[Audacity-translation] Would you consider to restart HomePage translation platform recently?

[mkpoli]

It seems the HomePage have got a big and beautiful renew. Would you
consider to support localization of the current version of website?
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Re: [Audacity-translation] (no subject)

[mkpoli]

I'm sorry I cannot speak French, but I will post google-translated text
following.

The translations of Audacity is built-in. You can download default version
of Audacity and find them from Menu: Edit -> Preferecens... -> Interface ->
Display -> Language and choose "francais".

Les traductions d'Audacity sont intégrées. Vous pouvez télécharger la
version par défaut d'Audacity et les trouver dans le menu: Edit ->
Preferecens... -> Interface -> Display -> Language et choisissez "francais".

2018年8月17日(金) 16:55 Claudine :

> Bonjour - pouvez-vous m'indiquer comment obtenir la version française de
> audacity ?  Je vous remercie
>
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Re: [Audacity-translation] Lisp formats are not C formats

[mkpoli]

POEdit is OK for it, although not helpful enough, at least it does not do
unnecessary stuff about lisp format.
2018年3月9日(金) 6:52 Yuri Chornoivan :

> четвер, 8 березня 2018 р. 23:40:27 EET Paul Licameli написано:
> > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:50 PM, Yuri Chornoivan  wrote:
> > > четвер, 8 березня 2018 р. 22:30:46 EET Paul Licameli написано:
> > > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:09 PM, Thomas De Rocker <
> > >
> > > thomasderoc...@outlook.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Paul
> > > > >
> > > > > First of all: the Dutch translations are completed on Transifex! 
> > > > >
> > > > > Second: my username on Transifex is RockyTDR, and I made the
> comment.
> > > > >
> > > > > What I meant is the following. Transifex "recognizes" html and some
> > >
> > > other
> > >
> > > > > tags. It allows translators to copy e.g. "* kind
> > > > > of
> > > > > "balloon".
> > > > >
> > > > > The problem is that Transifex treats some characters, or the order
> of
> > >
> > > some
> > >
> > > > > characters (*1%F* for example) as a "balloon". Translators are
> obliged
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > > > > use that same "balloon" in their translations. If not, it returns
> an
> > > > > error.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is what I mean (Transifex screenshot):
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In this case the "F" of "Frequency" is recognized as a tag. This
> can
> > > > > be
> > > > > solved by putting a space between characters, like this: "1% F".
> > > > >
> > > > > I hope this clears things. If you have any questions, i'd be happy
> to
> > > > > answer them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Thomas,
> > > >
> > > > I think Transifex is being "stupid" then about #, lisp-format and its
> > > > software needs an update.  Who should we complain to?
> > >
> > > Transifex online editor has very basic support even for C-formatted
> > > strings.
> > > It is not its main market.
> > >
> > > > Were you compelled to put the spaces in before your upload was
> accepted?
> > > > Yuri C., you too, for Ukrainian?
> > >
> > > I do not use Transifex online editor. And I did not add spaces myself.
> The
> > > catalog was translated offline with Lokalize then uploaded back with no
> > > reported problems.
> >
> > So then, there is a Transifex editor that is not smart about lisp-format,
> > but your upload of work done in another editor is not obstructed.  That
> is
> > good.
> >
> > > > If so, then maybe we should not rely on Transifex and you should
> send me
> > > > your updates either by email or by pull request at GitHub.
> >
> > So ignore that suggestion.
> >
> > > BTW, can somebody look at this PR?
> > >
> > > https://github.com/audacity/audacity/pull/261
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for your review.
> >
> > I see you fixed doubled spaces in a few places.
> >
> > I will take that, but then make minor updates to audacity.pot to reflect
> > that.  This will make your uk.po slightly out of date, as those two
> entries
> > will become fuzzy when you merge again, and you should fix that easily of
> > course.
>
> Thanks.
>
> > I recall about 13 strings still needed translations in uk.po besides, so
> I
> > will not simply fix uk.po myself.
>
> Actually, there is a complete translation on Transifex, but it does not
> matter. It is just a transient testing translation. The real translation
> will
> be submitted to the release I hope. ;)
>
> Yuri
>
> > > Best regards,
> > > Yuri
> > >
> > > > Or I can edit the few strings myself to remove the unnecessary
> spaces.
> > > >
> > > > By the way, Thomas, I also saw your question about the meaning of
> > > > "frequency bounds."  That string is part of an effect that cooperates
> > >
> > > with
> > >
> > > > the spectral selection feature, detailed at the link below.  The user
> > >
> > > sees
> > >
> > > > a rectangle in the spectrogram, which was upper and lower bounds.
> > > >
> > > > https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/spectral_selection.html
> > > >
> > > > PRL
> > > >
> > > > > Thomas De Rocker
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > *Van:* Paul Licameli 
> > > > > *Verzonden:* donderdag 8 maart 2018 20:20
> > > > > *Aan:* audacity-translation; Thomas De Rocker
> > > > > *Onderwerp:* Re: Lisp formats are not C formats
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 1:55 PM, Paul Licameli <
> paul.licam...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I got this notification from Transifex, forwarding a query from
> one of
> > > > > you, and not sure how to respond at that site, so I write to this
> > >
> > > mailing
> > >
> > > > > list:
> > > > >
> > > > > "
> > > > > Error:~%~%Frequency (~a Hz) is too high for track sample rate.~%~%~
> > >
> > > Track
> > >
> > > > > sample rate is ~a Hz~%~ Frequency must be less than ~a Hz.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1%F is recognized as placeholder - no problem for Dutch translation
> > > > > because "frequentie" (nl) starts with f like "frequency", 

[Audacity-translation] A problem about Chinese plural

[mkpoli]

As I am translating

single: Enable this plug-in?
plural: Enable these plug-ins?

Although there is no different noun plural forms in Chinese, there is
actually different forms as determiner:

single: 启用这个插件吗？
plural: 启用这些插件吗？

And I can't find a way to avoid this problem. I chose use the plural form
for now.
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Re: [Audacity-translation] Updated audacity.pot

[mkpoli]

I have just settled in Tokyo, Japan. I won’t have Internet connection for
my computer until at least Jan. 8th. So I can only update the translation
later.

I remembered I have done an pull request to fix a small mistake of zh
translation
on GitHub. It is likely not merged.
2018年1月5日(金) 14:42 Paul Licameli :

> UPDATE:  I fixed some mistakes.
>
> See
> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/audacity/audacity/c66eae1a46210be0bde04a90d72301ada3aa24c3/locale/audacity.pot
>
> I have made more uses of wxPLURAL than before, but I used it incorrectly
> so that msgid_plural lines were absent from the previous version of
> audacity.pot.
>
> Besides that, I also found that it is hard to attach i18n-hint comments to
> wxPLURAL so that the comments go to audacity.pot.  I found a workaround
> that creates a few dummy string entries that you don't need to translate,
> which each immediately precede the entry to which the comment really
> applies.
>
> PRL
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 8:11 PM, Paul Licameli 
> wrote:
>
>> Find it here:
>> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/audacity/audacity/d5dca050bd7e124a9634752574e7e7dd69dec263/locale/audacity.pot
>>
>> This is NOT the string freeze for version 2.2.2.  But enough string
>> changes have accumulated that I want translators to have the opportunity to
>> do advance work.
>>
>> In particular I have identified many places where there was English
>> grammar bias in the programming, and corrected that, but that means that
>> many slightly changed msgids in the .pot are only fuzzy matches for your
>> .po files now.
>>
>> The best translations were 100% complete for 2.2.1, but that has decayed
>> to 95%.
>>
>> I hope that fixing this will likewise invole numerous but mostly slight
>> changes that are easy.  Though there are also some completely new messages.
>>
>> PRL
>>
>> P. S. I have also made the changes so that the menu of languages in
>> Interface preferences shows the self-names of all languages.  You need do
>> nothing there, unless to correct the strings, which I shared in an earlier
>> email.  I mention it again, because if you know how to build Audacity from
>> source, you might enjoy looking at it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Audacity-translation] Showing self-names of languages in preferences

[mkpoli]

Totally same.

In fact the one with parentheses is better for sorting.

