Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux

[Kern Sibbald]

  
  
Hello Radek,
Yes, I would like to see lin_tape support, and though I vaguely
  remember something about a lin_tape patch, there are a number of
  things necessary to get a patch accepted:
1. I must be able to get a signed CAA (copyright assignment
  agreement).  A number of people who send patches never follow
  through with the CAA.  (for those who have, many thanks!)
2. The patch must put the code into a new driver that can be
  loaded in place of the current tape driver.
3. The patch must follow our programming guidelines or not be too
  far from it (I can always fix a few minor things).
Best regards,
Kern

On 10/29/19 1:57 PM, Radosław
  Korzeniewski wrote:


  
  
Hello,


  wt., 22 paź 2019 o
10:46 Kern Sibbald 
napisał(a):
  
  (...) so this would leave
either a community submission, or Bacula Systems to
implement it.
  



I think the Community can prepare and test the required code as
Enterprise clients do not want to participate in such
development. I have a two BEE customers which just simply drop
lin_tape drive when they got info it is not supported under
Bacula and switch to plain st.
So, unless Bacula Systems decide to make an investment
  which could never payoff the Community should handle this.
  AFAIR on this list should be a patch prepared by some
  community developer which add support for lin_tape driver to
  Bacula. Unfortunate the patch was rejected by Kern at that
  time. I think we can use this patch and port it to the current
  Bacula version source code and allow a broad Community users
  to test this. We can add a compile time parameter which will
  simply enable this support and mark it extremely experimental.
  
  
  What do you think about it?
  -- 
  Radosław Korzeniewski
rados...@korzeniewski.net

  

  


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Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux

[Radosław Korzeniewski]

Hello,

wt., 22 paź 2019 o 10:46 Kern Sibbald  napisał(a):

> (...) so this would leave
> either a community submission, or Bacula Systems to implement it.
>

I think the Community can prepare and test the required code as Enterprise
clients do not want to participate in such development. I have a two BEE
customers which just simply drop lin_tape drive when they got info it is
not supported under Bacula and switch to plain st.
So, unless Bacula Systems decide to make an investment which could never
payoff the Community should handle this. AFAIR on this list should be a
patch prepared by some community developer which add support for lin_tape
driver to Bacula. Unfortunate the patch was rejected by Kern at that time.
I think we can use this patch and port it to the current Bacula version
source code and allow a broad Community users to test this. We can add a
compile time parameter which will simply enable this support and mark it
extremely experimental.

What do you think about it?
-- 
Radosław Korzeniewski
rados...@korzeniewski.net
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Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux

[shouldbe q931]

On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 6:47 PM William Muriithi  wrote:
>




>
> None supported:
> [root@eng-backup01 ~]# sdiff -sb pci_device_no_storage__card2-2.txt  
> pci_device_atto_card2-2.txt
> Memory behind bridge: None| 
> Memory behind bridge: d400-d4ff [size=16M]
>   >
>   > 42:00.0 
> Serial Attached SCSI controller: ATTO Technology, Inc
>   > 
> Subsystem: ATTO Technology, Inc. ExpressSAS H680
>   > 
> Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 15, NU
>   > 
> Memory at d4fc (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=6
>   > 
> Memory at d4fd (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=6
>   > 
> Memory at d4fe (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=6
>   > 
> Memory at d4ff (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=6
>   > 
> Expansion ROM at d400 [disabled] [size=1M]
>   > 
> Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 3
>   > 
> Capabilities: [50] MSI: Enable- Count=1/32 Maskable-
>   > 
> Capabilities: [70] Express Endpoint, MSI 00
>   > 
> Capabilities: [ac] MSI-X: Enable- Count=16 Masked-
>   > 
> Capabilities: [100] Advanced Error Reporting
> [root@eng-backup01 ~]#
>
> Regards,
> William

Have you installed the Atto driver ? https://www.atto.com/downloads/78
 (registration required)

Cheers

Arne


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Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux

[Kern Sibbald]

