Re: Political Futurists and Radical and Utopian SF writers
At 11:20 AM Saturday 5/7/2005, Gary Denton wrote: Brin is listed - Heinlein isn't. http://www.changesurfer.com/Acad/Authors.html They should take another look at We the Living, Time Enough for Love, Moon is a Harsh Misstress, etc. This was a guess before I went to the above link, but perusing the blurbs about the authors there seems to support it: perhaps the compiler(s) left Heinlein off because they disagree with his politics. In support of that, note how pretty much each of the authors listed is described as socialist, or by other code words which a radical Rightie of the Cold War era would read as a synonym for Commie ;) (Though that person would probably see nothing wrong with including Heinlein with the other Godless leftists, notwithstanding his graduation from Annapolis and the end of his relationship with one of the other name SF writers (it's on the tip of my tongue, or should be) over WWII ) Edward Bellamy author of the ***socialist*** Looking Backward Jack London, ***socialist*** and author The Iron Heel with an afterward from ***Leon Trotsky*** William Morris, a Luddite ***socialist*** of the 19th century, and his pastoral ***socialist*** utopian novel News from Nowhere H.G.Wells, ***socialist*** and author of many utopian and dystopian novels Olaf Stapledon, a ***socialist*** and an early and expansive visionary of the future evolution of humanity, of which ***socialist world government*** was just a first step Isaac Asimov, a ***Marxist*** in his youth, and democratic humanist in his maturity, author of more than 300 books including the Marxism-inspired Foundation series The Futurians - a Marxist SF fan organization that included several youths who later became prominent SF writers, such as Asimov and Fred Pohl H.P. Lovecraft, a ***socialist*** and author of the many Cthulu horror novels and short stories George Orwell, a ***socialist*** and author of the widely read critiques of Communism and Fascism, Animal Farm and 1984 Mack Reynolds, a science fiction author and democratic ***socialist***, ***who campaigned for the Socialist Labor Party*** Stanislaw Lem, a Polish science fiction writer whose philosophical novels sometimes reflected a rejection of the Cold War and authoritarian government Iain Banks, ***socialist*** and author of the ***post-property*** Culture series John Barnes, author of the classic ***ecological*** SF Mother of Storms Terry Bisson, ***radical***, author of Fire on the Mountain and many of other things David Brin, self-styled cheerful ***libertarian*** and author of the provocative novels Earth and the Uplift series. His book The Transparent Society argues that absolute privacy may be undesirable. Brin co-founded the Reading for the Future organization. [Remember that to our hypothetical right-winger, the main thing he thinks of when he hears about the Libertarians is that they stand for the legalization without any limits whatsoever of all illegal drugs. (Don't yell at me. Accurate or not, that is the impression many have of the LP, and you can guess how well that goes over with the Religious Right. If the LP wants to appeal to them, it needs to do a complete 180 on that issue or at least quit talking about it at all. (This unsolicited free political advice worth every cent.))] John Brunner, a British ***socialist*** SF writer, author of the classic SF social commentaries, the ***overpopulation***-themed Stand on Zanzibar, Shockwave Rider (the novel that proposed the idea of software worm as a terrorist weapon), and ***ecological*** The Sheep Look Up. [ObPersonalAnecdote: One day back in the 80s, my adviser and I were talking in his office and he brought up novel uses of Sinclair monofilament line, so I referred him to the appropriate scene in Stand on Zanzibar . . . ] Emma Bull Steven Brust -- Freedom Necessity (1997) Bull is a ***left-liberal*** and Brust is a ***Trotskyist*** fantasy writer. FN is set in the 19th Century of the Chartists and class turmoil. It's been described as the first Marxist steampunk or a fantasy for Young Hegelians.' (Abstract by China Mieville) Octavia Butler -- Survivor (1978) ***Black*** American writer, now discovered by the mainstream after years of acclaim in the SF field. Kindred is her most overtly political novel, the Patternmaster series the most popular. Survivor brilliantly blends genre SF with issues of colonialism and racism. (Abstract by China Mieville) [I hesitated long before including this entry, but, to radical right-wingers of the Cold War era, black pretty much means liberal Democrat which a member of the specified group would consider pretty much equivalent to Communist . . . ] Eugene Byrne and Kim Newman, authors of Back in the ***USSA***, an alternative history in which American became a ***communist*** country, and ***60s counter culture types*** are fighting for perestroika [I marked USSA because anything like that or
Re: Political Futurists and Radical and Utopian SF writers
At 01:41 PM Saturday 5/7/2005, Julia Thompson wrote: Robert Seeberger wrote: Julia Thompson wrote: Robert Seeberger wrote: I generally think of him as JARCHAL, which pretty much defines the majority of very vocal Libertarians that I have known. JARCHAL? Can you expand? I thought it obviousG It might be to someone who's been averaging significantly more than 5 hours' sleep a night for the past 6 nights No, it wasn't. xponent Just Another Republican Calling Himself A Libertarian Maru rob Thanks! That Makes Two Of Us Maru -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fwd: Whale-Dolphin Hybrid Has Baby 'Wholphin'
At 07:24 PM Saturday 5/7/2005, Steve Sloan wrote: HONOLULU (AP) _ The only whale-dolphin mix in captivity has given birth to a playful female calf, officials at Sea Life Park Hawaii said Thursday. The calf was born on Dec. 23 to Kekaimalu, a mix of a false killer whale and an Atlantic bottlenose dolphin. Park officials said they waited to announce the birth until now because of recent changes in ownership and operations at the park. http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/ap_050415_wolphin.html If the gender/species correlation of the parents had been reversed, would the offspring been a dale? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Other Christianity (was Re: Babble theory, and comments)
