[blfs-dev] BLFS and systemd
Hello, Right after LFS/BLFS 7.5 releases I started doing some work to make a standalone BLFS systemd incorporating my notes into BLFS 7.5 book. I stopped doing it after I found out that LFS itself is getting systemd. Here is some of my work in form of patches in hope someone might find it useful at some point. It's against way older BLFS revision, but it gives the idea. Work is mostly about eliminating deps on packages that are now in LFS. -- Note: My last name is not Krejzi. patches.tar.xz Description: application/xz -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/blfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: [blfs-dev] BLFS and systemd
Armin K. wrote: Hello, Right after LFS/BLFS 7.5 releases I started doing some work to make a standalone BLFS systemd incorporating my notes into BLFS 7.5 book. I stopped doing it after I found out that LFS itself is getting systemd. Here is some of my work in form of patches in hope someone might find it useful at some point. It's against way older BLFS revision, but it gives the idea. Work is mostly about eliminating deps on packages that are now in LFS. I trust BLFS will still be usable for non-systemd (i.e. sane) systems, otherwise I won't bother building LFS. I only just came back too :( Richard. -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/blfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: [blfs-dev] Files in BLFS svn missing on anduin
bdu...@linuxfromscratch.org wrote: Missing OpenJDK-1.7.0.55-i686-bin.tar.xz Missing OpenJDK-1.7.0.55-x86_64-bin.tar.xz These tarballs are really large. Have the binaries in them been stripped? Missing nmap-6.46.tar.bz2 Book md5sum e8c337456a692bada3ee53e7f5b87bac DL md5sum 5a36ad3a63d5b7ea5514f745a397436a -- Bruce -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/blfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: [blfs-dev] BLFS and systemd
TheOldFellow wrote: I trust BLFS will still be usable for non-systemd (i.e. sane) systems, Yes, that's the intent. -- Bruce -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/blfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: [blfs-dev] BLFS and systemd
Bruce Dubbs wrote: TheOldFellow wrote: I trust BLFS will still be usable for non-systemd (i.e. sane) systems, Yes, that's the intent. -- Bruce Whoopeedo! and Hi Bruce! Richard. -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/blfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: [blfs-dev] #4977: D-Bus-1.8.0: messagebus group and user already exist
BLFS Trac wrote: Comment (by ken@…): At the moment I'm still trying to absorb the systemd changes in LFS - my own scripts now build a working LFS with eudev and _current_ LFS bootscripts, and I'm fairly confident that the systemv-on-systemd build will work when I test it. But I'm not yet confident about what I need to add so that I can successfully convert it to boot systemd (keyboard, font, dhcp), let alone how to convert my own private bootscripts (fix cpufreq, run a smartd check at boot), nor the changes to ensure that the various daemons will be started by systemd (e.g. postfix, nfs That will probably take me the rest of this month, maybe a bit longer depending how hard it is to convert my own initscripts to work with systemd. After that I intend to build the parts of BLFS which I use on my normal desktops, so I'll hopefully be able to fix _some_ of the issues. Moving to -dev for additional discussion. My objective is to allow users that do not want to consider or even try systemd to continue to do what they are already doing. (If you like your current scripts, you can keep your current scripts. That's an inside political joke, but most Americans will get it.) I am currently reorganizing and rewriting Chapter 7. It's not an easy rewrite because I need to figure out the organization as well as the content. I do intend to address things like keyboard, font, etc. I wasn't going to address dhcp because we do that in BLFS, but simple dhcp is built into systemd, so I may say something about that. Actually, systemd is supposed to honor System V boot scripts, but I haven't checked that out. Armin has created some systemd services for daemons and I want to incorporate those in the BLFS bootscripts. I've prototyped the Makefile so that it installs what is needed if the underlying directories are present. The changes should be transparent to users that only want sysv or only want sysd in addition to those who want to try both. Last night I was trying to figure out how to set the dmesg log level in systemd. It turns out that it can be done with sysctl and set: kernel.printk = 4 4 1 7 where the numbers are console_loglevel, default_message_loglevel, minimum_console_loglevel, and default_console_loglevel. The only number we really are concerned with is the first. This can be done in either sysd or sysv, but it's not as simple as setting LOGLEVEL=4 and then use dmesg -n $LOGLEVEL in a script which is how we do it now. In any case, I'll be asking for help in reviewing the changes as they are made. I think I may be able to do an initial commit of a new Chapter 7 in a couple of days. -- Bruce -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/blfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: [blfs-dev] #4977: D-Bus-1.8.0: messagebus group and user already exist
