RE: March for Women's Lives
Gary Denton is wondering: As a new member can I ask if he is always like this? Is this supposed to be satire? If I've said anything to offend you, let me apologize in advance, because I seldom apologize post facto. Welcome to the group! I hope this question was satire, and you're not going to immediately join the Dreary and Humorless Brigade that seems to think they should be in charge of everything except the Middle East. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: March for Women's Lives
Dim Jim, happy in his role as not-so-primary-caretaker of his progeny: Not incompetent at all, Mike. Just don't want to do the job 24/7. Quite happy in my role, thanks. Why wouldn't you want to raise your kids if you could? Why do you think your wife is any happier doing what you consider shitwork than you would be if your positions were reversed? Don't let your rampant personality defects make you a hater, Mike. Don't worry. I won't. When you're around as much smugly self-satisfied liberal stupidity as I've been around lately reading this list, it is a danger, I realize. Think of me more as a pitcher, not an underwear stitcher. Mike Lee Islamic Moderate ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: March for Women's Lives
Mike Lee wrote: Any woman who is whining about how busy she is who is a full time mother of a developmentally normal child (or children) is an incompetent and/or neurotic attention whore running a racket, hoping nobody will resent her for how easy her life is. *lol* You have never raised children, have you, Mike? It is one of the most tiring job in the world and it doesn't matter how competent you are, you still need to be 'on-the-job' 24/7. If taking care of children 24/7 doesn't tire you out, then you are not raising them properly. Or they are old enough to be out to school/in the playground for long hours at a stretch. Ritu ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Media Bias: NPR Smears Kerry
It should not be forgotten that the reporter herself attended World Press Institute which had (under some heat they are modifying the goals on the web) as its goals spreading God's Word and guidance to a secular world. Did NPR Religious Reporter Cook Up A Slanted Story? Atrios and his readers found that an odd story on NPR Friday, which basicly boiled down to good Catholics are moral people who oppose abortion and Kerry doesn't appeal to them, has some severe lapses in veracity and journalistic judgement. She only gave one an occupation, the token liberal union official. His given occupation enables listeners to attribute his opinions to liberal bias. The others only had names given. Atrios and his readers found out that all of the remaining three are extreme right wing Catholic Republican professional communicators. One has even written a book on the supposed liberal conspiracy to destroy Christianity. They were not the man-on-the-street interviews implied by her story and the story can only be seen as a deliberate partisan campaign to influence opinion against Kerry. #1 on google for liberal news ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Winning the War on Terror
Mike Lee wrote: The truth is that sufficient violence ends violence. That is true enough. But that only works when you can seal the outlines of the geographical area and flood the same with your troops. It also works if you are violent enough to convince the rest of them they need to knock ifoff or they're next. Remember, we don't want to occupy and control these countries. And the violence we've already visited on them has made a few of them blink (like Qaddafi Duck). This strategy has worked so very well in Iraq, hasn't it? I mean you just had to invade them once and people were calm. After a year, when the camraderie gave a few idiots the wrong idea, all you had to do was strafe Fallujah and everything quieted down... I prefer to give them a memory of a mushroom cloud over Medina that will make them remember that they shouldn't fuck with the adults. If you think that is the how they would react to it, then you need to take another look at the cultures of the places where Muslims live in significant numbers. I am looking at their culture. They are and always have presented for the right alpha dog. I am curious about how you got that impression. First I thought that the problem may lie in my 'pseudo-secularist' outlook and I tried the idea out on a few dedicated Hindutvavadis. They laughed harder than me There is another point you might wish to take under consideration here - nuke Medina and you are not the 'right alpha dog'. From the perspective of the muslims, you are the frothing-at-the-mouth-rabid dog. You know how people deal with rabid dogs So, let's get serious here: If Islam does another 9/11, the likelihood is genocide. Why do you equate OBL and his fanatics with a billion muslims? And just how are you going to kill a billion muslims? First, I do equate UBL and a billion Muslims. I know you do. That is the precise reason I asked *why* you do so. The majority of Muslims around the world think UBL is a jolly good fellow. We are at war against mainstream Islam, which is a fanatical, racist, violent, neanderthal sad excuse for a religion. You are not at war with Islam, not yet anyway. When that happens, you'd know. I am hoping it never happens. The worst of our backwoods Baptist bigots is far more moderate and enlightened with respect to human rights, attitude toward democracy and tolerance of unbelievers than are the majority of mainstream Muslims in your neighborhood. None of the muslims in my neighbourhood preach war on a religion or nuking of the religious shrines of other people. Compare that with your enlightened views and try to convince me again. :) They just don't tell you how much they despise you to your face. They are privately dedicated to the overthrow of democracy, the enslavement of your daughters, and to generally making everybody stop having fun. And you know that how? Because you live amongst them? Because you are their confidante? Because that is the standard theme in 'muslim' literature and poetry? Because you have psychic abilities? Nonetheless, I misspoke--I shouldn't have said genocide. The likelihood is vaporization of several of their capital cities. I'd think 5 million dead Muslims is a low estimate of what happens if they throw another punch like that. Let me get this straight. If a renegade organisation launches another attack against US civilians, you would nuke the capital cities of muslim countries and you think that would *help* matters? Let's imagine that some US president is actually silly enough to nuke Medina. What do you think would happen? Do you *really* imagine the rest of the muslims would cower in their homes, emerging only to lick America's boots? Yeah, pretty much. Especially if make it clear that we'll up the ante even more next time any one of 'em so much as shoots us a dirty look. *l* Are you cross posting from another dimension because the one I live in doesn't work that way. Nuke Medina and you have a billion muslims out for jihad. Look, let's get real here: The difference between us and them is, if they had our capabilities, they'd *right now* nuke us back into the Muslim Age. What do you mean by the 'Muslim Age'? Which decades or centuries fall in there? And why do you assume that they want to nuke the non-muslims into the Muslim age? I know OBL wants to re-establish the Caliphate but I am unaware of any reason to believe that all muslims want that. Going by Indian history, the muslim age [from 1100 AD to 1757 AD] was no better or worse than the Hindu Age which preceeded it. If we had Nadir Shah and Aurangzeb, we also had Akbar and Jehangir. And the Muslim Age certainly didn't have the racism inherent in the Company's rule [or later, the Raj] Raj, which was one of the reasons hindu and muslim kings and soldiers fought in 1857 to re-establish Bahadur Shah Zafar as the Emperor of India. We, on the other hand, have
