12/7/17 9:36 AM, Travis
Johnson wrote:
  
  I
had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :)
This is nuts. 

Travis 

  
  


  
  


  

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Steve Jones]

I dont know, i think this is just a long con. you joined afmug back in the
day just to build a credible profile to get free 40 dollar bills, youve
used some russian interference technology to fill all the sfmug users news
feeds with BC fake news, and have an army of bots on social media pushing
this.

Bitcoin probably doesnt even exist

Im on to you

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Jesse DuPont  wrote:

> Alert, alert, danger Will Robinson...
>
> I don't care if you use the code - I'm winning either way. Besides, the
> referral was a win for both parties and it's only $40 USD equivalent in BTC.
>
> *Jesse DuPont*
>
> Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC
>
> Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
> On 12/7/17 10:39 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> is stuff like that whats pushing it at this pace?
> can you imagine how much youll bank if half afmug uses your code?
> are you a russian bot??
> fake news, fake news
>
> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Jesse DuPont <
> jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> wrote:
>
>> You guys should check out aitrader.us. It uses a custom algorithm and
>> GDAX (coinbase) API to do auto-trading for you, based on the thresholds you
>> set. High-level overview: it will potentially buy BTC every 4 hours, based
>> on the moving average and your buy sensitivity setting. For selling back to
>> USD, it looks every minute at the BTC value (compared to USD) and once it
>> falls below your trailing stop threshold, it issues API command to trade
>> back to USD.
>>
>> So during all this, my account auto traded to BTC yesterday at 4:00 AM
>> and it just traded back to USD today at 4:34 PM. I gained 45% and didn't
>> have to babysit it!
>>
>> Aitrader.us is $99/mo so you'd need to have a few thousand USD trading,
>> but unless BTC has a downward moving average over mutliple weeks, you'll
>> almost always gain because the actual BTC value doesn't matter, just the
>> relative gains between buys and sell.
>>
>> If you sign up, my referral code i*s BZQECIBCDOZK* and we both get $40
>> USD put into our accounts.
>>
>> *Jesse DuPont*
>>
>> Network Architect
>> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
>> Celerity Networks LLC
>>
>> Celerity Broadband LLC
>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>>
>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>> On 12/7/17 9:36 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>
>> I had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :) This is
>> nuts.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Jesse DuPont]

  
  
I'm asking him now...


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Jesse DuPont

  Network
  Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC
  Celerity
  Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
  

  

On 12/7/17 10:40 AM, Travis Johnson
  wrote:


  
  Looks cool but they show the peak in the last 2 hours to be
  $15,356... yet GDAX itself shows a peak of $20k during that same
  time??
  
  Travis
  
  
  On 12/7/2017 10:34 AM, Jesse DuPont
wrote:
  
  

You guys should check out aitrader.us. It uses a custom
algorithm and GDAX (coinbase) API to do auto-trading for you,
based on the thresholds you set. High-level overview: it will
potentially buy BTC every 4 hours, based on the moving average
and your buy sensitivity setting. For selling back to USD, it
looks every minute at the BTC value (compared to USD) and once
it falls below your trailing stop threshold, it issues API
command to trade back to USD.

So during all this, my account auto traded to BTC yesterday at
4:00 AM and it just traded back to USD today at 4:34 PM. I
gained 45% and didn't have to babysit it!

Aitrader.us is $99/mo so you'd need to have a few thousand USD
trading, but unless BTC has a downward moving average over
mutliple weeks, you'll almost always gain because the actual BTC
value doesn't matter, just the relative gains between buys and
sell.

If you sign up, my referral code is BZQECIBCDOZK and we
both get $40 USD put into our accounts.


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Jesse DuPont

  Network Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC
  Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
  

  

On 12/7/17 9:36 AM, Travis Johnson
  wrote:

I
  had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :)
  This is nuts. 
  
  Travis 
  


  
  


  

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Jesse DuPont]

  
  
Alert, alert, danger Will Robinson...

I don't care if you use the code - I'm winning either way. Besides,
the referral was a win for both parties and it's only $40 USD
equivalent in BTC.


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Jesse DuPont

  Network
  Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC
  Celerity
  Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
  

  

On 12/7/17 10:39 AM, Steve Jones wrote:


  is stuff like that whats pushing it at this pace?
can you imagine how much youll bank if half afmug uses your
  code?
are you a russian bot??
fake news, fake news
  
  
On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Jesse
  DuPont 
  wrote:
  
 You guys should check
  out aitrader.us. It uses a custom
  algorithm and GDAX (coinbase) API to do auto-trading for
  you, based on the thresholds you set. High-level overview:
  it will potentially buy BTC every 4 hours, based on the
  moving average and your buy sensitivity setting. For
  selling back to USD, it looks every minute at the BTC
  value (compared to USD) and once it falls below your
  trailing stop threshold, it issues API command to trade
  back to USD.
  
  So during all this, my account auto traded to BTC
  yesterday at 4:00 AM and it just traded back to USD today
  at 4:34 PM. I gained 45% and didn't have to babysit it!
  
  Aitrader.us is $99/mo so you'd need to have a few thousand
  USD trading, but unless BTC has a downward moving average
  over mutliple weeks, you'll almost always gain because the
  actual BTC value doesn't matter, just the relative gains
  between buys and sell.
  
  If you sign up, my referral code is BZQECIBCDOZK
  and we both get $40 USD put into our accounts.
  
  

  Jesse DuPont
  
Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
Celerity Networks LLC
Celerity Broadband LLC
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband

  

  
  
On
  12/7/17 9:36 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:

I had to jump back in this
  morning and now we are at $18k. :) This is nuts. 
  
  Travis 
  


  
  


  


  

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Chris Wright]

Different exchanges trade at different rates based on the amount of buyers and 
sellers they serve. Kinda like how you can buy a Civic at one Honda dealership 
for $20k, and the same exact car at a different dealership for $19k. They’re 
going to be around the same price except during periods of extreme volatility.

 

Chris Wright

Network Administrator

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 9:40 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

 

Looks cool but they show the peak in the last 2 hours to be $15,356... yet 
GDAX itself shows a peak of $20k during that same time??

Travis



On 12/7/2017 10:34 AM, Jesse DuPont wrote:

You guys should check out aitrader.us. It uses a custom algorithm and GDAX 
(coinbase) API to do auto-trading for you, based on the thresholds you set. 
High-level overview: it will potentially buy BTC every 4 hours, based on the 
moving average and your buy sensitivity setting. For selling back to USD, it 
looks every minute at the BTC value (compared to USD) and once it falls below 
your trailing stop threshold, it issues API command to trade back to USD.

So during all this, my account auto traded to BTC yesterday at 4:00 AM and it 
just traded back to USD today at 4:34 PM. I gained 45% and didn't have to 
babysit it!

Aitrader.us is $99/mo so you'd need to have a few thousand USD trading, but 
unless BTC has a downward moving average over mutliple weeks, you'll almost 
always gain because the actual BTC value doesn't matter, just the relative 
gains between buys and sell.

If you sign up, my referral code is BZQECIBCDOZK and we both get $40 USD put 
into our accounts.

Jesse DuPont

Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
Celerity Networks LLC

Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband


On 12/7/17 9:36 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:

I had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :) This is nuts. 

Travis 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Travis Johnson]

Looks cool but they show the peak in the last 2 hours to be 
$15,356... yet GDAX itself shows a peak of $20k during that same time??


Travis


On 12/7/2017 10:34 AM, Jesse DuPont wrote:
You guys should check out aitrader.us. It uses a custom algorithm and 
GDAX (coinbase) API to do auto-trading for you, based on the 
thresholds you set. High-level overview: it will potentially buy BTC 
every 4 hours, based on the moving average and your buy sensitivity 
setting. For selling back to USD, it looks every minute at the BTC 
value (compared to USD) and once it falls below your trailing stop 
threshold, it issues API command to trade back to USD.


So during all this, my account auto traded to BTC yesterday at 4:00 AM 
and it just traded back to USD today at 4:34 PM. I gained 45% and 
didn't have to babysit it!


Aitrader.us is $99/mo so you'd need to have a few thousand USD 
trading, but unless BTC has a downward moving average over mutliple 
weeks, you'll almost always gain because the actual BTC value doesn't 
matter, just the relative gains between buys and sell.


If you sign up, my referral code i/s BZQECIBCDOZK/ and we both get $40 
USD put into our accounts.


*_Jesse DuPont_*

Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
Celerity Networks LLC

Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband

On 12/7/17 9:36 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
I had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :) This is 
nuts.


Travis

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Steve Jones]

is stuff like that whats pushing it at this pace?
can you imagine how much youll bank if half afmug uses your code?
are you a russian bot??
fake news, fake news

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Jesse DuPont  wrote:

> You guys should check out aitrader.us. It uses a custom algorithm and
> GDAX (coinbase) API to do auto-trading for you, based on the thresholds you
> set. High-level overview: it will potentially buy BTC every 4 hours, based
> on the moving average and your buy sensitivity setting. For selling back to
> USD, it looks every minute at the BTC value (compared to USD) and once it
> falls below your trailing stop threshold, it issues API command to trade
> back to USD.
>
> So during all this, my account auto traded to BTC yesterday at 4:00 AM and
> it just traded back to USD today at 4:34 PM. I gained 45% and didn't have
> to babysit it!
>
> Aitrader.us is $99/mo so you'd need to have a few thousand USD trading,
> but unless BTC has a downward moving average over mutliple weeks, you'll
> almost always gain because the actual BTC value doesn't matter, just the
> relative gains between buys and sell.
>
> If you sign up, my referral code i*s BZQECIBCDOZK* and we both get $40
> USD put into our accounts.
>
> *Jesse DuPont*
>
> Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC
>
> Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
> On 12/7/17 9:36 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>
> I had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :) This is
> nuts.
>
> Travis
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Jesse DuPont]

  
  
You guys should check out aitrader.us. It uses a custom algorithm
and GDAX (coinbase) API to do auto-trading for you, based on the
thresholds you set. High-level overview: it will potentially buy BTC
every 4 hours, based on the moving average and your buy sensitivity
setting. For selling back to USD, it looks every minute at the BTC
value (compared to USD) and once it falls below your trailing stop
threshold, it issues API command to trade back to USD.

So during all this, my account auto traded to BTC yesterday at 4:00
AM and it just traded back to USD today at 4:34 PM. I gained 45% and
didn't have to babysit it!

Aitrader.us is $99/mo so you'd need to have a few thousand USD
trading, but unless BTC has a downward moving average over mutliple
weeks, you'll almost always gain because the actual BTC value
doesn't matter, just the relative gains between buys and sell.

If you sign up, my referral code is BZQECIBCDOZK and we both
get $40 USD put into our accounts.


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Jesse DuPont

  Network
  Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC
  Celerity
  Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
  

  

On 12/7/17 9:36 AM, Travis Johnson
  wrote:

I
  had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :) This
  is nuts.
  
  
  Travis
  
  


  

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Robert]

Shorts must be browning their shorts...

On 12/7/17 8:36 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:

I had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :) This is nuts.

Travis

[AFMUG] BTC 18k

[Travis Johnson]

I had to jump back in this morning and now we are at $18k. :) This is nuts.

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] BTC @ $16.5K right now

[Carl Peterson]

Next week

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> Can you short it?
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 12/7/2017 7:14 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>
>> Wow what a rally!
>>
>>
>


-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] BTC @ $16.5K right now

[Bill Prince]

Can you short it?


bp


On 12/7/2017 7:14 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

Wow what a rally!

[AFMUG] BTC @ $16.5K right now

[Gino A. Villarini]

Wow what a rally!

Re: [AFMUG] BTC now almost 1$6k

[Gino A. Villarini]

From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Steve 
Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" 
<af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 at 10:13 PM
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

so you want to have to calculate you BC value ATM when you stop at the gas 
station every time?

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Chuck McCown 
<ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
You base it based on the value of the currency it is replacing.  It it takes 
the place of 5% of all USD in circulation and if there are only 4 billion (or 
whatever) bitcoins theoretically available, it is pretty easy to calculate.

From: Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:18 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

how would you even price items with a currency that fluctuates at this speed? 
You couldnt, youd have to price it on a reference, like the USD, which would be 
kind of a problem if your reference is what youre trying to get rid of, because 
youre awesome cryptocurrency is way betters.

You folks into it should watch out, because im looking to get in on the ride, 
the last time i did that was Keyon, so Im like herpes to investment value

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:11 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
A professor I know calculated that if Bitcoin only got something like 5% of the 
world’s share of currency then it has a theoretical value of $100K or some 
thing like that.  I don’t recall the exact numbers.  Maybe it was just 1%.

From: Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

I am curious, its over 14k right now. whats causing such a substantial gain? 
Given that its "digital infallible"  Im wondering if its not an artificial 
inflation

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:55 PM, Joe Novak <jno...@lrcomm.com> wrote:
I'm glad I'm only out electricity costs, I cash out when I hit the minimum 
don't keep anything on site. With a single card it's been taking maybe 3 or 4 
weeks to hit payout though, and I turn it off when I'm using my PC.



Joe

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
https://www.nicehash.com/ for the TLDR- "we apologize for your rectum 
stretching, we recommend preparation H and have a nice day... seeya wouldnt 
wanna be ya"

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
lulz

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Chris Wright <ch...@velociter.net> wrote:
For Steve. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Louis Arsenault
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:48 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

I can wipe that and make $10... LOL.

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
To a "Batman" usb drive

On 12/06/2017 01:27 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
don't leave your coin on coinbase move it to a more safe wallet or completely 
off line if you're paranoid

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com 
<mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:

I'm waiting for the Coinbase hack...that will really hit hard since
they are handling more transactions than Mastercard.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing
FDIC insurance today?

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com
<mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:

Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak
<jno...@lrcomm.com <mailto:jno...@lrcomm.com>> wrote:

Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to
Nicehash, woke up this morning and my miner isn't
running... hmm.

Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address
(at least unknown to us, the users). 60 million worth of
BTC. I was about half way to my pay out (minimum 0.01
BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread carefully...


Joe

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson
<t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:

I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge
loss. I got back in at $6,400/btc and sold at
$9,800. 

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Steve Jones]

so you want to have to calculate you BC value ATM when you stop at the gas
station every time?

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> You base it based on the value of the currency it is replacing.  It it
> takes the place of 5% of all USD in circulation and if there are only 4
> billion (or whatever) bitcoins theoretically available, it is pretty easy
> to calculate.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:18 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>
> how would you even price items with a currency that fluctuates at this
> speed? You couldnt, youd have to price it on a reference, like the USD,
> which would be kind of a problem if your reference is what youre trying to
> get rid of, because youre awesome cryptocurrency is way betters.
>
> You folks into it should watch out, because im looking to get in on the
> ride, the last time i did that was Keyon, so Im like herpes to investment
> value
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:11 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> A professor I know calculated that if Bitcoin only got something like 5%
>> of the world’s share of currency then it has a theoretical value of $100K
>> or some thing like that.  I don’t recall the exact numbers.  Maybe it was
>> just 1%.
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:04 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>>
>> I am curious, its over 14k right now. whats causing such a substantial
>> gain? Given that its "digital infallible"  Im wondering if its not an
>> artificial inflation
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:55 PM, Joe Novak <jno...@lrcomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm glad I'm only out electricity costs, I cash out when I hit the
>>> minimum don't keep anything on site. With a single card it's been taking
>>> maybe 3 or 4 weeks to hit payout though, and I turn it off when I'm using
>>> my PC.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.nicehash.com/ for the TLDR- "we apologize for your rectum
>>>> stretching, we recommend preparation H and have a nice day... seeya wouldnt
>>>> wanna be ya"
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> lulz
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Chris Wright <ch...@velociter.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> For Steve. J
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Wright
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Network Administrator
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Louis
>>>>>> Arsenault
>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:48 PM
>>>>>> *To:* Animal Farm
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can wipe that and make $10... LOL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Robert Andrews <
>>>>>> i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To a "Batman" usb drive
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/06/2017 01:27 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> don't leave your coin on coinbase move it to a more safe wallet or
>>>>>> completely off line if you're paranoid
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com
>>>>>> <mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm waiting for the Coinbase hack...that will really hit hard
>>>>>> since
>>>>>> they are handling more transactions than Mastercard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Steve Jones
>>>>>> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com&g

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Chuck McCown]

You base it based on the value of the currency it is replacing.  It it takes 
the place of 5% of all USD in circulation and if there are only 4 billion (or 
whatever) bitcoins theoretically available, it is pretty easy to calculate.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:18 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

how would you even price items with a currency that fluctuates at this speed? 
You couldnt, youd have to price it on a reference, like the USD, which would be 
kind of a problem if your reference is what youre trying to get rid of, because 
youre awesome cryptocurrency is way betters. 

