Re: Pup's first meaty bone...not a great experience
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, she enjoyed it all right. Too much so. I gave it to her outside in the yard, and let her gnaw on it for a bit. She loved it. After about 6-7 minutes, I decided it was time to stop the chewing (didn't want her ingesting too much fat/rich meat so as to upset her tummy). I approched her to take away the bone, and she started growling at me when I got to be about 1 foot away from her! A very nasty sounding growl at that! (no teeth baring, just vocalizations) It got louder as i moved my hand toward the bone. Scary even. So i did the only thing i could think of to get the bone away from her ...i went into the house and cut a nice chunk of cheese. I held that in front of her nose, and she eventually went for it. When she did, i grabbed the bone. Ok, first off, I must say that while this was a scary moment, you did the right thing by not pouncing on your dog and trying to force her to give over the bone. Even my most Omega bitch can and will fight the Alpha dog over something like a bone or food. Some people will tell you that if your dog is possession protective you have to do some sort of major dominance attack--alpha roll over, aggressive eye contact, shaking the dog by the scruff, etc. I don't do that at all. WE are the primates, the ones WITH the logic, and we should use our minds, not our strength, to socialize our dogs and bend them to our wills. What you want to do now is train your dog to hand over possessions, and you do this by having the dog swap one item for another on command. Start with something the dog likes but is not overly attached to--chew toy, soda bottle, whatever. As the dog is engrossed in the item, approach with something *spectacular* that the dog will really want: smelly cheese, meat, whatever. Give your dog the command (swap, give it, hand it over, drop, whatever you want to use) and then take the item and hand over the treat (take the item, click and treat if you do clicker training). Lather, rinse repeat. Continue this and continue upping the stakes, with better and better items getting swapped. I also incorporated coming to me, doing a sit stay, and waiting for the treat so my dog does not have to see the better treat in my hand in order to drop the contraband or the raw bone or whatever. Might I suggest some reading? Anything by Jean Donaldson is good, but the one I have and love the most is The Culture Clash which is all about how to turn out a good citizen canine. Try not to feel bad or get too hung up on your girl growling at you. Dogs growl, even at their best canine pals. Your pup is at an age where she is trying on some bossy behavior, so now is the time to start giving her lots of rewards for doing what you want, so you cultivate in her a desire to please. I suggest a Nothing In Life Is Free approach. She wants dinner? She does a sit-stay until released. She wants out? She heels around the room first. She wants a toy? First she can do some tricks. Anything to have her find complying with your commands is fun and rewarding and gets her what she wants in the long run will help her turn out just fine. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/2003
Re: Suspicious advertising?
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] But finally to my question. Is this normal to see these things within the breed? Am I right in assuming that these are unscrupulous breeders? And can anything be done? Sad to say, it is getting more and more common. Not supporting these unscrupulous or simply ignorant (in the real sense of the word--not knowing any better) people is the best approach. What about joining you local Berner club and volunteering with rescue? As a person with several breeds, I will say Berner rescue still has it easy compared to my other breeds . . . but I fear this is changing with the rising popularity of the breed and the increase in imports which have ended up in BYB programs and puppy mills. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/2003
Re: Environmental allergies
Steroids helped Lliira the Pyr girl, who has had horrible allergies. Mic the Berner boy has medium allergies. We did blood testing and put Lliira on the desensitizing shots. I know there is some question among vets as to whether they make a difference BUT, after one year of shots Lliira was significantly less miserable during allergy season (she did not denude herself of hair for the first time, nor did she keep us awake all night scratching and chewing and being horrible uncomfortable). This is the second year; right now, she is obviously having some allergy responses but for the first time she is less obviously symptomatic than Mic. We still give her Benadryl and might move on to something from the vet as well--but even with strong medicine she was never able to sleep properly and ripping all her hair out itching in the past. Now she has problems but with the shots the meds seem to be more effective in helping her. One of my horses went through the shots as well--he went from next door to the knackers to being able to work year round over the course of about 4 yrs. The shots are not instantaneous, but for the horse every year was better than the prior one. So far that seems true for Lliira as well. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.509 / Virus Database: 306 - Release Date: 8/12/2003
Re: Teething question
- Original Message - From: Janice Parky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do dogs drool more when they are teething the way human babies do? The thought just occurred to me. Or, am I destined to have that lovely Berner Patina on my floors forever Some do, some don't. Two of my four most recent puppies were drooling more during teething. Of course, the rock hard frozen old bagels we used as teething rings probably helped that . . . Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.509 / Virus Database: 306 - Release Date: 8/12/2003
Re: snapping in puppies
- Original Message - From: Andie Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] She has talked to the breeder and she offered to take the dog back and refun their money, but I hate to think that a solution that drastic is called for. Has anyone had any experience with this? I strongly recommend a nothing in life is for free approach to training, with positive rewards as the basis of the training. Jean Donaldson's The Culture Clash is a very readable place to start; also, the pup and people should enroll in a good obedience school ASAP. This might work out just fine, but, if the family is inexperienced or laid back and inclined to let things slide instead of being very firm and consistent all the time in training, then this might not be the pup for them. He sounds like a very dominant fellow in need of a firm, fair, and consistent owner. He might do well in a working home with someone who wants to give him a job to do and who will expect him to do it well. It is not a terrible thing to realize you need a different personality puppy--something like my Lliira, who would be OK with inconsistent training and expectations. In the big picture, if these folks don't have enough experience or innate alpha-ness to really lead this bossy and apparently at least somewhat aggressive puppy, they are better off with a different personality pup and HE is better off in a firmer home environment. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 7/24/2003
Bring me . . . a SOCK
We need some levity here. Micawber the Berner boy has been bouncing along, doing just fine. Currently he is standing outside the office barking at me because I have the baby gate up so he can't get in. The purpose is not to keep Mic out, but Nessie the Newfie, who is recovering from her second surgery from her double ACL rupture this winter, IN. Does anyone else have a Berner who has to pick something up and hold it in order to greet them? What Mic really wants is a sock. If he can't get a sock, he'll get a shoe. And if he can't get either of those things he'll go trash my bed and carry down some bedclothes. So I leave him some socks out to grab and carry when I come home. How sad is THAT, I ask you!!! Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 7/24/2003
Re: more on bitches
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] So the uterus is not rested or spared or saved by skipping a cycle. The only difference to the uterus is whether there are puppies in it. If we look at this from a non-anthopomorphic viewpoint, it is healthier for the bitch, and healthier for the uterus - if one wishes to have a bitch produce well - to breed her back to back until you no longer wish to have puppies from her. I know this sounds like heresy to some folks, and I am *not* advocating turning every breeding program in to a puppy mill, so let's not carried away here. That's really interesting information! I know a lot more about horse breeding than any other kind. :-) In horses, it is most common to breed a mare on either her foal heat (7-10 days after foaling) or the one following, which is about one month post foaling. The gestation is 11 months, so you have one a year. I know most professional broodmares are basically bred each year--some carry on with being a broodmare well into their 20s. They do not have a shorter average lifespan than working horses and pasture potatoes. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/2003
Re: fat berners
All this talk of fat Berners has me chuckling a little--Mic is a bone rack. He's a light eater and high energy and basically is just a coiled ball of muscle and fuzz. He weighs about 98 lbs and could use another 10 lbs before he'd even hit an average weight for his frame. He's got a knobby backbone, you can feel every rib without trying, and he tucks up at the end of his ribcage. My vet says he looks thin on an x-ray, organs all high and tight I guess. If he were a smooth coated dog I'm sure people would be calling the ASPCA on me. He gets treats, regular meals, and high cal snacks, and he's almost 5 yrs old now. Actually, he's like my skinny spouse, who eats like a trash compactor and can still get into his high school suit and jeans. The man weighs less than Nessie the Newfie! I was making fun of him recently because he can now were a waist band size larger jeans than he used to . . . he's all the way up to a 28. Gack. Me, I'm like Cassie the Rescue Pyr. Hand me a salad and a roll and I can live for a month on it. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/2003
Re: another Burmese story
- Original Message - From: Becky Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 8:02 AM Subject: RE: another Burmese story I'm not reptile expert - but according the 'ask Jeeves.com the Burmese Python has a golden yellow beauty with eyes like fire that I've never been close enough to tell, but I think I'll believe Jeeves. Burmese Pythons are *beautiful* (and large!) snakes. Fabulous coloration. I used to have one . . . along with the Boa Constrictor, Rainbow Boa, and Ball Python. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/2003
Re: Special dog needs a special home
This is not intended as a critique of any individual in rescue or any specific club. This is intended to spark discussion about dog placement and rescue practices in general. - Original Message - massive snip Jonah's most difficult issue is resource guarding. He will guard his food bowl, treats, toys and random objects that come in his space. For this reason we will not be placing him in a home with children or where children will visit frequently. This is a problem that can be worked with but after many years of practice cannot be expected to disappear overnight. Jonah has never bitten anyone but is very willing to growl and protect what he believes is his. See, this sort of thing worries me. In my Pyr rescue, a dog still exhibiting this level of difficulty would never in a million years be placed. I stagger to think about the liability of this dog biting someone and it coming back to the club rescue. I know the post says he has never bitten anyone, but how do we know? If there is one thing I have learned about rescue it is that many, many owners lie through their little teeth about aggression. One of my fosters attacked my vet in the middle of a routine exam; another one of my club members was hospitalized after an incident with an unneutered and undersocialized male. Now, most of the dogs who come through rescue are remarkably trouble free in spite of awful lives and puppy mill origins. I think we have a temperament problem about once every 25 dogs or so, and given their origins this is impressively low. How long has this dog been in foster care? Many dogs do not show their true colors until they've been 1-3 months in a home. Official Akita rescue has a 3 month policy for fostering before any dog is allowed to be placed because territory aggression can take about that long to really develop. My local Newf club requires a month of fostering, and Newfs are a notoriously mild-tempered dog, although we have had some put down due to aggression issues. My Newf club in general seems less tolerant of aggression issues than my Pyr club. Making choices like this on individual dogs is always hard--I've been a party to recommending euthanasia with two of my foster dogs, one of which I had worked with extensively for some time. Currently the demand for Berners--even part breds and problems--is high enough to ensure that someone, somewhere who is knowledgeable enough not to be eaten by their adoptee will take this type of dog in. *However* this level of demand is not going to be around forever, and the numbers of Berners with temperament issues that come into rescue seems a higher percentage than the numbers of dogs with temperament issues coming into Newf and Pyr rescue, based on my anecdotal evidence. And the liability of placing a dog like this is another nagging concern. Right now Pyr rescue has to advertise and seek potential homes. Many are first time dog owners or people who have only 'mellow pet level' interest in dogs. They want them, love them, live with them in the home and not on chains, but are not just into training, discussion, and learning about history and behavior. Placing the temperamentally unsound dog in homes like these is a recipe for disaster--and other than people already into the club and breed, often that is all we have in terms of available homes. Just trying to get some thoughts and discussion on making tough calls in rescue. Berner rescue is still in a very cushy position compared to many other breed rescues. Part of the thinking of folks in the trenches needs to be what to do when the steady demand for rescue dogs becomes less. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/2003
Re: Sick puppy...