2018年1月5日(金) 14:06 Paul Licameli <paul.licam...@gmail.com>:

> On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 11:52 PM, mkpoli <snowwolf1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> zh_CN 简体中文
>> zh_TW 繁體中文
>>
>> Use them above.
>>
>
> Thanks.  I got some help already from another Chinese friend and had
> updated it to:
>
> zh_CN 中文（简体）
> zh_TW 中文（繁體）
>
> Is that also acceptable?
>
> PRL
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> They are conventional, because CN
>>  has most users in Simplified Script, TW
>> has most users in Traditional Script and the difference in each is not
>> quite apparent.
>>
>> 2018年1月1日(月) 10:43 <treb...@tuxfamily.org>:
>>
>>> Thanks Paul.
>>> All good for the French one.
>>>
>>> I wish everyone a happy new year to you and yours.
>>> Olivier
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 2018-01-01 01:50, Paul Licameli a écrit :
>>> > For the next version of Audacity, I am working on the task of making
>>> > Preferences consistently show the self-names of available languages
>>> > instead of the inconsistent thing we now have, sometimes a self-name
>>> > and sometimes the English name.
>>> >
>>> > Here is the list I have prepared, with a little bit of internet
>>> > research.  Please suggest any corrections.  Also, mkpoli, please help
>>> > me: I don't know the right way to distinguish the two Chinese locales.
>>> >
>>> > There are 56 locales that had some degree of translation effort at
>>> > some time, though some of these are very out of date now and should
>>> > perhaps be hidden as real choices until they are much improved again.
>>> >
>>> > PRL
>>> >
>>> > af Afrikaans
>>> > ar العربية
>>> > be Беларуская
>>> > bg Български
>>> > bn বাংলা
>>> > bs Bosanski
>>> > ca Català
>>> > ca_ES@valencia Valencià
>>> > cs Čeština
>>> > cy Cymraeg
>>> > da Dansk
>>> > de Deutsch
>>> > el Ελληνικά
>>> > en English
>>> > es Español
>>> > eu  Euskara
>>> > eu_ES Euskara (Espainiako)
>>> > fa فارسی
>>> > fi Suomi
>>> > fr Français
>>> > ga Gaeilge
>>> > gl Galego
>>> > he עברית
>>> > hi हिन्दी
>>> > hr Hrvatski
>>> > hu Magyar
>>> > hy Հայերեն
>>> > id Bahasa Indonesia
>>> > it Italiano
>>> > ja 日本語
>>> > ka ქართული
>>> > km ខេមរភាសា
>>> > ko 한국어
>>> > lt Lietuvių
>>> > mk Македонски
>>> > my မြန်မာစာ
>>> > nb Norsk
>>> > nl Nederlands
>>> > oc Occitan
>>> > pl Polski
>>> > pt Português
>>> > pt_BR Português (Brasil)
>>> > ro Română
>>> > ru Русский
>>> > sk Slovenčina
>>> > sl Slovenščina
>>> > sr_RS Српски
>>> > sr_RS@latin Srpski
>>> > sv Svenska
>>> > ta தமிழ்
>>> > tg Тоҷикӣ
>>> > tr Türkçe
>>> > uk Українська
>>> > vi Tiếng Việt
>>> > zh_CN 中文
>>> > zh_TW 中文
>>> >
>>> --
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>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [Audacity-translation] Showing self-names of languages in preferences

[mkpoli]

zh_CN 简体中文
zh_TW 繁體中文

Use them above.


They are conventional, because CN
 has most users in Simplified Script, TW
has most users in Traditional Script and the difference in each is not
quite apparent.

2018年1月1日(月) 10:43 <treb...@tuxfamily.org>:

> Thanks Paul.
> All good for the French one.
>
> I wish everyone a happy new year to you and yours.
> Olivier
>
>
> Le 2018-01-01 01:50, Paul Licameli a écrit :
> > For the next version of Audacity, I am working on the task of making
> > Preferences consistently show the self-names of available languages
> > instead of the inconsistent thing we now have, sometimes a self-name
> > and sometimes the English name.
> >
> > Here is the list I have prepared, with a little bit of internet
> > research.  Please suggest any corrections.  Also, mkpoli, please help
> > me: I don't know the right way to distinguish the two Chinese locales.
> >
> > There are 56 locales that had some degree of translation effort at
> > some time, though some of these are very out of date now and should
> > perhaps be hidden as real choices until they are much improved again.
> >
> > PRL
> >
> > af Afrikaans
> > ar العربية
> > be Беларуская
> > bg Български
> > bn বাংলা
> > bs Bosanski
> > ca Català
> > ca_ES@valencia Valencià
> > cs Čeština
> > cy Cymraeg
> > da Dansk
> > de Deutsch
> > el Ελληνικά
> > en English
> > es Español
> > eu  Euskara
> > eu_ES Euskara (Espainiako)
> > fa فارسی
> > fi Suomi
> > fr Français
> > ga Gaeilge
> > gl Galego
> > he עברית
> > hi हिन्दी
> > hr Hrvatski
> > hu Magyar
> > hy Հայերեն
> > id Bahasa Indonesia
> > it Italiano
> > ja 日本語
> > ka ქართული
> > km ខេមរភាសា
> > ko 한국어
> > lt Lietuvių
> > mk Македонски
> > my မြန်မာစာ
> > nb Norsk
> > nl Nederlands
> > oc Occitan
> > pl Polski
> > pt Português
> > pt_BR Português (Brasil)
> > ro Română
> > ru Русский
> > sk Slovenčina
> > sl Slovenščina
> > sr_RS Српски
> > sr_RS@latin Srpski
> > sv Svenska
> > ta தமிழ்
> > tg Тоҷикӣ
> > tr Türkçe
> > uk Українська
> > vi Tiếng Việt
> > zh_CN 中文
> > zh_TW 中文
> >
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[Audacity-translation] About definition of "free" in Audacity FAQ

[mkpoli]

In this section below in Audacity FAQ

Is Audacity really free? Why?[edit

]

Yes, Audacity is completely free
, open source software
. You are free to use this application
for any personal, commercial, or educational purposes, including installing
it on as many different computers as you wish. You are also free to give it
away, sell it, or modify it for your own use, under the terms of the GNU
General Public License .

The authors of Audacity decided to release it under the GPL for many
reasons. Some of us do it out of generosity. Some of us do it for moral
reasons, because we feel that all software should be free; others believe
that there is a place for both free and proprietary software.

One reason Audacity is free is so that it will be more popular and useful.
Yet another reason is to encourage collaboration. Because of Audacity's
free license, dozens of people around the world have contributed code, bug
fixes, documentation, and graphics.

We welcome donations  to support
Audacity development.


What is the meaning of blued "free" here? Which meaning of it is insisted,
gratis or at liberty? FYI, I noticed that the French translation is both
"gratuit" (gratis), hr translation is besplatan (no-paying), zh translation
is both 免费(not-needed fee) here.
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[Audacity-translation] About "Information" page in Windows Installer

[mkpoli]

I noticed that there is no translation for the text in the "Information"
page of Windows Installer. What about providing a way to translate it?
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[Audacity-translation] What is the meaning of STEPs in Noise Reduction?

[mkpoli]

I've read the manual but I'm still confusing.

http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/noise_reduction.html

In following strings:

"Steps per block are too few for the window types."
"Steps per block cannot exceed the window size."
"Median method is not implemented for more than four steps per window."
"You must specify the same window size for steps 1 and 2."

Is the step meaning in an action in a series in order to deal with a
particular thing, or some musical term?
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Re: [Audacity-translation] I am currently working on zh_TW

[mkpoli]

Maybe the best timing to send the zh_TW is after 2.2.1 Release and before
first merge for 2.2.2 or I can just put it up after finished?