Re: Winning the War on Terror
Ritu, who is not sure if Mike really believes what he says or if he is just good at parody I would filter him out but silence equals assent. But I don't have time to respond to each of his over the top statements. Reminds me of some frequent posters I tracked down who were very popular on right wing sites. Several turned out to be in high school - no wonder they seemed sophomoric. When people start a diatribe of hate and ignorance it is worth it for others to say that is not true. If someone does not speak up, how many assume that there is no opposition, that everyone thinks that? This latest screed on violence solving your problems reminds me of the reasons the Nixon White House gave when they carpet bombed the Cambodian border areas - We will wipe out the base camps and guerrillas threatening Vietnam and at the same time strengthen the Cambodian government by getting rid of those thugs. With thousands of Cambodians dead the government fairly quickly fell. The people avoided having anything to do with the West and the most extreme revolutionaries turned the entire country into a bloodbath as the world looked away. Vietnam fell too you may remember. Yeah, a few nukes on those terrorists will sure fix things. It will first multiply the people with a reason to look with fear, hate and loathing on the US and then science or a few bucks eventually provides the multiplied survivors with some mass terror weapon. Funny how civilization is much more vulnerable to those weapons than a few people wandering urban slums and the world outback. A good solution to Iraq is to declare victory (cheers, flag waving), turn Chalabi over to Jordan to serve his over 20 years for bank fraud (cheers, least popular leader in Iraq with 0.1% support), give Kurds their own country (cheers, they will gladly give us bases), give the Shiites their own country (no cheers but no more suicide bombers either, we killed too many and let Saddam kill too many for cheers), prosecute Haliburton and others for war profiteering and corruption, and then start figuring out what to do to those idiots who cost us $200 billion in Iraq and that is cheap compared to their other domestic boondoggles. Since the rich elected them why don't we declare a you have to pay for your stupid mistakes surcharge income tax to get the budget back in balance? Still don't know if that makes up for the What did you do in the war, daddy? Why I stayed home and spent some of my war tax cut, dear! of the last two years. Gary An occasional rant may actually be good for my blood pressure. Denton Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Winning the War on Terror
At 04:46 AM 5/3/2004, you wrote: Ritu, who is not sure if Mike really believes what he says or if he is just good at parody I would filter him out but silence equals assent. But I don't have time to respond to each of his over the top statements. Reminds me of some frequent posters I tracked down who were very popular on right wing sites. Several turned out to be in high school - no wonder they seemed sophomoric. When people start a diatribe of hate and ignorance it is worth it for others to say that is not true. If someone does not speak up, how many assume that there is no opposition, that everyone thinks that? This latest screed on violence solving your problems reminds me of the reasons the Nixon White House gave when they carpet bombed the Cambodian border areas - We will wipe out the base camps and guerrillas threatening Vietnam and at the same time strengthen the Cambodian government by getting rid of those thugs. With thousands of Cambodians dead the government fairly quickly fell. That's not true. It was seven years one month between the bombings and the end of the government. The people avoided having anything to do with the West and the most extreme revolutionaries turned the entire country into a bloodbath as the world looked away. Vietnam fell too you may remember. Yeah, a few nukes on those terrorists will sure fix things. It will first multiply the people with a reason to look with fear, hate and loathing on the US and then science or a few bucks eventually provides the multiplied survivors with some mass terror weapon. Funny how civilization is much more vulnerable to those weapons than a few people wandering urban slums and the world outback. A good solution to Iraq is to declare victory (cheers, flag waving), turn Chalabi over to Jordan to serve his over 20 years for bank fraud (cheers, least popular leader in Iraq with 0.1% support), give Kurds their own country (cheers, they will gladly give us bases), give the Shiites their own country (no cheers but no more suicide bombers either, we killed too many and let Saddam kill too many for cheers), prosecute Haliburton and others for war profiteering and corruption, That's not true. Reputable news organizations have shown Haliburton is not profiteering. and then start figuring out what to do to those idiots who cost us $200 billion in Iraq and that is cheap compared to their other domestic boondoggles. Since the rich elected them That's not true. why don't we declare a you have to pay for your stupid mistakes surcharge income tax to get the budget back in balance? Still don't know if that makes up for the What did you do in the war, daddy? Why I stayed home and spent some of my war tax cut, dear! of the last two years. Gary An occasional rant may actually be good for my blood pressure. Denton Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
What America Does with its Hegemony
http://oxblog.blogspot.com/2004_05_02_oxblog_archive.html#108358591971936946 Ritu, Andrew, I'm sure the Iraqis would be _much_ better off if nothing like this ever happened there. I am willing to make a bet that no report of this, or anything like it, will show up in the supposedly independent news sources that you two rely on. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
`Understanding Without Proof'