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was asked by someone for an opnion and I thought I needed to ask all you you. A friend of mine has a new puppy. Last Saturday, they took their new puppy to the vet for an exam and the puppy had a swollen lymph gland near one of his rear legs. The vet checked the pup's temperature, normal. The puppy is about 12 weeks old. The vet, against my personal ethics, vaccinated the puppy for not one but two things, one of which was Lyme. First of all I do not agree with the use of the Lyme vaccine and I told my friend as much, but she sent her husband who didn't know better and he went by the vet's recommendation. Why do you have a problem with the Lyme vaccination? The efficacy is not fabulous, although it seems to offer some protection, and to the best of my knowledge it does not have any more chance of ill effects that any other vaccination which has been tested and used extensivly. I've had four dogs vaccinated and two not vaccinated; the vaccinated dogs have not had Lyme, although *both* unvaccinated dogs have had it. I kick myself daily for not getting the Lyme vaccination for Nessie, as it contributed not only to her illness with the Lyme but her ACL double ruptures. Second of all, I would not have vaccinated the puppy at all with a swollen gland issue going one. Post vaccinations, the gland became more swollen, obviously aggrivated by them. Well, this is a little bit of a logic fallacy--you can't know if the gland was starting to swell and continued on its course of swelling irregardless of the vaccinations or if the swelling was indeed aggrivated by the shots. That said, I think I personally would hold off having a puppy vaccinated which was showing signs of potential illness. My question is, what could be the cause of the lymph node swelling. Are there other things besides cancer? Yes, many things can cause a lymph node to swell. Sometimes they get infected, sometimes it is part of an immune response to an illness brewing. Cancer in a 12 week old puppy would be quite unusual but not impossible. A link to a typical puppy ailment is more likely. Should he be tested right away for that or is there anything else, bloodwork for instance, that should be done? Just to give a more clear picture, as of last night the puppy is now on pain killers (bad for kidneys, but helping, as he was very sore) and some form of antibiotics for 2 weeks. The swelling has gone down and the puppy seems to be feeling better, but I am still not convinced. Convinced of what? I don't know quite what you mean. Detecting cancer is often a huge PITA and not very conclusive unless you find something really clear on a biopsy. With no actual tumor, you have not got much to go on. Blood work is always a good starting point for seeing if the body is out of balance or fighting something. The fact that the swelling is reducing is a good sign--it probably is linked to a round with a common minor ailment, or the gland iteself might have had a mild infection. That happened to me once with one of my lymph glands and it hurt like h*** and was very sore indeed, but it was an isolated thing and not connected to any larger problem. Thanks in advance for suggestions. Welcome. Let us know how the puppy gets on. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/2003
Re: Puppy and bone
I have four currently. I just separate them so they have private time with high value things like bones and meals. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/2003
Re: Help with pack issues
1) Feed separately. NO high value food or treat items in the mixed pack. Period. 2) If it is a lot of talk and noise, I step back. If it is a true dogfight, I break it up. 3) Not every male dog can tolerate other males or new males or young males in his space--there are no male dog visitors allowed at my house, no male fosters. We can meet other males just fine off the home turf. You may just need to keep them separated for the summer. A pain, but safer for all. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/2003
Re: keeping cool
If your pup does not seem to 'get' the idea of a cool bed, sometimes a thin cotton sheet will help with a more familiar texture. Don't make a big deal out of it, maybe toss some treats on there. My guys took a little to figure it out and then loved them. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/2003
Re: Puppy Weight Gain Question
- Original Message - From: eve berman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anyone have any thoughts or specific concerns we should be looking for? We don't need a giant behemoth of a Berner but do not want to starve our little guy or miss some condition that could otherwise be identified and corrected. They all grow in their own groove. I would not worry at all. They seem to go out and then up and out and then up. Mic grew like a house on fire until 8 months and crashed to a halt. He weighs at 4 yrs old about 10 lbs more than he did at 8 months; he always outweighed our Pyr, Lliira, by 10-15 pounds each equivalent month in their ages. They are now less than 6 lbs apart as adults. Nessie the Newfie was about 10 lbs heavier than Mic at each equivalent month until 8 months when he stopped and she kept going; now at 3 she outweighs him by 50 lbs! Mic is smaller than both his mother and father in weight. (105 and 120). Lliira is almost her dad's size and quite a bit bigger than mom. Nessie is just about exactly mom's weight and 30 lbs smaller than dad (as well she should be!). Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/2003
Re: Cat Urine
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] My husband, who works in the nuclear industry, says there is only one thing with a longer half life than platonium. You guessed it. Anyway, I find the extra strength Febreeze does a pretty good job. Nature's Miracle now has, as well as the general 'pet odor enzyme destroyer,' a Nature's Miracle Just for Cats. It is amazing stuff. Sometimes it takes more than one application, but, I had an area in my guest room that my cats sneaked in and used as a back-up toilet. It was fairly new carpet. After several go-arounds with the NMfC, a person could lie on the floor with her nose in the spot and smell nothing but carpet smell, no cat pee smell at all. Not only that, the cats couldn't find the smell either, and that was the end of the problem. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003
Re: what age do puppies start drooling?
- Original Message - From: Julie E. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm new to the list. I am considering whether the berner is the right breed for our family. I have researched the dogs and have learned that SOME drool. If a dog is going to be a drooler, at what age does this typically start? Can this trait be seen in the pups? For the dogs that are droolers, how bad is it? I hear it is not as heavy as St. Bernards, but I am imagining more than our golden retriever who shares his latest drink with us? Even the droolingist Berners I've met are *nothing* on Nessie the Newfie bitch. My rescue Pyr, Cassie, is a moderate drooler when worried; Mic the Berner boy and Lliira the Pyr girl are not droolers. Nessie was throwing spit *everywhere* by 4 months of age. It's like egg whites, man. Takes the varnish off my woodwork (I'm not kidding!). Mic is similar to a Goldie in drool factor; I don't think many Berners are big time droolers. Look at mom and especially dad--that should show you what your chances are. And if the dog does drool . . . trust me, you can get used to anything! Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003
Re: Drooling Thanks, another ?
- Original Message - From: Julie E. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do you all know of a tendency for the Berner to be a bit insecure like what my friend described? In my experience, many Berners are insecure, or require lots of socialization. That does not mean they cannot be left out in a safely fenced yard while people are at work, though. I have a dog door, which is the best of all worlds. I don't know how I lived without it, honesely. By the way, the dog I am looking into in a cross the bitch is a Great Pyrenees. (just a coincidence with my friend's neighbor-they're not the parents) Interesting cross. Pyrs tend to be territorial, same-sex dog aggressive, confident, good with small dogs/children/things perceived as flock. They are also difficult to motivate in training, have low prey drives, high pain tolerance, great independence, and are often very low key dogs who are not demanding. My Pyrs will happily hang out in the yard for *hours* and they don't melt down when left while we are gone for a day trip. They don't follow me from room to room. They do sleep in our bedroom, come for pats, have good house manners, and act generally loving. My Berner (and Newf) follow me constantly. If I am in the house, they are in the house. As I type, Mic the Berner boy is under the desk and Nessie the Newfie is behind the chair. Lliira the Pyr is sleeping in the open crate downstairs and Cassie the Pyr just went outside. Mic and Nessie are very demanding about attention. They have high prey drives and are easy to motivate in training. They are extremely focused on their people. Nessie has no dog aggression; Mic has mild territory aggression. You might get the best of both worlds with a Berner-Pyr cross, or, you might not! I'd meet the parents if at all possible, see how they are temperament-wise. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003
Re: Puppy Issues
- Original Message - From: Kenneth L Babcock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ok berner experts as a I am a berner in waiting my wife has a concern that hopefully someone can respond to? Her concern is allowable length of time a new puppy can be left at home alone? That is in the event she chooses to go shopping with the girls or perhaps an occasional day trip. I would say age in months plus one= approximate number of hours. This assumes that this is not an always sort of thing--for instance, with Micawber I had someone come at lunch and walk him on my longer days at work, so when he was 3 months he would be left no more than 4 hours, and at four months no more than 5 hours, etc. Obviously this rule of thumb starts to break down at some point, and individual puppies may have more specialized needs (anxiety, bladder control not developing on the average, etc). This also only works if you do a good long attention-giving session before leaving (tired puppies are good puppies). So the pup should have been played with, fed, short nap, played with/walked, then crated with a good treat. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/2003
Re: Laying down to eat
- Original Message - From: _Adam Conn [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've been meaning to ask this for months. Bison, since day one, has always eaten his meals laying down. Every now and then, he'll start from the standing position, but will always finish flat on the floor. He shows no sign of changing this behavior. Any one else have a roman eater? Lliira the Pyr girl. Once in a while Nessie the Newfie. -- Eileen Morgan March 30th Clinic Information: http://www.enter.net/~edlehman/USEAAR2.html The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/2003
Re: Raised Diners
- Original Message - From: carolburke5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oh thank goodness. Now that I have had two days of guilt (using a raised feeder), there is always someone out there who can make you feel better...we had a St. Bernard in the late 70's who ate off the floor and ended up surviving a bloat with surgery...I have had the berners with raised food dishes, no problems (knock on wood also).every time I hear about the raised food dish debate, it makes me crazybut as of tonight I am still using raised feeders. I've said it before and I will say it again--the great majority of dogs are not going to bloat no matter what they are fed, where they are fed it, and how high they are fed it. That said, if you can understand the risk factors and work to minimize them, you most certainly should. Temperament, stress, age, first degree relatives, type of food given, some of the ingredients if moistened, conformation--all these play a part. Raising the dish plays a bigger part than anyone ever suspected before the study (Glickman et al certainly had no idea they would demonstrate that the higher the dish, the greater the risk! They expected this to either help or make no difference either way). If you've fed off raised dishes for 30 years, then the other factors (such as being deeper and narrower than the average for the breed, for instance) are working in your favor. In my opinion it certainly isn't simply because you've raised your dishes -- it is in *spite* of your raised dishes. -- Eileen Morgan March 30th Clinic Information: http://www.enter.net/~edlehman/USEAAR2.html The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/2003
Re: Raised Diners
- Original Message - From: Karen [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would like to know the rationale behind the change in information. A massive study was done--the first and largest of its kind as I recall--and that has significantly changed what we know about bloat. The web site below explains the study and gives results. http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/bloat.htm -- Eileen Morgan March 30th Clinic Information: http://www.enter.net/~edlehman/USEAAR2.html The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/2003
Re: Raised Diners
- Original Message - From: Rita [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know the standard answer to the raised food bowl issue is to quote the Purdue study. But can anyone tell me, are there any other known studies that have either contradicted or confirmed the results at Purdue? Is Purdue the only known study done, or just the latest, or the most respected? The Purdue study is huge, and it is the only prospective study which has been done--it has been tracking a large number of dogs over many years and recording info on those dogs. In other words, the dogs have not bloated at the time they enter the study, and the study explores which dogs bloat and examines how this relates to various factors. All the other studies done are retrospective, where dogs have already bloated and then they look back and try and figure out why. My pals in the science field (I work in a university setting) looked at the parameters of the study and all the technical side of how the information was generated and analyzed and told me that it looked like an excellent study--well planned, well conducted, good number crunching. So I place my trust in that rather than people's best guesses. Remember, most dogs are not going to bloat no matter how they are managed, because the % of dogs which bloat is small. If you know your risk factors, you can really put the odds in your favor. I almost lost my beloved Akita (now departed from age) to bloat and one of my dogs is high risk due to a first degree relative dying from bloat (in spite of fast intervention and surgery). If you are in the small % that bloats, the fact that it is not hugely common is no comfort at all. I follow the advice from Purdue. -- Eileen Morgan March 30th Clinic Information: http://www.enter.net/~edlehman/USEAAR2.html The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/2003
Re: Sensitive ear flaps!
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 9:22 AM Subject: Re: Sensitive ear flaps! Hi I have a 3 year old male berner, Mason, he is the BEST dog, he is ever present and so loyal, he loves us all the same in his own way. My questions is this, his ear flaps seem to be very sensetive, he can't stand when we touch them, any thoughts on this? Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks Has he been checked for ear infections or parasites like mites? Eileen Morgan March 30th Clinic Information: http://www.enter.net/~edlehman/USEAAR2.html The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.461 / Virus Database: 260 - Release Date: 3/10/2003
Re: Miami Herald, Free to good home
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Today for some reason I read the classified pet section of the Miami Herald. My eyes went right to the words Bernese Mountain Dog free to good home. What? I thought I was seeing things. Any dog breed can be thrown away. I called the number a few times leaving messages each time. No call back yet. Who would give up their beloved berner and who would advertise it? Well, sometimes it is for no good reason--the person bought a dog and isn't allowed to have it on their apartment lease, for instance. Or they were not ready for shedding, drooling, walking needs, etc. Or they got the dog on impulse and it does not fit their lifestyle. Maybe they are a crummy trainer and the dog has behavior issues because of that. Or the dog might be fearful, aggressive, destructive, or have serious separation anxiety. The person might be in the reserves and just been called up and not have friends or family who can take the dog. The person may have suffered health or financial crisis and not be able to care for the dog. I try hard to be open minded about people trying to find a new home for their dogs. Sometimes these people are throw away jerks and sometimes they are good people who have come to a difficult decision because life just isn't always fair. I'd like to think that will never be me but if I lost my home, I would be pretty darn hard pressed to keep four large dogs, ya know? -- Eileen Morgan March 30th Clinic Information: http://www.enter.net/~edlehman/USEAAR2.html The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.461 / Virus Database: 260 - Release Date: 3/10/2003
Puppy Stuff
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1) Your all time favorite puppy and/or training books Jean Donaldson, The Culture Clash. Karen Pryor, Don't Shoot the Dog. 2) Also, a funny question, out of curiosity, I was wondering how you all started out with sleeping arrangements. Crate in our room. Eileen Morgan March 30th Clinic Information: http://www.enter.net/~edlehman/USEAAR2.html The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.458 / Virus Database: 257 - Release Date: 2/24/2003
Re: Whats so special?
- Original Message - From: Kenneth L Babcock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Playing devils advocate, just what is so special about a Bernese Mountain Dog? My sisters Golden provided tons of love and affection. What do Berners have that Goldens or other breeds don't have? In my opinion, which is of course strictly my own, my Berner is not more special than my Pyrs, my Newf, my beloved departed Akita and Collies. They are ALL special in their own ways, and have all brought me joy, heartache, headaches, wonderful afternoons, quiet evenings, major romps, strolls through nature, the pleasure of observing and living with another, compatible species. I am a Working Breed Rainbow person. :-) I do not think Berners are somehow a better breed than any other breed I've lived with. I love my Micawber, and I really enjoyed the company of the dozen or so Berners I knew before I got Mic, and I will probably have a Berner again once Mic has left me. But I will also welcome other breeds into my home, each being appreciated for their own special breed traits as well as the general dog-ness which they all share. By the by, on all three of my breed lists I have seen the same behavior discussed as being a specific cute small trait of each breed. =8-0 -- Eileen Morgan March 30th Clinic Information: http://www.enter.net/~edlehman/USEAAR2.html The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.458 / Virus Database: 257 - Release Date: 2/24/2003
Re: When to switch to adult food?
- Original Message - From: Hildy F. [EMAIL PROTECTED] My vet recommends to switch to adult food soon. My Berner pup Bijou is now 5 month old and eats 3 times a day Eukanuba puppy food. Isn't the switch a bit early, since Bijou is still growing. What you guys think? Also when did you guys switch to 2 feedings a day? I didn't feed any puppy food to my current three. I put them on an all-life cycle premium quality dog kibble right from the start (Solid Gold, Innova, or California Natural, depending on the dog--Mic as a puppy had a goofy digestive tract, but the girls ate all without any issues). I made that choice as a riding pal of mine when I lived in Ithaca was a research vet with Cornell and she was working in feeds and told me all-life cycle was better than puppy kibble. I went to two feedings a day when the dog in question slowed down in eating demand--ie, not snarfing up food in a nano second. It was different for each puppy. Nessie the Newfie was rail thin and always starving no matter how much we fed her; Lliira the Pyr was slender and not interested in eating much, so we went to less feedings in a hurry with her; Mic the Berner boy slowed way down around 8 months or so. -- Eileen Morgan March 30th Clinic Information: http://www.enter.net/~edlehman/USEAAR2.html The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.458 / Virus Database: 257 - Release Date: 2/24/2003
Re: To Berner or not to Berner??
