[android-developers] Re: Android Layouts Are Horrible
Hold on a minute. I really don't care the least bit about underlying code, that is, the XML that's generated by a really good design tool. Saying you should have to learn the XML (in this case) is like saying you have to learn the bytecode that's generated from the java code. Sure, you always need understand the structure, but with good tools, you can _focus_ on the structure and not worry about the details. On Apr 4, 7:01 pm, Robert rcope...@gmail.com wrote: Layout is part of development. Having tools to help with that are aids but should not be used as an excuse not to learn the underlying code. THe designer tools only generate the structures based on the rules programmed into them. You will always have a more detailed level of control by going to the lowest level available. Learn it and it'll make you a better developer and your programs to be more efficient. Using the higher level tools makes you only as efficient at they are. Yes, it takes time and yes you have to learn it but that's what being a real developer is all about. Robert -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Layouts Are Horrible
...with a small difference that XML was designed to be human readable but also for machines, while the bytecode never meant to be human readable. On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 7:19 AM, dirk dhaa...@gmail.com wrote: Hold on a minute. I really don't care the least bit about underlying code, that is, the XML that's generated by a really good design tool. Saying you should have to learn the XML (in this case) is like saying you have to learn the bytecode that's generated from the java code. Sure, you always need understand the structure, but with good tools, you can _focus_ on the structure and not worry about the details. On Apr 4, 7:01 pm, Robert rcope...@gmail.com wrote: Layout is part of development. Having tools to help with that are aids but should not be used as an excuse not to learn the underlying code. THe designer tools only generate the structures based on the rules programmed into them. You will always have a more detailed level of control by going to the lowest level available. Learn it and it'll make you a better developer and your programs to be more efficient. Using the higher level tools makes you only as efficient at they are. Yes, it takes time and yes you have to learn it but that's what being a real developer is all about. Robert -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- Daniel Drozdzewski -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Layouts Are Horrible
I agree with Dirk and others. After using Microsofts development environment, Visual Studio and asp.net for me, there is no reason to code database connections, html tables of data etc., sql update, delete and insert commands. If you know them that is great and it is helpful. But by having a full mature visual development environment you can concentrate on the application and not the code, unless necessary. I have developed a fully functional asp.net application with 53 database driven pages with lists and forms with full insert update and delete capabilities, full security with logins, retrieve passwords, create new users all in 2 weeks. No code! Later we added business rules and error trapping but what a head start. If needed then you dig into code but use the built in mature tools to the fullest. I had a problem once and got answers of 150 lines of code. The solution was 1 line of code. We do not need to reinvent the wheel on every application. Thirty years ago we had database application software that didn't require you to code database connections, insert, deletes and update statements, button clicks etc. I hope we have progressed farther that that. Eclipse is the best visual environment for Android code but far from Microsofts Visual Studio development environment. Ever seen app_inventor, visual environment from Google? Interesting. I wonder if it will ever be released? It may be too visual and maybe no as powerful, butinteresting none the less. On Apr 5, 1:19 am, dirk dhaa...@gmail.com wrote: Hold on a minute. I really don't care the least bit about underlying code, that is, the XML that's generated by a really good design tool. Saying you should have to learn the XML (in this case) is like saying you have to learn the bytecode that's generated from the java code. Sure, you always need understand the structure, but with good tools, you can _focus_ on the structure and not worry about the details. On Apr 4, 7:01 pm, Robert rcope...@gmail.com wrote: Layout is part of development. Having tools to help with that are aids but should not be used as an excuse not to learn the underlying code. THe designer tools only generate the structures based on the rules programmed into them. You will always have a more detailed level of control by going to the lowest level available. Learn it and it'll make you a better developer and your programs to be more efficient. Using the higher level tools makes you only as efficient at they are. Yes, it takes time and yes you have to learn it but that's what being a real developer is all about. Robert- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Layouts Are Horrible