 于 2017年11月30日周四 20:26写道：

> Le 2017-11-30 12:28, Paul Licameli a écrit :
> > I think too that audacity.pot should be updated more regularly, so
> > that translators, including the less frequently active ones, are more
> > likely to contribute useful updates during the release cycle, and we
> > are more likely to get mostly complete versions for more locales.
>
> +1, really good idea
>
> Olivier
>
>
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[Audacity-translation] I am currently working on zh_TW

[mkpoli]

This email is in case of duplicated work (well, I guess that is
impossible). 73% completed at present. I will send it up here later.
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[Audacity-translation] Uncleared meaning of "Left/Right at Playback Position"

[mkpoli]

I have finally found out the meaning of "Left/Right at Playback Position".
For example, "Left at Playback Position" has two types of actions. When
playing or recording, it left current playback position be the **LEFT**
boundary of the potential selection, waiting for "Right at Playback
Position" to close it. When no audio playing or recording, it let the
current cursor position as **RIGHT* *boundary and opens a dialog to decide
left boundary. Here problem comes.

I'm confused on "Left at Playback Position". It is kind of mixed IMO,
mixing "(Set) Left (Boundary) at Playback Position" and "(Set Boundary at)
Left to Cursor Position".

In my predecessors' translation in Chinese (Simplified & Traditional), they
left something meaning "at Left-end(maybe meaning some point at left)
at(from) Playback Position" (在回放位置左端), it is not clear as well as in
English (I wonder if it is true in English). As a user, I was confused in
both language versions until I've read the manual.

If it is a real problem, I suggest using something like "Set Selection
Starting"/"Set Selection Ending" while turning the action in
no-audio-playing mode so that it can be understood and translated easier.

(OK not for 2.2.1 again)
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Re: [Audacity-translation] Help translating strings in the Windows installer

[mkpoli]

No, the translation list here make sense although it can be better to sync
with the translation of itself.

I think this could be an encoding problem.

--

Most of them are good.

In option manner (or a voice? mood? way to say?, which I recommend, same as
current English version)
zh_CN.ResetPrefs=重置偏好设置
zh_TW.ResetPrefs=重置偏好設定
ja=設定をリセットする

In question manner (which may cause inconsistency and confusing):
zh_CN.ResetPrefs=是否重置偏好设置？
zh_TW.ResetPrefs=是否重置偏好設定？
ja=設定をリセットしますか?

Here notice that Japanese using different level of honorifics here, which
is different from other option. So I highly disrecommend it in question
manner.

-

Interestingly, the items in the language combo box is different every
startup (maybe?) and different while system language is changed (try Local
Emulator (recommended), AppLocale or similar softwares). If I use zh_CN
system language there is no Japanese but Korean and like 10 langauges. If I
use ja system language there is no Chinese but Korean and like 15
langauges. Totally no idea why and how.

-

Btw, Japanese language is also facing that problem as I mentioned before.
[image: snipaste_20171126_202623.png]


Paul Licameli <paul.licam...@gmail.com>于2017年11月26日周日 下午12:13写道：

> Thanks to mkpoli for alerting me to a bad translation into Chinese in the
> Windows installer program.
>
> The source for this installer is the file win/audacity.iss
>
> I understand that mostly it fetches some standardized messages for various
> locales that are part of the innosetup distribution, but you can also see
> one custom string for Audacity with translations at the end of the file.
> Please verify that a translation for your language is present and correct.
>  mkpoli, are these the same nonsense Chinese that you saw when running the
> program?  (And is the Japanese good too?)
>
> PRL
>
>
> af.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> ar.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> be.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> bg.ResetPrefs=Да се нулират ли настройките?
> bn.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> bs.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> ca.ResetPrefs=Voleu restablir les preferències?
> ca_ES0valencia.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> ;co.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> cs.ResetPrefs=Vynulovat nastavení?
> cy.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> da.ResetPrefs=Gendan indstillinger?
> de.ResetPrefs=Einstellungen zurücksetzen?
> el.ResetPrefs=Επαναφορά προτιμήσεων;
> en.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> es.ResetPrefs=¿Desea restablecer las preferencias?
> eu.ResetPrefs=Berrezarri Hobespenak?
> fa.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> fi.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> fr.ResetPrefs=Réinitialiser les  Préférences ?
> ga.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> gl.ResetPrefs=Restabelecer as preferencias?
> he.ResetPrefs=?אתה רוצה לשחזר העדפות
> hi.ResetPrefs=वरीयताएँ रीसेट करें?
> hr.ResetPrefs=Resetirati Postavke?
> hu.ResetPrefs=Alapra állítja a beállításokat?
> hy.ResetPrefs=Վերափոխե՞լ կարգավորումները:
> id.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> it.ResetPrefs=Ripristino Preferenze?
> ja.ResetPrefs=設定をリセットしますか?
> ka.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> km.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> ko.ResetPrefs=기본 설정을 재설정하시겠습니까?
> lt.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> mk.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> my.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> nb.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> ;ne.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> nl.ResetPrefs=Voorkeuren herstellen?
> oc.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> pl.ResetPrefs=Zresetować ustawienia?
> pt_PT.ResetPrefs=Reconfigurar as Preferências?
> pt_BR.ResetPrefs=Redefinir Preferências?
> ro.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> ru.ResetPrefs=Сбросить Параметры?
> sk.ResetPrefs=Obnoviť nastavenia?
> sl.ResetPrefs=Želite ponastaviti možnosti?
> sr_RS.ResetPrefs=Да вратим на старе поставке?
> sr_RS0latin.ResetPrefs=Da vratim na stare postavke?
> sv.ResetPrefs=Återställ inställningar?
> ta.ResetPrefs="விருப்பங்களை மீட்டமைக்க?
> tg.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> tr.ResetPrefs=Ayarlar Sıfırlansın mı?
> uk.ResetPrefs=Відновити початкові значення параметрів?
> vi.ResetPrefs=Reset Preferences
> zh_CN.ResetPrefs=重置配置吗？
> zh_TW.ResetPrefs=是否重設偏好設定？
>
>
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[Audacity-translation] A problem about language name in Preferences

[mkpoli]

I recently noticed that language *ja *is using the romanized autoglossonym
"Nihongo" in the combo box, rather than the English name for it "Japanese".
I also found "Suomi", "Svenska" ,"Russky", "Francais" and "Ellinika". The
are all anglicized romanization of autoglossonym of that language. I think
it is not clear at all especially for languages not using Latin script
(even worse if using non-phonemic writing system, e.g. at least Ellinika
can (nearly) one-to-one correspond to Ελληνικά), and it is also not
consistent since Chinese, Korean and some other languages are in English
name.

It would probably cause confusion in finding the desired language.

I disagree using English name for languages, it is also not that easy. I
think at least language combo box should contain autoglossonym.

English name + autoglossonym (Preferable):
Chinese (Simplified)  简体中文
Chinese (Traditional) 繁體中文
Japanese  日本語
Finnish   Suomi
autoglossonym only (Preferable):
 简体中文
繁体中文
日本语
Suomi
English name only (Not good):
Chinese (Simplified)
Chinese (Traditional)
Japanese
Finnish
current (Worse):
Chinese (Simplified)
Chinese (Traditional)
Nihongo
Suomi
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Re: [Audacity-translation] Menu item "Export"/"" in 2.2.1 rc1

[mkpoli]

BTW, not about translation, note for 2.2.2+:
"Save Other" has been changed to "Export", but "Save Compressed Copy of
Project..." is still there, maybe it is better to be out of "Export"
sub-menu?

mkpoli <snowwolf1...@gmail.com>于2017年11月26日周日 下午7:29写道：

> That would like to be currently best possible choice here.
>
> --
> As a remark, it will be more inconsistent in *ja*, *kr* and *zh*.
>
>  = 导出()
> Export = 导出
>
> () is really an obvious part.
>
> Paul Licameli <paul.licam...@gmail.com>于2017年11月26日周日 上午11:59写道：
>
>> On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 6:48 PM, mkpoli <snowwolf1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> As comments here in the block surrounded by brackets:
>>> https://github.com/audacity/audacity/blob/master/src/Menus.cpp#L335
>>>
>>> {
>>> auto lang = gPrefs->Read(wxT("/Locale/Language"), wxT(""));
>>> if (lang.empty() || lang.Left(2) == wxT("en"))
>>> // PRL: last-minute improved message for 2.2.1 RC1, English only.
>>> c->BeginSubMenu( _("") );
>>> else
>>> // This string was already in catalogs for 2.2.0
>>> // So the translation may still replace "Save Other"
>>> // But translation will have no accelerator.
>>> c->BeginSubMenu( _("Export") );
>>> }
>>>
>>>
>>> This is a last-minute improvement here, so maybe it is not a problem?
>>>
>>> #: src/export/ExportCL.cpp src/export/ExportMultiple.cpp
>>> msgid "Export"
>>> msgstr "导出"
>>>
>>> The actual result shows that the menu item is using that translation
>>> shown before.
>>>
>>> Maybe next version of Audacity 2.2.1 pot file will add msgid ""?
>>>
>>
>> That was exactly my intention for the start of 2.2.2.  The addition of
>> _("") in the source code came after I had decided to freeze the .pot
>> file.  I wasn't sure that those who updated before then would all fix their
>> .po files again just for one new msgid that added the & character,
>> requiring a separate translation.
>>
>> As the source code is now, this menu item will translate if "Export"
>> without & is translated, though without an accelerator key.  If I had not
>> made that little hack, English "Export" would be the menu item in all
>> locales.
>>
>> PRL
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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Re: [Audacity-translation] Menu item "Export"/"" in 2.2.1 rc1

[mkpoli]

That would like to be currently best possible choice here.

