RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gautam Mukunda ... 1. Your claims to know French history would be more convincing if you displayed _knowledge of_ French history and 2. Apparently not. I guess it was too much to ask. I had dinner with George Rutler Proclaiming that I don't know what I'm talking about and dropping names... means what? Not an honored debate approach, IIRC. My preference is that you just say what I wrote here that was incorrect, and explain why. All you've said so far is that there was anti-Semitism in France, which no one disputes. But I strongly dispute your characterization of it as more than a minority who took advantage of the destruction of the French army by the Nazis. Do you have any actual facts about that, or are generalizations, name-calling and name-dropping the best you are going to offer? You brought this up as a reason that France should not oppose our country's war initiative, giving it currency, else at this point, I'd almost surely drop the whole subject. I would hope that as a graduate of Harvard, orbiting among many scholars, special forces troops and whoever else's light you are radiating, you are not just bashing the French because it is fashionable, but is based in facts. So, will you offer facts and not generalizations? In the meantime... Vous parlez l'histoire Francais comme une vache de droite. Et si vous comprenez (sans assistance), peut-etre vous connaissez plue que je pense. (Which probably has some errors, but I don't get to practice much these days, despite almost a decade of studying French and France.) Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Speaking of Bottled Water...
Kevin Tarr wrote: Anyone else use those pitchers with built in filters? I don't use one normally, but I've tasted water made using one and tasted no difference. I had a water softener installed weeks after buying my house. I didn't think it tasted bad, but knew it needed it. Of the four other places I normally drink water three have city water and one is well water. The well water is horrid, they drink and cook with spring water 99% of the time. Only one city system have I not liked. It didn't taste bad, just different. But normally I have no trouble drinking tap water. In all the posts in this thread, I have only seen mention of bottled water, city water and well (bore?) water. We are dependent on rain water run-off from the roof, collected in a 1 gallon (44Kl) tank. This water tastes much better than town water. Is this a common method of obtaining drinking water elsewhere? Regards, Ray. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
* Gautam Mukunda [Sat, 15/03/2003 at 20:12 -0800] Since they seem to be made by someone who knows a _lot_ less of France's history than I do, no, not really. The Vichy government was a collaborationist government of France that ran southern France _without German occupation_ for much of the early war. German troops did not move into Vichy-controlled areas for at least a couple of years after 1940. German demands for the exportation of Jews were met with more alacrity in France than they were in _Italy_, an actual honest-to-God Axis power. You forgot to mention that Germans had 1.5 Millions French hostages held in captivity in Germany. There is no record of significant efforts to prevent the massacre of the Jews by the Vichy government, which had much more independence than dilettantes in French history realize, by the French Catholic Church, by the Resistance, or by anyone else of significance in French society. There is tremendous record of ordinary people helping to hide and protect Jews. People taking jew children and pretenting they were theirs, civil servants making false papers to give Jews false identity with a French sounding name, local priests disobeying hierarchy to forge baptism certificates. That said the Vichy government was the disgusting reunion of a bunch of far rightists and catholics, catholics whose official stance at the time was Jews were guilty of having killed Jesus. That said it's completely true that the government at that time could have saved a lot more of people. It's also true that that part of history has been downplayed for decades, but that's true that the current society had had the courage to review the period and even tried a former Vichy prefect. What I want to point out here, and that I confirm with all the friendly relationships I have all over the world, is that it's completeley unfair to judge individuals, or infer their thoughts by the acts of their government. When American tourists in France are told to identify themselves as Canadian to avoid trouble, that says something too. Looks surrealistic to me. I'm interrested in having more information on that (offical travel advice links etc.). But I reassure all the Americans who wants to travel here. They don't need to fear the mob. We're not even stampeding hamburgers and breaking californian wine bottles in gutters for not having exactly the same opinion on Iraq. -- Jean-Marc ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
On Sun, Mar 16, 2003 at 01:02:47AM -0800, Nick Arnett wrote: Proclaiming that I don't know what I'm talking about and dropping names... means what? Not an honored debate approach, IIRC. Nick, in a previous message you ended with this paragraph: Given your earlier misrepresentation of French gratitude about its liberation in WWII and now this comment, I'm wondering if you simply don't know much about France or you have some anti-French prejudice, or it is carelessness driven by your distaste for their position regarding Iraq... or what? In any event, I hope the clarifications are appreciated. This paragraph was totally unnecessary to discuss French history, and even if you didn't say Gautam is ignorant, prejudiced, and careless, that insult still came through clearly. This, combined with your insults in an earlier thread, certainly looks to me like you picked this fight. And you criticizing someone for dropping names??? Next, will you be criticizing someone for defending their argument with their resume? It looks to me that you are the one who is having trouble discussing French history using an honored debate approach. My preference is that you just say what I wrote here that was incorrect, and explain why. That would be my preference, too, but I would like to see you lead by example, Nick. Vous parlez l'histoire Francais comme une vache de droite. Et si vous comprenez (sans assistance), peut-etre vous connaissez plue que je pense. Here's how google translated that :-) You speak the French history like a cow about right-hand side. And if you understand (without assistance), perhaps you know liked that I think. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: RE: Deadlier Than War
* Dan Minette [Sat, 15/03/2003 at 11:26 -0600] No. I talked about bombing innocent civils. Sometimes force has to be counterd by force, military against military. But, if one tries as hard as possible to limit damage to military targets, civilians will still be killed. Especially, if one's opponent knows that one is trying to avoid killing civilians and uses them as shields for military assets. So, given that fact, must we chose not to go after any military targets? Yes, it's my opinion, if there's a risk a Just should refrain. And somehow, talking about WWII, I can speak about WWII and bombing and civilian loss. My town (Saint-Nazaire) is an harbour and has been used by german navy. To prevent them to use the harbour Allies bombed it. After the war 90% of the town was destroyed (not the harbour). One of the worst bombing killed 40 pupils in their school. It's still in the collective memory. I think this illustrates the problem. Back in WWII, bombings were very inaccurate. It was impossible to pick a military target without hitting civilians. The question is/was: do we refrain from bombing military targets so as not to kill civilians. Again yes, I'm absolutely positive I've read that French resistance was fairly minimal, and that most French cooperated willingly with the Germans. Do you have a good source on the extent of French resistance? I quickly searched the internet to find a source in English (excuse me I maybe assumed too quickly it was your only language). I found numerous. I overlooked this one (looks educational British) and didn't find errors compared to what I have in memory (I'm not an history scolar though). Maybe you could also look on the same site at other chapters that you know (like USA History) and give me feedback on wether you think it's a trustable source. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FRresistance.htm -- Jean-Marc ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Speaking of Bottled Water...
On Sun, Mar 16, 2003 at 10:11:40PM +1100, R M Ludenia wrote: In all the posts in this thread, I have only seen mention of bottled water, city water and well (bore?) water. We are dependent on rain water run-off from the roof, collected in a 1 gallon (44Kl) tank. This water tastes much better than town water. Is this a common method of obtaining drinking water elsewhere? I've never heard of it before, but I always wondered why it wasn't more common. What kind of filter(s) does it go through before you drink it? Does the tank cover the whole roof? When it is full, it should have a significant heat capacity -- does that help keep the house from heating up too much on a hot, sunny day? -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: We Can make Fuel Cells Happen
On 15 Mar 2003 at 21:08, John D. Giorgis wrote: An interesting article on how to make fuel cells a reality: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.04/hydrogen.html I'm sure that Dan M. will have comments... and before he does, here is a counterpoint: http://www.scienceblog.com/community/article1205.html That counterpoint is true as it goes for the current fuel cell designs, but I've read that while initially the cost and weight would be identical several very promising areas of improvement have been identfied. And yes, there's the political aspect. I don't think the right approach is taken to introducing them. AFAIK, it's simple - ban all new cars from using engines which are simple petrol-burning ones after say 2010. Don't push for any particular replacement, let the market sort THAT out. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Re: We Can make Fuel Cells Happen
---Original Message--- From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] The most important comment is the fact that the hydrogen isn't an energy source, its a means of storing energy. It takes energy to produce free hydrogen, a bit more energy than one can obtain from the hydrogen, due to inefficiencies. *** How do you respond to this claim of the article... which somehow I don't think you even read Hydrogen stores energy more effectively than current batteries, burns twice as efficiently in a fuel cell as gasoline does in an internal combustion engine (more than making up for the energy required to produce it), and leaves only water behind. JDG ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Re: France's influence
On 15 Mar 2003 at 21:21, Dan Minette wrote: And, what are the chances of being re-elected when they take actions that are opposed by the overwhelming majority of their citizens? If I were a politician willing to do what it takes, I'd say that I would represent the interest of _fill the country in here_ and not by Bush's lap dog. If there's a quick, successful war many of them will have also just cut their political throat for utter opposition, may I point out. Also, |I believe a governments roll is to do what's best for the country, not what the people WANT. If they have issues, the next election they can SHOW they have issues. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: We Can make Fuel Cells Happen
On 15 Mar 2003 at 21:53, Gautam Mukunda wrote: 1. Do you think that the estimates that global Uranium supplies are limited are correct? and Yes they are limited, but the usage in comparative terms of volume is tiny. We have enough for hundreds and hundreds of years even at many times todays usage, as I recall. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: We Can make Fuel Cells Happen
On 15 Mar 2003 at 21:37, Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fuel cells could very well be a good means of storing energy in the future; I don't know. I do know they are not a means of obtaining energy. Dan M. Actually, Dan, I'd be interested if you could go a bit farther than this. I've been reading about a hydrogen-based economy for years, and it's always struck me as a bunch of people who have convinced themselves that perpetual motion machines work if you blow them up sufficiently large. It seems very odd. Am I missing something? Since hydrogen is (as you say) an energy transmission medium, not an existing reservoir of stored energy (as petroleum is), a hydrogen-based economy necessarily requires that someone, somewhere, generate the energy that is stored/transmitted in hydrogen. The ways that I can think of to do this, are, well, the exact same ways we generate energy right now. So what's going on here? Higher efficientcy when used than petrol, for starters... Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Speaking of Bottled Water...
