Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: An ancestor in question

[Cheri Mello]

Liz M
Go to Tombo.pt/en and find your freguesia. If the CCA has them, they
scanned them.
Here's what's available for Ribeira Seca on Sao Jorge:

[image: Inline image 1]

I don't know how many candy canes, sugar plums, or fruit cakes Jeremy has
been eating!

We need to call the confession rolls just that. And if people don't know
what they are, we define it. That's what this list is for - to educate
people. Please don't mislead lead them or make them think they can get
access to things that are inaccessible.

Just got to Tombo and and find your freguesia. If the confessional rolls
were scanned by the CCA they will be listed under Rois/Confessal (spelling).
Cheri

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Elizabeth Migliori 
wrote:

> Hi
> So are there confession rolls for Faial and Pico and All of Sao Miguel?
> like Cabouco, Lagoa?
>
> Liz
>
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>
>> Guys, please call these things by the proper name. They are NOT censuses.
>> Censuses are for enumeration of a population, usually done by a goverment
>> entity. Censuses don't exist for the Azores. These are confession rolls 
>> (rólos
>> de confissão or róis/confessado). The priest went from house to house
>> making sure everyone everyone had done confession and received communion (I
>> think). He listed their names, beginning with the head of the household
>> (usually the man), then the wife, then the kids. He lists their ages.
>> Because it happens to list households, it can function like a census for
>> our use, but it is NOT a census. It's a confession roll, used by the
>> Catholic church, not a census mandated by the government.
>>
>> I don't want new researchers thinking there's censuses out there for the
>> Azores. There's not.
>>
>> And because confession rolls are NOT consider vital records (birth,
>> marriage, death) not many were collected. Graciosa had the most. I think a
>> couple of freguesias on Terceira. And I guess this freguesia on Sao Jorge.
>> So most freguesia do NOT have them online.
>>
>> To see what the CCA holds, you can go to Tombo.pt/en, type in your
>> freguesia, and click on it. It will tell you what is held by the CCA.
>> [image: Inline image 1]
>> Santa Cruz on Graciosa has baptisms, marriages, deaths, acknowledgements
>> (claiming parentage of the baby) and confession rolls.
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 9:26 AM, LouieLouieOhOh > > wrote:
>>
>>> Jeremy,
>>> Thank you so much! I could send you lots of relatives from Ribeira Seca
>>> but ... can you check these? I would like to know if their siblings are
>>> listed in the Census of 1875 and 1900. As seen below they were married in
>>> 1870.
>>>
>>> Estevao José Mattos
>>> B-10/10/1832
>>> D-3/3/1902
>>> M- May 9 1870
>>> St. Jorge, Ribeira Seca
>>>
>>>
>>> Maria Inês Azevedo Coração Jesus
>>> B-3/13/1850
>>> Louie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 8:43:51 AM UTC-8, Jeremy G. B-C -
>>> Researching: Sao Jorge & Pico wrote:

 Louie,
>>
>
 Attached to this post you will find the 1875 and 1900 census sheets for
 your great grandfather in case you did not have them.   Note: Jose de Sousa
 Borba is not listed in 1875 or 1900 in Ribeira Seca.  If you didn't have
 the attached, I can look up more names for you

 Jeremy

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>>
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>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Azores female literacy in 1900?

[linda]

Thanks! :D

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 12:11:47 PM UTC-8, Mara wrote:
>
> Thank you, Linda. 
>
> It is information like this that is important to fairly substantiate the 
> progress or lack of it in any culture. If thus represented in one or two 
> islands, it can also be used as the yardstick for the rest of the islands.
>
> Well done!
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Ponta Delgada passports

[Cheri Mello]

Prior to 1895 would be 1894 or before. The port of Ponta Delgada on Sao
Miguel island has missing book(s) from 1883-1894. It sounds as if he may be
in the missing book(s).

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 12:55 PM, pjm47  wrote:

> He got married in Fall River Ma in 1895 i have the marriage certificate he
> was born in the Rosario parish in 1873 of St Michaels,i have the baptizmal
> record from there too. He had to have left there prior to 1895
>
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 12:49:55 PM UTC-5, pjm47 wrote:
>
>> I have been trying to find my grandfathers passport from St Michael to
>> the USA and have had no luck. I f any of you are researching there and come
>> accross a Jose da Silva Margarida in the 1800-1895 time frame please keep
>> me in mind. and give me a heads up.
>>
>> Thanks Paul
>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: An ancestor in question

['Jeremy G. B-C' via Azores Genealogy]