--
As a remark, it will be more inconsistent in *ja*, *kr* and *zh*.

 = 导出()
Export = 导出

() is really an obvious part.

Paul Licameli <paul.licam...@gmail.com>于2017年11月26日周日 上午11:59写道：

> On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 6:48 PM, mkpoli <snowwolf1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As comments here in the block surrounded by brackets:
>> https://github.com/audacity/audacity/blob/master/src/Menus.cpp#L335
>>
>> {
>> auto lang = gPrefs->Read(wxT("/Locale/Language"), wxT(""));
>> if (lang.empty() || lang.Left(2) == wxT("en"))
>> // PRL: last-minute improved message for 2.2.1 RC1, English only.
>> c->BeginSubMenu( _("") );
>> else
>> // This string was already in catalogs for 2.2.0
>> // So the translation may still replace "Save Other"
>> // But translation will have no accelerator.
>> c->BeginSubMenu( _("Export") );
>> }
>>
>>
>> This is a last-minute improvement here, so maybe it is not a problem?
>>
>> #: src/export/ExportCL.cpp src/export/ExportMultiple.cpp
>> msgid "Export"
>> msgstr "导出"
>>
>> The actual result shows that the menu item is using that translation
>> shown before.
>>
>> Maybe next version of Audacity 2.2.1 pot file will add msgid ""?
>>
>
> That was exactly my intention for the start of 2.2.2.  The addition of
> _("") in the source code came after I had decided to freeze the .pot
> file.  I wasn't sure that those who updated before then would all fix their
> .po files again just for one new msgid that added the & character,
> requiring a separate translation.
>
> As the source code is now, this menu item will translate if "Export"
> without & is translated, though without an accelerator key.  If I had not
> made that little hack, English "Export" would be the menu item in all
> locales.
>
> PRL
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>
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[Audacity-translation] Menu item "Export"/"" in 2.2.1 rc1

[mkpoli]

As comments here in the block surrounded by brackets:
https://github.com/audacity/audacity/blob/master/src/Menus.cpp#L335

{
auto lang = gPrefs->Read(wxT("/Locale/Language"), wxT(""));
if (lang.empty() || lang.Left(2) == wxT("en"))
// PRL: last-minute improved message for 2.2.1 RC1, English only.
c->BeginSubMenu( _("") );
else
// This string was already in catalogs for 2.2.0
// So the translation may still replace "Save Other"
// But translation will have no accelerator.
c->BeginSubMenu( _("Export") );
}


This is a last-minute improvement here, so maybe it is not a problem?

#: src/export/ExportCL.cpp src/export/ExportMultiple.cpp
msgid "Export"
msgstr "导出"

The actual result shows that the menu item is using that translation shown
before.

Maybe next version of Audacity 2.2.1 pot file will add msgid ""?
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Re: [Audacity-translation] About .desktop file

[mkpoli]

I am a native *zh_CN *user and a fluent *ja *user. And I confirmed *zh_TW *with
a *zh_TW *user.

GenericName[zh_CN]=音频编辑器
GenericName[zh_TW]=音訊編輯器
GenericName[ja]=オーディオエディタ

Comment[zh_CN]=录音和编辑音频文件
Comment[zh_TW]=錄音和編輯音訊檔案
Comment[ja]=録音とオーディオ編集

Paul Licameli <paul.licam...@gmail.com>于2017年11月20日周一 上午9:45写道：

> mkpoli,  I don't see your pull request.  You can send me a link, or just
> email me the two lines to add to audacity.desktop.in and I can just copy
> and paste.
>
> PRL
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 3:58 PM, mkpoli <snowwolf1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I've sent a pull request in GitHub of the addition to .desktop file
>>
>> mkpoli <snowwolf1...@gmail.com>于2017年11月8日周三 上午4:43写道：
>>
>>> Thank you very much.
>>> It helps.
>>>
>>> Yuri Chornoivan <yurc...@ukr.net>于2017年11月8日周三 上午4:35写道：
>>>
>>>> вівторок, 7 листопада 2017 р. 22:29:01 EET mkpoli написано:
>>>> > Which code should be gotten into .desktop file?
>>>> > Chinese languages in ISO 639 is a macrolanguage.
>>>> > zh is the code for it.
>>>> > But there is zh-Hant for traditional script used in TW, HK, MO, and
>>>> zh-Hans
>>>> > simplified script used in mainland.
>>>> > zh-cn, zh-tw, zh-hk for regional separated codes.
>>>> > (and even zh-cmn, zh-gan for language-specified codes, but
>>>> apparently
>>>> > that type of codes are not used often)
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm wondering which part uses that code, what is the standard of it
>>>> and is
>>>> > it same as Audacity itself's translation.
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> It is mostly for the Linux desktops.
>>>>
>>>> The most usable Chinese codes are zh_CN (for Simplified) and zh_TW (for
>>>> Traditional).
>>>>
>>>> The standard is as follows:
>>>>
>>>> https://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s04.html
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Yuri
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>
>>
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>
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Re: [Audacity-translation] 20 Fuzzy strings in Chinese zh_CN.po

[mkpoli]

I'm sorry for my late reply. I was busy those days.

I didn't know that fuzzy will not be translated.

I'm not in doubt about the meanings of those strings. Those strings are
capable for use. But there was something that made me hesitated: Some of
the old translation not by me that left the English text in parentheses as
remark (maybe?), I was considering delete it or reserve it. And the other
of them is some things that may be needed to be pondered again.

Paul Licameli <paul.licam...@gmail.com>于2017年11月20日周一 上午6:58写道：

> mkpoli,
>
> When I take your latest version of zh_CN.po and do this at command line:
>
> msgcmp zh_CN.po audacity.pot
>
> ... then I get 20 errors about strings marked fuzzy.
>
> Was this intentional?  Were you in doubt about some meanings?
>
> msgcmp tells me the strings will not be translated.  I can manuall remove
> those fuzzy directives before I push it to GitHub.
>
> PRL
>
>
>
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Re: [Audacity-translation] Marking languages as national flags is not good

[mkpoli]

There is a try.