You folks into it should watch out, because im looking to get in on the ride, 
the last time i did that was Keyon, so Im like herpes to investment value

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:11 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  A professor I know calculated that if Bitcoin only got something like 5% of 
the world’s share of currency then it has a theoretical value of $100K or some 
thing like that.  I don’t recall the exact numbers.  Maybe it was just 1%.  

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:04 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

  I am curious, its over 14k right now. whats causing such a substantial gain? 
Given that its "digital infallible"  Im wondering if its not an artificial 
inflation

  On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:55 PM, Joe Novak <jno...@lrcomm.com> wrote:

I'm glad I'm only out electricity costs, I cash out when I hit the minimum 
don't keep anything on site. With a single card it's been taking maybe 3 or 4 
weeks to hit payout though, and I turn it off when I'm using my PC. 



Joe

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

  https://www.nicehash.com/ for the TLDR- "we apologize for your rectum 
stretching, we recommend preparation H and have a nice day... seeya wouldnt 
wanna be ya"


  On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

lulz

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Chris Wright <ch...@velociter.net> 
wrote:

  For Steve. J

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg



  Chris Wright

  Network Administrator



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Louis Arsenault
  Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:48 PM
      To: Animal Farm
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+



  I can wipe that and make $10... LOL.



  On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Robert Andrews 
<i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:

  To a "Batman" usb drive

  On 12/06/2017 01:27 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:


  don't leave your coin on coinbase move it to a more safe wallet or 
completely off line if you're paranoid

  On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com 
<mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:

  I'm waiting for the Coinbase hack...that will really hit hard 
since
  they are handling more transactions than Mastercard.

  Regards,
  Chuck

  On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Steve Jones
  <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:

  how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing
  FDIC insurance today?

  On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com
  <mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:

  Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well.

  Regards,
  Chuck

  On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak
  <jno...@lrcomm.com <mailto:jno...@lrcomm.com>> wrote:

  Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power 
to
  Nicehash, woke up this morning and my miner isn't
  running... hmm.

  Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address
  (at least unknown to us, the users). 60 million worth 
of
  BTC. I was about half way to my pay out (minimum 0.01
  BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread 
carefully...


  Joe

  On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson
  <t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:


  I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge
  loss. I got back in at $6,400/btc and sold at
  $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just 
sold
  this morning at $12,700.

  It scares the hell out of me to have m

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Steve Jones]

Thats what i wonder too, if a legitimate company takes bitcoin payments, at
which value do they pay taxes on that transaction?  Is it the value at the
moment, or the value when they cashed out, or the value at the time they
sign their quarterly, and do they have to update that at the end of the
year? What about the change in value of the crypto currency between the
transaction and the cash out, how is that profit or loss taxed? The dollar
stays the same value, its buying power just fluctuates, cryptocurrencies
buying power is directly reelected in its value

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Joe Novak <jno...@lrcomm.com> wrote:

> Funny that you mention that... Valve announced today that they are no
> longer taking BTC. I think most vendors are instantly converting to USD
> instead of holding in BTC, at least that is what I would do if I was
> selling a product while accepting it.
>
> https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/6/16742622/steam-ends-
> support-bitcoin-volatility
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:30 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> im down with that, so long as nobody uses the term extortion and keeps
>> the payments up
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:19 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>
>>> It might be better long term for people to pay you to stay out of
>>> investments.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, December 6, 2017 7:18:27 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>>>
>>> how would you even price items with a currency that fluctuates at this
>>> speed? You couldnt, youd have to price it on a reference, like the USD,
>>> which would be kind of a problem if your reference is what youre trying to
>>> get rid of, because youre awesome cryptocurrency is way betters.
>>>
>>> You folks into it should watch out, because im looking to get in on the
>>> ride, the last time i did that was Keyon, so Im like herpes to investment
>>> value
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:11 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A professor I know calculated that if Bitcoin only got something like
>>>> 5% of the world’s share of currency then it has a theoretical value of
>>>> $100K or some thing like that.  I don’t recall the exact numbers.  Maybe it
>>>> was just 1%.
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:04 PM
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>>>>
>>>> I am curious, its over 14k right now. whats causing such a substantial
>>>> gain? Given that its "digital infallible"  Im wondering if its not an
>>>> artificial inflation
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:55 PM, Joe Novak <jno...@lrcomm.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm glad I'm only out electricity costs, I cash out when I hit the
>>>>> minimum don't keep anything on site. With a single card it's been taking
>>>>> maybe 3 or 4 weeks to hit payout though, and I turn it off when I'm using
>>>>> my PC.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.nicehash.com/ for the TLDR- "we apologize for your
>>>>>> rectum stretching, we recommend preparation H and have a nice day... 
>>>>>> seeya
>>>>>> wouldnt wanna be ya"
>>>>>>
>&

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Joe Novak]

Funny that you mention that... Valve announced today that they are no
longer taking BTC. I think most vendors are instantly converting to USD
instead of holding in BTC, at least that is what I would do if I was
selling a product while accepting it.

https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/6/16742622/steam-ends-support-bitcoin-volatility


On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:30 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> im down with that, so long as nobody uses the term extortion and keeps the
> payments up
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:19 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
>> It might be better long term for people to pay you to stay out of
>> investments.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, December 6, 2017 7:18:27 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>>
>> how would you even price items with a currency that fluctuates at this
>> speed? You couldnt, youd have to price it on a reference, like the USD,
>> which would be kind of a problem if your reference is what youre trying to
>> get rid of, because youre awesome cryptocurrency is way betters.
>>
>> You folks into it should watch out, because im looking to get in on the
>> ride, the last time i did that was Keyon, so Im like herpes to investment
>> value
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:11 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A professor I know calculated that if Bitcoin only got something like 5%
>>> of the world’s share of currency then it has a theoretical value of $100K
>>> or some thing like that.  I don’t recall the exact numbers.  Maybe it was
>>> just 1%.
>>>
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:04 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>>>
>>> I am curious, its over 14k right now. whats causing such a substantial
>>> gain? Given that its "digital infallible"  Im wondering if its not an
>>> artificial inflation
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:55 PM, Joe Novak <jno...@lrcomm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm glad I'm only out electricity costs, I cash out when I hit the
>>>> minimum don't keep anything on site. With a single card it's been taking
>>>> maybe 3 or 4 weeks to hit payout though, and I turn it off when I'm using
>>>> my PC.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.nicehash.com/ for the TLDR- "we apologize for your rectum
>>>>> stretching, we recommend preparation H and have a nice day... seeya 
>>>>> wouldnt
>>>>> wanna be ya"
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> lulz
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Chris Wright <ch...@velociter.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For Steve. J
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris Wright
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Network Administrator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Louis
>>>>>>> Arsenault
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 06,

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Steve Jones]

im down with that, so long as nobody uses the term extortion and keeps the
payments up

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:19 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> It might be better long term for people to pay you to stay out of
> investments.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
> *From: *"Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, December 6, 2017 7:18:27 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>
> how would you even price items with a currency that fluctuates at this
> speed? You couldnt, youd have to price it on a reference, like the USD,
> which would be kind of a problem if your reference is what youre trying to
> get rid of, because youre awesome cryptocurrency is way betters.
>
> You folks into it should watch out, because im looking to get in on the
> ride, the last time i did that was Keyon, so Im like herpes to investment
> value
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:11 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> A professor I know calculated that if Bitcoin only got something like 5%
>> of the world’s share of currency then it has a theoretical value of $100K
>> or some thing like that.  I don’t recall the exact numbers.  Maybe it was
>> just 1%.
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:04 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>>
>> I am curious, its over 14k right now. whats causing such a substantial
>> gain? Given that its "digital infallible"  Im wondering if its not an
>> artificial inflation
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:55 PM, Joe Novak <jno...@lrcomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm glad I'm only out electricity costs, I cash out when I hit the
>>> minimum don't keep anything on site. With a single card it's been taking
>>> maybe 3 or 4 weeks to hit payout though, and I turn it off when I'm using
>>> my PC.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.nicehash.com/ for the TLDR- "we apologize for your rectum
>>>> stretching, we recommend preparation H and have a nice day... seeya wouldnt
>>>> wanna be ya"
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> lulz
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Chris Wright <ch...@velociter.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> For Steve. J
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Wright
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Network Administrator
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Louis
>>>>>> Arsenault
>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:48 PM
>>>>>> *To:* Animal Farm
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can wipe that and make $10... LOL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Robert Andrews <
>>>>>> i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To a "Batman" usb drive
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/06/2017 01:27 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> don't leave your coin on coinbase move it to a more safe wallet or
>>>>>> completely off line if you're paranoid
>>>>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Mike Hammett]

It might be better long term for people to pay you to stay out of investments. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 7:18:27 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+ 


how would you even price items with a currency that fluctuates at this speed? 
You couldnt, youd have to price it on a reference, like the USD, which would be 
kind of a problem if your reference is what youre trying to get rid of, because 
youre awesome cryptocurrency is way betters. 


You folks into it should watch out, because im looking to get in on the ride, 
the last time i did that was Keyon, so Im like herpes to investment value 


On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:11 PM, < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






A professor I know calculated that if Bitcoin only got something like 5% of the 
world’s share of currency then it has a theoretical value of $100K or some 
thing like that. I don’t recall the exact numbers. Maybe it was just 1%. 




From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:04 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+ 


I am curious, its over 14k right now. whats causing such a substantial gain? 
Given that its "digital infallible" Im wondering if its not an artificial 
inflation 




On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:55 PM, Joe Novak < jno...@lrcomm.com > wrote: 



I'm glad I'm only out electricity costs, I cash out when I hit the minimum 
don't keep anything on site. With a single card it's been taking maybe 3 or 4 
weeks to hit payout though, and I turn it off when I'm using my PC. 



Joe 


On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 



https://www.nicehash.com/ for the TLDR- "we apologize for your rectum 
stretching, we recommend preparation H and have a nice day... seeya wouldnt 
wanna be ya" 





On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 





lulz 






On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Chris Wright < ch...@velociter.net > wrote: 







For Steve. J 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg 

Chris Wright 
Network Administrator 

From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Louis Arsenault 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:48 PM 
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+ 


I can wipe that and make $10... LOL. 





On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Robert Andrews < i...@avantwireless.com > 
wrote: 




To a "Batman" usb drive 

On 12/06/2017 01:27 PM, Sean Heskett wrote: 


don't leave your coin on coinbase move it to a more safe wallet or completely 
off line if you're paranoid 

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Chuck Hogg < ch...@shelbybb.com > wrote: 

I'm waiting for the Coinbase hack...that will really hit hard since 
they are handling more transactions than Mastercard. 

Regards, 
Chuck 

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Steve Jones 
< thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 

how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing 
FDIC insurance today? 

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg < ch...@shelbybb.com 
> wrote: 

Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well. 

Regards, 
Chuck 

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak 
< jno...@lrcomm.com > wrote: 

Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to 
Nicehash, woke up this morning and my miner isn't 
running... hmm. 

Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address 
(at least unknown to us, the users). 60 million worth of 
BTC. I was about half way to my pay out (minimum 0.01 
BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread carefully... 


Joe 

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson 
< t...@ida.net > wrote: 

I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge 
loss. I got back in at $6,400/btc and sold at 
$9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just sold 
this morning at $12,700. 

It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting 
there, especially when it could crash while I'm 
asleep at night... but it's also so addictive to 
make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this 
month). 

It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it. 
When you buy in, you are counting on someone willing 
to pay you more than you paid for it, but for no 
good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without 
the .COM. LOL 

Travis 


On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote: 

Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each� 
you still have? 

On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis 
Johnson" 
< af-boun...@afmug.com 
 on behalf of 
t...@ida.net > wrote: 

How high can it go?? When do you sell?? 
What's a "fair" return?? 

Travis 













-- 

-Louis 

NTInet 
O: 803-533-1660 X 207 
C: 803-997-0004 

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Steve Jones]

how would you even price items with a currency that fluctuates at this
speed? You couldnt, youd have to price it on a reference, like the USD,
which would be kind of a problem if your reference is what youre trying to
get rid of, because youre awesome cryptocurrency is way betters.

You folks into it should watch out, because im looking to get in on the
ride, the last time i did that was Keyon, so Im like herpes to investment
value

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:11 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> A professor I know calculated that if Bitcoin only got something like 5%
> of the world’s share of currency then it has a theoretical value of $100K
> or some thing like that.  I don’t recall the exact numbers.  Maybe it was
> just 1%.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:04 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>
> I am curious, its over 14k right now. whats causing such a substantial
> gain? Given that its "digital infallible"  Im wondering if its not an
> artificial inflation
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:55 PM, Joe Novak <jno...@lrcomm.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm glad I'm only out electricity costs, I cash out when I hit the
>> minimum don't keep anything on site. With a single card it's been taking
>> maybe 3 or 4 weeks to hit payout though, and I turn it off when I'm using
>> my PC.
>>
>>
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.nicehash.com/ for the TLDR- "we apologize for your rectum
>>> stretching, we recommend preparation H and have a nice day... seeya wouldnt
>>> wanna be ya"
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> lulz
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Chris Wright <ch...@velociter.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For Steve. J
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Wright
>>>>>
>>>>> Network Administrator
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Louis
>>>>> Arsenault
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:48 PM
>>>>> *To:* Animal Farm
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I can wipe that and make $10... LOL.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> To a "Batman" usb drive
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/06/2017 01:27 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> don't leave your coin on coinbase move it to a more safe wallet or
>>>>> completely off line if you're paranoid
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com
>>>>> <mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm waiting for the Coinbase hack...that will really hit hard since
>>>>> they are handling more transactions than Mastercard.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Steve Jones
>>>>> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing
>>>>> FDIC insurance today?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com
>>>>> <mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak
>>>>> <jno...@lrcomm.com <mailto:jno...@lrcomm.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to
>>>>> Nicehash, woke up this morning and my mine

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[chuck]

A professor I know calculated that if Bitcoin only got something like 5% of the 
world’s share of currency then it has a theoretical value of $100K or some 
thing like that.  I don’t recall the exact numbers.  Maybe it was just 1%.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

I am curious, its over 14k right now. whats causing such a substantial gain? 
Given that its "digital infallible"  Im wondering if its not an artificial 
inflation

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:55 PM, Joe Novak <jno...@lrcomm.com> wrote:

  I'm glad I'm only out electricity costs, I cash out when I hit the minimum 
don't keep anything on site. With a single card it's been taking maybe 3 or 4 
weeks to hit payout though, and I turn it off when I'm using my PC. 



  Joe

  On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://www.nicehash.com/ for the TLDR- "we apologize for your rectum 
stretching, we recommend preparation H and have a nice day... seeya wouldnt 
wanna be ya"


On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

  lulz

  On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Chris Wright <ch...@velociter.net> wrote:

For Steve. J

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg



Chris Wright

Network Administrator



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Louis Arsenault
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:48 PM
    To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+



I can wipe that and make $10... LOL.



On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com> 
wrote:

To a "Batman" usb drive

On 12/06/2017 01:27 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:


don't leave your coin on coinbase move it to a more safe wallet or 
completely off line if you're paranoid

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com 
<mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:

I'm waiting for the Coinbase hack...that will really hit hard since
they are handling more transactions than Mastercard.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:

how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing
FDIC insurance today?

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com
<mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:

Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak
<jno...@lrcomm.com <mailto:jno...@lrcomm.com>> wrote:

Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to
Nicehash, woke up this morning and my miner isn't
running... hmm.

Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address
(at least unknown to us, the users). 60 million worth of
BTC. I was about half way to my pay out (minimum 0.01
BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread 
carefully...


Joe

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson
<t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:


I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge
loss. I got back in at $6,400/btc and sold at
$9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just sold
this morning at $12,700.

It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting
there, especially when it could crash while I'm
asleep at night... but it's also so addictive to
make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this
month).

It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it.
When you buy in, you are counting on someone willing
to pay you more than you paid for it, but for no
good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without
the .COM. LOL

Travis


On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each�
you still have?

On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis
   

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Mike Hammett]

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/500x/25462822/there-are-no-brakes-on-the-hype-train.jpg
 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 7:04:37 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+ 


I am curious, its over 14k right now. whats causing such a substantial gain? 
Given that its "digital infallible" Im wondering if its not an artificial 
inflation 


On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:55 PM, Joe Novak < jno...@lrcomm.com > wrote: 



I'm glad I'm only out electricity costs, I cash out when I hit the minimum 
don't keep anything on site. With a single card it's been taking maybe 3 or 4 
weeks to hit payout though, and I turn it off when I'm using my PC. 






Joe 


On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 



https://www.nicehash.com/ for the TLDR- "we apologize for your rectum 
stretching, we recommend preparation H and have a nice day... seeya wouldnt 
wanna be ya" 





On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 





lulz 






On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Chris Wright < ch...@velociter.net > wrote: 







For Steve. J 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg 

Chris Wright 
Network Administrator 

From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Louis Arsenault 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:48 PM 
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+ 


I can wipe that and make $10... LOL. 





