Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned nah, they never bought me much, either once I left school, and college was a nightmare without all they could have done. I was using my familie's computer for just about everything... Try sharing a PC with your older brother and your younger sister for a change and see how far you get in college life. The only thing more fun than that was the lack of assistance I got over all from professors. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=286189#p286189 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned I don't really understand the theory behind it, but apparently the braille displays use some form of piezoelectric jiggery pokery. That, plus the pins makes it cost a good bit to manufacture. It doesn't mean they don't mark it up to they can profit too, which hey, that's what we do, however, what gets to me is when they hike up prices because the gummint'll pay for it. The gummint ain't never bought me sht! I'd have to save up for a year or better to afford one. But hey, that's my deal. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=286182#p286182 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned Hi seconded nokturnusI can sympathise for that, as for the cost of braille displays, yeah their mechanical nature is where their major cost comes in.They are aware and are trying to get that down, but to do that they need to get rid of the pin system.THe mechanical units have pins which ware out, also moters to drive them, there needs to be space not to mention the battery cells, etc, etc.Braille is sadly a vary clunky and cumbersom medium, its always going to be huge ofcause but its the last thing to downsize so I understand that.Jaws and others I am un certain.Using nvda, a free opensource reader with scripting available people write stuff for it every day.Programs, interface enhancements, ocr packages, weather and other cloud service intergrations, and speech synths braille drivers, the list goes on.Excusing certain people that want to use it for viruses, hacking others computers and the like on just about every time I have looked at nvda's lists someone is either advertising an idea, writing it, publishing it, or getting their allready written ideas that were shelved in the bin out of it and doing it again.These are not always major comercial programs, most of them are small things.Some are needed like the windows 10 interface enhancement module, you really do need that one.So there are certainly those with the want ofcause its not enough for the throw backs of the old days.Ofcause it could be that there has not been competition for a niche market such as ours.Usually monopolies are broken up with competition that gets so fierce that companies have to move, merge, etc to survive.That never happens if it does its quite slow.At most what can happen is one or more companies will merge into devisions but its never been that big.Sadly our first generation companies have been round since the 80s.With no industry legally splitting them up for some corrupt reason or them naturally splitting to survive, heck having some of them drop out of favor and having to adapt they have become complacent.And as long as there is a market they will never die.Inovation sort of becomes mute at that point.Comercial screen readers had their day.First unix then dos, then win 3.11 then windows 95, then 98, then nt 2000 and xp.then vista and 7 branches.Then 8, now 10.Sadly thats probably where it all stopps.Microsoft and the market at large are moving to online services, the desktop market is still round, but I have seen traditional companies like adobe move to a cloud infrastructure with some desktop apps.About 5 years before this conversation ever happened the writing was on the wall.I went into a pc shop with an autistic friend of mine.Every month we would go into the computer shop every month we would look at the latest games.Every time we would marvel and shudder at their price ta gs.One day mr steam came along.All of a sudden pc games dropped, shortly after that shops reshaped themselves for consoles.Now with online stuff being there most so called games now are the base package on cd enough to get it installed then you buy the extras and the content itself.Some stuff you have to buy to.In the early days we talked in bytes and kb 1-5mb was big.Now 1-5gb is small, over 20gb is medium.Even the modern smart phone app can have a size of 6mb up to a size of a wopping 700mb.To some respects the mainstream is catching up.We have everything from digital recorders to our microwaves, accessibility laws, etc.Our industry the disability industry the blind industry is the last in the line that has moved up.The industry are making a lot of smaller companies and we are moving.The core hasn't felt this yet, eventually it may move or it won't.Dolphin is doing a lot of extra programs, some of which I may even buy for using later.Gw is with ms on office and sells braille, fs handles student level stuff and jaws.A lot of places accept nvda and other things.Where comercial software then has its place is probably in custom apps.The only place where mainstream has intergrated so far is humanware and their keynote tablet with android 4x os.Its unsure exactly but maybe some of their keynote software will be installed on the regular android platform, they will branch out they are already adapting.Right now its a volinteer thing.Once the industry adapts they will be within the mainstream preasured market.They know they are high and mighty and to be honest I am not sure if I had the position for all time I would want to leave the place I got to in those years.I'd be bored and jump from the bridge when I was 40, but I am unsure if someone gave me a cushy life where everything was done and I could be a nice helples s blindy guy with no responsibilities that I'd want to leave it either especially if I could continue grinding on.Its possible eventually if the entire market turns they will have to adapt maybe they are and we don't know about it.The only time that ever worked was when outspoken went bust, and apple
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned @TJT1234,And on the other side of the spectrum you have employers who hire people who they deem "passionate workers." It's extra work. It means you have a passion for doing a job and you don't complain about anything whatsoever because you are a passionate individual who is passionate about the job. do you remember back in the day when McDonalds used to advertise this idea that "we love to see you smile?" I doubt you can tell me those people are doing what they do because they love doing it. When the homeless guy comes in and smells like the mother of all slums and sewage they have to treat him the same as the clean and well shaven and well dressed lawyer who just left with his seemingly upright and virtuous family. if you have someone come and clean your house, you'll more than likely want someone who isn't going to complain about the job they have to do whatsoever and who seems on top of that, enth usiastic about the job you're giving them. That's extra work, but someone, somewhere has to do it.Your trash collector, your plumber, your window washer, your insurance agent, your taxi driver, your pizza delivery man or woman, all of them have to suck it all up and tuck it all in and smile at you regardless of their personal feelings if they work for a company that requires "passionate workers" because they want to keep their job. what do they want to do? what would they rather be doing? Are they doing what they love doing? if you ask for my personal take on that set of questions, I think not... At least, not all of them. if doctors who make tons of money would rather sit in their offices fat shaming young women than helping them feel better about themselves, whatever in the world should make us think those who haven't achieved what most interpret as success are doing what they love doing?I have yet to meet anyone w ho doesn't have an excuse for going to work, a person who does it and says, "I do what I do because I enjoy doing it even if I make no proffit off of it." That employers who sincerely care about those who work for them exist is not something I find hard believing, but there is always conflict of interest and proffitability to take into consideration. Tell them to quit smoking because it makes them look less attractive! Tell them to go work out in the gym and lose some poundage and gain some musculature! Tell them to seek a counselor that'll help them with any area of their life because I did it and so should you and your mama! We need to feel good! At any cost! it sounds like greed to me. :ddon't get me wrong... Before you call me an absolute cynic I do believe there is hope in this world, but it does not come in the form of humankind collectively striving together to achieve happiness and satisfaction, as I be lieve neither is an act of human will, else we would have had it thousands of years ago. To further my point a little, why is it that every single day we see people on social media who have to throw their day in your face and make it seem like they are doing something you should be wishing you were doing and should feel jealous of? Trips, vacations, food, products, services, relationships, and the circle continues, and theirs always, always has to be better than yours. My guess is, however, that if you could get those people to honestly come forward and be truthful about the way they're feeling, you would find that all is not always as it seems. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=286152#p286152 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned We are a niche market, however, that doesn't fully explain the price of Jaws. They are essentially in maintenance mode at this point. Nothing new, no innovations, just keeping up with Microsoft. It's sad and it's wrong how they continue to demand large sums of money because some government agencies will purchase it for some people. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=286150#p286150 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned My post is completely off-topic--please disregard it if you like.Nocturnus, in post 18, you are misinterpreting the statement about "Live your life to the fullest." I completely understand where you and the other people chiming in on it are coming from--it is not okay to be a terrorist or damage the lives of other people for your own enjoyment (though they don't do it for enjoyment--there is always an underlying mental health issue, but that is beside the point). The purpose of that statement is to emphasise to people that they do not have to conform to societal expectations and principles if they don't want to and to see beyond the traditional views of the world--to take risks and see what they can achieve. How often we see rich people with millions of dollars just sitting in banks, probably going to be donated down the generations with very little of it ever spent. They could donate it to charity or start businesses, or put it to use in some way, but t hey don't. How often we see people given scholarships to attend prestigious schools, universities, institutions and the like who do not make good use of them. How often we see people who could travel around the world to enhance their understanding of life to change something, but nothing ever comes of their miraculous trip, or worse still, they never go on the trip at all. How often we see people promoted in businesses who make nothing of it, people having friends and family with great lives who could do something to change theirs, but they don't embrace the opportunities that are available to them. We need people who go out on a limb and dabble in something that they have never tried before--people like Steve Jobs and Charles Darwin.As for post 21, JAWS could be somewhat less expensive now, but profit is always the #1 priority for Freedom Scientific. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=286104#p286104 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned My post is completely off-topic--please disregard it if you like.Nocturnus, in post 18, you are misinterpreting the statement about "Live your life to the fullest." I completely understand where you and the other people chiming in on it are coming from--it is not okay to be a terrorist or damage the lives of other people for your own enjoyment (though they don't do it for enjoyment--there is always an underlying mental health issue, but that is beside the point). The point of that statement is to emphasise to people that they do not have to conform to societal expectations and principles if they don't want to and to see beyond the traditional views of the world--to take risks and see what they can achieve. How often we see rich people with millions of dollars just sitting in banks, probably going to be donated down the generations with very little of it ever spent. They could donate it to charity or start businesses, or put it to use in some way, but the y don't. How often we see people given scholarships to attend prestigious schools, universities, institutions and the like who do not make good use of them. How often we see people who could travel around the world to enhance their understanding of life to change something, but nothing ever comes of their miraculous trip, or worse still, they never go on the trip at all. How often we see people promoted in businesses who make nothing of it, people having friends and family with great lives who could do something to change theirs, but they don't embrace the opportunities that are available to them. We need people who go out on a limb and dabble in something that they have never tried before--people like Steve Jobs and Charles Darwin.As for post 21, JAWS could be somewhat less expensive now, but profit is always the #1 priority for Freedom Scientific. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=286104#p286104 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned The high price of JAWS does make me wonder how much the programmers and tech support people are paid. Also I wonder how much it costs to manufacture a Braille display based on their prices. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=286074#p286074 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned @severestormsteve1,Nicely phrased and well taken. I suppose that's why we all get a little angry when FS puts out yet another version of JAWS that doesn't seem to have anything especially new or exciting and we're all going, "yo! Why am I paying a thousand dollars for this?" URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=286041#p286041 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned @severestormsteve1,Nicely phrased and well taken. I suppose that's why we all get a little angry when JAWS puts out yet another version that doesn't seem to have anything especially new or exciting and we're all going, "yo! Why am I paying a thousand dollars for this?" URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=286041#p286041 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
2016-11-15
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned @18 the general principle is that anyone is free to pursue life, liberty and happiness, so long as it doesn't conflict with someone Else's. In other words, a member of ISIS is not free to walk up to someone and cut their head off for not following their doctrine, no matter if it would grieve the terror group member to do so: it's against the law to kill, therefore you may not pursue that form of happiness. This principle is what the United States of America claims to be based on, I think we're getting better at it, but we are not the only ones: if schools in other countries are informing people they can be what they want, they presume that kid knows he/she can't go around bombing everything because well? you said I could do what I want and I have a sick mind...As for the questions you posed: no, one [shouldn't] do any of those things. Unfortunately though, people do: and just as Iron Cross32 pointed out in his post, one can only ignore it: it 39;s the trolls and those who hurt those they care about and who care about them that get hurt in the end, -- you cannot set off an avalanche and then expect to run bare foot to the bottom of the mountain without it catching up to you.But when you pay for a good or service, you are automatically entitled to that good/service, and when you charge for a good/service, that becomes your job to maintain it. Just as one cannot leave their gourmet dishes out, uncovered all night and expect no complaining / consequences from very surprised customers who stop in for