[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
The impatience revealed by your puerile, angry language shows that you have not learned the most important lessons your allegedly longer experience could have taught you. Small wonder, then, that you show such limited understanding of UX principles. On Sep 17, 7:25 pm, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: With all due respect -- hell toss respect out the window -- you don't know sith about what you're talking about. I've been in this industry for 40 years, and I've seen all sorts of good and bad UI designs -- many of the worst directly attributable to designers inventing and enforcing rules about what was good and bad, against the explicit advice of others who, from experience and experiment, knew what worked and what didn't. The OP has explained why he wants to reverse the action of the control, and it's a perfectly valid reason, especially given that he's experimenting -- he realizes that what he's planning to try may not work well, but even in the failure of it he may learn some things about how to make a better UI. Granted in several ways it is a square peg into a round hole, but consider that, just maybe, it's the hole that's wrongly shaped, not the peg. The biggest thing that scares me about Android, from the standpoint of investing in it as a platform for future applications, is that already too many features of it are apparently sacred and immutable, even as they clearly demonstrate a poor fit to reality. I'm quite afraid that Android will end up even more hide-bound than iPhone due to this belief on the part of its designers that it's too perfect to permit further modification. On Sep 17, 9:07 pm, Indicator Veritatis mej1...@yahoo.com wrote: I have worked with numerous UI and UX experts over the years, and not once have I ever heard any of them say anything as rash and glib as whatever works. Not even with your caveat. Nor is your glib assertion consistent with my own experience of good and bad UI design over the years. Besides: your caveat qualified it with respect for convention -- which is exactly what the OP is tossing out the window. And no, the rights you so graciously bestow on the OP do not exist -- except perhaps in the fanciful imaginations of people on their own high horses. Since he asked such a bad question, he is not going to like the answers he gets. Tough luck. Next time, he should readhttp://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.htmlandlearn from his mistake. Finally, your example of a simulated scroll wheel does not illustrate the point you think it does. Of course the presence of the wheel changed the user's perception of which way it should be (because of scroll buttons on mice): but by insisting on putting a scroll wheel in there in the first place, no matter how 'good' the reason, you introduced a contradiction into the UI paradigm of the application. If you had studied it a little closer, you would likely have noticed that as users try to make more and more use of the application, a significant plurality of them would have trouble remembering when up is up and when up is down. IOW, given that you had to introduce the wheel, allowing it to go against the grain in that one place may have worked, but only at a cost, and it is quite unconvincing that the wheel really had to be there, or is worth that cost. But I can't say a lot about your old situation, since I know only what you so briefly described. What I CAN say is that it really does go against the grain in Android, and in a way that can only detract from the UX. And that if the OHA or Google had the kind of strict UI guidelines that made Apple's OS so user-friendly even from the early days, it would NOT be allowed. You are making me wish for the straight-jackets from the Developmental Ministry in the Republic of Steve Jobs;) On Sep 17, 10:04 am, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In this particular context there was a simulated scroll wheel superimposed over the edge of the scroll list (for reasons having to do with the dynamics of the controls). For some reason this changed the user's perception of the control completely. Basically, the user saw the wheel as moving the highlight bar up/down vs moving the list up/down. (If you think about it, the scroll wheel on a mouse operates the same way.) I am sure there are other situations where similar perceptual issues could arise, such as when scrolling some sort of a map. And the OP certainly has a right (and perhaps legal obligation) to not disclose the particulars of his application, in addition to simply not wanting to hear even more of You shouldn't be doing it that way. In programming there are some definite shoulds and shouldn'ts, but in UI design far fewer -- it's basically whatever works, combined with a modest respect for convention/precedence. On Sep 17, 11:48 am, TreKing treking...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
Impatience? I'm not one of those who jumped on the guy without trying to understand what he wanted, or why. Angry? I'm not one of those who told him he was (in so many words) an idiot. On Sep 18, 1:54 am, Indicator Veritatis mej1...@yahoo.com wrote: The impatience revealed by your puerile, angry language shows that you have not learned the most important lessons your allegedly longer experience could have taught you. Small wonder, then, that you show such limited understanding of UX principles. On Sep 17, 7:25 pm, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: With all due respect -- hell toss respect out the window -- you don't know sith about what you're talking about. I've been in this industry for 40 years, and I've seen all sorts of good and bad UI designs -- many of the worst directly attributable to designers inventing and enforcing rules about what was good and bad, against the explicit advice of others who, from experience and experiment, knew what worked and what didn't. The OP has explained why he wants to reverse the action of the control, and it's a perfectly valid reason, especially given that he's experimenting -- he realizes that what he's planning to try may not work well, but even in the failure of it he may learn some things about how to make a better UI. Granted in several ways it is a square peg into a round hole, but consider that, just maybe, it's the hole that's wrongly shaped, not the peg. The biggest thing that scares me about Android, from the standpoint of investing in it as a platform for future applications, is that already too many features of it are apparently sacred and immutable, even as they clearly demonstrate a poor fit to reality. I'm quite afraid that Android will end up even more hide-bound than iPhone due to this belief on the part of its designers that it's too perfect to permit further modification. On Sep 17, 9:07 pm, Indicator Veritatis mej1...