Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-12-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Dgleks via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Moderation:@mjonsson1986, I'm going to go ahead and issue you a warning. This is not the first time that you've gone out of your way to intentionally revive this topic, while simultaneously attempting to stir the pot. You're more than welcome to create a topic if you have questions or concerns that pertain to the rules here (so long as you do so respectfully and like an adult), but bringing back old topics simply to criticize the policies we've set fourth (without even attempting to be constructive) is not okay.No one is making you stay here. You're more than welcome to leave this forum and start your own if you're unhappy with the rules and guidelines put in place.I'm also going to go ahead and lock this topic, since the discussion here has long since ended and to avoid potential revivals in the future. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/596927/#p596927 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-12-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : haily_merry via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Bro, seriously. There are more productive ways to show your displessure than bringing back old topics once a month. For someone supposedly born in 1986, you're sure not acting like it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/596789/#p596789 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-12-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : mjonsson1986 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! defender wrote:@mjonsson1986Which rules do you have a problem with. Right now it just sounds as if you're complaining about the fact that there are any rules at all.the fact that admins remove links because the link can get you to ilegal software URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/596735/#p596735 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-11-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : haily_merry via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Lol yeah, I was thinking that too. Love that guy's videos, a shame he rarely uploads any more. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/591432/#p591432 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-11-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Turret via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Yeah and the point of reviving this was? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/591426/#p591426 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-11-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : connor142 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! @164 nope, but I do tend to watch thunderbirds101 video series, like Microsoft Sam reads funny Windows errors. You get... ideas like that here. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/591420/#p591420 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-11-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Thumbs up at 163. I was going to ask if you'd ever tried that in theory to come up with such a spot on analogy, but I don't know if I really want to know the answer... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/591389/#p591389 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-11-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : connor142 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! You know, I usually don't care much about thread necromancy, and I don't understand why it's hated on so much here. But out of all the topics on this forum that are filled with good content and sound advice, did you really have to bring back *this* one? That's like someone going to the toilet, flushing it, then scooping out all the dump with a really long scooper after the toilet is flushed, then taking another dump on it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/591334/#p591334 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-11-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! @mjonsson1986Which rules do you have a problem with. Right now it just sounds as if you're complaining about the fact that there are any rules at all. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/591225/#p591225 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-11-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! It's not blocked, it's saying that because it would turn up too many damn results. The forum search sucks ass and always has. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/591224/#p591224 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-11-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : JayJay via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! What the fuck? Did you really bring back a 5 Month old topic to say that? I mean, I'm contributing to the pointlessness myself, but I actually thought someone brought it back to say something of importance, but meh. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/591219/#p591219 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-11-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : mjonsson1986 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! this is why i plan to leave this forum. this stupid rules. and the blocked words you cant search for. try to search for windows xp for example URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/591199/#p591199 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-11-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : mjonsson1986 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! this is why i plan to leave this forum. this stupid rules URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/591199/#p591199 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Nocturnis, I actually agree with your overarching point that we may not be able to process absolutely everything, and while it might be morally correct and/or legally correct, it might be more hassle than it's worth to exclude absolutely everything that has even one pirated asset. This, too, is why I'm not chomping at the bit to tear the database apart.My view, both as an individual and as an admin, however, is that Crazy Part is a done deal. Its creator willingly used copyrighted assets in order to cash in on the publicity of previously existing series, which means that any attempt at fair use goes pretty much out the window. No permission was sought or granted for the use of these assets. And whether or not they're encrypted, they're still being used in bad faith and against known copyright. so for me, Crazy Party is still a slam dunk. A few other things might be as well.For me, thist absolutely does mean that I think it's time we really tried to thrash this out as a staff team again, particularly as Pragma rejected a chance to update his sounds and music even when told that the community was willing to put in the work. What it does not mean is that every game with even one pirated asset will face immediate takedown. Copyright issues are sticky, and piracy is generally not something we want to push or allow on the forums for obvious reasons, but that does not, as you pointed out, mean we have to burn down the whole database.Now, with that said, can I make a plea to all future developers? Please, for the love of crumbcake, try very, very hard to use your own assets, or to legally obtain the right to use the assets you do put into your products. If we know that piracy is not going to be tolerated in this community, and we still want to make great audio games, let's make those two realizations work together and stop accepting sub-par standards where it comes to other people's material. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/533068/#p533068 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-24
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Zarvox via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! some of the music in cp is remixes pulled from youtube, so I guess in one way that is a loophole, but they are also not giving credit to those who made the remixes. And thinking more as I write, that might even be worse since those small creators are not going to copyright their work, it is a simple remix, and one based from something else at that. Obviously, the cp team isn't goign around saying, oh this person has a remix, since they don't have copyright let's use it. They just want to use it because it sounds cool. But still. Also, why are they using horrible horrible quality tracks? If you are going to pirate, get the best quality you can find! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/533049/#p533049 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-24
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Zarvox via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! some of the music in cp is remixes pulled from youtube, so I guess in one way that is a loophole, but they are also not giving credit to those who made the remixes. And thinking more as a write, that might eve n e worse since those small creators are not going to copyright their work, it is a simple remix, an d one based from something else at that. Of course, the cp team isn't goign around saying, oh this person has a remix, since they don't have copyright let's use it. They just want to use it because it sounds cool. But still. Also, why are they using horrible horrible quality tracks? If you are going to pirate, get the best quality you can find! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/533049/#p533049 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-24
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : superb via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! +1 to post 155. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532936/#p532936 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-24
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Alright, I'll bite, as Jayde said elsewhere. :d@151, Thanks for that one. I'll remember no rights reserved. I wrote all rights rejected as I personally rejected and waved all my rights to my own writing and basically stated do as you will with it. Still, that does make it sound like I'm saying reject rights to legal content, which is not what I'm saying. I appreciate the correction but will leave it there to showcase, once again, just how other people can help me even as I help others.@152, the same is true of just about any mainstream game. Programs have been written to extract sound from many, particularly older titles, and some of those sounds have found their way onto youtube videos. The fact is that anything assembled can be disassembled. More to the point though, as I said in 150, there are paid products that already provide sounds very accessibly from within their folder structure, not encrypted or even with an ounce of thought toward the idea of hiding them. To extract the sounds, as you say, the general consumer/gamer has to go out of their way to obtain something called the pack extractor, or code yet another product. That is clearly an issue with the user and not the developer.@153, thanks. I'm doing my best to remain as unbiased as usual. I can't do all the research on my own though; I have a wife and kids. I'm sure there's more I can dig up on all the subject under discussion, but I can honestly say that for the time being I've done my best and given you all something to run with. It'll be up to you guys to cary the ball from here on out. Use it wisely and tread on legal waters for the sake of this community.@154, here again, you have to take steps to get that done. You have to make sure stereomix is enabled, something which does not happen on many machines by default nowadays. You also have to make sure you set up audio recording software to record from stereomix. Yes, these are easy matters, but they're still steps you have to take, much like recording music from a radio station from a cassette player in the 90's. the quality is also not ensured, meaning that while you will end up with a copy of the track if you take said steps, your copy will not entirely match the track in question.All that being said, I see what you're getting at here, but once again I freely confess I just can't fully stand behind it all given the overall gravity of the situation. To fully excecute what you're suggesting you're going to have to put a ton, probably most of the database on the burner right now. I feel like you're placing to much responsibility on yourself and the panel. It's up to the users and the developers to figure out how to wisely use products and services. This is why user licenses exist and why consumers should make themselves aware of what they're getting into when they go about tampering with said products and services when they use them. Cautioning people and developers praticularly is one thing, but threatening to pull the plug on them and baby them and hold their hand does not teach them how to face consequences in the real world. As soon as you find out CP is being pursued as an illegal product by companies wanting their royalties or some other such matter, then you can certainly pull the plug on the product and say "We tried to tell you."For the time being, however, there are far too many games in question that have engaged in, at the very least, questionable practices over the years as I pointed out in 150. The question before you that you should heavily be asking is, how far are you willing to go, and what for, precisely? It's one thing to want to steer the website clear of legal issues, and I think you've done a commendable job. On the other hand, what if it seriously means you have to get rid of a myriad of entries in the database because, A, developers are not around and will not change the way their games have been coded to meet up to a set of standards, B, some of the sounds have been miraculously proven to be illegally used even in paid products and or, C, there is some other legal issue we just haven't even considered, much as was the case with this issue we are trying to tackle at present, which was not an issue throughout the 10 years I've been out here?: Should we then treat every single game as suspect from now on because it has sounds that sound all too familiar? If that is the case, I think less people will be likely to download something because they'll always be afraid of getting into trouble for doing so, or you'll see way less entries in the database and less people willing to develop because the steps required to submit an entry will be much more stringent than they are at present. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532921/#p532921 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-b