a quick bight the next day and spend the rest of the day ridding themselves of everything they'd eaten, you cannot walk away from or not deliver a game if you have someone's hard earned money going towards it. See, unjustified entitlement is like someone brought up earlier: you make your wife make you a sandwich, only to gripe at [her] for not doing it right, when you could've very well! Gotten up and made th e bloody thing yourself. That's, a bully. That's, a troll. That's, a self entitled little brat. Not someone who gives a developer $15 for a product, wishes the developer well, offers to help in any way they can, only for the developer to treat them like dirt and on top of that, not even refund them! And then the icing on the cake, have fellow members tell them to shut up, be grateful and nice, or you'll make us all look bad. Sometimes yes, it is the complainer's fault here, and you're absolutely right, complaining does not resolve the issue. But if a developer has the right to take money, and then not deliver the product the money was put towards, and then tell us all we're ungrateful and rude, then as many people as want to have the right to vent their frustrations, it doesn't matter if it helps or not. Nothing we do will help, short of a legal battle of course, that's all up to Gyro. And I get the point of "be as constructive as po ssible", I try to do so myself: I have learned that calling someone a stupid little retard or something similar, unlike complaining, does not tell them what the problem is. This is why I have refused to write a one liner on the edge of winter topic, or the swamp topic, and when I told people like Gyro I wouldn't be bothered if they left, I gave reasons both working up to it and beyond so they knew why. Because remember, even constructive criticism can be harsh sometimes: how do you build a structure without hammering nails in? If the wood crumbles from the hammering, it is not fit for the job. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=286000#p286000 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned @17 agreed. OCR is kind of a holdout, a last shot to me, since the results of which can range from OK to horribly illegible. I see no issue in letting a company know about accessibility issues in a product. Obviously, you would gain better favor if you acted in a kind and understanding manner rather than ranting and raving, but the whole point of this topic is to say that you can handle the situation the best way you see fit. I would like to point out though, that we do have the unenviable position to represent the blind community to sighted developers, so that's one thing to keep in mind.My stance in what is accessible, and striving for accessibility is this: They can do their part in exposing their controls to UIA or MSAA and that will go a long way. If that is not enough, we can develop addons to polish it up. I wish that they would make the effort to ensure their products are fully accessible, but that's not always going to happen. In some cases, its not even feasible or possible.Also, if an app requires you to use jaws cursor or NVDA object nav commands to access controls, that isn't exactly an accessible app. either, its better than nothing, but it isn't accessible exactly. Any victory I can get on that score I am grateful for, but that doesn't mean I won't ask for more.I believe that a back and forth exchange of communication leading to ideas with a develop is also a good thing, provided they're welcome to such. Obviously, they wouldn't want to be flooded with ideas, but communication where possible will ease the path forward. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285988#p285988 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned I must emphasise before continuing further that this post is one of those posts that, if you read it with the idea that you're being refered to personally, you're probably going to take offense to it. I can't stress this enough; I'm refering to no one person on this forum and am simply reflecting upon my own personal experiences. that out of the way, there is reasonable stuff on this topic and I do agree with it. The difference lies in how we express ourselves and our opinions. I cannot support someone who comes out and says, "Your product is a junkbucket with brains and does little more than give me a bit of amusement because I've had to adapt with every bit of software and hardware I have just to use the stupid thing!" On the other hand, a person who kindly outlines why x is wrong and how y is capable of achieving a fix does receive my attention. there's a number of ways one can respond to just about any situation. I was mad when Swamp became a paid product, but I didn't tell you or anyone else on the forum because quite frankly I felt it wasn't worth my time or anyone elses. Other people filled in the gap quite nicely and did way worse in some instances.And then there's entitlement. those of us growing up in the late 80's watched Disney movies about dudes who got princesses in the end, even if the guy was an absolute loser. it carried into other media as well. It carried into schools, where we were told we could be anything we wanted to and we should do what we love doing because you only get one life to live and you should live it to its fullest, the most subliminal lie I've ever heard in my life. if doing what you love involves trolling other people, should you really continue to do what you love? If living your life to its fullest takes into consideration how many people you're going to hurt before it ends should you really and truly live your life to its fullest potential? Should we get rich and or die trying? Should I step on your shoes to get there? if I know now that placing myself over you requires that I do something most everyone else will see as callous just so I can make millions and continue to do what I love doing which is to indulge myself and my family on a regular basis with the best of the best, should I do that?I believe the answer to any of this is a resounding NO! with a forceful NEGATIVE! On both sides! The want to be super rich and famous doesn't all of a sudden generate a demand for you personally. The want to indulge one's self doesn't create an abundance of products and services to do that with. If you feel entitled, I'd certainly be willing to discuss it and even let you go on your merry way thinking you are if you personally feel you have a good enough reason, but that doesn't make it any more true than the idea of my being entitled to bashing your skull into the ground because I think you're a brat. :d URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285986#p285986 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned This reminds me of a conversation I was having with someone over Skype chat, as it sort of deals with the whole entitlement thing.It started with Virtual MIDI Synth. We were talking about how the new beta version's tabs have to be navigated by using OCR on the window. I told the person I was talking to that I had just signed up on their forum and could make them aware of this issue. His was response was basically why bother? If we need to access a control that isn't accessible, we can just OCR the window and it's all good. I told him that I simply wanted to make the developer aware of accessibility issues, nothing more. If the issue isn't resolved, it's no big deal since there is a way around it. His point was that there isn't an accessibility issue because the screen reader can OCR the window and the controls can be accessed. My point was that just because screen readers have a special way to read certain controls, that doesn't mean softw are developers shouldn't worry about accessibility at all.We then started talking about PdF files and how JAWS has had the ability to OCR PDF files that are just scanned images for a while now. Again, I said that just because JAWS has the ability to do this doesn't give companies an excuse not to produce accessible PDF files. His response was basically it's not their problem now because JAWS can read the images, and taking a scanned document and turning it into text takes a lot longer to do.I'm sure I'm missing a bit more that was said, but I don't have the conversation history anymore.Now there's the possibility that to him and other people reading this I probably sounded like your typical entitled blind brat. However, I still stand by my point. In my opinion, just because screen reader developers found ways to adapt to p roblems doesn't mean companies and developers are completely off the hook. If we don't let people know about accessibility problems and just silently adapt to them, no one will know there are accessibility issues in the first place. That's where being polite and reasonable comes in instead of just complaining. If the companies and developers don't care, fine. We'll find a way to adapt, but I still believe we should try to reach out and make them aware anyway. Eric Damery even said on FSCast that the PDF OCR was a fallback measure and companies should still do their best to produce accessible PDF files. That doesn't automatically make my opinion correct, but I think it's something to consider. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285984#p285984 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
