Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[Mike Hammett]

For those not in our area... {S welcome 


The receive beam forming wouldn't help (other than mitigating some of the 
interference), but it does have active out of channel filtering like the 
airPrism, so that should help as well. Not significantly, mind you, but some. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Nate Burke" <n...@blastcomm.com> 
To: "Animal Farm" <af@afmug.com> 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 3:02:36 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question 

So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side. If you have a 
customer that is in line with the source of the Interference, they're 
still hosed right? The AP still wont' be able to hear them over the noise. 

I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the AP is running 
about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1 and 5.7) I think the source 
of the interference is a close by corporate campus that's probably 
flooded with 5ghz wifi, and this customer is directly in between the 
tower and the campus. I can only get MCS level 1 on the upstream side 
with a receive level of -48. EPMP2000 would have no effect in this 
scenario, right? 

Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[Bill Prince]

Excellent point. If you have a big sector, you won't be able to 
distinguish where the noise is coming from. If you have beam steering, 
you may be able to block out different frequencies in different directions.


The real trick would be the ability to use frequency A in sub-sector A, 
and frequency B in sub-sector B, and so on.



bp


On 10/28/2016 2:06 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Yeah, true... it certainly wouldn't hurt. Also, if all of the noise 
isn't actually coming from the same location, you could potentially 
find a clean channel using beam steering.


On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 4:02 PM, George Skorup > wrote:


BUT... the filter in the ePMP2000 may help you find a clean enough
slice of spectrum to make the customer work.

On 10/28/2016 3:59 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

Ok, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some sort of RF
Magic contained within the EPMP2000.

On 10/28/2016 3:42 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

Yep... if the interference wasn't in the same direction as the
customer, beam steering would help you, but I don't see that
it'd do much in this case.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>
wrote:

a blind AP is a blind AP no matter how you cut it, if the
interference is coming in from the same direction as the sm,
not alot you can do. with -50 floor that sector is
effectively not there. can you go lower with the sector and
hope ground clutter will mitigate the campus interference to
a point you can get a reasonable snr. compared to what you
have right now hin dropping to a -70 if you can get clutter
to -80 is better,
but if thats the floor, youre better served to get a tight
shielded directional antenna rather than a sector and do ptp

beamsteering is focusing energy at the subscriber more than
anything isnt it?

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Bill Prince
> wrote:

If the interference is on the subscriber end, it should
affect the downstream traffic. Interference on the AP
side (which you don't seem to be having) would affect he
upstream.

Something else is going on.


bp



On 10/28/2016 1:02 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream
side.  If you have a customer that is in line with
the source of the Interference, they're still hosed
right?  The AP still wont' be able to hear them over
the noise.

I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it
and the AP is running about -50 noise across the
entire band (5.1 and 5.7)  I think the source of the
interference is a close by corporate campus that's
probably flooded with 5ghz wifi, and this customer
is directly in between the tower and the campus.  I
can only get MCS level 1 on the upstream side with a
receive level of -48. EPMP2000 would have no effect
in this scenario, right?





-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but

you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already
failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, true... it certainly wouldn't hurt. Also, if all of the noise isn't
actually coming from the same location, you could potentially find a clean
channel using beam steering.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 4:02 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> BUT... the filter in the ePMP2000 may help you find a clean enough slice
> of spectrum to make the customer work.
>
> On 10/28/2016 3:59 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>
> Ok, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some sort of RF Magic
> contained within the EPMP2000.
>
> On 10/28/2016 3:42 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> Yep... if the interference wasn't in the same direction as the customer,
> beam steering would help you, but I don't see that it'd do much in this
> case.
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> a blind AP is a blind AP no matter how you cut it, if the interference is
>> coming in from the same direction as the sm, not alot you can do. with -50
>> floor that sector is effectively not there. can you go lower with the
>> sector and hope ground clutter will mitigate the campus interference to a
>> point you can get a reasonable snr. compared to what you have right now hin
>> dropping to a -70 if you can get clutter to -80 is better,
>> but if thats the floor, youre better served to get a tight shielded
>> directional antenna rather than a sector and do ptp
>>
>> beamsteering is focusing energy at the subscriber more than anything isnt
>> it?
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> If the interference is on the subscriber end, it should affect the
>>> downstream traffic. Interference on the AP side (which you don't seem to be
>>> having) would affect he upstream.
>>>
>>> Something else is going on.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/28/2016 1:02 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>>>
 So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side.  If you have a
 customer that is in line with the source of the Interference, they're still
 hosed right?  The AP still wont' be able to hear them over the noise.