On 16 Mar 2003 at 7:31, Erik Reuter wrote: On Sun, Mar 16, 2003 at 10:11:40PM +1100, R M Ludenia wrote: In all the posts in this thread, I have only seen mention of bottled water, city water and well (bore?) water. We are dependent on rain water run-off from the roof, collected in a 1 gallon (44Kl) tank. This water tastes much better than town water. Is this a common method of obtaining drinking water elsewhere? I've never heard of it before, but I always wondered why it wasn't more common. What kind of filter(s) does it go through before you drink it? As a note, every UK University I've been to uses this on at least some buildings. Usually the science ones. And they tend to have a small distillation plant for the water. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
On 15 Mar 2003 at 20:44, Nick Arnett wrote: realize, by the French Catholic Church, by the Resistance, or by anyone else of significance in French society. You might want to look up the Dreyfuss Affair for more information on how deeply anti-Semitism was set into the elites of French society. Zola (who wrote J'Accuse!) was driven into exile and, many people believe, murdered for his role in exposing this. I am quite familiar with the history of anti-Semitism in France. And you have vastly exaggerated it. No one, least of all me, is arguing that there hasn't been an anti-Semitic group in France, dating back to the very anti-Semitic pre-revolutionary government. But if nations are to be labeled by the actions of their minorities, we're all in trouble. France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority, especially at present. I won't say he exagerated it. And you can't judge the whole of a nation on it's minorities, but you must take it into account. Nearly all the French Jewish communities are on a high alert status, and some have been for years. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Heinlein and current international politics L3
On 15 Mar 2003 at 22:59, Han Tacoma wrote: My opinion is that the French have the same misgivings as the American Jewish community has: | But some Jews are increasingly concerned about the lack of widespread | international support for a pre-emptive strike, and skeptical that the United | States can create a stable post-war government in Iraq. | | Rabbi Ismar Schorsch, chancellor of the Jewish Theological Seminary | of America, the academic and spiritual center of Conservative Judaism, | said at a lecture this week, We live in a Ahem. Some points - he is conservative. His views also only reprisent a proportion of the *conservative* Jewish views. (I am Masorti, which is roughly the UK equivalent of Conservative). Please don't read any major (or even minor) overall Jewish stance into his viewpoints. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
Erik Reuter wrote: Ok, but AFAIK serious consequences should be something worse than the current siege warfare against Iraq, and I fail to see what can be more serious than a siege if you don't mean war Siege with attitude? Maybe. Bombing Iraq with pamphlets saying that Saddam eats pork? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is the sheriff?
-Mensagem original- De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Para: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Data: Sábado, 15 de Março de 2003 18:00 Assunto: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is the sheriff? ---Original Message--- From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] Authorizes Member States co-operating with the Government of Kuwait, unless Iraq on or before 15 January 1991 fully implements, as set forth in paragraph 1 above, the foregoing resolutions, to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 (1990) and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area; ** Wow! Note the phrase all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area. JDG - Open and Shut, Maru. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l Are we running for the worst quoting technique of the lsit? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
* Andrew Crystall [Sun, 16/03/2003 at 13:10 -] France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority, especially at present. ^ /me doesn't bother to answer. -- Jean-Marc ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Speaking of Bottled Water...
Erik Reuter wrote: On Sun, Mar 16, 2003 at 10:11:40PM +1100, R M Ludenia wrote: In all the posts in this thread, I have only seen mention of bottled water, city water and well (bore?) water. We are dependent on rain water run-off from the roof, collected in a 1 gallon (44Kl) tank. This water tastes much better than town water. Is this a common method of obtaining drinking water elsewhere? I've never heard of it before, but I always wondered why it wasn't more common. What kind of filter(s) does it go through before you drink it? The only filter used is a simple wire mesh to keep remove any leaves. snails etc that may have been washed into the tank. Does the tank cover the whole roof? When it is full, it should have a significant heat capacity -- does that help keep the house from heating up too much on a hot, sunny day? The tank is freestanding about 5m from the house so cannot be used for thermal insulation. The water downpipes from the roof are simply emptied into the tank. A pressure pump then reticulates the water to the house. This is the common method used in Australia outside the cities and towns. In fact, in many towns, people install small rainwater tanks for drinking water, rather than drink the treated town water. Bore water is generally not used for domestic purposes. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
On 16 Mar 2003 at 14:17, Jean-Marc Chaton wrote: * Andrew Crystall [Sun, 16/03/2003 at 13:10 -] France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority, especially at present. ^ /me doesn't bother to answer. sigh minority. I've been up for ~30 hours. If you want to be an idiot, be an idiot. Nothing I don't expect. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: We Can make Fuel Cells Happen
On Sat, Mar 15, 2003 at 09:37:03PM -0800, Gautam Mukunda wrote: Since hydrogen is (as you say) an energy transmission medium, not an existing reservoir of stored energy (as petroleum is), a hydrogen-based economy necessarily requires that someone, somewhere, generate the energy that is stored/transmitted in hydrogen. The ways that I can think of to do this, are, well, the exact same ways we generate energy right now. So what's going on here? Not EXACTLY the same. A coal process called integrated gasifier combined cycle (IGCC) produces H2, CO2 and other emissions (SOx, NOx, etc) but because removing the emissions is easier in this process, I believe it produces less overall emissions than burning oil in a combustion engine. Also, it produces much more concentrated CO2 than the conventional processes, so there is the possibility to capture and sequester the CO2 underground or in sea-beds. But capturing the CO2 is still expensive, and carbon sequestration is not yet a well-developed technology. There are several IGCC plants operating around the world (Tampa, Florida and Terre Haute, Indiana, Netherlands, Spain), but I think they are just burning the H2 and I don't think they are capturing and sequestering the CO2. Still, there is a lot of coal in the ground that will almost certainly be used in developing countries (potentially releasing a lot of greenhouse gases), so this seems like a good technology to pursue simultaneously with nuclear and renewable energy. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is the sheriff?
On Sat, Mar 15, 2003 at 08:19:25PM -, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Are we running for the worst quoting technique of the lsit? No, just talking about reinsurance companies. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Vichy [was: Corrected French history]
I think you both miss a point when discussing France during WW2: France was _defeated_, and _surrendered_ to the Germans. Contrary to common belief, and contrary to what we know about nazism, France was treated with gentleness by the nazis. Probably because according to Hitler's twisted religion, the french were almost aryans. For no other utterly defeated nation, Hitler gave a self-government. So, its natural that the french would have mixed feeling about the nazis - and De Gaulle here was quite heroic in trying to move the french from resignation to an almost suicidal resistence. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bible scholars rejoice at signs
At 10:54 AM 3/15/2003 -0600, you wrote: The Fool wrote: More problematic is the fatalistic worldview of apocalyptic thinking, Hill said. Many who obsess about the end of the world fail to enjoy the life they have or reach out to help others in an effort to improve society, he said. They become morally complacent. This is illustrated by a bumper sticker seen on cars of a few Rapturists: In case of the Rapture, this car will be driverless That's a hell of a thing to inflict on everyone else you're in traffic with! Julia I was going to post the story of the helium filled dolls and the woman climbing out of her sunroof, but it's not a true story. Kevin T. - VRWC ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Israel's Secret Weapon
At 21:20 15-03-03 +, Andy Crystall wrote: Consider - if he does develop WMD and uses them against Israel, Bagdad will be glassed. That is, frankly, the future alternative to a war now. Speaking of Israel and WMD's... Tonight on _Correspondent_ (BBC Two, 19:15 GMT): Israel's Secret Weapon. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/2837671.stm The United States and Britain are preparing to wage war on Iraq, for its undisclosed weapons of mass destruction. Israel's nuclear, biological and chemical capabilities have remained un-inspected. Meanwhile Mordechai Vanunu has been imprisoned for 16 years for exposing Israel's secret nuclear bomb factory to the world. Vanunu is seen as a traitor in his own country. He has been abandoned by most of his family and has spent 11 years in solitary confinement. Today only an American couple, who have legally adopted him, are among the few visitors he is permitted. This film is the story of the bomb, Vanunu and Israel's wall of silence. Jeroen Make love, not war van Baardwijk _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: We Can make Fuel Cells Happen
Andrew Crystall wrote: On 15 Mar 2003 at 21:08, John D. Giorgis wrote: An interesting article on how to make fuel cells a reality: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.04/hydrogen.html I'm sure that Dan M. will have comments... and before he does, here is a counterpoint: http://www.scienceblog.com/community/article1205.html That counterpoint is true as it goes for the current fuel cell designs, but I've read that while initially the cost and weight would be identical several very promising areas of improvement have been identfied. And yes, there's the political aspect. I don't think the right approach is taken to introducing them. AFAIK, it's simple - ban all new cars from using engines which are simple petrol-burning ones after say 2010. Don't push for any particular replacement, let the market sort THAT out. We've tried that here in Ca. with some success - prior to the current administration. Now BushCo has teamed with Ford and GM in a court case that is attempting to use the commerce clause of the US Constitution to void California's right to regulate their own air. So much for strict constructionism. http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/business/5222972.htm Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Inspectors' helicopters leave Iraq amid fears
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/1820896 Most of the helicopters used by U.N. weapons inspectors were flown to Syria today en route to Cyprus, Iraq said, after a Western insurance company suspended its coverage for the aircraft. The move follows growing fears of an imminent U.S.-led invasion as the leaders of the main three nations pushing for military action -- President Bush, Tony Blair of Britain and Jose Maria Aznar of Spain -- were holding an emergency summit today in the Azores islands. Also today, Germany issued a new travel warning urging its citizens to leave Iraq immediately and said it would close its embassy once they left. Diplomatic sources in Baghdad said other European diplomats were scheduled to leave Monday. Saturday, President Saddam Hussein placed Iraq on a war footing, placing his son and three trusted lieutenants in charge of four military regions to defend against any attack. The decree by the Revolutionary Command Council -- Iraq's highest executive body -- appeared to signal Baghdad's resignation that war may have become inevitable. Nonetheless, the government continued its efforts to avert war by destroying more of its banned missiles and handing over videotapes of mobile laboratories to inspectors in compliance with U.N. resolutions. The council placed Saddam's son Qusai in charge of the regime's heartland -- Baghdad and the president's hometown of Tikrit. Qusai has for years been in charge of the elite Republican Guard Corps and his father's own personal security, leading many to speculate that he could be his father's successor. Saddam's cousin Ali Hassan al-Majid was placed in charge of the key southern sector facing U.S. and British troops massed in Kuwait. Al-Majid is known among Saddam's opponents as Chemical Ali for his role in the 1988 campaign against rebellious Kurds in northern Iraq in which thousands of Kurds died, many in chemical attacks. Saddam's deputy, Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, was placed in command of the strategic northern region. An area that includes the Shiite Muslim holy sites of Karbala and Najaf was placed under Mazban Khader Hadi, a member of the ruling Revolutionary Command Council. Saddam himself retained sole authority to order the use of surface-to-surface missiles and aviation resources, the decree said. The U.N. spokesman in Baghdad, Hiro Ueki, said he had no immediate comment on Iraq's announcement that five of the eight U.N. helicopters had departed. They have been used by the inspectors since January to travel across Iraq to visit sites suspected of involvement in the manufacture of weapons of mass destruction. The five that left were U.S.-made Bell-212 helicopters. The three remaining are Russian-made Mi-8s, which are insured by another company and would continue to be used in the inspections, according to a statement by the National Monitoring Directorate, the Iraqi state agency that liaises with the inspectors. Iraq, meanwhile, destroyed more of its banned Al Samoud 2 missiles on Sunday and also handed over videotapes and photographs of mobile laboratories suspected by the United States and Britain of being used to develop or retain biological agents, Ueki said. He gave no details. Inspectors also visited a technology college in the town of Karbala south of Baghdad, according to the Information Ministry. On Saturday, Saddam's scientific adviser, Lt. Gen. Amer al-Saadi, said the government had invited chief U.N. weapons inspectors Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei to Baghdad to discuss outstanding disarmament issues. At U.N. headquarters in New York, Blix said he would study the invitation and discuss it with the council. Asked if the Iraqi invitation was a stunt, he told CNN: I certainly wouldn't call it a stunt. ... We'll have to give serious thought to what the answer will be. With nearly 250,000 U.S. and British troops in the Gulf ready to strike, Iraq has been emboldened by stiff opposition to war at the Security Council, where France and other nations have insisted inspectors should be given more time. An Iraqi newspaper, Al-Jumhuriya, on Sunday gloated over the stiff opposition to U.S. plans, saying the arrogance of force shown by Bush and Blair would not achieve any goals because Iraq is more prepared than ever to confront and defeat any aggression. France, Russia and Germany, meanwhile, issued a joint statement Saturday insisting there was no reason for war, but calling for foreign ministers to meet this week at the Security Council to set a timetable for Iraq to disarm. Monday, Blix is to present the Security Council with his plans for upcoming inspections. He has said recently that Baghdad is showing more proactive cooperation with inspectors, but the United States and its allies insist that Saddam is deceiving the inspectors. Blix and ElBaradei have visited Baghdad twice since the United Nations resumed weapons inspections in Iraq in November after a four-year break. Each time they have pressed the
Re: We Can make Fuel Cells Happen
On 16 Mar 2003 at 8:48, Doug Pensinger wrote: I don't think the right approach is taken to introducing them. AFAIK, it's simple - ban all new cars from using engines which are simple petrol-burning ones after say 2010. Don't push for any particular replacement, let the market sort THAT out. We've tried that here in Ca. with some success - prior to the current administration. Now BushCo has teamed with Ford and GM in a court case that is attempting to use the commerce clause of the US Constitution to void California's right to regulate their own air. So much for strict constructionism. http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/business/5222972.htm Blah. They do have a point that they could use petrol fuel cells, mind you. They're still ~75% more efficient that a straight petrol *burning* engine. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The World's First Brain Prosthesis
From: Han Tacoma [EMAIL PROTECTED] The World's First Brain Prosthesis By DUNCAN GRAHAM-ROWE Posts like these are one of the reasons for being addicted to the list. Thanks, Han. Any device that mimics the brain clearly raises ethical issues. The brain not only affects memory, but your mood, awareness and consciousness - parts of your fundamental identity, says ethicist Joel Anderson at Washington University in St Louis, Missouri. From the article, I understand clearly that the job of the hippocampus appears to be to encode experiences so they can be stored as long-term memories elsewhere in the brain. I also understand that the research team is merely (allegedly) copying its' behavior. But reading about the proposed accuracy of performance of this prosthesis, I can't help but wonder about the fact that if we can break down into such detail the structure of memory patterns, could we apply this technology into simulating them so much that we can implant new ones that may or may have not existed? JJ _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Re: Re: Re: Tropical US Politics [Was Re: br!n: Re: a callto the irregulars!]