@yahoo.com wrote: I have worked with numerous UI and UX experts over the years, and not once have I ever heard any of them say anything as rash and glib as whatever works. Not even with your caveat. Nor is your glib assertion consistent with my own experience of good and bad UI design over the years. Besides: your caveat qualified it with respect for convention -- which is exactly what the OP is tossing out the window. And no, the rights you so graciously bestow on the OP do not exist -- except perhaps in the fanciful imaginations of people on their own high horses. Since he asked such a bad question, he is not going to like the answers he gets. Tough luck. Next time, he should readhttp://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.htmlandlearnfrom his mistake. Finally, your example of a simulated scroll wheel does not illustrate the point you think it does. Of course the presence of the wheel changed the user's perception of which way it should be (because of scroll buttons on mice): but by insisting on putting a scroll wheel in there in the first place, no matter how 'good' the reason, you introduced a contradiction into the UI paradigm of the application. If you had studied it a little closer, you would likely have noticed that as users try to make more and more use of the application, a significant plurality of them would have trouble remembering when up is up and when up is down. IOW, given that you had to introduce the wheel, allowing it to go against the grain in that one place may have worked, but only at a cost, and it is quite unconvincing that the wheel really had to be there, or is worth that cost. But I can't say a lot about your old situation, since I know only what you so briefly described. What I CAN say is that it really does go against the grain in Android, and in a way that can only detract from the UX. And that if the OHA or Google had the kind of strict UI guidelines that made Apple's OS so user-friendly even from the early days, it would NOT be allowed. You are making me wish for the straight-jackets from the Developmental Ministry in the Republic of Steve Jobs;) On Sep 17, 10:04 am, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In this particular context there was a simulated scroll wheel superimposed over the edge of the scroll list (for reasons having to do with the dynamics of the controls). For some reason this changed the user's perception of the control completely. Basically, the user saw the wheel as moving the highlight bar up/down vs moving the list up/down. (If you think about it, the scroll wheel on a mouse operates the same way.) I am sure there are other situations where similar perceptual issues could arise, such as when scrolling some sort of a map. And the OP certainly has a right (and perhaps legal obligation) to not disclose the particulars of his application, in addition to simply not wanting
Re: [android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
Just wanted to say that it might be a bad design decision for a real app, but have you ever considered that he might want to do it as a joke app for his friends? I do that kind of stuff all the time just for the fun of it. So... why jump all over the guy? ... at least until you know what he really wants to do. Sincerely, Brad Gies --- Bistro Bot - Bistro Blurb http://bgies.com http://bistroblurb.com http://ihottonight.com http://forcethetruth.com --- Everything in moderation, including abstinence Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed. It is the only thing that ever has - Margaret Mead On 17/09/2010 11:54 PM, Indicator Veritatis wrote: The impatience revealed by your puerile, angry language shows that you have not learned the most important lessons your allegedly longer experience could have taught you. Small wonder, then, that you show such limited understanding of UX principles. On Sep 17, 7:25 pm, DanHdanhi...@ieee.org wrote: With all due respect -- hell toss respect out the window -- you don't know sith about what you're talking about. I've been in this industry for 40 years, and I've seen all sorts of good and bad UI designs -- many of the worst directly attributable to designers inventing and enforcing rules about what was good and bad, against the explicit advice of others who, from experience and experiment, knew what worked and what didn't. The OP has explained why he wants to reverse the action of the control, and it's a perfectly valid reason, especially given that he's experimenting -- he realizes that what he's planning to try may not work well, but even in the failure of it he may learn some things about how to make a better UI. Granted in several ways it is a square peg into a round hole, but consider that, just maybe, it's the hole that's wrongly shaped, not the peg. The biggest thing that scares me about Android, from the standpoint of investing in it as a platform for future applications, is that already too many features of it are apparently sacred and immutable, even as they clearly demonstrate a poor fit to reality. I'm quite afraid that Android will end up even more hide-bound than iPhone due to this belief on the part of its designers that it's too perfect to permit further modification. On Sep 17, 9:07 pm, Indicator Veritatismej1...@yahoo.com wrote: I have worked with numerous UI and UX experts over the years, and not once have I ever heard any of them say anything as rash and glib as whatever works. Not even with your caveat. Nor is your glib assertion consistent with my own experience of good and bad UI design over the years. Besides: your caveat qualified it with respect for convention -- which is exactly what the OP is tossing out the window. And no, the rights you so graciously bestow on the OP do not exist -- except perhaps in the fanciful imaginations of people on their own high horses. Since he asked such a bad question, he is not going to like the answers he gets. Tough luck. Next time, he should readhttp://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.htmlandlearn from his mistake. Finally, your example of a simulated scroll wheel does not illustrate the point you think it does. Of course the presence of the wheel changed the user's perception of which way it should be (because of scroll buttons on mice): but by insisting on putting a scroll wheel in there in the first place, no matter how 'good' the reason, you introduced a contradiction into the UI paradigm of the application. If you had studied it a little closer, you would likely have noticed that as users try to make more and more use of the application, a significant plurality of them would have trouble remembering when up is up and when up is down. IOW, given that you had to introduce the wheel, allowing it to go against the grain in that one place may have worked, but only at a cost, and it is quite unconvincing that the wheel really had to be there, or is worth that cost. But I can't say a lot about your old situation, since I know only what you so briefly described. What I CAN say is that it really does go against the grain in Android, and in a way that can only detract from the UX. And that if the OHA or Google had the kind of strict UI guidelines that made Apple's OS so user-friendly even from the early days, it would NOT be allowed. You are making me wish for the straight-jackets from the Developmental Ministry in the Republic of Steve Jobs;) On Sep 17, 10:04 am, DanHdanhi...@ieee.org wrote: In this particular context there was a simulated scroll wheel superimposed over the edge of the scroll list (for reasons having to do with the dynamics of the controls). For some reason this changed the user's perception of the control completely. Basically, the user saw the wheel as moving the highlight bar
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
WHY??? It's a touch phone, and not your desktop browser. I have seen a few phones though, which have this weird behaviour, but its odd. -Kumar Bibek http://techdroid.kbeanie.com On Sep 17, 7:07 am, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: I have been trying now for a few hours to reverse the scrolling of behavior of the ListView. Essentially when scrolling down with my finger I want the list to scroll up! :) Any tips? Thanks! -Moto -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