I lol'd... On Apr 5, 8:25 am, Craigbtx craig...@austin.rr.com wrote: I agree with Dirk and others. After using Microsofts development environment, Visual Studio and asp.net for me, there is no reason to code database connections, html tables of data etc., sql update, delete and insert commands. If you know them that is great and it is helpful. But by having a full mature visual development environment you can concentrate on the application and not the code, unless necessary. I have developed a fully functional asp.net application with 53 database driven pages with lists and forms with full insert update and delete capabilities, full security with logins, retrieve passwords, create new users all in 2 weeks. No code! Later we added business rules and error trapping but what a head start. If needed then you dig into code but use the built in mature tools to the fullest. I had a problem once and got answers of 150 lines of code. The solution was 1 line of code. We do not need to reinvent the wheel on every application. Thirty years ago we had database application software that didn't require you to code database connections, insert, deletes and update statements, button clicks etc. I hope we have progressed farther that that. Eclipse is the best visual environment for Android code but far from Microsofts Visual Studio development environment. Ever seen app_inventor, visual environment from Google? Interesting. I wonder if it will ever be released? It may be too visual and maybe no as powerful, butinteresting none the less. On Apr 5, 1:19 am, dirk dhaa...@gmail.com wrote: Hold on a minute. I really don't care the least bit about underlying code, that is, the XML that's generated by a really good design tool. Saying you should have to learn the XML (in this case) is like saying you have to learn the bytecode that's generated from the java code. Sure, you always need understand the structure, but with good tools, you can _focus_ on the structure and not worry about the details. On Apr 4, 7:01 pm, Robert rcope...@gmail.com wrote: Layout is part of development. Having tools to help with that are aids but should not be used as an excuse not to learn the underlying code. THe designer tools only generate the structures based on the rules programmed into them. You will always have a more detailed level of control by going to the lowest level available. Learn it and it'll make you a better developer and your programs to be more efficient. Using the higher level tools makes you only as efficient at they are. Yes, it takes time and yes you have to learn it but that's what being a real developer is all about. Robert- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Layouts Are Horrible
I lol'd... +1 -- Chris Stewart http://chriswstewart.com On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 11:30 AM, nation-x shawn.payme...@gmail.com wrote: I lol'd... On Apr 5, 8:25 am, Craigbtx craig...@austin.rr.com wrote: I agree with Dirk and others. After using Microsofts development environment, Visual Studio and asp.net for me, there is no reason to code database connections, html tables of data etc., sql update, delete and insert commands. If you know them that is great and it is helpful. But by having a full mature visual development environment you can concentrate on the application and not the code, unless necessary. I have developed a fully functional asp.net application with 53 database driven pages with lists and forms with full insert update and delete capabilities, full security with logins, retrieve passwords, create new users all in 2 weeks. No code! Later we added business rules and error trapping but what a head start. If needed then you dig into code but use the built in mature tools to the fullest. I had a problem once and got answers of 150 lines of code. The solution was 1 line of code. We do not need to reinvent the wheel on every application. Thirty years ago we had database application software that didn't require you to code database connections, insert, deletes and update statements, button clicks etc. I hope we have progressed farther that that. Eclipse is the best visual environment for Android code but far from Microsofts Visual Studio development environment. Ever seen app_inventor, visual environment from Google? Interesting. I wonder if it will ever be released? It may be too visual and maybe no as powerful, butinteresting none the less. On Apr 5, 1:19 am, dirk dhaa...@gmail.com wrote: Hold on a minute. I really don't care the least bit about underlying code, that is, the XML that's generated by a really good design tool. Saying you should have to learn the XML (in this case) is like saying you have to learn the bytecode that's generated from the java code. Sure, you always need understand the structure, but with good tools, you can _focus_ on the structure and not worry about the details. On Apr 4, 7:01 pm, Robert rcope...@gmail.com wrote: Layout is part of development. Having tools to help with that are aids but should not be used as an excuse not to learn the underlying code. THe designer tools only generate the structures based on the rules programmed into them. You will always have a more detailed level of control by going to the lowest level available. Learn it and it'll make you a better developer and your programs to be more efficient. Using the higher level tools makes you only as efficient at they are. Yes, it takes time and yes you have to learn it but that's what being a real developer is all about. Robert- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Layouts Are Horrible