On his Web site at http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2004_archives/000734.html Brad DeLong, who is sometimes on this list, quoted the mathematician Benjamin Peirce as saying Gentlemen, that is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means. But we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth. about Euler's equation. Peirce had first proved the equation i pi e + 1 = 0 but that is as far as he got. The equation certainly is wonderful: it relates the five most important numbers in mathematics: * e, which tells you how quickly a quantity grows when its growth depends on how much has grown before; * i, the square root of minus one; * pi, the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter; * one, the amount of a single instance; * zero, which is not there. Peirce's comment got me thinking: although he was a famous mathematician, he was unable to express to others the meanings which underlie mathematics, although there is no doubt that he worked with them. Since he was able to prove Euler's equation to his own satisfaction, but not understand its meaning, his remark demonstrates what I call `Proof Without Understanding'. This got me to considering the opposite, `Understanding Without Proof'. For me, understanding is a step up. When I first heard of Euler's equation I could neither prove it nor understand it. But I now think there is a way to gain understanding. George Lakoff and his colleague, Rafael E. Núñez, say that mathematics consists of metaphor piled on metaphor. Moreover, the metaphors are so blended and transformed that people seldom see them. This idea comes from their book Where Mathematics Comes From: How the Embodied Mind Brings Mathematics into Being, Basic Books, 2000 ISBN 0-465-03770-4 The authors say that mathematics is based on `inference-preserving cross-domain mappings' that are ... a cognitive mechanism for allowing us to reason about one kind of thing as if it were another. Lakoff and Núñez write that infants can see the sizes of groups of up to four objects. Moreover, infants understand addition and subtraction prior to the development of language. The authors contend that arithmetic comes from an inference-preserving extension of this ability into larger numbers. Moreover, the Lakoff and Núñez go on to argue that there are actually four `grounding' metaphors that based on experiences many of us had as children: * adding and taking away objects from a collection (playing with pebbles); * construction of a larger whole from smaller objects (playing with blocks); * measuring the width or height of something (by stretching our hands to the ends of the object or standing up to see how high it is); * moving from one place to another (by crawling or walking). They say that these experiences provide us with four metaphors that work with arithmetic: four inference-preserving cross-domain mapping mechanisms that work consistently with each other and the world. What do you think? (A couple of days ago, I wrote a bit on this topic for my Web site http://www.rattlesnake.com/notions/math-metaphor.html (Parts of that page duplicate these comments; but on that Web page, I also give an explanation of why Euler's equation is true -- not a mathematical proof, but an explanation of most of the metaphors that go into making it meaningful. For example, I say ... imagine multiplying two with itself some fractional amount, such as two and a half times. This is hard, since ordinary multiplication can only operate as an integral whole. However, we do know that two times two is four, and that two times two times two is eight. So if we were able to multiple two with itself 2.5 times, the result would be somewhere between four and eight. ... (I don't go into that here.) -- Robert J. Chassell Rattlesnake Enterprises As I slowly update it, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I rewrite a What's New segment for http://www.rattlesnake.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Media Bias: Fox News Smear and Lie
http://mediamatters.org/items/200405030008 FOX's Chavez called Kerry a communist apologist -- and then lied about it Four days after her nationally syndicated column calling Senator John Kerry a communist apologist appeared in newspapers and on The Heritage Foundation's website Townhall.com, Linda Chavez, in a May 2 interview with FOX Friends host Mike Jerrick, claimed that she had not called Kerry a communist apologist: HOST: But isn't it too strong to call him a communist apologist? CHAVEZ: Well, I didn't call him that actually. HOST: But others have. CHAVEZ: Others have. In her April 27 column, Chavez referred to Kerry's role as that of an apologist for the communists we were fighting in Vietnam; later in the column, she wrote, The young Kerry seems to have fallen in the latter category, communist apologist. Linda Chavez is a FOX news analyst and syndicated columnist. In addition to Townhall.com, her columns have appeared in The New York Post, The Washington Times, The Baltimore Sun, Chicago Sun-Times, and other newspapers nationwide. - I can't imagine that I'm going to be attacked for telling the truth. Why would I be attacked for telling the truth? Paul O'Neill, 60 Minutes ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
From: Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:14:16 -0700 (PDT) I can watch DBZ (my generic name for all things Dragonball) 24/7. I just can't get enough of it. Ugh! Oh come now...what's the problem with DBZ? Speaking of anime (or at least something like anime) has anyone heard anything about a new Astroboy series? What did you want to know? It was recently airing on the Cartoon Network, though I don't know if it still is. I wasn't too keen on watching it, as I wasn't keen on the original either. But if you liked the original, this has better quality animation, and maybe deeper stories (though I only watched a couple episodes at the most). Better animation and deeper stories? Allright! But is the new series a redux of the old? Or is it a continuation of that Universe with all new adventures? -Travis I know Goku wouldn't kick Astroboy's ass!! Edmunds _ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Disturbing evidence of torture
From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Disturbing evidence of torture Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:31:01 -0700 (PDT) Anyone here ever seen the results of Zambardo's Stanford Prison Experiment? Do you have a link for that? I'm currently engaged in a debate on this subject which unexpectedly sprang up in another forum before it did here. -Travis _ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Forbidden pics from Iraq
From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Forbidden pics from Iraq Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 11:14:00 -0500 IMO, everyone benefits from a better knowledge of the reality of war as opposed to the detached view that is more commonly promoted. Indeed. Which is why you should tune in to CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) as opposed to CNN for the evening news. -Travis if you want, I could tape it off for ya Edmunds _ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
Oh come now...what's the problem with DBZ? Every time I see it, it seems like they're fighting the EXACT same fight scene as the day before, and the day before that... But is the new series a redux of the old? Or is it a continuation of that Universe with all new adventures? Couldn't say more. I never watched the original Astroboy in anything approaching interest. Seen a bit for the anime history appreciation factor, but had/have very little interest. Besides, my intro to Anime was with Starblazers/Space Battleship Yamato... Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: What America Does with its Hegemony