On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Robert Andrews < i...@avantwireless.com > 
wrote: 




To a "Batman" usb drive 

On 12/06/2017 01:27 PM, Sean Heskett wrote: 


don't leave your coin on coinbase move it to a more safe wallet or completely 
off line if you're paranoid 

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Chuck Hogg < ch...@shelbybb.com > wrote: 

I'm waiting for the Coinbase hack...that will really hit hard since 
they are handling more transactions than Mastercard. 

Regards, 
Chuck 

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Steve Jones 
< thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 

how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing 
FDIC insurance today? 

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg < ch...@shelbybb.com 
> wrote: 

Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well. 

Regards, 
Chuck 

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak 
< jno...@lrcomm.com > wrote: 

Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to 
Nicehash, woke up this morning and my miner isn't 
running... hmm. 

Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address 
(at least unknown to us, the users). 60 million worth of 
BTC. I was about half way to my pay out (minimum 0.01 
BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread carefully... 


Joe 

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson 
< t...@ida.net > wrote: 

I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge 
loss. I got back in at $6,400/btc and sold at 
$9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just sold 
this morning at $12,700. 

It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting 
there, especially when it could crash while I'm 
asleep at night... but it's also so addictive to 
make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this 
month). 

It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it. 
When you buy in, you are counting on someone willing 
to pay you more than you paid for it, but for no 
good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without 
the .COM. LOL 

Travis 


On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote: 

Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each� 
you still have? 

On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis 
Johnson" 
< af-boun...@afmug.com 
 on behalf of 
t...@ida.net > wrote: 

How high can it go?? When do you sell?? 
What's a "fair" return?? 

Travis 














-- 

-Louis 

NTInet 
O: 803-533-1660 X 207 
C: 803-997-0004 

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Steve Jones]

I am curious, its over 14k right now. whats causing such a substantial
gain? Given that its "digital infallible"  Im wondering if its not an
artificial inflation

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:55 PM, Joe Novak <jno...@lrcomm.com> wrote:

> I'm glad I'm only out electricity costs, I cash out when I hit the minimum
> don't keep anything on site. With a single card it's been taking maybe 3 or
> 4 weeks to hit payout though, and I turn it off when I'm using my PC.
>
>
>
> Joe
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> https://www.nicehash.com/ for the TLDR- "we apologize for your rectum
>> stretching, we recommend preparation H and have a nice day... seeya wouldnt
>> wanna be ya"
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> lulz
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Chris Wright <ch...@velociter.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> For Steve. J
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris Wright
>>>>
>>>> Network Administrator
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Louis Arsenault
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:48 PM
>>>> *To:* Animal Farm
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I can wipe that and make $10... LOL.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> To a "Batman" usb drive
>>>>
>>>> On 12/06/2017 01:27 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>>>>
>>>> don't leave your coin on coinbase move it to a more safe wallet or
>>>> completely off line if you're paranoid
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com >>> ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm waiting for the Coinbase hack...that will really hit hard since
>>>> they are handling more transactions than Mastercard.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Chuck
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Steve Jones
>>>> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing
>>>> FDIC insurance today?
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com
>>>> <mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Chuck
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak
>>>> <jno...@lrcomm.com <mailto:jno...@lrcomm.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to
>>>> Nicehash, woke up this morning and my miner isn't
>>>> running... hmm.
>>>>
>>>> Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address
>>>> (at least unknown to us, the users). 60 million worth of
>>>> BTC. I was about half way to my pay out (minimum 0.01
>>>> BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread
>>>> carefully...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson
>>>> <t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge
>>>> loss. I got back in at $6,400/btc and sold at
>>>> $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just sold
>>>> this morning at $12,700.
>>>>
>>>> It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting
>>>> there, especially when it could crash while I'm
>>>>   

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Joe Novak]

I'm glad I'm only out electricity costs, I cash out when I hit the minimum
don't keep anything on site. With a single card it's been taking maybe 3 or
4 weeks to hit payout though, and I turn it off when I'm using my PC.



Joe

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> https://www.nicehash.com/ for the TLDR- "we apologize for your rectum
> stretching, we recommend preparation H and have a nice day... seeya wouldnt
> wanna be ya"
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> lulz
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Chris Wright <ch...@velociter.net> wrote:
>>
>>> For Steve. J
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris Wright
>>>
>>> Network Administrator
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Louis Arsenault
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:48 PM
>>> *To:* Animal Farm
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I can wipe that and make $10... LOL.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> To a "Batman" usb drive
>>>
>>> On 12/06/2017 01:27 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>>>
>>> don't leave your coin on coinbase move it to a more safe wallet or
>>> completely off line if you're paranoid
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com >> ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm waiting for the Coinbase hack...that will really hit hard since
>>> they are handling more transactions than Mastercard.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Steve Jones
>>> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing
>>> FDIC insurance today?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com
>>> <mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak
>>> <jno...@lrcomm.com <mailto:jno...@lrcomm.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to
>>> Nicehash, woke up this morning and my miner isn't
>>> running... hmm.
>>>
>>> Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address
>>> (at least unknown to us, the users). 60 million worth of
>>> BTC. I was about half way to my pay out (minimum 0.01
>>> BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread carefully...
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson
>>> <t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge
>>> loss. I got back in at $6,400/btc and sold at
>>> $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just sold
>>> this morning at $12,700.
>>>
>>> It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting
>>> there, especially when it could crash while I'm
>>> asleep at night... but it's also so addictive to
>>> make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this
>>> month).
>>>
>>> It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it.
>>> When you buy in, you are counting on someone willing
>>> to pay you more than you paid for it, but for no
>>> good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without
>>> the .COM. LOL
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>>>
>>> Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each�
>>> you still have?
>>>
>>> On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis
>>> Johnson"
>>> <af-boun...@afmug.com
>>> <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of
>>> t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> How high can it go?? When do you sell??
>>> What's a "fair" return??
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> -Louis
>>>
>>> NTInet
>>> O: 803-533-1660 X 207 <(803)%20533-1660>
>>> C: 803-997-0004 <(803)%20997-0004>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Steve Jones]

https://www.nicehash.com/ for the TLDR- "we apologize for your rectum
stretching, we recommend preparation H and have a nice day... seeya wouldnt
wanna be ya"

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> lulz
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Chris Wright <ch...@velociter.net> wrote:
>
>> For Steve. J
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris Wright
>>
>> Network Administrator
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Louis Arsenault
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:48 PM
>> *To:* Animal Farm
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>>
>>
>>
>> I can wipe that and make $10... LOL.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> To a "Batman" usb drive
>>
>> On 12/06/2017 01:27 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>>
>> don't leave your coin on coinbase move it to a more safe wallet or
>> completely off line if you're paranoid
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com > ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm waiting for the Coinbase hack...that will really hit hard since
>> they are handling more transactions than Mastercard.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Steve Jones
>> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing
>> FDIC insurance today?
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com
>> <mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak
>> <jno...@lrcomm.com <mailto:jno...@lrcomm.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to
>> Nicehash, woke up this morning and my miner isn't
>> running... hmm.
>>
>> Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address
>> (at least unknown to us, the users). 60 million worth of
>> BTC. I was about half way to my pay out (minimum 0.01
>> BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread carefully...
>>
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson
>> <t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:
>>
>> I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge
>> loss. I got back in at $6,400/btc and sold at
>> $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just sold
>> this morning at $12,700.
>>
>> It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting
>> there, especially when it could crash while I'm
>> asleep at night... but it's also so addictive to
>> make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this
>> month).
>>
>> It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it.
>> When you buy in, you are counting on someone willing
>> to pay you more than you paid for it, but for no
>> good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without
>> the .COM. LOL
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>>
>> Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each�
>> you still have?
>>
>> On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis
>> Johnson"
>> <af-boun...@afmug.com
>> <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of
>> t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:
>>
>> How high can it go?? When do you sell??
>> What's a "fair" return??
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> -Louis
>>
>> NTInet
>> O: 803-533-1660 X 207 <(803)%20533-1660>
>> C: 803-997-0004 <(803)%20997-0004>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Steve Jones]

lulz

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Chris Wright <ch...@velociter.net> wrote:

> For Steve. J
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg
>
>
>
> Chris Wright
>
> Network Administrator
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Louis Arsenault
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:48 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>
>
>
> I can wipe that and make $10... LOL.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com>
> wrote:
>
> To a "Batman" usb drive
>
> On 12/06/2017 01:27 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>
> don't leave your coin on coinbase move it to a more safe wallet or
> completely off line if you're paranoid
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com  ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:
>
> I'm waiting for the Coinbase hack...that will really hit hard since
> they are handling more transactions than Mastercard.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Steve Jones
> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing
> FDIC insurance today?
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com
> <mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:
>
> Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak
> <jno...@lrcomm.com <mailto:jno...@lrcomm.com>> wrote:
>
> Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to
> Nicehash, woke up this morning and my miner isn't
> running... hmm.
>
> Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address
> (at least unknown to us, the users). 60 million worth of
> BTC. I was about half way to my pay out (minimum 0.01
> BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread carefully...
>
>
> Joe
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson
> <t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:
>
> I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge
> loss. I got back in at $6,400/btc and sold at
> $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just sold
> this morning at $12,700.
>
> It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting
> there, especially when it could crash while I'm
> asleep at night... but it's also so addictive to
> make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this
> month).
>
> It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it.
> When you buy in, you are counting on someone willing
> to pay you more than you paid for it, but for no
> good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without
> the .COM. LOL
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>
> Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each�
> you still have?
>
> On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis
> Johnson"
> <af-boun...@afmug.com
> <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of
> t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:
>
> How high can it go?? When do you sell??
> What's a "fair" return??
>
> Travis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> -Louis
>
> NTInet
> O: 803-533-1660 X 207 <(803)%20533-1660>
> C: 803-997-0004 <(803)%20997-0004>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Chris Wright]

For Steve. J

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg

 

Chris Wright

Network Administrator

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Louis Arsenault
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:48 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

 

I can wipe that and make $10... LOL.

 

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Robert Andrews <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:

To a "Batman" usb drive

On 12/06/2017 01:27 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

don't leave your coin on coinbase move it to a more safe wallet or completely 
off line if you're paranoid

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com 
<mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:

I'm waiting for the Coinbase hack...that will really hit hard since
they are handling more transactions than Mastercard.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing
FDIC insurance today?

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com
<mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:

Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak
<jno...@lrcomm.com <mailto:jno...@lrcomm.com>> wrote:

Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to
Nicehash, woke up this morning and my miner isn't
running... hmm.

Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address
(at least unknown to us, the users). 60 million worth of
BTC. I was about half way to my pay out (minimum 0.01
BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread carefully...


Joe

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson
<t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:

I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge
loss. I got back in at $6,400/btc and sold at
$9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just sold
this morning at $12,700.

It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting
there, especially when it could crash while I'm
asleep at night... but it's also so addictive to
make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this
month).

It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it.
When you buy in, you are counting on someone willing
to pay you more than you paid for it, but for no
good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without
the .COM. LOL

Travis


On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each�
you still have?

On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis
Johnson"
<af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of
t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:

How high can it go?? When do you sell??
What's a "fair" return??

Travis













 

-- 

-Louis

NTInet
O: 803-533-1660 X 207
C: 803-997-0004

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Louis Arsenault]

I can wipe that and make $10... LOL.

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> To a "Batman" usb drive
>
> On 12/06/2017 01:27 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
>
>> don't leave your coin on coinbase move it to a more safe wallet or
>> completely off line if you're paranoid
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Chuck Hogg  ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm waiting for the Coinbase hack...that will really hit hard since
>> they are handling more transactions than Mastercard.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Steve Jones
>> > wrote:
>>
>> how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing
>> FDIC insurance today?
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg > > wrote:
>>
>> Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak
>> > wrote:
>>
>> Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to
>> Nicehash, woke up this morning and my miner isn't
>> running... hmm.
>>
>> Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address
>> (at least unknown to us, the users). 60 million worth of
>> BTC. I was about half way to my pay out (minimum 0.01
>> BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread carefully...
>>
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson
>> > wrote:
>>
>> I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge
>> loss. I got back in at $6,400/btc and sold at
>> $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just sold
>> this morning at $12,700.
>>
>> It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting
>> there, especially when it could crash while I'm
>> asleep at night... but it's also so addictive to
>> make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this
>> month).
>>
>> It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it.
>> When you buy in, you are counting on someone willing
>> to pay you more than you paid for it, but for no
>> good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without
>> the .COM. LOL
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>>
>> Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each�
>> you still have?
>>
>> On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis
>> Johnson"
>> >  on behalf of
>> t...@ida.net > wrote:
>>
>> How high can it go?? When do you sell??
>> What's a "fair" return??
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>


-- 
-Louis

NTInet
O: 803-533-1660 X 207
C: 803-997-0004

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Robert Andrews]

To a "Batman" usb drive

On 12/06/2017 01:27 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
don't leave your coin on coinbase move it to a more safe wallet or 
completely off line if you're paranoid


On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Chuck Hogg > wrote:


I'm waiting for the Coinbase hack...that will really hit hard since
they are handling more transactions than Mastercard.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Steve Jones
> wrote:

how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing
FDIC insurance today?

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg > wrote:

Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak
> wrote:

Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to
Nicehash, woke up this morning and my miner isn't
running... hmm.

Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address
(at least unknown to us, the users). 60 million worth of
BTC. I was about half way to my pay out (minimum 0.01
BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread carefully...


Joe

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson
> wrote:

I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge
loss. I got back in at $6,400/btc and sold at
$9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just sold
this morning at $12,700.

It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting
there, especially when it could crash while I'm
asleep at night... but it's also so addictive to
make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this
month).

It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it.
When you buy in, you are counting on someone willing
to pay you more than you paid for it, but for no
good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without
the .COM. LOL

Travis


On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each�
you still have?

On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis
Johnson"
 on behalf of
t...@ida.net > wrote:

How high can it go?? When do you sell??
What's a "fair" return??

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Chris Wright]

Eh, I’m out about fifteen bucks. You can (and should) set it up to 
automatically transfer your BTC to your personal wallet when it reaches the 
minimum amount (0.01 BTC, or about $130 US), but some people opted to keep all 
their accruals in NiceHash’s wallet and now they’re paying the hefty price. So 
if you were using them *correctly*, you’d only be out less than 0.01 BTC.

 

Chris Wright

Network Administrator

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 12:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

 

how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing FDIC insurance 
today?

 

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com> wrote:

Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well.




Regards,
Chuck

 

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak <jno...@lrcomm.com> wrote:

Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to Nicehash, woke up this 
morning and my miner isn't running... hmm.

 

Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address (at least unknown to us, 
the users). 60 million worth of BTC. I was about half way to my pay out 
(minimum 0.01 BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread carefully...

 

 

Joe

 

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:

I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge loss. I got back in at 
$6,400/btc and sold at $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just sold this 
morning at $12,700.

It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting there, especially when it 
could crash while I'm asleep at night... but it's also so addictive to make 
huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this month).

It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it. When you buy in, you are 
counting on someone willing to pay you more than you paid for it, but for no 
good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without the .COM. LOL

Travis


On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each� you still have?

On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis Johnson"
<af-boun...@afmug.com on behalf of t...@ida.net> wrote:

How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??

Travis

 

 

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Sean Heskett]

don't leave your coin on coinbase move it to a more safe wallet or
completely off line if you're paranoid

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> I'm waiting for the Coinbase hack...that will really hit hard since they
> are handling more transactions than Mastercard.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing FDIC
>> insurance today?
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
>>
>>> Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
>>>
 Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to Nicehash, woke
 up this morning and my miner isn't running... hmm.

 Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address (at least
 unknown to us, the users). 60 million worth of BTC. I was about half way to
 my pay out (minimum 0.01 BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread
 carefully...


 Joe

 On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge loss. I got back in
> at $6,400/btc and sold at $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just
> sold this morning at $12,700.
>
> It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting there, especially
> when it could crash while I'm asleep at night... but it's also so 
> addictive
> to make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this month).
>
> It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it. When you buy in,
> you are counting on someone willing to pay you more than you paid for it,
> but for no good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without the .COM.
> LOL
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>
>> Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each� you still have?
>>
>> On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis Johnson"
>>  wrote:
>>
>> How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Steve Jones]

dont worry, can always fix this unbreakable system with a hardfork, lol

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:09 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> I'm waiting for the Coinbase hack...that will really hit hard since they
> are handling more transactions than Mastercard.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing FDIC
>> insurance today?
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
>>
>>> Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
>>>
 Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to Nicehash, woke
 up this morning and my miner isn't running... hmm.

 Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address (at least
 unknown to us, the users). 60 million worth of BTC. I was about half way to
 my pay out (minimum 0.01 BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread
 carefully...


 Joe

 On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge loss. I got back in
> at $6,400/btc and sold at $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just
> sold this morning at $12,700.
>
> It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting there, especially
> when it could crash while I'm asleep at night... but it's also so 
> addictive
> to make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this month).
>
> It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it. When you buy in,
> you are counting on someone willing to pay you more than you paid for it,
> but for no good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without the .COM.
> LOL
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>
>> Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each� you still have?
>>
>> On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis Johnson"
>>  wrote:
>>
>> How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Chuck Hogg]

I'm waiting for the Coinbase hack...that will really hit hard since they
are handling more transactions than Mastercard.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing FDIC
> insurance today?
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
>
>> Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
>>
>>> Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to Nicehash, woke
>>> up this morning and my miner isn't running... hmm.
>>>
>>> Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address (at least unknown
>>> to us, the users). 60 million worth of BTC. I was about half way to my pay
>>> out (minimum 0.01 BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread carefully...
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>>
 I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge loss. I got back in
 at $6,400/btc and sold at $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just
 sold this morning at $12,700.

 It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting there, especially
 when it could crash while I'm asleep at night... but it's also so addictive
 to make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this month).

 It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it. When you buy in,
 you are counting on someone willing to pay you more than you paid for it,
 but for no good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without the .COM.
 LOL

 Travis


 On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

> Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each� you still have?
>
> On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis Johnson"
>  wrote:
>
> How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+ Now $13k+

[Steve Jones]

I so much wish I knew more stuff. can you imagine hacking smart meters to
do distributed mining. everybody looks at the smartgrid for malicious
activity, this would offset the electricity costs

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

>
>
> On 12/6/17, 5:28 AM, "Af on behalf of Gino A. Villarini"
>  wrote:
>
> >Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k eachŠ you still have?
> >
> >On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis Johnson"
> > wrote:
> >
> >>How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??
> >>
> >>Travis
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Steve Jones]

how many people who believe this as a "currency" are missing FDIC insurance
today?

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
>
>> Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to Nicehash, woke up
>> this morning and my miner isn't running... hmm.
>>
>> Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address (at least unknown
>> to us, the users). 60 million worth of BTC. I was about half way to my pay
>> out (minimum 0.01 BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread carefully...
>>
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>
>>> I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge loss. I got back in
>>> at $6,400/btc and sold at $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just
>>> sold this morning at $12,700.
>>>
>>> It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting there, especially
>>> when it could crash while I'm asleep at night... but it's also so addictive
>>> to make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this month).
>>>
>>> It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it. When you buy in, you
>>> are counting on someone willing to pay you more than you paid for it, but
>>> for no good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without the .COM. LOL
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>>>
 Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each� you still have?

 On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis Johnson"
  wrote:

 How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??
>
> Travis
>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+ Now $13k+

[Gino A. Villarini]

On 12/6/17, 5:28 AM, "Af on behalf of Gino A. Villarini"
 wrote:

>Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k eachŠ you still have?
>
>On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis Johnson"
> wrote:
>
>>How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??
>>
>>Travis
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Chuck Hogg]

Yea, we're affected by NiceHash as well.

Regards,
Chuck

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:

> Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to Nicehash, woke up
> this morning and my miner isn't running... hmm.
>
> Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address (at least unknown
> to us, the users). 60 million worth of BTC. I was about half way to my pay
> out (minimum 0.01 BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread carefully...
>
>
> Joe
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>> I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge loss. I got back in at
>> $6,400/btc and sold at $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just sold
>> this morning at $12,700.
>>
>> It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting there, especially when
>> it could crash while I'm asleep at night... but it's also so addictive to
>> make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this month).
>>
>> It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it. When you buy in, you
>> are counting on someone willing to pay you more than you paid for it, but
>> for no good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without the .COM. LOL
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>>
>>> Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each� you still have?
>>>
>>> On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis Johnson"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??

 Travis


>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Mathew Howard]

Only one way to find out...

On Dec 6, 2017 12:33 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> I wonder if they taste like onion?
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 06, 2017 11:33 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>
> Someday, rare tulip bulbs will be used as currency. Get them now before
> the price goes up!
>
> On Dec 6, 2017 12:31 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> I have some very rare tulip bulbs for sale.  Only 12 available at $1K
>> each...
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 06, 2017 11:25 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>>
>> thats how pyramid schemes always work. Bernie Madhoff approves
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge loss. I got back in
>>> at $6,400/btc and sold at $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just
>>> sold this morning at $12,700.
>>>
>>> It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting there, especially
>>> when it could crash while I'm asleep at night... but it's also so addictive
>>> to make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this month).
>>>
>>> It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it. When you buy in, you
>>> are counting on someone willing to pay you more than you paid for it, but
>>> for no good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without the .COM. LOL
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>>>
>>>> Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each� you still have?
>>>>
>>>> On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis Johnson"
>>>> <af-boun...@afmug.com on behalf of t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??
>>>>>
>>>>> Travis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Chuck McCown]

I wonder if they taste like onion?

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 11:33 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

Someday, rare tulip bulbs will be used as currency. Get them now before the 
price goes up! 

On Dec 6, 2017 12:31 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  I have some very rare tulip bulbs for sale.  Only 12 available at $1K each...

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 11:25 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

  thats how pyramid schemes always work. Bernie Madhoff approves

  On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:

I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge loss. I got back in at 
$6,400/btc and sold at $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just sold this 
morning at $12,700.

It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting there, especially when 
it could crash while I'm asleep at night... but it's also so addictive to make 
huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this month).

It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it. When you buy in, you 
are counting on someone willing to pay you more than you paid for it, but for 
no good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without the .COM. LOL

Travis


On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

  Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each� you still have?

  On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis Johnson"
  <af-boun...@afmug.com on behalf of t...@ida.net> wrote:


How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Mathew Howard]

Someday, rare tulip bulbs will be used as currency. Get them now before the
price goes up!

On Dec 6, 2017 12:31 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> I have some very rare tulip bulbs for sale.  Only 12 available at $1K
> each...
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 06, 2017 11:25 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>
> thats how pyramid schemes always work. Bernie Madhoff approves
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>
>> I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge loss. I got back in at
>> $6,400/btc and sold at $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just sold
>> this morning at $12,700.
>>
>> It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting there, especially when
>> it could crash while I'm asleep at night... but it's also so addictive to
>> make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this month).
>>
>> It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it. When you buy in, you
>> are counting on someone willing to pay you more than you paid for it, but
>> for no good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without the .COM. LOL
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>>
>>> Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each� you still have?
>>>
>>> On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis Johnson"
>>> <af-boun...@afmug.com on behalf of t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??
>>>>
>>>> Travis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Chuck McCown]

I have some very rare tulip bulbs for sale.  Only 12 available at $1K each...

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 11:25 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

thats how pyramid schemes always work. Bernie Madhoff approves

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:

  I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge loss. I got back in at 
$6,400/btc and sold at $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just sold this 
morning at $12,700.

  It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting there, especially when it 
could crash while I'm asleep at night... but it's also so addictive to make 
huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this month).

  It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it. When you buy in, you are 
counting on someone willing to pay you more than you paid for it, but for no 
good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without the .COM. LOL

  Travis


  On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each� you still have?

On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis Johnson"
<af-boun...@afmug.com on behalf of t...@ida.net> wrote:


  How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??

  Travis

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Steve Jones]

thats how pyramid schemes always work. Bernie Madhoff approves

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge loss. I got back in at
> $6,400/btc and sold at $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just sold
> this morning at $12,700.
>
> It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting there, especially when
> it could crash while I'm asleep at night... but it's also so addictive to
> make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this month).
>
> It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it. When you buy in, you
> are counting on someone willing to pay you more than you paid for it, but
> for no good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without the .COM. LOL
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>
>> Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each� you still have?
>>
>> On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis Johnson"
>>  wrote:
>>
>> How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Joe Novak]

Speaking of hacks... I've been selling hashing power to Nicehash, woke up
this morning and my miner isn't running... hmm.

Nicehash's wallet all got emptied to a unknown address (at least unknown to
us, the users). 60 million worth of BTC. I was about half way to my pay out
(minimum 0.01 BTC per payout). No official word yet, tread carefully...


Joe

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge loss. I got back in at
> $6,400/btc and sold at $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just sold
> this morning at $12,700.
>
> It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting there, especially when
> it could crash while I'm asleep at night... but it's also so addictive to
> make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this month).
>
> It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it. When you buy in, you
> are counting on someone willing to pay you more than you paid for it, but
> for no good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without the .COM. LOL
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>
>> Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each� you still have?
>>
>> On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis Johnson"
>>  wrote:
>>
>> How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Travis Johnson]

I sold 110 coins about 3 years ago and took a huge loss. I got back in 
at $6,400/btc and sold at $9,800. Then I got back in at $10,500 and just 
sold this morning at $12,700.


It scares the hell out of me to have money sitting there, especially 
when it could crash while I'm asleep at night... but it's also so 
addictive to make huge returns (16% after fees, etc. just this month).


It's a huge bubble. There is nothing to support it. When you buy in, you 
are counting on someone willing to pay you more than you paid for it, 
but for no good reason. It's the .COM era again, except without the 
.COM. LOL


Travis


On 12/6/2017 2:28 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k each� you still have?

On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis Johnson"
 wrote:


How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Josh Reynolds]

Because in the end, things became less *ahem* anonymous than originally
intended. Later cryptocurrencies have somewhat fixed this issue.

On Dec 6, 2017 2:36 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" <par...@cyberbroadband.net>
wrote:

>
> I obviously don't understand this but if it is a crypto currency, how does
> the gov'mt know i "cashed out" and charge me cap gains tax?
> how does the gov'mt tax my gold bullion bar when i use it to buy my big
> mac after the apocalypse?
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 5, 2017 8:51 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+
>
> This is getting insane. So many people are getting so rich. When this
> bubble bursts though its going to be bedlam. Imagine the proposed laws that
> are going to be presented. This may be a moment in history where we get to
> witness something as momentous as the moon landing. As long as governments
> and major corps dont vest we wont have to see 1929.
>
> Im negative about cryprocurrency replacing money because i understand the
> concept of electricity. But i read an article the other day so negative it
> made me want to take another mortgage and buy in to spite the author. It
> was about getting in more than a year ago and how it would basically be a
> disaster because capital gains tax. His math was even correct and still it
> was a bad thing, because apparently making a shit ton after taxes is
> utterly aweful and terribly poor financial decision.
>
> On Dec 5, 2017 8:37 PM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>
> How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??
>
> Travis
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Gino A. Villarini]

Still crying over the 85 I sold at $1k eachŠ you still have?

On 12/5/17, 10:37 PM, "Af on behalf of Travis Johnson"
 wrote:

>How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??
>
>Travis
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

I obviously don't understand this but if it is a crypto currency, how does the 
gov'mt know i "cashed out" and charge me cap gains tax?
how does the gov'mt tax my gold bullion bar when i use it to buy my big mac 
after the apocalypse?

  - Original Message - 
  From: Steve Jones 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 5, 2017 8:51 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+


  This is getting insane. So many people are getting so rich. When this bubble 
bursts though its going to be bedlam. Imagine the proposed laws that are going 
to be presented. This may be a moment in history where we get to witness 
something as momentous as the moon landing. As long as governments and major 
corps dont vest we wont have to see 1929.


  Im negative about cryprocurrency replacing money because i understand the 
concept of electricity. But i read an article the other day so negative it made 
me want to take another mortgage and buy in to spite the author. It was about 
getting in more than a year ago and how it would basically be a disaster 
because capital gains tax. His math was even correct and still it was a bad 
thing, because apparently making a shit ton after taxes is utterly aweful and 
terribly poor financial decision.


  On Dec 5, 2017 8:37 PM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:

How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Simon Westlake]

Every time it goes up another $1k, I keep saying, it'd be stupid to buy 
it now. But if I'd bought 1 bitcoin a month ago, I'd have made almost 5k 
already.


On 12/5/2017 9:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
If somebody does another robbery and they fork again, i will mortgage. 
Its going to survive one more and rebound. 3rd fork will be the coffin 
nail though


On Dec 5, 2017 9:18 PM, "Lewis Bergman" > wrote:


Wait till the twins sell their billion worth and see what happens.
If it is like regular currency, the value won't change significantly.

On Tue, Dec 5, 2017, 8:37 PM Travis Johnson > wrote:

How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??

Travis



--
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Steve Jones]

If somebody does another robbery and they fork again, i will mortgage. Its
going to survive one more and rebound. 3rd fork will be the coffin nail
though

On Dec 5, 2017 9:18 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> Wait till the twins sell their billion worth and see what happens. If it
> is like regular currency, the value won't change significantly.
>
> On Tue, Dec 5, 2017, 8:37 PM Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>> How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Lewis Bergman]

Wait till the twins sell their billion worth and see what happens. If it is
like regular currency, the value won't change significantly.

On Tue, Dec 5, 2017, 8:37 PM Travis Johnson  wrote:

> How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??
>
> Travis
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Steve Jones]

This is getting insane. So many people are getting so rich. When this
bubble bursts though its going to be bedlam. Imagine the proposed laws that
are going to be presented. This may be a moment in history where we get to
witness something as momentous as the moon landing. As long as governments
and major corps dont vest we wont have to see 1929.

Im negative about cryprocurrency replacing money because i understand the
concept of electricity. But i read an article the other day so negative it
made me want to take another mortgage and buy in to spite the author. It
was about getting in more than a year ago and how it would basically be a
disaster because capital gains tax. His math was even correct and still it
was a bad thing, because apparently making a shit ton after taxes is
utterly aweful and terribly poor financial decision.

On Dec 5, 2017 8:37 PM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:

How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??

Travis

[AFMUG] BTC 12k+

[Travis Johnson]

How high can it go?? When do you sell?? What's a "fair" return??

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Carl Peterson]

 "i often say i don't think i'd be able to buy a big mac with a gold
bar"  Which is why we created "off chain" transactions with paper money
that could be turned back into gold later.  Then we stopped settling the
off chain transactions back to the gold chain.

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> Then you can just hand over to me all of those gold bars.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
> *From: *"CBB - Jay Fuller" <par...@cyberbroadband.net>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, November 18, 2017 10:25:55 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] BTC
>
> 
>
> i so agree about your gold comment.  i often say i don't think i'd be able
> to buy a big mac with a gold bar
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Friday, November 17, 2017 10:55 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTC
>
> The world is and always will be analog. Thats why i put all my money into
> debt. Its the only stable market.
>
> Playing a devils advocate though, i couldnt buy a pop with a gold bar at a
> gas station if i wanted to either.
>
> Mark dice showed that with silver bars vs candy bars.
>
> Any money only has value if both parties understand and agree on its worth.
>
> I sold a silver dollar once for 28 dollars, because the money had lost its
> worth
>
>
>
> On Nov 17, 2017 10:43 PM, "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software> wrote:
>
>> When the power is out, no money is money
>>
>> On 11/17/2017 10:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> Til the power is out
>>
>> On Nov 17, 2017 10:34 PM, "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software>
>> <simon@sonar.software> wrote:
>>
>>> All money is money
>>>
>>> On 11/17/2017 10:33 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> As a bubble risk investment its insane good,  look at wikileaks, they
>>> had no choice and have bank.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Its just not money
>>>
>>> On Nov 17, 2017 10:22 PM, "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software>
>>> <simon@sonar.software> wrote:
>>>
>>> It reminds me every time it goes up another $1k that I was really stupid
>>> to not mine it when it was worth 1c. I've been saying since it was worth
>>> $10 that it's gonna crash. A couple of weeks ago I said it was crazy it's
>>> at 5k, it's at 7.5k now.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/17/2017 10:20 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> Crypto currency reminds me of those guys who are always talking about
>>> the superiority of linux and how linux is gonna dominate.
>>> Fanboydom may have many accurate examples, probably is superior, but
>>> wont dominate
>>>
>>> On Nov 17, 2017 8:51 PM, "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software>
>>> <simon@sonar.software> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good question, I'll have to ask my friends at Infowars.
>>>>
>>>> On 11/17/2017 8:50 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Wonder about yuan (Renminbi)?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/17/2017 6:47 PM, Simon Westlake wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I doubt krona, rubles, or francs were either.
>>>>
>>>> On 11/17/2017 6:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Out of curiousity, down in puerto rico, was that cryptocurrency buying
>>>> any gas, water ot food?
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 17, 2017 4:48 PM, "Sean Heskett" <af...@zirkel.us> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey Travis and gang,
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's a really good audiobook that does a deep dive into all things
&g

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Mike Hammett]

Then you can just hand over to me all of those gold bars. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" <par...@cyberbroadband.net> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2017 10:25:55 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 



i so agree about your gold comment. i often say i don't think i'd be able to 
buy a big mac with a gold bar 



- Original Message - 
From: Steve Jones 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 10:55 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC 


The world is and always will be analog. Thats why i put all my money into debt. 
Its the only stable market. 