At the end of the day, it comes down to an allocation of resources on Google's part. I'd much rather have them spending time innovating Android, it's APIs, the Android Market, and so forth, rather than building a better GUI editor because people don't want to put in the time to learn how to do it. There are beautiful user experiences on the Android platform -- so it's a matter of putting away the hold my hand mentality of Visual Studio and learning how it's done. Would I like a better editor? Of course. But not at the expense, or opportunity cost, of innovating in more compelling areas of Android. -- Chris Stewart http://chriswstewart.com On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Chris Stewart cstewart...@gmail.comwrote: I lol'd... +1 -- Chris Stewart http://chriswstewart.com On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 11:30 AM, nation-x shawn.payme...@gmail.comwrote: I lol'd... On Apr 5, 8:25 am, Craigbtx craig...@austin.rr.com wrote: I agree with Dirk and others. After using Microsofts development environment, Visual Studio and asp.net for me, there is no reason to code database connections, html tables of data etc., sql update, delete and insert commands. If you know them that is great and it is helpful. But by having a full mature visual development environment you can concentrate on the application and not the code, unless necessary. I have developed a fully functional asp.net application with 53 database driven pages with lists and forms with full insert update and delete capabilities, full security with logins, retrieve passwords, create new users all in 2 weeks. No code! Later we added business rules and error trapping but what a head start. If needed then you dig into code but use the built in mature tools to the fullest. I had a problem once and got answers of 150 lines of code. The solution was 1 line of code. We do not need to reinvent the wheel on every application. Thirty years ago we had database application software that didn't require you to code database connections, insert, deletes and update statements, button clicks etc. I hope we have progressed farther that that. Eclipse is the best visual environment for Android code but far from Microsofts Visual Studio development environment. Ever seen app_inventor, visual environment from Google? Interesting. I wonder if it will ever be released? It may be too visual and maybe no as powerful, butinteresting none the less. On Apr 5, 1:19 am, dirk dhaa...@gmail.com wrote: Hold on a minute. I really don't care the least bit about underlying code, that is, the XML that's generated by a really good design tool. Saying you should have to learn the XML (in this case) is like saying you have to learn the bytecode that's generated from the java code. Sure, you always need understand the structure, but with good tools, you can _focus_ on the structure and not worry about the details. On Apr 4, 7:01 pm, Robert rcope...@gmail.com wrote: Layout is part of development. Having tools to help with that are aids but should not be used as an excuse not to learn the underlying code. THe designer tools only generate the structures based on the rules programmed into them. You will always have a more detailed level of control by going to the lowest level available. Learn it and it'll make you a better developer and your programs to be more efficient. Using the higher level tools makes you only as efficient at they are. Yes, it takes time and yes you have to learn it but that's what being a real developer is all about. Robert- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Layouts Are Horrible
Comparing ADT to Visual Studio is a little ridiculous. Using a .Net language like C# in VS to design a GUI is a thing of beauty, but it's gotten to its current point of sophistication after *a lot* of time, money, and engineering effort. This is one of Microsoft's premier products and they've been perfecting it for a long time and do so because it makes them a lot of money. Considering how long it's been around and the limited resources (I assume, I don't know for sure) that are available for ADT, it's pretty damn good. Honestly, this thread kind of reminds me of the type of whiny users who would leave 1-star ratings for an image editor app because it's not as good as PhotoShop. Most of us have gotten these kinds of reviews and it's freaking annoying. Complaining and comparing the tool to VS without even clarifying what the issues are doesn't help anyone. Leave some useful, constructive criticism for the developers. Like I said before, they're on this list and are very responsive. Also, isn't it open-source? So if it's not good enough for you ... well, um ... quit yer bitchin' and contribute to making it as it good as you think it should be, eh? :-) - TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Layouts Are Horrible