On Mon, 3 May 2004 06:11:04 -0700 (PDT), Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am willing to make a bet that no report of this, or anything like it, will show up in the supposedly independent news sources that you two rely on. Yes, I like the internet you can get the reports from all sides. That was an interesting report from a Green Zone. The soccer field is somewhere in neighborhood 76 on this map. You can blow this up (a bad choice of words) about 8 times and still get detail. http://www.humanitarianinfo.org/iraq/maps/280a%20A4%20Baghdad%20districts%20neighbourh%20300dpi.pdf I try to balance Green zone reports with reports from the Red Zones. For example, this report translates Arab news reports:of the Iraqi resistance against the American aggressors. Even less likely to appear on the news. US Marine reacts with hysterical joy when retreating from al-Fallujah. Iraqi police at one location were surprised when they took over a position from retreating Americans to find one US Marine crying and shouting hysterically for joy at the opportunity to leave the defiant city of al-Fallujah. The incident provoked laughter and derision from the policemen, according to the correspondent of Mafkarat al-Islam. Mafkarat al-Islam's correspondent in al-Fallujah writes that eyewitnesses among the residents of al-Fallujah now returning to the city over an-Nu'aymi crossing point report that the US occupation troops were allowing them to cross on condition that they give the Americans cigarettes and food. US troops take cigarettes, food from returning refugees from al-Fallujah. Returnees told the same story Friday at 2:00 and then again at 4:00 local time after the guard at the crossing had changed. With the Iraqi Resistance wrecking havoc with US supplies, the occupation soldiers have been experiencing shortages. http://www.albasrah.net/moqawama/english/0504/iraqiresistancereport_010504.htm But let's not go that far from mainstream news. This seems more important than opening a soccer field, but I can't think of anything that isn't, and it is from the conservative AP news wire: U.S. officials have for months publicly promoted the notion that foreign fighters and terrorists are playing a major role in the anti-American insurgency in Fallujah and the rest of Iraq. By blaming foreigners, U.S. authorities hope to quash the idea that Iraqis are rising up against military occupation and frame the conflict as part of the wider war on terror. However, foreigners play a tiny role in Iraq's insurgency, many military experts say. In Fallujah, U.S. military leaders say around 90 percent of the 1,000 or more fighters battling the Marines are Iraqis. To date, there have been no confirmed U.S. captures of foreign fighters in Fallujah although a handful of suspects have been arrested. Those who have spent time inside Fallujah have described a city consumed with the fight fathers and sons fighting for the local mujahedeen and wives and daughters cooking and caring for the wounded. http://www.boston.com/dailynews/124/world/BAGHDAD_Iraq_AP_U_S_officials_:.shtml Since the Fallujah battle started I could look up several independent journalists reports who went in and out. Bush is a uniter, he unified Sunni and Shiites to rush supplies to Fallujah to support the resistance or try to evacuate the women and children (too late for over 250 of them). The Arab reports of marines blockading the hospital and snipers eliminating the drivers of ambulances had lost this war even before the photos of the reintroduction of Saddam prison atrocities under the Americans and the Brits. Maybe we can stage a farewell soccer game as we declare victory and leave. http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Disturbing evidence of torture
http://www.prisonexp.org/ Gary http://elemming2.blogspot.com On Mon, 03 May 2004 13:44:01 -0230, Travis Edmunds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone here ever seen the results of Zambardo's Stanford Prison Experiment? Do you have a link for that? I'm currently engaged in a debate on this subject which unexpectedly sprang up in another forum before it did here. -Travis ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: What America Does with its Hegemony
--- Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I try to balance Green zone reports with reports from the Red Zones. Well, you have to ask yourself how you feel about treating the Arab press as reliable. Do you, for example, believe that the entire war in Iraq is a Jewish conspiracy launched by sinister neocons who are actually pawns of the state of Israel? That would, after all, be the standard story of the war as reported in the Arab press. I tend to trust other media just a tiny bit more... = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: City of Heroes
From: Jim Sharkey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm very tempted for the first time ever. I love comics, and it looks like a hoot. A bunch of my fellow PvP forumites are playing it and having a great time. But I'm afraid time constraints and a lack of high-speed Internet are going to make it unlikely. One of the reasons that I chose this game is that you want you can play in small time increments. The missions you are on will continue if you have to quit in the middle (like I did last night). You can solo (depending on the type of hero you build) or play with a group. Obviously, playing with a group the time commitments are much greater. One of the missions I went on with 2 others over the weekend took about 3 hours to complete. But most of the solo missions are fairly quick - 20 minutes or so. I can't speak for the high-speed Internet thing, though... - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Disturbing evidence of torture
Mike Lee: All our enemies, including the New York Times and Ted Koppel, are already all over this. Let's also remember that this is hazing, not torture. No wood chippers, no blood splashing all over the place. It's not morally equivalent to what Saddam did (as I've heard several media morons saying this morning). You have to admit, though, some of those pictures were pretty funny. Just wanted to preserve your definition of not torture. Your funnier than freaky Ann C. So we aren't like Saddam because our guys are wimps and not bloody enough? I must look up funny. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Catholic hierarchy steering into dangerous waters
From Atrios: Church vs. Pro-Choice Catholic Democrats No More MNB documents another bit of selective outrage by some members of the Catholic church. You see, Kerry may be disinvited from the annual Alfred E. Smith Memorial Foundation dinner, a charity fundraiser sponsored by the New York Archdiocese. They were unconcerned in previous years with attendance by pro-Choice Catholics Giuliani and Pataki. No word on whether those two will be attending or not this year. By inflicting themselves on the American political process, the Catholic bishops who are publicly talking about denying communion to Kerry and other pro-choice Catholic politicians, they are endangering their own moral authority. There are a lot of Catholics who, regardless of their position on abortion, will rightly be leery of anyone attempting to command their vote. Given the multitude of problems the bishops are facing growing out of their misstewardship of the clergy sex abuse problem, they really should put their own house in order before potentially risking their tax-exempt status in order to selectively enforce their anti-abortion mandate on just a handful of liberal Democratic politicians (with whom, ironically and sadly, they agree on most other issues, such as immigration, fair labor practices, the environment, and opposition to the death penalty). This is not the time for them to raise their profile in such an intrusive way. -- Tom Beck my LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/tomfodw/ New York (Football) Giants: http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Go_Big_Blue/ _The Universal Baseball Association, Inc., J. Henry Waugh, Prop._ Fan Club: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/j_henry_waugh/ I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never thought I'd see the last. - Dr. Jerry Pournelle --___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Is it hot in here?