2016-11-15
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned Yes, that is true: ignoring it is the best option, because there is in fact nothing that can be done about it. Though that whole part above what you said about the parenting thing, it seems like it gets a bit of a pass around here, (edge of winter as one example). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285979#p285979 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned People sometimes don't take time out to think how their comments affect the other. Not saying that is always going to be a factor, for instance, if I buy something and it is not what I paid for, either because it is not as the description said, it does not work properly, or it was damaged or any other reason. I will be contacting the company and sorting it out. I will be professional in my dealings with them, however, that only goes so far. If my efforts to seek out a resolution to such a problem get me no where, I'm going to become quite indignant. It's just how I am.If I can resolve the issue by being kind and professional, then I am glad to do it. I will not have my rights as a customer and a citizen trod on though.If someone makes a game, and I pay for that game, it is going to have to work the way it is meant to. No software is bug free, granted, but when I put out money, I expect a product that fulfills its purpose. Nowadays, we buy into to early access games, and if that's the case, and the thing has bugs, well you took a risk, so my feeling is that you should provide constructive feedback to help get the bugs resolved.As for this parenting thing, yeah, granted, but what are you gonna do about it, just ignore it and move on. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285977#p285977 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
2016-11-15
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned Also I noticed I did put "assume an administrative role in the community", so that could've also been perceived as attack on forum staff. I should probably consider re-wording my figurative language. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285975#p285975 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned Hi steve, interesting topic.We all have our lives some more sheltered than others.Now I know a lot has changed, some stuff for the better, a lot of stuff not.I grew up in the 90s just when the blind and disabled were exiting the institutionalised space we had been in the 50s and up, and actually getting real jobs and real rights such that the mormals have had.People didn't know and well we got put into a helpless catogry.To be honest, in some ways we are still the poor and helpless blind, in some ways its improved and in some ways its improved but now reversed a bit.When I went to school, not many people knew much about us in the mainstream, you got some support but the schools controled funding result, our funding for services was put into the school and our education suffered.According to a good friend that was one of my teachers that does not happen now.The blind got wize and we have a educational company/ union wich handles resources itself and fights for us.No not using the braillers in the class because of noise, no issues with people not understanding the blind we have a voice and someone to fight for us.A lot more focus in braille but also technology now days especially with the voice recognition, touch and electronic braille.A lot of the organisations at least in new zealand are donation based and governed by the people for the people and their members.We are no longer governed by the state for the most part, we deal with them on our own terms which means we have power to handle things as we see fit for the most part.A lot of things have streamlined, things like voting, audio described movies, help from national contact centres and a few things like that.Sadly, its cost us to.When I start job searching shortly after I managed to go through teck I found not much, initially I got support but as it streamlined I started getting the by the book thing, all crea tivity moved out of the industry or at least my part and you got told to go here and there and wait for something to come.At schools now I know they are dropping specialised disabled units for mainstream intergration and for the blind lifeskills and other training within our own resource centres on the one hand I realise why they are doing this on the other it doesn't always work especiall with interlectial handicapped people, man do I hate political correctness, they make mental retards into this majorly long word as they seem to do with just about everything.I am not blind, I am visually impaired, thats something I really hate, why make words that make it so obvious I like it but I don't at the same time.Anyway I know from a source that violent and disruptive students don't belong in the mainstream and with the units shut down there is no place to go.Also depending who you are with there are no resources available as they used to be.In my day, the units probably did drop me back with ability some.But I knew if it got to noisy, I could go to my room reserved for me and stay there.There were also a lot of trips we did especially after exams.A lot of the good stuff has gone with the bad.As far as rights, it all depends.Because I am blind I am entitled to a lot of things the biggest is access.Often I don't always get it, and that can be fine.Awareness is one thing and if its that bad, complain to the right place is also good.Its no good coming onto a forum like this and saying, I am entitled to this thing because I am blind or something is broken if we on the forum can't do much bar say oh poor helpless blind you are you better now.If you must complain it needs to be justified and on a forum that can actually do things.Example, I had to deal with a department store that had an inaccessible eft pos machine.I could have 1. rung up the stor e and complained.2. gone on a forum and bitched.3. gone on my organisation's tech list and complained about it.1. if I chose this option its unlikely that they would necessarily know.The attitudes to the blind while accepted in most cases stops there.People are still not sure how to help, some don't know what exactly to do, like your isp or printer support person who ask you can you see the lights when you can't but you can enter the interface and find information yourself but they don't know to the people that just refuse to help because maybe they can't and say take it back to get fixed.Or fix things and they are totally broke and have to be replaced/ reformatted.Call centres can be anywhere in the world and sometimes give information which can be eronious.I had an issue with a router via an isp I am no longer on.I rang support, I was transfered to india where someone gave me outdated information by several years.End result, the router broke and died.I complained to the isp, eventually I got transfered to someone that could speak english and got the thing replaced.I still have issues with first level support mostly they don't understand its only when I get
Re: I'm seriously concerned
2016-11-15