-- - Original Message - From: Kenneth L Babcock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Shedding/ Get a new vacum. Maybe two. is my home large enough/ Size is less of an issue than clutter (think of that tail--it is a coffee table sweeper). And a bored Berner is a destructive dog; I am not walking my crew right now because one of my dogs has a significant lameness and she gets way too whipped up if I take the others out, which aggrevates her problem. In the last two weeks Mic the Berner boy has eaten my tax papers, trashed a pillow, dismembered an innocent baggie all over the living room floor, and started picking fights with his sister Cassie the Rescue Pyr. I am doing short obedience routines with him, and playing strenuous games like tug of war, and he has acess 24/7 to the fenced yard . . . but he is highly active and energetic and he wants MORE activity. temperment/ Varies quite a lot. Shyness and sharp-shyness (which leads to fear aggression) is more common in this breed than a casual contact level person might think; we also have some dogs which harken back to the farmyard guardian days who exhibit some territorial aggression. This might not be the most common temperment in this breed, but it is a substantial sub-set and you should exercise caution when finding the right breeder for you. Make sure you meet plenty of relatives and that they are the temperment you want. barking/ Mic is not the biggest barker in my house (I have Great Pyrenees for that!) but what he (and many other Berners) will do is wait until you are trying to pay attention to some task or program and then bark at you for attention. We practice techniques like walking away, refusing to look at him, and completely ignoring him when he does this sort of thing and it helps, but my g** he is persistent. I'm told the berners are similar in temperment to the Golden? I think Goldies in general are a little softer and easier in the personality department. Obviously, temperments vary from dog to dog. However, something about the Working breeds makes them a little harder to live with if they do not have a job to do. I know I can't slack off with giving Mic things to do for me or there is simply no living with him. Think, Type A person. There are other Berners, like my friend Kathy's Max, who will tolerate anything and everything and be extremely mellow. Again, meet the family and that will help; Mic is not very like his mother, auntie and older sibling that I met--he is like a rather difficult grandparent. I think Berners are a little more needy than Goldies. They really want to be all over their people, all the time. You have not talked about health at all. That is a *very* important consideration, especially given the amount of cancer in this breed. You should make sure your breeder does some sort of hip and elbow certification for displaysia, and it should be good or excellent in at least one, preferably both, parents. She should be having CERF for the eyes. I strongly recommend heart checks and also a check for Von Willibrand's disease. She should be able to tell you what she is trying to accomplish with her litter. She should be active in the National or local club. She should have someone other than herself assessing the quality of her dogs to avoid kennel blindness, preferably by showing the dogs to their Championships in conformation and perhaps also some sort of performance, such as drafting or obedience. Eileen Morgan March 30th Clinic Information: http://www.enter.net/~edlehman/USEAAR2.html The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.458 / Virus Database: 257 - Release Date: 2/24/2003
collars
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] What would be the best collar for her to be able to wear on a permanent basis ? Would a choke chain be ok to wear during day and then at walk time put on her normal collar ? Not a choke. Imagine if she got the ring hung up on something while messing about. Leather buckle collars are the way to go in my opinion, if you want to keep a collar on always. I'd get rolled leather, not flat, since that won't break the hair. -- Eileen Morgan March 30th Clinic Information: http://www.enter.net/~edlehman/USEAAR2.html The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.458 / Virus Database: 257 - Release Date: 2/24/2003
Re: Accidental breeding between litter mates
My beloved Akita, Rohan, crossed the bridge at an average age for his breed. He was the result of a full brother-sister breeding (dad ate through an airline crate, escaped the locked garage the airline crate was in by breaking the glass and jumping through a tiny window six feet up, went over two six foot chain link fences and bred his sister. A determined male dog can often find a way. There were 12 puppies in the litter; all survived. Three went on to show conformation successfully; two finished and were used for breeding (crossed out a little more than average to counter-act the inbreeding a bit, I think). My dog had HD, but the five litter mates I know about had good hips. He had flea allergies, mild, easily controlled through use of Frontline/Advantage. He bloated at about seven, survived the surgery and lived another two years, about average for an Akita. I would say, overall, he was not particularly more or less healthy than many other dogs I've known; more healthy than one of my collies, less than the other, for instance. My current batch of dogs are too young to compare meaningfully yet. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.455 / Virus Database: 255 - Release Date: 2/13/2003
Re: She Won't Eat!
The first person to call when a dog radically alters a normal eating pattern is your vet. If the dog checks out fine at the vet, then start wondering about behavioral causes. However, when a good eater changes habits overnight, look to health first. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.455 / Virus Database: 255 - Release Date: 2/13/2003
Re: Question about Dog Call Names
- Original Message - From: Cindy Schaumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] I can't find the email that started all of the chat about Dogs call names, so I'm not sure if the answer to my question lies there or not. However, I have always been curious about how a dog is supposed to be named. So, what is involved in the name? What does Ch. mean? What does what do you mean by c litter or p litter. Good questions! In some specific breeds with some animals (certain horse registries, for instance) different years require names that start with a specific letter. They go through the alphabet and roll over to the beginning again. This helps make clear how old the horse is by breed, and reduces problems with name overlaps (sort of like how I know about 100 Newfs and Pyrs named some variety of Bear.). Others, it is a free for all. In some horse breeds, the farm name is attached, in others, the sire/dam names are incorporated. Dogs are about the same. There is no AKC requirement that you use a kennel name, but most breeders want their kennel name on the dog's papers and request/require via contract you do so. Some breeders like to keep track of the litters by naming the first litter pups something that starts with A, the second litter pups something that starts with B, etc. Other breeders go by themes, such as a patriotic litter, a candy litter, a famous movies litter, and so forth. Some breeders don't care as long as the kennel name is on there (all six of the dogs I have owned which I got as puppies, all the various breeders wanted was the kennel name plus whatever in the world I felt like putting on there). CH means Champion, which means that the dog has won a certain number of points and competitions and attained the status of Champion dog in conformation shows. There are other titles for drafting, water work, obedience, etc. No question is a stupid question. I guarantee you if you were sitting there wondering about it, so were other people. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Re: Dogs call names
Well, let's see. Micawber--character from Charles Dickens. Sort of a happy, loyal, family oriented guy. Seemed like a good name for a happy, loyal, family oriented puppy! Lliira--a goddess from Advanced Dungeons and Dragons (my spouse and I are both Gamers) who presides over festival and joy. Perfect for the most mellow, happy dog I think I've ever met. Loch Ness--what else would you name an often wet, slimy, large monster, I ask you? Nessie the Newfie . . . .the bleeeh blh dog! (which is the noise people make after she loads up with a drink and comes to slob you) And Cassie came to us with Cassie, although we couldn't let it be that short so her official name is Cassiopeia. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Mic and The Baby
Friends of ours (Trish and Aaron) had a baby this fall, and recently they visited us for the first time since Kate's arrival. Kate has Borzoi at home, so have large wet noses and tongues poking and slurping does not distress her (she's about three months old). Well, all four of our dogs were very mannerly with the baby; Cassie the rescue Pyr has lived with babies before and mostly said, oh, hi, another one of these. My three have met some babies but not often--Lliira the Pyr girl and Nessie the Newfie were fascinated and inclined to come and investigate at regular intervals. Mic was not fascinated but he was fine, checking her out and then wandering off to do his own thing. Until she cried. The crying thing he was not so sure about--first he checked her out, then he came over to me as if to say, ok, make it stop now, please! The visit was a success all around (and as you might recall, Mic went through a phase where he was only allowed to be around very calm, mannerly, dog-wise children while he was leashed, due to some growling incidents--he has now been allowed to be loose and interacting with children/infants for about six months, and while I don't trust him the way I do the girls, he is getting better and better). Fast forward a few days. I am on my treadmill, with a tape of Star Trek Next Generation going, doing my morning masochist, er, exercise routine. It's the episode where Counselor Troi has a baby. Well, the TV baby starts crying. Mic, who usually ignores the TV, jumps up, runs over, and listens to the sound coming from the speaker, head tipping left and right. Then, off he explodes, running to all the front windows, looking out at the driveway for Trish and Aaron's van. That failing, he runs upstairs to look out at our bedroom side window, which overlooks the rest of the driveway. No dice. Down he comes, very puzzled, peeking out the front windows again. What the heck, he thinks, the baby is here crying--where are they hiding??? Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Sleeping In
So I had the bright idea I was going to sleep in this morning. I set the clock for the vastly sinful time of 8:30am (I'm not kidding--when you live on a horse farm, that is serious sloth!). 6:00am. Eileen wakes up. Nature calls. Gets up, falls over Nessie the Newfie, who blends into the carpet in the dark. 6:15 am. Back in bed, organizing covers. Mic the Berner boy climbs in bed. Wedges in-between spouse and Ei. 6:40 am. Nessie begins snoring like large, fat man. 7:00 am. Cassie the Pyr bays like the Hound of the Baskervilles, leaps up from the foot of the bed, races outside to tell off a squirrel, or maybe some dread monster like the local Chickadee population. 7:30 am. Nessie wonders why Eileen is not out of bed yet, comes over to poke her with a very wet, sticky nose and tongue. Eileen wonders if Newfs are in the frog family as she unsticks her hair from the pillow. 7:45 am. Lliira the Pyr comes prowling in. Climbs on bed. Mic is in her spot, so she stands on Eileen's stomach (good thing we did not ignore that call from nature at 6). Snuffles Eileen's face careful, full of concern that she is not out of bed. Turns around carefully, sits down with her behind in Eileen's armpit, slowly ooches into a down position, wedged on the edge of the bed. Nessie decides someone is getting attention, comes up and starts hovering over the pillows, flinging slime, licking anything sticking out of the covers, such as an ear, elbow, or eyebrow. Mic realizes other dogs might be getting petted without him, so he rolls over and then commando-crawls up the bed until he is lying on top of Eileen, paws on her shoulders, nose in her face. Lliira feels left out, gets up, turns around again, and starts snuffle-snorting all over what Nessie and Mic have not covered with slime, kisses, and nose pokes. Cassie is outside, barking down the house at the Slate-colored Junko's in the Maple. 8:00 am. Eileen gives up. Feeding horses will be easier than sleeping in. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Re: Frequency of Health Problems
- Original Message - From: Rose Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Nancy, I find it interesting that DARK skin in dogs is more prone to melanoma whereas it appears fair skinned people are more prone. Grey horses are very prone to melanoma when they lack black skin and only have silver or pink skin. Actually, all grey horses, including those with black skin, are ridiculously prone to melanoma. About 80% of grey horses have melanomas, in fact. Mine has one in her lip and about half a dozen on her tail/dock area (all are each about the size of a pea). I used to swear I wouldn't have a grey for that reason, but, well, no good horses are a bad color, right? And more info you didn't really care about . . .most greys with pink skin are not genetically grey (although they are grey in color); they are the combination of chestnut and a strong dilute or cream gene. That said, how interesting all this variety in issues is. I know too much white as an overlay can cause problems in some breeds--deafness, etc. And in horses an overo paint horse which comes out all white has a genetic defect called 'lethal white' and a zero chance of surviving. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Re: Raw bones Diarrhea
- Original Message - From: Cheryl Otis [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have a problem when giving Tanner any kind of raw bones, he developes a 72 hour bout of diarrhea after digesting any of it. I have tried letting him chew on them for just a short time, 15 to 20 minutes at a time but it doesn't seem to make any difference. One of my girls gets loose stool and another one vomits after eating the raw meat attached to the bone (both are fine if someone else has had a go at it first). Since I have a hard time finding proper raw bones in my area, I always give Mic first crack at them since he has the ucky teeth and if anything is left then the girls get it. I guess if I did lots of little, low key exposure they'd adjust, but since I have difficulty getting the bones, I can't get on a good enough routine with them to adjust the whole house over. Mic is never bothered, thank goodness, since he is the high priority for the raw bones. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Re: Healthy Teeth
- Original Message - From: Terri Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's been so long since I've posted, I'm hoping this works. Does anyone have any secrets to healthy teeth and gums for a Berner who isn't a chewer? Raw Bones. I never thought I'd be giving raw bones to my dogs, but, Micawber has crappy brown teeth and nasty, puffy gums. I hand him a raw bone, best bet a knuckle bone, and he chews until his gums bleed. Nasty, but, after having a bone twice a week on a regular basis, the teeth are white and the gums receding. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Re: Youngest Bernese Sire
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The latest issue of the UK Kennel Club Breed Records Supplement has published details of a Bernese litter sired by a male who was just 21 weeks old at the time of mating - 7 months old at the date his 20 month old partner whelped 9 puppies (she was the youngest Bernese dam listed in that issue too.) This has caused a great deal of comment amongst Bernese breeders and owners here - as you can imagine! Have any of you ever heard of such a young Bernese siring a litter? Yikes! Sounds like perhaps the breeder was caught out thinking Mr. Guy was not yet old enough or ready to breed. I would guess this was not a planned breeding, but perhaps it was. Dogs can be very determined about things like the mating imperative. I don't know about young dogs, but I know of a few cases where a colt bred his mother (or another broodmare out in the pasture with them) before being weaned; the youngest of those was about 6-7 months. Normally, horses don't get interested in that sort of thing until a few years old. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Re: Twistep - interesting device
- Original Message - From: Val Whiteford [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was wondering if anyone has experience with this device. It is called a Twistep and is a platform/step which attaches to your trailer hitch and is stored under your vehicle. It swings out and (according to the web site) gives your dog lower stress access to your SUV. There are different sizes for different vehicles. I have no affiliation with company - just came across it while browsing. Here's the web site: http://www.otllc.com/index.htm A woman on my Newf list loves hers. She has a biggish Newf with some so-so hips, as I recall. That is the sum total of my knowledge! Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Re: trying to get information
Do the papers list all previous owners? (horse papers do--I've never had papers on a rescue so I am not sure about that). One thing most rescue clubs do is protect the privacy of the prior owner, the one who surrendered. There are those people on both sides of the adoption issue who will harass or otherwise intrude and be weird with the turn-in/adopting family. We don't let either side know who each other are in the two rescue groups I've been involved with. We do let the turn-in family know that things are going well with the dog, but we don't give them personal contact info. I once spent over an hour on the phone with a very angry and very . . . strange . . . woman who had turned a dog into rescue (she lived on the other side of the country from me, by the way, and I have no idea how she got my phone number) and now she and the husband wanted it back. I think she was on something and she was about one staircase short of her attic anyhow. I would hate to have some innocent new family call that person up to ask about some minor health or behavior issue! Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Re: Trever lump!