On 10/21/19 6:00 PM, Alan Brown wrote:
> On 21/10/2019 16:13, Dimitri Maziuk via Bacula-users wrote:
>> On 10/21/2019 9:14 AM, Clark, Patti via Bacula-users wrote:
>> ...
>>> My question (rhetorical), why do you want to use an OS that is 
>>> recently released and still bleeding for a backup server?  I 
>>> understand upgrade headaches, but backup servers need to be rock solid.
>> Why use any RHEL > 6 for any kind of server?
>>
> Because RHEL6 is EOL and won't even install on newer hardware?
>
> (EOS is some time off, but it's on life support mode now - bug/security 
> fixes only and one of the more annoying "features" is that RHEL6 doesn't 
> support ECN properly - it has ECN but not ECN fallback, so it can hammer 
> the living daylights out of routers. In addition it's quite difficult to 
> fully secure a php-using webserver on RHEL6 using stock RPMs)
>
>
> As for "Why use RHEL?" - Corporate policy. The scientific Linux 
> community standardised on redhat 20 years ago and they're unlikely to 
> change anytime soon despite arguments about other flavours being 
> "better" (Most of them are still using Fortran code rooted in f77 which 
> breaks if you attempt to update it, or IDL despite it being "simply awful")
>
>
> I spend an awful lot of time making things work in a RHEL environment 
> when it "just works" in Debianish ones, but the choice of environment 
> isn't my call.
>
> Everything has its positives and negatives - as Kern knows, I _really_ 
> want Bacula to support the IBM lin_tape driver because it works far 
> better with LTOs and changers - particularly in FC/SAS multipath 
> environments but Baculasystems won't do that because the st driver works 
> just fine(*) and the RHEL vs Debian arguments work in much the same way.

My comments for the above paragraph:

Yes, a lot of decisions in Bacula and elsewhere are tradeoffs.  In the
case of the IBM lin_tape driver, I am sure that what you write about it
being better is correct.  However there needs to be a technical person
familiar with Bacula to implement it, and that person needs access to
such a tape setup (probably onsite).  I am past the time when I am
available to develop major new "tricky" technology, so this would leave
either a community submission, or Bacula Systems to implement it.  It is
quite possible that Bacula Systems would implement this feature if it
turns out to be something that a number (3 or more) of important
customers want -- i.e. it is mainly a cost/benefit question for them.

Best regards,

Kern

>
>
> (*) For some values of "fine" - st and sg don't handle multipathing _at 
> all_ and you end up with door locking contention issues that have caused 
> us issues for 15 years
>
>
>
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Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux

[William Muriithi]

Hi Clark,

> Try the hardware compatibility list for the card on Redhat's website.  Second 
> choice, the manufacturer's website.  The issue is the driver.

Ya, its definitely driver issue.  I had checked RedHat hardware compatibility 
list but it only list servers, not PCI cards.  Essentially, it doesn't list a 
single HBA card.

> My question (rhetorical), why do you want to use an OS that is recently 
> released and still bleeding for a backup server?  I understand upgrade 
> headaches, but backup servers need to be rock solid.

Precisely, I know Centos 7 will be supported for a long time, but I also use 
this server to keep rsync backups so that user can recover their files easily 
without having to wait to a potentially off site tapes.

The hot data sit on a Virtual Data Optimizer device.  It does a great job, 
compressing and de-duplicating 84TB data into  21TB.  However, Virtual Data 
Optimizer has a bug that I experienced once and its not going to be fixed on 
RHEL 7.  When the physical device fill up before the logical device is full, 
you loose your data.  That make one be too conservative on RHEL 7, but its fine 
on RHEL 8, hence why I am adopting it early.

Regards,
William

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Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux

[William Muriithi]

Hi Arne,

> There appars to be some conflation of lsscsi and lspci here
>
> lsscsi will show attached SCSI targets
Agree 

> From the lsscsi -g output, it is showing two arrays, a tape drive, and
> a library changer, when the library is removed, it is expected that
> both the tape drive and the library will no longer show.
Precisely what I observed on Friday and something new I learned on Friday.  
Before then, I assumed it was the HBA card :( 

> To see if the HBA is detected, lspci is the command to run.
Its always detected, even when I know it wouldn't work.  So the detection alone 
isn't a full proof test.

>The lspci command cannot tell you if a card will or will not work with
> a tape library, only if the card is detected, and what driver it is
> using. lspci -v might be more useful than -nn

Ah, that is definitely helpful and seem to provide a better way to evaluate 
support.  Thanks a lot.  For anyone else who may have the same issue, this is 
what I found based on  Arne suggestion.  Look out for this line.  "Kernel 
driver in use"

(I have yet to plug the tape storage system as they are in different location, 
but will update if it works once the HBA is delivered.  I am a bit far 
confident though)