Playing a devils advocate though, i couldnt buy a pop with a gold bar at a gas 
station if i wanted to either. 


Mark dice showed that with silver bars vs candy bars. 


Any money only has value if both parties understand and agree on its worth. 


I sold a silver dollar once for 28 dollars, because the money had lost its 
worth 







On Nov 17, 2017 10:43 PM, "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software> wrote: 



When the power is out, no money is money 


On 11/17/2017 10:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote: 



Til the power is out 


On Nov 17, 2017 10:34 PM, "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software> wrote: 



All money is money 


On 11/17/2017 10:33 PM, Steve Jones wrote: 




As a bubble risk investment its insane good, look at wikileaks, they had no 
choice and have bank. 






Its just not money 



On Nov 17, 2017 10:22 PM, "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software> wrote: 



It reminds me every time it goes up another $1k that I was really stupid to not 
mine it when it was worth 1c. I've been saying since it was worth $10 that it's 
gonna crash. A couple of weeks ago I said it was crazy it's at 5k, it's at 7.5k 
now. 



On 11/17/2017 10:20 PM, Steve Jones wrote: 




Crypto currency reminds me of those guys who are always talking about the 
superiority of linux and how linux is gonna dominate. 
Fanboydom may have many accurate examples, probably is superior, but wont 
dominate 



On Nov 17, 2017 8:51 PM, "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software> wrote: 




Good question, I'll have to ask my friends at Infowars. 


On 11/17/2017 8:50 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 



Wonder about yuan ( Renminbi) ? 

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> 
On 11/17/2017 6:47 PM, Simon Westlake wrote: 


I doubt krona, rubles, or francs were either. 


On 11/17/2017 6:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote: 



Out of curiousity, down in puerto rico, was that cryptocurrency buying any gas, 
water ot food? 


On Nov 17, 2017 4:48 PM, "Sean Heskett" < af...@zirkel.us > wrote: 



Hey Travis and gang, 


Here's a really good audiobook that does a deep dive into all things 
cryptocurrency. It was written by a couple of Wall Street Journalist. The link 
below is to audible.com . It answers a lot of the questions you are asking. 


 



Hi, 

I've listened to this audiobook, "The Age of Cryptocurrency: How Bitcoin and 
Digital Money Are Challenging the Global Economic Order" by Paul Vigna, Michael 
J. Casey, and thought you would enjoy it, too. 

It's totally free and you won't need a credit card if it is your first time 
accepting an Audible book from a friend. 

Get it here 

- 
After you accept the book, you will be prompted to download the Audible app to 
start listening. 

Enjoy! 


-Sean 


On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Travis Johnson < t...@ida.net > wrote: 


Hi, 

I agree with most of what you said here... however, the original premise for 
BTC was that everyone was tired of the "banks" controlling the money... and 
charging fees to do so. I just really don't see how that has changed much... I 
currently have 4 or 5 bank accounts, all at different banks... and I control 
all of them from my computer. I can send/receive/wire/transfer money in and out 
of any of them at my own will. 

Also, how is sending BTC from wallet to wallet not free? I have sent BTC to 
other people without being charged a fee... I was doing it from my own wallet 
on a computer, not using a service. 

For me it just doesn't make sense... I can have a totally free bank account 
with an ATM/VISA card that I can use anywhere and not have to worry about 
getting hit with fees or the value of my "money" changing every 5 seconds... 
and it's insured and if there is an issue (fraud, etc) the bank covers it. I 
get none of those features with BTC, and I have to pay a much higher "fee" to 
use it. 

The current state of BTC is not how it was envisioned when it was first 
created. It has become commercialized and everyone is after their 1.5% fee. :( 

Travis 




On 11/17/2017 12:28 PM, Chris Wright wrote: 


Many of the negative things you say here about BTC are

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

i so agree about your gold comment.  i often say i don't think i'd be able to 
buy a big mac with a gold bar

  - Original Message - 
  From: Steve Jones 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 10:55 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC


  The world is and always will be analog. Thats why i put all my money into 
debt. Its the only stable market.


  Playing a devils advocate though, i couldnt buy a pop with a gold bar at a 
gas station if i wanted to either.


  Mark dice showed that with silver bars vs candy bars.


  Any money only has value if both parties understand and agree on its worth.


  I sold a silver dollar once for 28 dollars, because the money had lost its 
worth







  On Nov 17, 2017 10:43 PM, "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software> wrote:

When the power is out, no money is money


On 11/17/2017 10:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

  Til the power is out


  On Nov 17, 2017 10:34 PM, "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software> wrote:

All money is money


On 11/17/2017 10:33 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

  As a bubble risk investment its insane good,  look at wikileaks, they 
had no choice and have bank. 






  Its just not money



  On Nov 17, 2017 10:22 PM, "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software> 
wrote:

It reminds me every time it goes up another $1k that I was really 
stupid to not mine it when it was worth 1c. I've been saying since it was worth 
$10 that it's gonna crash. A couple of weeks ago I said it was crazy it's at 
5k, it's at 7.5k now. 



On 11/17/2017 10:20 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

  Crypto currency reminds me of those guys who are always talking 
about the superiority of linux and how linux is gonna dominate. 
  Fanboydom may have many accurate examples, probably is superior, 
but wont dominate


  On Nov 17, 2017 8:51 PM, "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software> 
wrote:

Good question, I'll have to ask my friends at Infowars.


On 11/17/2017 8:50 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

  Wonder about yuan (Renminbi)?




bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 11/17/2017 6:47 PM, Simon Westlake wrote:

I doubt krona, rubles, or francs were either.


On 11/17/2017 6:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

  Out of curiousity, down in puerto rico, was that 
cryptocurrency buying any gas, water ot food?


  On Nov 17, 2017 4:48 PM, "Sean Heskett" <af...@zirkel.us> 
wrote:

Hey Travis and gang, 


Here's a really good audiobook that does a deep dive 
into all things cryptocurrency.  It was written by a couple of Wall Street 
Journalist.  The link below is to audible.com.  It answers a lot of the 
questions you are asking.






Hi,

I've listened to this audiobook, "The Age of 
Cryptocurrency: How Bitcoin and Digital Money Are Challenging the Global 
Economic Order" by Paul Vigna, Michael J. Casey, and thought you would enjoy 
it, too.

It's totally free and you won't need a credit card if 
it is your first time accepting an Audible book from a friend.

Get it here

-
After you accept the book, you will be prompted to 
download the Audible app to start listening.

Enjoy!



-Sean


On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Travis Johnson 
<t...@ida.net> wrote:

  Hi,

  I agree with most of what you said here... however, 
the original premise for BTC was that everyone was tired of the "banks" 
controlling the money... and charging fees to do so. I just really don't see 
how that has changed much... I currently have 4 or 5 bank accounts, all at 
different banks... and I control all of them from my computer. I can 
send/receive/wire/transfer money in and out of any of them at my own will.

  Also, how is sending BTC from wallet to wallet not 
free? I have sent BTC to other people without being charged a fee... I was 
doing it from my own wallet on a computer, not using a service.

  For me it just doesn't make sense... I can have a 
totally free bank account with an ATM/VISA card that I can use anywhere and not 
have to worry about getting hit with fees or the value of my "money" changing 
every 5 seconds... and it's insured and if there is an issue (fraud, etc) the 
bank covers it. I get none of those features with BTC, and I have to pay a much 
higher "fee" to use it.

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Adam Moffett]

For awhile there, the interest rate was lower than inflation 
rate.debt honestly was better than some investments.
I'm not sure where we stand on that score now and I'm too lazy to 
Google.



-- Original Message --
From: "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/17/2017 11:55:09 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC

The world is and always will be analog. Thats why i put all my money 
into debt. Its the only stable market.


Playing a devils advocate though, i couldnt buy a pop with a gold bar 
at a gas station if i wanted to either.


Mark dice showed that with silver bars vs candy bars.

Any money only has value if both parties understand and agree on its 
worth.


I sold a silver dollar once for 28 dollars, because the money had lost 
its worth




On Nov 17, 2017 10:43 PM, "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software> 
wrote:

When the power is out, no money is money

On 11/17/2017 10:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

Til the power is out

On Nov 17, 2017 10:34 PM, "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software> 
<mailto:simon@sonar.software> wrote:

All money is money

On 11/17/2017 10:33 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
As a bubble risk investment its insane good,  look at wikileaks, 
they had no choice and have bank.




Its just not money

On Nov 17, 2017 10:22 PM, "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software> 
<mailto:simon@sonar.software> wrote:
It reminds me every time it goes up another $1k that I was really 
stupid to not mine it when it was worth 1c. I've been saying since 
it was worth $10 that it's gonna crash. A couple of weeks ago I 
said it was crazy it's at 5k, it's at 7.5k now.



On 11/17/2017 10:20 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
Crypto currency reminds me of those guys who are always talking 
about the superiority of linux and how linux is gonna dominate.
Fanboydom may have many accurate examples, probably is superior, 
but wont dominate


On Nov 17, 2017 8:51 PM, "Simon Westlake" <simon@sonar.software> 
<mailto:simon@sonar.software> wrote:

Good question, I'll have to ask my friends at Infowars.

On 11/17/2017 8:50 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

Wonder about yuan (Renminbi)?



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>


On 11/17/2017 6:47 PM, Simon Westlake wrote:

I doubt krona, rubles, or francs were either.

On 11/17/2017 6:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
Out of curiousity, down in puerto rico, was that 
cryptocurrency buying any gas, water ot food?


On Nov 17, 2017 4:48 PM, "Sean Heskett" <af...@zirkel.us> 
wrote:

Hey Travis and gang,

Here's a really good audiobook that does a deep dive into 
all things cryptocurrency.  It was written by a couple of 
Wall Street Journalist.  The link below is to audible.com.  
It answers a lot of the questions you are asking.




Hi,

I've listened to this audiobook, "The Age of Cryptocurrency: 
How Bitcoin and Digital Money Are Challenging the Global 
Economic Order" by Paul Vigna, Michael J. Casey, and thought 
you would enjoy it, too.


It's totally free and you won't need a credit card if it is 
your first time accepting an Audible book from a friend.


Get it here <http://a.co/69VdGfJ>

-
After you accept the book, you will be prompted to download 
the Audible app to start listening.


Enjoy!


-Sean

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Travis Johnson 
<t...@ida.net> wrote:

Hi,

I agree with most of what you said here... however, the 
original premise for BTC was that everyone was tired of the 
"banks" controlling the money... and charging fees to do 
so. I just really don't see how that has changed much... I 
currently have 4 or 5 bank accounts, all at different 
banks... and I control all of them from my computer. I can 
send/receive/wire/transfer money in and out of any of them 
at my own will.


Also, how is sending BTC from wallet to wallet not free? I 
have sent BTC to other people without being charged a 
fee... I was doing it from my own wallet on a computer, not 
using a service.


For me it just doesn't make sense... I can have a totally 
free bank account with an ATM/VISA card that I can use 
anywhere and not have to worry about getting hit with fees 
or the value of my "money" changing every 5 seconds... and 
it's insured and if there is an issue (fraud, etc) the bank 
covers it. I get none of those features with BTC, and I 
have to pay a much higher "fee" to use it.


The current state of BTC is not how it was envisioned when 
it was first created. It has become commercialized and 
everyone is after their 1.5% fee. :(


Travis



On 11/17/2017 12:28 PM, Chris Wright wrote:
Many of the negative things you say here about BTC are 
questions I had when I was still learning. Let me clear 
some things up.


Coinbase charges for when you want to buy BTC with fiat 
(USD). They have a business to run. Everyone here kn

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Simon Westlake]

  Behalf Of Travis Johnson
        Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017
1:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] BTC

Hi,

The entire idea and goal of bitcoin
was to take away the financial
institutions from having "control"
and charging fees to handle money.
In exchange for no fees (sending or
receiving BTC is free), you also
have no security. Once it's sent,
it's gone.

However, now the banks have just
been replaced with places like
Coinbase... bitcoin "exchanges" that
charge roughly 1.5% for every
buy/sell transaction... and they
take 7-10 business days to convert
btc to cash or visa versa.

I don't see how this is a long term
thing? Once all the "mining" is
being done by huge datacenters (for
another 3-4 years is all), then I
don't see it becoming the new money
standard like everyone thinks. You
will still have to pay fees, and
someone else is still in control of
your money. :(

Travis








-- 
Simon Westlake

Email:simon@sonar.software <mailto:simon@sonar.software>
Phone:(702) 447-1247 <tel:%28702%29%20447-1247>  US /(780) 900-1180 
<tel:%28780%29%20900-1180>  CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software




-- 
Simon Westlake

Email:simon@sonar.software <mailto:simon@sonar.software>
Phone:(702) 447-1247 <tel:%28702%29%20447-1247>  US /(780) 900-1180 
<tel:%28780%29%20900-1180>  CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software



-- 
Simon Westlake

Email:simon@sonar.software <mailto:simon@sonar.software>
Phone:(702) 447-1247 <tel:%28702%29%20447-1247>  US /(780) 900-1180 
<tel:%28780%29%20900-1180>  CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software




-- 
Simon Westlake

Email:simon@sonar.software <mailto:simon@sonar.software>
Phone:(702) 447-1247 <tel:%28702%29%20447-1247>  US /(780) 900-1180 
<tel:%28780%29%20900-1180>  CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software



-- 
Simon Westlake

Email:simon@sonar.software <mailto:simon@sonar.software>
Phone:(702) 447-1247 <tel:%28702%29%20447-1247>  US /(780) 900-1180 
<tel:%28780%29%20900-1180>  CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software



--
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Steve Jones]

computer, not using a service.
>>>>>
>>>>> For me it just doesn't make sense... I can have a totally free bank
>>>>> account with an ATM/VISA card that I can use anywhere and not have to 
>>>>> worry
>>>>> about getting hit with fees or the value of my "money" changing every 5
>>>>> seconds... and it's insured and if there is an issue (fraud, etc) the bank
>>>>> covers it. I get none of those features with BTC, and I have to pay a much
>>>>> higher "fee" to use it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The current state of BTC is not how it was envisioned when it was
>>>>> first created. It has become commercialized and everyone is after their
>>>>> 1.5% fee. :(
>>>>>
>>>>> Travis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/17/2017 12:28 PM, Chris Wright wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Many of the negative things you say here about BTC are questions I
>>>>>> had when I was still learning. Let me clear some things up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Coinbase charges for when you want to buy BTC with fiat (USD). They
>>>>>> have a business to run. Everyone here knows that processing debit/ACH
>>>>>> payments is NOT free. Onboarding your US dollars to crypto currency will
>>>>>> require a gateway, and every gate requires a gatekeeper, and every
>>>>>> gatekeeper has mouths to feed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sending BTC from wallet to wallet is not free. Current transaction
>>>>>> fees on Bitcoin are ~$10 USD at the time I'm writing this. Other crypto
>>>>>> currencies like Ethereum are more robust in this area (~$0.30 currently).
>>>>>> Every transaction needs to be written to the blockchain, which requires
>>>>>> mining time, electricity, and processing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are doing what the banks have been
>>>>>> doing for years... it's an electronic ledger. What's a bank statement
>>>>>> worth? It's only a piece of printed paper or numbers on a screen that 
>>>>>> show
>>>>>> how much currency to which one is entitled. It has no value in and of
>>>>>> itself. A US dollar bill is simply paper; its value is whatever we all
>>>>>> agree it is. The *big* thing cryptocurrencies bring to the table is that
>>>>>> your "bank account" is no longer controlled by one central building. Your
>>>>>> account, or "digital wallet" is controlled by thousands of computers, 
>>>>>> each
>>>>>> checking themselves against the other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only way someone can hijack the blockchain would be if they
>>>>>> controlled more than 50% of the compute power in the mining world. Think
>>>>>> about how many vectors of attack from which our traditional banks are
>>>>>> vulnerable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This video answered even more questions I didn't even think to ask...
>>>>>> I highly recommend giving it your time.
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Wright
>>>>>> Network Administrator
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM
>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] BTC
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the financial
>>>>>> institutions from having "control" and charging fees to handle money. In
>>>>>> exchange for no fees (sending or receiving BTC is free), you also have no
>>>>>> security. Once it's sent, it's gone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, now the banks have just been replaced with places like
>>>>>> Coinbase... bitcoin "exchanges" that charge roughly 1.5% for every 
>>>>>> buy/sell
>>>>>> transaction... and they take 7-10 business days to convert btc to cash or
>>>>>> visa versa.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all the "mining" is
>>>>>> being done by huge datacenters (for another 3-4 years is all), then I 
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> see it becoming the new money standard like everyone thinks. You will 
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> have to pay fees, and someone else is still in control of your money. :(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Travis
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Simon Westlake
>>> Email: simon@sonar.software
>>> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
>>> ---
>>> Sonar Software Inc
>>> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Simon Westlake
>>> Email: simon@sonar.software
>>> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
>>> ---
>>> Sonar Software Inc
>>> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Simon Westlake
>> Email: simon@sonar.software
>> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
>> ---
>> Sonar Software Inc
>> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Simon Westlake
>> Email: simon@sonar.software
>> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
>> ---
>> Sonar Software Inc
>> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>>
>>
> --
> Simon Westlake
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Simon Westlake]

d everyone is after
their 1.5% fee. :(

Travis



On 11/17/2017 12:28 PM, Chris Wright wrote:

Many of the negative things you say here
about BTC are questions I had when I was
still learning. Let me clear some things up.