- Original Message - From: Julie Bregenzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Have not posted in 2 years, so I hope I am doing this right. I have a bernese mountain dog named Trever. He just turned three years old. I just discovered a hard lump on his back, in the middle of his back, about the size of a marble. I know I have to take him to the vet, is this the berner cancer? is this how it starts? I did research, and there is no cure? Am I right? Need help? opinions would be appreciated! Hi Julie. My Micawber has had two lump removals in the past year (he is 4 now). Both were benign cysts, both were a mostly firm lump, sort of oblong, in the middle of his back. They both wept a nasty fluid, too. There are a lot of reasons for lumps and bumps, some dreadful and others just an ugly bump. Chances are this is just some sort of fatty lump, or a benign cyst like Mic's lumps. we hear more about the bad lumps than the ones which were no big deal, as that tends to be the nature of folks. Good luck, and let us know what your vet thinks! Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Re: Rescue BMD w/ issues needs help
Vilma-- While I wholeheartedly agree that we need to give rescues every chance, I'd like to point out that sometimes dogs come into rescue for a good reason. One thing rescue groups for Berners will have to consider as this breed grows more popular and begin suffering even more from health and temperament issues due to poor breeding choices on top of trouble spots already existing in our breed is when to say no, or when to euthanize. Remember, aggressive dogs are a great liability risk for the club. A placed dog which bites and injuries a new family member or friend visiting can rebound on the club resources legally. I guess I am concerned about this due to my own work with Pyr rescue, and even Newf rescue. I've had one foster dog from each breed which had to be euthanized due to aggression issues. It was heartbreaking but the only right choice for the dog, the club, and any potential family. Currently, Berners enjoy high placement status and even problematic dogs have good homes waiting; Newfs are not in quite as much demand but are quite easy to place. Pyrs do not enjoy popular demand and my small club often resorts to newspaper adverts to try and generate potential homes; we have about 25 dogs a year come through the club, and it seems like about 1 in 25 needs to be euthanized for aggression issues. Given how poorly bred, trained, socialized, and managed the rescue dogs often are, this does not seem like a terrible statistic to me. This year, our club had a nightmare litter be sold through a pet store in the area. Something like four or five Pyrs were turned into rescue (or attempted to be turned in) due to multiple bite incidents. They were littermates from a Dakota puppy farm; by the third one, we were just telling the family's we were sorry, it was not their fault, and to take the dog to the vet for euthanasia. I do think it is in the best interests of the dog and club for the dog to be fostered by someone knowledgeable, but, please keep in mind sometimes there really is only one real option for the sake of the dogs and the people involved. More than one foster caretaker in my club has had a hospital trip due to an aggressive foster dog--one of our club co-chairs was very seriously injured and hospitalized while making an in-home visit for a potential rescue turn-in. Wow, I sound really pessimistic, don't I? I think that is in part because I believe Berners have a little less resilience in terms of being poorly bred, badly socialized, etc. than Pyrs. I think as fanciers we need to really put some thought into where we will draw the behavior problem line and why. Best luck with your rescue dog. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Re: Rescue BMD w/ issues needs help
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] But this particular dog has not even been evaluated yet. I just want to give him a chance! Oh, I certainly didn't mean that no one should give these guys a chance. Many perfectly nice dogs get thrown away every day! (hence my some dogs are turned in for a good reason). The Newf I fostered who was put down for attacking his second foster parent (we were going to be traveling) came into rescue as aggressive and we none of us took the family very seriously because we thought it was a case of a boisterous, ill trained young man. Alas, we maligned the family because there *was* something really wrong with that dog! But plenty of dogs called aggressive are merely poorly trained and high energy, not aggressive at all. I was really just using your post to piggy back in something I've been thinking about in terms of Berner rescue, because is seems like quite a few of these guys come in with real issues. I think in all breeds, unneutered males 1-3 yrs old is the highest demographic of owner surrenders. Just trying to dish out some food for thought. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Re: questionable behavior...looking for guidance
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have a 5 month old berner pup that we have had since she was 7 weeks old (we picked her up on October 21, 2002, for age reference)and she has a frequent peeing problem. She is crated during the day and at night when we are at work/sleeping, while in her crate she does not pee (approximate 10 hours per day). Five months and you crate her 10 hours a day plus nights? I beleive in crating, but that is TOO MUCH. Get a local kid , a pro dog walker, or perhaps a retired but vigorous person who can walk this pup and play with her in the afternoon for a reasonable chunk of time (shoot for an hour). Try not peeing for 10 hours each day at work! There is a reason teachers of young children are prone to urinary tract infections--they are unable to slip out of the room for a quick pee and have to wait longer than is healthy. When we let her out and play with her/spend time with her she will anonymously pee in the house (not near the door to outside). My question is when and how can I stop this behavior. She is going to obedience training and has shown signs of knowing to get attention to go outside and pee (i.e. she did not pee in the house for the entire previous week). Check for a UTI infection, let her relieve herself on a more frequent schedule. If she has to hold it for so long, she is probably unable to completely void her bladder in one trip out doors. Thus, she goes out and potties but she has more to do. Use a product like Nature's Miracle to complete irradicate the smell of urine in the house (she will smell it when you cannot), take her out frequently and praise to the skies when she potties outside. Good luck with her! Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Re: Fussy Puppy
- Original Message - From: Kathy Smith-Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] What she does eat is my cat's cat food. Whiskers canned and dry food, chicken and rice formula. So far she seems to be doing well on it but I wonder about the nutritional value of it. Will she be able to get all she needs to grow so fast on cat food? Cat food is NOT good for dogs. It has a completely different nutritional value. DO NOT allow your puppy to live on cat food--put it out of reach. As far as once she is no longer eating the doggie equivalent of twinkies for her main food, she might go back to the Eukaneuba. If not, I would talk to your breeder about both the amount you are offering and what you might try instead. Quite frankly, like children, if pets can con you into dessert and tasty snacks instead of real food they will. I've never met a dog without health problems which would actually starve itself, although I've met ones which would skip a few meals to extort treat food from people. Also, many pups do not need nearly the amount suggested on the bags of the dog food; they fill up after a bit and won't continue eating unless you dress up the food, at which point they over eat. Over eating is more unhealthy in the long term than undereating, so you would rather your pup be a little lean than a little fat. Talk to your breeder, pick up the cat food, and see what happens then. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Re: Bones and Berners
- Original Message - From: Cindy Schaumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] My husband and I may have messed up this weekend and I need your opinions. We got our 5 1/2 year old girl, Bridger, a real, basted bone for Christmas. snipWe didn't think much more of it, but last night, Bridger threw up. This morning, she was heaving again, but didn't throw up. She ate fine, and drank water fine, but we are just concerned that if she swallowed the bone almost whole, she may have complications. I like raw bones, not basted, if I am going to give a real bone. Mic has eaten real bones entirely in the past without incident. While Mic tolerates a real raw bone very well, my girls get barfy after eating a bone. This is most likely because I feed bones rarely and their systems are not really adjusted for raw bones. If I limit the amount of time with the raw bones the problem evaporates. If you are concerned, talk to your vet. Otherwise, just watch your fellow for signs of discomfort. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
Re: www.exoticdogs.com
- Original Message - From: Molly Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] I just got an e-mail from these people asking if I had photos of my dogs they could use on their website. All they offered in return was credit as the photographer. That makes no difference to me but I figured I would check them out first. Always a good plan. I was actually quite upset when I read their page on the BMD. Half of their information is incorrect - my favorite was some white markings on heat, chest, tip of tail and feet are permissible Yikes! These lines got me next: Special Skills: In the past, it was a cattle-driver, watchdog, and tracking dog. Today, it is a watchdog and family pet. Well, they did move cattle and guard the farms. Less sure about the tracking. Mic is definately a watch dog and family pet--he alerts us whenever anyone is near the property with as much vigor as my Pyrs do. Watch-dog: High I would agree with this for most Berners. They bark and let you know someone is coming onto your property. We call the dogs our doorbells, actually. Guard-dog: Medium - High This would also describe Mic, as well as quite a few other Berners I know. It fits others less well. Then finally - Activity: High. Needs exercise, but enjoys lounging with owner. That's my fellow! Living Environment: A home with a back yard is essential. His natural territorial instinct will keep him close to home. Well, Mic might come *back* home but I'd certainly not bank on him sticking around without supervision. Of course, I think all dogs should be exercised either with supervision and good recall training or in a safe, fenced enviornment. Too many cars going too fast and too many people and other pets too close together in most people's areas for the old days of dogs roaming about. So, I guess while I think they are not the most accurate in the world, especially on markings and yard management, I do think they have a fair assessment of many Berners in their other descriptions. Quite frankly, my Mic is in many ways tougher than many of the Rotties I've known, and while not the most typical personality in the Berner world, I've met enough Berners like him to know I don't have a freak of nature living with me. :-) Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 1/21/2003
Re: What Do You Have in Your Medical Bag?/Aleve
A few folks have asked me about Aleve, not being sure it if is ok for dogs, as it is close in nature/family to ibuprophan, which is not ok for dogs. I think I mis-typed--Ascripton, the Maalox + NSAID, was what I actually have in my kit. Sorry! Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003
Re: What do you have in your medical bag?
- Original Message - From: Laura Lopez Mendez [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hola guys! Excellent list, Eileen! I would add quick stop powder and an antihistaminic...in case a bug bites! Oh, yeah, I'm allergic to bees so we have Benadryl (or the generic) stashed upstairs, downstairs, in the barn, in every vehicle . . . I forgot that one! Not injectable, but a capsule. We also always have aloe around in case of burns. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003
Re: What do you have in your medical bag?
- Original Message - From: Cindy Buhner [EMAIL PROTECTED] For your dog, I mean? Vet wrap betadine scrub various gauze pads antibiotic ointment eye wash sharp scissors tweezers sterile sponges in a pack portable instant cold pack pepto pills buffered aspirin/Aleve hydrogen peroxide (usually to make barf if ate something bad, but can be useful for finding small cuts or a tick in thick areas of fur--makes it bubble and gives it away) Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003
Re: Aggressive Behavior
- Original Message - From: Cindy Schaumberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] My question for you is, have any of you had any behavioral problems with your Berner? If so, what kind and did anything help? Many folks have. Fear aggression is not the typical Berner personality, but it (and territory aggression) are not unusual Berner personalities, either. My Micawber, also a beloved member of the family, is a bit worried, and tends to be territory aggressive. The first year and a half of his life we socialized him extensively, took him to obedience classes, and in general we had him out and about and people over visiting at the house multiple times a week. He never met a person he didn't like. At about 1 1/2, he shifted from Mr. Love-all to Love my Family, Not So Sure About YOU. We had some growling incidents with people he knew well. I took him for a temperament assessment, we got him on a pretty strict structure regime ( as in, giving him routines which made him feel more secure--greeting rituals, places in the house which were 'his place', and also lots of small positive rewards obedience routines). Mic has slowly improved, and in the past year we've had almost no incidents of grumbling/growling at all. At his worst, we would have several growling incidents during any visit. He would go and solicit attention, then worry and grumble when a person actually petted him. He is currently 4 1/2. The tough years were really 1 1/2 to 3-ish. I hope we are over the hump. When the person who did the temperament test was talking with us about what steps we had taken to socialize and train Mic prior to consulting him, he said we had pretty much done anything a responsible family could do to socialize a dog well and produce a good citizen; actually, he said Mic was a great and loving dog, very devoted, and would be quite manageable given the level of his aggression issue. He also said Mic was very lucky to have landed in a family like ours, where we did know about socializing and the importance of early training, as given a different setting Mic might have turned out quite badly. I think shyness is a more common problem than aggression in Berners, but the two are related. We've done a lot to try and help Mic be more confident, which is what has made the greatest difference. I've posted pretty regularly about our struggles with Mic; when I do, I frequently get private emails from people who are having the same or similar troubles, which leads me to believe that these issues are more common than a person might think from just reading the L. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003
Re: colonitis update and meds reaction question
- Original Message - From: Carol Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] The meds Nika was given caused a major reaction. For my information, I'd like to know what medicines have caused allergic reactions in the dogs out there. If she is in need of other meds at a later time, we're definitely hesitant. Carol -- I'm glad your girl is improving! ANY medicine can have undesirable effects. For instance, I have had penicillin products used on most of my animals at one time or another. My good show mare, Moonlight, stepped on a nail last spring and punctured her hoof. We put her on procaine penicillin, something I had used with other horses on many occasions over my years with my own horses or horses in the barns I worked with. Well, she had an allergic reaction which was truly horrible (think, horse collapsed in field, unable to ride, entire neck and chest inflamed and swollen). So, we use SMZs on her now when we need an antibiotic. However, I used up the rest of the procaine penicillin on another of my horses a few months later with the good results we hope for from such antibiotics. Best wishes for continued return to health for your girl. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003
Re: is my dog neurotic?
