Re: Rule changes in developers room?
2015-10-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : samtupy1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room? I think something like that would be cool. I've sort of scene similar things happen. Whare a poster just asks a question, then is told to do something way differently. This wasn't on the forum but another perfect example, but I was in a skype call, and they asked what web host I used. I said blue host and got jumped on like heck about oh, no one uses that, stop using it, they rip you off etc. Similar to what I sometimes see here. Just my take, I think that maybe suggesting a programing language would be real cool, some people might do it. But as steve has clearly shown that doesn't happen all the time. It's happened to me, just not on the forum. However what i'm saying is I know what it feels like because it's been done to me, and mind you that was in a skype call. Just jumping all over someone in public like that isn't cool. If there was a topic, just me and what i'd say, is that there should be no reason that you try to act rude/disrespect ful because someone uses another programing language though you might not like it. You shouldn't be "telling" people what do do, just maybe recommending it in a calm way. I've scene it on the dev room quite a fiew times. I can't remember any examples at the current time, but basicly I agree with every one of you. I wouldn't say there should be a new "rule" or anything like that, I agree with dark, people should just get a stirn reminder that we are not here to bash people in or tell them off for just doing something that person doesn't like. I really don't know how else to say what i'm trying to lol. Basicly what you all said. I'm probably being more repetitive then i'm trying to so sorry if I am. Anyway, completely agree, there just needs to be a stirn reminder to recommend, rather than get mad and atempt to force/make the person who asked the question feel bad for not doing anything rong at all. Just my take on the m atter. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=234078#p234078 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room?
Re: Rule changes in developers room? @Aprone, there are a couple of "moderation warning please read" old topics kicking around in site and forum feedback (I initially posted them to general game discussion and then moved them after a week). The basic idea is just essentially a stern, general public warning naming no names, thing of it like a public health warning from the police or similar. Basically it's just a case of "Warning! Some people are behaving in such and such a fashion which is bad for these reasons and will stop now or else!" Feel free to make the tone rather sharp, you are trying to get people's attention after all. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=233741#p233741 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room?
2015-10-03
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Aprone via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room? I feel the same way. I haven't looked at the developers section for a long time, with the exception of the guy looking to do a research paper, so I'm not aware of the specifics arguments that may be going on in there right now. It would be a difficult rule to enforce so maybe the answer is to just jump in as moderators when people start going down that road.I believe people should always be free to discuss and debate just about anything, but I believe severestormsteve is referring to something entirely different. The times people argue about language X, almost never come after someone Asks about different languages, or which one they should use. Someone will comment on something they've done or are going to do, and people jump in to advertise and argue for their preferred method. I'm not sure what it would fall under, but it's a form of hostile thread hijacking that definitely turns people away.People can ignore it, but the hijacking tends to disrupt the entire thread from that point forward. Ignoring doesn't help much when you can no longer carry on the intended conversation. Even ignoring wears thing after enough time. I consider myself to be one of the more stubborn, thick-skinned, and set-in-my-ways developers around and even I find myself avoiding topics that could pull me into programming arguments. It's a needless headache, but considerably more than that to people who are insecure and just starting out.I'm not sure what the solution is, but I would love to see people openly discussing programming techniques, tips, and ideas without fear of being harassed. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=233635#p233635 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room?
Re: Rule changes in developers room? Exactly what I was also trying to get across severe storm steve, and that's exactly what's fustrated me as well. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=233667#p233667 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room?
