Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sidenote, Sao Pedro, Santa Maria

[JesseAndDeborah Mendonca]

I just have to pipe up and say the Cheri would call her Maria da scribble
scrabble.  She makes this journey so human and fun.   Thank you, Cheri!

Debbie




On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 6:49 PM 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1880-1889/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1880-1889_item1/P166.html
>
>
>
> Bottom right.  This is what I see on the side note:  Maria da ??  married
> Manoel de Moura.  He’s from Nossa Senhora d’Assumpcao, Sao Pedro.
>
> They married on 27 March 1911.  Maria died on 16 February  1960.
>
>
>
> If someone with better knowledge and eye sight could take a look, it would
> be much appreciated.
>
> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>
>
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)

[JesseAndDeborah Mendonca]

Angela, I had to get that translated.  :)

“A second name of devotion may be regarded as a nickname if it came from
previous generations and / or was repeatedly used in the same family in
subsequent generations. However, these second proper names of devotion
often were not nicknames and, especially in the case of women, were even
the most often abandoned or exchanged throughout life. Hence a hypothetical
Maria, daughter of Miguel Lobo and Ana of the Rosary, to be able to appear
in its marriage like Maria of the Sacrament and without any nickname; in
his death as Maria Loba; and at the baptism of a grandson - when she was
already deceased - like Maria do Rosário. If there are documentary gaps,
these changes make us doubt that we are before the same individual. "
- QUEIROZ, Francisco, MOSCATEL, Cristina, «DISCOVER THEIR ORIGINS -
Genealogy and Family History Manual», 2016, Sphere of Books, page 207.




On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 6:03 PM Ângela Loura  wrote:

> « Um segundo nome de devoção podemos considerá-lo como apelido se este
> provinha das gerações anteriores e/ou foi repetidamente usado na mesma
> família em gerações seguintes. Porém, estes segundos nomes próprios de
> devoção muitas vezes não constituíam apelidos e, *sobretudo no caso das
> mulheres, até eram dos que mais vezes se abandonavam ou trocavam, ao longo
> da vida. Daí uma hipotética Maria, filha de Miguel Lobo e de Ana do
> Rosário, poder surgir no seu casamento como Maria do Sacramento e sem
> qualquer apelido; no seu óbito como Maria Loba; e no baptismo de um neto -
> quando ela já era falecida - como Maria do Rosário.* Caso haja lacunas
> documentais, estas alterações fazem mesmo duvidar que estejamos perante o
> mesmo indivíduo.»
> - QUEIROZ, Francisco, MOSCATEL, Cristina, «DESCUBRA AS SUAS ORIGENS -
> Manual de Genealogia e História da Família», 2016, Esfera dos Livros,
> página 207.
>
> This book has been my Genealogy Bible for the last 3 years, and a true
> life saver when it comes to overcome brickwalls in my researches.
>
> Ângela Loura  escreveu no dia quarta, 20/03/2019
> à(s) 14:36:
>
>> I don't think the main name of the person (female) changes. The only
>> changes I found so far is in the religious name (usually the second name
>> added to the main name). For example, Maria das Dores turning into Maria da
>> Assunção. I don't know why they would change it, but since it usually
>> didn't even appear in the baptism record (only Maria), maybe there's
>> (option 1:) no real meaning/importance given to the name - the worst
>> religious names I've seen so far are the ones given to expostos without a
>> previous name -, or (option 2:) there was a more complex importance we
>> still haven't figured out.
>> I will check the "Descubra as suas origens" manual when I get home to see
>> if the authors refer anything about this.
>>
>> A quarta, 20 de mar de 2019, 14:26, nancy jean baptiste <
>> fishsongf...@hotmail.com> escreveu:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> In some ways the same names is helpful to link to families. The Sao
>>> Jorge index makes it so easy to skim for "Silveira de Lemos" or variation
>>> thereof and  "de Jesus" women or in my mom's line "Bernarda"..but, in
>>> other cases it's horribly confusingie: my great grand father from
>>> Candelaria took the surname Cardoso while his brother took Silva...why?
>>> Who know's?
>>>
>>> Enjoy the puzzle!
>>> Nancy Jean
>>> --
>>> *From:* azores@googlegroups.com  on behalf of
>>> Leonor Bertoni 
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 19, 2019 10:00 PM
>>> *To:* Azores Genealogy
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)
>>>
>>> Sam, what I have been finding a lot of is sons taking on their father's
>>> first name as their last name. For example Nicolau do Rego's son will be
>>> João do Rego Nicolau.
>>>
>>> On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 21:58, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
>>> azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Rick.  I get it now.  All these same names are driving me nutso.
>>> Add to that the marrying of cousins and it sure does get crazy!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Richard Francis Pimentel 
>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 19, 2019 5:32 PM
>>> *To: *azores@googlegroups.com
>>> *Subject: *RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Not exactly.  If the Bride was Maria and the MIL was Francisca Rosa.
>>> The bride might take the name Maria Rosa or Maria Francisca. I cannot
>>> recall if I have seen the bride change her baptismal name.  *
>>>
>>> *Rick*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 19, 2019 6:32 PM
>>> *To:* azores@googlegroups.com
>>> *Subject:* RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rick; Do you mean that a bride of one name say, Ana Francisca would
>>> marry and change her name to her mother-in-laws say Jacintha Maria?  Talk
>>> about making our job of tracing our ancestors harder!  Not to mention, talk
>>> 

RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sidenote, Sao Pedro, Santa Maria

['Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy]

Thanks Bill!  Appreciate the help!

Sam (Mazatlán, MX)

From: bsei2...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 7:06 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sidenote, Sao Pedro, Santa Maria

Hi Sam.

Maria do Espirito Santo.  Manuel de Moura is natural of Assumção and they 
married in São Pedro (Assumção and São Pedro are two different parishes).  You 
have the rest correct.\

Bill Seidler

On Thursday, March 21, 2019 at 6:49:43 PM UTC-7, Sam Koester wrote:
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1880-1889/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1880-1889_item1/P166.html
 
Bottom right.  This is what I see on the side note:  Maria da ??  married 
Manoel de Moura.  He’s from Nossa Senhora d’Assumpcao, Sao Pedro.
They married on 27 March 1911.  Maria died on 16 February  1960.
 
If someone with better knowledge and eye sight could take a look, it would be 
much appreciated.
Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
 


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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sidenote, Sao Pedro, Santa Maria

[Ângela Loura]

Maria do Espirito Sancto

'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy  escreveu
no dia sexta, 22/03/2019 à(s) 01:49:

>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1880-1889/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1880-1889_item1/P166.html
>
>
>
> Bottom right.  This is what I see on the side note:  Maria da ??  married
> Manoel de Moura.  He’s from Nossa Senhora d’Assumpcao, Sao Pedro.
>
> They married on 27 March 1911.  Maria died on 16 February  1960.
>
>
>
> If someone with better knowledge and eye sight could take a look, it would
> be much appreciated.
>
> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>
>
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_-1699370079630651627_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sidenote, Sao Pedro, Santa Maria

['Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy]

Thanks Leonor.  Really appreciate the help!