https://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Template:I18n_box


mkpoli <snowwolf1...@gmail.com>于2017年11月10日周五 上午6:01写道：

> This is an issue found when I'm translating FAQ.
>
> *Apparently, languages, scripts and nations are not one-to-one
> corresponding.*
> e.g
>
>1. 23 languages in India.
>2. Simplified Chinese (script) in Standard Mandarin (Putonghua,
>language) in mainland China
>3. Traditional Chinese (script) in Standard Mandarin (Guoyu, language)
>in Taiwan
>
> So if mark a language as a national flag, it will risk confusing and
> potential political problems.
>
> *Should Audacity provide country-specified contents, so that it can use
> flags?*
> I don't think so. Audacity is a tool that can be used around the world
> with no (or maybe a little?) confusion by area.
>
> *What about marking them in English, like English, German, Chinese
> (Simplified), Hebrewetc.?*
> It's better than flags, but not best, since:
>
>1. If there is someone finding difficulty reading English, they may
>also have problems finding the English names of their language,
>2. It's unnecessary for an English speaker to know about those words,
>if they want, they can go to Wikipedia.
>3. It's unnecessary for a developer. They can draw an image of
>multilingual stats by looking at codes and file structure.
>
> *What is the best practice?*
> See those links:
>
>1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
>2.
>
> http://www.flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog/best-practice-for-presenting-languages/
>
> *How-to, or my advice.*
> In Audacity wiki, current multilingual system is using links to the page
> as flags, like this
>
>- [[Image:Flag_of_Croatia_small.png‎|link=FAQ:About Audacity/hr|ČP:O
>Audacityju]]
>- [[Image:FrenchFlagSmall.png|link=FAQ:About Audacity/fr|FAQ : À
>propos d'Audacity]]
>- [[Image:Flag of Germany small.png|link=FAQ:About
>Audacity/de|FAQ:Über Audacity]]
>- [[Image:Flag_of_italy_small.png‎|link=FAQ:About
>Audacity/it|FAQ:Circa Audacity]]
>- [[Image:Flag_of_Portugal_small.png|link=FAQ:About
>Audacity/pt|FAQ:Sobre o Audacity]]
>- [[Image:Flag of Spain small.png|link=FAQ:About Audacity/es|FAQ:Sobre
>Audacity]]
>- [[Image:Flag of China small.png|link=FAQ:About
>Audacity/zh_CN|FAQ:About Audacity]]
>
> I think it is possible to batch processed to local names, directly.
> Maybe something like a box like in Mediawiki (link:
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:About).
>
> Regards,
>
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[Audacity-translation] Marking languages as national flags is not good

[mkpoli]

This is an issue found when I'm translating FAQ.

*Apparently, languages, scripts and nations are not one-to-one
corresponding.*
e.g

   1. 23 languages in India.
   2. Simplified Chinese (script) in Standard Mandarin (Putonghua,
   language) in mainland China
   3. Traditional Chinese (script) in Standard Mandarin (Guoyu, language)
   in Taiwan

So if mark a language as a national flag, it will risk confusing and
potential political problems.

*Should Audacity provide country-specified contents, so that it can use
flags?*
I don't think so. Audacity is a tool that can be used around the world with
no (or maybe a little?) confusion by area.

*What about marking them in English, like English, German, Chinese
(Simplified), Hebrewetc.?*
It's better than flags, but not best, since:

   1. If there is someone finding difficulty reading English, they may also
   have problems finding the English names of their language,
   2. It's unnecessary for an English speaker to know about those words, if
   they want, they can go to Wikipedia.
   3. It's unnecessary for a developer. They can draw an image of
   multilingual stats by looking at codes and file structure.

*What is the best practice?*
See those links:

   1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
   2.
   
http://www.flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog/best-practice-for-presenting-languages/

*How-to, or my advice.*
In Audacity wiki, current multilingual system is using links to the page as
flags, like this

   - [[Image:Flag_of_Croatia_small.png‎|link=FAQ:About Audacity/hr|ČP:O
   Audacityju]]
   - [[Image:FrenchFlagSmall.png|link=FAQ:About Audacity/fr|FAQ : À propos
   d'Audacity]]
   - [[Image:Flag of Germany small.png|link=FAQ:About Audacity/de|FAQ:Über
   Audacity]]
   - [[Image:Flag_of_italy_small.png‎|link=FAQ:About Audacity/it|FAQ:Circa
   Audacity]]
   - [[Image:Flag_of_Portugal_small.png|link=FAQ:About
   Audacity/pt|FAQ:Sobre o Audacity]]
   - [[Image:Flag of Spain small.png|link=FAQ:About Audacity/es|FAQ:Sobre
   Audacity]]
   - [[Image:Flag of China small.png|link=FAQ:About
   Audacity/zh_CN|FAQ:About Audacity]]

I think it is possible to batch processed to local names, directly.
Maybe something like a box like in Mediawiki (link:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:About).

Regards,
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Re: [Audacity-translation] Plugins not translated

[mkpoli]

There is really a long way to go. Keep on. :D

Paul Licameli <paul.licam...@gmail.com>于2017年11月8日周三 上午9:29写道：

> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 8:11 PM, mkpoli <snowwolf1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>> I'm wondering are you going to tackle that problem in version 2.2.2 or
>> further?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>
> I am giving the problem thought, be assured.  But I make no promises.
> Many ideas are competing for my limited time.
>
> I hope I can make some progress in eliminating English grammar biases.
>
> Scooter also pointed out that the names of commands in chains don't
> translate.  In fact you see CamelCase names that are meant to be internal
> identifiers and should not be seen by the user.
>
> I might accomplish something to fix the chains, sooner than figuring out
> what to do about Nyquist plug-ins.
>
> PRL
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Paul Licameli <paul.licam...@gmail.com>于2017年9月7日周四 上午2:06写道：
>>
>>> Scooter, and mkpoli,
>>>
>>> These are excellent suggestions to fix a hole in our translations that I
>>> have been aware of too.  I hope you will cooperated with us in translating
>>> the next version of Audacity and that we will do something to address it
>>> then.
>>>
>>> But it is beyond the scope of the present version 2.2.0 to do anything.
>>>
>>> PRL
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 9:20 AM, mkpoli <snowwolf1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't think there're any.
>>>>
>>>> But I think there should be a system (maybe an API or sth.) for
>>>> plugins, so that official plugins can be translated fully and an author of
>>>> a unofficial plugin can decide whether necessary or not. Just like 
>>>> Sourcemod
>>>> Plugins
>>>> <https://wiki.alliedmods.net/Translations_(SourceMod_Scripting)>,
>>>> there is a "translation" folder with translation files one by one (a plugin
>>>> can decide which to use).
>>>>
>>>> Further more, it would be even better if an author of a plugin can use
>>>> existed-translation/glossary table which I mean they can use some of
>>>> audacity original translation for strings or even glossarys.
>>>>
>>>> scootergrisen <scootergri...@gmail.com>于2017年9月5日周二 下午8:30写道：
>>>>
>>>>> Menu item strings in the Analyze menu are not translatable.
>>>>> Like "Beat Finder..." to "Sound Finder...".
>>>>> Same for the bottom menu item in generate and effects menu.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess its comming from files in /Plug-Ins/ folder.
>>>>> Like Plug-Ins/beat.py have:
>>>>> ;name "Beat Finder..."
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there perhaps any way to get this translated for at more complete
>>>>> translation for the user?
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps something like:
>>>>> ;name "Beat Finder..."
>>>>> ;name[da] "Taktfinder..."
>>>>> ;name[sv] "Nogetfinder..."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>>> ___
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>>>>> Audacity-translation@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-translation
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>

[Audacity-translation] Some strings in AboutDialog.cpp

[mkpoli]

Some strings that may should be translated rather than wxT


   1. "website:" in *wxT("DarkAudacity website:
   [[http://www.darkaudacity.com/|http://www.darkaudacity.com/
   ]]")* in
   AboutDialog.cpp:430
   2. " and " in *AddCredit(wxT("[[http://lv2plug.in/|lv2
   ]] (") + _("incorporating") + wxT(" lilv,
   msinttypes, serd, sord and sratom)"), roleLibrary);* in
   AboutDialog.cpp:249

And the same problem I said before, the consistency of ":" colons.
AboutDialog.cpp:401 ~ 427
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Re: [Audacity-translation] Audacity 2.2.0 Windows Installer in zh_CN has a bad encoding in a label

[mkpoli]

If it is not a built-in translation in Inno Setup

The correct translation for it is:
重置偏好设置

Unicode:
U+91CD U+7F6E U+504F U+597D U+8BBE U+7F6E


mkpoli <snowwolf1...@gmail.com>于2017年11月7日周二 上午1:42写道：

> Wow that is a option to reset preference?
>
> I get a preference dialog after my installation.
>
> That would be a serious question if I have chosen it. (Although the
> double-check is worked with a user confusing.)
>
> Would that be a built-in translation in Inno Setup?
>
>
> mkpoli <snowwolf1...@gmail.com>于2017年11月7日周二 上午1:29写道：
>
>> [image: audacity.png]
>> The part is circled is where the text is unreadable with no meaning.
>>
>> I think this is probably a bug or bad translation of Inno Setup. A newer
>> version of Inno Setup maybe help or maybe suggest it to Inno Setup?
>>
>
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[Audacity-translation] Audacity 2.2.0 Windows Installer in zh_CN has a bad encoding in a label

[mkpoli]

[image: audacity.png]
The part is circled is where the text is unreadable with no meaning.

