Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Santo Espirito - Marriages (1708-1751)
Thank you all, Doug, that is my plan, that takes time! I was just jumping from generation into generation, backwards, just to see where I could go in the backbone of the tree, sem olhar para os galhos but I know I have a lot of work! Some of the branches I caught along the way were pure luck ;-) Thank you Nancy, I will eventually some day, dig the hole Island I am aware of that, we might cross in to Cabral one day, I have it from both Paternal and Maternal side. Cheri, I can see that now for my unhappiness, and yes I already know that I will have to read some of those books. I also read that Velho Arruda wrote a good one, being from Santa Maria, maybe he got those books in better conditions, I don't know. I am curious when did these books deteriorated, I can tell you one thing, humidity in these Islands can be a killer for just about anything you can think of, specially electronics! Thank you Manoel, I will consider that in the future to see if I connect there! Obrigado Hermano, é curioso esse material andava no CCA e eu nao sabia! Muito Bom!! It seams that he got the same doubts I have, I know I wont find proof considering the deterioration of he books, but I still have hope in the birth records to get more info as they go back a little bit more than the marriages! Obrigado a todos! On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 8:50 PM, Hermano C. Pires lagoe...@hotmail.comwrote: Ricardo I haven't followed this thread closely, however I wonder if the image in the attached link, confusing as it is, might be of help. Hermano http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GENEALOGIAS-CARLOSMACHADO/GENEALOGIAS-CARLOSMACHADO_item1/P77.html -- From: gfsche...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 08:41:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Santo Espirito - Marriages (1708-1751) To: azores@googlegroups.com Ricardo, Sometimes the early book was lost. Or it was in such bad shape that they could not film or digitize it. It's literally falling apart. I don't know if Rodrigo Rodrigues or Frutoso did much with the Santa Maria records. That could be one option. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Ricardo Chaves -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca
I can't get it all, but it does say they are not yet married (recibidos) because they have not completed some penance for being 3rd and 4th degree consanguinity. They are both natives of the parish. Mnk -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca
Thank you! This is my first record with the consanguinity in it. This means they were 3rd and 4th degree cousins, is that correct? -Original Message- From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mnk Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2014 7:59 AM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca I can't get it all, but it does say they are not yet married (recibidos) because they have not completed some penance for being 3rd and 4th degree consanguinity. They are both natives of the parish. Mnk -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Santo Espirito - Marriages (1708-1751)
Ricardo, I know Canto did his work in the latter 1800s. And Rodrigo Rodrigues did corrections and amendments in the early 1900s. Take the Achada marriage index, for example. Canto created it sometime in the late 1800s. The early Achada records are really bad - near the level of the Santa Maria records. Canto wrote a lot of . where he couldn't read or wrote partial names (M_). Rodrigues wrote on the front of Achada's index that he when through and corrected and amended Canto's work and then Rodrigues wrote the date 1929. So I have a time line for when the books were deteriorating. And I can see 2 genealogists just struggle with it too. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca
Erica B, 1st degree: Uncle/niece, aunt/nephew, really close stuff. 2nd degree: 1st cousins 3rd degree: 2nd cousins 4th degree: 3rd cousins After that, they didn't care. This is only for consanguinity or blood relatives. There's also affinity, where the wife dies so he marries his sister-in-law (as one example). Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Still Looking for.Joseph Silva, Born 1830, I believe Flores. Went to boston, then came to Australia in 1855.
1805 Madalena, in Lajes do Pico, Pico Island, Azores, Portugal •_UID: 9928938A34DD450D97CB2DB95560FD437EAB This was connected to Luiza's Birth. The parents details are the only hint I have ever come across. So I can only presume that Louisa was born on Pico in 1805. Thank you so much, Lyn * On Saturday, 5 April 2014 04:13:47 UTC+11, luiznoia wrote: Lyn, What is the origin of the parents information? If it's correct , it's a good clue with the mother from Madelena Pico, There's a Pico database that is searchable on the NEPS site here: http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/genealogias.html Eric On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 4:48 AM, crazy...@live.com.au javascript:wrote: Thank you Thank you, That is the right ship with the right Date. It was all great information. Thank you again for your trouble. I have found a few bits and pieces in trove, but not that one. Thank you over and Over. Well just keep on with the Parents. Thank you, Lyn :) On Friday, 4 April 2014 10:56:23 UTC+11, luiznoia wrote: Melbourne Argus 1855 arrival of the ship from the TROVE site Eric Edgar On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 3:47 AM, crazy...