Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Just as a follow up on this thread, I decided to go for the Digium 412P quad port card. Thanks to everyone who commented, positively and negatively - it helped provide a balanced view in the end. Julian. Matt Florell wrote: On 10/6/07, Julian Lyndon-Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Julian Lyndon-Smith wrote: Julian Lyndon-Smith wrote: Nothing from me is posting to the list either. heh. Thought that this trick would work: it did for Doug. I've been trying to send the email below for 3 days now ! I know this is probably going to ignite the flames again .. I have looked at the recent threads regarding these two manufacturers, but there didn't seem to be much *technical* differences between the 2, it was rather more subjective - some people say Sangoma is better, some say Digium. And quite a lot of you're spreading FUD No, you are etc. I wanted to know if anyone has any specific comparisons or suggestions on the Sangoma A104D and the Digium TE406/411 cards ? I didn't want to start a flame war. I honestly just wanted a simple yes or no to the question Is a 406/411 technically comparable to the a104D. I think you mean the TE407/412 cards, the 406/411 series (using the OKI chipset instead of the Octasic) were discontinued by Digium. And while the Sangoma line uses a104 as a base for all variations of their quad-port T1/E1 cards(PCI/PCIexpress/EC/non-EC) Digium has several different product numbers for standard PCI(TE405P/410/407/412) and a different number for their PCIexpress cards(TE420) where it seems that they have changed their product naming scheme to be more similar to Sangoma's adding a B for the echo-can version of the card. Here's a run-down of the available quad T1 cards from the 3 big players: Digium: - TE405P - PCI 5v-only, NO hardware EC - TE410P - PCI 3v-only, NO hardware EC - TE406P/TE411P - DISCONTINUED - TE407P - PCI 5v-only, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation - TE412P - PCI 3v-only, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation - TE420 - PCIexpress, NO hardware EC - TE420B - PCIexpress, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation Rhino: - R4T1 - PCI, NO hardware EC - R4T1-e - PCIexpress, NO hardware EC - Add-on Octasic Echo Canceller Sangoma: - a104 - PCI, NO Hardware EC - a104X - PCIexpress, NO Hardware EC - a104d - PCI, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation - a104dX - PCIexpress, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation From what I've read, the IRQ issues are not present any more on the digium cards. Is the echo cancelling hardware comparable ? I need to install the new card in a dell 2850 or 2950 or possibly even a HP DL360. Anyone have some comments on this ? Do not use Dell. I have had issues with both Sangoma and Digium cards on multiple brand-new Dell servers. This is the only vendor that has consistently given me problems with telco-interface cards. Hope that helps, MATT--- fwiw, my heart says I should buy Digium. My head says I should buy Sangoma. Either my head needs to be convinced that the TE406 is technically as good and as reliable as the 104D, or my heart needs to fall out of love with the romantic notion of supporting Digium because of asterisk. Julian We have used the TE405 and te410 in the past, changed to sangoma A102 (because of problems we were having at the time that we now think may have been telco related). Setting up the digium cards seemed simpler (no patching etc, and no extra wanrouter drivers) but the A102 seem very stable and reliable. Julian Julian ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ __ This email for dotr.com has been scanned by MessageLabs __ ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ __ This email for dotr.com has been scanned by MessageLabs
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Julian Lyndon-Smith wrote: Julian Lyndon-Smith wrote: Nothing from me is posting to the list either. heh. Thought that this trick would work: it did for Doug. I've been trying to send the email below for 3 days now ! I know this is probably going to ignite the flames again .. I have looked at the recent threads regarding these two manufacturers, but there didn't seem to be much *technical* differences between the 2, it was rather more subjective - some people say Sangoma is better, some say Digium. And quite a lot of you're spreading FUD No, you are etc. I wanted to know if anyone has any specific comparisons or suggestions on the Sangoma A104D and the Digium TE406/411 cards ? I didn't want to start a flame war. I honestly just wanted a simple yes or no to the question Is a 406/411 technically comparable to the a104D. From what I've read, the IRQ issues are not present any more on the digium cards. Is the echo cancelling hardware comparable ? I need to install the new card in a dell 2850 or 2950 or possibly even a HP DL360. Anyone have some comments on this ? fwiw, my heart says I should buy Digium. My head says I should buy Sangoma. Either my head needs to be convinced that the TE406 is technically as good and as reliable as the 104D, or my heart needs to fall out of love with the romantic notion of supporting Digium because of asterisk. Julian We have used the TE405 and te410 in the past, changed to sangoma A102 (because of problems we were having at the time that we now think may have been telco related). Setting up the digium cards seemed simpler (no patching etc, and no extra wanrouter drivers) but the A102 seem very stable and reliable. Julian Julian ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ __ This email for dotr.com has been scanned by MessageLabs __ ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ __ This email for dotr.com has been scanned by MessageLabs __ ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
On 10/5/07, Julian Lyndon-Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have looked at the recent threads regarding these two manufacturers, but there didn't seem to be much *technical* differences between the 2, it was rather more subjective - some people say Sangoma is better, some say Digium. And quite a lot of you're spreading FUD No, you are etc. To all on this thread: Buying a hardware piece for voip (or for anything) is like looking for a spouse and soulmate. What will be your best choice may not be someone else's best choice. You have all had experience debugging, right? You know that every installation has a thousand variables, both hardware and software, both human and electro-mechanical. Common wisdom states that you shouldn't run several cards in one PC, yet I have 2 X100P and one TDM400P, all early generation cards in one PIII-800 box and they work fine. Even the zaptel diagnostics score well! Of course, we have a low call volume, one of the many variables. I am positive that no scientific measurement will allow you to make a choice based on charts and reading. I was at the Axis camera exhibitor stand a few days ago, and while I looked at the different cameras the person there said immediately, if your customers want to test drive any of these, let me know and we'll lend them one for a month. A good retailer of voip hardware would perhaps be able to do this for you. Alas, I'll bet few of them can in reality. The only way to see if hardware matches your needs and your very specific installation is to try it. That means you'd either have to have a budget to test stuff and hope to resell it, or find a reseller that is willing to let you try a particular unit before paying for it or return it for credit if it doesn't perfom as planned. I am sensitive to the argument that Digium should get first consideration for the reasons already mentioned, but if another choice has been proven significantly better, I don't think anyone at Digium would rather you used their stuff if it was going to perform in an inferior manner. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
On 10/6/07, Julian Lyndon-Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Julian Lyndon-Smith wrote: Julian Lyndon-Smith wrote: Nothing from me is posting to the list either. heh. Thought that this trick would work: it did for Doug. I've been trying to send the email below for 3 days now ! I know this is probably going to ignite the flames again .. I have looked at the recent threads regarding these two manufacturers, but there didn't seem to be much *technical* differences between the 2, it was rather more subjective - some people say Sangoma is better, some say Digium. And quite a lot of you're spreading FUD No, you are etc. I wanted to know if anyone has any specific comparisons or suggestions on the Sangoma A104D and the Digium TE406/411 cards ? I didn't want to start a flame war. I honestly just wanted a simple yes or no to the question Is a 406/411 technically comparable to the a104D. I think you mean the TE407/412 cards, the 406/411 series (using the OKI chipset instead of the Octasic) were discontinued by Digium. And while the Sangoma line uses a104 as a base for all variations of their quad-port T1/E1 cards(PCI/PCIexpress/EC/non-EC) Digium has several different product numbers for standard PCI(TE405P/410/407/412) and a different number for their PCIexpress cards(TE420) where it seems that they have changed their product naming scheme to be more similar to Sangoma's adding a B for the echo-can version of the card. Here's a run-down of the available quad T1 cards from the 3 big players: Digium: - TE405P - PCI 5v-only, NO hardware EC - TE410P - PCI 3v-only, NO hardware EC - TE406P/TE411P - DISCONTINUED - TE407P - PCI 5v-only, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation - TE412P - PCI 3v-only, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation - TE420 - PCIexpress, NO hardware EC - TE420B - PCIexpress, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation Rhino: - R4T1 - PCI, NO hardware EC - R4T1-e - PCIexpress, NO hardware EC - Add-on Octasic Echo Canceller Sangoma: - a104 - PCI, NO Hardware EC - a104X - PCIexpress, NO Hardware EC - a104d - PCI, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation - a104dX - PCIexpress, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation From what I've read, the IRQ issues are not present any more on the digium cards. Is the echo cancelling hardware comparable ? I need to install the new card in a dell 2850 or 2950 or possibly even a HP DL360. Anyone have some comments on this ? Do not use Dell. I have had issues with both Sangoma and Digium cards on multiple brand-new Dell servers. This is the only vendor that has consistently given me problems with telco-interface cards. Hope that helps, MATT--- fwiw, my heart says I should buy Digium. My head says I should buy Sangoma. Either my head needs to be convinced that the TE406 is technically as good and as reliable as the 104D, or my heart needs to fall out of love with the romantic notion of supporting Digium because of asterisk. Julian We have used the TE405 and te410 in the past, changed to sangoma A102 (because of problems we were having at the time that we now think may have been telco related). Setting up the digium cards seemed simpler (no patching etc, and no extra wanrouter drivers) but the A102 seem very stable and reliable. Julian Julian ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ __ This email for dotr.com has been scanned by MessageLabs __ ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ __ This email for dotr.com has been scanned by MessageLabs __ ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
On 10/6/07, Matt Florell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do not use Dell. I have had issues with both Sangoma and Digium cards on multiple brand-new Dell servers. This is the only vendor that has consistently given me problems with telco-interface cards. I'll have to refute this. Every single asterisk system I've put together has been on a Dell hardware. I use Sangoma linecards in all of my systems. I'm running several of the lower-end Dell SC server series, as well as several servers running on higher-end PowerEdge 2950, 2650, and 1950 hardware. I haven't had a single problem on any of them, audio quality-wise or stabilty-wise. -Erik ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Thanks Matt, Matt Florell wrote: On 10/6/07, Julian Lyndon-Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Julian Lyndon-Smith wrote: Julian Lyndon-Smith wrote: Nothing from me is posting to the list either. heh. Thought that this trick would work: it did for Doug. I've been trying to send the email below for 3 days now ! I know this is probably going to ignite the flames again .. I have looked at the recent threads regarding these two manufacturers, but there didn't seem to be much *technical* differences between the 2, it was rather more subjective - some people say Sangoma is better, some say Digium. And quite a lot of you're spreading FUD No, you are etc. I wanted to know if anyone has any specific comparisons or suggestions on the Sangoma A104D and the Digium TE406/411 cards ? I didn't want to start a flame war. I honestly just wanted a simple yes or no to the question Is a 406/411 technically comparable to the a104D. I think you mean the TE407/412 cards, the 406/411 series (using the OKI chipset instead of the Octasic) were discontinued by Digium. And while the Sangoma line uses a104 as a base for all variations of their quad-port T1/E1 cards(PCI/PCIexpress/EC/non-EC) Digium has I saw that today ;) several different product numbers for standard PCI(TE405P/410/407/412) and a different number for their PCIexpress cards(TE420) where it seems that they have changed their product naming scheme to be more similar to Sangoma's adding a B for the echo-can version of the card. Here's a run-down of the available quad T1 cards from the 3 big players: Digium: - TE405P - PCI 5v-only, NO hardware EC - TE410P - PCI 3v-only, NO hardware EC - TE406P/TE411P - DISCONTINUED - TE407P - PCI 5v-only, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation - TE412P - PCI 3v-only, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation - TE420 - PCIexpress, NO hardware EC - TE420B - PCIexpress, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation Rhino: - R4T1 - PCI, NO hardware EC - R4T1-e - PCIexpress, NO hardware EC - Add-on Octasic Echo Canceller Sangoma: - a104 - PCI, NO Hardware EC - a104X - PCIexpress, NO Hardware EC - a104d - PCI, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation - a104dX - PCIexpress, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation From what I've read, the IRQ issues are not present any more on the digium cards. Is the echo cancelling hardware comparable ? I need to install the new card in a dell 2850 or 2950 or possibly even a HP DL360. Anyone have some comments on this ? Do not use Dell. I have had issues with both Sangoma and Digium cards on multiple brand-new Dell servers. This is the only vendor that has consistently given me problems with telco-interface cards. We've been running on a dell machine for a couple of years with no problems - but I've heard that lots of people have the problem. Would you recommend the HP then ? Hope that helps, MATT--- fwiw, my heart says I should buy Digium. My head says I should buy Sangoma. Either my head needs to be convinced that the TE406 is technically as good and as reliable as the 104D, or my heart needs to fall out of love with the romantic notion of supporting Digium because of asterisk. Julian We have used the TE405 and te410 in the past, changed to sangoma A102 (because of problems we were having at the time that we now think may have been telco related). Setting up the digium cards seemed simpler (no patching etc, and no extra wanrouter drivers) but the A102 seem very stable and reliable. Julian Julian ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ __ This email for dotr.com has been scanned by MessageLabs __ ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ __ This email for dotr.com has been scanned by MessageLabs
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
On 10/6/07, Erik Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/6/07, Matt Florell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do not use Dell. I have had issues with both Sangoma and Digium cards on multiple brand-new Dell servers. This is the only vendor that has consistently given me problems with telco-interface cards. I'll have to refute this. Every single asterisk system I've put together has been on a Dell hardware. I use Sangoma linecards in all of my systems. I'm running several of the lower-end Dell SC server series, as well as several servers running on higher-end PowerEdge 2950, 2650, and 1950 hardware. I haven't had a single problem on any of them, audio quality-wise or stabilty-wise. Some compatibility issues, but mostly stability issues. It started last year with a 6850(4 x dual-core Xeons) that I ran with a PCI Sangoma 8-port T1 card to do stress tests on. Two of the CPUs burned up after 5 weeks of stress tests. Then over the last year I have had three large clients that are Dell-only companies and they all had dozens of 2U 2950 servers. about half of them that I worked on(8 out of 16) handled the PCIexpress cards just fine, but some of them would randomly crash with PCIE errors. Didn't matter if it was Sangoma or Digium, they crashed just the same. I would take a card that was crashing one system and put it in one of the servers with no issues and it would be fine, and I would take a card from a working system and put it in the troubled servers and the problems would show up. There is also the problem with the Digium TE420 where if you put it into the PCIexpress x4 slot on the Dell 2950 that the machine will not even post, I never had that happen on any other system or motherboard. In the end, two of the companies switched to other server manufacturers for their Asterisk servers and all of these problems went away completely. The third company is sticking with Dell, and I have been going through Dell support and multiple on-site service calls to try to get these systems working. I do not post a negative review of a manufacturer unless I have a lot of personal first-hand experience to prove my opinions, and in the case of Dell I have a lot of it. MATT--- -Erik ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