The most important tip anyone can give you is GIVE UP! It is a bad idea, since it would put your pseudo-ListView at odds with the entire rest of the Android UI. On Sep 16, 7:07 pm, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: I have been trying now for a few hours to reverse the scrolling of behavior of the ListView. Essentially when scrolling down with my finger I want the list to scroll up! :) Any tips? Thanks! -Moto -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
Guys, I appreciate your concern but come on, really? You have no idea what I'm trying to do here. This behavior is not intended for regular phone usage. I'm experimenting with different behaviors. I really apreciate if you would help me out and not jump into conclussions :) Thanks! -Moto On Sep 17, 5:08 am, Indicator Veritatis mej1...@yahoo.com wrote: The most important tip anyone can give you is GIVE UP! It is a bad idea, since it would put your pseudo-ListView at odds with the entire rest of the Android UI. On Sep 16, 7:07 pm, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: I have been trying now for a few hours to reverse the scrolling of behavior of the ListView. Essentially when scrolling down with my finger I want the list to scroll up! :) Any tips? Thanks! -Moto -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
Any feature which is user friendly should be there in any device, whether its desktop or mobile that shouldn't matter. Hence just comment if the feature requested by Moto is user friendly or not. If the answer is yes, then that should be there, how weired someone feels. If the answer is no, then just mention your reasons for saying why its not user friendly. thats it. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: Guys, I appreciate your concern but come on, really? You have no idea what I'm trying to do here. This behavior is not intended for regular phone usage. I'm experimenting with different behaviors. I really apreciate if you would help me out and not jump into conclussions :) Thanks! -Moto On Sep 17, 5:08 am, Indicator Veritatis mej1...@yahoo.com wrote: The most important tip anyone can give you is GIVE UP! It is a bad idea, since it would put your pseudo-ListView at odds with the entire rest of the Android UI. On Sep 16, 7:07 pm, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: I have been trying now for a few hours to reverse the scrolling of behavior of the ListView. Essentially when scrolling down with my finger I want the list to scroll up! :) Any tips? Thanks! -Moto -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
It's not the way a touch phone user would expect the scrolling to happen. So, as far as I am concerned, it's not user friendly. -Kumar Bibek http://techdroid.kbeanie.com On Sep 17, 4:39 pm, amjath sharief amjathsharief.techsa...@gmail.com wrote: Any feature which is user friendly should be there in any device, whether its desktop or mobile that shouldn't matter. Hence just comment if the feature requested by Moto is user friendly or not. If the answer is yes, then that should be there, how weired someone feels. If the answer is no, then just mention your reasons for saying why its not user friendly. thats it. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: Guys, I appreciate your concern but come on, really? You have no idea what I'm trying to do here. This behavior is not intended for regular phone usage. I'm experimenting with different behaviors. I really apreciate if you would help me out and not jump into conclussions :) Thanks! -Moto On Sep 17, 5:08 am, Indicator Veritatis mej1...@yahoo.com wrote: The most important tip anyone can give you is GIVE UP! It is a bad idea, since it would put your pseudo-ListView at odds with the entire rest of the Android UI. On Sep 16, 7:07 pm, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: I have been trying now for a few hours to reverse the scrolling of behavior of the ListView. Essentially when scrolling down with my finger I want the list to scroll up! :) Any tips? Thanks! -Moto -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
Guys, I appreciate your concern but come on, really? You have no idea what I'm trying to do here. This behavior is not intended for regular phone usage. I'm experimenting with different behaviors. I really apreciate if you would help me out and not jump into conclussions :) If you really want to achieve this, there is not shortcut. Implement your own Touch listener and do it. It's possible, sure. -Kumar Bibek http://techdroid.kbeanie.com On Sep 17, 4:39 pm, amjath sharief amjathsharief.techsa...@gmail.com wrote: Any feature which is user friendly should be there in any device, whether its desktop or mobile that shouldn't matter. Hence just comment if the feature requested by Moto is user friendly or not. If the answer is yes, then that should be there, how weired someone feels. If the answer is no, then just mention your reasons for saying why its not user friendly. thats it. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: Guys, I appreciate your concern but come on, really? You have no idea what I'm trying to do here. This behavior is not intended for regular phone usage. I'm experimenting with different behaviors. I really apreciate if you would help me out and not jump into conclussions :) Thanks! -Moto On Sep 17, 5:08 am, Indicator Veritatis mej1...@yahoo.com wrote: The most important tip anyone can give you is GIVE UP! It is a bad idea, since it would put your pseudo-ListView at odds with the entire rest of the Android UI. On Sep 16, 7:07 pm, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: I have been trying now for a few hours to reverse the scrolling of behavior of the ListView. Essentially when scrolling down with my finger I want the list to scroll up! :) Any tips? Thanks! -Moto -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
I really don't care if it's user friendly or not! Can you just give up that discussion? I asked a questions if anyone else had done this or had some pointers to try to do this. Its none of your business how I would like to use this feature. And just to make you feel better you can rest assure it will not end up being used were users would expect a listview to behave like a list view! :) So please let's not argue about how user friendly the concept is or is not... I just need tips on how to achieve this... Thanks, -Moto On Sep 17, 7:49 am, Kumar Bibek coomar@gmail.com wrote: It's not the way a touch phone user would expect the scrolling to happen. So, as far as I am concerned, it's not user friendly. -Kumar Bibekhttp://techdroid.kbeanie.com On Sep 17, 4:39 pm, amjath sharief amjathsharief.techsa...@gmail.com wrote: Any feature which is user friendly should be there in any device, whether its desktop or mobile that shouldn't matter. Hence just comment if the feature requested by Moto is user friendly or not. If the answer is yes, then that should be there, how weired someone feels. If the answer is no, then just mention your reasons for saying why its not user friendly. thats it. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: Guys, I appreciate your concern but come on, really? You have no idea what I'm trying to do here. This behavior is not intended for regular phone usage. I'm experimenting with different behaviors. I really apreciate if you would help me out and not jump into conclussions :) Thanks! -Moto On Sep 17, 5:08 am, Indicator Veritatis mej1...