@live.com.au wrote: Hello there, I hope I am doing this right. If not, let me know. Yes I have been told several times that Joseph's Parents were very poor farmers. Apparently the older children were encouraged to go to Boston and get jobs. I was also told that the, boat Ship??? that they travelled on, smashed against the rocks, took on water and eventually fell apart. Everyone survived, and they were picked up and taken to Martha's Vineyard. I was told that his Brother Emmanual and a Sister Maria, his best friend, Emanuel Jose, who came to Australia with him, all had to work on Martha's Vineyard, for board and Lodgings. From there they went to Boston and then all went different ways. Emanuel Jose and Joseph Silva, took Sea -mans Jobs. Eventually at the end of 1854 they set sail on The White Swallow. The clipper was loaded with cargo and headed to Guam. There were no passengers and Captain Gore. They arrived at Sorrento, the beginning of the mouth of Port Phillip Bay and 11 men jumped ship. Joseph Silva Emanuel Jose were 2 of the 11. A bounty was placed on all of their heads, but the men went inland and got miners jobs. None of them were ever caught. That is all I know about Josephs Early days, until 1855. His Fathers name is supposed to be Jose da Silva (Silvaria)Your 3rd great grandfather Birth in Western Isles, The Azores. Death *Living* Death 1836 in Santa Cruz, Flores Island, Azores, Portugal His Mothers name that I have is, Luisa Rosa Franchesca FranciscoYour 3rd great grandmother Birth 1805 in Madalena, in Lajes do Pico, Pico Island, Azores, Portugal Death *Living* Death 1880 in Santa Cruz ou Lajes. Flores, The Azores. I just really am very unsure about the parents. Enjoy and Thank you Lyn On Thursday, 3 April 2014 03:15:32 UTC+11, rchaves wrote: Cheri have I read wrong or understood wrong, or Lyn already heard about his parents names? That's why I asked! * ..I have been told his Parents names, but, each time I check this out...** but, each time I check this out. the answers don't seem to fit* On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 4:07 PM, Cheri Mello gfsc...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, there are enough people in this (Google) group, but not in the DNA Project. We have 357 Family Finder tests, we have 239 Y-DNA 37 marker results and and only 22 more have gone out to the Y67 level (if I'm reading this chart right). There are 655 total people in the DNA project. There are 1221 members of this Google Group, although some emails are duplicates (home and work, for instance). Family Finder - most definitely. Y67 would be good, but be sure to get the son of the son of the son of the son of the pai incognito and be prepared to wait. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Ricardo Chaves -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca
If I might offer a slight clarification, 1st degree of consanguinidade is brother/sister.Of course, you don't see that, but do see 1st and 2nd degree, which is uncle/niece, as Cheri stated.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca From: Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 8:27 am To: Azores Genealogy azores@googlegroups.com Erica B,1st degree: Uncle/niece, aunt/nephew, really close stuff.2nd degree: 1st cousins3rd degree: 2nd cousins4th degree: 3rd cousins After that, they didn't care.This is only for consanguinity or blood relatives. There's also affinity, where the wife dies so he marries his sister-in-law (as one example). Cheri Mello -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca
I thought a brother marrying a sister was forbidden by law in most countries and considered incest? So what is incest in the Azores and Portugal? Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] first degree of consanguinity
Of course. And that's why you don't ever see a 1st degree connection getting married.Frankly, it's surprising to me 1st and 2nd degree was ever allowed. Maybe it was a way to generate more money by the church, so they allowed it? I'm assuming they had to pay a bigger fee for dispensation, but it's possible even poor people could get it free.I'm changing the subject to reflect this discussion. Look for the previous comments under the subject "Help with baptism from Ponta Garca."Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca From: Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 8:49 am To: Azores Genealogy azores@googlegroups.com I thought a brother marrying a sister was forbidden by law in most countries and considered incest? So what is incest in the Azores and Portugal?Cheri Mello -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Surname Ferro
This is related in origin to Ferreira, meaning an ironworker or blacksmith. Eric On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel rfrancispimen...@comcast.net wrote: *According to Guill, Ferro is a surname.* *Rick* *Richard Francis Pimentel* *Spring, TX* *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *climbatr...@gmail.com *Sent:* Friday, April 4, 2014 12:56 AM *To:* azores@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [AZORES-Genealogy] Surname Ferro Hello everyone. Is Ferro a surname?An abbreviated version of another name? Thank you. Suzanne -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Still Looking for.Joseph Silva, Born 1830, I believe Flores. Went to boston, then came to Australia in 1855.