I think this is probably a bug or bad translation of Inno Setup. A newer
version of Inno Setup maybe help or maybe suggest it to Inno Setup?
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[Audacity-translation] Fwd: Is there any platform for FAQ translating?

[mkpoli]

So I found that FAQ is in MediaWiki. How do I request a wiki account for
translating FAQ?

-- Forwarded message -
From: mkpoli <snowwolf1...@gmail.com>
Date: 2017年9月5日周二 下午10:07
Subject: Is there any platform for FAQ translating?
To: <audacity-translation@lists.sourceforge.net>


Hello,

James said following in Jan, 2016 :

Translation has the most impact for the program user interface. There is
though also the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ),
http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/faq.html which user support
directs
people to.  This has very high value, it is central to the Audacity
manual, and we would love to have the FAQ translated.

The FAQ is much more important than the website as it has the most
frequently asked questions.   For detailed instructions of the kind in
the FAQ, where the user may already be confused, human translation would
make a very big difference.  So if we are going to organise translation
of more than the user interface, can it be for the FAQ?

It's Sept, 2017 now. I'm wondering is there any platform like transifex
(ofc not I think), Github repo, or MediaWiki multi-ling system that tracks
FAQ translation.

Regards,
mkpoli
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[Audacity-translation] Inconsistency of headers in About Dialog

[mkpoli]

Without colon:
In Memoriam
Audacity Team Members
Contributers
Translators
Libraries

With colon:
Emeritus:
Special Thanks:
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Re: [Audacity-translation] Questions for translators about contexts for singulars and plurals

[mkpoli]

Paul Licameli <paul.licam...@gmail.com>于2017年9月11日周一 上午12:10写道：

> On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 6:26 AM, mkpoli <snowwolf1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I checked a lot of files including GB (Chinese National Standardization)
>> and some other rules.
>>
>> I recommend format "%{h}d 时 %{m}d 分", which means:
>>
>> 1 hour -> 1 时
>> %d hours -> %d 时
>> 1 minute -> 2 分
>> %d minutes -> %d 分
>>
>>
>> Further Reading:
>> ---
>> In modern Chinese language, it's extremely free to express a time:
>>
>> Time with both hours and minutes: there is no need for classifier.
>> Time with only hours: classifier is optional.
>>
>> e.g. ( [] for optional)
>> 1. (ENG) 1 hour and 2 minutes = (CHN) 一小时两分钟 = (Literally) One Hour
>> Liang(=Two) Minute = (Writing CHN) 2 时 2 分 .
>> 2. (ENG) 1 hour = (CHN) 一[个]小时 = (Literally) One [Ge(classifier)] Hour.
>> 3. (ENG) 2 hours = (CHN) 两[个]小时 = (Literally) Liang(=Two)
>> [Ge(classifier)] Hour.
>>
>> Two hours and two minutes can be translated as:
>> 2 时 2 分  (Writing)
>> 两小时两分钟 (Oral, not best if written down)
>> ---
>>
>
> Thanks.
>
> I don't know if %{h}d is accepted by wxString formatting -- I must
> research that.
>

Just for examples, like %{1}d %{2}d or whatever. As far as I know,
translating system using POTs and POs can support formatting rearrangment.


> Time expressions are indeed one example of locale dependency, and again,
> this bit of code, that pieces two phrases together with the format "%d %s
> and %d %s.", shows more bad English grammar bias.
>

> But aside from special expressions for time -- I was concerned about a
> more general point about plurals: It's bad for us to ask that you translate
> single words out of context like "track" and "tracks".
>

> Rather, at least, "1 track" and "%d tracks".  Do you agree that the proper
> Chinese would use classifiers in that context, but you would not know that
> you should do that for "track" or "tracks" in isolation.
>
> And, as we have learned, Basque would need to put the numeral 1 after the
> noun but other numerals before.  Thus, I should give the Basque translator
> "%d tracks" (or hours) and not just "tracks".
>

Yes. And I think "%d %s and %d %s." is worse than "1 hour and 1 minute" +
"1 hour and %d minutes" + "%d hours and 1 minute" + "%d hours and %d
minutes". That's a way to do it, but I'm not sure if there is a better way
for compatibility in the wxString stuff.

For a language's morphology without plural - singular difference, I can
translate them as the same.  ("1 时 1 分" + "1 时 %d 分" + ...)

Yes, "1 track" -> “1 个轨道” = 1 + Ge (classifier) + Track, "%d tracks" -> "%d
个轨道" = %d + Ge (classifier) + Track. But I can just treat them as the same
(“1 个轨道” + "%d 个轨道").

Ok. Same thing as I said before.


>
>
Other languages surely have their own complications too.  Some languages
> may even need more than two number forms.  Thanks to Yuri's hints, I have
> educated myself some more in how xgettext does indeed accommodate such
> languages.
>
> This particular example of times is a phrase which, in English, contains
> not one but two parts that can independently vary into singular or plural
> -- and this presents extra difficulty for proper internationalization!
>
> The "%d %s and %d %s." at least is accompanied by /* i18n-hint: A time in
> hours and minutes. Only translate the "and". */
>
> But now I think it would be better first to translate "1 hour" or "%d
> hours", likewise the minutes, and then substitute into "%s and %s", with a
> comment about the purpose of that format.
>

I think so. That is equivalent as result to my idea.


>
> And furthermore there are optional "contexts" for gettext, and likely "%s
> and %s" should have a context connected to it.
>
> (And "context" might also let us translate light-as-not-dark distinctly
> from light-as-not-heavy, if ever that is really needed.)
>
> PRL
>
>
>
>>
>> Paul Licameli <paul.licam...@gmail.com>于2017年9月10日周日 上午1:25写道：
>>
>>> From what little I know of languages, this question goes especially to
>>> Chinese and Russian translators, but maybe it is also relevant to other
>>> languages I know less about.
>>>
>>> I found a small gap in our translations.  S

Re: [Audacity-translation] Questions for translators about contexts for singulars and plurals

[mkpoli]

Paul Licameli <paul.licam...@gmail.com>于2017年9月10日周日 下午11:44写道：

> On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 6:31 AM, mkpoli <snowwolf1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 1 of 2 clip -> 1/2 个片段 -> 1/2 Ge(classifier) Clip
>> 1 of 2 clip -> 1 个片段，总数 2 个 -> 1 Ge(classifier) Clip, Total 2
>> Ge(classifier)
>>
>
> Thanks for this example.  It reinforces my point:  the building-up of a
> phrase by concatenation of little pieces, as
> in AudacityProject::ClipBoundaryMessage, is one example of English grammar
> bias that is bad for translation.
>
> In fact this message is never displayed, but spoken by a screen reader
> program for the visually imparied.  Your translations may not only be read,
> but heard too!
>
> The Audacity Team takes accessibility for the VI very seriously.  I have
> debugged some problems with talking desktops, both on Windows, and the
> VoiceOver built into macOS.
>
> Before this morning, I have never yet had them speak anything but English
> to me.  I just tried VoiceOver on Mac (command + f5) after changing my
> preferred language in system preferences.  I made it speak its welcome in
> French and Mandarin to me.  Surely I could try others.
>
> I suggest that translators try out talking desktops too.  To hear this
> message, use the Previous or Next Clip command, which is new in version
> 2.2.0 beta, and (in English locale) bound to the Alt+P and Alt+N keystrokes
> by default.
>
>
I tried Windows Narrator (not very stable, sometimes it does not play for
unknown reason) in English, I can feel it.

I know almost nothing about Accessibility Designing.

Although in my opinion, that "text vs oral" thing should be processed by VO
system or at least leave an API for oral language, if there is something
like "1 of 2 clip" that is showed only by hearing, it should be oral.


> Does the Chinese message, unfortunately forced into English syntax, sound
> very stupid?
>

It does not play Chinese (Mandarin) for unknown reason. So I can't feel
that, but I think it's ok to translate "%d of %d clip", because I can just
translate the whole string as whatever I want (I mean the good Chinese
expression rather than other expression).