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:48 PM Subject: Re: Is it hot in here? In a message dated 5/3/2004 7:27:56 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dan Minette wrote: 2) There is nothing underlying physics. No turtles?! No elephants either! G And no corks! No corks? No corks! What keeps the clowns from climbing out of the wine bottle? xponent Seat Of Pants Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: What America Does with its Hegemony
Gautam wrote: http://oxblog.blogspot.com/2004_05_02_oxblog_archive.html#108358591971936946 Ritu, Andrew, I'm sure the Iraqis would be _much_ better off if nothing like this ever happened there. I am willing to make a bet that no report of this, or anything like it, will show up in the supposedly independent news sources that you two rely on. from the blog: A new multipurpose recreation facility has opened in the Al Dura neighborhood, benefiting thousands of residents in Baghdad's Al Rashid district. Ahh, build Recreation Commons, fewer drones. 8^) -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Out of the closet and into the Log Cabin
http://www.rawstory.com/exclusives/womack/gay_republicans.htm About a million gay votes went to George W. Bush in 2000. Frankly, I dont think that its absurd of me to ask: What the hell is wrong with these people? Did they think that they were voting for someone more moderate on gay issues? Like Pat Buchanan? snip Thats quite a shock. How exactly does one weigh the pros and cons of becoming a gay Republican? Well, Im opposed to the institutionalized marginalization of myself, but Im in favor of drilling Alaska. Or, I dislike laws that make it illegal for me to have sex, but that upper-income tax break looks pretty tempting. And then theres my favorite: Sure, Id like to get married, but I think Id rather be able to buy a gun without a background check. LOL -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will run out of things they can do with UNIX. - Ken Olsen, President of DEC, 1984. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
- Original Message - From: Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:32 AM Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica Oh come now...what's the problem with DBZ? Every time I see it, it seems like they're fighting the EXACT same fight scene as the day before, and the day before that... That's the basic idea. Each battle takes about 6 episodes to complete!G Actually, I like DB and DBZ, but have only seen a couple of episodes of DBGT. Its sort of a Kung Fu Anime Soap Opera. But is the new series a redux of the old? Or is it a continuation of that Universe with all new adventures? Couldn't say more. I never watched the original Astroboy in anything approaching interest. Seen a bit for the anime history appreciation factor, but had/have very little interest. Besides, my intro to Anime was with Starblazers/Space Battleship Yamato... It's something of a halfhearted re-imagining in the same way the new Speed Racer was. xponent Introduced My Wife's Best Friend To Princess Mononoke And She Had To Stay To Watch The End Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Forbidden pics from Iraq
- Original Message - From: Travis Edmunds [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:18 AM Subject: Re: Forbidden pics from Iraq From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Forbidden pics from Iraq Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 11:14:00 -0500 IMO, everyone benefits from a better knowledge of the reality of war as opposed to the detached view that is more commonly promoted. Indeed. Which is why you should tune in to CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) as opposed to CNN for the evening news. -Travis if you want, I could tape it off for ya Edmunds Things have changed here over the years. I remember watching the news back near the end of the 60s and seeing a Buddhist Monk immolate himself, giving his life to protest the Vietnam war. xponent That Was Fair And Balanced Reporting Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: March for Women's Lives
Mike Lee wrote: what you consider shitwork It's been fun watching you utilize every corny, cliched Internet argument tactic ever invented in such a short time, Mike. I look forward to more entertainment in the future! Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Is it hot in here?
- Original Message - From: JDG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 9:33 AM Subject: Re: Is it hot in here? At 09:27 AM 4/28/2004 -0500 Dan Minette wrote: Science is not all cut and dry. There are a number of global climate models, that have uncertainties in them. Global warming hawks tend to favor models that discuss about 3-4C increases in global temperature due to human activity over the next 50-100 years, while global warming doves ten to favor models that are more in the 1C-1.5C range. The most likely results are somewhere in between. Publishing both papers is a normal part of good science. I thought that good science required precision to multiple decimal points??? ;-) Sigh, did you look at my definition of science and not respond or just not look at the definition? If you want to discuss what is and what is not science and why economics is not a science, then I'd be more than happy to. It is true that ecology is not as good a science as physics. Physics is the paradigm science; it is the first true science and it shows by example what science is. There are two reasons for this. 1) The problems in physics tend to be simpler. 2) There is nothing underlying physics. This points to how long term atmospheric studies fall under science. The science underlying atmospheric studies is well known chemistry and physics. For the short term, one can treat it as a complex thermo problem. It has always been complex enough so that one cannot simply turn the crank, even at a large level. At the level of where hit and miss thunderstorms will hit, I'm pretty sure its at the level where QM actually is importantespecially hit or miss thunderstorms several days from now. But, on a large scale quantum fluctuations average out, and theoretical predictions are very makeable, in principal. On moderate time scales, the ability to model hurricanes has increased tremendously. In particular, it is amazing how models come together after NOAA missions drop a spread of sampling probes to feed data into the models. So, the study of the atmosphere is well grounded in more basic sciences, and has shown tremendous strides in its predictive abilities. Long term models have more scatter, but the scientific method is still usable. Contrast that with economics. Its been around close to the same amount of time as physics, and top people still argue about what actually happened, not what will happen. It is based, on the microeconomic scale, on the free will of people. Politics actually affects the results, not just what gets published. If you want to argue with this, I think it would be useful for you to point out where you think I am wrong in the guidelines for what is and what is not science that I posted. If you don't really differ, than I'd be happy to accept the burden of proof to show why economics is not a science by those guidelines. If you just want to fire off the occasional one line zinger, that's OK, I guess. I just don't accept proof by one line zinger. :-) Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Is it hot in here?