I don't understand what that is. It seems a identification number from some website? Eric On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 6:34 AM, crazy6g...@live.com.au wrote: 1805 Madalena, in Lajes do Pico, Pico Island, Azores, Portugal *_UID: 9928938A34DD450D97CB2DB95560FD437EAB This was connected to Luiza's Birth. The parents details are the only hint I have ever come across. So I can only presume that Louisa was born on Pico in 1805. Thank you so much, Lyn * On Saturday, 5 April 2014 04:13:47 UTC+11, luiznoia wrote: Lyn, What is the origin of the parents information? If it's correct , it's a good clue with the mother from Madelena Pico, There's a Pico database that is searchable on the NEPS site here: http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/genealogias.html Eric On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 4:48 AM, crazy...@live.com.au wrote: Thank you Thank you, That is the right ship with the right Date. It was all great information. Thank you again for your trouble. I have found a few bits and pieces in trove, but not that one. Thank you over and Over. Well just keep on with the Parents. Thank you, Lyn :) On Friday, 4 April 2014 10:56:23 UTC+11, luiznoia wrote: Melbourne Argus 1855 arrival of the ship from the TROVE site Eric Edgar On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 3:47 AM, crazy...@live.com.au wrote: Hello there, I hope I am doing this right. If not, let me know. Yes I have been told several times that Joseph's Parents were very poor farmers. Apparently the older children were encouraged to go to Boston and get jobs. I was also told that the, boat Ship??? that they travelled on, smashed against the rocks, took on water and eventually fell apart. Everyone survived, and they were picked up and taken to Martha's Vineyard. I was told that his Brother Emmanual and a Sister Maria, his best friend, Emanuel Jose, who came to Australia with him, all had to work on Martha's Vineyard, for board and Lodgings. From there they went to Boston and then all went different ways. Emanuel Jose and Joseph Silva, took Sea -mans Jobs. Eventually at the end of 1854 they set sail on The White Swallow. The clipper was loaded with cargo and headed to Guam. There were no passengers and Captain Gore. They arrived at Sorrento, the beginning of the mouth of Port Phillip Bay and 11 men jumped ship. Joseph Silva Emanuel Jose were 2 of the 11. A bounty was placed on all of their heads, but the men went inland and got miners jobs. None of them were ever caught. That is all I know about Josephs Early days, until 1855. His Fathers name is supposed to be Jose da Silva (Silvaria)Your 3rd great grandfather Birth in Western Isles, The Azores. Death *Living* Death 1836 in Santa Cruz, Flores Island, Azores, Portugal His Mothers name that I have is, Luisa Rosa Franchesca FranciscoYour 3rd great grandmother Birth 1805 in Madalena, in Lajes do Pico, Pico Island, Azores, Portugal Death *Living* Death 1880 in Santa Cruz ou Lajes. Flores, The Azores. I just really am very unsure about the parents. Enjoy and Thank you Lyn On Thursday, 3 April 2014 03:15:32 UTC+11, rchaves wrote: Cheri have I read wrong or understood wrong, or Lyn already heard about his parents names? That's why I asked! * ..I have been told his Parents names, but, each time I check this out...** but, each time I check this out. the answers don't seem to fit* On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 4:07 PM, Cheri Mello gfsc...@gmail.comwrote: Yes, there are enough people in this (Google) group, but not in the DNA Project. We have 357 Family Finder tests, we have 239 Y-DNA 37 marker results and and only 22 more have gone out to the Y67 level (if I'm reading this chart right). There are 655 total people in the DNA project. There are 1221 members of this Google Group, although some emails are duplicates (home and work, for instance). Family Finder - most definitely. Y67 would be good, but be sure to get the son of the son of the son of the son of the pai incognito and be prepared to wait. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Ricardo Chaves -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] first degree of consanguinity
I've seen one 1st degree of consanguinity. I think Eloise sent it to me a long time ago. In my college courses I don't remember any society marrying siblings. At least in Western culture. Cleopatra married her brother. Isn't that ancient history? I don't remember. Our studies didn't go back that far. At any rate, Portugal allowed siblings to marry? On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 8:57 AM, p...@dholmes.com wrote: Of course. And that's why you don't ever see a 1st degree connection getting married. Frankly, it's surprising to me 1st and 2nd degree was ever allowed. Maybe it was a way to generate more money by the church, so they allowed it? I'm assuming they had to pay a bigger fee for dispensation, but it's possible even poor people could get it free. I'm changing the subject to reflect this discussion. Look for the previous comments under the subject Help with baptism from Ponta Garca. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca From: Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 8:49 am To: Azores Genealogy azores@googlegroups.com I thought a brother marrying a sister was forbidden by law in most countries and considered incest? So what is incest in the Azores and Portugal? Cheri Mello -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] first degree of consanguinity
I won't believe that until I see it.I think it must have been 1st and 2nd mixed - uncle/niece.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] first degree of consanguinity From: Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 9:38 am To: Azores Genealogy azores@googlegroups.com I've seen one 1st degree of consanguinity. I think Eloise sent it to me a long time ago. In my college courses I don't remember any society marrying siblings. At least in Western culture. Cleopatra married her brother. Isn't that ancient history? I don't remember. Our studies didn't go back that far. At any rate, Portugal allowed siblings to marry? On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 8:57 AM, p...@dholmes.com wrote: Of course. And that's why you don't ever see a 1st degree connection getting married. Frankly, it's surprising to me 1st and 2nd degree was ever allowed. Maybe it was a way to generate more money by the church, so they allowed it? I'm assuming they had to pay a bigger fee for dispensation, but it's possible even poor people could get it free. I'm changing the subject to reflect this discussion. Look for the previous comments under the subject "Help with baptism from Ponta Garca."Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca From: Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 8:49 am To: Azores Genealogy azores@googlegroups.com I thought a brother marrying a sister was forbidden by law in most countries and considered incest? So what is incest in the Azores and Portugal?Cheri Mello -- -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca
If I may, there are two methods of qualification a) civil and b) canonic. The civil calculates starting at the top of the trunk and discounts (1). Parents (0) children (1) grandchildren (2) great grandchildren (3) The canonic begins at the lower branch. Children (0) Grandchildren (1) Great Grandchildren (2) Great Great Grandchildren (3). In this case of 3rd degree consanguinity the couple share the same great grandparents. It is confusing, but when reading church dispensations the canonic rule should be applied. Before canonic genetic qualification nothing was forbiden, intermarriage was allowed and anyone could marry anyone. Hope this is of some help. Best, On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote: I thought a brother marrying a sister was forbidden by law in most countries and considered incest? So what is incest in the Azores and Portugal? Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Santo Espirito - Marriages (1708-1751)
Thanks Cheri, I believe this is the end for me, he is the only first name Balthazar 20 to 25 years back of his son born in 1707, I saw the hole period and there a lot we can't read at all! Bottom Right, 5th record. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-B-1671-1699/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-B-1671-1699_item1/P26.html I'm off to Death Records to see if I find him there and see at least who he married with. Cheers On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote: Ricardo, I know Canto did his work in the latter 1800s. And Rodrigo Rodrigues did corrections and amendments in the early 1900s. Take the Achada marriage index, for example. Canto created it sometime in the late 1800s. The early Achada records are really bad - near the level of the Santa Maria records. Canto wrote a lot of . where he couldn't read or wrote partial names (M_). Rodrigues wrote on the front of Achada's index that he when through and corrected and amended Canto's work and then Rodrigues wrote the date 1929. So I have a time line for when the books were deteriorating. And I can see 2 genealogists just struggle with it too. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Ricardo Chaves -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: first degree of consanguinity
The incest taboo among siblings has been exempt among royalty of various cultures throughout history, one example being the royal Hawaiian families in fact it was encouraged they believe such unions produces superiors specimens. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 8:57:25 AM UTC-7, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: Of course. And that's why you don't ever see a 1st degree connection getting married. Frankly, it's surprising to me 1st and 2nd degree was ever allowed. Maybe it was a way to generate more money by the church, so they allowed it? I'm assuming they had to pay a bigger fee for dispensation, but it's possible even poor people could get it free. I'm changing the subject to reflect this discussion. Look for the previous comments under the subject Help with baptism from Ponta Garca. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca From: Cheri Mello gfsc...@gmail.com javascript: Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 8:49 am To: Azores Genealogy azo...@googlegroups.com javascript: I thought a brother marrying a sister was forbidden by law in most countries and considered incest? So what is incest in the Azores and Portugal? Cheri Mello -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca
Yes, Doug, I'm sure Cheri meant that when she said really close stuff. Personally, I classify it as incest. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 11:42:41 AM UTC-4, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: If I might offer a slight clarification, 1st degree of consanguinidade is brother/sister. Of course, you don't see that, but do see 1st and 2nd degree, which is uncle/niece, as Cheri stated. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca From: Cheri Mello gfsc...@gmail.com javascript: Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 8:27 am To: Azores Genealogy azo...@googlegroups.com javascript: Erica B, 1st degree: Uncle/niece, aunt/nephew, really close stuff. 2nd degree: 1st cousins 3rd degree: 2nd cousins 4th degree: 3rd cousins After that, they didn't care. This is only for consanguinity or blood relatives. There's also affinity, where the wife dies so he marries his sister-in-law (as one example). Cheri Mello -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Last name of the father of the groom (Jacome?)
Actually, there were two siblings named Victorino de Mello On Saturday, April 5, 2014 12:22:09 AM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote: Dano, Must be a different. My Vitorino, married to Maria Joaquina (I think) was the son of Antonio de Mello Constancia de Jesus. You must have different Victorino son of Antonio. On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Dano dpa...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: Cheri, I think our common Mello link is Victorino (1796/RQ) de Mello, but only because his father, Antonio, married Antonia Pimentel. Actually, as a result of that marriage all of Victorino's siblings are also common links. As for the earlier Mellos from Santa Maria probably the closest one to a link is Joao Mello da Moura, the first of the Santa Maria Moura de Mello siblings to be born in Sao Miguel. On Thursday, April 3, 2014 10:15:07 PM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote: Mine are Manuel Jacome married to Maria de Mello from Santa Maria, somewhere in the late 1600s. Don't remember if that's our common line or not, Dano. Cheri On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 6:48 PM, Dano dpa...@gmail.com wrote: I think both Jacome and Mello families were originally in Santa Maria, but, there are many more Mellos than Jacomes. On Thursday, April 3, 2014 5:55:58 PM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote: Technically, if I follow the top of my pedigree, I'm a Jacome, not a Mello. They came from Santa Maria island to Sao Miguel and settled around the Vila Franca area. On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 1:05 PM, pi...@dholmes.com wrote: In case anyone doesn't already know, this name is also a given name. My second cousin has the name Jácome. As a surname, it is also found on Terceira as far back as the early 1500s. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Last name of the father of the groom (Jacome?) From: Aaron Pereira perei...@gmail.com Date: Thu, April 03, 2014 12:48 pm To: azo...@googlegroups.com Maria, I've also wondered about the surname Jacome. There are a few places that I've seen it quite a bit: Nordeste, Sao Jorge, and Nordestinho. An ancestor of mine is a Manuel Jacome Rapozo, Sao Jorge, Nordeste I'm going to do some research of the surname Jacome and will post back here in the late hours of the night. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Last name of the father of the groom (Jacome?)