Re: Rule changes in developers room? People can state their opinions as long as they don't do it divisively. That would preclude hostile thread takeovers. This is not dissimilar to the approach taken by sites such as StackOverflow (which is, of course, hardly free of this nonsense either). Having said this, I feel it's important to recognise that programming languages, like everything, have costs and benefits and it's not appropriate to exclude discussion of them.Of course, ignoring only works if you have already concluded that the person you're ignoring is beyond reprieve. I don't say it's an ideal approach in an environment that is hoped to be friendly, but it is an option; if everybody did it, the trolls* would go away. In my opinion, it's a good idea to make a habit of it, both because it minimises the impact of flame wars and because it is a reality on other, more free-for-all forums and mailing lists that people don't know restraint or good manners.* I am re luctant to use the word "Troll" in this context because merely being an impolite, grandstanding, self-obsessed and egotistical individual (and thereby being incapable of tolerance towards others) is not actually the same as a deliberate attempt to anger or inflame. But, if the cap fits ... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=233669#p233669 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room?
Re: Rule changes in developers room? "just ignore it" is never an answer in my book to forum problems, or indeed any sort of problems, and after all it just lets people get away with whatever the bad behaviour is.The problem about creating rules is as I said, that this is a difficult process to quantify, and I'd be too concerned any dogmatic rule would cause more fear among the innocent than the guilty, which is why I suggested creating a "this has got to stop on pain of punishment" type of topic and then dealing with offenders appropriately, after all the sorts of free discussions of programming languages you describe Aprone would only be to the bennifit of the forum and indeed the community at large.As I said if you want to put together a "Stop or else" moderation message and stick it up in the developer's roomthat would be appreciated and a good start in dealing with any offenders after that point. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=233639#p233639 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room?
2015-10-03
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room? I agree with you moderators, -- whatever solves that problem is fine as far as I'm concerned. But here's what really got me ticked.In post 1 of the "Ideal way of creating a map parser?" topic, Omar Alverado wrote,Hello again.This is something that I've been wondering about for a while.Here is what I have theorized.Ideally, I need to create a class/constructor.I should, ideally, load the map into a file, and then deserialize it into a dictionary.Here is where I get a little confused, in terms of logistics, not in terms of code ok, actually both.I get that bgt has a dictionary.exists function. In theory, I could use that, to find my values set in my map file.So let's say I have the ability to set the room's starting x (roomx), ending x (roommaxx), sound (roomsound), and type (roomtype) (footstep sounds) for now.I could use the dictionary.exists function to find those values roomx, roommax x, roomsound, and roomtype, assuming those are the values I have defined in my roombuilding class.What I don't know, is how I can get the engine to load the file nicely, in other words prevent the engine from creating a room, on top of a room.Keep in mind this is all sudo code, so I actually haven't sat down to try putting it into bgt code.If I did the engine would probably think I was trying to end the world lols.Thanks for reading! This strongly emplys he is using bgt, he says so. It's what he needs help in. Then, post 6 comes out of nowhere, written by Ctoth.*drops a dead horse**pulls out a whip*Ahem.You know, if you used a higher level language, maybe even one inspired by a particular British comedy troop, a lot of this stuff becomes a simple matter of calling a library function that someone's already helpfully written for you.Want to parse your map? Well, write it in YAML or a similar s erialized data structure format and just read it in, have stuff transparently and magically go where it belongs.Want to use a physics engine? Go pick one and use it. Box2D is great and easy to use.Want to see how to do something? Use the resources of the full sighted programming community, get access to StackOverflow, to millions of lines of code already written for you.The time it takes to get up to speed in a mainstream language repays itself quickly, and then just keeps paying off.In fact...I feel pretty strongly about this, so why not put my actions behind my words?If anyone wants to come to me with running BGT source code, I will help you port it to Python. I'm pretty busy during the day, but will mentor anyone who wants the help, and even directly help you port the code over an evening or two.That in no way helps Omar. He needed help with BGT as he said. So while I agree with you guys that friendly debates should be allowed, it i s my personal belief that when someone asks a question about BGT, only to have another member jump all over them (and was that not a snarky, rude remark?), telling them to switch languages, that's waay too far. It's one thing to debate such issues, another to force someone into debating these issues. So again, if you need to know the source (or final source) of my frustration,http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?id=17061 URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=233665#p233665 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room?