On 10/6/07, Julian Lyndon-Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Matt, Matt Florell wrote: On 10/6/07, Julian Lyndon-Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Julian Lyndon-Smith wrote: Julian Lyndon-Smith wrote: Nothing from me is posting to the list either. heh. Thought that this trick would work: it did for Doug. I've been trying to send the email below for 3 days now ! I know this is probably going to ignite the flames again .. I have looked at the recent threads regarding these two manufacturers, but there didn't seem to be much *technical* differences between the 2, it was rather more subjective - some people say Sangoma is better, some say Digium. And quite a lot of you're spreading FUD No, you are etc. I wanted to know if anyone has any specific comparisons or suggestions on the Sangoma A104D and the Digium TE406/411 cards ? I didn't want to start a flame war. I honestly just wanted a simple yes or no to the question Is a 406/411 technically comparable to the a104D. I think you mean the TE407/412 cards, the 406/411 series (using the OKI chipset instead of the Octasic) were discontinued by Digium. And while the Sangoma line uses a104 as a base for all variations of their quad-port T1/E1 cards(PCI/PCIexpress/EC/non-EC) Digium has I saw that today ;) several different product numbers for standard PCI(TE405P/410/407/412) and a different number for their PCIexpress cards(TE420) where it seems that they have changed their product naming scheme to be more similar to Sangoma's adding a B for the echo-can version of the card. Here's a run-down of the available quad T1 cards from the 3 big players: Digium: - TE405P - PCI 5v-only, NO hardware EC - TE410P - PCI 3v-only, NO hardware EC - TE406P/TE411P - DISCONTINUED - TE407P - PCI 5v-only, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation - TE412P - PCI 3v-only, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation - TE420 - PCIexpress, NO hardware EC - TE420B - PCIexpress, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation Rhino: - R4T1 - PCI, NO hardware EC - R4T1-e - PCIexpress, NO hardware EC - Add-on Octasic Echo Canceller Sangoma: - a104 - PCI, NO Hardware EC - a104X - PCIexpress, NO Hardware EC - a104d - PCI, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation - a104dX - PCIexpress, Octasic Hardware Echo-cancellation From what I've read, the IRQ issues are not present any more on the digium cards. Is the echo cancelling hardware comparable ? I need to install the new card in a dell 2850 or 2950 or possibly even a HP DL360. Anyone have some comments on this ? Do not use Dell. I have had issues with both Sangoma and Digium cards on multiple brand-new Dell servers. This is the only vendor that has consistently given me problems with telco-interface cards. We've been running on a dell machine for a couple of years with no problems - but I've heard that lots of people have the problem. Would you recommend the HP then ? One of my Dell-only clients switched to HP and they have not had any issues since the switch. So yes I would recommend HP servers over Dell servers when using quad T1 cards. MATT--- Hope that helps, MATT--- fwiw, my heart says I should buy Digium. My head says I should buy Sangoma. Either my head needs to be convinced that the TE406 is technically as good and as reliable as the 104D, or my heart needs to fall out of love with the romantic notion of supporting Digium because of asterisk. Julian We have used the TE405 and te410 in the past, changed to sangoma A102 (because of problems we were having at the time that we now think may have been telco related). Setting up the digium cards seemed simpler (no patching etc, and no extra wanrouter drivers) but the A102 seem very stable and reliable. Julian Julian ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ __ This email for dotr.com has been scanned by MessageLabs __ ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium:
Matt Florell wrote: On 10/6/07, Julian Lyndon-Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I need to install the new card in a dell 2850 or 2950 or possibly even a HP DL360. Anyone have some comments on this ? Do not use Dell. I have had issues with both Sangoma and Digium cards on multiple brand-new Dell servers. This is the only vendor that has consistently given me problems with telco-interface cards. Very true. We've had some bad experience with Dell as well. PS: Hey Matt, please http://learn.to/quote :) Just remove all that unnecessary text. Regards, Philipp Kempgen -- amooma GmbH - Bachstr. 126 - 56566 Neuwied - http://www.amooma.de Let's use IT to solve problems and not to create new ones. Asterisk? - http://www.das-asterisk-buch.de Geschäftsführer: Stefan Wintermeyer Handelsregister: Neuwied B 14998 ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Brian West wrote: open market and an open platform. Rhino makes hardware that plugs into zaptel but yet I don't see their drivers in the zaptel repo... I don't see many of the third party hardware drivers in the zaptel repo. Those drivers would be there (as are the Xorcom XPP drivers) if they were properly submitted and met our coding guidelines. To date I have no knowledge of Sangoma ever submitting a driver for inclusion in Zaptel, and the last time anyone talked about a driver submission from Rhino the code was not in a state that met our minimum requirements for acceptance. -- Kevin P. Fleming Director of Software Technologies Digium, Inc. - The Genuine Asterisk Experience (TM) ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Kevin, Thats good to know. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks, Brian PS: did you ever talk to mark about zaptel.h ? On Oct 5, 2007, at 8:12 AM, Kevin P. Fleming wrote: Those drivers would be there (as are the Xorcom XPP drivers) if they were properly submitted and met our coding guidelines. To date I have no knowledge of Sangoma ever submitting a driver for inclusion in Zaptel, and the last time anyone talked about a driver submission from Rhino the code was not in a state that met our minimum requirements for acceptance. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Sangoma has contributed to Asterisk in the past and they still do. They also have contributed to Yate, FreeSWITCH and various other software that is capable of using their hardware. This argument of Digium vs Sangoma is very emotional for some. I see it as competition is good and drives innovation. Digium can't take every bit of credit for Asterisk, you have to remember the community has a large part in making Asterisk as popular as it is. I know their is hostility directed at anyone that uses non-Digium hardware by some folks and their shouldn't be. Its an open market and an open platform. Rhino makes hardware that plugs into zaptel but yet I don't see their drivers in the zaptel repo... I don't see many of the third party hardware drivers in the zaptel repo. /b On Oct 5, 2007, at 7:51 AM, Steve Murphy wrote: Oh, Julian, I'd imagine what I'm about to say will fuel some flames! Here's a fairly powerful argument for all you asterisk users, as to why you should purchase a Digium product vs. a Sangoma: Because Digium uses a chunk of the purchase money to support Asterisk. And Sangoma DOES NOT. Digium employs several developers specifically to maintain and improve Asterisk. Sangoma DOES NOT. While they may maintain and improve their own versions of the various drivers, THEY DO NOT SHARE THEIR SOFTWARE. Matt F. told me last week we haven't seen ANYTHING from them for a LONG TIME, with respect to the zaptel drivers. If they have been contributing patches, they are disguising their association with Sangoma. Don't get me wrong. I AM a Digium employee! A software Developer to be specific, an Asterisk developer to be precise. So, I AM highly biased towards Digium! Digium has a harder job than Sangoma with respect to Asterisk. While Digium takes a chunk of its revenue, and uses it to maintain and improve Asterisk (not just the drivers), Sangoma doesn't, and it gives them a competitive edge. So, for all you folks who have bought Digium, I personally thank you! You have helped Asterisk, and you have personally helped ME. If you have long-range business or interest in Asterisk, you are indirectly contributing to its growth and improvement when you buy Digium products services. murf -- Steve Murphy Software Developer Digium ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
On Fri, 2007-10-05 at 13:06 +0100, Julian Lyndon-Smith wrote: Julian Lyndon-Smith wrote: Nothing from me is posting to the list either. heh. Thought that this trick would work: it did for Doug. I've been trying to send the email below for 3 days now ! I know this is probably going to ignite the flames again .. I have looked at the recent threads regarding these two manufacturers, but there didn't seem to be much *technical* differences between the 2, it was rather more subjective - some people say Sangoma is better, some say Digium. And quite a lot of you're spreading FUD No, you are etc. I wanted to know if anyone has any specific comparisons or suggestions on the Sangoma A104D and the Digium TE406/411 cards ? We have used the TE405 and te410 in the past, changed to sangoma A102 (because of problems we were having at the time that we now think may have been telco related). Setting up the digium cards seemed simpler (no patching etc, and no extra wanrouter drivers) but the A102 seem very stable and reliable. Julian Oh, Julian, I'd imagine what I'm about to say will fuel some flames! Here's a fairly powerful argument for all you asterisk users, as to why you should purchase a Digium product vs. a Sangoma: Because Digium uses a chunk of the purchase money to support Asterisk. And Sangoma DOES NOT. Digium employs several developers specifically to maintain and improve Asterisk. Sangoma DOES NOT. While they may maintain and improve their own versions of the various drivers, THEY DO NOT SHARE THEIR SOFTWARE. Matt F. told me last week we haven't seen ANYTHING from them for a LONG TIME, with respect to the zaptel drivers. If they have been contributing patches, they are disguising their association with Sangoma. Don't get me wrong. I AM a Digium employee! A software Developer to be specific, an Asterisk developer to be precise. So, I AM highly biased towards Digium! Digium has a harder job than Sangoma with respect to Asterisk. While Digium takes a chunk of its revenue, and uses it to maintain and improve Asterisk (not just the drivers), Sangoma doesn't, and it gives them a competitive edge. So, for all you folks who have bought Digium, I personally thank you! You have helped Asterisk, and you have personally helped ME. If you have long-range business or interest in Asterisk, you are indirectly contributing to its growth and improvement when you buy Digium products services. murf -- Steve Murphy Software Developer Digium smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Steve Murphy wrote: Oh, Julian, I'd imagine what I'm about to say will fuel some flames! Here's a fairly powerful argument for all you asterisk users, as to why you should purchase a Digium product vs. a Sangoma: Because Digium uses a chunk of the purchase money to support Asterisk. And Sangoma DOES NOT. Digium employs I've not tried Sangoma, Rhino or any of the clones like Atcom or Zapmicro cards. And I'm only really Hijacking this thread because I haven't been able to get this question posted. Is there any way of finding the serial number to a TDM-400P without taking the machine apart? (and preferably without resetting it). How can you tell a Genuine Digium Product from a fake one? (since they arrive in OEM packaging). ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Brian West wrote: Sangoma has contributed to Asterisk in the past and they still do. They also have contributed to Yate, FreeSWITCH and various other software that is capable of using their hardware. This argument of Digium vs Sangoma is very emotional for some. I see it as competition is good and drives innovation. Digium can't take every bit of credit for Asterisk, you have to remember the community has a large part in making Asterisk as popular as it is. I know their is hostility directed at anyone that uses non-Digium hardware by some folks and their shouldn't be. Its an open market and an open platform. Rhino makes hardware that plugs into zaptel but yet I don't see their drivers in the zaptel repo... I don't see many of the third party hardware drivers in the zaptel repo. Not to ignite any fires, but I don't think I've *ever* knowingly received a patch to libpri or chan_zap from them. And I've fixed a few protocol related bugs in libpri for people with Sangoma cards. It'd be nice if they at the very least supported the protocol stacks and zaptel channel driver they use to make money off their cards. Matthew Fredrickson /b On Oct 5, 2007, at 7:51 AM, Steve Murphy wrote: Oh, Julian, I'd imagine what I'm about to say will fuel some flames! Here's a fairly powerful argument for all you asterisk users, as to why you should purchase a Digium product vs. a Sangoma: Because Digium uses a chunk of the purchase money to support Asterisk. And Sangoma DOES NOT. Digium employs several developers specifically to maintain and improve Asterisk. Sangoma DOES NOT. While they may maintain and improve their own versions of the various drivers, THEY DO NOT SHARE THEIR SOFTWARE. Matt F. told me last week we haven't seen ANYTHING from them for a LONG TIME, with respect to the zaptel drivers. If they have been contributing patches, they are disguising their association with Sangoma. Don't get me wrong. I AM a Digium employee! A software Developer to be specific, an Asterisk developer to be precise. So, I AM highly biased towards Digium! Digium has a harder job than Sangoma with respect to Asterisk. While Digium takes a chunk of its revenue, and uses it to maintain and improve Asterisk (not just the drivers), Sangoma doesn't, and it gives them a competitive edge. So, for all you folks who have bought Digium, I personally thank you! You have helped Asterisk, and you have personally helped ME. If you have long-range business or interest in Asterisk, you are indirectly contributing to its growth and improvement when you buy Digium products services. murf -- Steve Murphy Software Developer Digium ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Matthew Fredrickson Software/Firmware Engineer Digium, Inc. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
This is really a silly debate. I used to buy Digium products until they let me down with all kinds of quirky behavior with regards to echo, clicks, incompatible motherboards and IRQ issues. I read all the success and praises of Sangoma on this list and thought I would give them a try. Guess what? I have had none of the above issues since going Sangoma. Digium products actually lost me money and reputation. Many small business owners talk in their little circles. Do you think that a business owner is going to sing praises of a system that exhibits all sorts of annoying audio issues? I bet they will if they get an Asterisk system that has perfect audio (ie referrals for me = more money). Do you think a small business owner is going to be satisfied with audio problems? Nope. That means more time going back to the site (gas+time+money lost from not doing something else) or remote which gives the consumer less of a warm fuzzy feeling but saves me gas and a little time. As far as I know, most of the Asterisk code has come from the community who have done the work and signed over their rights to Digium. Maybe someone can correct me there, I really don't know. I do what is best for my customers and myself, and if that means Sangoma, then so be it. My allegiance is to nobody but us as far as a phone system goes. In fact, I have steered certain companies away from Asterisk and sold and installed 3com V3000s because I knew they would not be happy with anything less. Asterisk is vendor neutral opensource software (supposed to be anyways). The more corporate it goes, the more backlash you will see, forks are inevitable when Digium employees are posting to the lists in anger. Anyways, maybe Sangoma has actually done Digium and the Asterisk community a HUGE favor by upping the bar as far as hardware goes. It has been some time since I have used Digium products, that they very well might be on par with Sangoma now. Can anyone that has used both recently confirm this (unbiased of course). Thanks, Steve Totaro Matthew Fredrickson wrote: Brian West wrote: Sangoma has contributed to Asterisk in the past and they still do. They also have contributed to Yate, FreeSWITCH and various other software that is capable of using their hardware. This argument of Digium vs Sangoma is very emotional for some. I see it as competition is good and drives innovation. Digium can't take every bit of credit for Asterisk, you have to remember the community has a large part in making Asterisk as popular as it is. I know their is hostility directed at anyone that uses non-Digium hardware by some folks and their shouldn't be. Its an open market and an open platform. Rhino makes hardware that plugs into zaptel but yet I don't see their drivers in the zaptel repo... I don't see many of the third party hardware drivers in the zaptel repo. Not to ignite any fires, but I don't think I've *ever* knowingly received a patch to libpri or chan_zap from them. And I've fixed a few protocol related bugs in libpri for people with Sangoma cards. It'd be nice if they at the very least supported the protocol stacks and zaptel channel driver they use to make money off their cards. Matthew Fredrickson /b On Oct 5, 2007, at 7:51 AM, Steve Murphy wrote: Oh, Julian, I'd imagine what I'm about to say will fuel some flames! Here's a fairly powerful argument for all you asterisk users, as to why you should purchase a Digium product vs. a Sangoma: Because Digium uses a chunk of the purchase money to support Asterisk. And Sangoma DOES NOT. Digium employs several developers specifically to maintain and improve Asterisk. Sangoma DOES NOT. While they may maintain and improve their own versions of the various drivers, THEY DO NOT SHARE THEIR SOFTWARE. Matt F. told me last week we haven't seen ANYTHING from them for a LONG TIME, with respect to the zaptel drivers. If they have been contributing patches, they are disguising their association with Sangoma. Don't get me wrong. I AM a Digium employee! A software Developer to be specific, an Asterisk developer to be precise. So, I AM highly biased towards Digium! Digium has a harder job than Sangoma with respect to Asterisk. While Digium takes a chunk of its revenue, and uses it to maintain and improve Asterisk (not just the drivers), Sangoma doesn't, and it gives them a competitive edge. So, for all you folks who have bought Digium, I personally thank you! You have helped Asterisk, and you have personally helped ME. If you have long-range business or interest in Asterisk, you are indirectly contributing to its growth and improvement when you buy Digium products services. murf -- Steve Murphy Software Developer Digium ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Brian West wrote: Sangoma has contributed to Asterisk in the past and they still do. Which contributions are you talking about, exactly? I know that they paid someone to write app_dictate a couple of years ago, but that is the only thing I can think of that has come through since I have been involved (for a little over 3 years now). In that same time frame, the number of bug fixes and new things coming from Digium is many, many hundreds, and likely in the _thousands_. -- Russell Bryant Software Engineer Digium, Inc. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