At 17:35 15-03-03 -0500, John Giorgis wrote: You're in for a disappointment then. I have it on good authority that anti-Americanism had nothing to do with my criticism. * Whose authority, yours? Heh. Believe me Jeroen, your doing exactly what I would expect of you is hardly a disappointment for me You're obviously not reading what I wrote. You claimed that the motivation for my criticism was most likely anti-Americanism; I explained that this is not the case, therefore it must be a disappointment for you to see yourself proven wrong again (although you should be used to that by now). Prediction: Jeroen's next message will ask me what would I expect. Then you're in for yet another disappointment... GRIN Double-Bonus Prediction: My next message will be my answer: Deny the fact that you have ant-American biases. You claimed that criticism of America's treatment of Puerto Rico equals anti-Americanism; I asked you to prove it. The fact that you outright refuse to do so suggests that you don't really believe it yourself -- after all, if you're so sure that it *does* equal anti-Americanism, you shouldn't have a problem proving it. Jeroen Make love, not war van Baardwijk _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrew Crystall ... France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority, especially at present. The majority of people in France today are neo-Nazis? I'm starting to wonder if I've completely lost my mind. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Re: France's influence
At 17:40 15-03-03 -0500, John Giorgis wrote: I was talking about the opinion of people. In a January Gallup poll, the last one I could find, the numbers were: ** Again, though, I definitely believe that those numbers are skewed by the presence of the UN option. If truly forced to choose between supporting the US in War without UN and opposing the US in war without the UN, I think that those numbers look much differently. This is pure speculation and wishful thinking. But nobody will stop you when you do a poll (as extensive as Gallup's poll) with only the two options you mention. Moreover, I think that the opions of governments are more important that those of polls. I think that this is a prime example of why republican government is preferrable to a direct democratic government as sometimes governments need to make tough decisions that an inexpert populace might not make. Er, John, I think you need to read up on how a democracy works. In a democracy, decisions are not made by the populace but by the politicians that were elected by the populace. Politicians in a democracy aren't any more or any less experts than their counterparts in a republican government. Jeroen Political Observations van Baardwijk _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
At 13:26 16-03-03 +, Andy Crystall wrote: France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority, especially at present. ^ /me doesn't bother to answer. sigh minority. I've been up for ~30 hours. If you want to be an idiot, be an idiot. Nothing I don't expect. Andy, please limit yourself to attacking the *arguments* you disagree with and refrain from attacking the *people* you disagree with. Insulting your opponents does not provide any positive contribution to the discussions whatsoever but only serves to disrupt this list. Thank you for your cooperation. Quote from the Etiquette Guidelines (full text available at www.brin-l.com ): Personal attacks, whether direct or indirect are not welcome. These should be handled off list, and if you disagree with some controversial point, direct the attack at the argument, not the person. Jeroen Architectus Websiticum van Baardwijk _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Israel's Secret Weapon
At 17:21 16-03-03 +0100, I wrote: Tonight on _Correspondent_ (BBC Two, 19:15 GMT): Israel's Secret Weapon. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/2837671.stm The United States and Britain are preparing to wage war on Iraq, for its undisclosed weapons of mass destruction. Israel's nuclear, biological and chemical capabilities have remained un-inspected. Related report: Israeli nuclear 'power' exposed By Olenka Frankiel http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/2841377.stm Jeroen Make love, not war van Baardwijk _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: France's influence
- Original Message - From: Andrew Crystall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 3:20 PM Subject: Re: France's influence On 15 Mar 2003 at 13:05, Dan Minette wrote: I personally think that France may be winning a victory, but that they are losing the War. Their influence will only be reduced after this is all said and done. As the leaders of the contain the US alliance? The only democracy that I know of that favors attacking Iraq without a new specific Security Council resolution authorizing it explicitly is the US. After we go in, probably without GB, this will be a significant force. Rightly or wrongly, many/most people will consider an unconstrained US as the biggest risk to themselves. The UK public and leadership are in favour. So are the Spanish. So are quite a few other Eastern European countries. So thanks for that, Dan. We're not a democracy now it seems. I guess I wasn't clear. I meant that the only democracy where the majority of the people favor going to war without specific UN authorization is the US. The Spanish numbers, back in January, were that 74% were opposed to going to war, even with UN authorization. A March 15th poll by YouGov indicates that support for war without UN authorization is growing in GB, but is still fairly small. 32% approve, while 60% disapprove. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
White House press staff rewrites attributed quote after the fact
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/3/14/13398/1467 White House press staff rewrites attributed quote after the fact (Media) By maynard Sat Mar 15th, 2003 at 09:01:16 AM EST Jonathan Weisman, economics reporter for the Washington Post, admitted in an informal posting on Poynter that the White House demanded he rewrite a quote taken 'off the record' from an unnamed administration official before they would provide approval for final publication. In his post he clearly admits that he [...]violated journalistic ethics, by placing into quotation marks a phrase that was never uttered by the source[...], and then published the story as news. At the time Weisman was writing a story about the now sacked chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, R. Glenn Hubbard, and his economic theories, many of which underpin the administration's $374 billion proposal to end the 'double taxation' of dividends. Part of a $674 billion tax plan offered by the Bush administration, the dividend tax cut would ostensibly help 'jump start' the economy by reducing taxes on investment income. The White House press office agreed to provide an off the record interview on the condition that any quotes published would be e-mailed to the press office for vetting and final approval, which Weisman states has become [...]fairly standard practice. The original quote Weisman obtained reads as, This is probably the most academic proposal ever to come out of an administration., which the press office agreed was fine with a 'small change'. The official, not the source of the original quote, instead suggested the quoted text state, This is probably the purest, most far reaching economic proposal ever to come out of an administration, but Weisman objected since it removed the word academic, which was the primary point of the original statement. The official amended the quote again to, This is probably the purest, most academic, most far reaching economic proposal ever to come out of an administration, and was finally printed with the [...]most far reaching[...] omitted as such: This is probably the purest, most academic ... economic proposal ever to come out of an administration. After publication the White House denounced Weisman for breaking his Journalistic integrity by printing a partial quote that the White House had already request he change after the fact. As made clear in his post, Weisman agrees with their claim that he violated journalistic ethics - but not for the reasons outlined by the administration's press office. In the post he states: I had, of course, violated journalistic ethics, by placing into quotation marks a phrase that was never uttered by the source, ellipses or no ellipses. I had also played ball with the White House using rules that neither I nor any other reporter should be assenting to. I think it is time for all of us to reconsider the way we cover the White House. If administration officials want to speak off the record, they are off the record. If they are on background as an administration official, I suppose that's the best we can expect. But the notion that reporters are routinely submitting quotations for approval, and allowing those quotes to be manipulated to get that approval, strikes me as a step beyond business as usual. [emphasis mine] In this he is clear: quotes are quotes. One does not attribute a quote, even to an unnamed source, that a person did not state. This is among the most basic of journalistic ethics taught in first year Journalism 101 courses. And Weisman's Washington Post editor, Jill Dutt, appears to agree. In a follow-up letter Weisman discusses a conversation he had with his editor in which he states states he was told by her that it is, [...]Post policy not to construct quotes in any way. Quotation marks are sacrosanct; they denote to readers the exact words uttered by a source. As the Washington Post's policy implies, this is not and should not be standard practice. That the White House Press Office would ask, and receive, the right to completely rewrite a quote after the fact indicates a serious conflict of interest and, potentially, a troubling breach of ethical standards by those in the administration's press office. Without further admonishing Weisman or the integrity of the Washington Post for an isolated incident, an important question to ask is not what went so wrong with this story, but is this common practice in the White House Press Pool among other, lesser known, reporters and publications? In their zest and zeal to gain access to policy makers, have journalistic ethics and integrity among reporters and the press degenerated to the point where they allow the administration to rewrite quotes and confabulate the 'news' on a routine basis? And should this be common practice, does this represent anything resembling a free press? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: We Can make Fuel Cells Happen
On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 21:08:55 -0500 (EST), John D. Giorgis wrote: An interesting article on how to make fuel cells a reality: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.04/hydrogen.html I'm sure that Dan M. will have comments... and before he does, here is a counterpoint: http://www.scienceblog.com/community/article1205.html Very interesting articles. However, as in many of these types of articles, I feel too much emphasis is put on the development of fuel cells. While they have the potential to be much more efficient than internal combustion or gas turbine engines, they are not necessary to begin a shift to a hydrogen infrastructure. Traditional engines can be converted for use with hydrogen or even duel fuel gas/hydrogen. Don't get me wrong. fuel cell development should merit a large investment during the shift, however, immediate attention to the storage problem, and development of the infrastructure should be a priority and that won't happen without a market. And the market won't be there for a while, in my opinion anyway, if we wait for affordable fuel cells. Start the shift now and when fuel cells are in place, the infrastructure will be there to support it. Speaking of Apollo scale projects, here is another one I came across recently. Calculating Hydrogen Production Costs http://evworld.com/databases/storybuilder.cfm?storyid=502subcookie=1 Author urges massive, urgent shift to wind-power generated hydrogen. Dean ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: France's influence
On 16 Mar 2003 at 11:41, Dan Minette wrote: A March 15th poll by YouGov indicates that support for war without UN authorization is growing in GB, but is still fairly small. 32% approve, while 60% disapprove. Who are YouGov? Not seen a poll by them before. And what precisely was the question? Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The World's First Brain Prosthesis