Supported:
[root@eng-backup01 ~]# sdiff -sb pci_device_no_storage__card2-2.txt  
pci_device_dell_storage__card2-23.txt
I/O behind bridge: None   | I/O 
behind bridge: d000-dfff [size=4K]
Memory behind bridge: None| Memory 
behind bridge: d400-d4ff [size=16M]
  >
  > 42:00.0 Serial 
Attached SCSI controller: LSI Logic / Symbios 
  > 
Subsystem: Dell 12Gbps HBA
  > Flags: 
bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 96, NU
  > I/O 
ports at dc00 [size=256]
  > Memory 
at d4ff (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=6
  > Memory 
at d4e0 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=1
  > 
Expansion ROM at d400 [disabled] [size=1M]
  > 
Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 3
  > 
Capabilities: [68] Express Endpoint, MSI 00
  > 
Capabilities: [a8] MSI: Enable- Count=1/1 Maskable+ 6
  > 
Capabilities: [c0] MSI-X: Enable+ Count=96 Masked-
  > 
Capabilities: [100] Advanced Error Reporting
  > 
Capabilities: [1e0] #19
  > 
Capabilities: [1c0] Power Budgeting 
  > 
Capabilities: [190] #16
  > 
Capabilities: [150] Single Root I/O Virtualization (S
  > 
Capabilities: [148] Alternative Routing-ID Interpreta
  > Kernel 
driver in use: mpt3sas
  > Kernel 
modules: mpt3sas

None supported:
[root@eng-backup01 ~]# sdiff -sb pci_device_no_storage__card2-2.txt  
pci_device_atto_card2-2.txt
Memory behind bridge: None| Memory 
behind bridge: d400-d4ff [size=16M]
  >
  > 42:00.0 Serial 
Attached SCSI controller: ATTO Technology, Inc
  > 
Subsystem: ATTO Technology, Inc. ExpressSAS H680
  > Flags: 
bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 15, NU
  > Memory 
at d4fc (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=6
  > Memory 
at d4fd (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=6
  > Memory 
at d4fe (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=6
  > Memory 
at 

Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux

[Dimitri Maziuk via Bacula-users]

On 10/21/19 11:00 AM, Alan Brown wrote:

> I spend an awful lot of time making things work in a RHEL environment 
> when it "just works" in Debianish ones, but the choice of environment 
> isn't my call.

It was a rhetorical question.

Although I do think the "scientific community" is beginning to wake up:
all the reproducibility whining and gnashing of tees, and singularity,
are getting us there. Slowly.

-- 
Dimitri Maziuk
Programmer/sysadmin
BioMagResBank, UW-Madison -- http://www.bmrb.wisc.edu



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Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux

[William Muriithi]

Hi Brown,

> Rhel8 isn't the issue. Dell PERC controllers ARE.
>
>
> https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pvaul/en/dell-perc-h710p-spec-sheet.pdf
>
>
>This is a MPTSAS raid card, not a HBA. It will _probably_ work OK for
>you if it's detecting the tape drive and tape library but experience
>shows they work better in full HBA mode.
Actually, I have two HBA card.  The MPTSAS is only connected to the disk array. 
 The tape storage plug on a different HBA card.  Look closely at the device 
number assigned by Linux kernel and you will notice its two HBA -  0:2  vs 1:0:2

>  [0:2:0:0]diskDELL PERC H710P   3.13  /dev/sda   /dev/sg0
>  [0:2:1:0]diskDELL PERC H710P   3.13  /dev/sdb   /dev/sg1
>  [1:0:2:0]tapeIBM  ULTRIUM-HH6  E4J1  /dev/st0   /dev/sg2
>  [1:0:2:1]mediumx QUANTUM  UHDL 0091  /dev/sch0  /dev/sg3 

Regards,
William

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Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux

[Alan Brown]

On 21/10/2019 16:13, Dimitri Maziuk via Bacula-users wrote:
> On 10/21/2019 9:14 AM, Clark, Patti via Bacula-users wrote:
> ...
>> My question (rhetorical), why do you want to use an OS that is 
>> recently released and still bleeding for a backup server?  I 
>> understand upgrade headaches, but backup servers need to be rock solid.
>
> Why use any RHEL > 6 for any kind of server?
>

Because RHEL6 is EOL and won't even install on newer hardware?

(EOS is some time off, but it's on life support mode now - bug/security 
fixes only and one of the more annoying "features" is that RHEL6 doesn't 
support ECN properly - it has ECN but not ECN fallback, so it can hammer 
the living daylights out of routers. In addition it's quite difficult to 
fully secure a php-using webserver on RHEL6 using stock RPMs)


As for "Why use RHEL?" - Corporate policy. The scientific Linux 
community standardised on redhat 20 years ago and they're unlikely to 
change anytime soon despite arguments about other flavours being 
"better" (Most of them are still using Fortran code rooted in f77 which 
breaks if you attempt to update it, or IDL despite it being "simply awful")


I spend an awful lot of time making things work in a RHEL environment 
when it "just works" in Debianish ones, but the choice of environment 
isn't my call.