I think Lee Howard nailed it. /b ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Matthew Fredrickson wrote: Not to ignite any fires, but I don't think I've *ever* knowingly received a patch to libpri or chan_zap from them. And I've fixed a few protocol related bugs in libpri for people with Sangoma cards. It'd be nice if they at the very least supported the protocol stacks and zaptel channel driver they use to make money off their cards. The report appears to have been reaped from Mantis, but I was involved with a contribution from OpenVOX for zaptel, and from my perspective it looked like the Digium staff involved killed it and never gave any indication that the contribution would be accepted. Certainly seeing that kind of antagonism isn't going to encourage competitors to contribute. There is an atmosphere of hostility between Digium and its competitors that you yourself are expressing in this very thread. Expecting those competitors to eagerly come to your table and play in your pool underneath your rules... and then complaining publicly against them when they don't is really a bit much. Any Digium competitor is immediately on unequal footing with respect to Asterisk due to the dual-license and requisite disclaiming of contributions. You're asking those competitors to contribute not only to the open-source Asterisk, but also to contribute to Digium's ABE and private licensing ambitions. In my estimation what you're complaining about is only fair-play. If you really want fairness then start by being fair yourself. Lee. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Thomas Kenyon wrote: Steve Murphy wrote: Oh, Julian, I'd imagine what I'm about to say will fuel some flames! Here's a fairly powerful argument for all you asterisk users, as to why you should purchase a Digium product vs. a Sangoma: Because Digium uses a chunk of the purchase money to support Asterisk. And Sangoma DOES NOT. Digium employs I've not tried Sangoma, Rhino or any of the clones like Atcom or Zapmicro cards. And I'm only really Hijacking this thread because I haven't been able to get this question posted. Is there any way of finding the serial number to a TDM-400P without taking the machine apart? (and preferably without resetting it). How can you tell a Genuine Digium Product from a fake one? (since they arrive in OEM packaging). The card usually has writing on it as to whom the manufacturer is. I trust that a bit. Run lspci and it should tell you what you have too. Thanks, Steve Totaro ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Lee Howard wrote: Any Digium competitor is immediately on unequal footing with respect to Asterisk due to the dual-license and requisite disclaiming of contributions. You're asking those competitors to contribute not only to the open-source Asterisk, but also to contribute to Digium's ABE and private licensing ambitions. I understand your point here. In fact, while I strongly encourage any company with a commercial interest in Asterisk to contribute, but I do _not_ expect it of them. My argument, really, is this. I understand and believe that an open and competitive market leads to the best results for the consumers in the end. With that said, evaluate your alternatives and use what best fits your needs. As a Digium employee, I hope that we can continue to provide what best fits your needs as the consumer. Also, in the hardware market, if all things are considered equal, I hope that people give us a chance to be your first choice, given our dedication to Asterisk and open source software. Also, if anyone has a problem with our hardware, I just ask that you give our support and engineering departments a reasonable chance to evaluate and fix your problems that we better serve you and other customers in the future. Thank you to everyone for your support of Asterisk. It has been _extremely_ exciting for me to be able to work on this project. -- Russell Bryant Software Engineer Digium, Inc. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
On Fri, 2007-10-05 at 08:05 -0500, Brian West wrote: Sangoma has contributed to Asterisk in the past and they still do. They also have contributed to Yate, FreeSWITCH and various other software that is capable of using their hardware. This argument of Digium vs Sangoma is very emotional for some. I see it as competition is good and drives innovation. Digium can't take every bit of credit for Asterisk, you have to remember the community has a large part in making Asterisk as popular as it is. I know their is hostility directed at anyone that uses non-Digium hardware by some folks and their shouldn't be. Its an open market and an open platform. Rhino makes hardware that plugs into zaptel but yet I don't see their drivers in the zaptel repo... I don't see many of the third party hardware drivers in the zaptel repo. Brian-- I'm not trying to generate flames here, and believe me, this is not a very emotional issue for me. It's just facts. If Sangoma is contributing to Asterisk, I've personally not noticed it, nor anyone else I've talked to. It's no big deal to me what they do or don't do. But from the perspective of Asterisk as a entity in its own right, Sangoma is somewhat of a parasite, siphoning off resources and making no noticeable contribution in return, other than to sharpen Digium in a competitive market. Digium and Asterisk also have a relationship, much more symbiotic in my view. And it wouldn't surprise me in the least to hear that Sangoma contributes to Yate, FreeSWITCH and various other software that is capable of using their hardware, as those submissions would not be perceived as aiding a competitor. My observation of Digium as a business is that they know how to compete. Or rather, that WE know how to compete, and will do so to the best of our abilities. And I will not deny that the competition between Digium and others has not benefited buyers in all camps! I/We **love** competition! I've noticed no policy to exclude other hardware vendors from contributing their drivers or mods from the asterisk source. I know Matt would welcome any help he can get to improve the quality of the zaptel drivers, no matter the source. As far as I can tell, Sangoma is doing the purely business thing: it makes no sense to them, to contribute to Asterisk, as that might in some way relieve their competitor of a burden, -- you just don't help competitors in that way. All I can say is, and I'm smiling right now, if that's the way they want to handle it, more power to them. But to Asterisk users, and from the viewpoint of Asterisk itself, all I can say, is that you are shooting yourself in the foot if you buy anything but Digium. Just being logical here. (Repeat, I AM biased! Sorry!) murf /b On Oct 5, 2007, at 7:51 AM, Steve Murphy wrote: Oh, Julian, I'd imagine what I'm about to say will fuel some flames! Here's a fairly powerful argument for all you asterisk users, as to why you should purchase a Digium product vs. a Sangoma: Because Digium uses a chunk of the purchase money to support Asterisk. And Sangoma DOES NOT. Digium employs several developers specifically to maintain and improve Asterisk. Sangoma DOES NOT. While they may maintain and improve their own versions of the various drivers, THEY DO NOT SHARE THEIR SOFTWARE. Matt F. told me last week we haven't seen ANYTHING from them for a LONG TIME, with respect to the zaptel drivers. If they have been contributing patches, they are disguising their association with Sangoma. Don't get me wrong. I AM a Digium employee! A software Developer to be specific, an Asterisk developer to be precise. So, I AM highly biased towards Digium! Digium has a harder job than Sangoma with respect to Asterisk. While Digium takes a chunk of its revenue, and uses it to maintain and improve Asterisk (not just the drivers), Sangoma doesn't, and it gives them a competitive edge. So, for all you folks who have bought Digium, I personally thank you! You have helped Asterisk, and you have personally helped ME. If you have long-range business or interest in Asterisk, you are indirectly contributing to its growth and improvement when you buy Digium products services. murf -- Steve Murphy Software Developer Digium smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Lee Howard wrote: The report appears to have been reaped from Mantis, but I was involved with a contribution from OpenVOX for zaptel, and from my perspective it looked like the Digium staff involved killed it and never gave any indication that the contribution would be accepted. I assume you are referring to issue 7742 - http://bugs.digium.com/view.php?id=7742 The OpenVox tech (MiaoLin) said to Tzafrir (who does not work for Digium) that he needed to make changes to the patch. As was stated on the bug when it was closed, once those changes are made, we would certainly add the patch. If you have the updated patch with the changes he said were needed, please do reopen the bug. -- Jason Parker Digium ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
On Fri, 2007-10-05 at 11:32 -0400, Steve Totaro wrote: I used to buy Digium products until they let me down with all kinds of quirky behavior with regards to echo, clicks, incompatible motherboards and IRQ issues. (Let me take off my Digium hat for a minute and speak as a community member, and not as a Digium employee. The opinions expressed below are my own, and not Digium's.) I'll be the first to admit that Digium has made some design mistakes on some of their cards in the past. And since I've been doing Asterisk consulting and also teaching Asterisk Bookcamp classes for the past two and a half years, I've seen Digium hardware installed on a wide variety of motherboards. I'm happy to report that I haven't had any motherboard or IRQ incompatibility with any of Digium's newer cards that use their VoiceBus technology. In some ways, I think Digium hasn't said enough about their efforts to fix the problems of the past and to make sure that their products are rock solid. So if anything, I've gotta stand up for Digium a little bit here and say Yes, they've had problems in the past. But you shouldn't discount the effort they're making to change that. That being said, I've also had the opportunity to spend a lot of time using hardware from most of the other board vendors. For the most part, they've worked OK for me and my clients, but they aren't perfect either. The biggest problems have been related to drivers (either drivers that are buggy, or won't work with the latest version of Zaptel or the kernel). Obviously in a perfect world the third-party drivers would be integrated right into Zaptel, and the zaptel drivers would all be pushed upstream into the Linux kernel. Until that happens, we're going to continue to have these sorts of problems to a certain extent. (I also have a philosophical problem with certain of the smaller-scale board vendors that basically do a lot of taking from the community and don't give anything back, but that's another topic for another day.) I should also mention that I strongly believe that competition (or maybe co-opmetition?) helps keep the world progressing and keeps all the players on their toes. At the same time, I believe there's been more than enough mud-slinging both in this list and in other venues, and we should be able to each make our own decision on the boards based on their technical merits, and not on vague generalities or past mistakes. -Jared Smith ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
I disagree with any argument for or against Digium in support of Asterisk as much as I do for or against Sangoma or Rhino or one of the Chinese knock offs in support of Asterisk. Digium uses the open source community to create better commercial software products and their licensing policies reflect that whereby they own the code anyone contributes so it's not like they don't benefit if you don't buy their hardware. I say buy the best product for the job whether that be Digium or Sangoma or Rhino or whatever. Nobody should feel obligated to buy one over the other for any reason whatsoever. Nobody is saying that the community should not be grateful for what Digium has and continues to do. Nobody should be saying that the community should be expressing that gratitude by buying Digium hardware either. Just as the community should not be asking Digium to remove their licensing restrictions to express their gratitude for the thousands of individuals not affiliated with Digium that test and document and file bug reports and submit patches for Asterisk every day. My 2bits. -Original Message- From: Matthew Fredrickson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 8:09 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too) Brian West wrote: Sangoma has contributed to Asterisk in the past and they still do. They also have contributed to Yate, FreeSWITCH and various other software that is capable of using their hardware. This argument of Digium vs Sangoma is very emotional for some. I see it as competition is good and drives innovation. Digium can't take every bit of credit for Asterisk, you have to remember the community has a large part in making Asterisk as popular as it is. I know their is hostility directed at anyone that uses non-Digium hardware by some folks and their shouldn't be. Its an open market and an open platform. Rhino makes hardware that plugs into zaptel but yet I don't see their drivers in the zaptel repo... I don't see many of the third party hardware drivers in the zaptel repo. Not to ignite any fires, but I don't think I've *ever* knowingly received a patch to libpri or chan_zap from them. And I've fixed a few protocol related bugs in libpri for people with Sangoma cards. It'd be nice if they at the very least supported the protocol stacks and zaptel channel driver they use to make money off their cards. Matthew Fredrickson /b On Oct 5, 2007, at 7:51 AM, Steve Murphy wrote: Oh, Julian, I'd imagine what I'm about to say will fuel some flames! Here's a fairly powerful argument for all you asterisk users, as to why you should purchase a Digium product vs. a Sangoma: Because Digium uses a chunk of the purchase money to support Asterisk. And Sangoma DOES NOT. Digium employs several developers specifically to maintain and improve Asterisk. Sangoma DOES NOT. While they may maintain and improve their own versions of the various drivers, THEY DO NOT SHARE THEIR SOFTWARE. Matt F. told me last week we haven't seen ANYTHING from them for a LONG TIME, with respect to the zaptel drivers. If they have been contributing patches, they are disguising their association with Sangoma. Don't get me wrong. I AM a Digium employee! A software Developer to be specific, an Asterisk developer to be precise. So, I AM highly biased towards Digium! Digium has a harder job than Sangoma with respect to Asterisk. While Digium takes a chunk of its revenue, and uses it to maintain and improve Asterisk (not just the drivers), Sangoma doesn't, and it gives them a competitive edge. So, for all you folks who have bought Digium, I personally thank you! You have helped Asterisk, and you have personally helped ME. If you have long-range business or interest in Asterisk, you are indirectly contributing to its growth and improvement when you buy Digium products services. murf -- Steve Murphy Software Developer Digium ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Matthew Fredrickson Software/Firmware Engineer Digium, Inc. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Hi, all: I think everybody is entitled to their biases, and I have to say that -- far from seeing this as a flame-war or otherwise tedious -- I think it's great that we're having this discussion and getting open and honest input from Digium staffers. We want to hear your thoughts and feelings on the issue, because the rumour mill has been going full-blast, and honesty helps public perception and keeps the speculation to a minimum. I appreciate the difficulty of Digium's position as both the keeper of the flame and manufacturer of hardware. Open source business models aren't obvious or easy. So -- now that we acknowledge that running a business is tough stuff, let's be fair and say that Sangoma faces many of the same challenges. Honestly, if Sangoma had to depend purely on Asterisk for its bread and butter, it wouldn't be around, so calling it a parasite is off the mark. The arrival of Asterisk has certainly been a good thing for Sangoma, but they are a hardware manufacturer and always have been. That's a different heritage than Digium's. Different history, different worldview, different approach. My bias is purely this: I like quality. I like stuff to work. I'll give everything a chance. If Digium has made strides in improving their product (and anecdotal evidence suggests this to be the case -- personally I haven't run any of the newer hardware yet) then that's great and I'd absolutely be willing to give it another go. Digium should be (and some of the guys there seem to be) grateful that there is this kind of competition. You can argue that competing manufacturers have benefited from the open source Asterisk, but it would be disingenous to suggest -- code contributions or not -- that the reverse is not also true. The bar got raised. Certain flaws were made obvious. And let's not forget one last thing: Asterisk's utility depends on reliable hardware. We are not in a competitive vacuum here -- if Asterisk doesn't work well because the only hardware available for it is flakey, then Asterisk, the Asterisk community, and Digium all lose. Don't miss where the competition is -- it's not the other card manufacturers. It's Cisco. It's Nortel. It's Avaya, and on some planets, 3Com/Panasonic/NEC/Toshiba ;) . This is a business *ecosystem* we're in here. If I could make a couple of suggestions to Digium, right in the open sunshine, they would be these: 1. Embrace your competitors. I realize you're already doing this to some extent -- but there's a lot of rhubarb going on about what will happen to Astricon now that Digium has bought Sokol and Associates. Make sure the other guys are still welcome to come to the dance, and let them speak, too. Everybody wants to see this thing succeed, and there's lots of room on the dance floor for everybody. 2. Communicate. I realize it's a challenge when you're busy, but I can make it simpler for you. The most important thing is responsiveness. People have to know that their input has registered, or they're going to feel ignored, they'll lose their trust and go elsewhere (this has been improving at Digium in the last 6 months, so credit to them). 3. Remember that there is a big world outside the United States. Some Asterisk users in other countries have been getting the feeling that Digium cares very little about their specific circumstances and implementation challenges. (I think Digium's figuring this out too -- the BRI card is the evidence -- but there's nothing wrong with reinforcing it. Things were not so good before). Those are my 102 cents. Again - I'm glad we're talking about this. It can only help. Cheers, -Stephen- ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Like fixing the poor design of the TDM400P and TE110 with the newer cards that advertise VoiceBus. For a company that supposedly embraces the open source philosophy I don't think Digium has been very forthcoming with what they are doing so they should not be surprised by any apparent lack of understanding from the community. It seems to me like it's been and continues to be a one way street. The dual licensing scheme is indicative of that as well. -Original Message- From: Russell Bryant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 8:50 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too) Brian West wrote: Sangoma has contributed to Asterisk in the past and they still do. Which contributions are you talking about, exactly? I know that they paid someone to write app_dictate a couple of years ago, but that is the only thing I can think of that has come through since I have been involved (for a little over 3 years now). In that same time frame, the number of bug fixes and new things coming from Digium is many, many hundreds, and likely in the _thousands_. -- Russell Bryant Software Engineer Digium, Inc. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
I was completely against the dual licensing in the beginning. But now, I'm leaning more towards understanding it and the importance of it, especially as it related to US Patent laws. We're going to find that everything is patented in the US. This is going to be the demise of open source in the US. Only with indeminifcation clauses are we going to be able to use software. We'll have to use software that already has already the patent license agreements in place. This is where the dual licensing and ABE comes in, in my opinion. On 10/5/07, shadowym [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Like fixing the poor design of the TDM400P and TE110 with the newer cards that advertise VoiceBus. For a company that supposedly embraces the open source philosophy I don't think Digium has been very forthcoming with what they are doing so they should not be surprised by any apparent lack of understanding from the community. It seems to me like it's been and continues to be a one way street. The dual licensing scheme is indicative of that as well. -Original Message- From: Russell Bryant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 8:50 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too) Brian West wrote: Sangoma has contributed to Asterisk in the past and they still do. Which contributions are you talking about, exactly? I know that they paid someone to write app_dictate a couple of years ago, but that is the only thing I can think of that has come through since I have been involved (for a little over 3 years now). In that same time frame, the number of bug fixes and new things coming from Digium is many, many hundreds, and likely in the _thousands_. -- Russell Bryant Software Engineer Digium, Inc. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Lacy Moore Somewhere I wish I wasn't ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Jared Smith wrote: On Fri, 2007-10-05 at 11:32 -0400, Steve Totaro wrote: I used to buy Digium products until they let me down with all kinds of quirky behavior with regards to echo, clicks, incompatible motherboards and IRQ issues. (Let me take off my Digium hat for a minute and speak as a community member, and not as a Digium employee. The opinions expressed below are my own, and not Digium's.) I'll be the first to admit that Digium has made some design mistakes on some of their cards in the past. And since I've been doing Asterisk consulting and also teaching Asterisk Bookcamp classes for the past two and a half years, I've seen Digium hardware installed on a wide variety of motherboards. I'm happy to report that I haven't had any motherboard or IRQ incompatibility with any of Digium's newer cards that use their VoiceBus technology. In some ways, I think Digium hasn't said enough about their efforts to fix the problems of the past and to make sure that their products are rock solid. So if anything, I've gotta stand up for Digium a little bit here and say Yes, they've had problems in the past. But you shouldn't discount the effort they're making to change that. That being said, I've also had the opportunity to spend a lot of time using hardware from most of the other board vendors. For the most part, they've worked OK for me and my clients, but they aren't perfect either. The biggest problems have been related to drivers (either drivers that are buggy, or won't work with the latest version of Zaptel or the kernel). Obviously in a perfect world the third-party drivers would be integrated right into Zaptel, and the zaptel drivers would all be pushed upstream into the Linux kernel. Until that happens, we're going to continue to have these sorts of problems to a certain extent. (I also have a philosophical problem with certain of the smaller-scale board vendors that basically do a lot of taking from the community and don't give anything back, but that's another topic for another day.) I should also mention that I strongly believe that competition (or maybe co-opmetition?) helps keep the world progressing and keeps all the players on their toes. At the same time, I believe there's been more than enough mud-slinging both in this list and in other venues, and we should be able to each make our own decision on the boards based on their technical merits, and not on vague generalities or past mistakes. -Jared Smith I have been in the Asterisk community a little longer than you. I hope you do not consider sharing my experiences as mudslinging. If you do, you should make sure you have your Digium hat and socks off and reconsider. Past experience is one of the things that makes this list great. Anything other than someone's past experience is theory. Here is an idea. Let me exchange my old boards (gathering dust) for your New and Improved boards and I will try them in production. If I do not experience the same issues from the past, I will gladly go back to Digium hardware and sing praises to the lists. If I have the same issues, then that is a different story. The bottom line (and what you conveniently snipped) is that I do what is best for my customers and myself. I live by the cliche (slightly modified for this situation) Sell Me Sub par Hardware Once, Shame on You. Sell Me Sub Par Hardware Twice, Shame on Me I know what works and I generally stick to that. If there has been such vast improvements in hardware, how come Digium is not doing press releases or posting the improvements to the list or a changelog somewhere? Again, take off your Digium hat and socks and think about it. It is a valid question and you raised it yourself and should probably be raised with Mark and the Adtran guys (maybe even the 3com guys too ;-) Again, I hope nobody takes this as mudslinging or bashing Digium, I would be more than happy to buy Digium products if I had the faith that was lost along with many hours of troubleshooting, losing customers, one thing we can all sympathize with, stress. Thanks, Steve Totaro ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
On Friday 05 October 2007 12:52:41 shadowym wrote: I disagree with any argument for or against Digium in support of Asterisk as much as I do for or against Sangoma or Rhino or one of the Chinese knock offs in support of Asterisk. Digium uses the open source community to create better commercial software products and their licensing policies reflect that whereby they own the code anyone contributes so it's not like they don't benefit if you don't buy their hardware. I try my best to stay out of these flame wars, but what you've expressed here is simply wrong. When you contribute code to Asterisk, you retain ownership of your code. You are NOT disclaiming the contribution; you are LICENSING the contribution. This is an important legal distinction, and all too often, it gets muddled by people who either do not understand the distinction or have ulterior motives. -- Tilghman ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 01:26:58PM -0500, Lacy Moore wrote: I was completely against the dual licensing in the beginning. But now, I'm leaning more towards understanding it and the importance of it, especially as it related to US Patent laws. We're going to find that everything is patented in the US. This is going to be the demise of open source in the US. Only with indeminifcation clauses are we going to be able to use software. We'll have to use software that already has already the patent license agreements in place. This is where the dual licensing and ABE comes in, in my opinion. Your line of thinking reminds me of another doomsday scenario: http://lwn.net/Articles/162686/ Linux in a binary world... a doomsday scenario What if.. what if the linux kernel developers tomorrow accept that binary modules are OK and are essential for the progress of linux. a hypothetical doomsday scenario by Arjan van de Ven Strangely enough, this hasn't happened. Things have actually improved with the recent decelartions of AMD/ATI . If you are right, then the pressure will kill Asterisk. At least as a market leader. Not leave just an ABE. The ABE has no existance in the long run without the free version. -- Tzafrir Cohen icq#16849755 jabber:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +972-50-7952406 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.xorcom.com iax:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/tzafrir ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
The distinction doesn't matter because in the end they can do what ever they want with the code you disclaim to them. The whole thing is very political and pointless to hash over and over again. /b On Oct 5, 2007, at 2:52 PM, Tilghman Lesher wrote: When you contribute code to Asterisk, you retain ownership of your code. You are NOT disclaiming the contribution; you are LICENSING the contribution. This is an important legal distinction, and all too often, it gets muddled by people who either do not understand the distinction or have ulterior motives. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 02:52:24PM -0500, Tilghman Lesher wrote: On Friday 05 October 2007 12:52:41 shadowym wrote: I disagree with any argument for or against Digium in support of Asterisk as much as I do for or against Sangoma or Rhino or one of the Chinese knock offs in support of Asterisk. Digium uses the open source community to create better commercial software products and their licensing policies reflect that whereby they own the code anyone contributes so it's not like they don't benefit if you don't buy their hardware. I try my best to stay out of these flame wars, but what you've expressed here is simply wrong. When you contribute code to Asterisk, you retain ownership of your code. You are NOT disclaiming the contribution; you are LICENSING the contribution. This is an important legal distinction, and all too often, it gets muddled by people who either do not understand the distinction or have ulterior motives. This is correct for the contribution itself. But improvements to that code could be taken privately. To illustrate this: would it be possible for me to ocntribute the same code to say, both Asterisk and chan_ss7[1] ? I could, as long as I'm the author. But once either in Asterisk or in chan_ss7 there are some local improvements over that code, I may no longer be in a posistion to send my fixes to bith. [1] Assume that there is indeed soemthing to be submitted to both projects. Recall that chan_ss7 employs a similar licensing scheme to Asterisk itself - requires relicensing of the code in order for the contribution to get into the tree. Anyway, the things that bothers me most about this is that the strange license is almost GPL - close enough to GPL to make it incompatible with a bunhc of licenses (and not even GPL3, which is nicer, in that sense), but as it is not GPL, no other GPLed code could be used. Thus the GPL pool cannot be tapped. And we resort to substitutes such as editline. -- Tzafrir Cohen icq#16849755 jabber:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +972-50-7952406 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.xorcom.com iax:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/tzafrir ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Because there is still old hardware in the pipeline at distributors and resellers. They may even still be manufacturing some of that old hardware so there is probably a lot of unrealized money involved. So in that sense I can't blame them for being a bit hush hush about it's short comings. Digium is advertising the new hardware improvements but at the same time they are careful not to talk about the shortcomings of older hardware. Just look for the discussions about VoiceBus on their site. -Original Message- From: Steve Totaro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:35 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too) Jared Smith wrote: On Fri, 2007-10-05 at 11:32 -0400, Steve Totaro wrote: I used to buy Digium products until they let me down with all kinds of quirky behavior with regards to echo, clicks, incompatible motherboards and IRQ issues. (Let me take off my Digium hat for a minute and speak as a community member, and not as a Digium employee. The opinions expressed below are my own, and not Digium's.) I'll be the first to admit that Digium has made some design mistakes on some of their cards in the past. And since I've been doing Asterisk consulting and also teaching Asterisk Bookcamp classes for the past two and a half years, I've seen Digium hardware installed on a wide variety of motherboards. I'm happy to report that I haven't had any motherboard or IRQ incompatibility with any of Digium's newer cards that use their VoiceBus technology. In some ways, I think Digium hasn't said enough about their efforts to fix the problems of the past and to make sure that their products are rock solid. So if anything, I've gotta stand up for Digium a little bit here and say Yes, they've had problems in the past. But you shouldn't discount the effort they're making to change that. That being said, I've also had the opportunity to spend a lot of time using hardware from most of the other board vendors. For the most part, they've worked OK for me and my clients, but they aren't perfect either. The biggest problems have been related to drivers (either drivers that are buggy, or won't work with the latest version of Zaptel or the kernel). Obviously in a perfect world the third-party drivers would be integrated right into Zaptel, and the zaptel drivers would all be pushed upstream into the Linux kernel. Until that happens, we're going to continue to have these sorts of problems to a certain extent. (I also have a philosophical problem with certain of the smaller-scale board vendors that basically do a lot of taking from the community and don't give anything back, but that's another topic for another day.) I should also mention that I strongly believe that competition (or maybe co-opmetition?) helps keep the world progressing and keeps all the players on their toes. At the same time, I believe there's been more than enough mud-slinging both in this list and in other venues, and we should be able to each make our own decision on the boards based on their technical merits, and not on vague generalities or past mistakes. -Jared Smith I have been in the Asterisk community a little longer than you. I hope you do not consider sharing my experiences as mudslinging. If you do, you should make sure you have your Digium hat and socks off and reconsider. Past experience is one of the things that makes this list great. Anything other than someone's past experience is theory. Here is an idea. Let me exchange my old boards (gathering dust) for your New and Improved boards and I will try them in production. If I do not experience the same issues from the past, I will gladly go back to Digium hardware and sing praises to the lists. If I have the same issues, then that is a different story. The bottom line (and what you conveniently snipped) is that I do what is best for my customers and myself. I live by the cliche (slightly modified for this situation) Sell Me Sub par Hardware Once, Shame on You. Sell Me Sub Par Hardware Twice, Shame on Me I know what works and I generally stick to that. If there has been such vast improvements in hardware, how come Digium is not doing press releases or posting the improvements to the list or a changelog somewhere? Again, take off your Digium hat and socks and think about it. It is a valid question and you raised it yourself and should probably be raised with Mark and the Adtran guys (maybe even the 3com guys too ;-) Again, I hope nobody takes this as mudslinging or bashing Digium, I would be more than happy to buy Digium products if I had the faith that was lost along with many hours of troubleshooting, losing customers, one thing we can all sympathize with, stress. Thanks, Steve Totaro ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