On 16 Mar 2003 at 17:06, Jose J. Ortiz-Carlo wrote: From: Han Tacoma [EMAIL PROTECTED] The World's First Brain Prosthesis By DUNCAN GRAHAM-ROWE Posts like these are one of the reasons for being addicted to the list. Thanks, Han. Any device that mimics the brain clearly raises ethical issues. The brain not only affects memory, but your mood, awareness and consciousness - parts of your fundamental identity, says ethicist Joel Anderson at Washington University in St Louis, Missouri. From the article, I understand clearly that the job of the hippocampus appears to be to encode experiences so they can be stored as long-term memories elsewhere in the brain. I also understand that the research team is merely (allegedly) copying its' behavior. But reading about the proposed accuracy of performance of this prosthesis, I can't help but wonder about the fact that if we can break down into such detail the structure of memory patterns, could we apply this technology into simulating them so much that we can implant new ones that may or may have not existed? The problem is what is memory. We don't really understand much about memory in the context of how the brain actually *stores* it. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
On 16 Mar 2003 at 9:14, Nick Arnett wrote: France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority, especially at present. The majority of people in France today are neo-Nazis? I'm starting to wonder if I've completely lost my mind. Once again, it was a misstype - minority. I was thinking of something else (related to support by certain countries for Israel) at the time and I made a mystake. It is, however, a signifiant minority. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: We Can make Fuel Cells Happen
Gautam said: The ways that I can think of to do this, are, well, the exact same ways we generate energy right now. So what's going on here? I think most people talking about hydrogen economies envisage some scheme for producing hydrogen using sunlight, perhaps by using some helpful organism that can do this. The hydrogen itself would be a useful way to store energy for use in vehicles or to transport it around for use in fixed sites. I suppose this is really how the hydrocarbon economy works, just with a much larger gap between the storage of solar energy in chemical form and its eventual release. I think that when we eventually get to the stage of colonising other star systems, we'll do the same with antimatter, producing it here in the Solar System using fusion or solar power and taking advantage of its its extremely high release of energy per unit mass to achieve much better starship performance than we can manage in fusion-powered ships. Rich ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Deadlier Than War
John G said: JDG - Who wonders if France would oppose Spiderman's unilateralism in pursuit of criminals. I'm not overly familiar with the Spiderman mythos, but don't lots of Americans oppose Spiderman's unilateralism in pursuit of criminals? He is, after all, a vigilante. Rich ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Nick Arnett Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 9:14 AM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrew Crystall ... France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority, especially at present. The majority of people in France today are neo-Nazis? I'm starting to wonder if I've completely lost my mind. Okay, now I realize what you meant to write. Sorry, had just woken up and should have known. I don't mean to diminish the significance of right-wing extremists in France and hope that nothing I've written suggests that it is not a meaningful political issue. As I wrote earlier, it goes back to the revolution itself, before which anybody who wasn't French and Catholic was terribly discriminated against. There is a fundamental difference between the U.S. and French traditions of democracy. Although they were contemporaneous, with similar goals and values, our country was much more free to embrace the ideals of democracy because we were not shrugging off an aristocracy. There was no U.S. tradition to contend with, in other words. France still retains some aspects of aristocracy that never existed here. For example, here in Silicon Valley, we get a number of French executives whose primary motivation for relocating is that it is almost impossible to be an entrepreneur in France. In the upper circles of power, the position you were born into still matters far more than it ever has in the United States. There's also the matter of French preservation of language and culture. It is a country where it can be illegal to use a foreign word in business. When computers first became widely available, phrases such as le software and le hardware came into use, but the French authorities stomped out that sort of thing (making me almost illiterate when I try to speak about technical matters in French). That which is not French is resisted, which historically extended to ethnic and religious differences and unfortunately persists today. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Erik Reuter ... in an earlier thread, certainly looks to me like you picked this fight. Absolutely. I jumped into the thread because I found what I read to be important and inaccurate. So, sure, I started the argument, quite deliberately. It bothers me greatly to see a war being justified by unfair characterizations of an entire nation, a nation that I probably know better than any outside the U.S., with the possible exception of some of Latin America. And I probably do have a soft spot for France -- French is the only second language I've ever learned well (starting when I was 10 years old and hated it), my father fought there in WWII and made lifelong friends who treat me like family, I proposed to my wife in the middle of Notre Dame cathedral, I love the food there, and I can make a pate de foie gras en croute that even a wealthy, somewhat snooty Frenchman complimented (although he's actually Basque, so maybe he doesn't count). And Gautam's comments about gratitude hit hardest, since I've been personally thanked so many times by French strangers. I am quite uncertain of how to respond to idea that my criticisms imply an accusation of facism, so perhaps I blew that. And you criticizing someone for dropping names??? Next, will you be criticizing someone for defending their argument with their resume? Who one had lunch with doesn't have any bearing on an argument unless that person provided authoritative, germane information at lunch. Otherwise all it says is, I hang out with important people, therefore I must be important. I know a lot about this; I'm often inclined to do the same and have worked pretty hard to break the habit. It comes from being surprised that one is privileged enough to associate with the powerful, which is to say that its roots are in self-esteem deficiencis. I'm talking about my own issues now. The same Frenchman who appreciated my foie gras did a great deal to help me recognize and deal with that (in a typically blunt and demanding French manner!). His usual line was, Nobody cares. Irritated the hell out of me, but it eventually got through. Here's how google translated that :-) You speak the French history like a cow about right-hand side. And if you understand (without assistance), perhaps you know liked that I think. I used a couple of idioms in the first sentence, so that automatic translators would not do well. There are probably volumes written about the use of cows in French idoms, puns and jokes. I don't get most of them, but the one I've alluded to here is probably the most common. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
* Andrew Crystall [Sun, 16/03/2003 at 13:26 +] On 16 Mar 2003 at 14:17, Jean-Marc Chaton wrote: * Andrew Crystall [Sun, 16/03/2003 at 13:10 -] France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority, especially at present. ^ /me doesn't bother to answer. sigh minority. Excuse me, I didn't read past the first line, so missed the fact you made a slip I've been up for ~30 hours. If you want to be an idiot, be an idiot. Nothing I don't expect. ^ Is that me ? -- Jean-Marc ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
---Original Message--- From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] There's also the matter of French preservation of language and culture. It is a country where it can be illegal to use a foreign word in business. When computers first became widely available, phrases such as le software and le hardware came into use, but the French authorities stomped out that sort of thing *** Interesting to note that if these policies were carried out anywhere else in the world, we probably would have one word to describe them: racism. JDG - French Exception, Maru. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
---Original Message--- From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] There's also the matter of French preservation of language and culture. It is a country where it can be illegal to use a foreign word in business. When computers first became widely available, phrases such as le software and le hardware came into use, but the French authorities stomped out that sort of thing *** Interesting to note that if these policies were carried out anywhere else in the world, we probably would have one word to describe them: racism. JDG - French Exception, Maru. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Re: Re: France's influence
---Original Message--- From: J. van Baardwijk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Er, John, I think you need to read up on how a democracy works. In a democracy, decisions are not made by the populace but by the politicians that were elected by the populace. ROTFLOL! You crack me up. :) JDG ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Re: Re: France's influence
---Original Message--- From: J. van Baardwijk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Er, John, I think you need to read up on how a democracy works. In a democracy, decisions are not made by the populace but by the politicians that were elected by the populace. ROTFLOL! You crack me up. :) JDG ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: France's influence
- Original Message - From: Andrew Crystall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 12:17 PM Subject: Re: France's influence On 16 Mar 2003 at 11:41, Dan Minette wrote: A March 15th poll by YouGov indicates that support for war without UN authorization is growing in GB, but is still fairly small. 32% approve, while 60% disapprove. Who are YouGov? Not seen a poll by them before. And what precisely was the question? http://www.yougov.com/ If the UN does NOT back the use of force against Iraq, and the United States launches such an action, should Britain contribute troops to the US-led action? It was quoted in the Sunday Times. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The Arrogant Empire
http://www.msnbc.com/news/885222.asp?0cv=KA01cp1=1 Americas unprecedented power scares the world, and the Bush administration has only made it worse. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Pennsylvania Nursing Home Tax
State Raises Idea Of Nursing Home Tax Budget Announcement Set For March 25 POSTED: 6:28 p.m. EST March 12, 2003 UPDATED: 6:19 p.m. EST March 14, 2003 Though no written proposal has been made, WTAE's Kelly Frey reports that members of the Rendell administration are discussing a potential $5-per-bed daily fee on nursing homes as a way to help balance the state budget. Such a fee would require homes to shell out $1,825 per patient each year. It is generating plenty of discussion within the care industry. Barbara Gottlieb, administrator for the nonprofit Jewish Association on Aging, which has homes in Squirrel Hill, says her agency would have to pay an additional $300,000 each year if the tax became a reality. It's very shocking, Gottlieb said. My stomach wrenched. Where do you get that knid of money from? The patients? You either have to take it from the people who pay privately or reduce services, and that's very frightening. The Pennsylvania Association of Nonprofit Homes for the Aging, which represents about 65,000 people statewide, also opposes the idea. Let's call it what it is. It's a resident tax, because the residents who pay for their own care will be paying for it, said a statement released by PANPHA. The Pennsylvania Health Care Association, which was the only group consulted by the Rendell administration, is endorsing the idea. Alan Rosenbloom, of the PHCA, said many states use a similar fee to boost their share of federal matching dollars for Medicaid programs. Facilities who admit more Medicaid patients will be better off, he said. Gov. Ed Rendell announced part of his planned budget last week and is expected to unveil the rest of his proposals March 25. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: France's influence