Yes, Confessional Rols. Cheri all of the villages on Sao Jorge except Norte 
Pequeno, Santo Antão, and a few in the council of Velas have Rols. It's like 
2/3. Same for Pico.  Unfortunately I only know of 2 on Sao Jorge, and 2 on Pico 
that are available digitally - none of those for are available for everyone to 
see on the CCA however.  There is a university in mainland Portugal that has 
the rest.  The professor who created Minho CITCEM has an inventory of all the 
towns whose rols survive and where they are housed.  There are something like 
32 rols for Sao Jorge alone (I.e. Ribeira Seca and Velas start in 1757 some 
others might too, and go on up). The university has a monopoly of these 
rols-for the central island group at least, but it's a shame that they aren't 
publicly researchable a real shame.

Jeremy  

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: An ancestor in question

[Elizabeth Migliori]

Hi
So are there confession rolls for Faial and Pico and All of Sao Miguel?
like Cabouco, Lagoa?

Liz

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Guys, please call these things by the proper name. They are NOT censuses.
> Censuses are for enumeration of a population, usually done by a goverment
> entity. Censuses don't exist for the Azores. These are confession rolls (rólos
> de confissão or róis/confessado). The priest went from house to house
> making sure everyone everyone had done confession and received communion (I
> think). He listed their names, beginning with the head of the household
> (usually the man), then the wife, then the kids. He lists their ages.
> Because it happens to list households, it can function like a census for
> our use, but it is NOT a census. It's a confession roll, used by the
> Catholic church, not a census mandated by the government.
>
> I don't want new researchers thinking there's censuses out there for the
> Azores. There's not.
>
> And because confession rolls are NOT consider vital records (birth,
> marriage, death) not many were collected. Graciosa had the most. I think a
> couple of freguesias on Terceira. And I guess this freguesia on Sao Jorge.
> So most freguesia do NOT have them online.
>
> To see what the CCA holds, you can go to Tombo.pt/en, type in your
> freguesia, and click on it. It will tell you what is held by the CCA.
> [image: Inline image 1]
> Santa Cruz on Graciosa has baptisms, marriages, deaths, acknowledgements
> (claiming parentage of the baby) and confession rolls.
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 9:26 AM, LouieLouieOhOh 
> wrote:
>
>> Jeremy,
>> Thank you so much! I could send you lots of relatives from Ribeira Seca
>> but ... can you check these? I would like to know if their siblings are
>> listed in the Census of 1875 and 1900. As seen below they were married in
>> 1870.
>>
>> Estevao José Mattos
>> B-10/10/1832
>> D-3/3/1902
>> M- May 9 1870
>> St. Jorge, Ribeira Seca
>>
>>
>> Maria Inês Azevedo Coração Jesus
>> B-3/13/1850
>> Louie
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 8:43:51 AM UTC-8, Jeremy G. B-C -
>> Researching: Sao Jorge & Pico wrote:
>>>
>>> Louie,
>

>>> Attached to this post you will find the 1875 and 1900 census sheets for
>>> your great grandfather in case you did not have them.   Note: Jose de Sousa
>>> Borba is not listed in 1875 or 1900 in Ribeira Seca.  If you didn't have
>>> the attached, I can look up more names for you
>>>
>>> Jeremy
>>>
>> --
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>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: An ancestor in question

['Jeremy G. B-C' via Azores Genealogy]

Yes, yes, the Rols. It's easier to say cencus because some people don't know 
what they are.  
Marcio, are you saying that there is a 1910 cencus for the azores? Any idea as 
to where I can access it?

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 1:30 PM, 'Marcio' via Azores 
Genealogy wrote:   But weren't the confession Rolls 
that preceded the Census? Until 1910 was a monarchy, after 1910 republic. Until 
1910 Confessiom Rolls, after 1910 Census. No?

Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 13, 2016, at 12:48 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:


Guys, please call these things by the proper name. They are NOT censuses. 
Censuses are for enumeration of a population, usually done by a goverment 
entity. Censuses don't exist for the Azores. These are confession rolls (rólos 
de confissão or róis/confessado). The priest went from house to house making 
sure everyone everyone had done confession and received communion (I think). He 
listed their names, beginning with the head of the household (usually the man), 
then the wife, then the kids. He lists their ages. Because it happens to list 
households, it can function like a census for our use, but it is NOT a census. 
It's a confession roll, used by the Catholic church, not a census mandated by 
the government. 

I don't want new researchers thinking there's censuses out there for the 
Azores. There's not.

And because confession rolls are NOT consider vital records (birth, marriage, 
death) not many were collected. Graciosa had the most. I think a couple of 
freguesias on Terceira. And I guess this freguesia on Sao Jorge. So most 
freguesia do NOT have them online.