2015-10-03
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Aprone via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room? Dark I'd be happy to make such a post, I'm just not sure where to start, or what exactly it should contain. I'll give it some thought. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=233702#p233702 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room?
Re: Rule changes in developers room? @post 7 My problem really isn't with the hole programming language debate in general. I can stay out of it and I offten stay out of programming language debates. Its the way its being done and where its being done that's bothering severe storm steve and I. This hole python/use x programming language thing seems to be mainly targeted at though's using bgt and pure basic, I know because I was one of the first few who got harassed about it and told my projects would fail because of the choice I picked, in fact, it was done on this very forum a while back. Now if someone of course, had asked what programming language to do something in etc etc, and if these guys had politely said, have you considered python or visual basic or pure basic? Their wouldn't be any situation with this problem. I've of course, have suggested pure basic to though's who asked. In fact, severe storm steve is one of though's people. I got him started on pure basic and taught hi m the basics he needed to know. I didn't force him into it, I didn't give him a full run around of features, the topic of pure basic simpply came up and he was reel intrested after what I had achieved with it. What I don't support is the sudden bursting onto topics going you know, if you had used this and this and if this were done, you'd be a lot better that is where I personally view it as going far, then in post 18 of the ideal way to create a map parcer topic where bgt and pure basic were absolutely ript apart in faver of python and c++, when the topic wasn't even about which language to use, that is prytty much going overboard, at least in my book. If such a rule were put in place i'd dephanatly come on this forum a lot more. As it stands, the main reason I don't intrude onto this forum all that much is because of situations like this that honestly make me feel quite unwelcome. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=233624#p233624 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room?
Re: Rule changes in developers room? Firstly I'll say I probably ought to appologise. I freely admit I don't frequent the developer's room as much, mostly because as a none programmer I don't feel qualified to judge many of the issues (one reason why we have Aprone as a Mod), however I wasn't aware the situation had gone that bad. In fairness Jack is correct in post 7, that this is not just a type of behaviour unique to discussions of programming languages, it also occurs with screen readers, operating systems, and hell just about most anything else, indeed I do recall saying something about that sort of behaviour in This topic when I listed all of the ways to cause major arguements. So, yes, it does need dealing with, and I fully support any decisions which Aprone, Aaron or anyone else want to make regarding this. Indeed, I'll say this situation does make me consider whether appointing another mod erator might be a good idea simply for the purposes of coverage, (though that is a matter I will contact Arqmeister, Aaron and Aprone about privately).However, my problem with trying to create a rule about this sort of behaviour is it is simply not a very easy thing to create rules about, after all friendly and good natured comparisons of screen readers/programming languages/books/operating systems/types of breakfast cerial, is actually just what this sort of forum is for, and as with most things, the majority of people are! able to keep things friendly. I don't want a situation where anyone is afraid of making any comparison at all, or still worse, one where people are constrained not! to discuss things other than what the first poster of a topic mentions. The best you could do is some sort of rule such as "Be nice to each other and respect other people's opinions" but really "be nice to each other" is pretty much the summation of t he rules here anyway . So,I would first suggest that a stern moderation warning topic be created for that part of the forum, and be stuck there for at least a weak. I don't mind creating that topic myself, but perhaps Aaron or Aprone or someone more familiar with the situation than myself might be in a better position to do so. After that point, any zealotry could legitimately recieve a warning or worse or be reported.Then as I have said, I believe appointing another moderator, and one who perhaps is more familiar with discussions over there would be a good idea, which is a matter i will take in hand, indeed this is something I've considered for a while given the current size of the community. If these measures do not work, maybe then it is time to start draughting rules, but I'd prefer to avoid that if at all possible both b ecause as I said, such a rule would be very hard to formulate, and because I wouldn't want legitimate discussions to be affected by such, though if it becomes necessary of course it's something we'd have to do. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=233632#p233632 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Rule changes in developers room?