@yahoo.com wrote: The most important tip anyone can give you is GIVE UP! It is a bad idea, since it would put your pseudo-ListView at odds with the entire rest of the Android UI. On Sep 16, 7:07 pm, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: I have been trying now for a few hours to reverse the scrolling of behavior of the ListView. Essentially when scrolling down with my finger I want the list to scroll up! :) Any tips? Thanks! -Moto -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: Its none of your business how I would like to use this feature. If you come to this group asking for suggestions on how to do somethings that is literally backwards, it does behoove you to explain the motivation. There are many, many posts on here where people ask how do I do X and when the motivation is explained, it turns out they should be doing Y. Understandably, trying to reverse the logic of a standard control reeks of this type of post. it will not end up being used were users would expect a listview to behave like a list view! :) Then why use a list view? I just need tips on how to achieve this... OK. Either try extending ListView and overriding the appropriate methods (if it's possible, not sure), or grab the ListView source, find where it responds to user input and does the scrolling, then reverse it. - TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
On a different phone we ran into this. In a particular context normal scroll behavior was (almost) universally judged by users as backwards, even though a few screens later the situation was reversed. I think some folks need to come down off their high horses and accept that ultimately one should do what works, vs what is right by the book. On Sep 17, 11:37 am, TreKing treking...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: Its none of your business how I would like to use this feature. If you come to this group asking for suggestions on how to do somethings that is literally backwards, it does behoove you to explain the motivation. There are many, many posts on here where people ask how do I do X and when the motivation is explained, it turns out they should be doing Y. Understandably, trying to reverse the logic of a standard control reeks of this type of post. it will not end up being used were users would expect a listview to behave like a list view! :) Then why use a list view? I just need tips on how to achieve this... OK. Either try extending ListView and overriding the appropriate methods (if it's possible, not sure), or grab the ListView source, find where it responds to user input and does the scrolling, then reverse it. - TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:44 AM, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In a particular context normal scroll behavior was (almost) universally judged by users as backwards, even though a few screens later the situation was reversed. What context? If this is clearly explained so the rest of us dumb folk understand, it would be easier to climb down off the high horses. - TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
Hmm... if I have turned the phone upside down. Or maybe a language that goes from down to top;-) Seriously though I don't see what the high horses here are. People have pointed out, rather patiently, that the normal behavior is what is implemented. Anything that goes against that can still be done but with some work on part of the OP. One can argue forever on who defines normal of course... On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:48 PM, TreKing treking...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:44 AM, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In a particular context normal scroll behavior was (almost) universally judged by users as backwards, even though a few screens later the situation was reversed. What context? If this is clearly explained so the rest of us dumb folk understand, it would be easier to climb down off the high horses. - TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
I haven't done that. Look at the source code of the ListView. You can probably extend the ListView class, and override a few methods. http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=blob;f=core/java/android/widget/AbsListView.java;h=f9ca8cb7a43b46e5f213c3c2c96bfbb099103609;hb=cf4550c3198d6b3d92cdc52707fe70d7cc0caa9f -Kumar Bibek http://techdroid.kbeanie.com On Sep 17, 8:40 pm, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: I really don't care if it's user friendly or not! Can you just give up that discussion? I asked a questions if anyone else had done this or had some pointers to try to do this. Its none of your business how I would like to use this feature. And just to make you feel better you can rest assure it will not end up being used were users would expect a listview to behave like a list view! :) So please let's not argue about how user friendly the concept is or is not... I just need tips on how to achieve this... Thanks, -Moto On Sep 17, 7:49 am, Kumar Bibek coomar@gmail.com wrote: It's not the way a touch phone user would expect the scrolling to happen. So, as far as I am concerned, it's not user friendly. -Kumar Bibekhttp://techdroid.kbeanie.com On Sep 17, 4:39 pm, amjath sharief amjathsharief.techsa...@gmail.com wrote: Any feature which is user friendly should be there in any device, whether its desktop or mobile that shouldn't matter. Hence just comment if the feature requested by Moto is user friendly or not. If the answer is yes, then that should be there, how weired someone feels. If the answer is no, then just mention your reasons for saying why its not user friendly. thats it. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: Guys, I appreciate your concern but come on, really? You have no idea what I'm trying to do here. This behavior is not intended for regular phone usage. I'm experimenting with different behaviors. I really apreciate if you would help me out and not jump into conclussions :) Thanks! -Moto On Sep 17, 5:08 am, Indicator Veritatis mej1...@yahoo.com wrote: The most important tip anyone can give you is GIVE UP! It is a bad idea, since it would put your pseudo-ListView at odds with the entire rest of the Android UI. On Sep 16, 7:07 pm, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: I have been trying now for a few hours to reverse the scrolling of behavior of the ListView. Essentially when scrolling down with my finger I want the list to scroll up! :) Any tips? Thanks! -Moto -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
In this particular context there was a simulated scroll wheel superimposed over the edge of the scroll list (for reasons having to do with the dynamics of the controls). For some reason this changed the user's perception of the control completely. Basically, the user saw the wheel as moving the highlight bar up/down vs moving the list up/down. (If you think about it, the scroll wheel on a mouse operates the same way.) I am sure there are other situations where similar perceptual issues could arise, such as when scrolling some sort of a map. And the OP certainly has a right (and perhaps legal obligation) to not disclose the particulars of his application, in addition to simply not wanting to hear even more of You shouldn't be doing it that way. In programming there are some definite shoulds and shouldn'ts, but in UI design far fewer -- it's basically whatever works, combined with a modest respect for convention/precedence. On Sep 17, 11:48 am, TreKing treking...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:44 AM, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In a particular context normal scroll behavior was (almost) universally judged by users as backwards, even though a few screens later the situation was reversed. What context? If this is clearly explained so the rest of us dumb folk understand, it would be easier to climb down off the high horses. - TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