To see what the CCA holds, you can go to Tombo.pt/en, type in your freguesia, 
and click on it. It will tell you what is held by the CCA.

Santa Cruz on Graciosa has baptisms, marriages, deaths, acknowledgements 
(claiming parentage of the baby) and confession rolls.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 9:26 AM, LouieLouieOhOh  
wrote:

Jeremy,Thank you so much! I could send you lots of relatives from Ribeira Seca 
but ... can you check these? I would like to know if their siblings are listed 
in the Census of 1875 and 1900. As seen below they were married in 1870.

| Estevao José Mattos |
| B-10/10/1832 |
| D-3/3/1902 |
| M- May 9 1870 |
| St. Jorge, Ribeira Seca |
|   |
| 
 |
| Maria Inês Azevedo Coração Jesus |
| B-3/13/1850 |
|  |
|  |

Louie


On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 8:43:51 AM UTC-8, Jeremy G. B-C - Researching: 
Sao Jorge & Pico wrote:


Louie,


Attached to this post you will find the 1875 and 1900 census sheets for your 
great grandfather in case you did not have them.   Note: Jose de Sousa Borba is 
not listed in 1875 or 1900 in Ribeira Seca.  If you didn't have the attached, I 
can look up more names for you
Jeremy


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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Ponta Delgada passports

[pjm47]

He got married in Fall River Ma in 1895 i have the marriage certificate he 
was born in the Rosario parish in 1873 of St Michaels,i have the baptizmal 
record from there too. He had to have left there prior to 1895

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 12:49:55 PM UTC-5, pjm47 wrote:
>
> I have been trying to find my grandfathers passport from St Michael to the 
> USA and have had no luck. I f any of you are researching there and come 
> accross a Jose da Silva Margarida in the 1800-1895 time frame please keep 
> me in mind. and give me a heads up. 
>
> Thanks Paul 
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: An ancestor in question

[Cheri Mello]

Don't know. Unfortunately, the online stuff goes only to 1910 or 1911 or
so. It my understanding that no effort is going to be made to put post
1910/1911 stuff online.
Cheri

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: An ancestor in question

['Marcio' via Azores Genealogy]

But weren't the confession Rolls that preceded the Census? Until 1910 was a 
monarchy, after 1910 republic. Until 1910 Confessiom Rolls, after 1910 Census. 
No?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 13, 2016, at 12:48 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
> 
> Guys, please call these things by the proper name. They are NOT censuses. 
> Censuses are for enumeration of a population, usually done by a goverment 
> entity. Censuses don't exist for the Azores. These are confession rolls 
> (rólos de confissão or róis/confessado). The priest went from house to house 
> making sure everyone everyone had done confession and received communion (I 
> think). He listed their names, beginning with the head of the household 
> (usually the man), then the wife, then the kids. He lists their ages. Because 
> it happens to list households, it can function like a census for our use, but 
> it is NOT a census. It's a confession roll, used by the Catholic church, not 
> a census mandated by the government. 
> 
> I don't want new researchers thinking there's censuses out there for the 
> Azores. There's not.
> 
> And because confession rolls are NOT consider vital records (birth, marriage, 
> death) not many were collected. Graciosa had the most. I think a couple of 
> freguesias on Terceira. And I guess this freguesia on Sao Jorge. So most 
> freguesia do NOT have them online.
> 
> To see what the CCA holds, you can go to Tombo.pt/en, type in your freguesia, 
> and click on it. It will tell you what is held by the CCA.
> 
> Santa Cruz on Graciosa has baptisms, marriages, deaths, acknowledgements 
> (claiming parentage of the baby) and confession rolls.
> 
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
> 
>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 9:26 AM, LouieLouieOhOh  
>> wrote:
>> Jeremy,
>> Thank you so much! I could send you lots of relatives from Ribeira Seca but 
>> ... can you check these? I would like to know if their siblings are listed 
>> in the Census of 1875 and 1900. As seen below they were married in 1870.
>> 
>> Estevao José Mattos
>> B-10/10/1832
>> D-3/3/1902
>> M- May 9 1870
>> St. Jorge, Ribeira Seca
>>  
>> 
>> Maria Inês Azevedo Coração Jesus
>> B-3/13/1850
>> Louie
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 8:43:51 AM UTC-8, Jeremy G. B-C - 
>> Researching: Sao Jorge & Pico wrote:
>>> 
> Louie,
>>> 
>>> Attached to this post you will find the 1875 and 1900 census sheets for 
>>> your great grandfather in case you did not have them.   Note: Jose de Sousa 
>>> Borba is not listed in 1875 or 1900 in Ribeira Seca.  If you didn't have 
>>> the attached, I can look up more names for you
>>> 
>>> Jeremy
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
> 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Ponta Delgada passports