On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 03:19:45PM -0500, Bruce Dubbs wrote: BLFS Trac wrote: Comment (by ken@…): At the moment I'm still trying to absorb the systemd changes in LFS - my own scripts now build a working LFS with eudev and _current_ LFS bootscripts, and I'm fairly confident that the systemv-on-systemd build will work when I test it. But I'm not yet confident about what I need to add so that I can successfully convert it to boot systemd (keyboard, font, dhcp), let alone how to convert my own private bootscripts (fix cpufreq, run a smartd check at boot), nor the changes to ensure that the various daemons will be started by systemd (e.g. postfix, nfs That will probably take me the rest of this month, maybe a bit longer depending how hard it is to convert my own initscripts to work with systemd. After that I intend to build the parts of BLFS which I use on my normal desktops, so I'll hopefully be able to fix _some_ of the issues. Moving to -dev for additional discussion. My objective is to allow users that do not want to consider or even try systemd to continue to do what they are already doing. And you appear to be achieving that. I don't like that new thing, but I can see the logic of what you are doing. (If you like your current scripts, you can keep your current scripts. That's an inside political joke, but most Americans will get it.) I've no idea what that refers to, but it doesn't matter. I know that (at least) you and Pierre use jhalfs, and for me that is unusable (/scratch is an nfs mount on/from my server, I _really_ do not want to try to build there - by the same token, I use different 'patch' commands). None of these things matter, and I've now developed my scripts to do better logging of what got installed, and what got modified. My point was that _many_ people who build LFS-svn will either copy and paste, or will already have their own scripts. As you said (paraphrasing), this is a major change - those of us with our own scripts will have to take the time to understand it, and all of us ought to notice that a few new packages are now in LFS. I am currently reorganizing and rewriting Chapter 7. It's not an easy rewrite because I need to figure out the organization as well as the content. I do intend to address things like keyboard, font, etc. I wasn't going to address dhcp because we do that in BLFS, but simple dhcp is built into systemd, so I may say something about that. Yes, I saw the posts this week about dhcp and checked the systemd references. That part is now in my sysv-systemd buildscripts, but not yet tested. My impression is that you _have_ addressed the keyboard and font setup, but I need to look at the detail (e.g. many of my builds will still be eudev and will not include systemd or dbus in the LFS part, so I need to confirm whichh sort of build I'm running, and perhaps make the systemd configuration conditional (e.g. if the directories were created by systemd and therefore do not exist). Also, my console sttings are quite different from the book (one of my LatGrkCyr fonts, either 8x16 or 12x22 depending on the machine, and my own keymap to give me _some_ useful compose sequences - actually, I keep hoping I'm going to be able to spend time on both of those: my fonts could do with a few improvements, and I'd like to get some sort of cyrillic and (ideally) greek input working on the console, but everything else continues to get in the way ;-) . Actually, systemd is supposed to honor System V boot scripts, but I haven't checked that out. Thanks for the reminder - I had seen that before, but forgotten about it because I never wanted to use that package. Maybe I'll give it a try on this build. Armin has created some systemd services for daemons and I want to incorporate those in the BLFS bootscripts. I've prototyped the Makefile so that it installs what is needed if the underlying directories are present. The changes should be transparent to users that only want sysv or only want sysd in addition to those who want to try both. That sounds useful, but I dare say that I'll want to look at the details of creating systemd services in any case : partly because I'm as anal as most other LFS users, and partly so that I can support user problems. Last night I was trying to figure out how to set the dmesg log level in systemd. It turns out that it can be done with sysctl and set: kernel.printk = 4 4 1 7 where the numbers are console_loglevel, default_message_loglevel, minimum_console_loglevel, and default_console_loglevel. The only number we really are concerned with is the first. This can be done in either sysd or sysv, but it's not as simple as setting LOGLEVEL=4 and then use dmesg -n $LOGLEVEL in a script which is how we do it now. Thanks for that - I hadn't even thought about that (but I definitely will need it when I get to trying to boot
