RE: Temple Designs by Mason Remey
-Original Message- From: Brent Poirier My recollection is that when the Baha'is were choosing the design for the Wilmette Temple, Remey's and Bourgeois' designs tied. Remey then graciously withdrew his design. The Master stated that because of this act, Remey would design the Mashriqu'l-Adhkar for Mount Carmel. Remey then designed it, with input from the Guardian. ... I heard somewhere that two of the doors of the Shrine of the Bab -- I think five were named by the Master, 4 by the Guardian -- that two of the believers after whom doors of the Shrine of the Bab were named by the Master, broke the Covenant after the Master's passing. Shoghi Effendi did not change the names. So the Head of the Faith is guided to know when such a change would be meet and proper, and when it will do no harm. It is a sign of the profound respect the House of Justice gives to the decisions of the Master and the Guardian, that Remey's design will be built on Carmel. Dear Brent, Seems like an example of the workings of the beautiful spiritual principle enunciated by the Bab: O peoples of the world! Whatsoever ye have offered up in the way of the One True God, ye shall indeed find preserved by God, the Preserver, intact at God's Holy Gate. (Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 48) The evil things (misdeeds, breaking the Covenant) are rejected but the good things (humble services) remain, and our Lord continues to love us for our own sake, ever hoping for our return to faithfulness. To the Shah, Baha'u'llah wrote: They that surround thee love thee for their own sakes, whereas this Youth loveth thee for thine own sake, and hath had no desire except to draw thee nigh unto the seat of grace, and to turn thee toward the right-hand of justice. (Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 39) And referring to the contrast between the foul deeds of Mirza Yahya and the loving-kindness of Baha'u'llah, Shoghi Effendi wrote, And yet, in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, a forgiving Lord assures this same brother, this source of perversion, from whose own soul the winds of passion had risen and blown upon him, to fear not because of thy deeds, bids him return unto God, humble, submissive and lowly, and affirms that He will put away from thee thy sins, and that thy Lord is the Forgiving, the Mighty, the All-Merciful. (God Passes By, p. 169) In one of the fasting prayers revealed for us to recite, we each implore, Do Thou accept all that we have done for love of Thee, and for the sake of Thy pleasure, and all that we have left undone as a result of our subjection to our evil and corrupt desires. (Prayers and Meditations by Baha'u'llah, p. 84) --- Vaughn -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Temple Designs by Mason Remey
Has the House actually confirmed that the Remey design will be built? Given that the Master and Guardian approved Remey and his design before he broke the covenant, it would seem that the House would have grounds to alter the decision. Does it seem credible or consistent that either the Master or the Guardian would not revoke a responsibility and bounty bestowed upon a believer if he broke the covenant, especially if that believer rebelled against the House, an institution further developed and defined by the Master and the Guardian themselves? I don't remember where I learned this. My recollection is that when the Baha'is were choosing the design for the Wilmette Temple, Remey's and Bourgeois' designs tied. Remey then graciously withdrew his design. The Master stated that because of this act, Remey would design the Mashriqu'l-Adhkar for Mount Carmel. Remey then designed it, with input from the Guardian. Shoghi Effendi's secretary wrote on his behalf: The type of dome on such structures as Mason Remey's Temple for Haifa, the Shrine of the Báb and St. Peter's in Rome he considers beautiful in proportion and suitable. http://www.bahai.com/writings4/ShoghiEffendi/aunz/126-130.htm Remey did not like the Guardian interfering with his designs, but in my view the Guardian really enhanced Remey's designs, using his technical abilities as a tool. I heard somewhere that two of the doors of the Shrine of the Bab -- I think five were named by the Master, 4 by the Guardian -- that two of the believers after whom doors of the Shrine of the Bab were named by the Master, broke the Covenant after the Master's passing. Shoghi Effendi did not change the names. So the Head of the Faith is guided to know when such a change would be meet and proper, and when it will do no harm. It is a sign of the profound respect the House of Justice gives to the decisions of the Master and the Guardian, that Remey's design will be built on Carmel. My recollection is that a model of this design is in the central hall of the Mansion of Bahji. I can't point to any authorized statements on any of this, other than the quote above. Brent -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Temple Designs by Mason Remey