[Cheri Mello]

The port of Ponta Delgada has missing book(s) between 1883-1894 :(

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Richard Francis Pimentel <
rickredle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> *Paul,*
>
> *Could you give us more information. Have you an estimated time frame when
> your grandfather came to the U.S. I would suggest checking the US Census
> from 1900 through 1920 give the year of immigration to the us. If your
> ancestor came through Ellis Island their website can be searched. Once you
> narrow down the date/year you can go back to The Passport records and
> search. Are you sure your grandfather came from Sao Miguel?*
>
>
>
> *Rick*
>
>
>
> *Richard Francis Pimentel*
>
> *Epping, NH*
>
> *Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and
> Ponta Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *pjm47
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 13, 2016 12:43 PM
> *To:* Azores Genealogy
> *Subject:* [AZORES-Genealogy] Ponta Delgada passports
>
>
>
> I have been trying to find my grandfathers passport from St Michael to the
> USA and have had no luck. I f any of you are researching there and come
> accross a Jose da Silva Margarida in the 1800-1895 time frame please keep
> me in mind. and give me a heads up.
>
>
>
> Thanks Paul
>
> --
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> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: New Movie - The Epic Journey of Portuguese Jesuits of the 17th Century

[Greggo]

Read the book, it was AWESOME!!  "Silence" by Endo...

On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 12:47:58 PM UTC-10, "E" Sharp wrote:
>
> Martin Scorsese premiered this movie at Vatican City and Pope Francis Nov. 
> 29 and it will be released in selected theaters in the U. S. December 23, 
> and nationwide Jan 6. 2017.  It tells the story of 2 Portuguese Jesuit 
> missionaries in 17th century Japan.
>
> My dear, dear, Jesuit friend,Father Martin SCU, deceased, would have loved 
> this movie and I will honor his memory and can't wait to see it.  
>
> "E"
>

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Ponta Delgada passports

[Richard Francis Pimentel]

Paul,

Could you give us more information. Have you an estimated time frame when your 
grandfather came to the U.S. I would suggest checking the US Census from 1900 
through 1920 give the year of immigration to the us. If your ancestor came 
through Ellis Island their website can be searched. Once you narrow down the 
date/year you can go back to The Passport records and search. Are you sure your 
grandfather came from Sao Miguel?

 

Rick

 

Richard Francis Pimentel

Epping, NH

Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and Ponta 
Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
pjm47
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 12:43 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Ponta Delgada passports

 

I have been trying to find my grandfathers passport from St Michael to the USA 
and have had no luck. I f any of you are researching there and come accross a 
Jose da Silva Margarida in the 1800-1895 time frame please keep me in mind. and 
give me a heads up. 

 

Thanks Paul 

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: date needed

[Philippe Garnier]

Hi Liz,

Would they issue a certificate for a marriage or perhaps a passport?

It is possible, Antônio will be 24 years. See the marriage on 1835/1836. 
Perhaps he needed a dispensation to the mariage (consanguinity).
Perhaps too, to be priest ???
Perhaps to his death and to his heirs ???

Best regrads

Philippe Garnier
Paris - France

http://philippegarnier112.wixsite.com/familiasilhaterceira/copie-de-familias-da-ilha-terceira





Le lundi 12 décembre 2016 23:40:49 UTC+1, Lizmig a écrit :
>
> Hello,
>
> Can anyone tell me the date of Birth and Baptism of Anthony upper left 
> side.
> i think it's birth the 13th and bapt. the 17th  but not sure.
> Also what are the notes on the left column  something about 1935?
>
> thx
> Liz
>
>
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CEDROS-B-1804-1813/FAL-HT-CEDROS-B-1804-1813_item1/P79.html
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Ponta Delgada passports

[pjm47]

Sorry but that should have been 1890 to 1895 time frame

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 12:49:55 PM UTC-5, pjm47 wrote:
>
> I have been trying to find my grandfathers passport from St Michael to the 
> USA and have had no luck. I f any of you are researching there and come 
> accross a Jose da Silva Margarida in the 1800-1895 time frame please keep 
> me in mind. and give me a heads up. 
>
> Thanks Paul 
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: An ancestor in question

['Jeremy G. B-C' via Azores Genealogy]

Sure thing!I'll send you them asap.


  

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Azores female literacy in 1900?

[Margaret Vicente]

Thank you, Linda.