On Friday 05 October 2007 15:08:56 Brian West wrote: On Oct 5, 2007, at 2:52 PM, Tilghman Lesher wrote: When you contribute code to Asterisk, you retain ownership of your code. You are NOT disclaiming the contribution; you are LICENSING the contribution. This is an important legal distinction, and all too often, it gets muddled by people who either do not understand the distinction or have ulterior motives. The distinction doesn't matter because in the end they can do what ever they want with the code you disclaim to them. The whole thing is very political and pointless to hash over and over again. It doesn't matter in Digium's case, but it does matter for the other 99.999% of the businesses out there. If anybody else uses your code without following the licensing restrictions, you have the ability to prosecute those violations. Had you DISCLAIMED your code, you would have no right to do anything (in fact, you'd have no copyright). -- Tilghman ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
On Friday 05 October 2007 15:20:19 Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 02:52:24PM -0500, Tilghman Lesher wrote: On Friday 05 October 2007 12:52:41 shadowym wrote: I disagree with any argument for or against Digium in support of Asterisk as much as I do for or against Sangoma or Rhino or one of the Chinese knock offs in support of Asterisk. Digium uses the open source community to create better commercial software products and their licensing policies reflect that whereby they own the code anyone contributes so it's not like they don't benefit if you don't buy their hardware. I try my best to stay out of these flame wars, but what you've expressed here is simply wrong. When you contribute code to Asterisk, you retain ownership of your code. You are NOT disclaiming the contribution; you are LICENSING the contribution. This is an important legal distinction, and all too often, it gets muddled by people who either do not understand the distinction or have ulterior motives. This is correct for the contribution itself. But improvements to that code could be taken privately. Correct, but only by Digium or another licensor downstream of Digium. You do not give up your rights by licensing the code, but you would give up all rights IF you disclaimed it. -- Tilghman ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Brian West wrote: I think the horse has been long dead! /b Yeah, and while we're on such things, I think that vi beats the pants off of emacs :-) -- Matthew Fredrickson Software/Firmware Engineer Digium, Inc. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
I think the horse has been long dead! /b ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Matthew Fredrickson wrote: Yeah, and while we're on such things, I think that vi beats the pants off of emacs :-) vim to be precise. but on the other hand emacs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMac) can run asterisk - vim can't. :-P Cheers, Philipp Kempgen -- amooma GmbH - Bachstr. 126 - 56566 Neuwied - http://www.amooma.de Let's use IT to solve problems and not to create new ones. Asterisk? - http://www.das-asterisk-buch.de Geschäftsführer: Stefan Wintermeyer Handelsregister: Neuwied B 14998 ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Sangoma vs Digium: (was Re: ping too)
Steve Totaro wrote: Thomas Kenyon wrote: Steve Murphy wrote: Oh, Julian, I'd imagine what I'm about to say will fuel some flames! Here's a fairly powerful argument for all you asterisk users, as to why you should purchase a Digium product vs. a Sangoma: Because Digium uses a chunk of the purchase money to support Asterisk. And Sangoma DOES NOT. Digium employs I've not tried Sangoma, Rhino or any of the clones like Atcom or Zapmicro cards. And I'm only really Hijacking this thread because I haven't been able to get this question posted. Is there any way of finding the serial number to a TDM-400P without taking the machine apart? (and preferably without resetting it). How can you tell a Genuine Digium Product from a fake one? (since they arrive in OEM packaging). The card usually has writing on it as to whom the manufacturer is. I trust that a bit. Run lspci and it should tell you what you have too. I have a suspect card and I have a hopefully Genuilne card. lspci on the genuine states: :01:02.0 Communication controller: Tiger Jet Network Inc. Tiger3XX Modem/ISDN interface I have a probably ingenuine card that states: 01:01.0 Network controller: Tiger Jet Network Inc. Tiger3XX Modem/ISDN interface TBH it's hard to tell the difference. It's just reading the HPEC guff and finding that I can probably get a free license since the card is less than 2 years old (if memory serves correctly) and for the 3 channels (which have honestly never hit more than 1 in use so far) I really have the spare runtime. Oh and FWIW, I am completely hammered, so if anyone takes offense at the above posting, then I apologise and I am not of my right mind, well that and I am livid that I don't have enough cash on me to buy a kebab. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Yes the digium cards are relatively cheap compared to traditional telephony cards. A four port Eicon BRI card costs as much as the digium 4 port E1 so on a per channel basis (8 vs 120) the digium is very reasonable. Must think in terms of bang for buck before opening mouth next time. As for the server, well it is a case of the appropriate tool for the job, there is no SLA requirement for redundant power supply, raid, multiple CPU's, uber expensive reg ECC ram etc for the local servers in this particular application. The 750's are cheap enough to treat as disposable and I can get two of them for less than the cost of a redundant 1850, giving me a hot swap spare at each site. The central server will probably end up around the 5 digits mark and it'll have all the fruit, although personally I believe that reg ECC sdram is nothing more than a huge rort. Craig - Original Message - From: Max W Blackmer Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 5:46 AM Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium spending over $A10,000 in the process. The cards are more expensive than the server they're going into (Dell poweredge 750's). When a GPL'd hardware It is obvious that you have never experienced high end servers. We have had a single server cost as much as $20,000 and that is nothing but high performance hardware(Raid, REG ECC memory[mirrored for redundancy], Dual Xeon Server). Then you add in any specialized hardware that can easily up the cost to $30,000. and that is just one machine. when you need performance you pay for it one way or another. A lot of times it is better to pay more for reliability and performance. Max ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Dinesh Nair wrote: On 04/01/05 00:00 Matthew Boehm said the following: Steve Underwood wrote: And your EU bias is clearly demonstrated by this. I've never seen a BRI product outside he EU. :-) Come to Houston, TX. We were running a BRI for quite some time before upgrading to a T1. ahem, ISDN BRIs are fairly common here in asia too. but i guess that asia don't count now, does it ? :) I live in Asia, and BRI is extremely rare in Asia. You must be living in some untypical BRI hotspot if you think otherwise :-) Steve ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Depends what you mean by in use. You will find BRI listed as a service option in most countries. including China and the US. Installed lines is different matter. They are so rare in most places that if you order one it will be the technician's first install, and they will have enough problems you give up and choose a non-BRI option. :-) Asian makers say almost all production of BRI kit goes to the EU. Regards, Steve Michael Bielicki wrote: BRI's are in use in roughly 2/3 of the world with the US and I think China being the main exceptions. On Apr 4, 2005 9:37 AM, Dinesh Nair [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 04/01/05 00:00 Matthew Boehm said the following: Steve Underwood wrote: And your EU bias is clearly demonstrated by this. I've never seen a BRI product outside he EU. :-) Come to Houston, TX. We were running a BRI for quite some time before upgrading to a T1. ahem, ISDN BRIs are fairly common here in asia too. but i guess that asia don't count now, does it ? :) ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
spending over $A10,000 in the process. The cards are more expensive than the server they're going into (Dell poweredge 750's). When a GPL'd hardware It is obvious that you have never experienced high end servers. We have had a single server cost as much as $20,000 and that is nothing but high performance hardware(Raid, REG ECC memory[mirrored for redundancy], Dual Xeon Server). Then you add in any specialized hardware that can easily up the cost to $30,000. and that is just one machine. when you need performance you pay for it one way or another. A lot of times it is better to pay more for reliability and performance. Max ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Technically speaking not. But Sangoma's support seems to be pretty much better. My understanding is that to an extent when we buy Sangoma we're putting the dagger to Digium. They're glad to use Asterisk as a selling point for their hardware, but unwilling to donate anything back to the Asterisk community. digium can sell asterisk shirk-wrapped with the current dual licence. if other hardware is better than digium's, I'd buy it, both because it _is_ better and because digium's support isn't the best on the planet, to be frank. Last time I bought a sangoma card, I was given excellent support by the reseller from .pl roy ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
What about pricing of the Sangoma compared to Digium, is it comparable? about the same. last i checked the digium te410 was $1599 and the 4-port e1/t1 card from sangom was $1699. Can Sangoma card handle modem data incoming calls at all? iirc, modem data is just voice/noise :P. roy ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
cpu load on te4xxp cards is very low, and now that they have echo cancellers as add-ons cards, it will be even lower. I can't speak on hardware compatibility as i never tried a sangoma card. (But i can say that in the last year i've never had an issue with digium cards and we have 8 in use.) The te405p card resolved most incompatibilty issues. Digium has a hardware echo can? Yes. Send them an email about the TE411P and tell them you want the upgrade option. the upgrade is only $1500 iirc, on top of the $1599 you just paid for the card. roy ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Hi All, Roy, I'm not entirely sure if you paid attention to what you wrote, as you said: Last time I bought a sangoma card, I was given excellent support by the reseller from .pl. Now, this means that Sangoma has a local reseller that renders support for Sangoma products. Most of the people here are complaining about the fact that when calling Digium, the service is problematic. Well, I believe that Digium should services it's channels, the channels should support the resellers and the resellers should support The customers. I don't think that any company, no matter what its size or function is, could support the end users. Even the mighty ugly M$ has country based support Centers. We are currently in the process of establishing such a service center in Israel and Turkey, to service the market here. The end target is to have the resellers and Customer call the local support center, and not call Digium in the states. If someone thinks otherwise, I'd be happy to know about it. Nir S -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:40 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium Technically speaking not. But Sangoma's support seems to be pretty much better. My understanding is that to an extent when we buy Sangoma we're putting the dagger to Digium. They're glad to use Asterisk as a selling point for their hardware, but unwilling to donate anything back to the Asterisk community. digium can sell asterisk shirk-wrapped with the current dual licence. if other hardware is better than digium's, I'd buy it, both because it _is_ better and because digium's support isn't the best on the planet, to be frank. Last time I bought a sangoma card, I was given excellent support by the reseller from .pl roy ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Hi, Digium, the service is problematic. Well, I believe that Digium should services it's channels, the channels should support the resellers and the resellers should support The customers. I don't think that any company, no matter what its size or function is, could support the end users. Even the mighty ugly M$ has country based support Centers. I hate to say that, but the problem is that Digium doesn't do this. They allow resellers to do market dumping, by not imposing fixed list prices to resellers, they also compete with they're own distributors/resellers by offering the cards online and by offering services directly to end users. In this way they're destroying they're own reseller network and there's no commercial gain into supporting the end user (as resellers). Sangoma doesn't do that. they don't sell directly, thus allowing resellers to have a money gain and pay the time to support the end user. again, I hate to say that, but is a common pow. I hope that digium will change their mind in the way they sells hw/services. Matteo ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Matteo, I don't know much about DIgium, but I am comparing the distribution policy with what exists elsewhere in the market and other sectors. Digium do sell online and so many other of their resellers do. The important point is that they don't sell lower cost than their resellers, which is the case. Reseller added value is find customers and retail locally in his place with local variables of config, ...etc. They are the ones to find customers and to make sure they bring added value. I don't know what's unusual in this approach? Please elaborate. Thanks, Selon Matteo Brancaleoni [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Digium, the service is problematic. Well, I believe that Digium should services it's channels, the channels should support the resellers and the resellers should support The customers. I don't think that any company, no matter what its size or function is, could support the end users. Even the mighty ugly M$ has country based support Centers. I hate to say that, but the problem is that Digium doesn't do this. They allow resellers to do market dumping, by not imposing fixed list prices to resellers, they also compete with they're own distributors/resellers by offering the cards online and by offering services directly to end users. In this way they're destroying they're own reseller network and there's no commercial gain into supporting the end user (as resellers). Sangoma doesn't do that. they don't sell directly, thus allowing resellers to have a money gain and pay the time to support the end user. again, I hate to say that, but is a common pow. I hope that digium will change their mind in the way they sells hw/services. Matteo ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Hi, Il giorno gio, 07-04-2005 alle 13:02 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Digium do sell online and so many other of their resellers do. The important point is that they don't sell lower cost than their resellers, which is the case. Please find an hardware producer that sells directly to endusers, when they have also distributors/resellers. The way is: if you have resellers, sell through them. if not directly to end user. Reseller added value is find customers and retail locally in his place with local variables of config, ...etc. They are the ones to find customers and to make sure they bring added value. Yes of course. but they're sure that the customer will buy from them. normally the user will buy directly from the hw maker (and