I agree with the sentiment of the post.There is definitely a lot of scope for improvment in layouts. If layout designing was on par with other technologies it would make life easy for a lot of developers. It is not just a matter of learning xml. I know xml fully well, and haven't used the gui tool yet. I only create layouts with handwritten xml. But when you encounter two attributes like gravity and layout_gravity you scratch your head and question why the names are not more intuitive (for something that sound so close). On Apr 5, 9:36 am, TreKing treking...@gmail.com wrote: Comparing ADT to Visual Studio is a little ridiculous. Using a .Net language like C# in VS to design a GUI is a thing of beauty, but it's gotten to its current point of sophistication after *a lot* of time, money, and engineering effort. This is one of Microsoft's premier products and they've been perfecting it for a long time and do so because it makes them a lot of money. Considering how long it's been around and the limited resources (I assume, I don't know for sure) that are available for ADT, it's pretty damn good. Honestly, this thread kind of reminds me of the type of whiny users who would leave 1-star ratings for an image editor app because it's not as good as PhotoShop. Most of us have gotten these kinds of reviews and it's freaking annoying. Complaining and comparing the tool to VS without even clarifying what the issues are doesn't help anyone. Leave some useful, constructive criticism for the developers. Like I said before, they're on this list and are very responsive. Also, isn't it open-source? So if it's not good enough for you ... well, um ... quit yer bitchin' and contribute to making it as it good as you think it should be, eh? :-) --- -- TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Layouts Are Horrible
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Leo allway...@gmail.com wrote: It is not just a matter of learning xml. I know xml fully well, and haven't used the gui tool yet. I only create layouts with handwritten xml. But when you encounter two attributes like gravity and layout_gravity you scratch your head and question why the names are not more intuitive (for something that sound so close). This isn't really related to UI builder tools or the IDE, it is just an aspect of the platform APIs. By convention, attributes with a layout_ prefix are parsed by the parent layout manager. So layout_gravity applies to the view's layout manager if it supports the gravity attribute, controlling how the layout of it happens. gravity is just a regular attribute for the view, controlling its internal behavior; for example it tells TextView how to position the text inside itself. -- Dianne Hackborn Android framework engineer hack...@android.com Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails. All such questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and answer them. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Layouts Are Horrible
Having developed for Android since the launch of the G1, and having spent the last 10-11 months writing Android apps full-time, the layouts aren't actually that bad. Actually, RelativeLayout isn't that bad. I've never had a layout simple enough for LinearLayout or FrameLayout, and having spent a decent amount of time in HTML-land, just the name TableLayout gives me the willies. The API itself still needs polishing. Bugs like TextView not being able to ellipsize anything other than 2 lines, and cutting descenders off if you mess with the line height are two glaring examples of things that make Android look beta-ish, but neither one of those have anything to do with the concept of a layout. The tools are tolerable, but I wish there was a good way of pulling them out of Eclipse. (Which would probably be difficult, since a layout editor not only needs to know where all the project's bitmaps are, but also has to deal with custom View subclasses and whatnot, which implies a compiler and virtual machine at the very least) Truthfully, without the concept of a layout, Android would be much more of a pain to code for, since differing screen sizes and aspect ratios would introduce all sorts of complications to even the simplest UI. HTML and Android's layouts exist as they do because of the constraints of not knowing exactly what kind of container you're going to have to fit your UI into. It means you'll have to wrap your head around exactly how they abstract things away, but they exist as they do for a good reason. On Apr 5, 2:07 pm, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Leo allway...@gmail.com wrote: It is not just a matter of learning xml. I know xml fully well, and haven't used the gui tool yet. I only create layouts with handwritten xml. But when you encounter two attributes like gravity and layout_gravity you scratch your head and question why the names are not more intuitive (for something that sound so close). This isn't really related to UI builder tools or the IDE, it is just an aspect of the platform APIs. By convention, attributes with a layout_ prefix are parsed by the parent layout manager. So layout_gravity applies to the view's layout manager if it supports the gravity attribute, controlling how the layout of it happens. gravity is just a regular attribute for the view, controlling its internal behavior; for example it tells TextView how to position the text inside itself. -- Dianne Hackborn Android framework engineer hack...@android.com Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails. All such questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and answer them. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Layouts Are Horrible