It is information like this that is important to fairly substantiate the
progress or lack of it in any culture. If thus represented in one or two
islands, it can also be used as the yardstick for the rest of the islands.

Well done!


On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 12:54 PM linda meneses 
wrote:

> My pleasure, Mary.  I'm glad you thought so!
>
> :) Linda
>
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Mary Bordi  wrote:
>
> Yes, that is very interesting! Thank you for sharing.
>
> Mary
>
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 9:39 PM linda  wrote:
>
> I found the reference I had in mind.
>
> This information is specific to Sao Miguel island for 1863 or 1864.  I
> don't know how much it can be generalized either to the other islands or to
> later in the century, but it does provide a little window on the state of
> education in one place at one point in time.
>
> Source: Supico, Francisco Maria 1864 Almanach do Archipelago dos Acores:
> Estatistico, Historico, Recreativo e Noticioso.  Typographia da Persuasao,
> Ponta Delgada, pages 52-56.
>
> Number of Primary Schools for Boys:
> 20 public schools attended by 1234 students
> 8 municipal schools attended by 428 students
> 14 private schools attended by  538 students
> total = 2,200 students
>
> Number of Primary Schools for Girls:
> 5 public schools attended by 334 students
> 4 municipal schools attended by 308 students
> 63 private schools attended by 1,460 students
> total = 2,102 students
>
> [I believe the difference between public and municipal schools was that
> the first were funded by the Portuguese government and the second, by the
> Camara Municipal.]
>
> Supico notes that included in the attendance numbers of the girls' private
> schools, there are 84 boy students, so the actual total number of boys
> attending primary school is raised to 2,284 and the total number of girls
> is reduced to 2,018.
>
> Relative to the total population of both sexes on the island, the
> proportions of school attendance were therefore established to be:
>
> males, 4.532 per 100 individuals [4.532% of the boys on the island of San
> Miguel attended primary school in 1863 or 1864]
> females, 3.600 per 100 individuals  [3.6% of the girls on the island]
>
> Supico makes the explicit point that "Nenhum districto do continente e
> ilhas apresenta um resultado tao satisfactorio sobre a instruccao do sexo
> feminino." (page 52)  "No district of the Continent or the Islands
> demonstrates such a satisfactory result dealing with the instruction of the
> feminine sex."  In comparison, he notes that Lisbon came closest with
> 2.236% of the girls there attending school, and if all the districts of the
> continent were taken together, only 0.861% of the girls on the mainland
> attended school.
>
> Supico further notes that after the stats were collected, new co-ed public
> free schools were opened by the Municipa Camara of Ponta Delgada, but their
> attendence figures weren't available to be included in his totals.  The
> implication being that education rates were somewhat higher than he could
> statistically demonstrate.
>
> Secondary education:  There were about 200 students enrolled in private
> secondary education.  There was also free secondary education for both male
> and female students available at 4 legally credentialed institutions.
> These "collegios" offered instruction in Portuguese, French, English,
> Latin, "latinidade" [Classics??], drawing, music and dance, and they had
> 130 regularly attending students.  Moreover, there were also almost as many
> students who received instruction from uncredentialed teachers who,
> according to Supico, "weren't much inferior to those of the authorized
> institutions" ["mestres sem habilitacao legal, nao sera muito inferio as
> dos collegios authorisados"].  Additionally, Supico noted that some of the
> teachers give lessons in the students homes, and these students were not
> included in his stats.
>
>
> I hope all this info is of interest to some of you-- I know I find it
> fascinating :).  I think discussing the culture and history of the islands
> can provide some valuable insights into our shared heritage and
> genealogies.  I know in my case, I'm continually trying  to understand my
> family in the context of their original culture and how as immigrants they
> adapted (and often didn't) to the culture of their adopted home in
> California.  I read the anecdotes shared here with interest because of how
> they compare and contrast with the stories handed down in my own family.
> And they help me to remember that my broad assumptions about "life in the
> old country/old days" aren't always accurate.  The education rates in the
> Azores in the 19th century were woefully low compared to what we have come
> to expect, but who would have guessed that in Sao Miguel in 1863 a girl had
> nearly as good a chance of getting a bit of schooling as a boy?  Not me!
> Nor would I 

[AZORES-Genealogy] Ponta Delgada passports

[pjm47]

I have been trying to find my grandfathers passport from St Michael to the 
USA and have had no luck. I f any of you are researching there and come 
accross a Jose da Silva Margarida in the 1800-1895 time frame please keep 
me in mind. and give me a heads up. 

Thanks Paul 

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Azores female literacy in 1900?