On 14 Apr 2005, at 3:08 am, Dan Minette wrote: Well, some people do that, but I always lower my respect a notch for folks who will not accept that they are sometimes wrongunless they are Feynman and the subject is physics. Lord knows I argue tooth and nail. But, I work at precision in my arguementsparticularly written arguements. I usually leave outs for reasonable people to disagree. It allows for a graceful retreat when necessary. Saying I don't see the justification for something allows someone to give the justification and then for me to pleasantly acknowledge it. I expect to see your disclaimers in place in future then. Next time you mention God just put (an idea for which there is no evidence or logical argument but which I believe anyway just because I want to and admit I might be wrong about) every after occurrence. Same goes for your other nonsense. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Invest in a company any idiot can run because sooner or later any idiot is going to run it. - Warren Buffet ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Paedophiles turning Christian
On 7 May 2005, at 11:45 pm, Warren Ockrassa wrote: On May 7, 2005, at 2:48 AM, William T Goodall wrote: http://tinyurl.com/7lsm2 Children are at growing risk from paedophiles who convert to Christianity in prison and join a church on their release, a government-backed charity said yesterday. That's nothing. The overwhelming majority of child molesters are avowed heterosexuals. So if you're going to start *really* protecting children, it's obvious we need -- first and foremost -- to make sure *every* teacher is gay, not just the girls' gym coaches. With only 21% of Britons in general regularly attending religious services but 75% of convicted child abusers doing so the heightened risk to children exposed to religious activities is obvious. Clearly nobody under the age of eighteen should be associated with religion. Think of the children! -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. - Bjarne Stroustrup ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
God? Sure, whatever
http://tinyurl.com/7feyb A new book says that 80 percent of American teens believe in God -- but their God is a buddy who props up their self-esteem, and many don't even know who Jesus was. - - - - - - - - - - - - By Carlene Bauer April 29, 2005 | Between the real-life stories of lonely kids shooting their way out of despair, and culture makers who can't stop fetishizing teen disaffection, it's hard to imagine adolescence as anything other than a time of surly skepticism. But according to the National Study of Youth and Religion, a random survey of nearly 3,300 American teens aged 13 to 17 from all across the country and from varying socioeconomic backgrounds, most kids aren't quarreling with the cosmos -- 80 percent of them believe in God, and only 3 percent of them don't. More than six in 10 kids say they'd attend church several times a month if it were entirely up to them. They like their congregations -- but they don't want to be confused with Ned Flanders. The survey was conducted over the phone and in person in 2002 and 2003 by a team of sociologists headed by Christian Smith, a professor at the University of North Carolina. Their findings can be found in the book Soul Searching: The Religious and Spiritual Lives of Teenagers, which Smith coauthored with Melinda Lundquist Denton. Smith and his colleagues discovered that while three-quarters of their subjects professed to be Christians, they're dazed and confused when it comes to articulating their beliefs. We go to church, and ... God is coming back again and he'll take us to heaven. And what was the other one? was a typical attempt. One 14-year-old girl, through barely contained yawns, pointed to her Internet and cable connections as proof of God's goodness. And she wasn't the only one who saw God as a big cable guy in the sky. Most kids' faith, says Smith, takes the form of what he calls moralistic therapeutic deism -- God is an undemanding, all-fulfilling entity existing only to help us feel better about ourselves. Salon talked to Smith, who has also written extensively about evangelical Christianity, about the inner lives of teenagers and the potential costs of their slacker spirituality. [You found that when teens do experiment with religion, they're not flirting with Buddhist or Wiccan practices -- in fact, less than one- third of 1 percent of the kids you spoke to identified themselves as either Buddhist or Wiccan. They're trying on Christianity instead. Did that surprise you?] Yes, very much. There's a lot in the media and books about spiritual seeking and people identifying themselves as spiritual but not religious, so we expected to see that more. But if you stand back and think about it, mathematically Christianity is the dominant religion, and if you're any minority religion you're going to be surrounded by Christianity. [Do you think, mathematics aside, teens are looking into it because they think they might find community or because their Christian peers seem happier?] Well, any of that would go along with the mathematics. Say your parents were immigrants from East India and you have a Hindu background. It's not necessarily that your Christian friends are happier, but activities are going to be more available -- summer camps, friends going on a retreat. And so it's not like Christians are always smiling, it's that there are just so many opportunities to get involved with Christianity and those opportunities connect with friendships. Let me put it another way -- if you're a minority religion, especially one that isn't super well-organized, it's just harder to construct a whole life that the religion makes sense in. There are two basic options when you're a minority religion. One is to construct an isolated subculture or counterculture that you can center your whole life on -- so you would have to be like the Amish, or Orthodox Jews in New York. You'd have to be part of an encapsulated community. But most people can't or don't do that and so that means that they are constantly exposed to values and practices of cultures different from their religion, and then that presents a challenge that they have to continually evaluate -- they have to continually decide how to respond. Do they resist? How? Do they acculturate? It could also be, and I don't have data on this, but most teens just want to fit in. They want acceptance, and so with teens of minority faiths, who have to deal with the ubiquity of Christianity, and have these cultural markers that are basically like neon signs that say, I'm different, I'm weird, many of them don't want that. [There are so many accessories for Christian kids -- Christian rock, T-shirts with cheeky slogans, niche-marketed Bibles. Nearly half of the teens you surveyed said they'd worn jewelry or clothing with a religious message and nearly half listened to religious music.
Re: Permission Slips Re: blah, blah, blah . . .