- Original Message - From: Jim Mary Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Does anyone else's dreamboat chase their tails like they're made out of cheese? Is Nola a mental case or just being goofy? I let her go if she gets started, but someone told me that it's neurotic behavior. Mic is a mad tail chaser. If I point at his tail and say, get it! he'll spin like a top until he grabs it, then go faster and faster with it in his mouth. When he gets really going, only the inside legs are even hitting the ground. We make sure to have him chase both directions for even exercise. =8-0 She also eats tissues, but i'm sure that's just gross-dog behavior. thanks. No paper product is safe with Micawber near by, either. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003
Re: vet specialists
- Original Message - From: Benjamin Brainard [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Jeannie Schoen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Although cheeper, I'm not inclined to use MSU because they don't use anesthsia and do not allow you to be present. On the other topic, i highly doubt that any vet clinic would allow you to be present during procedures, especially x-rays. It's hard enough to get liability insurance for x-ray exposure for the folks who work in the clinic, much less getting a dispensation for possibly exposing you to x-rays. I find many things go much more smoothly for the dogs and owners when concerned owners are allowed to relax in the waiting room while the procedure is done (especially for x-rays) I have a very tight relationship with my small animal vet. My Berner boy, Micawber, has some temperament issues which manifest when he is nervous and being manipulated in a confined space. We always take him in the big room in the back to do his exams, which makes him more relaxed. When we have done x-rays, I have been with him for the sedation, helped organize him on the table, and then stepped out for the snap itself. I come back in and help reposition if a second image is planned. He has two lumps removed in the past year; both times, my vet invited me to come and hang out with him until the sedation took effect, then she let me scrub and gown up and watch in the operating theatre as the surgery was done. I sat on the floor in the recovery area with him until he was up and running. I think this sort of thing--being present through a surgery--is pretty uncommon. I've not sat in on my girls being x-rayed or any of the other surgeries my critters have undergone. With Mic, my vet feels that having me present as he goes down and as he wakes reduces his stress level significantly. Since we have started taking more steps like this in his visits to the vet, he has gotten significantly more pleasant to deal with. He used to refuse to look at the vet, and rumble unhappily when she had her hands on him. This past year and a half has been growl free, in spite of increased visits with two different surgeries, biopsies, etc. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003
Re: Reggie
- Original Message - From: David Schlesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] We found out today the results of the autopsy on Reggie, our beloved 2 1/2 year old BMD. He died the week before Christmas when my wife, kids, and I were away on vacation. I am very, very sorry about your loss. He died in a local kennel that had come highly recommended. Don't ever believe your friends and neighbors about things like that. I never will again. snip He died from stomach torsion as a result of bloat. Bloat is a fast killer, and it strikes with little warning. There are multiple causes, including genetics, at work. I **seriously** doubt that your family or the kennel were at fault. My dog bloated with torsion and I was able to get him to a hospital fast enough, but it was PURE LUCK that it happened in the evening when I was home. If I had been at work I would have come home to a dead dog. We feel so guilty. Please don't. Bloat can happen to anybody, any time. For the last few years of my Akits's life, in spite of special diets, spaced out small meals, antacids, etc., he bloated at least four more times (his surgery held, so these were gas bloats without the torsion). I used to live in dread I would come home from work and find he had died. I don't know if we'll ever know if the kennel mis-treated him, fed him inappropriately, or ignored symptoms. Please be aware that even the best kennel in the world can lose a dog to bloat in the time everyone has off in the afternoon, or over the night. Dogs seldom behave exactly as they do at home, so if he was a little low-key, that would not have stood out as a red flag. Obviously I don't know this specific kennel, but, it is highly unlikely that mistreatment would cause bloat. As far as incorrect meals . . . my dog bloated five times in 2 1/2 years. Three times he had an empty stomach, twice he had a meal. My take is that actual food in the system has little to do with bloat; there is some indication with the Purdue Bloat Study that types of meals can effect whether or not dogs bloat, but the results are not fully published. Initial comments have to do with owners moistening food with citric acid in it, food with specific ingredients in the top four ingredients listed (I want to say corn but I do not recall); feeding healthful table food seems to reduce the risk of bloat and feeding with a raised dish increases the risk. Risk factors included being narrower and deeper than average *for the breed* in the chest area, aggressive or nervous temperment, and having a relative who bloated. Since I had a dog who barely survived bloat and remained a problem with his digestion for the remainder of his life (he died at a low average age for his breed), and I currently have a high risk dog (first degree relative died of bloat), I tend to stay very current on bloat research. I am so sorry for your loss. Please do not feel guilty--if bloat with torsion is going to strike, it will kill your dog unless you are simply lucky enough to be there, recognize the signs, and get the dog to surgery fast enough. Even then you are not out of the woods; many dogs die even with surgery. Luck was against you, and you cannot control that. Please don't beat yourself up over this, and wonder if you sent him into some terrible situation which caused this illness to befall your dog. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003
Re: Lap Sitting!!
- Original Message - . Also, if he can't sit on your lap then he sits on your feet. It is very funny to watch indeed. Does anyone else's Berners do this? Just wondering if this was a Stevie idiosyncrasy or a Berner one or none of the above. I have decided that Micawber the Berner Boy is not really a dog. He is an animated coverlet. Cassie and Lliira the Pyr girls like to settle on the couch next to a person, and Cassie and Mic are both devastating with The Paw. Lliira does not Paw Slam, instead, she gentle ear snorfles you while madly tail wagging. Nessie the Newfie just skulks around behind me like a 140 lbs bear rug and flops as near to my spot as possible. She seldom gets on the couch or bed with us, I think because she doesn't have enough room to be comfy. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002
Re: puppy paws and snow HELP
- Original Message - From: Joseph Spada [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am about to get a puppy in a week. I live in New England. We just received a lot of snow. I would prefer to housebreak directly outside ... but am concerned about puppy feet and the snow. also concerned how to socialize the puppy if he can't go out in the snow/cold. I have read a ton of books and thought I was prepared - I will Barf diet, minimal vaccines, clicker train ... I don't know if it's my cold feet or the pups but how do people train in winter? Mic the Berner boy was housebroken during a PA winter. We went right on out into the snow, which he loved to play in. Lliira the Pyr girl was also a winter puppy. I have wonderful memories of her doing head rolls into the snow drifts. They are good winter dogs, and as long as you don't keep them out for hours on end, a healthy Berner should be perfectly fine playing in the cold and snow during potty breaks and outside play time. Just be careful about traction with ice! You don't want the puppy falling! Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002
Re: berners life expectancy: breeding versus spayed
- Original Message - From: Sharon Montville [EMAIL PROTECTED] The downside to early spaying is I believe some on this list have had bitches with urinary incontinence as a result. Most of the female pups I have placed were spayed by age 6 months and have not had this problem. They are also all alive, from the 7-year-old batch and the 2-year-old-batch. The percentage of bitches with spay incontinence is exactly the same for dogs spayed at mature ages (after a few heats, average age of dogs in study 2 yrs) and before the first heat (average 7 months) according to a study done on spay incontinence. I believe the % is about 12% of spayed bitches have this problem; the larger breeds are more likely to develop spay incontinence than smaller breeds. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002
Re: Rimadyl
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I guess I'm in the minority here. I have used rimadyl on Gunner with no problems at all, in fact, it works great on him. Rimadyl extended the life of my elderly, displastic Akita by about two years. Nothing else gave him the kind of relief which would make his life quality worth having. He experienced no problems. Like any powerful drug, it has a range of efficacies and range of effects which are not desirable. For some dogs, it is a killer--but for some people, so is something as simple as a peanut butter sandwich. Heck, one of my best friends cannot eat a PB J sandwich for lunch and kiss her spouse when she comes home from work without putting him in the emergency room with an allergic reaction. He once ended up in the hospital after someone at a restaurant cut his dessert with the same knife used to cut another dessert with peanut butter as a main ingredient. We must not take drugs for granted, and even simple and common safe remedies should be monitored carefully. Rimadyl has helped many, many dogs. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002
Re: Puncture wound to mouth
- Original Message - From: Cindy Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5 month old Nicco was playing with my sister's one year old Golden this afternoon. These two boys do this mouth play when they get together which I usually put a stop to but they no sooner got together this afternoon and Nicco started bleeding from the mouth..lots of blood. The bleeding stopped after 5-10 minutes but I still notice a little blood flow when I feed him. I have not had much luck locating the wound but strongly suspect it is under the tongue. Sides and roof of mouth look ok and all teeth are still intact. He is not bothered at all. My question is, should I get him on an antibiotic for a punture wound from another dog's tooth or just leave it alone? I would flush with salt and warm water (a little bit owie but great for kids and adults to heal mouth injuries) and keep track of his temp. If he gets a fever, or depressed, I would call the vet ASAP. Other than that, I'd flush his mouth with warm iodized salt water solution 2-4 x a day for a few days and keep an eye on his eating/chewing comfort and not worry about it. Any signs of discomfort, swelling, fever, depression, etc would have me on the phone with the vet. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002
Re: Lumpy Gully
- Original Message - From: Jeannie Schoen [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was kind of disappointed yesterday when I took my lover boy BARC Gulliver to the Vet's. snip yucky vet visit He remains the same happy, playful, eating normally, and with a lump in his upper lip! When Lliira the Pyr girl had a spider bite, she had one thick lip and the side of her muzzle was fat for about, oh, a month or two. She ignored it completely and the vet told us to ride it out, once the initial anti-allergy meds were given. I still remember looking down one day and exclaiming in surprise, Hey, your face is symmetrical! Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002
Re: low lying pillows, newspapers, and magazines are in danger!
- Original Message - From: Bonawitz, Greg [EMAIL PROTECTED] He seems to know that it's bad since as soon as we open the door and see it, he takes off. he is reading your body language, NOT having guilt pangs over a behavior over and done with long ago. Dogs don't have quite that good a logic. If you don't beleive me, come in when there is nothing wrecked and pretend there is someting bad there. You have to act just like you do when he *has* shredded the papers, though, in order to have the same effect on the dog. I would really prefer not to crate him all day, especially since he was so good for ~ 8 months of this (and day care was too expensive). However, our family room has lost it's comfort with all of the pillows now stored up on top of the sofa backs and no reading material on the coffee table while we're gone. Guess what? When one has a small child or a young dog, one has to rearrange the house to be child or dog proof. As long as he is not doing major furniture destruction or breaking his house training potty manners, I think crating all day long is not a good thing. Putting everything up and away while you are not even in the house is the only thing which is going to work until he is out of this phase. How much exercise does he get? Can someone walk him in the afternoon? Berners need a lot of time burning calories and romping--they are often quite high energy dogs. Another thing you can do so that he does not have anxiety when you leave is to set up your leaving for the day as a Good Thing. Stuff a Kong with treats, seal it with peanut butter, and hand it over as you walk out the door, or, you could take a handful of treats and toss them across the carpet for him to sniff out and munch. He probably gets into trouble as soon as you leave, but if you really want to know, you could set up a video cam to find out. I find that dogs are mostly anxious-active right when the people go, then normal dogs generally settle down and sleep most of the day. Good luck! Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002
Re: Housetraining and sleeping and BARC/LOC
- Original Message - From: Mary-Ann Bowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Housetraining is simple and easy when one realizes it is the people AND puppy that must be trained, and approach the task with commitment, persistence and an understanding of the developmental needs of a small puppy. I am also glad that I made the efforts to get the puppies used to using the outside potty because I think that made this job much easier. You know, I would have said that too, Before Lliira. :-) I've housebroken lots of puppies, no problem, and was feeling quite smug about it until my Pyr pup came along and showed me the error of my thinking. You are absolutely right that most of the time, with most pups, knowledge of development, anticipation, etc., can create a well trained set of housemanners; I will say, for those who might have a Lliira in the house, sometimes a puppy comes along to confound even a good and successful system. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002
Holiday Adventures
So, we had a little dusting of snow on Christmas morning. Ahhh, nice white holiday, I thought. We were supposed to get more through the day, but you know how the weather folks are, always wrong. HAH. I did morning horse chores, and decided to top off the tank even though it could easily have lasted until the evening; I knew it would not last the night as well, so I figured I might as well drag the hose from the house to the barn. As I was starting to fill the tank, freezing rain came from the sky. Yuck. My horses go out in the shed paddock in every kind of weather but ice rain. So, filling tank for nothing, as horses will be in this day afterall. Maybe tonight they could go out, if it quit. Rain shifts to snow mid morning. Swap gifts with spouse, give dogs their stockings with cookies, squeaky toys, and let them rip up the gift wrap paper all over the living room. Happy dogs. Eased down the mountain to the in-laws for lunch and gift swap; twice I jumped out of the car to haul a tree which had collapsed due to ice/snow burdens from the road. Hubby offered to help but they were smaller trees (trunks about 8 inches thick) and one person with some muscle could move them aside. Nice time with relatives, harder time getting home, more tree removal. As I was moving the third one, there was an *enormous* crack and half a tree crashed down the mountain side to land in the road 50 feet behind me. Snow now many inches deep, car gets stuck in drive when we get home. Hubby and I did some digging and back and forthing. I quit helping when the car got as far as the barn; hubby persisted until he got to the garage. Go into house. House is dark. House is cold. No power. Get wood stove cranked up. We have candles, get them out, stoke up the stove some more, find flashlights, get buckets of snow to melt for dog water (we have a well--no electric, no central heat, no water, no lights, no appliances). Micawber the Berner boy, Nessie the Newfie, and Cassie and Lliira the Pyr Girls having marvelous time running and playing in the snow filled dog yard. There is a distinct ramp up from the dog door, and snow is starting to block it closed, so hubster shovels dog path when out shaking the trees, hoping to save them from the fate of many trees which are exploding all around us. Ate cold ham and holiday cookies for dinner, with glass of champagne. Did evening horse chores by flashlight and turned horses out into the weather for the night--snow had stopped, it was windy and cold but they are out 24/7 and have a shelter if they want it. I checked on them several times through the evening and once in the middle of the night. Everyone was comfortable and munching hay in the paddock, hock deep in snow. I thought the power would come up in the night, but no so luck. House *very* cold once fire died out in the night. I cranked up the woodstove, did morning stables, played in snow with dogs, then dug out the kerosene heater. Hubby found the directions and dismantled it, cleaned and re-wicked it, and then it actually worked. Dug truck out, loaded pickup with hay for extra weight, and 4-wheeled to in-laws mid-day for showers and some hot food. Came home, moved food out of freezer and fridge and put in coolers filled with snow on the porch. Melted more snow for dogs. Mic the Berner boy found tub of melting snow, stuck his nose in it, grabbed it, picked it up and raced around the living room shaking it, creating indoor blizzard. Nessie the Newfie ran about biting snow, Lliira rolled in it, Cassie stood on couch barking at everyone. Silly dogs. Evening arrives. Power company called--no one knows how long power will be out. Many, many lines down. Made plans with hubby to go to movies, in order to spend some time in heated building. Planned to drag mattress into living room for sleeping by woodstove. Plotting meal when . . . the fishtank filter coughs into life, the tap starts running, and the fridge comes on! Hurrah! Nothing like a holiday in the country, huh? :-) Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002
Re: What Do I See???--stolen laundry
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eileen, Hso your tricolor laundry thief has been discovered, the evidence being a bra in your backyard? You neglected to let us know the condition of the stolen object. Gently nibbled. Will double wash back into life. I've never found any evidence that Mic does anything other than carry around, shake, and chew on laundry. No, er, processed materials have been discovered. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002
What Do I See???