[linda meneses]

My pleasure, Mary.  I'm glad you thought so!

:) Linda

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Mary Bordi  wrote:

> Yes, that is very interesting! Thank you for sharing.
>
> Mary
>
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 9:39 PM linda  wrote:
>
>> I found the reference I had in mind.
>>
>> This information is specific to Sao Miguel island for 1863 or 1864.  I
>> don't know how much it can be generalized either to the other islands or to
>> later in the century, but it does provide a little window on the state of
>> education in one place at one point in time.
>>
>> Source: Supico, Francisco Maria 1864 Almanach do Archipelago dos Acores:
>> Estatistico, Historico, Recreativo e Noticioso.  Typographia da Persuasao,
>> Ponta Delgada, pages 52-56.
>>
>> Number of Primary Schools for Boys:
>> 20 public schools attended by 1234 students
>> 8 municipal schools attended by 428 students
>> 14 private schools attended by  538 students
>> total = 2,200 students
>>
>> Number of Primary Schools for Girls:
>> 5 public schools attended by 334 students
>> 4 municipal schools attended by 308 students
>> 63 private schools attended by 1,460 students
>> total = 2,102 students
>>
>> [I believe the difference between public and municipal schools was that
>> the first were funded by the Portuguese government and the second, by the
>> Camara Municipal.]
>>
>> Supico notes that included in the attendance numbers of the girls'
>> private schools, there are 84 boy students, so the actual total number of
>> boys attending primary school is raised to 2,284 and the total number of
>> girls is reduced to 2,018.
>>
>> Relative to the total population of both sexes on the island, the
>> proportions of school attendance were therefore established to be:
>>
>> males, 4.532 per 100 individuals [4.532% of the boys on the island of San
>> Miguel attended primary school in 1863 or 1864]
>> females, 3.600 per 100 individuals  [3.6% of the girls on the island]
>>
>> Supico makes the explicit point that "Nenhum districto do continente e
>> ilhas apresenta um resultado tao satisfactorio sobre a instruccao do sexo
>> feminino." (page 52)  "No district of the Continent or the Islands
>> demonstrates such a satisfactory result dealing with the instruction of the
>> feminine sex."  In comparison, he notes that Lisbon came closest with
>> 2.236% of the girls there attending school, and if all the districts of the
>> continent were taken together, only 0.861% of the girls on the mainland
>> attended school.
>>
>> Supico further notes that after the stats were collected, new co-ed
>> public free schools were opened by the Municipa Camara of Ponta Delgada,
>> but their attendence figures weren't available to be included in his
>> totals.  The implication being that education rates were somewhat higher
>> than he could statistically demonstrate.
>>
>> Secondary education:  There were about 200 students enrolled in private
>> secondary education.  There was also free secondary education for both male
>> and female students available at 4 legally credentialed institutions.
>> These "collegios" offered instruction in Portuguese, French, English,
>> Latin, "latinidade" [Classics??], drawing, music and dance, and they had
>> 130 regularly attending students.  Moreover, there were also almost as many
>> students who received instruction from uncredentialed teachers who,
>> according to Supico, "weren't much inferior to those of the authorized
>> institutions" ["mestres sem habilitacao legal, nao sera muito inferio as
>> dos collegios authorisados"].  Additionally, Supico noted that some of the
>> teachers give lessons in the students homes, and these students were not
>> included in his stats.
>>
>>
>> I hope all this info is of interest to some of you-- I know I find it
>> fascinating :).  I think discussing the culture and history of the islands
>> can provide some valuable insights into our shared heritage and
>> genealogies.  I know in my case, I'm continually trying  to understand my
>> family in the context of their original culture and how as immigrants they
>> adapted (and often didn't) to the culture of their adopted home in
>> California.  I read the anecdotes shared here with interest because of how
>> they compare and contrast with the stories handed down in my own family.
>> And they help me to remember that my broad assumptions about "life in the
>> old country/old days" aren't always accurate.  The education rates in the
>> Azores in the 19th century were woefully low compared to what we have come
>> to expect, but who would have guessed that in Sao Miguel in 1863 a girl had
>> nearly as good a chance of getting a bit of schooling as a boy?  Not me!
>> Nor would I have ever thought that an Azorean island had a better record of
>> sending girls to school than anywhere on the continent!   Or
>> that--apparently--girls' schooling was important enough to some
>> [wealthier?] families to support about three times as many 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: An ancestor in question

[Cheri Mello]

Guys, please call these things by the proper name. They are NOT censuses.
Censuses are for enumeration of a population, usually done by a goverment
entity. Censuses don't exist for the Azores. These are confession rolls (rólos
de confissão or róis/confessado). The priest went from house to house
making sure everyone everyone had done confession and received communion (I
think). He listed their names, beginning with the head of the household
(usually the man), then the wife, then the kids. He lists their ages.
Because it happens to list households, it can function like a census for
our use, but it is NOT a census. It's a confession roll, used by the
Catholic church, not a census mandated by the government.