Robert J. Chassell wrote: As far as I can see, in periods during which nothing much changed during a generation, many could survive by accepting what they were told. On 6 May 2005, Julia Thompson asked How often did things change significantly over the course of a generation? In the paleolithic? Sometimes frequently, sometimes not. That is the problem. As far as I know, during glacial periods things were often predictable. It was warm in the tropics, cold by the edge of the glaciers. Weather was predictable, since storm systems tended to move along paths between the hot and the cold, and the space between the two was not so wide as now. So you would have two bad storms every seven days. (Incidentally, along with the convenient phasing of the moon and of women's menses, this suggests to me that a `week' become seven days. Besides, seven is prime and seven objects but not fourteen can be perceived by most adults ... ) On the other hand, during interglacial periods, the area over which storm systems move becomes less constrained. Weather becomes less predictable. How many iterations would there have to be for listening *critically* to authorities to be selected for to the point where over half the population had the traits for the tendency to do so? I don't know whether `half the population' needs to gain these traits or whether a small portion (say one in 12 or one in 100) is all that is necessary. The key is that people not kill such minorities when nothing happens for 50 or 100 generations. Otherwise their traits will be lost. Of course, during predictable eras, people can laugh at the critical thinkers: as in, `There he goes again, suggesting that this next storm might be light. Hah! As grandma said, it will be as bad as the last one.' In any event, listening critically is a complex behavior. Consequently, it is likely to require a bunch of genes to make it possible. Perhaps the behavior is only expressed within an appropriate culture and people in other cultures die. This would mean that those with the capability would be invisible much of the time, so the others do not need to avoid killing them. This is a `one the one hand, on the other hand' response ... Put another way, perhaps a more useful question is Which contemporary societies provide enough support to those who listen critically to authorities and which adapt well because of their critical comments? Did the US government adapt well enough -- that is to say, learn and act differently -- to changing conditions during the latter 1930s and early 1940s? Did it adapt well enough during the latter 1980s and early 1990s? Which societies are adapting well enough to the period since 2001? -- Robert J. Chassell [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.rattlesnake.com http://www.teak.cc ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
Erik Reuter's numbers and conclusions are very interesting. I had not realized how many different variables showed the difference. (Pretty obviously, the variables only measure certain things. In his book, `The Shadow of the Sun', Ryszard Kapuciski speaks of a categorical measure: For the people of those neighborhoods, independence means being free to walk at will the main streets of this city of more than a hundred thousand ... (This is similar to Deborah Harrell saying ... morality has evolved as larger and larger groups are acknowledged to be People (family - village/tribe - city-state/tribal confederation - nation - race - gender -- non-humans?) ... (It is a change in what the category includes.) But having noted that the variables only measure certain things, it is amazing what they do say. Based on them, what are the key three political policies an administration should follow? I see * Public investment in public infrastructure such as bridges and research labs whose results, if any, become public. * Public investment in certain kinds of private infrastructure, such as higher education for individuals. * Public investment in actions that prevent `gaming the system'. What about frugality? Is that as important? More important? -- Robert J. Chassell [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.rattlesnake.com http://www.teak.cc ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
* Robert J. Chassell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I see * Public investment in public infrastructure such as bridges and research labs whose results, if any, become public. * Public investment in certain kinds of private infrastructure, such as higher education for individuals. * Public investment in actions that prevent `gaming the system'. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/NRIPDC96/112 Note that the investment statistic I used includes private investment (to economists, investment means spending money on durable goods and longer-term projects that are expected to create improvements in the future, as opposed to the way the term is used by people managing savings portfolios). I expect the NIPA guide could tell you exactly what is included, if you are interested in finding more details: http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/an/nipaguid.pdf -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: A very good NYT article on intelligent design
In a message dated 5/2/2005 7:46:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A goof point Warren, but you forget that genes aren't the *only* unit of inheritance- culture is also inherited. Sawyer could have just as well postulated a race of hominids, humanoid pre-cursors, which are poised just on the critical cusp of breaking into counsciousness, and only need an inspiration or model to make the leap themselves. One of them would be bound to 'get' counsciousness eventually, and by imitation it would spread vertically and horizontally (and would exterminate any groups that didn't 'get' it.) This substitute model has the nice side effect that the character expouding it could easily segue into a learned disquisition on historical 'wolflings' as an example- humans brought up with no counscious human model from which to 'get' it. Except that cultural inheritence requires a brain capable of interacting with other brains in the society in a manner that generates culture. Culture does exist in other species in particular chimps where means of getting food may vary based on one member of the tribe via luck or intelligence ( a chimp einstein or at least a chimp henry ford) comes up with a new trick. But that is as far as it goes. In order for consciousness to be a cultural phenomena hominds must already have very complex brains. And brains don't come cheap. they are expensive and time consuming to build and maintain. having a big brain means having a big head. this requires changes in gestational strategies (humans are born very prematurely. Based on a variety of comparitive tests human gestation should probably be about 15 months. But the head would be too big to deliver so natural selection has favored early delivery of an infant that is completely incapable of even the most rudimentary tasks of independent life. By comparison at birth a chimp has the same degree of maturation as a one year child. So there has to be very strong evolutionary pressure (i.e a competitive advantage) for big brains capable of consciousness to evolve. The most likely advantage is that cognition communication and memory even in their most primative forms made hominids more successful. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