2015-10-02
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Rule changes in developers room? Hi moderation team,to the dismay of myself and other members of this forum seeking programming advice, the developers room is becoming somewhat of a war zone. When questions are asked in that room, even simple ones such as how to create a map parser, a specific group of people, (it's usually the same ones), reply to that topic seemingly with the intent to cause turmoil, by bringing up what they view as better languages, which is a sensative topic here. If you would please, add a rule to the forum against this, as it tends to lead to more flame waring, less productivity.Thanks,Steve. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=233540#p233540 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room?
2015-10-02
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Aprone via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room? Severestormsteve, speaking only as a fellow forumite, I really like this idea. I find I almost never, ever, comment on code related topics even when I think I can help. There is always someone who will turn it into an programmer e-peen display. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=233571#p233571 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room?
Re: Rule changes in developers room? Not wishing to discount the complaint, but you can of course just ignore any comment that gives you any heartburn. Some people will never be convinced of the logic of letting people choose what works for them; ignore them. It's regrettably too often the case that people stick to what they know and defend it rigorously, irrespective of the reasons. In my experience the real reason is simply fandom; they learned it and now they know it, so anything else must be wrong and people who don't use it must simply be worse off than they are. Use what works for you. If it gets results and makes you happy, it's all good. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=233574#p233574 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room?
Re: Rule changes in developers room? I agree with all of you, although I won't be putting this rule into effect straight away, simply because I'd like Dark to know as well and want to make sure it's OK with him. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=233596#p233596 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room?
2015-10-02
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room? Agreed with you both. The main reason I set this up was the following:1. I may be able to ignore these, but others can't. Thus, when something is posted, they all come back and spam the topic with arguments, bringing the topic to a point of closure, and digressing significantly from the original topic.2. This could get in the way of helpful advice. While I'd be willing to skip over the arguments and close the topic after I got my help, there could be a decent forum member passing by to give their advice, only to have it deleted and unread by the topic creator because they're unwilling to read after a certain point, because they assume it's all flame wars and drama as is always caused in these situations. Thing is, they'd be completely reasonable to have that mentality.3. If this keeps happening, no one will want to come to the audio games.net forum to ask about coding audio... games. And then what good is that? This is why I r eally believe the moderators should step in and clamp down on this. You guys do a great job of moderating this forum, and I think it'd be even better if this issue were stopped.Thanks,Steven. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=233591#p233591 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room?
Re: Rule changes in developers room? I for one sirtenly agree with this rule, seeing as i'm one of the first few people that these people target when it comes to my choice. @post 3 i've done my absolute best to try and ignore them. I am fully with the belief that users should have the choice of programming languages with out having to be commanded that they switch to another one. After all, if we were all intended to use one central programming language, why are their even other languages around? Honestly, this sort of thing is exactly why I quit looking in the developers room in the firstplace, and had the argument on the ideal way to create a map parcer yesterday not spun into personal attacks directed at the languages of my 2 best friends and myself, I would have gladly stayed out. So yes, i'm fully in faver of such a rule and would be perfectly happy when it got created. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=233604#p233604 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Rule changes in developers room?
Re: Rule changes in developers room? I totally and completely agree with that rule. It can be even harder for someone who's just learning how to program who gets targeted. For example, someone tries to ask a question about programming a 2d audio game in python, a complainer comes up saying hey, don't program games in python, python sucks, switch to *insert programming language here* but, it's their choir. Unfortunately, programming languages, screen readers, and operating systems are the leading causes of things like this. Someone works for someone, they will defend it. And it's not just in the blind community either, in deed the heat rages on those online fights between Apple vs Samsung fans, for example. The problem is not everyone gives respect to freedom of choice, and instead tell people to use this and that language simply because it works for them. Everyone's different, everyone's got different learning methods. And it makes no sense either. Imagine someone trying to learn python or pure basic being targeted and told to instead use c++. Ok seriously, with all the choices around today, the common programmer of today will almost never start to learn off of c right away. So there you go, my 2cents on this. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=233619#p233619 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