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-24
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Alright, I'll bite, as Jayde said elsewhere. :d@151, Thanks for that one. I'll remember no rights reserved. I wrote all rights rejected as I personally rejected and waved all my rights to my own writing and basically stated do as you will with it. Still, that does make it sound like I'm saying reject rights to legal content, which is not what I'm saying. I appreciate the correction but will leave it there to showcase, once again, just how other people can help me even as I help others.@152, the same is true of just about any mainstream game. Programs have been written to extract sound from many, particularly older titles, and some of those sounds have found their way onto youtube videos. The fact is that anything assembled can be disassembled. More to the point though, as I said in 150, there are paid products that already provide sounds very accessibly from within their folder structure, not encrypted or even with an ounce of thought toward the idea of hiding them. To extract the sounds, as you say, the general consumer/gamer has to go out of their way to obtain something called the pack extractor, or code yet another product. That is clearly an issue with the user and not the developer.@153, thanks. I'm doing my best to remain as unbiased as usual. I can't do all the research on my own though; I have a wife and kids. I'm sure there's more I can dig up on all the subject under discussion, but I can honestly say that for the time being I've done my best and given you all something to run with. It'll be up to you guys to cary the ball from here on out. Use it wisely and tread on legal waters for the sake of this community.@154, here again, you have to take steps to get that done. You have to make sure stereomix is enabled, something which does not happen on many machines by default nowadays. You also have to make sure you set up audio recording software to record from stereomix. Yes, these are easy matters, but they're still steps you have to take, much like recording music from a radio station from a cassette player in the 90's. the quality is also not ensured, meaning that while you will end up with a copy of the track if you take said steps, your copy will not entirely match the track in question.All that being said, I see what you're getting at here, but once again I freely confess I just can't fully stand behind it all given the overall gravity of the situation. To fully excecute what you're suggesting you're going to have to put a ton, probably most of the database on the burner right now. I feel like you're placing to much responsibility on yourself and the panel. It's up to the users and the developers to figure out how to wisely use products and services. This is why user licenses exist and why consumers should make themselves aware of what they're getting into when they go about tampering with said products and services when they use them. Cautioning people and developers praticularly is one thing, but threatening to pull the plug on them and baby them and hold their hand does not teach them how to face consequences in the real world. As soon as you find out CP is being pursued as an illegal product by companies wanting their royalties or some other such matter, then you can certainly pull the plug on the product and say "We tried to tell you."For the time being, however, there are far too many games in question that have engaged in, at the very least, questionable practices over the years as I pointed out in 150. The question before you that you should heavily be asking is, how far are you willing to go, and what for, precisely? It's one thing to want to steer the website clear of legal issues, and I think you've done a commendable job. On the other hand, what if it seriously means you have to get rid of a myriad of entries in the database because, A, developers are not around and will not change the way their games have been coded to meet up to a set of standards, B, some of the sounds have been miraculously proven to be illegally used even in paid products and or, C, there is osme other legal issue we just haven't even considered, much as was the case with this isue we are tryi8ng to tackle at present, which was not an issue throughout the 10 years I've been out here?: Should we then treat every single game as suspect from now on becauseit has sounds that sound all too familiar? If that is the case, I think less people will be likely to download something because they'll always be afraid of getting into trouble for doing so, or you'll see way less entries in the database and less people willing to develop because the steps required to submit an entry will be much more stringent than they are at present. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532921/#p532921 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-b
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! There's also the issue that the music files, encrypted though they are, are not similarly obscured by other sounds. Dozens of them are pirated. The game could probably be taken down with the pirated music assets alone. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532888/#p532888 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! +1 to 150 URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532871/#p532871 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-24
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : connor142 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! @150 there's one problem here though. CP's sounds are only packed, not encrypted. This means that anyone with either the bgt pack extractor, or enough programming knowledge to write an extracting script of their own (the required functions are right there in the function reference) can unpack the sounds from the data file and do what they wish with them. There is no key protecting them. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532851/#p532851 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Jaseoffire via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Hmm. Interesting. First, the phrase you may wish to use is No rights Reserved, as I do believe that is the tagline for Creative Commons zero/public domain licensing. As for the excerpt of that contract you presenting, given that it seems to be a seperated list, seperated by commas, could CP fall under a product or service that is not Nintendo's? I am having trouble seeing anything in that language's mark-up that says it has to meet any additional requirements. We should also be careful, as due to all this anyways, we've long since fallen through the ice on the matter of should have known in the event this does become an issue. On that note, though, 150 does make a good point in that if this was to become an issue, chances are the webmasters would be contacted before more pressing legal actions were taken. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532822/#p532822 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! I'd like to post in here one more time and then forget about this topic. As someone who relys heavily on sound and generally invests a ton of time on audio production and sound design and someone who has the community's best interest in mind, my aim in this particular post is now to settle this debate once and for all. I know there will always and forever be skeptics, but studdying over the past week or so that this topic has been going has left me with no doubt that what I'm about to write is in fact the only way forward and will in essence get the ball rolling in the right direction again. I couldn't be absolutely certain when I first began writing on here, which is why I tried to shift the conversation to one of how copyright law is broken; it is. That having been said, the terms in licensing, are not; If you are a mod/admin for ag net, a developer who wants to hopefully have his or her games included on ag net or somewhere in between I urge you to please read this post carefully and pass its information around if necessary. Nocturnal post Copyright Saturday, may 23rd, 2020, all rights rejected. Redistribution of the information in this post is proactively encouraged and yada yada yada, blah blah.So, lets get some technical crud out of the way in this section concerning copyright. It does exist and is supposed to protect from people profiting from other people's work. In essence and in the scope of this particular discussion, the idea here is that if you create/ produce/record a sound for wider consumption or broadcasting purposes someone else should not be able to take credit for it or unfairly profit from it.Notice I said unfairly profit? Awhile back on this particular topic the concept of fair use was brought up, and that raised the question of what precisely fair use was and how it applies to this discussion, if in fact it applies at all. In order to get into that particular aspect of this discussion, though, we're going to have to get into something called licensing, a separate concept altogether from copyright.Licenses are important to understand. when you purchase/download individual sounds or sound libraries what you are actually doing is buying/obtaining the ability to use them; you do not own them. Licenses vary from one company to another, so it would be in your best interest to understand the terms by which you are bound when purchasing/downloading sound effects. Overall, however, there are basics that apply across the board owing to similarities in how the licenses are written.1. Practically all sound design companies allow syncronization rights. What this means is that if you use sounds in a sound sequence you are in fact using the sounds as they should be used. If, for example, you have three sounds and you have in mind that those three sounds should be used in a sound sequence, provided that none of those sounds are isolated in such a way that they could then be redistributed as single sounds, you're in the clear.2. Licenses for sound effects are generally granted for perpetual use, meaning that they can be used and reused and reused and reused infinitely provided you have access to them and have obtained them by legal means.without further payment.3. In addition, provided that you have obtained sounds and or sound libraries legally, you are also free to store them as necessary for backup purposes.4. Redistribution of sounds or sound libraries is generally not allowed as it deprives the copyright holder fair profit from their product. Others should have to download or otherwise legally obtain the sound.5. Network sharing and or transfer is generally prohibited and frowned down upon.6. In many instances attribution is required. Wherever it is possible, particularly as it pertains to royalty free music and sound effects it is necessary or at the very least courteous to mension composers, audio producers and sound designers so that credit is given where credit is do.All of this is important because as stated previously, many sounds have been used and reused throughout the blind community, mostly by audio games. Whether free or paid, titles include but are not limited to, Swamp, Lunimals, Rs-Games, QuentinC's playroom, Super Liam, Judgment Day, Shades of Doom, Tank Commander, Time of Conflict, q9, Jungle, Alien outback, the Alter Aeon mush-z soundpack, the miriani soundpack used for VIP-mud, audioquake, all spoonbill games, all kitchensink games, light Cars, Light Locater, and on and on we could go probably throughout the entirety of the database. In at least two of the instances I've mentioned, the sounds are readily available for anyone who downloads the games in their own folder. Whether this was an oversight of the developer or flat out intentional is beyond me and I honestly don't care, nor do I believe has anyone else, until now. The issue is now being discussed because as it currently stands
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : an idiot via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! There’s no way he wouldn’t have mentioned that he had permission. That would have put a stop to the sound effort all together. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532754/#p532754 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! I mean, I guess it's technically possible that he has permission, but there's evidence against it:1. When a thread about updating the sounds was made, nobody once suggested that he actually had permission to use the current sounds.2. I think it extremely unlikely that Nintendo would willingly grant someone the right to use their assets in a free project, much less a paid one. They might not care to take it down if they found out, but I think they'd be extremely unlikely to grant permission if asked.With this in mind, I feel that the onus would be on Pragma or others to prove that they have permission, instead of being on us to prove that they don't. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532739/#p532739 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! I mean, I guess it's technically possible that he has permission, but there's evidence against it:1. When a thread about updating the sounds was made, nobody once suggested that he actually had permission to use the current sounds.2. I think it extremely unlikely that Nintendo would willingly grant someone the right to use their assets in a free project, much less a paid one. They might not care to take it down if they found out, but I think they'd be extremely unlikely to grant permission if asked. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532739/#p532739 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-23