Our layout editors in Eclipse have been somewhat low priority for a long time but we are now focusing some effort on it. You may have seen that ADT 10 includes a lot of new features and we have more coming for the next versions. We are working on: - better interactivity in the editor itself. - better integration into Eclipse (*much* better autocompletion in the XML editor, quick assist, refactoring, go to declaration) - better rendering (3.0 is a huge step in the right direction already, but we're adding some improvements and back porting it to earlier versions) - new features to help you design layouts (extract as include refactoring, show included in, data in listviews, etc...) If you want to follow our progress you can look at http://tools.android.com/recent As someone said, this is open source, and worked on directly in the open (you can go to http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/sdk.git;a=summary to see the latest changes or to https://review.source.android.com//#q,status:open+project:platform/sdk,n,z to see pending changes), and while we aren't forcing (or expecting) anyone to contribute, if you feel passionate about tools and want to contribute, please let us know (see http://tools.android.com/feedback) thanks, Xav -- Xavier Ducrohet Android SDK Tech Lead Google Inc. http://developer.android.com | http://tools.android.com Please do not send me questions directly. Thanks! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Layouts Are Horrible
Is it possible to address the lack of examples in samples section on layouts in future releases? I spent two days trying to figure how to put 4 large images into a 2x2 grid for option selection in my first app that I am working on. Granted my UI experience is next to NIL but such things should be a breeze if there are illustrative examples in the SDK. It would be great to see 20-40 layout examples with images and animation etc illustrating various aspects of the layouts. The other parts of the online android framework documentation is vast and very helpful, but layout attributes are like hit or miss for non UI (basically java only) developers like me. Thanks. On Apr 5, 3:20 pm, Xavier Ducrohet x...@android.com wrote: Our layout editors in Eclipse have been somewhat low priority for a long time but we are now focusing some effort on it. You may have seen that ADT 10 includes a lot of new features and we have more coming for the next versions. We are working on: - better interactivity in the editor itself. - better integration into Eclipse (*much* better autocompletion in the XML editor, quick assist, refactoring, go to declaration) - better rendering (3.0 is a huge step in the right direction already, but we're adding some improvements and back porting it to earlier versions) - new features to help you designlayouts(extract as include refactoring, show included in, data in listviews, etc...) If you want to follow our progress you can look athttp://tools.android.com/recent As someone said, this is open source, and worked on directly in the open (you can go tohttp://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/sdk.git;a=summaryto see the latest changes or tohttps://review.source.android.com//#q,status:open+project:platform/sd... to see pending changes), and while we aren't forcing (or expecting) anyone to contribute, if you feel passionate about tools and want to contribute, please let us know (seehttp://tools.android.com/feedback) thanks, Xav -- Xavier DucrohetAndroidSDK Tech Lead Google Inc.http://developer.android.com|http://tools.android.com Please do not send me questions directly. Thanks! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Layouts Are Horrible
I'm sure this is possible. We would also like have templates in Eclipse so that you can create a new layout with some pre-built items arranged in different ways. We know that sometimes it's not easy to make the layouts do what you want and we are working on making this easier. Xav On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Leo allway...@gmail.com wrote: Is it possible to address the lack of examples in samples section on layouts in future releases? I spent two days trying to figure how to put 4 large images into a 2x2 grid for option selection in my first app that I am working on. Granted my UI experience is next to NIL but such things should be a breeze if there are illustrative examples in the SDK. It would be great to see 20-40 layout examples with images and animation etc illustrating various aspects of the layouts. The other parts of the online android framework documentation is vast and very helpful, but layout attributes are like hit or miss for non UI (basically java only) developers like me. Thanks. On Apr 5, 3:20 pm, Xavier Ducrohet x...