>
> PRL
>
>
>>
>> Paul Licameli <paul.licam...@gmail.com>于2017年9月10日周日 上午1:25写道：
>>
>>> From what little I know of languages, this question goes especially to
>>> Chinese and Russian translators, but maybe it is also relevant to other
>>> languages I know less about.
>>>
>>> I found a small gap in our translations.  See the code below.  "hour",
>>> "hours", "minute", "minutes" did not get extracted to the .pot file.  The
>>> intention is to compose strings like "1 hour and 2 minutes" from
>>> translations of pieces of the phrase.
>>>
>>> But I think it is better not to fix it by giving you four more little
>>> words to translate.  Rather, give a little more context.  That is, make the
>>> pieces to translate a little bigger:
>>>
>>> 1 hour
>>> %d hours
>>> 1 minute
>>> %d minutes
>>>
>>> I am thinking, for instance, that good Chinese requires a "classifier"
>>> word before "hours" or "minutes" -- but if I ask the Chinese translator
>>> just for the word "hour" or "hours" out of context, I would be given a
>>> translation without a classifier, and then assembling the pieces would not
>>> be good Chinese.
>>>
>>>// Use wxPLURAL to get strings
>>>
>>>sHours = wxPLURAL("hour", "hours", iHours);
>>>
>>>sMins = wxPLURAL("minute", "minutes", iMins);
>>>
>>>
>>>/* i18n-hint: A time in hours and minutes. Only translate the "and".
>>> */
>>>
>>>sFormatted.Printf(_("%d %s and %d %s."), iHours, sHours, iMins,
>>> sMins);
>>>
>>>return sFormatted;
>>>
>>> Below is another example of a translated phrase assembled from pieces,
>>> but without regard to other grammars.  The word "of" with no context is a
>>> very poor thing to present to translators.  Better in this case, I think,
>>> that the strings be
>>>
>>> 1 of 1 clip
>>> %d of %d clips
>>>
>>> (and really the first isn't good English, perhaps it should be "sole
>>> clip")
>>>
>>> I am thinking of a language like Russian where "clips" above would
>>> properly be translated into genitive pl

Re: [Audacity-translation] Questions for translators about contexts for singulars and plurals

[mkpoli]

1 of 2 clip -> 1/2 个片段 -> 1/2 Ge(classifier) Clip
1 of 2 clip -> 1 个片段，总数 2 个 -> 1 Ge(classifier) Clip, Total 2 Ge(classifier)


Paul Licameli 于2017年9月10日周日 上午1:25写道：

> From what little I know of languages, this question goes especially to
> Chinese and Russian translators, but maybe it is also relevant to other
> languages I know less about.
>
> I found a small gap in our translations.  See the code below.  "hour",
> "hours", "minute", "minutes" did not get extracted to the .pot file.  The
> intention is to compose strings like "1 hour and 2 minutes" from
> translations of pieces of the phrase.
>
> But I think it is better not to fix it by giving you four more little
> words to translate.  Rather, give a little more context.  That is, make the
> pieces to translate a little bigger:
>
> 1 hour
> %d hours
> 1 minute
> %d minutes
>
> I am thinking, for instance, that good Chinese requires a "classifier"
> word before "hours" or "minutes" -- but if I ask the Chinese translator
> just for the word "hour" or "hours" out of context, I would be given a
> translation without a classifier, and then assembling the pieces would not
> be good Chinese.
>
>// Use wxPLURAL to get strings
>
>sHours = wxPLURAL("hour", "hours", iHours);
>
>sMins = wxPLURAL("minute", "minutes", iMins);
>
>
>/* i18n-hint: A time in hours and minutes. Only translate the "and". */
>
>sFormatted.Printf(_("%d %s and %d %s."), iHours, sHours, iMins, sMins);
>
>return sFormatted;
>
> Below is another example of a translated phrase assembled from pieces, but
> without regard to other grammars.  The word "of" with no context is a very
> poor thing to present to translators.  Better in this case, I think, that
> the strings be
>
> 1 of 1 clip
> %d of %d clips
>
> (and really the first isn't good English, perhaps it should be "sole clip")
>
> I am thinking of a language like Russian where "clips" above would
> properly be translated into genitive plural case, but "clips" without
> context is again a bad thing to present to the translator.  The translator
> would probably give me nominative plural when there is no context.
>
>  wxString temp;
>
>  temp.Printf(wxT("%d %s %d %s "), result.index + 1, _("of"),
> result.waveTrack->GetNumClips(),
>
> result.waveTrack->GetNumClips() == 1 ? _("clip") : _("clips"
> ));
>
>  message += temp;
>
> Translators, can you name other examples like this?  Are there other
> examples of English strings in the .pot file that are single words out of
> context, which gave you doubts and difficulties about the right answers?
>
> Paul Licameli
>
>
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Re: [Audacity-translation] Questions for translators about contexts for singulars and plurals

[mkpoli]

I checked a lot of files including GB (Chinese National Standardization)
and some other rules.

I recommend format "%{h}d 时 %{m}d 分", which means:

1 hour -> 1 时
%d hours -> %d 时
1 minute -> 2 分
%d minutes -> %d 分


Further Reading:
---
In modern Chinese language, it's extremely free to express a time:

Time with both hours and minutes: there is no need for classifier.
Time with only hours: classifier is optional.

e.g. ( [] for optional)
1. (ENG) 1 hour and 2 minutes = (CHN) 一小时两分钟 = (Literally) One Hour
Liang(=Two) Minute = (Writing CHN) 2 时 2 分 .
2. (ENG) 1 hour = (CHN) 一[个]小时 = (Literally) One [Ge(classifier)] Hour.
3. (ENG) 2 hours = (CHN) 两[个]小时 = (Literally) Liang(=Two) [Ge(classifier)]
Hour.

Two hours and two minutes can be translated as:
2 时 2 分  (Writing)
两小时两分钟 (Oral, not best if written down)
---

Paul Licameli 于2017年9月10日周日 上午1:25写道：

> From what little I know of languages, this question goes especially to
> Chinese and Russian translators, but maybe it is also relevant to other
> languages I know less about.
>
> I found a small gap in our translations.  See the code below.  "hour",
> "hours", "minute", "minutes" did not get extracted to the .pot file.  The
> intention is to compose strings like "1 hour and 2 minutes" from
> translations of pieces of the phrase.
>
> But I think it is better not to fix it by giving you four more little
> words to translate.  Rather, give a little more context.  That is, make the
> pieces to translate a little bigger:
>
> 1 hour
> %d hours
> 1 minute
> %d minutes
>
> I am thinking, for instance, that good Chinese requires a "classifier"
> word before "hours" or "minutes" -- but if I ask the Chinese translator
> just for the word "hour" or "hours" out of context, I would be given a
> translation without a classifier, and then assembling the pieces would not
> be good Chinese.
>
>// Use wxPLURAL to get strings
>
>sHours = wxPLURAL("hour", "hours", iHours);
>
>sMins = wxPLURAL("minute", "minutes", iMins);
>
>
>/* i18n-hint: A time in hours and minutes. Only translate the "and". */
>
>sFormatted.Printf(_("%d %s and %d %s."), iHours, sHours, iMins, sMins);
>
>return sFormatted;
>
> Below is another example of a translated phrase assembled from pieces, but
> without regard to other grammars.  The word "of" with no context is a very
> poor thing to present to translators.  Better in this case, I think, that
> the strings be
>
> 1 of 1 clip
> %d of %d clips
>
> (and really the first isn't good English, perhaps it should be "sole clip")
>
> I am thinking of a language like Russian where "clips" above would
> properly be translated into genitive plural case, but "clips" without
> context is again a bad thing to present to the translator.  The translator
> would probably give me nominative plural when there is no context.
>
>  wxString temp;
>
>  temp.Printf(wxT("%d %s %d %s "), result.index + 1, _("of"),
> result.waveTrack->GetNumClips(),
>
> result.waveTrack->GetNumClips() == 1 ? _("clip") : _("clips"
> ));
>
>  message += temp;
>
> Translators, can you name other examples like this?  Are there other
> examples of English strings in the .pot file that are single words out of
> context, which gave you doubts and difficulties about the right answers?
>
> Paul Licameli
>
>
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Re: [Audacity-translation] Here are some more promblems

[mkpoli]

Hello,

I see.