'Abdu'l-Baha permitted the covenant breaker to live at the mansion at Bahji, even paying their expenses. In contrast, Shoghi Effendi could not wait to get them out and bulldoze their shanty appendages. How do we view Shoghi Effendi's actions in light of 'Abdu'l-Baha's? It's my view that the Master took the approach He did, for reasons of wisdom. For years following the Ascension of Baha'u'llah, it was not known that the Covenant-breakers had separated themselves from `Abdu'l-Baha. The pilgrims would come on Pilgrimage, and while there, the Covenant-breakers would invite them to come to the Mansion. (The Master lived in `Akka until 1910, when He moved into His house in Haifa). There are references in Baha'i literature to the efforts the Covenant-breakers made, to turn the believers against `Abdu'l-Baha. (Memorials of the Faithful, p. 55) When the pilgrims would visit the Shrine of Baha'u'llah, the Covenant-breakers would interfere. I believe I read that Mirza Muhammad-`Ali would, with great ceremony, descend the stairway in a manner to try to impress the pilgrims. At this time, the rupture had not become open, and the Master kept it secret. He wrote in a Tablet to Mirza Abu'l-Fazl that when the Covenant-breakers wrote to the Baha'is around the world trying to get the believers to turn to them instead of to the Master, and when some of the mail was returned to the Post Office, it was returned to the Master, not to the Covenant-breakers. Through this means, He discovered their deeds. Since they had made the rupture open, He no longer concealed it. The Master was grievously ashamed of the conduct of the Aghsan. I believe that His support of them was calculated to keep them out of sight, at the Mansion, out of town. I do not think it was something He felt was His duty. Baha'u'llah had written in the Kitab-i-`Ahd that the Aghsan had no right to the property of the believers, and I understand this to mean that there was no right to be supported by the Fund or the Huquq'u'llah. I think it was discretionary with the Master. I do not know when the flow of funds stopped, but have always assumed that it stopped abruptly when Shoghi Effendi became the Guardian. By that time the British Mandate had been in place for three years, and things were opening up. British administration meant more freedom of expression for the Baha'is, protected by the government. Shoghi Effendi did not carry forward the Master's practice of attending Friday prayers at the mosque. No longer being administered by a Muslim government, it was now safe for the Cause to emerge into the public eye as a new Faith. Leroy Ioas was one of the sons of Charles Ioas, who served on the first Assembly in the West -- Chicago. He had met the Master when he was a boy. He became one of the pillars of the Faith in America, deepening the friends at the Geyserville School, educating them in the spirit and administration and history of the Cause. He was a born administrator, and I believe was the VP for Customer Relations for the Union Pacific Railroad. He brought these administrative skills to bear when he served on the National Teaching Committee. It was his encouragement and practical support that enabled a good many homefront and foreign pioneers to settle in their new homes. Then Shoghi Effendi brought Mr. Ioas to Haifa, to assist him in his work. Finally, finally, he had capable assistance. Mr. Ioas met with government officials, particularly in connection with building permits for the burgeoning developments on Carmel. When the three Hands -- Maxwell the architect, Giachery who supervised the marble and tile construction in Europe, and Ioas who was construction supervisor in the Holy Land -- acted on behalf of Shoghi Effendi in building the Shrine of the Bab, these three great Hands enabled Shoghi Effendi to reach his height. Shoghi Effendi loved the Shrine of the Bab so much, that when you sit in the seat he used to sit in, in the Pilgrim House in Haifa, you can see that it enabled him to see the dome of the Shrine of the Bab as he spoke with the friends, framed in the window. Mr. Ioas told Shoghi Effendi that there was an Israeli law that prohibited residences within a certain number of meters of a designated Holy Place. At mealtime Mr. Ioas mentioned this to Shoghi Effendi, and that perhaps this law could be used to evict the Covenant-breakers from the Most Holy Spot. Shoghi Effendi asked Mr. Ioas if he really thought he could do this, and Mr. Ioas said no, he did not think that he could. But if Shoghi Effendi told him to do so, he knew that the power of the Holy Spirit supported everything Shoghi Effendi wanted, and that if he instructed him to do so, it might be done. Shoghi Effendi then asked him to proceed. Shoghi Effendi told Mr. Ioas that everything he had done in his life, all his services to the Cause, including construction of the Shrine of the Bab (Imagine! Constructing the Shrine to One prophecied
Temple Designs by Mason Remey