this's ok) if the hw maker allows that, since in this way the user thinks that going directly to the manufacturer they'll have better support and better price. I know that is can not be the real truth, but is how's perceived from an enduser pow. We're Digium resellers, but some .it people buy the card from other countries (because not imposing list prices allows resellers to do market dumping) or even direlcty from Digium. And we apply the very same Digium list price. and the import taxes are payed by our reseller discount. So when the enduser buys directly from .usa, they will pay list price plus taxes, so more than our final price. But this is not considered, seems. I don't know what's unusual in this approach? everything. Matteo ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Yes, Most hardware manufacturers I know sell directly at retail price. In voip Business and from my experience, you can order Quintum gateways from Quintum Technologies right away at retail price. You can always get them cheaper from reseller. GSM devices manufacturers sell direct as well although they have resellers, unless exclusively agreed not to sell in that part of the world. For me it seems logical that manufacturer promote products themselves and sell them. Because resellers sometimes just don't react to sales leads. There is no reason why a manufacturer should lose these sales leads if reseller does not react. Now, if customers go to Digium right away instead of coming to reseller even though reseller is better price and close with pieces in stock to be served immediately, I think it is not the distribution of Digium that has problem, but the customers :-) Regards, Hakem, Selon Matteo Brancaleoni [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Il giorno gio, 07-04-2005 alle 13:02 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Digium do sell online and so many other of their resellers do. The important point is that they don't sell lower cost than their resellers, which is the case. Please find an hardware producer that sells directly to endusers, when they have also distributors/resellers. The way is: if you have resellers, sell through them. if not directly to end user. Reseller added value is find customers and retail locally in his place with local variables of config, ...etc. They are the ones to find customers and to make sure they bring added value. Yes of course. but they're sure that the customer will buy from them. normally the user will buy directly from the hw maker (and this's ok) if the hw maker allows that, since in this way the user thinks that going directly to the manufacturer they'll have better support and better price. I know that is can not be the real truth, but is how's perceived from an enduser pow. We're Digium resellers, but some .it people buy the card from other countries (because not imposing list prices allows resellers to do market dumping) or even direlcty from Digium. And we apply the very same Digium list price. and the import taxes are payed by our reseller discount. So when the enduser buys directly from .usa, they will pay list price plus taxes, so more than our final price. But this is not considered, seems. I don't know what's unusual in this approach? everything. Matteo ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Matteo Brancaleoni wrote: I hate to say that, but the problem is that Digium doesn't do this. They allow resellers to do market dumping, by not imposing fixed list prices to resellers, they also compete with they're own distributors/resellers by offering the cards online and by offering services directly to end users. In this way they're destroying they're own reseller network and there's no commercial gain into supporting the end user (as resellers). Resellers are almost universally a useless money-sink. Most add no value at all, they are simply another logistics point. Distributors, on the other hand, are usually very knowlegable and are able to support their customers (the resellers) quite well. My advice: always *always* buy from as early in the channel as possible. Prices are better and the support is _way_ better. Of course, if you are not familiar with the problem space for which you are purchasing a solution then resellers can add a lot of value. Peter ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
On Thu, 2005-04-07 at 13:26 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, Most hardware manufacturers I know sell directly at retail price. Most I know/dealt with don't (but hey, I don't really deal with 'hardware manufacturers'... I'm probably more of a retail customer In voip Business and from my experience, you can order Quintum gateways from Quintum Technologies right away at retail price. You can always get them cheaper from reseller. GSM devices manufacturers sell direct as well although they have resellers, unless exclusively agreed not to sell in that part of the world. For me it seems logical that manufacturer promote products themselves and sell them. Because resellers sometimes just don't react to sales leads. There is no reason why a manufacturer should lose these sales leads if reseller does not react. Well, I can see that the manufacturer could sell direct to the public, but this doesn't assist the reseller in better serving the end user. Digium could place certain restrictions on resellers, eg, each reseller is restricted to selling to customers living in the same country (or any other country which doesn't have a reseller in it). They might also increase the retail price (or decrease the reseller price) so that there is a bigger margin available to the reseller to cover the costs of support/warranty. Now, if customers go to Digium right away instead of coming to reseller even though reseller is better price and close with pieces in stock to be served immediately, I think it is not the distribution of Digium that has problem, but the customers :-) Yes, this is a 'stupid' customer, but consider that the consumer must be educated so that they can better help themselves. This is one of the fundamentals of the asterisk community! We need to provide the 'right' incentive to the consumer to shop from their 'local' reseller. Having said all that, I definitely don't like those annoying websites where you have to fill out some silly form and hope that your local reseller will call you one day. You should be able to browse all the products on-line, with retail pricelist. BTW, Consider if digium simply took the order, and then asked the reseller to fulfil the order, adding a credit for the card sold to the resellers account. Then the customer is sent their receipt along with the reseller contact details for order delivery enquiries/technical support. Finally, I must point out that I find the local Australian distributor fantastic, they have even tried to assist me in solving my problem with a TE405p that I purchased direct from digium (before the australian distributor existed). So, if you are in Australia, and need digium hardware, I'd strongly advise you talk to http://www.austechpartnerships.com/atp/ (no, I'm not employed by them, blah blah blah). Regards, Adam -- -- Adam Goryachev Website Managers Ph: +61 2 9345 4395[EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: +61 2 9345 4396www.websitemanagers.com.au ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Lol - Cisco for one. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matteo Brancaleoni Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 7:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium Hi, Il giorno gio, 07-04-2005 alle 13:02 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Digium do sell online and so many other of their resellers do. The important point is that they don't sell lower cost than their resellers, which is the case. Please find an hardware producer that sells directly to endusers, when they have also distributors/resellers. The way is: if you have resellers, sell through them. if not directly to end user. ) )snip ) Matteo ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
On Apr 7, 2005 6:20 AM, Matteo Brancaleoni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sangoma doesn't do that. they don't sell directly, thus allowing resellers to have a money gain and pay the time to support the end user. Actually, they do sell directly. I emailed them a short time ago, and they gave me their price. They also invited me to go visit their offices. I made it clear that I was an end user, and not a reseller. -- Dana ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Peter Svensson wrote: Resellers are almost universally a useless money-sink. Most add no value at all, they are simply another logistics point. Distributors, on the other hand, are usually very knowlegable and are able to support their customers (the resellers) quite well. My advice: always *always* buy from as early in the channel as possible. Prices are better and the support is _way_ better. Of course, if you are not familiar with the problem space for which you are purchasing a solution then resellers can add a lot of value. Peter Hi Peter- In my experience, I've found that the biggest advantage to buying through a distributor is the availability of stock, in-house and available for rapid shipment. Distributors typically handle dozens of lines and do not have the manpower to be technically up-to-date on all products. I agree with you though about buying as high up in the channel as possible. For a small company like Digium, it makes perfect sense for them to provide the hardware support for their products directly, as they are the only ones who can do so practically until they are of a size to develop the huge amount of training materials, spare parts kits etc to allow distributors to provide any kind of support to the customers. Unfortunately, the volumes are probably not really there yet to justify this. Digium needs to take a hard look at it's support and hardware documentation, as well as size of its engineering staff. It seems to me that they are at a point of growth where a significant investment is required to allow growth to the next level. Regards Scott Stingel www.evtmedia.com ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matteo, I don't know much about DIgium, but I am comparing the distribution policy with what exists elsewhere in the market and other sectors. Digium do sell online and so many other of their resellers do. The important point is that they don't sell lower cost than their resellers, which is the case. Reseller added value is find customers and retail locally in his place with local variables of config, ...etc. They are the ones to find customers and to make sure they bring added value. I don't know what's unusual in this approach? Please elaborate. maybe things have changed, but when i contacted an asterisk distributor, the reseller price they gave me wasn't worth the effort to support the card. so basically, i told the users to buy direct and have digium support it. (sad but true) ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
On Apr 7, 2005, at 4:11, Matteo Brancaleoni wrote: Please find an hardware producer that sells directly to endusers, when they have also distributors/resellers. Apple. The way is: if you have resellers, sell through them. if not directly to end user. Ever been to an Apple store? Thorsten ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
[rant] I wish my local reseller would 'dump' the product, or at least offer it cheaper without support. The digium PRI cards IMHO are way too expensive for those of us who are familiar with them and are only interested in warranty support. I will probably soon be buying another 5 of them and spending over $A10,000 in the process. The cards are more expensive than the server they're going into (Dell poweredge 750's). When a GPL'd hardware design costs more than an entire proprietary server (including chassis, motherboard, dual hard disks and remote access card) then there is something very wrong in the market. I do not possibly see how a quarter length PCI card should cost more than an entire rack mount server. IMHO bring on the competition, Asterisk should divorce itself from Digium, the sooner the better. Asterisk is a software product and should stand alone and not be subsidised by the hardware. Marks salary should come from selling trainig and Asterisk support services, not hardware. If Digium gets money from selling Digum hardware, where then is the incentive for Asterisk to support alternative hardware (BRI for example). Imagine if Linus was employed by Intel, Linux would only be an empty shell of its current self with no support for embedded platforms, Motorola CPU's, WRT54G's, etc. [/rant] Craig - Original Message - From: Peter Svensson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 7:43 PM Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Matteo Brancaleoni wrote: I hate to say that, but the problem is that Digium doesn't do this. They allow resellers to do market dumping, by not imposing fixed list prices to resellers, they also compete with they're own distributors/resellers by offering the cards online and by offering services directly to end users. In this way they're destroying they're own reseller network and there's no commercial gain into supporting the end user (as resellers). Resellers are almost universally a useless money-sink. Most add no value at all, they are simply another logistics point. Distributors, on the other hand, are usually very knowlegable and are able to support their customers (the resellers) quite well. My advice: always *always* buy from as early in the channel as possible. Prices are better and the support is _way_ better. Of course, if you are not familiar with the problem space for which you are purchasing a solution then resellers can add a lot of value. Peter ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
On April 7, 2005 01:53 pm, Craig Guy wrote: the server they're going into (Dell poweredge 750's). When a GPL'd hardware design costs more than an entire proprietary server (including chassis, motherboard, dual hard disks and remote access card) then there is something very wrong in the market. I do not possibly see how a quarter length PCI card should cost more than an entire rack mount server. IMHO First off, the TExxxP cards are not GPL. Second, it's all economies of scale. How many Dell Poweredge 750s does Dell sell a MONTH compared to how many TExxxPs Digium sells in a year? There's nothing wrong with it; Digium is charging what they believe the market will bear. That's capitalism. If you can do it cheaper, do it and make a fortune. I know MANY PCI boards which are upwards of several dozen thousand dollars. Again, they are charging what the market will bear. Now granted, high-end signal processing and acquisition cards are a slightly different market than what you're talking about. :-) -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
On April 7, 2005 01:53 pm, Craig Guy wrote: the server they're going into (Dell poweredge 750's). When a GPL'd hardware design costs more than an entire proprietary server (including chassis, motherboard, dual hard disks and remote access card) then there is something very wrong in the market. I do not possibly see how a quarter length PCI card should cost more than an entire rack mount server. IMHO First off, the TExxxP cards are not GPL. Second, it's all economies of scale. How many Dell Poweredge 750s does Dell sell a MONTH compared to how many TExxxPs Digium sells in a year? There's nothing wrong with it; Digium is charging what they believe the market will bear. That's capitalism. If you can do it cheaper, do it and make a fortune. I know MANY PCI boards which are upwards of several dozen thousand dollars. Again, they are charging what the market will bear. Now granted, high-end signal processing and acquisition cards are a slightly different market than what you're talking about. :-) Or, he could be stuck with a Nortel pbx where the T1 card is something like $5k, which doesn't include the software necessary to actually make the card do what he wants. ;) ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Hi; Just to a a little perspective. The closest equivalent Dialogic board (i.e. connects 4 T1's to a pci bus) is just under $7000 USD per board. Now while this isn't comparing apples to apples since the Dialogic board has more onboard processing services it does give a reference data point. The Digium board at just under $1500 USD looks quite good based on that comparison... Later; Tim On Apr 7, 2005, at 12:53 PM, Craig Guy wrote: [rant] I wish my local reseller would 'dump' the product, or at least offer it cheaper without support. The digium PRI cards IMHO are way too expensive for those of us who are familiar with them and are only interested in warranty support. I will probably soon be buying another 5 of them and spending over $A10,000 in the process. The cards are more expensive than the server they're going into (Dell poweredge 750's). When a GPL'd hardware design costs more than an entire proprietary server (including chassis, motherboard, dual hard disks and remote access card) then there is something very wrong in the market. I do not possibly see how a quarter length PCI card should cost more than an entire rack mount server. IMHO bring on the competition, Asterisk should divorce itself from Digium, the sooner the better. Asterisk is a software product and should stand alone and not be subsidised by the hardware. Marks salary should come from selling trainig and Asterisk support services, not hardware. If Digium gets money from selling Digum hardware, where then is the incentive for Asterisk to support alternative hardware (BRI for example). Imagine if Linus was employed by Intel, Linux would only be an empty shell of its current self with no support for embedded platforms, Motorola CPU's, WRT54G's, etc. [/rant] Craig - Original Message - From: Peter Svensson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 7:43 PM Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Matteo Brancaleoni wrote: I hate to say that, but the problem is that Digium doesn't do this. They allow resellers to do market dumping, by not imposing fixed list prices to resellers, they also compete with they're own distributors/resellers by offering the cards online and by offering services directly to end users. In this way they're destroying they're own reseller network and there's no commercial gain into supporting the end user (as resellers). Resellers are almost universally a useless money-sink. Most add no value at all, they are simply another logistics point. Distributors, on the other hand, are usually very knowlegable and are able to support their customers (the resellers) quite well. My advice: always *always* buy from as early in the channel as possible. Prices are better and the support is _way_ better. Of course, if you are not familiar with the problem space for which you are purchasing a solution then resellers can add a lot of value. Peter ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Matteo Brancaleoni wrote: I hate to say that, but the problem is that Digium doesn't do this. Ahh I beg to differ. I resell both Digium and Sangoma gear and provide full installation support for both. -- Cheers, Matt Riddell ___ http://www.sineapps.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News - html) http://www.sineapps.com/rssfeed.php (Daily Asterisk News - rss) ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Hi Il giorno ven, 08-04-2005 alle 10:24 +1200, Matt Riddell ha scritto: Matteo Brancaleoni wrote: I hate to say that, but the problem is that Digium doesn't do this. Ahh I beg to differ. I resell both Digium and Sangoma gear and provide full installation support for both. after a lot of words, the real story is that we too :) Matteo. -- ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