@android.com wrote: Our layout editors in Eclipse have been somewhat low priority for a long time but we are now focusing some effort on it. You may have seen that ADT 10 includes a lot of new features and we have more coming for the next versions. We are working on: - better interactivity in the editor itself. - better integration into Eclipse (*much* better autocompletion in the XML editor, quick assist, refactoring, go to declaration) - better rendering (3.0 is a huge step in the right direction already, but we're adding some improvements and back porting it to earlier versions) - new features to help you designlayouts(extract as include refactoring, show included in, data in listviews, etc...) If you want to follow our progress you can look athttp://tools.android.com/recent As someone said, this is open source, and worked on directly in the open (you can go tohttp://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/sdk.git;a=summaryto see the latest changes or tohttps://review.source.android.com//#q,status:open+project:platform/sd... to see pending changes), and while we aren't forcing (or expecting) anyone to contribute, if you feel passionate about tools and want to contribute, please let us know (seehttp://tools.android.com/feedback) thanks, Xav -- Xavier DucrohetAndroidSDK Tech Lead Google Inc.http://developer.android.com|http://tools.android.com Please do not send me questions directly. Thanks! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- Xavier Ducrohet Android SDK Tech Lead Google Inc. http://developer.android.com | http://tools.android.com Please do not send me questions directly. Thanks! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Layouts Are Horrible
Maybe you should try a ListView instead. On Apr 4, 1:01 am, grndvl1 grnd...@gmail.com wrote: Why is it I spend more time dealing with the layout of items than the actual coding of the program? The Eclipse Graphical Layout tool really blows as it has a ton of errors and can't handle simple things like italic text in textview, scrollviews... The layout parameters seem to be a hodge-podge of stuff thrown in there as an after thought, seems it wasn't really planned out. They should have taken a lesson from Java's crappy Gridbag layout and used or at least analyzed how Miglayout fixed many issues with Java GUI's. I won't use any other layout manager other than Miglayout. Anyway just venting here as I spent the last 1hr fixing something that should be so simple in a Scrollview/TableLayout/TableRow with ImageView and TextView in each row. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Layouts Are Horrible
I've actually been very happy with the progress Google has made to the layout tools. It took a little while to get used to, but now I'm finding it very easy to arrange and rearrange design elements. Best, Stephen On Apr 3, 10:01 pm, grndvl1 grnd...@gmail.com wrote: Why is it I spend more time dealing with the layout of items than the actual coding of the program? The Eclipse Graphical Layout tool really blows as it has a ton of errors and can't handle simple things like italic text in textview, scrollviews... The layout parameters seem to be a hodge-podge of stuff thrown in there as an after thought, seems it wasn't really planned out. They should have taken a lesson from Java's crappy Gridbag layout and used or at least analyzed how Miglayout fixed many issues with Java GUI's. I won't use any other layout manager other than Miglayout. Anyway just venting here as I spent the last 1hr fixing something that should be so simple in a Scrollview/TableLayout/TableRow with ImageView and TextView in each row. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Layouts Are Horrible
Coming from the Windows world where the tools are really top notch, I have to agree with the sentiment (if not the presentation) of grndvl1 point. Really there should be no need to have to know the XML if you have a good designer tool. That tool is improving for sure, but it still has a long way to go. On Apr 3, 10:01 pm, grndvl1 grnd...@gmail.com wrote: Why is it I spend more time dealing with the layout of items than the actual coding of the program? The Eclipse Graphical Layout tool really blows as it has a ton of errors and can't handle simple things like italic text in textview, scrollviews... The layout parameters seem to be a hodge-podge of stuff thrown in there as an after thought, seems it wasn't really planned out. They should have taken a lesson from Java's crappy Gridbag layout and used or at least analyzed how Miglayout fixed many issues with Java GUI's. I won't use any other layout manager other than Miglayout. Anyway just venting here as I spent the last 1hr fixing something that should be so simple in a Scrollview/TableLayout/TableRow with ImageView and TextView in each row. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: Android Layouts Are Horrible
Layout is part of development. Having tools to help with that are aids but should not be used as an excuse not to learn the underlying code. THe designer tools only generate the structures based on the rules programmed into them. You will always have a more detailed level of control by going to the lowest level available. Learn it and it'll make you a better developer and your programs to be more efficient. Using the higher level tools makes you only as efficient at they are. Yes, it takes time and yes you have to learn it but that's what being a real developer is all about. Robert -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