The Vitorino that you mention, is the same one I referred to. Perhaps, I muddled up the explanation by referring to Antonia da Trindade as Pimentel, when, in fact, she was actually the daughter of Joao Fagundes de Rebello who married Jose de Pimentel from Faial da Terra, 6-Jun-1763 (NSdP-PG). Jose Antonia were the parents of both Constancia Rosa and Balthazar Pimentel. All that aside, Antonio de Mello, Victorino's father, is still not related to me - but his wife, Constancia Rosa, and his children, including Victorino, are. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 12:22:09 AM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote: Dano, Must be a different. My Vitorino, married to Maria Joaquina (I think) was the son of Antonio de Mello Constancia de Jesus. You must have different Victorino son of Antonio. On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Dano dpa...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: Cheri, I think our common Mello link is Victorino (1796/RQ) de Mello, but only because his father, Antonio, married Antonia Pimentel. Actually, as a result of that marriage all of Victorino's siblings are also common links. As for the earlier Mellos from Santa Maria probably the closest one to a link is Joao Mello da Moura, the first of the Santa Maria Moura de Mello siblings to be born in Sao Miguel. On Thursday, April 3, 2014 10:15:07 PM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote: Mine are Manuel Jacome married to Maria de Mello from Santa Maria, somewhere in the late 1600s. Don't remember if that's our common line or not, Dano. Cheri On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 6:48 PM, Dano dpa...@gmail.com wrote: I think both Jacome and Mello families were originally in Santa Maria, but, there are many more Mellos than Jacomes. On Thursday, April 3, 2014 5:55:58 PM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote: Technically, if I follow the top of my pedigree, I'm a Jacome, not a Mello. They came from Santa Maria island to Sao Miguel and settled around the Vila Franca area. On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 1:05 PM, pi...@dholmes.com wrote: In case anyone doesn't already know, this name is also a given name. My second cousin has the name Jácome. As a surname, it is also found on Terceira as far back as the early 1500s. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Last name of the father of the groom (Jacome?) From: Aaron Pereira perei...@gmail.com Date: Thu, April 03, 2014 12:48 pm To: azo...@googlegroups.com Maria, I've also wondered about the surname Jacome. There are a few places that I've seen it quite a bit: Nordeste, Sao Jorge, and Nordestinho. An ancestor of mine is a Manuel Jacome Rapozo, Sao Jorge, Nordeste I'm going to do some research of the surname Jacome and will post back here in the late hours of the night. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca,
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Rita Reis and Pedro Dionisio
You didn't mention the name of a couple, just the name of one person. Also, if you're researching native Portuguese, you'll have better luck if you use the Portuguese version of their surname. Harris is not a Portuguese surname - could a person from a family named Harris have been born in Santa Maria, of course! However, it is more likely that if their name would become Harris, their surname would have been spelled Aires. Now, that only covers one member of the couple that you're researching. What was the surname of the other person? In which church/es were they each baptized? What were their respective dates of birth? W/O that information you'll find it quite difficult to succeed in your quest. On Friday, April 4, 2014 8:39:30 PM UTC-4, Liliana Harris wrote: I'm looking for this couple, almost certainly born on S Maria about 1835. The names aren't common but I've found no records there at all and nothing that matches those names closely enough on the other islands. Any help would be appreciated. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Surname Ferro
I went to school with 2 people named Ferro they were from Sao Miguel On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 12:28 PM, luiznoia . noblankt...@gmail.com wrote: This is related in origin to Ferreira, meaning an ironworker or blacksmith. Eric On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel rfrancispimen...@comcast.net wrote: *According to Guill, Ferro is a surname.* *Rick* *Richard Francis Pimentel* *Spring, TX* *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *climbatr...@gmail.com *Sent:* Friday, April 4, 2014 12:56 AM *To:* azores@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [AZORES-Genealogy] Surname Ferro Hello everyone. Is Ferro a surname?An abbreviated version of another name? Thank you. Suzanne -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- www.aldasplace.ca Alda B. owner/operator -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Rita Reis and Pedro Dionisio
I apologize for my previous sanctimonious reply. I neglected to see the caption above your message. However, those details that I mentioned are still pertinent to your success or failure. As for the names, they do look somewhat familiar, but, where, when - I couldn't say w/o more info. When decide to research your ancestors, you need as much info as you can get from family records, papers and correspondence, so as to steer you to the correct resources for your research. On Friday, April 4, 2014 8:39:30 PM UTC-4, Liliana Harris wrote: I'm looking for this couple, almost certainly born on S Maria about 1835. The names aren't common but I've found no records there at all and nothing that matches those names closely enough on the other islands. Any help would be appreciated. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] first degree of consanguinity