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned Yes, you did misunderstand me: this thread has not been about the audio games.net forum: it's the blind community in general. The self appointed higher ups and admins reference was not targeting actual administrators of online communities as I said. Parental figures and those who feel the need to inform others that they aught to shut up and be good little blind kids was not referring to working administrators on a forum doing their job to insure their forum does not become a mudslide of flaming matches and you and your family suck messages. But if Aprone hasn't updated swamp in several months and there happens to be a couple page of comments that aren't "you did oh so great of a job!", but who's comments are not on the line where moderation needs to step in, I don't believe someone has the right to hop on and tell everyone who was posting to just stop being negative, pay up, and re populate the game. Similarly, I am referring to situations like t he edge of winter topic: Danny especially is known for being one of the more nice types of this forum, and I was at least trying there, because I did not inform Gyro that he was a (insert any insult that might get mod warning here). Both of us, like the rest of the people, simply got frustrated: there were complaints on that topic, as well as requests for refunds, and then we get people who come over and tell us we're being entitled, making customer service workers loathe their jobs, and that we should stop because our attitude will give the whole community a bad rep. So no, it's not moderators of forums like yourselves who I have an issue with. Authority is authority, it's everywhere, and without it would exist only anarchy. You have been doing a wonderful job so far as I can tell. I was simply pointing out certain people, (this goes beyond just those on this forum), in the blind community, who I've noticed believe it is in their right to perform suc h hypocrisy. I can understand how this could've been perceived as an attack on the administrators who run this forum since yes, it was posted on this forum and referred to it several times, but I figured I'd post my thoughts about the community in general, and see what others had to say. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285971#p285971 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned @severestormsteve1,I hope I'm not misunderstanding any of what you're saying, and I'm fully aware that my post may be unwarranted, so I'll ask for forgiveness in advance in the event I'm barking up the wrong tree here.I have not assumed an administrative role... It was given to me. I am here to moderate this forum to the best of my abilities with one truth, an absolute truth hanging over my head every single time I do, which is that I cannot do it perfectly. I hate disagreeing with people; it sometimes leads to arguments I would rather not participate in. I cannot, however, live by the idea that all truth is relative and thus cannot be disagreed with, since truth by that statement becomes a matter of any one person's perception. In order for such a statement to be true, it would by interesting coincidence be untrue, since my perception of it can defeat it by my simply suggesting it to be untrue. There are abso lutes we have to come to grips with, and on this forum those absolutes are rules we must all follow, not just a handful of individuals, as would be the case in any establishment with a physical door, physical walls and a physical roof and floors. once you walk into it, you are subjecting yourself to the rules as set forth by said establishment. Sometimes the establishment is fair and sometimes you find yourself wishing you had never been there and wanting your money back.for my part, I don't find that I go up to the manager of a chain of restaurants I don't like and outline however I feel necessary that their food is a load of suckage just because I don't like it personally, and I'd expect that if I did it enough or said it rudely enough I'd probably have the cops called on me at the very least for this little thing called harassment. if we take the all truth is relative idea and use it here to justify that my perception is right and their's is wrong, then I am not harassing. On the other hand, I'm sure that if they walked into my house and told me it was a pigpen and yelled at me because they feel it could be cleaned more efficiently, then yelled at me because the volume of my music is not comfortable to them and suggested that I either turn it off or use headphones, then started complaining about my wallpaper, my floor being carpeted, my pillows not having enough puff and fluff and whatever else it is they feel constitutes a comfortable pillow and a comfortable house, I would probably tell them to leave immediately and call it harassment if they refused and kept going, even if they don't see it as such.The bottom line is that there is a bottom line. Would you find it hard to believe that I don't like bottom lines and absolutes? I hate them! I hate them worse than I hate onions! Which I hate with a passion! I'm fond of joking with people and say ing, "While you were sitting on your cute little chair in pre-school coloring between the lines, I made my own!" But it doesn't work that way in the real world. You can yell at your wife for not making you what you deem a proper sandwitch, and I think if you do it just the right way she'll at the very least want to take the plate and throw it in your face, even if all she ever does is tell you to make your own. Somebody has to show courtesy to break that chain or it will continue to grow into something else. In this community, not only do we believe that you and the rest of the gamers within it should act with courtesy toward developers, but that developers should maintain a professional relationship with gamers. It's part of the reason we've grown to distrust certain types of posts such as those that say something along the lines of "My company called claim to fame gaming is making a game and even while you've ne ver heard of me here's a demo and you should support me and I want the money up front and the game will be released within the next x amount of months." Admitedly, I think we are a little harder on the gamers than on the devs, and part of the reason is that gamers more often come out here to display their oppinions in a distasteful way than developers do.So, to conclude, on this forum, you can do it; sure you can! And you will find that it won't be allowed here on this forum if you cross the line... It's just that plain and simple. it's not a give and take relationship on either side. Some developers are just as into gaming as we are and give because of it. Some gamers are so into gaming that they become developers. We tell you not to insult on either side because you just never know who's toes you might be stepping on. Sometimes, I personally feel like this is common sense, and I think you're right a bout the idea that we shouldn't have to parent anyone, but that's just another thing you're gonna see in any community, social platform, online game or anything else that has sensible rules. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.ph
Re: I'm seriously concerned
2016-11-15
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned That's the point though. I don't mind people who disagree with my opinion, -- it's going to happen. It's happening, and it's happened. And yes, that happens all over the internet, school, work, families everywhere. But I do not find, that when arguing or protesting politics, again, the president or government officials informing us that we aught to shut up or they're just going to up and leave. In fact, the people who have opinions that the rest of us have no lives or whatever, again I only view them as your every day stuck up I'm everything type of person. It's those who either possess, or assume an administrative or parental type of role in this community, and inform us what we should be saying, or we're just ungrateful entitled little children and all our developers are just up and leaving because we refuse to accept being conned over and over again by some person who claims to be making such a great game for us.No Dark, not ev eryone can be nice to each other, and I fear this is something the blind community will have to accept. I understand if it's a mob thread of "I hate this go die in a hole you bloody fool", how that can be intolerable, but I shouldn't have to be called out for writing a rant, which by the way justifies my reasons for