Sam (Mazatlán, MX)

From: leonor.bert...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 7:03 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sidenote, Sao Pedro, Santa Maria

Hi Sam,
It says Maria do Espirito Santo. The rest of what you have, I believe is 
correct.



On Thursday, 21 March 2019 21:49:43 UTC-4, Sam Koester wrote:
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1880-1889/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1880-1889_item1/P166.html
 
Bottom right.  This is what I see on the side note:  Maria da ??  married 
Manoel de Moura.  He’s from Nossa Senhora d’Assumpcao, Sao Pedro.
They married on 27 March 1911.  Maria died on 16 February  1960.
 
If someone with better knowledge and eye sight could take a look, it would be 
much appreciated.
Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
 


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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sidenote, Sao Pedro, Santa Maria

[bsei2816]

Hi Sam.

Maria do Espirito Santo.  Manuel de Moura is natural of Assumção and they 
married in São Pedro (Assumção and São Pedro are two different parishes).  
You have the rest correct.\

Bill Seidler

On Thursday, March 21, 2019 at 6:49:43 PM UTC-7, Sam Koester wrote:
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1880-1889/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1880-1889_item1/P166.html
>
>  
>
> Bottom right.  This is what I see on the side note:  Maria da ??  married 
> Manoel de Moura.  He’s from Nossa Senhora d’Assumpcao, Sao Pedro.
>
> They married on 27 March 1911.  Maria died on 16 February  1960.
>
>  
>
> If someone with better knowledge and eye sight could take a look, it would 
> be much appreciated.
>
> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>
>  
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free. 
> www.avast.com 
> 
>  
> <#5c943f35.1c69fb81.242a8.2a3aSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@gmr-mx.google.com_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sidenote, Sao Pedro, Santa Maria

[leonor . bertoni]

Hi Sam,
It says Maria do Espirito Santo. The rest of what you have, I believe is 
correct.



On Thursday, 21 March 2019 21:49:43 UTC-4, Sam Koester wrote:
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1880-1889/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1880-1889_item1/P166.html
>
>  
>
> Bottom right.  This is what I see on the side note:  Maria da ??  married 
> Manoel de Moura.  He’s from Nossa Senhora d’Assumpcao, Sao Pedro.
>
> They married on 27 March 1911.  Maria died on 16 February  1960.
>
>  
>
> If someone with better knowledge and eye sight could take a look, it would 
> be much appreciated.
>
> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>
>  
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free. 
> www.avast.com 
> 
>  
> <#5c943f35.1c69fb81.242a8.2a3aSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@gmr-mx.google.com_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)

[JR]

I have seen a few. My ancestor was baptised Bernardina and upon Quaresma, 
her name was changed to Claudina. It drove me nuts until I found her 
baptism, where priest stated on margin she changed her name to Claudina. I 
have seen perhaps three or four. Marianna and Maria Anna sometimes causes 
confusion. 

JR

On Wednesday, March 20, 2019 at 2:19:45 PM UTC-4, Ângela Loura wrote:
>
> I don't think the main name of the person (female) changes. The only 
> changes I found so far is in the religious name (usually the second name 
> added to the main name). For example, Maria das Dores turning into Maria da 
> Assunção. I don't know why they would change it, but since it usually 
> didn't even appear in the baptism record (only Maria), maybe there's 
> (option 1:) no real meaning/importance given to the name - the worst 
> religious names I've seen so far are the ones given to expostos without a 
> previous name -, or (option 2:) there was a more complex importance we 
> still haven't figured out.
> I will check the "Descubra as suas origens" manual when I get home to see 
> if the authors refer anything about this. 
>
> A quarta, 20 de mar de 2019, 14:26, nancy jean baptiste <
> fishso...@hotmail.com > escreveu:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> In some ways the same names is helpful to link to families. The Sao Jorge 
>> index makes it so easy to skim for "Silveira de Lemos" or variation thereof 
>> and  "de Jesus" women or in my mom's line "Bernarda"..but, in other 
>> cases it's horribly confusingie: my great grand father from Candelaria 
>> took the surname Cardoso while his brother took Silva...why? Who know's?
>>
>> Enjoy the puzzle!
>> Nancy Jean
>> --
>> *From:* azo...@googlegroups.com  > > on behalf of Leonor Bertoni > >
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 19, 2019 10:00 PM
>> *To:* Azores Genealogy
>> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria) 
>>  
>> Sam, what I have been finding a lot of is sons taking on their father's 
>> first name as their last name. For example Nicolau do Rego's son will be 
>> João do Rego Nicolau. 
>>
>> On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 21:58, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
>> azo...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Rick.  I get it now.  All these same names are driving me nutso.  
>> Add to that the marrying of cousins and it sure does get crazy!
>>
>>  
>>
>> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From: *Richard Francis Pimentel 
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 19, 2019 5:32 PM
>> *To: *azo...@googlegroups.com 
>> *Subject: *RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Not exactly.  If the Bride was Maria and the MIL was Francisca Rosa. The 
>> bride might take the name Maria Rosa or Maria Francisca. I cannot recall if 
>> I have seen the bride change her baptismal name.  *
>>
>> *Rick*
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy > > 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 19, 2019 6:32 PM
>> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com 
>> *Subject:* RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)
>>
>>  
>>
>> Rick; Do you mean that a bride of one name say, Ana Francisca would 
>> marry and change her name to her mother-in-laws say Jacintha Maria?  Talk 
>> about making our job of tracing our ancestors harder!  Not to mention, talk 
>> about a “kiss up”! LOL!  
>>
>>  
>>
>> Mary, Yes, it sure does make it harder to know what is what.  I’m trying 
>> to fill in the different branches of my tree and didn’t really count on 
>> tracking down all the marriages and obits, etc.  Was hoping to do it just 
>> through births/baptisms.  Oh well, I never really expected to finish my 
>> tree! 
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thanks guys,  
>>
>>  
>>
>> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From: *Richard Francis Pimentel 
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 19, 2019 12:04 PM
>> *To: *azo...@googlegroups.com 
>> *Subject: *RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Sam, Yes I have noticed that. I kind of think the bride sometimes took 
>> her mother in law’s name as a means to be accepted into the family better. *
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Rick*
>>
>> *Richard Francis Pimentel*
>>
>> *Epping, NH*
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy > > 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 19, 2019 12:46 PM
>> *To:* genealogy >
>> *Subject:* [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)
>>
>>  
>>
>> Hello all;  Has anyone else noticed how very, very often the names of the 
>> bride and or of the mother’s in law are exactly the same?  i.e. Bernardina 
>> Jacintha, Anna Filomena, etc.  Record after record, though not all of them 
>> of course, have the bride and her mother with exactly the same name and 
>> sometimes all three women in the record have the same name.  It just makes 
>> me worry that the priest has been “tippling” the vino…I know certain 
>> names were very common but; it seems to be more than that….
>>
>>  
>>
>> Just wondering…
>>
>>  
>>
>> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> [image: 
>> 

[AZORES-Genealogy] Sidenote, Sao Pedro, Santa Maria

['Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy]

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1880-1889/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1880-1889_item1/P166.html

Bottom right.  This is what I see on the side note:  Maria da ??  married 
Manoel de Moura.  He’s from Nossa Senhora d’Assumpcao, Sao Pedro.
They married on 27 March 1911.  Maria died on 16 February  1960.