On 16 Mar 2003 at 13:06, Dan Minette wrote: On 16 Mar 2003 at 11:41, Dan Minette wrote: A March 15th poll by YouGov indicates that support for war without UN authorization is growing in GB, but is still fairly small. 32% approve, while 60% disapprove. Who are YouGov? Not seen a poll by them before. And what precisely was the question? http://www.yougov.com/ If the UN does NOT back the use of force against Iraq, and the United States launches such an action, should Britain contribute troops to the US-led action? Ahh. I imagined that the question would be something like that. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
On 16 Mar 2003 at 10:21, Nick Arnett wrote: France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority, especially at present. The majority of people in France today are neo-Nazis? I'm starting to wonder if I've completely lost my mind. Okay, now I realize what you meant to write. Sorry, had just woken up and should have known. I don't mean to diminish the significance of right-wing extremists in France and hope that nothing I've written suggests that it is not a meaningful political issue. As I wrote earlier, it goes back to the I don't see it as political. This is because, simply of my background. I see in terms of threat. There are constant attacks against Jews in many forms in France, far worse than the small slips in the media which constitute the majority of attacks in the UK. I also don't tend to get on personally with the French. I was living a few years back with a French Jew, and there was an incident when he pulled a knife in me (for which I got the blame, since the witness came it about the time I took the knife and showed the Frenchman the floor). in France. In the upper circles of power, the position you were born into still matters far more than it ever has in the United States. I won't say it's entirely unimportant over here - it helps, certainly. There's also the matter of French preservation of language and culture. It is a country where it can be illegal to use a foreign word in business. When computers first became widely available, I've never really understood this. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 11:05:53 -0500 (EST), John D. Giorgis wrote: ---Original Message--- From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] There's also the matter of French preservation of language and culture. It is a country where it can be illegal to use a foreign word in business. When computers first became widely available, phrases such as le software and le hardware came into use, but the French authorities stomped out that sort of thing *** Interesting to note that if these policies were carried out anywhere else in the world, we probably would have one word to describe them: racism. While the word software was recently invented, and the French have had their own word for hardware for quite some time, I think racism is a bit extreme. I am assuming France has only the one official language. Dean ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrew Crystall ... There's also the matter of French preservation of language and culture. It is a country where it can be illegal to use a foreign word in business. When computers first became widely available, I've never really understood this. Nobody does! I'm not so sure that the French do. And who can explain the whole cow thing? Actually, I suppose it is representative of the frequent use of agricultural metaphors, like my little cabbage, as a term of endearment. France is sort of like Japan. You spend a month or two there and you think you understand the culture. But after a few more months, you realize that you don't have a clue about most of it. On the other hand they are opposites -- the Japanese tend to assimilate foreign culture and the French resist it. People are so... weird. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: RE: Deadlier Than War
- Original Message - From: Jean-Marc Chaton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 6:33 AM Subject: Re: RE: Deadlier Than War * Dan Minette [Sat, 15/03/2003 at 11:26 -0600] No. I talked about bombing innocent civils. Sometimes force has to be counterd by force, military against military. But, if one tries as hard as possible to limit damage to military targets, civilians will still be killed. Especially, if one's opponent knows that one is trying to avoid killing civilians and uses them as shields for military assets. So, given that fact, must we chose not to go after any military targets? Yes, it's my opinion, if there's a risk a Just should refrain. OK, then just people cannot fight a war. There is no way to know if the other side does or does not have civilians among their soldiers. If that is your position, I can accept that. However, I cannot accept the idea that it is possible to fight any war guaranteeing that civilians will not be killed. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
--- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vous parlez l'histoire Francais comme une vache de droite. Et si vous comprenez (sans assistance), peut-etre vous connaissez plue que je pense. (Which probably has some errors, but I don't get to practice much these days, despite almost a decade of studying French and France.) Nick Mais tu parles l'histoire Francais comme un imbecile arrogant, pour je parle francais aussi. I don't get to practice much either, but I can still read and write the stuff. Despite, in my case, _also_ almost a decade studying French and France. At least it took for one of us. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
--- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vous parlez l'histoire Francais comme une vache de droite. Et si vous comprenez (sans assistance), peut-etre vous connaissez plue que je pense. Here's how google translated that :-) You speak the French history like a cow about right-hand side. And if you understand (without assistance), perhaps you know liked that I think. Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, I translated it, without google, as You speak of the history of France like a right-wing cow. And if you understand that (without assistance), perhaps you know what I think. Stanley would be proud of me - it's been five years since I tried to read or write French... Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
--- Jean-Marc Chaton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Andrew Crystall [Sun, 16/03/2003 at 13:10 -] France has a VERY strong Neo-Nazi majority, especially at present. ^ /me doesn't bother to answer. -- Jean-Marc I think he means minority. TO which I disagree, btw. I don't think France has any significant neo-Nazi minority. Most of the (many) anti-Semitic acts that have happened recently in France are a product of unassimilated Arab immigrants, not most Frenchmen. I think that France's hostility to Israel is _partly_ driven by anti-semitism, but it's all the sort that, in the US, would be called WASP Anti-semitism - very polite and dripping with condescension, not the sort that burns down synagogues. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
--- Jean-Marc Chaton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Gautam Mukunda [Sat, 15/03/2003 at 20:12 -0800] You forgot to mention that Germans had 1.5 Millions French hostages held in captivity in Germany. Well, sure. Shit happened to a lot of people in the Second World War. That doesn't change a moral obligation to _do_ something. Denmark managed. The Serbs were oppressed by the Croatian Ustasi, a secret police so nasty that they frightened Hitler - but they still ran the most effective partisan campaign of the war. The Russians had _20 million_ of their own civilians killed as Hitler ran, essentially, a war of extermination against the Russian population, and they still ran a fabled partisan campaign as well. Poland lost _one-third of its population_ during the war, and the Polish resistance was clearly more effective than France's as well. Of all of the countries that Hitler conquered, France probably had the weakest internal resistance. That said the Vichy government was the disgusting reunion of a bunch of far rightists and catholics, catholics whose official stance at the time was Jews were guilty of having killed Jesus. That said it's completely true that the government at that time could have saved a lot more of people. It's also true that that part of history has been downplayed for decades, but that's true that the current society had had the courage to review the period and even tried a former Vichy prefect. Yeah, but it also elected Francois Mitterand, a former Vichy official, so that's kind of a mixed bag, isn't it? I'm not denying the (tremendous) courage of individual Frenchmen who resisted, or the remarkable feats of Charles de Gaulle - who, among other things, might have bee the best armor officer of the war, if he'd only ever gotten a chance to prove it - but French society, as a whole, didn't seem to care. You can't just dismiss Vichy as right-wing cows - Marshall Petain was a national hero. The closest equivalent would be, I don't know, Colin Powell or something like that. Jean-Marc Nick had the example of what if the US was conquered and the Aryan nations started butchering Jews. That's exactly wrong. It's, what if the US was conquered and the Council of Foreign Relations started butchering Jews? That would be different. Even more would be - what if that happened, and there was no significant resistance to it in the US? No one did anything important to stop it? And neighboring, similarly conquered countries (like Denmark), _did_ manage to save their Jews, and did fight to stop it? That would be an accurate analogy. From that, I don't think it's unfair to draw a judgment, and my judgment is that, overall, the population of France at the time wasn't going to get too worked up over killing Jews. Did individual Frenchmen do something? Yes. But across the society this was a moral failure on a catastrophic scale. What this has to do with Iraq, I have no idea. Does anti-semitism play a role in French policy in the Middle East? Surely. More important is fear of unassimilated Arab immigrants in France - the strategy of Let's let millions of people in and then treat them like shit apparently not working out too well. But France's opposition to the war has been carried to a point where it seems clearly motivated largely by a desire to (secondarily) wound the US as much as possible and (primarily) break British influence in the EU to transform it into a Franco-German Co-Dominion. Neither of these is the act of a _friend_, to put it mildly. Or how would you feel if your friend threatened other friends of yours to prevent them from helping you out? That wasn't just Chirac snapping, that's clearly the policy of the French government. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
--- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And you criticizing someone for dropping names??? Next, will you be criticizing someone for defending their argument with their resume? Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have to admit, it didn't occur to me until afterwards that Father Rutler would count as dropping names - I'm not Catholic, and his presence in Catholic circles wasn't something I was really aware of. He's just a friend of mine to me. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Re: Re: France's influence
At 11:12 16-03-03 -0500, John Giorgis wrote: Er, John, I think you need to read up on how a democracy works. In a democracy, decisions are not made by the populace but by the politicians that were elected by the populace. ROTFLOL! You crack me up. :) It must have cracked you up bigtime, given that you sent that message to the list THREE times. Trying to regain your position as Alpha-Mail, perhaps? Oh well, at least today you learned something about how democracy works -- so my attempts at getting through to you weren't a *complete* waste of time, effort and bandwidth. Jeroen -- who realises that this particular message from JDG was only posted *on-list* because MailWasher is bouncing his *off-list* messages. _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