So there I am, picking the dog area of the yard. My black and white dogs (Newf/Berner on the two black dog list and a pair of Pyrs) are milling in and out, helping. What do I see hidden in some leaves? My missing bra. I *know* who the laundry thief is . . . the man in the black and tri-color suit. Blasted Micawber. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002
Re: cancer advice
- Original Message - From: Jordan S. Dill [EMAIL PROTECTED] I ran across a site (The Mare's Nest) yesterday that states that Berners are liable to a high incidence of cancer (30% or so, as I recollect). That would be my web site, actually. And as I recall, without checking, I think I said estimates were as high as 30% and I based that on conversations with breeders, the death stats provided by the Berner health survey, and also the incidents rate on the health survey. You may remember that Hesse and I just fought our way through a bout w/cancer and when I asked about the why of this (bad luck, genetics, whatever) there seemed to be a consensus that Berner's were no more liable to cancer than any other breed. You did that concensus without including my opinion. As someone who has Berners, Newfs, and Pyrs in my life, I can tell you cancer as a health issues comes up on the Berner list more frequently than any of my other lists. Malignant Hisitosis is a very rare cancer in general, but the most common cancer of all in Berners. I think this can *only* be explained by genetics. Just like in people, some types of cancer are genetic and some are not. So, how do I balance the conflicting advice? You will never find anything past extremely simple facts where everyone agrees. You balance it by doing your own research, observing the world around you, and developing a coherent belief system based on your experience and the various evidences of others. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002
Re: Dog Fancy - Elevated Bowls
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From all my research I have understood that elevated food bowls were the way to go for Berners. In this months issue of Dog Fancy in the letters section there is a letter from someone responding to an article about bloat. At the end of the letter it states that elevated bowls make the problem worse. Which is it? I've been using elevated bowls thinking I'm helping to avoid bloat. Old time wisdom, based on educated guesses from breeders and vets, was that a raised bowl was something that might help prevent bloat. The Purdue Bloat study, set up by Dr. Glickman, has demonstrated that the *opposite* is true and that raised bowls significantly increase bloat risk. The study is massive, tracking something close to 2,000 dogs, over many years (7 or more, now, I think). You can Google and find the original study info and data if you would like. My buddies in the bio/chem science departments at Penn State looked at the study parameters and told me it was a very well done study, so i put my belief in science in this case. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002
The Great Squwak
I came home from a riding lesson with Moonlight this morning, and was stomping about the house like some sort of trooper in my dress boots and britches, figuring I'd wolf down some lunch and ride my young horse, Belles. Then, I heard it: an great rumpus of shrieking chickens, cackling and hollering from the back yard. The dogs poured out of the house through the dog door, ready for trouble of the fatal kind. Cassie scrabbled out the door last; someone was already *in* the yard, of course, because someone was already after the chickens in the first place, but I didn't catch who started it. The dog area is fenced so that the dogs can't get out, but under the deck the weave in the woven wire fence is large enough for suicidal chickens to enter The Dog Zone. I chased the dogs out the door, and saw Cassie had a young rooster in her mouth, holding him by the breast with his little head and mini-comb hanging down. Nessie the Newfie and Mic the Berner boy were in hot pursuit, with Lliira the Pyr girl bouncing in circles and running in laps. Enter Eileen, trying to catch Chicken Dog. She's having none of it, and with all the other dogs zooming around, tails waving, tongues lolling, eyes rolling, barking madly, it was sort of like trying to get a handle on a car load of drunk circus clowns tearing around the yard. Cassie eluded my grasping hands and made a break for the deck . . . and the dog door. Now I had a carload of drunk circus clowns charging around the house. Lliira was still mostly just excited about everyone else being excited, and showed no interest in Mr. Chicken. Nessie and Mic were intent on stealing the chicken from Cassie, who, since she was last out, either seized the chicken from someone else or snatched it in a pincer move as someone else chased it into her path. We finally ended up in a heap by the downstairs bathroom door, having flattened furniture and scatter holiday boxes in our wake. I grabbed Cassie's collar, while she fiercely growled at Nessie, who was shoving along the side. I bellowed, That growl better not have been for me! (it wasn't) and Cassie instantly spat the chicken out, tossing him several feet in the bargain. I put my knee in Nessie's face and shouted at her to leave the room, while dragging a toothy Cassie (all directed at Nessie) to her crate, which was thankfully in the back room near the bathroom. Cassie crated, Nessie banished, Mic hovering in the living room, I head back for Mr. Chicken, who is breathing but looking stunned and poorly. I couldn't decide if he was just in shock or if he had been really injured (chickens can be funny that way--they look awful and perk up when ignored, or they look pretty good and drop dead). So, I carried Mr. Chicken out and tucked him up in an area across the drive where they like to hang out sometimes; he'll either bounce back with some peace, or go on to Chicken Heaven. Just another day at The Mare's Nest. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002
Re: Surviving Bloat and Becoming Active Again
Wow, I'm sorry to read of your frightening experience. My Rohan also bloated over the TG holiday. Roh never really came all the way back to his former level of activity. He was 7 when he bloated, lived to be 9, and had several more rounds with bloat sans torsion. Thank goodness his tummy tacking held up to his continued troubles. We ended up putting him on the blandest possible food and switching his treats to entirely charcoal biscuits. I think it will depend on the dog, honestly. I have more knowledge about athletics and horses after a major colic surgery than a wide sample of post-bloat dogs. In colic surgery where the bowel is untwisted and some removed (the closest thing to dog bloat surgery in terms of insult to the body) I've seen complete recovery with the horse going back to full work within, say, six months to a year, and I've seen horses which were never again as strong, sharp, and athletic and which had continued problems. Probably not what you were hoping to hear, I'm sure. My best advice is to let Winter tell you what he is up to, and make sure you don't let him be a little too stoic in order to please you. Best luck. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002
Re: Various Berner questions
- Original Message - From: Joe Cheer [EMAIL PROTECTED] The only problem we have with him is when he sees another dog, he just lunges because he wants to play and greet the other guy (who may not want to be as enthusiastic). Teach him a LOOK command. These are highly useful in a number of situations to have your dog focus on you. The LOOK command works great for over-enthusiastic greetings, dog aggression, stealing some little kid's ice cream cone, etc. Take one hungry dog, have him sit next to you. Take a really yummy treat--hot dog chunk, cheese cube, liver square, etc--and show it to the dog. Raise it slowly up to the bridge of your nose, between your eyes. When he glances into your eyes, reward mark and give the treat (I would use a clicker, but you can do a 'good boy.' Not as precise but will work in the end). Lather, rinse, repeat until the dog looks into your eyes regularly. Now add in the word look and then phase out the lure. Start slowly using the Look command in situations with more distractions. As he gets better and better, raise the distraction level. Once he really has it, ALWAYS use the LOOK when he is in his high distraction, Pain in the A** situation; after a while, he'll see another dog and start Looking as a reaction. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002
Re: Neutering Poll
- Original Message - From: Karen McFarlane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Could anyone tell me whether or not he will stop marking after he is done or are we too late now. He has demonstrated this behavior for about 3-4 weeks. I neutered my Akita at about 1 year. He continued to show the marking behavior. I think you have to nip it in the bud, and even then marking is not necessarily irradiated by early neutering. Territory marking is highly desired in Pyrs as livestock guardians, for instance, as it wards off less determined predators without need of physical confrontation. Even early neutered Pyrs tend to be markers, especially working dogs who pick it up for canine mentors. Cassie the Pyr bitch is so tough about territory issues that she cocks a leg to pee! My male Berner, however, does very minimal marking (neutered at 6 months). Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002
Re: Neutering poll
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi there everyone...I was just thinking it would be interesting to do this since it's been a subject we've been talking about a lot lately. I was wondering how many of you have neutered/spayed/unneutered/unspayed females and males, and what you're reasoning for doing it or not doing it is--i.e. breeding purposes or personal preference, or whatever--and how many BMDs you do have. In order that they joined us: Male Berner, 4 yrs, neutered at 6 months (Micawber) Female Pyr, 4 yrs in a week, spayed at 5 months (Lliira) Female Newf, 3 yrs, spayed at six months (Nessie) Female Pyr, 5 yrs, spayed at 2 after litter of puppies (Cassie the Rescue) Mic comes from a moderately successful set of show dogs but is clearly pet quality; there are some finished dogs in his five gen, and his dad was being actively shown, but it is not exactly a roll call of show dogs. Lliira the Pyr girl is probably show quality; she comes from a family with 5 generations all CH, 8 Hall of Fame dogs and the top winning Pyr bitch in the US and the top winning Pyr (male) of all time within 5 generations. However, as we did not intend to show her or breed her, we spayed her to reduce the risk of breast cancer and to avoid dealing with heat periods (by the way--although her breeding is impeccable, Lliira was out least expensive puppy, which says more about demand for Pyrs vs. Newfs/Berners than anything else; Nessie was our priciest pup). Nessie was retained by her breeder as a show prospect, but due to job layoff she decided to place Nessie when she was 9-10 weeks old; Nessie is a lovely but not 'in vogue' Newf. She goes back to some of the old, heavy, jowly lines. Very classic, but not what is being sought in the ring; 3/4 of her 5 gen pedigree were finished CH, most with working titles also. She could finish with the right handler (I once emailed her pedigree to a fancier who was looking for a stud to freshen her lines and wanted to know more about Nessie's family--her comment after reading the pedigree was WOW you have a classic canine there). Again, since we had no plans to breed her, we felt it was in all of our best interests to have her spayed also. Cassie the rescue Pyr is without papers, probably a pet shop girl, and also has had a litter of pups (as is evident by her teats, which have obviously been nursed). She came into rescue for the first time at 2 yrs old and was spayed and placed. We would have spayed her since she is clearly a nice dog of pet quality. Would make a heck of a working dog, though, had she landed in the right home for it. She has all the serious guarding behaviors you would want in a livestock guardian--night barking, territoriality, marking behavior, alert to new predator type animals, high pain tolerance and low prey drive, dominant personality. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002
Re: When to Neuter a BMD
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---* * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * *Mail Lists at Prairienet only accept PLAIN TEXT* * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: chasing tails
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] How many of your berners out there chase their tails? Mic the Berner boy is a mad tail chaser--he'll go til he gets it, then spin faster and faster until he goes kerplop. Lliira the Pyr girl does not chase her tail, but she has a completely, totally adorable gambol that she does around in circles when happy. Nessie the Newfie chases her tail once in a while, and once she catches it she clamps on and walks in slow circles, holding it fiercely. Cassie the Rescue Pyr is only playful in small spurts, and when she is she tends to swing her head in a semi circle while doing a tight turn. We have hopes she will develop a little more sense of play as she settles in more and more and realizes she won't be thrown away (yet) again. We are home 6 and 8 that we know of for sure (we fostered her for a few months last year, home 7 did not work out and she is back with us for keeps) and she is only FIVE. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002
Re: cancer
- Original Message - From: Jordan S. Dill [EMAIL PROTECTED] When I asked why of Angell and the Vet they w/o skipping a beat answered, genetics. This is what prompted the question. Now from what I gather (list answers to my question), unless there is a proclivity for cancer in a breeders line, this is not so. I do want another Berner friend for Hesse but can not go through what I've just been through financially...appreciate all the advice. Quite frankly, we know for a fact that some kinds of cancers are genetic, and some are just plain bad luck. Also, when we get quite elderly and something goes wrong in our bodies, it often manifests itself in a cancer. Berners do not develop cancer more often than Pyrs, but in my opinion, more Berners get cancers at younger ages, and the cancers tend to be more aggressive. For example, Malignant Hystosis is a very rare cancer, but it is the most common cancer Berners get. There is a genetic component to this cancer, but it is a complex one; it might skip some generations, or slide from a auntie to a nephew rather than parent to pup. So I do not disagree with the vet who told you genetics. And I do not think predicting and controlling these genetics is easy. It might be more common in some lines than others, but I really doubt there is a line which is cancer free. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002
Re: Jumping Puppy
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? from New mommy?? My 41/2 month female is 35lbs What is the best way to stop her from jumping on people. I dont want to be cruel, but I can be consistent. I have conflicting advice on leash/collar types choke like vs the non-muzzle leader leash You don't stop jumping with punishment. You stop jumping by giving the dog another behavior for which it is rewarded. I knew my Newfie, Nessie, would grow large (mama is 138, dad 170--now at 3 yrs old, Nessie is a lean and active 140 lbs). I taught her to SIT when she came up to someone to be petted. And I taught her to DOWN when she approached or was approached by children (this is so engrained that if we are walking and someone's toddler comes shooting over to the pony she throws herself on the ground and starts scooting towards the child on her belly). My other dogs (Micawber the Berner boy, Cassie and Lliira the Pyr girls) also know four on the floor means they will receive a lot of attention, and jumping means they get none. So, what you do is work on her SIT command in a low distraction environment. In order to really get it proofed, have her SIT before all good things--she wants to go out and play? She has to sit nicely at the door. She wants a cookie? Sit. She wants a walk? Sit. She wants dinner? Sit. She wants petting or to greet someone? Sit. To teach the SIT, take a treat and a hungry puppy on a leash with a plain buckle collar. Take the treat, put it in front of that little nose (keeping your hand closed around it so she can't grab). Draw your hand up and back over the top of her head towards her tail; the nose should follow the good smell (hot dog, cheese cubes, liver treats--something really yummy). As the nose goes up, the butt goes down and she finds herself sitting. As the fanny hits the floor, reward mark. I would click the clicker at this moment, but you can give a fast 'good girl.' Repeat a few times, til she starts to really zip into place, then you add in the word sit and phase out the lure. Still reward the sit, though. Once she is sitting in a variety of settings and with distractions, put the reward on a variable schedule and you can mostly phase it out as well. Now have her SIT whenever she is greeting people (you included). She learns to run up and plant the fanny, and no one gets knocked flat. She is highly rewarded for the polite greeting with praise, and you have replaced the undesirable behavior with one you want. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002
Re: berner pup or baby - which should come first???