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AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Aron Leppik via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! @ignatriayI'm 99.9 % sure that he didn't. Listen to the coin sound for example. It sounds like it was recorded or ripped off of some yt video. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532705/#p532705 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ignatriay via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Here is the problem. Some of us want the sounds to be changed, myself incluted, and yes, i'm one of those who is capable of giving a hand. However, the dev, is not interested in this, so what's next? Find a way to somehow change the sounds and force pragma to change them because of piracy? If the one who owns the project, in this case CP, is not willing to be given a hand, what legal ways can we prociede. On the other hand, have any of you considered the following, what if pragma actually got permission to use the sounds? I'm playing the devil's advocate once again as this is highly unlikely, however, what if this was true? The whole argument of, piracy woule be void in that case, however there is no way of actually finding if this is the case and he obtained permission to do this. This is highly unlikely, however. It far more likely the sounds where pirated. Unless we can get pragma to join the discussion here and say if he pirated the sounds used or not, we'll just be going round in circles on this matter. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532699/#p532699 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ignatriay via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Here is the problem. Some of us want the sounds to be changed, myself incluted, and yes, i'm one of those who is capable of giving a hand. However, the dev, is not interested in this, so what's next? Find a way to somehow change the sounds and force pragma to change them because of piracy? If the one who owns the project, in this case cp, is not willing to be given a hand, what legal ways can we prociede. On the other hand, have any of you considered the following, what if pragma actually got permission to use the sounds? I'm playing the devil's advocate once again as this is highly unlikely, however, what if this was true? The whole argument of, piracy woule be void in that case, however there is no way of actually finding if this is the case and he obtained permission to do this. This is highly unlikely, however. It far more likely the sounds where pirated. Unless we can get pragma to join the discussion here and say if he pirated the sounds used or not, we'll just be going round in circles on this matter. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532699/#p532699 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! +1nidza07 wrote:To be honest I have no clue why some people keep bringing up the CP argument when clearly forum users were the ones asking for an exception when it comes to free audio games. I don't get what is the goal or the point of that. What do you want, admins to go fully enforcing the rule on all the games? It's not because they don't want to do it.As for the original VM in question, such utilities are passed around on thousands of forums with no consequences whatsoever to anyone, so I can't say I see the point. And no, those aren't piracy oriented forums or anything like that. A few notable tech sites including instructions for doing exactly this include HowToGeek, Lifehacker, Insanely Mac forum and Gizmodo. However, we are audiogames.net, the largest forum on the Internet that is constantly being monitored by Apple and thus we must strictly conform to their licence agreement. I won't post any links on here, but a simple Google search run Mac in a virtual machine on Windows shows my point exactly. This won't be the case if you Google crack for X software. You won't be seeing that on any forums with a good reputation. One more thing, no more discussing of IOS betas on here guys, because from now on we strictly conform to Apple's licence agreement which was already violated back when the topic about IOS 13 beta was created.One last thing that is now forbidden to discuss on here according to Apple, our new forum administrator is jailbreaking. Yep, that's right, the recent topic created here talking about jailbreaking is from this point on illegal.FYI Jade, on the front of the articles room there's an interesting topic. It's called Working: how to install an IPA file to your iOS device 2020. If we open it and look for a link, and open that link, the title of the page will immediately say, "Cracked iOS & Mac App Store Apps Free Download | AppCake - ". I would think this is much more important than a virtual machine, but what do I know. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532659/#p532659 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! @131, your reading skills are exceptional. Congrats and keep up the good work! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532623/#p532623 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : black_mana via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! well i don't think these big sound library compani that released them do cair about them being used like that, because as far as i know it does not effect, they've already earned money from there work and still do, but yeah. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532556/#p532556 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : bryant via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! ok, I have held myself back from posting on this topic, because frankly I do not have much to say that has already been said, and bringing the arguments up again serves no purpose. But i'm only going to say this. First of all, believe it or not, I am in full agreement that sounds of crazy party need to be changed. It is justified that these games should be taken down. For those of you who are making the argument that these companies who the sounds were "borrowed" from won't care, they don't know that these sounds are being used in the first place, so that, to me, is not an argument which holds much ground. We don't know that they would or wouldn't care, because they don't know about these sounds being used for other projects. Does this excuse make it any more right? No. How would you feel if someone took your hard work and used it for something else without so much as giving you credit? In this case, I am talking about sound design. There was a time when I was on the other side of this issue. I thought, "Is this really a big deal?" But the more I think about it, and the more of Jade's posts I have read, the more I am in agreement that something needs to be done. For those of you who think that changing sounds in a game will take forever, and complain that you won't get to play your favorite game for perhaps months, I ask you this. Are games a want, or are games a need? TO be clear, I love crazy party. I think it's a great game, and the developer has done one fine job with it. But I cannot endorse the use of other sounds which developers have no right to. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532532/#p532532 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : bryant via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! ok, I have held myself back from posting on this topic, because frankly I do not have much to say that has already been said, and bringing the arguments up again serves no purpose. But i'm only going to say this. First of all, believe it or not, I am in full agreement that sounds of crazy party need to be changed. It os justified that these games should be taken down. For those of you who are making the argument that these companies who the sounds were "borrowed" from won't care, they don't know that these sounds are being used in the first place, so that, to me, is not an argument which holds much ground. We don't know that they would or wouldn't care, because they don't know about these sounds being used for other projects. Does this excuse make it any more right? No. How would you feel if someone took your hard work and used it for something else without so much as giving you credit? In this case, I am talking about sound design. There was a time when I was on the other side of this issue. I thought, "Is this really a big deal?" But the more I think about it, and the more of Jade's posts I have read, the more I am in agreement that something needs to be done. For those of you who think that changing sounds in a game will take forever, and complain that you won't get to play your favorite game for perhaps months, I ask you this. Are games a want, or are games a need? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532532/#p532532 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Hi.Sooo, did actually one of the admins go forward and ask a lawyer about this matter? Otherwise I could do what Jayde said in another topic and just go write to Nintendo myself and see how they would react to this hole matter.Greetings Moritz. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532527/#p532527 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! No. I'm saying it uses hundreds of pirated assets. I have no way of knowing how many sound effects are pirated. I can tell you that all of the battle themes in battle mode are pirated, however, as I have experienced some of them myself and have heard others in playthroughs. Note for note. These are not available in sound libraries, to my knowledge, as they're the property of Nintendo or Gamefreak or whoever precisely holds that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532474/#p532474 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ignatriay via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! I'm just playing the devil's advocate for a bit... As far as sound design, how do you know that all of the Pokémon sounds used in crazy party are... Exclusive, per say? For all we know, they could have been bought from a audio library... A blind legend is a example of this, just to give you a hint, the sword sounds... from a sound library. Manamon, another exacple. Sounds are coming from a sound library, fabee not all of the sounds, however its fair to say quite a few do. So I ask again, how do you know for sure that the sounds are original, exclusive for Pokémon, and not that they come from a sound library? Have any of you considered this? Are there games out there that have exclusive, go-out-there-and-record-your-own-sounds-and-then-edit-them, approach? Heck yes. However in most cases, far as i've seen, sounds come from sound libraries.Speaking of cp, the sound you hear when junking and drawing cards? Same sounds heard in quentencie's playroom. Does this mean, that the playroom is also using pirated assets, or that said sounds where actually from a sound library? Just some food for thought. You say all the sounds are pirated? Assuming this is true, in that case, quentencies playroom would be using pirated assets given the card sounds are the same as those in cp. That, or said sounds are actually sounds found in sound libraries. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532471/#p532471 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ignatriay via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! I'm just playing the devil's advocate for a bit... As far as sound design, how do you know that all of the Pokémon sounds used in crazy party are... Exclusive, per say? For all we know, they could have been bought from a audio library... A blind legend is a example of this, just to give you a hint, the sword sounds... from a sound library. Manamon, another exacple. Sounds are coming from a sound library, fabee not all of the sounds, however its fair to say quite a few do. So I ask again, how do you know for sure that the sounds are original, exclusive for Pokémon, and not that they come from a sound library? Have any of you considered this? Are there games out there that have exclusive, go-out-there-and-record-your-own-sounds-and-then-edit-them, approach? Heck yes. However in most cases, far as i've seen, sounds come from sound libraries. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532471/#p532471 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ignatriay via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! I'm just playing the devil's advocate for a bit... As far as sound design, how do you know that all of the Pokémon sounds used in crazy party are... Exclusive, per say? For all we know, they could have been bought from a audio library... A blind legend is a example of this, just to give you a hint, the sword sounds... from a sound library. Manamon, another exacple. Sounds are coming from a sound library. So I ask again, how do you know for sure that the sounds are original, exclusive for Pokémon, and not that they come from a sound library? Have any of you considered this? Are there games out there that have exclusive, go-out-there-and-record-your-own-sounds-and-then-edit-them, approach? Heck yes. However in most cases, far as i've seen, sounds come from sound libraries. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532471/#p532471 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ignatriay via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! I'm just playing the devil's advocate for a bit... As far as sound design, how do you know that all of the Pokémon sounds used in crazy party are... Exclusive, per say? For all we know, they could have been bought from a audio library... A blind legend is a example of this, just to give you a hint, the sword sounds... from a sound library. Manamon, another exacple. Sounds are coming from a sound library. So I ask again, how do you know for sure that the sounds are original, exclusive for Pokémon, and not that they come from a sound library? Have any of you considered this? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532471/#p532471 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Jaseoffire via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Actually, regarding Microgames, I have heard that name in one other game. Warioware. I recall Warioware incorperated being the game I played, but I think the concept is what the warioware series is built on. I don't know if the concept is the same in Crazy Party, though. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532470/#p532470 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! So, I've been monitoring this entire topic, and am not going to get too heavily involved in this since I have better things to do than to waste my time arguing copyright law back in fourth. Post 136 definitely covered most of my issues with 135; however, one issue stuck out to me in particular -- the concept/impression that I received from 135 that implied that code theft is bad because the authors put in dedicated work to make something a reality and therefore its bad; whether money is involved or not is irrelevant. The problem, of course, is that sound designers put in a lot of effort into making good, high-quality sounds, and tend to spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on sound design libraries, VSTs, etc. Therefore, both are equally bad and should be treated the exact same way, irrespective of what product it happens in, or what product it happens to. And though 135 partially covered that, I just thought I might point that out. I'm going to hang back and monitor this topic now; Jayde has pretty much said things far better than I could have. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532468/#p532468 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Surgery time.I'm going to take your post apart, so this is gonna be a text wall."If it was just the sound design, we could talk, but Japanese games are better at practicly everything, and if you don't want to accept that it's your choice, but anyone who seriously plays audiogames will say this as a fact. Again, voice acting you say? One free non Japanese game that does voice acting well? I could think only of the blind swordsman, but that again doesn't come anywhere near the size of Shadow rine. Even Manamon rather does the story in textual form to avoid even more costs of hiring actors to do the job. I'm not even sure what your point is, since yes, Japanese games do have a different standard. Look at Planet saga, it's just a concept demo and yet we have nothing like it. We all know that the BK series is pretty much the best sidescroller we have. This includes free and paid, and now if we limit it to just free games, we better not even talk about it. Whether our developers can or can't do better is not something I can answer, but I can answer that they currently don't."My point is that if the Japanese are doing it, so can we. And arguably, so -should we. Rather than putting it into an "us and them" scenario, we should recognize that these are just really good game developers. All game devs, if given sufficient reason and time and resources, and talent of course, can do what they're doing. There is not some secret quality which makes Japanese people better at making audio games, or any other games for that matter."Again, my question is simple, point to non Japanese games that are free, have some good replay value or come close to the size of CP and meet your legal sounds requirements. Even Super Liam, Judgment day, all of these have been paid at their time. Surely if you can't find one non Japanese game, they do have a different standard we aren't even close to yet? Now whether we as a community are used to accepting average games, hell yes. Is CP an average game? Most certainly no. It's in the category of top free games for sure."You're missing the point. First, I don't have to point at a non-Japanese game that's doing a good job, because audio games are audio games. Stop with the us-and-them crap. It's a smokescreen, and it's not working on me. Second, I'm well aware of how popular and successful CP is, and I argue that it's successful in spite of its pirated assets, not because of them."You are playing only one mode of CP actively, since as you said yourself you don't like minigames that much, and I do respect that, but you have to understand that CP is 2 and a half games in one. On one side you have the battle mode you know, on the other a list of over 200 minigames you can play, and on the third side a list of about 50 micro games."Again, I'm well aware of what this game encompasses. I make a point to try and know what I'm talking about before running my mouth.If you think all these ideas are just stolen from others, you are really wrong. Taking the battle mode for example, the only thing that is stolen here are the Pokemon attack names. The concept is different from anything else."Uh, no. No it's not. All types are borrowed from pokemon. The concept of gyms is borrowed from pokemon. I'm pretty sure every music track is pirated from pokemon. Sorry, but don't give me that. This is pokemon with some new math and a fresh coat of paint. No, it is not 100% pokemon, but it is so heavily inspired by it that it's really difficult to call this original. It's also unbalanced as hell, BTW, but that's beside the point."Yes, it can remind us of Pokemon or other card battling games, but it is most certainly not the same and cards as well as the whole battle system just works on it's own. Many ideas, especially recently have been contributed by the community and it is far from copy pasting ideas."See above. You should really stop trying to justify this product as original now. If Pragma wanted to differentiate himself from pokemon, then he really shot himself in the foot by pirating pokemon fight music, using all the pokemon types, and then essentially being in favour of leaving pirated assets in his game at least in part because he's trying to invoke pokemon nostalgia. You absolutely cannot have this both ways, dude. Either it's original - in which case it should have its own sounds and music to make it its own thing - or the people playing it are out for a pokemon nostalgia fix and they really really really need pokemon music to do that with. Busted."Same goes for minigames. The concept borrows quite a lot from Mario party, but again, you have a lot of unique games which either Pragma or the community came up with. Micro games as far as I know is something unique to Crazy party and isn't an idea from anywhere, but perhaps I am wrong."Again, I'm aware it's not a 100% ripoff, but
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Jaseoffire via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Right. There is one thing that the Japanese devs might have more of, and that's resources. I would add Time, but that one I am far less certain on. Resources are one of those pools, though that can't just be easily obtained. If they could, we'd all be wealthy. That being said, resources aren't everything here. Using a good work ethic, something anyone can get more or less, learn the requesite skills to produce sounds. Utilize free sound sources that have licenses to legally allow you to use those sounds. Actually, if you are doing a free game, that expands your resource pool to Non-comercial based license like CC-by-NC. There are ways to do things so long as you pay attention and are creative. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532445/#p532445 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-22
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AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : nidza07 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! If it was just the sound design, we could talk, but Japanese games are better at practicly everything, and if you don't want to accept that it's your choice, but anyone who seriously plays audiogames will say this as a fact. Again, voice acting you say? One free non Japanese game that does voice acting well? I could think only of the blind swordsman, but that again doesn't come anywhere near the size of Shadow rine. Even Manamon rather does the story in textual form to avoid even more costs of hiring actors to do the job. I'm not even sure what your point is, since yes, Japanese games do have a different standard. Look at Planet saga, it's just a concept demo and yet we have nothing like it. We all know that the BK series is pretty much the best sidescroller we have. This includes free and paid, and now if we limit it to just free games, we better not even talk about it. Whether our developers can or can't do better is not something I can answer, but I can answer that they currently don't. Again, my question is simple, point to non Japanese games that are free, have some good replay value or come close to the size of CP and meet your legal sounds requirements. Even Super Liam, Judgment day, all of these have been paid at their time. Surely if you can't find one non Japanese game, they do have a different standard we aren't even close to yet? Now whether we as a community are used to accepting average games, hell yes. Is CP an average game? Most certainly no. It's in the category of top free games for sure. You are playing only one mode of CP actively, since as you said yourself you don't like minigames that much, and I do respect that, but you have to understand that CP is 2 and a half games in one. On one side you have the battle mode you know, on the other a list of over 200 minigames you can play, and on the third side a list of about 50 micro games. If you think all these ideas are just stolen from others, you are really wrong. Taking the battle mode for example, the only thing that is stolen here are the Pokemon attack names. The concept is different from anything else. Yes, it can remind us of Pokemon or other card battling games, but it is most certainly not the same and cards as well as the whole battle system just works on it's own. Many ideas, especially recently have been contributed by the community and it is far from copy pasting ideas. Same goes for minigames. The concept borrows quite a lot from Mario party, but again, you have a lot of unique games which either Pragma or the community came up with. Micro games as far as I know is something unique to Crazy party and isn't an idea from anywhere, but perhaps I am wrong. In one of your previous posts it sounded like your impression is that Pragma only coded the game, just copying ideas the same way it worked for the sounds, nevermind that the sounds weren't just copied into the game either. Not entirely sure what your huge issue with CP all of a sudden is other than the sounds, but there are some facts to clear this up. It only conveniently happens to work that the only games that come anywhere close to this and are free come from Japan. I never meant to make any racist comment, it would be silly since I'm not even from Japan, but as I said this was always the case that the best audiogames come from there. I would personally say that the only reason Pragma can keep CP free is due to not having any sound costs associated with the game. Is this perfect and should this always be the case? Most certainly no. However, are we stealing anything from the artists who created all this work? That's yet again a no. We aren't making any money, nor is Pragma, and they are or were paid regardless of what happens with CP. The point would be much different if the game was paid. You would have every right to argue that we are indirectly stealing money from the companies who created the sounds. You have also previously mentioned and compared how comes that our community jumps when we see code stealing, but this type of sound stealing is perfectly ok. This really should not need explaining again, but the code is being stolen from people who devote their time, their limited free time to making an audiogame. They aren't being paid at all, usually their income from the game is 0 dollars. All they have is their code, and stealing their work in this case, being that we are primarily a site supporting audiogame developers should really be treated the same as sharing audiogame cracks. Stealing sounds isn't okay either, I can only accept it in the case of CP because of the reasons already outlined above. It is a huge company that doesn't lose anything if one tiny audiogame for 200 players suddenly starts using their assets. I would argue that if Jayde was to create a game, and the game would be paid 10 dollars, suddenly it gets cracked, your loss would be a lot larger, perhaps making you never want