Doug, I agree, that marriage of 1st degree consanguinity, includes Father/Daughter, Mother/Son, and Grandparents/Grandchildren, as well as siblings (not sure that the uncle/niece, aunt/nephew is 1st or 2nd), would be banned by the Church as incest - especially in conservative Portugal, and, the Azores. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 1:27:21 PM UTC-4, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: I won't believe that until I see it. I think it must have been 1st and 2nd mixed - uncle/niece. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] first degree of consanguinity From: Cheri Mello gfsc...@gmail.com javascript: Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 9:38 am To: Azores Genealogy azo...@googlegroups.com javascript: I've seen one 1st degree of consanguinity. I think Eloise sent it to me a long time ago. In my college courses I don't remember any society marrying siblings. At least in Western culture. Cleopatra married her brother. Isn't that ancient history? I don't remember. Our studies didn't go back that far. At any rate, Portugal allowed siblings to marry? On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 8:57 AM, pi...@dholmes.com javascript: wrote: Of course. And that's why you don't ever see a 1st degree connection getting married. Frankly, it's surprising to me 1st and 2nd degree was ever allowed. Maybe it was a way to generate more money by the church, so they allowed it? I'm assuming they had to pay a bigger fee for dispensation, but it's possible even poor people could get it free. I'm changing the subject to reflect this discussion. Look for the previous comments under the subject Help with baptism from Ponta Garca. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca From: Cheri Mello gfsc...@gmail.com javascript: Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 8:49 am To: Azores Genealogy azo...@googlegroups.com javascript: I thought a brother marrying a sister was forbidden by law in most countries and considered incest? So what is incest in the Azores and Portugal? Cheri Mello -- -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Santo Espirito - Marriages (1708-1751)
I am going to send you a few from Ponta Garca that I traced to Vila Franca with very similar names, Gomes, Baltazar, Fontes and Melo, all from, or with links to Santa Maria about the same time period. You never know, it might help and I think they are related, although it may not be immediately. BARTOLOMEU DE1 FONTES was born in NS Assumpciao- Ilha de St Maria, res Vila Franca, and died Bef. 13 Dec 1711. He married MARIA DE MATOS. She was born in Vila Franca de Campo- Matriz, and died Bef. 13 Dec 1711. Children of BARTOLOMEU FONTES and MARIA MATOS are: 2.i.BELCHIOR2 GOMES, b. NS Assumpciao- Ilha de St Maria. BELCHIOR GOMES* (B**ARTOLOMEU* *DE*1* F**ONTES**)* was born in NS Assumpciao- Ilha de St Maria. He married MARIA DE MATOS 21 Jul 1715 in Vila Franca do Campo- Matriz, daughter of TOME COSTA and FRANCISCA MATOS. She was born in Vila Franca de Campo- Matriz. (This record states Maria de Mattos (th mother) cc Bartolomeu Fontes is native VFSM) 3. ii.BALTAZAR GOMES DE MELO, b. Abt. 1676, NS Assumpciao- Ilha de St Maria, res Vila Franca PG; d. 10 Nov 1754, Ponta Garca- NS da Piedade. BALTAZAR GOMES DE MELO* (B**ARTOLOMEU* *DE*1* F**ONTES**)* was born Abt. 1676 in NS Assumpciao- Ilha de St Maria, res Vila Franca PG, and died 10 Nov 1754 in Ponta Garca- NS da Piedade. He married ANTONIA DE MATOS 13 Dec 1711 in Vila Franca do Campo- Sao Miguel, daughter of FRANCISCO COSTA and A NTONIA MATOS. She was born in Vila Franca de Campo- Matriz, and died Bef. 10 Nov 1754. JR On Saturday, April 5, 2014 4:08:55 PM UTC-4, rchaves wrote: Thanks Cheri, I believe this is the end for me, he is the only first name Balthazar 20 to 25 years back of his son born in 1707, I saw the hole period and there a lot we can't read at all! Bottom Right, 5th record. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-B-1671-1699/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-B-1671-1699_item1/P26.html I'm off to Death Records to see if I find him there and see at least who he married with. Cheers On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Cheri Mello gfsc...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Ricardo, I know Canto did his work in the latter 1800s. And Rodrigo Rodrigues did corrections and amendments in the early 1900s. Take the Achada marriage index, for example. Canto created it sometime in the late 1800s. The early Achada records are really bad - near the level of the Santa Maria records. Canto wrote a lot of . where he couldn't read or wrote partial names (M_). Rodrigues wrote on the front of Achada's index that he when through and corrected and amended Canto's work and then Rodrigues wrote the date 1929. So I have a time line for when the books were deteriorating. And I can see 2 genealogists just struggle with it too. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Ricardo Chaves -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: first degree of consanguinity
I suppose the logic in Hawaiian royalty was that they were superior to begin with, so marriage to another such superior person couldn't help but produce more superior offspring.But I have never once seen any example of royal marriages to siblings. I think in Catholic countries, they would never get approval from the Pope. Thank goodness for that, at least.It reminds me of the book I read last year about early Irish society where they permitted first and second cousins to marry, but caught a lot of flak from Rome because of it and it forced many changes about 1000 years ago in the Catholic church in Ireland.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: first degree of consanguinity From: Antonio Faria antoniof1...@gmail.com Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 10:40 am To: azores@googlegroups.com The incest taboo among siblings has been exempt among royalty of various cultures throughout history, one example being the royal Hawaiian families in fact it was encouraged they believe such unions produces superiors specimens.On Saturday, April 5, 2014 8:57:25 AM UTC-7, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote:Of course. And that's why you don't ever see a 1st degree connection getting married.Frankly, it's surprising to me 1st and 2nd degree was ever allowed. Maybe it was a way to generate more money by the church, so they allowed it? I'm assuming they had to pay a bigger fee for dispensation, but it's possible even poor people could get it free.I'm changing the subject to reflect this discussion. Look for the previous comments under the subject "Help with baptism from Ponta Garca."Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca From: Cheri Mello gfsc...@gmail.com Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 8:49 am To: Azores Genealogy azo...@googlegroups.com I thought a brother marrying a sister was forbidden by law in most countries and considered incest? So what is incest in the Azores and Portugal?Cheri Mello -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: first degree of consanguinity