On 5/8/05, Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Robert J. Chassell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I see * Public investment in public infrastructure such as bridges and research labs whose results, if any, become public. * Public investment in certain kinds of private infrastructure, such as higher education for individuals. * Public investment in actions that prevent `gaming the system'. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/NRIPDC96/112 Note that the investment statistic I used includes private investment (to economists, investment means spending money on durable goods and longer-term projects that are expected to create improvements in the future, as opposed to the way the term is used by people managing savings portfolios). I expect the NIPA guide could tell you exactly what is included, if you are interested in finding more details: http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/an/nipaguid.pdf There are a number of economists who point out that insurance investments - military, police, insurance itself, have very low economic value compared to public improvements. Above a certain basic level of protection more money doesn't create or defend productive capital. What is the minimum amount needed is the heart of politics. Gary Denton Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Political Futurists and Radical and Utopian SF writers
I had the just another right. On 5/8/05, Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 01:41 PM Saturday 5/7/2005, Julia Thompson wrote: Robert Seeberger wrote: Julia Thompson wrote: Robert Seeberger wrote: I generally think of him as JARCHAL, which pretty much defines the majority of very vocal Libertarians that I have known. JARCHAL? Can you expand? I thought it obviousG It might be to someone who's been averaging significantly more than 5 hours' sleep a night for the past 6 nights No, it wasn't. xponent Just Another Republican Calling Himself A Libertarian Maru rob Thanks! That Makes Two Of Us Maru -- Ronn! :) -- Gary Denton Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Other Christianity (was Re: Babble theory, and comments)
On 4/7/05, Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 21:04:09 -0700 (PDT), Gautam Mukunda wrote --- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you saying that Warren been trying to prevent democracy in Iraq? Functionally, yes. What does that mean? It means that there wasn't a third option between going to war to remove Hussein and leaving him in power. It didn't exist. No one proposed one that was even vaguely plausible. You could choose one or the other. False, this is recent history you are talking about. The alternative plan was for aggressive weapons inspections backed by the use of force. Somehow the UN didn't think Bush and Powell had anything credible showing there were WMDs in Iraq. I had recently reviewed all the arguments Bush and his White House press secretary used leading up to the war. WMDs was almost the only one. In Gulf War 1 Bush the fist did not bring up Saddam using gas. The time he used it was too close and they didn't want to remind people that the US had provided the helicopters, the raw materials, the training for Iraqi scientists, the satellite photos, and Rumsfeld shook Saddam's hand afterwards and said don't worry about this - we'll ignore hose damn liberals in the UN and Congress. -- Gary Denton Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Other Christianity (was Re: Babble theory, and comments)
On 4/6/05, Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bottom line, you denegate rich white liberals for no particular reason other than to create your usual demons. Bob, what is it about you that makes you _unable_ to credit people who disagree with you about honest motives? I mean, really, this is why I'm so reluctant to discuss things with you. I denigrate the rich white liberals who made this decision because they're the people who, consistently, make self-flattering decisions that (in this case) have led to hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of deaths. You're a rich white liberal. I don't denigrate you. The myth that humantiarians are leading the fight against the banning of DDT beacuase it has led to millions of poor people duying is a well-funded campaign by (surprise!) the large pesticide companies. A very well-funded campaign for a number of years. http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1998Q4/panic.html In 1997, ACSH released a special report in pamphlet form titled Facts Versus Fears: A Review of the 20 Greatest Unfounded Health Scares of Recent Times. Compiled by ACSH Director of Media and Development Adam Lieberman, the list included DDT, cyclamates, the hormone DES in beef, the chemical contamination of Love Canal, dioxin at Times Beach, and asbestos. Lieberman's study devoted approximately one and a half pages to each scare, including footnotes (which draw heavily on Whelan's writings). A mass mailing of Facts Versus Fears to journalists generated countless uncritical stories in which reporters, ranging from Jane Brody of the *New York Times *to William Wineke of the *Wisconsin State Journal, *repeated Lieberman's conclusions or simply quoted them verbatim. Paul Harvey described it as meticulously documented. An editorial in the *Kentucky Enquirer *used arguments from Facts Versus Fears to conclude that we have plenty of reason and experience to be wary of overreacting to issues driven by ideology rather than sound science. Not long after its publication, however, Lieberman himself underwent a political change of heart and published a confessional in *Mother Jones *in which he admitted that his own work was motivated primarily by conservative ideology. Morever, he noted, ACSH itself was engaged in fear-mongering. I was placed in the position of suggesting that the future of society was in jeopardy if consumers rejected the use of the fat substitute olestra or the milk-producing growth hormone rBST in cows, he stated. I can get a cup of DDT from an environmental laboratory near here - wanna drink? Want to feed it to the neighborhood birds? Noisy critters anyway. That whole Mother Nature stuff is just so gay. -- Gary Denton Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Paedophiles turning Christian
On 5/8/05, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7 May 2005, at 11:45 pm, Warren Ockrassa wrote: On May 7, 2005, at 2:48 AM, William T Goodall wrote: http://tinyurl.com/7lsm2 Children are at growing risk from paedophiles who convert to Christianity in prison and join a church on their release, a government-backed charity said yesterday. That's nothing. The overwhelming majority of child molesters are avowed heterosexuals. So if you're going to start *really* protecting children, it's obvious we need -- first and foremost -- to make sure *every* teacher is gay, not just the girls' gym coaches. With only 21% of Britons in general regularly attending religious services but 75% of convicted child abusers doing so the heightened risk to children exposed to religious activities is obvious. Clearly nobody under the age of eighteen should be associated with religion. Think of the children! -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. - Bjarne Stroustrup ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l Long been known that there is a greater belief in God and Hell in jails and prisons than the population as a whole. Simarly the SM scene has a higher proportion of the more conservative religiously and politically. Interesting stuff statistics. -- Gary Denton Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Other Christianity (was Re: Babble theory, and comments)
On Sun, 8 May 2005 10:46:57 -0500, Gary Denton wrote In the days that have passed since we all talked about our options with regard to Iraq, I realized that I left out one of the most important ones. And since Gary brought it up again, I'll take this opportunity. The idea that we must restrict ourselves to options that have a provable liklihood of success is faithless and not borne out by history. I'll offer a very simple explanation, by way of the same illustrations I used before. What if Ghandi had waited for a practical plan that was likely to succeed? Nelson Mandela? Abolitionists in the United States? And countless others who did what they believe was right, without any idea or good reason to hope for success, whose movements and actions succeeded anyway? To seek peaceful change is almost always impractical. It seems as though when the stakes are highest, we are least likely to be able to use logic to prove how to maximize the liklihood of a desired outcome. But this is the essence of faith and hope, and history is full of stories of people who did great things with a big vision and small actions, rather than big plans that try to control the outcome. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Honoring soldiers on Mothers Day