 I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the AP is running
 about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1 and 5.7)  I think the source of
 the interference is a close by corporate campus that's probably flooded
 with 5ghz wifi, and this customer is directly in between the tower and the
 campus.  I can only get MCS level 1 on the upstream side with a receive
 level of -48. EPMP2000 would have no effect in this scenario, right?

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[George Skorup]

BUT... the filter in the ePMP2000 may help you find a clean enough slice 
of spectrum to make the customer work.


On 10/28/2016 3:59 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
Ok, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some sort of RF Magic 
contained within the EPMP2000.


On 10/28/2016 3:42 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Yep... if the interference wasn't in the same direction as the 
customer, beam steering would help you, but I don't see that it'd do 
much in this case.


On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:


a blind AP is a blind AP no matter how you cut it, if the
interference is coming in from the same direction as the sm, not
alot you can do. with -50 floor that sector is effectively not
there. can you go lower with the sector and hope ground clutter
will mitigate the campus interference to a point you can get a
reasonable snr. compared to what you have right now hin dropping
to a -70 if you can get clutter to -80 is better,
but if thats the floor, youre better served to get a tight
shielded directional antenna rather than a sector and do ptp

beamsteering is focusing energy at the subscriber more than
anything isnt it?

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Bill Prince
 wrote:

If the interference is on the subscriber end, it should
affect the downstream traffic. Interference on the AP side
(which you don't seem to be having) would affect he upstream.

Something else is going on.


bp



On 10/28/2016 1:02 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side. 
If you have a customer that is in line with the source of

the Interference, they're still hosed right? The AP still
wont' be able to hear them over the noise.

I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the
AP is running about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1
and 5.7)  I think the source of the interference is a
close by corporate campus that's probably flooded with
5ghz wifi, and this customer is directly in between the
tower and the campus.  I can only get MCS level 1 on the
upstream side with a receive level of -48. EPMP2000 would
have no effect in this scenario, right?





-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see

your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of
the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[Nate Burke]

Ok, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some sort of RF Magic 
contained within the EPMP2000.


On 10/28/2016 3:42 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Yep... if the interference wasn't in the same direction as the 
customer, beam steering would help you, but I don't see that it'd do 
much in this case.


On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
> wrote:


a blind AP is a blind AP no matter how you cut it, if the
interference is coming in from the same direction as the sm, not
alot you can do. with -50 floor that sector is effectively not
there. can you go lower with the sector and hope ground clutter
will mitigate the campus interference to a point you can get a
reasonable snr. compared to what you have right now hin dropping
to a -70 if you can get clutter to -80 is better,
but if thats the floor, youre better served to get a tight
shielded directional antenna rather than a sector and do ptp

beamsteering is focusing energy at the subscriber more than
anything isnt it?

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Bill Prince > wrote:

If the interference is on the subscriber end, it should affect
the downstream traffic. Interference on the AP side (which you
don't seem to be having) would affect he upstream.

Something else is going on.


bp



On 10/28/2016 1:02 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side. 
If you have a customer that is in line with the source of

the Interference, they're still hosed right? The AP still
wont' be able to hear them over the noise.

I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the
AP is running about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1
and 5.7)  I think the source of the interference is a
close by corporate campus that's probably flooded with
5ghz wifi, and this customer is directly in between the
tower and the campus.  I can only get MCS level 1 on the
upstream side with a receive level of -48. EPMP2000 would
have no effect in this scenario, right?





-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see

your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of
the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[Mathew Howard]

Yep... if the interference wasn't in the same direction as the customer,
beam steering would help you, but I don't see that it'd do much in this
case.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> a blind AP is a blind AP no matter how you cut it, if the interference is
> coming in from the same direction as the sm, not alot you can do. with -50
> floor that sector is effectively not there. can you go lower with the
> sector and hope ground clutter will mitigate the campus interference to a
> point you can get a reasonable snr. compared to what you have right now hin
> dropping to a -70 if you can get clutter to -80 is better,
> but if thats the floor, youre better served to get a tight shielded
> directional antenna rather than a sector and do ptp
>
> beamsteering is focusing energy at the subscriber more than anything isnt
> it?
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> If the interference is on the subscriber end, it should affect the
>> downstream traffic. Interference on the AP side (which you don't seem to be
>> having) would affect he upstream.
>>
>> Something else is going on.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 10/28/2016 1:02 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>>
>>> So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side.  If you have a
>>> customer that is in line with the source of the Interference, they're still
>>> hosed right?  The AP still wont' be able to hear them over the noise.
>>>
>>> I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the AP is running
>>> about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1 and 5.7)  I think the source of
>>> the interference is a close by corporate campus that's probably flooded
>>> with 5ghz wifi, and this customer is directly in between the tower and the
>>> campus.  I can only get MCS level 1 on the upstream side with a receive
>>> level of -48. EPMP2000 would have no effect in this scenario, right?
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[Bill Prince]