being angry in the post, because someone "thinks" I shouldn't be ranting. It shouldn't be thrown in my face that no one will developer for me or this community because I'm such an ungrateful, entitled little brat. No: just like the teens playing X Box or Play Station, I'm going to yell at a developer if they continue throwing out release dates for a game I ordered and not getting it out. Just as the adults of society, I will continue to lash out at those who are trying to make me and the community look like foolish little nothings who they can just pacify while they take our money and who knows, -- cackle or something?The rest of the world has freedom of speech, so so should this community. Sure, nonsense insults and flames and spam shouldn't be accepted, of course not, that's just trolling. But I just can't get the idea wrapped around my head that I should just accept how things are, considering the lives of all the game developers and giving them excuses as to why they are not holding to their self appointed obligations (in the case of money anyway), or have administrators or (and by that I mean the admins of online communities don't belong in this), self appointed higher ups tel me to play nice with everyone or be deserted. If this is a give me your money if you want my product, and then play nice with me or I'm abandoning it so you only get part of what you paid for kind of thing... -- well I don't know what to say. But If I release and charge for a project of mine, I want to be informed when my players feel neglected because I run off and don't listen to them. And if I so happen to be busy for a while and get negative comments in return, I will be irritated when first looking at them, but then I have to remember: I charged for this product. I have, these users' money. If I can't handle the responsibility of running this game for them in a way they will enjoy, then why am I doing it in the first place? Microsoft doesn't make windows just because they have some free time on their hands. They don't make the X Box so they can play games while at work. They do it not only for the money, but they continue updating it so people will have a better experience. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285947#p285947 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
2016-11-15
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned That's the point though. I don't mind people who disagree with my opinion, -- it's going to happen. It's happening, and it's happened. And yes, that happens all over the internet, school, work, families everywhere. But I do not find, that when arguing or protesting politics, again, the president or government officials informing us that we aught to shut up or they're just going to up and leave. In fact, the people who have opinions that the rest of us have no lives or whatever, again I only view them as your every day stuck up I'm everything type of person. It's those who either possess, or assume an administrative or parental type of role in this community, and inform us what we should be saying, or we're just ungrateful entitled little children and all our developers are just up and leaving because we refuse to accept being conned over and over again by some person who claims to be making such a great game for us.No Dark, not ev eryone can be nice to each other, and I fear this is something the blind community will have to accept. I understand if it's a mob thread of "I hate this go die in a hole you bloody fool", how that can be intolerable, but I shouldn't have to be called out for writing a rant, which by the way justifies my reasons for being angry in the post, because someone "thinks" I shouldn't be ranting. It shouldn't be thrown in my face that no one will developer for me or this community because I'm such an ungrateful, entitled little brat. No: just like the teens playing X Box or Play Station, I'm going to yell at a developer if they continue throwing out release dates for a game I ordered and not getting it out. Just as the adults of society, I will continue to lash out at those who are trying to make me and the community look like foolish little nothings who they can just pacify while they take our money and who knows, -- cackle or something?The rest of the world has freedom of speech, so so should this community. Sure, nonsense insults and flames and spam shouldn't be accepted, of course not, that's just trolling. But I just can't get the idea wrapped around my head that I should just accept how things are, considering the lives of all the game developers and giving them excuses as to why they are not holding to their self appointed obligations (in the case of money anyway), or have administrators or (and by that I mean the admins of online communities don't belong in this), self appointed higher ups tel me to play nice with everyone or be deserted. If this is a give me your money if you want my product, and then play nice with me or I'm abandoning it so you only get part of what you paid for kind of thing... -- well I don't know what to say. But If I release and charge for a project of mine, I want to be informed when my players feel neglected because I run off and don't listen to them. And if I so happen to be busy for a while and get negative comments in return, I will be irritated when first looking at them, but then I have to remember: I charged for this product. I have, these users' money. If I can't handle the responsibility of running this game for them in a way they will enjoy, then why am I doing it in the first place? Microsoft doesn't make windows just so they can have some free time on their hand. They don't make the X Box so they can play games while at work. They do it not only for the money, but they continue updating it so people will have a better experience. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285947#p285947 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned Oh by George, Ringo John and Paul! Okay, there are a lot of different issues in this topic that are being somewhat conflated into one matter. First, there is a huge difference between constructive and destructive criticism. Constructive criticism is intended to help someone improve something: eg: "it would be good if you did so and so" Ie, it has a positive bent and an intent to improve things. Destructive criticism is negative, eg, "this is terrible because so and so" Now the simple answer is to say that all destructive criticism is bad, however that's not always the case, since there can be cases when for example if you've paid for something and not recieved it letting people know of your generalized irritation can be adviseable, though even here it is better to say "I'm annoyed because of so and so", or "such and such is irritating me" rather than automatically condemnin g whatever it is. These are all comments that are true when dealing with people, and the vast majority of the time, that's who developers are. Just people who make things on their own. Yes, they need to have comments and criticism,and that criticism needs to be honest, but equally they need to be dealt with politely. Basically if you wouldn't say it to a friend who cooked you a meal, don't say it to a developer or anyone else. One second problem is that of opinion. On the internet the "it's all opinion! It's just my opinion!" is used like a club to beat others into submission and for people to justify saying whatever they like. Again though, there is a big difference between having an opinion and how that opinion is expressed, particularly I'll say because what often happenes online is when one person voices a negative comments, a couple of other people start off with them and the flame wagon gets arollin', indeed most of the situations I tend to have to intervine with moderator wise are often of this type, where frankly mob rule takes over. So, it's a balancing act, on the one hand not being actively dishonest or pandering in the name of politeness, but on the other not expressing opinions in such an overbearingly negative way that they come across as just bashing, and still worse, start the flame fest going. Now as to developers. firstly, developers are people who want feedback. if they didn't want feedback on something they wouldn't be on this forum, therefore if something is wrong, the developer does need to know. On the other