I just read a bit about people honoring soldiers today because it is Mothers' Day. How about if we honor them by not cutting the VA budget by $2.4 billion? How about if we honor them by not putting them into battle shorthanded with an unclear mission? How about honoring them by keeping our promises for benefits (only 16 percent collect GI Bill education benefits even though twice that many have money deducted from their tiny paychecks for that purpose -- the rest lose that money). And more... But now, some words from Julia Ward Howe's Mother's Day proclamation in 1870. Show of hands, please -- how many of us realized that Mother's Day is an anti-war holiday, inspired by the carnage of the Civil War (or War Between the States, if you prefer). --- Arise, then, women of this day! Arise all women who have hearts, whether your baptism be that of water or of fears! Say firmly: We will not have great questions decided by irrelevant agencies, Our husbands shall not come to us reeking with carnage, for caresses and applause. Our sons shall not be taken from us to unlearn all that we have been able to teach them of charity, mercy, and patience. We women of one country will be too tender of those of another country to allow our sons to be trained to injure theirs. From the bosom of the devasted earth a voice goes up with our own. It says, Disarm, Disarm! The sword of murder is not the balance of justice! Blood does not wipe out dishonor nor violence indicate possession. As men have often forsaken the plow and the anvil at the summons of war, let women now leave all that may be left of home for a great and earnest day of counsel. Let them meet first, as women, to bewail and commemorate the dead. Let them then solemnly take counsel with each other as the means whereby the great human family can live in peace, And each bearing after her own time the sacred impress, not of Caesar, but of God. --- God bless JoEllen Canning and every other mother who has lost a son in war. Nick -- Open WebMail Project (http://openwebmail.org) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
* Gary Denton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: There are a number of economists who point out that insurance investments - military, police, insurance itself, have very low economic value compared to public improvements. Above a certain basic level of protection more money doesn't create or defend productive capital. What is the minimum amount needed is the heart of politics. Gary likes to pretend that he knows what he is talking about. But he has repeatedly made postings lie this that show he doesn't have any real understanding -- apparently he just likes to string together terms that he has seen or heard somewhere, like Eliza. Incidentally, if the numbers I posted had demonstrated any flaws in his partisan liberal politics, then he would not have agreed with the methodology at all. The methodology is only good if it produces a message that can fit with his party line. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
On May 8, 2005, at 10:10 AM, Erik Reuter wrote: * Gary Denton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: There are a number of economists who point out that insurance investments - military, police, insurance itself, have very low economic value compared to public improvements. Above a certain basic level of protection more money doesn't create or defend productive capital. What is the minimum amount needed is the heart of politics. Gary likes to pretend that he knows what he is talking about. But he has repeatedly made postings lie this that show he doesn't have any real understanding -- apparently he just likes to string together terms that he has seen or heard somewhere, like Eliza. Wow. For a while there Erik seemed almost civil -- I figured the meds must have been kicking in. Hey, Erik -- ask your doc to up the prescription again. The effects have worn off. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
And then, of course, we have Warren, who apparently values political correctness, false politeness, and his own emotions over anything real and useful like knowledge, clear thinking, or taking time to learn about a subject before spouting an opinion on it. One of the few Brin-L posters with a signal-to-noise ratio lower than Gary's. At least Nick and JDG are funny. Warren's just plain boring. [Knock yourself out, Warren...with any luck, you might be able to entertain one or two people...but not me, I've got better things to do than to read another post from Warren] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Paedophiles turning Christian
On 8 May 2005, at 5:10 pm, Gary Denton wrote: On 5/8/05, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With only 21% of Britons in general regularly attending religious services but 75% of convicted child abusers doing so the heightened risk to children exposed to religious activities is obvious. Clearly nobody under the age of eighteen should be associated with religion. Think of the children! Long been known that there is a greater belief in God and Hell in jails and prisons than the population as a whole. Birds of a feather flock together eh? Naturally the evil poison of religion would appeal more to murderers and rapists than to decent folk. Simarly the SM scene has a higher proportion of the more conservative religiously and politically. Interesting stuff statistics. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will run out of things they can do with UNIX. - Ken Olsen, President of DEC, 1984. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
At 12:10 PM Sunday 5/8/2005, Erik Reuter wrote: Gary likes to pretend that he knows what he is talking about. But he has repeatedly made postings lie this that show he doesn't have any real understanding -- apparently he just likes to string together terms that he has seen or heard somewhere, like Eliza. Sometimes I suspect the existence of an Eliza-like program called Don Rickles which generates a random selection of insults in response to any post that almost sound as if they are coming from a human being . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
On May 8, 2005, at 10:41 AM, Erik Reuter wrote: And then, of course, we have Warren, who apparently values political correctness, false politeness, and his own emotions over anything real and useful like knowledge, clear thinking, or taking time to learn about a subject before spouting an opinion on it. At least I'm not a hypocrite, Erik, like you are. Nor, for that matter, am I an asshole. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
* Ronn!Blankenship ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Sometimes I suspect the existence of an Eliza-like program called Don Rickles which generates a random selection of insults in response to any post that almost sound as if they are coming from a human being . . . Maybe the same-tired-old-jokes program and the random-insult program could have a conversation and lower the S/N of this thread even further ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