I don't want new researchers thinking there's censuses out there for the
Azores. There's not.

And because confession rolls are NOT consider vital records (birth,
marriage, death) not many were collected. Graciosa had the most. I think a
couple of freguesias on Terceira. And I guess this freguesia on Sao Jorge.
So most freguesia do NOT have them online.

To see what the CCA holds, you can go to Tombo.pt/en, type in your
freguesia, and click on it. It will tell you what is held by the CCA.
[image: Inline image 1]
Santa Cruz on Graciosa has baptisms, marriages, deaths, acknowledgements
(claiming parentage of the baby) and confession rolls.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 9:26 AM, LouieLouieOhOh 
wrote:

> Jeremy,
> Thank you so much! I could send you lots of relatives from Ribeira Seca
> but ... can you check these? I would like to know if their siblings are
> listed in the Census of 1875 and 1900. As seen below they were married in
> 1870.
>
> Estevao José Mattos
> B-10/10/1832
> D-3/3/1902
> M- May 9 1870
> St. Jorge, Ribeira Seca
>
>
> Maria Inês Azevedo Coração Jesus
> B-3/13/1850
> Louie
>
>
>
> On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 8:43:51 AM UTC-8, Jeremy G. B-C -
> Researching: Sao Jorge & Pico wrote:
>>
>> Louie,

>>>
>> Attached to this post you will find the 1875 and 1900 census sheets for
>> your great grandfather in case you did not have them.   Note: Jose de Sousa
>> Borba is not listed in 1875 or 1900 in Ribeira Seca.  If you didn't have
>> the attached, I can look up more names for you
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: An ancestor in question

[LouieLouieOhOh]

Jeremy,
Thank you so much! I could send you lots of relatives from Ribeira Seca but 
... can you check these? I would like to know if their siblings are listed 
in the Census of 1875 and 1900. As seen below they were married in 1870.

Estevao José Mattos 
B-10/10/1832 
D-3/3/1902 
M- May 9 1870 
St. Jorge, Ribeira Seca 
  

Maria Inês Azevedo Coração Jesus 
B-3/13/1850 
Louie


On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 8:43:51 AM UTC-8, Jeremy G. B-C - 
Researching: Sao Jorge & Pico wrote:
>
> Louie,
>>>
>>
> Attached to this post you will find the 1875 and 1900 census sheets for 
> your great grandfather in case you did not have them.   Note: Jose de Sousa 
> Borba is not listed in 1875 or 1900 in Ribeira Seca.  If you didn't have 
> the attached, I can look up more names for you
>
> Jeremy
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: date needed

[Cheri Mello]

Either. Or anything they needed the document for (to prove age).

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 1:37 AM, Liz Migliori  wrote:

> Thank you
> Would they issue a certificate for a marriage or perhaps a passport?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 12, 2016, at 7:09 PM, Philippe Garnier <
> philippegarnier...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Liz,
>
> Yes it is 13 and 17 march.
>
> Philippe Garnier
> Paris - France
>
> http://philippegarnier112.wixsite.com/familiasilhaterceira/copie-de-
> familias-da-ilha-terceira
>
>
> Le lundi 12 décembre 2016 23:40:49 UTC+1, Lizmig a écrit :
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Can anyone tell me the date of Birth and Baptism of Anthony upper left
>> side.
>> i think it's birth the 13th and bapt. the 17th  but not sure.
>> Also what are the notes on the left column  something about 1935?
>>
>> thx
>> Liz
>>
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-
>> CEDROS-B-1804-1813/FAL-HT-CEDROS-B-1804-1813_item1/P79.html
>>
> --
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>
> --
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: date needed

[Liz Migliori]

Thank you
Would they issue a certificate for a marriage or perhaps a passport?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 12, 2016, at 7:09 PM, Philippe Garnier  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Liz,
> 
> Yes it is 13 and 17 march.
> 
> Philippe Garnier
> Paris - France
> http://philippegarnier112.wixsite.com/familiasilhaterceira/copie-de-familias-da-ilha-terceira
> 
> 
> 
> Le lundi 12 décembre 2016 23:40:49 UTC+1, Lizmig a écrit :
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Can anyone tell me the date of Birth and Baptism of Anthony upper left side.
>> i think it's birth the 13th and bapt. the 17th  but not sure.
>> Also what are the notes on the left column  something about 1935?
>> 
>> thx
>> Liz
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CEDROS-B-1804-1813/FAL-HT-CEDROS-B-1804-1813_item1/P79.html
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Azores female literacy in 1900?