hand, developers are! people, mostly just people working on their own. They're not huge coorporations who don't care about anyone's opinion, there just guys and girls who work on soemthing. So a good rule I'd advise is, if you wouldn't say it to a person who cooked you a meal, don't say it to a dev, or at least find a way to say it without getting overtly personal, particularly because as I said the bashing can go way too far. on the other hand, if you see someone criticising unjustly, telling them of their own bad virtues and starting a personal arguement is not going to help much either, again, as I have said before, keep any comments on the subject at hand, because just as people love to pitch in when a bad opinion is expressed, people are equally quick to polarize about! a bad opinion, and bashing of some people for their views by others is hjust as bad as needless bashing of a given game or subject. All of these are fairly general comments and could occur on any forum that involves people who produce things independently from games to books to films. blindness and the blind community are another matter. I've noticed that people throw out the word "entitled" as though it is an insult in many different contexts and debates, whether to do with sp am, flaming, games or goodness knows what else. Frankly that is why I would always look at comments about criticism just based on that criticism. Again there are a few different sides to the hole question of "entitlement" and what is and is not reasonable adjustments to be made in terms of disability, and what are and are not reasonable things for blind people to do or what blindness might justify. However to bring this into a debate about criticism and netiquette is again quite conflating the matter since the two issues are rather separate, and as I said, a discussion of the personal motives or other views of someone who holds an opposing opinion to you probably won't make a lot of sense and just cause further problems. So in conclusion, why the hell can't people just be nice to each other for a change? . URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285934#p285934 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned *Gets halfway through first post*Eh, no, that's not a blind people thing. That's a people-in-general thing.*Keeps reading*Yp, I still don't think this needs to be an identity-politics-thing. Yes, we're talking about patterns of behavior in the blind community, and yes, we're talking about a uniquely tiny and unreliable environment when it comes to accessible software and the like.but there's nothing unique about:Complainingcalling out a pattern of behaviorwhiningcomplaining about whiningover-reacting to genuine and constructive criticism as though your life has been threatened or somethingComplaining about any combination of the aboverepeat ad infinitumThere are genuine bad apples complaining--I avoid reading powder-keg type threads, but I'm confident this is true because I've been on the internet for way too long.There are genuine bad apples complaining about complaining.Be constructive, blast it. I don't care if you're a complainer or a meta-complainer or neither. If you made something which has a lot of problems that you'd want to fix if you understood them, how would you want them pointed out to you? Then realize that everyone doesn't think or feel the same way.(There are, indeed, people out there who will take the slightest, gentlist constructive criticism as an excuse to tell people that they are ungrateful curs who need to sing praise or shut up. As a general rule, we only ever hear about these people when they do something people actually need/want, because otherwise, that sort of behavior isn't tolerated. ... did I say otherwise? Because that shouldn't be tolerated ever.)(There are, indeed, people out there who are jerks and don't "complain" so much as put down. There are people wh o don't seem to get the difference between being a jerk or a bully, and making things better.)What do you want the community to look like? What sorts of posts do you dislike but are willing to tolerate, and what sorts of posts do you want to outright forbid?I remember a forum that had built up a large and difficult-to-police community, which was always growing and had lots of members who started out as awful rebels who made everything worse, then got over themselves and actually participated. Eventually, after several years, the owners added an "ignore" feature. What could possibly go wrong? :-/ URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285927#p285927 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned And we can't forget the "let's not complain or Microsoft/Apple/Google will take Narrator/Voiceover/Chromevox/Talkback out of there devices or something. After all, we should all be grateful for what we have, what these great companies have given us, and never, ever, want even more from the future. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285917#p285917 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned Hi then I have a lot of questions. 1 what is the softest manner of complaining?kindly or please words if someone adds in his.her poststhen wether it should be listened or not. 2we know that we belongs to the minority group. so what do you think whether the government should excludedly provides the facilities or just includes us whether the society and the people are worth while to include? 3why sometimes people want more even they know the game developer have set up some rules? either we have to accept their apologies or ban them? if we ban them how the blind community will grow? because after all they are blind and our brothers and sisters. ThanksIshan URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285912#p285912 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned This topic is the best topic I have scene on this audio games forum in absolutely months... I think that is putting what 80 percent of us are thinking into words. This has happened to me on many occasions, more than I really care to remember right now. If anyone remembers the Microsoft Sam for the i phone joke I played on twitter, certain people started telling me that blindies have no lives and they like to sit on there asses all day and waste other peoples times. I think everyone is entitled to there opinion and if that's the opinion so be it, but at the same time it shows that this person thought they were higher up than me, that they did better than me, right as they started insulting me. I think that this is one of the best examples. Some people seem to think there the best or something... I don't know really, but they think that they have the right to yell at us as call us stupid blindies wasting time and to them, I'm not allowed to play a simple harmless joke . My point is not to point fingers and I hope that I haven't done that, but to simply share a couple of things that happened to me that show Steve's point very well. Thing is guys, in my opinion, I stretch to say opinion, feel free to disagree because I don't have the want or need to put my self in a higher position than anyone else here, but with that said my opinion is that we are all, equal. People have the right to say what ever they want really, but my opinion is that these insults that get thrown at us, and the control some people try to tell us and the manipulation, people trying to show that there better, I think it is rediculis. I think that we are all 100 percent equal. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285901#p285901 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned That is why I try not to get involved with the blind, especially the main stream blind or any of there groups, I find them to be very rood. A lot of blind people don't like politics and they have the idea that they need to dictate what I say. They think when I support are president that I am supporting a person who hates blind people and wants to put them out on the street. The blind think that anyone who makes fun of them doesn't like the blind. Well news flash I make fun of my self all the time. And no I'm not saying that when I support the president that I want to kick blind people out on there buts and make them homeless. That is not the point. People think that when a man says something about a reporter that has a disability that the person automatically hates disabled people. The blind can't think for them selves. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285898#p285898 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