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Actually, yes, I can.An audiogame is an audiogame regardless of where it comes from.If you don't know why the Japanese audiogames we've had access to have largely better sound design, then perhaps it's just because those devs pride themselves on doing a good job, sourcing their material and making a particular impression? Drawing a line in the sand between Japanese audiogame developers and everyone else is not racism, but it's a form of profiling, and it's silly. It suggests that there is something intrinsic to Japanese developers that others do not have, and cannot have, and that's just an easy way to wave this troubling aspect of the argument away.The truth is simple: perhaps the work ethic is stronger and the desire to do things right is more culturally or socially ingrained. I'm not a hundred percent sure about that. But this can be found in other areas as well, and is not the sole purview of the Japanese audiogames community. If your argument boils down to, "Well it's them, of course they're different/better, we can't possibly", then you're just being lazy.So now that I've taken all the props away, let's face the facts.When a Japanese developer like Galaxy Laboratory wanted to channel the 90s action JRPG style, they fucking well did it. Hundreds of sounds, dozens of music tracks; hell, they even got voice acting in there. I am not a native Japanese speaker so I don't know how authentic it actually was, since I know nothing of the nuance of the language, but considering how generally non-buggy this game was, and how deep it went, and how much replay value it had...well that's pretty amazing.And now, because you don't have the "well of course, they're different" argument to fall back on, what is your reason that people like Pragma or others who aren't Japanese can't emulate that work ethic? Really sit back and think about this.Me, I think it's laziness or lack of motivation. The community accepts fairly low standards and has proven that it'll take copyrighted assets and weak plot/shaky mechanics as long as it's shiny and new. So perhaps our real problem here is systemic. We've gotten used to accepting less, and so when something mediocre comes out and a bunch of folks rave on about how good it is, devs over here get preconditioned to put in a certain level of effort, which probably doesn't align with the standards of Japanese audiogames. But that does not mean that non-Japanese developers are -unable to meet those standards. They just. Plain. Don't. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532411/#p532411 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : nidza07 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! So can anyone else, but noone else did it, not that I know of at least. As I said, one non Japanese game the size of CP, and free, and I will accept that this is perfectly possible. Japanese games do have insane replay value, I never questioned that. But sounds are far from the only thing Japanese games are way more advanced compared to anything free and even most paid non Japanese games. Our free games can't even be compared to something free coming from Japan. When a newly released Japanese game comes along, you know that it is something polished and ready to play. This by the way includes comparing them to Crazy party. I have not yet seen a Japanese release full of bugs or with a bug that makes it unplayable, and even when this does happen like a few times in BK, those things are fixed in a matter of a few days. What makes such a huge difference in development, and in general in their design philosophy I don't know, but that is an entirely different topic. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532384/#p532384 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : black_mana via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! i gotta agree with post 131 132, you can't really comparing Japanese game with the ones being released, sounds like you wanted to support your argument by that, but it doesn't work like that, i think post 132 gave an explination for that URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532406/#p532406 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : nidza07 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! So can anyone else, but noone else did it, not that I know of at least. As I said, one non Japanese game the size of CP, and free, and I will accept that this is perfectly possible. Japanese games do have insane replay value, I never questioned that. But sounds are far from the only thing Japanese games are way more advanced compared to anything free and even most paid non Japanese games. Our free games can't even be compared to something free coming from Japan. When a newly released Japanese game comes along, you know that it is something polished and ready to play. This by the way includes Crazy party. I have not yet seen a Japanese release full of bugs or with a bug that makes it unplayable, and even when this does happen like a few times in BK, those things are fixed in a matter of a few days. What makes such a huge difference in development, and in general in their design philosophy I don't know, but that is an entirely different topic. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532384/#p532384 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Jaidon Of the Caribbean via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! I'm sorry to say this, but Japanese work ethics is is very different to western ones. That's not an excuse, but it may be a reason as to how they do it and we dont. Nuno, why bring your pro-China anti-Japanese sentiments in here as well`?Has the staff team considered talking to a lawyer, instead of this argument which at this point is one based on guessing, emotion, uncertainty and mistrust? I think it's the best option at this point URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532373/#p532373 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! The single reason that I cite Japanese audio games is to prove that it can be done. People talk about how monumentally difficult it apparently is to avoid piracy or whatever, yet Shadow Rine and the BK series, just to name two, seem to do it pretty well. And I dunno about you, but both of those games have some pretty insane replay value. This proves that some people, at least, have had the time, the desire, and/or the resources to create games to evoke a certain feel without simply pirating hundreds of sounds and piggybacking off the fame of an already well-known franchise. So if they can do it, so can virtually anyone else. Failure to do so is either laziness, a desire to steal, lack of know-how, lack of resources or some combination thereof. There's really no getting around it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532351/#p532351 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : black_mana via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! that sounds copyrights topic is geting old, and honestly there is no point in arguing about it, it is ridiculous URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532329/#p532329 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : nidza07 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Being that free Japanese games can't even be compared when it comes to replay value to their international free counterparts, I would argue the same is regarding sounds. By that logic, all our games are worthless compared to the japanese market. The only things that can even compete are paid, that includes things such as Manamon, AHC and some others. So if Japanese games can do it so can everyone argument unfortunately does not work. That is one very specific case that you keep mentioning, probably because you yet can't find a non Japanese game that competes to crazy party and is also free, yet is completely legal with no copyrighted assets. I honestly don't even know why does this continue being an argument. Either a decision should be made or nothing should happen and this should stop. We can argue all day about it which has been happening for 3 days and nobody's opinions will change. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532283/#p532283 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Hi.At 126 lol well you know, shots against games only work if the games you're defending don't prove guilty of the same thing, which well, they do.Greetings Moritz. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532211/#p532211 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Lol, your favorite japanese games also use sounds from various kinds of places, including Swamp. Pole axe, anyone? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532181/#p532181 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Fair use applies to stuff like listening and personal enjoyment. By trying to make a gaming experience and making it cooperative and competitive, Pragma pretty well blew any chance of a lawyer being able to permit CP on fair-use grounds to pieces. It's clearly not just for Pragma's personal enjoyment or for the sake of wanting to occasionally listen to music tracks. There's social benefits in creating a game, and copyright law feasts on this sort of thing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532155/#p532155 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Fair use is what I think of with things like this, but you know that lawyers are going to do everything in their power to argue against that. It's what their payed to do. Plus, I'm really not sure fair use would even apply to something like Crazy Party since it's a blatant attempt to copy something. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532153/#p532153 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Jaseoffire via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! I am very curious what happens if the copyright violator is dead. Namely, of course, Jim Kitchen's games. I suppose they could come back on the forum for linking to it, so I understand taking that step, but still. Yeah. Copyright law is very unfair and draconian the best you could hope for is a fair use argument, but even that has grey area. At the end of the day, you might be able to argue that Crazy Party falls under that scope, and the scales weigh into its favor due to being free and transformative to a degree. Ah well. What can you do? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532145/#p532145 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Right. Well, regardless of our individual feelings about this, we need to do what's right according to copyright law if we want to avoid the forum getting into any legal trouble with 100% certainty. We can sit, stand, lie, cartwheel, levitate, jog, or whatever here depending on our preferences when accessing the forum and debate all we want, but we're getting nowhere fast. This is what I suggest, and it's likely going to anger quite a few people. Some of these things have already been suggested at one time or another.1. Remove Crazy Party from the database until we can be sure it has no pirated sounds, and forbid anyone to link to it as per rule 3. No beating around the bush, no debates, just remove it and be done. End of discussion. People can still play it, and that should be good enough.2. Refuse to add games to the database if they're found to have pirated sounds from well-known games, movies, TV shows, etc. We obviously can't do anything if they're stock sounds anyone can buy or download for free, but we can forbid games with obviously pirated sounds.3. Refuse to add games to the database if they're based on an existing copyrighted work without a license. This means no Star Wars, Star Trek, Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, etc.4. Remove any and all existing games from the database that violate the last two on a case by case basis. This means no one would have to comb through the database unless they really want to, but some effort should be made. Yes, this also means Jim kitchen's games, GMA's Star Trek game, Clash of Lightsabers, etc. This is all or nothing here.5. Do this as soon as possible so we can get back to discussing audiogames instead of going round and round in circular debates about copyright that make me want to slam my head into a wall. I mean... unless people like discussing that sort of thing. But for the love of all thins both holy and unholy, we need to take an official stance as a community and stay there.Are some of these suggestions a bit draconian? Well, sure, but so is copyright law in a lot of instances. That's just the way it is right now. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532141/#p532141 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Don't worry. I saw your questions for what they were and I didn't feel attacked in the slightest. Thanks for the help.I was extremely disappointed to see Pragma's answer, because instead of wanting his game to be...well, his game, he just wants to make a sound clone and profit socially from it. As I said in a previous post, extremely slimy. But if this were all it was, and it was somehow legal, I'd have made that point and then been done. After all, I'm not here to make people quit playing if they enjoy it and don't have a problem with what Pragma's doing. I'm acting in defense of the forum, however, so that's why I vocally stand where I do. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532137/#p532137 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-21
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AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! @Jayde, well thought and admirably delivered answer in 115. for the record I just want to point out I wasn't trying to instigate but more leaning toward the whole trying to do what I used to do from a moderation standpoint back when I was on the panel. I thought it would give the kids on the playground a chance to seriously see your stance for what it was and not what they think it is. On the whole I think you hit home when you said it's a matter of social reputation now as opposed to actually trying to be artistically creative, particularly since it has been shown that a fair amount of the community would willingly step up to volunteer to the project, no small feat and no fun one either given the scope of the undertaking. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532134/#p532134 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : an idiot via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! @118 you leave out some pretty good free sound sights, free sound and sound bible are not good examples of free sound sights. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532121/#p532121 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Zarvox via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! I had very poor vision. But I got every ounce of gaming from those non cooperative eyes as I could lol URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532120/#p532120 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ignatriay via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! @104, agree completely. There are bunch of free sights that offer royalty free sounds. Freesound.org, soundbible.com, among others, and those are just the free ones, the itunes store has a ridiculous number of sound albums, most; not all; but most; are $10. So. Are there options? Yes, if one is willing to look. Granted the sounds in freesound.org and soundbible.com might not be of say, hd quality as say, sound dogs, Hollywood soun effects, etc, but they can be worked with. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532113/#p532113 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! I just want to chime in here real quick. I am totally blind, have been all my life, and I know it's not the same. It's similar. The genre is the same. That's cool. But this is why I've never bought the "sounds are what make the game" argument. They help, but the idea that they are fundamental is just not universal enough to be used as a talking point.If I want pokemon nostalgia from my high school days, I don't play CP to hear pokemon songs. I go watch Let's Plays or other challenges, or speedruns. If I want to channel Mario, Zelda, Sonic, any of that stuff, I go to any number of places and do it that way. Crazy Party, even with my experience with watching folks play Mario Party, does not generate the nostalgia it apparently does for others.Zarvox, thanks for the info. As someone who was formerly sighted, your perspective is definitely interesting and valuable. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532110/#p532110 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Zarvox via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! I'm going to say it. It's going to piss people off, but the truth is the truth. Crazy party is, and will never be like mario, sonic, pokemon, or zelda. Few reasons why. First, these games have been around for 30 years. Crazy party has been around for about for 4 years. Second, it's coded in freaking bgt. Come on. Third, audio games are no where near main stream level. Fourth, Nintendo has hundreds or thousands of workers, full time as well. Crazy party is only a few people and not full time. Those are the obvious ones. The game is good for what it is. I like it. But don't even try to compare it to main stream games. You can't compare it to any of the games that the sounds are picked from, because it is nowhere close to them, no matter how hard you try to manipulate the audio game. So the whole idea of, the sounds makes it like the original game, is crap. I will tell you now, I loved those types of games when I was a kid. The years hen I had sight, I freaking obsessed on playing mario and zelda titles. Crazy party does not give me any memories of that. None. If you have always been completely blind, obviously you aren't getting the same feelings as I am because I could see what the game was like, I could see what the difference was. You all who have always been blind have had to imagine it, and it looks and sounds the same, so you think, it must be the same! But it's not even close. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532105/#p532105 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Okay, Nocturnis, I'll bite.Using the graphic audio example, I actually don't have a ton of experience, so I'll take your word for the fact that they reuse sounds over and over. My guess is that they have very likely purchased the sound libraries in which these sounds exist, such that by the terms of their license, they're free to use them as you describe. If there is evidence that this is not, in fact, the case, then I'd agree that's somewhat problematic.Alter Aeon has dozens or even hundreds of sighted players who either use the D-client, or their own client of choice. My first four years on AA I spent not using MushZ because I didn't know it existed and, early on, it didn't exist in the form it does now. There are undoubtedly players who would not play without a sound pack, but the mud is thriving anyway. I mean hell, if you want something comparable, Aardwolf's writing is worse, its grind is less interesting, it's repetitive, and its quests are either banal or baffling, take your pick. Yet that game has over a hundred people logged in regularly. No sound pack. Clearly MUDs may benefit from sound packs but they don't require them.Now, as for my personal feelings. Here's how I break it down.I have no particular loyalty to the corporations themselves who make billions of dollars in profit. As entities, I feel they are often more harmful than good. Anti-capitalist bias is showing, but I don't care; you did ask. People shouldn't exploit workers and value money over well-being.However, I also realize that within these corporations are people. In addition, sound assets, and music especially for me, represent artistry. As such, there are artists within Nintendo or other faceless corporations who have done some pretty amazing work. Many of them have become famous and are paid well for their services. Others are overlooked. Most nevertheless had to work extremely hard, and not always in good conditions, to bring us the sounds and music we enjoy.Taking my admin-ness out of the situation, my view is quite simple. I played CP for awhile and just didn't think much about it. Then I started realizing just how many sounds and music bits were pirated, and it started to chew on me. It was then that I began to feel that Pragma was basically borrowing someone else's fame, riding their coat-tails, as it were, to bolster his own product. To be clear, he put in a lot of work with the coding and organization and all that, but most of the ideas aren't really his, most of the musical assets aren't his, and to my knowledge, most of the sound effects aren't either. Once I see a thing, I can't un-see it, so I began to have a much harder time supporting this game and its development, because frankly, if all you're really going to do is faithfully recreate someone else's game, borrow their assets without giving them proper compensation, and ultimately profit socially (not financially, that would be an entirely different thing), I find that unspeakably slimy. It is the sort of thing which makes me extremely wary of posting a music track I wrote for the scrutiny of the community, or of sharing my writing. People who feel it is okay to support this behaviour have proven that what matters, at least in that instance, is their nostalgia, or their happiness, and not ownership rights or moral integrity of artistry."But wait!", I hear some of you wanting to cry. "You're only on a crusade against Crazy Party because you don't personally agree with it!"It's easy to say that, but it's not true. I have had well over a year and a half to consider my stance, and whether or not my vocal attacks on its viability for this communitr are motivated primarily by either my desire to see the community safe, or because of personal bias. I have also spent the last two and a half years or so in a program of study which teaches us a lot of tricks concerning ways to distance yourself from a situation such that your bias - because we all have it - is minimized. I'm sure that mine shows from time to time, as well; I'm not a robot. However, I'm confident that my reason for being as loud as I've been is for the community's benefit. Even if Nintendo were to show up here and tell us that CP was never going to cause anyone any harm, I probably still wouldn't play much anymore. However, I would obviously stop trying to get it removed from the community, and if anyone gave us grief about it, I'd point out that we got official sanction to let it slide, and that it does not represent a willingness to tolerate copyrighted assets in the audiogames community and should thus not be represented as such.Does that answer your questions? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532090/#p532090 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! @Jayde, lets play devils advocate for a bit though, shall we? I mean, in the sake of unbiased neutrality blah blah blah? I think you and I can agree CP is just a huge sound clone now... You've said it.but, have you ever listened to graphic audio? Have you ever noticed how a ton of what you hear sounds similar to things you've heard before? That's because whether you're listening to GA books or stuff made by focus on the family or other reputable places that redramatize things, all of them borrow from the same stupid stock sound libraries, over and over and over again. Yes, I'm with you here, CP is a huge sound clone; lets just call it a replicated wall of soundbits. I guess the question I wish I could answer is, who should we place the blame on in this matter?You brought up the point in 111 that AA would still survive if the mush-z soundpack were pulled; do you really believe that? Do you think that the writing that has gone into AA would sustain those who have learned to live by all the sounds the text currently triggers and doggedly persist in playing just because its AA and it has enough original descriptions of things?But on the flip side of the coin? Dropping the copyright aspect out of the discussion for the time being, let me get just a little more personal with you. Supposing this were perfectly legal; supposing you had no reason to consider this matter as an admin for ag net and you didn't have to think about whether or not all these sounds could get you into any kind of trouble because you're using them to play a game that I imagine did at the very least take a fair amount of time to code, and which others have played through to obtain its many unlockables and whatnot, would you still consider the matter of it being a replicated wall of soundbits an issue, or would you blissfully play?Are you seeing what I'm getting at here? Isn't it interesting to you, as it is to me, that we'll willingly shell out money to listen to a GA book or other such production regardless of how many familiar sounds it has in it, all from reputable stock sound libraries, and forgive them for replicating and re-replicating and hashing and rehassing it over and over again, but when it comes to a game that doesn't intend to make a million we're sitting around arguing on how much of an impact it makes on a billion dollar industry and whether or not we should rip it out of the hands of those who have it and have access to it and want to continue receiving updates for it, by discouraging its availability on a site that is dedicated to promoting accessible and more importantly, audio games? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532079/#p532079 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! If you can give me an example of where someone was warned for calling an argument bullshit, please let me know.I try to be very, very careful to tear someone's argument apart, and I try very hard not to attack them personally.DanGero is not a bad person because he made a bad argument.That said, if you can provide evidence of what you're saying that's comparable enough, then not only will I apologize, I will update the punishment thread to give myself a warning. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532070/#p532070 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : supremekiller via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Hello everybody!so, two things here.I understand about the piracy, game sunds ETC.fHow evre, it was not necissery to take down richa's IPA guide, it is totaly legal to jailbreak, by law.Secondly dude, you called Dan's arguement bullshit, and of course that's your opinion. How evre, people apart form yourself who have said something like this have been warned for personal attacks. So, I think you lost it a bit with that poast, and maybe apoligizing to him woudln't hurt too much.Anyways that's it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532053/#p532053 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : supremekiller via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Hello everybody!Ok, so I'm against moast of the piracy, games, sounds, ETC.How evre, I storngly disagree with the mac OS vm being taken down. dIt is not illegal under law to use it on something that isn't a mac, it is against apple's terms, but the law allows jailbreaking.As for Juan's poasts, sorry but I disagree with you.I think it's fair enough to put rules in place for stuff that's against the law, because the takedown of this site would be terrible.That's all I have to say. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532053/#p532053 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! If you are totally blind, you are never going to get to actually play Mario Party successfully. No matter how hard you try, that's just the way it is. There are dozens of other games this is true for as well.Pokémon is a different story, admittedly, since while accessibility is up and down, and you'll never get the complete picture, you can still play most main series pokemon games as a blind person.Juan, what it sounds like you're saying is that because Pragma has given people a chance to play an approximate version of one or both of these games, his sounds should be left alone. By this logic, someone in the community should be able to pirate a bunch of Final Fantasy assets and make a Final Fantasy clone. Or Legend of Zelda. Or Mortal Kombat. Or any of half a hundred other franchises. Except, that's not a good idea precisely because it's using pirated assets.If the Japanese community can produce free audio games with lush soundscapes, and can evoke a certain feel while doing it, then I daresay so can we. Take Shadow Rine, for instance. It pretty much has a basic SNES-style action RPG vibe, and even though it's not stealing hundreds of sounds, it does a great job.I'm sorry, but the argument that Pragma's game needs pirated assets in order to be a good game is just weak, and it doesn't work. Remember, I've played both this game and experienced some of the original source material here. Does borrowing those assets help immediately evoke a certain vibe? Well sure it does. I won't deny that. But is that necessary for playing the game? Not at all.Here's where I say something you folks really won't like though.The reason I say that this whole thing is a slap in Pragma's face is very simple. Basically, what Pragma wants to do is make a game that's very very similar in almost every way to Mario Party or Pokémon, and one of the shortcuts he used to achieve mass appeal is by using pirated assets. Basically, most games have to fly on their own laurels to some extent. They need to succeed or fail on their own merits. But what Pragma did, in essence, was to use a ton of someone else's work and say "Hey, see, my game is just like theirs!". You folks talk about how hard it would be to replace those hundreds of sounds; yeah, uh, how hard do you think it was to -create those hundreds of assets in the first place? Basically, anybody who's