Coinbase charges for when you want to buy
BTC with fiat (USD). They have a business
to run. Everyone here knows that
processing debit/ACH payments is NOT
free. Onboarding your US dollars to
crypto currency will require a gateway,
and every gate requires a gatekeeper, and
every gatekeeper has mouths to feed.

Sending BTC from wallet to wallet is not
free. Current transaction fees on Bitcoin
are ~$10 USD at the time I'm writing
this. Other crypto currencies like
Ethereum are more robust in this area
(~$0.30 currently). Every transaction
needs to be written to the blockchain,
which requires mining time, electricity,
and processing.

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are
doing what the banks have been doing for
years... it's an electronic ledger.
What's a bank statement worth? It's only
a piece of printed paper or numbers on a
screen that show how much currency to
which one is entitled. It has no value in
and of itself. A US dollar bill is simply
paper; its value is whatever we all agree
it is. The *big* thing cryptocurrencies
bring to the table is that your "bank
account" is no longer controlled by one
central building. Your account, or
"digital wallet" is controlled by
thousands of computers, each checking
themselves against the other.

The only way someone can hijack the
blockchain would be if they controlled
more than 50% of the compute power in the
mining world. Think about how many
vectors of attack from which our
traditional banks are vulnerable.

This video answered even more questions I
didn't even think to ask... I highly
recommend giving it your time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4>

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf
    Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] BTC

Hi,

The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was
to take away the financial institutions
from having "control" and charging fees
to handle money. In exchange for no fees
(sending or receiving BTC is free), you
also have no security. Once it's sent,
it's gone.

However, now the banks have just been
replaced with places like Coinbase...
bitcoin "exchanges" that charge roughly
1.5% for every buy/sell transaction...
and they take 7-10 business days to
convert btc to cash or visa versa.

I don't see how this is a long term
thing? Once all the "mining" is being
done by huge datacenters (for another 3-4
years is all), then I don't see it
becoming the new money standard like
everyone thinks. You will still have to
pay fees, and someone else is still in
control of your money. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Steve Jones]

hen I was still learning. Let me clear some things up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Coinbase charges for when you want to buy BTC with fiat (USD). They
>>>>> have a business to run. Everyone here knows that processing debit/ACH
>>>>> payments is NOT free. Onboarding your US dollars to crypto currency will
>>>>> require a gateway, and every gate requires a gatekeeper, and every
>>>>> gatekeeper has mouths to feed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sending BTC from wallet to wallet is not free. Current transaction
>>>>> fees on Bitcoin are ~$10 USD at the time I'm writing this. Other crypto
>>>>> currencies like Ethereum are more robust in this area (~$0.30 currently).
>>>>> Every transaction needs to be written to the blockchain, which requires
>>>>> mining time, electricity, and processing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are doing what the banks have been
>>>>> doing for years... it's an electronic ledger. What's a bank statement
>>>>> worth? It's only a piece of printed paper or numbers on a screen that show
>>>>> how much currency to which one is entitled. It has no value in and of
>>>>> itself. A US dollar bill is simply paper; its value is whatever we all
>>>>> agree it is. The *big* thing cryptocurrencies bring to the table is that
>>>>> your "bank account" is no longer controlled by one central building. Your
>>>>> account, or "digital wallet" is controlled by thousands of computers, each
>>>>> checking themselves against the other.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only way someone can hijack the blockchain would be if they
>>>>> controlled more than 50% of the compute power in the mining world. Think
>>>>> about how many vectors of attack from which our traditional banks are
>>>>> vulnerable.
>>>>>
>>>>> This video answered even more questions I didn't even think to ask...
>>>>> I highly recommend giving it your time.
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Wright
>>>>> Network Administrator
>>>>>
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM
>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] BTC
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the financial
>>>>> institutions from having "control" and charging fees to handle money. In
>>>>> exchange for no fees (sending or receiving BTC is free), you also have no
>>>>> security. Once it's sent, it's gone.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, now the banks have just been replaced with places like
>>>>> Coinbase... bitcoin "exchanges" that charge roughly 1.5% for every 
>>>>> buy/sell
>>>>> transaction... and they take 7-10 business days to convert btc to cash or
>>>>> visa versa.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all the "mining" is
>>>>> being done by huge datacenters (for another 3-4 years is all), then I 
>>>>> don't
>>>>> see it becoming the new money standard like everyone thinks. You will 
>>>>> still
>>>>> have to pay fees, and someone else is still in control of your money. :(
>>>>>
>>>>> Travis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Simon Westlake
>> Email: simon@sonar.software
>> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
>> ---
>> Sonar Software Inc
>> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Simon Westlake
>> Email: simon@sonar.software
>> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
>> ---
>> Sonar Software Inc
>> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>>
>>
> --
> Simon Westlake
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>
>
>
> --
> Simon Westlake
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Simon Westlake]

e a
gateway, and every gate requires a gatekeeper,
and every gatekeeper has mouths to feed.

Sending BTC from wallet to wallet is not free.
Current transaction fees on Bitcoin are ~$10
USD at the time I'm writing this. Other crypto
currencies like Ethereum are more robust in
this area (~$0.30 currently). Every
transaction needs to be written to the
blockchain, which requires mining time,
electricity, and processing.

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are doing
what the banks have been doing for years...
it's an electronic ledger. What's a bank
statement worth? It's only a piece of printed
paper or numbers on a screen that show how
much currency to which one is entitled. It has
no value in and of itself. A US dollar bill is
simply paper; its value is whatever we all
agree it is. The *big* thing cryptocurrencies
bring to the table is that your "bank account"
is no longer controlled by one central
building. Your account, or "digital wallet" is
controlled by thousands of computers, each
checking themselves against the other.

The only way someone can hijack the blockchain
would be if they controlled more than 50% of
the compute power in the mining world. Think
about how many vectors of attack from which
our traditional banks are vulnerable.

This video answered even more questions I
didn't even think to ask... I highly recommend
giving it your time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4>

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of
Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] BTC

Hi,

The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to
take away the financial institutions from
having "control" and charging fees to handle
money. In exchange for no fees (sending or
receiving BTC is free), you also have no
security. Once it's sent, it's gone.

However, now the banks have just been replaced
with places like Coinbase... bitcoin
"exchanges" that charge roughly 1.5% for every
buy/sell transaction... and they take 7-10
business days to convert btc to cash or visa
versa.

I don't see how this is a long term thing?
Once all the "mining" is being done by huge
datacenters (for another 3-4 years is all),
then I don't see it becoming the new money
standard like everyone thinks. You will still
have to pay fees, and someone else is still in
control of your money. :(

Travis








-- 
Simon Westlake

Email:simon@sonar.software <mailto:simon@sonar.software>
Phone:(702) 447-1247 <tel:%28702%29%20447-1247>  US /(780) 900-1180 
<tel:%28780%29%20900-1180>  CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software




-- 
Simon Westlake

Email:simon@sonar.software <mailto:simon@sonar.software>
Phone:(702) 447-1247 <tel:%28702%29%20447-1247>  US /(780) 900-1180 
<tel:%28780%29%20900-1180>  CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software



-- 
Simon Westlake

Email:simon@sonar.software <mailto:simon@sonar.software>
Phone:(702) 447-1247 <tel:%28702%29%20447-1247>  US /(780) 900-1180 
<tel:%28780%29%20900-1180>  CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software




--
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Steve Jones]

 like Ethereum are more robust in this area (~$0.30 currently).
>>>> Every transaction needs to be written to the blockchain, which requires
>>>> mining time, electricity, and processing.
>>>>
>>>> Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are doing what the banks have been
>>>> doing for years... it's an electronic ledger. What's a bank statement
>>>> worth? It's only a piece of printed paper or numbers on a screen that show
>>>> how much currency to which one is entitled. It has no value in and of
>>>> itself. A US dollar bill is simply paper; its value is whatever we all
>>>> agree it is. The *big* thing cryptocurrencies bring to the table is that
>>>> your "bank account" is no longer controlled by one central building. Your
>>>> account, or "digital wallet" is controlled by thousands of computers, each
>>>> checking themselves against the other.
>>>>
>>>> The only way someone can hijack the blockchain would be if they
>>>> controlled more than 50% of the compute power in the mining world. Think
>>>> about how many vectors of attack from which our traditional banks are
>>>> vulnerable.
>>>>
>>>> This video answered even more questions I didn't even think to ask... I
>>>> highly recommend giving it your time.
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4
>>>>
>>>> Chris Wright
>>>> Network Administrator
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] BTC
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the financial
>>>> institutions from having "control" and charging fees to handle money. In
>>>> exchange for no fees (sending or receiving BTC is free), you also have no
>>>> security. Once it's sent, it's gone.
>>>>
>>>> However, now the banks have just been replaced with places like
>>>> Coinbase... bitcoin "exchanges" that charge roughly 1.5% for every buy/sell
>>>> transaction... and they take 7-10 business days to convert btc to cash or
>>>> visa versa.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all the "mining" is
>>>> being done by huge datacenters (for another 3-4 years is all), then I don't
>>>> see it becoming the new money standard like everyone thinks. You will still
>>>> have to pay fees, and someone else is still in control of your money. :(
>>>>
>>>> Travis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
> --
> Simon Westlake
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>
>
>
> --
> Simon Westlake
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>
>
-- 
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Simon Westlake]

years... it's an
electronic ledger. What's a bank statement worth?
It's only a piece of printed paper or numbers on a
screen that show how much currency to which one is
entitled. It has no value in and of itself. A US
dollar bill is simply paper; its value is whatever
we all agree it is. The *big* thing
cryptocurrencies bring to the table is that your
"bank account" is no longer controlled by one
central building. Your account, or "digital wallet"
is controlled by thousands of computers, each
checking themselves against the other.

The only way someone can hijack the blockchain
would be if they controlled more than 50% of the
compute power in the mining world. Think about how
many vectors of attack from which our traditional
banks are vulnerable.

This video answered even more questions I didn't
even think to ask... I highly recommend giving it
your time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4>

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Travis
Johnson
        Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] BTC

Hi,

The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take
away the financial institutions from having
"control" and charging fees to handle money. In
exchange for no fees (sending or receiving BTC is
free), you also have no security. Once it's sent,
it's gone.

However, now the banks have just been replaced with
places like Coinbase... bitcoin "exchanges" that
charge roughly 1.5% for every buy/sell
transaction... and they take 7-10 business days to
convert btc to cash or visa versa.

I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all
the "mining" is being done by huge datacenters (for
another 3-4 years is all), then I don't see it
becoming the new money standard like everyone
thinks. You will still have to pay fees, and
someone else is still in control of your money. :(

Travis








-- 
Simon Westlake

Email:simon@sonar.software <mailto:simon@sonar.software>
Phone:(702) 447-1247 <tel:%28702%29%20447-1247>  US /(780) 900-1180 
<tel:%28780%29%20900-1180>  CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software




-- 
Simon Westlake

Email:simon@sonar.software <mailto:simon@sonar.software>
Phone:(702) 447-1247 <tel:%28702%29%20447-1247>  US /(780) 900-1180 
<tel:%28780%29%20900-1180>  CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software



--
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Steve Jones]

 which one is entitled. It has no value in and of
>>>> itself. A US dollar bill is simply paper; its value is whatever we all
>>>> agree it is. The *big* thing cryptocurrencies bring to the table is that
>>>> your "bank account" is no longer controlled by one central building. Your
>>>> account, or "digital wallet" is controlled by thousands of computers, each
>>>> checking themselves against the other.
>>>>
>>>> The only way someone can hijack the blockchain would be if they
>>>> controlled more than 50% of the compute power in the mining world. Think
>>>> about how many vectors of attack from which our traditional banks are
>>>> vulnerable.
>>>>
>>>> This video answered even more questions I didn't even think to ask... I
>>>> highly recommend giving it your time.
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4
>>>>
>>>> Chris Wright
>>>> Network Administrator
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] BTC
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the financial
>>>> institutions from having "control" and charging fees to handle money. In
>>>> exchange for no fees (sending or receiving BTC is free), you also have no
>>>> security. Once it's sent, it's gone.
>>>>
>>>> However, now the banks have just been replaced with places like
>>>> Coinbase... bitcoin "exchanges" that charge roughly 1.5% for every buy/sell
>>>> transaction... and they take 7-10 business days to convert btc to cash or
>>>> visa versa.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all the "mining" is
>>>> being done by huge datacenters (for another 3-4 years is all), then I don't
>>>> see it becoming the new money standard like everyone thinks. You will still
>>>> have to pay fees, and someone else is still in control of your money. :(
>>>>
>>>> Travis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
> --
> Simon Westlake
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>
>
>
> --
> Simon Westlake
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Simon Westlake]

nerable.

This video answered even more questions I didn't even
think to ask... I highly recommend giving it your time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4>

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
        Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] BTC

Hi,

The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the
financial institutions from having "control" and
charging fees to handle money. In exchange for no fees
(sending or receiving BTC is free), you also have no
security. Once it's sent, it's gone.

However, now the banks have just been replaced with
places like Coinbase... bitcoin "exchanges" that charge
roughly 1.5% for every buy/sell transaction... and they
take 7-10 business days to convert btc to cash or visa
versa.

I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all the
"mining" is being done by huge datacenters (for another
3-4 years is all), then I don't see it becoming the new
money standard like everyone thinks. You will still have
to pay fees, and someone else is still in control of
your money. :(

Travis








--
Simon Westlake
Email:simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software




--
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Bill Prince]

highly recommend giving it your time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4>

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
        Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] BTC

Hi,

The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the
financial institutions from having "control" and charging
fees to handle money. In exchange for no fees (sending or
receiving BTC is free), you also have no security. Once
it's sent, it's gone.

However, now the banks have just been replaced with
places like Coinbase... bitcoin "exchanges" that charge
roughly 1.5% for every buy/sell transaction... and they
take 7-10 business days to convert btc to cash or visa versa.

I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all the
"mining" is being done by huge datacenters (for another
3-4 years is all), then I don't see it becoming the new
money standard like everyone thinks. You will still have
to pay fees, and someone else is still in control of your
money. :(

Travis








--
Simon Westlake
Email:simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Simon Westlake]

 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4>

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
    Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] BTC

Hi,

The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the
financial institutions from having "control" and charging
fees to handle money. In exchange for no fees (sending or
receiving BTC is free), you also have no security. Once
it's sent, it's gone.

However, now the banks have just been replaced with places
like Coinbase... bitcoin "exchanges" that charge roughly
1.5% for every buy/sell transaction... and they take 7-10
business days to convert btc to cash or visa versa.

I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all the
"mining" is being done by huge datacenters (for another
3-4 years is all), then I don't see it becoming the new
money standard like everyone thinks. You will still have
to pay fees, and someone else is still in control of your
money. :(

Travis








--
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Steve Jones]

Out of curiousity, down in puerto rico, was that cryptocurrency buying any
gas, water ot food?