At 01:21 PM Sunday 5/8/2005, Erik Reuter wrote: * Ronn!Blankenship ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Sometimes I suspect the existence of an Eliza-like program called Don Rickles which generates a random selection of insults in response to any post that almost sound as if they are coming from a human being . . . Maybe the same-tired-old-jokes program and the random-insult program could have a conversation and lower the S/N of this thread even further Actually, since it is Sunday and I feel in the mood for confessions, I wrote such a program over thirty years ago. Several versions, in fact. None of them were entitled Don Rickles, though. I Doubt Anyone Here Is Surprised By This Admission Maru -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Democrats Voted Out of Baptist Church
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storyu=/ap/20050507/ap_on_re_us/church_politics_4 Some in Pastor Chan Chandler's flock wish he had a little less zeal for the GOP. Members of the small East Waynesville Baptist Church say Chandler led an effort to kick out congregants who didn't support President Bush. Nine members were voted out at a Monday church meeting in this mountain town, about 120 miles west of Charlotte. He's the kind of pastor who says do it my way or get out, said Selma Morris, the former church treasurer. He's real negative all the time. Chandler didn't return a message left by The Associated Press at his home Friday, and several calls to the church went unanswered. He told WLOS-TV in Asheville that the actions were not politically motivated. The station also reported that 40 others in the 400-member congregation resigned in protest after Monday's vote. During the presidential election last year, Chandler told the congregation that anyone who planned to vote for Democratic Sen. John Kerry should either leave the church or repent, said former member Lorene Sutton. Some church members left after Chandler made his ultimatum in October, Morris said. George Bullard, associate executive director-treasurer for Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, told the Asheville Citizen-Times that a pastor has every right to disallow memberships if a church's bylaws allow for the pastor to establish criteria for membership. Membership is a local church issue, he said. It is not something the state convention would enter into. He added that the nine members were not legally terminated because Monday's meeting was supposed to be a deacons meeting, not a business meeting. They have a lawyer looking into the situation, he said. The head of the North Carolina Democratic Party sharply criticized the pastor Friday, saying Chandler jeopardized his church's tax-free status by openly supporting a candidate for president. If these reports are true, this minister is not only acting extremely inappropriately by injecting partisan politics into a house of worship, but he is also potentially breaking the law, Chairman Jerry Meek said. Doris Wilson, one of Chandler's neighbors and a member of First Baptist Church in Waynesville, said God doesn't play partisan politics. I hate to see the church suffer like that, she said. God doesn't care whether you're a Republican or a Democrat. It just hurts to see that going on. xponent Ruling Party Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
Ronn Blankenship wrote: Sometimes I suspect the existence of an Eliza-like program called Don Rickles which generates a random selection of insults in response to any post that almost sound as if they are coming from a human being . . . Good idea! Create a program that responds to a message with insults. We could even escalate it, like level 1 insults [those that the victim would have to read twice to get it] going down to level 10 [F**K YOU B**TARD MOTHERF**KER!!!] Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
At 02:36 PM Sunday 5/8/2005, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Ronn Blankenship wrote: Sometimes I suspect the existence of an Eliza-like program called Don Rickles which generates a random selection of insults in response to any post that almost sound as if they are coming from a human being . . . Good idea! Create a program that responds to a message with insults. We could even escalate it, like level 1 insults [those that the victim would have to read twice to get it] Or just the frustration that an unsuspecting victim (I mean user) experienced when frex he tried to log on normally by typing LOGON and the system replied ... THE FIRE BEER IN MY HAND GIRL BY MY SIDE I'M SET FOR THE NIGHT. (Any other command elicited a similarly useless response.) going down to level 10 [F**K YOU B**TARD MOTHERF**KER!!!] Actually, what it did when the unsuspecting user got trapped into the program (you didn't think it was easy to get out, did you?) and started typing Level 10 insults was to inform him that swearing was not permitted and that it was going to inform the system operator . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Democrats Voted Out of Baptist Church
On Sun, 8 May 2005 14:18:22 -0500, Robert G. Seeberger wrote http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storyu=/ap/20050507/ap_on_re_us/church_politics_4 Some in Pastor Chan Chandler's flock wish he had a little less zeal for the GOP. Members of the small East Waynesville Baptist Church say Chandler led an effort to kick out congregants who didn't support President Bush. Nine members were voted out at a Monday church meeting in this mountain town, about 120 miles west of Charlotte. And only a few miles from my parents... No wonder they feel a bit lonely there in North Carolina, and not very interested in church. They'd have been voted out of that one. If my political beliefs and my faith never tug me in differing directions, then I either don't really have any political beliefs or I don't really have an religious beliefs, I suspect. Both of these -- politics and religion -- like nations, are inventions of human beings, I believe. Worshipping human inventions seems to have always been a path to trouble. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Democrats Voted Out of Baptist Church
At 03:44 PM Sunday 5/8/2005, Nick Arnett wrote: Both of these -- politics and religion -- like nations, are inventions of human beings, I believe. So you don't believe there's a God? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
Hmmm ... runs Eliza ... lines from Ronn!Blankenship and Erik Reuter ... Here is the result: Sometimes I suspect the existence of an Eliza-like program called Don Rickles which generates a random selection of insults ... Eliza: Why do you say that? ... lower the S/N of this thread even further ... Eliza: Is it because of your life that you are going through all this? -- Robert J. Chassell [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.rattlesnake.com http://www.teak.cc ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Democrats Voted Out of Baptist Church
On May 8, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 03:44 PM Sunday 5/8/2005, Nick Arnett wrote: Both of these -- politics and religion -- like nations, are inventions of human beings, I believe. So you don't believe there's a God? That doesn't necessarily follow. Religion might be a bit like a courtship dance -- or maybe like a funeral ceremony -- something ritualized to allow one to get a handle on something that seems ungraspable, unknowable, or at the very least baffling. As such separating religion from the concept of deity doesn't necessarily kill the god. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
At 04:22 PM Sunday 5/8/2005, Robert J. Chassell wrote: Hmmm ... runs Eliza ... lines from Ronn!Blankenship and Erik Reuter ... Here is the result: Sometimes I suspect the existence of an Eliza-like program called Don Rickles which generates a random selection of insults ... Eliza: Why do you say that? ... lower the S/N of this thread even further ... Eliza: Is it because of your life that you are going through all this? [NameWithheld]: It is because you are afflicted by the virus of religion that you say that. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Earth has developed a slight eccentricity in its orbit...