If it makes everyone HAPPY! I'm essentially doing a small study on user interface behavior. I'm trying to test different behaviors of the UI in particular cases. One would be while driving. FYI, you shouldn't be using your phone while driving... In the case of an inverted ListView scrolling behavior, I trying to see how it feels to scroll when I have my hand extended out to the car craddle holding the phone. Here is what I'm trying to test, and I like to actually test not just jump into a conclusion, ohh no this is not UI friendly... ;) *On a ListView usually more content is located below so you need to scroll down which means you must move your finger up. Making this motion of moving the finger up can be very difficult when you are extending your arm. Also, if the air is a bit humid. By inverting the list it might be better to scroll the content by moving your finger down than up! ***REMEMBER THIS IS A CASE STUDY*** @TreKing Thanks for at least hinting on a path. I have been trying to intercept the touch events and trying to invert them but it's not really working... I'll continue to test and try to see if I can post some code of what I'm doing. -Moto On Sep 17, 12:48 pm, TreKing treking...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:44 AM, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In a particular context normal scroll behavior was (almost) universally judged by users as backwards, even though a few screens later the situation was reversed. What context? If this is clearly explained so the rest of us dumb folk understand, it would be easier to climb down off the high horses. - TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
If this is just for testing, you could put a transparent view on top of the ListView, handle events there, and call scrolling methods in the ListView. -- Kostya 17.09.2010 21:06, Moto пишет: If it makes everyone HAPPY! I'm essentially doing a small study on user interface behavior. I'm trying to test different behaviors of the UI in particular cases. One would be while driving. FYI, you shouldn't be using your phone while driving... In the case of an inverted ListView scrolling behavior, I trying to see how it feels to scroll when I have my hand extended out to the car craddle holding the phone. Here is what I'm trying to test, and I like to actually test not just jump into a conclusion, ohh no this is not UI friendly... ;) *On a ListView usually more content is located below so you need to scroll down which means you must move your finger up. Making this motion of moving the finger up can be very difficult when you are extending your arm. Also, if the air is a bit humid. By inverting the list it might be better to scroll the content by moving your finger down than up! ***REMEMBER THIS IS A CASE STUDY*** @TreKing Thanks for at least hinting on a path. I have been trying to intercept the touch events and trying to invert them but it's not really working... I'll continue to test and try to see if I can post some code of what I'm doing. -Moto On Sep 17, 12:48 pm, TreKingtreking...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:44 AM, DanHdanhi...@ieee.org wrote: In a particular context normal scroll behavior was (almost) universally judged by users as backwards, even though a few screens later the situation was reversed. What context? If this is clearly explained so the rest of us dumb folk understand, it would be easier to climb down off the high horses. - TreKinghttp://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- Kostya Vasilyev -- WiFi Manager + pretty widget -- http://kmansoft.wordpress.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
@DanH: Agreed. But the situation you put forth, to achieve that, you probably should not be altering the ListView's scrolling direction. If you can explain your requirements correctly, you would ofcourse be getting answers on that context. If you would just ask, How to run an .apk on a Blackberry, you would obviously get such replies. But, if you say, I have loaded my Blackberry somehow, with the Android OS, and now I would like to know how to run my apps on that device, you will get different answers. So, please, when you ask questions, also try to explain WHY which would help others understand your problem, and give solutions accordingly. -Kumar Bibek http://techdroid.kbeanie.com On Sep 17, 10:04 pm, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In this particular context there was a simulated scroll wheel superimposed over the edge of the scroll list (for reasons having to do with the dynamics of the controls). For some reason this changed the user's perception of the control completely. Basically, the user saw the wheel as moving the highlight bar up/down vs moving the list up/down. (If you think about it, the scroll wheel on a mouse operates the same way.) I am sure there are other situations where similar perceptual issues could arise, such as when scrolling some sort of a map. And the OP certainly has a right (and perhaps legal obligation) to not disclose the particulars of his application, in addition to simply not wanting to hear even more of You shouldn't be doing it that way. In programming there are some definite shoulds and shouldn'ts, but in UI design far fewer -- it's basically whatever works, combined with a modest respect for convention/precedence. On Sep 17, 11:48 am, TreKing treking...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:44 AM, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In a particular context normal scroll behavior was (almost) universally judged by users as backwards, even though a few screens later the situation was reversed. What context? If this is clearly explained so the rest of us dumb folk understand, it would be easier to climb down off the high horses. - TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:04 PM, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In this particular context there was a simulated scroll wheel superimposed over the edge of the scroll list (for reasons having to do with the dynamics of the controls). For some reason this changed the user's perception of the control completely. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. And the OP certainly has a right (and perhaps legal obligation) to not disclose the particulars of his application, in addition to simply not wanting to hear even more of You shouldn't be doing it that way. Certainly - but again, lots of posts come through here where it's *usually* the case that the poster is doing something for the wrong reasons. Clarifying the purpose helps a lot. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: I'm essentially doing a small study on user interface behavior. I think that alone would have sufficed to assure people you knew what you were doing. =) Good luck with your study. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Kostya Vasilyev kmans...@gmail.comwrote: If this is just for testing, you could put a transparent view on top of the ListView, handle events there, and call scrolling methods in the ListView. Clever! OP, try that. - TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