Anthony, I admit that Church Law was flouted on a few occasions, mostly in England, but the Church dealt with that harshly, as evidenced by the establishment of the Inquisition. Europe was the Church's domain for the better part of the last millennium.The Church takes its laws very seriously. What happened in Hawaii was beyond Church law, and not within the Church's domain, but, all the same, Christian missionaries preached against those same native customs to which you refer. Have you not seen the film Hawaii, nor read the book, by the same name, written by James Michener - upon which the film was based? Perhaps you should. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 1:40:45 PM UTC-4, Antonio Faria wrote: The incest taboo among siblings has been exempt among royalty of various cultures throughout history, one example being the royal Hawaiian families in fact it was encouraged they believe such unions produces superiors specimens. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 8:57:25 AM UTC-7, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: Of course. And that's why you don't ever see a 1st degree connection getting married. Frankly, it's surprising to me 1st and 2nd degree was ever allowed. Maybe it was a way to generate more money by the church, so they allowed it? I'm assuming they had to pay a bigger fee for dispensation, but it's possible even poor people could get it free. I'm changing the subject to reflect this discussion. Look for the previous comments under the subject Help with baptism from Ponta Garca. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca From: Cheri Mello gfsc...@gmail.com Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 8:49 am To: Azores Genealogy azo...@googlegroups.com I thought a brother marrying a sister was forbidden by law in most countries and considered incest? So what is incest in the Azores and Portugal? Cheri Mello -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: first degree of consanguinity
For what it is worth, in all of my experience researching Azorean genealogy, I have never found a marriage among siblings, not even among half-siblings. I have found marriages between uncle and niece and aunt and nephew, rare in number, but existing nevertheless. Incest is defined within a cultural context. Here in Massachusetts Yankees think that marriage between first cousins among Azoreans is yukky. But marriage between first cousins is perfectly legal in Massachusetts and if you traced the genealogies of the Braytons and Durfees you find that marriage to first cousins, often in succeeding generations, among Yankee farmers and cotton mill owners, was the rule, not the exception. John On Saturday, April 5, 2014 6:19 PM, Dano dpai...@gmail.com wrote: Anthony, I admit that Church Law was flouted on a few occasions, mostly in England, but the Church dealt with that harshly, as evidenced by the establishment of the Inquisition. Europe was the Church's domain for the better part of the last millennium.The Church takes its laws very seriously. What happened in Hawaii was beyond Church law, and not within the Church's domain, but, all the same, Christian missionaries preached against those same native customs to which you refer. Have you not seen the film Hawaii, nor read the book, by the same name, written by James Michener - upon which the film was based? Perhaps you should. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 1:40:45 PM UTC-4, Antonio Faria wrote: The incest taboo among siblings has been exempt among royalty of various cultures throughout history, one example being the royal Hawaiian families in fact it was encouraged they believe such unions produces superiors specimens. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 8:57:25 AM UTC-7, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: Of course. And that's why you don't ever see a 1st degree connection getting married. Frankly, it's surprising to me 1st and 2nd degree was ever allowed. Maybe it was a way to generate more money by the church, so they allowed it? I'm assuming they had to pay a bigger fee for dispensation, but it's possible even poor people could get it free. I'm changing the subject to reflect this discussion. Look for the previous comments under the subject Help with baptism from Ponta Garca. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca From: Cheri Mello gfsc...@gmail.com Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 8:49 am To: Azores Genealogy azo...@googlegroups.com I thought a brother marrying a sister was forbidden by law in most countries and considered incest? So what is incest in the Azores and Portugal? Cheri Mello -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: first degree of consanguinity
i have seen in old baptism records in Relva the mention of coitus damnatus. Manoel Em sábado, 5 de abril de 2014 20h04min20s UTC-3, John Raposo escreveu: For what it is worth, in all of my experience researching Azorean genealogy, I have never found a marriage among siblings, not even among half-siblings. I have found marriages between uncle and niece and aunt and nephew, rare in number, but existing nevertheless. Incest is defined within a cultural context. Here in Massachusetts Yankees think that marriage between first cousins among Azoreans is yukky. But marriage between first cousins is perfectly legal in Massachusetts and if you traced the genealogies of the Braytons and Durfees you find that marriage to first cousins, often in succeeding generations, among Yankee farmers and cotton mill owners, was the rule, not the exception. John On Saturday, April 5, 2014 6:19 PM, Dano dpa...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: Anthony, I admit that Church Law was flouted on a few occasions, mostly in England, but the Church dealt with that harshly, as evidenced by the establishment of the Inquisition. Europe was the Church's domain for the better part of the last millennium.The Church takes its laws very seriously. What happened in Hawaii was beyond Church law, and not within the Church's domain, but, all the same, Christian missionaries preached against those same native customs to which you refer. Have you not seen the film Hawaii, nor read the book, by the same name, written by James Michener - upon which the film was based? Perhaps you should. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 1:40:45 PM UTC-4, Antonio Faria wrote: The incest taboo among siblings has been exempt among royalty of various cultures throughout history, one example being the royal Hawaiian families in fact it was encouraged they believe such unions produces superiors specimens. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 8:57:25 AM UTC-7, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: Of course. And that's why you don't ever see a 1st degree connection getting married. Frankly, it's surprising to me 1st and 2nd degree was ever allowed. Maybe it was a way to generate more money by the church, so they allowed it? I'm assuming they had to pay a bigger fee for dispensation, but it's possible even poor people could get it free. I'm changing the subject to reflect this discussion. Look for the previous comments under the subject Help with baptism from Ponta Garca. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca From: Cheri Mello gfsc...@gmail.com Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 8:49 am To: Azores Genealogy azo...@googlegroups.com I thought a brother marrying a sister was forbidden by law in most countries and considered incest? So what is incest in the Azores and Portugal? Cheri Mello -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: first degree of consanguinity