spouting the "these pirated assets are necessary" party line is arguing that it's okay to shortcut your way to success by stealing somebody else's work. Last I checked, we're...really kind of against that in the audio gaming community.And perhaps the reason at a glance that something like AA's sound pack doesn't get quite the same attention, BTW? Yes, it's full of copyrighted assets, no argument there. But there is a game without that sound pack. You can play AA without the sound pack and the game itself is essentially unchanged. AA doesn't live or die by its pirated assets. But by the argument that continues to crop up, apparently CP does. While you may think this is a strength, it's actually a weakness, and really shows off the lack of originality and willingness to steal, so long as it's in the apparently good cause of evoking nostalgia.Now let's take this one step further.What if my reason for stealing assets is because I want to make a game but don't have money? Is that okay?What if it's because I really really really freaking love these certain pieces of music and I want you to experience the game a certain way, but I know I'm just not going to be Nobuo Uematsu's equal? Is that okay?What if I just felt like it? Is that okay too? Really give this some thought, folks.Really, what some of you have arbitrarily decided is that nostalgia is a good enough reason to tolerate piracy. Why is that? Really sit down and chew on it. If we're supposed to be improving as a community, why are some of us saying that nostalgia, or trying to mimic the sound of another game, actually makes a good audio game? By this argument, really most of our attention should be on ripping sounds from popular projects, slapping on a fresh coat of paint and calling them by slightly different names. Clearly, this is the key to popularity and success. Never mind that whatever you might think of a faceless corporation, there were actually individuals in those projects who worked like dogs to create some of the things you know and love. Never mind that the gaming industry in general is chock-full of stories of companies treating their employees badly, of harsh deadlines, of unrealistic expectations, and of employees who are overworked, undercompensated and prone to mental health problems because of unreasonable working conditions. Never mind that we're absolute death on clones because they steal code. Why is stealing code so bad but stealing sounds is not? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532044/#p532044 -- Audiogames-re
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! If you are totally blind, you are never going to get to actually play Mario Party successfully. No matter how hard you try, that's just the way it is. There are dozens of other games this is true for as well.Pokémon is a different story, admittedly, since while accessibility is up and down, and you'll never get the complete picture, you can still play most main series pokemon games as a blind person.Juan, what it sounds like you're saying is that because Pragma has given people a chance to play an approximate version of one or both of these games, his sounds should be left alone. By this logic, someone in the community should be able to pirate a bunch of Final Fantasy assets and make a Final Fantasy clone. Or Legend of Zelda. Or Mortal Kombat. Or any of half a hundred other franchises. Except, that's not a good idea precisely because it's using pirated assets.If the Japanese community can produce free audio games with lush soundscapes, and can evoke a certain feel while doing it, then I daresay so can we. Take Shadow Rine, for instance. It pretty much has a basic SNES-style action RPG vibe, and even though it's not stealing hundreds of sounds, it does a great job.I'm sorry, but the argument that Pragma's game needs pirated assets in order to be a good game is just weak, and it doesn't work. Remember, I've played both this game and experienced some of the original source material here. Does borrowing those assets help immediately evoke a certain vibe? Well sure it does. I won't deny that. But is that necessary for playing the game? Not at all.Here's where I say something you folks really won't like though.The reason I say that this whole thing is a slap in Pragma's face is very simple. Basically, what Pragma wants to do is make a game that's very very similar in almost every way to Mario Party or Pokémon, and one of the shortcuts he used to achieve mass appeal is by using pirated assets. Basically, most games have to fly on their own laurels to some extent. They need to succeed or fail on their own merits. But what Pragma did, in essence, was to use a ton of someone else's work and say "Hey, see, my game is just like theirs!". You folks talk about how hard it would be to replace those hundreds of sounds; yeah, uh, how hard do you think it was to -create those hundreds of assets in the first place? Basically, anybody who's spouting the "these pirated assets are necessary" party line is arguing that it's okay to shortcut your way to success by stealing somebody else's work. Last I checked, we're...really kind of against that in the audio gaming community.And perhaps the reason at a glance that something like AA's sound pack doesn't get quite the same attention, BTW? Yes, it's full of copyrighted assets, no argument there. But there is a game without that sound pack. You can play AA without the sound pack and the game itself is essentially unchanged. AA doesn't live or die by its pirated assets. But by the argument that continues to crop up, apparently CP does. While you may think this is a strength, it's actually a weakness, and really shows off the lack of originality and willingness to steal, so long as it's in the apparently good cause of evoking nostalgia. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532044/#p532044 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : matt1211 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! I'll finally post on one of these topics, as I feel that the non-vocal majority deserves an opinion too! Personally, I think that the sounds for crazy party could do with a change. I don't have the skills to help with this kind of project however, and the dev seems kinda uninterested.Given that most people know where to get the game now though, and checking back once a month or so for updates isn't a huge hardship, I'm also completely fine with ag.net removing the game. I disagree personally, and will still keep playing; however since I don't run the site, nor do I have any moderation power whatsoever, I'll keep my disagreement to this one post, just not talk about cp here (as if I talked much anyways,) and get what I can out of this place still. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532026/#p532026 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : juan reina via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! well, I won't start pouncing on dan for what he said, it's dan, and only he knows why he said it. But I am for the game, and I still hold it strongly that the sounds are a staple to the comunity, even to those who don't know about the actual franchise themselves. someone said in page or two a go, that it's not the reason of piracy, or copyright, the reason why you're pushing this so far, and the reason why it stings to alot of us, is we only want to actually get a chance to play games that our familys, not to mention big franchises, left us out on. you see? It's these sounds, rite here! not to mention gameplay and stability, that keeps us as blind gamers, hooked! I am not a rager at all in games, noone can peg me on that. I am for the game, but even if he were to change the sounds to crazy party, he should also change the name, as it won't really be crazy party anymore. The thing that not alot of you understand is, crazy party, was ment to be this way! doesn't matter about expences, don't yall think if he wanid it to be diffrent, he would have done something about it? It's this kind of persistance, that he's trying to do. Yall see, he's not pushing the piracy trane, but something much more. Oh and @jayde, sorry to make asumbtions of you, didn't know you play. But that's why asumptions are there rite? To be corrected if anything. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/532002/#p532002 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : nidza07 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Thanks for the assumption that most people who disagree are trolls. That includes a developer, a contributor, and a translator, as well as probably a lot of people who played and enjoyed the game before this forum even knew a single thing about it. At least we aren't copyright trolls though thank god. With all due respect, comparing a small Sonus GDE project to CP is just funny, nothing else. VG storm has one free game AAC, with no illegal assets, and even that doesn't come close to the size of CP. So try finding something a bit more comparable to Crazy party next time. You probably won't though, until we go the Japanese games route. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531989/#p531989 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : black_mana via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! i gotta agree with post 105 and 106, i can't say much about that, just the fact that it makes no sense what so ever URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531983/#p531983 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! @104, that was... Ah I have no words. If I were Pragma, I wouldn't care if my game would be banned from AG NET. Is this forum a while world? No, it isn't. I tell you. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531883/#p531883 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : targor via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! @104 Wow. Weren't you the one who defended the old sounds the most? You said they are the whole point of the game and without them, the whole hype of the game is gone and that replacing all the sounds is taking away the pokemon and mario party vibes? Now you're disappointed in exactly those people and label people who don't want to play with the new sounds not worth it since they probably are trolls anyway? Changing your opinion is the whole point of a discussion, but this disappointment seems awfully hypocritical. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531877/#p531877 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : targor via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! @104 Wow. Weren't you the one who defended the old sounds the most? You said they are the whole point of the game and without them, the whole hype of the game is gone and that replacing all the sounds is allmost impossible? Now you're disappointed in exactly those people and label people who don't want to play with the new sounds not worth it? Changing your opinion is the whole point of a discussion, but this disappointment seems awfully hypocritical. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531877/#p531877 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Dan_Gero via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! I'm posting this in both topics to further Jayde's point. I know I had a conflicted view on this before, but I think I understand things a bit more clearly now. Do you guys remember This topic about a game I made using the Sonus GDE? If you've got the time, go through all the sounds and listen to them. Each and every sound in that game is created by me. For the robot speaking, I wrote the text in Balabolka using Robosoft 2 and saved it as an ogg file, so technically I did create those sounds myself. My point behind this is that you really don't need to use the sounds that everyone else is using to make a good game. The fact that you don't have sound effects created in a studio and can't afford to obtain them legally should not affect your ability to make a good game. Crazy Party has no excuses, especially considering how the community was ready to pitch in and help make the game more legal. In fact, it seems as if only a loud-mouthed 10% of the current player base would actually stop playing the game if the sounds were changed. If I'm being honest with you, those people wouldn't be worth it, given how they're probably the same people who rage quit in the middle of a game just because they're not getting their way or because you're trying to talk to them, or they join other peoples games just to troll. Digressing, there was no reason why the sounds could not have been replaced. Quite honestly, I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed that Pragma seemed to not care about the fact that this game could be banned from AGNet, and I'm especially disappointed that he said no even after people spent money to try to bring this project to life. At the end of the day, it's his game and he has full control over whatever he decides to do. Even so, I'm disappointed in him. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531802/#p531802 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Jaseoffire via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Actually, this brings into view something that's not only been addressed here but on the other thread about attempting to deal with this. The greatest flaw of society and laws. If no one notices a legal violation, it can't be punished. Of course, relying on that principle is risky, but ignoring it gives an incomplete picture of things. That being said, I never thought this would happen, but I think I am with Jayde in full on this topic. Never thought I'd ever type those words considering on how many topics we've clashed on in the past. On the matter of copyright, I think we might be in near complete agreement. It's a sucky and broken law, but one we have to deal with sooner or later. That being said, I'd be in complete favor of at least a re-consideration of exceptions. As to which way that reconsideration should go is another matter entirely, but eventually we will be forced to do so anyways. It just depends on what forces our hand. Also, we should consider an initiative to change international law, but that would only be possible if we could get more clout. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531769/#p531769 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Zarvox via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! My rhythm rage level creator is composed of operating system sounds, mainly Apple. Does this count as stealing assets as well? I am willing to change them if so. Also I should mention the sounds are not encrypted.One other question. If rhythm rage is invested under rule 3, would my project still be allowed on here? I ask because the manual does give a direct download to rhythm rage. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531755/#p531755 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Zarvox via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! My rhythm rage level creator is composed of operating system sounds, mainly Apple. Does this count as stealing assets as well? I am willing to change them if so. Also I should mention the sounds are not encrypted. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531755/#p531755 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Zarvox via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! My rhythm rage level creator is composed of operating system sounds, mainly Apple. Does this count as stealing assets as well? I am willing to change them if so. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531755/#p531755 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! It's probably due to that content ID system. If the system can't identify the material, it can't flag it. Someone would have to make a claim which would have to be reviewed. This is just a guess. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531727/#p531727 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Honestly though? I've heard literally hundreds of covers on YouTube. I've seen all kinds of stuff that probably could've gotten flagged, and wasn't. I'm sure that all the takedown stuff you're talking about does in fact happen, but most of what I want to go dig up is still there and still accessible. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531698/#p531698 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! @94, the problem with your alternative is the equivalent of slapping a bandiad on a bleeding wound that is deeper than simply superfical. What you are in fact suggesting is that emerging talented and upcoming individuals willing to provide content ditch a market full of people to try and latch on to a market that is just developing and, sadly, realistically, does not show the kind of promise the average public would consider. The reason I say this is that the concept of lbry is based around its own cryptocurrency. To my knowledge, at present there is no truly successful cryptocurrency, and any that even show the slightest amount of success are closely monitored by Wall Street and friends. The end result of course is that only the big corporations at the top of the blockchain seriously end up benefiting. In short, unless lbry is secretly being driven by a sprawling company/set of entities or has a huge financial backing from the outside we're not aware of it is just as destined to fail as others that have gone around it and will go with it in future. the irony here is that if a cryptocurrency is actually going to succeed, it'll have to be something like Libra, and even that isn't looking too promising. PayPal along with EBay, Mastercard, Stripe and others left the initiative by the end of last year.Interestingly enough, unlike bitcoin which is a decentralized cryptocurrency which at least has some demand behind it as evidenced by the fact that there are now upwards of 18 million bitcoins in circulation, Libra is entirely centralized, fully relying on the central bank and existing national currencies already in existence. Ultimately though, it's a gamble. Facebook is in essence depending on two things to happen here, a high demand for the services it provides, and trust from its userbase to use its cryptocurrency. If either one of those two requirements is not fully met Libra two will fail.So, in short, because youtube is driven by a company like google, overthrowing the kind of stranglehold it has placed on us and our communities, be we gamers looking for playthroughs or music lovers looking for covers of famous hits, the reason is just not there. People browsing are just as bad now as they wer nearly ten years ago, when we tried to do our best to educate on the war concerning copyright matters. The war has not ended; the battlefield has only shifted. You're still at the mercy of huge companies and billion dollar investments that revolve around self-interest. What are ya gonna do about it! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531670/#p531670 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! @94, the problem with your alternative is the equivalent of slapping a bandiad on a bleeding wound that is deeper than simply superfical. What you are in fact suggesting is that emerging talented and upcoming individuals willing to provide content ditch a market full of people to try and latch on to a market that is just developing and, sadly, realistically, does not show the kind of promise the average public would consider. The reason I say this is that the concept of lbry is based around its own cryptocurrency. To my knowledge, at present there is no truly successful cryptocurrency, and any that even show the slightest amount of success are closely monitored by Wall Street and friends. The end result of course is that only the big corporations at the top of the blockchain seriously end up benefiting. In short, unless lbry is secretly being driven by a sprawling company/set of entities or has a huge financial backing from the outside we're not aware of it is just as destined to fail as others that have gone around it and will go with it in future. the irony here is that if a cryptocurrency is actually going to succeed, it'll have to be something like Libra, and even that isn't looking too promising. PayPal along with EBay, Mastercard, Stripe and others left the initiative by the end of last year.Interestingly enough, unlike bitcoin which is a decentralized cryptocurrency which at least has some demand behind it as evidenced by the fact that there are now upwards of 18 million bitcoins in circulation, Libra is entirely centralized, fully relying on the central bank and existing national currencies already in existence. Ultimately though, it's a gamble. Facebook is in essence depending on two things to happen here, a high demand for the services it provides, and trust from its userbase to use its cryptocurrency. If either one of those two requirements is not fully met Libra two will fail.So, in short, because youtube is driven by a company like google, overthrowing the kind of stranglehold it has placed on us and our communities, be we gamers looking for playthroughs or music lovers looking for covers of famous hits, the reason is just not there. People browsing are just as bad now as they wer ten years ago, when we tried to do our best to educate on the war concerning copyright matters. The war has not ended; the battlefield has only shifted. You're still at the mercy of huge companies and billion dollar investments that revolve around self-interest. What are ya gonna do about it! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531670/#p531670 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! If the conspiracy-theory type stuff is on the level of so-called "plandemic" crap, then yeah, it's no wonder that YouTube is pulling it down.Some conspiracy theories and longshots don't hurt anyone. Some cost lives when the gullible believe them and put themselves and others at risk.Agreed wholeheartedly that copyright is corrupt, however. It's a broken system and it favours those with knowledge and resources. It's not quite as hard as you're making it sound in order to get something copyrighted, but it's no easy feat. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531662/#p531662 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : queenslight via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! @95Found it!https://lbry.tv/@When_The_Shit_Goes_Dow … Ossebaard/ URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531648/#p531648 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : queenslight via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! @95Found it!https://lbry.tv/@When_The_Shit_Goes_Dow … ssebaard:0 URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531648/#p531648 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : black_mana via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! well, i mite start my tts channel in there soon URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531639/#p531639 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Jaseoffire via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Yeah. Copyright is broken beyond all heck. Now, I believe you can register your copyright after the infringement, then sue on the infringement. You won't get the windfall if you had done it before hand, but you can still get comped for the loss from the infringement. Still doesn't help if you don't have the money to register, though. Though if you do, just make sure your registration is complete before filing suit. It sucks, but good luck getting anyone to untangle the mess of spagetti law to fix the darned thing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531638/#p531638 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ignatriay via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! @94 if she has a channel named fall cabal, then yes,its the same woman i'm talking about. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531637/#p531637 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : queenslight via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Sharing my LBRY thread here, just so yall not forget that there is a YouTube alternative.@93 i believe the woman you're speaking of, has an LBRY channel now too, thanks to YouTube's craziness. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531636/#p531636 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ignatriay via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Slightly off topic, however on the youtube subject,@79,Youtube is corrupt as hell. To give you an example besides the ones you mentioned, I was looking at... a lot of you will call it conspiracy theory, however I call it something else but that's off the point. Anyway. This one channel is talking so called conspiracy, and youtube has been deleting her content, removing her viewers, etc. However, is this was just harmless conspiracy, there would be no reason to delete the content. The fact they are... speaks volumes, there is more to what she's saying besides conspiracy... That's just one instance, but as said before youtube is corrupt. And yet they claim that one is free to post what they want? Slease. That is bull. I'll be making a topic on this in a bit, it might make for a interesting dcscussion.Copyright is only used to protect, to be blunt, those with money. Let me give you an example. I record a sound. By right, as soon as I recorded said sound, I automaticly own copyright of it. However, say, someone steels the sounds i've recorded, if I never put my sounds in, I could be wrong here but I believe its congress or something? Really don't remember, but its where you can optain copyright for your stuff... If I don't put my sounds there, if someone steels them, just as an example, well I would be fucked because even though I own copyright by right as soon as I recorded said sounds, because I didn't submit them with the government to get a copyright, I cant sue, e?en though copyright is automatic when you create something or record, in this case, a new sound. To be blunt copyright is only there to protect the ritch for lack of a better word. Well not the ritch specificlly, but you get my point. It is a highly flawed system baced on money. Have it? Good, go for it. Don't have the funds? Well fuck you, even though you have copyright by right, still fuck you, we don't give a single fuck, because you didn't submit it to be officinally recogniced for coppyright. Its bullshit. Then again, doublestandards. Its sad and infuriating that it is this way... but its the law. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531629/#p531629 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ignatriay via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! Slightly off topic, however on the youtube subject,@79,Youtube is corrupt as hell. To give you an example besides the ones you mentioned, I was looking at... a lot of you will call it conspiracy theory, however I call it something else but that's off the point. Anyway. This one channel is talking so called conspiracy, and youtube has been deleting her content, removing her viewers, etc. However, is this was just harmless conspiracy, there would be no reason to delete the content. The fact they are... speaks volumes, there is more to what she's saying besides conspiracy... That's just one instance, but as said before youtube is corrupt. And yet they claim that one is free to post what they want? Slease. That is bull. I'll be making a topic on this in a bit, it might make for a interesting dcscussion. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531629/#p531629 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum!
2020-05-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : black_mana via Audiogames-reflector
Re: how far have we really taken these rules on the forum! i sorta came late to reply to this topic, but i do agree with post 1 here, i honestly didn't expect the reactions on that topic, just because of a mac vm link, really? i didin't want to argue in that topic because honestly it would've bin pointless, but sence this topic was created i should step out and say my opinion as well, and thumbs up to nocturnus, you had a point there URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531628/#p531628 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