So, please, when you ask questions, also try to explain WHY In his second post the OP said: I'm experimenting with different behaviors. Seems to me that's reason enough. On Sep 17, 12:13 pm, Kumar Bibek coomar@gmail.com wrote: @DanH: Agreed. But the situation you put forth, to achieve that, you probably should not be altering the ListView's scrolling direction. If you can explain your requirements correctly, you would ofcourse be getting answers on that context. If you would just ask, How to run an .apk on a Blackberry, you would obviously get such replies. But, if you say, I have loaded my Blackberry somehow, with the Android OS, and now I would like to know how to run my apps on that device, you will get different answers. So, please, when you ask questions, also try to explain WHY which would help others understand your problem, and give solutions accordingly. -Kumar Bibekhttp://techdroid.kbeanie.com On Sep 17, 10:04 pm, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In this particular context there was a simulated scroll wheel superimposed over the edge of the scroll list (for reasons having to do with the dynamics of the controls). For some reason this changed the user's perception of the control completely. Basically, the user saw the wheel as moving the highlight bar up/down vs moving the list up/down. (If you think about it, the scroll wheel on a mouse operates the same way.) I am sure there are other situations where similar perceptual issues could arise, such as when scrolling some sort of a map. And the OP certainly has a right (and perhaps legal obligation) to not disclose the particulars of his application, in addition to simply not wanting to hear even more of You shouldn't be doing it that way. In programming there are some definite shoulds and shouldn'ts, but in UI design far fewer -- it's basically whatever works, combined with a modest respect for convention/precedence. On Sep 17, 11:48 am, TreKing treking...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:44 AM, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In a particular context normal scroll behavior was (almost) universally judged by users as backwards, even though a few screens later the situation was reversed. What context? If this is clearly explained so the rest of us dumb folk understand, it would be easier to climb down off the high horses. - TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
So, please, when you ask questions, also try to explain WHY In his second post the OP said: I'm experimenting with different behaviors. Seems to me that's reason enough. And I am defending my first reply. On Sep 17, 10:21 pm, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: So, please, when you ask questions, also try to explain WHY In his second post the OP said: I'm experimenting with different behaviors. Seems to me that's reason enough. On Sep 17, 12:13 pm, Kumar Bibek coomar@gmail.com wrote: @DanH: Agreed. But the situation you put forth, to achieve that, you probably should not be altering the ListView's scrolling direction. If you can explain your requirements correctly, you would ofcourse be getting answers on that context. If you would just ask, How to run an .apk on a Blackberry, you would obviously get such replies. But, if you say, I have loaded my Blackberry somehow, with the Android OS, and now I would like to know how to run my apps on that device, you will get different answers. So, please, when you ask questions, also try to explain WHY which would help others understand your problem, and give solutions accordingly. -Kumar Bibekhttp://techdroid.kbeanie.com On Sep 17, 10:04 pm, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In this particular context there was a simulated scroll wheel superimposed over the edge of the scroll list (for reasons having to do with the dynamics of the controls). For some reason this changed the user's perception of the control completely. Basically, the user saw the wheel as moving the highlight bar up/down vs moving the list up/down. (If you think about it, the scroll wheel on a mouse operates the same way.) I am sure there are other situations where similar perceptual issues could arise, such as when scrolling some sort of a map. And the OP certainly has a right (and perhaps legal obligation) to not disclose the particulars of his application, in addition to simply not wanting to hear even more of You shouldn't be doing it that way. In programming there are some definite shoulds and shouldn'ts, but in UI design far fewer -- it's basically whatever works, combined with a modest respect for convention/precedence. On Sep 17, 11:48 am, TreKing treking...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:44 AM, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In a particular context normal scroll behavior was (almost) universally judged by users as backwards, even though a few screens later the situation was reversed. What context? If this is clearly explained so the rest of us dumb folk understand, it would be easier to climb down off the high horses. - TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
In his second post the OP said I'm experimenting with different behaviors. Yet you guys continued to jump on him. And, even if what he's doing is wrong, from a UI standpoint, that only needs to be stated once. If he indicates that he understands this but still desires to continue in that direction, and he's not obviously going in over his head (as in the guys who ask questions like What does 'new String' mean?) then one should either politely respond with helpful information or STFU. On Sep 17, 12:14 pm, TreKing treking...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:04 PM, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In this particular context there was a simulated scroll wheel superimposed over the edge of the scroll list (for reasons having to do with the dynamics of the controls). For some reason this changed the user's perception of the control completely. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. And the OP certainly has a right (and perhaps legal obligation) to not disclose the particulars of his application, in addition to simply not wanting to hear even more of You shouldn't be doing it that way. Certainly - but again, lots of posts come through here where it's *usually* the case that the poster is doing something for the wrong reasons. Clarifying the purpose helps a lot. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: I'm essentially doing a small study on user interface behavior. I think that alone would have sufficed to assure people you knew what you were doing. =) Good luck with your study. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Kostya Vasilyev kmans...@gmail.comwrote: If this is just for testing, you could put a transparent view on top of the ListView, handle events there, and call scrolling methods in the ListView. Clever! OP, try that. - TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