At 11:05 16-03-03 -0500, John Giorgis wrote: There's also the matter of French preservation of language and culture. It is a country where it can be illegal to use a foreign word in business. When computers first became widely available, phrases such as le software and le hardware came into use, but the French authorities stomped out that sort of thing *** Interesting to note that if these policies were carried out anywhere else in the world, we probably would have one word to describe them: racism. Apples and oranges. Language purism is something wildly different from racism. Jeroen Make love, not war van Baardwijk _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Pulling out of Germany and the ROK L3! Re: [Fwd: Water conservation]
Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is an indication that the administration is considering pulling troops out of S. Korea and reducing the force in W. Europe. Given the statements of the governments of S. Korea and Germany, it seems that the administration is thinking about a redefinition of its role in the world. It won't abandon the world and retreat into fortress US, but it may no longer be available to fight the main surge of a N. Korean attack. It might also move out of all of its German bases to a friendlier location in E. Europe, with a scaled back presence. My guess is that this will now be coupled with why is this my problem? response to issues like the Balkans. The US would intervene when world peace is at stake, but special attention to certain areas of the world would be reduced. Dan M. So, let's talk about this a little bit. Is this a good idea or not? Actually, I'd suggest that this is a discussion in two parts. 1. Is this a good idea _for the United States_? I think that it is a slightly bad idea for the US to pull out of Germany. From a purely strategic-location perspective, if there is any justification for the US keeping troops in Europe, it would be in Eastern Europe, since the next European crises/conflicts will likely involve the Balkans, Belarus, the Rep. of Moldova, Ukraine, or Russia, in roughly that order of likeliness. Now, I know very little about what sort of *facilities* we actually have in Europe, but it seems like whenever US soldiers get hurt in the Middle East, the first stop is always Rammstein in Germany - so I don't know how difficult it would be to duplicate those facilities in another country. Likewise, if we had a Prince Sultan-style airbase in Germany, it probably wouldn't be worthwhile to try and move something like that. With that being said, however, we need to sort of probe/pressure Germany to find out if they are fundamentally going to align themselves as a friend of the United States or if they are going to fundamentally align themselves with the French as our enemy. Just one year ago, I was very hopefull about the direction Germany was taking - especially as they began to finally support military ventures outside their borders in the Balkans, and then in Afghanistan. It was possible that true strategic relationship could be produced with a US-German pillarship of NATO. The US would specialize in being the thunder and lightning of offensive operations, and the Germans would specialize in peackeeping (two fairly different skill sets.) (The UK would sort of blue a glue between them, participating in both.) I still have hope that this could materialize, especially was Schroeder gets bounced but it is a fundamental question that the US needs to answer. Keeping US troops in Germany may help keep Germany aligned as our friend, in which case keeping our troops in Germany will be well worth it, even with no other strategic value.On the other hand, if Germany is going to align itself with France as our enemy, the possibility of Germany, paralyzing any assets we keep in Germany over the long-term, as the US becomes embroiled in some future conflict, is frightening enough that it would be prudent to place our military assets in countries that are more likely to be fundamentally aligned with our strategic vision, and indeed, just aligned with us as friends in the future. As for Dan's fear that pulling out of Germany will lead to the US calling future Balkan-style conflicts not our problem, I see this as being unlikely - especially under the current Administration. Not only do I truly believe that the Bush sees the world through a moral vision, but I believe that there is a fundamental recognition that failed States are a primary source of our most significant strategic threat of the moment - international terrorism. I think that the US will be very wary of letting any more failed States arrise (and I think that this is a primary reason the US is willing to let Palestine languish under occupation until it democratizes... the US feels safer letting Israel occupy Palestine than to force Israel to create a Palestinian State that would essentially be a corrupt and failing dictatorship.) Anyhow, it looks like we may get to test this prediction of mine fairly soon*, as reports this week indicate that Papua New Guinea, already one of the world's poorest countries, is on the verge of collapse. We'll see how the US reacts... although with one out of every one thousand Americans in the Persian Gulf, are hands are a bit tied at the moment. As for pulling out of the ROK, I think that it would be a very bad idea. As many of you know, my basic strategic forecast for the future is that China is the greatest long-term threat to US interests, and as China develops, I expect Cold War II to ensue between the US and China in
RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
At 11:19 16-03-03 -0800, Nick Arnett wrote: People are so... weird. Nah. All of us are normal, it's just you who's weird. :-) Jeroen Jokes'R'Us van Baardwijk _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
At 12:37 16-03-03 -0800, Gautam Mukunda wrote: Mais tu parles l'histoire Francais comme un imbecile arrogant, pour je parle francais aussi. It's been twenty years since my last French class, but somewhat to my surprise I had no problem translating that sentence to English. I could also tell that it is insulting... Gautam, please limit yourself to attacking the *arguments* you disagree with and refrain from attacking the *people* you disagree with. Insulting your opponents does not provide any positive contribution to the discussions whatsoever but only serves to disrupt this list. Thank you for your cooperation. Quote from the Etiquette Guidelines (full text available at www.brin-l.com ): Personal attacks, whether direct or indirect are not welcome. These should be handled off list, and if you disagree with some controversial point, direct the attack at the argument, not the person. Jeroen Architectus Websiticum van Baardwijk _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Israel's Secret Weapon
At 17:21 16-03-03 +0100, I wrote: Tonight on _Correspondent_ (BBC Two, 19:15 GMT): Israel's Secret Weapon. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/2837671.stm The United States and Britain are preparing to wage war on Iraq, for its undisclosed weapons of mass destruction. Israel's nuclear, biological and chemical capabilities have remained un-inspected. Damn. The news report on the Azores Summit took about 15 minutes longer than scheduled, so the BBC had to rearrange their scheduled programming for the rest of the evening. For those interested, _Israel's Secret Weapon_ will be aired tomorrow (Monday) on BBC Two at the ungodly hour of 23:20 GMT (which, in my timezone, is the even more ungodly time of 00:20 hours). Unless of course the War For Oil.. er... I mean Gulf War III breaks out before that time... Jeroen Make love, not war van Baardwijk _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Monday deadline looms for agreement on Iraq
http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStoryc =StoryFTcid=1045511685949p=1012571727092 War against Iraq appeared to be all but inevitable after the leaders of the US, Britain and Spain on Sunday night set a deadline of Monday night for fading diplomatic efforts to win United Nations support for their hardline stance. At an emergency summit in the Azores islands in mid-Atlantic, President George W. Bush and prime ministers Tony Blair and José Maria Aznar said they would abandon the quest for a new Security Council resolution authorising military action if agreement had not been reached by the end of Monday. Tomorrow is a moment of truth for the world, said a sombre President George W. Bush. He said it was time for the international community to stand by its commitment to peace and security by supporting the immediate and unconditional disarmament of Saddam Hussein. We have reached the point of decision, said Mr Blair. With bargaining at the UN over a British-sponsored resolution at a near standstill since last Friday, the hastily-arranged summit had the air of a council of war rather than a final push for a diplomatic solution. All the signs were that Mr Bush was readying to launch military action, possibly later this week. He spoke of US plans for rebuilding Iraq after a war, including supplying humanitarian relief and economic support. Clearly the president is going to have to make a very, very difficult decision here in the next few days, said Dick Cheney, vice-president, in Washington. The chief remaining hope for the avoidance of war appeared to be if Mr Hussein agreed to go into exile, something to date he has shown no sign of accepting. If Saddam Hussein and his sons and a number of other leaders leave . . . war can certainly be avoided, said Colin Powell, US secretary of state. War would be the riskiest venture of Mr Bush's presidency. But it poses a huge immediate political threat to Mr Blair, Mr Bush's closest international ally. He needed a new UN resolution to overcome widespread domestic opposition to war and avert a damaging rebellion within his own Labour government. The chances of a last-minute agreement at the UN appeared slim. Britain has made little headway in the push for a second resolution setting a deadline of days for Iraq to disarm - in compliance with last November's resolution 1441 - since France said it would veto the proposals whatever the circumstances. France, Russia and Germany issued a joint statement ahead of the Azores summit saying there remained room for diplomacy - and warning against force. Jacques Chirac, French president, signalled in an interview with US television that he would be prepared to shorten the deadline for Iraq to disarm to as little as 30 days. He called for a meeting of foreign ministers at the Security Council today to discuss the issue. France had earlier suggested a 120-day timetable. But the proposal was abruptly dismissed by US officials who said giving Mr Hussein any more time would make no difference. Right now I don't see what purpose is to be served by another meeting when the disagreements are so fundamental, said Mr Powell. Iraq is playing the United Nations and playing some of our friends in the permanent membership of the Security Council like a fiddle. The military build-up continued over the weekend. US officials insisted they were ready for action if ordered with 225,000 US and more than 40,000 British troops massed mainly in and around Kuwait. A total of 1,000 warplanes and 130 warships are also in place to join any attack. xponent Definitely Not On Their Timeline Maru rob Along the drifting cloud the eagle searching down on the land Catching the swirling wind the sailor sees the rim of the land The eagles dancing wings create as weather spins out of hand ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Changes At The Top -- March 16, 2003
Once again, there has been some moving-around in the Top-10 of the Alpha-Mail Statistics. 1. Julia Thompson 5,378 2. John Giorgis 4,326 3. Jeroen van Baardwijk 3,987 4. Dan Minette3,259 (switched places with Gord Sellar) 5. Gord Sellar3,248 (switched places with Dan Minette) 6. Alberto Monteiro 3,083 7. Ronn Blankenship 2,957 8. Steve Sloan2,820 9. Robert Seeberger 2,730 10. Marvin Long2,151 (switched places with Bob Zimmerman) Total number of posts: 107,899 Welcome to the Brin-L Elite, Marvin! :-) As usual, the full Alpha-Mail Statistics can be found in the Statistics Section at www.brin-l.com. Jeroen Architectus Tabularium van Baardwijk _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Fwd: my website's up!