On 04/01/05 00:00 Matthew Boehm said the following: Steve Underwood wrote: And your EU bias is clearly demonstrated by this. I've never seen a BRI product outside he EU. :-) Come to Houston, TX. We were running a BRI for quite some time before upgrading to a T1. ahem, ISDN BRIs are fairly common here in asia too. but i guess that asia don't count now, does it ? :) -- Regards, /\_/\ All dogs go to heaven. [EMAIL PROTECTED](0 0)http://www.alphaque.com/ +==oOO--(_)--OOo==+ | for a in past present future; do| | for b in clients employers associates relatives neighbours pets; do | | echo The opinions here in no way reflect the opinions of my $a $b. | | done; done | +=+ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
BRI's are in use in roughly 2/3 of the world with the US and I think China being the main exceptions. On Apr 4, 2005 9:37 AM, Dinesh Nair [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 04/01/05 00:00 Matthew Boehm said the following: Steve Underwood wrote: And your EU bias is clearly demonstrated by this. I've never seen a BRI product outside he EU. :-) Come to Houston, TX. We were running a BRI for quite some time before upgrading to a T1. ahem, ISDN BRIs are fairly common here in asia too. but i guess that asia don't count now, does it ? :) -- Regards, /\_/\ All dogs go to heaven. [EMAIL PROTECTED](0 0)http://www.alphaque.com/ +==oOO--(_)--OOo==+ | for a in past present future; do| | for b in clients employers associates relatives neighbours pets; do | | echo The opinions here in no way reflect the opinions of my $a $b. | | done; done | +=+ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Michal Bielicki http://www.aefirion.org/ http://www.asterisk.com.pl/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
On Mar 31, 2005 1:44 PM, Dana Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:37:19 -0600, Rich Adamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My understanding is that to an extent when we buy Sangoma we're putting the dagger to Digium. If anything puts the dagger to Digium it'll be their own inability to engineer reliable hardware. I appreciate what Digium has done for Asterisk, but reliability expectations for phone equipment are extremely high. I sympathize with people who need hardware that doesn't need to be restarted once a week just to do its job properly. If Digium can't deliver on those reliability expectations, and do it soon, people are going to switch to companies that can. And you know what? I don't blame them. The Digium boards need to be restarted once a week? Please clarify this. I was dead set on getting in a Sangoma A104 for a production Asterisk box, but then I read this thread and felt that it didn't matter so much what I would order... And so I was deciding to stick with Digium. And then I read your scary comment. I've currently got a Digium board filled with 3 T1s, but it hasn't been under heavy use right yet, due to my attention being pulled from * and put onto SER+AudioCodes devices for other applications, and I haven't had to restart yet. Is this going to change? What's the deal? Please clarify your statement for me, as I need reliability as well. I'll jump in here (but I'm not the original poster). The once a week thing relates to the digium TDM card (fxo and/or fxs modules). I don't believe the T1 cards are an issue that requires driver reloads. Alright, that helps clarify it a bit, but then again, I have been running Asterisk at home with a TDM card for a couple months and haven't had to restart it for a long time. Is it a requirement or just simply a recomendation? I shouldn't have said anything. My incoming pots line stopped responding this weekend. I found out when I got an email from someone telling me that it just keeps ringing and ringing. This never happened before... Strange thing is though, today, my IAX number wasn't responding. It's like I'm silently losing my registration or something. Totally unrelated, I know. I'm gonna go back to 1.0.6 because I ran it for a good while with no problems. I hope this solves it. It fixed the issues I had with 1.0.7 at work. -- Dana ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Eric Wrote: Digium has a hardware echo can? Not shipping, according to their online store. Crap!, I spend all my time reading emails from this list, now I have to check Digium's online store twice a day so I can get my hands on one of those cards!! Chris. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
I have been told the Digium echo cancellation product will be shipping soon, as well as a new version of the IAXy, which looks to have a new form factor, I'm guessing to help with heat dissipation on the units. Cory Andrews Senior Partner +++ VOIPSupply.com A Subsidiary of b2 Technologies +++ voice - 800.398.VOIP X22 fax - 716.630.1548 email - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Chris Modesitt wrote: Eric Wrote: Digium has a hardware echo can? Not shipping, according to their online store. Crap!, I spend all my time reading emails from this list, now I have to check Digium's online store twice a day so I can get my hands on one of those cards!! Chris. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
-Original Message- From: Scott Nelson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Perhaps you have an earlier hardware revision than I do; I also have never rebooted the system. I have two TDM04Bs. If so, they must have sold me old stock. I bought the cards less than two months ago. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
David Brodbeck wrote: -Original Message- From: Scott Nelson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Perhaps you have an earlier hardware revision than I do; I also have never rebooted the system. I have two TDM04Bs. If so, they must have sold me old stock. I bought the cards less than two months ago. This is about the timeframe new FXO modules were released. Next time an FXO stops responding, stop asterisk and do a register dump of the offending module fxstest /dev/zap/1 regdump will show you the contents of all the registers on Zap 1. If the majority of them show the value ff, contact Digium support. I had modules marked Rev C that did this replaced with X100B RevB ones and have not had any trouble since. Regards, Richard ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Isamar Maia wrote: Technically speaking not. But Sangoma's support seems to be pretty much better. My understanding is that to an extent when we buy Sangoma we're putting the dagger to Digium. They're glad to use Asterisk as a selling point for their hardware, but unwilling to donate anything back to the Asterisk community. I'll be glad to stand corrected, but if that assertion is in fact true, we should be careful to do things that actually damage Digium's ability to leverage their development of Asterisk with their hardware sales. I don't understand this *love* for Digium. Digium is a commercial institution, period. If we need to be thankful for Mark Spencer for giving asterisk to the world as many say, I understand and agree. But to protect them specially in my case since I am in Japan and Digium products don't(and it seems that will never) have any support for NTT lines, is kinda no sense. I would better support the Asterisk Fork development that seems to be happening in the underground. BTW, anybody knows their mailing list? I'll be glad to contribute. Isamar Maia ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Isamar Maia wrote: I don't understand this *love* for Digium. Digium is a commercial institution, period. Yes, but. They are a commercial institution which took an enormous risk by giving away for free what is undeniably their most valuable product. It was a gamble, as it were, of the family jewels. Compare for a moment with Cisco, whose software, as is famously seen written up on this very list, nickels and dimes its customers to death. But to protect them specially in my case since I am in Japan and Digium products don't(and it seems that will never) have any support for NTT lines, is kinda no sense. The kinda sense of it is that many of us believe that we are furthering the cause of Asterisk development by indeed giving preferential treatment to Digium, in those cases where it can be done economically. It's an investment in the future of Asterisk. It's called voting with your pocketbook. I would better support the Asterisk Fork development that seems to be happening in the underground. BTW, anybody knows their mailing list? I'll be glad to contribute. I do know the address of one such list, and I monitor it assiduously, reading every message because my interest in Asterisk is pretty absolute. If I recall correctly, the last mail on that list was either the third or fourth mail that was sent, a couple of days after the list was established, back a couple of months. As far as I know nothing has happened, at all, since then. Forks are cheap. Talking about forks is even cheaper. Forks that appear to be actual improvements over the current Asterisk codebase--nothwithstanding the criticism it receives--appear to be, for now, a null set. I'm sorry you have trouble understanding this. I feel that for many of us it is pretty clear. Thanks. b. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Isamar Maia wrote: I don't understand this *love* for Digium. Digium is a commercial institution, period. Yes, but. They are a commercial institution which took an enormous risk by giving away for free what is undeniably their most valuable product. So, if Linus Torvalds had a company I would need to buy products from him? If they assumed this risk, great! I will remember to send a postcard in the Christmas to them. More hardware companies support Asterisk with Zap drivers, cheaper will be the boards, better quality will be provided and in the end of the day, the community will have all the benefits. The name of it is competition. Or it's a monopoly? Maybe Japan or other countries with own crazy standards are not a commercial interest of Digium like they are for Avaya, Dialogic, Aculab and stuff... the open and free competition should happen because the world is not USA and AFAIK it's GPL. I'm sorry you have trouble understanding this. I feel that for many of us it is pretty clear. Yes. I see. Very clear. Isamar ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
True. I think Digium's USA bias is clearly demonstrated by their lack of a BRI ISDN product. Most of the rest of the world use it in abudnace yet Digium do not see fit to service this market because it is not big in the US. very poor... On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:32:40 +0900 (JST), Isamar Maia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isamar Maia wrote: I don't understand this *love* for Digium. Digium is a commercial institution, period. Yes, but. They are a commercial institution which took an enormous risk by giving away for free what is undeniably their most valuable product. So, if Linus Torvalds had a company I would need to buy products from him? If they assumed this risk, great! I will remember to send a postcard in the Christmas to them. More hardware companies support Asterisk with Zap drivers, cheaper will be the boards, better quality will be provided and in the end of the day, the community will have all the benefits. The name of it is competition. Or it's a monopoly? Maybe Japan or other countries with own crazy standards are not a commercial interest of Digium like they are for Avaya, Dialogic, Aculab and stuff... the open and free competition should happen because the world is not USA and AFAIK it's GPL. I'm sorry you have trouble understanding this. I feel that for many of us it is pretty clear. Yes. I see. Very clear. Isamar ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Hello, I need to correct myself on one of the points I made in my reply last night. As a very polite developer from Sangoma stated to me(with evidence I might add)they have in the past and continue to today contribute code to GPL Asterisk. It doesn't say so on their website but their developers have been bug-checking, patching and contributing new code to Asterisk for some time now. They just started directly giving credit from Sangoma for some of these contributions in the bugtracker starting this week. While it is true that they probably don't have as many full-time dedicated Asterisk developers as Digium does, a portion of a Sangoma AFT card purchase will go towards further development of Asterisk. So you can feel a little less-bad about buying those Sangoma cards now. MATT--- -Original Message- From: Brian Capouch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:43 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium Isamar Maia wrote: Technically speaking not. But Sangoma's support seems to be pretty much better. My understanding is that to an extent when we buy Sangoma we're putting the dagger to Digium. They're glad to use Asterisk as a selling point for their hardware, but unwilling to donate anything back to the Asterisk community. I'll be glad to stand corrected, but if that assertion is in fact true, we should be careful to do things that actually damage Digium's ability to leverage their development of Asterisk with their hardware sales. FWIW. b. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
What about pricing of the Sangoma compared to Digium, is it comparable? Can Sangoma card handle modem data incoming calls at all? Selon mattf [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, I need to correct myself on one of the points I made in my reply last night. As a very polite developer from Sangoma stated to me(with evidence I might add)they have in the past and continue to today contribute code to GPL Asterisk. It doesn't say so on their website but their developers have been bug-checking, patching and contributing new code to Asterisk for some time now. They just started directly giving credit from Sangoma for some of these contributions in the bugtracker starting this week. While it is true that they probably don't have as many full-time dedicated Asterisk developers as Digium does, a portion of a Sangoma AFT card purchase will go towards further development of Asterisk. So you can feel a little less-bad about buying those Sangoma cards now. MATT--- -Original Message- From: Brian Capouch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:43 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium Isamar Maia wrote: Technically speaking not. But Sangoma's support seems to be pretty much better. My understanding is that to an extent when we buy Sangoma we're putting the dagger to Digium. They're glad to use Asterisk as a selling point for their hardware, but unwilling to donate anything back to the Asterisk community. I'll be glad to stand corrected, but if that assertion is in fact true, we should be careful to do things that actually damage Digium's ability to leverage their development of Asterisk with their hardware sales. FWIW. b. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