Re: [blfs-dev] #4977: D-Bus-1.8.0: messagebus group and user already exist
Em 20-04-2014 18:26, Ken Moffat escreveu: On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 03:19:45PM -0500, Bruce Dubbs wrote: BLFS Trac wrote: My objective is to allow users that do not want to consider or even try systemd to continue to do what they are already doing. And you appear to be achieving that. I don't like that new thing, but I can see the logic of what you are doing. This is close to what I think and feel. With BLFS svn taking so much of my time, I cannot stop to build or learn the new LFS at the moment. Bruce's work is original, because no distribution has this hybrid character (AFAIK). I would like to stay with System V, but many if not the majority of packages that I update already had or is just including support for systemd, and we cannot neglect that. -- []s, Fernando -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/blfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: [blfs-dev] #4977: D-Bus-1.8.0: messagebus group and user already exist
Ken Moffat wrote: On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 03:19:45PM -0500, Bruce Dubbs wrote: My point was that _many_ people who build LFS-svn will either copy and paste, or will already have their own scripts. As you said (paraphrasing), this is a major change - those of us with our own scripts will have to take the time to understand it, and all of us ought to notice that a few new packages are now in LFS. Really, the only thing that's different through the end of Chapter 6 is adding new packages. Skipping systemd and adding eudev is all that is needed to do a straight traditional build (with a few packages from BLFS). D-Bus is not started by default in the System V setup, but the binaries are built and installed. There is one minor change in sysvinit when there are four lines that move files. If systemd is not installed, those are not needed. The scripts in the new 7.1 section are not needed either. For System V, everything else is the same. My impression is that you _have_ addressed the keyboard and font setup, Not yet. At least not to my satisfaction. Also, my console sttings are quite different from the book (one of my LatGrkCyr fonts, either 8x16 or 12x22 depending on the machine, and my own keymap to give me _some_ useful compose sequences - actually, I keep hoping I'm going to be able to spend time on both of those: my fonts could do with a few improvements, and I'd like to get some sort of cyrillic and (ideally) greek input working on the console, but everything else continues to get in the way ;-) . What we do need to support how to do that, but users like you will need to customize for your specific needs. Armin has created some systemd services for daemons and I want to incorporate those in the BLFS bootscripts. I've prototyped the Makefile so that it installs what is needed if the underlying directories are present. The changes should be transparent to users that only want sysv or only want sysd in addition to those who want to try both. That sounds useful, but I dare say that I'll want to look at the details of creating systemd services in any case : partly because I'm as anal as most other LFS users, and partly so that I can support user problems. Of course. And I want to explain the basics in Chapter 7 to get you started. Really it is a set of new configuration files with new formats in new locations. However there is a method to their madness and LFSers should be able to pick it up relatively quickly. -- Bruce -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/blfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: [blfs-dev] #4977: D-Bus-1.8.0: messagebus group and user already exist