Dan Minette wrote: 2) There is nothing underlying physics. No turtles?! -- Nick Arnett Director, Business Intelligence Services LiveWorld Inc. Phone/fax: (408) 551-0427 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Brin - On Writing Hard SF
William Browning Spencer says in an interview: I've often thought the hardest writer to be, unless you had a deep scientific background, would be a hard science fiction writer, because your fans would always be writing in to tell you what you did wrong. (Laughs) I'm sorry, you can not in fact do that, and this is not what's called centrifugal force. And you would be writing books thinking, Oh, they're really going to nail me on this one! Instead of thinking of your fans as this warm bunch of fuzzy people out there, you're thinking of them poised to rip you apart if you make some incredible scientific faux paux. Any writers here agree? BEG xponent Word Processors Of the Living Dead Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: March for Women's Lives
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 11:20 PM 4/29/04, Julia Thompson wrote: Robert Seeberger wrote: - Original Message - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 10:42 PM Subject: Re: March for Women's Lives and how do you know he's not just playing with your head, anyway? Exactly what trolls do. With a troll, you have a number of options. One of those is choosing to be amused. I'm trying to go with that one as much as possible this week. :) (Ignoring is another, getting one's panties in a wad is yet another.) And, if trolls really are Neanderthals, and Neanderthals really do live fast, die young, and leave good-looking cave paintings, then at least you can look forward to the day you will finally be rid of the troll . . . That receptionist comment is rankling a bit, though, due to the ludicrous incompetency I've heard about in a number of receptionists. (And had to deal with personally in a rather stressful situation.) Though to be fair to the other side, anyone in academia knows who really runs the department and who to go to when one has any problems or needs anything done. And any of the receptionists I'm thinking about would have been eaten alive by undergrads in 3 minutes flat. :P If you can't handle a relatively simple phone system when you're being sent out by a temp agency to be a receptionist, there's very little hope for you in the short run. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Is it hot in here?
In a message dated 5/3/2004 7:27:56 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dan Minette wrote: 2) There is nothing underlying physics. No turtles?! No elephants either! G And no corks! Vilyehm ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin - On Writing Hard SF
In a message dated 5/3/2004 7:09:34 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ! Instead of thinking of your fans as this warm bunch of fuzzy people out there, you're thinking of them poised to rip you apart if you make some incredible scientific faux paux. That's UF-faux paux in SF terms. A UF-faux paux occurs when you have the flying saucer over Rio broadcasting Take me to your leader in Spanish. OK Dr Brin: Now in Sundiver you have an intel agent scurring about looking for a camera. In 2004 this becomes a very funny line. It's a faux past, and no one has ever shown the ability to avoid having at least a few of them show up as time goes by. William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Is it hot in here?
- Original Message - From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:21 PM Subject: Re: Is it hot in here? Dan Minette wrote: 2) There is nothing underlying physics. No turtles?! No elephants either! G xponent Stackers Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: What America Does with its Hegemony
Gary Denton wrote: Well, I learned about the reliability of the American press last year when I went to independent sources and found out that Iraq had shut down its nuclear weapons program immediately after the first Gulf War. Where did this information come from? That definitely sounds like one of those extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence sorta situations... __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages .. http://www.brin-l.org Science Fiction-themed online store . http://www.sloan3d.com/store Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Disturbing evidence of torture
Here is the url - http://www.sundayherald.com/41693 Don't just blame untrained unsupervised Americans either: The British pictures show a hooded Iraqi aged between 18-20 on the floor of a military truck being brutalised. According to two squaddies who took part in the torture, but later blew the whistle, the Iraqi's ordeal lasted eight hours and he was left with a broken jaw and missing teeth. He was bleeding and vomited when his captors threw him out of a speeding truck. No-one knows if he lived or died. One of the British soldiers said: Basically this guy was dying as he couldn't take any more. An officer came down. It was 'Get rid of him I haven't seen him'. The other whistle-blower said he had witnessed a prisoner being beaten senseless by troops. You could hear your mate's boots hitting this lad's spine ... One of the lads broke his wrist off a prisoner's head. Another nearly broke his foot kicking him. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Winning the War on Terror
Fallujah blew up because of American miscalculation. It still exists because the Army doesn't want high American casualty urban street fighting with insufficient troops and the revolt spreading across the country. Just the fact they were fighting and how they were fighting cost America Iraq support and unified the opposing factions. Flattening it as you suggest would have cost us more support and universal condemnation. Or is that what you want? Since you keep proposing solutions that would increase hatred for America maybe you are on their side. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: What America Does with its Hegemony
On Mon, 3 May 2004 17:47:08 -0700 (PDT), Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, they did teach us that Marines don't quiver and hide. They particularly when they're winning battles. They lost. You might want to ask, what does it say that your response to that story was That sounds about right. Huh? That isn't there. Are you trying to become a neocon? Where did you go to learn that they did? Not sure what you mean - Canadian press, other countries and some independent press had the reports by Iraqi scientists and engineers you didn't get in the American press. Much of the rest of what you learned from the foreign press happens to be not true, so hey... So hey, you hiding the the WMDs under your bed for Saddam? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Disturbing evidence of torture