Yes, regarding the transparent overlay trick, I did that in buckets on the application to which I refer. On Sep 17, 12:14 pm, TreKing treking...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:04 PM, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In this particular context there was a simulated scroll wheel superimposed over the edge of the scroll list (for reasons having to do with the dynamics of the controls). For some reason this changed the user's perception of the control completely. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. And the OP certainly has a right (and perhaps legal obligation) to not disclose the particulars of his application, in addition to simply not wanting to hear even more of You shouldn't be doing it that way. Certainly - but again, lots of posts come through here where it's *usually* the case that the poster is doing something for the wrong reasons. Clarifying the purpose helps a lot. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: I'm essentially doing a small study on user interface behavior. I think that alone would have sufficed to assure people you knew what you were doing. =) Good luck with your study. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Kostya Vasilyev kmans...@gmail.comwrote: If this is just for testing, you could put a transparent view on top of the ListView, handle events there, and call scrolling methods in the ListView. Clever! OP, try that. - TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
@Kostya Sounds like a good idea I'll give that a go. @Kumar Bibek I understand that there are a lot of other users on this forum that just post questions asking for others to do their homework or solve their problem magically... I believe my question was clear and to the point... Event if said on my original post, I can't disclose why I'm doing this I think still I would have been told the same by users like you... It is truly not the type of help I was expecting... I'm doing this investigation and it's all about trying things not just listening to one person... That's how new things, innovative things happen, not usually by doing what everybody is doing ;) On Sep 17, 1:29 pm, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: Yes, regarding the transparent overlay trick, I did that in buckets on the application to which I refer. On Sep 17, 12:14 pm, TreKing treking...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:04 PM, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In this particular context there was a simulated scroll wheel superimposed over the edge of the scroll list (for reasons having to do with the dynamics of the controls). For some reason this changed the user's perception of the control completely. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. And the OP certainly has a right (and perhaps legal obligation) to not disclose the particulars of his application, in addition to simply not wanting to hear even more of You shouldn't be doing it that way. Certainly - but again, lots of posts come through here where it's *usually* the case that the poster is doing something for the wrong reasons. Clarifying the purpose helps a lot. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: I'm essentially doing a small study on user interface behavior. I think that alone would have sufficed to assure people you knew what you were doing. =) Good luck with your study. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Kostya Vasilyev kmans...@gmail.comwrote: If this is just for testing, you could put a transparent view on top of the ListView, handle events there, and call scrolling methods in the ListView. Clever! OP, try that. - TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
Super clever! On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Kostya Vasilyev kmans...@gmail.com wrote: If this is just for testing, you could put a transparent view on top of the ListView, handle events there, and call scrolling methods in the ListView. -- Kostya 17.09.2010 21:06, Moto пишет: If it makes everyone HAPPY! I'm essentially doing a small study on user interface behavior. I'm trying to test different behaviors of the UI in particular cases. One would be while driving. FYI, you shouldn't be using your phone while driving... In the case of an inverted ListView scrolling behavior, I trying to see how it feels to scroll when I have my hand extended out to the car craddle holding the phone. Here is what I'm trying to test, and I like to actually test not just jump into a conclusion, ohh no this is not UI friendly... ;) *On a ListView usually more content is located below so you need to scroll down which means you must move your finger up. Making this motion of moving the finger up can be very difficult when you are extending your arm. Also, if the air is a bit humid. By inverting the list it might be better to scroll the content by moving your finger down than up! ***REMEMBER THIS IS A CASE STUDY*** @TreKing Thanks for at least hinting on a path. I have been trying to intercept the touch events and trying to invert them but it's not really working... I'll continue to test and try to see if I can post some code of what I'm doing. -Moto On Sep 17, 12:48 pm, TreKingtreking...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:44 AM, DanHdanhi...@ieee.org wrote: In a particular context normal scroll behavior was (almost) universally judged by users as backwards, even though a few screens later the situation was reversed. What context? If this is clearly explained so the rest of us dumb folk understand, it would be easier to climb down off the high horses. - TreKinghttp://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- Kostya Vasilyev -- WiFi Manager + pretty widget -- http://kmansoft.wordpress.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
Yes, really. I know exactly what you are trying to do. You are trying to force a square peg into a round hole. You are going against the grain, ignoring the design of the system you are working on. You are trying to design a horrible bug into your product. If you actually get any users for it, they will hate you for it. So we ARE helping you by dissuading you from your incredibly bad idea. Trust me. I speak from over 20 years of software development experience. On Sep 17, 4:08 am, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: Guys, I appreciate your concern but come on, really? You have no idea what I'm trying to do here. This behavior is not intended for regular phone usage. I'm experimenting with different behaviors. I really apreciate if you would help me out and not jump into conclussions :) Thanks! -Moto On Sep 17, 5:08 am, Indicator Veritatis mej1...@yahoo.com wrote: The most important tip anyone can give you is GIVE UP! It is a bad idea, since it would put your pseudo-ListView at odds with the entire rest of the Android UI. On Sep 16, 7:07 pm, Moto medicalsou...@gmail.com wrote: I have been trying now for a few hours to reverse the scrolling of behavior of the ListView. Essentially when scrolling down with my finger I want the list to scroll up! :) Any tips? Thanks! -Moto -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