[Mary Bordi]

Yes, that is very interesting! Thank you for sharing.

Mary

On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 9:39 PM linda  wrote:

> I found the reference I had in mind.
>
> This information is specific to Sao Miguel island for 1863 or 1864.  I
> don't know how much it can be generalized either to the other islands or to
> later in the century, but it does provide a little window on the state of
> education in one place at one point in time.
>
> Source: Supico, Francisco Maria 1864 Almanach do Archipelago dos Acores:
> Estatistico, Historico, Recreativo e Noticioso.  Typographia da Persuasao,
> Ponta Delgada, pages 52-56.
>
> Number of Primary Schools for Boys:
> 20 public schools attended by 1234 students
> 8 municipal schools attended by 428 students
> 14 private schools attended by  538 students
> total = 2,200 students
>
> Number of Primary Schools for Girls:
> 5 public schools attended by 334 students
> 4 municipal schools attended by 308 students
> 63 private schools attended by 1,460 students
> total = 2,102 students
>
> [I believe the difference between public and municipal schools was that
> the first were funded by the Portuguese government and the second, by the
> Camara Municipal.]
>
> Supico notes that included in the attendance numbers of the girls' private
> schools, there are 84 boy students, so the actual total number of boys
> attending primary school is raised to 2,284 and the total number of girls
> is reduced to 2,018.
>
> Relative to the total population of both sexes on the island, the
> proportions of school attendance were therefore established to be:
>
> males, 4.532 per 100 individuals [4.532% of the boys on the island of San
> Miguel attended primary school in 1863 or 1864]
> females, 3.600 per 100 individuals  [3.6% of the girls on the island]
>
> Supico makes the explicit point that "Nenhum districto do continente e
> ilhas apresenta um resultado tao satisfactorio sobre a instruccao do sexo
> feminino." (page 52)  "No district of the Continent or the Islands
> demonstrates such a satisfactory result dealing with the instruction of the
> feminine sex."  In comparison, he notes that Lisbon came closest with
> 2.236% of the girls there attending school, and if all the districts of the
> continent were taken together, only 0.861% of the girls on the mainland
> attended school.
>
> Supico further notes that after the stats were collected, new co-ed public
> free schools were opened by the Municipa Camara of Ponta Delgada, but their
> attendence figures weren't available to be included in his totals.  The
> implication being that education rates were somewhat higher than he could
> statistically demonstrate.
>
> Secondary education:  There were about 200 students enrolled in private
> secondary education.  There was also free secondary education for both male
> and female students available at 4 legally credentialed institutions.
> These "collegios" offered instruction in Portuguese, French, English,
> Latin, "latinidade" [Classics??], drawing, music and dance, and they had
> 130 regularly attending students.  Moreover, there were also almost as many
> students who received instruction from uncredentialed teachers who,
> according to Supico, "weren't much inferior to those of the authorized
> institutions" ["mestres sem habilitacao legal, nao sera muito inferio as
> dos collegios authorisados"].  Additionally, Supico noted that some of the
> teachers give lessons in the students homes, and these students were not
> included in his stats.
>
>
> I hope all this info is of interest to some of you-- I know I find it
> fascinating :).  I think discussing the culture and history of the islands
> can provide some valuable insights into our shared heritage and
> genealogies.  I know in my case, I'm continually trying  to understand my
> family in the context of their original culture and how as immigrants they
> adapted (and often didn't) to the culture of their adopted home in
> California.  I read the anecdotes shared here with interest because of how
> they compare and contrast with the stories handed down in my own family.
> And they help me to remember that my broad assumptions about "life in the
> old country/old days" aren't always accurate.  The education rates in the
> Azores in the 19th century were woefully low compared to what we have come
> to expect, but who would have guessed that in Sao Miguel in 1863 a girl had
> nearly as good a chance of getting a bit of schooling as a boy?  Not me!
> Nor would I have ever thought that an Azorean island had a better record of
> sending girls to school than anywhere on the continent!   Or
> that--apparently--girls' schooling was important enough to some
> [wealthier?] families to support about three times as many girls' private
> schools as there were boys' public schools and this was how most of the
> girls were educated... just fascinating...
>
> Anyway, as they say, "thank a school teacher if you can read this"--and
> thanks to Cheri