I should add that one of the mercenaries conducting the interrogations apparently raped one of the male prisoners. Is that more like Saddam for you Mike? Also, because he was not a soldier but a contractor he isn't facing charges. We don't want to put him in an Iraqi prison, no crime has been committed in the US, and the US doesn't recognize the World Court. The worst pictures of course haven't made it to the US public The Pictures That Lost The War Neil Mackay Sunday, May 2, 2004 Sunday Herald (Scotland) The pictures of US soldiers torturing their captives have the added horror of sexual abuse. In five of the 14 images that the Sunday Herald has seen, a female soldier - identified as Lynndie England, a 21-year-old from a West Virginia trailer park - is playing up to the camera while her captives are tortured. In one picture, she's smiling and giving the thumbs-up. Her hand rests on the buttocks of a naked and hooded Iraqi who has been forced to sit on the shoulders of another Iraqi prisoner. In another, she is sprawled laughing over a pyramid of naked Iraqis. A male colleague stands behind her grinning. Later, she's got a cigarette clenched between grinning lips and is pointing at the genitals of a line of naked, hooded Iraqis. A third snap shows her embracing a colleague as a naked Iraqi lies before them. In other pictures, two naked Iraqis are forced to simulate oral sex and a group of naked Iraqi men are made to clamber on to each other's backs. One dreadful picture features nothing but the bloated face of an Iraqi who has been beaten to death. His body is wrapped in plastic. Other pictures, which the world has not seen, but which are in the hands of the US military, include shots of a dog attacking a prisoner. An accused soldier says dogs are used for intimidation factors. There are also pictures of an apparent male rape. An Iraqi PoW claims that a civilian translator, hired to work in the prison, raped a male juvenile prisoner. He said: They covered all the doors with sheets. I heard the screaming ... and the female soldier was taking pictures. Mike Lee: It's not morally equivalent to what Saddam did (as I've heard several media morons saying this morning). You have to admit, though, some of those pictures were pretty funny. Must be fun and games at your house Mike. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: What America Does with its Hegemony
From: Gautam Mukunda [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://oxblog.blogspot.com/2004_05_02_oxblog_archive.html#1083 58591971936946 Ritu, Andrew, I'm sure the Iraqis would be _much_ better off if nothing like this ever happened there. I am willing to make a bet that no report of this, or anything like it, will show up in the supposedly independent news sources that you two rely on. I don't recall it making the front pages Gautam, no. That's been reserved for other, more exciting stories. But you forget, I am in Australia. Our SAS was blowing up Iraqi's before war was even declared, so fear not, I am well supplied with biased media on both sides. It is a shame that more of the good stuff does not get told, but that's the way our 'Free Press' works. They want blood and excitement and gore. And that's our fault as much as anyones. Andrew ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: What America Does with its Hegemony
On Mon, 3 May 2004 10:12:18 -0700 (PDT), Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, you have to ask yourself how you feel about treating the Arab press as reliable. Do you, for example, believe that the entire war in Iraq is a Jewish conspiracy launched by sinister neocons who are actually pawns of the state of Israel? That would, after all, be the standard story of the war as reported in the Arab press. I tend to trust other media just a tiny bit more... Well, I learned about the reliability of the American press last year when I went to independent sources and found out that Iraq had shut down its nuclear weapons program immediately after the first Gulf War. This was at the same time our VP and President were saying that we could not wait for weapons inspectors because the only warning we would get would be a mushroom cloud. Our press never challenged them. The closest to reliable reporting in mainstream American papers preceeding the war was a few deep buried articles in the Washington Post and some Kight-Ridder stories. I have constantly found out stuff days to years before the American media ever picks it up. When Powell went to the UN within days there was an analysis of his purported claims in the UK. Six months after the war was when the first American newspaper went back and looked at those claims. When Powell's assistant in charge of Iraq weapons quit and went public that there was nothing to Powell's claims this was months old to me. I suppose I should respond to your specifics - Sure the Arab press can be unreliable, so is the American. Live with it and learn the bias. They don't teach that at Harvard? The neocons - no quotes - were very open that they were going to have this war, for two of the latest people who say that look to General Zinni it was an open secret' and former Treasury Secretary O'Neal who had to attend all the NSC meetings - the very first meeting was how to take out Saddam, by force if necessary, military plans were ordered updated. Do you disagree with that? For the earliest neocon plans for the region and the world look up Project for a New American Century, they are quite open about it, but realize the principals were planning it much earlier starting with Bush ! where they formed the uberhawk team B that overhyped threats to the US. They had other informal names in the White House at that time. More neocons are Catholic and Christian than Jewish. While the Likud party approved of the US attacking Iraq and a couple of the neocons have links to the party the neocons are not pawns of Israel. I actually think the name neocon might be a misnomer. Neo-imperialist or even, as a couple political scientists have pointed, out neo-confederate might be better. #1 on google for liberal news ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Winning the War on Terror
Ritu 'rote: This strategy has worked so very well in Iraq, hasn't it? I mean you just had to invade them once and people were calm. After a year, when the camraderie gave a few idiots the wrong idea, all you had to do was strafe Fallujah and everything quieted down... Time will tell. I don't think the backlash would have been that bad had we really strafed Fallujah. But it looks like we've done a decent and perhaps too restrained job of pacifying the place so far. I am looking at their culture. They are and always have presented for the right alpha dog. I am curious about how you got that impression. First I thought that the problem may lie in my 'pseudo-secularist' outlook and I tried the idea out on a few dedicated Hindutvavadis. They laughed harder than me http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FD27Ak01.html alpha dog'. From the perspective of the muslims, you are the frothing-at-the-mouth-rabid dog. You know how people deal with rabid dogs I know how people do it, but Muslims just seem to blow themselves up a lot and dance on top of burning cars. First, I do equate UBL and a billion Muslims. I know you do. That is the precise reason I asked *why* you do so. Because they dream the same dream. Are you seriously saying that you don't think mainstream Muslims wish to subject the rest of us to sharia and dhimmitude? You are not at war with Islam, not yet anyway. When that happens, you'd know. I am hoping it never happens. They've declared war against us over and over, for decades, week after week, mosque after mosque, benighted backwards oil-dripping hellhole after hellhole. It's time we took them at their word. The worst of our backwoods Baptist bigots is far more moderate and enlightened with respect to human rights, attitude toward democracy and tolerance of unbelievers than are the majority of mainstream Muslims in your neighborhood. None of the muslims in my neighbourhood preach war on a religion or nuking of the religious shrines of other people. Compare that with your enlightened views and try to convince me again. :) It's my view we should nuke Medina the next time a major event happens in one of our major cities. The backwoods Baptists I'm referring to mostly think I'm going too far with that, which is my point in the first place. In any case, none of our Billy Bobs, even now, are marching around in the streets waving AK-47's and screaming, Death to Arafat! or Nuke Najaf! I