Everything has its positives and negatives - as Kern knows, I _really_ 
want Bacula to support the IBM lin_tape driver because it works far 
better with LTOs and changers - particularly in FC/SAS multipath 
environments but Baculasystems won't do that because the st driver works 
just fine(*) and the RHEL vs Debian arguments work in much the same way.


(*) For some values of "fine" - st and sg don't handle multipathing _at 
all_ and you end up with door locking contention issues that have caused 
us issues for 15 years



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Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux

[shouldbe q931]

On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 4:11 PM Alan Brown  wrote:
>
> On 21/10/2019 15:14, Clark, Patti via Bacula-users wrote:
> > Try the hardware compatibility list for the card on Redhat's website.  
> > Second choice, the manufacturer's website.  The issue is the driver.
> >
> > My question (rhetorical), why do you want to use an OS that is recently 
> > released and still bleeding for a backup server?  I understand upgrade 
> > headaches, but backup servers need to be rock solid.
>
>
> Rhel8 isn't the issue. Dell PERC controllers ARE.
>
>
> https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pvaul/en/dell-perc-h710p-spec-sheet.pdf
>
>
> This is a MPTSAS raid card, not a HBA. It will _probably_ work OK for
> you if it's detecting the tape drive and tape library but experience
> shows they work better in full HBA mode.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Patti Clark
> > Sr. Linux System Administrator
> > Oak Ridge National Laboratory
> >
> > On 10/18/19, 8:28 PM, "William Muriithi"  wrote:
> >
> >  Hello,
> >
> >  Have any of you deployed RHEL 8/Centos 8 and would be willing to share 
> > what HBA card they are using?
> >
> >  Anyway, attempting to purchase HBA card and looking for a way to 
> > figure out what will work without having access to the tape library. Lets 
> > say that you don't have access to the tape device, but you have a server 
> > that have RHEL 8 installed.  You plug in a SAS HBA card in the slot and 
> > bring it up and them on the console, you want to check if the card is 
> > supported by the operating system.
> >
> >  What would one check?   This is what I have done and not viable test 
> > without the storage system:
> >
> >  [root@eng-backup02 ~]# lsscsi -g
> >  [0:2:0:0]diskDELL PERC H710P   3.13  /dev/sda   
> > /dev/sg0
> >  [0:2:1:0]diskDELL PERC H710P   3.13  /dev/sdb   
> > /dev/sg1
> >  [1:0:2:0]tapeIBM  ULTRIUM-HH6  E4J1  /dev/st0   
> > /dev/sg2
> >  [1:0:2:1]mediumx QUANTUM  UHDL 0091  /dev/sch0  
> > /dev/sg3
> >
> >  The /dev/sg2 and /dev/sg3 only show up with the tape library attached. 
> >   If I de-attach the tape, but leave the HBA card on the system, the device 
> > disappears.
> >
> >  I have also attempted this:
> >
> >  lspci -nn
> >
> >  The problem with this is even a HBA card that I know will not work 
> > when I attach the tape library is detected by the operating system and will 
> > be listed on lspci result.  So I can't ask someone remote to use that to 
> > separate supported to unsupported.
> >
> >  So what else can one do the achieve this objective?
> >
> >  Regards,
> >  William
> >

There appars to be some conflation of lsscsi and lspci here

lsscsi will show attached SCSI targets

From the lsscsi -g output, it is showing two arrays, a tape drive, and
a library changer, when the library is removed, it is expected that
both the tape drive and the library will no longer show.

To see if the HBA is detected, lspci is the command to run.

The lspci command cannot tell you if a card will or will not work with
a tape library, only if the card is detected, and what driver it is
using. lspci -v might be more useful than -nn

Any SAS HBA (as apposed to a RAID controller) _should_ work with any
SAS Tape Library.

Cheers

Arne


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Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux

[Dimitri Maziuk via Bacula-users]

On 10/21/2019 9:14 AM, Clark, Patti via Bacula-users wrote:
...

My question (rhetorical), why do you want to use an OS that is recently 
released and still bleeding for a backup server?  I understand upgrade 
headaches, but backup servers need to be rock solid.