If someone with better knowledge and eye sight could take a look, it would be 
much appreciated.
Sam (Mazatlán, MX)



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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Antonio Alves Brasil and Rosa Maria, Manadas, Sao Jorge Marriage note about 1766

[bsei2816]

Thank you very much Margaret.  I was almost there but the note was so 
different from most records I was really unsure.  I have subsequently found 
the marriage of the Rosa Maria de Piedade you mentioned.  It was in 1808 
the same year as the note so likely was the catalyst for the 
"justification".  I also found baptisms for four children of Antonio and 
Rosa Maria between 1763 and 1772, including a Rosa in 1772 that I suspect 
is Rosa Maria de Piedade.  All of these records say "Antonio...e sua mulher 
Rosa Maria"

Bill


On Thursday, March 21, 2019 at 6:51:59 AM UTC-7, Mara wrote:

> Bill, 
>
> That's what it is.  "A Justification" brought about by Rosa Maria da 
> Piedade, because they couldn't find the actual marriage record.  You will 
> see this near the end of 8th line from the top... "e, por que senao 
> acha o termo do seu recebimento" [and because the marriage record is not 
> found] . 
>
> Dated 1808 and inserted in the area of 1767 [probably closest blank area 
> they were able to enter this justification around the 44 year markof 
> 1764] for future reference.
>
> So it seams this couple had a daughter born of the marriage, Rosa Maria da 
> Piedade who justified it.
>
> Margaret
>
> On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 4:24 AM > wrote:
>
>> I would really like to understand what this is about (left side) but I 
>> really don't get it.  
>>
>> This page seems to have been inserted here and is some kind of 
>> explanation or justification rather than a marriage record.  It looks 
>> like it is dated 22 Jan 1808, but the records around it are 1766.  I think 
>> it says the couple has been married for 44 years (from 1808--so since 
>> 1763/4?)
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-MANADAS-C-1724-1775/SJR-VL-MANADAS-C-1724-1775_item1/P119.html
>>
>> I have been unable to find the marriage where one would expect it (before 
>> 1763).  I only came up with this not while I was looking for something else.
>>
>> These are my wife's ancestors.  My wife descends from their daughter 
>> born in Jan 1763.  She was daughter of Antonio Alveres Brasil and his wife 
>> Rosa Maria so at least that priest thought they were already married in Jan 
>> 1763.
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-MANADAS-B-1745-1773/SJR-VL-MANADAS-B-1745-1773_item1/P120.html
>>  
>> (bottom left)
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Bill Seidler
>>
>> -- 
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>>
>
>
> -- 
> Margaret M Vicente
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with Camara family

[Luis Arruda]

Thank you for your expeditious reply Cheri...
Luis 

On Thursday, March 21, 2019 at 8:54:20 PM UTC-4, Luis Arruda wrote:
>
> Looking for help with the date of birth...cannot make out the day or the 
> month ...and who are the godparents.
> I believe the father is Antao (Antonio?) da Camara and the mother is 
> Vicencia do Jesus, but who are the other people identified?
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-AJUDABRETANHA-B-1900-1911/SMG-PD-AJUDABRETANHA-B-1900-1911_item1/P131.html
> No 42 on the right.
>
> Thank you in advance...
> Luis Arruda
>
>
>

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)

['Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy]

Angela; Informative but; sure does make things difficult!  Oh well, we like a 
challenge, don’t we?!

Sam (Mazatlán, MX)

From: Ângela Loura
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 6:03 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)

« Um segundo nome de devoção podemos considerá-lo como apelido se este provinha 
das gerações anteriores e/ou foi repetidamente usado na mesma família em 
gerações seguintes. Porém, estes segundos nomes próprios de devoção muitas 
vezes não constituíam apelidos e, sobretudo no caso das mulheres, até eram dos 
que mais vezes se abandonavam ou trocavam, ao longo da vida. Daí uma hipotética 
Maria, filha de Miguel Lobo e de Ana do Rosário, poder surgir no seu casamento 
como Maria do Sacramento e sem qualquer apelido; no seu óbito como Maria Loba; 
e no baptismo de um neto - quando ela já era falecida - como Maria do Rosário. 
Caso haja lacunas documentais, estas alterações fazem mesmo duvidar que 
estejamos perante o mesmo indivíduo.»
- QUEIROZ, Francisco, MOSCATEL, Cristina, «DESCUBRA AS SUAS ORIGENS - Manual de 
Genealogia e História da Família», 2016, Esfera dos Livros, página 207.

This book has been my Genealogy Bible for the last 3 years, and a true life 
saver when it comes to overcome brickwalls in my researches.

Ângela Loura  escreveu no dia quarta, 20/03/2019 à(s) 
14:36:
I don't think the main name of the person (female) changes. The only changes I 
found so far is in the religious name (usually the second name added to the 
main name). For example, Maria das Dores turning into Maria da Assunção. I 
don't know why they would change it, but since it usually didn't even appear in 
the baptism record (only Maria), maybe there's (option 1:) no real 
meaning/importance given to the name - the worst religious names I've seen so 
far are the ones given to expostos without a previous name -, or (option 2:) 
there was a more complex importance we still haven't figured out.
I will check the "Descubra as suas origens" manual when I get home to see if 
the authors refer anything about this. 

A quarta, 20 de mar de 2019, 14:26, nancy jean baptiste 
 escreveu:
Hi all,

In some ways the same names is helpful to link to families. The Sao Jorge index 
makes it so easy to skim for "Silveira de Lemos" or variation thereof and  "de 
Jesus" women or in my mom's line "Bernarda"..but, in other cases it's 
horribly confusingie: my great grand father from Candelaria took the 
surname Cardoso while his brother took Silva...why? Who know's?

Enjoy the puzzle!
Nancy Jean

From: azores@googlegroups.com  on behalf of Leonor 
Bertoni 
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 10:00 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria) 
 
Sam, what I have been finding a lot of is sons taking on their father's first 
name as their last name. For example Nicolau do Rego's son will be João do Rego 
Nicolau. 

On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 21:58, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
 wrote:
Thanks Rick.  I get it now.  All these same names are driving me nutso.  Add to 
that the marrying of cousins and it sure does get crazy!
 
Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
 
From: Richard Francis Pimentel
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 5:32 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)
 
Not exactly.  If the Bride was Maria and the MIL was Francisca Rosa. The bride 
might take the name Maria Rosa or Maria Francisca. I cannot recall if I have 
seen the bride change her baptismal name.  
Rick
 
From: 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy  
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 6:32 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)
 
Rick; Do you mean that a bride of one name say, Ana Francisca would marry and 
change her name to her mother-in-laws say Jacintha Maria?  Talk about making 
our job of tracing our ancestors harder!  Not to mention, talk about a “kiss 
up”! LOL!  
 
Mary, Yes, it sure does make it harder to know what is what.  I’m trying to 
fill in the different branches of my tree and didn’t really count on tracking 
down all the marriages and obits, etc.  Was hoping to do it just through 
births/baptisms.  Oh well, I never really expected to finish my tree! 
 