- Original Message - From: kerry ferrari [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am 32 and I recently married my husband who is 37. We have been together for over 7 years and have gotten baby fever. Since I was 17 years old, I have always wanted a BMD. So I have a case of berner fever too. My question is, which should we do first? The baby or the puppy. We are both getting older so we feel like the clock is ticking. However, I know that I could give the puppy much more attention and training if we got a puppy before the baby. Does anyone have any suggestions? Well . . . I got my Berner boy when I was in my very low 30s, and we plan on a family at some point as well. Unfortunately, Mic has a temperament which is not desirable but also not uncommon in Berners; he is a throw back to the more sharp, guardy personalities the old Swiss farmers bred for. We are concerned about territory aggression and children; he was socialized on a regular basis with nice children from the time he came home with us, but when he hit about 1 1/2 he went through a very growly phase which lasted about a year, year and a half. He growled at his former child playmates, and also well known adult friends and extended family (not us). We did continued extensive socializing, and we really structured his life. He had already gone through three levels of obedience when he hit Growling Time. Now at 4, he is significantly less growly (I can't remember the last incident--it has been maybe six months or more) but I also feel uncomfortable with him and children. I hardly want to have him be a potential danger to someone's child. This fall we have twice allowed him to interact with children (carefully supervised with multiple dog savvy adults, and they were children who were mannerly and well schooled with being around large dogs). It was fine, but I will always wonder if he will accept an infant should we have one. I think until it happens there will be no way to know if he will need to be either heavily managed or rehomed at that point. At my age, I cannot expect to wait out his natural lifespan and still have a child. So . . . think about it. There are no easy answers. The puppy is basically as time consuming as a baby. You are right, having a puppy first means you will have more time for him or her as a youngster. However, if the temperament is not ideal, you might run into issues. Also, you need to work hard to make sure the pup continues to get plenty of attention after the baby arrives; Berners are notoriously clingy and needy for attention. Sorry I can't give you anything more specific and helpful for advice. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002
Re: State of the Breed (dog on the mt, whatever)
- Original Message - From: Sharon Montville [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is very important to remember this fact about the Bernese in the USA: This is no longer a rare breed. I do not quite agree with your assessment. At least where I live, I am more often asked what kind of cross Micawber is, and if he is a perhaps a Saint Bernard (come on folks, he weighs about 87 lbs!). I do agree that they are getting more common, especially in advertising, and that more people do know or at least think they know what one is when they see it. I don't understand why people are spending more than 1000 of their hard-earned dollars, for the privilege of spending thousands more in vet bills, just because the puppy is a Bernese Mountain Dog. I don't think we can take the Berner, which is what? Somewhere in the 40s on the popular breeds list? And compare it with a breed which has been in the top 5 since I can remember. We need to compare them with other breeds in the general vicinity of their popularity (this is according to AKC lists). I know Berners and Newfs were not that far apart on the list, since I have one of each and paid attention to where they were. This about 1,000 price is consistent with the prices of Newfoundlands, well bred or not. A truely less common breed than either the Newf of the Berner is the Borzoi, which is considerably cheaper and practically does not exist in puppy mills (I've never seen on in a pet store, although I'm sure some have made their way through those channels). So I don't know that rare always = high price. I think *desireable* = high price, whatever drives that desire. For the most part, I agree with Susan that the breed will save itself - although it remains to be seen whether Berners become the next Golden (which did NOT save itself - the litters are too large) or the next Saint (a breed which basically DID save itself). Saints overall are not in favor at the puppy mills anymore - not profitable. I pray every day that Berners in the puppy mills will not be fertile. I see a lot of crappy Saints with bad tempers around here, as they are the mascot dog of several local BYB Mills. And I see Saints in the pet shop in the mall on a semi-regular basis. I'll go back to the Newf comparison . . . you don't see a lot in pet shops, but they come through auction on a regular basis and there is a firm foothold in the BYB/Mill set with this breed. They are big, hairy, slobbery, prone to health issues like heart and kidney problems, and a local Newf Farmer has produced a number of Newfs which are *quite* aggressive (I fostered a puppy who was put down for attacking foster mother #2 when I went on a trip; there are three others from the same place who must be muzzled at the groomers.). Think of the damage a dog the size of a Newf can do when aggressive . . . horrifying. And if you think temperament issues will be the make or break of the dog's popularity, look at the GSD (#1 biter how many years now?) and the Rottie (right in the top 10 biters also). You see them being Milled and BYB'd all over the place. What will change if the Berner gets a temperament rap is *who wants* the dog, not if it is wanted. There is a reason the thugs all have a dog de jour. So I am not sure what save itself is going to look like. I don't think Newfs and Saints are 'saved.' Or do you mean that there will be a level of dogs in mills and bybs and pet shops which is acceptable to you, and thus the dog has saved itself? As long as there is demand, those dog Farmer Bobs are going to rush out and get some stock; and if Farmer Bob gets disgusted, Farmer Sue is waiting in the wings to buy out his stock and try her luck, too. I think there are things we can do to help reduce this problem: educate, scoop as many bitches out of the BYB/Mill pool as possible, fight to change laws about the sales of dogs in pet shops, etc. But I think that hoping the crappy health of the breed will take care of it isn't quite the place I want to put my stake. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Re: Nails. Is wear a sign of use?
- Original Message - From: Michaela Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] Huh? How would they achieve that? Vertical rock climing? Abseiling? VBG (dew claw wear) Well, when they are running and doing corners, the dewclaws of sighthounds do touch ground. The slow motion camera is a wonderful thing! When we walk Lliira and Cassie in rough terrain regularly, they do not need the same sort of trimming that they do when only walking the smoother paths. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002
re:Dewclaws
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have now had two dogs. The first with dewclaws removed and the second one intact. I never realized how much they do use them in every day activities until I observed during the quieter times. There is definitely musculature involved with the fronts, unlike what you'd find with the back dewclaws. The back dewclaws on many dogs are boned in and are like any other toe. Both my Pyrs flex and move their dewclaws when they are stretching. Since double dewclaws are mandatory in the breed standard (and also one of the criteria by which dogs are accepted or rejected by overburdened Pyr rescue groups) we leave them on. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002
Re: question for eileen morgan
Wow, my name made it to a header. I feel like I've arrived. =8-0 - Original Message - From: lydia myhree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eileen- I am curious about if you mix Innova and California Natural together? Micawber the Berner boy, as a youngster, had tummy trouble with the food recommended by his breeder (Solid Gold) and also had loose stool trouble with Innova. Both are very rich foods, in terms of lack of fillers. California Natural (distributed by the same company as Innova) was a better food for Mic. Lliira the Pyr and Nessie the Newf were fine either way, but Lliira eats Innova better than she eats the CN. So I just got in the habit of giving Lliira and Nessie the Innova and Mic the California Natural. When Cassie the Pyr joined us, we put her on the California Natural for no particular reason other than the two bags would last about the same amount of time. Nowadays, Mic can eat either food, but we still get the two brands out of habit. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 12/2/2002
Re: More dewclaws questions
- Original Message - From: Michaela Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why are rear dewclaws removed? Is it solely to conform to the breed standard? Or is there another reason why rear dewclaw should be removed? A lot of folks will tell you dewclaws mean trouble--getting snagged, requiring extra clipping, etc. However, in sighthounds they are thought to be necessary for fast cornering, and slow motion tapes show that they do touch ground at significant moments of exertion. In Great Pyrs, double dewclaws are required on the hind and singles up front; we call it Lliira's 4 wheel drive. :-) I've never had a problem with her dewclaws. Once in a great while someone will post to the list about a snagged or torn dewclaw, but it is not more common that the tearing of any other claw or toe as far as question/comment frequency seems to go. I know dogs who get exercise in rugged terrain do not seem to need the double dewclaws clipped; Lliira and Cassie need very infrequent trimming of the dewclaws (all six of them! or twelve between!). Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Re: dewclaws
- Original Message - From: Mary-Ann Bowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, just imagine how much better horses would be if only they had dew claws!!! ;) Well . . . they have chestnuts (also called night eyes) which are the vestigial remains of the fifth toe. It's that funny patch on the inside of the forearm and gaskin. They are like fingerprints--a different pattern for every horse. You can take an impression of them and prove your horse is yours if it is stolen. Actually, horse front leg conformation is really cool--it's like an elongated hand. What we think of as the knee is really a wrist joint; the hoof was the middle finger of the hand. The other fingers are along the cannon and go into the lower joints. I think I should stop now. I sound like a lunatic teacher, lecturing a sleeping class . . . =8-0 Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Re: Need to rehome our Berner
Hi Mike-- I am coming to your post from the perspective of someone who has struggled with aggression issues with my male Berner, Micawber. I don't know if you've read my posts on and off about the subject, but I really do understand what it is like to live with a dog you love but cannot necessarily trust. So, with that in mind as a background, let me address some concerns from your post. Let me also say that while Mic was quite difficult with strangers and some friends he knew well but did not feel he should have to defer to, he has matured into a much more predictable and stable dog. 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 was a hard time; from 3-4 he has steadily improved. First, have you contacted your breeder? This is the person who should rehome him in most cases; my contracts all require me to return the dog to the breeder in the event that s/he does not work out for any reason. The second best option if you do surrender is to place the dog with official Berner club rescue. They will, like a breeder, evaluate, rehab if needed, carefully screen for new homes, and also be a back-up and take the dog back if for any reason it does not work out in the new home. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unfortunately he has shown signs of selective aggression with strangers and we can no longer keep him as we have children and cannot take the added liability and risk. What has he done which is aggressive? Is it growling? Snapping? Has he bitten someone? In what situations has he been aggressive? Have you had him to a dog trainer? What about a careful vet check, including thyroid screening? I do understand that an aggressive or difficult tempered dog is not the best dog for a family home, and that of course your children and their friend's safety must come first. However, if you have not taken steps to help Baily understand his place in the heirarchy, implimenting an Alpha Boot Camp might significantly change your life and his. There is an excellent article about this program, which simply reminds the dog regularly that you are in charge. URL below. http://sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/alpha.htm You can find longer, more indepth discussions about how to manage and rehab the aggressive dog in Jean Donaldson's books. The Culture Clash is the one I have and it is a very easy to read, step by step way to socialize or resocialize your canine into a good citizen. Good luck. If you would like to correspond privately, please feel free to email me. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Re: Claustrophobic Berners
- Original Message - From: jesse shelley gonzales [EMAIL PROTECTED] If any of you have experienced this behavior with any dog, I would love to hear about your remedies, treatment or anything you did to try to help your dog get over this. I don't have a dog which is claustrophobic in the house, but Lliira cannot be crated. I guess one thing I find works is the all good things here strategy--feed in the house, do many pleasant things in the house, try and reduce all negatives. In other words, if the dog hates being brushed, go outside to groom. I also find control over environment can help a stressed, nervous dog. I'm wondering if having a dog door, and thus the option to go out at will, would help? Lliira loves to sleep in a crate if there is no door attached. As far as dealing with the anxiety, I do know a person or two with rescue Pyrs who found that anti-anxiety medication helped get the dogs over early difficult periods. I think the vet put them both on something like Prozac, which the dog was weaned off slowly once the drug taking the edge off enabled the owners to work through the problems. *this is different people, different vets. Sorry I'm not much more help than that! Let us know if you have any good success. I would love to learn more about how to work with this sort of problem. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Re: Lumps
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] After reading Kathy, Jessica's and Eileen's posts my question is -- when do you worry about a lump? Hugo (8 year-old neutered male) has many lumps which the vet says are fatty deposits. One that is particularly large is about the size of a lemon cut in half lengthwise. Two different vets have said because they move they're not concerned. Those fatty lumps are very common and pretty obvious when being diagnosed, so I would feel comfortable ignoring them. Mic's lump(s) were sudden, growing, and oozing nasty thick gook. Nothing a person would want to ignore! Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Holiday Escapees