On Nov 17, 2017 4:48 PM, "Sean Heskett" <af...@zirkel.us> wrote:

> Hey Travis and gang,
>
> Here's a really good audiobook that does a deep dive into all things
> cryptocurrency.  It was written by a couple of Wall Street Journalist.  The
> link below is to audible.com.  It answers a lot of the questions you are
> asking.
>
> 
>
> Hi,
>
> I've listened to this audiobook, "The Age of Cryptocurrency: How Bitcoin
> and Digital Money Are Challenging the Global Economic Order" by Paul Vigna,
> Michael J. Casey, and thought you would enjoy it, too.
>
> It's totally free and you won't need a credit card if it is your first
> time accepting an Audible book from a friend.
>
> Get it here <http://a.co/69VdGfJ>
>
> -
> After you accept the book, you will be prompted to download the Audible
> app to start listening.
>
> Enjoy!
>
>
> -Sean
>
> On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I agree with most of what you said here... however, the original premise
>> for BTC was that everyone was tired of the "banks" controlling the money...
>> and charging fees to do so. I just really don't see how that has changed
>> much... I currently have 4 or 5 bank accounts, all at different banks...
>> and I control all of them from my computer. I can
>> send/receive/wire/transfer money in and out of any of them at my own will.
>>
>> Also, how is sending BTC from wallet to wallet not free? I have sent BTC
>> to other people without being charged a fee... I was doing it from my own
>> wallet on a computer, not using a service.
>>
>> For me it just doesn't make sense... I can have a totally free bank
>> account with an ATM/VISA card that I can use anywhere and not have to worry
>> about getting hit with fees or the value of my "money" changing every 5
>> seconds... and it's insured and if there is an issue (fraud, etc) the bank
>> covers it. I get none of those features with BTC, and I have to pay a much
>> higher "fee" to use it.
>>
>> The current state of BTC is not how it was envisioned when it was first
>> created. It has become commercialized and everyone is after their 1.5% fee.
>> :(
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/17/2017 12:28 PM, Chris Wright wrote:
>>
>>> Many of the negative things you say here about BTC are questions I had
>>> when I was still learning. Let me clear some things up.
>>>
>>> Coinbase charges for when you want to buy BTC with fiat (USD). They have
>>> a business to run. Everyone here knows that processing debit/ACH payments
>>> is NOT free. Onboarding your US dollars to crypto currency will require a
>>> gateway, and every gate requires a gatekeeper, and every gatekeeper has
>>> mouths to feed.
>>>
>>> Sending BTC from wallet to wallet is not free. Current transaction fees
>>> on Bitcoin are ~$10 USD at the time I'm writing this. Other crypto
>>> currencies like Ethereum are more robust in this area (~$0.30 currently).
>>> Every transaction needs to be written to the blockchain, which requires
>>> mining time, electricity, and processing.
>>>
>>> Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are doing what the banks have been
>>> doing for years... it's an electronic ledger. What's a bank statement
>>> worth? It's only a piece of printed paper or numbers on a screen that show
>>> how much currency to which one is entitled. It has no value in and of
>>> itself. A US dollar bill is simply paper; its value is whatever we all
>>> agree it is. The *big* thing cryptocurrencies bring to the table is that
>>> your "bank account" is no longer controlled by one central building. Your
>>> account, or "digital wallet" is controlled by thousands of computers, each
>>> checking themselves against the other.
>>>
>>> The only way someone can hijack the blockchain would be if they
>>> controlled more than 50% of the compute power in the mining world. Think
>>> about how many vectors of attack from which our traditional banks are
>>> vulnerable.
>>>
>>> This video answered even more questions I didn't even think to ask... I
>>> highly recommend giving it your time.
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4
>>>
>>> Chris Wright
>>> Network Administ

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Sean Heskett]

Hey Travis and gang,

Here's a really good audiobook that does a deep dive into all things
cryptocurrency.  It was written by a couple of Wall Street Journalist.  The
link below is to audible.com.  It answers a lot of the questions you are
asking.



Hi,

I've listened to this audiobook, "The Age of Cryptocurrency: How Bitcoin
and Digital Money Are Challenging the Global Economic Order" by Paul Vigna,
Michael J. Casey, and thought you would enjoy it, too.

It's totally free and you won't need a credit card if it is your first time
accepting an Audible book from a friend.

Get it here <http://a.co/69VdGfJ>

-
After you accept the book, you will be prompted to download the Audible app
to start listening.

Enjoy!


-Sean

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I agree with most of what you said here... however, the original premise
> for BTC was that everyone was tired of the "banks" controlling the money...
> and charging fees to do so. I just really don't see how that has changed
> much... I currently have 4 or 5 bank accounts, all at different banks...
> and I control all of them from my computer. I can
> send/receive/wire/transfer money in and out of any of them at my own will.
>
> Also, how is sending BTC from wallet to wallet not free? I have sent BTC
> to other people without being charged a fee... I was doing it from my own
> wallet on a computer, not using a service.
>
> For me it just doesn't make sense... I can have a totally free bank
> account with an ATM/VISA card that I can use anywhere and not have to worry
> about getting hit with fees or the value of my "money" changing every 5
> seconds... and it's insured and if there is an issue (fraud, etc) the bank
> covers it. I get none of those features with BTC, and I have to pay a much
> higher "fee" to use it.
>
> The current state of BTC is not how it was envisioned when it was first
> created. It has become commercialized and everyone is after their 1.5% fee.
> :(
>
> Travis
>
>
>
> On 11/17/2017 12:28 PM, Chris Wright wrote:
>
>> Many of the negative things you say here about BTC are questions I had
>> when I was still learning. Let me clear some things up.
>>
>> Coinbase charges for when you want to buy BTC with fiat (USD). They have
>> a business to run. Everyone here knows that processing debit/ACH payments
>> is NOT free. Onboarding your US dollars to crypto currency will require a
>> gateway, and every gate requires a gatekeeper, and every gatekeeper has
>> mouths to feed.
>>
>> Sending BTC from wallet to wallet is not free. Current transaction fees
>> on Bitcoin are ~$10 USD at the time I'm writing this. Other crypto
>> currencies like Ethereum are more robust in this area (~$0.30 currently).
>> Every transaction needs to be written to the blockchain, which requires
>> mining time, electricity, and processing.
>>
>> Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are doing what the banks have been
>> doing for years... it's an electronic ledger. What's a bank statement
>> worth? It's only a piece of printed paper or numbers on a screen that show
>> how much currency to which one is entitled. It has no value in and of
>> itself. A US dollar bill is simply paper; its value is whatever we all
>> agree it is. The *big* thing cryptocurrencies bring to the table is that
>> your "bank account" is no longer controlled by one central building. Your
>> account, or "digital wallet" is controlled by thousands of computers, each
>> checking themselves against the other.
>>
>> The only way someone can hijack the blockchain would be if they
>> controlled more than 50% of the compute power in the mining world. Think
>> about how many vectors of attack from which our traditional banks are
>> vulnerable.
>>
>> This video answered even more questions I didn't even think to ask... I
>> highly recommend giving it your time.
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4
>>
>> Chris Wright
>> Network Administrator
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: [AFMUG] BTC
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the financial
>> institutions from having "control" and charging fees to handle money. In
>> exchange for no fees (sending or receiving BTC is free), you also have no
>> security. Once it's sent, it's gone.
>>
>> However,

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Adam Moffett]

I'm going to become a hunter-gatherer and leave all these complex topics 
behind.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chris Wright" <ch...@velociter.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/17/2017 4:01:52 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC

Sure, but then you run the very real risk of your transaction being 
unconfirmed indefinitely because there is no incentive for anyone to 
mine it. If there were no fees then any one user could DoS the network 
with bogus transactions.




Chris Wright

Network Administrator



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Simon Westlake
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 12:54 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC



There's nothing stopping you from using it without paying, you just 
don't move it through a broker or exchange.


If you send me Bitcoin direct wallet to wallet, it's free. If I pay 
someone for services in BTC, it's free. If I mine BTC, I don't have to 
pay anyone. There's only a cost if I want to exchange it from or to 
another currency, which is pretty standard.


As far as your statements about it not making sense, you are completely 
right - if those are your primary requirements (insurance, fraud 
handling, etc) Bitcoin is not a good replacement for your VISA card.


On 11/17/2017 2:43 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

I agree with most of what you said here... however, the original 
premise for BTC was that everyone was tired of the "banks" controlling 
the money... and charging fees to do so. I just really don't see how 
that has changed much... I currently have 4 or 5 bank accounts, all at 
different banks... and I control all of them from my computer. I can 
send/receive/wire/transfer money in and out of any of them at my own 
will.


Also, how is sending BTC from wallet to wallet not free? I have sent 
BTC to other people without being charged a fee... I was doing it from 
my own wallet on a computer, not using a service.


For me it just doesn't make sense... I can have a totally free bank 
account with an ATM/VISA card that I can use anywhere and not have to 
worry about getting hit with fees or the value of my "money" changing 
every 5 seconds... and it's insured and if there is an issue (fraud, 
etc) the bank covers it. I get none of those features with BTC, and I 
have to pay a much higher "fee" to use it.


The current state of BTC is not how it was envisioned when it was 
first created. It has become commercialized and everyone is after 
their 1.5% fee. :(


Travis


On 11/17/2017 12:28 PM, Chris Wright wrote:


Many of the negative things you say here about BTC are questions I had 
when I was still learning. Let me clear some things up.


Coinbase charges for when you want to buy BTC with fiat (USD). They 
have a business to run. Everyone here knows that processing debit/ACH 
payments is NOT free. Onboarding your US dollars to crypto currency 
will require a gateway, and every gate requires a gatekeeper, and 
every gatekeeper has mouths to feed.


Sending BTC from wallet to wallet is not free. Current transaction 
fees on Bitcoin are ~$10 USD at the time I'm writing this. Other 
crypto currencies like Ethereum are more robust in this area (~$0.30 
currently). Every transaction needs to be written to the blockchain, 
which requires mining time, electricity, and processing.


Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are doing what the banks have been 
doing for years... it's an electronic ledger. What's a bank statement 
worth? It's only a piece of printed paper or numbers on a screen that 
show how much currency to which one is entitled. It has no value in 
and of itself. A US dollar bill is simply paper; its value is whatever 
we all agree it is. The *big* thing cryptocurrencies bring to the 
table is that your "bank account" is no longer controlled by one 
central building. Your account, or "digital wallet" is controlled by 
thousands of computers, each checking themselves against the other.


The only way someone can hijack the blockchain would be if they 
controlled more than 50% of the compute power in the mining world. 
Think about how many vectors of attack from which our traditional 
banks are vulnerable.


This video answered even more questions I didn't even think to ask... 
I highly recommend giving it your time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] BTC

Hi,

The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the financial 
institutions from having "control" and charging fees to handle money. 
In exchange for no fees (sending or receiving BTC is free), you also 
have no security. Once it's sent, it's gone.


However, now the banks have just been replaced with places like 
Coinbase... bitcoin "exchanges" that charge roughly 1.5% for e

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Chris Wright]

Sure, but then you run the very real risk of your transaction being unconfirmed 
indefinitely because there is no incentive for anyone to mine it. If there were 
no fees then any one user could DoS the network with bogus transactions. 

 

Chris Wright

Network Administrator

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Simon Westlake
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 12:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC

 

There's nothing stopping you from using it without paying, you just don't move 
it through a broker or exchange.

If you send me Bitcoin direct wallet to wallet, it's free. If I pay someone for 
services in BTC, it's free. If I mine BTC, I don't have to pay anyone. There's 
only a cost if I want to exchange it from or to another currency, which is 
pretty standard.

As far as your statements about it not making sense, you are completely right - 
if those are your primary requirements (insurance, fraud handling, etc) Bitcoin 
is not a good replacement for your VISA card.

On 11/17/2017 2:43 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

Hi, 

I agree with most of what you said here... however, the original premise for 
BTC was that everyone was tired of the "banks" controlling the money... and 
charging fees to do so. I just really don't see how that has changed much... I 
currently have 4 or 5 bank accounts, all at different banks... and I control 
all of them from my computer. I can send/receive/wire/transfer money in and out 
of any of them at my own will. 

Also, how is sending BTC from wallet to wallet not free? I have sent BTC to 
other people without being charged a fee... I was doing it from my own wallet 
on a computer, not using a service. 

For me it just doesn't make sense... I can have a totally free bank account 
with an ATM/VISA card that I can use anywhere and not have to worry about 
getting hit with fees or the value of my "money" changing every 5 seconds... 
and it's insured and if there is an issue (fraud, etc) the bank covers it. I 
get none of those features with BTC, and I have to pay a much higher "fee" to 
use it. 

The current state of BTC is not how it was envisioned when it was first 
created. It has become commercialized and everyone is after their 1.5% fee. :( 

Travis 


On 11/17/2017 12:28 PM, Chris Wright wrote: 



Many of the negative things you say here about BTC are questions I had when I 
was still learning. Let me clear some things up. 

Coinbase charges for when you want to buy BTC with fiat (USD). They have a 
business to run. Everyone here knows that processing debit/ACH payments is NOT 
free. Onboarding your US dollars to crypto currency will require a gateway, and 
every gate requires a gatekeeper, and every gatekeeper has mouths to feed. 

Sending BTC from wallet to wallet is not free. Current transaction fees on 
Bitcoin are ~$10 USD at the time I'm writing this. Other crypto currencies like 
Ethereum are more robust in this area (~$0.30 currently). Every transaction 
needs to be written to the blockchain, which requires mining time, electricity, 
and processing. 

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are doing what the banks have been doing for 
years... it's an electronic ledger. What's a bank statement worth? It's only a 
piece of printed paper or numbers on a screen that show how much currency to 
which one is entitled. It has no value in and of itself. A US dollar bill is 
simply paper; its value is whatever we all agree it is. The *big* thing 
cryptocurrencies bring to the table is that your "bank account" is no longer 
controlled by one central building. Your account, or "digital wallet" is 
controlled by thousands of computers, each checking themselves against the 
other. 

The only way someone can hijack the blockchain would be if they controlled more 
than 50% of the compute power in the mining world. Think about how many vectors 
of attack from which our traditional banks are vulnerable. 

This video answered even more questions I didn't even think to ask... I highly 
recommend giving it your time. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4 

Chris Wright 
Network Administrator 

-Original Message- 
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson 
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] BTC 

Hi, 

The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the financial institutions 
from having "control" and charging fees to handle money. In exchange for no 
fees (sending or receiving BTC is free), you also have no security. Once it's 
sent, it's gone. 

However, now the banks have just been replaced with places like Coinbase... 
bitcoin "exchanges" that charge roughly 1.5% for every buy/sell transaction... 
and they take 7-10 business days to convert btc to cash or visa versa. 

I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all the "mining" is being done 
by huge datacenters (for another 3-4 years is

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Simon Westlake]

There's nothing stopping you from using it without paying, you just 
don't move it through a broker or exchange.


If you send me Bitcoin direct wallet to wallet, it's free. If I pay 
someone for services in BTC, it's free. If I mine BTC, I don't have to 
pay anyone. There's only a cost if I want to exchange it from or to 
another currency, which is pretty standard.


As far as your statements about it not making sense, you are completely 
right - if those are your primary requirements (insurance, fraud 
handling, etc) Bitcoin is not a good replacement for your VISA card.


On 11/17/2017 2:43 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

Hi,

I agree with most of what you said here... however, the original 
premise for BTC was that everyone was tired of the "banks" controlling 
the money... and charging fees to do so. I just really don't see how 
that has changed much... I currently have 4 or 5 bank accounts, all at 
different banks... and I control all of them from my computer. I can 
send/receive/wire/transfer money in and out of any of them at my own 
will.


Also, how is sending BTC from wallet to wallet not free? I have sent 
BTC to other people without being charged a fee... I was doing it from 
my own wallet on a computer, not using a service.


For me it just doesn't make sense... I can have a totally free bank 
account with an ATM/VISA card that I can use anywhere and not have to 
worry about getting hit with fees or the value of my "money" changing 
every 5 seconds... and it's insured and if there is an issue (fraud, 
etc) the bank covers it. I get none of those features with BTC, and I 
have to pay a much higher "fee" to use it.


The current state of BTC is not how it was envisioned when it was 
first created. It has become commercialized and everyone is after 
their 1.5% fee. :(


Travis


On 11/17/2017 12:28 PM, Chris Wright wrote:
Many of the negative things you say here about BTC are questions I 
had when I was still learning. Let me clear some things up.


Coinbase charges for when you want to buy BTC with fiat (USD). They 
have a business to run. Everyone here knows that processing debit/ACH 
payments is NOT free. Onboarding your US dollars to crypto currency 
will require a gateway, and every gate requires a gatekeeper, and 
every gatekeeper has mouths to feed.


Sending BTC from wallet to wallet is not free. Current transaction 
fees on Bitcoin are ~$10 USD at the time I'm writing this. Other 
crypto currencies like Ethereum are more robust in this area (~$0.30 
currently). Every transaction needs to be written to the blockchain, 
which requires mining time, electricity, and processing.


Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are doing what the banks have been 
doing for years... it's an electronic ledger. What's a bank statement 
worth? It's only a piece of printed paper or numbers on a screen that 
show how much currency to which one is entitled. It has no value in 
and of itself. A US dollar bill is simply paper; its value is 
whatever we all agree it is. The *big* thing cryptocurrencies bring 
to the table is that your "bank account" is no longer controlled by 
one central building. Your account, or "digital wallet" is controlled 
by thousands of computers, each checking themselves against the other.