Robert Seeberger wrote: Warren Ockrassa wrote: That doesn't change my opinion of the movie. It was bad. Bad, bad, bad. Still have not seen it myself. But you are the only person I've run across so far who dislikes it greatly. Oh, bad doesn't begin to describe it. I'm a fan of all things DNA, but my wife is a complete novice - never read the books, never seen the TV shows. And both of us hated it. It is confusing as hell for newbies - there are references to things from the book without any sort of explanation, and there are punch lines without setup, and jokes that have had the punch line removed. Mos Def is just wrong as Prefect, if only because at most times he is talking away from the camera/mic and can't be heard. For the fans, who understand what is going on, it is bewildering to see so much important stuff gone, and so much extraneous stuff tacked in with no benefit. It's just not funny, and the story doesn't hold up without the humour. 2 colleagues at work have also seen it, again one a fan and one a newbie, and both hated it. I had low expectations, but it was worse than I imagined. Cheers Russell C. --- This email (including any attachments) is confidential and copyright. The School makes no warranty about the content of this email. Unless expressly stated, this email does not bind the School and does not necessarily constitute the opinion of the School. If you have received this email in error, please delete it and notify the sender. --- GWAVAsig ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
* Ronn!Blankenship ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: At 04:22 PM Sunday 5/8/2005, Robert J. Chassell wrote: Eliza: Is it because of your life that you are going through all this? [NameWithheld]: It is because you are afflicted by the virus of religion that you say that. Is it because of your afterlife that you are going through all this? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
At 06:53 PM Sunday 5/8/2005, Erik Reuter wrote: * Ronn!Blankenship ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: At 04:22 PM Sunday 5/8/2005, Robert J. Chassell wrote: Eliza: Is it because of your life that you are going through all this? [NameWithheld]: It is because you are afflicted by the virus of religion that you say that. Is it because of your afterlife that you are going through all this? Is it your hypothesis that time is running in a reverse direction? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
* Ronn!Blankenship ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: At 06:53 PM Sunday 5/8/2005, Erik Reuter wrote: * Ronn!Blankenship ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: At 04:22 PM Sunday 5/8/2005, Robert J. Chassell wrote: Eliza: Is it because of your life that you are going through all this? [NameWithheld]: It is because you are afflicted by the virus of religion that you say that. Is it because of your afterlife that you are going through all this? Is it your hypothesis that time is running in a reverse direction? No. Have you forgotten your storybook? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Earth has developed a slight eccentricity in its orbit...
On 9 May 2005, at 12:31 am, Russell Chapman wrote: Robert Seeberger wrote: Warren Ockrassa wrote: That doesn't change my opinion of the movie. It was bad. Bad, bad, bad. Still have not seen it myself. But you are the only person I've run across so far who dislikes it greatly. Oh, bad doesn't begin to describe it. I'm a fan of all things DNA, but my wife is a complete novice - never read the books, never seen the TV shows. snip I had low expectations, but it was worse than I imagined. I think I'll save myself £5 and not bother seeing this then. What else is coming out in May... The Jacket Ong Bak Palindromes. And Sin City in June! -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible. - Bertrand Russell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: US riches, actual and hypothetical
Robert J. Chassell wrote: Hmmm ... runs Eliza ... lines from Ronn!Blankenship and Erik Reuter ... Long time ago, I wrote an Eliza-like program, but it was _much_ more agressive and politically incorrect. Here is the result: Sometimes I suspect the existence of an Eliza-like program called Don Rickles which generates a random selection of insults ... Eliza: Why do you say that? My program: your opinion about Sometimes you suspect the existence of an Eliza - like program is gay stuff ... lower the S/N of this thread even further ... Eliza: Is it because of your life that you are going through all this? I'd rather not write my program's reply to that O:-) Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Earth has developed a slight eccentricity in its orbit...