2016-11-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned I would, and here's why:Those are just certain people. It's not everyone in the community. "This is just stupid, it's a worthless piece of crap!", comments like that, I can get. But when it's a hostile fed up comment, such as I've been told off for posting on Gyro's topic about a game he won't release, then I have to stop and say, woe! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285896#p285896 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned Hi Steve,A very good post.I definitely agree that we have the right to express our opinions and give feedback. However, I feel that we really need to make sure that we express ourselves in a non-hostile manner, when possible. I definitely see where some of those people are coming from, though. I'm not naming any names, but I've thought more than once that many people in the blind community seem to have this sense of entitlement, and when some of them don't get what they feel they deserve, they can become quite nasty, and it has left me feeling appalled on several occasions, that people around my age, and sometimes even older, can suddenly revert to the behavior of spoiled children. That may sound harsh, but there you have it.This is the real world, and in the real world, we're not entitled to everything. We can ask for things to change, but throwing a fit over it is only going to make things worse for us, and may even give the rest of the com munity a bad reputation.I don't know about you, but if I were a sighted app developer, for example, and someone sent me a really rude message about making my apps work with VoiceOver or Talkback, I wouldn't feel very inclined to work on it, now or ever. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285892#p285892 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I'm seriously concerned
Re: I'm seriously concerned Hi Steve,A very good post.I definitely agree that we have the right to express our opinions and give feedback. However, I feel that we really need to make sure that we express ourselves in a non-hostile manner, when possible. I definitely see where some of those people are coming from, though. I'm not naming any names, but I've thought more than once that many people in the blind community seem to have this sense of entitlement, and when some of them don't get what they feel they deserve, they can become quite nasty, and it has left me feeling appalled on several occasions, that people around my age, and sometimes even older, can suddenly revert to the behavior of spoiled children. That may sound harsh, but there you have it.This is the real world, and in the real world, we're not entitled to everything. We can ask for things to change, but throwing a fit over it is only going to make things worse for us, and may even give the rest of the com munity a bad reputation.I don't know about you, but if I were an app developer, and someone sent me a really rude message about making my apps work with VoiceOver or Talkback, I wouldn't feel very inclined to work on it, now or ever. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=285892#p285892 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
I'm seriously concerned
2016-11-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
I'm seriously concerned Hi all, I do not mean the below post to be condemnatory to anyone in this community, and I know what you're thinking, I'm not writing another one of those "blind community is horrible because" posts that we've all seen at some point. But honestly, there is something that is really concerning me. See, in the environment in which I was raised, I've been taught that just because I'm blind, I don't deserve to be set apart and treated completely different from people just like me, only with a bit more use for their eyes. I was still allowed to be myself, learn like everyone else, and do what I wanted as long as it didn't get me in trouble. But as I've come more into the blind community, I've began to find something, that has become more and more clear to me over the years. I guess it is because we're so small, and there are a number of us who could perhaps be more sheltered than most due to our condition. I'm not calling anyone out or looking down upon anyone, but it's a fact. But for whatever reason, there are those of us who seem to take it upon themselves as playing a sort of parental role: telling the rest of us we need to calm down, that we're acting entitled and going as far as implying we're a disgrace to this community and giving it a bad rep, informing us of what we should do with our opinions (stop complaining, stop ranting because it does nothing, be constructive etc), and last but not least they have been known at time to try and manipulate us by informing us we should be grateful for x developer or y game, no matter if we feel that the game's powers that be are compromising our gaming experience, the game is being poorly maintained, or we're not getting what we paid for. In fact, there was an instance a couple weeks ago where I spotted a community member's post informing us all that a certain developer had worked tireles sly to create the game we were reporting more bugs than praises on, which by the way hadn't been updated in several months and is ran on a subscription based payment system, and told us all that we should just renew our accounts, get on and make it like it was before, and stop complaining so the developer wouldn't have so much negativity to weed through. See, my problem is this. We all are aware that in this world we live in, nothing is unanimously liked: I do not just mean product wise, I mean opinion and how opinion is stated. I myself get irritated when someone else tells me my opinion is wrong, but it's usually a quick flash and then I remember hey, I don't like your opinion. And you probably don't like my opinion that your opinion that mine is wrong is, well, wrong. But who cares? Opinions. It's not hurting anyone. No, what I have a problem with is:1. It is these people who believe they actually have, the right, to dictate how so meone states an opinion because perhaps the wording or punctuation did not conform to their guidelines of what is and what is not cringe worthy. 2. It is those people who believe it is their position to inform those of us who have something to say that is longer than what they'd prefer to read on the subject matter that we should stop ranting, because it "helps nothing". 3. It is those, people, who tell us our opinion helps nothing when we have something negative to say, but encourage it when it is something that would make the developer smile, I.E. A compliment, a nicely worded suggestion, or, similar to point number 1, not something they personally find discouraging. Please, do feel free to correct me, but only excepting opinion based on what, according to your mind set, is rude or not, is quite a definite form of bigotry. And again, it's not the opinions of those above 3 things I find completely unjustified. No, because if it was, would n't this whole post be a big wet slop of gourmet bigotry at its finest? No, it's the fact that, as stated in the above paragraphs, some people take it upon themselves to "reign in" those whom they feel are going out of line, by these standards. "I think some people need to calm down" and "some people just need to calm down" are two different things. But that's not even the main point either: what right does anyone have to tell me that opinions like mine are a disgrace to the blind community? What right does a single member of this community have to tell me that I should knock off my "entitled" attitude because it is causing the game developers they seem to revere so much to up and quit? That's not opinion, that's attempt to force someone to conform based on manipulation. And the way I see it is, people complain all the time in the real world. People speak out, fight for what they want, etc in the real world. Others sti ll, inform them of their not so fond opinion of their complaining. But the president of the United States does not tell the protesters to just shut up, because they're the reason previous