I have worked with numerous UI and UX experts over the years, and not once have I ever heard any of them say anything as rash and glib as whatever works. Not even with your caveat. Nor is your glib assertion consistent with my own experience of good and bad UI design over the years. Besides: your caveat qualified it with respect for convention -- which is exactly what the OP is tossing out the window. And no, the rights you so graciously bestow on the OP do not exist -- except perhaps in the fanciful imaginations of people on their own high horses. Since he asked such a bad question, he is not going to like the answers he gets. Tough luck. Next time, he should read http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html and learn from his mistake. Finally, your example of a simulated scroll wheel does not illustrate the point you think it does. Of course the presence of the wheel changed the user's perception of which way it should be (because of scroll buttons on mice): but by insisting on putting a scroll wheel in there in the first place, no matter how 'good' the reason, you introduced a contradiction into the UI paradigm of the application. If you had studied it a little closer, you would likely have noticed that as users try to make more and more use of the application, a significant plurality of them would have trouble remembering when up is up and when up is down. IOW, given that you had to introduce the wheel, allowing it to go against the grain in that one place may have worked, but only at a cost, and it is quite unconvincing that the wheel really had to be there, or is worth that cost. But I can't say a lot about your old situation, since I know only what you so briefly described. What I CAN say is that it really does go against the grain in Android, and in a way that can only detract from the UX. And that if the OHA or Google had the kind of strict UI guidelines that made Apple's OS so user-friendly even from the early days, it would NOT be allowed. You are making me wish for the straight-jackets from the Developmental Ministry in the Republic of Steve Jobs;) On Sep 17, 10:04 am, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In this particular context there was a simulated scroll wheel superimposed over the edge of the scroll list (for reasons having to do with the dynamics of the controls). For some reason this changed the user's perception of the control completely. Basically, the user saw the wheel as moving the highlight bar up/down vs moving the list up/down. (If you think about it, the scroll wheel on a mouse operates the same way.) I am sure there are other situations where similar perceptual issues could arise, such as when scrolling some sort of a map. And the OP certainly has a right (and perhaps legal obligation) to not disclose the particulars of his application, in addition to simply not wanting to hear even more of You shouldn't be doing it that way. In programming there are some definite shoulds and shouldn'ts, but in UI design far fewer -- it's basically whatever works, combined with a modest respect for convention/precedence. On Sep 17, 11:48 am, TreKing treking...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:44 AM, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In a particular context normal scroll behavior was (almost) universally judged by users as backwards, even though a few screens later the situation was reversed. What context? If this is clearly explained so the rest of us dumb folk understand, it would be easier to climb down off the high horses. - TreKing http://sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered devices -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Re: How to reverse ListView scrolling behavior?
With all due respect -- hell toss respect out the window -- you don't know sith about what you're talking about. I've been in this industry for 40 years, and I've seen all sorts of good and bad UI designs -- many of the worst directly attributable to designers inventing and enforcing rules about what was good and bad, against the explicit advice of others who, from experience and experiment, knew what worked and what didn't. The OP has explained why he wants to reverse the action of the control, and it's a perfectly valid reason, especially given that he's experimenting -- he realizes that what he's planning to try may not work well, but even in the failure of it he may learn some things about how to make a better UI. Granted in several ways it is a square peg into a round hole, but consider that, just maybe, it's the hole that's wrongly shaped, not the peg. The biggest thing that scares me about Android, from the standpoint of investing in it as a platform for future applications, is that already too many features of it are apparently sacred and immutable, even as they clearly demonstrate a poor fit to reality. I'm quite afraid that Android will end up even more hide-bound than iPhone due to this belief on the part of its designers that it's too perfect to permit further modification. On Sep 17, 9:07 pm, Indicator Veritatis mej1...@yahoo.com wrote: I have worked with numerous UI and UX experts over the years, and not once have I ever heard any of them say anything as rash and glib as whatever works. Not even with your caveat. Nor is your glib assertion consistent with my own experience of good and bad UI design over the years. Besides: your caveat qualified it with respect for convention -- which is exactly what the OP is tossing out the window. And no, the rights you so graciously bestow on the OP do not exist -- except perhaps in the fanciful imaginations of people on their own high horses. Since he asked such a bad question, he is not going to like the answers he gets. Tough luck. Next time, he should readhttp://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.htmland learn from his mistake. Finally, your example of a simulated scroll wheel does not illustrate the point you think it does. Of course the presence of the wheel changed the user's perception of which way it should be (because of scroll buttons on mice): but by insisting on putting a scroll wheel in there in the first place, no matter how 'good' the reason, you introduced a contradiction into the UI paradigm of the application. If you had studied it a little closer, you would likely have noticed that as users try to make more and more use of the application, a significant plurality of them would have trouble remembering when up is up and when up is down. IOW, given that you had to introduce the wheel, allowing it to go against the grain in that one place may have worked, but only at a cost, and it is quite unconvincing that the wheel really had to be there, or is worth that cost. But I can't say a lot about your old situation, since I know only what you so briefly described. What I CAN say is that it really does go against the grain in Android, and in a way that can only detract from the UX. And that if the OHA or Google had the kind of strict UI guidelines that made Apple's OS so user-friendly even from the early days, it would NOT be allowed. You are making me wish for the straight-jackets from the Developmental Ministry in the Republic of Steve Jobs;) On Sep 17, 10:04 am, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In this particular context there was a simulated scroll wheel superimposed over the edge of the scroll list (for reasons having to do with the dynamics of the controls). For some reason this changed the user's perception of the control completely. Basically, the user saw the wheel as moving the highlight bar up/down vs moving the list up/down. (If you think about it, the scroll wheel on a mouse operates the same way.) I am sure there are other situations where similar perceptual issues could arise, such as when scrolling some sort of a map. And the OP certainly has a right (and perhaps legal obligation) to not disclose the particulars of his application, in addition to simply not wanting to hear even more of You shouldn't be doing it that way. In programming there are some definite shoulds and shouldn'ts, but in UI design far fewer -- it's basically whatever works, combined with a modest respect for convention/precedence. On Sep 17, 11:48 am, TreKing treking...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:44 AM, DanH danhi...@ieee.org wrote: In a particular context normal scroll behavior was (almost) universally judged by users as backwards, even though a few screens later the situation was reversed. What context? If this is clearly explained so the rest of us dumb folk understand, it would be easier to climb down off the high horses.