On Thursday 31 March 2005 02:43, Brian Capouch wrote: Isamar Maia wrote: Technically speaking not. But Sangoma's support seems to be pretty much better. My understanding is that to an extent when we buy Sangoma we're putting the dagger to Digium. They're glad to use Asterisk as a selling point for their hardware, but unwilling to donate anything back to the Asterisk community. It really does become an interesting debate. Do you lower your own ability to survive by using a lower quality product/service, to help ensure that the main product continues. Or do you help the main product survive by putting yourself at risk? For better or worse we are all also the effect of Digium's policies and decisions. Not to say that they have not done an outstanding job getting Asterisk to what it is. Likewise Digium is at the effect of what the community does. In the long run one needs to find a balance where everyone can win. Usually that is done by plain market influence. If they don't buy it, you won't be able to make it for very long. Indeed we all would be poorer if Digium could not continue the work. But so too, do they need to ensure that they are staying close to community needs, while making sure they DO make the right decisions. I think it's fair to say that Digium is more right than wrong, as their course have taken them this far. One does however need to reevaluate positions and directions every now and then, and be willing to change course should it so require. I'll be glad to stand corrected, but if that assertion is in fact true, we should be careful to do things that actually damage Digium's ability to leverage their development of Asterisk with their hardware sales. My view of Asterisk has made me put my money where my mouth is by betting the farm on Asterisk. I have put everything I have into a position of making a living with Asterisk, so I too depend on it to survive. But in the end I have to ensure that my decisions keep food on our table. Whether I choose Sangoma or Digium cards will be based on what I perceive to be the most long term survival thing to do. Of course, if I end up making a good business out of Sangoma and Asterisk, nothing will stop me from paying license fee's to Digium, which will be more profitable than selling me a card anyway. So I see that Digium should be making enough money from all of us, each contributing in a different way. In fact at this point Asterisk is poised to become a major influence in the market as people world wide is waking up to it's potential. -- Steve Szmidt They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
On March 30, 2005 10:26 pm, Kristian Kielhofner wrote: It is obvious that Asterisk/TDM support from Sangoma is (and has been) secondary. Their cards support data like no other. Excellent. Voice, on the other hand, appears to be immature. I respectfully disagree. Sangoma's voice capabilities are no less and no more mature than Digium's voice capabilities. I use cards from both Sangoma and Digium. Both seem to work well but (and it does pain me to say it, it really does) Digium's cards seem FAR more finicky about the type of hardware they'll run reliably on. Sangoma's cards you can pretty much throw into any system and they work. Shared interrupts and oddball PCI chipsets included. I do believe, however, that this is merely a driver issue. If I were a more competent driver programmer I would certainly dive into this headfirst. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Eric Bishop wrote: True. I think Digium's USA bias is clearly demonstrated by their lack of a BRI ISDN product. Most of the rest of the world use it in abudnace yet Digium do not see fit to service this market because it is not big in the US. very poor... Why on earth would Digium develop a ISDN BRI card while you can buy a HFC-S card that will work anywhere in Europe for less than 30 dollars? (The quad bri cards are overpriced, EUR 600 is just too much for such a simple card). That would be a waste of time and money better spent on other development. If you use bristuff and use the florz patch you have a very stable and solid product. (Bristuff without florz patch sucks, I really don't understand why the GPL'ed florz patch isn't included in bristuff by default). It would be nice if Digium would accept the bristuff patch at some stage and include it in asterisk. Regarding Sangoma vs. Digium cards, clearly Digium is providing a product at a very reasonable price (both the T1/E1 cards as well as * itself) and I really do not see any reason to not support them by buying Sangoma. Just my $0.02 :) ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
cpu load on te4xxp cards is very low, and now that they have echo cancellers as add-ons cards, it will be even lower. I can't speak on hardware compatibility as i never tried a sangoma card. (But i can say that in the last year i've never had an issue with digium cards and we have 8 in use.) The te405p card resolved most incompatibilty issues. /Z signature.asc Description: PGP signature signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
-Original Message- From: Brian Capouch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] My understanding is that to an extent when we buy Sangoma we're putting the dagger to Digium. If anything puts the dagger to Digium it'll be their own inability to engineer reliable hardware. I appreciate what Digium has done for Asterisk, but reliability expectations for phone equipment are extremely high. I sympathize with people who need hardware that doesn't need to be restarted once a week just to do its job properly. If Digium can't deliver on those reliability expectations, and do it soon, people are going to switch to companies that can. And you know what? I don't blame them. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
My understanding is that to an extent when we buy Sangoma we're putting the dagger to Digium. If anything puts the dagger to Digium it'll be their own inability to engineer reliable hardware. I appreciate what Digium has done for Asterisk, but reliability expectations for phone equipment are extremely high. I sympathize with people who need hardware that doesn't need to be restarted once a week just to do its job properly. If Digium can't deliver on those reliability expectations, and do it soon, people are going to switch to companies that can. And you know what? I don't blame them. I'll second that one for sure. Maybe someone can talk Sangoma into developing a competing TDM04b card? ;) ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Eric Bishop wrote: True. I think Digium's USA bias is clearly demonstrated by their lack of a BRI ISDN product. Most of the rest of the world use it in abudnace yet Digium do not see fit to service this market because it is not big in the US. very poor... And your EU bias is clearly demonstrated by this. I've never seen a BRI product outside he EU. :-) Regards, Steve ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Brian Capouch wrote: I'll be glad to stand corrected, but if that assertion is in fact true, we should be careful to do things that actually damage Digium's ability to leverage their development of Asterisk with their hardware sales. It sucks that its such a fine line. On the one had, it is good to have competition. Keeps prices in check, and gets new features out faster. But on the other hand, yes, buying from someone else may say to Digium well, I guess we can stop now that they are buying someone elses cards. -Matthew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Here's an idea, Digium buys Sangoma with the massive amounts of cash they are getting from venture capitalists and just integrate Sangoma designs into their boards. Not sure how Sangoma would feel about this idea though. MATT--- -Original Message- From: Matthew Boehm [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:30 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium Brian Capouch wrote: I'll be glad to stand corrected, but if that assertion is in fact true, we should be careful to do things that actually damage Digium's ability to leverage their development of Asterisk with their hardware sales. It sucks that its such a fine line. On the one had, it is good to have competition. Keeps prices in check, and gets new features out faster. But on the other hand, yes, buying from someone else may say to Digium well, I guess we can stop now that they are buying someone elses cards. -Matthew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Steve Underwood wrote: Eric Bishop wrote: True. I think Digium's USA bias is clearly demonstrated by their lack of a BRI ISDN product. Most of the rest of the world use it in abudnace yet Digium do not see fit to service this market because it is not big in the US. very poor... And your EU bias is clearly demonstrated by this. I've never seen a BRI product outside he EU. :-) Err - hello Steve. From Africa. With BRI. Steve ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
On March 31, 2005 10:17 am, Rich Adamson wrote: I'll second that one for sure. Maybe someone can talk Sangoma into developing a competing TDM04b card? ;) Actually I've found the TDM4XXP very good lately -- FXS and FXO. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
I didnt have to do a single restart in about 2 million calls on te4xpp so far. David Brodbeck wrote: -Original Message- From: Brian Capouch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] My understanding is that to an extent when we buy Sangoma we're putting the dagger to Digium. If anything puts the dagger to Digium it'll be their own inability to engineer reliable hardware. I appreciate what Digium has done for Asterisk, but reliability expectations for phone equipment are extremely high. I sympathize with people who need hardware that doesn't need to be restarted once a week just to do its job properly. If Digium can't deliver on those reliability expectations, and do it soon, people are going to switch to companies that can. And you know what? I don't blame them. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Steve Underwood wrote: And your EU bias is clearly demonstrated by this. I've never seen a BRI product outside he EU. :-) Come to Houston, TX. We were running a BRI for quite some time before upgrading to a T1. -Matthew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
I think the telecom market is so huge that it can easily support several hardware suppliers - and all of them can be successful if they make a good product. It can be good for Digium (and ultimately for us) that Sangoma is providing some competition, as it will drive Digium to new levels of performance and reliability. -Scott Stingel www.evtmedia.com Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: I respectfully disagree. Sangoma's voice capabilities are no less and no more mature than Digium's voice capabilities. I use cards from both Sangoma and Digium. Both seem to work well but (and it does pain me to say it, it really does) Digium's cards seem FAR more finicky about the type of hardware they'll run reliably on. Sangoma's cards you can pretty much throw into any system and they work. Shared interrupts and oddball PCI chipsets included. I do believe, however, that this is merely a driver issue. If I were a more competent driver programmer I would certainly dive into this headfirst. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users . ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
On Mar 31, 2005, at 8:01 AM, Zoa wrote: cpu load on te4xxp cards is very low, and now that they have echo cancellers as add-ons cards, it will be even lower. I can't speak on hardware compatibility as i never tried a sangoma card. (But i can say that in the last year i've never had an issue with digium cards and we have 8 in use.) The te405p card resolved most incompatibilty issues. Digium has a hardware echo can? ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Err - not in Australia at the moment but all of Australia uses ETSI - BRI Cheers, Dean -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:01 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Steve Underwood wrote: Eric Bishop wrote: True. I think Digium's USA bias is clearly demonstrated by their lack of a BRI ISDN product. Most of the rest of the world use it in abudnace yet Digium do not see fit to service this market because it is not big in the US. very poor... And your EU bias is clearly demonstrated by this. I've never seen a BRI product outside he EU. :-) Err - hello Steve. From Africa. With BRI. Steve ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:00:12 -0500, David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Brian Capouch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] My understanding is that to an extent when we buy Sangoma we're putting the dagger to Digium. If anything puts the dagger to Digium it'll be their own inability to engineer reliable hardware. I appreciate what Digium has done for Asterisk, but reliability expectations for phone equipment are extremely high. I sympathize with people who need hardware that doesn't need to be restarted once a week just to do its job properly. If Digium can't deliver on those reliability expectations, and do it soon, people are going to switch to companies that can. And you know what? I don't blame them. The Digium boards need to be restarted once a week? Please clarify this. I was dead set on getting in a Sangoma A104 for a production Asterisk box, but then I read this thread and felt that it didn't matter so much what I would order... And so I was deciding to stick with Digium. And then I read your scary comment. I've currently got a Digium board filled with 3 T1s, but it hasn't been under heavy use right yet, due to my attention being pulled from * and put onto SER+AudioCodes devices for other applications, and I haven't had to restart yet. Is this going to change? What's the deal? Please clarify your statement for me, as I need reliability as well. Thanks. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
-Original Message- From: Zoa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I didnt have to do a single restart in about 2 million calls on te4xpp so far. I'm happy for you. But my TDM04B will stop responding after about two weeks, even if there are zero calls during that time. I found that out when I set up my test server. Currently, I have a script that shuts down Asterisk once a week, unloads the modules, then reloads everything. That keeps things in line, but it's a band-aid, not a fix. Currently, if I were looking to buy any sort of phone card, TDM or otherwise, Digium would not be my first choice. I also could not, in good conscience, recommend their products to other people. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
On Thu, 2005-03-31 at 02:43 -0500, Brian Capouch wrote: My understanding is that to an extent when we buy Sangoma we're putting the dagger to Digium. Come on! If Digium started manufacturing tires, would i need to put 'em on my car to keep on the favorable side of karma? Digium makes telephony hardware that they sell on the open market. They also subsidize Asterisk development. If Digium finds itself unable to compete in an open market, do you believe Asterisk development would cease? Now, if another company makes hardware that they advertise as working with Asterisk, and that hardware is (hypothetically, of course, as I've never used Sangoma hardware) 1) better priced, and 2) functionally superior, does this not make Asterisk itself more accessible? As more integrators and developers are drawn to Asterisk, more and more subsidies will come to the development of Asterisk. By releasing the source to the community, Digium has ensured that the community can grow to the point where Asterisk development can sustain itself w/out worrying about the economic survival of any one particular business enterprise. I'll be glad to stand corrected, but if that assertion is in fact true, we should be careful to do things that actually damage Digium's ability to leverage their development of Asterisk with their hardware sales. If the point of buying Digium hardware is sentimental -- i.e. if you insist on paying Digium for your cards because you want to thank them for being nice and helping with Asterisk -- that's one thing (although, for all you know, there could be lots of really nice people working for Sangoma, too). If the assertion is that Asterisk will die w/out Digium, I, for one, think that's nonsense. Jeremy ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
On Thu, 2005-03-31 at 10:00 -0500, David Brodbeck wrote: -Original Message- From: Brian Capouch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] My understanding is that to an extent when we buy Sangoma we're putting the dagger to Digium. If anything puts the dagger to Digium it'll be their own inability to engineer reliable hardware. I appreciate what Digium has done for Asterisk, but reliability expectations for phone equipment are extremely high. I sympathize with people who need hardware that doesn't need to be restarted once a week just to do its job properly. If Digium can't deliver on those reliability expectations, and do it soon, people are going to switch to companies that can. And you know what? I don't blame them. Funny how I have 2 production machines that handle fairly large call loads without any stability issues. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
Remco Barende wrote: It would be nice if Digium would accept the bristuff patch at some stage and include it in asterisk. GPL code cannot go into the Asterisk distribution. Regards, Steve ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Sangoma VS. Digium
My understanding is that to an extent when we buy Sangoma we're putting the dagger to Digium. If anything puts the dagger to Digium it'll be their own inability to engineer reliable hardware. I appreciate what Digium has done for Asterisk, but reliability expectations for phone equipment are extremely high. I sympathize with people who need hardware that doesn't need to be restarted once a week just to do its job properly. If Digium can't deliver on those reliability expectations, and do it soon, people are going to switch to companies that can. And you know what? I don't blame them. The Digium boards need to be restarted once a week? Please clarify this. I was dead set on getting in a Sangoma A104 for a production Asterisk box, but then I read this thread and felt that it didn't matter so much what I would order... And so I was deciding to stick with Digium. And then I read your scary comment. I've currently got a Digium board filled with 3 T1s, but it hasn't been under heavy use right yet, due to my attention being pulled from * and put onto SER+AudioCodes devices for other applications, and I haven't had to restart yet. Is this going to change? What's the deal? Please clarify your statement for me, as I need reliability as well. I'll jump in here (but I'm not the original poster). The once a week thing relates to the digium TDM card (fxo and/or fxs modules). I don't believe the T1 cards are an issue that requires driver reloads. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