On 5/8/05, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had low expectations, but it was worse than I imagined. I think I'll save myself £5 and not bother seeing this then. What else is coming out in May... The Jacket Ong Bak Palindromes. And Sin City in June! -- William T Goodall Speaking as someone who has seen it already (and was not a fanboy prior to seeing it), Sin City is most definitely worth watching, riveting and intense, as long as you are prepared for the violence and etc. ~Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Other Christianity (was Re: Babble theory, and comments)
--- Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can get a cup of DDT from an environmental laboratory near here - wanna drink? Want to feed it to the neighborhood birds? Noisy critters anyway. That whole Mother Nature stuff is just so gay. -- Gary Denton And that whole knowing even a tiny thing about what you're talking about is so overrated. Why on earth would any pesticide company bother to fund a campaign in favor of DDT? They wouldn't make money off of DDT. It's an old chemical. Banning DDT was a small, but non-trivial, windfall for the pesticide companies. DDT is currently being manufactured by a single factory in India and it's _still_ a dirt-cheap chemical. I wouldn't terribly want to drink DDT. But I'd probably be safer drinking it than I would the other chemicals that we use for insect suppression _instead_ of DDT. But God forbid you should actually conduct an intelligent risk analysis instead of just parroting the leftist line. Out of curiousity, Gary, is there _any_ issue where I couldn't predict your position with flawless accuracy by moving about three standard deviations to the left of the American mainstream? Even one? Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Earth has developed a slight eccentricity in its orbit...
Maru Dubshinki wrote: Speaking as someone who has seen it already (and was not a fanboy prior to seeing it), Sin City is most definitely worth watching, riveting and intense, as long as you are prepared for the violence and etc. Jessica Alba as a stripper? Does she strip or not? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Earth has developed a slight eccentricity in its orbit...
In a message dated 5/8/2005 8:55:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Speaking as someone who has seen it already (and was not a fanboy prior to seeing it), Sin City is most definitely worth watching, riveting and intense, as long as you are prepared for the violence and etc. Jessica Alba as a stripper? Does she strip or not? Not down to the naughty bits ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Earth has developed a slight eccentricity in its orbit...
On 5/8/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 5/8/2005 8:55:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Speaking as someone who has seen it already (and was not a fanboy prior to seeing it), Sin City is most definitely worth watching, riveting and intense, as long as you are prepared for the violence and etc. Jessica Alba as a stripper? Does she strip or not? Not down to the naughty bits Needless to say, the movie is worth watching. :) ~Maru Hubba hubba! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: A very good NYT article on intelligent design
On 5/8/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 5/2/2005 7:46:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A goof point Warren, but you forget that genes aren't the *only* unit of inheritance- culture is also inherited. Sawyer could have just as well postulated a race of hominids, humanoid pre-cursors, which are poised just on the critical cusp of breaking into counsciousness, and only need an inspiration or model to make the leap themselves. One of them would be bound to 'get' counsciousness eventually, and by imitation it would spread vertically and horizontally (and would exterminate any groups that didn't 'get' it.) This substitute model has the nice side effect that the character expouding it could easily segue into a learned disquisition on historical 'wolflings' as an example- humans brought up with no counscious human model from which to 'get' it. Except that cultural inheritence requires a brain capable of interacting with other brains in the society in a manner that generates culture. Culture does exist in other species in particular chimps where means of getting food may vary based on one member of the tribe via luck or intelligence ( a chimp einstein or at least a chimp henry ford) comes up with a new trick. But that is as far as it goes. In order for consciousness to be a cultural phenomena hominds must already have very complex brains. And brains don't come cheap. they are expensive and time consuming to build and maintain. having a big brain means having a big head. this requires changes in gestational strategies (humans are born very prematurely. Based on a variety of comparitive tests human gestation should probably be about 15 months. But the head would be too big to deliver so natural selection has favored early delivery of an infant that is completely incapable of even the most rudimentary tasks of independent life. By comparison at birth a chimp has the same degree of maturation as a one year child. So there has to be very strong evolutionary pressure (i.e a competitive advantage) for big brains capable of consciousness to evolve. The most likely advantage is that cognition communication and memory even in their most primative forms made hominids more successful. I'm afraid I don't see your post's relevance- I suggested that counsciousness coulda been a random event, which would enable itself to be culturally passed down (and really enabling cultural inheritance in the first place, instead of depending on genes.). ~Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: A very good NYT article on intelligent design
On May 8, 2005, at 6:47 PM, Maru Dubshinki wrote: I'm afraid I don't see your post's relevance- I suggested that counsciousness coulda been a random event, which would enable itself to be culturally passed down (and really enabling cultural inheritance in the first place, instead of depending on genes.). But it still won't work, because culture is fragile. Look at all the ancient languages we can't translate today. Cultures lost entirely. What's the mechanism by which consciousness is culturally transmitted? One doesn't practice it like a language, does one? -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Earth has developed a slight eccentricity in its orbit...
On 5/8/05, Russell Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert Seeberger wrote: Warren Ockrassa wrote: That doesn't change my opinion of the movie. It was bad. Bad, bad, bad. Still have not seen it myself. But you are the only person I've run across so far who dislikes it greatly. Oh, bad doesn't begin to describe it. I'm a fan of all things DNA, but my wife is a complete novice - never read the books, never seen the TV shows. And both of us hated it. delurking I just got back from seeing it. I thought it was OK; not great, but not terrible either. Disappointing in that I think it could have been better, or at least funnier than it was (In particular, the guide entries didn't strike me as funny as I remember them from the books or the tv show). I would certainly have filmed things differently and explained things better. But at the same time I don't think it's an easy book to bring to the screen. I was a fan of the books and enjoyed the cheesy BBC tv series (I never heard/read the radio series version) and I wasn't appalled by the changes, but it's been a very long time since I read the books, and I'm not a hardcore fan. I admit that if they had made the same scale of changes to the LOTR movies as to THGTTG, I'd probably have been outraged even if they had been cooked up by Tolkien himself. BTW, did anyone else pick up on the Zaphod/George-W-Bush thing? -Bryon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