I've been back on my seriously walk the dogs very regularly routine (I've also taken up the hideous self torture of jogging, but I do that sans dogs--the last thing I need is to be gasping down the pavement with a dog who spots a deer or something). I'm not sure exactly how far my walk is, although it is laps around my 12 acre property, which is not quite square, since our neighbor's place takes a little bite out of one corner, and we come in and around the woods instead of edging the woods on the outside. It has rolling hills, though, as I live on a mountain. The spouse says it is about a mile, give or take a little. The dogs think this whole walking thing is really fab. When they think it might be close to walking time, they start freaking out whenever I go into the computer room, since the leashes live there. And if I start putting on warm clothes, look out. Cassie the Pyr bitch starts nosing the doorknob, Mic the Berner boy barks stridently and launches around like a loose cannon, Lliira the Pyr girl cries, and Nessie the Newfie tries to herd me into the leash zone. I do three laps with Mic and Lliira, then swap and do three with Cassie and Nessie. This morning, after Mic and Lliira's laps, I was swapping the collars and leashes with Nessie and Cassie. Both have been working on manners with this walking thing, so I make them sit and wait while I open the door, and then sit and wait on the other side while I close the inner door. They were very good this morning, BUT Mic (followed by Lliira) was NOT. I have the girls half way through the door when this black tri colored bullet crashes between me and Cassie, putting me on my butt. A white streak followed suit. Great. Now I am trying to get Nessie and Cassie back in the house, so I am wrestling 250 lbs of we wanna go for our completely Lliira is completely out of sight, totally gone. Mic is racing laps in the front yard and up and down the drive. Cussing up a streak, I manage to drag Ness and Cass in the house and unclip the flexi's. I grab a six foot leather leash, run the clip through the hand loop to make a fast collar, and zoom out the door to catch Mr. I'm-So-Hot and look for Lliira the Invisible Pyr. Mic was playing keep away, so I flopping in the snow to entice him over and snagged him with my leash lasso. I brought him in the house, turned him loose, and bolted back out to look for Lliira. I headed down the drive, calling and thinking about missing dinner at the in-laws because I spent the day hiking through the over 300 acres of woods our back of the property neighbors own (which they do not allow us to walk on, and they have been known to shoot deer out of season and I've had a cat shot, too). As I was passing the barn and shed, I heard this little click click of toenails. Lliira had gone into the tack shed to eat catfood! She had a cat in there, who probably ran from her and led her into the cat food buffet in the first place. Whoo! What a relief. Since she was pretty cornered in the building, she trotted right up to me to be caught and returned to the house. Mic was banished to the crate and maintained in jail by the spouse, and Lliira shut in the office. I then gathered up Nessie and Cassie for the second half of my morning dog walk. Managing four big enthusiastic dogs can be a trick. Mr. Micawber would be wise not to try and pull that particular fast one again any time soon . . . Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Horse Meets Dog, Horse Meets Cat
I was riding my event mare, Moonlight, the other day. We were hacking a lap of the property to cool down after our workout and were making our way across the backyard when Cassie the Pyr Bitch came out of the house. She puffed up and cautiously approached her side of the chain link fence. Moonlight stuck her nose down and out and ambled over to the fence, causing a mass retreat from Cassie, complete with some Woowoowooowooo! The fenced bit of the yard has a deck attached, which is higher than yard level. Cassie trotted up onto the deck and approached the deck railing, now at eye level with Moonlight and clearly feeling braver. Moonlight snorted and walked to the fence, at which point Cassie beat another hasty retreat. At this point, Micawber the Berner Boy, Nessie the Newfie, and Lliira the Pyr Girl came swirling through the dog door and onto the deck. Nessie puffed up and wheeled her tail when she realized the horse was Right There, Lliira dropped her tail and made an appeasing and eager face, and Mic blasted at top speed over to the fence to sniff noses. Cassie came riding on his coat tails while Nessie and Lliira bounced around further back. At this point Ms. Moonlight lost interest in the dogs and indicated that some hay and a roll in her paddock was in order, so we went ahead back to the barn to strip her off and turn her out with her equine pals. After putting everything away, I was trudging back to the house. The driveway runs along the front of the small shed paddock, where everyone is incarcerated until pasture growing season comes again. Moonlight was along the driveway side of the paddock, and hoping she might entice a treat out of me she walked up to the fence. Now, Dusk the Barn Kitty was sitting on the fencepost right where Ms. Moonlight parked herself, and Dusk was not thinking this giant face had any right to be next to *her* spot. Out comes the kitty paw, bappata bappata BAPP. Moonlight, highly offended by the nose smacking, pinned her ears and stalked away, tail swishing. Yeah. 3/4 of the dogs won't get near her and a cat 1/4 the size of her head chases her off. THIS is the real difference between cats and dogs! -- Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Re: Horses and Dogs
- Original Message - From: Marjorie Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dogs and Horses---in my opinion, they get along great. Unless, like me, you have a 1500 lbs warmblood (the my Cleveland Bayx) who likes to stomp dogs and will go out of his way to do so . . . the girls and my other gelding don't care if the dogs cruise by, though, although my broodmare just about went through the fence after the dogs when the filly was small. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Re: Our Tonka is gone
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know we will never replace him. I am so very sorry to read of your unexpected loss. But we are a family that simply loves our pets and we know we will want to get another dog in the future. Right now it hurts too much to think about, but what do those of you with experience in this kind of loss think? Is there an appropriate length of time to wait before we begin our search for a new dog? I always had a little overlap when I lost a dog companion until I lost my Rohan four years ago; in other words, I always had an older dog and a younger dog, so when I lost my older companion there was still a dog in the house. When I lost Roh, since he was an aggressive breed dog and would have been unable to accept a younger dog pal, I was left with an empty house for the first time since I was a little child. I freaked, honestly, and I brought Micawber into my life as soon as possible after my loss. It was a long two months with no dog in my home. There is no right length of time. It might be days, it might be weeks, months, years . . . every family is different. I truely beleive there is no therapy for a broken heart like puppy breath, and I am willing to bet Tonka will help pick you out a new puppy when you are ready, and nudge him or her your way from the Bridge. Remember the love, and hang in there. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Re:Berners and Cats
- Original Message - From: jean cheesman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hmm! New poll suggested here! How many Berner Owners have Cats? I have three of each and my Berners love small critturs too! (could include rabbits, ferrets!) Yep. Seven barn cats (Ceirce, Dusk, Faust, Another Doodle, Banjo, Rumpleteaser, Squiggle) and two in the house (Rimble and Obsidion); we had four in the house but we lost one to cancer and one old age within this past year. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Re: Berners Horses
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] As I was drooling over Ray and Pat's puppies I began to wonder how many Berner folks were also horse people? How about a new poll? Name your horse and riding style- *We have a morgan/standardbred cross for English pleasure who loves 16 month old berner boy Augustus As my signature line suggests, I live on a farm and have horses. I ride dressage and eventing, although I've dabbled in hunters, jumpers, competitive trail, western, games, and pleasure. Currently I own five of the beasties but two are on lease with my instructor (one lacks upper level talent but is a sweet kids/husband horse and the other has had some soundness issues but can happily work at moderate levels of difficulty). That's Elliot Doc Holliday the Quarter horse and Ramblin Bard the Cleveland Bay X Thoroughbred. Calliope is my retired pasture ornament Thouroughbred, while my hard working horse is my Appendix Quarter Horse Moonlight and Shadows. She is the one who has all the jumping photos on my web site on her own page. :) Although she is a registered QH, she is really quite a lot of Thoroughbred (hence Appendix registration). My up and coming youngster is a very promising Cleveland Bay cross, Idlehour La Belle Dame. For all you folks wailing about the long lost horses in your life--join a lesson program! Most places which are any good at all have some nice schooling horses for riding, and if you take a group lesson it really isn't terribly expensive. Pack a few lunches to work each week and there's your lesson money. There are a lot of mature women who ride in the evening group lessons with my eventing coach--they have a heck of a good time. When I was teaching I had several mature women who were either coming back to horses or riding for the very first time in their lessons with me. By mature I mean 40 to the 70s. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Re: More from Super Cooper!
- Original Message - From: Lindsay Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] * I don't know if it just a puppy thing, but when we go outside he wants to eat EVERYTHING and I mean everything! He stops every 3 inches and puts something new in his mouth. Does this behavior pass with time? For the most part. Like a small child, everything is new and for exploring. * How do I discourage begging? Give him an acceptable alternative behavior. We put the dogs in a down stay in the doorway of the kitchen. For a long time meals were a jump up, reposition dog, eat a bite, jump up, reposition dog, eat a bite affair. At the end of the meal all the dogs get a few healthy tablescraps. When they were pups we had the clicker with us and a stack of yummy dog treats like cheese cubes and we would click and toss a treat at intervals as long we the puppies were in place. We slowly started giving fewer treats, further apart, and nowadays they line up in order of domanance and lay in the living room, watching politely, until we are done and call them for their treats. * Last one...the poor little guy is SO scared of the neighborhood German Shepherd that barks when he sees another dog. Cooper has made lots of friends with other dogs, but he hides when Police Dog Central rounds the corner and lets out a big bark. (I try to ignore this 'hiding thing', tooMy heart goes out to him, though. He gets so scared!) I'd just make sure the Shep can't actually get at him and ignore it. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Re: Unexpected jealousy
- Original Message - From: Mike Alexander [EMAIL PROTECTED] So far, all I have done is ignored Sophie while she is barking, and continued giving my attention to Bart. Once the barking stops, then I start giving her some attention, while still paying attention to Bart. Is there anything else I should be doing? I'd like to curb this before it turns into a big issue when she gets older. That is pretty much what I do. And of the jealous one tries to shove in, I turn my back quite deliberately and continue with the petting of the one I have chosen. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Berners and Newfs/ was Looking for Breeder
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am looking for a breeder. I used to live in Colorado and had talked to many people with BMD's. After researching quite a bit, I feel that this is the companion I am looking for. I used to have a Newf, she was a great companion. Although others didn't appreciate her slobber, her good traits more than made up for that inconvenience with me. In talking with a couple of owners they reccomended I research out the BMD. As owner of both a Newf and a Berner, let me gently point out that while they are both loving and clingy, they are VERY different dogs indeed when it comes to the point of it: living with them. If you really, really enjoyed the Newf personality and want the same basic thing in a smaller package, you probably won't get that with the average Berner. In my experience, these are trends, and individual dogs will fall closer and further from these averages: Berners are more agile and energetic than even a high energy Newf like my Nessie, so they require a lot of exercise. There is no living with my Mic unless he gets a serious activity period on a regular basis. I find that as puppies, Berners are more likely to be sharks and eat your hands, arms, and be a little more chew destructive than the average Newf puppy. They are more inclined to temperament problems such as territory aggression and fear aggression; they were farm guardians in the early years and this sharper personality has remained a consistent subset of Berner temperament. Shy personalities are also not uncommon. Do a search on the Berner archives for some recent shyness and temperament issues and you'll see what I mean when you see how many people talked about their shy dogs and what they were trying to do to solve the problems. I believe while both suffer from health problems, Berners have a slight edge in terms of more health issues. They require similar amounts of grooming, they have a similar love of their families, and they are both funny, engaging, and endearing companions. I am not trying to dissuade you from a Berner! They are excellent companions for a variety of families. However, they are really not particularly Newf-like in my opinion. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Re: chronic ear problems
Lliira always was getting ear infections; she also has airborne plant allergies which render her completely miserable from late August until the first frost. Last year we put her on allergy shots and low and behold, all the ear infections cleared up and have not returned. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Re: puppy issues
- Original Message - From: Terry Cathy Bering [EMAIL PROTECTED] My 11 week + old berner pup is quite bull headed. If she does not like to go out or walk after she is out she just sits or lays down. She loves her home too much! How long are these walks? Puppies should get a lot of outside time, but structured walks should be kept quite short for a puppy not quite 4 months old. I am using different techniques to work with her resistance but I am looking for the magic bullet (technique) to work with her resistance. Look into clicker training. Also, she is not warning me when she needs to go out. Using a crate and timing her feeding is almost 100% effective but if we let her roam in the house after a few hours she will just pee anywhere. Any advice? A few hours? Too long! After every meal (10-15 minutes afterwards), immediately after a drink, instantly after waking from a nap, immediately after any energetic playing . . . timing is all! Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