Thanks guys,  
 
Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
 
From: Richard Francis Pimentel
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 12:04 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)
 
Sam, Yes I have noticed that. I kind of think the bride sometimes took her 
mother in law’s name as a means to be accepted into the family better. 
 
Rick
Richard Francis Pimentel
Epping, NH
 
 
 
 
From: 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy  
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 12:46 PM
To: genealogy 
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)
 
Hello all;  Has anyone else noticed how very, very often the names of the bride 
and or of the mother’s in law are exactly the same?  i.e. Bernardina Jacintha, 
Anna Filomena, etc.  Record after record, though not all of 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with Jacinta maternal grandmother's name

[JesseAndDeborah Mendonca]

Looks like Pavoã to me.  It is an uncommon surname that is most prevelant
in Brazil.  One resource said it is the female version of Paul.

I found this too:
Portuguese (pavão): nickname from pavão ‘peacock’, probably denoting
someone who was proud or self-important. Compare Pavon.

Debbie

On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 5:49 PM  wrote:

> David, these folks are my 4th great grandparents. I guess we're cousins!
>
>
>
> On Thursday, 21 March 2019 20:28:49 UTC-4, David Perry wrote:
>>
>> These folks, Andre and Anna are my grandparents.  Their son, Jose is
>> my ancestor.  Next in line, another Jose followed by yet another Jose and
>> finally, my grandmother Francesca.
>> David
>>
>> On Thursday, March 21, 2019 at 4:55:45 PM UTC-7, leonor@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all! Thanks to Cheri, I think I am back on the right track. Can
>>> someone else me with the maternal grandmother's last name, I see Felicia
>>> ().
>>>
>>>
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1789-1797/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1789-1797_item1/P324.html
>>>
>>> --
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> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)

[Ângela Loura]

« Um segundo nome de devoção podemos considerá-lo como apelido se este
provinha das gerações anteriores e/ou foi repetidamente usado na mesma
família em gerações seguintes. Porém, estes segundos nomes próprios de
devoção muitas vezes não constituíam apelidos e, *sobretudo no caso das
mulheres, até eram dos que mais vezes se abandonavam ou trocavam, ao longo
da vida. Daí uma hipotética Maria, filha de Miguel Lobo e de Ana do
Rosário, poder surgir no seu casamento como Maria do Sacramento e sem
qualquer apelido; no seu óbito como Maria Loba; e no baptismo de um neto -
quando ela já era falecida - como Maria do Rosário.* Caso haja lacunas
documentais, estas alterações fazem mesmo duvidar que estejamos perante o
mesmo indivíduo.»
- QUEIROZ, Francisco, MOSCATEL, Cristina, «DESCUBRA AS SUAS ORIGENS -
Manual de Genealogia e História da Família», 2016, Esfera dos Livros,
página 207.

This book has been my Genealogy Bible for the last 3 years, and a true life
saver when it comes to overcome brickwalls in my researches.

Ângela Loura  escreveu no dia quarta, 20/03/2019
à(s) 14:36:

> I don't think the main name of the person (female) changes. The only
> changes I found so far is in the religious name (usually the second name
> added to the main name). For example, Maria das Dores turning into Maria da
> Assunção. I don't know why they would change it, but since it usually
> didn't even appear in the baptism record (only Maria), maybe there's
> (option 1:) no real meaning/importance given to the name - the worst
> religious names I've seen so far are the ones given to expostos without a
> previous name -, or (option 2:) there was a more complex importance we
> still haven't figured out.
> I will check the "Descubra as suas origens" manual when I get home to see
> if the authors refer anything about this.
>
> A quarta, 20 de mar de 2019, 14:26, nancy jean baptiste <
> fishsongf...@hotmail.com> escreveu:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> In some ways the same names is helpful to link to families. The Sao Jorge
>> index makes it so easy to skim for "Silveira de Lemos" or variation thereof
>> and  "de Jesus" women or in my mom's line "Bernarda"..but, in other
>> cases it's horribly confusingie: my great grand father from Candelaria
>> took the surname Cardoso while his brother took Silva...why? Who know's?
>>
>> Enjoy the puzzle!
>> Nancy Jean
>> --
>> *From:* azores@googlegroups.com  on behalf of
>> Leonor Bertoni 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 19, 2019 10:00 PM
>> *To:* Azores Genealogy
>> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)
>>
>> Sam, what I have been finding a lot of is sons taking on their father's
>> first name as their last name. For example Nicolau do Rego's son will be
>> João do Rego Nicolau.
>>
>> On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 21:58, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
>> azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Rick.  I get it now.  All these same names are driving me nutso.
>> Add to that the marrying of cousins and it sure does get crazy!
>>
>>
>>
>> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Richard Francis Pimentel 
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 19, 2019 5:32 PM
>> *To: *azores@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject: *RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)
>>
>>
>>
>> *Not exactly.  If the Bride was Maria and the MIL was Francisca Rosa. The
>> bride might take the name Maria Rosa or Maria Francisca. I cannot recall if
>> I have seen the bride change her baptismal name.  *
>>
>> *Rick*
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 19, 2019 6:32 PM
>> *To:* azores@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick; Do you mean that a bride of one name say, Ana Francisca would
>> marry and change her name to her mother-in-laws say Jacintha Maria?  Talk
>> about making our job of tracing our ancestors harder!  Not to mention, talk
>> about a “kiss up”! LOL!
>>
>>
>>
>> Mary, Yes, it sure does make it harder to know what is what.  I’m trying
>> to fill in the different branches of my tree and didn’t really count on
>> tracking down all the marriages and obits, etc.  Was hoping to do it just
>> through births/baptisms.  Oh well, I never really expected to finish my
>> tree!
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks guys,
>>
>>
>>
>> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Richard Francis Pimentel 
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 19, 2019 12:04 PM
>> *To: *azores@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject: *RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)
>>
>>
>>
>> *Sam, Yes I have noticed that. I kind of think the bride sometimes took
>> her mother in law’s name as a means to be accepted into the family better. *
>>
>>
>>
>> *Rick*
>>
>> *Richard Francis Pimentel*
>>
>> *Epping, NH*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 19, 2019 12:46 PM
>> *To:* genealogy 
>> *Subject:* [AZORES-Genealogy] Names (Santa Maria)
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello all;  Has anyone else noticed how very, very often the names 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] List of Seminary students

[Cheri Mello]

I would VERY QUICKLY download this to your computer and keep it somewhere
before it disappears. The Azorean Government has been having a lot of talk
about privacy, and this document violates it. Cheri
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 5:56 PM Rosemarie Capodicci 
wrote:

> Kathy, thanks for putting it on your site, that way I can't forget how to
> access the site! LOL
>
> Rosemarie
> rcap...@gmail.com
> Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
> Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 4:45 PM 'Kathy Cardoza' via Azores Genealogy <
> azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> There has been a new link added to the Azores GenWeb. It is a list of
>> seminary students that attended seminary in Angra from 1862 until 2013. 
>> Information
>> includes the student name, their freguesia, their parents, the age they
>> were admitted to the seminary, the date admitted, and any observations.
>>
>> The link is titled, "Alunos do Seminário Episcopal de Angra de 1862 –
>> 2013
>> 
>> *”* and can be found on this page:
>> http://www.worldgenweb.org/azrwgw/general-info/links.html
>>
>>
>> When you connect to the linked file, look at the bottom of the page and
>> click on the middle tab, "Registo da BPARAH-2”, for the list of students.
>> The students are not only from Terceira, but could be from any of the
>> islands. The page is searchable by using Control+F for Windows, or
>> Command+F for Macs.
>>
>> Kathy Cardoza
>> Coordinator, Azores GenWeb
>> ~~~
>> Visit the Azores GenWeb Project:
>>http://www.worldgenweb.org/azrwgw/
>> ~~~
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>
> --
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] List of Seminary students

[Rosemarie Capodicci]

Kathy, thanks for putting it on your site, that way I can't forget how to
access the site! LOL

Rosemarie
rcap...@gmail.com
Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily


On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 4:45 PM 'Kathy Cardoza' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> There has been a new link added to the Azores GenWeb. It is a list of
> seminary students that attended seminary in Angra from 1862 until 2013. 
> Information
> includes the student name, their freguesia, their parents, the age they
> were admitted to the seminary, the date admitted, and any observations.
>
> The link is titled, "Alunos do Seminário Episcopal de Angra de 1862 – 2013
> 
> *”* and can be found on this page:
> http://www.worldgenweb.org/azrwgw/general-info/links.html
>
>
> When you connect to the linked file, look at the bottom of the page and
> click on the middle tab, "Registo da BPARAH-2”, for the list of students.
> The students are not only from Terceira, but could be from any of the
> islands. The page is searchable by using Control+F for Windows, or
> Command+F for Macs.
>
> Kathy Cardoza
> Coordinator, Azores GenWeb
> ~~~
> Visit the Azores GenWeb Project:
>http://www.worldgenweb.org/azrwgw/
> ~~~
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Camara family

[Luis Arruda]

Looking for help with the date of birth...cannot make out the day or the 
month ...and who are the godparents.
I believe the father is Antao (Antonio?) da Camara and the mother is 
Vicencia do Jesus, but who are the other people identified?
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-AJUDABRETANHA-B-1900-1911/SMG-PD-AJUDABRETANHA-B-1900-1911_item1/P131.html
No 42 on the right.

Thank you in advance...
Luis Arruda


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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with Jacinta maternal grandmother's name

[leonor . bertoni]

David, these folks are my 4th great grandparents. I guess we're cousins!



On Thursday, 21 March 2019 20:28:49 UTC-4, David Perry wrote:
>
> These folks, Andre and Anna are my grandparents.  Their son, Jose is 
> my ancestor.  Next in line, another Jose followed by yet another Jose and 
> finally, my grandmother Francesca.
> David
>
> On Thursday, March 21, 2019 at 4:55:45 PM UTC-7, leonor@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all! Thanks to Cheri, I think I am back on the right track. Can 
>> someone else me with the maternal grandmother's last name, I see Felicia 
>> ().
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1789-1797/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1789-1797_item1/P324.html
>>
>>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with Jacinta maternal grandmother's name

[JesseAndDeborah Mendonca]

David Perry,

In my family it’s all of the Joaquims! That we can all locate our ancestors
is absolutely amazing under these conditions!

:•)
Debbie



On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 5:28 PM David Perry  wrote:

> These folks, Andre and Anna are my grandparents.  Their son, Jose is
> my ancestor.  Next in line, another Jose followed by yet another Jose and
> finally, my grandmother Francesca.
> David
>
> On Thursday, March 21, 2019 at 4:55:45 PM UTC-7, leonor@gmail.com
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all! Thanks to Cheri, I think I am back on the right track. Can
>> someone else me with the maternal grandmother's last name, I see Felicia
>> ().
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1789-1797/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1789-1797_item1/P324.html
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with Jacinta maternal grandmother's name

[David Perry]

These folks, Andre and Anna are my grandparents.  Their son, Jose is my 
ancestor.  Next in line, another Jose followed by yet another Jose and 
finally, my grandmother Francesca.
David

On Thursday, March 21, 2019 at 4:55:45 PM UTC-7, leonor@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Hi all! Thanks to Cheri, I think I am back on the right track. Can someone 
> else me with the maternal grandmother's last name, I see Felicia ().
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1789-1797/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1789-1797_item1/P324.html
>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with Jacinta maternal grandmother's name

[Ângela Loura]

Felicia Pavoa (from the last name Pavão).

Sometimes they changed the gender of the last names when a woman used it
(ex: Catharina Velha (=Velho); Maria Baiôa (=Baião); Anna Gamboa (=Gambão);
Ignês Garçôa (=Garção), etc). In somes cases, the female version of the
last name was the one passed on to the following generations.

 escreveu no dia sexta, 22/03/2019 à(s) 00:03:

> Thank you!
>
>
> On Thursday, 21 March 2019 20:01:44 UTC-4, JR wrote:
>>
>> Felicia Pavoa, modern Pavao with accent over ao.
>>
>> JR
>>
>> On Thursday, March 21, 2019 at 7:55:45 PM UTC-4, leonor@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all! Thanks to Cheri, I think I am back on the right track. Can
>>> someone else me with the maternal grandmother's last name, I see Felicia
>>> ().
>>>
>>>
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1789-1797/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1789-1797_item1/P324.html
>>>
>>> --
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with Jacinta maternal grandmother's name

[leonor . bertoni]

Thank you!


On Thursday, 21 March 2019 20:01:44 UTC-4, JR wrote:
>
> Felicia Pavoa, modern Pavao with accent over ao.
>
> JR
>
> On Thursday, March 21, 2019 at 7:55:45 PM UTC-4, leonor@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all! Thanks to Cheri, I think I am back on the right track. Can 
>> someone else me with the maternal grandmother's last name, I see Felicia 
>> ().
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1789-1797/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1789-1797_item1/P324.html
>>
>>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with Jacinta maternal grandmother's name

[JR]

Felicia Pavoa, modern Pavao with accent over ao.

JR

On Thursday, March 21, 2019 at 7:55:45 PM UTC-4, leonor@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Hi all! Thanks to Cheri, I think I am back on the right track. Can someone 
> else me with the maternal grandmother's last name, I see Felicia ().
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1789-1797/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1789-1797_item1/P324.html
>
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Jacinta maternal grandmother's name

[leonor . bertoni]

Hi all! Thanks to Cheri, I think I am back on the right track. Can someone 
else me with the maternal grandmother's last name, I see Felicia ().

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1789-1797/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1789-1797_item1/P324.html

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[AZORES-Genealogy] List of Seminary students

['Kathy Cardoza' via Azores Genealogy]

There has been a new link added to the Azores GenWeb. It is a list of seminary 
students that attended seminary in Angra from 1862 until 2013. Information 
includes the student name, their freguesia, their parents, the age they were 
admitted to the seminary, the date admitted, and any observations.