I have never seen a first degree but I have seen lots of 4th, 3rd and second. Need to keep a few things in mind though. During the 18th and 19th centuries in Europe about 40% of marriages were among cousins. During someone's lifetime they might have travelled 20-30 miles from their home so they didn't know a lot of people to marry. Marrying cousins was a way to keep lands and other property in the family name and also seen as a way to keep blood lines pure. There is even an old Portuguese folk song about marrying cousins. I will ask my 85 year old mother and post it here. Herb -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Translation Help
Thanks to Doug for pointing me in the right direction in the search for my grandmother's birth record, I found the right one. I could use some help with the translation, especially the section following the name of her mother. This is what I have translated so far: On the 12th day of the month of July in the year 1874 in this parish church of Santissimo Trindade in the district of Lajes do Pico, diocese of Angra, I solemnly baptized an individual of the female sex to whom I gave the name Maria who was born in this parish at o'clock at night __, legitimate daughter of Jacinto Machado native of this parish and Isabel de Conceiçao of domestic occupation native of Sao Mateus of Magdelena island ?. Here's the link itself: http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1868-1875/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1868-1875_item1/P203.html She is record # 56. Luci -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: first degree of consanguinity
Marriage between first cousins has taken place more than once on my paternal line. One set of my great grandparents were first first cousins. In more recent generations in this same line, first cousin marriages have occurred with no apparent ill effects. I can cite one specific case where the two first cousins married and their son went on to get an advanced degree in finance. He subsequently married a non-cousin. His grandparents were both first cousins of mine. There's an old saying, when cousins marry, if the genes are good, you get geniuses, but if the genes are bad, you get idiots. John Vasconcelos On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 3:08 PM, p...@dholmes.com wrote: I suppose the logic in Hawaiian royalty was that they were superior to begin with, so marriage to another such superior person couldn't help but produce more superior offspring. But I have never once seen any example of royal marriages to siblings. I think in Catholic countries, they would never get approval from the Pope. Thank goodness for that, at least. It reminds me of the book I read last year about early Irish society where they permitted first and second cousins to marry, but caught a lot of flak from Rome because of it and it forced many changes about 1000 years ago in the Catholic church in Ireland. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: first degree of consanguinity From: Antonio Faria antoniof1...@gmail.com Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 10:40 am To: azores@googlegroups.com The incest taboo among siblings has been exempt among royalty of various cultures throughout history, one example being the royal Hawaiian families in fact it was encouraged they believe such unions produces superiors specimens. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 8:57:25 AM UTC-7, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: Of course. And that's why you don't ever see a 1st degree connection getting married. Frankly, it's surprising to me 1st and 2nd degree was ever allowed. Maybe it was a way to generate more money by the church, so they allowed it? I'm assuming they had to pay a bigger fee for dispensation, but it's possible even poor people could get it free. I'm changing the subject to reflect this discussion. Look for the previous comments under the subject Help with baptism from Ponta Garca. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca From: Cheri Mello gfsc...@gmail.com Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 8:49 am To: Azores Genealogy azo...@googlegroups.com I thought a brother marrying a sister was forbidden by law in most countries and considered incest? So what is incest in the Azores and Portugal? Cheri Mello -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: first degree of consanguinity
For what it's worth, as a comparison to what we see in the Azores, and especially in the smaller villages, I don't have any instances I've ever seen on my mother's Hungarian/Slovak side of cousins getting married. The villages were not huge, but still bigger than most Azorean villages. And so I guess they had a much easier time to find spouses who were unrelated. These were not big landowners, so property didn't seem to be much of a factor. On the other hand, another in-law from Hungary has noble lineage and her tree has many examples of cousins being married. It was clearly a huge factor of property.So it's something related to the social class and family wealth. Some of the more successful of my Pico ancestors have some descendants who married cousins related in up to three different ways. I'm sure most researchers have run across a couple related in something like the 2nd degree, and in the 3rd and 4th degree, but the one I have in mind was also related in another degree like maybe 3rd degree. And I have seen many examples of wealthy families on Terceira like this, as well.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: first degree of consanguinity From: Herb herbandj...@verizon.net Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 7:40 pm To: azores@googlegroups.com I have never seen a first degree but I have seen lots of 4th, 3rd and second. Need to keep a few things in mind though. During the 18th and 19th centuries in Europe about 40% of marriages were among cousins. During someone's lifetime they might have travelled 20-30 miles from their home so they didn't know a lot of people to marry. Marrying cousins was a way to keep lands and other property in the family name and also seen as a way to keep blood lines pure. There is even an old Portuguese folk song about marrying cousins. I will ask my 85 year old mother and post it here. Herb -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Need help translating the beginning of this baptismal record
The record I am looking at is the top entry on the right side. I have never seen one like this before. It appears that the child was unnamed. Did he die before they named him? http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOPEDRO-B-1700- 1729/SMG-VF-SAOPEDRO-B-1700-1729_item1/P58.html Thanks for any help you can give. Erica Botelho -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