Why use any RHEL > 6 for any kind of server?

Dima



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Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux

[Alan Brown]

On 21/10/2019 15:14, Clark, Patti via Bacula-users wrote:
> Try the hardware compatibility list for the card on Redhat's website.  Second 
> choice, the manufacturer's website.  The issue is the driver.
>
> My question (rhetorical), why do you want to use an OS that is recently 
> released and still bleeding for a backup server?  I understand upgrade 
> headaches, but backup servers need to be rock solid.


Rhel8 isn't the issue. Dell PERC controllers ARE.


https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pvaul/en/dell-perc-h710p-spec-sheet.pdf


This is a MPTSAS raid card, not a HBA. It will _probably_ work OK for 
you if it's detecting the tape drive and tape library but experience 
shows they work better in full HBA mode.




>
> Patti Clark
> Sr. Linux System Administrator
> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
>
> On 10/18/19, 8:28 PM, "William Muriithi"  wrote:
>
>  Hello,
>  
>  Have any of you deployed RHEL 8/Centos 8 and would be willing to share 
> what HBA card they are using?
>  
>  Anyway, attempting to purchase HBA card and looking for a way to figure 
> out what will work without having access to the tape library. Lets say that 
> you don't have access to the tape device, but you have a server that have 
> RHEL 8 installed.  You plug in a SAS HBA card in the slot and bring it up and 
> them on the console, you want to check if the card is supported by the 
> operating system.
>  
>  What would one check?   This is what I have done and not viable test 
> without the storage system:
>  
>  [root@eng-backup02 ~]# lsscsi -g
>  [0:2:0:0]diskDELL PERC H710P   3.13  /dev/sda   /dev/sg0
>  [0:2:1:0]diskDELL PERC H710P   3.13  /dev/sdb   /dev/sg1
>  [1:0:2:0]tapeIBM  ULTRIUM-HH6  E4J1  /dev/st0   /dev/sg2
>  [1:0:2:1]mediumx QUANTUM  UHDL 0091  /dev/sch0  /dev/sg3
>  
>  The /dev/sg2 and /dev/sg3 only show up with the tape library attached.   
> If I de-attach the tape, but leave the HBA card on the system, the device 
> disappears.
>  
>  I have also attempted this:
>  
>  lspci -nn
>  
>  The problem with this is even a HBA card that I know will not work when 
> I attach the tape library is detected by the operating system and will be 
> listed on lspci result.  So I can't ask someone remote to use that to 
> separate supported to unsupported.
>  
>  So what else can one do the achieve this objective?
>  
>  Regards,
>  William
>  
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Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux

[Clark, Patti via Bacula-users]

Try the hardware compatibility list for the card on Redhat's website.  Second 
choice, the manufacturer's website.  The issue is the driver.

My question (rhetorical), why do you want to use an OS that is recently 
released and still bleeding for a backup server?  I understand upgrade 
headaches, but backup servers need to be rock solid.

Patti Clark
Sr. Linux System Administrator
Oak Ridge National Laboratory

On 10/18/19, 8:28 PM, "William Muriithi"  wrote:

Hello,

Have any of you deployed RHEL 8/Centos 8 and would be willing to share what 
HBA card they are using?

Anyway, attempting to purchase HBA card and looking for a way to figure out 
what will work without having access to the tape library. Lets say that you 
don't have access to the tape device, but you have a server that have RHEL 8 
installed.  You plug in a SAS HBA card in the slot and bring it up and them on 
the console, you want to check if the card is supported by the operating system.

What would one check?   This is what I have done and not viable test 
without the storage system:

[root@eng-backup02 ~]# lsscsi -g
[0:2:0:0]diskDELL PERC H710P   3.13  /dev/sda   /dev/sg0 
[0:2:1:0]diskDELL PERC H710P   3.13  /dev/sdb   /dev/sg1 
[1:0:2:0]tapeIBM  ULTRIUM-HH6  E4J1  /dev/st0   /dev/sg2 
[1:0:2:1]mediumx QUANTUM  UHDL 0091  /dev/sch0  /dev/sg3

The /dev/sg2 and /dev/sg3 only show up with the tape library attached.   If 
I de-attach the tape, but leave the HBA card on the system, the device 
disappears.

I have also attempted this:

lspci -nn

The problem with this is even a HBA card that I know will not work when I 
attach the tape library is detected by the operating system and will be listed 
on lspci result.  So I can't ask someone remote to use that to separate 
supported to unsupported.  

So what else can one do the achieve this objective?

Regards,
William

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