The link is titled, "Alunos do Seminário Episcopal de Angra de 1862 – 2013 
”
 and can be found on this page:  
http://www.worldgenweb.org/azrwgw/general-info/links.html

 
When you connect to the linked file, look at the bottom of the page and click 
on the middle tab, "Registo da BPARAH-2”, for the list of students. The 
students are not only from Terceira, but could be from any of the islands. The 
page is searchable by using Control+F for Windows, or Command+F for Macs.

Kathy Cardoza
Coordinator, Azores GenWeb
~~~
Visit the Azores GenWeb Project:
   http://www.worldgenweb.org/azrwgw/ 
~~~

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] How to start a new subject, topic, or thread on any List-serv or Group

[Billy Shear]

Hi Cheri,
I sent a e-mail to respond to all the work you did on my grandparents,
however I attached to photo's that was greater than 8 megabytes not
realizing that it would not be sent. I also went back to my sent mail and
all the email I sent are gone. So I can't even find where I started in my
messages.
Here is what I sent to you without the photo's  If this is in the wrong
location just read and deleted it.I didn't want you to think I didn't reply
back.
Thanks Mario Silvia

Hi Cheri,
I believe this is correct. My grandmother was a Correia. I always heard my
family speak of the Correia's. Her burial stone has a C. marked on it as
Maria C. Silvia. What is really strange, how would someone no know when
they were born. All the paper work for the ship manifest show my
grandmother as being born 1886 not 1883. So, if I understand what you are
saying, he was born 1878 and she 1883. There burial stones show the dates
as 1880 & 1886.

My grandfather, from what I was told was a very learned man, who spoke
Portuguese, Italian, and French read many books. How he would not know his
own birthday just seem so strange. My grandmother on the other hand did not
read or write.  Yet the marriage certificate shows them being married in
Oct 24, 1904. That would also make her 89 at death.

There was a error on the ship manifest that showed my father Mariano being
8 years old when he was only 6.  Born April 25, 1914. Did they not need a
passport to leave the country?

Thanks for the valuable information. I will do more research.

Thanks Mario Silvia


On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 5:29 PM Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Here's how to start a new subject, topic, or thread on any list-serv or
> group. We will use this group as an example.
>
> 1) Go to your email client and click button for Compose or New Email or
> what have you.
> 2) In the To or Address box, put: azores@googlegroups.com
> 3) In the Subject, put your subject, as you would any email. I do suggest
> trying to put the 3 key pieces in the subject, if applicable. Name, date
> (or range) and place. Many people are still working and scan the subject
> heading for their area. "Help Me" or "I'm New" or "Translate This" will
> miss a good chunk of the reading audience as they are busy. But you put
> "Silva, 1860-1880s, Sao Miguel island" and you've just made the busy people
> stop and look at your email.
> 4) In the body, put what you know, what research you've done, what you
> need help with, etc.
>
> Hope this helps those who are new to list-servs and groups :)
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Paternal Grandfather's name

[Leonor Bertoni]

Thanks Cheri.
Yes, Monica de Jesus is the exposta. On some records, her name is listed as
Maria do Rosario. When I uploaded my tree, the media didn't go, nor did
everyone's place of birth so there isn't too much detail. Is there an easy
way to correct this? For my father's line, a couple of cousins and I are
planning on going to Portugal next year, I will see if I can get his record
then. I had a box of paperwork that was destroyed in a flood, my Portuguese
ID (bilhete de identidade) card was in there as well as my cartão de
contribuinte.

On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 14:46, Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Hi Leonor,
>
> I'm going to respond on a thread that you started and not Mario's.
>
> On your paternal side, from the mainlandYou are in a gap between the
> records and what is online, I believe. You are going to have to pay to get
> your dad's birth, as the 1920s births would list the grandparents. And from
> there you could go back in time. If you still have your Portuguese identity
> card, you can order the record yourself. I think it's here (looks like the
> redesigned the web site): https://eportugal.gov.pt/  If you no longer
> have your card, see if Joao Ventura, the archivist who lives on Terceira
> can get it for you: heroi99 at yahoo.com
>
> On the ancestress who has no father (or no parents)...I can see your tree
> on FTDNA. I'm not sure who you are referring to, as I'd need a name. I can
> see Monica de Jesus with no parents listed. I don't know if that means you
> are going to come back around to work her line or she's an exposta. If she
> is the exposta, put "Pai Incognito" for her dad and Mae Incognita for her
> mom. That's what us researchers do for our expostos or pai incognito lines.
> Then there's no assumption on anyone's part. :)
>
> Cheri
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 9:36 AM Leonor Bertoni 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Margaret. It could be but I have another record that is clearer, I
>> will have to find it.
>>
>> Leonor
>>
>> On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 12:10, Margaret Vicente 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Leonor,
>>>
>>> I'me reading it as "Jose Joaquim Tronelho"
>>>
>>> Margaret
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 4:06 PM  wrote:
>>>
 Can someone make out the paternal grandfather's last name? I see João
 Joaquim ???



 http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1897-1899/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1897-1899_item1/P130.html

 TIA

 Leonor

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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Margaret M Vicente
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>> --
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>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>
> --
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Paternal Grandfather's name

[Cheri Mello]

 Hi Leonor,

I'm going to respond on a thread that you started and not Mario's.

On your paternal side, from the mainlandYou are in a gap between the
records and what is online, I believe. You are going to have to pay to get
your dad's birth, as the 1920s births would list the grandparents. And from
there you could go back in time. If you still have your Portuguese identity
card, you can order the record yourself. I think it's here (looks like the
redesigned the web site): https://eportugal.gov.pt/  If you no longer have
your card, see if Joao Ventura, the archivist who lives on Terceira can get
it for you: heroi99 at yahoo.com

On the ancestress who has no father (or no parents)...I can see your tree
on FTDNA. I'm not sure who you are referring to, as I'd need a name. I can
see Monica de Jesus with no parents listed. I don't know if that means you
are going to come back around to work her line or she's an exposta. If she
is the exposta, put "Pai Incognito" for her dad and Mae Incognita for her
mom. That's what us researchers do for our expostos or pai incognito lines.
Then there's no assumption on anyone's part. :)

Cheri

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 9:36 AM Leonor Bertoni 
wrote:

> Thanks Margaret. It could be but I have another record that is clearer, I
> will have to find it.
>
> Leonor
>
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 12:10, Margaret Vicente 
> wrote:
>
>> Leonor,
>>
>> I'me reading it as "Jose Joaquim Tronelho"
>>
>> Margaret
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 4:06 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> Can someone make out the paternal grandfather's last name? I see João
>>> Joaquim ???
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1897-1899/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1897-1899_item1/P130.html
>>>
>>> TIA
>>>
>>> Leonor
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
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>>> an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Margaret M Vicente
>>
>> --
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>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Tracking My Grandparents lost without a trace

[Rosemarie Capodicci]

Congratulations, Mario! Go and enjoy your trip and visit your 'homeland'!!