The only way someone can hijack the blockchain would be if they 
controlled more than 50% of the compute power in the mining world. 
Think about how many vectors of attack from which our traditional 
banks are vulnerable.


This video answered even more questions I didn't even think to ask... 
I highly recommend giving it your time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] BTC

Hi,

The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the financial 
institutions from having "control" and charging fees to handle money. 
In exchange for no fees (sending or receiving BTC is free), you also 
have no security. Once it's sent, it's gone.


However, now the banks have just been replaced with places like 
Coinbase... bitcoin "exchanges" that charge roughly 1.5% for every 
buy/sell transaction... and they take 7-10 business days to convert 
btc to cash or visa versa.


I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all the "mining" is 
being done by huge datacenters (for another 3-4 years is all), then I 
don't see it becoming the new money standard like everyone thinks. 
You will still have to pay fees, and someone else is still in control 
of your money. :(


Travis








--
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

I agree with most of what you said here... however, the original premise 
for BTC was that everyone was tired of the "banks" controlling the 
money... and charging fees to do so. I just really don't see how that 
has changed much... I currently have 4 or 5 bank accounts, all at 
different banks... and I control all of them from my computer. I can 
send/receive/wire/transfer money in and out of any of them at my own will.


Also, how is sending BTC from wallet to wallet not free? I have sent BTC 
to other people without being charged a fee... I was doing it from my 
own wallet on a computer, not using a service.


For me it just doesn't make sense... I can have a totally free bank 
account with an ATM/VISA card that I can use anywhere and not have to 
worry about getting hit with fees or the value of my "money" changing 
every 5 seconds... and it's insured and if there is an issue (fraud, 
etc) the bank covers it. I get none of those features with BTC, and I 
have to pay a much higher "fee" to use it.


The current state of BTC is not how it was envisioned when it was first 
created. It has become commercialized and everyone is after their 1.5% 
fee. :(


Travis


On 11/17/2017 12:28 PM, Chris Wright wrote:

Many of the negative things you say here about BTC are questions I had when I 
was still learning. Let me clear some things up.

Coinbase charges for when you want to buy BTC with fiat (USD). They have a 
business to run. Everyone here knows that processing debit/ACH payments is NOT 
free. Onboarding your US dollars to crypto currency will require a gateway, and 
every gate requires a gatekeeper, and every gatekeeper has mouths to feed.

Sending BTC from wallet to wallet is not free. Current transaction fees on 
Bitcoin are ~$10 USD at the time I'm writing this. Other crypto currencies like 
Ethereum are more robust in this area (~$0.30 currently). Every transaction 
needs to be written to the blockchain, which requires mining time, electricity, 
and processing.

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are doing what the banks have been doing for years... it's an 
electronic ledger. What's a bank statement worth? It's only a piece of printed paper or numbers on 
a screen that show how much currency to which one is entitled. It has no value in and of itself. A 
US dollar bill is simply paper; its value is whatever we all agree it is. The *big* thing 
cryptocurrencies bring to the table is that your "bank account" is no longer controlled 
by one central building. Your account, or "digital wallet" is controlled by thousands of 
computers, each checking themselves against the other.

The only way someone can hijack the blockchain would be if they controlled more 
than 50% of the compute power in the mining world. Think about how many vectors 
of attack from which our traditional banks are vulnerable.

This video answered even more questions I didn't even think to ask... I highly 
recommend giving it your time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] BTC

Hi,

The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the financial institutions from 
having "control" and charging fees to handle money. In exchange for no fees 
(sending or receiving BTC is free), you also have no security. Once it's sent, it's gone.

However, now the banks have just been replaced with places like Coinbase... bitcoin 
"exchanges" that charge roughly 1.5% for every buy/sell transaction... and they 
take 7-10 business days to convert btc to cash or visa versa.

I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all the "mining" is being done 
by huge datacenters (for another 3-4 years is all), then I don't see it becoming the new 
money standard like everyone thinks. You will still have to pay fees, and someone else is 
still in control of your money. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[chuck]

That was a good video.  I knew about 80% of it but one thing that I did not 
know until now was that the hash of a block is included as the header of the 
next block.  That makes it pretty danged secure.


-Original Message- 
From: Chris Wright

Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 12:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC

Many of the negative things you say here about BTC are questions I had when 
I was still learning. Let me clear some things up.


Coinbase charges for when you want to buy BTC with fiat (USD). They have a 
business to run. Everyone here knows that processing debit/ACH payments is 
NOT free. Onboarding your US dollars to crypto currency will require a 
gateway, and every gate requires a gatekeeper, and every gatekeeper has 
mouths to feed.


Sending BTC from wallet to wallet is not free. Current transaction fees on 
Bitcoin are ~$10 USD at the time I'm writing this. Other crypto currencies 
like Ethereum are more robust in this area (~$0.30 currently). Every 
transaction needs to be written to the blockchain, which requires mining 
time, electricity, and processing.


Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are doing what the banks have been doing 
for years... it's an electronic ledger. What's a bank statement worth? It's 
only a piece of printed paper or numbers on a screen that show how much 
currency to which one is entitled. It has no value in and of itself. A US 
dollar bill is simply paper; its value is whatever we all agree it is. The 
*big* thing cryptocurrencies bring to the table is that your "bank account" 
is no longer controlled by one central building. Your account, or "digital 
wallet" is controlled by thousands of computers, each checking themselves 
against the other.


The only way someone can hijack the blockchain would be if they controlled 
more than 50% of the compute power in the mining world. Think about how many 
vectors of attack from which our traditional banks are vulnerable.


This video answered even more questions I didn't even think to ask... I 
highly recommend giving it your time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] BTC

Hi,

The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the financial 
institutions from having "control" and charging fees to handle money. In 
exchange for no fees (sending or receiving BTC is free), you also have no 
security. Once it's sent, it's gone.


However, now the banks have just been replaced with places like Coinbase... 
bitcoin "exchanges" that charge roughly 1.5% for every buy/sell 
transaction... and they take 7-10 business days to convert btc to cash or 
visa versa.


I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all the "mining" is being 
done by huge datacenters (for another 3-4 years is all), then I don't see it 
becoming the new money standard like everyone thinks. You will still have to 
pay fees, and someone else is still in control of your money. :(


Travis

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Steve Jones]

"The only way"

The only way to defeat WPA2 is to decrypt it and it would take forever
or um you just make it give you the key in plain text

1 hard fork already, one just abandoned... so yes, there IS a "central bank"

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Chris Wright <ch...@velociter.net> wrote:

> Many of the negative things you say here about BTC are questions I had
> when I was still learning. Let me clear some things up.
>
> Coinbase charges for when you want to buy BTC with fiat (USD). They have a
> business to run. Everyone here knows that processing debit/ACH payments is
> NOT free. Onboarding your US dollars to crypto currency will require a
> gateway, and every gate requires a gatekeeper, and every gatekeeper has
> mouths to feed.
>
> Sending BTC from wallet to wallet is not free. Current transaction fees on
> Bitcoin are ~$10 USD at the time I'm writing this. Other crypto currencies
> like Ethereum are more robust in this area (~$0.30 currently). Every
> transaction needs to be written to the blockchain, which requires mining
> time, electricity, and processing.
>
> Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are doing what the banks have been
> doing for years... it's an electronic ledger. What's a bank statement
> worth? It's only a piece of printed paper or numbers on a screen that show
> how much currency to which one is entitled. It has no value in and of
> itself. A US dollar bill is simply paper; its value is whatever we all
> agree it is. The *big* thing cryptocurrencies bring to the table is that
> your "bank account" is no longer controlled by one central building. Your
> account, or "digital wallet" is controlled by thousands of computers, each
> checking themselves against the other.
>
> The only way someone can hijack the blockchain would be if they controlled
> more than 50% of the compute power in the mining world. Think about how
> many vectors of attack from which our traditional banks are vulnerable.
>
> This video answered even more questions I didn't even think to ask... I
> highly recommend giving it your time.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4
>
> Chris Wright
> Network Administrator
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] BTC
>
> Hi,
>
> The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the financial
> institutions from having "control" and charging fees to handle money. In
> exchange for no fees (sending or receiving BTC is free), you also have no
> security. Once it's sent, it's gone.
>
> However, now the banks have just been replaced with places like
> Coinbase... bitcoin "exchanges" that charge roughly 1.5% for every buy/sell
> transaction... and they take 7-10 business days to convert btc to cash or
> visa versa.
>
> I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all the "mining" is being
> done by huge datacenters (for another 3-4 years is all), then I don't see
> it becoming the new money standard like everyone thinks. You will still
> have to pay fees, and someone else is still in control of your money. :(
>
> Travis
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Chris Wright]

Many of the negative things you say here about BTC are questions I had when I 
was still learning. Let me clear some things up.

Coinbase charges for when you want to buy BTC with fiat (USD). They have a 
business to run. Everyone here knows that processing debit/ACH payments is NOT 
free. Onboarding your US dollars to crypto currency will require a gateway, and 
every gate requires a gatekeeper, and every gatekeeper has mouths to feed.

Sending BTC from wallet to wallet is not free. Current transaction fees on 
Bitcoin are ~$10 USD at the time I'm writing this. Other crypto currencies like 
Ethereum are more robust in this area (~$0.30 currently). Every transaction 
needs to be written to the blockchain, which requires mining time, electricity, 
and processing.

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are doing what the banks have been doing for 
years... it's an electronic ledger. What's a bank statement worth? It's only a 
piece of printed paper or numbers on a screen that show how much currency to 
which one is entitled. It has no value in and of itself. A US dollar bill is 
simply paper; its value is whatever we all agree it is. The *big* thing 
cryptocurrencies bring to the table is that your "bank account" is no longer 
controlled by one central building. Your account, or "digital wallet" is 
controlled by thousands of computers, each checking themselves against the 
other.

The only way someone can hijack the blockchain would be if they controlled more 
than 50% of the compute power in the mining world. Think about how many vectors 
of attack from which our traditional banks are vulnerable.

This video answered even more questions I didn't even think to ask... I highly 
recommend giving it your time. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] BTC

Hi,

The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the financial institutions 
from having "control" and charging fees to handle money. In exchange for no 
fees (sending or receiving BTC is free), you also have no security. Once it's 
sent, it's gone.

However, now the banks have just been replaced with places like Coinbase... 
bitcoin "exchanges" that charge roughly 1.5% for every buy/sell transaction... 
and they take 7-10 business days to convert btc to cash or visa versa.

I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all the "mining" is being done 
by huge datacenters (for another 3-4 years is all), then I don't see it 
becoming the new money standard like everyone thinks. You will still have to 
pay fees, and someone else is still in control of your money. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Rory Conaway]

It’s also a great way to raise investment capital.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 5:39 PM
To: af <af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BTC

I don't see how bitcoin in it's current form can ever become a real money 
standard. Perhaps someday there will be a viable cryptocurrency type of system 
that can replace money as we know it, but I just don't see bitcoin being it... 
there are way too many potential problems.

Besides all the issues Steve pointed out, I don't see how it can be used for 
actual money when the price is so unstable... it seems more like some kind of a 
scam for a few people to get rich off of than money.

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Steve Jones 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
banks dont hard fork when theyre robbed
Mr robot is just a tv show
deep down inside, humans are realists, the reality is that all currency, like 
its representative nation, has a shelf life outside its intrinsic physical 
bartering value.
Tangible currency can be lost and found. I drop my wallet, its gone to me, but 
still exists, someone else can find it and use it. Lose your BTC wallet, its 
gone, and its tied up forever, its worse than fiat currency in that there is no 
recourse. You can insure a bank against robbery, if you catch the robber with 
the goods, you can reach in the bag and reinstate the currency.
Wait until the perfect malware, and there will be a perfect malware, breaks the 
chain. Then the tried and true representative precious metal (or whichever 
barter-able commodity) standard proves to be bar whore reliable reality that it 
is.
Fees are the lowest concern in the real chain
I could be wrong, quite often I am. But Ill hedge a bet people in 25 years will 
speak as fondly of block chain currency as they do the Edsel.

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Travis Johnson 
<t...@ida.net<mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:
Hi,

The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the financial institutions 
from having "control" and charging fees to handle money. In exchange for no 
fees (sending or receiving BTC is free), you also have no security. Once it's 
sent, it's gone.

However, now the banks have just been replaced with places like Coinbase... 
bitcoin "exchanges" that charge roughly 1.5% for every buy/sell transaction... 
and they take 7-10 business days to convert btc to cash or visa versa.

I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all the "mining" is being done 
by huge datacenters (for another 3-4 years is all), then I don't see it 
becoming the new money standard like everyone thinks. You will still have to 
pay fees, and someone else is still in control of your money. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Mathew Howard]

I don't see how bitcoin in it's current form can ever become a real money
standard. Perhaps someday there will be a viable cryptocurrency type of
system that can replace money as we know it, but I just don't see bitcoin
being it... there are way too many potential problems.

Besides all the issues Steve pointed out, I don't see how it can be used
for actual money when the price is so unstable... it seems more like some
kind of a scam for a few people to get rich off of than money.

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> banks dont hard fork when theyre robbed
> Mr robot is just a tv show
> deep down inside, humans are realists, the reality is that all currency,
> like its representative nation, has a shelf life outside its intrinsic
> physical bartering value.
> Tangible currency can be lost and found. I drop my wallet, its gone to me,
> but still exists, someone else can find it and use it. Lose your BTC
> wallet, its gone, and its tied up forever, its worse than fiat currency in
> that there is no recourse. You can insure a bank against robbery, if you
> catch the robber with the goods, you can reach in the bag and reinstate the
> currency.
> Wait until the perfect malware, and there will be a perfect malware,
> breaks the chain. Then the tried and true representative precious metal (or
> whichever barter-able commodity) standard proves to be bar whore reliable
> reality that it is.
> Fees are the lowest concern in the real chain
> I could be wrong, quite often I am. But Ill hedge a bet people in 25 years
> will speak as fondly of block chain currency as they do the Edsel.
>
> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the financial
>> institutions from having "control" and charging fees to handle money. In
>> exchange for no fees (sending or receiving BTC is free), you also have no
>> security. Once it's sent, it's gone.
>>
>> However, now the banks have just been replaced with places like
>> Coinbase... bitcoin "exchanges" that charge roughly 1.5% for every buy/sell
>> transaction... and they take 7-10 business days to convert btc to cash or
>> visa versa.
>>
>> I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all the "mining" is being
>> done by huge datacenters (for another 3-4 years is all), then I don't see
>> it becoming the new money standard like everyone thinks. You will still
>> have to pay fees, and someone else is still in control of your money. :(
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BTC

[Steve Jones]

banks dont hard fork when theyre robbed
Mr robot is just a tv show
deep down inside, humans are realists, the reality is that all currency,
like its representative nation, has a shelf life outside its intrinsic
physical bartering value.
Tangible currency can be lost and found. I drop my wallet, its gone to me,
but still exists, someone else can find it and use it. Lose your BTC
wallet, its gone, and its tied up forever, its worse than fiat currency in
that there is no recourse. You can insure a bank against robbery, if you
catch the robber with the goods, you can reach in the bag and reinstate the
currency.
Wait until the perfect malware, and there will be a perfect malware, breaks
the chain. Then the tried and true representative precious metal (or
whichever barter-able commodity) standard proves to be bar whore reliable
reality that it is.
Fees are the lowest concern in the real chain
I could be wrong, quite often I am. But Ill hedge a bet people in 25 years
will speak as fondly of block chain currency as they do the Edsel.

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the financial
> institutions from having "control" and charging fees to handle money. In
> exchange for no fees (sending or receiving BTC is free), you also have no
> security. Once it's sent, it's gone.
>
> However, now the banks have just been replaced with places like
> Coinbase... bitcoin "exchanges" that charge roughly 1.5% for every buy/sell
> transaction... and they take 7-10 business days to convert btc to cash or
> visa versa.
>
> I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all the "mining" is being
> done by huge datacenters (for another 3-4 years is all), then I don't see
> it becoming the new money standard like everyone thinks. You will still
> have to pay fees, and someone else is still in control of your money. :(
>
> Travis
>
>

[AFMUG] BTC

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

The entire idea and goal of bitcoin was to take away the financial 
institutions from having "control" and charging fees to handle money. In 
exchange for no fees (sending or receiving BTC is free), you also have 
no security. Once it's sent, it's gone.


However, now the banks have just been replaced with places like 
Coinbase... bitcoin "exchanges" that charge roughly 1.5% for every 
buy/sell transaction... and they take 7-10 business days to convert btc 
to cash or visa versa.


I don't see how this is a long term thing? Once all the "mining" is 
being done by huge datacenters (for another 3-4 years is all), then I 
don't see it becoming the new money standard like everyone thinks. You 
will still have to pay fees, and someone else is still in control of 
your money. :(


Travis