The long-time listmembers will remember one of the most prolific members from Brin-L's past: Gord Sax Sellar. It took a while, but he finally got himself a web presence: Hey everyone. I just thought I would announce two things; the first is that after several weeks of busy work, my website is finally up. The address is: www.gordsellar.com and if you go look there you can see all kinds of stuff: some of my writing, a sample of my music, pictures, and so on. The only section that is basically under construction now is the esl page, where I will put teaching materials when I get to it, and the text section where there are still a few essays I need to finish off and post. Everything else is as it will be for a while. Check the photo gallery, you may be there. And by the way, if you're not, don't be sad. Scanning pics is slow work and I haven't uploaded everything quite yet. The other thing is that my email address has now changed. It is now [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please make the necessary changes to your address book! Gord Jeroen Those were the days van Baardwijk _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Heinlein and current international politics L3
On Sunday, March 16, 2003 8:10 AM, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 15 Mar 2003 at 22:59, Han Tacoma wrote: My opinion is that the French have the same misgivings as the American Jewish community has: I retract my _generalization_ of the American Jewish Community in the context that I used it. When I quoted from the New York Times, http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/15/national/15JEWS.html?th I choose only one of the four (4) branches that Hannah Rosenthal, executive director of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs described, -- Reconstructionist; Reform; Conservative; and Orthodox, in the article to make the point: the United States had 'gravely weakened the institutions of internationalism so painstakingly erected after the Second World War'. | But some Jews are increasingly concerned about the lack of | widespread international support for a pre-emptive strike, and | skeptical that the United States can create a stable post-war | government in Iraq. | | Rabbi Ismar Schorsch, chancellor of the Jewish Theological | Seminary of America, the academic and spiritual center | of Conservative Judaism, said at a lecture this week, We live in a Ahem. Some points - he is conservative. His views also only reprisent a proportion of the *conservative* Jewish views. (I am Masorti, which is roughly the UK equivalent of Conservative). Please don't read any major (or even minor) overall Jewish stance into his viewpoints. I realize that Rabbi Schorsch's views are his. While you don't indicate what you mean by proportion (i.e. a percentage), it seems to me that you are using the word as an implication -- that it is a minority -- to justify your opinion that one should not read a stance. While holding the posistion he does, I would hardly see him offering a view that would contradict the feelings of the majority of that branch of conservatives, and therefore I accept his statement as representative of that branch. Cheers! -- Han Tacoma ~ Artificial Intelligence is better than none! ~ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Heinlein and current international politics L3
On 16 Mar 2003 at 18:10, Han Tacoma wrote: On Sunday, March 16, 2003 8:10 AM, Andrew Crystall wrote: I realize that Rabbi Schorsch's views are his. While you don't indicate what you mean by proportion (i.e. a percentage), it seems to me that you are using the word as an implication -- that it is a minority -- to justify your opinion that one should not read a stance. While holding the posistion he does, I would hardly see him offering a view that would contradict the feelings of the majority of that branch of conservatives, and therefore I accept his statement as representative of that branch. Understand that conservative Judaism is not especially internally coherent in it's views (and while I would describe myself to Americas as conservative) is is not precisely a large organisation even among American Jews. The word conservative is somewhat of a misnomer, really. We essentially believe much as the ortherdox do, but we go back to the source (the bible) for rabinical interpretations rather than re- interpret allready old rulings. And we're more interested in the spirit rather than the letter. That's not how all Conservative/Masorti would put it either. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The World's First Brain Prosthesis
William Taylor wrote: My first thought about a hippocampus is where are they going to find cheerleaders that can do the splits. Sometimes I can't seem to turn it off That's ok. Even though I don't tend to reply to your puns, I always enjoy reading them. A real question, but still not on the very serious side: Will this be just one more thing that'll set off airport security alarms? LOL! An interesting question... Reggie Bautista No Value Added Maru _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Nation States
* - Well, the tiny Pacific island state of Nauru (primary export - fossilized bird guano) collapsed two weeks ago, but it is too small and isolated for its collapse to matter to just about anybody but the Nauruans. So who all is still playing Nation States? I ignored my nation so long that it ceased to exist and I had to create another one. Also, what is that region that everyone defected to? Gary ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Ah...My Favorite Topic - Books (Was Question about Spoilers)
Julia wrote: What are your favorites of all the Hugo novels? George A. replied: Tough question! [top 5 snipped] Worst (IMO) tie - 1963The Man in the High CastlePhilip K. Dick So it's not just me! I've never gotten more than about a third of the way through it. I'm generally a PKD fan, but this one just does nothing for me. Reggie Bautista _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bible scholars rejoice at signs
Trent Shipley wrote: Mennonite theolgy implies that anyone who expects to be among those Raputured is in grave danger of not being raptured due to egregious pride That is, those who are certain that they are among the elect, aren't. Something about pride goeth-ing before the fall? This would be not far off from the mainstream of *many* non-fundamentalist Christian traditions. I'm (more or less) Roman Catholic, and this concept is not alien to me at all. I have some fundamentalist friends, however, who are sure that you can't get to heaven unless you have a deep-down certainty in your heart that that's where you're going. And don't get me started on the idea of the rapture... Reggie Bautista Lower Case r Used On Purpose Maru _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Children of Dune
Anyone watching this tonight? How about Riverworld next week? xponent Skiffy Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: This sub-thread has really degraded Re: Iran's Nuclear Threat
Nick wrote: My grandfather was Glaswegian. And I never miss an opportunity to say, Glaswegian, just because it's such a fine word. Julia replied: And I like that word -- Glaswegian. It *is* a fine word. I'll look for an excuse to use it. The Glaswegians have lots of fine word and phrases: From Itchy Edinburgh, gab like a glaswegian, the itchy guide to speaking fluent weegie! http://www.itchyedinburgh.co.uk/articles/166.html Reggie Bautista Am Boltin, See Ye The Morra Maru _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Re: Re: France's influence
---Original Message--- From: J. van Baardwijk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Er, John, I think you need to read up on how a democracy works. In a democracy, decisions are not made by the populace but by the politicians that were elected by the populace. No, that is the definition of a _republic_. In a true democracy, the people vote directly on all issues. -- Ronn! :) Your message here! (Call for rates.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Trolling vs. healthy debates
How do we differentiate trolling from engaging in a healthy debate about any given issue? Sometimes I feel that the line separating these is an extremely fine one and hard to find. Any opinions out there? Cheers! -- Han Tacoma ~ Artificial Intelligence is better than none! ~ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Changes At The Top -- March 16, 2003
At 11:41 PM 3/16/03 +0100, J. van Baardwijk wrote: Once again, there has been some moving-around in the Top-10 of the Alpha-Mail Statistics. 1. Julia Thompson 5,378 . . . 7. Ronn Blankenship 2,957 Well, I see I've finally passed 50% of Julia's total . . . ;-) -- Ronn! :) Your message here! (Call for rates.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
Erik Reuter wrote: Great idea! I'll look into it. I've never been to a town meeting (or know where and when they are held here), but this is a good time to find that information and attend one. Watch your local paper for information on it. Or contact your representative. Your rep probably has some sort of webpage at http://www.house.gov/ and that might have useful info. (At the very least, there will be an address or phone number to use to contact your rep and let him/her know that you're interested in attending a local constituents' meeting.) If this has already been answered and my info is a duplication, my apologies. My graphics card died shortly after my last post, and we didn't have things up and running again until about an hour ago, so I'm *way* behind in listmail Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: We Can make Fuel Cells Happen
Gautam Mukunda wrote: OK, that makes sense. That was always why I thought electric cars were a fairly good idea, I should have just carried that chain of logic over to fuel cells. So I was also confused by the zero-pollution economy rhetoric, which I guess is not true. IIRC, from reading the print version of the article a week or so ago, the author of the article supports using mainly nuclear energy to generate the hydrogen in the near term, then phasing in renewable energy sources as they become more practical. He sees hydrogen storage as a way to make renewable energy more practical in the long run. __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages .. http://www.brin-l.org Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
- Original Message - From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 2:37 PM Subject: RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War) --- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vous parlez l'histoire Francais comme une vache de droite. Et si vous comprenez (sans assistance), peut-etre vous connaissez plue que je pense. (Which probably has some errors, but I don't get to practice much these days, despite almost a decade of studying French and France.) Nick Mais tu parles l'histoire Francais comme un imbecile arrogant, pour je parle francais aussi. I don't get to practice much either, but I can still read and write the stuff. Despite, in my case, _also_ almost a decade studying French and France. At least it took for one of us. May I make a suggestion that will probably be ignored. I'm betting both Nick and Gautam are accurately reflecting what they were taught. I'm guessing they were taught different things. I'd be interested in either a detailed examination of the proposition that the Vichie government was representative of the attitude of the French or that the Dryfuss affair was the work of a minority. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The World's First Brain Prosthesis
In a message dated 3/16/2003 5:12:24 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That's ok. Even though I don't tend to reply to your puns, I always enjoy reading them. Like a good pun, stay with a natural reaction and don't push a reply. Puns developed in MUD chat last Wed relating to a future story idea were relayed to our good Dr. Brin. I recieved a one word reply, and for a change, all caps: GGGHH! I think some of them may have been useful. A real question, but still not on the very serious side: Will this be just one more thing that'll set off airport security alarms? LOL! An interesting question... The most serious part was the underline comment. Can something electronic be jammed by remote control. Or would an EMP drop people? William Taylor - Cranium 54 where are you? [All right, that was pushed.] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: May I make a suggestion that will probably be ignored. I'm betting both Nick and Gautam are accurately reflecting what they were taught. I'm guessing they were taught different things. I'd be interested in either a detailed examination of the proposition that the Vichie government was representative of the attitude of the French or that the Dryfuss affair was the work of a minority. Dan M. Dan - that sounds fine. I think the argument is simple: 1. Other countries in Western Europe managed to save a far higher proportion of their Jews 2. Other countries in Europe managed to run far more effective partisan Resistance campaigns 3. The _French_ Resistance was, from a military standpoint, neglible (see John Keegan's The Second World War, and any number of other books on the subject), probably the least significant of that of any occupied country. 4. The Vichy government had considerably more independence from German control than the governments of other occupied nations - in part because the Vichy portion of France was not, in fact, occupied until much later in the war. 5. Despite this fact, Jews in this part of France were shipped off to their deaths, not just without any protests on the part of the Vichy government, but with its active connivance. 6. After the war, instead of dealing with the realities of the extent of collaboration, France engaged in a purposeful glorification of the Resistance and a cover-up of the extent of Vichy complicity in the murder of France's Jews. This to the extent that Francois Mitterand, an official in the Vichy government (who later claimed to have worked with the Resistance, a claim that has recently been cast into some doubt) was elected President of France. The extent of the collaboration, however, was barely dealt with at all - see Coco Chanel, for example (a good reason to never buy your girlfriend Chanel No. 5, I guess). As far as I know, no one contests any of these facts. If the people of France did not, at least, look the other way at the murder of their Jews, then how come they didn't do something about it? We know that it _was possible_, because Denmark (and Bulgaria, interestingly enough) succeeded in saving them. It wasn't the extent of German repression - German rule was arguably less repressive in France than in any other Occupied Country. After the war, why didn't they make a real effort to expose what happened? Why did it have to wait 50 years? _Germany_ (admittedly, at gun point) has done a far better job of dealing with its record in the Second World War than France has. To be fair, Austria has done a far worse job. I would submit the reason was that the murder of Jews wasn't something that France was going to get all that upset about. This doesn't make it _alone_ in European history - it makes it one of the crowd. With the exception of Denmark (again), was there _any_ country in Europe that cared very much? The relevance of all of this to current events is not, as far as I can tell, terribly clear, except for the fact that opponents of the war seem to make the argument that we should not fight because France does not want us to. Proponents of liberating Iraq argue, fairly imo, that if that was our criterion, either Nazis or Communists would currently be ruling Europe. So that's not a terribly good argument. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Nation States
At 07:10 PM 3/16/2003 -0500, you wrote: * - Well, the tiny Pacific island state of Nauru (primary export - fossilized bird guano) collapsed two weeks ago, but it is too small and isolated for its collapse to matter to just about anybody but the Nauruans. So who all is still playing Nation States? I ignored my nation so long that it ceased to exist and I had to create another one. Also, what is that region that everyone defected to? Gary No one else answered. We started the Five Galaxies region, but even the founder gave up and his nation left the game. Kevin T. - VRWC Too drunk for Sunday ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The World's First Brain Prosthesis