Rosemarie
rcap...@gmail.com
Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily


On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 9:29 AM Billy Shear 
wrote:

> Update:
>
> I found most of the information for my grandparents,my father, aunts &
> uncle. Here are the names.
> Manuel da Silva born July 18, 1880 from Arrifes, Sao Miguel. He left on
> Oct 23,1919 landed in New York Oct 31,1919 paid for his own trip, had
> $16.00 on him. SS ROMA  His Wife Maria da Lus da Silva born Sept 08, 1886
> from Arrifes married my grandfather at 19 years old, he was 24. She left
> with her four children.
> Oldest child Conceicao da Silva 12yr.  next Deolinda da Silva 11yr.
> Marianno da Silva 8yr. Manuel da Silva 1 yr.  Left on Aug 31,1920 landed in
> Boston Ma.
> Sept 07, 1920 SS CRETIC.
>
> They started their lives on Mulberry St. in Fall River Ma. with his
> brother. There was 11 people living there when they started to move in.
> They then moved to Swansea Ma. a few years later, in small little 3 bedroom
> house on the corner Ashmont St. They had two more daughters Sarah & Lydia
> all in that little 3 bedroom house which is still there.
>
>  From there, my Dad built several dozen homes in that area. Was one of the
> best contractors around. They all ended up with their own homes and had
> many
>  more children. They have all now passed away. They create many new
> generations in Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Minnesota,Georgia,
> Texas, Oregon, Florida,North Carolina.
>
>  Now 100 years later, my cousin and I will head back to where it all
> started. I'm glad I was able to find all this information in a short period
> of time. Prior to a few days ago, I never knew their real name at least my
> two aunts. I kinda feel like, I completed the most important part, finding
> my roots.
>
> Thanks to all
> Mario Silvia
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 4:48 PM Maria Lima 
> wrote:
>
>> So true.   I enjoyed reading your grateful expressions about   your
>> ancestors.   Beautiful that you treasure the gift they left.  I think your
>> trip will be so sacred to you as you walk the places they walked and
>> experience being there.  Keep us posted.
>>
>> Maria Elena
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 17, 2019, at 2:10 AM, Billy Shear 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Cheri,Deb& Elaine
>>
>> I don't think it matters if I'm a Silva,Barabosa, Mello or Mendona, we
>> are all from the same gene pool. My grandfather left his beloved country to
>> find a better life. He left first, and saved enough money to have my
>> grandmother and their four children come to the greatest country in the
>> world. Why because the opportunities were so great. He work very hard, and
>> started a new life, never to look back. Now, 100 years later, I make the
>> trip back to were he started. That in in it self, is quit amazing. Think of
>> these people, who had such great courage to make the voyage to a strange
>> and unknown world., They are the heroes of this story. Yes, I would like to
>> know the town they came from, and if I still have relatives there, but in
>> the bigger scheme of things it really does matter. I will go there and see
>> the beautiful world he left. He and my grandmother afforded me the greatest
>> life, I now enjoy so much. I will never forget my heritage, and never
>> forget what this man and woman have done to create such a great life for
>> myself and of my relatives now experience.I never met my grandfather he
>> died at 62 years of age after being hit by a car. His & my grandmothers
>> sacrifice has enriched all of the Silvia's life's and I can't even count
>> how many now live here. The sad part is many may never give it a second
>> though. I look forward to going to the old country, and seeing all the
>> great people and things that he and my grandmother once enjoyed. I hope
>> that all you get to make the trip at least once in your life. I will let
>> everyone know how it all worked out. I'm heading there  April 20.
>>
>> Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.
>>
>> Mario Silvia
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 10:44 PM Elaine Mello 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Mario,
>>>
>>> It might help to think of this more like a treasure hunt - or a mystery
>>> to investigate.  Even on the U.S. side I'm finding  digging up information
>>> to be a challenge - my grandfather came over via the passports as Antonio
>>> De Mello Barbosa, but got listed in the first U.S. Census here with his
>>> parents as Silva (after his mother's maiden name) which was mislabeled on
>>> Ancestry as Liba since they couldn't read the name properly - he got
>>> married as Silva and later on was listed as both De Mello and Mello on
>>> various Massachusetts documents.
>>>
>>> What helped me get back further than that was finding his naturalization
>>> documentation which listed the village (or freguesia) and led me to this
>>> group here. I found his naturalization 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Paternal Grandfather's name

[Leonor Bertoni]

Thanks Margaret. It could be but I have another record that is clearer, I
will have to find it.

Leonor

On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 12:10, Margaret Vicente 
wrote:

> Leonor,
>
> I'me reading it as "Jose Joaquim Tronelho"
>
> Margaret
>
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 4:06 PM  wrote:
>
>> Can someone make out the paternal grandfather's last name? I see João
>> Joaquim ???
>>
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1897-1899/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1897-1899_item1/P130.html
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Leonor
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>
>
>
> --
> Margaret M Vicente
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Tracking My Grandparents lost without a trace

[Billy Shear]

Update:

I found most of the information for my grandparents,my father, aunts &
uncle. Here are the names.
Manuel da Silva born July 18, 1880 from Arrifes, Sao Miguel. He left on Oct
23,1919 landed in New York Oct 31,1919 paid for his own trip, had $16.00 on
him. SS ROMA  His Wife Maria da Lus da Silva born Sept 08, 1886 from
Arrifes married my grandfather at 19 years old, he was 24. She left with
her four children.
Oldest child Conceicao da Silva 12yr.  next Deolinda da Silva 11yr.
Marianno da Silva 8yr. Manuel da Silva 1 yr.  Left on Aug 31,1920 landed in
Boston Ma.
Sept 07, 1920 SS CRETIC.

They started their lives on Mulberry St. in Fall River Ma. with his
brother. There was 11 people living there when they started to move in.
They then moved to Swansea Ma. a few years later, in small little 3 bedroom
house on the corner Ashmont St. They had two more daughters Sarah & Lydia
all in that little 3 bedroom house which is still there.

 From there, my Dad built several dozen homes in that area. Was one of the
best contractors around. They all ended up with their own homes and had
many
 more children. They have all now passed away. They create many new
generations in Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Minnesota,Georgia,
Texas, Oregon, Florida,North Carolina.

 Now 100 years later, my cousin and I will head back to where it all
started. I'm glad I was able to find all this information in a short period
of time. Prior to a few days ago, I never knew their real name at least my
two aunts. I kinda feel like, I completed the most important part, finding
my roots.