For #1, I pondered this problem again, and asked other people.
I translated with as 使用(use, verb), and it is became easier enough to
understand. Not the best but good. So I withdraw my opinion.

For #2, i think the comment of it should be rewritten to what it really
means. And I don't know if there is any way to delete reference to
src/effects/Leveller.cpp:41 in pot so that it wouldn't confuse other
translators.

For #4, I mean I agree with scooter :D I found a lot of same and similar
problems that he have already posted.

For the last, I see. But I think it need a further discussion to improve
appearance.

Look forward to the new pot file.

Paul Licameli <paul.licam...@gmail.com>于2017年9月7日周四 上午9:14写道：

> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 1:26 PM, mkpoli <snowwolf1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> 1. Preferences -> Recording -> Name newly recorded tracks -> "With: ".
>> That "with" is too English-specified, although I can translate in "用"(with,
>> instrumental) or "以"(by), it will be kind of strange. I suggest change the
>> GroupBox title to "Name newly recorded tracks with", then it make sense for
>> English and other languages (maybe?). And for zh_CN, I can keep the tiltle
>> unchanged, but add instrumental prep/verb one by one. (Track Number -> Add
>> Track Number, Custom Track Name -> Add Custom Track Name)
>>
>
> Hello mkpoli, and thanks for your work.
>
> I am the Release Manager for 2.2.0 and I do intend to make some program
> changes and accept updated translations.  I want to add to the list of
> strings requiring translation, but not modify existing ones.  It is too
> late to make more serious rearrangements of the user interface.
>
> For #1 above I say make translations of the two strings "Name newly
> recorded tracks" and "With:" so that one Chinese string after the other
> conveys the same meaning, but you don't need to divide the words between
> the two strings in the same way.
>
>
>> 2.
>> #. i18n-hint: Of strength of an effect.  Not strongly.
>> #: src/effects/Leveller.cpp:41 src/prefs/GUIPrefs.cpp:95
>> msgid "Light"
>> msgstr "轻微" ("浅色")
>>
> Light means "not strongly" in Leveller.cpp but "not dark" in
>> src/prefs/GUIPrefs.cpp:95. Impossible to translate.
>>
>
> Translate as "not dark".  The other use of Light in Leveller is obsolete
> code not actually run any more.
>
>
>> 3. Preferences -> Quality -> Both "Real-time Conversion" and
>> "High-quality Conversion" -> Sample Rate Converter -> * Qualty. All four
>> combo item is not in msgids
>>
>
> Scooter mentioned this too.  They will be in updated .pot files.
>
>
>> 4. Same problem scootergrisen and I have mentioned before (menu items not
>> in msgids)
>>
>
> Which specifically?
>
>
>>
>> And something not about translation: 2.2.0-beta Preferences -> Keybord,
>> in tree mode shortcut to the left is REALLY UGLY, but name and keyword is
>> acceptable.
>>
>
> This wasn't my doing, but sorry, it's too late to change that.  The
> argument in its favor of this change is that some names can be very long,
> such as those for plug-ins that include complete file paths.  So they just
> extend rightward, and you can see the whole path if you wish, using the
> horizontal scroll bar.  But the entire key name is seen at all times in a
> fixed width column at left.
>
> Paul Licameli
>
>
>
>>
>> Regards,
>> mkpoli
>>
>>
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Re: [Audacity-translation] About Nyquist Worker

[mkpoli]

So it should not be a wxT(""), right?

Paul Licameli <paul.licam...@gmail.com>于2017年9月7日周四 上午9:36写道：

> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 10:09 AM, mkpoli <snowwolf1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I failed to find the string "Nyquist Worker" from #define
>> NYQUIST_WORKER_ID wxT("Nyquist Worker") in both Audacity or Audacity
>> Wiki. Does it mean a "man" does a job or something like MASTER-WORKER
>> Pattern?
>>
>> Regards,
>> mkpoli
>>
>
> That string does not really need translation.  It is used only internally
> in the program and never seen by the user.
>
> PRL
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
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[Audacity-translation] About Nyquist Worker

[mkpoli]

Hello,

I failed to find the string "Nyquist Worker" from #define NYQUIST_WORKER_ID
wxT("Nyquist Worker") in both Audacity or Audacity Wiki. Does it mean a
"man" does a job or something like MASTER-WORKER Pattern?

Regards,
mkpoli
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[Audacity-translation] Is there any platform for FAQ translating?

[mkpoli]

Hello,

James said following in Jan, 2016 :

Translation has the most impact for the program user interface. There is
though also the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ),
http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/faq.html which user support
directs
people to.  This has very high value, it is central to the Audacity
manual, and we would love to have the FAQ translated.

The FAQ is much more important than the website as it has the most
frequently asked questions.   For detailed instructions of the kind in
the FAQ, where the user may already be confused, human translation would
make a very big difference.  So if we are going to organise translation
of more than the user interface, can it be for the FAQ?

It's Sept, 2017 now. I'm wondering is there any platform like transifex
(ofc not I think), Github repo, or MediaWiki multi-ling system that tracks
FAQ translation.

Regards,
mkpoli
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Re: [Audacity-translation] Plugins not translated

[mkpoli]

I don't think there're any.

But I think there should be a system (maybe an API or sth.) for plugins, so
that official plugins can be translated fully and an author of a unofficial
plugin can decide whether necessary or not. Just like Sourcemod Plugins
, there is
a "translation" folder with translation files one by one (a plugin can
decide which to use).

Further more, it would be even better if an author of a plugin can use
existed-translation/glossary table which I mean they can use some of
audacity original translation for strings or even glossarys.

scootergrisen 于2017年9月5日周二 下午8:30写道：

> Menu item strings in the Analyze menu are not translatable.
> Like "Beat Finder..." to "Sound Finder...".
> Same for the bottom menu item in generate and effects menu.
>
> I guess its comming from files in /Plug-Ins/ folder.
> Like Plug-Ins/beat.py have:
> ;name "Beat Finder..."
>
> Are there perhaps any way to get this translated for at more complete
> translation for the user?
>
> Perhaps something like:
> ;name "Beat Finder..."
> ;name[da] "Taktfinder..."
> ;name[sv] "Nogetfinder..."
>
>
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Re: [Audacity-translation] I'm confusing

[mkpoli]

Hello,
James

Thank you for your replying.

I'm very glad to know that my contribution is accepted. I will follow the
development of Audacity, and I will try to contribute more in the future. I
hope my contribution can help Audacity and users.

Regards,
mkpoli

James Crook <cro...@indigo.ie>于2017年9月4日周一 下午11:27写道：

> Sorry.  I made a mistake by not not sending a message to this list.
> Yes, zn_CH is in the beta.  It went into GitHub the same day you sent
> it.  You can see it with the 'Audacity-2.2.0-beta-0' tag here:
>
>
> https://github.com/audacity/audacity/commit/6609d6a8cd401dcaa16160949f45ce12146dd718
>
> The beta has just been announced and is available for download from
> FossHub.
> http://www.audacityteam.org/beta-version-for-audacity-2-2-0-available/
>
>
> Thanks for your work on zh_CN, and it is in Audacity now.
>
> --James.
>
>
> On 9/4/2017 3:49 PM, mkpoli wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I posted my translation of zh_CN on this mailing-list as well as the
> > transifex project last week.
> >
> > But there is no any reply or message or contact here. I'm confusing what
> to
> > do now. I have read through all instructions, but aren't up-to-date or
> > complete, so I'm still confusing.
> >
> > I'm sorry about my bad manner to ask my question on such a public area.
> >
> > Regards,
> > mkpoli
>
>
>
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[Audacity-translation] I'm confusing

[mkpoli]

Hello,

I posted my translation of zh_CN on this mailing-list as well as the
transifex project last week.

But there is no any reply or message or contact here. I'm confusing what to
do now. I have read through all instructions, but aren't up-to-date or
complete, so I'm still confusing.

I'm sorry about my bad manner to ask my question on such a public area.

Regards,
mkpoli
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