Whoops. Missed that important detail. A -50 dBm noise floor is pretty 
much a impossible situation.



bp


On 10/28/2016 1:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
a blind AP is a blind AP no matter how you cut it, if the interference 
is coming in from the same direction as the sm, not alot you can do. 
with -50 floor that sector is effectively not there. can you go lower 
with the sector and hope ground clutter will mitigate the campus 
interference to a point you can get a reasonable snr. compared to what 
you have right now hin dropping to a -70 if you can get clutter to -80 
is better,
but if thats the floor, youre better served to get a tight shielded 
directional antenna rather than a sector and do ptp


beamsteering is focusing energy at the subscriber more than anything 
isnt it?


On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Bill Prince > wrote:


If the interference is on the subscriber end, it should affect the
downstream traffic. Interference on the AP side (which you don't
seem to be having) would affect he upstream.

Something else is going on.


bp



On 10/28/2016 1:02 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side.  If
you have a customer that is in line with the source of the
Interference, they're still hosed right?  The AP still wont'
be able to hear them over the noise.

I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the AP
is running about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1 and
5.7)  I think the source of the interference is a close by
corporate campus that's probably flooded with 5ghz wifi, and
this customer is directly in between the tower and the
campus.  I can only get MCS level 1 on the upstream side with
a receive level of -48. EPMP2000 would have no effect in this
scenario, right?





--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

a blind AP is a blind AP no matter how you cut it, if the interference is
coming in from the same direction as the sm, not alot you can do. with -50
floor that sector is effectively not there. can you go lower with the
sector and hope ground clutter will mitigate the campus interference to a
point you can get a reasonable snr. compared to what you have right now hin
dropping to a -70 if you can get clutter to -80 is better,
but if thats the floor, youre better served to get a tight shielded
directional antenna rather than a sector and do ptp

beamsteering is focusing energy at the subscriber more than anything isnt
it?

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> If the interference is on the subscriber end, it should affect the
> downstream traffic. Interference on the AP side (which you don't seem to be
> having) would affect he upstream.
>
> Something else is going on.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 10/28/2016 1:02 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>
>> So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side.  If you have a
>> customer that is in line with the source of the Interference, they're still
>> hosed right?  The AP still wont' be able to hear them over the noise.
>>
>> I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the AP is running
>> about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1 and 5.7)  I think the source of
>> the interference is a close by corporate campus that's probably flooded
>> with 5ghz wifi, and this customer is directly in between the tower and the
>> campus.  I can only get MCS level 1 on the upstream side with a receive
>> level of -48. EPMP2000 would have no effect in this scenario, right?
>>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[Bill Prince]

If the interference is on the subscriber end, it should affect the 
downstream traffic. Interference on the AP side (which you don't seem to 
be having) would affect he upstream.


Something else is going on.


bp


On 10/28/2016 1:02 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side.  If you have 
a customer that is in line with the source of the Interference, 
they're still hosed right?  The AP still wont' be able to hear them 
over the noise.


I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the AP is 
running about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1 and 5.7)  I think 
the source of the interference is a close by corporate campus that's 
probably flooded with 5ghz wifi, and this customer is directly in 
between the tower and the campus.  I can only get MCS level 1 on the 
upstream side with a receive level of -48. EPMP2000 would have no 
effect in this scenario, right?

[AFMUG] Theoretical EPMP2000 Question

[Nate Burke]

So the EPMP2000 with beam steering on the upstream side.  If you have a 
customer that is in line with the source of the Interference, they're 
still hosed right?  The AP still wont' be able to hear them over the noise.


I have a EPMP sector with a single customer on it and the AP is running 
about -50 noise across the entire band (5.1 and 5.7)  I think the source 
of the interference is a close by corporate campus that's probably 
flooded with 5ghz wifi, and this customer is directly in between the 
tower and the campus.  I can only get MCS level 1 on the upstream side 
with a receive level of -48.  EPMP2000 would have no effect in this 
scenario, right?