Thanks to all
Mario Silvia


On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 4:48 PM Maria Lima  wrote:

> So true.   I enjoyed reading your grateful expressions about   your
> ancestors.   Beautiful that you treasure the gift they left.  I think your
> trip will be so sacred to you as you walk the places they walked and
> experience being there.  Keep us posted.
>
> Maria Elena
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 17, 2019, at 2:10 AM, Billy Shear  wrote:
>
> Hi Cheri,Deb& Elaine
>
> I don't think it matters if I'm a Silva,Barabosa, Mello or Mendona, we are
> all from the same gene pool. My grandfather left his beloved country to
> find a better life. He left first, and saved enough money to have my
> grandmother and their four children come to the greatest country in the
> world. Why because the opportunities were so great. He work very hard, and
> started a new life, never to look back. Now, 100 years later, I make the
> trip back to were he started. That in in it self, is quit amazing. Think of
> these people, who had such great courage to make the voyage to a strange
> and unknown world., They are the heroes of this story. Yes, I would like to
> know the town they came from, and if I still have relatives there, but in
> the bigger scheme of things it really does matter. I will go there and see
> the beautiful world he left. He and my grandmother afforded me the greatest
> life, I now enjoy so much. I will never forget my heritage, and never
> forget what this man and woman have done to create such a great life for
> myself and of my relatives now experience.I never met my grandfather he
> died at 62 years of age after being hit by a car. His & my grandmothers
> sacrifice has enriched all of the Silvia's life's and I can't even count
> how many now live here. The sad part is many may never give it a second
> though. I look forward to going to the old country, and seeing all the
> great people and things that he and my grandmother once enjoyed. I hope
> that all you get to make the trip at least once in your life. I will let
> everyone know how it all worked out. I'm heading there  April 20.
>
> Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.
>
> Mario Silvia
>
> On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 10:44 PM Elaine Mello 
> wrote:
>
>> Mario,
>>
>> It might help to think of this more like a treasure hunt - or a mystery
>> to investigate.  Even on the U.S. side I'm finding  digging up information
>> to be a challenge - my grandfather came over via the passports as Antonio
>> De Mello Barbosa, but got listed in the first U.S. Census here with his
>> parents as Silva (after his mother's maiden name) which was mislabeled on
>> Ancestry as Liba since they couldn't read the name properly - he got
>> married as Silva and later on was listed as both De Mello and Mello on
>> various Massachusetts documents.
>>
>> What helped me get back further than that was finding his naturalization
>> documentation which listed the village (or freguesia) and led me to this
>> group here. I found his naturalization papers on Ancestry, which listed his
>> home on Sao Miguel. The church documents do take some time to go through,
>> but the more you do, the better you get at reading them, recognizing
>> handwriting and appreciating when there was a priest who wrote with a
>> clearer hand that makes it easier to read as you go along.  It does improve
>> with time as you work your way through the documentation. 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Paternal Grandfather's name

[Margaret Vicente]

Leonor,

I'me reading it as "Jose Joaquim Tronelho"

Margaret

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 4:06 PM  wrote:

> Can someone make out the paternal grandfather's last name? I see João
> Joaquim ???
>
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1897-1899/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1897-1899_item1/P130.html
>
> TIA
>
> Leonor
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>


-- 
Margaret M Vicente

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with Paternal Grandfather's name

[leonor . bertoni]

Cheri,
Is there something I need to buy at FamilytreeDNA? I had uploaded my DNA 
some time ago and just uploaded a clean version of my tree (just ancestors 
and descendants).


On Thursday, 21 March 2019 00:14:12 UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote:
>
> Leonor,
>
> There's only 1 Leonor in the Azores DNA project on Familly Tree DNA and 
> it's not you. I know who that other Leonor is. You need to join the Azores 
> DNA Project on FTDNA so I can help you and explain to you want you need to 
> do next, who to contact, etc.  Cheri
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 8:57 PM JR > wrote:
>
>> Ok, I think I understand. You want to try and make links using DNA 
>> matches because you don't know one part of your tree. Do your known 
>> ancestors include anyone from Vila Franca? If you post them I may be able 
>> to help with that.
>>
>> JR
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 20, 2019 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-4, Leonor Bertoni wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi, right now, I’m just pulling baptismal records of all my ancestors. 
>>> This is while I’m reading some books on ancestry and trying to figure out 
>>> where to go from here. For example, my maternal grandparents and my great 
>>> grandparents never left the island. Once I have their baptismal, marriage 
>>> and death records (and those of their decendants), what do I do? Am I done 
>>> with them? Is there something else I can search? It seems like so little. 
>>> My grandfather died at sea. I know nothing about life as a fishermanmy 
>>> great grandmother was a foundling so I’m pretty much done my tree on her 
>>> side. My father’s side I know absolutely nothing about. What I’ve been 
>>> trying to do is connect with my DNA matches, and that seems to take me 
>>> everywhere! I may be doing this all wrong but, for now, it’s the only way I 
>>> know how, lol.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 11:05 PM JR  wrote:
>>>
 Leonor, I am confused about who you are researching. Is it that you 
 don't know? You seem to be all over the place when searching.

 JR

 On Tuesday, March 19, 2019 at 4:06:36 PM UTC-4, leonor@gmail.com 
 wrote:
>
> Can someone make out the paternal grandfather's last name? I see João 
> Joaquim ???
>
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1897-1899/SMG-LG-ROSARIO-B-1897-1899_item1/P130.html
>
> TIA
>
> Leonor
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Antonio Alves Brasil and Rosa Maria, Manadas, Sao Jorge Marriage note about 1766

[Margaret Vicente]

Bill,

That's what it is.  "A Justification" brought about by Rosa Maria da
Piedade, because they couldn't find the actual marriage record.  You will
see this near the end of 8th line from the top... "e, por que senao
acha o termo do seu recebimento" [and because the marriage record is not
found] .

Dated 1808 and inserted in the area of 1767 [probably closest blank area
they were able to enter this justification around the 44 year markof
1764] for future reference.

So it seams this couple had a daughter born of the marriage, Rosa Maria da
Piedade who justified it.

Margaret

On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 4:24 AM  wrote:

> I would really like to understand what this is about (left side) but I
> really don't get it.
>
> This page seems to have been inserted here and is some kind of explanation
> or justification rather than a marriage record.  It looks like it is dated
> 22 Jan 1808, but the records around it are 1766.  I think it says the
> couple has been married for 44 years (from 1808--so since 1763/4?)
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-MANADAS-C-1724-1775/SJR-VL-MANADAS-C-1724-1775_item1/P119.html
>
> I have been unable to find the marriage where one would expect it (before
> 1763).  I only came up with this not while I was looking for something else.
>
> These are my wife's ancestors.  My wife descends from their daughter
> born in Jan 1763.  She was daughter of Antonio Alveres Brasil and his wife
> Rosa Maria so at least that priest thought they were already married in Jan
> 1763.
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-MANADAS-B-1745-1773/SJR-VL-MANADAS-B-1745-1773_item1/P120.html
> (bottom left)
>
> Thank you,
> Bill Seidler
>
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>


-- 
Margaret M Vicente

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Antonio Alves Brasil and Rosa Maria, Manadas, Sao Jorge Marriage note about 1766

[bsei2816]

I would really like to understand what this is about (left side) but I 
really don't get it.  

This page seems to have been inserted here and is some kind of explanation 
or justification rather than a marriage record.  It looks like it is dated 
22 Jan 1808, but the records around it are 1766.  I think it says the 
couple has been married for 44 years (from 1808--so since 1763/4?)

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-MANADAS-C-1724-1775/SJR-VL-MANADAS-C-1724-1775_item1/P119.html

I have been unable to find the marriage where one would expect it (before 
1763).  I only came up with this not while I was looking for something else.

These are my wife's ancestors.  My wife descends from their daughter 
born in Jan 1763.  She was daughter of Antonio Alveres Brasil and his wife 
Rosa Maria so at least that priest thought they were already married in Jan 
1763.
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-MANADAS-B-1745-1773/SJR-VL-MANADAS-B-1745-1773_item1/P120.html
 
(bottom left)

Thank you,
Bill Seidler

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