At 09:08 PM 3/16/03 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/16/2003 5:12:24 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That's ok. Even though I don't tend to reply to your puns, I always enjoy reading them. Like a good pun, stay with a natural reaction and don't push a reply. I agree. I find that the best ones come in desperate situations, such as when it's third and long and time to pun . . . Puns developed in MUD chat last Wed relating to a future story idea were relayed to our good Dr. Brin. I recieved a one word reply, and for a change, all caps: GGGHH! Is there something about the mindset necessary to being an astronomer which also make one like outrageous puns? My students would really, really like to know (and find a cure, if possible). I think some of them may have been useful. A real question, but still not on the very serious side: Will this be just one more thing that'll set off airport security alarms? LOL! An interesting question... The most serious part was the underline comment. Can something electronic be jammed by remote control. Or would an EMP drop people? William Taylor - Cranium 54 where are you? [All right, that was pushed.] Pun Until Something Hilarious? Sturgeon Was A Cockeyed Optimist Maru -- Ronn! :~) Humor...it is a difficult concept. --Lt. Saavik (Kirstie Alley) to Admiral Kirk (William Shatner) in _Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn_ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Pennsylvania Nursing Home Tax
I forward this to myself at work, more time to look into it. I want to be honest about this: Rendell is a dem and I did not vote for him. I seriously believe that the rain the was predicted for election day, if it would have fell, he would not be governor. (Keeping the non-serious voters at home.) With that out of the way, he comes in and releases his 2004 budget (July 2003 - June 2004) THEN says Oh, I making a TWO PART budget. whatever the F*** that means. A women was on local TV, she said the governor HAS TO put out a budget three weeks after being sworn in (a lie) and so Rendell decides to make a two part budget without saying there are two parts until after he releases the first part. Now a majority of the nursing home are state run. Which means they have less wealthy residents. I'd believe that he's raising this fee because he assume Medicaid will pay the fee, it comes from the feds, not the patients. Sorry, I can't keep my thoughts together. I don't think Rendell is evil, but he has already done things outside the pale and it will only get worse. Kevin T. - VRWC Miller time. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Children of Dune
At 06:26 PM 3/16/2003 -0600, you wrote: Anyone watching this tonight? How about Riverworld next week? rob I'm taping. I was MUCH more excited over the Riverworld movie, which I never heard about until Friday. While I think the book of CoD is better, Riverworld should be an easy visual concept. Kevin T. - VRWC And then there were two ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Pennsylvania Nursing Home Tax
At 09:44 PM 3/16/03 -0500, Kevin Tarr wrote: Now a majority of the nursing home are state run. Which means they have less wealthy residents. I'd believe that he's raising this fee because he assume Medicaid will pay the fee, it comes from the feds, not the patients. In other states, though, the claim is that the problem is that the Feds have been making cuts in what Medicaid and Medicare will pay, throwing the burden back on either the patients (who if, as you say, are less wealthy, don't have it to pay) or the states. So where is the money _really_ going to come from? Time To Stock Up On K-Y Jelly And Nupercainal Maru -- Ronn! :) Your message here! (Call for rates.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Trolling vs. healthy debates
On Sun, Mar 16, 2003 at 07:49:02PM -0500, Han Tacoma wrote: How do we differentiate trolling from engaging in a healthy debate about any given issue? Sometimes I feel that the line separating these is an extremely fine one and hard to find. Are you trolling again, Han? :-) -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dan Minette ... May I make a suggestion that will probably be ignored. I'm betting both Nick and Gautam are accurately reflecting what they were taught. I'm guessing they were taught different things. I'd be interested in either a detailed examination of the proposition that the Vichie government was representative of the attitude of the French or that the Dryfuss affair was the work of a minority. Perhaps it isn't clear that this is about context, not facts. Clearly, Gautam knows the facts. My objection is the failure to contextualize the Vichy government as a puppet of the Nazis, with policies that did not exist before or after. Its behavior should never be interpreted as representative of France. The words that sparked this were, The Vichy government could, at the least, have pretended to care about preserving the lives of its Jewish citizens, instead of shipping them off with enthusiasm, in a comparison of national behavior during WWII. Substitute an appropriate description and the sentence becomes almost oxymoronic: The Nazi puppet government could, at the least, have pretended to care about preserving the lives of its Jewish citizens, instead of shipping them off with enthusiasm. Who would expect Nazi puppets *not* to collaborate? Perhaps what Gautam meant to say was that The people of France could have fought harder against the Nazis and their puppet French government, which collaborated by shipping Jews off with enthusiasm. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Trolling vs. healthy debates
How do we differentiate trolling from engaging in a healthy debate about any given issue? Sometimes I feel that the line separating these is an extremely fine one and hard to find. Any opinions out there? Cheers! -- Han Tacoma ~ Artificial Intelligence is better than none! ~ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Deadlier Than War
At 05:43 PM 3/16/2003 +, you wrote: John G said: JDG - Who wonders if France would oppose Spiderman's unilateralism in pursuit of criminals. I'm not overly familiar with the Spiderman mythos, but don't lots of Americans oppose Spiderman's unilateralism in pursuit of criminals? He is, after all, a vigilante. Rich Vigilante : a member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily (as when the processes of law appear inadequate); In the comics I think spiderman was held up as a criminal himself. So what if some two bit thug was trussed up for the police, he was stealing to feed his family! or some stuff. So to carry the analogy, the French people may think the USA is acting by itself, but the people who matter know the real story. Kevin T. - VRWC show me the money! (France) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
--- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps it isn't clear that this is about context, not facts. Clearly, Gautam knows the facts. My objection is the failure to contextualize the Vichy government as a puppet of the Nazis, with policies that did not exist before or after. Its behavior should never be interpreted as representative of France. The words that sparked this were, The Vichy government could, at the least, have pretended to care about preserving the lives of its Jewish citizens, instead of shipping them off with enthusiasm, in a comparison of national behavior during WWII. Substitute an appropriate description and the sentence becomes almost oxymoronic: The Nazi puppet government could, at the least, have pretended to care about preserving the lives of its Jewish citizens, instead of shipping them off with enthusiasm. Who would expect Nazi puppets *not* to collaborate? Perhaps what Gautam meant to say was that The people of France could have fought harder against the Nazis and their puppet French government, which collaborated by shipping Jews off with enthusiasm. Nick I would go so far as to say that the people of France could hardly have fought less hard. But the Vichy government, as I've pointed out several times, and as you've never even attempted to rebut, had a non-trivial degree of independence from Nazi control. They didn't just ship the Jews off - they seem to have done it without even batting an eye. _In Germany itself_ the Nazi government did not force _anyone_ to participate in the murder of Jews. Anyone who opted out was free to do so. Danny Goldhagen documented this extensively, but it's always been fairly clear. In Vichy France, which was not even under German occupation, there was (obviously) considerably more freedom to act. People did not do so. They did not even try. My comments were in fine context, and - despite all of your gratuitous insults - you have not even attempted to rebut their central context, which is that everyone in France, from Vichy to the average Jean Winebottle in Paris, had a choice to act differently, and they almost all failed. Italy was an Axis country - it did not participate in the same way. Bulgaria was an allied Axis power - it succeeded in saving almost all of its Jews. Denmark was a country under occupation, with an occupation government, and they managed it too. But France, where the German boot fell lightest - in France, things didn't go so well. The parable to the US you made was a poor one, but it is illuminating in one sense. If the US was under such occupation, what would happen? Well, I hope to God that if I wasn't dead, I'd be helping to smuggle Jews out of the country, and I'm confident that the rest of the population would do the same. If we failed to do so, and only America east of the Mississippi was occupied, but America west of the Mississippi was run by a government that, although under threat of enemy attack, was not, in fact, occupied, and America west of the Mississippi kept shipping its Jews off to death camps too - well then, I'd say that everyone save those who fought or died fighting was complicit in what happened. There was more than enough sin to go around. You seem reluctant to judge everyone but the American government (and conservatives in general, I guess - I'm not going to forget the fascist slander, implied though it might have been) but this is a situation that cries out for judgment. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Pennsylvania Nursing Home Tax
At 08:52 PM 3/16/2003 -0600, you wrote: At 09:44 PM 3/16/03 -0500, Kevin Tarr wrote: Now a majority of the nursing home are state run. Which means they have less wealthy residents. I'd believe that he's raising this fee because he assume Medicaid will pay the fee, it comes from the feds, not the patients. In other states, though, the claim is that the problem is that the Feds have been making cuts in what Medicaid and Medicare will pay, throwing the burden back on either the patients (who if, as you say, are less wealthy, don't have it to pay) or the states. So where is the money _really_ going to come from? Time To Stock Up On K-Y Jelly And Nupercainal Maru -- Ronn! :) Well..seriously I think it will only catch those who can pay or slipped into medicaid bills when they can get away with it. I doubt they will kick out residents who cannot pay the extra $1825 a year. Maybe it's better that the burden is passed back to the state. And I'm saying that from a BAD state. PA has the second highest retirement age population after Florida. But why should North Dakota pay higher federal taxes to support nursing home residents in Florida? (I understand the importance of spreading the costs, but I feel there is some point that the spending has to be reasonable). Let's switch gears for a second. A few years ago I heard a report that said Even if we build 1,000 bed nursing homes every day for the next ten years, we will not have enough capacity for the baby boomers. Now 1000*365*10 only equals 3.65 million so that is certainly a valid statement, that's less than 1% of the population, not knowing the current bed count. But what can/should be done? If we build now for predicted capacity, what will happen 20 years after the bubble passes? Will we have nursing homes abandoned like strip malls are now? (In fact heck we should convert strip malls to nursing homes). I have to go to bed. More later. Kevin T. -VRWC ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---Original Message--- From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately, now we are being hosted by leagin the US troops prepared ^^ to carry out this resolution in the lurch in the Gulf. Typo correction: That should be leaving, not leagin. OK, that helps, but it still doesn't quite make sense to me. If hosted were replaced by hosed it would make sense to me, but I'm not sure that's what you meant. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Pennsylvania Nursing Home Tax
At 10:36 PM 3/16/03 -0500, Kevin Tarr wrote: At 08:52 PM 3/16/2003 -0600, you wrote: At 09:44 PM 3/16/03 -0500, Kevin Tarr wrote: Now a majority of the nursing home are state run. Which means they have less wealthy residents. I'd believe that he's raising this fee because he assume Medicaid will pay the fee, it comes from the feds, not the patients. In other states, though, the claim is that the problem is that the Feds have been making cuts in what Medicaid and Medicare will pay, throwing the burden back on either the patients (who if, as you say, are less wealthy, don't have it to pay) or the states. So where is the money _really_ going to come from? Time To Stock Up On K-Y Jelly And Nupercainal Maru -- Ronn! :) Well..seriously I think it will only catch those who can pay or slipped into medicaid bills when they can get away with it. I doubt they will kick out residents who cannot pay the extra $1825 a year. Maybe it's better that the burden is passed back to the state. And I'm saying that from a BAD state. PA has the second highest retirement age population after Florida. But why should North Dakota pay higher federal taxes to support nursing home residents in Florida? (I understand the importance of spreading the costs, but I feel there is some point that the spending has to be reasonable). Let's switch gears for a second. A few years ago I heard a report that said Even if we build 1,000 bed nursing homes every day for the next ten years, we will not have enough capacity for the baby boomers. Now 1000*365*10 only equals 3.65 million so that is certainly a valid statement, that's less than 1% of the population, not knowing the current bed count. But what can/should be done? If we build now for predicted capacity, what will happen 20 years after the bubble passes? Will we have nursing homes abandoned like strip malls are now? (In fact heck we should convert strip malls to nursing homes). I don't have any solution. I was just pointing out that in general it seems like everyone is saying _I_ can't pay it and looking for someone else to pass the bill to. And, of course, that the taxpayer will get stuck with it in the end . . . Who, Me Cynical? Maru -- Ronn! :) Your message here! (Call for rates.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: France's influence
John D. Giorgis wrote: ---Original Message--- From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] As the leaders of the contain the US alliance? The only democracy that I know of that favors attacking Iraq without a new specific Security Council resolution authorizing it explicitly is the US. After we go in, probably without GB, this will be a significant force. Rightly or wrongly, many/most people will consider an unconstrained US as the biggest risk to themselves. I don't think that France is going to find too many people in the contain US alliance. According to recent reports, there are currently 47 nations in the coalition of the willing, who are providing material support. Unfortunately, I have not seen a listing of these nations anywhere (and I've looked), but it seems that the number may be inflated slightly. I have a list of less than 47 countries, posted on another list I'm on, but I can't vouch for its accuracy. It actually has 191 UN member nations listed in groups broken down by the amount of support they're lending. If you think it would help, I can post that. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