On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 05:19:22PM -0500, Bruce Dubbs wrote: Ken Moffat wrote: Really, the only thing that's different through the end of Chapter 6 is adding new packages. Skipping systemd and adding eudev is all that is needed to do a straight traditional build (with a few packages from BLFS). D-Bus is not started by default in the System V setup, but the binaries are built and installed. Yeah, but for the current LFS-svn bootscripts (see my post on -chat from a few hours ago) the name/location of udevd and udevadm have changed. My impression is that you _have_ addressed the keyboard and font setup, Not yet. At least not to my satisfaction. Oh well, I'll wait to see what you come up with. As I said, my own settings are quite different from the book so I don't pay too much attention to the existing sysvinit examples. I did see at least one example in configuring systemd and I think it probably tells me enough to sort out my own builds. However there is a method to their madness and LFSers should be able to pick it up relatively quickly. Don't get me started on what that method might be ;-) Cheers. ĸen -- das eine Mal als Tragödie, dieses Mal als Farce -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/blfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: [blfs-dev] #4977: D-Bus-1.8.0: messagebus group and user already exist
Ken Moffat wrote: On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 05:19:22PM -0500, Bruce Dubbs wrote: Ken Moffat wrote: Really, the only thing that's different through the end of Chapter 6 is adding new packages. Skipping systemd and adding eudev is all that is needed to do a straight traditional build (with a few packages from BLFS). D-Bus is not started by default in the System V setup, but the binaries are built and installed. Yeah, but for the current LFS-svn bootscripts (see my post on -chat from a few hours ago) the name/location of udevd and udevadm have changed. That's right. You do need to either mv the files to the correct name/location, create a symlink, or edit the udev/udev_retry scripts. My impression is that you _have_ addressed the keyboard and font setup, Not yet. At least not to my satisfaction. Oh well, I'll wait to see what you come up with. As I said, my own settings are quite different from the book so I don't pay too much attention to the existing sysvinit examples. I did see at least one example in configuring systemd and I think it probably tells me enough to sort out my own builds. However there is a method to their madness and LFSers should be able to pick it up relatively quickly. Don't get me started on what that method might be ;-) That method is different files, different formats, and different locations. The principles are generally the same as they must be. Generally though, they don't use executable scripts. -- Bruce -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/blfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: [blfs-dev] #4977: D-Bus-1.8.0: messagebus group and user already exist
On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 06:00:51PM -0500, Bruce Dubbs wrote: Ken Moffat wrote: On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 05:19:22PM -0500, Bruce Dubbs wrote: However there is a method to their madness and LFSers should be able to pick it up relatively quickly. Don't get me started on what that method might be ;-) That method is different files, different formats, and different locations. The principles are generally the same as they must be. Generally though, they don't use executable scripts. -- Bruce Yeah, change for the sake of it (aka giving everything to the design kiddies who wrecked gnome), or why write a few lines of interpreted shell, when you could do something harder or buggier. ĸen -- das eine Mal als Tragödie, dieses Mal als Farce -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/blfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
Re: [blfs-dev] #4977: D-Bus-1.8.0: messagebus group and user already exist
Ken Moffat wrote: On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 06:00:51PM -0500, Bruce Dubbs wrote: Ken Moffat wrote: On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 05:19:22PM -0500, Bruce Dubbs wrote: However there is a method to their madness and LFSers should be able to pick it up relatively quickly. Don't get me started on what that method might be ;-) That method is different files, different formats, and different locations. The principles are generally the same as they must be. Generally though, they don't use executable scripts. Yeah, change for the sake of it (aka giving everything to the design kiddies who wrecked gnome), or why write a few lines of interpreted shell, when you could do something harder or buggier. I don't think you understand their problem. LFS doesn't need systemd because it is efficient. If you ever look at the scripts from RH, you'll find that they are quite complex. That's because they try to cover every complex variation of every possible kernel module or program that runs at the system level. That takes a couple of minutes. OTOH, LFS takes about 10 seconds. A complex startup, maybe 15. Actually, after working with systemd for a while, I think it is sorta elegant in it's own complex way. If they had just kept things separate instead of one huge conglomeration, then I think it would have had a lot better general acceptance. -- Bruce -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/blfs-dev FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