In a past posting, Brent said: Further, since the Master had designated Remey as the architect for the Mashriqu'l-Adhkar to be built in the future on Mount Carmel, and since Shoghi Effendi approved the design, it will be built by the House of Justice, to carry out the decisions of the Master and the Guardian. Brent I cannot even imagine that in future a Baha'i House of Worship be built on Mount Carmel with name of Mason Remey on it as architect. His designs of the Baha'i Temples are very old fashion and ugly and as the time passes they become uglier and obsolete. If the Universal House of Justice was supposed to continue accepting of Mason Remey whatever was approved by Shoghi Effendi, then the House could accept Masons station as a Hand rather than accepting those ugly architectural designs. i.e., when the Will Testament allows Hands of the Cause who break the Covenant be expelled, then it appears that design of a building would be by far less important and can be dismissed much easier. He also designed the Baha'i Temple for Tehran. Now is anyone saying that Mason's design will be also built in Tehran in the future? -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Temple Designs by Mason Remey
Has the House actually confirmed that the Remey design will be built? Given that the Master and Guardian approved Remey and his design before he broke the covenant, it would seem that the House would have grounds to alter the decision. Does it seem credible or consistent that either the Master or the Guardian would not revoke a responsibility and bounty bestowed upon a believer if he broke the covenant, especially if that believer rebelled against the House, an institution further developed and defined by the Master and the Guardian themselves? 'Abdu'l-Baha permitted the covenant breaker to live at the mansion at Bahji, even paying their expenses. In contrast, Shoghi Effendi could not wait to get them out and bulldoze their shanty appendages. How do we view Shoghi Effendi's actions in light of 'Abdu'l-Baha's? Max Jasper wrote: In a past posting, Brent said: Further, since the Master had designated Remey as the architect for the Mashriqu'l-Adhkar to be built in the future on Mount Carmel, and since Shoghi Effendi approved the design, it will be built by the House of Justice, to carry out the decisions of the Master and the Guardian. Brent I cannot even imagine that in future a Baha'i House of Worship be built on Mount Carmel with name of Mason Remey on it as architect. -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Temple Designs by Mason Remey
Has the House actually confirmed that the Remey design will be built? Given that the Master and Guardian approved Remey and his design before he broke the covenant, it would seem that the House would have grounds to alter the decision. Does it seem credible or consistent that either the Master or the Guardian would not revoke a responsibility and bounty bestowed upon a believer if he broke the covenant, especially if that believer rebelled against the House, an institution further developed and defined by the Master and the Guardian themselves? I guess I don't see it in terms of responsibility or bounty. The design was approved, simple as that. Obviously, therefore, 'Abdu'l-Baha felt that Remey's design would be fine for the next thousand years. I don't see how Remey's becoming a CB has any relevance to this matter. We don't have grounds for using a different design, as we had grounds for pronouncing Remey a CB. Regards, David _ Download MSN Messenger @ http://messenger.xtramsn.co.nz - talk to family and friends overseas! -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Temple Designs by Mason Remey
Given what Susan was told and Mark's reasoning, I hope the House might at some point consider changing its decision about building the Remey design, but if not, I guess future generations will have to live with it, as strange as this seems. Susan Maneck wrote: [Marleen] Has the House actually confirmed that the Remey design will be built? Given that the Master and Guardian approved Remey and his design before he broke the covenant, it would seem that the House would have grounds to alter the decision. That is what I was told when I was on pilgrimage. Mark A. Foster wrote: Also, the Guardian's endorsement of the Temple design was a policy decision, not a textual interpretation. A number of the policies in effect during the ministry of the Guardian have been changed by the House of Justice. -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Temple Designs by Mason Remey
Would have grounds or would not have grounds? - Original Message - From: Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Baha'i Studies [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:30 AM Subject: Re: Temple Designs by Mason Remey Has the House actually confirmed that the Remey design will be built? Given that the Master and Guardian approved Remey and his design before he broke the covenant, it would seem that the House would have grounds to alter the decision. That is what I was told when I was on pilgrimage. -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public) -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: Temple Designs by Mason Remey
Would have grounds or would not have grounds? Dear Richard, I was told that Mason Remey's plan for the Haifa Temple *would* be used. warmest, Susan -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