kind of wish they were. It would give the sand Nazis pause. Also, you're hopelessly naïve if you believe none of the Muslims in your neighborhood preach war on a religion or nuking other people. You haven't talked to them about Jews lately, have you? Or if you do, and they don't admit their genocidal lust, then they must still consider you a useful idiot. Muslims are more bigoted against Jews, including mainstream Muslims, than backwoods Baptists are bigoted against blacks. True or false? And you know that how? Because you live amongst them? Because you are their confidante? Because that is the standard theme in 'muslim' literature and poetry? Because you have psychic abilities? Because I can read. Mainstream Islam intends to infiltrate, dominate and eventually replace western democratic systems with sharia. They intend to forcibly convert or subjugate every human being in the world to their barbaric ideology. I'm against that, silly me. Let me get this straight. If a renegade organisation launches another attack against US civilians, you would nuke the capital cities of muslim countries and you think that would *help* matters? Yes. For us. Don't much care about them if they pull another stunt like 9/11. Till then, I'm willing to give Bush a chance to save them all. Despite the inane maunderings of American mainstream liberals, all these guys do conspire together and work together, including Saddam and bin Laden, and I really don't give a damn if the CIA can tape record them or not. It's like cracking down on one Mafia family--the rest get the messages. Let's imagine that some US president is actually silly enough to nuke Medina. What do you think would happen? Do you *really* imagine the rest of the muslims would cower in their homes, emerging only to lick America's boots? Pretty much, yeah. After a little while. At first, they'd riot in the streets like they always do. After a daisy cutter or two was dropped on those demonstrations to let them know exactly how much the First Admendment doesn't apply to them, yes, the rest would cower lick. Are you cross posting from another dimension because the one I live in doesn't work that way. Nuke Medina and you have a billion muslims out for jihad. Who cares? What are they gonna do about it? The difference between us and them is, if they had our capabilities, they'd *right now* nuke us back into the Muslim Age. What do you mean by the 'Muslim
RE: Disturbing evidence of torture
Dan sure has lots of questions: 1) How strong was the emphasis on getting information vs. keeping professional and humane standards? 2) What training did the guards have? 3) What was the role of the private contractor? 4) How much supervision did the guards have? 5) How easy was it to report abuses? 6) How were the guards regularly reminded of the absolute need to continue humane treatment? What happened has nothing to do with lack of training. It has to do with lack of adult supervision. What those guards did was no different than what they were doing a few years go in high school: giving swirlies to the nerds. They did it then because teacher couldn't be watching them every second, and they did this crap now because they thought it was funny and that they would still get away with it. Let's remember how old (young) all those involved are. I'm not excusing them. Every one of the soldiers involved should do hard jail time, and the trials should be expedited. One dumbass prank too many, and look what they've cost America in terms of moral high ground, and for no reason. All our enemies, including the New York Times and Ted Koppel, are already all over this. Let's also remember that this is hazing, not torture. No wood chippers, no blood splashing all over the place. It's not morally equivalent to what Saddam did (as I've heard several media morons saying this morning). You have to admit, though, some of those pictures were pretty funny. Mike Lee Islamic Moderate ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: What America Does with its Hegemony
-- From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I try to balance Green zone reports with reports from the Red Zones. Well, you have to ask yourself how you feel about treating the Arab press as reliable. Do you, for example, believe that the entire war in Iraq is a Jewish conspiracy launched by sinister neocons who are actually pawns of the state of Israel? That would, after all, be the standard story of the war as reported in the Arab press. I tend to trust other media just a tiny bit more... The Same press that was all over the Texas-Cyanide Bomber story? The One where they captured conspirators with ~~actual~~ WMD, capable of killing tens of thousands. Oh, wait. They _didn't_ report on the Texas-Cyanide Bomber story. - The world Orwell described does not require complete control of the press, just a very large market share. -Kuro5hin Poster ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: What America Does with its Hegemony
From: Gautam Mukunda [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I try to balance Green zone reports with reports from the Red Zones. Well, you have to ask yourself how you feel about treating the Arab press as reliable. Do you, for example, believe that the entire war in Iraq is a Jewish conspiracy launched by sinister neocons who are actually pawns of the state of Israel? That would, after all, be the standard story of the war as reported in the Arab press. I tend to trust other media just a tiny bit more... I think most of us wordly-wise enough to take most of our media with a good dash of salt. Anyway, we all tend to believe what we like and not believe what we don't, in regard to opinions/rumours/slants expressed in the press. My real concern is when facts are wrong, or, as you point out, things are just never reported. Do you think much of the media, be it Arab, American, Indian etc, actually lies about facts? Is there some source of great truth we can check them against, and where is it? Andrew ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: What America Does with its Hegemony
The Fool wrote: The world Orwell described does not require complete control of the press, just a very large market share. -Kuro5hin Poster Does anybody remember Neil Postman's excellent Amusing Ourselves to Death from the mid-80's (Amazon: http://tinyurl.com/2uvuo)? Using 1984 and Brave New World, he made pretty much the point above. No central agency of government control is needed to enslave the minds of the masses: just give 'em American Idol, Fear Factor and Fox News (are the last even two different shows?), and they'll gladly enslave themselves, and pay for the privilege. Now, excuse, me, the NBC Blockbuster Television Event 10.5 is on. Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] 408-551-0427 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: March for Women's Lives
Ritu, laughing out loud: *lol* You have never raised children, have you, Mike? Well, I think I have; my poor child may have a different opinion. But that's neither here nor there, since my comments were not based on my own experience but on my observation of all the lazy, whining, incompetent, neurotic housewives I've observed over the years. Really, you could train a chimp to do a better job than most stay-at-home-moms. It is one of the most tiring job in the world No, it's not. It's really not. If taking care of children 24/7 doesn't tire you out, then you are not raising them properly. Exhaustion is the last refuge of the incompetent mother. Really, get a nanny if you're so damn tired, because you're not very good at being a mom, and obviously you need professional help. Mike Lee Feminist Moderate ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
